Latest / Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast / 9/11 & My Life As A Combat Sniper | Barry Nisbett

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9/11 & My Life As A Combat Sniper | Barry Nisbett · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello friends, I'm your host, Chris Throuw. I'm a former
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ruleries commando. I've adventured for better and sometimes worse, across
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: eighty countries on all seven continents.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Port the T Shirt Podcast.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Barry, how are you, brother?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Good? Chris? How are you?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm absolutely firing mate. Thank you very much. Yes,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: massive congratulations on your achievement, because I think you'll probably agree.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Writing a book it's harder than anything we did in
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the military, much.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Harder than anything I thought, that's for certain.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's a whole new skill set and it's one that,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: for the most part, you have to learn yourself, isn't it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: You haven't got, you know, an elite instructor there holding
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: your hand along the way. So yes. What's the feedback
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: been like so far?
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: So far? The book, the book, the paperback has been
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: out for about a month now, and and the feedback
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: has been excellent, Lots of lots of good reviews. People
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: have really enjoyed the just the the honest kind of
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: raw emotional stories that are in there. And the book
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: is it's not written by any ghostwriters. It's it's written
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: by myself and Cord Cullen with Mere baub Agnier, who
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: who was sort of the the lead in the project.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just a really honest account and it
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: really puts people into the into the boots of a sniper,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: you know, you feel the elbows and knees digging into
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: the ground. And yeah. So, I mean, so far, the
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: the feedback has been been excellent.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Good, good, good. So let me just say welcome friends
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: at home. As you know, we're we don't glorify war
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: on this channel. We just want to enlighten people really
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: as to what's it about what's going on in the world.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And I think we do that by listening to people's stories.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And if I can ask you off the bat to
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: like and subscribe friends or check that you're subscribed. We
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: get a lot of people unsubscribed from our channel because
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the truth isn't always popular. Can you say so,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Barry coming back to you and massive thanks for coming
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: on the show. Start from childhood chall we was was
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: there anything in your childhood that inspired you to join
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the forces or did you did you have a chal
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: like me, have a challenge in childhood?
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I would say there, you know, there is nothing in
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: in my family or or my extended family that was
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: was military. So definitely that was not a direction I
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: thought I was going to go into. Never anything I
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: was interested in. I mean my childhood. You know, I
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: had a sister, mom and dad who eventually got divorced
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: like many others, but you know, I had had two
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: loving parents all the way through who were very supportive
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: of me. Whatever direction I was going to go, which
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: was at question from time to time.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've seen quite a lot military wise, have
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: you not? You could you tell us the courses you've done.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: So, you know, my military career in a nutshell. I
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: enlisted in nineteen ninety seven, so Canada, we do basic
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: training has all arms, and then I moved into infantry training.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: That was my mc or, that was my specialty. So
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that was a form on what we call battle school,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: where you're learning all your basic infantry tactics, you know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: section attacks, platoon attacks, a lot of weapons training, a
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: little bit of unarmed combat, and a lot of rucksack marching,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: which you and I both I'm sure love. From there,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I was posted to CFB Pedalwala in Ontario and to
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: the first Battalion Royal Canadian Regiment and you know, it's
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: just it's a progression from there as far as I think.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: My first course was a communications course, and then I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: was very lucky to go on basic parachutis course after that,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: reconnaissance patrolman, mortarman, machine gunner, lab gunner, lab crew commander,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: some basic mounta knops. In two thousand and three, I
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: was selected to go to US Army Rangers School from
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: my battalion, which was a a pretty big opportunity for me.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: So I did that as a corporal, which they at
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the time they told me I was the first corporal
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: in the Canadian forces to be selected to go down
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: on the course. It's a bit a bit of added
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: pressure to make sure that I succeeded. So, I mean
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that was a that was sixty three days and thirty
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: seven pounds I lost on that course, and it's a
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: it's a leadership course for the US A bit of
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a bit of a gut check, just no sleep, no food,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: small unit tactics, but a great, a great training opportunity.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And then that sort of focused me. You know, I
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: had I had a couple of goals and one was
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: once I learned what we had in the military was
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be become a sniper. So I did
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: my basic sniper course in two thousand and five. And
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I hate calling it basic because it's anything. But it
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: was about ten weeks and we're doing you know, everything
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: from judging, distance, observation exercises, cam in concealment, stalking, which
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the course was very heavily weighted on when I went
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: through it. And then we're firing multiple ranges, conventional ranges,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: field firing ranges, and that sort of culminates into a
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: final exercise where we're four or five days doing extended
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: sniper operations. So my course we had a free course
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: of twenty four. The actual course started with eighteen and
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: then we graduated with three. So quite the attrition rate
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: on the course.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Did they make it out from the beginning that they're
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: gonna wittle you down and get rid of the chaff?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Or was that just how it was back then?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: That was just how it was. It was the especially
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: the stalking phase was it was so difficult and the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: way that it was structured. You needed to get you
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: needed to pass a certain amount of stocks, and you
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: could also accumulate points, and it was just it was
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: just difficult. It was just difficult. And I think that's one,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: definitely one portion of the Canadian sniper corse that that's
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: that's a part from you know, many other ones. Is
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: is the focus that they put on stocking.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, So could you explain stalking for our friends at
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: home that might not have been been in the mob?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, And I mean there's a there's a chapter
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: that I did write in the book on stalking and
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: what the stock is is we usually the day before
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the stock, we're going to be giving a six figure
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: grid of an enemy OPI an enemy observation post. So
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: in that observation post, there's going to be two qualified snipers.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: They're going to be seated, they're going to have binoculars.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: We're given the kind of the coordinates of I guess
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: you could say a long rectangular box which we need
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: to stay within. Now, we'll start anywhere from one thousand
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: meters to fifteen hundred meters from the observation post, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: the ground from start to the OP is going to
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: change generally change significantly in the amount of cover, be
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: it from foliage or just you know, the folds and
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: you know, a little little little hills and runs and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: within the ground, and our objective is simple. It's too
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: we need to be within three hundred meters of the op,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: but no closer than one hundred and fifty meters. So
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: essentially we have to get into the box. And we're
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: doing that in every i'll say type of movement I've
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: ever been taught in the military, from standing to crouching,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: to crawling to having as much of my body pressed
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: into the ground as I can using my fingertips and
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: my toes to take inches of the ground at the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: time at a time. And we're doing this all while
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: we're wearing a gilly suit, which you know, came from
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: the from the Scottish Highlands, a little nod to where
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I was. I was actually born in Scotland, so maybe
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: it's a bit in my blood. So you're wearing a
