Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 527: An IU basketball offseason check-in with Ryan Phillips

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POTB 527: An IU basketball offseason check-in with Ryan Phillips · Podcast on the Brink

0:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of podcast on the Brink.
0:20
Speaker 1: It's Friday, May night, starting to settle in a little
0:24
Speaker 1: bit to the IU basketball off season. Still some news
0:28
Speaker 1: here and there. Had a commitment a couple of weeks
0:30
Speaker 1: ago from Josh Harris, and some recruiting news this week
0:35
Speaker 1: in terms of offers, but the roster getting pretty much
0:39
Speaker 1: set at this point, could be a couple additions still
0:42
Speaker 1: to come. It's funny I was looking back in the archives.
0:45
Speaker 1: Today's guest, Ryan Phillips of The Assembly Call and Sports Illustrated,
0:50
Speaker 1: was on the show exactly. I think it was three
0:53
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty four days ago to today. So we'll
0:56
Speaker 1: get to Ryan in just a second. But as always,
1:00
Speaker 1: this week, this episode of Podcasts in the Brink brought
1:02
Speaker 1: to you our friends at Visit Bloomington. Just because the
1:05
Speaker 1: basketball season is over doesn't mean the fun stops. Spring
1:08
Speaker 1: is the perfect time to explore everything Bloomington has to offer.
1:11
Speaker 1: Pack the trails at Griffy Lake Nature Preserve and then
1:14
Speaker 1: refuel with local flavors on tap at Upland Brewing Company.
1:17
Speaker 1: And don't forget about the many music festivals coming to
1:19
Speaker 1: Bloomington this spring. Whether you're into outdoor adventures, food, or
1:23
Speaker 1: just relaxing in a vibrant college town. Visit Bloomington's got
1:26
Speaker 1: you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at visit
1:29
Speaker 1: Bloomington dot com. And I think it's right Now is
1:31
Speaker 1: the perfect time to visit Bloomington because graduations this weekend,
1:35
Speaker 1: all the moving trucks are moving out. There's gonna be
1:37
Speaker 1: plenty of space to move around on Kirkwood and enjoy
1:42
Speaker 1: all the different things in Bloomington, Ryan, welcome back to
1:44
Speaker 1: the show. Before we get started, I need your go
1:48
Speaker 1: to spots in Bloomington.
1:50
Speaker 2: Well, I just had a revelation. Every time I come
1:53
Speaker 2: into town, the first place they go to dinner is
1:54
Speaker 2: Uptown Cafe. I love going to Upstairs and I like
1:58
Speaker 2: upland so it's everything with an up in Bloomington apparently
2:01
Speaker 2: are my go to spots. But yeah, i'd love I
2:04
Speaker 2: love getting a classic Nicksburger as well. But yeah, I
2:06
Speaker 2: mean I brought my girlfriend for the first time this
2:09
Speaker 2: past year in February and we hit everything. Man, there's
2:15
Speaker 2: so many great spots, and it really is just so
2:17
Speaker 2: much fun going back and busy in the town. Probably
2:19
Speaker 2: like to the degree that like I didn't appreciate it
2:22
Speaker 2: when I lived there as much to now when I
2:24
Speaker 2: get back, because there's always, you know, that row of
2:26
Speaker 2: spots I need to hit. So yeah, Uptown is always
2:29
Speaker 2: my first dinner though. I love that place.
2:31
Speaker 1: So I mentioned it's been three hundred and sixty four
2:34
Speaker 1: days since you've been on the show. A lot has happened.
2:36
Speaker 1: I mean, we have this conversation last year where we
2:38
Speaker 1: were there was a lot of excitement. I don't say
2:41
Speaker 1: I say we were excited, but there was a lot
2:42
Speaker 1: of excitement among the fan base as to what would
2:47
Speaker 1: had happened in the portal, the roster that they assembled.
2:50
Speaker 1: We all know how that all played out. I don't
2:52
Speaker 1: want to rehash it again, but please don't this now
2:57
Speaker 1: it kind of feels like, I don't want to say,
2:59
Speaker 1: in the same spot. But there's a lot of optimism
3:01
Speaker 1: with a new era for IYU basketball, this transfer portal hall.
3:05
Speaker 1: What have you made of just kind of this whole
3:08
Speaker 1: transition process since you know it was in March eighteenth,
3:11
Speaker 1: Derees was hired March nineteenth, he's introduced, and I think
3:14
Speaker 1: we had a run of twenty seven days in April
3:18
Speaker 1: with ten commitments, which is crazy to think about. I
3:22
Speaker 1: was living the other day. Indiana has the most transfer
3:24
Speaker 1: portal commitments of any Big ten program, somewhat out of necessity.
3:28
Speaker 1: But there were other programs, yeah, other programs with coaching
3:32
Speaker 1: changes too, But I'm just curious, like big picture, what
3:36
Speaker 1: you've made of this period and kind of where Indiana
3:39
Speaker 1: sits as of today.
3:40
Speaker 2: Well, one thing I've really respected about the staff is
3:43
Speaker 2: there have not been many leaks, you know. I mean,
3:45
Speaker 2: there's been kind of like they're optimistic about maybe landing
3:48
Speaker 2: this guy or something, but there hasn't been a lot
3:50
Speaker 2: of like this is going to happen and then it happens.
3:53
Speaker 2: It's kind of with recruiting, with picking up new coaches.
3:56
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of the assistant coach had coaching
4:00
Speaker 2: and coaching searches. We're pretty behind the scenes. I mean
4:02
Speaker 2: there was you know, you get a whisper about a
4:04
Speaker 2: name or two, but you didn't know who it was
4:05
Speaker 2: going to be and then it would happen. And so
4:08
Speaker 2: I respect that that they're really just going about their business.
4:12
Speaker 2: They're not trying to hype it, you know ahead of time.
