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132. Freedom In The Church - Preaching · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:04
Welcome to the For Freedom podcast.
0:10
I found my freedom of you. I found a joy I can't lose.
0:19
And thank God it's true. You wrapped your arms around me
0:23
and heaven broke through From the moment she found me.
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I found my freedom in you. This podcast exists to bring the
0:35
freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
0:38
everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James
0:42
Seyffert and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the Four Freedom
0:50
Podcast today. Thank you for being with us,
0:51
joining us in our In the Church series.
0:54
We're glad you're here. Then enjoying the past few
0:57
weeks, every episode has just been getting better and better.
1:02
We've been doing real good at our churches.
1:04
I'm doing good, good at our church.
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We just had our concert recently that I told you all about.
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A lot of good responses, a lot of visitors came in and so
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praise the Lord for that. But I'm looking forward to
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today's subject. But before we do that, let's
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check in with James. James, how are you doing this
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morning? So, Brett, I'm doing good, man.
1:25
We had a wonderful weekend here as well.
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It was good to be back in the saddle, been able to preach.
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And then we had a great time hanging out with some of our
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church members at their house. We went to Texas a couple of
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weeks ago and Texas BBQ is like nothing else.
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It's it's great stuff And they are from Texas and so they made
1:45
us. Texas brisket.
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Texas burnt ends, sausage Turkey all smoked all day during
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church. Dude, I'm telling you, we got
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there, they made, I don't know what this wife made.
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She made some type of cream cheese corn in a in a crock pot.
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I swear if I put that in my head on top of my head, my tongue
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would beat my brains out trying to get to it.
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It was so good. I've she made like to go plates
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for me. I've been eating on it for the
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last couple of days. It was so delicious and so just
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hanging out with some church people and getting to know them
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better, being able to be around those and being around people
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that we don't have it. You know, sometimes we see once
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or twice a week, but we get to spend time with them.
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It's been great. Something something I love doing
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in the ministry is just being around people, hanging out with
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them. And so it was great.
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We had a good time there and then we got back from our
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preaching conference last week with me and John and that was a
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blessing there, learned a lot and I've already incorporated a
2:48
lot of that in my preaching. And so we'll talk through some
2:51
of that today as well. But yeah, things have been
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really good. We are excited about the we're
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closing down this series of in the Church, man.
3:00
We've had a lot of good response.
3:01
A lot of people reach out to us and and we appreciate that.
3:04
Continue to share our podcast, continue to share the episodes
3:08
that have helped you so they can help other people.
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And we do appreciate that very much so.
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I am leaving in the morning. I've got a nine hour trip
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tomorrow. We're driving down to
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Jacksonville, FL so I can walk and get my degree, my accredited
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degree, my bachelor and they asked do you want to do you want
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us to mail you the degree? And I said no, no, I I don't
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believe so. I put a lot of time and effort
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into this degree, so I'm going to drive down there and I'm
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going to walk and so I am looking forward to walking and
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my in. My wife's sister and her family
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actually live in Jacksonville, so we'll get to spend some time
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with them. That's great.
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That's great. So you'll be officially
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accredited and then you're going to get your master's at New
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Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary.
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Is that correct? Yes, I've been accepted to New
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Orleans Theological Baptist Seminary and into their master's
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program. I'm going to go from my MDD of
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my Master Divinity and I will start that in August so.
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And then you'll transfer. I'm doing, I'm getting this
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degree, getting accredited the bachelor where I can go get my
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master's because that's the that's the plan and I am looking
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forward to getting into that. You know, when I was getting
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the, when I was getting the, the degree that I'm, you know,
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graduates waiting for for this weekend, all the Bible stuff,
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all the theology stuff, that stuff interests me.
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So you know, it was nothing to knock out those classes and
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study for those classes because anytime you're talking about
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theology, doctrine, the Bible, that kind of stuff, I eat that
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stuff up. I I live for that stuff.
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What got me was the English classes, this, you know, the the
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counseling classes and and writing the reports every week.
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And that was the stuff that got me.
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And so I'm hoping that the master stuff is a lot of Bible
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theology stuff that I just really.
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Enjoy. Yeah, Well, and I I think you
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you shared off the air that once you finish you're Mdiv at the
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New Orleans Baptistological seminar, you're going to
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transfer that to the Driscoll School of Jezebel spirit and get
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your doctorate degree from there.