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: gilly suit that can be quite heavy hot, and then
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: we're also carrying at that time, we're caring a C
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: three A one rifle, which is a three O eight
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: or seven six two with a fixed ten power nerdle.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: We're carrying binoculars, map compass because we need to keep
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: our self orientated the whole time, and that's a big
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: challenge too, you know, standing and shooting. The compass varying
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: as you know, and walking isn't all that difficult. But
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: now do that when you're faced in the dirt, you're sweating,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: you're hot, you've got bug bug paint or you've got
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: bug spray and camp paint dripping into your eyes and
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: people are looking for you. The physical, it's a very
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: physical event, and we have two hours and fifty minutes
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: in which to get into the box and then declare
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: sniper ready to fire. But the mental that just the
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: mental toll that that time has, that that two hours
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and fifty minute has on you is is something that
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: even in some combat situations, I don't know if it's equaled.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, so are you Barry, are you doing this with
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: your spot or is this a solo exercise?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: That is a one percent stole all exercise. So they're
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: may depending on the size of the course or at
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the beginning stages, there's if there's eighteen of us on
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: the course, then there's eighteen. There's eighteen guys going. You know,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: from the moment they tell you you are now under
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: observation until you either get caught or you get or
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: you're successful. And each of the two in the OP,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the two chairs, the two guys in the chair, they're
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: each controlling a walker. So a walker is another an instructor,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: a qualified sniper. And you ask, you know, any Canadian
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: sniper who's been through the course, and there's going to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: be a word that probably makes their heart stop, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that's freeze. So if if the OP observes something, they
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: yell out freeze, and the walker's yell out freeze. So
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: wherever you are, you have to freeze, statue like and
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you're just waiting, they could be walking on you, and
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: then the chair or the OP is going to direc
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: to the walker onto you an attempt to touch you
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: or a piece of your gear, and that walker is
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: only going to do exactly what the chair is telling him.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean that word freeze has a special
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: meaning to me certainly. Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: So I bet are you firing your weapon dry to
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: prevent smoke?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: If so, we would do a mix of live fire.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Some of the stocks would would culminate with a live fire,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: at which time the OP or the chairs would be
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: replaced by two gongs, two steal gongs, kill zone gongs,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: and then we would need to engage the target. If
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: we missed, we had five seconds to cycle another round
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: and fire again. If we were doing it a stock
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: where we were firing blanks, then absolutely that that barrel
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: was going to be dry, because we did not want
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: to give out to give away our position with smoke,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: which is always you know, a weapons signature is always
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: a concern.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, were you marked as equally on your extraction or
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: was it like you've got your shot off, they don't
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: really care about you.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Now, I would say the focus was on the insertion
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: up to the point of getting into that what we
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: call our FFP or our final fire position, and then
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: we were required to then usually stock out backwards one
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: hundred meters one hundred to two hundred meters depending but
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: generally if you've got if you got in undetected and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: you're able to follow your line back out. It was
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: pretty rare that somebody would get caught.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: On the on the X film, And I mean, it's
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: kind of a dream for people that like the technical
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: aspect of shooting and weaponry to to get that up
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: close and personal with the ballistics and the the the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: weather and I was trying to think of the technical
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: word for weather then, but you know, the heat and
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: the and uh and the the makeup of the cartridges
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and all of this kind of stuff. Was did you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: really get into that or was that just like I've
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: just got to learn this stuff. I just want to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: pass the course.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I mean I got into it enough. I got into it,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I would say a little bit beyond what we were taught.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: There was some guys that were really really got into
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the ballistic aspect of it, really studied it a lot,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a lot more than we were taught on the course.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So generally within our sniper group, we always had one
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: or two one or two guys who who really dug
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: into the ballistics and would would share that with the
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: of US. I was not one of those guys.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Though, Yeah, sure, I'm just thinking back, because when I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: was in commando training, we had the five point five
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: six and as you know, you have to in the wind,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you sometimes were aiming off five or six feet whatever
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: that you know, two maybe three meters kind of a
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: guessing game. And then I was fortunate to be issued
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a seven point six two when I was on ship
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: as a ship's marine that was the SLR and at
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: three hundred meters on the range, it was a different weapon. Entirely.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: It was so even with iron sights, and the five
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: point five six had the you know, the optic, but
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: even with iron sights, it was bang bang on every shot.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: And I really just I liked the insight barry that
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I got from being able to compare the two. You know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I could, I could just gave you such such a
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: better idea of ballistics. And you know, meteorology was the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: word I was looking for, and you know all the makeup.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: So did you you know, could you get to go
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: and practice at will if you have a spare weekend?
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Was there a range they say, yay, you and your
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: spotor can take yourself off there and have a practice
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: or was it was everything under certain conditions.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: No, as far as the course, everything was under Everything
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: was the same every so there was no extra work.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: As far as as range time. We would do some
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: dry firing just to work on you know, your markets
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: marksmanship principles and you know, the whole of the weapon
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: and your shot release and in those types of things.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: But as far as the range time, no, it was
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: it was very it was very guarded. We got the
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: time we got and you you we had you know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: performance checks as we went through starting on a conventional
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: range where we're shooting with the C three A one.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: We're shooting from one to eight hundred meters, So that
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: was our first would be our first you know, we're
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: checking the box. Was to pass the conventional range, you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: grouping sizes, moving targets. That was the first big check
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: as far as shooting.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you know at this point, I'm thinking when
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you joined this kind of ten years after me, So
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: you were what four years before Afghanistan, five years before Iraq?
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Were you training? Were you on your sniper course with
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: a view to going into that theater or was it
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: just a course you wanted to do.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: It was a course that I wanted to do. The
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: timing of it, we knew if we passed that course,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: we were going to go into the sniper platoon and
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: are unit was gearing up for Afghanistans. So I think
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: it was added motivation if we passed and we did well,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: we were going to get to We're going to get
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to deploy as snipers.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you know that, go on.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I was going to say at that point too, I
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: had I had already done a tour to Postable in
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine. I had been to Bosnia in two
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: thousand and three, both peacekeeping missions, and I did a
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: tour to Kabul, Afghanistan in two thousand and five. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: was in various you know, still obviously in the same
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: unit in the infantry battalion, but doing I was not
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: doing sniper jobs and they, nor were any of those
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: three operator Were those three tours combat tours?
