Latest / Red Couch Theology / The Courage the Gospel Creates - bonus episode!

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The Courage the Gospel Creates - bonus episode! · Red Couch Theology

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Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Right
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Couch Theology Podcast. Hey, this week we actually have
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two episodes. This is our bonus episode
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because I get a chance to sit down with Sean Spitzer and with
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Diego, who brought our sermon on this last Sunday and talk a
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little bit about his journey of faith, about the sermon he gave
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to us on Sunday and so on and so forth.
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But one of the highlights in this episode is when Diego
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shares a little bit of the back story about his father and his
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relationship with his father, if you remember from his sermon
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illustration on Sunday. And it's a powerful story about
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how the gospel both gives us the bravery to do things we would
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not expect and has the power to transform relationships and
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lives. Let's dive right in.
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Well, hello, hello and welcome to the Red Couch Theology
0:52
podcast where we're live. Good.
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Afternoon. I think I think we're live.
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We're gonna trust you. So I'm here with Diego and with
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Sean for a little bonus episode. And here's why.
1:06
Here's here's what's going on with the bonus episode is we've
1:10
been sort of commandeered the podcast during the season for
1:13
Alpha more than for the sermons. And so we're also gonna have our
1:18
normal show tomorrow, but I didn't want to miss an
1:21
opportunity to chat with with Diego 'cause he, he preached on
1:24
Sunday and then I think you're flying out tomorrow, right?
1:26
Yes, tomorrow morning. Awesome.
1:28
Well, we, I'm so glad you were able to hop on with us and yeah,
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have a little bit of a conversation.
1:35
So let's just start briefly about can you guys just tell you
1:39
told some of the story a little bit on Sunday, but for those who
1:43
didn't weren't here Sunday, can you tell the story of how you
1:45
guys got to know each other, how your connection to South now and
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so on and so forth? I'll let you start.
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OK, I I will tell my story, OK. Tell your story and then you can
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correct him, no? Well, he will agree.
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Well, actually we have a similar experience between churches when
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Sean and I were like 1617. So there's a bunch of students
2:11
from a church here in Colorado who visit us in our church in
2:14
Costa Rica for kind of a similar program that we already making
2:19
here with the students of South. So in that time, Sean didn't
2:24
know how to speak any Spanish still.
2:27
Still down? And for me, yeah, for me it's
2:31
the same. I, I didn't know any English.
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So we were just kind of a meet together and we participate in
2:36
the program. And I think kind of for both
2:39
sides was kind of a something the challenges just to grow in
2:43
or working in the in the Christ and growing and maturing in our
2:48
faith. And since that time we kind of
2:50
continue back and forward a little bit.
2:52
I remember Sean, when you were almost getting married, you
2:57
write me and I don't even know probably was an e-mail because
3:00
social media wasn't kind of a thing.
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So we can have been doing this connecting through the years,
3:08
learning, also growing, and now also with our families also
3:12
growing together with the kids. So it's been a kind of a
3:14
interesting and A and a blessing experience for me to have this
3:18
friendship, which is a long distance in between us, but it's
3:22
still like we can just see each other and just catch where we
3:26
were last time. So it's kind of fun, yeah.
3:30
Just to fill in a couple of. I'm just going to fix the camera
3:32
while you guys talk because I broke it sounds.
3:35
Good. Should I keep talking?
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Keep going, OK to to fill in a couple of like other, you know,
3:40
components of that. So when we met in high school,
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their group was able to come here to Colorado in the same
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form and fashion that we brought the NEXO students up to live
3:55
alongside us, serve alongside us, and love our community
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alongside our students as well. And then Diego and I actually
4:02
had an opportunity to help run some of these trips coming out
4:08
of university. I did one.
4:10
Diego was involved in the ministry for a long time and I
4:14
actually got really sick. I was down there and had to stay
4:17
in Diego's apartment for for several days in order.
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To almost the entire trip. You were really sick.
4:24
Yeah. So he joined us by the end, just
4:26
for the final picture. I was there for.
4:29
More, he was sad. Yeah, picture, but but really
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through that we developed a closeness, a relationship, and
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we were going through different seasons of our lives together.
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So Diego mentioned kind of riding him and letting him know
4:45
that Melody and I were engaged and kind of being able to share
4:47
in that news. We got married at similar times
4:51
actually, Diego and when we were married prior to us and then we
4:55
began having children at similar times.
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Jackson falls right in between Diego's oldest 2 and then
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Shepard and Felipe are actually 14 days apart.
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I, I remember calling Diego to let him know that Melody was
5:09
pregnant with Shepherd and he was like, dude, you've got to be
5:12
kidding me. I was just about to reach out to
5:14
you and let you know that we were pregnant as well.
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So it's just been really cool that we've been able to go
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through these different seasons together, catch up and, you
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know, have conversations about what it means to be fathers,
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what it means to be husbands, etcetera.
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And Diego is actually probably the first person that I called
5:36
when I was considering joining the team here at South just to
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let him know, asked him to be praying for me and my family as
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we made these decisions. And then the day that I started
5:47
here, I called Diego and I said, hey, should we reboot Fusion and
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bring our students together? That's awesome.
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And I think he thought I was a little crazy in that moment for
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a whole host of different. Reasons.
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But it's just been this beautiful thing that we've been
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able to do together. That's awesome.