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Is that correct? Exactly, yeah.
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He's already contacted me. I've been accepted into the
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program. We're just, we're just waiting
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on, you know, just waiting on that to go through.
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Hey man, waiting on him to find the scripture for the school of
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Jezebel and the Spirit of Jezebel.
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I've already been practicing my sword swallowing Havana, so I'm,
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I'm getting better at it. So you know, I'm going to be
5:54
performing. But you know, this time, as a
5:57
good testimony, I'm going to keep my shirt on.
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That's that's a good thing to do.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So, well, we've got a couple things coming up in the future.
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We've got our Indiana trip it, Brett.
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It's right around the corner, man.
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We had a. So close, man.
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We had a scare man. We were for me.
6:15
So we booked the house and I woke up Thursday morning last
6:18
week and I got an e-mail and it said your house that you have
6:23
rented is no longer available. Here's your refund.
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And I mean dude, I was, I was freaking out like what's going
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on here? We've we're like 30 something
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days away. We're going to be there in in no
6:36
time and got a message from the the person that we rented that
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we were written from. They had sold the house and the
6:43
new the new owners didn't want it to be a VRBO and so I
6:48
immediately went on VRBO house is a little further away from
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where we were at but relatively same cost And so we're renting
6:55
another house but literally I sent I sent Brett like one image
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was like hey we've got to go forward with it.
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It's so I booked it and so we're we're walking through with that
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and I'll be excited about being there still going to go.
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Still going. We're still sharing the house
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and hanging out. We'll go see the the holy
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grounds up in Hammond IN and I'll be able to kiss the feet of
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Jack house. And so looking forward to that
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and I've been able to give Beverly a hug the statue of
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Beverly there a hug. And so we're looking really
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forward to that. So yeah, we got that coming up
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and then November Bret, what's coming up then?
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November was We've got the For the Sake of the Gospel
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Conference in Fort Oglethorpe, GA which is Catoosa County at
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Hope Church, Catoosa Pastor JC Groves.
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And so we look forward to this every single year.
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And I think a lot of the other podcasts are going to be there
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as well that are in the RFP network.
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And we're looking forward to getting with our audience and
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getting with some recovering fundamentalists and you know,
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have a good time and, you know, talk about the gospel and so and
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just have a good time. And so I look forward to this
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every year. I plan my vacation around it.
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And so we are definitely looking forward to getting with you.
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If you're going to be there for the sake of the gospel
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conference, let us know. If you're a listener, come find
8:23
us there and talk to us. Tell us who you are.
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We, we always want to know more about our audience, know more
8:29
about our listeners. I've already had some listeners
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contact me and say they're planning on being there for the
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For the Sake of the Gospel conference.
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And so we are definitely looking forward to that and as of right
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now we are still. On for Israel.
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Absolutely can't wait. Israel's going to be great.
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And life changing for me, life changing.
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I know for Brett and for all of us that went and we're talking
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about preaching here in a minute.
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But I don't spend all. I can't think of a sermon that
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I've preached that I haven't thought about or even in my
9:03
mind. I may not physically reference
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it when I'm preaching, but I would in my mind think about,
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OK, this is where Jesus was at. I'm preaching through the the
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sayings of the cross right now. And so my mind every time I
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preach all seven weeks that I well, I'm in Week 5 right now.
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But every week I've went back mentally and and went back to
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Calvary and I see that that spot where it was at.
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I go to the garden tomb. Like in my mind I'm seeing those
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things and it just, it changes everything.
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It changes the way I preach, it changes the way I teach.
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Then I had even conversations with family members just a
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couple of weeks ago about it and about the trip.
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And so man, we hope you want to go, we want you to go with an
9:45
affordable trip and our details are on the website there at
9:48
fourfreedompodcast.com. And so go check that out as
9:52
well. Brett, Speaking of our meet up a
9:57
minute ago, you said that other hopes host of the podcast are
10:00
going to be there. One thing that we have done in
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the past that I would like to do again we got to reach out to
10:05
them is do some crossover episodes with the other podcast
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host of the RFP Network. And so we're looking at reaching
10:15
out to them and and doing some crossover stuff and some talking
10:18
through there just to lead up before we get to the meet up.
