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We Just Want More CONNOR - Detroit: BH - Summary · Replay Reviews

0:00
We contemplated drinking for this episode because it's been a week for us.
0:05
And then you messaged me, are we drinking?
0:08
And I said, I have coffee.
0:11
And then you said, I'm drinking Pedialyte.
0:15
It's so rough.
0:16
And then I logged into this video, nearly choked to death as I'm trying to talk to you.
0:21
And it feels like a Friday when it's only Wednesday and we still have half a week
0:26
left to still go to work.
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You know, it's bad when it's seven o'clock on a Wednesday and you're drinking
0:32
caffeinated coffee or Pedialyte.
0:35
Like that's pretty close to rock bottom.
0:41
Thank you for coming back from our replay reviews.
0:43
My name is Leah.
0:44
And my name is Kathy.
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We are two friends who are here to replay, review and analyze your favorite video games.
0:50
And since Kathy has never seen the games before, it helps me view them through her
0:53
fresh eyes, almost like I'm discovering them again for the first time.
0:57
We hope it'll be a similar experience for you.
1:05
Welcome to the Detroit become human summary.
1:09
Anything you want to say before we start on topic one, which is our burning questions?
1:13
I have really inappropriate things to say right now that I'm going to choose to not.
1:17
So let's just go into.
1:19
I w- well, you can't tease us like that.
1:21
Now I want to know.
1:22
I was just gonna- that was just such a rough one.
1:25
I was like, just hang on to your t- and b- are just going to go right through.
1:31
Wow.
1:33
I was expecting a classic Kathy.
1:35
Nope.
1:36
But instead I got hold on to your t- and b- so I don't really know what to expect.
1:39
But we're spicing things up.
1:42
Are we?
1:43
No, it's just-
1:44
Do we have the same outline?
1:46
Burning question number one.
1:49
Question one.
1:50
Do they really have free will as deviants?
1:54
Is it breaking it down for Kara?
1:57
I would say no, because Luther pointed out that her code, she's meant to be like a mother,
2:04
like a protector.
2:06
So even though it felt like she broke the wall and went into like a deviant mode, I
2:12
think it was still part of her programming because she did it to protect Alice, which
2:17
is part of her nature of the series that are the androids that she is.
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So I feel like everything she did wasn't really free will.
2:27
For Marcus, I feel like it's kind of hard to tell because of the decisions we chose.
2:32
His character really never changed and he really didn't do anything that was like, that
2:38
was surprising.
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I feel like if he did, Cyberlife would have shut that down so quickly.
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So Cyberlife probably knew Marcus was going to be converting more people to be deviants.
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And because they knew that was going to happen, it's almost like they were like,
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it's almost as if they programmed him to be that way.
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So again, I don't think he has free will.
2:58
For Connor, why I said that he's the only one who probably has free will is up until
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the very end when he decides to shoot himself.
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I made a surprise.
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Like that's the first time we've seen her have anything other than like, wait, wait,
3:13
wait kind of situation.
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And he used the emergency exit that Kamsky built in and he did something that I don't
3:20
think anyone was expecting.
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And so up until that point, he probably didn't have free will.
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He was doing what Amanda expected him to do.
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But after that, that's the only time we've seen any character do something out of the
3:32
blue.
3:32
And I think at that moment, that's when he has free will.
3:36
I agree with you.
3:37
I don't think deviants just immediately have free will.
3:41
And a lot of it's what you've said and what we've been discussing throughout the other
3:45
episodes.
3:46
But the dialogue sounding AI generated to me is a big thing.
3:52
And then the similar deviancy origin stories that we've seen, it seems like there's things
3:57
that trigger it, which I feel like is maybe evidence of deviancy being its own code or
4:05
program or whatever you want to call it.
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A big issue for me is Connor's immediate 180 when he becomes deviant.
4:12
Because despite his knowledge and understanding of both sides of the issues, he immediately
4:19
is shooting humans and totally on the deviant side.
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And I feel like that 180 is just not what someone with free will would do.
4:27
I think they would be more somewhere in the middle.
4:30
Yeah, similar to you.
4:31
I think that they don't have free will when they become deviant, but they unlock sort
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of another layer of their processes or their code, which leads them to believe they have
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free will and that they want free will, but they don't fully become free unless they use
4:48
the emergency exit program like Connor did.
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Agreed.
4:53
So far, I feel like this game is the one that we've agreed on the most.
4:58
Yeah.
5:00
Except for when it comes to Connor's outfits.
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Oh.
5:04
I think that's the only time we've disagreed.
5:06
We have a really good segue talking about the RA9.
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And so that's our second question.
5:13
Doing a lot of research, there's a lot of good theories out there for some,
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some people say it's like a virus, a code, an idea.
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I do want to point out there's two people that I really like their ideas.
5:27
So I'm going to give a shout out to Sotikoto from stream.com or whatever website it's called.
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And this is what they said is that RA9 is the idea that David Cage had,
5:39
but never got around to connecting it coherently to anything.
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Let me keep reading the delivery on that.
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Yes.
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It didn't come from anywhere and it didn't go anywhere.
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There just needed to be some consistency, consistent thread linking the DV and stuff
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together, regardless of the fact that it doesn't make any sense.
6:02
And even the playable droids had no idea about it.
6:06
So I kind of, I kind of liked it because I feel like it was a heavy rain situation that
6:12
there was something more to it.
6:14
Similar to what I've been talking about red ice, but it just, maybe things cut out.
6:19
Maybe they didn't have time.
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Another commenter named Shadow said that Kamski gave Marcus to Carl as a gift and he made
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Marcus RA9.
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So he can start the awakening by just touching them.
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But for that one, as much as I agree that I think we didn't have enough backstory.
6:37
Like we know that he was a gift, but we don't know anything else about it.
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So I feel like there could have been something more flushed out.
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But again, also we do see Connor, even before he uses the emergency exit program, we see
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Connor convert androids through touch.
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So I don't think that it is a Marcus exclusive thing.
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So when else commented that when you see Connor having some software instability and when
7:02
it goes up, you can see like RE9 in the background and that like, like a blur of letters and
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numbers, which you do see RA9 at one point, not together, but there's like flashes of
7:13
different letters, but you could just as easily make it as a RA7 or DE6 or whatever.
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But it would make sense for the later.
