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The (Weirdly Crooked) History of the Food Pyramid · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our
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Speaker 1: super producer, Mr Max Williams. Yeah, Noel, right there, I'm
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Speaker 1: I'm Ben. The three of us are coming in hot
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Speaker 1: off of an exploration of breakfast Cereal which was went
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Speaker 1: in some pretty interesting, uh interesting directions, I'd say, But
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Speaker 1: we also mentioned something that I think has fascinated all
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Speaker 1: of us. In that episode, we talked about a thing
1:00
Speaker 1: that many of our fellow Ridiculous Historians may have grown
1:04
Speaker 1: up with, the food pyramid scheme. WHOA, No, this is
1:11
Speaker 1: like on like posters in gym class. You know this
1:15
Speaker 1: is uh, this is this is to be believed fully right,
1:18
Speaker 1: there's the science behind it. Also, I mean, why can
1:21
Speaker 1: you believe something that calls itself a pyramid when it's
1:23
Speaker 1: clearly a triangle. It is not a three D shape.
1:27
Speaker 1: It is a triangle. It is a food triangle. You
1:30
Speaker 1: think that came up in the pitch meeting about the thing,
1:32
Speaker 1: like pyramid just sounds sexier than triangle. Also, do you
1:36
Speaker 1: think the Illuminati had anything to do with it? Just
1:39
Speaker 1: just a thought, just putting that out there, all the
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Speaker 1: sweet stuffs at the top where the unblinking eye goes.
1:44
Speaker 1: That's right, that's where the stuff belongs, babe at the time. Yeah,
1:48
Speaker 1: because you know it's the pyramid is you know, you
1:52
Speaker 1: think of the things at the top being better inherently,
1:55
Speaker 1: but that's not the case with a pyramid or a triangle.
2:00
Speaker 1: This isn't really a traditional hierarchy in terms of like
2:03
Speaker 1: a list, you know, where the lowest is the worst,
2:05
Speaker 1: in the top is the best. It's sort of inverted
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Speaker 1: from that in them. Yeah, it really is. The You
2:12
Speaker 1: have almost doubtlessly heard of this. If you live in
2:15
Speaker 1: the West, definitely, if you live in the US up
2:18
Speaker 1: until two thousand and eleven, up until the early two
2:21
Speaker 1: thousand's really the You would be a school kid and
2:25
Speaker 1: you be presented with this thing that is yet basically
2:29
Speaker 1: a triangle, and it's got six sections to your point, well,
2:33
Speaker 1: at the very bottom, the biggest part of the whole
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Speaker 1: shebang is bread, cereal, rice, and pasta. And you're you're
2:42
Speaker 1: you're recommended a number of servings you should have each day.
2:46
Speaker 1: So the food pyramid says you should mostly be eating
2:50
Speaker 1: this stuff at the bottom six to eleven servings per day,
2:54
Speaker 1: and then it goes up to uh, vegetables and fruit
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Speaker 1: together there like the next two blocks. Right, that's right,
3:01
Speaker 1: And we you know, we we certainly talked about this
3:03
Speaker 1: on the cereal episode. How the kind of base of
3:06
Speaker 1: the pyramid is bread, cereal, rice and pasta and all that.
3:08
Speaker 1: Then we have veggies and fruits. But also we know
3:11
Speaker 1: that fruits contain kind of a lot of sugar sometimes,
3:15
Speaker 1: so best to sort of temper that, maybe veggies should
3:18
Speaker 1: be that whole section, and then fruits should maybe be
3:22
Speaker 1: a little bit under sweets. I don't know, like I
3:25
Speaker 1: think that think certain opinions are divided on whether the
3:29
Speaker 1: sugar and fruit is like better than the sugar like
3:32
Speaker 1: you know, refined sugar things like breakfast cereal. Yeah, no,
3:37
Speaker 1: that's the thing what we're what we're saying now may
3:40
Speaker 1: strike you as a bit off if you if you
3:43
Speaker 1: really think through if the number of servings recommended versus
3:47
Speaker 1: the stuff that you would actually eat every day or
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Speaker 1: the stuff your doctor nutritionists may have told you to follow.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, you go above fruit and vegetables, and then
3:58
Speaker 1: you get to milk, yogurt and cheese as well. As
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Speaker 1: meat of any kind, and then beans, eggs, and nuts,
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Speaker 1: the proteins, those are only two to three servings each.
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Speaker 1: And then at the very very top with the illuminati,
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Speaker 1: I you've got fat, oils and sweets. I'm just gonna
4:18
Speaker 1: be a hundred percent honest with you, guys. I have
4:23
Speaker 1: not ever probably followed this. Yeah, I don't know how.
4:28
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the serving. Also, we know serving
4:31
Speaker 1: sizes in and of themselves are a little problematic because
4:35
Speaker 1: they used to not really be as much of a
4:38
Speaker 1: thing in terms of accuracy, you know, And now I
4:42
Speaker 1: think a lot of these companies have sort of been
4:43
Speaker 1: pressured maybe not pressured in three where it's probably the law,
4:47
Speaker 1: into having accurate serving sizes. So while you might think
4:51
Speaker 1: that like pot pie would be one serving, it's actually
4:55
Speaker 1: two servings. And those things are about thousand calories of
4:58
Speaker 1: those those chicken pop if you eat the whole thing.
5:01
Speaker 1: So but also it's it's it's a it's like a
5:03
Speaker 1: personal pan pizza, right, Like that's it's for me. I'm
5:07
Speaker 1: supposed to. I had an entire one of them a
5:10
Speaker 1: few nights ago, and I don't feel bad at all
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Speaker 1: about it. I've time Your days are numbered macks. Your
5:15
Speaker 1: days are numbered. So what's strange about this is for
5:18
Speaker 1: many people, this is one of those things you didn't
5:22
Speaker 1: question growing up, right, depending on how old you were,
5:25
Speaker 1: this was simply presented to you as a fact all
5:29
Speaker 1: throughout grade school. And one way we can get into
5:33
Speaker 1: this is with some excellent research by you, Max, where
5:37
Speaker 1: you cite Jesse Rhodes over Smithsonian Magazine who said the following,
5:43
Speaker 1: some of the information I learned in school isn't holding
5:45
Speaker 1: up so well. Pluto's no longer a planet. Basics of
5:49
Speaker 1: CPR have been heavily revised. So I am now the
5:52
Speaker 1: absolute last person went around an invented an emergency. And
5:55
Speaker 1: now the U. S d A is raising the food
5:58
Speaker 1: Pyramid to make way for a new visual model to
6:02
Speaker 1: help Americans figure out how to plan a balanced diet.