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And so man, we're really excited about doing that again with some
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of those other people, other hosts and hopefully that'll
10:28
encourage them to show up because you know, like I said
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the last, the last meet up, it was just me and Brett there.
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And so hopefully we can get some of our other networks there and
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be able to have a great time. But hopefully you'll be making
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plans in November to join us. James, we all know the reason
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why you want to do a cross episode crossover episode with
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beers and Bible. I just want to ask you one
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question. Were y'all too drunk to show up
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to the for freedom to the RFP meet up.
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I think that's what it was they got.
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They got too too deep on one side of the of the of their name
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there beers and Bible. They couldn't quite get to the
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Bible. They recorded.
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They recorded too many episodes in one day.
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Right, right. Unable to travel.
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Love it so well. Speaking of the Bible, Speaking
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of preaching, we got back from a preaching conference last week.
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Me and John went there in Asheville.
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I think I said Asheboro a couple times.
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My episode, it was in Asheville, there in Black Mountain and it
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was a great time with Steve Lawson.
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And we had planned to do this episode.
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We do our schedule out for the In the Church series.
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We had already planned to do the Preaching episode and it just so
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happened that I came back from a preaching conference at the same
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weekend. And so we're using some of these
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notes from the Steve Lawson one passion preaching conference
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that we I went to and he spoke Wednesday about a 7 hour lecture
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on what is a sermon, how to preach, how to dissect the
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message, how to go through a message.
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And so we're going to take a little snippet of of some of
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those notes, use it as a guide for us today and talk through
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preaching. And how do we know what we're
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sitting under is biblical? And so one of the things that he
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had said and and and we've said this before in the past, is when
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we listen to preaching and when we preach, because preaching is
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part of the church, right. The mission statement of our
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church is to preach the Word, to promote hospitality and to
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penetrate the darkness in our community.
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So the first and foremost thing in our church is preaching of
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the Word, and that's the instruction that God has given
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to the church in order for the church to grow.
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And so when we hear preaching, often times this is the type of
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preaching that we hear. We hear preaching that we were
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growing up hearing, or we may even preach this.
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We preach how we heard things growing up.
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We may start preaching something that we heard in a conference
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and then we also preach and teach things that we read.
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And so Brett, growing up we'll start with sort of this.
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Growing up what was the type of preaching that you heard growing
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up at your church as a young person, as a kid pre house
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Anderson, I know you said you surrendered to preach under the
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great Jack Scott preaching America, America, but what was
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the style of preaching prior to that that you heard growing up?
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My pastor, at first, my pastor was a funny guy.
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He would get up and he would make people laugh.
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He could do that easy. A lot of people would come
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listen to him just because, you know, they made him laugh, that
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he made them laugh. And so he was a funny guy.
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But mainly, you know, he could also, he could preach.
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He had a good presence. He could speak, you know, he
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could hold your attention. He could captivate you.
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He knew how to fluctuate his voice.
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And so I'm not at all denying that my pastor growing up wasn't
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a great preacher because he definitely had a talent for
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that. Now you peel peel back the
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layers a little bit and you investigate.
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You use hindsight, you dig a little deeper beneath the
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surface, and what you found is like he would preach the same 10
14:20
sermons over and over and over and tell the same stories.
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And you had to pretend like it was the first time you'd ever
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heard that story. And it was just a topical way,
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and it was very topical. Pull out two words.
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And it was such a waste. I think because he did have such
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a talent for preaching that if he would have actually exegeted
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correctly man, there's no talent could have done.
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Because I have to say, he really could speak.
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But that's mainly what it consisted of.
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It consisted of maybe 10 or so sermons.
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He would always find a way to bring every pass back to the
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same subject. He would always bring it back
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to, you know, the King James Bible.
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He would always bring it back to man is the head of the house,
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the woman submit. And so he would always find a
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way to bring every passage back to his tight, his kind of pet
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peeves. And so that's the type of
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preaching that I grew up under. And even though I want went to
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house Anderson, they didn't change that.
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They reinforced that. And so then when I got out into
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the ministry, the first decade of my ministry, that's the kind
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of preaching, you know, that I did because that's what I was
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taught growing up. Absolutely.
