Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 310 - For Christ's Sakes!

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 310 - For Christ's Sakes! · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Remember like Bob Clark and.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Dark Rob Clark, Joe Bordelli watched debate.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: I'm so tired of people saying, oh, did you watch
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: you debate? You know what you could debate? Dude, you
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: could debate. Geez nuts Hot.
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: Got it in the heart of Dallas for legends and souls,
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: until Shadows, mysteries and sold but truth is obscured in
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: the depths of the night. The Lone Gun and Podcast
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: sheds a flickering light.
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  Speaker 5: Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of
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  Speaker 5: nineteen seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for research, analysis, education,
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  Speaker 5: and commentary purposes. We hear at Loose Moose Productions reserve
• 0:53
  Speaker 5: that right now. On with the show. Here's Joe b
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: and the Triple b Hey Andthrew Dean, how things in Texas?
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Everything is going to hail down here in Duston.
• 1:05
  Speaker 6: Chez Joey and Joey Joey and then trumble Bee, Baby
• 1:11
  Speaker 6: jumble Be and Joby Rock Doggy shoo Red trumble Be
• 1:16
  Speaker 6: and Jomy, Joby Hen jumble Bee Baby jumbo By and
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: Joby Rock Doggy Joe Brady.
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  Speaker 3: Shining. I would is sakend and show the chef je.
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  Speaker 7: Jo and here we go.
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  Speaker 1: And here we go.
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  Speaker 3: That's right, everybody, what's up? And welcome to episode number
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  Speaker 3: three hundred and ten of the Lone Cooming Podcast. I
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: am triple Be Big Bad Bobby in the house, along
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: with the Bearded Clam himself, mountain Man Joe Relli. How
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: are you, sir?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Hey Bud, how are you happy Friday?
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: How was your week? How was my? What week?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Ben? Oh?
• 2:20
  Speaker 8: I thought he said weekend? Uh, It's been a long
• 2:24
  Speaker 8: week for sure, And I'm glad to be here with
• 2:28
  Speaker 8: you and everybody else loves to come here and hang
• 2:31
  Speaker 8: out with us on Friday night. Joe, Yes, sir, I'm
• 2:36
  Speaker 8: gonna ask you because I don't want to hear the
• 2:37
  Speaker 8: word mets.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Come out of your mouth.
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  Speaker 1: Omg, omg.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Uh. We already know how Joe's doing, everybody. He's on
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: top of the world. Ma, top of the world.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: But let's uh, let's welcome in some folks, shall we. Joe,
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  Speaker 3: We've got big tray in the house, Sree portray. What
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: buddy spirit is hanging?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Uh? Wow?
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  Speaker 3: Already before we even get started, we gotta think John,
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  Speaker 3: what's up? John? Thank you, sir, appreciate it and Jack,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: and thank you Jack, much appreciated.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: My friend, Yes, sir, thank you Jack.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, uh see, no evil is in the house. James Smith,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the man with the plane name is in the house.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Of course, thanks Joseph. Smile. Jack Taylor, we already said,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: we already thank Jack. Zendar, Hello, Zendar, what's up? Buddy?
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: The umbrella man is in the house. A rocket dream.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Colleen Scott Heave, Scott Scott is in the house, Bungles.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Then Gardening Guns is in. South to West is in Claude,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: and Andy Dene's in. Sally is here, she's in from
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: across the pond, and Paul Paul is in. Well. Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: We love hanging out with you. We've got a great
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: show for you. And we thought we'd kick it off
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: with something that happened relatively recently, and that is the
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: sixtieth anniversary of the Warren Report, that big, gigantic, heaping,
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  Speaker 3: steaming pile of crap that they want to feed to
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  Speaker 3: us as some sort of be all end all of
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: the investigation into the death of the President. Now we
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  Speaker 3: all have our personal opinions about the Warren Report and
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  Speaker 3: the accompanying twenty six volumes. Oh, thank you, Paula, thank.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: You on her way to the Texas Theater.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: That's awesome. Don't take any gun, So, Joe, without further ado,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we came across something that was kind of
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: an interesting article. So let's get into it, because, like
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: I said, it's been sixty years since the Warner reporter
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  Speaker 3: came out, of course, ten months after the assassination roughly,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: and give her take a couple of weeks here or there.
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  Speaker 3: But regardless of your opinion of it, it's you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's one of those things that it's out there. It's
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  Speaker 3: pointed at as being this is the opening, shut, hard
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  Speaker 3: truth of the case. But anybody that's actually read the
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Warren Report and the twenty six volumes knows that it's
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  Speaker 3: very of a lot of things that don't need to
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  Speaker 3: be there. It is missing a lot of things that
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  Speaker 3: do need to be there. And we can sit here
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  Speaker 3: and we can criticize the war Report all night long,
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  Speaker 3: but you know, just for the sake of brevity, like
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I said, we came across this article. Joe's going to
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: get into it with you and tell you a little
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  Speaker 3: bit more about the sixtieth anniversary of the Warrener Report
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  Speaker 3: and maybe some things we could think about it. So Joe,
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  Speaker 3: without further ado, my friend can't get.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Sure, let's do it, and uh yeah, you know. And
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: it's pretty easy in our space to criticize the Warran Commission, right, Rob, Like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: we do it weekly, right, But you know, we figured
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: instead of just doing the same old we read a
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  Speaker 1: very very short article from a lady by the name
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: of miss Scobie, and she's in a relations to Dick.
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  Speaker 1: She was a lawyer on the Warrant Commission and the
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  Speaker 1: President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, which was
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  Speaker 1: appointed by President Johnson on November thirtieth, nineteen sixty three,
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  Speaker 1: consisted of seven persons. Chief Justice of the United States
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  Speaker 1: Earl Warren. The senators were Richard B. Russell of Georgia,
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  Speaker 1: John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky. The representatives were Hail Boggs
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  Speaker 1: of Louisiana Gerald Ford of Michigan. All four were lawyers.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: There members from I guess not government, they say private life.
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  Speaker 1: Alan W. Dulles, of course, John J. McCloy, a former
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  Speaker 1: Assistant Secretary of War, a former president of the World.
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  Speaker 3: Bank, and representing the deep state.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah right, one of the many, right, And of course
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  Speaker 1: you have Jay Lee Rankin, the former Solicitor General who
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: served as General Counsel to the Commission. And yeah, so
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  Speaker 1: this article was released in January nineteen sixty five. So
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: if you go to the Warrant Commission, of course, like
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy was killed on November twenty second, nineteen
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: sixty three, the Warrant Commission didn't come out. I think
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: we're like one or a week and a half behind
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the release of it sometime in late September, it would
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: be nineteen sixty four. And in January nineteen sixty five,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: this lady who had worked on the Warrant Commission and
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  Speaker 1: wrote a very interesting article from a straight lawyer's perspective
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: on how a possible trial of Lee Harvey Oswalt would
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: have looked had he not, of course, been assassinated by
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby on the twenty fourth. ALFREDA. Scooby Scooby, Sorry,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and guys, pay attention to this because I'll probably screw
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: up a word or two. She uses a lot of
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: good vocabulary, as a good lawyer does, but she brings
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: up some very interesting points. And keep in mind she
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: is writing this from the lone nut perspective in a sense,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: so she is assuming Oswald did it. But the legal
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: points she brings up are very interesting. So at least
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: three and if our sound is a little off, mean
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: either me or Rob or high. If I'm high or low,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: or if Rob is high or low, just let us
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: know the comments. At least three marginal comments are relevant
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: to the published report of the Warrant Commission. In the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: first place, it accomplished its original purpose by assembling and
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: evaluating all ascertainable facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy.
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  Speaker 1: It has, to a large extent, laid the ghost of rumor,
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  Speaker 1: both here and abroad. Second, it has made readily available
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  Speaker 1: as to a single murder, a mass of evidence evidentiary
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  Speaker 1: material of greater magnitude than ever before, which will prove
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  Speaker 1: to be a happy hunting ground for last students for
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  Speaker 1: years to come. Third, it has lent form, death and
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  Speaker 1: historical perspective to the event in a way that catches
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  Speaker 1: some of the larger implications of our national society and
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  Speaker 1: executive officer, whoever he may be. This report has historical significance.
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  Speaker 1: Historical consciousness is a late and significant product of human civilization.
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  Speaker 1: Only in the last couple of centuries has there been
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  Speaker 1: any real philosophical analysis of specific forms of historical thought
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  Speaker 1: and comprehension of historical structure. It tells you's the lawyer right,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: rob The nature of man has been a subject of
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: investigation from the days of the Stoic. Philosopher's contemporary interpretation
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: is well summed up in the ephorism of Ortega versus Gassett.
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  Speaker 1: Man has no nature. What he has is history. Casser
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  Speaker 1: maintained that quote man is not a rational animal, but
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  Speaker 1: a symbolic animal end quote. That is, the forms of
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  Speaker 1: his cultural life cannot be compassed by reason alone, because
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  Speaker 1: the forms themselves are symbolic. While a lawyer might regret
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  Speaker 1: the philosopher's decision to omit jurisprudence from the six symbols
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  Speaker 1: which he interprets the evolution of mankind, he cannot quarrel
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  Speaker 1: with the inclusion of history as one of the most
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  Speaker 1: rewarding So viewed, the initiation by executive Order of Presidents
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  Speaker 1: of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy
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  Speaker 1: was more than the creation of another fact finding amissary
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  Speaker 1: of agency for its value lies both in and beyond
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  Speaker 1: the ascertainment of factual truth. History is molded not entirely
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  Speaker 1: by events, but by men's judgment of them. The honest, unbiased,
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  Speaker 1: factual report of materials, plus the analysis and conclusions drawn
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  Speaker 1: by trained and diverse minds, has not only discovered, but
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  Speaker 1: in a sense created history in our time. The Commission members,
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  Speaker 1: themselves an impressively literate, conscientious, and experienced group of men,
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  Speaker 1: drew their staff council from representative, geographical, and professional areas.