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So we will get to the sermon in just a little bit, but I was
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curious if you could just talk about what took place this last
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summer and then what took place a couple weeks ago with this
6:15
concept of fusion. Are you guys calling it Fusion
6:17
again or just is it sort of? I think for the sake of like
6:20
that was, it was funny. We actually showed up in Costa
6:22
Rica and they're like, hey, fusion.
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And we were like our students. He looked at each other, kind of
6:27
scratching their head, saying like, what are they saying and
6:29
why? But that was the name.
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Fusion was the name of the project when we were students.
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And so they had been calling that.
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And so now we've just really kind of adopted it because it
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truly is a fusion. But half of our communities
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living alongside each other. So yeah.
6:45
Yeah, I think the whole the whole thing, the main point of
6:47
this fusion is how we can put these two group of students and
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to challenge them in to understand who is Christ and how
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we can follow him and make disciples.
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It's two thing is that how we can make disciples or how we can
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be disciples and also how we can make disciples.
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So isn't is a program who put this group of people together in
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order to and intentional relationships that can come
7:13
closer and to figure it out that even we will live in different
7:17
countries with such a different cultures and a lot of
7:19
differences. We are following the same crisis
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and we are passionate about it. So we we try to put this idea to
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stay together, learn to grow together, grow together, but
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also challenge each other to make disciples.
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It's kind of our our final goal is just to see a multiplication
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among your students and also ours in Costa Rica.
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So it's kind of a the idea. So there's a lot of things
7:41
happening and actually kind of a Shawn and I sometimes we back
7:46
too much in our schedule, which is kind of our mistake, but we
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continue doing it. So last July, we have experience
7:54
of serving in a couple places in Costa Rica.
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We have through the nights training or equipment time
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through the same subject of how we can grow as a disciples and
8:06
also we challenge our students and we plan together like a big
8:10
outreach event. So we kind of been doing the
8:13
same thing that we we did in July.
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We just did it couple weeks here.
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So the idea is to keep that going back and forward, trying
8:22
to see some growing and trying to see some multiplication
8:24
happening through the whole process.
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Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's really kind of this
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tangible representation of the universal church that we've
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talked about. You know, Diego and community
8:36
dot Nexo and their students are growing as disciples, learning
8:39
what it means to live in his way with his heart, just like we are
8:42
here following Christ. And so the coming together of
8:46
our groups that fusion is really just how do we do that
8:50
collectively together. So we are building
8:52
relationships, doing discipleship training is as
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Diego mentioned, and then walking alongside each other in
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our respective communities, us down there, them up here as we
9:02
serve our community, as we love our community as well.
9:05
And then it all culminates kind of as through the discipleship
9:09
training of making disciples too.
9:11
So all culminating in this outreach event.
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So in Costa Rica, we had two days of it where this Nexus
9:18
students were inviting their friends to an amusement park and
9:22
then like a big BBQ pool party that we hosted where they just
9:26
got to talk about their lives with Jesus and encounter Jesus
9:29
in those ways. And hopefully be able to like
9:31
establish those relationships and a more meaningful way with
9:35
this kind of bolstering of the, the teams, you know, being
9:40
there. And then here we did
9:42
discipleship training. We worked on our school campuses
9:44
inviting people to this outreach event.
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And on a couple Fridays ago, we had over 75 ish people.
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It's hard to count when everyone's dancing their heads
9:55
off and you know, anywhere from like 20 ish first time students
10:00
on our campus where they could just feel welcomed and at home
10:05
and having conversations over dinner about like who the Nexo
10:09
team was, our students and their friends.
10:12
Being like, this is a place that is meaningful in my life.
10:15
And if you have questions about Jesus.
10:17
So it was kind of a sewing event in in a lot of ways, but yeah.
10:20
That's awesome. And then it was fun having one
10:23
of your students help lead worship the week prior.
10:26
And I was saying a little bit in Spanish.
10:28
And yeah, it was just a beautiful time to kind of see
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the two congregations support the students and this effort.
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And it's a it's just a beautiful example of what what God's
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global church is. I love that.
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So, yeah, yeah. Talk a little bit about your
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invitation to preach. So Alex asked you to preach
10:52
while you're here. And, you know, we were in the
10:55
middle of a John series. And so, like you, what you are
10:58
assigned a passage like this is your passage.
11:01
Good luck. How did how do you experience
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being assigned a text like that? And then maybe talk a little bit
11:08
about the passage. Yeah.
11:09
Well. I, it took me as a surprise
11:13
because you know, when you run a church, you are also wanted to
11:17
protect the teaching, you know, for every pastor is like who's
11:21
going to teach and what is he's going to teach and all that.
11:23
So it was a surprise for me that Alex wanted to open that
11:27
opportunity to me. So I take it with a lot, a lot
11:29
of honor. I mean, it seems to me like they
11:32
have that trust. So I really appreciate about
11:34
that. And then just figure it out.
11:35
The John Chapter 11 is just such a huge chapter with a lot of
11:42
theology in there, and also in a moment where Christ is facing
11:48
the most aggressive in the resistance from Jewish people,
11:54
especially the religious 1. So just, yeah, it was a lot of
11:59
challenge for me trying to communicate this idea that Jesus
12:01
is facing his way to Jerusalem where he's going to face that.
12:06
But. At the same.
12:07
Time having this momentum with Lazarus and so that the whole
12:11
thing, like the whole scene is huge.
12:13
So it was a big challenge for me to just.