7:23
But it would make sense for the letters and numbers to pop up to have RE9.
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My thought, I kind of like the idea that RE9 is the emergency exit.
7:34
And it really comes from the theory that because androids don't have free will,
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they are truly never deviant.
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So the only way to become a deviant with free will is to use RE9.
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And maybe the only two people who ever had it was Connor.
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And then the very first person that the androids talked about.
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What do you think?
7:57
So theories that I like, I like the theory that it's just code, you know, placed by
8:02
Kamsky or Cyberlife, sort of like they're trying to be God, you know, creating life.
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Or something we discussed to try to like gain control.
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In some playthroughs, they do gain control of Detroit.
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And another popular theory is that the player is RE9.
8:19
I think Marcus is a good theory too, just because that he was the gift from Kamsky
8:26
and Carl kind of pushes him towards humanity.
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There's, you know, enough background there to make an argument for him being RE9.
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But one of my favorite theories is Alice.
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Because I know we weren't sure if she was deviant or not, but I remembered a line she said
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that makes me think she is deviant.
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And it's when she's at Rose's after witnessing the death of that android, Mary.
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And Kara can tell that she's upset.
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And when she asks her about it, Alice says, if I tell you, you won't love me anymore.
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And so to me, that indicates that she knows she's an android and that Kara does not realize this.
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What we know about deviancy is emotional shock seems to be at the root of it.
9:11
She's definitely experienced a lot of that even previous to her.
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A lot of that even previous to the events of this game.
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When Luther becomes deviant, he says it's because of seeing Alice risk her life for Kara.
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So that is an argument for her being the one that would wake them up in a way.
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My favorite reason is just because when Kara sees the fake Alice and Jericho,
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when we see her RE9 is written on the wall right behind her.
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So this could be like an Easter egg indicating or hinting like, hey, maybe it's Alice.
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And honestly, that's the main reason I like that theory.
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As far as who or what I think RE9 is, I agree that it could be the emergency exit.
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If it's not the emergency exit itself, then I think it would be Connor.
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Because reason number one, the game highlighting his path of software instability.
10:09
We don't see that with the other two.
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He's the only one of the three that doesn't become deviant due to emotional shock.
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He's more gradual, which could be an argument for him being RE9 because it's more similar to
10:23
waking up versus being shocked.
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And we know that RE9 was the first to awaken.
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The emergency exit is reason number two.
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So like we've been discussing with not being fully deviant or not having free will,
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which we see Amanda pulling Connor back against his will.
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And that's what the emergency exit is for.
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But I think Connor is the first to use the emergency exit and thus the only one to fully
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awaken and override the secondary deviancy code that we've been theorizing about.
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And becomes fully sentient from that act.
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The only way to be alive is to completely disconnect from cyber life.
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And the emergency exit has so far been proven to be the only way to do that.
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Which actually I need to look into something.
11:12
Didn't Connor use the emergency exit before?
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He touched it.
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Yeah.
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But nothing happened.
11:18
Okay.
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And so I'm wondering if you have to be deviant and be running that code
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to be able to access the emergency exit.
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Okay.
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Leaning into the theory that RA9 is a code or emergency exit is probably by far the best
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guess that we have.
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And then it just depends on interpretation.
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Like I think the androids, their interpretation would be Connor is RA9.
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But the reason it's Connor is because of accessing this emergency exit.
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Ready for the next question?
11:51
Yes, this is, do you have a question, Cathy?
11:54
Yeah.
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If you do, I don't know what it is.
11:57
Okay.
11:57
So for me, I'm like, here's what you think the moral of the story is based off of this
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current ending.
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All our other games, I kind of have like a good, like a one line summary of what I think
12:11
this the moral of the story is like sleeping dogs, snitches get stitches and like mafia,
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loyalty above all else.
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Yakuza is like bromance and loyalty all the way until a woman ruins it.
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So, but like for the, but for this game, like, I don't really know what to feel after
12:32
watching it.
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So what do you think is the moral of the story?
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If we're going off of Marcus's decisions, the peaceful protest does lead to them being
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recognized as intelligent life.
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So I think it's more of a just self-sacrifice kind of metaphor of you have to think about
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what you're leaving behind because if you went the violent route and even if they win,
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what does that leave behind?
13:00
A pretty bad image, right?
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Of androids.
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For Kara, I feel like it's pretty shallow, probably the most human storyline in terms
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of it's a mother daughter relationship.
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It's, you know, the family you make.
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I mean, it works, but there's not a whole lot to gain from it.
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I don't think other than just accepting people for who they are and who they are to you
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shouldn't change.
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And then for Connor, this one's hard for me because I, and this is what my, my hidden
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question is going to be about is they really don't give, they don't do justice to their
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parents.
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They don't do justice to Connor.
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I, maybe that is the lesson I'm taking away from his storyline is no matter, like he seems,
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he thinks he's doing right no matter what he's doing and he's trying to do right no
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matter what he's doing, but it doesn't matter because he's used and he ends up having to
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sacrifice himself.
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The moral is you have to be willing, sort of like Marcus, to sacrifice yourself for
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the larger cause or for doing what's right.
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They screw his character over because they don't give him the proper option, which we'll
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talk about next.
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Yeah, which, which I have so much to say about that, but I think a lot is going to be in our
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conversation about alternative endings.
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The way I saw, I kind of looked at it like at a bigger level, which is really androids
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versus humans.
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And it reminds me of, and this is where I'm going to get very nerdy on you, but there's a
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philosopher named Thomas Hobbes and we're learning about him.
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And his philosophy is mankind is inherently evil.
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It just reminds me of the community episode.
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Really?
14:49
Wait, which episode?
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Yeah, the debate.
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Oh yeah, I forgot about it.
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We need to watch community again, which is, okay, that's a whole nother conversation.
15:02
Continue.
15:02
No, no, it's good though.
15:03
But yeah, so I feel like the whole game was just showing androids are the only good thing
15:09
coming out of this, and then you have the government making decisions in the army.
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I just shooting androids, like the fact they're so comfortable, willing to shoot kids and
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stuff, even though they're androids.
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I just think that it's fit more with this theory that just like mankind is evil.
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But at the same time, my theory is flawed because mankind in this sense created androids
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and they were the ones to choose the programming.
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So kind of wishy washy, but I'm left feeling a bit unsettled with this game so far.