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  Speaker 1: But it is important to remember that the report was
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  Speaker 1: not the result of legal thinking alone. The initial organizational weakness,
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  Speaker 1: which might have resulted from the fact that investigators were
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  Speaker 1: not given any staff status, doubtless in quotations, doubtless influenced
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  Speaker 1: by an early sensitivity to public opinion and view of
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  Speaker 1: rumors that Lee Harvey Oswalt might have had prior connections
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  Speaker 1: with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, was overcome by liaison
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  Speaker 1: between the investigative agencies and staff employees, so in fact,
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  Speaker 1: finding that the legal interpretation proceeded harmoniously. But this alone
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: could not have produced the document that ultimately emerged, save
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: for the contribution of other than strictly legal viewpoints, and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the unity, depth, and significance of the Peddium owes much
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to the decision to treat the work not only as
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: an investigative but also historical, and to include on the
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  Speaker 1: staff experience historians whose point of view approaching the issues
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: from a different path offered a symbiotic climate in which
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the story could be developed. The report is thus the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: first of its kind to be simultaneously accepted as a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: scholarly historical, historical presentation, a best seller, and a work
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: of literature. Interesting next paragraph the evidentiary aspects of the report.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: This is where it gets really interesting. Guys. From a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: legal standpoint, analysis of the report, and particularly particularly of
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Chapter four stating the case against Oswalt is of special
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: interest because of its evidentiary aspects. It has become widely
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: deplored that Oswald was killed before he could be brought
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: to trial. Our basic emotional and intellectual demands that the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: concepts of due process and fair trial be observed have
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: led both lawyers and laymen to the conclusion that in
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the absence of such a trial during the life time
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  Speaker 1: of the accused, Lee Harvey Oswald, carrying with it the
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: defendant's right to procure and present his own side of
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the story, something will be lacking in the conclusion reached.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: So she's saying, because he never wants a trial, there
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  Speaker 1: will always kind of be questions. Had this document set
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  Speaker 1: out to be a brief for the prosecution, that would
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: indeed have been true. Since it is not. The fact
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  Speaker 1: is in its capable that the report, although crammed with
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: facts that would not be admissible on the trial of
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: a criminal case, sets out the whole picture in a
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: perspective a criminal trial could never achieve. So she's saying,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: like the things that are included in the warrant commission,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of it would never be actually admissible in
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a criminal trial. Collateral to the subject is the emphasis
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: on the prejudice to the right of fair trial and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: its effects of the admissibility of evidence of the premature
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: divulgence of material by the press and local law enforcement
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: agents at the time of Oswalt's first attention, including statements
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: made by Oswalt's wife, Marina as to his ownership of
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the assassination weapon and other facts sub suspects, refusal to
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: take a polygraph test, and results of a thoroughly discredited
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: paraffin test purporting to be proof of the fact that
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Oswalt had recently fired a gun, and the statements of
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: police officers and prosecuting officials that they considered they had
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: an air tight case against him. The report properly concludes
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: that while there was a legitimate area of inquiry within
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the scope of the public's right to know, neither the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: press nor the public had the right to be contemporaneously
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: informed by the police or prosecuting authorities of the details
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of the evidence being accumulated against Oswalt. The courtroom, not
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the newspaper or television screen, is the appropriate forum in
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: our system for the trial of a man accused of
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: a crime. So what evidence would be missible? Well, apart
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: from this, and from the well documented conclusion that Oswaldt
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: was not denied the right to counsel, interesting question remains
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: as to the characters of which of the evidence, which,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: from the maze of materials set out in the transcript
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of the commission hearings and in the exhibits, properly could
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: have been adduced against him on trial had he lived
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to stand trial. There must first be deleted the testimony
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: of his wife, Marino for although she testified on three
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: occasions and was questioned by the press and investigative agencies
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: on scores of other times, it is difficult to find
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: any statement which would not be more hurtful than helpful
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to her husband. Under Texas law, the wife and husband
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and wife may in all criminal actions witnesses for each other,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: but they shall in no case testify against each other,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: except in a criminal prosecution for an offense committed by
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: one against the other. So she's saying here that because
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: it's called marital privilege, that is the legal protection which
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: protects spouses from testifying against each other. Right, You've seen
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: some of those movies rob where it might have been
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: in the Sopranos too, where it's like, let's get married,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: so I can't testify against you, like you know what
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: And she would, Yeah, Marina would have been totally useless
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: in a criminal trial because they couldn't make her testify
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: against him exactly and little and you take away a
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: lot of things that she said regarding the pictures, the
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: rightful walk he was doing, where he was, what he said,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: throw that all out the window. What they don't really
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: have much.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Left right, right, And it would be really interesting because
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you can, like I was envisioning this week, like say
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Lee had lived, and you have him on the defendant's table,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and you have someone like Mark Lane, right, I'm not
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: saying him, but someone like him, like defending him, right,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And then on the other table, on the prosecution side,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you have Raskin, Belin ball Leebler right, like probably likes ranking.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Oh well, Rankin, I'm sorry, that's the that's the that's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: the congressman Rankin.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: You'd have a whole list of of prosecutors lined up, right,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: so it would be stacked definitely against his favor. But
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: without Marina's testimony, it's a lot of things that they
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that the Warrant Commission assumed would not be admissible in
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: a fair and to.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Joe, everything he supposedly said in custody without having a
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: lawyer present, probably couldn't be used in a court of law.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: So you throw that out, you throw Marina's testimony out,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: you're not really left with a whole lot. Yeah, you
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: really require the Dallas police to actually do police work,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: which they did not actually like doing.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very true. So it's very interesting because of course,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: like she's very pro war commissioned. But she's looking at
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: this from like a straight lawyer angle, and so let
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: me just finish with this here. Considering the transcript and exhibit,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: oh I said that under Texas law, district criminal transactions
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: are never admissible unless falling within some well established exception
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of the general rule. They must tend to connect the
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: defendant with the offense for which he is on trial
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: for as part of a general and composite transaction. It
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: might be argued that the Walker and Kennedy incidents both
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: showed a senseless antagonism against public figures and thus lent
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: credence to otherwise implausible conduct. A sort of extension of
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the motive exception, which is however, ordinarily confined to sex
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: crimes or modus operande is another exception, but sharp differences
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: exist between the two crimes. The extended advanced planning and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: attention given to the escape routes in the Walker affair,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the differing ideological ideological images of the victims, which makes
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Walker's demise more understandable within the framework of Oswalt's known
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: thinking than was President Kennedy's. And she's kind of saying
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: it would make sense based on ideology that Oswalt would
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: shoot at Walker before he would shoot at Kennedy. In
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: any event, it is perfectly obvious that absent his wife's testimony,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the question is academic, as there is no substantial evidence
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: on which an attempt to introduce the prior attempts could
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: be predicated, and that would also include lude the Nixon
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: allegation as well, right, which was corroborated by our boy
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Rob James Herbert Martin.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah Yeah.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Texas law demands that if evidence of the commission or
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: another crime is otherwise admissible, the rule obtains only when
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: proof of the former may be established beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: The remaining evidence the Commission found of a pervative value
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: consisted of one an undated note, which in no way
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: refers to Walker, true negative testimony of a Federal Bureau
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of Investigation expert that the retrieved but damaged bullet cannot
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: be identified as coming from the particular gum, although it
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: could have been. In quotations fired from the rifle used
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: to kill President Kennedy, and three photographs of the Walker premises.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Even as to those, the note was turned over to
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the investigating officers by Marina and cannot in absence of
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: this testimony be identified with the event, and is unclear
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: whether the photographs were also delivered by her or were
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: independently found on the premise by officers searching it. The
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Nixon incident, of course, has no other corroboration. Returning to
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the assassination itself, it was Marina Oswald who identify the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: blue jacket found in the depository building as belonging to
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: her husband, the shirt threads from which were found caught
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: in the rifle as being one she thought he were
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: to work on the morning of November twenty two, sixty three,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the white jacket found in the parking lot along Oswalt's
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: reconstructed escape route as belonging to him. That is, of course,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the Tippet murder. They're referring to the photo the photographs
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: of Oswalt with the rifle as being snapshots you took
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: at his request, and a camera found in his effects
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: as the instrument with which they were made. More important,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: she Marina alone, identified the rifle as the one as
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: which he owned, and testified that she had seen him
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: practice with it, that it had been moved from New
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Orleans to Dallas, and Ruth Payne's station wagon and that
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it had been stored in a green and brown blanket
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: in the pain's garage. This is the only eyewitness testimony
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: connecting Oswalt with the assassinational weapon were definitely identifying as clothes.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Other descriptions of clothing show the usual contradictions. Marina Oswalt
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: also was the only source of a walthic background and
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: for me, including facts forming the basis of the interpretation
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: of his character, on which the quote motiveless motive. It's
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: an interesting term there, rob motiveless motive. That's kind of
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: like a Thomas Crooks thing, right, Like he would have
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: maybe shot at anyone. I think that's what they're trying
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: to say, the statement that because.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: They didn't really have a motive, right, right, right, So
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: then he's just crazy, right, so right.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: He would shoot at anyone. Nixon, JFK. Walker, Right, he
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: was just nuts like that. But then you have to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: ask why didn't he take credit for it when the
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: TV cameras were in front of his face? If that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: was his ideology, right, right?
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you just went through all this trouble,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: doing all this shit and doing the most and actually
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: doing it, he'd be bragging about not denying it, right,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, because you could pretty much say he was
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: set up so good that they just about caught the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: dude red handed. You know, he ain't getting out of it.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: So at that point, if you did it, you might
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: as well own up to it, you know, and let
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: people know, Yeah, I did it, you know, because this,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: this and that. But he denied it till his last breath.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: I believe they even had some kind of an agent
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: with him. And after he was shot in the hospital,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: you know, asking me, is there anything you want to confess,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: you know, as he's going in and out of consciousness
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: before he dies, and he didn't, yep.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: And and it also makes you think, like why did
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: he go back and get the gun from his from
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: If he had planned and was ready to assassinate the president,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: you'd have your handgun on you. He had an idea
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: he was set up, which I think is why he
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: went back and got it if he.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Did do that, And I was gonna say if he
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: did get it, and mean, it could have been a
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: police throw down weapon growing there, right.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: But I mean it's an interesting article. I know, it's
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: very complicated. I only think I screwed up one word.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: But the point is without arena, in a criminal trial,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: with the the evidence being as screwed up as it is,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: it would be hard to get a conviction without a
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: lot of the things Marina said and corroborated. So an
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: interesting take on the warrant commission from a lawyer, because
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: she's saying, like a lot of the things in the
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: warrant commission would never be admitted to a criminal case,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: like twenty six volumes, get the hell out of here,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: like no way, you would have much less information. And
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: it brings up an interesting point. And it's interesting to
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: kind of like imagine like Lee Harvey Oswell sitting at
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the defense table with a lawyer like Mark Lane going
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: against you know, the government's best lawyers. Essentially without Marina's testimony,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: what would have happened? And then I know they did
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: a mock trial at some point, but.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Well they even did one like back in the sixties.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: It's in black and white, and I think it's for
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: the trial of Lee Harvey Oswell. And it wasn't too
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: It wasn't really that much longer after the assassination. And
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: they actually have you know, like a Lee Harvey Oswell
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: actor in the courtroom m m hm, and they go
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: through bring the charges up against him and and all that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: It's pretty interesting. It's out there on YouTube, you know.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen some of it, not all of it,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: but uh yeah, bungle hearsay, I mean it's it's admissible.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: So uh, things like the Walker attempt, which you know,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Rob out of the Blank had a really good episode
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: with Larry Hancock of course, Robbie Gary Hill and Scott
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Edwards I might be screwing up his name, some guy
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: from Dealey Plaza, UK and they had.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: A great Scott Reid Scott read Scott Edwards is in
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: our comments section.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: There we go and they had a great conversation on
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: the Walker attempt and the letter and things like that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: But that definitely wouldn't have been admissible. And as Wilson
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Nixon things, so then you don't have the prior precedent
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: right of he's crazy, he's try to kill everyone, and
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: just very interesting. I thought that'd be a little change
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: because anyone can crap on the War Commission, that is easy,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and but yeah, to think about it in a different
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: way is.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Is uh, oh, what could have been? What could have been?