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And I I would say that mine wouldn't necessarily be the
15:53
same. We, my pastor was a grad from
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Tennessee Temple and so he was under the great Lee Robertson
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and in that area and ours was not as as legalistic and King
16:05
James only. I've shared before.
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I did not hear the name Jack Hiles until I was a senior in
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high school and so we were very insulated from the IFB movement
16:15
and my pastor did not even begin to use the terminology
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Independent Fundamental Baptist, pre pre Trib, King James.
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Only he didn't use that terminology until I was like 9th
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or 10th grade. He went to a Sword Lord
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Conference and then came back and started using some of this
16:32
terminology. And so I I felt like it was more
16:36
of he he went and some of the brethren were saying these
16:40
things and he felt like he needed to change some of his
16:43
rhetoric a little bit and so but but we were very insulated.
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I I felt like he was very balanced man in his preaching.
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Now some of his ethics and other things it's a different story
16:53
for a different podcast for a different time.
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But we we we got some good teaching and I grew so much as a
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young person under his ministry. I'll say it like this.
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I grew so much that when I got ordained he couldn't make it to
17:07
my ordination. And so I requested my ordination
17:10
certificate two weeks prior to me getting ordained and I mailed
17:15
it in an envelope for him to sign it to mail back so that his
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signature would be on the on my ordination certificate.
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So, so it made a great impact to my life fast forwarding to our
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college days. So of course I went to champion.
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And at champion we of course Eric was a fantastic speaker, a
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fantastic orator, and he was able to really bring out the
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word in in a lot in a very different way than I'd ever
17:44
heard in my entire life. And so this was the reflection
17:48
of men like Jack House and other men in ministry influencing him.
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One thing that you'll understand when you hear preaching is we
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replicate what we have heard. And so the more we, one pastor
18:02
friend of mine said we're a cheap knock off of our three
18:04
favorite pastors. A preacher is.
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And so who you listen to the most is who you're going to
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knock off inadvertently. Not because because you're
18:14
trying to. It's just the mimetic nature of
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us as humans. And so as pastors, we must be
18:20
careful of who we listen to because eventually we'll begin
18:23
to speak or give some same thoughts and terminology and our
18:28
inflection of voices and and will begin to be you listen to
18:32
someone who naturally likes to listen to, let's just use an
18:35
Andy Stanley for example. He will eventually begin to
18:39
speak and sound like Andy Stanley because that's who he's
18:42
listening to. And so Brett, your your days at
18:46
Howes Anderson and then at Heartland or wherever it was the
18:50
other place you went to talk about those days?
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Like, I definitely remember growing up.
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You know, even today while I preach, I still catch myself,
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you know, saying sayings and little things that my pastor
19:09
said growing up, His mannerisms, how he would hold his hand to
19:14
his face when he was trying to bring a point home.
19:18
I catch myself still doing that because I heard him preach for
19:23
so many years and talk about favorite preachers.
19:27
It's funny you mention that because we have this one
19:29
evangelist. Not a lot of he he, not a lot of
19:33
IFB people know him that I've asked about.
19:35
But he is a well known evangelist that we used to have
19:38
every year at our missions conference.
19:40
His name was Paul Swanky and I used to do an impression of Paul
19:46
Swanky and to the point where even when I preached today I I
19:51
can hear myself getting back into that Paul Swanky type of
19:55
message. He would he'd preach like this.
19:57
He would say take your Bibles and turn with me, please.
20:00
In the book of Psalm, chapter one and verse #1, blessed is the
20:05
man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly and and
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that's his cadence and that's how he spoke.
20:11
And I would I find myself falling into that.
20:15
How he used to do it just because I used to listen to the
20:19
preach all the time. I would play his tapes all the
20:21
time and even today I still listen to his messages because I
20:25
just love to hear him hear him speak.
20:27
You know he's hardcore IFB, so there are some sections I I
20:31
ignore, but he is one of my favorite preachers and I'll find
20:34
myself at times falling into that of, you know, my three
20:39
favorite preachers. So I think that that's that's a
20:40
great observation that he made. But yeah, when I was at at, at
20:44
at Hounds Anderson and tri-state you know, and listening to the
20:49
preaching and being taught preaching and you know, there
20:53
was just, it was all just topical.