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Speaker 1: Is that out yet? What does the new visual model
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Speaker 1: look like? It certainly didn't get the same press support
6:11
Speaker 1: that the that the food pyramid did. Oh yeah, it's
6:13
Speaker 1: called my plate and no already had your socks blown off.
6:17
Speaker 1: It's been out for twelve years. Yeah, well eleven and
6:20
Speaker 1: a half years. Isn't that funny? Though? I mean, it
6:23
Speaker 1: doesn't really surprise me. But I guess you know what
6:25
Speaker 1: we've already said with all of the posters and just
6:28
Speaker 1: you know, the Presidential Fitness Challenge and things like that,
6:31
Speaker 1: that we grew up with the food pyramid, which is
6:33
Speaker 1: always front and center and to your point, been like
6:36
Speaker 1: almost presented just to be believed as facts because of
6:39
Speaker 1: course the government put it out so the government wouldn't
6:42
Speaker 1: lie to us. Right there, they're they're they're like completely
6:44
Speaker 1: neutral and uh in terms of our health, right, they
6:47
Speaker 1: want us to thrive and live our best lives. Yeah,
6:50
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I wish I could say,
6:53
Speaker 1: I wish I could agree, and I love I think
6:55
Speaker 1: we both know where this is going. It reminds me
6:59
Speaker 1: that this is the this is the same country where
7:02
Speaker 1: growing up there would just be ads for milk, just
7:06
Speaker 1: trade groups saying you should drink milk, not a specific
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Speaker 1: kind of milk, not a brand. They just the food
7:13
Speaker 1: industry was involved. And that's what we see here, right,
7:16
Speaker 1: because we know diet is not a one size fits
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Speaker 1: all thing. We know that the food pyramid, which was
7:23
Speaker 1: introduced and it's uh dominant form in the food pyramid,
7:29
Speaker 1: forget some things. It forgets that there are good and
7:32
Speaker 1: bad carbs, good and bad fats. It's a little bit compromised,
7:38
Speaker 1: you could say, by lobbying groups in the world of
7:42
Speaker 1: cattle and dairy. Right, of course, those are massive interests.
7:47
Speaker 1: I mean the whole beef It's What's for Dinner campaign,
7:51
Speaker 1: you know, our milk exactly, all of that stuff. They
7:55
Speaker 1: were ubiquitous and was very little actual data behind them.
8:00
Speaker 1: It was all just kind of like campaigns to get
8:03
Speaker 1: people on board with these massive industrial interests, you know.
8:07
Speaker 1: I mean this is like factory farming type stuff. These
8:10
Speaker 1: are legacy operations. Not to mention, do y'all remember when
8:14
Speaker 1: they started putting soda machines and schools like that was
8:18
Speaker 1: a kind of controversial thing at the time, that it
8:20
Speaker 1: didn't stop them from happening. I distinctly remember being in
8:23
Speaker 1: high school and you could get surge, which was, you know,
8:27
Speaker 1: the amount of sugar and caffeine and it's like it
8:30
Speaker 1: puts Mountain Dew to shame. There was even something called Josta.
8:34
Speaker 1: I don't even think they make it anymore, but it
8:35
Speaker 1: was Josta with guarana and it had like a like
8:39
Speaker 1: a like a panther on the on the on the label,
8:42
Speaker 1: and it was this kind of like supplemented jen sing
8:46
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Nobody talks about Josta with Guarana anymore
8:49
Speaker 1: because it wasn't good and it's not like the kids
8:53
Speaker 1: that were buying the stuff. We're being policed. You've had
8:56
Speaker 1: too much soda, little Johnny. No, it was just it
8:58
Speaker 1: was a commercial interest being inserted into the schools, and
9:04
Speaker 1: Josta did make a little bit of come of a comeback.
9:07
Speaker 1: By the way, it is in the Disney Plus series Loki,
9:11
Speaker 1: if you want to check it out. They remember Johnston
9:13
Speaker 1: at this This is true, and people would pay a
9:15
Speaker 1: lot of money to for those sodas right there, would
9:18
Speaker 1: be more expensive than your average non school based vending machine.
9:23
Speaker 1: So yeah, financial interests were definitely involved in some of
9:28
Speaker 1: the decisions here that were presented as fact. So you
9:32
Speaker 1: could argue the food Pyramid has it something like a
9:35
Speaker 1: conspiracy in its origin story. But let's let's talk about that.
9:39
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the origin. So the U s d
9:48
Speaker 1: A back in the day formed their first dietary guidance
9:52
Speaker 1: for Americans based on a farmer's bulletin that was written
9:57
Speaker 1: by a guy named wo at Water in eighteen ninety four.
10:03
Speaker 1: At Water, who worked for the Office of Experiments Stations
10:08
Speaker 1: in the U. S d. A. Right, sounds completely above board, right,
10:12
Speaker 1: How big is that? What do you do for a
10:14
Speaker 1: living sir? Well, baby, I like to experiment, Yeah, stations
10:21
Speaker 1: at stations. Uh, he said, Okay, I'm going to figure
10:25
Speaker 1: out diets. But his diet was, uh, specifically for American males.
10:31
Speaker 1: He said, We're gonna look at the ideal level of protein, carbohydrate, fat,
10:37
Speaker 1: and mineral matter, specifically ash that these growing boys need. Yeah,
10:43
Speaker 1: Noll's making the perfect face for that. Yeah. He said
10:46
Speaker 1: that went in at the end, like as a byproduct
10:49
Speaker 1: of Yeah. Well, I mean I know that ash can
10:54
Speaker 1: be a good like nutrient rich thing for for looking
10:59
Speaker 1: for soil. Yeah, of course, are you not eating enough ash? I?
11:03
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never really thought about it as
11:05
Speaker 1: as part of my my nutritional portfolio until this exact minute. Um.