12:16
Hear. Something morning and and your
12:18
your. Style of preaching.
12:19
You were describing it to me earlier last week.
12:21
You, you tend to maybe take slightly smaller chunks and then
12:25
work through line by line. So you were just given this
12:28
monster text with like theological implications and
12:32
tons of text and stuff. And so, yeah, how'd you, how'd
12:36
you go about approaching that and thinking through that?
12:39
Yeah, well. Actually in community and our
12:41
church, we already are doing a series on the book of Luke.
12:47
So we are going bears by verse. But as you say, we just take
12:51
like as much of like 10 verses. So we got like like little
12:57
pieces. It take us a little while to go
12:59
there. In a way, it's easier just to
13:02
tackle some of their subject. So, yeah, when when you have a
13:06
such a big chapter, you must need to make a choice on
13:12
whatever you wanted to point it out and try to connect the
13:17
narrative and through the points that you for sure know you can
13:21
conclude things and challenge the church.
13:24
So it, it was a lot of reading, understanding where you want to
13:28
highlight the things that is happening and then how it will
13:32
connect those things and putting in a, in a application that
13:35
makes sense. And I, I, I try my best.
13:39
You did great. And in a lot.
13:40
Of ways this chapter Chapter 11 lent itself to actually being
13:46
taught in this larger chunk just being the story of Lazarus like
13:50
kind of like having that be told from from beginning to end
13:58
because you're not like pausing in the midst of like this
14:01
crescendo of of the text and all of the implications that it had
14:05
outside of the actual story and the implications that it meant
14:09
for kind of foreshadowing and actually.
14:11
Just by the end of the chapter they just they change and to
14:16
explain how the religious people started to make a plot in order
14:20
to capture Jesus and all that. So that's the chunk that I
14:23
didn't go in which maybe. Maybe we can cover a little bit
14:26
of that today, but yeah, also. Because also connect with the
14:28
context that I was trying to explain about how this heating
14:32
momentums momentum is happening since the Chapter 7 that Jesus
14:36
was facing rejection and facing almost violence.
14:40
People wanted to stun them, stun him couple times before.
14:44
So in the end of Chapter 11, that thing shows again that that
14:48
is going to happen. And actually I'm pretty sure
14:51
that at some point someone also want to kill again Lazarus,
14:54
right? Yeah, the next that's.
14:56
In that's in Alex's text this coming week.
14:58
Yeah. So it's.
14:59
Interesting to see that tension happening, which is.
15:03
Crazy. I I I was joking with Alex about
15:05
that. We were talking about this
15:06
coming Sunday. I was like, don't they know that
15:09
Jesus could just raise him again?
15:11
Like like I. Mean if, if he's.
15:14
Supposed to be alive he's you know they already have an
15:17
example of they seemingly. Are missing something?
15:19
Exactly, it's a. Diego's point?
15:21
This guy was. Risen from the dead and you want
15:23
to try and kill him again? Yeah.
15:24
OK, so you made a statement that I'd like to spend a little bit
15:29
of time on and. And I don't remember exactly how
15:31
you worded it, but you put the climax of the narrative in a
15:35
different place than people expected.
15:38
Could you? I mean, I've got the chapter
15:40
here. I don't remember the exact
15:42
verse. 25 S. Is it 25, Martha?
15:48
Well starting in verse 24 when Martha answered, I know he will
15:52
rise again in the resurrection on the last day, Jesus said to
15:56
her, I am the resurrection and the life.
15:58
Yeah, I think. My my argument for that is that
16:03
the whole Gospel of John is about believing and believing
16:07
that he's the one. So Jesus has been performing all
16:12
performance, these miracles. Probably this is the biggest one
16:17
in a really heated moment. He has been doing disciples and
16:20
all that. So he keeps saying, like, you
16:23
must believe, you must believe that I am who I am and all that.
16:27
And the respond that Marthas has in that verse is about I know, I
16:32
believe. So it's kind of the two things,
16:34
the two most important things to figure it out in a book like
16:37
John is if you understand who he is in and then you respond in a
16:42
way, do you believe it's done? That's it.
16:45
Yeah. So what is interesting is then
16:47
the miracle happened. And sometimes, and it's like it
16:51
could be a challenge for today's activities in the church and all
16:57
that because sometimes we can put so much of the effort and to
17:00
see the spectacular things or the supernatural things or
17:04
supernatural things, but you lose the sense that what you
17:07
must believe in him rather than the things that you expect him
17:10
to do, if that makes sense. You know, I believe in him more
17:14
than the things that I desire him to do in my life.
17:17
It's kind of a yeah, if that nature.
17:20
Yeah. So it was interesting, it jumped
17:23
out to me because we are doing alpha right now.
17:27
And for those of us who are, those out there who are
17:29
listeners, know that we're going to be tracking that.
17:32
But in the week 1 of Alpha at my table, I shared some some of
17:38
stories about my own doubts about faith, some of the seasons
17:41
that I've doubted. And I also told them I have no
17:45
excuse to doubt because I grew up overseas where we saw
17:49
supernatural healing, supernatural experiences with
17:54
demons and all this stuff. And I should of all people
17:59
believe that the supernatural things are, are real and that
18:04
Christianity's real because of some of the things my parents
18:06
experienced and then I observed. And yet I still tend to run into
18:10
doubt sometimes. And so.
18:14
We should just kill Lazarus again.
