Latest / Drawn of History / Ibogaine Advocate Bryan Hubbard _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _596(M4A_128K)

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Ibogaine Advocate Bryan Hubbard _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _596(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is a veteran attorney and policy advocate, most
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: known for his focus on Ibogaine, a possible new treatment
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: for things like addiction and PTSD. He's currently with the
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  Speaker 1: Reed Foundation doing this research, and he's CEO of Americans
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  Speaker 1: for Ibogaine. It was a fascinating conversation. I'm grateful for
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  Speaker 1: his time. Today's guest is W. Brian Hubbard. Dude, you
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: brought me a cake today. That's nice of you. What
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  Speaker 1: is that you brought?
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  Speaker 2: My wife, who's here sitting with us, many years ago
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  Speaker 2: found this bakery in Nashville that has this chocolate ganache cake.
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  Speaker 2: I had never had it before until about three months ago.
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  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 2: And I like to eat, especially chocolate. So she introduced
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  Speaker 2: me to this chocolate cake, and it's the best chocolate
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  Speaker 2: cake I've ever had in my life. You can leave
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  Speaker 2: it sitting out on the counter for four days, and
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  Speaker 2: it tastes just as good as when you bought it.
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  Speaker 2: So we wanted to give you a touch of something
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  Speaker 2: that once you taste, you can't untaste.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, dang, yeah. Something chocolate, too, huh?
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  Speaker 2: Hell, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I might end up meeting a mixed girl after eating that.
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  Speaker 1: You just never know what could happen. But thank you.
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  Speaker 1: That's just beautiful of you guys. It's so sweet of
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  Speaker 1: you to think of me and... And thank you for coming.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for making the trip over from, you guys
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  Speaker 1: live in Kentucky.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. We live in Lexington and thank you for
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  Speaker 2: the wonderful hospitality to visit with you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. We're looking forward to it, man. I know, I
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  Speaker 1: want to talk to you. So you've had a lot
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  Speaker 1: of experience with like Ibogaine with like treatment. I know
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: there's a new laws that have been passed in Texas.
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  Speaker 1: I want to get into, into like what Ibogaine is, right?
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  Speaker 1: But first I just wanted to start with like, like
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  Speaker 1: I know that it's a plant medicine, right? And so
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  Speaker 1: what is something you've seen like Take me on a
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  Speaker 1: story of somebody that you've seen use a plant medicine,
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  Speaker 1: use Ibogaine, and an experience that they've had or a
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  Speaker 1: transformation that they've had. I just wanted to kind of
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  Speaker 1: start with an experience that you've witnessed.
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  Speaker 2: In terms of personally witnessing a transformation, my wife and I,
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  Speaker 2: we traveled down to the Ambio Clinic in Tijuana, south
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  Speaker 2: of Tijuana, in November of 2023. And the way that
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  Speaker 2: the whole transportation system occurs is we flew from Kentucky
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  Speaker 2: to San Diego, and then a shuttle took us from
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  Speaker 2: the airport in San Diego to a Sheraton nearby. And
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  Speaker 2: then the clinic sent a driver to pick me and
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  Speaker 2: her and the other folks who were coming down up
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  Speaker 2: to go there on a Monday. And when we landed
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  Speaker 2: at the airport in San Diego and went to check
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  Speaker 2: to the airport shuttle, there was a gentleman who was
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  Speaker 2: standing down about 30 feet from us and Brandon Glasser,
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  Speaker 2: if you hear me talking, you know exactly who I'm
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  Speaker 2: referring to.
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  Speaker 1: Brandon Glasser, that was his name?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. He kind of had longer hair, looked to
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  Speaker 2: be about my age. I pegged him probably somewhere in
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  Speaker 2: his mid-40s or so. He was kind of ashen. He
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  Speaker 2: kind of had that thousand-yard stare that comes with an
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  Speaker 2: individual who has experienced tremendous trauma and just the way
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  Speaker 2: that he looked, the way that he was standing, the
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  Speaker 2: way that he was looking, he looked like somebody who
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  Speaker 2: had come to the end. And my wife and I
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  Speaker 2: looked at each other and we said, I wonder if
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  Speaker 2: he's going to be getting on the shuttle with us
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  Speaker 2: on Monday morning. Well, sure enough, Monday morning comes along
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  Speaker 2: and the driver comes to pick us up and Brandon
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  Speaker 2: gets on the shuttle with us and we're sitting behind us.
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  Speaker 2: And we'd go down the road and he makes a
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  Speaker 2: couple of observations about, you know, what's bringing him to
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  Speaker 2: have an Ibogaine experience. And he talks about that he
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  Speaker 2: was in, he was a green beret and he had
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  Speaker 2: seen a lot. And his entire affect was one of just,
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  Speaker 2: this was a guy who had had it, who had
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  Speaker 2: had it with life, who.
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  Speaker 1: Had had it with himself, probably at that point himself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, that's the worst sickness.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. So we, we get to the clinic on
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  Speaker 2: Monday and, We go to a sweat lodge ceremony Monday evening, Tuesday.
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  Speaker 2: We have some group activities with two of the other
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  Speaker 2: gentlemen who were there. It was a group of five
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  Speaker 2: of us. And then we go in for Ibogaine on
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  Speaker 2: Tuesday night. And leading up to that, Brandon's affect was
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  Speaker 2: consistently just flat and what I would describe as just
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  Speaker 2: kind of checked out. So we go in on Tuesday night.
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  Speaker 2: They give us our Ibogaine. The next time we all
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  Speaker 2: see each other is on Thursday morning at the breakfast table.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't know how many audience members may be
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  Speaker 2: familiar with the Bible story of Lazarus. When Lazarus had
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  Speaker 2: passed away and Jesus called him from the grave after
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  Speaker 2: he hadn't been dead and he emerged. And they unwrapped
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  Speaker 2: his burial clothes and he was as he had always been.
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  Speaker 2: Seeing Brandon... At the breakfast table on Thursday morning is
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  Speaker 2: the closest that I will ever come to seeing what
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  Speaker 2: the people who saw Lazarus emerged from that grave saw.
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  Speaker 2: His entire affect and demeanor had been transformed. This guy
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  Speaker 2: who had the thousand-yard dead-eye stare, his eyes were clear
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  Speaker 2: and bright. All that consternation and brokenness that was on
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  Speaker 2: his face and that had drawn it in was gone.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: He was a radiant being. And when I sat down
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  Speaker 2: at the table, I just looked at him and I
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  Speaker 2: started crying. I said, dude, your transformation is unbelievable. I
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  Speaker 2: feel it. It's visible on your face. And I mean,
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  Speaker 2: it was just a miracle. It truly was a miraculous,
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  Speaker 2: beautiful transformation that had occurred over those 36 hours.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. And you could just feel it. I mean, that's
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  Speaker 1: so powerful when you can just, when you can see
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  Speaker 1: it in somebody. Yeah, because that pain of feeling, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's just like you're looking like somebody's so just, they're broken,
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  Speaker 1: they're sick of themselves, you know. They can't even, you know.
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  Speaker 1: It's like they're hunting without a gun. They just have
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  Speaker 1: that look on their face, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. And I got to saw this at scale
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  Speaker 2: at a place called Beyond that's located in Cancun. My
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  Speaker 2: wife and I went there in December of 24th. And
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  Speaker 2: there you have people coming and going at all times.
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  Speaker 2: And we were able to come in and see people
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  Speaker 2: who were coming to the door who were at death's door.
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  Speaker 2: They had tried everything in the world to resolve either
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  Speaker 2: their trauma or their addiction, and nothing had worked. And
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  Speaker 2: as people are coming, people are also going. And as
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  Speaker 2: they walk out the door to leave, there is a
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  Speaker 2: community circle to celebrate their departure home. And the people who,
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  Speaker 2: as they were leaving, were coming through the door, you
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  Speaker 2: could see and feel that same radiant transformation that we
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  Speaker 2: saw individually through Brandon Glasser. And we got to watch
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  Speaker 2: that occur over the course of a week. And you
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  Speaker 2: could see when people would come through the door, they
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  Speaker 2: were just like, what am I here for? What am
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  Speaker 2: I doing here? How did I even manage to get
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  Speaker 2: into this place? But by the time they left, they
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  Speaker 2: knew why they had been there, and it was to
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  Speaker 2: be restored.
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  Speaker 1: Amen, dude. Were you able to talk with Brandon at
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  Speaker 1: that moment? Were you able to speak with him and
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  Speaker 1: ask him how he was feeling? And was he able
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  Speaker 1: to iterate kind of what he felt like was going
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  Speaker 1: on with him?
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  Speaker 2: At the breakfast table, he explained what his journey was like.
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  Speaker 2: It was very visual. It was very spiritual. And many
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  Speaker 2: of the things that had troubled him in mind and heart,
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  Speaker 2: he found relief. He found catharsis, and he felt assurance
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  Speaker 2: that what we see on this side of life is
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  Speaker 2: only a fraction of what true ultimate reality is all about.
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  Speaker 2: We are here as earthly creatures to have an earthly experience.
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  Speaker 2: But at our essence, we are spiritual beings who have
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  Speaker 2: eternal significance. And what Ibogaine and some of the other
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  Speaker 2: plant medicines can do is affirm that reality. As an
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  Speaker 2: individual has a new beginning, to reorient their relationship with
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  Speaker 2: their self, the world, and their maker. It ain't gonna
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  Speaker 2: solve all your problems. It ain't a magic wand. But
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  Speaker 2: it essentially provides you with an opportunity to establish a
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  Speaker 2: brand new foundation that is grounded on your significance as
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  Speaker 2: a spiritual being with eternal value. Amen.
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  Speaker 1: God, sign me up. My God, if that's a pyramid scheme,
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  Speaker 1: I wanna get to the dang top. You know what
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  Speaker 1: I'm saying? No, I mean, you say, I mean, it's
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  Speaker 1: just like, I feel it, dude. I mean, I've had
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  Speaker 1: my own experience with ayahuasca and you even describe it like, God,
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  Speaker 1: I just remember like processing so much. Like it was
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  Speaker 1: like all these things that I could, you know, in
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  Speaker 1: regular life, even by going to therapy, it was almost
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  Speaker 1: like pulling weeds, right? The weeds would grow and I
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  Speaker 1: could go in therapy and pull them, right? Or I
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  Speaker 1: could go through 12 step and pull them. But now
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  Speaker 1: with ayahuasca, it felt like I was underground, like I
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  Speaker 1: was part of the earth and I could pull the
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  Speaker 1: dang roots, right? Or I could at least see the roots.
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  Speaker 1: I could see the roots and I could organize them
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  Speaker 1: better and I could prune them even. I could prune
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  Speaker 1: my own roots. And so it gave me a chance.
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  Speaker 1: So suddenly the stuff on the top, it wasn't just
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  Speaker 1: weeds when I got back out of the experience. It
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  Speaker 1: was a little bit more like my garden made a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of sense. It wasn't just constant struggle to
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  Speaker 1: like manage my own like little acre of existence you
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  Speaker 1: know and it's hard to explain sometimes, but I will
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  Speaker 1: say this, you know, I've probably done it, I think
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  Speaker 1: five times over the past three years. And recently I
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  Speaker 1: have started having this feeling that, oh man, this is
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  Speaker 1: just a little part of existence, right? Like, whereas I
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  Speaker 1: used to feel so connected and so scared about dying
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  Speaker 1: and I do still, you know, I like, I want
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  Speaker 1: to be alive. I want to spend time with my
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  Speaker 1: loved ones and, and see if I can see certain
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  Speaker 1: experiences or dreams through. But I don't feel like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you almost feel like, oh, we'll just be getting back
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  Speaker 1: on the train, you know, after that. Like, it'll be
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  Speaker 1: something else is going on. Like, this is just a
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  Speaker 1: stop at a Bucky's, you know, out in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of space that we're stopped at, you know. And you
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: can get you a damn snow globe with Dolly Parton
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  Speaker 1: in it, or you can do whatever you want. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's a Bucky's, you know, it's Earth. So, but yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I start to think that, oh, there's more after this.
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  Speaker 1: And it does make me less afraid about.
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  Speaker 1: Just the weight of every moment of my life and
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  Speaker 1: my life, every moment weighed so heavy. And I don't
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  Speaker 1: even know why sometimes. So take me through Ibogaine itself.