20:56
It was just all let's bring everything back to the bus,
20:59
kids. Let's bring everything back to
21:01
the King James Bible. Insert yourself into all these
21:06
things in the Old Testament instead of Jesus.
21:09
And that's just the kind of stuff that we were taught.
21:12
Take 2 verses out and put the Bible down and preach on your
21:16
pet peeve. And that's when I got out of
21:18
that topical surface level type preaching.
21:23
I left thinking that, you know, whatever subject came to my mind
21:28
when I read a passage in the first thing that popped in my
21:31
head is what God wanted me to preach.
21:34
And it just caused some of the most cringe worthy sermons.
21:37
And so that's my my experience in college when it comes to
21:40
preaching. Absolutely same way here Brett
21:44
man I I will or I'm sort of getting ahead of myself but but
21:49
for I will back up for a minute I think.
21:52
I think when you when you were about to say my favorite
21:54
preacher, I really in my mind thought you were about to say
21:57
Andy Stanley. In my mind that's what I would
22:01
think you were going through and you're you're shaking your head
22:03
no, which is great. But same thing here.
22:07
I grew up hearing topical preaching, especially when we
22:10
got into college and then in in Idaho.
22:13
When I was there, and I will say this Brett, I was not, I did not
22:18
hear an expository because this is where we're going today.
22:24
Expositional preaching is biblical preaching.
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If it's not expository, it's not biblical.
22:29
I did not hear a in an in an expository preaching and
22:35
preaching through an entire book until I was 28 years old.
22:39
Sitting in a church anywhere else took me 2829 years and it
22:45
was at my former church in in Hiddenite sitting under my
22:49
pastor where I love and respect dearly.
22:52
And it was the first time I ever heard preaching through an
22:54
entire book of the Bible. And my mind was just my heart
22:59
was opened up to this amazing amount of wealth of knowledge.
23:04
And it took me going through that and and over the last years
23:08
of studying and and going through what I did this past
23:11
week, going to a preaching conference and and listening to
23:14
other preachers and listening to guys like HB Charles and Vodi
23:18
Balkam and some of these other great theologians of today teach
23:22
and preach on what is preaching. And so that is what we're going
23:27
to talk about today. What is a sermon?
23:30
And part of understanding what something is, is understanding
23:34
what it's not. 90% of an investigation.
23:39
I like how Steve Lawson said it 90% of a detective.
23:42
He goes in and he uncovers everything that's happened in a
23:45
crime scene. He wonders why the windows open.
23:47
He wonders why the pictures twisted a little bit.
23:50
Why is this rug pulled up? Why is this hair fiber here?
23:54
And they document everything. And through negation, they take
23:58
away the things that aren't necessarily part of what
24:01
happened in that crime in order to get down to what actually
24:05
happened. But they have to take away
24:07
certain things. You can't just go in and say,
24:08
well, this coffee mug's here was this coffee mug.
24:11
It had to be part of the crime scene when that coffee mug's
24:14
been there for 13 years and never moved.
24:16
And so it's taking away things in order to figure out what
24:19
things are. And so the first thing we've got
24:21
to do is look at what a sermon is not.
24:24
And I'm going to give us a list of of 16 things that a sermon is
24:29
not. And what we're When we go
24:31
through this list, we have to understand that all these things
24:35
can and should be part of a sermon.
24:38
But if you take one of them and you just use it, it's not a
24:41
sermon. And so let's go through the list
24:43
that he gave. The 1st is this.
24:44
It's not a term paper. It's not just simply getting up
24:47
and reading a bunch of facts. It's not an exegetical digest.
24:52
It's not like your Reader's Digest while you're sitting on
24:55
the toilet and you're reading the old school Reader's Digest.
24:57
It's not a classroom lecture. It's not a transfer of
25:01
information from one mind to another, although you should be
25:04
transferring information from one mind to another.
25:08
It's not an essay. It's not an editorial.
25:10
Your opinion doesn't matter. It's not a blog.
25:13
It's not a data dump. It's not a running commentary of
25:17
just simply stating facts. It's not a conversation.
25:21
It's not a debate. It's not a Ted talk.
25:24
It's not a form of entertainment.
25:26
It's not a collection of sound bites.
25:28
It's not AQ and A, and it's not a series of comments on a text.