4:15
Speaker 2: And with the recruiting stuff, you look at that roster
4:18
Speaker 2: and I you know, at night and day. From what
4:22
Speaker 2: we've seen the last four even the last eight years,
4:25
Speaker 2: this team's going to move like. This is going to
4:28
Speaker 2: be a very movement heavy roster. They are not going
4:31
Speaker 2: to be stationary on the perimeter with one post guy
4:35
Speaker 2: tossing it in and everybody moving around that. This is
4:37
Speaker 2: going to be a team that is cycling, that is moving,
4:39
Speaker 2: that is and it's going to be almost out of
4:42
Speaker 2: necessity because they don't have that back to the Basket Classic,
4:45
Speaker 2: back to the basket post presence, and so I think
4:48
Speaker 2: it's gonna take a little gett used to fri Indiana
4:49
Speaker 2: fans after the last you know, long stretch of basketball
4:52
Speaker 2: where we've seen that. But it's certainly a positive change
4:56
Speaker 2: in my opinion, because that's the cloud thing on offense
5:01
Speaker 2: is move people, move the ball, and that's how you
5:04
Speaker 2: have success, and that's exactly what it looks like they're
5:07
Speaker 2: going to do. And then defensively, you look at some
5:08
Speaker 2: of these guys and again a lot of them are
5:10
Speaker 2: transitioning from lower level programs to Power five and there
5:13
Speaker 2: isn't a lot of Power five experience that is coming
5:16
Speaker 2: over in the transfer portal. But you look at their pedigrees,
5:20
Speaker 2: and these guys are a lot of like great on
5:22
Speaker 2: ball defenders and are you know, put a lot of
5:25
Speaker 2: pressure on the ball. And again that's a necessity if
5:29
Speaker 2: you don't have a classic rim protector, you know, a
5:33
Speaker 2: seven foot or at a back weighting to help you out.
5:35
Speaker 2: You got to put a lot of ball pressure on
5:36
Speaker 2: and make people uncomfortable. So I love the way this is.
5:39
Speaker 2: This has worked, especially for a first year roster. It's
5:42
Speaker 2: maybe not the ideal roster in year four where you're
5:44
Speaker 2: trying to make a run for national championship, but for
5:47
Speaker 2: a first year roster, in establishing your culture and establishing
5:49
Speaker 2: what you want to do and then seeing how his
5:52
Speaker 2: teams have played in the past, this fits. And I
5:54
Speaker 2: think it's going to be a brand of basketball. It's
5:56
Speaker 2: going to be really fun to watch and hopefully a
5:59
Speaker 2: successful brand of basketball as well. But I've really liked
6:02
Speaker 2: how that the staff has gone about this. I feel
6:05
Speaker 2: like it's very working. It's not flashy. It is we're
6:09
Speaker 2: gonna get the guys we want to get, put them
6:11
Speaker 2: in a position, and we're not going to talk about it.
6:13
Speaker 2: We're just gonna do it. And at the end, once
6:15
Speaker 2: we have our stuff together. We can talk to me
6:16
Speaker 2: about it.
6:17
Speaker 1: You know.
6:17
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like there's a lot of hey, look
6:19
Speaker 2: at us, like look at the things we're doing. It's
6:22
Speaker 2: more just done, let's move to the next one.
6:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, from from covering the whole this whole
6:30
Speaker 1: period in terms of a recruiting perspective, you make a
6:33
Speaker 1: good point in terms of the lack of information. It's
6:37
Speaker 1: not that there wasn't knowledge that certain guys were on
6:40
Speaker 1: campus or visits were going to happen. There was a
6:46
Speaker 1: there was a there was a pretty strong feeling on
6:48
Speaker 1: certain guys, but it wasn't coming from the staff like
6:52
Speaker 1: maybe it was in the past. And that's no knock
6:54
Speaker 1: on the previous staff or previous staffs. But a lot
6:56
Speaker 1: of this stuff now is so agent driven with the portal,
6:59
Speaker 1: I think that's where a lot of it was coming from.
7:01
Speaker 1: But there was even an instance which kind of I
7:05
Speaker 1: don't remember this ever happening, you know, Sam, when Sam
7:08
Speaker 1: Alexis committed from Florida. I don't think anyone knew that
7:13
Speaker 1: was That was just kind of out of nowhere, been
7:15
Speaker 1: mentioned of it, mentioned of him, I think by a
7:17
Speaker 1: couple of people. But it was basically out of nowhere.
7:21
Speaker 1: I want to go back to something you said just
7:23
Speaker 1: about kind of these being lower level guys coming up
7:26
Speaker 1: a level. How much do you think that maybe limits
7:30
Speaker 1: the ceiling for what Indiana can do in year one?
7:33
Speaker 1: Or do you think now in this era of player
7:35
Speaker 1: movement and you know what we saw with some of
7:37
Speaker 1: the teams in the final four, I mean, Florida obviously
7:39
Speaker 1: had plenty of guys that moved up from the mid
7:42
Speaker 1: major level. I don't even maybe some of them were
7:44
Speaker 1: even lower major. But with this roster, do you think
7:49
Speaker 1: that puts kind of a cap on what Indiana is
7:51
Speaker 1: going to be able to accomplish next year? Because you
7:53
Speaker 1: look at it and you're right, I mean there's I mean,
7:56
Speaker 1: Tucker Dereeze played what eight games at the high major
8:00
Speaker 1: level last season? Alexis played at Florida depending on whether
8:06
Speaker 1: Luke Goodie's back, I mean, he would obviously be a
8:07
Speaker 1: guy that would have high major experience. Other than that,
8:09
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of guys who are going to be
8:12
Speaker 1: I would I would think the coaching staff wants these
8:14
Speaker 1: guys to come in and play with a tip on
8:16
Speaker 1: their shoulder and so they belong. But I'm just curious
8:17
Speaker 1: if you think it maybe limits the ceiling of this
8:20
Speaker 1: team based on just the talent level.