18:16
Yeah. You know, like we were just kind
18:18
of like making a a little fun of the Pharisees who were like
18:22
saying those things. But then we have so many
18:24
different experiences in our own life where we experience God
18:28
moving, we encounter Jesus in these ways, but there's
18:31
something about our humanity and our expectations or the half
18:36
life of remembering, you know, God's movement in those ways
18:39
that we're just like, Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
18:42
Yeah, and I think I loved the the fact that you pointed out,
18:46
especially for for John, like this is definitely John's main
18:49
point is that the resurrection of Lazarus is miraculous.
18:58
Great, but it's meaningless unless it gets you to Jesus and
19:05
brings you to the heart of Jesus and to understand who he is.
19:12
And I don't know, I, I, it was just a moment in the message
19:14
that I felt like really resonated for me and I love
19:18
that. And I, I, I tend to agree with
19:20
because John is so consistent. You know, he's so consistent
19:24
that this is the main agenda. I want you all the miracles.
19:28
And he shows sign one sign 2 sign 3 sign 4 sign all the way
19:32
since the, the turning water into wine.
19:35
He's yes, it's evidence, but if it doesn't get you to Jesus,
19:39
man. The other thing is, is.
19:41
In verse 25, he says I am the resurrection.
19:45
So when you figure it out, the other I am, it's just like
19:49
natural things that you can kind of easily comprehends.
19:52
It's like I am the water, I am the bread and I'm this.
19:54
And then the resurrection is kind of a huge concept compared
19:59
to the I am at the shepherd, the shepherd, you know, So is this
20:03
the same thing? I am the resurrection and the
20:05
life is huge so. It seems unfair that you will
20:10
point it out more the resurrection than the whole
20:13
thing that he's trying to save. That is he's beyond that, he's
20:17
beyond life. He's life himself is the true.
20:20
So yeah, for me it's kind of a 25 is for sure the highlight in
20:25
that's segment. That's awesome.
20:28
Yeah. So maybe could you talk to me a
20:35
little bit about, you know, going back to the concept of the
20:41
global church. So here you've been asked to
20:45
preach in a different language to a congregation in a
20:49
completely different context. Can you maybe describe your your
20:56
sort of prayer dialogue and you're reading of the scriptures
21:00
and you're you're preparing A sermon for a context that's less
21:03
familiar in a language that's less familiar?
21:05
Like what was your prayer life preparing for this asking.
21:09
You talked about it in the intro a little bit.
21:11
I'm just praying that the Holy Spirit would move.
21:15
Can you maybe describe that journey you did with in your
21:17
relationship with Jesus specifically to get to a
21:20
message? Yeah, Well, that's a.
21:21
Good question. Well, when you have a passage
21:25
like that, you already have a lot of things in your mind,
21:28
which kind of is a tricky thing to have as a preacher because we
21:32
should just go to the text and use do our our thing without
21:37
putting our our own thoughts. Even when we have a lot of
21:40
things because we've been reading inside for a long time.
21:43
But the things, all that happened to me in Spanish, I
21:47
already have these theological concepts.
21:49
I already have these things that I've been, you know, underlining
21:53
a study for years and years and years.
21:54
So the big challenge is how to go to the text without my own
21:59
concepts, but also to the English text, you know what I'm
22:02
saying? So I try to pull myself into
22:04
reading the text and study the text from the English.
22:08
That was my first kind of approach because even our, our
22:12
versions of the of the Bible, which is interesting because in
22:15
our church we use nib too. So it was kind of an easy thing
22:19
to switch. So I do that.
22:22
I didn't study in in English, but again, when I was writing
22:26
down, I was writing in Spanish. So in a point that I told Sean
22:31
like, OK, I need to stop this because I'm being for almost 3
22:34
weeks going back and forward in my notes because I was writing
22:38
my notes in Spanish and then when I finish kind of a put in
22:42
the translator in translator and then having these another
22:45
English notes. Yeah.
22:47
Then then I said it again. Probably you experience this
22:50
when you have your sermon prepared.
22:51
It's like you go over again, just you keep refining and you
22:55
keep figured it out and put in words and put some others, you
22:59
know. Yeah, and I was doing this.
23:02
Zach, I got to. Stop it.
23:03
So you wrote. The sermon Twice.
23:04
Yeah, once in Spanish sermons. I can say I have like like
23:09
probably 3 versions of how I wanted to to to share this.
23:15
So it was kind of a tiring process actually to did, but I
23:18
enjoy it because in the end, this is for me, this is the key
23:22
is I know I am not qualified for what I did.
23:28
I'm from the start, I will say I'm not, I'm not the man to do
23:31
this, but I have the opportunity and I have the conviction.
23:35
Then if you faithfully teach the word, he will speak by the
23:41
Spirit. So my main prayer at the
23:44
beginning is hopefully the Spirit will do whatever he wants
23:47
to do. Besides my limitations to speak
23:52
English, right? Yeah.
23:53
So I have already that in my mind.
23:56
So I just put aside my fear in my questioning if I can able to
24:01
do that, because in the beginning his law, it was clear
24:04
that I'm not, but I just enjoyed the process.
24:08
I was quite nervous. I end up doing something that
24:12
I'm familiar with is going bears by bears and trying to see what
24:16
things are there that are obvious.
24:19
So and then I how I can connect it in order to invite people to
24:23
follow me into the verses and then going to the conclusions.