25:33
Although these things should be part of your sermon.
25:35
They are not in himself a sermon.
25:39
All these things should be there.
25:41
But it's not simply just this, it's a we'll go through in a
25:44
minute of what a sermon is. But Brett, in your brief
25:47
thoughts, what would you say sermon is not after we talk
25:51
through those things, you know some?
25:54
Preachers, they get up and they just give you the information
25:58
like a nympho dump. They just let you kind of draw
26:01
your own conclusion. They give it to you and I I just
26:06
disagree that. I think, I think without
26:09
application, you don't have a sermon unless you do something
26:15
with it. Those are the three steps to any
26:18
single point in any sermon that I preach.
26:21
All have the same thing. You you explain it, you
26:24
illustrate it, you apply it. If you don't have application,
26:29
you don't have a a sermon. OK, you know, a sermon is also
26:35
not an excuse to get up for an hour and harp on your pet
26:40
peeves. It's not an excuse to get up and
26:44
regurgitate the same stories you've told over and over for
26:48
the last decade and make the same points over and over
26:52
because you're too lazy to study, to look for new stuff.
26:57
You have to work. It's labour.
26:59
You have to bring something fresh to the table.
27:03
Listen, teaching is good and teaching has its place.
27:07
But I agree, a sermon is not a lecture.
27:11
And also there, there's got to be some dynamics.
27:14
And you're preaching, you know, it's not, it's not a sermon
27:17
isn't just ho hum and drab and boring.
27:22
Now listen, I understand that people have different styles and
27:26
and that's fine, OK. I said earlier that a lot of
27:29
people like to go listen to my preacher because he was funny.
27:33
He could make you laugh and that that's a good thing.
27:35
Humor is a good thing. But on on the one side, we don't
27:39
want to be just so drab or putting everybody to sleep.
27:42
But on the other side, you know, we're not coming to church for
27:45
Comedy Hour. We're not coming to church to be
27:48
entertained. You know, we're we're we're not
27:51
coming for night at the Improv. We're here to be changed by the
27:56
word of God. A sermon is also not your
28:00
opinion of what a text is like. I've said this several times
28:04
when I left House Anderson, that's what I thought a sermon
28:08
was. It was whatever my opinion, like
28:10
you read the text, whatever comes to your mind, that's what
28:13
you preach. Then I've said before that I've
28:15
preached some of the most God awful, cringe worthy stuff
28:19
because I thought that that's what it was.
28:21
I was not taught to study for a sermon.
28:24
I wasn't taught to use commentaries, you know, I wasn't
28:27
taught to do the normal things that you would do to prepare for
28:32
a message. Let me give you a quick story.
28:35
So at First Baptist Hammond we had night bus and if anybody
28:41
from House Anderson knows about night bus, you know the heresy
28:46
that takes place on a night bus. So what would happen is, is in
28:50
the mornings we would go drop the bus kids off and then we
28:54
would go to Burger King for two hours.
28:56
And then we go back and pick up just the teenagers and bring him
28:59
a Sunday night church. Then after Sunday night church
29:02
we take the teenagers home and then on the way from the last
29:07
teenager's house to the bus barn where we dropped off the rental,
29:12
all the and. And by the way, girls usually
29:15
weren't allowed on night bus. It was just the preacher boys.
29:19
And so between the last stop and the bus barn, we would take
29:23
turns and we would all get up and preach and we would yell and
29:26
scream and they were dense on the top of the bus, where we
29:32
would slam our fists against the the, the, the roof of the bus.
29:36
I don't like going to lie. I had a good time.
29:38
But talk about some heresy, right?
29:41
Some stuff that was preached on night buses.
29:45
And this is our podcast, so I can kind of say this without
29:49
getting in too much trouble. I remember, James.
29:53
I preached one particular message and it was called Up
29:57
Yours and What I would get up. And I would say I upped my soul,
30:03
winning up yours. I upped my prayer life.
30:08
Up yours. I upped my Bible, reading up
30:13
yours. And man, it got such a good
30:16
response. Man, they were loving it.
30:18
They were whooping. They were hollering.
30:21
Fast forward a couple weeks. Every once in a while we would
30:24
let the girls on night bus. So the girls get on night bus.