11:09
Speaker 1: But specifically, we're talking also about minerals and vitamins like iron,
11:13
Speaker 1: vitamin C, calcium and all of that stuff. And as
11:16
Speaker 1: we know and discussed in the serial episode, some of
11:20
Speaker 1: these things became kind of like buzz terms, you know,
11:23
Speaker 1: like your daily allowance, you know of vitamins, not allowance. Uh,
11:27
Speaker 1: it's it's a necessity. You want x amount of vitamin
11:30
Speaker 1: C and UH and calcium in your daily diet, and you, boy,
11:34
Speaker 1: how do you can achieve that with one bowl of
11:37
Speaker 1: Captain crunch or ash or ash. Uh. Yeah, it's weird
11:42
Speaker 1: because he says ash. We think because like like you
11:46
Speaker 1: were saying nol at this point in time, there were
11:49
Speaker 1: a lot of specific minerals of vitamins that science didn't
11:53
Speaker 1: know about that and they hadn't been able to pin
11:56
Speaker 1: down those culprits. Uh. So, well, it's fast forward. The
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Speaker 1: first complete U s D. A Food Guide Food for
12:04
Speaker 1: Young Children, is written by a nutritionist named Carolyn Hunt,
12:08
Speaker 1: and it comes out in nineteen sixteen. I think this
12:11
Speaker 1: is where we start to see the predecessors of the
12:15
Speaker 1: food pyramid. Yeah, like instead of you know, talking about
12:18
Speaker 1: minerals that we're talking more about food stuffs like milk
12:22
Speaker 1: and meats, cereals, grains, pasta, you know, vegetables and fruits,
12:27
Speaker 1: fats and fatty foods, sugars and other foods that are
12:31
Speaker 1: high in sugar um. The food guide that we're in
12:36
Speaker 1: question here was followed up in nineteen seventeen by Specific
12:39
Speaker 1: dietary recommendations. And I think this is maybe when we
12:43
Speaker 1: started really hearing these referred to as food groups, because
12:46
Speaker 1: that's also a thing I remember from health class growing up,
12:49
Speaker 1: is talking about how important the food groups are. Yeah. Yeah,
12:52
Speaker 1: it's this is where we were taught that foods rolling
12:57
Speaker 1: clicks and you have to be care of all which
13:00
Speaker 1: clicks you mess with. Uh. Yeah, the there are these
13:03
Speaker 1: five groups, right. Um, there's a little bit of change
13:08
Speaker 1: over time, but basically they're the same groups that will
13:11
Speaker 1: later end up in the food pyramid. In nineteen seventeen,
13:14
Speaker 1: the very next year, there is a publication called how
13:18
Speaker 1: to Select Foods and it is full of dietary recommendations
13:24
Speaker 1: based on this five food group theory. In the nineteen thirties,
13:29
Speaker 1: of course, the depression comes along. Life is absolutely terrible
13:33
Speaker 1: for most people living in the country, and a lot
13:36
Speaker 1: of people are trying to survive intense economic hardship, a
13:41
Speaker 1: lot of privation. You know, you could say, hey, here
13:45
Speaker 1: are the food groups all the live long day, but
13:47
Speaker 1: the reality is a lot of people can't afford to
13:51
Speaker 1: eat healthy and this definitely influenced diet advice. Yeah, I mean,
13:55
Speaker 1: they maybe wouldn't have access to certain types of produce
13:58
Speaker 1: or they wouldn't have access you he knows what we
14:00
Speaker 1: would maybe considered today certain areas being called food deserts.
14:04
Speaker 1: But this is sort of twofold that there was like
14:07
Speaker 1: a lot of non arable lands, you know, because of
14:10
Speaker 1: the dust bowl and agriculture becoming increasingly difficult because of
14:14
Speaker 1: droughts and in certain parts of the country. So yeah,
14:16
Speaker 1: you literally wouldn't have access to that. So it was
14:18
Speaker 1: all about just kind of getting your calories in so
14:21
Speaker 1: that you could survive. I mean, I always think of, uh,
14:24
Speaker 1: you know, there's a really heartbreaking scene in the Grapes
14:27
Speaker 1: of Wrath where a grown adult is I think, like
14:32
Speaker 1: drinking breast milk from from somebody, you know, because that
14:36
Speaker 1: was the only way they could actually get sustenance. It's yeah,
14:40
Speaker 1: it's the harrowing, right, and this is where we start
14:44
Speaker 1: to see food economist Wait and so nine getting very
14:49
Speaker 1: terrible time. Hazel Steebling is a food economist working for
14:56
Speaker 1: the U. S d A. And she develops food plans
15:00
Speaker 1: that are specifically meant to be cheap. There they're supposed
15:05
Speaker 1: to be um tiered in terms of cost. This will
15:09
Speaker 1: help you shop for food, you know, or this is,
15:13
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at it as you get
15:15
Speaker 1: to the lower cost there's an emphasis on being able
15:18
Speaker 1: to grow your own vegetables right to to avoid having
15:22
Speaker 1: to spend money you don't have at the grocery store,
15:26
Speaker 1: and they give you twelve major food groups and it's
15:31
Speaker 1: like a week by week thing. It's it's pretty interesting.
15:34
Speaker 1: I've seen um similar stuff honestly, in like survival advice,
15:40
Speaker 1: like here's the basic food you need to survive in
15:43
Speaker 1: the woods when you're camping. Well, because a lot of
15:46
Speaker 1: this stuff, you know, at the end of the day
15:48
Speaker 1: is a luxury, you know, to to be able to
15:51
Speaker 1: choose to eat healthy and to have a variety of
15:55
Speaker 1: food stuffs in your diet as opposed to just like
15:58
Speaker 1: eating neutral loaf for some sort of like bar that
16:01
Speaker 1: just gives you, you know, the bare essentials of what
16:03
Speaker 1: a human body needs to survive. Oh and you know
16:07
Speaker 1: what we got. We put our cards before our fats here.
16:12
Speaker 1: Sorry everybody. Uh. The U s d A is is
16:15
Speaker 1: the short name for the United States Department of Agriculture.
16:19
Speaker 1: Just the case that isn't clear if everybody thought we
16:21
Speaker 1: were saying, you know, the uniform stressful diet of uniform
16:28
Speaker 1: stressful diet adherents. No, it's it's agriculture anyway. So World
16:33
Speaker 1: War two starts. We're out of the depression, but now
16:36
Speaker 1: there's a huge war and countries are all across the
16:41
Speaker 1: board kind of trying to keep their citizens healthy and
16:46
Speaker 1: give them good advice while also knowing that everybody is
16:51
Speaker 1: having a tough time. Again, this is the era of
16:54
Speaker 1: war rationing. Right. In some parts of the world, you
16:56
Speaker 1: have coupons that allow you to buy stuff and only
17:00
Speaker 1: certain amounts. Had a McCloud in writing for Smoky Mountain
17:05
Speaker 1: News and you found this one. Max notes that the
17:08
Speaker 1: food pyramid, as we recognize it, was born out of hardship,
17:14
Speaker 1: and you can tell, Hannah argues, because there are some
17:18
Speaker 1: things that are just confusing the way that they're grouped.
17:21
Speaker 1: That's right. The US Department of Agriculture U s d
17:24
Speaker 1: A released the Basic Seven Food Guide, so we're down
17:28
Speaker 1: from twelve now to seven, with the tagline US needs
17:32
Speaker 1: a strong eat the Basic seven every day. And this
17:37
Speaker 1: grouping actually wasn't awful, like it had a little bit
17:41
Speaker 1: of of nuts and bolts kind of sense behind it.
