Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 8 Track 17: The Mythology Behind a Great Marketer w/Louis Monoyudis

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Album 8 Track 17: The Mythology Behind a Great Marketer w/Louis Monoyudis · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds. Oh, summertime, summer, summer, summertime. Summertime. All right. Shout, Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. Brand Nerds, I get excited when we have guests that have experiences that I can directly relate to, and this is one of those particular occasions. Number one, Larry, our next guest, doesn't just have experience on the agency side or on the client side. Our next guest has experience on both sides, agency and client, and started with agency. You know, a lot of folks, Brand Nerds, if they start on the agency side, they stay on the agency side. Folks that start on the client side, they stay on the client side. But I love when they, when they go back and forth. This, this next guest started on the agency side. Second, ooh, I love me some drip. I love fashion. So Brand Nerds, you wouldn't know it today, because today was, is a wellness day for me. I have chiro, I'm walking, trying to get my meditation game on. So I'm, I'm not really rocking it like I normally rock it, but I love... Someone grew up in Detroit. I love fashion, and I love luxury, and this next guest really understands fashion and luxury and the emotion that's connected to it. And finally, a story about how someone got into our marketing craft, but in a different way. Oh, these really make me excited, because you don't have to go the traditional route. You don't have to go get an MBA, and then go get some traditional brand training, and then find yourself in some senior position at an agency or a company. No, there's, there are many ways, many routes into the marketing craft. And this next guest, uh, LT, has a very interesting route into the craft of marketing. Larry, can you tell the peoples who we have the auspicious occasion to have in the building with us today? LT: Ooh, great preface, D. We have Louis Monoyudis in the house today. Welcome, Louis. Louis Monoyudis: Thank you for having me. LT: Louis, we're looking forward to this. Uh, we love your background, as DC alluded to. And for our Brand Nerds, you know, who are up-and-coming marketers, we really give them the full intro for how you became, uh, a success, so let me do that right now. So okay, Brand Nerds, we are coming to you today with someone who really understands how to build brands, and has done it many times from the C-suite as a CMO, COO, Chief Operating Officer, and CEO. Let's walk you through Louis' fantastic path. Louis earns his undergrad degree from Harvard in folklore and mythology. His first job is with Leo Burnett. That's where he- I'm, I'm sorry, Larry. DC: I, I, I don't want to interrupt you, 'cause I know you're gonna do a wonderful introduction, but can you just repeat what was this degree in again? I just wanna hear these words again. What was- LT: We're gonna hit this again, D, as you know, but Louis' degree, and which is really cool, from Harvard, undergrad degree, a BA is in folklore and mythology. DC: Okay, okay, okay. All right. LT: Thank you for getting me to repeat, but we will, we will be discussing this further. Okay. Okay. All right. H- His first job is, that's what DC was alluding to, is with Leo Burnett. And this is Leo Burnett, this is late-'90s Leo Burnett, when it's, that agency was one of the most renowned agencies in the world. Okay. As a brand strategist on something near and dear to us, where he actually helps launch Sprite in Latin America. D, check that out, right? And, and also This all is really cool. Not only is he launching, helping launch Sprite in Latin America, he also works on Motorola's early mobile devices and Morgan Stanley's investment services for successful female execs, which is really cool. The diversity of consumers there is awesome. While this serves as a fantastic marketing and business foundation,  Louis is really interested in design, again, what DC was alluding to, and goes back to school at Parsons School of Design, earning a degree in fashion design. Armed with this degree,  Louis goes to work at Calvin Klein as an assistant designer, where he is part of a team that launches two new divisions under the white label, wholesale Macy's and off-price retail, which is a brick-and-mortar outlet store chain, okay, where they grow annual sales to $500 million. With this success, he jo- he joins another designer, John Varvatos Enterprises, as associate designer recruited to launch Star USA Bridge Line. After successfully doing this, Calvin Klein calls him back to work on the same business units as before, a white label, a wholesale Macy's, and off-price retail, but this time as the designer. In this role, he helps them launch into 11 retail doors in a mall such as the Beverly Center in LA. All right. Clearly,  Louis is firmly ensconced in the world of fashion designers, and he now gets an opportunity at Tommy Hilfiger to lead the launch of a full-price vertical retail concept called Tommy, starting with two retail locations in the US. Of course, this entails the design and development for all licensed product categories comprised of more than 100 core SKUs and more than 500 seasonal SKUs, and developing and executing the multimedia marketing plans from strategic planning and concept development straight through implementation in the marketplace. All right, brand nerds. With our awesome guests like  Louis, we usually call out the key pivots in one's career. Here comes  Louis's key pivot. He becomes founder and CEO of Cut On Your Bias as a first-time entrepreneur and sole founder, creating proprietary and patent-pending technology, merging crowdsourcing and e-commerce, allowing users to vote on and then shop their favorite combinations of fabric, color, and silhouette. He does this for more than three years with highlights including, number one, championing the first crowdsourcing platform for designer level fashion. Two, growing re- revenue 210% from year one to year two, and he's raised more than a million dollars in seed round from high net worth angels. He then moves on to be co-founder, CMO of Bright Blue Luxury Shopping Guides with highlights including spearheading capital raising events yielding more than a million dollars in seed funding. Number two, exceeding year one sales goals by partnering on sponsorships with luxury brands including Gucci, Burberry, et cetera. Securing more than 400 hotel partners for distribution, including the Ritz-Carlton, Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, and building relationships with more than 1,000 concierges for referral business to the brand D, you notice a, a, a trend here? Results, results There's a trend DC: emerging. There's a trend emerging LT: Is it right? All right.  Louis is then tapped on the shoulder to join Outer Places as their COO, launching an e-commerce division within the company focused on a mystery box subscription service, sort of the Birchbox of the science fiction industry. Highlights include selling more than 1,500 units in the first 30 minutes of the launch, and helping grow Outer S- Outer Places website traffic 323% and social media audience 819%. All right, Brand Nerds, we are sure you are noticing everywhere  Louis goes, he delivers results and others take notice, too. This means private equity companies really like people like  Louis to come in at the C-suite since they know  Louis successfully builds brands, grows revenues, and ultimately boosts their investment. This is the foundation to all his moves going forward. The next one is CEO at Always From Me, a direct con- a direct-to-consumer plus-size women's brand. The key here, and something  Louis is rightfully proud of,  Louis and his team changes the positioning and the messaging to be rooted in emotion rather than function. Of course, results follow, including thwarting a 40% three-year decline in revenue by turning it around and growing gross profit 11% and top line revenue 5%, increasing mobile revenue 35%, and growing conversions in the very important 18 to 24 year olds by 44% and the 25 to 35 year... to 34 year olds by 23%. Again, huge results. This all leads to a successful exit where one private equity firm sells to another PE firm.  Louis now moves on to his next success where he joins another D2C brand, an early-stage customizable luggage named Roam as their CMO. Highlights at Roam include starting generating a 376% increase in year one sales, overseeing a 32x growth of email list in year one which generates 33% of total revenue, driving a 201% improvement in overall conversion and a 76% increase in mobile conversion.  Louis's next move is becoming CMO of Levo, directing all marketing and sales strategy for this D2C e-commerce innovation infusion appliance brand. Highlights there include driving 5x growth exclusively through e-commerce and Amazon channels, growing email subscribers by 30x to 600... more than 600,000, uh, which becomes 27% of their top line revenue, and launching SMS marketing accounting for 17% of top line revenue. As we said, L- It, it, DC: it... No, go ahead, Larry. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead LT: As we said,  Louis's success generates more demand for him. He is then recruited to join Fable Pets, a premium D2C pet accessory company, as their CMO. Highlights include, again, D, we're seeing the same trend, evolving brand strategy and positioning to become the premium player in the vertical, doubling revenue, yes, doubling revenue in the first 12 months, and growing gross profit margin by 12%. The hits keep coming.  Louis then joins D2C Bokksu, an authentic Japanese food and lifestyle company.  Louis's the global CMO, where he oversees a portfolio of six distinct brands and business divisions, all with a focus on sharing Japanese food and culture worldwide. Highlights there include $100 million-plus in lifetime revenue and more than two million boxes shipped, growing efficiently with 3X lifetime value versus customer acquisition cost, which translates to a payback period under three months. And in 2024, they become one of Inc.'s fastest-growing companies in the Northeast. Of course, this leads to  Louis's current situation, where he is CMO at Artware Editions, a premier destination for artist-led functional objects, bridging the worlds of modern and contemporary art, design, and commerce. On the side,  Louis has a love of travel, which he has extrapolated into being a luxury travel advisor with FORA and the owner of Groove Jet Travel, where he designs personalized, high-touch i- itineraries for clients who want to travel to feel seamless, meaningful, and beautifully crafted. He specializes in safaris, Morocco, Europe, South America, and warm weather escapes across the Caribbean, Mexico, Hawaii, and Southeast Asia.  Louis is also a very in-demand keynote speaker, talking about his success for helping D2C brands emotionally connect brand and consumer. We're really looking forward to this one. Welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes,  Louis Monoyudis Louis Monoyudis: Thank you. That was quite the ego boost. Appreciate that. DC: Ah, uh, I became bored of all of the 200, 300% increases, 30 times. It, it, it all became so ho-hum, Louis. Okay? I'm s- I'm sorry. Geez. Oh, my goodness. Uh, wow, man. Wow. LT: D, I have to say this. Yes. Louis, we were struck by this. You know, man, you didn't have one, like, one company there that you didn't go... Like, we've all been in situations that, uh, and you've been in them, that were really difficult, and you still managed to generate growth, and that's incredible. That truly is- Yeah ... incredible in every situation. So I, I just wanted to say that. Very, very, uh, awesome work. Louis Monoyudis: Thank you. Appreciate that. DC: Awesome, brother. And shout out Shawna- Yes ... for introducing us to Louis. Shout out Shawna. Yes. Who's also appeared, uh, on our, uh, on our little- Yes ... podcast here. Louis, we're gonna get to our next section. It is called Get Comfy. Before, however, I ask this question to get you into the groove, I'm gonna point out a couple of more potential connections between you and I- Hmm which I'm curious. Your early experience at Leo Burnett and the Sprite brand in Latin America, when was that work, if you could give me the years so I can place it in my head as a timeline? Louis Monoyudis: Yes. So this was the late '90s. DC: Late '90s. Louis Monoyudis: And, um, Sprite was already there, so what we were doing was looking at how we could grow and continue to scale the business. And something really dynamic emerged from customer research. So we had local market partners that were doing a lot of focus groups that- Mm-hmm ... obviously understood. And carbonated beverages are consumed differently around the world. Mm-hmm. In the US, oftentimes they replace water, for better or worse. What we saw, um, particularly in areas of Latin America, was that, and particularly with Sprite, in addition to being kinda drunk, you know, every day, it was also being in some ways substituted for champagne at moments of celebration. Mm. Wow. So once we were able to tap into that and say, "Oh, if we can place Sprite not only, you know, at, um, sporting events and kinda everyday activities, but also at quinceañeras and baptisms and weddings- Oh, yeah, yeah ... and graduations, that's gonna have a real local market resonance for the brand," and that really helped it to succeed a bit further. DC: Oh. That's, that's... I did not know that. Um- LT: That's really cool. And if he didn't know it, that's saying something. DC: Yeah, I di- Yeah ... I didn't know it. So Louis, you may or may not know that, um, the repositioning of the Sprite brand, also in the '90s, um, when Obey Your Thirst was birthed, um, I happened to, uh, play a role in that, uh, with the brand. Amazing. Yeah. It was great. Yeah. LT: The key role. He's being modest. DC: And, uh, was Obey Your Thirst the strap line that was being used in, uh, the work that you did, or did you all do something different? Louis Monoyudis: I believe it was. DC: You believe it was Obey Your Thirst. I believe it was. Okay. Yeah. So that's one connection. The second connection, potentially, is, uh, the work that you did with Motorola. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah. DC: And so when I left the Coca-Cola Company, I went to a startup at the time in Irvine, California called Boost Mobile. Oof. And we were only in California with a smattering in Nevada. And our five-person management team, our mandate was to launch the brand, uh, wireless brand across the, the US. And the only handset, the only brand that we used was Motorola. Mm. So this is in the early aughts. So when did you do work with Motorola? Louis Monoyudis: This was also late '90s, early 2000s. Okay, yep. And Motorola, I can't remember what the device was called, but it was one of the first texting devices on the market. DC: Ah, okay. Yep, yep, yep. Louis Monoyudis: Um, so we were working on the brand positioning and getting that out and about into the marketplace. So this was even, like, I think pre-BlackBerry. Like, it was- Pre-BlackBerry, okay. Right, right. LT: Okay. Yeah. It was when you had to, it's when you had to use the numbers. Like, you know, you had to, you, you had to play like each of the, you know, with the, the alphabet, like eight was TUV. Yes. And you had to- Yeah, you had to hit the number right. Remember that? DC: I do re- I remember that with handsets. I do remember that. Yeah. Louis Monoyudis: Yes. DC: And so that's the second connection. But the third one is the most interesting to me, and that is, uh, John Varvatos. Yeah. So Brand Nerds, for those of you who may not know, we talked about fashion earlier, John Varvatos is a renowned designer, and he is an American designer, which is not all that common in recent decades. So most of the renowned designers are from somewhere other than the US. But John Varvatos, he, he, not only is he from the US, he's from the Midwest, he's from Detroit- Mm ... and he's a heavy music dude. He likes rock. Uh, y- you see these themes through his, uh, his fashion. So I, also grown up in Detroit, also a music person, also a person who loves fashion, I discovered John Varvatos. And Brand Nerds, if you've never been, I don't know if it's still there or not,  Louis, but he's got a flagship store in Detroit on Woodward- Yeah ... uh, Avenue and John R. That place is super dope. It, it, it is super dope. I've been in there many times and have left light in the pocket- ...  Louis, after, after going there. But I just wanna talk, give, give you that as another connection we have. So we have all kind of connections,  Louis. Yeah. We have all kind of connections. Yeah. All right. So with that, I'll, I'll get into the question for, uh, Get Comfy. That was all set up. This, we getting into the Get Comfy. So w- we tipped our hand a little bit at the beginning, uh, th- the, the young brother is at Harvard, and he, he finishes with a folklore and myth- mythology, uh, degree. So this is a two-part question. The first is, did you know when you arrived on campus in Cambridge that you were going to be in folklore and mythology? Did you already know that beforehand? And then the second question is, as you were finishing up your university studies, what did you think you might do with such a degree? Louis Monoyudis: Mm-hmm. Great questions. Mm. And ones that I certainly fielded from my parents. Mm. When I entered Harvard, I was a physics/pre-med major. Now- Oh ... Harvard didn't have a dedicated- Oh, wow ... pre-med track, so you usually went into one of the sciences and- Okay ... cobbled together the correct coursework to make yourself a viable candidate. Mm-hmm. And I got through about a year and a half of that. Mm. And I remember looking to my left and to my right- Mm-hmm ... and saying, "I'm not sure these are the people I wanna spend-" "... the rest of my adult life working with." Mm. Mm. Super smart, but super intense, and I was maybe just looking for a different pace. Mm. And I had taken, on a whim, introductory, Introduction to Folklore and Mythology, Folk and Myth 50 it was called, and it was all about the power of narrative and storytelling and understanding culture through tradition and ritual. Mm-hmm. And I found it fascinating. So once I realized I was probably not gonna move forward with the scientific aspect of my studies, I thought, "If I'm gonna do liberal arts, I can do history, English anywhere in the country, but there's only five universities that offer this obscure concentration of folklore and mythology." LT: Mm-hmm. Louis Monoyudis: "So why not take advantage of that?" LT: And- To the chagrin of your parents, but go ahead. Louis Monoyudis: Well, I will say, to my parents' credit, they were so proud that I was at Harvard. Of course, yeah. And they said, "You know what?" Unless you're going into graduate school, no one really cares- Sure ... as much about your degree. They're just gonna see- LT: You went to Harvard ... Louis Monoyudis: that you completed school and that you did Harvard. Mm-hmm. And if that's what's gonna get you excited and have you enjoy this incredible investment of time and money and energy, then do that. LT: Shout out your parents, please. Louis. Shout out their names. That's really cool. Louis Monoyudis: Yes, very generous. LT: Um- Can you shout out their names, by the way? That's really- Louis Monoyudis: Oh, yeah. Uh, Jim and Julie Monoyudis. LT: All right. Yeah. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah. Great. Super cool. Great. Incredible, incredible advice. LT: Yep. Louis Monoyudis: So as obtuse as that field of study sounds, it really did lay the groundwork for my entire career, because what is marketing and branding if not fundamentally narrative and storytelling? Yep. Mm-hmm. So it really was, if you think about anthropology as having two subdivisions, one being archeology, where you understand a culture through the physical remains, pottery, et cetera, uh, folklore and mythology is understanding a history and a culture through its non-physical remains. So this is language, dance, food, things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, so it was a lot about the spoken word and a lot about the stories and the belief systems that we create. LT: Mm-hmm. Wow. That's very cool. DC: Okay. Uh, now Larry, uh, can I just ask him a, a quick follow-up? LT: Please go, D. Please go. DC: So you go from very much so a different type of discipline, pre-med with a physics bent, to a narrative storytelling area. You're now beyond a year and a half inside of your studies. You're nearing graduation. Louis Monoyudis: Mm-hmm. DC: What, what were you thinking or what did you know that would lead to for a career? I get looking left and right and saying, "I don't wanna be with these jokers." But how did you decide- Yeah ... like where you would look left and right and be happy? Louis Monoyudis: Great question. Yeah. Yeah, great question. Um, so I always thought that physics was the poetry of the universe. It was a way to understand everything happening around us in the physical world. Mm-hmm. In many ways, understanding how cultures behave, it was very similar to physics in some ways. You know, there's a- Mm-hmm cause and effect around if you can create these belief systems, people will, in some ways, form community, form ritual, build huge temples, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, I always was interested in fashion and marketing and thought that this could lead into it. Now, the challenge being coming out of Harvard, the most recruited disciplines are understandably investment banking, management consulting- Mm-hmm um, and then going into maybe, like, big brand roles at a place like a Kraft or a Disney, things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, so coming out of college, I did apply for some fashion jobs to be a buyer at Neiman Marcus and Saks. Mm-hmm. Um, and I did get offers, and then I also saw a table at the recruiting stand for Leo Burnett. Didn't know a ton about that agency, but as I went through the interview process and really had an opportunity to dive into their incredible history- Yeah ... of launching the Jelly Green Giant and the Ronald McDonald and Altoids and doing so much work with Disney and Coke and other massive brands, I thought, "This is gonna be an incredible spot to begin my career." LT: And it was, correct? Louis Monoyudis: Oh my gosh, yes. LT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Larry? No, I love this because, I mean, you know, we had a quick conversation yesterday w- as we were getting ready for the podcast, um, and, and Louis brought this up. And I mean, ultimately folklore and mythology are the foundation to storytelling, right? And so, you know, it is, uh, it is a great platform to get into our business, quite candidly. And, and I think, you know, Louis and, to the credit of Louis and the folks at Leo Burnett, they, they all quickly realized that that was a, that was a great place, uh, for one to start. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah. DC: So Louis and Larry, Larry knows this. The beauty of these podcasts for us, we learn. We get to converse with some of the most interesting people in the world, and it expands our mind- Yep ... because of the perspective of our guest. And you are giving us that gift by appearing today. And I wanna point to a specific example right now. I had never heard of the discipline of folklore and mythology. The first time I'd ever read about it as a discipline, I've heard the words obviously, was when I was reading through the script that we have to introduce our guest. And I have to tell you, I had a WTF moment. I, I was like, "What, what is this?" I had no idea what it was. Uh, and now hearing you describe the narrative, the, the cultural expression and how you have bifurcated physical artifacts like pottery and things that you can s- you can touch and see in a culture, and everything that is not a physical artifact, they're still artifacts, but they are language, and sounds, and, uh, uh, folk stories, et cetera. That's the difference between the two. I thought to myself, "Ah, this is what I've learned from you already,  Louis." That's like a brand. Yeah. 'Cause a brand has both. It can have a physical artifact like a can of Coke, and then it can have the non-physical artifact, which I dare say is the more important thing, which are all of the stories and rituals, uh, surrounding it. Just like when you talked about Sprite in Latin America, and Sprite being consumed around celebrations. That's a ritual, and there's a story around that. So now I am really better understanding how the discipline of, uh, folklore and mythology is in fact congruent with branding. The best- Yep. That's really- Yeah interesting to me,  Louis. Louis Monoyudis: And we'll take it a step further. I was telling Larry yesterday, there was an incredible moment cemented in my memory of being at college, and one of my professors asked a very simple question. Mm-hmm. "What's the only difference between religion and mythology?" And it comes down to one core tenant, which is belief. Mm-hmm. If you believe in the stories- Mm-hmm ... they become an entire way of living, an entire way to view the world. If not, like the tales of Zeus and Apollo- Yeah ... they become relegated to stories that we treat as literature. But those stories were just as powerful as any of today's modern religions because people believe in them. So taking that idea of belief- Yeah ... absolutely translates into the stories we're trying to tell to build community around our brands. DC: Excellent. LT: Love that. I'm, I'm so glad you brought that up, Louis, because I think that's truly deep and it, it really got me to thinking. I was thinking about that last night, Louis. That's how much it resonated with me. And, you know, uh, y- there is, there, uh, there is that bridge, like, what's the difference? And ultimately, you know, we talk about brand lovers, and the brand lovers are, are at the highest level of belief, right? And so, you know, having the understanding of the narrative of storytelling and, and, uh, and the roots that you have is really tremendous. And we- you can see obviously through all the work that you've done, it's, it's rooted in that, which is really cool. DC: I'll say this quickly before we move on to our five questions, Louis. But this professor, what was the professor's name by the way that talked about the difference between the two? Do you recall? Louis Monoyudis: Hmm. Professor Deborah Foster. DC: Okay. Professor Deborah Foster. Professor Deborah Foster, we are shouting you out here on Brands Beats and Bytes through your, uh, one of your prize pupils, Louis. The difference between religion and what, mythology- Yeah ... is, is belief. Louis Monoyudis: Belief. DC: Well, she, she asked the question, uh, to which you all, I'm sure in the moment looked a bit puzzled, and then- LT: Yes DC: gave, gave the answer of belief. I'm now, um, picking on this word, picking up this word belief and thinking about my own life, and I believe this could apply to others, but there's a near correlation of one to that which I believe and its value. So, and so I happen to believe that through fashion, through what one adorns themselves with, I believe that because 95% of communication is non-verbal, you, you, you know this, Louis, that when I walk into a setting, based on what I have on, there's something being communicated before I utter a word. Mm-hmm. So that's my belief. So because that's my belief, I, I place a higher value on fashion. Whereas someone else, if they don't have that belief about the power of fashion and non-verbal communication and what it can say or not say about you, fashion's not gonna have that kind of value. So if you, you go to them and you say, uh, uh, uh, some, some wonderful brand, they would go, "Why would I ever spend that amount of money on that brand?" No. They, they... It, it would be, uh, irrelevant. In fact, for many of them, they would think it's dumb. But, but I think there is a correlation, near one, of belief, level of belief, either high or low, to level of value, high or low. Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. DC: Yes. All right, cool. I'll go to, uh, five questions. So Louis, this is the way this will go down. Larry and I will ask you questions back and forth until we arrive at five. I get to begin. Take yourself back, way, way back, when you had a brand or brand experience, you could not get enough of it. You could not spend enough time with the brand or inside of the brand experience. Y- y- it, it dominated your thoughts. It, it just did something to your heart, to your soul, Louis, a bit like a first love. What was this brand for you? Louis Monoyudis: Great question. The brand that really resonated with me starting in my teenage years was Calvin Klein. Calvin Klein. And this was Calvin Klein in the '90s when Calvin Klein- Mm-hmm ... was still at the brand, when you had Marky Mark on a huge- Oh, yeah billboard in Times Square. Sure. Yeah. You had- I can LT: see Louis Monoyudis: it now. LT: Yep ... Louis Monoyudis: see it now with Calvin Klein underwear. You had the launch of Kate Moss through the Calvin Klein campaigns. But what really resonated with me, and this was during college, during the college years, was when CK One came out. Now- Mm. Yeah, yeah the idea of unisex fragrance, unisex- Right ... clothing, gender-neutral or gen- like, non-gendered products in general was- Talk about ahead LT: of his time, by the way, in that, right? Louis Monoyudis: No one else was doing it. Yeah. Yeah. No one else was talking about it, at least not with such a large audience. LT: Right. Louis Monoyudis: And I can still... I mean, I had the ads plastered on my, you know, my bedroom wall in college. Um, I can still see it in my mind, you know, of, like, gender non-conforming, um, these beautiful black and white ads just- Mm-hmm ... with all different types of people that all looked so cool and chic and effortless. Mm-hmm. That was a brand that cut through the clutter and still rings true to me. LT: I love this. DC: I do, too. Really like it. LT: D, thoughts? DC: No, you, you first, please. LT: So I love this,  Louis. That fits perfectly, and one of the things that we love when this happens,  Louis, and this happens quite a bit, is that- Folks that we have as guests, uh, they talk about their favorite brand and somehow, some way, they end up working on that brand. Yeah. Right? And there's ... I don't know if there's a manifestation thing going on there. I personally think there is. Um, but it's really cool when that happens. And so someone like yourself who had the pictures up on their dorm wall or, or in, in college or even earlier and, you know, as you said, as a teen, and then you're working on that brand, there's a bit of a surreal feeling to it, right? Mm-hmm. Can you, can you talk about that, um, you know, having had that as a favorite brand and then getting to work on that brand? Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely. It's a dream come true to walk through those halls, to ... They had this incredible archive of look books from the '80s and the '90s of model castings. E- explain to the Brand LT: Nerds what a look book is to make sure they understand. Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely. So a look book is a compendium of the styles for the season- Right ... which is usually shared with buyers at department stores, so everything that comes down the runway or that goes into production. Um, they also had the books from the castings from the fashion shows. So I remember flipping through that, and there's Naomi, young Naomi Campbell, young Cindy Crawford, young Kate Moss, you know- Right all of these, um, models in their early years just showing up for a model casting, getting a Polaroid of them, and then getting thrown into a book and, you know, seeing where they were later. So it was really an incredible opportunity to do it. Um, and also 'cause there's not, uh, like you were saying, DC, there's not a lot of homegrown American designers that- Yeah come onto the, um, global stage. And Varvatos, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger, um, I had the opportunity to work at all three brands. DC: Nice. Uh, Calvin Klein. I now recognize what I was drawn to in watching their early marketing. This is even before CK One. Louis Monoyudis: Hmm. DC: With almost every other brand that I saw, whether it was an out-of-home board or back then, Brand Nerds, magazines were really popular, physical magazines. So you'd have a lot of these designer ads in the, uh, in the magazines. But it mo- mostly the fashion industry was, uh, photography led. Photography led. There were some brands that would have, uh, video, but most of them really became established through the quality of the photography. Hmm. What was different about Calvin Klein than any other brand, and I'm just really coming to this conclusion now, is with the other fashion brands, the photographers were capturing a photo. That's what they were doing. So that's what you'd see in out-of-home- Hmm ... and in print. With Calvin Klein, the photographers felt like they were capturing a moment. Louis Monoyudis: Mm-hmm. DC: Different than a photo. So I, I understood that there was a photo shoot that went on with Marky Mark and Naomi Campbell and all of these different famous... At the time, they weren't all that famous, 'cause he got 'em more on the way up- Up and coming ... they later became iconic. But the, the, the, the f- the photography seemed to capture them doing some regular stuff. Even yourself,  Louis, you mentioned there might be some Polaro- Polaroids, and it, it just looked like you might be taking a Polaroid, but it just happens to be Naomi Campbell who's taking a, uh, a Polaroid. So that is a, um, a key distinction I, I think some of the best brands, is that they're not overproduced, which points to now how so many brands are blowing up on social media with content that is not overproduced. LT: Yep. DC: It's very much a collection of moments. All right, Larry, you wanna hit the next question, brother? LT: Let's do it. So  Louis, um, who has had or is having the most influence on your career? Louis Monoyudis: I would say Professor Deb Foster with that one question really gave me a framework. At that... As soon as I heard that, I started to question my own belief system and think about where I was giving loyalty, where I was giving allegiance, and realized that it was centered around some core beliefs that I had, some aspirations I had in looking for places, brands, opportunities that would support those. So even today, I mean, I talk about that moment so often because it really rings true LT: That's really cool. And, uh, by chance, are you still in touch with Professor Foster? Have you had any, uh, conver- you know, any, any in touch with her? Louis Monoyudis: I am. So she invited me to give a talk at Harvard, um, several years ago, um, as part of a folklore mythology symposium, which was an incredible honor to be there- Sure giving, uh, a lecture. And then I was in touch with her last year as I was working on a keynote and wanted to get some insight from her as well. So I'll be sure to share this episode with her. She'll be thrilled. Oh, LT: please. Uh, a- and I'm sure she's thrilled by your success and understanding how, you know, that moment has really been the, the, the roots and foundation for your career. And it's really deep and really true, Professor Foster. Great stuff. DC: Absolutely. LT: Do you wanna get to the next question, or you have anything else? DC: Let's do it. No, I do not. Louis, this is, this, this might be a bit of a challenge for you, this next question, given all of the wonderful successes that you've had across a range of different industry and the trajectory of the hockey stick, if you will, of the growth of the, uh, businesses and brands that you've touched. But this next question has nada to do with any of your successes. This next question, my brother Louis, has to do with failure, a loss, one that you would consider one of the biggest, if not the biggest of your career. And this was on you, Louis, not, not any, well, the private equity folks, they decided to, to cut- Mm-hmm the investment. None of that bullshit. Just on you, you made the mistake, Louis. And most importantly, for the Brand Nerds, and take yourself back to the seat you were in, in C- in Cambridge, what did you learn from it? And think about yourself back then, what you'd want to say to yourself about what you learned from said mistake so that you could help yourself either avoid that mistake or do better. Go ahead. Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely. And it's a, such a great question. I'm glad that you bring it up. The common thread I would imagine in a lot of the responses you receive to this question has to do with hubris. So in mythology- Yep ... a famous story of hubris is Icarus, who flew- Icarus. The DC: son, the son of Daedalus. Flying too close to the sun now. That's a warm Louis. Louis Monoyudis: Who flies too close to the sun, and his wings melt even though he was cautioned not to. And he kept- Right ... getting higher and higher, and it was fine, and it was fine until it wasn't. I LT: got this. I'm good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Louis Monoyudis: I'm good. So the- This is a key element of the keynote addresses I do, and it's really, I think, important for anybody who is a founder or thinking about being a founder, or is at a founder-led brand. Which is- Mm ... so much of being at a brand like that or of starting your own company- Mm-hmm ... is autobiographical. And for a certain point of that company's success, all of the decisions can run through your own personal filter because you are your core target audience. There comes a tipping point, though, when you may no longer be your core audience, and for the company or the brand to continue to scale, you have to get out of your own way, drop your ego, and say, "I'm gonna listen to my customers as opposed to just going with my gut instinct." Mm. Which means you need to have data infrastructure around you, you need to have a listening process in place. Mm-hmm. And this gets to my failure. Mm-hmm. So after leaving corporate fashion, I started Cut On Your Bias, which we talked about, designer level crowdsourced e-commerce platform. And I had this incredible network of people from the fashion industry living in New York who were my beta testers, and they all loved it. Who wouldn't wanna go online and help design stuff with different brands and- So cool ... wait a few weeks for it to get shipped to you? But what happened is I was surrounding myself with people who reinforced my own way of thinking. And whenever I would present my idea to someone who said, "I don't really get it," or, "I don't really want to play designer, that's why they're designers and I'm not a designer," or, "I really just want to buy something and have it arrive the next day, not wait for it to get produced," which was part of the model. I said, "You know what? They just don't get it. I am so far ahead of the curve- ... that I'm gonna target the early adopters." Right. "And by the time I'm ready to scale to them, they're gonna be ready to buy what I'm selling." DC: They'll figure it out. Louis Monoyudis: They'll figure it out. And that was my hubris of not- Mm ... actually actively listening and only hearing what I wanted to hear. So yes, Cut On Your Bias had some success. And we, to make matters even worse, the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, all these publications were interviewing me. I was going on panels about the future of digital fashion. Like, all the signals and validation were there except, at the end of the day, I couldn't scale the business beyond those early adopters. And I got to a point where I said, "You know what? Either I have to completely transform this company, or I'm gonna have to shut it down and look for my next opportunity," which is what happened. LT: This is good, D. This is really good. DC: Go ahead, brother. Go ahead, Larry. LT: So question for you,  Louis. So you described that really well, and in retrospect, were there simply just not enough of you and your friends to grow this, to have this be a real business, and you didn't understand that at first? Like you said, you had the hubris of thinking, "Well, people would just... don't get this." By the way, I could totally see myself making that same mistake. Um, a- or, or was it you were too soon? Like, you n- you know what I mean? Like, if you had to do it all over again, would you even do it at all, I guess is what I'm trying to ask. Louis Monoyudis: Great question. So would I do it again? Absolutely. Was it incredibly painful, probably the most painful professional experience I've had? Absolutely. And you need those scars. We all talk- You do ... about embracing failure. But it sucks at the time. Yeah. You really are questioning every decision you've made that led you there. Was it the wrong place, wrong time? I don't think so. Can you think of any other designer-level crowdsourced platforms out there? No, because- No. No ... there were others that have come and gone, and they've either pivoted into other business models, or they just didn't make it as well. So it's just not quite the type of concept. I think we are seeing an increase in terms of customization that people can do. Right. But it's a very small subset. Um- Right ... if you think about men's dress shirts, do you want a mitered cuff or a regular cuff? Like- Right ... that's an easy decision. Right. Are you asking women to, like, think about, like, different, completely different silhouettes, and have to make some tough decisions around those? It's not really something that's built into the e-com process. LT: Right. Interesting. Yeah. Very cool. V- uh, uh, ooh, that's a g- really good one. Dee, what are you thinking? DC: I got two things. Two things. The first one,  Louis, you said, uh, uh, to, to set up the example about hubris, you talked about founder-led organizations- Louis Monoyudis: Yeah DC: and how they also, they become autobiographical. Expressions of the founder and what the founder has in their mind. They are their brand lover and primary target audience, so they just make it for themselves. And then they make decisions based on that, and then other people buy into it. And you mentioned hubris, and you said, "There's a point. There comes a point where one needs to drop the ego. There comes a point." You've lived this. What are the brand nerds who are founders leading organizations, or maybe in an organization that's founder-led- What can you tell them that you learned about when is the time, where's the pivot come where it's like this might be the time, founder, to s- like, f- fly back away from the sun? Louis Monoyudis: Mm-hmm. DC: What, what, what's that time? Louis Monoyudis: Mm-hmm. The correct answer here is you should be doing this from the very beginning. Ah, okay. And especially with AI, you can now collect so much customer sentiment at once- Oh, yeah ... and analyze it, and have it compare against your strategy regarding merchandising, color assortment, pricing, whatever it is, and really start to leverage that in a way that you could never do before. Even if you're an individual founder with no team- Mm-hmm ... you now have the equivalent of a business intelligence unit at your fingertips. That said, I tend to, when I'm advising companies, it's usually when they're at the 5 to $10 million mark, when you're starting to find, um, product market fit. You have some initial success, you're looking to scale, and you're like, "It's so much harder to get that additional customer, to get that additional order from existing customers. Why is that?" And that's when you have to really think about, is it something that we're doing that we could improve? Is it customer fatigue? If so, how do we get them back excited, et cetera? DC: Okay. Now my second point. Um, we're just meeting one another, Louis. Yeah. And I dare not think that if we knew each other then, that I could possibly have advised you. But I'm going to tell you why I think, in addition to the hubris, that did not work for you. Mm. And I wanna give an example in fashion, but in a different lane of fashion, I think. Sneakers. Louis Monoyudis: Mm. DC: There's a place, uh, I don't know if it's still open or not, in New York called Flight Club. Louis Monoyudis: Mm. DC: And, and for you, uh, sneakerheads out there, you will know this, it is a famous sneaker shop where you go and get shoes that are limited edition, hard to find. So think of it as the Sothersby of the sneaker game. You go in there, they'll have it. It look- it's Saran Wrap. They have one up, and I mean, you can, you can drop a lot of money for these place, for the, for these shoes. So I used to go to Flight Club, pick up shoes occasionally. And then Nike came up with this wonderful idea called Nike ID. Yep. And Louis, I could not wait to go to Nike ID. You can make your own shoe, your own colorway. Yep. You can do all the things. So here I am, I'm rocking up. It's a nice little studio vibe. You go in, you got... They make you feel like you're a designer. They give you all of these choices, you- colors, patterns, all of this good... So I was picking all of the stuff. I just picked it all. They were guiding me a little bit, but it was my shoe. My shoe. Then they would, they, then they would make it. I had to wait weeks. Oh, Louis, I was just so excited. Anticipation. Finally, weeks later, the box arrived. And I think it may have even had, like, designed by DC. LT: Oh, man. It, it did. I, I did it too. You did. So I... Yep. DC: Oh, and I m- I got Air Force 1s. I just, I, I popped open the box with glee. I took out the shoe and looked at it and paused and said- This is a fucking ugly ass shoe. Okay? Okay. I, I will never wear this shoe in public. LT: What was I thinking? DC: Yeah. What, what in the world was I... And the reason why is because I'm not a designer- Right ... to your other point. But then I think there's a more fundamental reason why. By the way, Nike ID did not work. Mm-hmm. It did not work. Mm-hmm. Uh, just like, uh, unfortunately your, your, uh, idea, Louis, did not also work. But there's a more fundamental reason why I believe both did not work, and it's not I'm a designer, uh, I, I'm not a designer and you are. I think the more fundamental reason has to do with the human species and what we deal with. Hmm. The average human makes 35,000 decisions per day on average, the adult. 