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I would have loved that trial that would have been
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: You think it would have been like the O. J.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Simpson trial of.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: Like have been a circus maximus.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Right, it would have been nice.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: It would have been insane. They would have had so
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: much press there. It might have been the first court
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: used to have TV cameras in it for ably know,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeah. And and the jury and the jury
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: is in a terrible spot too, write because they don't
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: want to acquit the potential assassin of the President of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the United States, right, like imagine them, you know what
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like, well, good.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Luck find and an unbiased jury of his peers, you
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying in text?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: God, ah, what a what a mess it would have been.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: You're right.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: And it's.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Convenient that he was not ever in trial. So I
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: haven't looked at the comments yet, Rob. I don't know
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: if you saw any good ones, but.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: I was throwing them up here and there.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, it doesn't went on through. I was trying to
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: know the reading of that article because she uses some
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: big words.
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: Man.
• 34:54
  Speaker 9: I was like, you made it through, okay, that like
• 34:59
  Speaker 9: the Mets, so you know, and hate I hate to
• 35:06
  Speaker 9: keep doing this, but I'm kind of stuck in the rut, folks,
• 35:11
  Speaker 9: and the rut is New Orleans. I cannot get out
• 35:14
  Speaker 9: of the New Orleans rut for some reason, and I
• 35:17
  Speaker 9: know why. It's one of my favorite parts of the
• 35:23
  Speaker 9: case to look into. There's so many colorful characters, there's
• 35:27
  Speaker 9: so many wild stories.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: And it always comes back to me believing that while
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: the assassination did happen in Dallas, that the plot was
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: hatched and born out of New Orleans. To me, it
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: just had to be when you look at what Oswald
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: was doing in New Orleans and the summer of sixty three,
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: to me, that is orchestrated movement or cattral maneuvers in
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: the dark too, you know, m and to try to
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: figure out and untangle the web of what Oswald was doing,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: why he was around the people that he was around,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and you know, I just think that that's where you're
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: gonna come with a breakthrough, you know. So I've kind
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: of been stuck there, and plus we had I was
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: so excited, you know. Of course, I have Janet Banister
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: on the show, and if you haven't watched the episode yet,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: go back, folks. We had Guy.
• 36:35
  Speaker 10: Banister's great niece, Janet Banister on the show, and we
• 36:38
  Speaker 10: talked about her podcast as she's doing Family Secrets Skeletons
• 36:43
  Speaker 10: in the Closet all about Guy Banister, and we had
• 36:47
  Speaker 10: a fascinating conversation and you know, which led me down.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Several several rabbit holes, and I love it. We talked
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: a little bit about Guy bans there's possible involvement with
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: the whole Bonnie and Clyde thing. Ray Joe mhm. So
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: I found this document and I was like, well, damn,
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: isn't that arresting. Somebody popped this bad boy up here.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: So it's a Garrison document August seventeen sixty seven concerning
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Jack martin Goldana, Louisiana. Lieutenant Fruge And of course he's
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: the dude from what's her face? Share me?
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: And Clinton and Clinton, Yeah, Clinton, this guy with this,
• 37:37
  Speaker 11: I guess he was the Louisiana State Troo where he
• 37:39
  Speaker 11: got around, Yeah, a lot of the interesting places in
• 37:43
  Speaker 11: this whole assassination war.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: So. Lieutenant Fruge contacted George Franklin, a high school teacher
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: in Goldana, who informed him that the principal of the
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: high school, mister Morrison, will be able to give us
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: a lot of information on Jack Martin. Excuse me, mister
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Morrison is out of town and we'll return on August
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: twenty six, sixty seven. He did volunteer. However, Jack Martin's grandfather,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Charles Martin, was a member of the Bonnie and Parker
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barry gang, and the gang used
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: to operate and hide out around Goldana, which is between
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: was at Winfield and Natchatocius, Louisiana. It seems that Charles
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Martin later on turned state's evidence against the gang and
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: set them up for the sheriff and the FBI, and
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: as a result of this, the entire gang was wiped out.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: One or two years later, poor Charles Martin was found
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: cut in half. Joe on a railroad track around Goldana.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Goldona fruze informs me that this area has a notorious
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: reputation for criminals and illegal activities. He said that there
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: were also many small churches and self appointed mens minsters
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: in this area. So I found that document and I
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: was like, holy crap.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Then it dawned on me for a second. Joe H.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: Jack Martin is not his real name, Okay, It's Edward sucks. Yeah,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: So how could this dude have a grandfather named Charles
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Martin that was involved with the Bonnie, setting up the
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Bonnie and Clyde gang, and then getting railroad tracked a
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: year or two later.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when you're reading it.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: So I dug a little more, Joe, I dug a
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: little more.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I love when you go deep, sir.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I love it. Oh, you ain't the only one.
• 39:46
  Speaker 12: Uh So.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I went back and I looked some more, and I
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: came across this. Now, if you if you notice Joe
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: at the top, this is a secret Service document, a
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Treasury Department document, and I highlighted where it's his assassination
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: of president. And I also highlighted where it says gold
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Donna and Nasatotius, Louisiana, eleven two sixty three, Okay, by
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: Special Agent in Charge John Rice. Now, Joe, we talked
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: about this when we were talking about all the Martins
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: last year, because this was one of them. Jack W.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Martin Okay with the Yeah, with the APB.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is discreete. Inquiries were made into Goldna
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: and Nasatosius Louisiana on November twenty second, sixty three regarding
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: possible suspect Jack Martin at request of Dallas Office, this
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: investigation having been initiated prior prior. Let me reiterate that
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: prior to the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald, and you
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: see where I highlighted it here details of the investigation.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: At approximately two pm on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: while at Barksdale Air Force Base in Bowser City, louis
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Boser City, Louisiana, I received a telephone call from a
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: special agent Anthony Garetz in New Orleans. He advised that
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: he had just received a phone call from the Clerk
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Lillian Ryan Dallas, who stated that special Agent Robert Stewart
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: this is like telephone tay had requested that this office
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: conduct discreet inquiries relative to Jack Martin on route one
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Goal Donna, Louisiana, who at the time was considered a
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: possible suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy. No further
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: information was then available to Clerk Ryan. So as it
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: goes on, John Ray says, I immediately Barksdale goes to Godana,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: does a this little check, and he goes to the
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: post office. Says, hey, where can I find this dude?
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: And they point him in the right direction, which brings
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: us to the second part of this document. For several years,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: the suspect has been traveling around the country and apparently
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: has been connected with an unidentified religious cult. Joe, it
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: has been rumored, according to mister Quarrels, that Martin deserves
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: or desires to become a preacher. Now it's awful, damn funny, Joe,
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: that we have Jack S. Martin in New Orleans at
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: this time who wanted to become a preacher. He was
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: ordained one of these orthodox fake wandering bishops right right.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: And this guy, Jack W. Martin, also in Louisiana, is
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: a suspect in the assassination of Kennedy prior prior before
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald. How in the hell
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: does that shake out?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Wow? So you know, Rob likes to surprise me. I
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: haven't seen this before. So, Rob, do you think that
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: this Jack W. Martin could have been Jack S Martin?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: A KA and word sucks?
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: No, I don't, but I think it's a case of
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: mistaken identity. Joe. Okay, okay, ok you know what I mean? Yeah,
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: because why else would the name Jack Martin come up
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: before Oswald is arrested at the Texas Theater. How does
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: that happen that quickly? A tip?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: It has to be a tip, right, somebody dimed out
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Jack Martin. Yeah, and we know what Jack Martin did
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: when he was questioned. He dined out another person by
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the name.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Of David fer. Yeah. He's just some country bumpkin who
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: travels around the country and connected to an unidentified religious cult.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Apparently he's a loser. But he goes on to say,
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Robert Richter called this report to my attention, how strange
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: it is that neither the Commission, nor those lawyers sent
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: to New Orleans in Dallas, nor the FBI or the
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Secret Service had any subsequent interest in uh. And that
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: the report and the testimony and the printed exhibits totally
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: ignore the immediate interest in one Jack Martin as a
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: quote possible suspect in the assassination. Aside from the remarkable
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: similarity in name, how can it be called an investigation
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: when there's no investigation or report of a man suspected
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: before Oswald was arrested. And those are all very good points,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: and it makes zero sense to me other than the
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: fact that somebody had dimed out Jack Martin immediately after
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: the assassination for some reason, and they were looking for him,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: and they came up with this guy first m for
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: some reason. Yeah.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: And I don't think we have any follow up on
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: the result of the app right, did they?
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Well we did in the show. We did have We
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: did have some follow up. He was clear, ultimately clear.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: They questioned him, they found them, the questioned him and
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: basically said, you know, he had nothing to do with it.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: But hm, it's interesting that they're looking for Jack Martin
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: before Oswald's even arrested. That's a gigantic red flag right there, Yes, sir,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: it is. So this is Jack W. Martin grandfather, Charles
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Martin is involved with the Bunnie and Clyde gang. We're
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: getting cut in the hair.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: His story, that's his story. It's not sucked his story.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: It's his story. Interesting, very very and so then I
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: came across one of David Fairies.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: What do we thank Perpetual Concepts? First?
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: I did silently, Okay, we can do it verbally right now.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you Perpetual Concepts.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, appreciate it. And before you continue, Rob one or
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: two comments. I starred James Smith doesn't fit.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: You can't great. Uh does not fit under his arm pit.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: We should make a rap song, Joe.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: It'd probably go viral.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: The reasons.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be explicit for sure. Uh so many
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: chain of custody issues that wouldn't survive a decent evidentiary challenge.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, and they would know, yes, he would.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Police officer, former police officer, right, yes, and Dean Andrews
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: will probably have won that case. Uh yeah, and yeah,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: and of course our friend Lee New Orleans is the key.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Well I've raped, Thank you guys, and uh, I'm sorry Rob.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Pray continue, sir, pray continuing, all right, moving right
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: along to Layton Martin's. All right, this is the ex
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: roommate of Ferry So and this is a couple of years.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember what year it was. I want
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: to say it was only a year or two after
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: the assassination, but Layton Martins, who has figured in or no,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: it had to be later than that because they're talking
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: about Garrison's assassination probe. But he was only twenty five
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: when he arrested. Layton Martins was arrested and booked with
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: attempted murder last night following his stabbing in his French
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Quarter apartment. Police said Martins was accused of stabbing Darryl
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: gert sch gert Schlager. Gert Schlager, twenty nine years old,
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: of duplas or Do Main Street, apartment four oh one.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Gerten Schlugger was listed in fair condition at Charity Hospital
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: early today after undergoing surgery last night. Before surgery, his
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: condition was reported as extremely critical. Joe, So he was
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: on he was knocking on Heaven's door. You know what
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. So yeah, Apparently, police said the stabbing took
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: place in Martins's apartment following an argument. During the argument,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: officials said Martins went to his kitchen and got an
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: eight inch butcher knife to protect himself. Police reported that
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Gertenschlerger charged Layton Martins and was stabbed in the abdomen
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: with the knife. So he literally fell on the blade.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Joe.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Allegedly, you know, Martin said, I just holding the knife.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't stab him. He stabbed himself.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: That'll make a mark as someone who's pretty familiar with
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: smart right.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: Martin's was a roommate in nineteen sixty three, of the
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: late David Ferry, who died just a few days after
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: the DA's probe of President John F. Kennedy's murder was revealed.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: Garrison accused Fairy of being a conspirator and the death
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: of Kennedy. On April fifth, nineteen and sixty seven, Martins,
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: who was then a student of the University of Southern Louisiana,
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: was indicted by the Orleans Parish Grand jury for perjury
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: in connection with the testimony he gave about about two
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: other Garrison probe figures, Gordon Devil and Sergio are Conscia Smith.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: He has never been brought to trial on his perjury charges. Huh.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: So I did not know Lighton Martins was an attempted murderer.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: News to me, News to me too, and that he
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: was charged at the same like Dean Andrews. Right, wasn't
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: he Dean Andrews charge for perjury?