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I should have said the Royal Canadian Regimen. I mean,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: it sounds quite esteemed. I'm guessing it's a bit like
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: our guards or something along these lines, is it.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: We have three i'll say primary infantry units within Canada,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: so we have the Royal Canadian Regiment, we have the
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Princess Patricia's Canadian Laid Infantry, and then we have the
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Royal twenty second Regiment. So we have those three regiments
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: of infantry.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah did you did you say that you were you
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: got to choose or you were you were told which
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: one you were going to?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Uh No, we just signed up and they told us
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: where we were going.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, Barry, was it times in your sniper
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: training then that were you thinking one day this is
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: going to be for real and I'm going to be
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: behind the trigger and taking human life.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I think that was always in your mind. That was
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: always in my mind because everything we did, everything we
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: trained to do, was was for the kill. You know,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: re target we shot was the shape of a person
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: was ahead. So it's just it's ingrained into you. This is,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: you know, this is what you are learning to do.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: When we shoot a gong, it's called a kill zone gong,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: so it's you know, a rectangle with a smaller head,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: and that's what we're shooting at, and that it's a
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: kill zone. It's with the bullet balls within that area
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: on a human, it will kill them. So every shot
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: is you know, to make that kill shot.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, got you got you? Would you say? It's interesting.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: When I joined up, I did it for the opportunity.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I couldn't see anything in my future, Barry.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't feel particularly good at anything. I certainly wasn't
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: scholarly back then. And when someone bet me I couldn't
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: join the Marines, I was like, yeah, I can. And
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: when I read the recruitment broches, I thought, you know what,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I actually think I get into this. And then I
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: got quite excited because I no longer felt like an
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: unemployed loser. I thought, you know what I can I
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: can see a career path here or how long for?
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think that much. I just thought, let's
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: get in first, then let's get the training done, and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: then let's see what life is like as a you know,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: as a rural marine. And the thing is, though, by
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the time I came out of training and I pretty
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: much went straight into theater in the Northern Ireland conflict,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: that mentality was different. I wanted to kill the quote
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: unquote enemy. No longer was that nice little chap that
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: just joined up for the experience that, you know, the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the I guess it's some would call it an indoctrination
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: program had really worked its magic on my eighteen year
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: old self. Would you was your sort of progression similar
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: from when you decided to join up?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it was very similar. Chris, I joined
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: at twenty and because I didn't, I was not scholarly either,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: and I didn't really have a have a path. And
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: it was actually my mom said, well, why why don't
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: you join the army? And I said, why don't I
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: join the army? So she wasn't happy that I picked
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the infantry, But yeah, I think, like you said, to
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: get to that point where I'm going to kill the enemy,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: it was a slow burn, you know, it was a
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: slow burn through training, through you know, other deployments in peacekeeping,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: and you're just you know, I'm you're continuing to build
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: your resume as a soldier. You're continuing to get to
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: get courses and to get training, and those courses are
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: to learn how to defeat the enemy, and or medical
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: courses to you know, save you know, my fellow soldiers,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: or or you know, because the country that we are,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: or to save the enemy if we need to do
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that as well. But everything is building towards becoming a
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: more effective soldier. And a big part of being an
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: effective soldier is in the infantry, is to you know,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: be able to defeat the enemy by whatever means.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, And it's funny, I was going to ask you,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: do you still think the enemy is the same people
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: that you thought it was. If you want to see
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the enemy the British Army, you just go out to
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: London and look at the Parliament building, think.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You I mean, I see it. I don't. I still
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: see it as the same, Yeah, I still see it
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: as the same as what it was in Afghanistan and
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: who it was, and I don't think that's changed for me.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are you would you say you're a Trudeau fan?
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Or is?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Are you not a political type person?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not. I'm not a political type person.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I just I never have been. I'm pretty neutral and
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I generally don't think it matters all that much who's
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: in what position because they're all similar.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Have your views on nine to eleven changed? I know
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: we mentioned this in our in our emails or insight
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: there that you didn't have when you were, you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a youngster.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Definitely, because to me, nine to eleven is why we
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: why I went to war, and I visited New York
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and I went to the you know, I went to
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: the the World Trade Center monument, and I didn't think
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: it would have any effect on me, because generally those
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: types of things don't, But but it did, and it
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: did because I thought of the loss. I thought of
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: the friends that I lost from that act, those acts
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: that that made me go to war. So I saw
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: those memorials as as you know, a reminder of the
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: friends and the soldiers that I lost, we lost going
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: over to Afghanistan.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a kind of official narrative type of guy.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: More probably more.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, tell us about was it kibble? Was your
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: first role as a sniper.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: No, my first was into Canada Heart in two thousand
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: and six.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, and I guess that was where you changed from
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: being on patrol to having this, I don't know what
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: you kind of called it, well, a highly specialized role.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're still within the infantry unit. I'm still an infanteer.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I just now have you know, this specialized training as
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: a sniper and we bring those you know, individuals together
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: and we we we have a sniper platoon, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: a group of us, and we're we have a boss,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: and we have different roles within the detachment, a sniper
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: detachment anywhere from we could be operating four six. But yeah,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: that's that's how that first deployment started, and.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: In this sniper patoon. So Barry, Yes, sorry, we had
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: an interruption there, didn't we. Yeah. What I was asking
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: is when when you're in Afghanistan as a sniper and
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: you talked about the sniper troop, is that the troop
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: of the snipers, all the guys that are snipers, or
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: is this a specialist troop to support you as a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: sniper or the snipers.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: That's that's the that's as as the snipers, the specialists
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: as the snipers within the infantry battalion.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Right, okay, so all the snipers together, correct, And did
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: you did you get kind of specialist treatment at all?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's Afghanistan, but did you get
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: a few you know, a few more cakes and beers.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Or you know, I would almost say we got la
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: because we we weren't. We were the kind of the
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: way we were structured is we were we could go
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: and support any of the other companies within the battalion.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: So if Charles's Company needed support, we would go and
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: help Charles Company. So as far as accommodations and things
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: like that, we were we were usually the last lot.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: We usually got the last picks of stuff. Now we
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: were very well supported, but you know, we were sort
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: of like we're sort of like just roving around into
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: different areas. All was constantly moving. Never had you know,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a camp that was our own.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like no, Mad's a bit exactly.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We lived out of our rucksack and our get
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: bag and did that.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm guessing that got quite harsh quite quick.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I mean we were out, we were outside of the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: wire for the entirement of the tour the six or
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: six and a half months. And in two thousand and
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: six the camps were quite austere. There was not much infrastructure.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: They did get built up over time, but you know,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: we're washing clothes by hand. Ninety percent of our meals
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: were rations, and we're living in the sand and we're
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: living in the dirt. And I think that helps though,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: because it's that's all you have, right, You're just completely