35,000 daily, and then of that 35,000, 70 of them are, like, big. 70 decisions Louis and Brand Nerds and Larry, of the 35,000 decisions that I have to make in a- any given day, and the seven- 70 that are important, I don't wanna make a decision about a goddamn colorway on a shoe or a shirt. I just think that, that, that consumers, humans, are fatigued with decisions. This is why marketing is- Mm ... uh, is, is so critical now because it's about attention as share, not necessarily as a product or category share. And if I'm fighting to get through, as a consumer, to make a decision on something that I wanna make easier, I'm not gonna make it harder by going to your wonderful fashion brand, making these decisions about my turtleneck, and then waiting three weeks for it to show up. Ain't gonna happen. But I didn't know you then. I could not have advised you that. Louis Monoyudis: I think you're absolutely right. LT: All right. DC: Larry, uh, you wanna hit the next question, brother? LT: Yeah, that's a great one. One, just one quick comment. I did the Nike ID, and I did the opposite of D. Okay. I, I went and did the whole thing, and I, and it came back, and I'm like, "This isn't any different than what I could get at the shop." Ah, okay. Well, at least you were neutral. Y- y- you had both sides. Like, I didn't do anything. So anyway, very interesting. All right. So Louis, when it comes to technology and marketing, with your, with, with your great background, uh, especially in the D2C world, you've encountered lots of technology and, and marketing, the confluence of it. Can you enlighten us here, uh, where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech, or you can take us to areas you think they should be leery of or simply avoid. What say you? Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely. So of course, AI, it's the topic of every conference and- LT: Yep Louis Monoyudis: ... discussion we're part of. It is, in my opinion, incredibly powerful tool. You still need a hand to swing the hammer, and that is where people working in the field are most empowered. So let it take care of some of the grunt work, but don't let it start making final decisions for you. Mm. At least not yet. I don't think it's there. Um, the... I think the bigger question for those on the marketing side of a business is what does this mean for brand and brand assets? So especially when we start to think about- agentic shopping. And if people are going to live more within the realm of the LLM and spend less time in Google or even brand websites, what's the importance of a brand website? Now, I've heard some pundits say brand websites are dead, right? I think we heard this when Amazon started to really eat up a lot of market share as well. It didn't quite happen. My whole point is the brand website is always where you can tell your story, where you can- Right ... always create that connection. You can talk about your materials, your founder, your team, the impetus for starting the business. You can never tell that in an Amazon tile, and you can never really make sure that's all gonna be indexed effectively and shown to a consumer in an LLM, right? So I think this is where there's so much push and pull right now. AI's changing the world for better or for worse, we'll find out. You have to be ahead of the curve as much as any of us can, but I think we also have to think about where story and narrative still really have a role in the world. LT: Mm-hmm. Well, that's good. That's good. Uh, you know, I love your point,  Louis, which I think is really important for ... to restate what you said in that you- AI's a great tool, but you've got to be the leader of it. DC and I have talked about this a lot. You know, DC has said this, he said this when AI was just burgeoning, and he's always so smart and ahead of the curve. I can say this about him. He said the, the smartest people going forward are the people who are gonna be able to ask the best questions, not have all the answers, 'cause AI has a lot of the answers for us. So what you're also saying is you've gotta lead AI. You can't let AI lead you. I think that's what you're really saying. Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely DC: Louis, uh, I've got, um, uh, something I'd like you to do, uh, for the Brand Nerds really quickly. Can you explain what agentic AI is? 'Cause we wanna make sure they know. And then- Mm ... also break down the three, uh, three letters LLM. I just want them to make sure that they're tracking along, and then I've got a comment I wanna make Louis Monoyudis: Yes, so agentic shopping is you go into ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, your tool of choice and- LT: Which is your preference, by the way, Louis? Just curious Louis Monoyudis: Um, I'm a little torn. So I have invested so much over time in GPT, it is so trained on my personal voice, on the brand's voice- Totally get that. Yeah, yeah ... I think Claude is actually better, and so now I'm shifting a lot of my workflows into Claude. I've also been playing around with Claude Code, which is a real incredible moment- Yeah 'cause I do not have a coding background, to spin up things like landing pages and stuff like that. But yes, um, LT: so- Sorry to interrupt you, but eerily alike. I've the exact same path that you have. But keep going. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah. So agentic shopping is you're looking for whatever the product is, let's say a great men's running shoe that is going to give you ankle support and be great if you have plantar fasciitis. Just making that up. Yeah. Instead of typing all that into Google, you can use something like Whisperflow to dictate into your GPT or LL- you know, the LLM of choice, and then it'll pull up here's the five that are great. And then, um, depending on the permissions and the integrations, it can actually buy it for you. It can say, "Okay, you're a size eight in Nike. You're actually gonna be an eight and a half in this other running shoe. I can just go to the website and purchase it for you." So you never leave the interface of the AI. Um, so in that case, how helpful is it to have a whole team building out the website and the landing pages and the PDPs and that customer journey? To be determined, right? But- Right ... my point is, a lot of people still will be like, "I've never heard of this brand," or, "I'm a little unsure." Right. "I'm still gonna go and do my own research on top of it," which is what everybody should be doing, 'cause there still are hallucinations. LT: Totally agreed. DC: Uh, thank you, Louis. And LLM, um, is, uh, language learning machines. So, uh, all right. Here's my comment on this. Your point about, um, um, websites I think is an important one. Uh, I'm gonna take this to the people who decide what will be on a website and what will not be on a website, and that is those of us who do the marketing, the brand building. We decide whether a mar- whether a website will stay or go, and we decide what content will g- will be on that website or not. And largely, we have... We used to make these decisions purely based on what we would get from Google or Meta, okay? Data from them. Now, we have a different- Uh, well, an additional, uh, resource called the LLMs. So it's not a human coming to a website oftentimes searching around that Google will say, "This person came, and they went. They stayed this long here, and then they went there," and to track it. It's like, no, no, no. An LLM, not a human. Right. An LLM came to the website and did these things. So I'm, I'm now talking to the marketers here that are going to be making these decisions about the, uh, the websites. Do not allow AI to make the decision for you- Yep ... on what you do with these websites because the LLMs, um, do not have two items yet that you as a human have, and that is creative judgment and taste. They don't have that yet. They can give you options. Uh, they can give you the data on what happened with the transac- transaction. They can tell you, they can steer people towards a particular shoe. You used a running shoe, Louis. Because they are pulling data on shoes that were purchased. How many? What was said about this shoe, about the fit in social media? Did people like it or not? And that, that way they will guide, the LLM will guide us, the human, into deciding what shoe we want. And if we have agentic AI or agentic shopping, we can just give, with our permission. Highly, highly, uh, encourage you all brand nerds, if you are using agentic shopping, that you have a fail-safe that says as a prompt, "Before you buy, check with me." Okay? Otherwise, you can be buying a lot of stuff. Yeah. And agentic shopping will have a ball, and your credit card will be screaming. So I recommend that. But creative judgment and taste to decide what you will have on your website and whether you will have a website or not. That's my, uh, that's my response on the tech side of it. LT: That's great. All right, do you wanna, you want to, uh, DC: hit the n- last question?  