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, but never went I think he charged everybody
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: with perjury. He didn't agree with what he was doing,
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: because they say, must be lying, right, you know, it
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: just depends on who he took up the charges against.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I I did not know that either, sir.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: That is yeah, it happened nowedge here, Joe, and.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Before you continue lighton months because I got the Dean
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Andrews situation wrong.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: He was.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Homosexual? Who Layton Martins. Yeah, yeah, he was like he.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Was having Diddy parties with David Ferry.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, I just wanted to make that clear to the
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: audience and myself.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: He was probably banging the duty stand. He probably stabbed
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: him with his knife and something else, if you know
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could have been he has charged, sir, Yeah.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: All right, Layton Martins. Subject Martin's continued to tell us
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: about the subject h Butch Marsh mentioned in the appended
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: documents who introduced him to Perry Russo is now employed
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: as a New Orleans police officer. So late Martin's basically
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: says that Butch Marsh introduced him to Perry Russo, and
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: this Butch Marsh character is now employed as a New
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: Orleans police officer. He says this man has helped him
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: several remember several things, and that he Marsh most likely
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: knows a lot himself. Perhaps, he says, Marsh may know
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: more than he cares to admit, or that he will admit.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: He thinks that insomuch as he Martin's was a way
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: to school so much during that period, marsh was formal
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: far more in the know with Faery and then he
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: Martin's was at the time sounds like Martin's is trying
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: to say something here without saying, you know what I'm saying.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Martin seems very sincere about and in regard to our
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: latest talks see the extent that he actually realizes his
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: juvenile and naivete at this period in his life. He
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: knows now that both Ferry and Arkasha used and quote
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: him for several reasons for his youth and for nothing else. Joe,
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: he has mentioned several times about how they are Kasha
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: and Fairy seem to decide factors or business policies in
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: secret and then come to him saying, we've decided to
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: do this, directing him to then go and implement such
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: and such a procedure, etc. Without question so doing. He
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: has said, I just followed orders, even though I was
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: allegedly supposed to be running things. That is the FRD
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: et cetera. Now that is the student director of the.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Was it the.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Revolutionary Something Student Directorate. Martin's also reported to us that
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: the secretary we mentioned to you Tuesday afternoon called him
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: that very evening after our conversation about this matter. He's
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: all worked up over this contact Layton Martins and then
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: talking about Joe one Delphine Roberts right there, sir, Yeah,
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: Now why would he be all worked up about Delphine. Well,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you, and it's something that I did not know.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: To the list of stuff in this episode that I
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: did not know, so I dug a little further help
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: me do it. The FRD is the Cuban Revolutionary Front
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Joe and the New Orleans delegate for this organization is
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: Sergiocassias Smith. Okay. Now, their offices were five forty four
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: Camp Street, Okay, and this says two of seven balt buildings.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: This is after they moved out of the Newman Building
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: and into the Balter Building. Okay. But I did not
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: know that Leyton Martin's was a big wig in the
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Fronte Revolutionary democratic O the FRD in New Orleans. I
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: believe he was the secretary. Did not know that? Very interesting,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: very very interesting.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: He was more than just possibly more than just like
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: a hangaround side piece going to diddy parties, right, I
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: mean treasure, that's right. Treasure you said, a treasurer. That's
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: a significant position. You're you're controlling a lot of money
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: and funds. Yeah, well, Secretary, I don't know if he
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: was treasuring Okay, Okay, I'm sorry, but still yeah, still.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: So, then I wanted to show everybody something I don't
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: think we've actually shown him. We may have discussed it
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: in the past, but.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: This is actually.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: Uh Jack Martin's HSCA interview from nineteen seventy seven, and
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: it's regarding the five point thirty one Lafayette Street Very
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: Oswald Banister. Okay, So, on December fifth, nineteen seventy seven,
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: investigators Bob Burius and Lawrence Delsa met Jack S. Martin
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: at his hotel located on Saint Charles Avenue. Mister Martin
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: brought us to the Paradise Bar, located at Decatur in
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: Benville Street in New Orleans. Martin stated, and we later
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: confirmed that William Little Horse Dalzell worked there. Okay. At
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: the Pair of Dice Bar, the investigators and Jack Martin
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: went to the Holiday Inn, located in the one hundred
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: block of Royal Street and conducted an interview. Martin stated
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: that he has now been in New Orleans since fifty
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: five or fifty six, and was now separated from his wife, Paula,
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: who worked in the city Hall in New Orleans. Martin
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: stated now he was a part time investigator and part
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: time writer. He had served in World War Two in
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: the Air Corps and served in the Pacific, where he
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: did a lot of radio work, including military intelligence work
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: on ships out of Pearl Harbor, Harble Harbor, Harble. He
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: was near Pearl Harbor on December seventh, nineteen forty one,
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: when the Japanese attacked. He received an honorable discharge, and
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: he is very anti Communists. He told the investigators about
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: a letter whom retired General Claire should know, which the
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: investigators later read, praising.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Jack Martin.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: District Attorney Herman Coleman and told him about seeing Oswald
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: with Ferry and about the gun. Jack Martin feels that
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: this is the first call anyone made to the New
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Orleans District Attorney. As a result of that call, Ferry's
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: apartment was raided by special investigators and Ferry was later
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: arrested and released. Martin felt that the gun Oswald ues
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: might have belonged to Ferry, or he might have purchased
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: a rifle from the same place at Ferry Mauley His
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Some of the supplies we dropped in Cuba came from
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: the efforts of William Daalzel, a lleged ciasset operator, who
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: helped search the Rkasha Smith FRD get medical supplies when
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: they were in the Balter building at the four hundred
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: block of Camp Street. Jack Martin stated that since he
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: had made his first phone call in sixty three, he
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: had been a branded man Joe. People no longer asked
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: for his help, and his business contacts had went down
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: to zebra. He feels that he is being unjustly harassed
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: for trying to be helpful. That's what happens, right, got
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: to be the nice guy, you end up getting screwed.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: That's the truth.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Now let's get into what he says about eleven twenty
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: two sixty three. Here, on the same day of the
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: phone call, eleven twenty two sixty three, he was drinking
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: at the Cats and Jammer bar with Guy Banister and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: they got into an argument. Now we've heard various recountings
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: of this tale from different perspectives, including different stories from
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Martin himself, from Delphine, from what Banister told people. This
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: is what Jack Martin says in nineteen seventy seven, folks,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: This is way after the deal, way after almost fifteen. Yeah,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: so let's see what he has to say now. In
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven, he says he was drinking into Cats
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: and Jamber Bar with Banster and they got into an argument.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: They went to Banisher's office and in the heat of
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: the moment, I said, what are you going to do?