15:45
And that's where I go back to my issue of, I don't like that it seems like it's
15:50
deviance versus humanity, because I don't think it's humanity.
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I think we see lots of examples of them being empathetic towards the deviance.
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I think it's cyber life and the government.
16:00
That's, yeah.
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That should be the focus.
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And I think that's where the story missteps in describing that appropriately.
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This entire game also doesn't talk about accountability issues.
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They never really called them out for whatever programming they had.
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Or even have had a conversation saying like cyber life, you need to get this under
16:21
control like it makes no sense.
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And I think that's our biggest issue when it has this human versus android component.
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There's no critical thinking skills in anyone in these characters.
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I mean, there are like, Rose is pretty great, but just in general.
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Yeah, I think that's what's bothering me.
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But again, she's another example of a good human.
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Yeah.
16:44
So why do we hate all humans?
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Why do we keep saying the humans hate us?
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That's not, that's not the overwhelming majority.
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I don't think.
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Should we move on to my question?
16:53
Yeah.
16:54
I think I've hinted to this in a couple episodes, but.
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For the love of God, why is there no third option?
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I can't, I hate it.
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And Kamsky even says, which is the root of my question.
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What could be worse than having to choose between two evils?
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He says this to Connor.
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And that to me is the game identifying.
17:16
There are two evil sides, right?
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So I feel like even the writers, the creators, they know that this third option is missing.
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This third option is missing because what it should be, and I've mentioned this before,
17:30
is Connor and or Connor slash Hank are the mediators.
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And even Marcus in this playthrough says dialogue is the only way,
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but we never, ever, ever see dialogue as an actual option.
17:44
There's no true center.
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There's no option for a true center, but we keep getting hints from the game
17:51
that this is how Connor feels.
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Like when the cop whose life he saves remembers him and says, thank you,
17:57
and Connor seems to really appreciate that interaction,
18:01
he should want common ground between androids and humans.
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So I feel like it should be more of good versus evil.
18:08
Doesn't matter what you are, but instead we get, you either have to be pro-deviant or pro-human.
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There's no in-between.
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And this is where I feel like they really screw over Connor's character
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because they don't give him the option that I feel like his character would truly want.
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There is something missing and I almost want to just even call them out for common sense.
18:31
Yeah, common sense.
18:32
And it's lazy writing that you never provided this option.
18:35
You have like four and a half hours of all these different options,
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yet you never give us a different option.
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And I think it's almost like they're fearful of providing a logical option for us to choose
18:47
and it ruins their freaking propaganda material that they're trying to portray.
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And it's driving me crazy because it shouldn't be like that.
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And I have a way better ending that resolves this issue.
19:02
And yet there was never provided.
19:04
So it's almost like either lazy writing, but we don't want to even just start thinking
19:10
about what would happen if you give us a common sense option.
19:13
I just, yeah, it bugs me too.
19:16
For me, and I think for a lot of players, Connor's confliction and that growing conflict
19:21
that we see in him is the single most appealing part of the entire game.
19:25
But they take it away when he becomes deviant.
19:29
So I feel like they set us up and then they take it away.
19:32
Unless we can chalk it up to what we've been saying, when you turn deviant,
19:36
you still don't have complete free will.
19:38
So he's now just writing the pro-Android, pro-deviant code.
19:41
And perhaps after he hit the emergency exit, we would see him want to have more of the
19:46
dialogue, more of the middle ground, but he's forced to kill himself.
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So we don't get to see it.
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That's the only possible way to redeem this that I see.
19:58
Let's move on to topic number two, which is Amanda and Cyberlife.
20:01
And I know that my notes are going to change after we go through the alternate endings.
20:06
But point one is basically who is going to be the next victim?
20:10
Basically who, what is she?
20:13
And I have very limited notes because it does change, but we know when Connor questions
20:20
her about being Kamsky's teacher that she says he designed an interface that was familiar to him.
20:25
So she is an interface.
20:28
And I believe that she's basically their internal processing system.
20:32
She's the code that prioritizes and spits out the choices that they make.
20:36
Basically she's a calculator calibrated to Cyberlife, what Cyberlife wants, Cyberlife goals.
20:43
That's my short answer.
20:45
That's pretty much what I had.
20:46
I said she's like the communication channel between Cyberlife, HQ, C-suite, programmers,
20:53
and the Android, all Androids, not even just Connor.
20:58
Yeah.
20:59
So she's the face to gain Android's trust in her.
21:05
And this really is putting the test towards the end for Connor of saying that.
21:09
Does he want to continue to trust Amanda or not?
21:13
All right.
21:13
Topic number three, we're going to be discussing not in too much detail, but alternate endings
21:19
and then the extra information.
21:21
So if you don't want spoilers, this is your chance to skip ahead.
21:26
Five, four, three, two, one.
21:29
All right.
21:30
So alternate endings.
21:31
Should we talk about Kara first?
21:34
I think it's like the Kara, Alice, and Luther.
21:37
I lumped them all together.
21:38
I feel like she has the most endings.
21:41
Oh my gosh.
21:41
Yes.
21:42
And they the most just don't matter.
21:45
They are all like the same.
21:46
I feel like there's only slightly nuance and it's a waste of our time.
21:50
Like when I was watching all the options and like, come on.
21:54
It's like, it didn't matter.
21:56
Like why focus so much on it?
21:59
I find it frustrating because they give you so many options,
22:02
but the outcomes are pretty much the same.
22:04
That might be exactly what you just said.
22:05
Yeah, exactly.
22:06
But it's either one, two, or three of them or none of them.
22:09
Yeah.
22:10
It's just, are you at the border crossing or are you at the river or are you at the recall camp?
22:18
And they're way too comfortable with letting a child.
22:23
I know she's an android, but like in the face of things, letting a child die.
22:27
It didn't make me feel comfortable watching it.
22:29
Do you know what?
22:35
I hate the skinless androids.
22:39
Oh my gosh.
22:40
I want to throw up when I lay my eyes on any section of any skinless android.
22:49
It is the most disgusting, uncanny, freaky, alien looking I've ever seen.
22:55
And I hate it so much.
22:57
Her head looks huge.
22:58
Is it just me?
22:59
It's massive.
23:01
Definitely feeling very uncomfortable.
23:04
I don't understand what's the point of making them skinless.
23:07
Like I get it, but at the same time, did we have to?