17:44
Speaker 1: Raw cabbage somehow, though, ended up in the oranges, tomatoes,
17:48
Speaker 1: and grapefruit section, um, instead of in the vegetables or
17:52
Speaker 1: the green and yellow vegetables section, which is a little odd.
17:56
Speaker 1: Also in the same way that I think it's odd
17:58
Speaker 1: that that a tomato is a fruit, although it is
18:00
Speaker 1: that for scientific reasons, because of the seeds and all
18:03
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, you just thinking about that first thing
18:05
Speaker 1: in the morning. You're like, I could have my orange juice,
18:07
Speaker 1: I can have like grape fruit juice. I could have
18:10
Speaker 1: my cabbage juice. Mmmmmmm. I can't wait till someone figures
18:15
Speaker 1: out a cereal that combines grain and cabbage. Well, if
18:20
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, cabbage was also a very hardy crop
18:23
Speaker 1: and uh and very you know, um contained a lot
18:26
Speaker 1: of those essential vitamins and minerals and calories. So I
18:30
Speaker 1: mean it was you know, here in Atlanta, we've got
18:33
Speaker 1: a neighborhood called Cabbage Town and that's because a lot
18:36
Speaker 1: of farmers would sell their cabbages there during times of
18:40
Speaker 1: economic difficulty, and it was something that the average folks
18:43
Speaker 1: could afford. Is that really white cabbage towns name that?
18:47
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool? Hey, Like, can I get the more?
18:50
Speaker 1: You know? Perfect? Thank you, thank you? Noel. I learned
18:58
Speaker 1: something today. Yes, the idea is. The idea here is
19:05
Speaker 1: to incentivize people also to eat things that they might
19:10
Speaker 1: not normally eat, so that we can get around some
19:13
Speaker 1: of the constraints of war. The very first quote unquote
19:18
Speaker 1: food pyramid doesn't really come from World War two, though,
19:22
Speaker 1: it comes from the nineteen seventies and another time of
19:28
Speaker 1: economic hardship, not in the US but in Sweden. Here
19:32
Speaker 1: in the US, a lot of people see Sweden as
19:34
Speaker 1: a pretty expensive country, and it is in some ways.
19:39
Speaker 1: So they were fighting high food prices back in the seventies,
19:43
Speaker 1: and so the government went to the National Board of
19:46
Speaker 1: Health and Welfare and said, all right, we need your
19:51
Speaker 1: help with this. We need to help people navigate this
19:55
Speaker 1: runaway inflation, these food prices. So this group, this National Board,
19:59
Speaker 1: the Social Steels, they say, all right, here's how we're
20:02
Speaker 1: going to divide this. We're gonna talk about basic and
20:05
Speaker 1: supplementary foods. Basic foods are the things you have to
20:10
Speaker 1: eat to survive. Supplementary foods are things that provide vitamins
20:15
Speaker 1: and minerals that your basic stuff doesn't. Right, Um, So,
20:20
Speaker 1: so you know, supplementary, just like the word uh means
20:24
Speaker 1: typically things that are not absolute necessities, you know, to survival,
20:28
Speaker 1: perhaps maybe a little bit more of a luxury. But
20:31
Speaker 1: it was Anne britt aggn stature agg Stator who worked
20:36
Speaker 1: for the cooperative fur Bundit, which is a Swedish coop
20:40
Speaker 1: union um representing retail and grocery workers. It was her
20:46
Speaker 1: who pushed the idea to the next level, uh and
20:49
Speaker 1: gave it kind of a bit of a codification. So
20:52
Speaker 1: this essentially took the ideas that the social Steelson had
20:58
Speaker 1: about basic food groups to the next level by developing
21:01
Speaker 1: the idea of a proportional model, you know, sort of
21:05
Speaker 1: a hierarchy something of a triangle, you know, with the
21:08
Speaker 1: most important stuff on the bottom, and then as it
21:11
Speaker 1: progressed and tapered to a point, you'd see the less
21:15
Speaker 1: uh necessary foods represented. So it was kind of almost
21:20
Speaker 1: like a hierarchy of needs kind of situation where it's like, Okay,
21:24
Speaker 1: you're fine if you just stick to these big ones
21:27
Speaker 1: on the bottom, and as it goes upward, you're not
21:29
Speaker 1: gonna die from from malnutrition if you maybe don't have
21:34
Speaker 1: enough of these. Yeah, and this really is a master shrow.
21:38
Speaker 1: This is a great idea because most people in the
21:42
Speaker 1: world then as now are not nutritionists us included. So
21:47
Speaker 1: having that visual representation makes the information uh hate the
21:52
Speaker 1: accidental wordplay here easy to digest. You know, you can
21:56
Speaker 1: look at it and you can your brain can instaly
22:00
Speaker 1: intuitively understand I should have more of this, I should
22:04
Speaker 1: have less of this. It's not perfect, but it's a
22:07
Speaker 1: really cool idea and props to you on a brit
22:11
Speaker 1: So the Swedish public learns about this shortly thereafter. It's
22:17
Speaker 1: published in an annual magazine by that Swedish cooperative union
22:22
Speaker 1: and the headline is good wholesome food at reasonable prices.
22:27
Speaker 1: They also had a little bit of tention. At this point.
22:30
Speaker 1: The Swedish government tried to distance itself from the pyramid
22:35
Speaker 1: to introduce something called a dietary circle, the old circle
22:41
Speaker 1: versus the pyramid and arguments to this day. Yeah yeah.
22:46
Speaker 1: And the the thing was this circular model could show
22:52
Speaker 1: you what foods were important, but unlike the pyramid, it
22:56
Speaker 1: didn't explicitly show you how much of each type of
22:59
Speaker 1: food should be consumed. Anyway, this was the first of
23:05
Speaker 1: its kind and it was a triangle or a pyramid
23:08
Speaker 1: in shape, but it was not not the one that
23:13
Speaker 1: you might know and love from the US. There were
23:17
Speaker 1: some very different aspects of these the one from the US,
23:22
Speaker 1: the westernized model. It's different not so much because there
23:26
Speaker 1: was a better understanding nutrition health over time. It's like
23:30
Speaker 1: we tease the beginning, this model was affected by lobbyists,
23:34
Speaker 1: by interest groups in big agriculture, in the food industry. Uh,
23:39
Speaker 1: they were through willing to throw millions of dollars into
23:43
Speaker 1: how their products were represented here. Well, Ben, you might
23:48
Speaker 1: have a different perspective or more nuanced, but like the U.