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: Kill me like y'all did Kennedy. Banister drew his three
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: fifty seven magnum and beat Martin in the head, which
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: required medical attention but not serious. When Martin was on
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: the ground, Banister pointed the gun at his head, and
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: he believed Banister would have killed him if not for
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: one of the secretaries, possibly Delphine Roberts, told Banister, don't
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: shoot him. A police report was made and Banister paid
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: all the medical bills and Martin dropped the charges. Other
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: people in the interest of the Select Committee are the
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: following and the first person he says, Joe he talks
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: about here is Layton Martin's who is now working at
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: Leonard Crowder's jewelry store. Layton was a roommate of David
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Ferry and also wore combat fatigues and possibly trained with
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: the Cubans. Martin was seen at Guy Banister's office many
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: times and for some time actually worked as an investigator
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: for Guy Banister, Vernon Getty's and Joseph the Fatman new Borough.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, yep, and we read a statement from Vernon Gurdies.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: I believe it was lost.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: Yes. Carlos Key Roga is next, Joe. He was an
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: associate of Orakasha and was in five forty four Camp
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: Street a lot. Jack Martin gave him the idea of
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: carrying a huge flag down Canal Street in a parade
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: and having people throw dollars in it. The theme was
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: paper bullets at Castro or something to that effect. Ki
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: Roga might still be in New Orleans. Guy Johnson's up next.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: He was an attorney that knew Banister well and was
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: with the Office of Naval Intelligence, which was located in
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: the upstairs of the old Post Office in the six
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: hundred block of Camp Street. Joe and we heard Newborough
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: talk about the Office of Naval Intelligence files that Banister
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: was probably keeping for them. Next up, Grady Durham was
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: a lieutenant colonel in the Service, possibly Army Reserve, and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: an attorney that Jack Martin knew well from being around,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: got Banister Durham passed a few bad checks and people
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: were gonna press charges against him. Jack Martin and Joseph
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: Newborough went to the New Orleans corner doctor Nick Chetta
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: and got warrants issued for mental incompetency.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Who they took the yes, yes, uh, you would go
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: to the corner to get warrants for mental incompetency?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Interesting apparently so.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe before like therapists and psychologists were like a big thing.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: Hey, Joe, a doctor is a doctor. You know what
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. That's true at Yeah, they took these papers
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: to the DA's complaint desk and got to check charges
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: killed as they came in. The Louisiana Bar Association knew
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: about the charges, but Grady Durham is ex Governor Jimmy
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Davis's first cousin, said nothing was ever done about. Now
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: this next part here is interesting. Federal Bureful Investigation agent
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: Reachis Kennedy. Joe used to come around and was friendly
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: with the people in Guy Banster's office. Regis Kennedy also
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: spent a lot of time North of lank pocket train
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: by the Cuban training camps. Jack Martin talked to Kennedy
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: by phone from the apartment of Barbara Reid and had
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: the conversation taped. Jack Martin claims that Regis Kennedy stated
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: that the information about Oswald and the anti cast Cubans
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: will be taken care of or straightened out at a
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: later date. Barbara Reid cannot find the tape, of course
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: she can't shock, but does confirm this. Bill Meatzski was
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: also a former partner of Guy Banister YEP. Former FBI
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: agent Yeatske worked with Banister in the Chicago office. Also
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: in Beat Montana, Nietzsky and Banster handled the FBI Russian
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: counter intelligence excuse me, and also allegedly handled information from
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: Russia over Alaska to be Montana later went to Michow
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: and worked as a security guard for Mason Rusk in NASA.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: A lot of people going to work with this show.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: Joe Well, NASA.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Matsa right, because uh, yeah, wasn't Oswald trying to go
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: there after? While he was at Riley, Yeah, A lot
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: of other people were.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: Kind of Dante Marischino, A lot of people from Raley
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: coffee company. And we'll get into some more here in
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: a little while, but uh, including this guy. But there
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: is more, folks. Martin believes that Micheau also had three
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: two hundred interpreters doing some kind of intelligence work. One
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: of bands for short term employees was a man named
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: Earl Stally who also did some work from the show.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: And then a firm believe to be the Jefferson Highway Company.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: This company checked out the electronics on the Polaris submarines
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: for the military. Jack Martin identified the following people as
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: intelligence agents with either a CIA Ordia at one time
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: or another. William Dalzel, Joseph Newborough himself. So very very
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: interesting stuff there, and there is more, I promise, but
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: we will get there in a little bit. I'm gonna
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: hand things back over to Joseph. Uh for the next
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: part of the show. I believe Joe that it's about
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: time we start talking about David Christ. For Chris's sake,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: it's the name of the show, not Christ, Chris, David
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: Chris's sake. For Christ's sake, I like it, Yes, for
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: Chris's sake.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so. This guy was a big deal, as
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: we'll get into and a swinging dick is what we
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: call him, yes, and not one of the people, Rob
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: that is talked about a lot compared to a lot
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: of agents, right like I Howard Hung David Attlee Phillips.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: Well, he's a very murky character, Joe yeap with intelligence
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: times and there's just not a lot on any damn people.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, he's a very interesting character. And I've
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: actually a little hint here been looking into him a
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: little bit for the upcoming Lancer presentation that me and
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Douglas Campbell were going to do. But Rob, Douglas Campbell,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: our friend Doug knocked out on me. So because yeah
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: he did so now he said, because I mispronounced his
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: name and I said Douglas Craig last episode. Because you
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: know when you when you're good friends with people, right,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: like you call him like Doug at first, and then
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: like you get good friends with him and you'd be
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: like Douglas, right, So Douglas Craig is a good old
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: friend of mine, and that's how I got it confused.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: But mister Campbell wasn't that happy. So because the Lancer
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: presentation cannot change the names, I had to pick someone
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: with the same initials. So I asked my friend Douglas
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Craig to fill in for Doug Campbell and he said, yes.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: So you got DC to fill in for DC to
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: talk about DC.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. And of course, guys, I am kidding, but yeah,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: he might factor into our presentation a little bit. I'm
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: not going to tell you how. But this is mister
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: David Lamar Christ and his alias was Daniel L. Carr aswell.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: And if you notice Rob, it's the same initials DLC right.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: And yes downloadable content, Yes exactly.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: And hey, this guy is a big deal.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: So let me go to my That's got to be
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: one of the best mug shots I've ever seen.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know where this.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Is from, but I don't know what it is, but
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: I like it. It's just he doesn't look like he
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: should be there at all. Dude, you know, a three
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: piece suit, in a freaking chair, hairs cut, comb greased down,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: looking like you Sala's beard, he's all dulled up. He
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: probably smells great, but it's a mugshot. I love it.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: You know, this guy, he's a big deal.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: So to go back to to start. He was born
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: on January twentieth, nineteen eighteen in Pennsylvania. He passed away
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: at nineteen eighty five and Potesta, Maryland. He joined the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Air Force in nineteen forty three, where he became a
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: communications officer Cryptology section. After training at Yale University. When
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: the war ended, he rejoined at List Powder Company, received
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: bachelors from penn State, and then was recruited by the
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: CIA in November nineteen fifty as the first research and
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: development electronics engineer and what has evolved as the Technical
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: Service Division of the CIA. He also created the Applied
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: Physics branch. So Rob what you were saying, you know,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: he didn't like look like a hardcore officer. I mean
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: he wasn't. He was kind of a nerd, but he
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: kind of revamped in a time where you know, technology
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: is moving very quickly. The CIA Electronics.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was obviously had to be a very intelligent
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: dude to be doing all this advance like tronical work,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: you know, things with computers ahead of time, listening devices, bugs,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: the whole nine yards. I mean, this guy was probably
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: really slick, really smart, one hundred smooth operator.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll get into it, but maybe not a
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: smooth operator because he ended up getting caught. But I
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: ended up searching the Education the Education Forum for some
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: old information and threads I always kind of check, and
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: I came across a statement by Larry Hancock in two
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: thousand and six about christ and very interesting and I
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: believe he's in someone would have talked as well. Larry's
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: book and Little Tea's here, Rob. We have emailed with
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Larry and we hope to have him on in the
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: next couple of weeks. We have yet to nail down
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: a time, but mister Larry Hancock is going to come
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: on the Long Gune Podcast in the next couple of
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: weeks and talked about his new book, The Oswalt Puzzle,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: which we have alluded to a lot here, Rob. If
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: you've been paying attention, if everyone is paying attention, yes,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: So we are extremely excited for that.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: Love. Larry can't wait to have him on our show
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: for the very first time ever ever.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: I can't wait. It's a fascinating conversation and it will
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: be a fascinating conversation.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: But this is all about UFOs.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: Hey, we can get we can get into. I have
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: unacknowledged his book on UFOs and I haven't finished it.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: I cracked it and I get distracted.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: You know you know who I am, But this is.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: From mister Larry Hancock. Christ was one of the very
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: first technical staff of the CIA, specialist in electronics, including intercepts, bugs,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: and wire tapping. He managed to get involved in a
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Cuban penetration to bug the Chinese embassy in Havana, but
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: their operation went bad and they ended up trying to
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: steal the codebooks. Him and his team were captured by
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Cuban G two intelligence, but the Cubans had no idea
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: of his real stature or knowledge. They thought he was
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: up to some shady shit, but they didn't know he
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: had ran the CIA's wire tapping and technical services division
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: for almost four years at this point. The CIA first
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: tried to use Cuban criminal assets to break his team
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: out of prison, but he but gave up on that.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: It ended supporting a legal action to get his team
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: out as part of a general move to free Americans
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: in prison. Actually, and we'll get into this shortly. Rob
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: John Martino met Christ and Chris team in prison and
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: they were added to the negotiation as part of an
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: effort to divert attention from Chris and his team. So essentially, Rob,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: the CIA realized that they're head of wire tapping and
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: audio services had been imprisoned by the Cubans by the Communists.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: This was in September of nineteen sixty and he had
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: knowledge of every wire tapping opera they in the past
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: few years.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an old shit moment. But like James said,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: he did a good job keeping his mouth shut.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: He did, Rob. And you know what, shortly, I'm going
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: to read a little document from the CIA because he
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: was brought up for the Medal of Merit, which was
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: a CIA award in nineteen seventy, and they gave a
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: whole kind of summary of his of his CIA career,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: And yeah, they wouldn't have given that to him if
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: he had not kept his mouth shut, for sure. But
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: you have to, I mean, imagine if you have someone
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: with that much knowledge getting captured by the Soviets in
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: Cuba and by relation Russia, with that much information, they're
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: bugging out and they did multiple operations to try to
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: free him. But he was in there from let's see
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: September nineteen sixty to April sixty three, almost two and
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: a half years.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: And wow.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: But the whole point was. They didn't want to acknowledge
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: what exactly Dave exactly he had knowledge of the Mexico
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: City wire jobs. You probably did that, and yeah, I'll
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: get into.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: That shortly, and yeah, there's your bugger.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: Yep, And hence you know, I'm not gonna I'm gonna
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: do a little tease. I'm not going to get into
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent how he factors into dug him my
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: my Lancer presentation, but very interesting. So he was the
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: chief of the Technical Services division, the Audio Operations branch.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: He was witting of the following all audio operations worldwide
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: since December nineteen fifty seven to present date. Complete knowledge
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: of all research and development aspects of audio equipment research,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: had knowledge of certain staff, D and FI equipment and operations.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: Complete knowledge of all audio assets in production and stocked
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: for use overseas. Clearance through top secret, special intelligence clearance,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: and Q clearance. Now I don't exactly know what Q
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: clearance means, but because it's high in the alphabet, I'm
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: going to assume it's pretty high.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to say that that's probably one of
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: the top clearances you get in.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure it's up there.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 7: Worldwide knowledge of the location of all our audio technicians,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 7: having previously been with the applied physics brands of the
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 7: Technical Service Division.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: He was also aware of many of our other research
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: and development activities. As a branch chief and TSD, he
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: has full information on all personnel in the Technical Services
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Division and general knowledge of overall activities, including the research programs.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: He has been too redacted. I think it means Cuba
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: many times. I don't know, that's my guess. So he
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: was captured with two other guys breaking in two It
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: was a Watergate style break in at the Chinese Communist
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: news agency in Havana. Cuban police thought they had caught
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: three small fry burglars and locked them up on an
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: island off Cuba. The CIA was desperate to get them
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: back before the cover was blown. Akay, Cuba didn't know
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: who they had in their custody. One knew the names
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: of numerous CIA contacts in Cuba. The CIA turned to
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: Charles Saragusa, suggesting that he enlisted mafia types for a
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: rescue type grade Charlie's Cigars.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a name.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's very interesting. When you look into a lot
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: of the prisoners that were in Cuba.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: And Ravens lyingbacker Tony Gooses, uncol No.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: Is it?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: No, it isn't.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, are you serious? No, I'm guessing I don't know. Hey,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: can't you have any Sirah Gooses? And you know what
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: I'm saying, Hey.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of Paison's named Sarah. The CIA turned
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: to Charles Saragusa, suggesting that he was mafia types. This
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: proved impractical. Instead, Saragusa began dealings with the Chicago lawyer
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: supposedly close to Fidel Castro's brother Raoul. The CIA authorized
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: Sarahusa to spend up to one million in effect to
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: effect the rescue of the imprisoned agents. The Chicagoian received
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars from their CIA funds, but the efforts failed. Eventually,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: christ and his two other accomplished won their freedom through
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: the legal efforts of a Havana attorney retained by the CIA,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: without Castro's knowledge. So Christ, Rob, do you want to
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: guess how many kids he had? He was forty two
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: at the time.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: I think a good looking guy like that he probably had.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: By that age.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: I'm guessing at least eight six clause I was gonna
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: say eight kids with six baby mamas.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, but his wife was named Wilma, and she
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: was not happy who she was not.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: Happy with his imprisonment and.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: But not shediggling man.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right true.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Uh but uh so.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: They were living in the Washington area, Chris's wife, Wilma
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: and their six children, and they were frequently visited by
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: members of the agency. Wilma explained to neighbors that her
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: husband is away on a long TDHY for the government,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: which I guess is some operation assignment. Maybe Deep State
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: tiny can help us out here TD why.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: Today? Yeah?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Right, it ends with starts with the teams with a why,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: kind of like tiny so which has become a permanent assignment.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: And Wilma Christ has Chris had uh been She's been
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: paid her husband's accumulated salary. Operational efforts to secure the
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: release of the men in progress. We have avoided keeping
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: missus Christ fully on the specifics of the efforts being made,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: as she tends to be critical of the agency and
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: the fact she is unaware of any significant interest in
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: the case in the executive branch of the government. She
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: has previously seen Alan Dulles, General Cabell, and General Maxwell
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: Taylor and General Carter in regards to her husband.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: See when things like this happened, Joe, and look back then,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: we don't even know for sure. It sounds like it,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: but we don't even know for sure that Wilma knew
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: that he actually worked for the CIA. You know what
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. Most of them had like cover jobs like
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: what you tell people like I work for the State
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: Department or something like that. And then all of a
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: sudden you have to explain to Wilma while her husband's
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: not coming home from business trip and she's running her
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: mouth and you gotta tell her to shut the cup.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: H I mean, they're paying her his salary while he's
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: in jail to help shut her up. But I don't
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: think it was working very well.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: So you're right, it wasn't working very well. But so
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: David Christ was so high up in the CIA that
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: he was one of those people that they didn't deny
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: him being an employee of the CIA. Of course, years later,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: as we'll read his the merit recommendation by the CIA.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: But she definitely knew because she went to Allan Dallas,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: she went to Kebel. She was high enough, the wife
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: of a high enough agent where she knew where to
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: go to complain, so like, why aren't you doing enough
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: to get my has been out of Cuba And I'm
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: going to get to it in a slider or two
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: here when I bring up my PowerPoint. But they were
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: not keeping her in the loop because she was very
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: upset about this. They did not want her blabbing her
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: mouth to say my husband is in the CIA and
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: he's in Cuba because Chipkins didn't know what they had
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: in christ you know what I mean. So they're trying
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: to like shut her up. She's pissed, she's like blabbing
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: her mouth and they don't know what to do about it.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: So it's like a whole crazy situation going on here.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: And so they're trying to keep her in the darth
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: but give her enough information. But she's strolling into Alan
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Dullas's office. Yeah right, bitch, be cool. She's going into
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: alic Alan Dollas's office, who was still the director at
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: the time, being like, where the f is my husband?