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  Speaker 1: Like what happens with Ibogaine, like the medicine itself, right?
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  Speaker 2: So the one thing that is cool about Ibogaine is
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  Speaker 2: its intelligence and its ability to produce an effect within
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  Speaker 2: the individual, which is unique. for that individual. Now, there
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  Speaker 2: are certain common themes that exist within it. Let's go
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  Speaker 2: back to the very beginning, which is this is an
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  Speaker 2: alkaloid found in three West African botanical sources. There's three
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  Speaker 2: plants that grow in Africa. One is called the iboga root.
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  Speaker 2: That is the mother plant. There's another plant called the
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  Speaker 2: voikanga afrikana.
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  Speaker 1: The voikanga?
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  Speaker 2: Voikanga afrikana.
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  Speaker 1: Voikanga afrikana?
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  Speaker 2: And the third one's not named. It's the more minor. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So the third one is a more minor root.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. So the Bwiti peoples.
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  Speaker 1: The Bwiti?
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  Speaker 2: Of West Africa. And they primarily reside in Gabon.
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  Speaker 1: Gabon?
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  Speaker 2: Gabon. Yes, sir. They are the cultural possessors of all
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  Speaker 2: the ancient knowledge around Iboga and Ibogaine. They have used
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  Speaker 2: Iboga and Ibogaine in their cultural and religious traditions for
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  Speaker 2: centuries now. They are humanity's. caretakers of all the knowledge
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  Speaker 2: and wisdom that comes from this plant.
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  Speaker 1: So like the librarians kind of.
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  Speaker 2: Correct. They have known and understood its abilities to connect
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  Speaker 2: us with divine source for centuries.
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  Speaker 1: God, and they weren't sharing it, were they?
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  Speaker 2: Well, there was no opportunity for them to share because
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  Speaker 2: they're a self-contained society and Contact was made with them
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  Speaker 2: by the West. And of course, that first contact came
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  Speaker 2: through the establishment of the transatlantic slave trade. Right.
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  Speaker 1: So not a good foot, not a good start off.
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  Speaker 2: Not a good start off.
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  Speaker 1: Got off on the wrong foot.
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  Speaker 2: So you have this society that has ancient knowledge, knowledge
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  Speaker 2: which until now has essentially been dismissed by the reductionist
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  Speaker 2: perspective of the West. And now that the West is
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  Speaker 2: being strangulated by the consequences of its materialism, deaths of despair,
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  Speaker 2: driven by a lack of any sense of spiritual significance,
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  Speaker 2: we find ourselves now looking across the Atlantic Ocean to
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  Speaker 2: a people who we have dismissed, who we have enslaved,
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  Speaker 2: to say to them, please help us understand how to
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  Speaker 2: utilize what you've known from centuries to emancipate us from
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  Speaker 2: the prison that we've built for ourselves. And CEO, as
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  Speaker 2: we start to create this process of medicalization within the
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  Speaker 2: United States, I firmly believe there is a beautiful unity
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  Speaker 2: opportunity here for us as civilizations and for us as
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  Speaker 2: people within the United States, black and white alike, to
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  Speaker 2: come together to illustrate our universal kinship as children of
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  Speaker 2: our Creator whose destiny is rooted and grounded in divine love.
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  Speaker 1: Amen, brother. To the core, I believe that.
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  Speaker 2: Theo, in all honesty, if someone had said to me
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  Speaker 2: five years ago, hey, you're going to be getting to
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  Speaker 2: go all around the country talking to people about plant
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  Speaker 2: medicine and the way in which it has been designed
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  Speaker 2: to affirm human divinity and your own experiences with these medicines,
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  Speaker 2: I would have looked at them and said, what in
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  Speaker 2: the world happened to me And what have I got
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  Speaker 2: to do to go back in time to make sure
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  Speaker 2: it does not? I mean, I was the president of
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: the teenage Republicans in high school.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
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  Speaker 2: I was president of the college Republicans in college. So
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  Speaker 2: to have gone... So you.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Had Rush Limbaugh mixtapes probably at the house.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I mean, to talk to 25-year-old conventional conservative
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: haircut Republican me and tell me that I'd be sitting
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  Speaker 2: here with you having this discussion, I'd have been like,
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  Speaker 2: you're out of your effing mind. There's no way possible
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  Speaker 2: that that's going to occur. And yet here we sit.
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  Speaker 1: Here we sit, brother. And sometimes we have to realize,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, man, I don't know where I'm supposed
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  Speaker 1: to be right now, but I'm supposed to be right
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  Speaker 1: where I am, you know?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: That's what Cat Williams reminded me of when I talked
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to him. I was like, man, he's like, if you're
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: here and you're in a conversation, then this is the
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  Speaker 1: time to have it, you know?
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  Speaker 2: You were talking about the earth being Bucky's and how
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  Speaker 2: this is a potpourri experience, but there's not all that
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  Speaker 2: there is. As I have walked the pathway to come
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  Speaker 2: to your studio for this discussion, I've come to conclude
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: that everything that happens from those things that are our
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: earliest memories in life all the way to as we
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: sit here and talk now, they are designed to prepare
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: us to become who our maker wishes for us to
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: be in this life as a preparation for the next.
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  Speaker 2: And plant medicines, I believe, have existed for thousands of
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  Speaker 2: years in cultures whose wisdom has been dismissed. They have
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: been looked down upon. And that has been to our
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: detriment here within Western society. And now that we see
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the garden that we have grown here, expressed as 1.5
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: million people who have died since 2015 from a combination
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: of drug overdose, alcohol-related disease, and suicide. We're missing some
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: things here. We treat the body. We treat the mind.
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  Speaker 2: But we've done a bad job of acknowledging the soul.
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  Speaker 1: So well said, man.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: This is just a rest area for your soul, you know.
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  Speaker 1: get you a snack and urinate and then we got
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  Speaker 1: to hit the high road, you know? Cause I, I think,
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  Speaker 1: and also when I start to believe that after this,
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  Speaker 1: you're off to something else, even wilder, it make, it's all,
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  Speaker 1: it's like, I had so much more like appeal to
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  Speaker 1: your own life. Right. That's what I've really, that's one
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: thing I noticed. Um, but yeah, I do believe that.
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  Speaker 1: I do believe that God's just got us here in the, uh,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: dang pep boys or whatever, you know, and he's just
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: kind of sprucing some things up. Um, Let's talk about
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine and what it is, because that's kind of your specialty.
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  Speaker 1: Is that fair to say?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: That's fair to say. Okay. By pure accident, by the way,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: not by design or ambition.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: You just ended up just Ibogaine-ing?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. Okay.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Well, look, hold on. Now, were you like an after-school user,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: or what happened, really?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I came to it in the same way that
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: most people come to it, and it was through desperation.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I had practiced law in Kentucky for 16 years and
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: then went into state government service I ran the state
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: social security disability system and some other things. And after
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: being in place for about six years, there were some
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: folks who said, you know, he kind of does a
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: decent job with some things. And we'd want him maybe
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: to run the state's opioid commission. And Kentucky, like a
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: lot of Appalachian states, has been ground zero for the
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: opioid epidemic that began with OxyContin being introduced back in
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: the late 90s.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: So all these opioid manufacturers and distributors had settled with
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: a bunch of states and paid them money for all
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the damage caused by the opioid epidemic. So when it
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: came time for Kentucky to get its money, they had
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: to set up an agency to administer and oversee it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: And they called it the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: So a guy by the name of Barry Dunn, who
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: was deputy attorney general at the time under my boss,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Daniel Cameron, came to me and said, hey, the legislature
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: has set up this opioid commission. Is this something you'd
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: be interested in running? I think you probably know, being
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: a Southerner, that as much as we love home and
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the society at home, sometimes the governments have not always
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: functioned the way they're supposed to. You know, Boss Hogg
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and the Dukes of Hazzard was a was an illustration
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: of some of that old-timey way of doing business where
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: everybody who's a working person gets their bones picked clean
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: by the people who are in power. Amen, always. So
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: when Barry said, hey, would you be interested in doing
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: this job? I said, Barry, this is a very treacherous
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: opportunity because we've got some aristocratic power structures here in
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Kentucky that are used to having their way with anything
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that involves the dollar bill. If y'all are willing, to
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: allow me to run the commission so that it is
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: accessible to the average everyday Kentuckian, that grassroots organizations that
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: ain't used to getting these sorts of opportunities can be resourced,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and that we do it in a way that is
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: accountable and transparent, I'll be interested in the job. But
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I don't want to take it if the expectation is
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: just going to be to hand the money over to
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: the usual vultures.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And he said, we'll back you 100%. I said, all right.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So I went through an interview process. And in the
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: interview process, I was asked, what do we need to
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: do with this money? I said, well, let's put the
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: big picture in context here. We're getting $ 842 million. Now,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: that's a big old bunch of money to anybody. It's massive.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, you hope you win $ 842 million on the lottery.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's damn Scrooge McDuck. Yes, all the way.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Richie Rich.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: But the problem is when you put it in context,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Purdue Pharma– made $ 100 million a month on OxyContin sales
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: for 12 years. So the entire state of Kentucky with 4.8
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: million people is getting about eight and a half months
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: of Purdue Pharma's OxyContin sales, but over 15 years.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Right. So it's really spaced out. And put up a
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: picture of the Sackler family just so I can just
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: tell them to go fuck themselves. If you don't mind
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: throwing it up there, I'm sorry if you ladies have
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: to hear that language, but there you go. That's a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: group that got off scot-free that's still alive. Well, Hundreds
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of thousands have been killed by their greed. So hope
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: they're doing well. Hope you see them on the street.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: And they've had a lot of enablers in politics.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, for sure. And there's a lot of roads
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: you can go down that. And we will get down
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: some of that road. I want to get down how
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: politics has helped or not helped the opioid crisis. And
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: what do you think we can do to solve that?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: But I want to just stay on track of this story.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So you're locked in with the government now. You have
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the ability to kind of administer how the funds are
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: put out.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. And they said, what do we need to
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: do with this money? And I named off a couple
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: of priorities, beginning with children. And I've done a little
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: homework on you, and I think you and I have
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: probably had some things that we got in common. I
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: said the first thing we've got to do is take
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: children whose families and communities have been destroyed by this
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: and give them connection to sanctuary from chaos, the stability
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: of love and relationships, and an affirmation of their individual spirituality.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Any child who's disconnected from these three things is going
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: to have a tough time making it in this world.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: And if we can create a structure for that to happen,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: we've got to do it. The next thing we've got
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: to do is take people who are trying to get
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: their lives back together and help them in whatever way
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: we can. Because someone whose life has been ravaged by addiction,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: they face all kinds of legal problems and financial problems
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: and just logistical problems. Like, where do I buy clothes
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: to go to work? How can I get to work?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: We've got to do everything we can. to give a
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: helping hand to folks who are trying their very best
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: to rebuild a shattered life. And I said, the final
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: thing we've got to do is figure out a way
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: to pioneer a therapeutic breakthrough for opioid addiction. I said,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: the options that we currently have are basically opioids with
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: which we treat opioid addiction. And while it's better than nothing,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: government has as a job An obligation to improve everybody's life.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And that's methadone and suboxone, things like that?
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: They are opioids produced by the very same people who
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: created the problem.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Nuh-uh, really?