8:22
Speaker 2: Well more than anything, it just it's hard to project
8:25
Speaker 2: what they will look like. And I think that you know,
8:28
Speaker 2: when you have a guy going from you know, a
8:31
Speaker 2: Power five program to another Power five program, you can
8:33
Speaker 2: kind of well, while it might be acc to Big ten,
8:35
Speaker 2: so it's not exactly the same, you can kind of
8:38
Speaker 2: see what they've done and kind of product. When you're
8:41
Speaker 2: going from a lower level to higher, you you don't
8:42
Speaker 2: know what that's going to look like. Like Lamar Wilkers
8:44
Speaker 2: an amazing three point shooter. Was he facing guys who
8:47
Speaker 2: was as athletic as he's going to face in the
8:49
Speaker 2: Big Ten? Probably not, So maybe those percentages drop it.
8:53
Speaker 2: But the one thing I will say about it, and
8:54
Speaker 2: why I temper my yeah, it's, you know it limits
8:57
Speaker 2: the ceiling is that these guys all have a lot
8:59
Speaker 2: of experience. It's playing college basketball. That's the other thing
9:02
Speaker 2: they're not taking. You know, well, it's it's not all
9:05
Speaker 2: a talent projection. It's these guys have produced. And I
9:08
Speaker 2: mean you've got guys who like Connorway was the Sunbell
9:12
Speaker 2: Player of the Year. You know, and just because you
9:15
Speaker 2: haven't heard of him, doesn't it you know, like the
9:16
Speaker 2: average fan hasn't heard him, doesn't mean he hasn't had
9:18
Speaker 2: a successful I mean.
9:20
Speaker 1: They played Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament last year, So
9:22
Speaker 1: it's not like he's never been on the court with
9:24
Speaker 1: those guys and performed right exactly year.
9:27
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, exactly, And I think that that, you know,
9:31
Speaker 2: so it's not that these guys haven't had success. And
9:33
Speaker 2: I think that honestly, in college basketball for me, over
9:36
Speaker 2: the last few years, if you look at the Final four,
9:38
Speaker 2: if you look at the Elite eight, it's a lot
9:40
Speaker 2: of experienced teams, and it's or at least teams that
9:43
Speaker 2: have leaders that are very experienced. And you saw that
9:46
Speaker 2: with Duke this year that you know, in the Final four,
9:49
Speaker 2: they blew that game because they had a bunch of
9:51
Speaker 2: super talented guys who'd never been in that situation before
9:54
Speaker 2: and just made mistakes. And I think that the emphasis
9:56
Speaker 2: in college basketball of getting veteran players who can lead
10:00
Speaker 2: is change. I mean, that's changing. That is a that
10:03
Speaker 2: is something that people are realizing that if you want
10:05
Speaker 2: to win a championship, you need those guys and Indiana
10:09
Speaker 2: just got a ton of those guys. Now, again, you're right,
10:12
Speaker 2: they haven't done it at this level. We don't know
10:14
Speaker 2: what they're gonna do once they're on the Florid Assembly Hall,
10:17
Speaker 2: and that is hard to project. So I do think
10:20
Speaker 2: it lowers the ceiling a little bit, but it's not
10:24
Speaker 2: necessarily a giant negative. I don't want that to be
10:27
Speaker 2: the message here because I do think that these are
10:29
Speaker 2: guys who know how to play college basketball, who are veterans,
10:32
Speaker 2: who are going to be tough, and who are grown
10:35
Speaker 2: men in a lot of in a lot of ways
10:37
Speaker 2: as opposed to being nineteen year olds who are transferring
10:39
Speaker 2: from a lower level. But a lot of them put
10:42
Speaker 2: up big numbers, like maybe not big, but like good
10:45
Speaker 2: numbers at the lower levels too, so they're at least
10:47
Speaker 2: going to do something when they come up to that height.
10:49
Speaker 2: So I mean, we Bailey average like eighteen points a game,
10:53
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, it's you've got a lot of
10:54
Speaker 2: guys that were the best player on their team coming
10:57
Speaker 2: to Indiana. So that's that's what I find interesting about it.
11:01
Speaker 2: We don't know, but there's a lot of good in there.
11:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they also I think did a good job later,
11:09
Speaker 1: maybe in the process of finding some guys that had
11:11
Speaker 1: multiple seasons of eligibility, because the one thing that I
11:15
Speaker 1: worried about when it first started, and after the first
11:18
Speaker 1: couple of commitments, it's like, do you really want to
11:20
Speaker 1: have to do this whole thing over again? I don't
11:24
Speaker 1: think you wanted. You know, people ask me, you know,
11:27
Speaker 1: shouldn't they go get some freshmen. I'm thinking a better
11:32
Speaker 1: sweet spot maybe in recruiting right now is to go
11:34
Speaker 1: find a guy who's played at North Florida for a
11:37
Speaker 1: couple of years and developed, and you at least have
11:39
Speaker 1: something to kind of put on paper and say this
11:42
Speaker 1: guy did this, rather than going and reaching for a
11:44
Speaker 1: high school kid who maybe ranked two hundred. They could
11:47
Speaker 1: pan out, but they may not be able to help
11:49
Speaker 1: you next year. And I think Indiana was in a
11:51
Speaker 1: mode of we got to find guys that can help
11:54
Speaker 1: right away next season, whether you're the tenth man or
11:56
Speaker 1: the eleventh man. I think there's gonna be scenarios where
12:00
Speaker 1: different guys are gonna get chances to play, whether you
12:02
Speaker 1: have injuries, and you don't necessarily know, as you said,
12:05
Speaker 1: what what you're gonna get out of every guy. So
12:06
Speaker 1: I do think they did a nice job of being
12:08
Speaker 1: able to mix in the experience but also find guys
12:11
Speaker 1: like Josiah Miles, Jason Drake. There's a couple of Josh Harris,
12:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm forgetting a couple of other names that have
12:19
Speaker 1: multiple seasons of eligibiles.
12:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then and then you got Sisily too. Yeah.