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: So she knew, but she didn't know the specific is
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: what I gleaned from from.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I doubt they told her that he's in prison
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: in Cuba under catstro you know. That would have sent
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: her over the edge, like demand, and they do some
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: ship to get him out of there.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: But on that it could have blown his cover.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: And then well yeah, if anybody.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: Killed him, yeah, if Catcher Newdy had.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: Like he would have tortured him.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So it's a very interesting
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: situation going on here. And let me sure this.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: Uh so this is a nineteen wim Karen. Karen's demanding
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: to know.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or she just wasn't happy being at home with
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: six kids.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: That's that's quite possible, as will Yeah, time me up six.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: Times this come.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: Ho'm getting tired. You know, these kids get no sleep.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: Get up in the moment night.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: One on the other, I got two bottles and now two.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: Sorry, no, you sound exactly like I had envisioned that
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: she would sound. I'm not joking, and that this is
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: a quick document. Mister David Christ His security clearance was
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: approved in nineteen fifty and revalidated fifty seven.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 3: And breaking news, Joe, Yes, were you the screen?
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: Huh Okay, that that makes a lot of sense. So
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: they told yes, thank you deep stay tiny and by
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: the way, Tiny, my beard is just for you. I
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: haven't shaved in at least three weeks. It's shows like
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: when you're in the mountains. Who cares he hasn't shaved
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: in three days? Thank you? No, that that makes a
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: lot of sense. And I did not know that. And
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: that's exactly why I called you out tiny for asking
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: that question, or when I asked that question, because I
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: knew you would.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: But no.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: So these were the CIA agents that were caught bugging
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: the China News Agency.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's the team.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: Yep, three of them. Daniel Carswell, which was the alias
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: of David christ forty five born in nineteen eighteen, Pennsylvania engineer,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: east Chester, New York. Rob, my dad used to live
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: in Eastchester, New York, and I lived there.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in the suburbs, just north of the city.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Thornton Anderson used the name Eustace Dan Brunt.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: That's a shitty alias.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Rob, we're gonna I'm gonna blow your mind
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: in the second and Edmund Conrad Taranski or Walter Suminski
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: used the name Edmund Kearansky born nineteen thirty, Boston.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: That's a bad one too.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Rob, this hold on, I think you know
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: this book here I do. I have a copy of
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: it myself, Sir, I was Castro's prisoner.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: And this was.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Of course written by mister John Martino when he got
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: back from the prison of the Cuban Prisons and joined
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: the right wing slash Cuban exile cause Rob. You never
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: guess who John Martino mentions in his book in nineteen
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: sixty you get it. Look at the left here Dan carswell'sticcee,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: Dan Bert Edmund Taranski. So here we have Martino in
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three giving the aliases of the three guys
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: that were caught at bugging up the Chinese embassy in Cuba,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: including Carswell aka Christ in his book and of course Rob.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: We some of us might know he also mentioned David
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: Morales by name in this book. You cannot make that up.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, not his alias, David Morales's name. It's not
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: in the same portion here. But this is crazy. So
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: essentially they are all in the Tresconia prison complex, which
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: is like the immigration complex where they kind of kept
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: all the mafioso's. Santral Trafficante Lauren Hall, Bernardo dec Torres,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other mafioso's were kept in Transcornia prison
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: and at some point David Christ and his two accomplices,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: Dan Brunt Taranski, the Aliases names were transferred to the
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: Isle of Pines prison. So the Isle of Pines prison
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: rob is like the maximum security prison. Like if you
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: really screwed up, that's where you're seeing.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: That's the one you ain't getting all of Yeah.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: So if you're in Trasconia, you're with the mafiosos. It
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: is kind of like a good fella's type of like
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: you remember them making the dinner, this and that, right
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: then you get wine with you, you know, yeah, yeah,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: and sant yeah. And central Trafficante actually had his food
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: delivered from the hotel casino he owned every day. So
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: literally was a sceneu of good fellows. And so at
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: the bottom and left hand side of the page, Martino writes,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: Dan Carswell aka David Christ and the other Americans came
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: into our gallera to say goodbye. They were visually shaken,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: but they kept their self control. They gave me their
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: wrist watches, their portfolio, portable radios, and some other personal
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: belongings such as rings and other things of value. On
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: the Isle of Pines, you are not permitted any personal
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: possessions and if you go there with them. They're taken
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: from you.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: The yeah, here, take this shit. So when we get
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: to the Isle of Pines, they don't open up my
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: watch and.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 11: See it's really a communications device, and this and that
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 11: the radio is a bugging device, and they won't find
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 11: the microphones and that.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I got you.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: It's nuts. And this is in Martino's book. So we
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: quote one of the guys working under Chris dan Burnt.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: I can't understand this. I was told we were not
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: going to be moved. They said we were going to
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: keep us here for a while and then they would
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: set us three, set us free. Martino writes. The three guys,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: krist and the two accomplices met their fate with courage,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: like real soldiers. We shook hands. In Cuba, people get
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: into the habit of hugging each other, and everyone there
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: gave him an a braso, which I guess is all.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: So not only Rob do you have Martino referencing Christ
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: in his nineteen sixty three book and his two accomplices
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: by name. You also have him saying, Hey, I'm going
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: to the Isle of Pines. Here's all my stuff, including
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: my wristwatch, which.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: Is like in the sixties, Like I'm sure that was
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: full of spy gadgets, bro yourself.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, but it's like your cell phone almost right,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: Like it's like you're like, I can't take the cell
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: phone there. So like, here's my last possessions.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's my rings, there's my jewelry, my watch, my
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: secret spypin my radio, you know, all the night shit
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: they got to keep when they were in Frisconia. But
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: when they get moved to the Rikers Island of Cuba, yeah,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: you don't get to take that stuff with you.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, and h hold on, uh.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: Let me see here. Okay. When former prisoner of Castro
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Mafia organized crime member John Martino returned to the United
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: States in nineteen sixty two, he was released a little
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: less than a year before christ Chris stayed in there
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: until like April sixty three. With Martino being released in
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, he spoke and wrote about his friendship
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: with a fellow prisoner in Cuba, Daniel Lester. Carswell. Of
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: course he's using as alias, and I was Castro's prisoner,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: which I just showed you, recalls his first conversation with Carswell.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: Carswell told me Christ. We had drilled through the floor
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: with the ceiling of the Chinese news agency. We were
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: about to lower a microphone into the next room so
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: that we could put everything that was said there on tape.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: So you know, Martino is a fellow electronics expert. He
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: was rigging lot machines for the casino, I think Dobell,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: which was owned by Central Trafficante. He is talking shop
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: electronics shop with David Christ aka Daniel Carswell.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure he told him who he was doing
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: it for as well, for sure.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: And it seems like the CIA was interested in questioning
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: Martino when he got back because they were worried what
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: is he saying? Did he break you know what I mean?
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: Like did he give anything up to the Cubans. There's
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of information that Chris has that the CIA
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: is trying to protect and it's crazy and me and
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: Doug are going to expand on this in our Lancer presentation.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to give you a little tease. But
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: last thing, Rob, hang on.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: You have boys fend six bobbs. You have boys fend
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: six bobbs.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: I do, but guess who. In nineteen ninety four stated
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: that Christ was involved around Inter Penn. Hemmy, yes, yes, sir,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: Sir Generald Patrick Hemming, and Heming was asked how Christ
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: reacted when his identity was revealed. It could be he
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: felt I was in charge and I knew what I
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: was doing.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: Howard K.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: Davis, who spent the photograph of Christ, then was asked,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: did you ever see Christ around Inner Penn? Yeah, I
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: saw him around and I knew him. Well, you saw Christ?
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, I did.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: I believe I did, if I can remember, I saw
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: him over there a couple of times. People would wonder
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: on in and out all the time, even CIA people.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: That was no big secret. Fearyi aka Frank Sturgis had
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: a relationship with the company. That is absolute. We knew
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: it at the time. It was no secret in Miami.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: So to wrap this up, you have this guy CRISP. Christ,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: who was knowledgeable about every CIA wire tapping and electronics operation.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: Literally created the technical service division of the CIA in
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: jail Martino knowsen in nineteen sixty three. I don't put
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: a lot into what Heming says, of course, but if
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: he was around Inner Penn, you'd have to think it
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: was because of a relationship with Martino.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 3: No hole.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: Or whole as well, also a member of Tresconia Prison
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: the teenies.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 12: That is all.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: That is all I have, sir, And I'm just gonna
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: check in on some comments right now, Martino, you can't
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: be worse than six formers.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: As I say, all right, next up, let's go back
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: to New Orleans. Thank you Joe for that incredibly enlightening cristification.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm sorry, I've got a document about George Higgins Botham.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: George Higginbotham, who George Higginbotham enlightened ever heard of him?