24:27
And the other things that I usually do is try not to come
24:31
out with too risky applications. You know, sometimes people
24:36
wanted to go and just stretch that much the verse that is
24:40
like, well, it's kind of a say that, but you added a little bit
24:44
more. So I just go plain into what I
24:46
think is easily to conclude that for me is Jesus invited us to
24:53
believe beyond the fear of death.
24:57
Yeah. The idea that he already called
24:59
us from death because we were all dead.
25:01
So it's kind of a more than a natural experience.
25:04
It's a spiritual thing. You've been already experienced.
25:07
And one of my point is, well, if you not if you're not sure about
25:11
this in your life, well, maybe today is the day that God is
25:15
calling you and whisper your name while you're listening
25:18
this. Yeah.
25:19
In the end, the whole idea that you must believe, you must trust
25:24
and you must hope in him and also in him, in his promises,
25:29
and also the resurrection in order to live beyond that.
25:34
And the final thing was just to be brave, to tell the story all,
25:39
all and over again. Who is near to us?
25:42
Because I I also connect that idea that Jesus was facing the
25:47
most and more growing tension against against him, but he kept
25:54
doing what he wants to do and also what the Father tell him to
25:57
do. Because one of the pastors says,
26:00
I know that you always listen to me.
26:03
Yeah, we didn't make sense that Jesus didn't do this just
26:06
because he has the idea, but also because he wanted to obey.
26:10
Was God the Father's idea? Yeah, probably Jesus.
26:14
I don't know. I'm just here going.
26:16
I'm going to make something like in the line, like probably Jesus
26:20
wanted to go before he did. You know what?
26:23
Yeah, just when Mark that and Mary first.
26:26
Made it. Yeah, maybe he.
26:28
Wanted to run, yeah. But probably.
26:31
He didn't because the father told him like I'm going to do
26:34
this. But no, now couple of days you
26:37
will go there and I will receive the glory when you you performs
26:42
this miracle, OK? So all right, there's the, the
26:46
message you gave on Sunday and I'd encourage you to go check it
26:51
out because it was powerful. I, I had, I ran into a couple
26:54
different congregation members and they knew I was gone because
26:57
I wasn't in the room. I listened online and they're
27:01
like, oh man, it was so great. And then I had a, a couple
27:04
people, the one in particular, I just walked past her and she
27:09
said, oh, did you have a good, you know, Sunday off?
27:12
Oh, I'm still really just rocked by that, that message.
27:16
It's just really was powerful for me and I.
27:19
I heard so many people too. You said you wanted the Holy
27:23
Spirit to just speak through you and and to be faithful in that.
27:26
And I've had no less than half a dozen or if not more people be
27:31
like, it was clear. I understood the Holy Spirit was
27:35
working through you like confirmation in that, which was
27:37
really beautiful. Yeah.
27:39
So. So the message you gave, and
27:42
yeah, if you haven't listened to it, check it out.
27:44
It's on, it's on on YouTube to check out.
27:47
But you just gave us another message in this episode and, and
27:54
here's what I'm hearing. And I'd like maybe you to offer
27:57
some pastoral thoughts to, to people out there with doubts
28:01
that they're qualified. You felt this doubt that I'm
28:06
gonna, I gotta preach in English.
28:08
I gotta do this gigantic text. I'm tired 'cause I'm trying to
28:13
lead students every night. I've I've probably very little
28:17
prep time, like layer upon layer of reasons why you couldn't be
28:24
sufficient in and of your own strength.
28:27
Maybe talk to the person out there listening who who's like,
28:30
Yep, that's me. I I I believe in Jesus, but I
28:34
could never participate in being in bringing his Kingdom because
28:38
I'm not qualified. Could you offer some thoughts
28:42
for those people I guess? My way of thinking.
28:46
Sometimes I just put a concept or an argue into the extreme.
28:52
OK, you know. So my, my, my thinking, my
28:56
thoughts in here is like, well, I'm, I'm able to face where
29:00
everything God's life will bring to my life without depending on
29:05
him. And for sure, that is
29:07
impossible, right. And one example of that is
29:10
actually facing that is something that no one else can
29:14
do. We all, you know, like we cannot
29:17
choose not to go to that. Yeah, that makes sense.
29:20
Yeah. So my my understanding of the
29:24
gospel is like actually gospel. What one of the things that does
29:28
is pointed out that all of us are not qualified.
29:32
Yeah, so. One powerful thing the gospel
29:36
does is like you're out. You cannot you cannot you cannot
29:39
is like make sure that everyone understand that is not is not
29:43
possible in our own way to present ourself in front of God.
29:49
You know what I'm saying. So the gospel actually what does
29:52
is pointed out everyone and says you cannot, but at the same time
29:58
the same gospel says this is the one who can.
30:02
So if you trust in that one that he can no matter your limitation
30:07
because it's in him and by him and for him.
30:11
So I think from the beginning is for me, it's easy to understand
30:15
the gospel is something that point it out and reject us in
30:20
that you know what I'm saying? So so yeah, for me is that idea
30:26
that once that you understand and you humbly understand that
30:30
yeah, I'm not able to be a front of God and be like a accepted
30:35
just for for my own deeds in my own.
30:38
How do you say like my own? Effort works or.
30:41
Whatever you are next to, accept Jesus and say, well he will
30:47
perform, He will do, He will introduce me to the Father
30:52
rather than trying to do my effort.