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: enveloped in it. You sleep, you sleep in it, you
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: wake up in it, you eat in it, you go
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: to the bathroom in it. You're just always in it. Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Did you have any wet rations? Wet rations like wet
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: ones like you boil them in the bag sort of thing,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: as opposed to dehydrated, Yeah.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And that was the Canadian ration is a wet ration mostly.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of alert to the Brits, like
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: you guys get a twenty four hour box.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean it's all changed. When I was
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: in everything was dehydrated and you had to heat it
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: up on a cooker, you know, or or a hexam
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: in stove. And now it all tends to be the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: heated pouch. You know, you put it in a pouch
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: and you break it or whatever and it heats up.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Ours were the same. We would boil boiling bag and
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: you know, we would trade with we would trade with
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the Brits, we'd trade with the Americans, just to get
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: a taste of something different every now and then, and
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: we would get we would get some fresh meals, depending
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: on the camps would sometimes get fresh food in so
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: we might get a fresh meal a couple times a week.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: And are you getting choppered between you know, bases. I'm
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: guessing there's no other way, is there?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: A lot of road moves, so we were doing a
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: lot of movement in the in the labs, the lab threes,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: definitely some some helo movement generally if we were moving
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: back to the airfield, back to Canador, our airfield, a
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: lot of that was was helicopter movements, some Chinooks, some
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: black Hawks. But yeah, we still spend a fair amount
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: of time driving.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: And in addition to your sniper rifle, have you still
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: got your was it like M sixteen or yeah?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: What we had so we called a C seven or
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: a C eight, So we had a C eight, which
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: is more like an M four, a shorter version, so
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: we used this C eight. It was a flat top,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: heavy barrel with just various optics on it, so we
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: had that, and we'd always have a side arm. We
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: had a Browning nine millimeter high power was was our
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: side arm. So yeah, we'd have two to three weapons
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: on us at any time when we were deployed out
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: outside of the camp.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of kit, isn't it, and a lot
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of ammunition.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: That was one of the big things in snipers is
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: you're you're working in these you know, two four six
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: man teams, but you're carrying you know, a section plus
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: worth of equipment optics and night optics and thermal and
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and you're carrying all your food and the last thing
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: you get the jam into your ruckstack is a piece
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: of warm gear and some food. Everything else is AMMO,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: water and mission essential kit. So some heavy heavy rocks.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And where is where are you getting your
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: resupplies from for ammanation and food.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: The resupplies would depending on what area we are working in,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: It would usually come from the company that we were supporting,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So the company quartermaster would would make sure we would
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: get resupplied, so mostly Canadians, sometimes it was the Americans
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: if we were co located with them, which we were
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: at times on that in two thousand and six, we
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: definitely didn't starve.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just thinking about your rounds for the sniper
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: rifle were I know you said the caliber earlier, but
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: were they specialist rounds that had to come from a
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: certain place or could you get them anywhere you went?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: No. So in two thousand and six we deployed with
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: a new rifle for the Canadian military, so it was
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: a C fourteen Timberwolf, so it was a three three
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: eight caliber and we would be the only ones that
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: would hold that animal. And it was just a matter
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: of if we knew what company we were going to
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: go out with, you know, we would make sure that
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: they had a resupply box for us if if required.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And we had an our boss who would be the
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: other author of the book, Gordon Cullen. He was our
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: unit master sniper during that tour, and he would also
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: make sure that that the resupply was always well coordinated
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: so we would get what we need when we needed it.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Did you find because you're a hunting you know, a
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: country that's very well known for its hunting. Obviously a
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: lot of forests and mountains in Canada. I've been in
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: sort of Jasper and from Vancouver and wherever I've been, Oh,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I forget the name of the place, Kelowna and a
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: few other Calgary I was thinking of an incredibly incredible
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: part of the world, by the way, just phenomenal, phenomenal.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: But did you've obviously been a hunting community, who knows
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: your rifles and all that sort of thing. Were those
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: kind of guys attracted into the military and did they
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: then become snipers or is that nothing to do with it.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I think there was a mix of I was not
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: a hunter. I'll say I had some experience with firearms
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid, just shooting a twenty two,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: but nothing nearing what you know, I did training as
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: a sniper. But we certainly did have guys that had
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: a hunting background that you know, new firearms, that were
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: very experienced in the woods before they came into snipers,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and it was I think it was advantageous for those
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: guys to have those skills.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And so I'm getting this impression that you're
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: you're out there and you're getting attached to you know,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: you're sent to a company who's doing specific maneuvers and
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: you're the sniper guy. And is that how it worked?
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And in a big part of two thousand and
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: six was Operation Medusa, which at the time I believe
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: was the largest NATO offensive since Korea, at least that
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Canada was involved in. And in that instance, we so
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I was six', Three charlie was my call, Sign so
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: our sniper debt was attached To Charles, company and we
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: we did exactly. That we we we pushed out with,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: them and we got some high ground in masson guard
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: and we we did some we did some flank, security
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: obviously watching, watching watching the flank of the. Company and
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: we just bring a lot of skills we Can we
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: can engage with the, rifle, fire, artillery emergency close air if,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: required and any one of us within the sniper debt
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: can do. That we all have that, Skill we all
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: have that. Training.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Right and were you when you join these, companies were
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: you treated with a certain amount of respect for the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: position you?
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Held certainly no, Disrespect, Yes AND i think a big
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: part of it, is you, know some of those COMPANIES
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: i served in prior to going Into, snipers and we're
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: a small army and we know we we know each.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Other SO i knew a lot of the n C o.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: S i knew a lot of the. Soldiers so there
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: was you, know definitely A i think they liked to
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: have us. There they knew what our capabilities, were they
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: knew what our skills, were and we were you, know
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: we were part of we were part of the big,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: team we were part of the big. Picture and so,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: YEAH i think to answer the, question, YEAH i mean
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: they respected us and they were happy to have, us.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And THEY i kind OF i guess WHAT i meant
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: is you got all these officers milling around and they
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: were happy to defer to your.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Judgment, yeah and that's something THAT i would say the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: unit master sniper was a sergeant or a warrant. Officer
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: we didn't have an officer Within snipers who made any
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: decisions for, us made any deployment, decisions made any tactical.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Decisions so if we're going to go to a, company
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: then the, detachment the sniper, commander the detachment commander of
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: that you know that group is going to go and
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: speak directly to the to the officer in charge of
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: that company to discuss what is the best way that
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: snipers can support his. Operation and that's a conversation that
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: AN nco is going to have directly with an. Officer
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: and we. Were we never had any issues speaking with the.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Officers there was no there was no. Animosity you, know
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: you're AN, ncl you Know i'm an. Officer you're going
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: to do WHAT i. Say they knew that we held that,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: expertise and they deferred to, us and LIKE i, said
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: we would figure out what was the best way we
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: could Support.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Is it the sniper? Role is that solely for ranks
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: and non commissioned? OFFICERS i mean has A would an
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: officer ever undergo that course for any? Reason?