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. The companies that produce the opioid epidemic are
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the same companies that produce its treatments.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Let's look that up. Who makes methadone?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: And check out Indivior, which is the parent company of
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: suboxone and sublocade and others. And Indivior has its own
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: criminal rap sheet with the federal government from the way
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: in which it sought to manipulate an increase in the
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: issuance of those prescriptions. There's something that's called the Opioid
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Record Archive at the University of California in San Francisco.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: And in that record archives, a Harvard faculty member by
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: the name of Dr. Matt Bevin has pulled out documents
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: that show that the companies that created the problem very
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: much celebrate the fact that they're the ones who are
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: basically making money off of the treatment on the back end.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Unreal.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: And that's the system that we find ourself with. Now,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. There's thousands of people that have
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: been saved by these, and they should be options on
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the table. But we need to diversify, expand, and improve
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: upon those options if we can. Wow, that's unbelievable.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we don't realize, right,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that evil has a plan, right? Evil's not just running
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: around your neighborhood, just tickling people or whatever and yelling
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: profanities and stuff like in the street. Evil will sell
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: you the problem and sell you the solution. That's how
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: far they've already thought ahead.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: They've already made the solution half the time before they
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: made the problem. If evil makes a solution, they won't say,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: let's offer the world a solution. They'll say, how do
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I create a problem so I can sell you this?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: And then I can sell you that, right? You know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm preaching. Sometimes I don't notice for
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: myself that evil is smart. Evil is not ignorant.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: It's very sophisticated. And on the exterior, it's not scary.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: If evil looked like all the monsters of our imagination,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: it's easy to identify it and avoid it. But it's slick.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And the Bible says the devil will appear as an
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: angel of light. There's also phraseology in modern literature that
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: refers to the banality of evil. It's very boring. Evil
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: often appears in very high-scale white-collar business suits and ties,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: carrying fancy degrees in law and finance from Ivy League institutions.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: All these measurements of external respectability. Evil knows how to
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: put it on and shine. And they're there to sell
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: us whatever they can sell us. to make us its subject.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And that's where we find ourselves.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Dang, man, it's true. And it happens. There's a lot
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: of ways it can happen. But yeah, I think just
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the psychology of evil, I've thought about that more recently
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: in my life. Like evil is a strategist. Evil is
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: a wizard.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: You know, and you have to be a wizard for
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: your own life. You know, we have to try and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: do our best to do that. Um, okay.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So you accept the job, accept the job.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And you're like, and one of the things you just mentioned,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you have to find ways to, uh, create better pathways
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: for people to get treatment.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: That's correct. Okay. Now, in 2018, you know, I had
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: heard about psychedelics growing up. I remember watching commercials and
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: shows on TV of a bunch of hippies rolling around
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: in mud on mushrooms, and I thought, Lordy mercy, this
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: is how you collapse an entire society, a bunch of crazy, nuts-out-of-their-mind,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: drug-taking people. Those were my thoughts on psychedelics. In 2018,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: one of my very close friends said, And his sister
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: was somebody who I had known for years as an
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: underground psilocybin provider. And she's a little out there. And
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I never really give it much thought.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: And shout out to all the underground psilocybin providers out there.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I just want to– you guys never– you don't get
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: a holiday. You know what I'm saying, dude? Where's the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: freaking Juneteenth for underground psilocybin providers that have kept us
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: all– Able to manage semi-decently over the past few years.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: At great risk.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: At great risk. At great risk, dude. And half the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: time you're on mushrooms when they bust you, and so
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: that's spooky.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: But go on. In 2018, I do a lot of
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: reading about things related to politics and society and science
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: when there's opportunities for progress. And I come out of
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: a family that has a championship history. of alcohol, substance use,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: and mental health issues. And my family has generationally had
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: a wicked relationship with alcohol.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I could see that. You remind me of
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Hacksaw Jim Druggan, you know what I'm saying, dude? And
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I mean that in a loving way.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Okay, yeah.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: But so your family, it's there a lot, huh?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll put it this way. I can remember certain
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: great uncles of mine who had served in war, been
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: to World War II in Korea, and sitting next to
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: them and on a hot summer day and they wouldn't
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: have had a drink, but you could smell the alcohol
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: being sweated out of them.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And did you think you had a problem growing up
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: at all or no?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: You know, fortunately, I never developed any sort of alcohol
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: or substance use problem, but that was because of the
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: presence of God's love in my life through my grandparents.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: My earliest memories as a child were of screaming and
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: cussing and chaos between my parents. I was scared to
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: death as a kid. And I had two grade school
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: educated coal mining grandfathers who spent a lot of time
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: with me for the first 12 years of my life.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: They were both men who had grown up under tremendous hardship.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: They had no bitterness. They had nothing but love and
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: grace within them. And when I would go and spend
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: time with them on the weekends, as early as I
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: could remember them speaking language to me that I could understand,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: at some point before they'd take me home, they'd put
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: me on their knee and they'd say, now listen, Papa
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: loves you, but more importantly, God loves you. And he
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: has a special and unique purpose in your life, no
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: matter how bad it gets, no matter how abandoned and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: scourged you may feel. No, God has you in his hands.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Don't ever lose sight of it, because if you will
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: maintain faith, he's going to bring you through. Theo, if
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: those beautiful gentlemen had not given me those lessons consistently...
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: if I were alive at all, and there's a substantial
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: likelihood that I would not be, I would not be
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: sitting here with you as I am. I'd be living
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: in some dark hole somewhere wondering what someone who held
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: jobs like I've held was going to do to come
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: pull me out of them.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: It made all the difference.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's like, you don't realize the effect
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you can have on somebody by showing them attention, showing
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: them care, you know? Um, I believe that parents, especially
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: when they look at their children, however you look at
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: your children, you're like a picture and you are poor.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: That is the look that they will have inside of them. Right. Like,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: you know, like in our family, I was, I always
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: felt like there was a ton of look of like, um,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you were, you were wrong. You weren't doing it right. Like, uh,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: nothing was ever okay. I didn't never get one look
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: from my mother that I, I don't think she looked
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: at me until probably about 13. But when she finally
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: looked over at, she's fucking pissed. I was like, God dang,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I've waited all that time for that. I'd have fricking
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: left sooner. But, and no shade to her, like, you know,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: times have gone on, but I've just, I think to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: parents and I'm not trying to preach, but I think
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: if you always look at your child, like they're, what
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: they're doing is something is wrong. Then the feeling that
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: they will have in them is that something is wrong, right?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: However you look at your child the most, that is
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: what they, that's the feeling that gets created in them.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's a possible thing or not? Oh,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: the absence of love is lethal. We as human beings
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: are animals. At our nature, our core, we are animals.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And the existence of love within us is the surest
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: evidence of a divine creator whose essence is almighty, unconditional
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: love for all of us, And but for that touch
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: of divinity within us, I don't believe that any human
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: being would have the capacity to feel or receive love.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: And it is being born on this side of eternity
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: with the evil that coexists with the light that defines
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: much of our lifelong journey of struggling to attain that light.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: I heard somebody say about six months ago that really
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: the struggle in life is always the struggle to attain genuine,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: authentic love. Amen.
• 31:22
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• 31:26
  Speaker 1: or faster, but you only get to pick two. What
• 31:29
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• 31:31
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• 31:37
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• 32:01
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• 32:14
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• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: So you're in there, you're mitigating where the funds go
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: and stuff. How do you get to Ibogaine? How do
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you get to be in this place where you're obviously
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: like seeing that there's a having an emotional connection to
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: humans so you understand maybe how the need can best
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: be serviced. How do you get then into Ibogaine? How
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: do you come to that?
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: In 2018, I read a study that was published about
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: the effect of the psilocybin or psychedelic mushroom on alcoholism
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: and the fact that it had demonstrated within this study
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: a profound ability to help people overcome alcoholism. And having
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: come from a family that has just a generationally wicked
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: relationship with alcohol, this caught my attention. A friend of
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: mine has a sister who is a little out there,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: but she's an underground psilocybin mushroom facilitator. I became curious
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: after I read this article, and I thought, well, there
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: must be something to this, given the scientific research and
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: what it shows about its ability to basically effectively treat alcoholism.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: So I reached out to her. I said, Don, I
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: know that you understand the mushroom and have for some time.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I want to understand it. I'm curious. And I want
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: to see what this is all about. After for years
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: thinking this is just a bunch of crazy hippie stuff
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't want nothing to do with. So between 2018
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: and 2022, I had a series of psilocybin mushroom journeys.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: The first one was just very mild at three grams.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: It was enough to kind of get the extra sensory
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: ability to kind of see and hear and feel things
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: a little differently. And then I had probably eight to
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: 10 additional journeys of various intensities. Most of them were beautiful.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Some of them were terrifying. All of them were profound.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: And at the end of that process, I became an
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: absolute believer in what other civilizations have known for thousands
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: of years. And that is our creator has put plants
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: on this earth whose purpose is is to work with
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: human chemistry to provide us with just a small window
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: of opportunity to look behind the veil and into eternity.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: So to understand who we are, where we come from,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and how our true alignment is with the source of
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: divine love that flows through all of us.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: So I read about a lady who, she actually wrote
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: about her own stories with psilocybin. and how it helped
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: her overcome her anxiety and depression that had crippled her
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: for most of her life, as well as a near-fatal
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: eating disorder, in addition to her atheism. So I reached
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: out to her and I said, Hey, I've been given
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: this job in Kentucky. You wrote about your experiences beautifully.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: What can you tell me about the world of psychedelics
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: and whether there's anything in it that has special application
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: to opioid addiction? On July the 29th, 2022, down in
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Siesta Key, Florida, on family vacations when I had this call,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: And it was the day that I heard the word
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine for the first time. She said, are you familiar
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: with this? I said, I've never heard of it in
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: my life. She said, I'm going to put you in
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: touch with another lady who can tell you about her
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: recovery experience with Ibogaine. She put me in touch with
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: a lady by the name of Juliana Mulligan who gave
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: me her story. And basically, she had been an opioid-dependent
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: individual for almost a decade. And she said she had
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: done it all. Heroin, fentanyl. She'd been in and out
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: of jail. She'd been homeless at different points in time.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: She said she had been through every recovery process that
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: could be invented, abstinence programs, 12-step programs, and she had
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: been through Suboxone treatment. And she said, what they don't
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: tell you about Suboxone is that the way in which
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: it attaches to your system, she said, for me, Suboxone
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: withdrawal made heroin withdrawal seem like a cakewalk. And she
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: said it was the awfulest thing I ever experienced. She said,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I became so tired. of the life I had to
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: live to secure my supply, I relocated to Columbia to
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: teach English as a sacred language. And in Columbia, they
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: have open pharmacy, meaning you can go in there and
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: just get whatever you want. Oh, yeah.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Most of my dreams take place in damn Columbia.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where she found herself and why. So she said,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: one day I got up and looked in my mirror
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: and she said, I knew I was going to die.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And she said, I was just desperate. give myself one
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: more chance to be able to live because I knew
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to make it. She said, I got
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: online and started researching and I came across this thing
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: called Ibogaine. And she said it just sounded ridiculous in
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: terms of what it was supposed to be able to do.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a damn protein powder, you know? Yeah.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: She said it sounded too good to be true. It
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: just sounded like a bunch of kookiness, really. She said,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: but I was desperate and I was willing to try
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: anything that could give me my life back. So she said,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I went to an Ibogaine place in Guatemala, somebody who
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: could provide it. And she said, what I didn't know
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: at the time is that Ibogaine comes with a very
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: serious cardiac side effect, meaning if you take too much
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: of it, though it is a stimulant, it will slow
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: your heart down, stop it, and you'll die. You have to.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine is a very serious medication. It has no recreational
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: purpose whatsoever. You hear about parties and raves of different kind,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: cocaine parties or heroin parties. Nobody's ever heard of an
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine party. No. Because unless you think being semi-paralyzed for
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: 10 to 12 hours and throwing up over that same
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: time is a good time, you ain't going to have
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: a good time.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go get food poisoning or whatever.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: That's right. There's no food poisoning parties happening in the
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: United States, just like Ibogaine. So Juliana makes her way
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: to Guatemala, and she gets Ibogaine treatment. She was given
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: about three times what she should have, and she went
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: into cardiac arrest six times and almost died. She said
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: that she could somewhat remember her journey. She said that
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: the first thing that she remembered after getting her treatment
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: was waking up in the intensive care unit of a
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: hospital in Guatemala. And she said, when I opened my eyes,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I felt the best I had ever felt in my life.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: And she said, despite the fact that it almost killed me,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I would go back and do it all over again.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: She said, my desire to use was gone. I didn't
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: experience any withdrawal symptoms. She said, I had spent years
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: being told that I was diseased, that I had a
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: disease that I could not overcome that was going to
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: be with me for the rest of my life. And
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: the best that I could do was treat those symptoms.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: And she said, for me, that led to this sense
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: that I was not in control. I didn't have ownership
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: of myself. She said, after I began, all that thinking
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: went to the wayside. I came to recognize that I
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: had ownership of myself and my destiny. And that my
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: future would be henceforth defined by my choices rather than
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: any compulsion tied to a disease that was fictitious.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Preach, brother. Wow, dude.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: And she said, most significantly for me, she said, there
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: was no question in my mind after my Ibogaine experience
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: that there is an eternal creator whose essence is pure
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: and unconditional love for all of us. She said, I
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: know it. And that made all the difference for me.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: And that was the first Ibogaine recovery journey that I
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: got to hear about. And now, three years later, has
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: been hundreds of such similar stories of just unbelievable Lazarus-like restoration. Amen. Wow, man.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think just hearing you say that about how
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it gives you the autonomy over your life, because that's
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: what I think you start to feel. I think that's
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: one thing that's like, I mean, I know for me
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: is missing a lot of times is like just that, belief,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: like that core belief that I'm in complete control of me, right?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I just like, yeah, because you start to wonder, well,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: where does people's messaging come from? And I think a
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: lot of times parents just don't know that a lot
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: of it does, it can come from them, right?