30:55
So. Actually, this is my simple way
30:58
to understand and explain kind of what the gospel does for us,
31:02
yeah. I mean, we're going to get there
31:03
in John. But to abide and abide in me.
31:06
Apart from me, you can do nothing, right?
31:09
Yeah. But you kind of shared some more
31:12
story with me as it related to your dad that I think kind of
31:16
intertwines with this kind of, you know, tell us a little bit
31:20
more about the moment where you began to actually pursue your
31:26
father in those two years and what was the lead up to that?
31:30
Because I think that that was a recognition where it was far
31:33
away from you yourself doing it, but the Holy Spirit in God kind
31:37
of working through you and and being a part of that process.
31:40
Yeah. Well, as I tell this story kind
31:43
of my father was he left our house when I was 1617 and he
31:48
left and then without leaving a trace, you know, like no phone
31:53
calls, no any economical support for a family.
31:56
He left totally. He was a struggle with drug
32:00
abuse in, like, many ways. So the only thing that I knew is
32:05
he was living with my grandmother, his mother.
32:09
Yeah. So during that time, kind of a
32:12
we disconnect from that. And my mom, my mother and my
32:16
siblings and I, we just make our life and try to make it work.
32:20
So it was grow growing in as a disciple.
32:23
I was serving in the music in, in my church and just learning
32:27
and, and actually when I, when I, when I was 19, I start to
32:31
have my first study with disciples.
32:34
So when I was 19, I already started to make disciples
32:38
one-on-one. And it's like in small meetings
32:40
and all that. And I think 1920, I felt like, I
32:44
get it. This is the gospel.
32:46
It's something that you leave, you understand, you share and
32:49
you accompany people walking through this.
32:51
And I was like, I love it. And I in when I was 19, I
32:56
already was considering just work full time in the ministry.
33:02
Yeah. So by the 20 I was connected
33:05
with some life, this organization who do these
33:08
mission trips and fusion trips and all that.
33:10
And I've been just being happy, you know, with my family doing
33:14
that and doing disciples, disciples and all that.
33:17
And in that moment came to me a conviction that it was kind of
33:21
weird. This conviction of this star is
33:24
how is possible that you are such a good Christian where you
33:28
don't want to forgive your father, which was a thing that
33:33
I've it was like whoa is that's my thought is someone else
33:37
thought is is this Holy Spirit challenge me and I remember for
33:41
a period of time. This currently comes to my mind
33:46
so I didn't wanted to do it. But in the end it feels like God
33:51
was challenged me to go and find my father and have some
33:56
conversation with him. Yeah, which was a fight, like a
33:59
struggle with me because it's like how in the world I am the
34:04
one that need to do that way, not him coming to me.
34:07
You know what I'm saying? The normal way to do it.
34:11
So I decide that I should give it a chance to the hospital.
34:16
So I figured it out and and called my father and tried to
34:20
tell him, well, I'm going to San Jose town every I don't remember
34:25
every Friday or Thursday night. What if we can have a dinner,
34:28
you can talk? Do I just to make an appointment
34:32
with him because I was traveling to my university in that time.
34:37
So he said yes, but for three, for three moments, for three
34:43
chances in a row, he didn't show up.
34:45
I was there. Wow.
34:47
I was, I, I talked to booth and I drive the booth for 35
34:51
minutes, 40 minutes to San Jose. I wait in the Central Park where
34:55
we have a photo infusion with your students, and I wait.
34:59
And I was mad more than anything, and angry because it's
35:04
like, OK, I'm doing it. I'm doing it.
35:08
This is not. My idea, I'm wasting.
35:10
I felt, I felt like I wasting my time and my energy and I, I also
35:14
felt like it was an act of humiliation for me.
35:18
Humiliating. It was humiliating.
35:20
Yeah, humiliating. For me, yeah.
35:22
And I was. So I wait for 20 half hour.
35:25
For some dumb reason, I wait probably more than an hour and
35:29
just turn back, put myself in a in a in a bus back to my home.
35:34
And when I was driving back my home, I was crying.
35:39
But it was pure anger. I was not suffering like poor me
35:43
or anything like just anger because I thought like this is
35:46
not a good idea. I don't like it doesn't make any
35:49
sense. And obviously my father doesn't
35:51
have any interest in this. But I did it.
35:54
I did it like couple times and by the third or four he'd show
35:57
up. And the first time that he show
36:00
up actually, I told Sean like he was kind of a high.
36:04
Yeah, it kind of a mess up. It was really rough for me,
36:08
wasn't fully. Present.
36:09
Yeah, yeah. It was rough for me to see my
36:12
father because my father used to be, he was taller than I.
36:16
He was kind of a well dressed guy.
36:18
And you know, so when I look him like that, it feels like off he
36:23
was. He was rough.
36:26
So we started to do this and by the four or five time I can I
36:30
can't remember. He told me like what you wanted.
36:33
Why do you want to talk to me and have this dinner doesn't
36:35
make any sense. He want he was trying to
36:37
struggle with the idea, which I was doing it also like, well,
36:40
actually I'm not sure. So what I told him is like,
36:44
well, I wanted to be with you. And the only thing that I wanted
36:48
to make sure you understand is that I forgive you for
36:51
everything you had done for, with for me and my family and
36:56
that I will continue forgive you for whatever things happen from
37:00
here. And you know, and he wasn't
37:04
chucked when he hear like that. Yeah, doesn't make any sense.