12:26
Speaker 2: And I think what's interesting to me, I do think
12:29
Speaker 2: they're going to take a big high school a recruiting
12:31
Speaker 2: class in twenty twenty six. Is that sort of telegraph
12:34
Speaker 2: I've gotten. So I think that you'll have again projected,
12:38
Speaker 2: you know, depending you'll have Miles Drake, dorn Cisly hair Horn, Yeah, yeah,
12:46
Speaker 2: potentially coming back. And then you add a handful of
12:48
Speaker 2: freshmen and then you can go get one or two
12:50
Speaker 2: transfer portal guys instead of doing this whole thing. But
12:53
Speaker 2: I do think that I don't want to say there's
12:55
Speaker 2: pressure to win this year, but they need to start winning.
12:58
Speaker 2: And I think that like that I saw that where
13:01
Speaker 2: the program has been and where he wants to take it,
13:03
Speaker 2: you got to win in year one to get people
13:04
Speaker 2: behind you and get the money behind you and get
13:07
Speaker 2: all those things, you know. And and I think that
13:09
Speaker 2: it's a smart way they have constructed this roster. I mean,
13:12
Speaker 2: obviously it's smart if it works. But I do agree
13:15
Speaker 2: that that getting some guys with that that you can
13:18
Speaker 2: then carry over to the next year is very important
13:22
Speaker 2: because you don't want to be doing ten transfer portal
13:24
Speaker 2: guys now. You just don't.
13:26
Speaker 1: That's the coaches. The coaches definitely don't want to do.
13:29
Speaker 2: It, I know. And and it's that's not a recipe
13:33
Speaker 2: for long term success.
13:34
Speaker 1: It isn't.
13:34
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, there are times where you're
13:36
Speaker 2: gonna have to do that because of bad fits transfers.
13:40
Speaker 2: You get a lot of guys, you get maybe you
13:41
Speaker 2: have a successful season, guys go out early that you
13:43
Speaker 2: were expecting to come back or whatever. That's going to happen.
13:46
Speaker 2: But that can't be your yearly churn. If you want
13:50
Speaker 2: to be a successful program, you've got to build culture
13:51
Speaker 2: and keep it intact.
13:53
Speaker 1: So a bit of maybe a loaded question here, but
13:55
Speaker 1: I'll let you take the the fire on this one,
13:58
Speaker 1: depending on which way you want to go with it.
13:59
Speaker 1: But what's your take on Luke Goodie? And apparently now
14:04
Speaker 1: Anthony Leil there was a report that he's trying to
14:06
Speaker 1: get an extra year of eligibility from an IU perspective,
14:11
Speaker 1: you know, I know you look at this more of
14:13
Speaker 1: maybe the fan lens that I do. What are your
14:16
Speaker 1: thoughts on those guys coming back? Do you think that's
14:19
Speaker 1: something that the fan base is going to welcome, that
14:22
Speaker 1: they should welcome, or how do you kind of approach
14:25
Speaker 1: that From looking at both of those players.
14:27
Speaker 2: I'll start with Goody. I think that he deserves another
14:31
Speaker 2: year given the way that year played out. I know
14:33
Speaker 2: it's not exactly as you get in medical red shirt
14:35
Speaker 2: or usually it's for a season ending injury, but he
14:37
Speaker 2: played below the threshold of games. I think he should
14:40
Speaker 2: get that year back, and honestly, I'd be happy to
14:42
Speaker 2: have him back as a fan. I absolutely, and it's
14:45
Speaker 2: very clear from what I have been told that the
14:48
Speaker 2: coaching staff will be happy to have him back as well,
14:50
Speaker 2: and let him know that, you know, if you want
14:52
Speaker 2: to come back back. The Anthony Leal thing kind of
14:55
Speaker 2: came out of nowhere, and I thought that was a done,
14:58
Speaker 2: you know, an over But honestly, given what Anthony Leal
15:04
Speaker 2: had to play through during his career, if I were him,
15:07
Speaker 2: I'd want to come back to and get like the
15:09
Speaker 2: bad taste out of my mouth of the way things ended.
15:12
Speaker 2: I know there has been some some people in the
15:14
Speaker 2: fan base who think that, hey, dude, just move on like,
15:17
Speaker 2: you know whatever. And there was some things said, you know,
15:20
Speaker 2: where he knew he maybe didn't endear himself to the
15:23
Speaker 2: fan base. But Anthony and Leal always played incredibly hard
15:26
Speaker 2: for Indiana. He clearly loves Indiana as some of the
15:29
Speaker 2: call We dealt with him a little bit from time
15:32
Speaker 2: to time, and great kid, and you know what, he's
15:35
Speaker 2: a Bloomington kid. If he wants to play for Indiana
15:37
Speaker 2: and he can get the waiver, I would be all
15:39
Speaker 2: for it. And again, for how difficult his career has been,
15:45
Speaker 2: I understand why he'd want to come back and have
15:49
Speaker 2: a better season to finish things on, and so I
15:51
Speaker 2: support that if he wants to do it, as long
15:53
Speaker 2: as you know, there's that whole thing about revenue sharing
15:56
Speaker 2: and all of that and how that's gonna drag down
15:58
Speaker 2: everybody else's you know, potentially bring in less money and
16:02
Speaker 2: all of that. There's all those new things to be considered,
16:05
Speaker 2: and they're the projection, you know. I think multiple people
16:08
Speaker 2: are reported they really want to have thirteen roster guys,
16:10
Speaker 2: and with Leel, I believe it's gonna be fourteen if
16:12
Speaker 2: they both come back, So that'd be right now they
16:15
Speaker 2: have eleven, so they have eleven, Okay, so it would
16:17
Speaker 2: be thirteen.
16:18
Speaker 1: Okay, right, Okay.
16:21
Speaker 2: I wasn't Yeah, at the last count, I wasn't sure.