23:51
Speaker 1: S Department of Agriculture, it is a regulatory body, but
23:55
Speaker 1: it was originally, you know, established to promote agriculture and
23:59
Speaker 1: to make sure that farmers and farms had what they
24:03
Speaker 1: needed because this is an important part of the you know,
24:06
Speaker 1: um economic portfolio of the country, not to mention um,
24:12
Speaker 1: making sure that citizens had what they needed to survive
24:15
Speaker 1: and to eat. So it makes sense that they would
24:18
Speaker 1: kind of from the start have been in bed with
24:21
Speaker 1: big business rep interest that represented agriculture when we moved
24:27
Speaker 1: from like a more agrarian economy to something that that
24:31
Speaker 1: was really represented by more corporate kind of structures. Yeah,
24:35
Speaker 1: and you know that's well said. And also I would
24:38
Speaker 1: add that we don't want to demonize these groups entirely.
24:42
Speaker 1: The reality is they need to have they need to
24:46
Speaker 1: exist because this way you can enforce some uniform standards, right,
24:51
Speaker 1: some safety practices, some higiatic stuff there. There is a
24:55
Speaker 1: good reason for them to be there. But also they
24:58
Speaker 1: are private industries, so their primary thing is going to
25:01
Speaker 1: be profit year over year. The U s d A's
25:05
Speaker 1: Food Guide comes out UH mid nineteen eighties. It's called
25:09
Speaker 1: a Pattern for Daily Food Choices UH and it had
25:13
Speaker 1: been used for a while, but people didn't know a
25:17
Speaker 1: lot about it. So it's when the eggheads in the
25:22
Speaker 1: US decide, all right, we're gonna we're gonna do what
25:25
Speaker 1: the Swedish did. We're gonna make a graphic presentation of
25:28
Speaker 1: our food guide, and we're gonna try to easily show
25:32
Speaker 1: people three things. Variety, how much different stuff should I eat? Proportionality,
25:38
Speaker 1: how much of it should I eat in comparison to
25:40
Speaker 1: other groups? And moderation when should have pumped the brakes
25:45
Speaker 1: on all that sweet sweet sugar. And they also arrived
25:49
Speaker 1: at a pyramid. It just sounds good, it sounds official,
25:51
Speaker 1: it sounds like a plan, but it's also pr because
25:57
Speaker 1: on the one hand. Yeah, they're putting out these guys
26:00
Speaker 1: that they have plausible deniability when they also green light
26:03
Speaker 1: soda machines and schools. You know what I mean. Now,
26:08
Speaker 1: I mean I like a Coca Cola Classic as a treat,
26:10
Speaker 1: but I mean, I you know, kind of cut that
26:12
Speaker 1: of my life in favor of you know, less caloric
26:16
Speaker 1: sugary fizzy drinks. You know, I'm coffee, but I like
26:20
Speaker 1: the you know, lacroise of the world. And obviously we're
26:23
Speaker 1: living in the time now where sugary drinks have a
26:27
Speaker 1: bad rap, you know, for good reasons. So a lot
26:29
Speaker 1: of those companies have had to diversify and do more
26:32
Speaker 1: like kind of you know, uh, low calorie fizzy water
26:35
Speaker 1: kind of alternatives. Yeah, this is um, this is a
26:39
Speaker 1: good point. No, not everybody is a fan of Laka
26:43
Speaker 1: or Montane or whatever, but the lacroix. But the you know,
26:47
Speaker 1: I like, what's the old joke, the lemon flavored saltzer
26:52
Speaker 1: water sounds like you're walking down a hallway and someone
26:56
Speaker 1: in another room goes lemon like like this, it's more
27:00
Speaker 1: for the fizz. Yeah, I've heard described as somebody shouting
27:04
Speaker 1: the name of a fruit from the next room. My
27:06
Speaker 1: girlfriend thinks that, uh like flavored lacroix and stuff taste
27:10
Speaker 1: like television static. I don't. Yeah, especially the citrus ones
27:15
Speaker 1: for some reason, it sparks me Snastasia. Have you guys
27:18
Speaker 1: had the lemon cello le cello? Yes, it's I don't like,
27:24
Speaker 1: it's way too much. I mean, I I like just
27:26
Speaker 1: plain soda water, So like if I had one with
27:28
Speaker 1: a little bit of lemon, that's good to me. But
27:30
Speaker 1: like that's like, oh god, what is this? Yeah, I'm
27:33
Speaker 1: I'm like, give me a good iced coffee, you know, uh,
27:38
Speaker 1: And I'll take a I'll take as soda as a
27:40
Speaker 1: treat because I associate them with going to the movies,
27:43
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's where you get the
27:44
Speaker 1: popcorn in the soda and make the bad food decisions.
27:47
Speaker 1: But do you ever put Eminem's in your popcorn? That's
27:50
Speaker 1: the thing people apparently do. Yeah, I do it all
27:51
Speaker 1: the time, right on. I mean what I eat popcorn?
27:55
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't know that you were a monstrosity. Man,
27:59
Speaker 1: m It's is good. I like Reese's pieces, and a
28:03
Speaker 1: lot of people just realized Reese's pieces or Reese's pieces.
28:06
Speaker 1: I like to call them contain no chocolate. It's basically
28:09
Speaker 1: just just peanut butter with a thin candy shell. And
28:12
Speaker 1: the only reason they're so famous is because Eminem's didn't
28:16
Speaker 1: work out for Et the Extraterrestrial. They're supposed to be
28:19
Speaker 1: Eminem's originally product placement. The hell of a drug product placement, baby. Anyway,
28:25
Speaker 1: this show is brought to you by Josta. All Right,
28:34
Speaker 1: so the Food Guide Pyramid, let's might surprise people who
28:38
Speaker 1: have grown up with it in your entire life. The
28:41
Speaker 1: Food Guide Pyramid wasn't released until nineteen ninety two, which
28:46
Speaker 1: really blew my mind right to me, it's just something
28:49
Speaker 1: that I always have known. I just assume that it
28:52
Speaker 1: has been around. It seems like a sixties thing, doesn't
28:54
Speaker 1: it kind of even design. Yeah, so there may be
28:58
Speaker 1: things where the sweeter model was presented in some textbooks
29:02
Speaker 1: or something beforehand. But the Official Food Guide Pyramid, as
29:06
Speaker 1: the u S understands it, comes out supposed to help
29:10
Speaker 1: you visualize, uh, the proportion, proportions and moderation you should
29:15
Speaker 1: be using from those dietary guidelines. It shows you the
29:18
Speaker 1: name names of the food groups and some basically clip
29:22
Speaker 1: art of what they look like like. Here is a
29:24
Speaker 1: loaf of bread. Oh that's a fish. Uh. And they're separated,
29:29
Speaker 1: you know, they're segregated throughout the pyramid. You can see,
29:33
Speaker 1: um the variety in those pictures, the little icons of
29:38
Speaker 1: what kind of food counts as a grain or a
29:40
Speaker 1: bread or a post or whatever. Then you can see
29:43
Speaker 1: proportionality because they'll give you a rough size in the
29:47
Speaker 1: pyramid and then the list servings even though you know,
29:50
Speaker 1: again as we know, serving sizes or wildly misrepresented here
29:56
Speaker 1: in in US grocery stores. Yeah, I mean, like I said,
29:59
Speaker 1: if you know where to look, you can get whatever
30:02
Speaker 1: the U s D A appropriate serving size is for
30:05
Speaker 1: a given product. But a lot of people don't dig
30:07
Speaker 1: that deep and assume that, like I can just eat
30:09
Speaker 1: the whole pot pie or eat the whole you know,
30:12
Speaker 1: lean cuisine or whatever it might be. But usually if
30:15
Speaker 1: you get a small bag of chips, even that's like
30:18
Speaker 1: two serving sizes, even though you you would assume then
30:21
Speaker 1: it's this is meant to be consumed in one sitting.