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Not in my, time we never had an. Officer it
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: was never available or open to.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Officers, yeah they'd have a trouble with a map, breeding wouldn't?
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: They they may definitely have trouble with the map.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Reading so and what that's WHAT i wanted to Ask
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: barry is your spot in sniper school is how is that?
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Pick do you pick your own spotter because he's your,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: buddy or you, know you went for a couple of
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: beers and got on, well or they're, chosen and then
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: do you deploy.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Together so on my, course on my basic sniper, course
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: a spot we're just paired with somebody and the instructors
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: were good at monitoring us on the range and if
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: they could see that there was some personality, conflicts then
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: they would switch us out because, ultimately especially during, training
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: your spot is so crucial to passing your your shooting,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: phases especially at the longer. Ranges when you're relying on,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: them they're calling your, shot they're calling your fall a,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: shot and you have to trust. Them they're telling, you you,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: know when did adjustments to make or elevation adjustments to,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: make and you have to trust. Them as far as
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: getting to deploy with, Them there's certainly been times where
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: if you have the same if you have multiple people's
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: successful on a course and they get to go the
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: into the, platoon they may get to deploy. Together but
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: in our instance In, afghanistan we were we were sort
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: of brought in together and we had a good amount
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: of work up training to the tour where we were
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: able to get comfortable with a different with a different,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: shooter with a different.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Spotter, okay and This, barry you mentioned this Operation. Medusa
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: things all kicked off there a, bit and you you
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: were decorated for, that for your role in that, way you, not.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Well THE i, know the the, group the sniper group
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: was was decorated for a lot of different a lot
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: of different events throughout that tour in in in two
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: thousand and. Six it was a pretty intense tour and
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: we had lost we had lost quite a few we
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: lost quite a few. SOLDIERS i was not decorated in that.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: INSTANCE I i was when you, know unfortunately one of
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: on a, patrol one of our, soldiers one of our,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: snipers struck AN i D.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Was that a, Fatality, no that was not a.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Fatality that was he was a double amputee below the.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Knees and you, know there's a there's a chapter in
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the book about. It it's A i'll say it's a
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: pretty emotional emotional chapter for me to to just have
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: re kind of gone through that. Again And i'm pretty
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: open about HOW i, felt and you, know some some
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: dark times WHERE i was looking at, it and you,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: know even though it was a it was a good
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: friend who who struck the id and AND i was
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: able to provide first aid to to you, know be
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: one of the guys who was intro you, know important
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: in saving his. Life but you, know there's also a
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: point where you're you're happy it wasn't, You and that's
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: sometimes a hard it's a hard thing to say when
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you you see your friend who's lost his. Legs but you,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: know that's that's where my mind. Went after my mind
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: went Was i'm glad that wasn't.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Me how actually is? That BECAUSE i, Mean i've told
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: this story before that the guy behind me on patrol
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: one day In, belfast he got hit three times and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: one round hit his, rifle one round hit his electronic,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: equipment and the other round hit him just above the
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: above the, plate and, boy that was enough to spin
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: him around so hard that his equipment flew off and
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: he had a bruise like this big the next, day you,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: know and obviously he went into shock and refused to
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: get in the. Ambulance he, said, No i'm patrolling back
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: in a really tenacious sort of. Guy and you, know
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: that was one thing you could almost, say like we
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: we could laugh about. That, WELL i mean we did
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: laugh about it watching your mate not only get his
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: legs blown, off but you're the one putting the torner
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Cas on and trying to keep him. Alive that's that,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: is you, know another level of witnessing. Trauma how can
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: you tell us you know? It, SORRY i just explained
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: a bit more. So you, know we were only over
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: there for about a, week maybe ten, days and one
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: of our guys was shot. DEAD i let the patrol
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: out of the main main main, gate and about five
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: or six minutes, later bank, bank but Bank Bank, Bank Bank,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: bank like eighteen rounds went off and then it came
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: over the we had a, fatality and you, know the next,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: day that, afternoon we you, know or the next, day
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: we got debriefed and THE ceo or THE oc, says, right,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: fellas you, know we're rule, mariies. Commandos there's the, gate
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: get out and do your. Job AND i just remember
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: everyone turned and we went out and did our, job
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and it was very proud moment as a young. Man
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: that was for. Me AND i also remember, thinking, wow
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: shit does get, real doesn't. It you, know could you
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: kind of talk us through how how this affected.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: You. Yeah, so when when we did have the I d,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: strike it Was, january so we had we'd been through
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the majority large part of the tour, already so you know,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: lost we'd lost quite a few guys from you, know
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: insurgent action FROM ied, strikes and a lot of guys
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: had been. Injured so it's hard to see you get
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: you to, it but but you do get used to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: it because that's that's how that's. Combat you, know we
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: we we try to kill, them they try to kill.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Us that's that's. Combat so when we did have the
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: I d, strike it was we were a four man
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: patrol and it was the last man who hit THE I.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: D SO i walked over, It gord walked over, it
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: the next guy walked over, it and then the last
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: guy hit. It SO i WAS i always walked point
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: on that. Tour that was my that was my primary
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: role when we were when we were, moving AND i,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: WAS i was comfortable on. Point SO i was probably
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: twenty meters ahead when the I d went, off and
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: you know it was it's nighttime and it's so quiet In.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Afghanistan there's there's no. Sound it's the sound is aircraft
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: or maybe a military VEHICLE id lean, somewhere but there's no.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Sound there's no cars driving, around there's there's no humm of.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Electricity it's it's. Silent you can you, know you hear your,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: breath you hear your you hear your own, heartbeat and
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: then you know that that night is you, know it's
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: interrupted in this boom and this blast goes off AND,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: i you, KNOW i got down to a knee because
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: we know what's going, on and we're under. Contact what's happening?