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Well, we all grow in the soil in which we
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: are planted, whether we're children or whether we're parents. And
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: when we look at where we're at, especially over the
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: past 30 years in American society, there's a whole lot
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: of messaging through popular culture, through government, through institutions of
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: cultural influence, that individuals are not their own. They are,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: in many ways, captives of circumstance.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: It
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: all goes together. And what plant medicine broadly, and Ibogaine
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: specifically seems to have, is this ability to liberate the
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: individual from the surly bonds of their earthly thinking that
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: has been reinforced by systems of power and control that
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: prefer people to live on their knees instead of on
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: their feet.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really like a new, it feels like almost
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: like an emancipation proclamation kind of for the soul, you know,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: of a spirit. Cause I think that's right. I think
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: most of my life I've probably thought, man, something's wrong.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: How do I fix something that's wrong? Right. Instead of thinking, Hey,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I'm right.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Instead of like stacking things on that other side of
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: the scale that like I was created to be okay. Right.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I was created to be right. There's like a lot
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: of probably, I don't know if it's just Western society,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: but it's like, yes, something is wrong. Right. There's how
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: this is broken. Something's wrong. Right. And that's from a
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: place of being defeated. You're operating from a place not
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: of power then.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: There is a philosopher out there. You know a guy
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: by the name of C.S. Lewis who was this great
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Christian thinker. He wrote The Chronicles of Narnia. He wrote
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Mere Christianity. He wrote a book called The Screwtape Letters.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: He was a great thinker. He began his journey as
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: a total nonbeliever. And he went on this academic exercise
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: of trying to disprove the authenticity of God. And through
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: that process of trying to disprove it, he became a believer.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: He was friends with another philosopher who I believe's name
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: was Bertrand Russell. And they had this dialogue with each other.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Bertrand Russell made this assertion essentially that there is no
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: greater meaning, that everything that we see and experience now
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: is all that there is, and that the universe itself
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: is destined for total and complete distinction.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Extinction?
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Extinction. It is only through embracing and internalizing what he
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: called the unyielding despair of nothingness that we find meaning
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: as human beings. Now, I would argue to you that
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: much of what folks our age and younger have seen
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: in American society today is founded upon the unyielding despair
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: of nothingness. where we are reduced to nothing more than
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: physical beings who are accidents of astrophysics with no greater
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: purpose or meaning that follows us after the grave. That
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: this is the totality of it all, and you better
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: make the best of it now, because once it's gone,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: it's over. Those are the roots of the anguish that
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: we see today in American society, where we've been told
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: for 50-plus years, God is dead. There is nothing beyond
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: your material self. You better grab it, smash and grab
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: life while you can.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a target. The world is a target
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: It's your target.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: You better get in there and get shit and wear
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: a mask, brother.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: That's not the truth.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: That is where we are at. That is why this
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: society is in the condition that it is in. And
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: the only way that folks like you and I are
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: going to be able to help create a shift in
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: social consciousness— so as to create a future worth living
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: in is if we acknowledge, elevate, and celebrate our human divinity.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: When you look at our elemental composition, what we're made of,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: what is in our blood, there's only one place that
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: iron that is in our blood comes from, and it
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: is through the incredibly destructive force of the death of
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: a star and a supernova. A supernova is the only
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: thing that produces iron. Our blood... is the content of stardust.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: That is not my accident. And I'm not here to
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: proclaim any sort of universal truth for a particular sect
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: of human man-made religion. But what I am here to
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: say is that there is no question in my mind
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: with the blessing of having received the plant medicine experiences
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: that I have. We are in fact... Spiritual beings who
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: have eternal significance. And that is the only reality upon
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: which our society can be reestablished to have a future
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: worth living in.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Amen. Bring that up. Is that the truth too? And
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: hell yeah, I'll have the damn pork sausage. I feel
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: you today, brother. You know what I'm saying? I have patties.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I hate when they have links and not patties. Don't you?
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm a link and patty guy together. I'll
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: take a sausage links and put on a piece of
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: bread with some mustard. That's good eat.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just love the Patty so much. Maybe I
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: need to have a new experience. Let me see what
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: that says. Supernova explosions are a crucial step in the
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: chain of events that generate the iron we find in
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: interstellar space and the solar system, including Earth. Iron is
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: formed via nuclear fusion in the cores of stars that
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: are eight times more massive than our sun. I mean,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: if you're looking out at the stars, you know what
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: sometimes I've thought, man, when I'm looking at the stars?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: It feels like they're looking back at me, bro. And
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: that was a crazy feeling for me. I was like,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: it feels like they're looking back here, you know? The
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: starry sky is one of the most tangible and profound
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: expressions of the specialness of the human species. Now, there
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: are many creatures that are nocturnal, that they become activated
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: at night, and that's when they go about wandering and
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: eating and killing and procreating with each other. But those
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: creatures don't have the unique capacity to look up at
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: that sky.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: And be in awe of everything that it represents. There
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: was a story that I heard out of a lady
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: who defected from North Korea. She basically, there's an underground
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: railroad organization called Duri Hana that is based in South
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Korea that helps North Koreans escape through China to get
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: down to the South and have freedom.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Duri Hana?
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Duri Hana is the name of the organization. It's like
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: the Korean Underground Railroad. Hmm.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm looking at it. Durihanan North Korea Mission is
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: a defector aid Christian organization based in South Korea founded
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: by Peter Chung. The organization assists North Korean defectors escape
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: from North Korea and China, often by helping refugees to
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: pay their broker fees, which allows them to cross borders.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Wow. There was a North Korean defector who had grown
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: up in that society her whole life. And, of course,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: the first thing about communism is there is no God.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: It is aggressively and officially atheist. And this woman, when
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: she left her home and crossed the river into China,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: she said, I looked up at the sky before I
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: was taking a journey that I thought I may very
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: well not survive. And she said, I was always taught
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: there was no God. But when I looked at that sky,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: the only thing I could say was, God, please help me.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Even though I had no frame of reference, all of
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: my instincts said there's someone there And they're going to
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: watch me and see me through. She made it. Our
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: human instincts all propel us toward the acknowledgement of human
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: divinity that is rooted in love. And the estrangement from
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: divine love, I believe, is a source of all human suffering.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Through the advancement of plant medicine and specifically the medicalization
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: of Ibogaine for the treatment of trauma and addiction. We
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: have the opportunity to refound modern American society on a
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: spiritual foundation, which is necessary if it's going to have
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: a future worth living. Agreed.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Literally to get back to our roots, right?
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, I think that's one thing. It's
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: just like when you look at the Native American cultures
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: and like the things that they were so in tune with,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: it felt like they knew so much. that we came
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: through and just like built, like we're just like this
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: strip mall of existence. It's great. And it's, I'm not
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: discrediting being an American or like the gifts that it's
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: offered us or that it's offered me just to be
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: able to exist here. But I think, yeah, we've gotten
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: so estranged from like connections to the source, right? Connections
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: to the source. I mean, just from my own experience
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: with plant medicine, with ayahuasca, I just felt like Yeah,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: just like, man, it just makes everything so much less
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: about you and makes it more about just love. It
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: really does. I mean, it just, I met a shaman
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: dude at a smoothie shop, and then, dude, next thing
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm back at his place, and he had,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: this was in Maui, and he has some, like, DMT,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: but not like the gas station DMT, like the legit.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: You got to stay away from that gas station stuff.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, dude, that stuff will just make you damn
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: sell your car and then you have to walk home.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Then you're high walking home.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: You're just about a high step away from melting down
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: shoe polish to drink it when you start buying out
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: a gas station for something that's going to cure you.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's bad. I've had a lot of friends that
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: have just, like, really wrecked their vehicles out there on
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: that spice and that bullshit they're selling over there. But, yeah,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: next thing you know, I'm at his house, and, like,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I tried this DMT, and, like, I just remember feeling
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: like I was leaving the planet kind of. And that
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: everybody I knew and everything was going to be okay
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: because we were all going to leave the planet one day.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: And the feeling I was getting when I was leaving
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: was like, man, all the, like, it was such an
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: overwhelming feeling of love and of like, um, light and
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: that worldly thoughts and ideas didn't even matter. And there
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: was one moment where I had like, oh shit, all
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that mattered while I was there was did I love?
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Everything else was a ruse. Everything else was, um, was
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: a trap door. Everything else was a waste of time.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: All that mattered was did I try to love the
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: best I could? And, yeah, I think as a society
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: we have gotten away from that. And as humans a
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: lot of times, especially in Western society, that we have
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: gotten away from that. And I think at this point
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: it is organized for us to stay away from that.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: People don't want you to know you're a creator. They
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: don't want you to know you were created for a purpose,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: that you are here to love and that you're capable
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: of it. They want you to believe that there's always
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: a problem with you.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: The dividend of division is control. And the more that
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: the powers that be can separate us from each other,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the easier it is for those power structures can control
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: us for their own selfish purposes and ends. And since
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: hearing the word Ibogaine for the first time on July
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: 29th of 22, I have come to very much believe
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: that all of this that we see in front of
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: us is spiritual warfare. There are two sides at war
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: with one another. And these are the signs. It's all
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: of us who can come to recognize that we are
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: of God versus those among us who aspire to be God.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: And when the human hand aspires to be God, there
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: is suffering at unimaginable scale, spiritually and physically. And we
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: have come at a time in our history where all
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: those who can recognize that we are of God have
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: got to band together to push back on the heels
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: those who aspire in their arrogance to be God.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Getting your sweat on might seem like hard work, but
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• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm sweating out bad decisions. Like the time I
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: tried to just fill my own chipped tooth in. Why sauna? Well,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: it relieves sore joints and muscles, improves skin, boosts heart health,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: and melts stress like hot butter. And I'm finally sleeping
• 55:11
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• 55:13
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• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Learn more about how to get your own premium home
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: sauna from Symmetry Sauna at SymmetrySauna.com. slash T-H-E-O. So, Brian,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: so I interrupted you kind of about the roots, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I've interrupted you a couple times, and I'm sorry about that,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: but how did we come to, once they figured out
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: the Abigain, the Bwiti?
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: The Bwiti.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: The Bwiti. How did they come to use it? How
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: is it used? What is the actual usage of it like?
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: So, in the 60s, this guy by the name of
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Howard Lotsoff, who's from the United States, he was kind
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: of a, substance omnivore, if it was there, he was
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: going to take it. He took Ibogaine. And on the
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: other side of that Ibogaine experience, though he had struggled
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: with heroin addiction for a decade, on the other side,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: he didn't want no more heroin. Okay, so after the use.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: He didn't want to withdraw. Wow.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So in terms of how it works, a person will
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: usually receive, in a clinic, if they go to Mexico,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: they'll receive two or three pills. And within about an hour,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: you might hear some clicking in your ears and some heaviness.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: And then you lay down. And dependent on the individual,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: that begins what is about a 10 to 12-hour process
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: whereby you go on, and it's always respectful of your choice,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: an internal journey within.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: When you say pills, what do you mean? It's pills?
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: It's like a capsule. Capsule of the root.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Of the root or of the ibogaine alkaloid that has
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: been extracted from the root. Think of it as a
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: lack of vitamin supplement. They've taken this tree bark. They've
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: done a chemical synthesis, and they have created a powderized
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: version of Ibogaine that they put into a capsule, and
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: you take it. So that's the first thing. You take
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: it by pill form. Okay.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: So you take it by pill form. Then you have
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: an experience. You're laying there. Are you by yourself? Are
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: you in a hospital room? What's the experience?