30:23
Speaker 1: This is one serving because it comes in a small bag, right,
30:26
Speaker 1: And restaurants don't help either. That's the thing that continually
30:30
Speaker 1: baffles my friends who are not from the United States.
30:34
Speaker 1: A lot of times when people visit the United States,
30:37
Speaker 1: the first thing they clock is the wide variety of
30:41
Speaker 1: food and the fact that so much food is thrown
30:44
Speaker 1: at you. Free refills are not a thing, and a
30:47
Speaker 1: lot of other parts of the world, but that that's
30:49
Speaker 1: always amazing to me as well. You know, when when
30:52
Speaker 1: I go through phases where I don't go to a
30:54
Speaker 1: bunch of restaurants, I'm still continually amazed when I realize
30:58
Speaker 1: almost any main core so I order is like two meals. Yeah,
31:02
Speaker 1: and if you go to like a fine dining place,
31:04
Speaker 1: for example, you might bulk at the serving size or
31:08
Speaker 1: like the amount of food on the plate, but if
31:10
Speaker 1: it's done well and it tastes good, you'll probably end
31:14
Speaker 1: up getting the sample more small plates and small kind
31:17
Speaker 1: of things and not walk away hungry, but also not
31:20
Speaker 1: walk away gorged, which I think, to me is the
31:23
Speaker 1: perfect meal experience. You know, I want to taste different things,
31:27
Speaker 1: have an enjoyable culinary experience, but not feel like Logi
31:32
Speaker 1: and horrible afterwards. Back because I see your eyes lighting
31:35
Speaker 1: up here. Yes, yes, yes, as Nol and Ben both No,
31:38
Speaker 1: I've spent many days tending tending a tending a table
31:44
Speaker 1: or or tending a bar. And I remember I worked
31:46
Speaker 1: at a tapas restaurant at one point, and you would
31:48
Speaker 1: have like guys, like guys come in, you know, twenties,
31:51
Speaker 1: thirties and stuff like that, and they order their food
31:52
Speaker 1: and they look their plate and they'll be just like,
31:54
Speaker 1: what is this. I'm like, it's topas mat It's supposed
31:57
Speaker 1: to be really small. You're supposed to get like five
31:58
Speaker 1: of the They're like, I thought it was topless. Where's
32:01
Speaker 1: the poll? You know, we actually worked on a concept
32:04
Speaker 1: of a place called topless tapas where all of us
32:07
Speaker 1: were topless. I mean it wasn't It wasn't not a
32:09
Speaker 1: sexual way. It's an artistic way. Every everyone everyone's topless,
32:14
Speaker 1: you know, like the cooks, the customers, everyone. Well, okay,
32:21
Speaker 1: the genius tapas is uh someone saying, hey, what if
32:25
Speaker 1: we just charged eight more dollars for this appetizer? Actually,
32:30
Speaker 1: I'm I'm being rude because that's us tapas. Tapas where
32:34
Speaker 1: they're from in Spain, are supposed to come free at
32:37
Speaker 1: wine bars to keep you drinking wine. That's where tapas
32:41
Speaker 1: come from, and their association got americanized a little bit.
32:46
Speaker 1: Tapas places can be delicious. It's just that Bill sneaks
32:49
Speaker 1: up on you. That Bill will come for you at
32:52
Speaker 1: the end. Uh. And most of my friends who love
32:55
Speaker 1: tapas love it because they go on they go on
32:58
Speaker 1: dates where some one else pays at the top of
33:01
Speaker 1: his restaurant. If I'm ever in a situation like that,
33:04
Speaker 1: my friends, I'm gonna come back radicalized. I'm gonna be like,
33:07
Speaker 1: oh my god, have you guys heard of tapas? It's amazing?
33:11
Speaker 1: What about stroop Waffles? You guys know about stroop waffles
33:14
Speaker 1: in this incredible delicacy from you know, my travels, my
33:18
Speaker 1: backpacking travels. They're not bad with coffee, are you? Are
33:24
Speaker 1: you a stroop waffle guy? I get him at Rufford
33:28
Speaker 1: Highway farmer's work. That's where you get more variety. But
33:30
Speaker 1: the joke is as they just dude that I follow
33:32
Speaker 1: on TikTok made a funny video where he did a
33:35
Speaker 1: song about some kind of brow e dude like like saying, hey,
33:39
Speaker 1: if you heard of stroop waffles? I discovered them in
33:41
Speaker 1: my travels abroad and scanned Dnavia. But the joke is
33:44
Speaker 1: that you get him at Starbucks and they've been there
33:46
Speaker 1: for you know, years. Yeah, yeah, okay, I got you.
33:51
Speaker 1: Well this this guy might be a little confused if
33:54
Speaker 1: he's trying to figure out where stroop raffle waffle fits
33:57
Speaker 1: in to the food pyramid. And that's because the food
34:00
Speaker 1: pyramid is still kind of imperfect. You would know that, uh,
34:06
Speaker 1: the very top of the pyramid is more a category
34:11
Speaker 1: of things that can be added to foods. So candy
34:15
Speaker 1: is high in sugar, that exists in the top part.