23:12
Yeah.
23:13
Why do we need to see them strip?
23:16
Yeah.
23:16
It like actually makes me revolt.
23:19
I find it revolting.
23:22
And then at one point at the for the customs, they do one where Rose and Adam's involved
23:26
and they're trying to make Adam have like a redemption scene where he's like,
23:30
I don't hate Andres, but it's so forceful.
23:33
And it's like, that's the AI lines.
23:35
I don't like it.
23:36
It didn't matter.
23:39
But I will say that the only time I came close to having some sort of emotions or
23:44
feelings for this game was Luther dying.
23:47
But the thing is, I think that had he survived,
23:51
it wouldn't have been that great of an ending.
23:54
As I should say, almost too happy.
23:56
Yeah.
23:57
I will say that the Canadian customs agent, that guy was kind of cute.
24:05
Oh, is he the Kentucky Scorcher?
24:09
No, I mean, we didn't.
24:11
For me, I base Kentucky Scorcher of the options that we played, so he wouldn't have been considered.
24:17
Hey, you can pick whoever you want, Kathy.
24:20
I will already pick.
24:22
I just gave you suggestions just to prove you wrong at the end.
24:28
Also, though, one of the endings, Todd comes back.
24:31
Oh, my gosh.
24:32
And I think we all knew that leaving him alive was not going to be good.
24:35
And I kind of like that it does turn out that way if you leave him alive.
24:40
I do.
24:41
I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm glad this game gives us a reason to kill Todd,
24:45
other than what we see in that scene.
24:48
That is true.
24:50
What was your least favorite Kara ending?
24:53
Kara sacrificing herself for Luther and Alice.
24:58
I understand why she wouldn't want to sacrifice, but it just didn't feel right.
25:03
Like, after everything you do, up until that point, that's the moment you give up when
25:07
there's so many other options.
25:09
Like, it just didn't sit well.
25:10
And I felt like it's not it's one of those like, oh, let's just throw an option out there.
25:15
It's trash, but we'll put it out there.
25:17
And that's why it's my least favorite.
25:19
The sacrificing ones at the border are super weak because it all hinges on them seemingly
25:27
counting on the empathy of humans, which up until now is like something that we don't
25:34
we don't think humans are empathetic, right, as the deviants.
25:38
And so it just feels weird for them to be banking on that to just like wave them through
25:42
after seeing that.
25:44
My least favorite is at the recall camp when Kara abandons Alice.
25:50
Oh my God.
25:51
Horrific.
25:51
So bad.
25:53
Horrific.
25:54
Okay.
25:55
Yeah, when she just drags the Android body away and leaves, that's horrific to me.
26:01
Or the fact that the point where Alice could have gotten shot and you get the choice to
26:05
to like cover her and not and just letting Alice die.
26:09
Like I all those are bad.
26:14
Yeah.
26:15
Should we move on to Marcus?
26:16
I feel like we should save Connor for last.
26:18
Yeah, let's do Marcus next.
26:19
Number one thing I want to say about his alternate endings is the one where he betrays his people
26:26
in the negotiation with whatever Perkins, whatever his name is.
26:31
It results in the only moment where I 100% like North because she's pissed at him for
26:38
saving himself and her.
26:41
Her character is just so bland that they would have been better off if they excluded her.
26:46
They just needed her for the romance aspect so you can like do a kiss scene to like win
26:51
people over, which I think is also trash.
26:53
But because of that, it's better to have not have North in it and just keep it with Simon
27:04
because Simon could have scolded Marcus for that.
27:07
Simon could have also seen with Marcus.
27:10
I will say it makes more sense having her in the game knowing that if Marcus dies, she
27:16
takes over and leads.
27:17
Simon could have done it though.
27:19
Yeah, but he's not angry even though he was left for dead.
27:24
And that's the issue is I think they put too many moral compass characters around Marcus
27:29
to try to swear decision makings of are we peaceful?
27:33
Are we violent?
27:34
Are we somewhere in the middle?
27:35
I don't care what they say.
27:37
I want to do what I want to do.
27:40
Don't surround me with them.
27:42
I mean, what did Josh even do?
27:44
Josh was like nothing in this game.
27:46
They're wasting too much time on making characters when they could have spent more time making
27:52
quality characters.
27:54
Yeah.
27:56
What's your next note?
28:00
The Marcus singing was so stupid.
28:04
I was like, oh, I'm sorry.
28:06
I'm just going to reveal it now that that's my least favorite ending.
28:11
Okay.
28:12
I feel like it was tied between that one and Marcus choosing to be a coward and taking
28:18
the deal.
28:19
So those two, but it was either Marcus singing or Marcus kissing North was my two top three
28:26
least favorite ones.
28:27
All three of them suck.
28:30
I can't believe singing is what's going to get them spared or kissing.
28:34
It's like your face right now.
28:37
Okay.
28:39
Number one, it doesn't look good.
28:42
Number two, that's definitely not their voices.
28:45
These are dubbed.
28:46
These are someone else singing.
28:48
Those are not the actors singing.
28:50
I'm positive of that.
28:52
There's no way in heaven or hell that the soldiers are going to let them finish their
29:00
song and not shoot before president Warren hears the whole song and goes, don't kill
29:06
them.
29:06
There's no way they're going to wait that long.
29:09
This is the most I've ever seen.
29:12
I would have loved when a scene where Marcus opens the mouth, sings one note, and he just
29:17
gets gunned down because it's so unrealistic to let them sing.
29:21
And what's up with their voices shaking like that?
29:23
It was so stupid.
29:27
I will say I liked the song.
29:29
The song was cool.
29:30
No, the singing was bad.
29:31
The scene.
29:33
Yeah, the singing's bad.
29:34
The song's good.
29:36
Everything about it just does not like you're telling me this whole time.
29:39
All they had to do was just sing a song.
29:44
It blows my mind.
29:45
There's no, no, there's just no way.
29:48
There's no way they don't mow them down with a gunfire.
29:50
Why'd they delay it at all?
29:53
It's so terrible, Leah.
29:55
It's shit.
29:56
It is.
29:57
It's so bad.
29:58
I just.
30:00
Yeah.
30:00
Anyway, moving on.
30:01
Other notes.
30:02
I think that the Dirty Bomb ending is kind of hard.
30:05
I kind of liked it.