Louis, very simple. What are you most proud of? Louis Monoyudis: When I look at the moments that are the most meaningful in my professional career, it's the moments of mentorship and building those relationships with others on my team. So over the years, I've had the opportunity to work with some incredibly talented folks, and after I've left, some of them have sent me really beautiful messages. I have them all saved. If I'm having a hard day, I'll go back and I'll read through them about the impact that they feel that I had on them and their career, and conversely, the impact that they've had on my career. So those are the moments that I think are most memorable to me. DC: Mm. LT: Ooh, that's good. Nice. Uh. Nice. Just quick, quick question,  Louis. Have you done anything consciously to mentor folks, or has it just sort of happened as catch-as-catch-can? Louis Monoyudis: My overall philosophy in life is that everyone just wants to feel seen and heard. So- Mm ... customers by a brand, team members by their boss, children by parents, et cetera. So if you give people a safe space to be seen and to be heard, and to hear what they have to say at face value, and to fundamentally go into conversations, especially in professional context, with the mindset that everybody wants to do a good job. Like, there's very few people that are trying to scam the system and get away with whatever they can. Most people want to invest their time and energy to learn and to grow. And if they're not able to do that, taking a step back and trying to understand why and how you can unlock that for them. LT: Ooh, that's deep. Can you say what you said at the very beginning one more time? Louis Monoyudis: That people just wanna feel seen and heard. That's, LT: that's really deep Love it. D, any follow-up? None from me. Louis Monoyudis: You feel, you feel seen and heard? DC: A- actually,  Louis, I, I do. Good. And, uh, and... Well, I wasn't gonna say anything, but I'm gonna say something now since, since  Louis has called me out. Uh, yes, and it happened for me early, uh,  Louis, and, and Larry knows this, with my mother. Louis Monoyudis: Mm. DC: And quite frankly, because I felt so seen and heard by my mother at such a young age, that became the reference and benchmark by which I, uh, evaluated, and in some cases, I'm not proud to say this, judged the degree to which I was seen and heard by my intimate partners. Louis Monoyudis: Mm. DC: So it was, my mom was here- Yeah and if I didn't feel seen and heard to the level that my mother saw and heard me, her name's Gloria Cobbin, rest in power, I often, uh, found myself vexed by the delta. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah. Absolutely. DC: Yeah. So yeah,  Louis, that, that means a lot to me, brother. A lot. Yeah. LT: That's awesome. DC: Yeah. LT: Ooh,  Louis, this is great, man. Uh, w- we are now flowing to the next segment, which is What's Poppin?. What's poppin', D? What's poppin'? So  Louis, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today we think is good fodder for discussion. We understand you have a good one for us. Louis Monoyudis: I've been thinking a lot about the, the state of the country and the state of consumers' beliefs, religious, political, et cetera. And I think what people are craving right now more than anything is a sense of community and a sense of belonging. And if we look at where people historically found these, it was in churches, in neighborhood communities, in school groups. And as those have become less populated gathering spaces for a majority of Americans, they're now looking for community and identity elsewhere. And how this relates to branding is we're always talking about- Our customers as our community. But what are we really doing to support that community? So I'll give you an example. When I was at the Japanese snack subscription box, Bokksu, we of course were selling to people that had an interest in or maybe had been to Japan. And this had started before I came on, but I was a huge fan of it. We had our own dedicated community billboard. So it was kinda like a Facebook group but not on Facebook, where it wasn't really moderated. If people had a bad experience with a brand, they could say that. It wasn't censored. But it was also people saying, "Hey, I'm going to Japan. Like, does anybody have a recommendation on a great place to get teppanyaki in Kyoto," right? And people would come in here and we would bring in, like, travel guides or we would do a Studio Ghibli activation or whatever it was just because it wasn't driving revenue for us, it was driving community. And that really gave people an affinity to work with us in a way that I think others... that other brands I've worked at don't, right? Like Calvin Klein, great brand. At least when I was there, they weren't doing a lot to build a Calvin Klein community, right? Mm-hmm. It was more of a one directional, "Here's our brand. You consume it. You enjoy it. You buy it." Right. What is it that we can do to give back? LT: Cool. This is a juicy one. We love this. So I wanna, I wanna lay, I wanna add, augment what you just said, 'cause couldn't agree more. And I, I would surmise, and for those brand nerds that aren't viewing this on YouTube, I'm holding up my phone, and what's happened with the Gen Zs of the world, um, is that this is... They're staring at their phone all day, and they think they have community from that, but it's a false sense, right? And, and so, uh, I would even take it a step further,  Louis. That is there a way that as a brand you can foster actual human connectivity that's outside anything that's, uh, uh, digital? Uh, because I think you're totally right. I think people are truly craving that, and I think a big part of that is because there is a sense of, you know, people see what people see on IG and TikTok and everything. And as we all know intellectually, that's ... A lot of it's bullshit because it's the best of their ... People are showing their best, what they think are their best sides, right? Right. And so if you're struggling in a- any way, it takes you down a bad rabbit hole. So if there's anything we can do as folks who are, are, uh, are on the brand side to authentically connect, uh, folks in a real genuine way that's in person, that's, I think, part of where we need to go in 2026 and beyond. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the challenges with- Being at a brand that is either like venture or private equity or even family office backed is you're looking to hit growth at such a scale- Right ... that every initiative is put through this idea of scalability. LT: Yep. Louis Monoyudis: In-person events are not inherently scalable, but let's say you get 20 of your best customers in 10 of your top cities together for a half day of programming. Maybe the CEO flies around and you do even a luncheon, in the fashion world a trunk show. Whatever it is, for those people, if you can turn them from people that are just excited about your brand to actual brand advocates- Oh, yeah ... and then they're telling 10, 20 of their people- Yeah ... there's a viral coefficient there that's a lot harder to measure- Yeah but is absolutely worth the investment. So I encourage anyone listening, don't poo-poo doing in-person events. Don't poo-poo- Right ... doing these local market activations. They take time and money, but they do have an ROI even if it's not something that is immediately visible in the spreadsheet. LT: Totally agree. Indeed, dare I say, uh, the, our previous guest and is, who's like family to us, is a gentleman by the name of Steven Green. And for those Brand Nerds who haven't listened to the s- show with Steven Green, who is the founder of Rockcorps, uh, Rockcorps, uh, is give, get, given. It's three words,  Louis. And, and so, uh, what happens with Rockcorps is they have brands who help support a situation where, uh, they get young people to volunteer four hours of time, and doing that, they then get to go see a, a, a headline concert somewhere- Mm-hmm locally to them. And so again, it's a, the, the cool thing is about you're bringing people together in, in so many ways, in the volunteer sense and then to the concert, too, and it's all about, again, fostering, uh, community in a real genuine way. And, and to your point, I think it's really hard to compute an ROI on that, right? Like, you just don't know where that goes, but what that can do in helping, uh, foster relationships with people is just really huge. Absolutely. DC: Yeah, um, community,  Louis and Larry, to me- gives, um, humans courage. And Louis, when you talked about the importance of, uh, everyone wants to be seen and belong, when you are seen by others and you feel as if you belong to a group of others, it gives one courage to tell others. It gives one courage to be seen by others as part of a community that they identify with. And, uh, unfortunately, it can be both for good and for bad. Hmm. That's the power of community and the courage that it gives us as humans. It's hard to be an individual out there on your own carrying some flag, whatever the flag, and being pelted. But when you g- when you look around, I like what you said earlier, Louis, to your left and to your right, and you see many more who are a part of your community, and, and a overused marketing word, dare I say tribe, you now are like, "Yeah, I can go out and do this thing. I can- Hmm ... enjoy myself in this way. I can create this kind of music. I can wear this kind of fashion. I can create this kind of code." You start to believe it because of the strength of the community and the courage that it gives you. So I think this point you're making about community is critical. LT: Totally agree DC: Yeah, critical LT: Great conversation- Yes ...  