34:19
Speaker 1: That the part you're supposed to use spared lee. Uh,
34:22
Speaker 1: foods that are high and fat might fit in there too,
34:25
Speaker 1: maybe think just some really good fatty barbecue brisket. But
34:30
Speaker 1: to your point, ben, fats have gotten maligned, you know,
34:34
Speaker 1: convenient by the sugar industry. So there's this push and
34:37
Speaker 1: pull between all of these different interests, you know, in
34:40
Speaker 1: terms of like which is the good thing and which
34:42
Speaker 1: is the bad thing, and how can we kind of
34:44
Speaker 1: spin it one way or the other. But there are
34:46
Speaker 1: fats and certain amounts of fats that are good you
34:50
Speaker 1: know or quote unquote good good fats, And it's all
34:53
Speaker 1: about balance at the end of the day. That is
34:56
Speaker 1: irrespective of some sort of like pr line because you know,
35:00
Speaker 1: we know and we've done this from the start. This
35:02
Speaker 1: really is more about protecting these interests and representing them
35:07
Speaker 1: and covering the butts of the U. S d A,
35:10
Speaker 1: who also do things behind closed doors that are not
35:13
Speaker 1: very good for, you know, the health of citizens of
35:17
Speaker 1: the United States. I'm so glad you're saying that there's
35:20
Speaker 1: a reason for the structure of the pyramid. Max to
35:25
Speaker 1: this with some like unsolved mysteries, musics. There it is.
35:36
Speaker 1: It was bought and paid for. According to Louise Lights,
35:40
Speaker 1: one of the nutritionists who worked on making the Food
35:43
Speaker 1: Pyramid for the U. S d A, the original version
35:46
Speaker 1: the one nutritionist came up with looked at heck of
35:49
Speaker 1: a lot different from the one that ended up being published.
35:53
Speaker 1: The Office of the Secretary of Agriculture altered wording to
35:57
Speaker 1: emphasize processed food over fresh and whole foods, and to
36:02
Speaker 1: downplay things like lean meat or low fat dairy. They
36:07
Speaker 1: also changed the servings, which is one of the most
36:10
Speaker 1: important parts of the equation. They upped the grains and
36:14
Speaker 1: they lowered the servings of fruit and veg Right. Well,
36:16
Speaker 1: let's also not forget that the history of this thing
36:19
Speaker 1: really was one of economic scarcity. You know, of of
36:23
Speaker 1: of issues where like what's the most affordable thing, and
36:27
Speaker 1: that's why we have a bit of a health crisis
36:29
Speaker 1: or you know, I mean, I think it's mainly heading
36:31
Speaker 1: in the right direction now, but with things like you know,
36:34
Speaker 1: processed foods and and fast food and all of that
36:36
Speaker 1: stuff that is very limited lee regulated, you know, I mean,
36:42
Speaker 1: it's all about freedom of choice here in the United States.
36:44
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily about how can we make sure that
36:48
Speaker 1: people are making the right choices so that we don't
36:50
Speaker 1: have to you know, cover their diabetes treatment and have
36:55
Speaker 1: private insurance rates skyrocket, whereas in other countries, yeah, you
36:59
Speaker 1: might have slightly limited, more limited choices, but it's also
37:03
Speaker 1: more affordable to get healthcare, and like everybody gets it
37:06
Speaker 1: because there's more of a culture of moderation in other
37:10
Speaker 1: countries that doesn't really exist in this country because we're
37:13
Speaker 1: a country who's based on free market economy and choices
37:18
Speaker 1: and therefore advertising a k a. Essentially um propaganda, you know,
37:25
Speaker 1: that's making people feel good about eating these fatty, nostalgic
37:30
Speaker 1: kind of foods. You know. Yeah, this podcast brought to
37:34
Speaker 1: you by Fatty Nugs, just pure breaded nuggets of fat.
37:38
Speaker 1: A Tyson production. I don't think fatty nugs or a
37:44
Speaker 1: thing yet. I think it's something different. I think that's uh,
37:47
Speaker 1: that's different. That's a different type of agriculture here. It is.
37:51
Speaker 1: So you fast forward. Everybody knows that are problems with this.
37:54
Speaker 1: You fast forward. In two thousand and five, the food
37:58
Speaker 1: pyramid in the US is revised and they're trying to
38:02
Speaker 1: correct some things here. They get rid of some things
38:06
Speaker 1: that could have influenced people towards bad decisions. They get
38:10
Speaker 1: a redesign, and people have problems with it. People have
38:14
Speaker 1: problems that would seem weirdly specific unless you're in the industry.
38:17
Speaker 1: For instance, the Potato Boys, which is are just it's
38:21
Speaker 1: not a weird cartoonish Irish gang from the eight hundreds.
38:24
Speaker 1: It's not from Gang of of New York. It's a
38:27
Speaker 1: street term for lobbyists. The Potato Lobbying group. They were
38:31
Speaker 1: super mad because they felt that potatoes were de emphasized
38:36
Speaker 1: in the new graphics. You know, we've given you so
38:39
Speaker 1: much money, what are you doing here? And then they
38:42
Speaker 1: also said, look, if you want good nutrition advice with
38:47
Speaker 1: this thing, you can't just see it on the pyramid.
38:49
Speaker 1: You have to go to the U S d A website,
38:52
Speaker 1: because the pyramid itself now doesn't give you any information
38:56
Speaker 1: about serving importion sizes. It's just about proportion of food
39:01
Speaker 1: groups to each other. Yeah, and you know, you think,
39:03
Speaker 1: to the discerning consumer, this wouldn't be an issue. You
39:07
Speaker 1: could go and you know, do your own homework. But no,
39:10
Speaker 1: when it comes to graphics and things that are presented
39:13
Speaker 1: to the general population, simple is the key, you know,
39:18
Speaker 1: and dumbing it down is the way is the name
39:21
Speaker 1: of the game. So if you're one of these industries
39:23
Speaker 1: and you're looking at the official you know, image that's
39:26
Speaker 1: being put out and your product isn't on there represented
39:30
Speaker 1: in the actual picture, that's a real problem, you know,
39:34
Speaker 1: because no one typically is going to look past the cover,
39:38
Speaker 1: you know, the of the book they're they're not or
39:41
Speaker 1: like the blurb. But right, it's all about appearances because
39:45
Speaker 1: by large, most consumers aren't going to be savvy in
39:49
Speaker 1: that way and aren't going to look behind the scenes
39:52
Speaker 1: to actually see what else is there. Yeah, yeah, and
39:55
Speaker 1: so it's still an imperfect system. That's why in two
39:58
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, the U s d A released My Plate
40:03
Speaker 1: like my Space, but it's a plate never Yeah, I
40:07
Speaker 1: think it was past our time. Uh, and this just said, uh,
40:11
Speaker 1: let's think not in terms of what you should eat
40:14
Speaker 1: per day, but what you should eat per meal. And
40:17
Speaker 1: the plate is split up into four basically equal parts,
40:21
Speaker 1: with a side of dairy beside the plate because the
40:24
Speaker 1: milk lobby, the dairy lobbies still have a lot of
40:28
Speaker 1: a lot of cow juice juice. But also this makes
40:31
Speaker 1: me think of, like with more vegan lifestyles and vegetarian lifestyles,
40:37
Speaker 1: that doesn't really jibe with the with the food pyramid
40:40
Speaker 1: or with any of this stuff, because it seems, you know,
40:43
Speaker 1: on the surface that you're leaving out all of these
40:46
Speaker 1: important sections potentially right or that, or that it's like
40:50
Speaker 1: it's weighted incorrectly, you know. Yeah, And then you can
40:54
Speaker 1: also see that this is a continuing conversation. Something like
40:59
Speaker 1: this has to just it's good that it exists, but
41:02
Speaker 1: it's not the be all and all solution. Maybe we
41:06
Speaker 1: wrap up today's show by talking about some other countries
41:10
Speaker 1: around the world who have taken their own shot at this.