16:22
Speaker 2: But so it look, if it doesn't impact anybody else,
16:26
Speaker 2: and it's they're gonna be you know, you would assume
16:28
Speaker 2: Leo's not gonna play very much with these guys because
16:30
Speaker 2: Derez brought in his own guys. But if he wants
16:32
Speaker 2: to be there and provide some you know, leadership and
16:36
Speaker 2: you know, be there and have a better final season,
16:39
Speaker 2: I good for him, Like if he can get it.
16:41
Speaker 2: And I also want to say, I don't think either
16:44
Speaker 2: of these guys would have pursued this without entering the
16:48
Speaker 2: transfer portal if Derees wasn't okay with it, Like, so,
16:53
Speaker 2: I mean they've clearly had those conversations, I would say,
16:57
Speaker 2: And so I don't know if people have a problem
17:00
Speaker 2: with it, I would say, if they're doing it, the
17:02
Speaker 2: coaching staff likely doesn't have a problem with it and
17:04
Speaker 2: would likely welcome it as well.
17:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little different. It's some of the other
17:09
Speaker 1: ones that we've seen, because there was I do this
17:12
Speaker 1: crazy thing in the spring, which I don't know why
17:14
Speaker 1: I do it every year, but I talk myself into
17:16
Speaker 1: it where I track every transfer in the Big ten
17:19
Speaker 1: and I constantly update it. It's just the way that
17:21
Speaker 1: I like to keep track of the rosters and lets
17:24
Speaker 1: me kind of know who's coming and going. But towards
17:27
Speaker 1: the end of the window, there started to be all
17:29
Speaker 1: these guys that started to pop in the portal that
17:32
Speaker 1: I knew didn't have eligibility left. And there's a story
17:34
Speaker 1: I think in The Athletic, which I think is on
17:36
Speaker 1: the New York Times dot com or whatever website now
17:39
Speaker 1: with their transition over to the Times, but there's a
17:42
Speaker 1: story about I think there's over one hundred guys who
17:45
Speaker 1: entered the portal that don't technically have eligibility left, which
17:49
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily love. For the sake of there has
17:54
Speaker 1: to be some kind of cut off point, right for
17:55
Speaker 1: all this. It can't just be stay in school for
17:58
Speaker 1: six or seven years or eight years. There has to
18:00
Speaker 1: be some type of cutoff. I'm just curious what you
18:02
Speaker 1: think about, maybe not specifically to Leal and Goodie but
18:06
Speaker 1: but do you agree that there needs to be some
18:08
Speaker 1: kind of UH rule set in place to where we
18:13
Speaker 1: can't have all these guys just in the portal that
18:15
Speaker 1: don't really technically have eligibility. It's just creating unnecessary chaos.
18:20
Speaker 2: What we need is like an official guidance on what
18:23
Speaker 2: eligibility is. And I think that, you know, the COVID
18:25
Speaker 2: year messed everything up because then these guys were in
18:28
Speaker 2: for like six years because they had six to five
18:30
Speaker 2: to play or six to play five of it essentially,
18:33
Speaker 2: and then you know, with medical red shirts, there's all
18:35
Speaker 2: these like you know, gray areas with it and things.
18:38
Speaker 2: I just think that the NCAA, and I realize the
18:40
Speaker 2: NCAA is there directives mean nothing now, but I just
18:44
Speaker 2: believe there needs to be something where everybody agrees to Okay,
18:48
Speaker 2: these are the parameters, like junior college, like we need
18:51
Speaker 2: to decide whether or not that counts or not. And
18:53
Speaker 2: and it doesn't the court doesn't count, so it doesn't
18:57
Speaker 2: And okay, and if that if that's the case, that's
18:59
Speaker 2: the case. Like you know, once you step on college campus,
19:02
Speaker 2: you have four years to play or five years to
19:03
Speaker 2: play for it, like you know, and and I guess
19:07
Speaker 2: it's six if you get a medical red shirt, but
19:09
Speaker 2: I just think that needs to be some standard applied.
19:12
Speaker 2: And if you don't have eligibility left, you are no
19:15
Speaker 2: longer eligible for the transfer portal like that, you can't.
19:18
Speaker 1: That's an understanding is like why why are these guys
19:20
Speaker 1: going in the portal if they don't have eligibility. But
19:22
Speaker 1: the I think the bigger issue, I don't want to
19:25
Speaker 1: say issue I have with it because obviously if there's
19:28
Speaker 1: a rule, if there's a loophole out there that you
19:29
Speaker 1: can exploit, go exploit it. But yeah, I don't understand
19:34
Speaker 1: the lack of transparency in terms of how they're approving
19:36
Speaker 1: these waivers because we're seeing these kind of like spill
19:39
Speaker 1: out on Twitter, like on a every day it's someone else,
19:42
Speaker 1: like someone was not going to get a waiver, or
19:44
Speaker 1: someone's going to get a waiver, Like most of them
19:46
Speaker 1: are all getting stamped cleared at this point because I
19:49
Speaker 1: think the NCAA realizes that they're not going to be
19:51
Speaker 1: able to win these arguments in court.
19:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the the NCAA is just like we
19:54
Speaker 2: don't want to deal with it, like yeah, it just
19:56
Speaker 2: it just doesn't seem like they're, like you said, there's
19:58
Speaker 2: no right a reason as to what gets approved and
20:02
Speaker 2: what doesn't.
20:03
Speaker 1: And I think when some of these guys I'm not
20:08
Speaker 1: speaking to Leal and Goodie, but some of the players
20:10
Speaker 1: at other schools saw that, you know, there's there's an
20:13
Speaker 1: opening here that they probably realized, well, I'm not going
20:16
Speaker 1: to make you know, several hundred thousand dollars going to
20:19
Speaker 1: play basketball maybe overseas, So why not try to go
20:23
Speaker 1: to another school for another year and maximize my earnings potential.
20:26
Speaker 1: I get that. I just think it's created an unnecessary situation.
20:30
Speaker 1: So the other thing I just wanted to ask you
20:33
Speaker 1: about was just you mentioned needing to win in year one?