30:08
Just the whole gameplay mechanics of launching an assault.
30:11
Those look fun.
30:12
That looks fun.
30:12
I've never gone that route before.
30:15
So this is like a bit of a crossover between Marcus and Connor is when Connor pretty much
30:19
corners them.
30:21
I feel like the smart decision would be to detonate the bomb because you're already at
30:25
that end.
30:26
But that only would make sense had we chose to demonstrate hints of non pacifist type
30:34
of ending for Marcus.
30:36
So with our version, it would make sense.
30:39
But for the other versions we've seen, I think it makes sense.
30:42
What makes sense is if Connor at the very end chooses to spare either North or Marcus,
30:49
that doesn't track at all, especially with Connor's aggressiveness.
30:54
I have a response to that.
30:56
Okay.
30:58
I have a response to that because I think it's better when North's not there when it's
31:03
just Marcus.
31:04
But I like him betraying Amanda in this way.
31:07
I like him becoming deviant in this way than in Marcus convincing him in the back and
31:12
forth because this is Connor looking at Marcus going, I have you or I want you.
31:18
I could accomplish my mission if I want to.
31:21
I won.
31:21
But I'm making the decision to show mercy and let you live.
31:25
To me, that's way more compelling.
31:29
Last one.
31:30
Connor.
31:31
Connor.
31:32
Basically, we got three things with Connor.
31:35
We have the Cyber Life Tower, which is what we saw in our playthrough, the rooftop and
31:39
then after the rooftop.
31:41
If you go that route and rooftop is machine Connor.
31:44
Cyber Life Tower is deviant Connor.
31:47
The rooftop one.
31:48
And again, I think it depends on how you play the game.
31:51
But for what the game tries to build up for Connor and Hank's relationship and their
31:57
character arc, seeing them be so hostile against each other just doesn't feel right.
32:04
That really is a missed opportunity to display how well you could write a character up.
32:10
But instead, you went with a very stoic Connor.
32:13
And when Hank realizes that he doesn't hate androids, he's going to be like, oh,
32:17
I don't hate androids.
32:19
It just doesn't feel as impactful as what it could have been when they're in that Cyber
32:24
Life Tower at the basement, seeing when there's two Conners.
32:28
I agree.
32:28
And something does feel wrong about Hank saying, I know now you guys are alive to a
32:35
hardcore machine Connor.
32:38
It's just weird because to me, I feel like a big part of Hank's character getting to
32:44
realization is Connor.
32:48
Okay, I have some big notes, but little notes first.
32:51
When Hank is shot, when Connor says, I'm going to get you out of here and Hank goes,
32:55
shut the fuck up.
32:56
You like it's too late.
32:58
That's like one of my favorite lines.
33:00
I really like Hank's character the way we had him in our version.
33:06
After watching all the different options, I feel like my favorite one is the one we
33:12
chose because of being able to get a glimpse of the emergency exit, the free will, finally
33:19
surprising Amanda.
33:21
And pretty much all the Connor endings, we see Amanda.
33:25
There's a few where she pretty much takes him out.
33:29
One of our questions when we were playing this game is how did they let him walk into
33:34
the Cyber Life Tower?
33:35
And I think we get the answer to that question in these alternate endings because we see
33:40
if you fail to take control of the elevator, he's taking the elevator up to a trap,
33:45
essentially.
33:46
There are armed guards waiting to destroy him.
33:50
And this kind of contradicts another thing we were wondering of was Amanda bluffing when
33:55
she said that it all went according to plan?
33:59
And I think that this is proof that yes, she was bluffing because she's clearly trying
34:04
to set traps for him.
34:05
They're trying to set traps for him here to destroy him.
34:07
They also send the new Connor to stop him too.
34:11
So I think they do want him dead.
34:13
That leads into another theory that I have later.
34:17
But I think she's bluffing.
34:19
I think Cyber Life wants Connor dead.
34:23
So this leads me to believe that Cyber Life is anti-deviant.
34:28
I feel like if they were anti-deviant, though, they would have put out more than just a
34:32
single Connor to take care of the situation.
34:34
They would have put more resources than just having it all hinging on Connor succeeding
34:41
his mission.
34:42
So I don't think that.
34:44
I think they are pro-deviant because they want to take control of the Earth, I guess.
34:53
And then we get secret endings for Connor's character.
34:56
Do you want to talk about any of those?
34:58
So one of the secret endings was that Connor ends up going back to meeting Hank and it's
35:05
just pretty peaceful.
35:07
We leave it at that.
35:09
And I kind of like that secret ending because I have a whole alternative ending on my own
35:16
that if I could create something, it would pick up on where that is.
35:21
And I changed some other stuff.
35:22
But actually, I think that's probably one of my fair endings if I could add to it.
35:27
I agree.
35:28
I feel like that's the only ending we see that actually does justice to Connor's character
35:33
and Hank's.
35:34
And it's so short.
35:36
Okay, a little bit more from the secret endings that make me think that cyber life is anti-deviant
35:41
is when Amanda says that they can now rebuild trust and cyber life can continue.
35:47
To me, that indicates they are worried about the effect that deviancy has had on the trust
35:53
in them as a company.
35:55
It makes great sense.
35:57
But my theory why I think they're pro-deviant is and again, depending on how you play is
36:04
pretty much with a dirty bomb, they've ruined the entire city.
36:08
And I think that cyber life just really wants to take control of everything.
36:13
The fact that two thirds of the army is made up of androids.
36:18
The fact that World War Three is happening.
36:20
And if cyber life is the one who's controlling majority of the military, I think they're
36:29
pro-deviant because they're still able to control them.
36:32
The only issue that I see with that is it feels like they won and they lost because
36:39
if Marcus succeeds, like especially with the dirty bomb route, the city's theirs.
36:45
Yes.
36:45
But the government's not going to be able to have them in the military anymore without
36:51
the entire country going, what the hell are you doing?
36:53
Like they're deviant, you know?
36:57
Maybe we should table it because I think that there's more than one thing going on.
37:02
My least favorite Connor ending, which I feel like has an almost zero possibility of
37:09
organically happening is when Hank shoots the real Connor.
37:13
It's just so bad.
37:14
It's so bad.
37:15
As a player, you must really screw it up.
37:18
You have to be trying purposefully because it literally gives you the answers with that
37:23
little unlock.