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Next AND i heard WHAT i. Heard it sound like
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: a piece of metal that was hitting the tree branches
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: up ahead of, me And i'm, thinking, well that's a
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: grenade coming. In So i'm, LIKE i need to. Move
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: SO i try to take a step forward to get
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: into a, ditch into a little bit of, cover but
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: unfortunately my legs didn't get the message to, move SO
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: i kind of fell forward and rolled into the ditch
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: and then, there you, know then you, know you're assessing
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: and there's no, gunfire but you're just you're hyper sensitive
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: at that, time so there's no. Gunfire and then then
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: you start to hear from. Behind you can hear that someone's,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: hurt and SO i call back And i'm, like do
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you guys need? Me and they're like, Yep and so
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: BACK i, go AND i don't know who it. Is
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: at this. Point AND i get back and THEN i,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: see you, KNOW i see my. Friend he's laying on
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: his back and the first look and, seeing you, know
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: the devastation to his legs and the blood and he's
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: laying beside a small hole and there's still smoke coming
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: out of the. Hole you, know it Was, okay it's
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: it's time to. Act that's your, Friend he's going to
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: do it for. You get to, work and you, know
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: it's just you just get into. It you have to
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: put you have to put the feelings aside at that
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: point and you have to get to. Work and that's
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: what we. Did we all had a role to do
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: in in that being calling in a nine. Liner someone's
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: a little bit of security that we. Have and and
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Then i'm Doing i'm doing first. Aid and you, know
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: The jody who was, hit he WAS i still to this,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: DAY i don't know how he was so, coherent but
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: he was telling, me make sure you get a. Turniqy
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: you know he. Was he was assessing, himself which still
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: absolutely blows my, mind given the extent of his. Injuries
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: and and then you do what you can and what
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: we WHAT i could do in that instance was you,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: know a turnique on each leg bandage to try to
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: keep the wounds clean and just hold his hand and
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: be there for. Him and it's you, know it's, emotional
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: and it's it's even this many years removed from, it
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: because you, Know i'm Doing i'm doing checks on, him
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: And i'm feeling his pulse AND i can feel that
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: his pulse is it's getting. Weaker he's he wasn't losing
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: a massive amount of. Blood but you don't know what
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: the internal damage. Is you don't know where where he's
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: bleeding from internal and that's nothing THAT i could certainly.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Do so you just you, wait and you can feel
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: his life like, slipping you, know and, thankfully you, know
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: the they got to us, quickly another UNIT O Reckie
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: platoon who was out on the operation as. Well, uh
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: they had a medic. Attached they hauled ass through through
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: the night to get to, us to offer some some more.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Assistance and then you, Know jodie's evacuated and now we're.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Left now we're left out. There AND i still remember
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: they offered, us do you guys want to ride back to?
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Camp we weren't too far out from the, fall and
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: we said, no, no we'll, walk you, know much like, You,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: no we'll we'll go back out the. Gate BUT i
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: remember every step walking back to that camp because every
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: STEP i THOUGHT i was going to blow.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Up do you know what kind of device it? Was
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: would it have, been for, example a command wire or
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: a booby?
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Trap we're pretty sure it was a pressure plate with
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: any personnel mine wired to a mortar Around.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah and the direction the blast actually. Went the blast
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: went back the way we. Came so HAD i hit,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: that it would have it may have taken out the
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: rest of the guys behind.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Me so and did this you see this in that
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: you see people talk about this a. Lot but did
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: this make you more determined to kind of do your
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: role and take out as many enemy combatants as you.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: COULD i don't think it. CHANGED i Think i've always
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: looked at it as LIKE i had, said it's. Combat,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: they you, know the teleman are going to employ the
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: best best methods to to engage, us to you, know
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: to kill, us to wound. Us and they used idis
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: and you, know we used, artillery and we used, aircraft
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: and we used. Drones and you, know no no fight is,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: fair especially not over. There no no fight is ever
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: going to be. Fair BUT i don't think it. Changed
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: it didn't change my. RESOLVE i still had my job to.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: DO i had my rules of engagement THAT i was
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: going to make sure THAT i. Followed BUT i certainly
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: wasn't going to give anybody a free.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Path, yeah, okay, Okay AND i suppose we should get
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: down to talking about the business of killing. People, well
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: is there that fabled first? Time? WELL i mean obviously there,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: is but is it is it the way that you
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: see it depicted in?
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: FILMS i would, say for me or for any of
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: our group in two thousand and, six there was No
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: there was no, celebration there was no there was no
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: pad on the. Back there was just this is what
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: we came here to. Do this is our. Job and we're.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Professional we're professional, soldiers you, know within an infantry, battalion
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: and we have a very important and specific. Role and you,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: know we we always pride ourselves on our, professionalism and
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: and we just we kept, that you, know we kept,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: That we kept that thought throughout and because we knew
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: it could just as easily be us on the other
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: end one.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Day, yes do you do you know how many people you?
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Shot is that WHAT i mean is is that in the.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Book that's that's not in the, book and that's not
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: something THAT i would that's not something THAT i would
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: keep track of or OR.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I meant more sort of how can you, Say I'm
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I'm the Way i'm thinking is like what mental told
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: all this takes on on on a, sniper AND i,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: MEAN i guess to that to that, end you, know
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: what's one person or one hundred, people it's it's it
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: still seems like a you, know a huge thing to go.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: THROUGH i, Honestly, CHRIS i THINK i thought more about
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: how it didn't affect me than how it did affect.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Me SO i spent a lot of time in between
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: tours and after tours saying to, Myself, okay you did,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: this you shot, people you dropped artillery on, people you
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: called in you, know aircraft on. People should this affect
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: me more than it? Does AND i spent a lot
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: of time thinking about that and, wondering you, know AM
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: i okay because it's not bothering? Me and ULTIMATELY i
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: think it just comes down to, compartmentalize compartmentalize. Things And
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: i'm going To afghanistan and you, know The taliban are
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: going to try to kill, me And i'm going to
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: try to kill The, Taliban and sometimes they, succeeded and
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: more than often we. Succeeded and that's how that's How
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: i've looked at.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: It, yeah AND i got some kind of reading the
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: bit of your book THAT i, did AND i DID
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: i also did Some internet, search and you have been
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: through the mill mentally, Yourself. BARRY i just wonder what
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: was behind, that, Sorry Chris. Uh in my research before our,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: CHAT i gathered that you we call, it you, know
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: you've been through the mill like. MENTALLY i didn't. Know
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: is that like resettlement to civilian life or or?
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: What? What? What?
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: What what have you found?