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: Enlightened me in the audience of who this is? Okay.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 3: Info was provided by Garrison investigator Barbara Reed, April nineteen
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: sixty eight. George Higginbotham was a former investigator for Guy
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 3: Banister in sixteen sixty one, and he only had social
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: contact with Banister in sixty two and sixty three. Allegedly
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: sixteen sixty one nineteen sixty he was an investigator for
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 3: Guy Banister. Okay, he said sixteen, I said sixty and
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: sixty one. Oh, I see, thank you so yes. At present,
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 3: Higginbotham has been arraigned on a charge of Joe married
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 3: Jauana Hm, possession respect that the attorney is.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: Uh, I have no idea.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: Mark Lane who was everybody's attorney Markland in New Orleans.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: Andrews h.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: Oh Gel Yes, yes, okay, sorry sorry three times?
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 3: The Trump Gray Guil Junior Junior also a lawyer, but
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: also Gray Gill.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 3: The first night he was here, he showed me copies
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: of three letters from Banister to him concerning Banisters providing
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 3: him with false credentials and a cover for infiltrating Communist groups.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: His code name was Dale Dale Dale, Hi, my name
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: is Dale. I'm really interested in joining your group. It's
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: a pleasure to be here. I'm Dale Hickinbotham. M So
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 3: Barbara Reid saw letters written from Banister to Higginbotham concerning
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: false credentials and a cover for infiltrating communist groups. Show
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 3: what's that sound like? Training communist groups false credentials and
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 3: infiltrating communist groups. His code name was to be Dale or.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: A J I did Aleidel?
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So this guy was doing the same thing on
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: instructions from Guy Banister as Oswald was doing, using a
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: fake name and infiltrating, trying to infiltrate communist groups. Interesting, uh,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: he Higginbotham says he saw Martin mccaulliffe and banished his
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: office a few times. His reason for his reason for
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: severing times with Banister he attributes to a definite nervousness
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: upon seeing crates of obvious military supplies in the back
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: room i e. Guns and grenades and shit like that.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: There were apparently meetings also held there for some time.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: He said that Banister and KMP Courtney worked closely, so
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 3: the first hand that names come up, Kent Courtney, Yeah,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 3: last week right, yeah? Whoever. Banister did not have a
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: good opinion of Courtney, considering him too mercenary and a
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 3: bit of a loose mouth, loose lips because they sink ships.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: Joe m hm.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 3: Higan Botham also says there was quite a bit of
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 3: radio equipment in the back room as well. Some guy
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: named Loud Davis who was a minuteman associated with a
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: Roswell Thompson. Hello Thomas Beckham who appeared with Thomas Beckham
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 3: at his nineteen sixty three Grand Jerry appearance. This guy
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: Lou Davis who were talking about here? Was it Banishers? Frequently?
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 3: He was also friends with George Lincoln Rockwell and was
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: also a banished's office with him the leader of the
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 3: UN American Party. You know what I'm saying. State of
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: Mike Slader's apartment on Royal Street before they were removed
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 3: to Plaque Mines Parish. A young man named Eddie Porter,
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 3: who is now on the West Coast, told George he
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: knew Oswald was a hustler on Royal Street.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 13: If you remember that famous episode that I did Joe
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 13: called I f Lee Harvey Oswald and that story, Yeah,
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 13: of how Oswald and this guy met in like Lafayette
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 13: Park and went back to his apartment for ten dollars
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 13: they did to dirty.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so here's some corroboration. George said. Porter did not
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: specify the time, or if he did, George doesn't remember,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 3: but Porter is gay. Higginbotham was kidding Banister about sharing
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: a building with people passing out leafless on the street,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 3: and Bannister said, cool it one of them is one
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: of mine. Quote. Higginbotham suggested. Following up the possibility of
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 3: a connection between Richard Lockley and Banister, he said, rumor
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: has it to the FBI arrested Lockily in the Covington
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: area for selling arms to Latin America. But higg and
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: Botham considered it odd that Lockly was never out of business,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: and business seemed to even improve for him. Probably a snitch.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: He had a publication called The Counter Insurgency Council C
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: I See, and was friends with Robert K.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 5: Brown.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, screw that guy. It was all literature concerning demolition procedures,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 3: guerrilla warfare's, army manuals of warfare, textbooks, and instructions of
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 3: how to organize a fighting group. Much of what George
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 3: said was difficult to orientate. He would say, quote, you
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 3: might check this out, or here's a name, And when
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: I asked what he say, he'd say, I'd rather not say,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 3: And then he kept throwing in quote this may have
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: no meaning, but or I'm not sure I have anything
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 3: that might help. Until I was never sure whether this
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: was meant to be bait or not. A lot of
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 3: things he said he would prefer to discuss in detail
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: only with the Jolly Green Giant himself, Jim Garrison. So interesting,
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: George Higginbotham, Higginbalfam, former investigator. So next up, we'll take
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 3: a look at this. Here I came across this, Joe,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 3: did you know? Jack Martin wrote a letter to j
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: Edgar Hoover personally.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think I did.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, here we go, and this is to mister Sullivan,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: one of j Edgar Hoover's direct assistants. Okay, subject Jack
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: s Martin, New Orleans, Louisiana, request to speak with the
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: director personally. At six pm two twenty five, nineteen seventy one,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: Joe seventy one, an individual identifying himself to be Jack
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: s Martin Blah blah blah, Royal Street in New Orleans,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: telophonically asked to speak with the director. He subsequently asked
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: to speak with assistance to the director Sullivan and Moore,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: and was referred to Extra Duty Supervisor E and Best
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: Special Investigative Division. Martin claimed to be a reporter, with
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: the quote New Orleans Post Journal Joe. Apparently this New
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: Orleans Post Journal in nineteen seventy one was located where
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: Joe the Bolt building, I don't know, five point thirty
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: one Lafayette Street.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: It is highlighted, yes, yeah, and you know what that
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: happens to be, Joe, Yes, guy Bannister's office. Yeah, the
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: other side of it.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah? So what in the sam hell? In nineteen
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: seventy one, Martin is working for a paper called the
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: New Orleans Post Journal, housed in Banister's old office. How
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: ironic is that?
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Banister is dead in sixty four, so you're
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: talking like seven ish years after.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just interesting, a high coincidence. He advised that
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 3: he was calling concerning quote snooping, snooping. He advised he'd
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 3: been told by a trusted associate that he and his
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: office were under surveillance by the FB. I imagine that.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 3: He said. I guess I'm a bit of a nut,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: but I am on your side, and if you want
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: to speak to me, just come knock on the mother door. Okay,
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 3: he says, I see you, I know you're there. If
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: you want to talk to me, hey, I'm knock on
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: the door. Bro Bureau in New Orleans files characterized Martin
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 3: as being of questionable mental stability. And here we go, folks,
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: and it has noted that he was formally confused or
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: confined sorry to a psychiatric ward. Now at that point
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: it had been over, well not over, but close to
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 3: fifteen years since he'd been put in a mental institution.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 3: I believe twelve years prior. The New Orleans office advice
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 3: that Martin's is a self styled private investigator known at
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 3: the New Orleans office to be a psychopathic personality. New
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 3: Orleans also advised that he was recently the subject of
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: an impersonation investigation. What, Joe, I'm guessing this has have
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 3: to do with the Joseph Jack Joseph Jenny Martin of
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: the CIA.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah wow.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: But there is currently no active investigation concerning him. Interesting. Interesting,
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 3: So then I came across this. This is a lawsuit, Joe,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 3: a civil class action lawsuit from John F. English, Jack S. Martin,
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: doing business as Tri States News Service versus Jim Garrison,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: Elliott Richardson and James Eastland petition to show calls class action.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: Why order should not issue or not issue? I can't
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 3: tell to the honorable honorable judges of the United States
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: District Courts. Now into the honorable court come your petitioners,
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 3: John F. English and JS Jack Martin, who, respectfully, by
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 3: and according to these attached memorandums and enclosed evidence in
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 3: proof do air as follows to wit that honor about
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 3: the seventeenth or eighteenth of August nineteen seventy three, your
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 3: plaintiffs didn't notify both did defend it slipping into an
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 3: Indian accident. They're sorry what happened there? Jack Martin just
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: went to India. I get carried away with all this
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 3: proper English that they're trying. Obviously, Jack Martin wrote this right,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 3: And this lawsuit goes on.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: And on.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 3: And on, and I really never understood exactly what in
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: the sam hell they're suing Jim Garrison for, especially as
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: part of a class action lawsuit.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: Defamation. Defamation is the only thing I could think of.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 3: No, it wasn't defamation for defecation, No, no, no, But
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: anyway it goes through, and that the Honorable Court read thirdly,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 3: digest the appended memorandum and evidence of proof, examine its
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 3: witness and other individuals necessarily relative there too, and that
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: this shall be all said and done, set it closed,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: hearing trout date if feasible or needed to hear additional testimony,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 3: that upon such review or hearing, the Honorable Court so
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 3: direct by order full scale grand jury investigation Federal State
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 3: of these matters, and perhaps charge some of these culprits
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 3: immediately by directed vertic bench Warrant respectfully submitted John F.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 3: English petitioner JS check Martin petitioner ain't notarized. So I
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 3: did a little digging, Joe, I went deep down this
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole, son, So this is interesting. This is from
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: I believe the FBI Airtel December twenty eight, seventy three.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 3: So now it's more almost in nineteen seventy four, okay,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: the year of my birth and closed for the bureau
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 3: are four copies of a LHM captioned as above, and
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: this is concerning Gerald Gallinghouse, United States Attorney Eastern District
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: of Louisiana, J. S. Jack Martin, complainant Administrative Inquiry CC,
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 3: New Orleans. This is too, Director of the FBI, Jagar Hoover,
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 3: So enclosed with a bureau of four copies of the
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 3: LXM captions as above. No copies being furnished to the
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 3: USA and New Orleans. A view of the contents is
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 3: set forth in the enclosed LHM. New Orleans feels that
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 3: further investigation is not warranted and therefore this matter is
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: being placed into closed datus. But reference is made to
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 3: a memorandum dated November twenty third, seventy three from Robert Bork, An,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 3: Acting Attorney General to the Director FBI. Captioned letter of
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 3: Jack S. Martin, New Orleans, Louisiana, blah blah blah or
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: December third, JS Martin was contacted as a residence at
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: which time he provided the following information. He related that
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 3: in the past he has been a private investigator, but
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 3: currently considers himself to be a writer and periodically submits
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 3: articles to various newspapers in Texas and Mississippi, for which
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: he receives a whopping twenty five dollars per article that
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 3: he writes. Mister Martin advised that approximately two years ago
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 3: he had a conversation with a person by the name
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: of John English of New Orleans. Martin described English as
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: a quote promoter who is currently in the bail bonding
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 3: business at the time of his conversation about two years ago,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 3: English told Martin that the information he was to tell
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 3: Martin was furnished to him by g Ray Gill Junior,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 3: a New Orleans attorney. Okay, this document contains neither recommendations
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 3: nor conclusions of the FBI. That's the property of the
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 3: FBI and is alone to your agency, and its contents
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 3: are not to be distributed outside your agency. So these