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: If you're going to do it right, you have to
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: be in a clinically controlled medical setting where there are
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: medical professionals around you to monitor your heart at all
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: times and to make sure that you are receiving magnesium
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: in connection with the Ibogaine to mitigate that cardiac risk
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: that comes with its slowing of your heart. You have
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: to have someone there with you at all times who
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: has medical skill training and expertise to assure that it
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: is a safe experience. So as you are laying down,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: because you develop what I've called ataxia, it's a tremulousness
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: in your joints. You can't stand or walk on your
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: own and you have to have mobility assistance. when you
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: are at all times oriented to where you're at and
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: who's around you. Ibogaine is a respecter of individual choice
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: and autonomy. It's not going to do what ayahuasca or
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: psilocybin does in terms of, you know, when you take it,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: it's going to take you where it's going to take you.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: You really ain't got no control over the experience. Ibogaine
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: is an intelligent medicine, meaning if I don't want to
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: see what it's going to show me, the only thing
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: I've got to do is open my eyes. I could
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: have taken two or three Ibogaine pills three hours beforehand
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: and be sitting here talking to you just as clear
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: and coherent as I am right now. But if I
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: close my eyes and let the dark come in, then
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I might start to see some things about myself, my life,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and what it means. That was certainly my experience as
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: well as the experience my wife had. If at any
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: time I wanted to interrupt that or I didn't like
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: what I was seeing, I could ask it, show me
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: something different. It may show me something different. If I
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: don't want to see any of it, I just open
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: my eyes and it's gone. It at all times allows
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: you to engage with it or disengage with it as
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: you wish. I can only really speak to my personal
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: experience and I've had two. Okay.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: But you're, so you're laying there, you've taken the medicine.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: You're in a facilitated environment.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: There's people around you that can take care of you.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: So you feel completely comfortable.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. Okay.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Now you can open your eyes if you want it
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: to stop.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: You can close your eyes if you want it to
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: go there. If you close your eyes and start to,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: do you, is it like a day, a dream that
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: starts up? How would you describe that feeling? And then
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: does it feel like you've had your eyes closed for
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: five minutes? Does it feel like you've had your eyes
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: closed for five years? Like, what does that kind of
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: feel like?
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: It's like a wake and daydream. You know, different people
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: will describe different levels of visuality. So, for instance, my
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: first Ibogaine journey, there were a few images at the beginning.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: But for the most part, it was something that I
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: felt rather than saw. My wife, on the other hand,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: had a very visual experience. It was something that she
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: felt and saw simultaneously. It was tremendously beautiful for her.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Women are always like, well, guess what I saw.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: And that's okay. We're not judging them. But yeah, I mean,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: you could send your woman into that mailbox and she'll
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: see 11 things, you know, and that's fine. But I'm good.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: We need them out there looking at stuff.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: I began gave her a Van Gogh painting in terms
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: of the beauty of it. My second experience was much more.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: I both saw it and I felt it. And my
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: wife had kind of a similar experience where it built
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: on the first for both of us. Each of our
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: journeys built on the other. in terms of what it
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: showed us and affirmed for us by way of those
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: things in our lives that we needed to have reconciled
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: for us. Go ahead. That's what it does for the individual.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: It's going to go where you need it to go.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: And I remember being prepared. They said, you know, it
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: may not give you what you want, but it's going
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: to give you what you need. Got it.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: And is it male or female? What is it? Like,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: is the medicine... It.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Can be– I've heard people describe Ibogaine as having a
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: very male energy.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: It's like the grandfather. Ayahuasca being the grandmother with a
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: more feminine energy. Now, I've never had an ayahuasca experience,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: so I can't speak to that part of it. But
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine is consistently described as the grandfather. Got it. And
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: the grandfather might be corrective or the grandfather may be loving.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: But the grandfather is going to give you what the
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: grandfather perceives that you need. Got it.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Now, say if you lay there, can you just fall asleep?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: At a certain point, through the effect, people can and
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: sometimes do fall asleep. If Ibogaine decides that you need
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: that rest, you're going to get the rest.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: If what you need is different from that, then you're
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: not going to get the rest. Got it.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's just very similar with ayahuasca. It's like,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: you know, you can go in with a couple of ideas.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: They say write down some things like I would like
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: to know about this. Why do I think like this?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Why does this happen in my life? And some of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: them will be addressed by like mother ayahuasca. That's what
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: they call it. And then some of them may not
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: be right, but you'll kind of get what you need
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: You can sit there and close your eyes and really
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: get into a crazy experience or a unique experience. I
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: shouldn't use the word crazy, but like a lot of times, yeah,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: I went back to my childhood and like, I would
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: see why I behave certain ways as a kid or
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: be able to process certain things. And kind of even
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of it for me, a lot of times
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: was like, just crying, like crying over things that had
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: happened a long time ago. But getting those tears out
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: of my system, it was like squeezing a sponge so
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: that now the sponge could hold something new. I mean,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I was just so waterlogged with pain from my past
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: that I couldn't get it out of me. And so
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: this thing was like really like just a damn spin
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: cycle to pull that stuff out of you and not
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: just do it in a way where it's just sucking
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the pain out of you, but to show you along
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: the way and even to be there as almost like
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: With ayahuasca, it feels like God or somebody has their
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: hand right there with you on their shoulder or on
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: the back of your neck and is just helping you
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: process these things. It doesn't feel like you're doing it alone, right?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: So that was always very fascinating to me. Like all
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: these things that I, I don't know, I kind of knew,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: but I didn't really know. And it just helped me
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: like process them all. And so then I just felt
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: like I could finally breathe. Like there was this room
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: in my lungs for, uh, for new air, you know,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and I'd never.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Felt that my whole life. You know, that's what it
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: felt like.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: So that experience, now you get done with the experience,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: you're there for, I mean, say you're, you say, cause
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: it's like in a taxi, you can't move. Does that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: go away after a few minutes and then you're just
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: laying there? What's that like? It's 10 to 12 hours.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: So once you take them pills, you're on the front
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: end of what's going to be a 10 to 12
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: hour experience. And that experience is the ataxia. For many people,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: it is also nausea where you're throwing up a lot.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: It's also the visuals. It's also the feelings.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: So in that 10 to 12 hours, you are in
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: the high wave acute phase.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Do you paralyze kind of in a way?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Yes. Now, you can move your hands and arms and toes,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: but you can't stand. You can't support your own weight.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: You're real jittery. It's a neurological effect that it produces
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: of immobility. And I would argue that it does so
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: intelligently because it intends for you to be still so
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: that it can do with you and speak to you quietly.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: And you don't have the capacity to be restless and distracted.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: It's got you. It has your attention.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: And then usually the next day, most people have what
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: they call the gray day. You've been up at this
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: point for 24 hours. You're going to be up for
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: at least another 12. You're physically exhausted. Your brain has
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: expended all of these neurochemicals that Ibogaine has produced and
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: which is at the core of its restorative function for
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: the organ of the brain itself. But you're wore out.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: For me, it felt like I had the flu on
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: steroids for about 24 hours. I went back and just
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: laid in the bed all day. You're somewhat emotionally dysregulated.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: I remember looking at my wife the day after and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I said, this is one of the worst decisions I've
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: ever made. I should have never came down here. I
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: was filled with a tremendous amount of distress and doubt
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: and felt bad and sad. I mean, you're just Emotionally dysregulated.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: But then the following day, 48 hours out, everything starts
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: to kind of come together. Mentally, physically, and spiritually. And
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: most of the clinics, the ones that we've been to,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: will give you 5-MeO-DMT two days later. And the analogy
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: that I've heard is that if Ibogaine sandblasts you, 5-MeO-DMT
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: polishes you. And that was certainly what my experience of
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: it was. I made a volcanic analogy. If Ibogaine put
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: magma in the mountain chamber, 5-MeO-DMT blew the top off
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: of that mountain. God! And it is not recreational. It
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: is not a party.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Hell no.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: But it is profound. Okay. And it is not an end.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: It is not a destination. It is a beginning. And
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: what you do with that beginning is within your full
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: and complete control, looking at yourself and the world with
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: a new set of eyes. Understood.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: So the day between, just to go back briefly to
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: the actual day-to-day of it, of you guys' experience, are
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: you guys back in a room together and you're just
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: kind of recovering that day before the 5-Hemio DMT? Yes.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: The day after Ibogaine, we were in a room together.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: We just kind of laid in bed. She cried tears
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: of joy all day long while I was over curled
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: up in a fetal position, just wondering what in the
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: world I had done to myself.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: And why was she joyous then?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine gave her a tremendous amount of love and affirmation
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: that was connected to her own divinity, her relationship with
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: her mother, whether she was a daughter that was worthy
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: of the kind of mother that she had. Her mother
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: was a saintly individual, and she had always struggled with
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: feelings of inadequacy, of not living up to who her
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: mother was. Ibogaine helped her reconcile that conflict that had
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: been at the center of her adulthood in a way
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: that was just spectacular. When she came over to me,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: so you asked where we were at. During the treatment itself,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: the first time we did it, we were in a
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: treatment room, and there were three specialists. special forces guys
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: between us. She was on one end of the room
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: and I was on the other. We were laying on
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: mattresses in this big treatment room. And she came to
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: quicker than I did. And I can remember she tapped
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: me on the shoulder and I lifted my eye mask.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: And I mean, she was just beaming the radiance of
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: joy on her. I looked at her immediately and I
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: thank God. because over the history of our relationship, she'd
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: always been very much a left-brain rationalist. She wasn't somebody
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: who would have any sort of real spiritual discussions or
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: anything like that. She is a left-brain rationalist, alpha female
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: kind of lady. Ain't got time for a bunch of
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: spiritual this or foofy that or whatever. And when I
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: initially talked to her about receiving it, she's like, I'm
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: not into that. If you want to go do it,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: I'll go down there with you. But as she heard
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: the testimonies in Kentucky when I was running the commission,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: we had hearings to have people come in and talk
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: about it, to inform the people at home as to
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: what this was and what it could do and why
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: it was worthy of taking a little bit of our
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: settlement money to try to have it developed as a drug.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: She said, you know, I think if for no other reason,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: I want to see if I can come off of
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: my Celexa. She had had a mood disorder that she
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: developed after her son was born in 2001. She went
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: into a profound postpartum depression. Whatever that depression did to
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: her mind or her brain caused a chemical imbalance. And
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: that chemical imbalance became manifest through the development of a
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: psychotic mood disorder. Hmm. where she would experience these really
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: violent mood swings. And when she would have these episodes,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: she could be a danger to herself and others. Right.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? So before we went to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: the clinic in 2023, they said– She's going to have
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: to come off of her Celexa for five days because
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: if she's taking it, when she gets down here, it
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: will blunt the effect. And Theo, I had just like
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: broke into a cold sweat. Yeah, we got to keep
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: her on it. I said, gentlemen, we ain't going to
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: make it. I said, I can't be in this house
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: with her one day without it, let alone five. It's impossible.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. We ain't going to come. They said, we
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: hear you. We work with people like this all the time.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: We're going to give you a supplementation regimen. She's going
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: to get edgy. but you'll get her down here. Now,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: she did get edgy. She got edgy.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Did she?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: But we got her down. I mean, a little bit
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: more grumpy, a little bit more cussy.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Like Alexa Bliss or something, like a damn wrestler?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you could have put her in a pro wrestling ring,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: and she'd have been ready to rip some lady's head off.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: We could have probably got her in that condition. But
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: we get her to Mexico. Her last Alexa was November 23, 2023. Really?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: She's not had a pill since.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: That's true?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: And the metamorphosis.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Is it shocking to you that that's the truth?
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: It is. I would never, never have believed that it
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: would have been possible. I thought on best case, you know,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: after we get home, she'll probably make it three to
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: six months and we'll have to put her back on.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: She's been off ever since. And the metamorphosis that has
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: occurred within her and that continues to occur demonstrates to
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: me the reality of the fundamental evolution of that an
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine experience specifically and a plant medicine experience more broadly
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: can produce for the human being when it is approached
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: with the right intention.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: Amen. So how does Ibogaine help for alcoholism, for drug addiction,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: for PTSD? How does it actually help?