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: CHALLENGING i think the biggest, thing the biggest challenge is
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: was always after a, tour coming home and just trying
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: to be normal because you're you're overseas and you are
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you're you're just you're enveloped in it twenty four to.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Seven you've got a gun on you all the. Time
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: there's there's danger everywhere you. Go if you're In Kanda
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: heart there's rocket, attacks which we joked, about you, know
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: but and you're out of the. Wire it's you just
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: never know and you're you're you're hyper, Alert you're you're
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: just hyper. ALERT i was all hyper alert WHEN i
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: was WHEN i was. Out so then it would always
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: take me a good three months back In canada to
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: just be actually be able to relax, again to not
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: hear that car backfire in a parking lot and think
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: it's something other than a car, backfiring you. Know and
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: and there's there's times AND i would wake up in
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night AND i would put my
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: hands on my chest because that's WHERE i would keep
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: my MY c eight WHEN i, slept AND i wouldn't feel,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: it AND i would Be i'd be, like where's my,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: gun And i'm, like, Oh i'm. Home it's, Okay i'm.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Home so there is always that sort of that. Transition
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: and AND i think too with With, snipers we were
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: we were a close group and we talked about things
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: if things bothered, us things with With jody getting When
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: jody got, wounded we talked about. It we talked about
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: how we, felt and we talked, about you, know what had,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: happened and we we just relied on each. Other we
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: relied on the, other the other guys in the. Team
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: and once once you realize you're not the only one
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: who's feeling that. Way it kind of normalizes it and
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: it makes makes you feel. Better i'm not the only.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: One it's not just. Me so, YEAH i MEAN i
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: owe a lot of it to my teammates Within snipers
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: and to a lot of my other you, know good
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: friends within the within ONE rcr who had gone through
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: similar events and we just talked it.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Out, barry what prompted you to leave the.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Military so there's there's a. FUNNY i won't say. Funny
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: there's a there's a chapter in the book that Mere
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Bauman yar writes in third person about about, me AND
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: i was on My so in twenty, TEN i went
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: back To afghanistan again as a. Sniper this TIME i
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: was a. SERGEANT i had my own Sniper Dat gord
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: was my boss, again which was. Fantastic and the fifth,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: TOUR i was in my thirteenth, year AND i knew
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: THAT i was destined, to you, know move on to
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: the next rank level and kind of with, that possibly
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: lose my position Within. Snipers AND i was my mom
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: will hate, this BUT i was, outside we were in
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: a we're in a camp AND i was outside smoking
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: a cigarette or smoking a fag for your. Listeners and
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: we're in a rather big camp and two mortars landed
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: in the camp about one hundred and fifty meters, away
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: AND i just looked at them and you, know boom,
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: boom and then people started running AND i just that
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: that was. It i'm, LIKE i, said you, Know i've been,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: there done, That i've got THE t, shirt And i'm gonna,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Look i'm gonna look for something else to. Do AND
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: i went back into my my tent and the guys
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: the rest of the team is, like, hey we are
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: we going to get into the bunker because that was the,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: drill AND i said to, them, yeah you guys, Go
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: i'm just going to lay down on MY. COT i
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: laid down on MY cot AND i pulled out my
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: my laptop and, said, okay what's the next? Chapter?
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Wow did you get any kind of decompression after these
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: tours and also when when you?
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Left, Yeah so after The afghanistan, tours we would we
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: would go To cyprus for a three three or four
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: day three or four day reintegration training where we would
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: do classes in the morning and then they would let
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: us run wild until until a curfew. TIME i, mean
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: were they helpful to some, degree, yes but everyone just
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: wanted to get, home so we we would do that
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: and then, yeah as we're, back as we're, back we
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: would we would continue to do some. Reintegration we would you,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: know have to do surveys and you, know you, know
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: did you see bad? Things do you want to talk to?
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Anybody and you, Know i'm sure you know there's still
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: that that macho mentality WHERE i DON'T i don't need any.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Help BUT i certainly think that it was it was
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: there for. US i don't think they always necessarily knew
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: what exactly they needed to support how they best needed
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: to support. Us BUT i think that's ever, evolving AND
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: i think especially now there's a lot more information on,
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: it and there's a lot of people who are advocating
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: for you, know for veterans and for just for people
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: to get. Help so it's, there it's getting. Better could
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: have been better at the, Time but.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's an interesting. ONE i, mean you can't predict
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: who's going to be affected by. What one of the
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: kind of friends at, Home, sorry CAN i just say
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: could you like and? Subscribe? FRIENDS i haven't asked you
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Because i've been riveted by this. Chat if you could
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: like subscribe and click the notification, bell that'll be. GREAT
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: i just wanted to give my Upcoming Mount everest summit
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: a shout out because it's quite relevant to what we're talking.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: About i'm going to, Say everest In, April i'll be
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: shining a light for struggling veterans who AS i used
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: to be, one and saying there's always light at the
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: end of the. Tunnel i'll be supporting my local or
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: my NEAREST Ptsd, retreat which is a really good guy
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: down there In cornwall who just literally goes and plucks
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: veterans off the suicide line and takes them into his
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: care and helps to you, know helps them to get
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: over their trauma and rehabilitate. Them and he's got no funding.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Whatsoever so if anyone can chip in a fiver for, that,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Folks i'd really appreciate. It but the other THING i
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: want to, do bar is BECAUSE i know from my
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: own journey that so many of us joined the military
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: from damaged. Childhoods you, know you mentioned it. Yourself you
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: saw divorce that in itself for a youngster can be
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: a traumatizing. Factor many of, us we went through significant
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: stuff from an extremely young. Age and so the issue
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: is when you're in the, forces you've got this kind
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: of umbrella were as long as you say yes, sir
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: even if you don't really mean, it you're going to get.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Paid you're going to get your, sickness you, know twenty
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: four to, seven you're going to get we call It
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: jolly's and you, know, expedition you, know fun expeditions and
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: jump out of aeroplanes and all this kind of. Stuff
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: and then you find yourself In Civvy street and things
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: are different, there you. Know and then you realize that
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: this big head that you've been carrying for however many,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: years and no one cares about. It they don't even,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: know like the difference between The army and The marines
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: in for the most, part and why should you? Know
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: why kind of should? They and then when things start
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: going wrong and your trauma comes to the surface from
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: a damaged, childhood and for, you it's validating that you're
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: no good at life and you don't deserve, shit and you,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: know it's kind of the voice of the overbearing father
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: or the absence father or whatever it. Is and then
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: of course the answer to that is to start self
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: medicating or other forms of behavior that comes out before
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: we know. It we've got people spiring downwards into such
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: a dark place that they think they're insignificant and they're
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: not loved and they're not. Worthy and that's you, know