41:14
Speaker 1: I'm particularly impressed with China's because Belgium and China both
41:19
Speaker 1: hit two big things that the US Food Pyramid forgot
41:25
Speaker 1: well Belgium first of all, called it what Max said
41:27
Speaker 1: it should have been called from the start, which is
41:29
Speaker 1: the food triangle, because it's true, a a pyramid is
41:33
Speaker 1: a three dimensional object, and and it really is. It's triangle,
41:36
Speaker 1: but pyramid just sounds sex here. I do love that
41:39
Speaker 1: China did the lean into the whole, like you know,
41:42
Speaker 1: um structural aspect of it by calling it the food Pagoda,
41:47
Speaker 1: which is sort of like a Chinese pyramid in some ways.
41:51
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know it's a structure, but they Okay.
41:54
Speaker 1: So the really smart thing that they do in the
41:56
Speaker 1: Food guide Pagoda is they recommend the big miss equation,
42:00
Speaker 1: which every nutritionist will tell you if you want to
42:04
Speaker 1: live a healthy lifestyle, A big part of it is
42:07
Speaker 1: what you eat. But the other big part is moderate
42:11
Speaker 1: regular exercise. So they include recommended physical activities. Uh something
42:17
Speaker 1: works out to being like walking six thousand steps a day. Uh.
42:21
Speaker 1: And then Belgium they put water in the food pyramid.
42:26
Speaker 1: How do we forget about water? How do we water?
42:30
Speaker 1: We haven't said that one time this whole episode, shouting
42:32
Speaker 1: out like three different sodas three different times. Yeah, water
42:38
Speaker 1: is is crucial. I mean water as We've talked about
42:40
Speaker 1: many times on stuff they don't want you to know
42:43
Speaker 1: is probably going to be one of the resources that's
42:45
Speaker 1: going to cause serious division in terms of the availability
42:49
Speaker 1: of it, who controls it. And that's because you can
42:53
Speaker 1: survive without eating food for I think longer than you
42:57
Speaker 1: can without drinking water. I believe that's that's accurate. Yes,
43:01
Speaker 1: that is accurate. If you are out in terrible sideways situation,
43:07
Speaker 1: one of the first things you want to secure where
43:09
Speaker 1: is some kind of access to potable water, especially if
43:12
Speaker 1: you think you're going to be stuck there. It's just
43:15
Speaker 1: a terrible way to go. And it is kind of
43:18
Speaker 1: a bummer that we have to think about this stuff
43:20
Speaker 1: in somewhat dystopian terms sometimes. But let's go back to
43:24
Speaker 1: the start of all of this, which was the Great Depression,
43:26
Speaker 1: which is about as mad Max as our country has
43:29
Speaker 1: ever become. You know, hey, you speaking of Max mad
43:32
Speaker 1: Max just in terms of you know, Thunderdome and like
43:34
Speaker 1: a arid waste land that we you know, have to
43:37
Speaker 1: fight for our lives in order to survive. In Mad Max.
43:41
Speaker 1: What I would argue is the best Mad Max movie,
43:43
Speaker 1: uh Fury Road. It's all about control over the water
43:47
Speaker 1: supply aqua Coldah. Man, that's good. There's a I can't
43:52
Speaker 1: wait for the uh the next furiosis. Yeah, so here
43:59
Speaker 1: we go, folks, the food pyramid. It's a good idea
44:03
Speaker 1: that is also partially affected by conspiracy. Uh. And if
44:09
Speaker 1: you are more on the technical side of shapes, then
44:13
Speaker 1: you will also readily admit this is in fact a
44:16
Speaker 1: triangle unless you have a defense for why it should
44:19
Speaker 1: be called the pyramid. We'd love to hear it. Find
44:22
Speaker 1: us at Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. Thanks of course to
44:25
Speaker 1: our superproducer, Mr Max Williams. Uh noel, I just started.
44:30
Speaker 1: This makes me, honestly, this makes him want to thank
44:32
Speaker 1: a bunch of foods. I know I'm not supposed to eat.
44:35
Speaker 1: Thanks to bacon on everything, you know what I mean.
44:38
Speaker 1: Thanks to that fatty brisket. Throw some chocolate in there,
44:41
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Oh man, Yeah, fatty nugs.
44:46
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, give me a six pack of those or whatever,
44:50
Speaker 1: six piece fatty nuggets. Indeed huge, Thanks to Jonathan Strickling,
44:56
Speaker 1: the quister. He's gonna be back around and talk about
44:58
Speaker 1: something one of these days. I mean, like people, at
45:00
Speaker 1: this point, I think we're totally full of it that
45:01
Speaker 1: he has died and that we're just sort of keeping
45:04
Speaker 1: his legacy alive, promising for him to one day return.
45:07
Speaker 1: But it'll happen. It's like we were at the We're
45:11
Speaker 1: at the lawyer's office and he's reading the will and
45:14
Speaker 1: he and part of his dying wish was for us
45:17
Speaker 1: to continually act like he was about to be back
45:19
Speaker 1: on the show. That's really sweet. What's a Boogeyman without
45:23
Speaker 1: the promise that he might one day appear, you know.
45:26
Speaker 1: Thanks of course to Christopher aciotas thinks Yves Jeff Co,
45:30
Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams. Uh No, this is this is
45:33
Speaker 1: a fun one man. I'm you know what I'm I'm
45:36
Speaker 1: so thankful we get to do this. Yeah. It was
45:38
Speaker 1: also a good follow up to our serial series are
45:42
Speaker 1: Serial Serial If you will, and I think we will.
45:45
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Books. For more podcasts for
45:55
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
45:57
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Some