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 3: are FBI documents that they gave to the CIA.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: For some reason.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 3: So this guy. John English went on to state that,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 3: prior to Gerald galling House becoming the United States Attorney
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 3: in New Orleans, Louisiana, galling House had been president of
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 3: the New York Orland's Levee Board. At the same time,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 3: galling House was also an attorney for the Pittman Construction
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 3: Company of New Orleans, and that galling House had been
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 3: instrumental in a thirty thousand dollars payoff to a local
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 3: judge which recruited or which resulted in a court settlement
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 3: in favor of the Pittman Construction Company, or which galling
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 3: House was the attorney. English told Martin that the favorable
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 3: court decision in favor of Pittman had been rendered by
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 3: David Gertler. English further told Martin that, according to Gil,
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 3: Gil had seen this payoff of thirty thousand dollars from
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: galling House to Judge Gertler. English further told Martin that
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 3: he had recorded, on two separate occasions, conversations with Gil
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 3: regarding the aforementioned matter, which would substantiate what Gil had
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: said in regards to Gallinghouse. Martin related that either the
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: same day or a few days later, he was at
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 3: the office of John English, at which time Martin talked
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: with Gill on the phone, which conversation was recorded by English.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 3: On this occasion, Gill reiterated and substantially the same information
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 3: in regards to the thirty thousand dollars payoff by Gallious
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 3: that he witnessed. Mark related that he personally does not
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 3: have any of these tape recordings. Of course he doesn't,
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: why would he, and that these recordings were maintained by English.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: Martin stated that his understanding that these tape recordings were
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: subsequently stolen from English and as a result English no
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 3: longer has them. Of course he doesn't. Martin stated that
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 3: the reason he has waited for two years to bring
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: the above information to the proper the authorities is that
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: he is a writer and felt that there might be
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 3: a quote story in regards to the information furnished by English.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 3: He stated, however, that because of the Watergate affair, which
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 3: has brought out corruption against high government officials, he felt
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 3: it was his duty now to bring this information to
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 3: the attention of the proper authorities. So basically, Jack Martin
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 3: and via John English, reluctantly. I guess English told Martin
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 3: a story and which he witnessed some dirty dealings, right,
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: but they have no proof. But of course Martin makes
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 3: it a big deal about everything, puts together a class
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 3: action lawsuits contacting the FBI demanded to talk to Hoover
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 3: all about this shit. That doesn't matter because at the
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 3: end of the day, at the end of the day,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 3: let's see September twenty seventh, seventy three the United States
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: District Court from District of Louisiana, John F. English, jackets Martin,
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 3: Tri State News Service Versus Jim Garrison, Elliot richards and
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 3: James Eastland. Judgment. The Court, having on September twenty sixth,
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three, granted the motion of the plaintiffs John T.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 3: English and jackets Martin to dismiss it is ordered a
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 3: judge and decreed that there'll be judgment in favor of
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 3: the defendants Jim Garrison, Elliott Richardson, and James Eastland, and
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: against the plaintiffs John English and Jack Martin, dismissing dismissing
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 3: the plaintiffs suit with costs New Orleans, Louisiana. This twenty
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 3: seventh day of September nineteen seventy three. So basically, the
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 3: court threw out their case and charged the costs of
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 3: everything to Jack Martin and John English for whatever.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: Reason attorney court costs, et cetera.
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now it's interesting. The only thing really interesting that
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 3: came out of this court case at all is that
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 3: Jack Martin gave a very interesting forty some page deposition.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 3: He was actually got deposed, right, So it's very interesting
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 3: because they go they go into all kinds of stuff
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna I'm gonna post this over at locals later,
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 3: maybe tomorrow, so if you're interested, you can read it.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 3: It's way too much to read it here. But there
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 3: is some things that kind of get thrown in here
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 3: and very interesting stuff. Now, the last thing I wanted
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 3: to talk about here, Joe Quick, I know we're we're
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 3: and ot here, but uh.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want.
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 3: I came across a document and and damn it. The
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 3: reason I've been reading a bunch of ship off the
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 3: off the screen tonight is because folks, I left my
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 3: print off documents at work today. I did not bring
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 3: them home, but fortunately I had for some reason. I
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 3: don't normally do it, but I uploaded a bunch of
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 3: them in here a couple of days ago, but I
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 3: was missing one that I really needed and I will
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 3: bring it to the next show, but it's it was
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 3: interesting enough to share with you. Now, I came across
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 3: a document and it was an FBI document, and it
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 3: was a conversation transcript basically between uh or No, it
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 3: wasn't a conversation. It was a letter from a very
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 3: prominent news reporter directly to j Edgar Hoover. Now, this
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 3: is somebody that he obviously had a personal relationship with.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 3: I don't mean sexual. I mean this guy was a professional,
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 3: really well known newsman. Okay, and he is snitching. This
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 3: guy is snitching straight to Hoover. So and I can't
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 3: I think it was about the Garrison investigation. I'm pretty
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 3: sure that that's what it was about what was going
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 3: on in New Orleans, and he was telling Hoover everything.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, who is this dude? Never heard of
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 3: the name before, and when I googled it, I was like,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 3: holy shit. Okay, so.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: Hmmm.
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 3: The snitch letter to Hoover was from a guy named Merryman.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 3: Smith was again first name Merriman. His first name is Albert,
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 3: but he went by Merriman. Okay, okay. So this guy
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 3: was an American wire service reporter, notably serving as White
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: House correspondent for the UPI and its predecessor, United Press.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 3: He had He won a Pulitzer Prize Joe in sixty
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: four for his coverage of the assassination of John F. Kennedy,
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: and was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in sixty
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 3: nine by Johnson. A little bit about this guy, he said,
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 3: He's known by his middle name and his nickname, Smitty
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 3: Merriman or Smitty. Smith covered US presidents from Franklin Delon
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 3: and Rooseveate Roosevelt to Richard Nixon, and originated the practice
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 3: of closing presidential news conferences with thank you, mister President,
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 3: which was the title of his nineteen forty six book
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 3: written during his coverage of the Harriet Truman administration. That
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 3: honor accorded to the senior wire service reporter president president
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: at presidential news conferences became more probably known when it
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 3: was continued by Smith's UPI colleague, the ever elderly Helen Thomas.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 3: So let's see on November the twenty sixth, Joe or
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 3: November twenty second nineteen sixty three, Smith was a UPI
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 3: reporter in Dallas for John F. Kennedy's visit. He traveled
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 3: into motorcade Joe in the White House pool car, which
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 3: had a radio telephone installed in it. When the shots
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 3: were fired, Smith grabbed the phone called the UPI office.
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 3: He stayed on the phone while Jack Bell, the AP
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: reporter in the car started beating the shit out of
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 3: Smith and yelling at him to hand over the goddamn phone.
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 3: At twelve thirty four pm, four minutes after the presidential shooting,
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 3: the report went out over UPI wire, and in nineteen
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 3: sixty four he received the Pulser Prize for his brave
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 3: coverage of the assassination of US President John F. Kennedy.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 3: He was the first person to publicly use the term
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 3: Joe grassy noel really really regarding the assassination.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: Hey, that's worth pull. Poults were right there.
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's getting the shit beat out of you.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 3: In nineteen sixties, Smith was a frequent guest on television
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 3: shows hosted by Jack Parr and MERV Griffin. Smith was
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 3: presented with a Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Lyndon
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 3: Johnson in nineteen sixty nine. He died in nineteen seventy,
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 3: desponding over the death of his son in the Vietnam
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 3: War and perhaps suffering from PTSD I'm sure as a
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 3: result of witnessing the Kennedy assassination seven years earlier. Smith
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 3: died at his home in Alexandria, Virginia, from a self
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: inflicted gunshot wound.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah.
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 3: Although he never served in the military himself, his grave
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 3: is in Section thirty two of Arlington National Cemetery, next
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 3: to his sons. By a special permission, Joe of the
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 3: Commanding General of the Military District of Washington for his
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 3: service to the country. At the end of the President's
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: press conference on May eight, nineteen seventy, concentrating on the
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 3: Kent State shootings and his decision to expand the warrant
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 3: to Cambodi and Nixon called on the White House Press
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: Corps to stand in Smith's remembrance. In nineteen seventy, the
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 3: White House Correspondence Association Joe established the Merrimo Smith Memorial
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 3: Award for excellence in presidential news coverage. Under deadline pressure,
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 3: his name was removed from the award. However, in twenty
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: twenty two because his ass got canceled. Why did he
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: get canceled and what did he do? I'll tell you.
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: Apparently he wasn't a big fan of black or female journalists,
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 3: and I had to keep them from getting memberships for
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 3: having memberships in the National Press Club and tried to
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 3: prevent them from attending the White House Correspondence dinner. Yeah,
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 3: it's good job, Merryman Smith, And I promise next week
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 3: i'll have the document that I can't do justice at
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: this very moment. But I thought it was interesting. I've
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 3: never heard of the dude. Turns out he was a
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 3: snitch for the FBI for Hoover, but he was also
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 3: in the motorcade and coined the term grassy no so wow.
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: They took his name off the award for decades because of.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 3: Some recent kind of It was only award for fifty
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 3: two years until in twenty twenty two they decided to
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 3: take it off because he didn't like black people. Are
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 3: women being reporters?
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: Interesting?
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway, I guess it's about that time Joe
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 3: for Dean Andrews to waddle it in.
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, as we can say goodbye, Yeah to everybody, thanks
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 3: for hanging with us tonight. It's been a glorious two
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 3: plus hours with you.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, and thank you everyone. You know, we Rob, We
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: are almost at eighteen hundred subscribers, and there is an
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: amount a percentage of people who watch the show that
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: are not subscribed, so we will you know, when we
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: talk about the subject, it's not necessarily pushed in the algo.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: So if you like the show, if you subscribe, comment
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: it really helped. We appreciate it. We love every single
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: one of you, literally we do. And uh yeah, next week, Rob,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: hopefully we'll be celebrating eighteen hundred.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. And we've been teetering on the
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 3: print for a little while. But yeah, we'll get there.
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 3: We'll get there, Joe. Eventually.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: It's a grind. It's a grind.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're like the we're like the tortoise. We will
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 3: get there eventually. Instead, you have to pace my friend.
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 3: H Yes, sir, all right, Dino, when the Saints come
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 3: marching in, Joe, it's time for us to close the show.
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 3: So I'm gonna further Ado.
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get Ruby to dance with me. Once you
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: put Tina.
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 12: Here, we go, Dino, prison he did not talk for
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 12: the record, but he said, come to Bourbon Street and
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 12: I'll show you what I think of the case. The
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 12: greatest lies are told in the name of truth. The
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 12: greatest crimes are committed in the name of justice. The
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 12: quotation is Jim Garrison's. It could be used for him
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 12: or against him in this strange case.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 3: Good Night, COUCHI