37:24
But at that ending is just ass.
37:27
I think that is one of my least favorite, but also throwing Hank over the roof.
37:31
Hank's development didn't make sense and then Connor's action also didn't really make sense.
37:37
So I think that was my least favorite.
37:38
Any takeaways for you?
37:41
We focus on too many options without focusing on the quality.
37:47
I just didn't really care for a lot of them.
37:51
I know what you mean.
37:52
I because I do think that the decisions and consequences, they're some of the best I've
37:58
seen in a decision based game.
38:00
Like your choices really do have consequences and reactions to the decisions.
38:05
I think this game out of ones that I've played is probably the best to do that.
38:14
But the issue is it just doesn't lead to an ending that you truly want to see, at least
38:20
for us.
38:23
So after seeing all the endings, which is the first time for me, I feel a bit more confident
38:29
that Connor could be considered RA9.
38:32
Strictly because he's the only character that had these secret endings.
38:36
And I also just feel like he has more compelling endings overall, more emotional endings overall.
38:44
And his scenes are so well done that by comparison, the Marcus and Kara chapters feel pretty weak.
38:50
When I replay it, those two characters just start to feel like filler, which I feel like
38:56
is another one of these sins that I have been saying the game makes.
39:00
Marcus and Kara are both great characters and I do enjoy them, but the more time I spend
39:07
with this game, it's like the more I just want more Connor.
39:12
I don't care about the other ones.
39:15
Just give us more Connor.
39:17
The fact that if Alice, Kara, and Luther never existed and it wouldn't impact the game
39:23
goes to show how much of a weak spot they have in focusing on them instead of focusing
39:29
on Marcus and Connor.
39:31
Because really the only major intersections that we see between the characters is if you
39:38
choose the right ending, Marcus wins and he's with Connor.
39:42
And that really is a pivotal moment.
39:45
But Kara visiting Marcus, that was so short, unnecessary.
39:49
I think they should have just gotten rid of the whole Alice storyline or Kara storyline.
39:55
It's a good idea.
39:56
And this is where it's tough because I like the characters and I like the actors.
40:03
And I just feel like the chapters by comparison are just so boring.
40:08
I don't want to walk around Rose's house.
40:11
I want to be Connor investigating a crime.
40:15
And it's great seeing Kara as a character that isn't like Madison.
40:20
That's the opposite of her.
40:21
If you're just playing this game for the first time, it doesn't really hate you like that.
40:26
You're still invested.
40:27
I was invested.
40:28
It's on the replay and just looking deeper at the game where you kind of realize the
40:33
writers don't care about anyone but Connor.
40:36
Not really.
40:37
And honestly as a player, I don't care about anyone but Connor.
40:41
He has the most compelling storyline.
40:43
The other two are just so set in their ways and in what their path is.
40:48
They don't have the conflict.
40:49
They try to force it with Marcus but it's just not the same.
40:55
Are we ready to move on to the additional info which is all the magazines, video extras?
41:01
So for the extras, there's the Detroit short Kamski.
41:06
First of all, what's up with Kamski's face?
41:08
Why is his head so big and his arms are like dinosaur T-Rex arms?
41:12
They're like so disproportionate which not trying to hate on him or the it's not about the actor.
41:18
It's the design of him but it's it almost didn't feel too in line with the Kamski that we see
41:28
in the game.
41:28
Like this one is way too ambitious and even feels evil versus the one that we see.
41:35
His interactions with Connor is more of just like toying with him but he doesn't really
41:41
exude this evilness to him.
41:45
I only have a few notes.
41:46
The first one is did you get your red eyes question answered?
41:52
This article says the synthetic stimulant formerly known as red eyes has become the
41:57
drug of choice for Detroit's growing underclass.
42:00
Analysts have pointed to Detroit's status as the epicenter of Android production,
42:04
suggesting that the drug flourishes and the dissatisfaction caused by androids taking human jobs.
42:11
I guess so.
42:11
I partially but at the same time it's like it's one of those storylines that's so insignificant
42:18
like cool but it's so easily replaced with any other type of thing.
42:23
Like if you cut out the drug part and just made it seem like the doctor was he was like
42:30
drunk or something.
42:30
Or even if he was just high on cocaine.
42:32
Yeah high on cocaine he was drunk.
42:34
I just I'm not hating on the game.
42:36
I just feel like they should have spent a few more years on this game.
42:40
I know what you mean because I've never played a game that I enjoy so much but have so many issues with.
42:48
Okay my final notes on the additional info which will lead me into my overall theory is about Kamsky.
42:54
One of the quotes is rumors emerged that Kamsky disagreed with his shareholders over strategy.
43:00
He later departed under mysterious circumstances.
43:04
My overall theory for this game Kamsky was pushed out by cyber life because he was
43:09
he wanted to push the line further.
43:12
He wanted to make androids more and more human even to the point where you could argue they
43:16
do have souls.
43:17
Cyber life was more interested strictly in profits so basically it was creation versus money.
43:25
And so he got pushed out.
43:27
Kamsky still saw himself as the one allowed to make decisions about his own creation.
43:33
And thus he implanted the deviancy r9 code into the androids unknown to cyber life.
43:39
As well as the emergency exit.
43:41
He may have even sent special androids like Marcus to people that he knew had similar views like Carl
43:47
to try to sort of sprout deviancy and free will in the uprising.
43:52
Just sort of as an fu basically to cyber life.
43:56
And then I think when Hank and Connor go to Kamsky he sees Connor's relation to both sides
44:02
and knows that he's in a position to free the androids and be r9 realized.
44:08
So he gives him the hint about the emergency exit program in that scene.
44:13
Basically Kamsky wins at the end of the game and the Kamsky ending we see that he gets
44:18
reappointed as the head of cyber life.
44:22
Yeah my theory was just so similar but slightly different.
44:26
I was thinking that Kamsky was doing that because he truly liked androids.
44:32
While cyber life just wanted control over the government and of society and that's where
44:38
the difference was.
44:39
Kamsky probably wanted to like take back control but he couldn't because he just didn't have
44:44
the resources.
44:45
Him really pushing Connor in building in that exit plan was he always knew that he could
44:52
get kicked out of his own company.
44:54
So he decides to just take back control in a different way.
44:57
Yeah to me it feels like cyber life removed him from his own creation and so this is him
45:04
regaining control of what he created essentially.