37:07
You don't you, you know, I don't have money.
37:10
I don't have anything. So you should not be expecting
37:13
me to, to do that. And he he said this and I I
37:18
don't allow you to forgive me. I what's the word you say?
37:23
Like I forbid it. I forbid it to forgive me and he
37:28
was mad because all obviously our original our relationship at
37:32
that time was more like 2 men stuck in right in the father and
37:36
son, you know, yeah, so I also get mad and I say, well, I don't
37:40
I don't care. Whatever you want to think about
37:42
this, I ready forgive you and I love you and I'm doing this
37:47
because I understand that's exactly what Jesus did for me.
37:51
So this is it to deal with that. And in that point, he just kind
37:54
of wasn't Chuck And then he I think he releases like he he
38:02
just start crying and we have this moment of of realizing that
38:09
we both were experienced the love of God in a way we we
38:13
couldn't kind of explain. And and it was probably the IT
38:17
is for sure in my ministry, the biggest thing that got had had
38:24
gave me the opportunity to experience with someone else.
38:26
Wow. And then?
38:28
You you shared kind of at the conclusion of our time together
38:31
that for two years on every other Friday, you got to study
38:36
with him and he came to know the Lord.
38:38
But I wonder if in that park, in that moment, there was the
38:42
whisper of Jesus with him just being like in the same way to
38:46
Lazarus, like in a loud voice, like come out.
38:49
You know, if that was like for each of us, we have that moment,
38:53
you know, where it's like, and then take off, take off the
38:56
grave clothes, you know, they're free.
38:59
Because actually, when you forgive someone, what you're
39:02
doing is just releasing happy people.
39:05
Yeah, person from from being captured.
39:07
Yeah. So, yeah, that was an amazing
39:10
experience. And The thing is that because we
39:14
experienced that I saw him getting better and better and
39:19
better for the for those two years.
39:21
Yeah, we studied the Bible. He accept Christ and his heart.
39:26
And actually he reconnect a little bit with my sister and
39:29
also with my brother and even my mother.
39:32
And he start to visiting. So he already knew where we were
39:37
and he had my phone and kind of the things going well, he go
39:42
back to the job because when I first met him, he was out of
39:46
without job without anything. But I see the transformation in
39:50
his life, like he's getting back to his normal clothes and being
39:54
sober for a long period of time and just wrestling with the word
39:58
of God and just that. And in that, like this crescendo
40:02
thing that was experienced, he passed away because of a heart
40:06
attack in his office. Yeah, and work.
40:10
Wow. So in that moment also feels
40:11
like. OK, Yeah.
40:14
What is that? It's a weird plan, you know?
40:17
It's like I'm enjoying my father and I'm enjoying my relationship
40:20
with him. But at the same time, I figured
40:23
it out. Facing death, facing the death
40:27
of my father, the thing that sustained me, the thing that
40:30
called me was the conviction that he already figured it out,
40:35
his final destiny. And I was part of just seeing
40:39
that I was witness of that. And for me, that gave me the
40:44
piece that I needed just to go to these terrible moments of,
40:48
you know, dwelling, dwelling or just.
40:52
Yeah, yeah. Just going through this process
40:56
of someone, someone you love me grieving.
40:58
Yeah, yeah. So, so some of what I I hear
41:02
just sort of as we come to a, a conclusion.
41:04
Oh, by the way, we didn't get any direct questions for your
41:06
sermon this week, but but. It was clear, it was clear, it
41:12
was awesome. So when you encountered last
41:17
week an invitation to preach in a, a different language and to
41:23
prepare a message and do all this back and forth and like try
41:26
and communicate to a different context.
41:29
The gospel applies to that moment and the gospel applies to
41:32
that moment. Because you know, when I signed
41:35
up for this whole faith thing with Jesus, it started from a
41:40
place where I couldn't and he could.
41:43
So why is it any different when it comes to a sermon on a Sunday
41:46
morning or an invitation to drive across town and meet my
41:51
father or whatever it may be? However hard it sounds, I never
41:57
was doing the thing anyway. It was always Jesus.
42:01
And so maybe for some of you out there, as you're as you're
42:04
listening and you're and you might have a little bit of a
42:07
nudge or a conviction to talk to someone, to forgive someone, to
42:12
embrace Christ, whatever it may be, the same, the same
42:18
conditions are, are in place. The gospel says you can't.
42:24
So whatever it is, no matter how hard it sounds, you already
42:29
started from a place where he will do the heavy lifting.
42:32
He will do the work and he might restore something miraculously
42:35
that you never expected. Like we just heard.
42:37
Yeah. Yeah.
42:39
Any final words for our listeners today?
42:42
No. Just don't fear the gospel.
42:47
Just leave the gospel as simplest as you can.
42:50
And also don't fear, don't fear the ability and the the
42:56
opportunity that is for us to share.
42:58
Like sometimes we, we miss the point that the Father is giving
43:04
us this such a privilege to share the gospel and we are not
43:07
doing it. We're we're showing Adventist
43:09
church and we're celebrating kind of having fun between us,
43:13
but we are losing the opportunity to tell the gospel
43:17
and the gospel is really simple thing where Jesus call us from
43:22
where we at in that dark, cold grave and call us out.