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine's mechanism of action or what is the question of
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: how is a mystery. No one understands how it does
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: what it does, but we know what it does. When
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: it comes to polysubstance dependency, and I mean opioids, stimulants
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: like cocaine, meth, for which we have absolutely zero medical
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: treatments in the entire sphere of Western medicine, alcohol, or
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: any other physiologically dependence-causing substance, Ibogaine has the unique and
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: singular ability to essentially restore the brain itself and its
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: neurochemical processes to the condition that it was in before
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: an individual ever took the first substance. So, for instance,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: with opioids, no matter how long somebody has taken opioids,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: there is published literature which says that for 80% of
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: folks who take a single dose.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: A single dose of Ibogaine?
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: A single treatment completely and fully eliminates any desire for
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: reuse as well as any semblance of opioid withdrawal syndrome.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: So for somebody who's opioid dependent, their brain can't produce
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: dopamine and serotonin. These are our instinct chemicals. They're what
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: drive eating, drinking, procreating, fighting, and running, dopamine and serotonin.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: When an opioid dependent individual can't get their pills, And
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: when they engage in what everybody thinks is just depraved criminality,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: what we're actually looking at are the symptoms of a
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: profound neurochemical brain injury where that person is starved for
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: dopamine and serotonin production. The brain has to be completely
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: free from opioid exposure for at least a year and
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: a half before it will begin to produce its own
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: dopamine and serotonin. So suboxone and methadone are substitute opioids.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: They're given at dosages that are lower so that an
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: individual can have a restoration of functioning without experiencing withdrawal.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: And the prolonged depression and craving that lasts sometimes for
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: years that go with the absence of opioids. Ibogaine essentially,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: in 36 to 48 hours, fully and completely restores the
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: brain's own organic dopamine and serotonin production to that which
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: existed before the person ever had their first substance. So,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: for instance, Special Forces veterans. We've been at war for
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: 25 years now. We have thousands of young men and
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: women who have returned home with wounds to their mind, body,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: and soul. They have gone through the Veterans Administration, which
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: has at its disposal all the synthetic pharmacology that the
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: big pharma industry has produced. the sum total of which
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: is to basically numb the individual to their pain, whether
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: it's in the case of opioids, the physical pain, or
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: whether it is the emotional pain through which people get
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Prozac and Xanax and all those others that numb us
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: and anesthetize us. As these veterans would experience these repeated
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: treatment failures, for no matter how much numbing agent they
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: were given, they could not escape the consequences of physical
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: and emotional trauma of war, they became ready to end
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: their life.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Well, for sure, because I think one of the things
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: that doesn't fix your soul, I mean, your soul doesn't
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: want to be at war. Imagine like your soul is
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: built for love and for connection, and then you go
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: and are a part of something that is, you know,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: now I understand it can be good for the society
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: you're from and that that is your job and what
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: you've committed to do. and to do it well on
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: behalf of the peace of your people, right? I totally
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: understand that. But I think there's a deeper part of
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: us that doesn't want to do that at all, right?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, that part, how do you start to
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: heal that part? Because big pharma can't do that, you know?
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: The consequence of war is profound trauma. And profound trauma
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: cannot be resolved through medications that do nothing other than
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: numb you to the consequences of that trauma. It is
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: still there.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: 30,177 suicides amongst U.S. service members and veterans of the
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: post-911 wars.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: The study finds that at least four times as many
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: active duty personnel and war veterans of post-911 conflicts have
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: died of suicide than in combat, and an estimated 30,177
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: have died by suicide. The report notes that the increasing
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: rates of suicide for both veterans and active duty personnel
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: are outpacing those of the general population. an alarming shift
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: as suicide rates among service members have historically been lower
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: than the suicide rates among the general population. Um, the
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: report finds that these high suicide rates are caused by
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: multiple factors, including risks inherent to fighting in any war,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: such as high exposure to trauma, stress, military culture, and training, um,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: and the difficulty of reintegrating into civilian life. Uh, But
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: the study also finds there are factors unique to the
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: post 9-11 era, including a huge increase in exposure to
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: improvised explosive devices, IED, and an attendant rise in traumatic
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: brain injuries. Wow.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: So as veterans are returning from war with traumas that
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: could not in any way be adequately addressed by the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: treatment options that we have, there were people who had
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: traveled to Gabon who had come into contact with the
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: weedy knowledge of the restorative effects that Iboga and Ibogaine
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: can produce. And they set up shop south of the
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: border in Mexico. And slowly but steadily, veterans in the
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: late 2000s, early 2010s, started going to Mexico to get
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: Ibogaine treatment as the Hail Mary passed to save their lives.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: Veterans were in 2010, they started going. Late 2000s, early 2010s.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Got it. this dynamic of veterans returning home, hearing word
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: of mouth about Ibogaine, thinking this sounds crazy and out
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: of this world, but I'm going to kill myself.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: And I've got to do something to see if I
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: can get some relief. Well, as they came back, you know,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: steadily an increase in numbers, there became this recognition that
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: these veterans who were being treated with some cases, dozens
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: of prescriptions, taking handfuls of pills every day for conditions
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: that were not being effectively treated with this bombardment of
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: synthetic pharmacology were returning with these miracle stories of recovery
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: that just sounded too good to be true. Not only
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: had they essentially obtained relief from treatment-resistant anxiety and depression,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: post-traumatic stress, and had seen a restoration in their ability
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: to function globally, but they were no longer substance dependent.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: They were not substance dependent on the alcohol that they
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: were drinking to kill their pain, didn't want no more
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: of it, and they didn't need to take all those
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: drugs that had been prescribed through the VA system produced
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: by Big Pharma. They were lip restored individuals who had
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: been liberated from all of those chemical logical dependencies. A
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: philanthropist wanted to understand What was going on to explain
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: what sounded like miraculous recovery experiences? And the question was,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: is there anything to this or is this the placebo effect?
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: These guys just gone down there. They've had some sort of,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: you know, they've had some sort of psychological experience. And
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: it's just flipped this switch. It's made them see things different.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: What is going on? So in 2018, a researcher by
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: the name of Dr. Nolan Williams, who is a neuropsychiatrist
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: at Stanford University, collected a cohort of 30 veterans who
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: were ready to end their lives, who were suffering from
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: the effects of post-traumatic stress, treatment-resistant anxiety and depression, as
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: well as traumatic brain injury. And each of these veterans,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: through an organization called VETS, or Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: were about to go to Mexico to get Ibogaine treatment.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: So Dr. Williams and his team conducted MRI images of
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: the brains of these veterans before treatment so that they
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: would have a comparison to make after treatment. Simultaneously, they
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: constructed this enormous database of hundreds of thousands of MRI
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: images of healthy brains covering the adult lifespan so that
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: there would be a baseline by which to compare the
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: veterans as they both before and after their treatment. After
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: the The results were produced and compiled and generated by Dr.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: Williams's team. He looked at them and he had everything
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: deleted and told his team to go back and start
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: from scratch because he thought the results were the result
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: of a tremendous calculation error. And he told his team,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: there's no way this is correct. delete everything, go back
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: and rerun all of your data, and let's see if
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: what you have produced is replicated. And sure enough, it was.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: And what the data showed was this. As you may know,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: there's not a single pill, medication, or treatment somebody can
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: get that will regenerate brain tissue. When it's gone, it's gone.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: In the cases of these veterans, the white matter that
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: covers the surface of our brains is the highway across
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: which all of our thoughts and impulses travel, grew and
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: thickened in size. The centers of the brain responsible for
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: emotional regulation and executive functioning grew in size. And according
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: to Dr. Williams, the average reversal of brain age among
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: the cohort of 30 veterans is one and a half years,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: with the top group of five seeing a reversal of
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: brain age of almost five years. All the little black
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: dots that were on the pretreatment MRIs, which indicated dead
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: brain tissue from traumatic brain injury, were gone on the
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: post-treatment MRIs. Theo, this came from a single treatment for
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: each of these 30 men. And the symptoms of treatment-resistant anxiety, depression,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: and post-traumatic stress for 88% of them was incomplete and
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: total remission six months out. They continued to be monitored.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: All of them experienced a significant increase in their ability
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: to just function and exist in day-to-day life. And in
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: almost every case, none of them had to go back
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: on any of the medications that were given to them
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: through the VA system. Marcus Luttrell, who, as you may know,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: is a lone survivor who was portrayed by Mark Wahlberg,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: is probably the most notable living example of what Ibogaine
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: can do to restore the mind, body, and soul of
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: the traumatized individual, whether that trauma was produced by war
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: or through the horrors of a terrible childhood captive to
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: parents or no parents and who were just left to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: be raised by the coarse hands of this world. He
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: is somebody who exemplifies what it can do to reorient
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: an individual's relationship with themselves and the world and to
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: produce an entirely new reality. that is rooted in their
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: human divinity.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Wow. And that's Marcus Luttrell?
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with him. He's a living man?
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: He is a living man. He's a big living man
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Marcus Luttrell, he began training for the U.S. Navy SEALs
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: at the age of 14. Enlisted in the U.S. Navy
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: in March 1999. He went to BUDS, became a Navy SEAL.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Deployed to Afghanistan with SEAL Team 10. involved in a
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: lot of operations. His SEAL team was ambushed. Only Luttrell survived. Wow.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: He was awarded the Navy Cross for his actions during
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: the operation. Man. Yeah, I know you mentioned, and thank
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: you for your service, Mr.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: Luttrell.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to meet that guy. He sounds
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: very interesting. And so you guys had an experience recently
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: in Texas where you were able to achieve some.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: Litigation, right? Or was it litigation or was it?
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: It was the passage of the largest single public investment
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: for psychedelic research and medical development in all of history.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: And we got it done in the state of Texas.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: It was the successful completion of the project that I
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: began in Kentucky. We began our conversation discussing me coming
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: into the role of running the Opioid Commission in that state.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: I had proposed that we take $ 42 million of the
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: state's opioid settlements to get Abigain through the FDA's drug
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: development process as a breakthrough therapeutic for opioid dependency because
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: of what it can do within 36 to 48 hours
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: to essentially fully resolve any withdrawal from opioids. That project
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: was terminated. Well, let me back up. That project received
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: great bipartisan support while it was under consideration in Kentucky. Yes, sir.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: And I am convinced that if it had gone to
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: a ballot vote the way they do in California for
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: different initiatives, people in Kentucky would have voted for it 60-40.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: But unfortunately, that state has a history whereby its power
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: structure oftentimes serves itself first and foremost, often to the
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: detriment of everyday people. And in the case of Ibogaine
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: in Kentucky, that's exactly what happened.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Even in a state that was so afflicted by the
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: opioid epidemic?
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: That's correct, because you have some people in power there
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: who have profited handsomely off of their association with the
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: creators of the opioid epidemic. For instance, current Kentucky Governor
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: Andy Beshear and his father, Steve Beshear, were partners in
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: a law firm called Steinzen Harbison. While Steinzen Harbison represented
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: Purdue Pharma, and their litigation against the people of Kentucky.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: A case that was worth $ 1 billion was settled for
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: a measly $ 24 million just days before Andy Beshear became
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: the Attorney General of Kentucky.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: Wow, so that feels like, allegedly, there is some stink
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: to it, because that should have been a much bigger settlement.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Should have been a much bigger settlement, and there certainly
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: should have been some examination and interrogation in connection with
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: how that settlement came to pass.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: Break up a picture of Mr. Beshear, just so I
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: even know what he looks like. So often we have
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: people making choices for us, and we just don't get
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: a gander at them. Look at this fellow right there,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: and where is he from?
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: He is the son of former Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: He is a guy who I think you and I, Theo,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: grew up around a lot. Born on third base, thinks
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: he hit a triple, likes to talk a lot about
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: his religiosity, his positions in the church house, and likes
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: to do a whole lot of using performative public piety
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: to hide what happens behind them closed doors at the capitol.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just unfortunate. I don't understand how you wouldn't
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: give every opportunity for your people, especially in a state
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: that was so devastated. Yeah, I was born in Louisville,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: went to Vanderbilt. That's a bummer. I mean, Vanderbilt's great,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: but I just think he would, you know, that just
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: bums me out because it's here in town. So he
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: was just milling around here. He was hired by the
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: law firm Stites and Harbison Law.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're not going to see that on his Wikipedia entry. Oh,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: they won't put that on there. They're not going to
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: draw the fine line of association between he and his daddy,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: their law firm in Purdue Pharma. They're going to try
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: to run him for president in 2028.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: Did that really happen?