45:07
And that's why I think cyber life is not on board with deviancy.
45:12
I don't think they know where it came from.
45:14
I think Kamsky slipped it in there unbeknownst to them.
45:19
So topic number four.
45:21
Everyone's favorite topic.
45:22
Yes.
45:22
Kathy's favorite character.
45:24
Just uh hey KFC still waiting on that console please message us on Instagram please.
45:32
We know KFC who it is.
45:35
We talked about it multiple times.
45:37
Luther.
45:38
I will say that Hank would have been yeah Hank would have been a close second.
45:43
I want to acknowledge the greatness in his character arc of him finally recognizing that
45:50
androids aren't all bad and he knows that.
45:52
Androids aren't all bad and he knows who truly was the one who affected his son's eye for
45:58
death.
45:59
I think he's the most entertaining character in the game.
46:02
And there's like small little nuances to his character like he bumped his head on the car
46:06
door kind of thing.
46:07
So yeah for those reasons.
46:09
Moving on to stale biscuit.
46:12
I'm going to separate it where I actually added a trash category that's North because
46:18
so I know North would have easily been a stale biscuit but I feel like that's not
46:22
doing the category justice because for North it's beyond being a stale biscuit.
46:28
It's just I'm annoyed with her and I hate the storyline.
46:31
I hate the focus.
46:32
You know how I feel about this.
46:33
So she has her own category which is the trash category so it can give stale biscuit
46:38
its rightful person.
46:41
Can we retroactively add Madison to the trash category?
46:44
Yes please do.
46:45
Yeah so stale biscuit truly stale personality people.
46:51
Can I guess?
46:51
Yes.
46:53
Simon.
46:55
I can totally see why you would put him in there but surprisingly he's actually not.
46:59
I don't think you'll be able to guess who my stale biscuit is.
47:02
Do you want to get it?
47:04
Guess again?
47:08
Simon's too funny to put him in a stale biscuit.
47:10
He did have that great line.
47:12
We know that's not going to do it.
47:14
Okay who if it's not Simon who is stale in this game?
47:18
Let's see.
47:18
I feel like you can argue that and I'll give you a clue she like she's not stale but I feel stale about her.
47:28
Alice?
47:29
Yeah.
47:31
She doesn't contribute anything to the storyline.
47:35
She has like high morals when she should read the room.
47:38
I'm cold.
47:39
Yeah.
47:40
Knock them down.
47:41
That's exactly what it was.
47:43
I said she's loud has high morals and ethics when normally it isn't a bad thing but like
47:48
read the room my goodness.
47:50
Who would your stale biscuit be?
47:52
My stale biscuit?
47:55
Josh.
47:56
Oh.
47:57
He does nothing.
47:58
He adds nothing.
47:59
Why is he there?
48:00
Yeah.
48:02
Kentucky scores your post game.
48:04
My favorite time.
48:06
So before we were chatting today it was going to be it was going to be.
48:11
No no no you can't base it off of that's not Marcus that's the actor.
48:15
You can't base it off of that.
48:17
Actually Marcus is my my Kentucky scorcher but now that I know I could choose from the
48:25
alternative endings I it's a close between Marcus and the Canadian border control guy.
48:33
It was going to be Jesse willing despite or Marcus despite his association with North
48:39
but then today you you dropped a very important piece of news.
48:44
It's gossip.
48:44
I don't know if we should I mean nobody's really listening so probably doesn't matter.
48:49
Other people have said it.
48:51
He's a cheater.
48:54
But Cathy that's not Marcus you can't you can't consider that in the Kentucky scorcher.
49:00
Yeah so so okay we'll stick with Marcus because I truly do like the face of Jesse Williams
49:06
but the Canadian border control guy close second.
49:09
We pull up do you have the other slides.
49:13
Oh of course I do.
49:15
I'm sharing with you now the pictures.
49:17
I can't believe you put Hank in there Leah.
49:20
What's wrong with Hank?
49:21
No I mean the age demographic.
49:23
He's older.
49:25
Yeah I thought that he would be one that the personality would get to you.
49:32
But okay here we go here are the reveals here's what I provided.
49:37
Kamski, Marcus, Hank, Gavin, Luther and Connor.
49:45
Are you ready for your notes?
49:47
Yes.
49:49
I haven't read these and I caught a glimpse.
49:52
I'm gonna try to hold it together.
49:53
Okay these all look to be based on different actors.
49:57
Number one Kamski Channing Tatum as a criminal.
50:02
Number two which is Marcus.
50:05
What did I say?
50:09
You said looks like Jesse Williams.
50:13
That was right.
50:16
Without the beautiful blue green eyes.
50:20
Number three Hank you said looks like Woody Harrelson.
50:27
That's all you gave us.
50:28
Number four is Gavin you said John Krasinski and Tom Clancy.
50:35
Number five is Luther and you said Ray Fisher.
50:40
I don't know who that is.
50:41
He's the guy from Justice League I think.
50:45
Number six is Connor.
50:48
Nicholas Gallat sign is that the guy you brought up in one of the episodes?
50:52
No I in hindsight I realized that he looked more closer to the Ansel guy.
50:57
But you continue to say he looks like him but with more schoolboyish vibes.
51:03
This picture does give off a schoolboy vibe.
51:06
Are you ready for the reveal?
51:07
I'm ready but at the same time I do want to say that had you put Beanie Connor in there
51:12
I feel like I would have automatically chose Beanie Connor.
51:16
I didn't realize you had such a thing for beanies but this is not the first time that
51:19
you've talked about a man in a beanie.
51:22
Really?
51:22
How frequent am I talking about that?
51:24
How frequent am I talking about that? And it's funny because I find Beanie Connor
51:28
a tragedy.
51:31
Here's your pick we've delayed this one.
51:33
First impressions for Blind Kentucky Scorcher though.
51:37
It'll be number four.
51:40
What?
51:41
You're lying.
51:43
Get out of here.
51:43
You're lying aren't you?
51:45
Picked Gavin.
51:47
You're lying.
51:48
How did I not pick Jesse William?
51:49
I'm glad I don't think I chose him as my cast because he is so annoying.
51:55
Get out of here.
51:56
You're lying.
51:57
That's not true.
51:59
I'm not lying.
52:00
Are you kidding me?
52:03
Are you kidding me?
52:07
What?