Louis. That was awesome that you brought that up. Um, yeah. Thank you. And, uh, I think it's time for the learnings. Uh, a- again,  Louis- Got it ... when we have conversations with folks like you, it feels like it's five minutes long and we're at the learnings and, um, and- DC: Damn, already. Wow I know. Wow. LT: Uh, this is, hope- hopefully this has been- Wow ... as fun for you as it has been for us. This has been a, a delight. Louis Monoyudis: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. LT: Yeah. So w- w- so here's the way this is gonna go down. I'm gonna, uh, provide my learnings, then DC will go, and then if you can provide anything that, uh, you wa- that you wanna highlight that you've learned from the conversation, w- and we'll, uh, we'd love to hear that. All right. So I've got, uh, so many learnings, but I'm gonna cull it to seven. All right, Brand Nerds. Mm-hmm. The best marketing, number one, the best marketing is rooted in narrative and storytelling. How are you infusing the marketing you are doing with optimal storytelling, Brand Nerds? Something to challenge yourself for. Number two, like  Louis did, what is your favorite brand and what can you do to get yourself working on that brand? It may seem like a pipe dream, but DC did it. I did it.  Louis did it. We've had other many, o- other folks on the show. How do y- how can you make that happen? Because it's a wonderful thing if you can. Number three, check, check yourself before you wreck yourself. Is your hubris getting in the way for what is the optimal decisions you need to make? D, were you gonna say something? DC: No, no, no. I, I was laughing, man. That's good. LT: Right? So that's the hubris one that  Louis called out, which is really great. Number four, always be thinking about your brand story and optimal ways and distribution points to do it in the best way possible, i.e., You need to still have your website and other things where you control the narrative all the way. Number five, we cannot say this enough. DC has said it numerous times, I'm gonna repeat it. Creative judgment and taste is the key area we as humans and marketers have over AI and anything else, and that is something you need to cultivate and figure out how you can continually grow in that mode. Number six, Brand Nerds, personally and professionally, how can you help others be seen and heard, as  Louis talked about, which is huge. And number seven, Brand Nerds, is there a way you can have your brand in the genuine epicenter for fostering community and belonging in person? Those are the seven of mine. Great stuff,  Louis. DC: Thank you, Larry. That was really good, brother. All right,  Louis, I don't know if you've listened to one of our podcasts or not. At this juncture, I make a valiant attempt to share from my perspective what is it that this being in front of us virtually is offering the 8.1 or 2 billion people on the planet that only they can give it to us in their unique way? We might get parts of it from other people, but what is it that this one guest, this one human, in my opinion, is providing as a gift to the rest of us? I often tell my daughters, I have three daughters, uh,  Louis, and I also now have a granddaughter, and I'll tell my granddaughter this as well. She's just a little more than, um, uh, 10 days old. I say to my- LT: Shout out, Stevie. DC: Shout out, Stevie. Louis Monoyudis: Yes. DC: I, I say to my daughters, "The gifts that you have been given are not for you. They, they may reside in you, but they're not for you. They're for everyone else." So that's what I'm gonna attempt to do now, uh,  Louis, so if you would indulge me for a moment. As Larry was going through your vast experience with all of the growth, I will say I was seduced by the performance, consistently knocking every one of these opportunities out of the park. But there was something else that jumped up out of the, the words, if you will, for me, and it was this. Yes,  Louis, you've done a lot in fashion, but it's the range within fashion that really caught my attention. Women's brands, okay? Now, I'm looking at, uh,  Louis in front of me, Brand Nerds, for you all who are not seeing him.  Louis is not a woman, okay? But he's done quite a bit of work on women's brands. Appliances, pets. Pets And then Japanese snacks, okay? This is one hell of a range. You know, you get people- It is ... they'll go into the automotive industry. They might go agency side or client side. They're pretty, they're pretty much staying in auto industry. You get CPG, they might do agency side or client side, but they're staying CPG. But this women's brand, appliances, pets, and Japanese snacks, woo, Louis, you, you got some range there. So then that had me go, "Hmm." LT: That shows how good he really is though, D. It really does. It does. Right? DC: Yeah. I, I'm think, "What does Louis have that transcends a category? What allows him to go into any category, in this case literally, and still be successful? What, what's the essence? What's the core?" And then that led me to Professor Deb Foster and her singular question. Now, uh, brand nerds, for many of you all who have gone to university, you know that there are some professors you think of, they're... This is your favorite professor, and there are some professors where everybody on campus knows, avoid that professor. Just avoid them. Right. And then you can have, uh, someone ask you a question, "Who was your favorite professor, university or grad school or post, post, uh, graduate work?" You can name the professor, but I dare say few of us can break down a favorite professor by one line or one question. Mm-hmm. And here, Louis remembered the one question from Dr. Professor, uh, Deb Foster, and the question was, "What's the difference between religion and mythology?" And her one-word answer to a bemused class was belief. Belief, that's the difference. That's the difference. And then that had me go to- Your early one and a half years at university where you were pre-med. This is the track you wanted to be on. You were going to be in the medical field. You loved physics. Your quote was, "Physics is the poetry of the universe." I love that. Really Louis Monoyudis: cool. Physics is the DC: poetry of the universe. Yet, you find yourself in marketing. So I thought, is there a way to take the construct of Professor Deb Foster and ask a question about two things, and then determine in one word what's the difference? So Professor Foster, religion and mythology, what's the difference? The one word, belief. I then thought, inspired by you, Louis, what's the difference between medicine and marketing? And the one word that I have is proof. In medicine, belief is not enough. You gotta have some proof. There needs to be some efficacy in medicine. But in marketing, you can have proof or maybe not. In marketing, you can use belief, and sometimes belief is more important than the proof. And this is where I think your, your, your worlds have intertwined for years Medicine and now marketing. And then you said something that just stopped me, Louis. You said, "Hey, ev- everyone wants to be seen. Everybody wants to belong." And I thought about a quote that you've probably heard, Louis, that I know Larry has heard 'cause we've mentioned it on this show, by the inimitable Maya Angelou. Rest in power. And the quote is, uh, "People may forget what you said, but they, they won't forget how you made 'em feel." LT: I love that quote. Yeah. DC: That is a, that is a quote for the ages. That is about belief, it's about belonging, and it's about community. And so I think the reason why you're able to transcend Japanese snacks, pets, appliances, women's brands, fashion, et cetera, is because you have the ability to drill down into making people feel seen through your marketing, making people feel like they belong through the marketing that you've done. So I think, in essence, I would refer to you, Louis, as the oracle of belief and belonging in brand and business Louis Monoyudis: I'll take it. I love that. Wait, it's me and my new LinkedIn headline. LT: That's ... I was gonna say- You, take that, take that to your speeches too, right? You know? That's right. Louis Monoyudis: Yeah. LT: Uh, this is- Louis Monoyudis: Current Oracle, former CMO. How about that? LT: That's ... There you go. Louis Monoyudis: I've graduated. LT: Ah, wow. That's great. Hey, it's all ... The only It's one word, it's belief. If you believe it, right? Louis Monoyudis: There you go. LT: Right. So Louis, any, uh, any closing thoughts for us about this great conversation we've had? Louis Monoyudis: First of all, thank you both for having me on. This has been so much fun and such an in-depth conversation. It's really been a dynamic opportunity to discuss not just my background, but to learn more about both of you. So it's been a fabulous way to spend, uh, I guess, about 90 minutes. I appreciate it. LT: Yes. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. That ... You were awesome. Uh, and that is the ... That it- We are at the end unfortunately, Brand Nerds. Uh, s- but thanks so much for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes. The executive producers of Brands, Beats and Bytes are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman, Jade Tate and Tom Dioro. DC: It's the Podfather. LT: That is he, and if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share it for those on Apple Podcast, if you're so inclined. We love those excellent reviews, and we hope you enjoyed this podcast, and we look forward to next time, where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.