20:40
Speaker 1: What is that? What do you think that looks like
20:43
Speaker 1: for Indiana fans to feel good about the direction of
20:45
Speaker 1: the program because we saw Mark Pope and these are
20:47
Speaker 1: going to be the natural comparisons that everyone's gonna have.
20:50
Speaker 1: We saw Mark Pope take over at Kentucky last year,
20:52
Speaker 1: go to the Sweet sixteen. We saw Pat Kelsey take
20:55
Speaker 1: over at Louisville, which is in far worse shape than Indiana.
20:58
Speaker 2: Was dumster fire.
20:59
Speaker 1: Right, he goes to the tournament, you know they run
21:02
Speaker 1: into Creighton, which was an unfortunate matchup for them and
21:04
Speaker 1: got beat pretty bad, but they had a really strong
21:06
Speaker 1: year overall. But there's been other examples of coaches that
21:09
Speaker 1: maybe didn't start out as strong and kind of built
21:12
Speaker 1: things up gradually. I mean, Todd Golden, I think kind
21:14
Speaker 1: of struggled early on in Florida, but maybe not the
21:17
Speaker 1: best example because the portal wasn't as prominent then as
21:20
Speaker 1: it was as is now. I'm just kind of curious.
21:23
Speaker 1: You know, you made a us in comment you got
21:25
Speaker 1: you gotta win in year one to kind of build
21:26
Speaker 1: that momentum and get the money, get the fans behind you.
21:29
Speaker 1: What does that look like from your perspective?
21:32
Speaker 2: Well, and I think that part of the reason I
21:33
Speaker 2: feel that way is because of Indiana has been basically
21:37
Speaker 2: downgraded as a program, and you've got to show where
21:40
Speaker 2: you're taking it, and not only to the fans and
21:43
Speaker 2: to the donors and people like that, but also the
21:45
Speaker 2: high school recruits that know this is an option, Like
21:48
Speaker 2: bring us back to being an option. We're gonna do
21:51
Speaker 2: things that will make you better, and we'll also we're
21:54
Speaker 2: gonna run the kind of offense you want to play in.
21:56
Speaker 2: We're gonna feature you, like, look how we use these guys.
22:00
Speaker 2: I mean that kind of stuff is very important for
22:02
Speaker 2: Indiana in the specific position. Indiana's because Indiana is a
22:05
Speaker 2: program that has the fan support, It has the money,
22:08
Speaker 2: it has facillies, it has everything you need. But it
22:11
Speaker 2: doesn't have the playing style that kids want to play in.
22:13
Speaker 2: That's that's that's been the problem. It doesn't have the
22:16
Speaker 2: coaching the kids want to play in. It doesn't have
22:18
Speaker 2: all of these things. And also kids that come to
22:21
Speaker 2: a school want to win. They want to win. They
22:23
Speaker 2: don't want to be on court in the middle of
22:25
Speaker 2: February getting blown out by forty you know. I mean,
22:28
Speaker 2: nobody wants to be that. And so it's all of
22:30
Speaker 2: these things. They can make you better, they can play,
22:32
Speaker 2: feature you in an offense you want to play in
22:34
Speaker 2: a defense, you want to plan, and also you're gonna
22:36
Speaker 2: win games. And so I think that part of that
22:39
Speaker 2: is at least showing we know how to do all
22:41
Speaker 2: of those things. Now, I do think for the fans,
22:45
Speaker 2: he needs to make the tournament near one. And I
22:48
Speaker 2: think that now, I mean, if.
22:50
Speaker 1: You mean it's not really it's not really that high
22:52
Speaker 1: of a bar.
22:53
Speaker 2: It's not no, for and for year one, I'm setting
22:56
Speaker 2: the bar there, you know, And and it's if you're
22:58
Speaker 2: better than that, great, but like you got at least
23:01
Speaker 2: get in the tournament. We got to break this streak
23:03
Speaker 2: of not being in the tournament or the pattern where
23:06
Speaker 2: you're in the tournament one year out the next. Like
23:08
Speaker 2: that needs to be the base standard for Indiana basketball.
23:11
Speaker 2: Given the investment and given the fan support, and given
23:13
Speaker 2: all of the tradition, all of those things, you need
23:15
Speaker 2: to be making the tournament every year. And so him
23:17
Speaker 2: getting in the first year needs happening. I almost did
23:20
Speaker 2: it at West Virginia without two of his best players,
23:23
Speaker 2: you know. So you think that you're able to do
23:26
Speaker 2: that in year one. And again I'm not saying that's
23:30
Speaker 2: a high bar. I'm saying that's a low bar, and
23:32
Speaker 2: it needs to happen. And if you do it, I
23:34
Speaker 2: think you can you can reason that, Hey, this has
23:37
Speaker 2: been a success. We got in the tournament. We're building
23:40
Speaker 2: from there. We've shown you what we can do. Now
23:42
Speaker 2: let us get all the players we want. Let us
23:45
Speaker 2: fully implement our system over multiple years and show you
23:48
Speaker 2: what we can do. I don't think he needs to
23:50
Speaker 2: compete for a Big Ten title in his first year
23:52
Speaker 2: on campus with ten new players. You know, I don't think.
23:55
Speaker 2: I just don't think that's going to happen, and I
23:57
Speaker 2: don't think that that's a reasonable expectation. But making the
24:00
Speaker 2: tournament is a reasonable expectation, and I think that he
24:02
Speaker 2: can do it.
24:04
Speaker 1: I also think how you lose matters one hundred percent there.
24:07
Speaker 1: I mean, how many postgame shows have you done in
24:11
Speaker 1: the last I don't know. I mean going back to
24:13
Speaker 1: Creems last year, where you come on it's a road game,
24:17
Speaker 1: You probably sit down to watch the game and you
24:19
Speaker 1: knew going into the game that they weren't gonna win,
24:21
Speaker 1: and then you come on the postgame show they lost
24:23
Speaker 1: by fifteen or twenty five or whatever it was, and
24:26
Speaker 1: it's like, well, it's the same story over and over.