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: we've seen that so much in this country this last two.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Months barry has been awful in The marines. Community you know,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: ALONE i rode The atlantic In, january the chap that
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be in our sister boat because there
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be two boats. Going he recently took
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: his own. Life and the THING i want to be shouting,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: is you, know why is nobody making this link that
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of us. Serve we came from tough, backgrounds
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and everyone just kind of makes out THAT ptsd is
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: something that you only get if you've been in. Common
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: And i'm sort of trying to, say, yeah you see
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: unpleasant stuff in, combat but you're an. Adult you know
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: you is your. Job you chose to do. That and
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: as an, adult like you, say you can compartmentalize things
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: or or you can go for a process of. Healing
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: the childhood stuff is so buried so deeply because when
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: you're three years, old you don't have the mental faculties
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: to deal with gross abuses that are done to, you
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: so you kind of bury them down. Deep and so,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: yeah this is kind of WHY i like to talk
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: about This, barry you, know IF i can raise awareness of.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: That In america, now they call it the thing behind the.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Thing what they mean is it's the thing like we all,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: get but no one's sort of talking. About And i'm
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: guessing In canada the suicide situation isn't any.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: DIFFERENT i, MEAN i certainly know of soldiers within my
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: unit who who had committed to, side you, know after
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: being In. Afghanistan but but like you, said what is
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: the thing behind the? Thing AND i mean without having you,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: know that that kind of detailed or intricate knowledge of that,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: person it's it's impossible to. Know, yeah but, YEAH i
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: mean it's certainly something THAT i think is is getting
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: the attention that it. Deserves AND i can also say
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: definitely with writing this, book it has allowed me to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: reconnect with a lot of a lot of fellow soldiers
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: who who are out of the military now and who
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: are are working to towards, that towards towards helping towards
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: helping helping our brothers and sisters who are. Suffering, YEAH
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: i don't, Know.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Barry SORRY i was talking a bit, Then but did
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: we actually ascertain what you found the heart that the
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: hardest was it kind of reassimilating to civilian. Life.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: YEAH i think it was just it was just to
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: bring myself down from that that sort of a hyper
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: alertness that just always on. Guard and it was just
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: you gotta scale for, me you, know scale it, down
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: scale it, down scale it, down scale it down slowly Until,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: okay you, Know i'm in a parking lot that's a car,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: backfire and Now i'm driving down the. Highway there's a
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: cardboard box on the side of the. Road that's not an.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Ied i'm In, canada and just you, know for, me
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: and LIKE i, said you, know to compartmentalize it and
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: just to think through, it, Right AND i think that
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: was a big thing for me is think think through.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: It think where AM, i what is? It and just
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: really think through. It and that definitely has helped me,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: to you, know to to keep a good.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: BALANCE i was listening to on there was a documentary
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: made where there's been lots of documentaries about The Folklands,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: war and One chap said that when he came back
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: on the, ships he was kind of sat with his
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: family in a place called South, sea which is a
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: quite a picturesque area Off, portsmouth so a naval sort
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: of area that there's lots of nice greens that you
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: can go and. Sit and he said he was sat
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: there with his family and he was watching people just
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: walking past eating ice, creams and it really got to,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: him how how can you all be so? Normal why
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: don't you understand like what we've just been you, know
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: what we've just been. Through did you kind of get
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: an element of that when you see, people you, know
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: doing road rage and stuff and you, think, hey, buddy like,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: you you really don't know.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Anything, Yes AND i still, Do and in having been
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: out of the military since twenty, TWELVE i still. Do
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: and it's perspective for. Me it's. PERSPECTIVE i can't ever
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: expect someone else to know What i've gone, through or
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: someone else to know what you've gone. Through they have
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: their own perspective on on what is what is difficult
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: or challenging in their. Life AND i have my perspective
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: what's difficult and challenging in my? Life and and AND
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: i and there's you, know there's A porson in the
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: book WHERE i talk about you, know you, Know afghanistan
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: didn't define, me it refined. Me it made me a
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: better person being in those, situations being in. COMBAT i
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: could not have imagined learning more about myself having been
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: in those. Situations AND i look at them in a
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: POSITIVE i look at them in a positive. Way as
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: terrible as some of them, were and the friends That i've,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: LOST i still have to look at it as it's
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: made me a better.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Person And, barry when when you're not writing, books what
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: what do you get up to these?
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Days, well, retired definitely from the. Military ANYTIME i can
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: get out of my, motorcycle that's always a good way
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: to clear my. Head and have some other writing projects
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: That i'm looking into right, now and definitely keeping.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Busy, yeah well it's you, KNOW i just think life is.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: FASCINATING i love these talks because when AM i going
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: to get to talk to someone who's you, know been
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: in the situations that you. Have AND i always say
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: to people out, there talk to, everyone listen to everyone's,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: story because if you only listen to the same stuff
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: because you find it, palatable you don't find you you're
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: going to, Have you're not gonna kind of develop your
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: apparatus that you need in life to make sense of it.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: All and, yeah SO i guess What i'm trying to say,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: is thank you for coming and sharing your story with.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Us thank thank. You chris really really enjoyed the.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Chat, yeah, ABSOLUTELY i WISH i wish you all the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: best with the. Book stay on the line just SO
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: i can thank you properly WHEN i push the record button.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Off but there you. Go, Friends, Look i'm going to
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: show the book. Now If i'll show it On, amazon
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: there we. Are there'll be a link below the podcast
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: if for those people that want to grab themselves a,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Copy i'm sure there's you, KNOW i bet it's a
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: lot more near the knuckle reading the book than the
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: chat we've just, had, folks because we've got, to you,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: know be a bit sensitive because of the platforms that we're.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: On but there you. Go there you. Go i'm going
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: to put barris contact details or the details he sent
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: me below the. Video that just leads me to, say once,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: again if you can like and, subscribe click the notification,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: bell that'd be. Awesome if you want to support the,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: channel that'd be. Great you can support me by becoming
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: a YouTube, member or support me On patreon or, locals
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: or buy me a coffee for as little as one
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: ninety nine and you GET vip tickets to my events
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: or discounts of my of my. Events we've got The
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: arctic trip coming. Up if you want to come and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: do some roughty toughty stuff in the in the in
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: The Swedish. Arctic give me a, shout you get your
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: name in the video. Credits you join our monthly zoom
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: chat And i'll give you as many shout outs AS i. Can,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Right i've said, Enough, barry just hold the line much, love,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: friends go study. Friends thank you for listening to The
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: bought the T shirt. Podcast please, like, subscribe and, share
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: and don't get to follow me on social. Media use
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: the Name Chris, Throw, Instagram chris Dot. Throll thank.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: You marketing is, hard But i'll tell you little secret
• 1:10:00
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• 1:10:02
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