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: That really happened.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Well, just Google it. Andy Beshear did Stites and Harbison.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: Beshear, the governor's office points out, worked for Louisville-based Stites
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: and Harbison, the law firm representing Purdue Pharma, against the
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: people of Kentucky. Wow, there we go.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: I can't believe $ 24 million.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: It's grotesque.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking $ 24 million was an awfully low amount,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Robinson said. I mean, look at what Oklahoma got, and
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: they haven't been hit with the crisis we have. Let
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: me see. Stumbo goes further in his criticism of the
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: cases handling by both of his successors and lends credibility
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: to an attack being levied by Republican Governor Matt Bevin,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: who has raised conflict of interest questions surrounding Beshear and Conway. Bashir,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: the governor's office points out, worked for Louisville-based Seitz & Harbison,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: the law firm representing Purdue Pharma against the state, before
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: being elected attorney general in 2015. So he worked for
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: the law firm representing Purdue Pharma against the state.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: So he worked for Purdue Pharma.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: He worked for the law firm that worked for Purdue Pharma.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: And Theo, I am a lawyer. I went to law school.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: I was a partner in a couple of law firms,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: and I can tell you, any law partner who draws
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: a partner's draw from a firm is receiving cash from
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: its collective clientele. There's not one pot of cash that
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: comes from one client to one lawyer and another pot
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: of cash that goes from one lawyer to another, particularly
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: in an insurance defense firm like Steins and Harbison. There's
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: one big communal pot of money. So if Stinson Harbison
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: is making money representing Purdue Pharma against the people of Kentucky,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: as partners in that law firm, Steve and Andy Beshear
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: were making money off of Stinson Harbison representing Purdue Pharma
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: against the people of Kentucky. And that is the very
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: best that can be said for the situation. I mean, allegedly,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: that would be how it would work. But then how
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: does he get over to represent? How does he retire
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: from there and just get to come into office? Well,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: it's his dad who retires. His dad retires as governor.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: He goes back into law practice and then Andy becomes
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: the attorney general. In the meantime, while his daddy's governor,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: the firm's representing Purdue Pharma. And when Andy goes in
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: to be attorney general, the firm is still representing Purdue Pharma.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: You see how all that works? And lawyers would tell you, oh,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: we have these ethical rules and we didn't talk about
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: it and we didn't discuss it. What was it that
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: we talked about in terms of how evil operates? It
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: does so with the respectability of white collars, suits, and
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: fancy degrees. I think that we can see what underlying
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: reality might be as opposed to what's presented.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like there certainly would be a
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: conflict of interest there to me. That's what that does
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: feel like. But did he get elected to attorney general?
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: He was elected to be the attorney general.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: So the people voted on it?
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: They didn't know about this. So at the time that
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: he was running for attorney general, state media did not
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: in any way confirm or advertise the fact that Andy
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Beshear was a law partner at the firm that was
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: representing Purdue Pharma while he was running for attorney general.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: This was not a fact that came out before he
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: was elected. He was elected by, I think, a thousand
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: votes in that election. And he received criticism from then-Governor
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: Matt Bevin for the relationship and essentially Governor Bevin's criticisms,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: as you saw, they were repeated by one of the
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: state's paper. But that relationship has never received any sort
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: of real in-depth examination or investigation. Hopefully that'll happen before
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: he runs for president in 28.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: That's pretty fascinating. And so who's the governor now?
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: Governor is Andy Beshear.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: So he went from being attorney general to being governor.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: And now he is talked about as a top tier
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: candidate for president in 2028. And anybody who listens to
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: this show just needs to know He was a law
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: partner at the law firm that represented Purdue Pharma against
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: his own people while he was a partner there.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: And then that settlement happened. And then recently after that settlement,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: he ended up as attorney general.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: That is correct.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: Dang, dude. What?
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: So this is not a Democrat or Republican issue, though.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: This is a bipartisan issue. Oh, yeah.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's at this point, it's become the
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: people versus the government. It's neither one of these sides.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: I think we've started to realize, certainly here on this show,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: is that Nobody has our interest. Very few people, it
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: feels like, have our interest anymore. It's us against both
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: of them. It feels like 95% of the time. It
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: is scary.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: It is the conflict between those of us who recognize
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: that we are of God versus those of us who
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: aim to play God. That is the conflict. And there
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: are members of both parties on each team. And what's
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: important in the here and now is that those of
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: us who recognize that we are of God, regardless of
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: what we call ourselves, gay, straight, trans, black, white, purple, green, red, rich, poor,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: middle class, we are all one human family under the
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: hand of our benevolent, loving creator whose stardust runs through
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: our veins. And it is us versus every other hand
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: that would seek to control and separate us from each other.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: Amen, man. Yeah, it's time for people who believe to
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: rise up, I believe, you know? And I don't mean
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: that at any, like, yeah, anybody, because it's like, how
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: much more proof do you need that they're trying to extinguish, like,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: what makes us us, you know? That they're, like, how much, like,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: what other proof do we need, you know? It's dark.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: So you had the convergence of Democrats and Republicans in Kentucky.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: The current Kentucky governor, the current Kentucky attorney general, Democrat
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: and Republican, came together with the University of Kentucky to
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: kill the Ibogaine Project there in that state. I came
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: to work for a foundation called the Reed Foundation, whose founder,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: Rex Elsass, had a son who he lost to a
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: fentanyl overdose in 2019. His name was Reed. And the
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Reed Foundation stands for Reaching Everyone in Distress. Went to
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: work with them for about, a year and a half
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: looking for a state that would have the sort of
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: leadership with the vision and courage to take this on.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: And then in the fall of 2024, I reached out
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: to former Texas Governor Rick Perry, who had supported me
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: in the Kentucky campaign, and advised him that I had
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: been contacted by some stakeholders in the state of Texas
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: who said, hey, our state passed a $ 2 million psilocybin
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: research project back in 2021 called House Bill 1802. And
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: Texas has a $ 16 billion budget surplus for its 2025
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: legislative session. What do you think Texas's next big project
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: around the advancement of psychedelics should be? And my answer was,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: Texas needs to finish the job that I started in Kentucky.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: So once I received confirmed interest that there were some
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: legislators who would be willing to do that, I reached
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: out to former Texas Governor Rick Perry, and I said, Governor,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: I have— I'm not from your state. I ain't no Texan.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: But here's the telephone call I've had. What do you think?
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: He said, you know, I've tried to stay out of
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: the way since my great successor came into office in 2015.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: But if you're telling me that you're willing to come
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: to Texas and help make Ibogaine a reality here, I'm
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: ready to get back in the scene. And so, Theo,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: as we sit here, Texas is just a little under
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: one month out. And Governor Abbott has haven't signed. the
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: single largest public investment in psychedelic research and medical development
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: in all of history, and that is $ 50 million to
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: create a public-private partnership to see Ibogaine developed as a
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: breakthrough therapeutic for substance use disorder, co-occurring alcohol use disorder,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: and any other mental health or neurological conditions for which
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: it demonstrates efficacy. Wow.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: Can that include gambling, sex and love addiction? It could
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: be a lot of types of addiction, do you believe?
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: There are individuals who have gone in for Ibogaine treatment
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: with substance dependencies, have come away with the unintended reality
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: of having some behavioral compulsions broken as well. It is
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: an all-purpose addiction interrupter, which seems to give a person
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: a window. to basically reorient their relationships with substances and
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: behaviors in a way which they have the control of
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: choice rather than being driven by compulsion.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: So when you say that they have a window, what
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: does that window look like that's created by Ibogaine and
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: the experience from Ibogaine, like after Ibogaine? You get back
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: home after your Ibogaine, right? What does that window look like,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: feel like? How do you best operate within that window
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: as someone who's just gone under the– under the influence
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: of the medication.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: So there's another researcher by the name of Dr. Gul Dolan, D-O-L-E-N.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: Gul Dolan, it's a woman?
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: Woman. She has Turkish background, and she has published research
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: around what is called the reopening of the brain's critical period.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: When we are children, from birth until about three years old,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: our brains are very malleable, as you previously discussed. And
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: the things that we experience make a significant impression upon
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: us during those first three years, which is when people
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: like you and I have had a series of what
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: they call the ACEs, or Adverse Childhood Experiences, they can
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: make a significant impact that become manifest in behaviors in
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: adulthood that can be destructive. What Dr. Dolan has been
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: able to do is quantify the reopening of the brain's
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: critical period that can be triggered by different plant medicines.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: that basically put us back in the same state of
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: malleability within the brain that existed when we were born.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: So this is an exceptional opportunity to rewire the brain
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: for new habits, thoughts, and behaviors. Dr. Dolan has been
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: able to acquire that among all the psychedelics or plant
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: medicines that Ibogaine opens up the critical period for the
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: brain for the longest period of time among them all.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: So if we think about medicalizing Ibogaine, As a treatment
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: that we would introduce through the United States substance use
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: and mental health care infrastructure, we are talking about a
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: profound opportunity to revolutionize how we treat trauma, addiction, as
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: well as a host of other neurological conditions that adversely
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: impact the brain for which we have no effective treatment.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: There's another researcher I'll mention by the name of Dr.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: Dalibor Samish. And that's D-A-L-I-B-O-R-S-A-M-E-S. He is a genius neurochemist
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: with Columbia University, and he has coined a phrase called
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: matrix pharmacology to describe Ibogaine's effects. His goal is to
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: apply artificial intelligence to pull apart this extremely complex molecule
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: so that it can be specialized to address conditions of
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: the brain for which we have no good answers. Among
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: those would be Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, Lyme disease, and
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: and perhaps even multiple forms of dementia, among which Alzheimer's
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: is one. The matrix pharmacology, as Dr. Samish explains, is
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: unparalleled in the annals of modern science. So what began
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: as an understanding of profound spiritual significance attached to this
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: alkaloid by the West African Bwiti peoples, translated into knowledge
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: of its addiction interruption properties within the U.S. countercultural of
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: the 60s, has now emerged as an opportunity to create
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: a number of therapeutic breakthroughs across conditions that are literally hobbling,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: if not ending the lives of millions of people within
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: the United States and around the world.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: This is a once in a multiple lifetime opportunity to
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: change the future trajectory of medical history in a way
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: that can lift up and improve the lives of millions
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: of people alive and yet to be born.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: And are there recommendations when you leave the facility that
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: they're like, this is what you should do. These are
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: things you should do in the next month here, like
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: in this window. What do they recommend? Or is it
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: just that you go back into your life and you're
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: so relieved not having these things that finally the new
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: things you've already been trying to do are better able
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: to take hold?