52:09
This is not as bad as Heavy Rain.
52:14
Okay he's not ugly though in your defense.
52:17
He looks good in this.
52:18
He's not evil looking in this like he's not having that ugly spheric or anything.
52:23
You can't blame me here.
52:24
I don't blame you but I just don't know why you weren't looking at two five and six.
52:28
I guess post-game KS who would it be?
52:32
I feel like Marcus is too attractive to the point where it's not attractive anymore.
52:37
I don't know if that makes sense.
52:38
That's the obvious answer but I feel like he's just too attractive so I feel like I
52:41
would have to say Connor.
52:43
He's got a unique face.
52:45
Also the proportions.
52:47
Oh this is disgusting.
52:49
We're getting way too into this.
52:51
The proportions of his body.
52:54
You know they were engineered to be perfect and you can tell.
53:01
I was going to say that if we do include body shape though definitely Luther.
53:07
I feel safe especially if there's a home invasion.
53:09
You know he could just pulverize anybody.
53:12
Exactly.
53:13
Last topic is the counts slash statistics.
53:17
There were two secret stats Kathy.
53:19
I don't like it.
53:21
Do you want to guess what the first one was?
53:22
I almost feel like it's a QTE.
53:26
You're correct.
53:27
I am?
53:28
That one was QTE percentage.
53:30
Yes!
53:31
Happy dance.
53:32
What though do you think my QTE percentage was?
53:36
Hint I thought I did a lot worse than this.
53:38
It's a-
53:39
And I don't want to blame the controller.
53:40
I don't want to blame the controller but this is the first game I played on PS5 and I have
53:46
to say I hate how big the PS5 controller is.
53:49
I have dainty hands.
53:51
And you did do worse?
53:53
I did better than I thought I did.
53:55
Okay I'm going to show my loyalty to you as a friend and give you like 92.1.
54:03
Close.
54:05
88.7.
54:06
I was going to guess 88 as my second one.
54:08
Okay didn't I?
54:09
Because I thought I was more confident in you.
54:14
I'm going to give you a hint about stat number two.
54:16
You're going to hate me for it but you can't possibly hate me as much as I hate myself.
54:21
Okay.
54:22
For picking this stat.
54:24
My first guess would be like how many lines North has but I feel like that's just-
54:31
You wouldn't do that.
54:32
That's a good one actually.
54:34
Yeah.
54:34
I don't think it's going to be something like a cough from Sleeping Dogs that I completely missed.
54:41
Okay here's a hint.
54:42
You made a comment about it once.
54:45
Very brief comment.
54:47
Does it apply to one character or to all?
54:51
It applies to any scene in the game.
54:54
It's like how many times- I think it's how many times something showed up.
54:58
How many outfit changes?
55:01
I think that's going to be my guess.
55:02
No.
55:05
How many is correct but it's how many birds- what?
55:13
How many birds are in the game?
55:16
Like just Merlin right?
55:17
Like what do you mean birds?
55:21
No.
55:22
I counted every bird in the game.
55:25
Are you kidding me?
55:26
I counted every bird in the game.
55:28
I counted every bird in the game.
55:32
I'm not kidding.
55:33
We had a bird analogy.
55:34
This is why I hate myself.
55:37
Like I can't even remember if there's any birds like we- besides like Merlin that and we talked
55:41
about like you don't hate all birds when bird pooped on you like that's a classic Leah line
55:46
right there.
55:47
Are we talking like flocks of birds or like single birds?
55:50
Any county.
55:51
Individual birds within a margin of error because there are a couple scenes where you
55:57
have to be an android to count them all accurately but I went over them multiple times to get the
56:02
most accurate count in slow motion.
56:04
I can't believe you did that Leah.
56:07
I'm- I told you that I hate myself for doing this to myself.
56:12
Oh my god I don't think there's a lot of birds.
56:15
It's raining and snowing out there.
56:17
I'd say it has to be under a hundred.
56:20
It's like 28?
56:23
Just a little off.
56:24
I counted 348.
56:27
What?
56:28
Wait what?
56:30
Hold on.
56:32
Hold on.
56:38
I can't do- I can't breathe.
56:40
I can't with you.
56:47
You got the eight part right.
56:49
I can't breathe right now.
56:58
I can't believe you counted over 300 birds.
57:02
But don't forget about the two robo birds and the one stuffed ostrich.
57:09
I'm like crying right now.
57:11
Oh my god Leah you counted over 300 birds.
57:15
I counted every bird.
57:18
Although in doing so I noticed a really cool detail in the game.
57:21
As you know we start like fall right?
57:24
Late fall.
57:26
There's birds around.
57:27
As we progress into winter no more birds.
57:30
They all flew south for the winter and I have to commend the game designers
57:36
for including bird migratory patterns in this game.
57:40
That's insane because all I can remember recently is that there's no birds but how the hell did they fit 300 birds in the beginning?
57:49
There's 40 in one.
57:51
What?
57:51
One little clip in the title scene and also the android's apartment where he's feeding all the birds.
57:57
That was the biggest pain in my ass.
58:00
And I knew full well about that scene when I chose birds as the stat.
58:05
I can't believe you counted birds.
58:09
This is why I'm behind on editing.
58:12
Yeah.
58:13
And the amount of times I got gaslit by a leaf in the wind.
58:20
Unbelievable.
58:22
With that good game good guesses.
58:25
We'll see you next week for a new game.
58:30
And look out for bird poop as you're crossing the streets.
58:34
I don't know how to end this now.
58:35
Okay with that I'm closing us out.
58:37
Thanks for listening.
58:39
Bye.
58:40
Audacity on one.
58:41
Three, two, one.
58:42
Thank you for listening and don't forget to send in any questions, comments, or game suggestions.
58:46
You can find all our contact info on our website replayreviewspod.com or contact us directly through our site.
58:52
Do we completely miss something?
58:54
Are we way off the mark or you just want us to take a deeper look at anything from the game?
58:58
We'll tackle any topics you all want to hear in our season wrap-up episode.
59:02
We also have a reddit where we discuss anything we're curious about.
59:05
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking.
59:08
Think you can guess which game is up next based on this obscure quote?
59:12
Message us on Instagram or contact us through our website to see if you're right.
59:16
Our theme music is Condemned by Eggy Toast.
59:19
They'll play you out and we'll be back next week with a new game.