24:29
Speaker 1: I would just like to see more competitiveness in those
24:31
Speaker 1: types of situations, like give yourself a chance to compete
24:34
Speaker 1: every now. I realize you're not gonna win every game,
24:36
Speaker 1: and you might have a game where you go out
24:38
Speaker 1: and get beat by twenty. That happens to pretty much
24:41
Speaker 1: everybody at some point. But don't have it, don't have
24:43
Speaker 1: it be a pattern. Don't have it be every time,
24:47
Speaker 1: you know, you go on the road to Michigan, or
24:49
Speaker 1: every time you go on the road to Iowa, every
24:51
Speaker 1: time you go to Nebraska, the expectation is, well, we're
24:54
Speaker 1: gonna play, We're gonna we're gonna go and play, but
24:56
Speaker 1: we're not gonna win.
24:57
Speaker 2: That.
24:58
Speaker 1: To me, that's kind of been the mentality of IU
25:01
Speaker 1: on the road for so long, and yeah, I think
25:04
Speaker 1: that needs to change too. I mean, you have to
25:06
Speaker 1: be competitive night in and night out if you want
25:09
Speaker 1: to be a team that's gonna make the tournament consistently.
25:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, everyone's gonna have an off night or two.
25:14
Speaker 2: That happens. But like you're right knowing going in, Okay,
25:19
Speaker 2: we're probably gonna lose this by fifteen or more. You know,
25:21
Speaker 2: is not acceptable. And it's again like saying it again.
25:25
Speaker 1: I can tell you. I can tell you Kentucky and Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan, State, Yukon, Florida, whoever.
25:32
Speaker 1: You know, schools that are considered you know, blue blood Kansas.
25:37
Speaker 1: They're not going on the road thinking that. But I
25:39
Speaker 1: think for a long time, Indiana fans have gotten that
25:42
Speaker 1: feeling because that's what they've watched, and they should agree.
25:45
Speaker 2: And they have no reason to not believe that, quite frankly,
25:48
Speaker 2: and I mean there have been times where we've been
25:50
Speaker 2: doing the postgame show and we're giving the exact I mean,
25:54
Speaker 2: we feel it. I'm sure the audience feels we're saying
25:56
Speaker 2: the exact same things every single time. It's just I
25:59
Speaker 2: remember once, I think it was during Archie's year, like
26:01
Speaker 2: we got to a point in the postgame show and
26:03
Speaker 2: it was clearly with like four straight games we'd had
26:05
Speaker 2: the exact same complaints and we're sitting there and we
26:08
Speaker 2: all just stopped talking. We're silent for about thirty seconds.
26:10
Speaker 2: I was like, does anyone want to talk about burritos
26:12
Speaker 2: or something else? Like can we just get off this subject,
26:15
Speaker 2: because I don't want to do this anymore. You know.
26:18
Speaker 1: It's like i'd tell you, it's also probably not a
26:21
Speaker 1: good idea to come out and lose your first home
26:22
Speaker 1: game by twelve points like Archie did. I think the
26:25
Speaker 1: things that kind of stick out to me is like
26:27
Speaker 1: it can't happen for degrees, like don't lose your first
26:30
Speaker 1: game by by twenty or whatever on your home court.
26:33
Speaker 1: Don't have these periods in the middle of Big Ten,
26:37
Speaker 1: like in January or February, it seems like we you
26:41
Speaker 1: lose five in a row, and it's like you can
26:42
Speaker 1: see it when the schedule comes out, like this is
26:44
Speaker 1: gonna be five. No, you got to figure out a
26:45
Speaker 1: way to not lose five in a row.
26:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean your basic job as a
26:51
Speaker 2: coach figure out a way to not lose five in
26:53
Speaker 2: a row. You know, I think that that that should
26:56
Speaker 2: be written into the contract. But no, I think that
27:00
Speaker 2: with Devrees if you look at the way his teams
27:02
Speaker 2: played at Drake, and you look, I've watched I've gone
27:04
Speaker 2: back and watched a lot of that. I watched West
27:06
Speaker 2: Virginia last West Virginia is interesting last year because they
27:10
Speaker 2: they a lot of people felt they should have been
27:11
Speaker 2: in the tournament despite not having Tucker degrees, despite missing
27:14
Speaker 2: another top score. Like that team fought hard, they played
27:18
Speaker 2: really hard, and they were competitive all the time. And
27:22
Speaker 2: if you look at it time at Drake, same thing.
27:25
Speaker 2: That was a dog fighting team. And I don't know
27:27
Speaker 2: what it's going to look like at Indiana. Obviously, you
27:30
Speaker 2: bring in different players, you have different style, you tweak
27:32
Speaker 2: your style. But I'll also say about the recruiting process
27:36
Speaker 2: for him, what we've seen from the transfer portal, he
27:38
Speaker 2: is very clearly taking a different tack, which is, I'm
27:42
Speaker 2: not going to recruit just talent. I'm recruiting a team,
27:46
Speaker 2: and he's getting guys that fit together. And that's the
27:49
Speaker 2: difference from what we have seen where it's been like
27:52
Speaker 2: just grab all the talent you can. It's more of
27:54
Speaker 2: an NBA mentality, which makes sense given Mike Woodson, you know,
27:58
Speaker 2: his career as a coach, Grab all the talent you
28:01
Speaker 2: can and then we'll make the pieces fit, whereas this
28:03
Speaker 2: is I'm recruiting specific fits. And I think that if
28:07
Speaker 2: you look at this team and the roster he's built,
28:10
Speaker 2: they fit together. You can see a bunch of different
28:12
Speaker 2: lineups where these guys can all play together in different styles,
28:15
Speaker 2: in different formats, and they can all shoot, which means
28:19
Speaker 2: they can probably all play off of each other as well.