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, Ibogaine provides a beginning. That beginning requires... ongoing long-term
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: engagement with support services that can maximize its potential to
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: allow a person to essentially recreate who they are on
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: the basis of new thoughts, behaviors, and relationships that can
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: help them redefine their future in a way that is
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: entirely different from their past. If we find ourselves prisoner
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: to patterns of thinking, just think about it like a
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: ski slope. When a ski slope opens, people go down
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: the same slope thousands of times over the course of
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: a season. That ski slope becomes almost ice. The pathway
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: is frozen in. What Ibogaine does is like a big
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: blizzard coming through that dumps a whole bunch of fresh
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: snow on all of those paths that previously had been
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: entrenched in ice and were unmovable. You have an opportunity
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: to create entirely new pathways. But if you take somebody,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: so for instance, with the generation that I come from,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: I think you might be about a half a step
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: behind me. I'm Generation X, and I'm going to be
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: 50 years old in October. We are the children of
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: a great social experiment. And that social experiment saw the
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: dissolution of families for 50% of us who are alive.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: We've never known anything by way of a familial relationship
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: that we didn't choose to create on our own. We
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: had families created around us in the aftermath of divorce.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: Some of us have had no families at all and
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: have been allowed to essentially free roam the world and
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: to be raised by its calloused hands. That is why
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: we see the symptomatology of disconnection as expressed through the
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: fatal deaths of despair that we've talked about here today.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: With a recognition that these are our generational realities, the
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: opportunity before us is likewise a generational opportunity to put
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: a fresh coat of snow across our whole society, whereby
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: we get to reform who we are and how we
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: will relate to each other in the aftermath of what
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: has been generational trauma.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've walked out of plant medicine ceremonies and be like, man,
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: this could change the whole world. You know, this could
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: literally change the whole world because it just brings you
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: back such like to what you're here for it. Like,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Just takes all the bullshit away.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: When the opioid epidemic began, you had individuals who were
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: going in to have legitimate medical conditions treated who came
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: out on the other side of that treatment as dependent individuals.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: I'll use a story of a young woman whose name
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to use a pseudonym for. And I heard
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: about this lady in a town hall I conducted in
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: Kentucky when I was running the commission. We wanted to
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: hear from communities about how the money should be spent.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: Instead of just making the decision on our own and
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: spending it. So in one of these town halls, I
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: heard about the story of a young woman by the
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: name of Tamara. And this lady who told her story
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: had met her as a volunteer at a clinic for
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: the survivors of childhood sexual abuse. She met a young
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: girl named Tamara when Tamara was 10. Tamara had been
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: horrifically sexually abused by one of her family members for years. Mm-hmm.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: She had to undergo a series of reconstructive surgeries because
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: of the physical trauma that this family member had inflicted
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: upon her. As she had these surgeries, she was given
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: opioids to treat her pain. This volunteer lost touch with
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: Tamara after she had come to this clinic over the
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: course of a couple of years. So after about age 12,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: she went off. went back to the family that was
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: going to take proper care of her, and she didn't
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: see her again. This volunteer, several years later, was going
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: in to provide yoga therapy to inmates at the Perry County,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: Kentucky County Jail. And she said one day she was
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: in there providing yoga therapy, and she noticed this young
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: woman who was kind of standoffish and withdrawn under herself,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: but she had this look of familiarity to her. So
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: she walked over and said, what's your name? You look
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: familiar to me. And the young woman looked at her
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: and she said, my name's Tamara. And she said, I
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: know who you are. And she refreshed her memory about
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: the context of their relationship and where they had met.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: And the volunteer said, she looked at her and she said,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: how did you end up here? Because her last reference
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: was this little 12-year-old girl who she had worked to
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: overcome the trauma of sexual abuse. She said Tamara looked
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: up at her and she said, well, you remember I
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: had to have a series of surgeries and was given opioids.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: And she said because, you know, while I got past
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: my physical pain, I never got past the emotional pain
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: that came with all the memories of what I can
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: recall happened to me. And I kept taking the pills
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: because the pills could give me some relief from that
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: unending pain. Of those memories. And she said, I got busted.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: So a young woman who was traumatized at the age
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: of 10 was treated for legitimate medical injury with opioids,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: found herself met by a system that imprisoned her for
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: how she had to continue to treat her pain. Because
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: there was no other effective choice for her to kill
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: the affliction that was on her inside. There are millions
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: of people locked up behind bars in this country who
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: have had similar experiences. The fact that trauma and addiction
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: have been met with the butt end of a gun
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: in some jail is a criminal result for a society
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: that is dying for restoration. Right. And what we're here
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: to talk about and what we have been talking about
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: is an opportunity to pursue that restoration. And I thank
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: God that, however, I have come to sit in this seat.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: This opportunity is here. It is now. And I aim
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: to do everything I can to serve it as best
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: Amen. With that said, how do we best move forward
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: from here? Right. How do we best move forward to
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: do you feel like like I mean, Texas is granted
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: 50 million dollars towards restoration. But will most of that
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: go towards lobbying? What will that go towards? Is there
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: enough science behind it now? Or is it like how
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: are you going to defeat Big Pharma? Like there's obviously
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: these giants that you're up against, you know? Because it's true.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, as long as we have a problem,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: then they have a medication. If you can't figure that out,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: then you, you know, a lot of times those people still,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: the trauma's not healed, they end up in the correctional system.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: It's all a big, root. It's all just a big
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: circle of humans just being like, it's just this profit
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: sharing between these kind of dark artist entities. And I
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: agree with you. It feels like we have a pathway
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: now to solution here to actually have a chance to
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: get back to our roots of humanity and being connected
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: to a divine power. and I believe that it's through
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: medications like this. How do you get from this judgment
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: that's happened in Texas, how do you move forward from here?
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: How do we best move forward from here, do you
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: feel like?
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you the answer. But before I
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: give you the answer, I'm going to ask you a question.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: If someone had said to you just a year ago,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: the state of Texas is going to pass the largest
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: single public investment ever, to advance psychedelic research and medical development,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: what would you have said?
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: I would have said I could see it.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now that Joe Rogan is down there, I could
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: see shit like that starting to happen.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: This is before Joe Rogan. Take yourself before Joe Rogan,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: before all this became a thing. If somebody had said
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: the state of Texas is going to give the biggest
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: bunch of money that the government has ever given for
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: psychedelic research, what would you have thought?
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: I would have honestly thought, I would have thought that
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: it was possible, I think. I mean, I know you
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: have a lot of people that stick to their guns
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: down there in Texas, but I believe that also we've
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: gotten to a place where people that normally would stick
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: to their guns, that people are desperate for something new, right?
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: And Texas, I feel like, has always been a bit
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: of a pioneer state, even though there's a lot of
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: tradition in it. It's been a proud state of doing
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: things on its own. And so here's what I would say.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I would think that they would,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: But I would hope that they would channel that pioneer
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: spirit into something. I could see that enough of the
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: story would have gotten around where they'd have been like,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: this is something that we could do.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: What Texas has done, in my opinion, what we have
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: done in Texas is make the improbable inevitable. However, inevitability
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: requires work. Texas is the beginning of what Governor Perry
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: and I hope to build by way of the unstoppable
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: external force of a national movement whereby Texas has planted
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: its flag to begin the medical development of Ibogaine. And
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: over the next 18 to 24 months, we'll see anywhere
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: from six to 12 additional states emerge to partner with it.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: to make the medicalization of Ibogaine within the United States
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: the Manhattan Project of our time. Governor Perry has founded
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: an organization called AmericansForIbogaine.org, and it is my honor to
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: be the very first chief executive officer of that organization.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: He's the chairman of the board, and he and I
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: are going to spend every last measure of everything that
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: we are pouring ourselves into making Ibogaine a medical reality
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: within the United States as quickly and safely as we
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: possibly can. Amen, brother.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: You think you can get it done?
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: I think that Governor Perry and I exist to make
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: the improbable inevitable. And as long as we have the
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: good hands and hearts of people like you and those
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: who follow you engaged in this mission with us, using
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: their voices, using their network, using their social media to
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: make the demand that a federal system that has been
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: corrupted for at least 30 years begin to reorient itself
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: toward basic humanity and to the restoration of our society
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: so that people with trauma and addiction can get help
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: that can be transformative as a prelude. to transforming our
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: broader society, the time is now. I agree. We've got
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: the need, we've got the opportunity, and we've got the answer.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: And now we just got to get on it.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're going to be up against the dark arts,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: you know. They're going to battle against you, but this
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: is how we meet up and this is how we fight,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: you know. I think that all we can do is
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: just tell the truth, you know. Yeah, my experience with
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: plant medicine has been that it's nothing like taking drugs.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: It's like taking a chance. It's like taking an opportunity
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: to give yourself something new. That has certainly been my
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: own experience. First of all, where can people go right
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: now if they need help, if someone in their family
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: needs help, if they want to try Ibogaine? Because that
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: is also going to create the message, right, is people
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: being able to go and get this help. Where can
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: people go to get the help right now?
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: Here's why I'm going to have to answer this in
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: the negative, because there are a lot of options out there,
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: and I've got to be careful because I don't want
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: to misdirect somebody to a place where they may or
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: may not have experiences. I can tell you that my
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: wife and I, we are personally familiar with the Beyond
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: Clinic in Cancun.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: The Beyond Clinic, you said? Yes.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: The Ambio Clinic that is south of Tijuana. We both
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: have experiences there. I can't endorse... I can't say, yeah, yeah,
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: this is where you should send your family. I can
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: just simply say that my wife and I have been
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: to both places, and each of them offer their own experiences.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: Your audience can do their own personal research. They can
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: call and see what works best for them. In terms
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: of what we need by way of the movement within
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: the society.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how can we best help? How can listeners of
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: this episode best help? People that feel inspired, people that
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: have had a family member that's been positively affected by
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: psychedelic medicine to overcome things. How can we help?
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: Please go to americansforibogaine.org, and it is there that your
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: audience member can follow the odyssey that we are undertaking.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: They can sign up to receive regular updates. They can
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: sign up for social media. They can become not just
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: an observer but an active participant in helping us advance
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: this mission to create the unstoppable external force that's going
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: to break down the walls of the federal government to
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: make this society have what it should have for restoration.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, I would just encourage individuals to
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: be individual pollinators of our culture. Get the word out.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: Take what you see on Americans for Ibogaine, Oregon. Blast
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: it through your social media networks. Tell your friends, family,
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: and neighbors. Because just as individuals went into the medical
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: system and received OxyContin and came out as harbingers of
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: the disaster to come, a disaster that has claimed almost
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: the lives of a million Americans since OxyContin was approved
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: in December of 1996. We have the opportunity to do
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: the exact opposite by creating a genuine emancipation medication that
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: can take and reverse the process of subjugation to one
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: of restoration. That is the opportunity that is before us.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: And that is one, if we will be good and
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: faithful servants, we can see come to pass within our life. Amen.
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: God, I'm in. I need help. I think I need
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: to go sometime to get a treatment, man.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: Well, if a person does not need to come to
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: the table with a substance problem or even with a
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: wartime trauma problem, every single person in life has a problem.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: And even if that problem doesn't debilitate you, even if
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: you're a highly successful individual, The I began experience is
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: one that has the capacity to optimize the human experience
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: if it is approached with reverence and if it is
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: properly supported as the beginning that it is rather than
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: the destination. I saw, and this will be the last
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: thing that I would have to offer you independently. Okay.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure that I get it out there.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: I remember in 2018, I went to a community center
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: where there was a fatherhood program led by a gentleman
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: named David Cozart. David Cozart is an associate minister at Lexington,
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: Kentucky's second largest black Baptist church called Bracktown Baptist.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: David Cozart.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: David Cozart. And he leads what's called the Commonwealth Center
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: for Fathers and Families. I first met David in 2018
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: and I met him at this community center and he
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: was taking me on a tour of the fatherhood program
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: that he runs to connect youth to their fathers. And, um,
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: within the context of that tour, I saw this Bible verse.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: And it struck me like a bolt of lightning when
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: I read it. And it stayed in my mind from 2018,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: almost like an echo that just would not go away.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: And as this mission has appeared around Ibogaine, I go
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: back to that verse in my mind and think about
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: the reality that it demonstrates. And at this point, personally,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: in my quiet times, when I'm trying to draw the
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: energy necessary to stay focused and to be an effective
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: servant of the mission, the verse while the declaration is
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: one that I have turned into a prayer. And it's
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: a prayer that I would articulate not just for myself personally,
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: but for you, members of your audience, and other folks
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: who come into contact with this message who can embrace it.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: And that is this. I hope with everything that we
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: are doing, Governor Perry and I, with Americans for Ibogaine,
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: that we are able to hasten the day when we
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: can deliver good titans unto the meek, when we have
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: the ability to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: to the captives, and the opening of the prison to
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: them that are bound. Lord, give us the strength, give
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: us the grace, and may we succeed. Amen.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: Amen. W. Bryan. Hubbard, thank you so much, man, for
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: spending time with me today, man. Thank you for just
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: sharing the message. I feel inspired. And I do feel hope, man.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: I do feel hope. And I believe wholeheartedly, I believe
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: wholeheartedly that these medicines, medicines like Ibogaine and medicines like
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: ayahuasca are the purest opportunity we've had in a long time.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: And thank you today for being a messenger. And yeah,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: we appreciate you so much. And thank you for just
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: believing in yourself enough to go out there and fight
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: the good fight, man.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: Well, everything that I am has been given to me
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: by the grace of love from on high. And I
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: just hope that I can be the good and faithful
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: servant that's necessary to get the job done. Amen.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: Amen, brother. Thank you so much, man. We'll see you
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: in the future. And you guys can check out the
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: support for Americans for Ibogaine. We'll put all your links below.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: Best of luck to you guys out there.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: Cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: this peace of mind I found I can feel it
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: in my bones