43:28
And if fear, if he, if he already called us, we should be
43:33
living by him and for him without any fear of rejection
43:37
because in the end, people will reject us, you know, in the work
43:41
or, or in the politics field or, or school or high school is
43:45
like, people will reject this. It's going to happen.
43:47
And it's going to happen even more because you're a Christian.
43:49
So don't fear those, no matter what they say, what they do,
43:53
just go ahead and just be faithful to the gospel.
43:56
In a way, do you live in it? And also in a way, do you share
43:59
in that gospel? Yeah.
44:01
And I think one final thing that we shared with our students over
44:05
the midst of the Fusion week was, you know, we can see we can
44:09
trust in and have faith and abide in Jesus and have him as
44:13
our model. These are some of the key
44:15
concept of our discipleship training.
44:17
And then we can see in moments the the fruit or impact of some
44:22
of those things are having the courage to rely on the Holy
44:24
Spirit to have discussions with our friends or to go on to
44:27
Littleton High School or Heritage High School's campus
44:31
and, you know, engage with those students and say the name of
44:34
South Fellowship or community dot Nexo or or Christ or
44:38
whatever it might be. We might be able to see some of
44:40
those things. But there's also the element of
44:43
like the unseen, the way that God will continue to work, the
44:47
way that those seeds can be planted and then grow
44:51
unbeknownst to us. And I think that that's really
44:54
beautiful, but also something that we should be reminded of.
44:56
Because when we're talking about being faithful and abiding in
45:00
Christ and, and not having fear, or maybe it won't work out,
45:04
Maybe it won't work out in front of us.
45:06
You know, maybe that invitation to a Co worker or a friend or a
45:10
family member is met with a no in the moment.
45:15
And maybe they, you know, continue to wrestle with the
45:18
spirit and they walk onto a church campus somewhere down the
45:23
road or years away from that moment.
45:27
We don't get to know all of those things.
45:29
And and that's, that's quite all right.
45:32
But, you know, I, I think that we're kind of like reminded of
45:35
that in this season of just like, oh, 16 or 25 years ago
45:38
when we were 16, we had no clue that like we would be on this
45:41
podcast together. Yeah.
45:42
But God did. And, and those seeds, you know,
45:44
continue to grow and bear fruit in those ways.
45:46
And so talking to, you know, our high school students and their
45:50
friends just about the relationship that they have with
45:52
Jesus and allowing spaces and environments for them to
45:55
encounter Jesus in that way, Yeah, we don't know what.
45:59
That's going to look like you. Know in the the end yeah yeah
46:03
and I I would love you can share.
46:06
The message that Gray being shared in social media, you
46:09
already have it. Yeah, yeah.
46:10
Because one of the kids from a student, our student ministry
46:12
shared something in social media.
46:15
He was a a new believer in the group and he have a challenge to
46:20
connect socially with others and all that.
46:22
When he had back from this trip, he shares something social media
46:26
that for sure for him he he might require a lot of bravery
46:31
to do it. So I wanted John translated.
46:33
So you just to see like a little glimpse of what is happening.
46:36
Also, when we share and we push our students and to experience
46:40
gospel in a simple way, but also in a way that we can just
46:44
continue to work with them because the growth comes in our
46:48
own. Lives as well and we also
46:49
hopefully some of the students. Here I'm I'm also experiencing
46:53
that challenge in their life yeah, yeah.
46:55
So he shared this upon. Returning right right after they
47:00
got back. And he said after almost two
47:02
years, the promise of a trip to the United States was finally
47:05
fulfilled. It was a very beautiful and fun
47:07
experience helping people and teaching Spanish classes helped
47:11
me to socialize and also taught me the importance of helping
47:14
others. Seeing people thank us for
47:16
giving them the bare minimum that they deserve made me
47:19
realize how much I want to help people.
47:21
I'm very grateful to Sean for giving us the opportunity to
47:24
have this trip and for allowing us to help people so they could
47:27
have something to eat. Thankful to South and thankful
47:30
for our food bank is what he's referring to there.
47:33
I'm also grateful to Community dot Nexo for supporting me and
47:36
everything and giving us the opportunity to meet the people
47:39
from South Fellowship. After a week, the trip came to
47:42
an end. I made new friendships and
47:44
learned many things, but the most important one was that I
47:47
was able to grow closer to God and realize how important it is
47:50
to make the right decisions and how they will affect my future.
47:53
The decision to accompany the friend that originally invited
47:58
him to Nexo, one of my best friends was on a youth group
48:02
trip turned out to be the one of the best decisions I could have
48:04
ever made. Not only because of the trip,
48:06
but because of the incredible people I met.
48:08
And all that's left for me is is to thank God and to wait for
48:12
time to pass so I can see the people from South again.
48:15
That's awesome. Yeah, well, there you have it,
48:18
some beautiful stories of the gospel and how it works in God's
48:22
church around the world. And on that note, we'll let you
48:26
guys go. I'm so glad we were able to to
48:28
to film and record this bonus episode for the podcast.
48:31
I hope it actually aligns so well.
48:33
Like tonight we have Alpha and we're talking about Jesus.
48:39
It aligns so well. So yeah, I'd encourage you to
48:41
tune in again tomorrow. We will have that episode about
48:44
the person of Jesus then. And yeah, in case you didn't
48:49
know, Jesus important to self Fellowship Church.
48:52
So yeah, alright, thank you all for tuning in.
48:55
Thanks. Catch you later.
48:56
Bye. See you.
48:56
Bye.