28:22
Speaker 2: So I do think that that's a big mentality change
28:26
Speaker 2: that we haven't seen in a long time, as he
28:27
Speaker 2: is recruiting guys who fit together as opposed to just
28:30
Speaker 2: going down the transfer portal rankings and trying to grab
28:33
Speaker 2: the top guys. He's not, I mean, bring in talent,
28:36
Speaker 2: but you bring in talent that also fits together and
28:38
Speaker 2: fits your system. That's as important as anything else. And
28:42
Speaker 2: then the next thing is you develop that talent, You
28:45
Speaker 2: develop those those that chemistry so that when they play together,
28:48
Speaker 2: it looks like they have played together.
28:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Last thing before we get you out
28:54
Speaker 1: of here, Ryan, you know, a year ago when you
28:56
Speaker 1: were on the show, you were working for the Big League.
28:57
Speaker 1: Now you're over Exports Illustraw what you know. Kind of
29:01
Speaker 1: a maybe sports media nerd question here, so maybe some uh,
29:05
Speaker 1: some of the listeners will will tail off here. But
29:08
Speaker 1: what's that transition been like for you? And what what's
29:10
Speaker 1: it what's it been like working at Sports Illustrated.
29:13
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, honestly, it's been It was my my
29:15
Speaker 2: dream job from when I was, you know, ten years old.
29:18
Speaker 2: I was the kid who raced out to the mailbox
29:21
Speaker 2: to get Sports Illustrated. I wasn't like a really voracious reader,
29:24
Speaker 2: but Sports Illustrated of devour, you know, front to back
29:28
Speaker 2: every word, So you know, landing there was an absolute
29:32
Speaker 2: dream or the parent company, the Big Lead, wound up
29:35
Speaker 2: getting the and I was at the Big Lead for
29:37
Speaker 2: for eight years, and the parent company wound up getting
29:40
Speaker 2: the the rights to Sports Illustrated and transition dust over there,
29:44
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, it's been it's it's you write
29:47
Speaker 2: for one place for so long and then you move
29:49
Speaker 2: to another place. It's a different style of writing. There
29:51
Speaker 2: was a bit of a I wouldn't say a rocky transition,
29:53
Speaker 2: but just an interesting kind of change to the way
29:55
Speaker 2: I was doing things. And so that's been, you know,
29:59
Speaker 2: u certainly challenging, but maybe a good challenge at this
30:02
Speaker 2: part of my career. But it's honestly, I can't complain
30:06
Speaker 2: about it. You know, it's the place that I always
30:08
Speaker 2: wanted to work and it's been, you know great. Behind
30:12
Speaker 2: the scenes, I feel like our company is really investing
30:14
Speaker 2: in Sports Illustrated given what happened at their old place
30:17
Speaker 2: where there's a lot of bad stuff happening, They've really
30:20
Speaker 2: invested in in the you know, in bringing people in
30:23
Speaker 2: and changing the way we're doing things and helping the
30:25
Speaker 2: editorial standards. So it's been absolutely rewarding so far. I
30:29
Speaker 2: got to I mean, you know, as a as a
30:32
Speaker 2: sports nerd Alex, I got to cover my hometown team
30:36
Speaker 2: in the baseball playoff, in the Major League Baseball Playoffs
30:39
Speaker 2: at home last year. Like that's just you know, sitting
30:42
Speaker 2: at Peco Park covering the Padres and Dodgers was I
30:45
Speaker 2: mean one of the coolest things I've ever done in
30:47
Speaker 2: my career.
30:48
Speaker 1: So now I'm getting to do.
30:50
Speaker 2: Stuff like that and have that sports illustrated you know
30:54
Speaker 2: you arel to right from and having you know, sports
30:56
Speaker 2: illustrated on my resume is just a dream come true.
30:59
Speaker 2: So I'm loving every minute of it. And it's been
31:03
Speaker 2: you know, one of those things that you never think
31:05
Speaker 2: is gonna happen, that happens, and you're real happy once
31:08
Speaker 2: it does.
31:09
Speaker 1: That's awesome, man, Happy for you, Happy that things are
31:11
Speaker 1: being well over there, continue to follow along and listen
31:15
Speaker 1: to you on assembly call as well. Hopefully there won't
31:18
Speaker 1: be as many Ryan's rants in the future, right, you
31:21
Speaker 1: can maybe tone things down right if they're not getting
31:24
Speaker 1: if there's not a there's not any blowout losses to
31:27
Speaker 1: talk about, then the rants maybe become a little bit
31:29
Speaker 1: more tame. Right.
31:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll have to come up with another word for it,
31:31
Speaker 2: another art word. But yeah, no, I I and honestly,
31:35
Speaker 2: you know, for the listeners, like I am really excited
31:38
Speaker 2: about Indiana basketball and where this is headed. For the
31:40
Speaker 2: first time in a long time. I really am, and
31:42
Speaker 2: I think that that that this this group has gone
31:47
Speaker 2: about it the right way. It's been a very short time,
31:50
Speaker 2: but I'm also excited to see some of these players. Man,
31:52
Speaker 2: if you're if you want to get excited about any
31:53
Speaker 2: of basketball, Indiana basketball, go watch the highlights of some
31:55
Speaker 2: of these guys. I think. I think there are a
31:57
Speaker 2: lot of fighters that are going to be on this
31:59
Speaker 2: roster and guys who accomplished a lot and are gonna
32:02
Speaker 2: be really fun to watch for sure.
32:04
Speaker 1: Well, Ryan, thanks again for coming on this week's episode
32:06
Speaker 1: of Podcast on the Brink. Thanks everybody, as always for
32:09
Speaker 1: listening to the show. If you enjoy the show, please
32:11
Speaker 1: leave us a rating and a review over on Apple
32:13
Speaker 1: Podcasts five stars preferably, and also over at Spotify. Leave
32:16
Speaker 1: us a five star rating and a review, and we'll
32:19
Speaker 1: be back soon with another episode of Podcast on the
32:22
Speaker 1: braink