30:29
And I get to thinking, man, I preached that message a few
30:32
weeks ago and I killed it. Now I'm going to preach the same
30:35
message with the girls on the night bus and they're going to
30:38
think it's funny too. So I get up and preach, you
30:41
know, the classic message, up yours again.
30:45
And it didn't go over well. I don't know why.
30:49
Didn't go over well. Every preacher after that took
30:52
their shots at me. Every single one it you know but
30:57
that but that's the kind of stuff that happened on on on on
31:02
night bus OK so now when the. Women were on the night bus.
31:06
Were they allowed to get up and preach as well or no, No, they
31:09
were not. Allowed to get up and breach.
31:10
They were just their hankies. Amen.
31:12
Amen. OK, so.
31:15
But that's the tip of the iceberg of the stuff that
31:18
happened. There were other stuff that
31:19
happened. So, so then, so then I get to
31:21
Bethel and I'm on the bus on a Sunday morning and they want me
31:26
to preach going from the last stop to Sunday morning church.
31:31
So I get up and I preach on the bus like I'm in night bus.
31:35
So I'm hitting the roof of the bus.
31:38
I'm screaming at the top of my lungs.
31:40
And the bus captain is, you know, she's a a a, a woman.
31:46
She was sitting on the front row with a front bus seat with a
31:51
little girl, little girls crying.
31:53
She's trying to comfort the little girl and say, oh, honey,
31:57
he's not, he's not yelling at you, he's not screaming at you.
32:01
But you know, that's what we thought preaching was.
32:05
Just getting up, yelling, screaming, you know, hitting on
32:09
the big points, hitting on your pet peeves, never digging into
32:13
the passage. We just had a flawed concept of
32:15
what preaching was. Absolutely.
32:19
I think so. And I think that's where we get
32:20
to it. We our concept of of preaching
32:23
is so we we heard the amens, we saw the altars full.
32:28
And we thought, if I do this, this is the response.
32:33
And in reality, we understand. Now looking back, it's the
32:37
manipulation that got those responses.
32:39
It wasn't necessarily what they were actually saying or doing,
32:43
right? You're not.
32:44
Trying to faithfully convey the word of God or dig into the word
32:50
of God. You're trying to get your echo
32:52
chamber going. You're trying to get the Amens,
32:55
and that's a successful message if you get a lot of Amens, yeah,
33:00
which leads us into. What is a sermon?
33:02
So what it is, is it's its own unique form of information.
33:07
It's no other. Organization.
33:11
No other conveying of information is done like a
33:15
sermon you are. The goal of a sermon is one word
33:19
is transformation. It's transforming life into
33:23
death into life. It's transforming
33:26
sanctification. You're confrontating, You're
33:29
giving conviction. You're building up.
33:32
Sometimes you're tearing down. You're motivating.
33:36
There's a wow factor to preaching.
33:38
You've heard this wow factor. You've you've sat under it
33:40
before. You've seen men that were used
33:43
by God that would stand up and they would expound the
33:46
Scripture. There's a waking up, There's a a
33:50
firing up for the cause of Christ to go out into to reach
33:53
the World. There's a persuasion.
33:55
First Corinthians 12 talks about persuading those to follow
34:00
Christ. There's a application as we
34:02
talked about. There's exhortation, There's a
34:05
invitation, There's a self examination.
34:09
A sermon is written, written to be declared, not read.
34:14
I thought that was one of the great points that he said is is
34:17
is wrote in a way that is is delivered in a way that brings
34:22
power, that brings God glory, not just simply to be read.
34:27
It is intended to move the listener to a response of the
34:30
truth presented, and it's designed to drive the listener
34:34
to God and to Christ. That's what a sermon is.
34:37
That's what all encompasses of sermon is this holistic view of
34:43
transforming someone's way. They're living into a life that
34:48
is now being brought to Christ. You know, when I preach a
34:54
message, these are the questions I haven't written on a 3 by 5
34:59
card, and I read them before I write any message.
35:03
And these are the five questions that I ask before I write the
35:06
message. Number one, what do they need to
35:09
know? That's information.
35:12
This is the burden that I have to unload.
35:16
I have a burden. And I'm asking what is the
35:18
hidden spiritual truth in this passage?
35:20
I have a burden that I have to unload.
35:24
It's just in me. It's got to come out.
35:26
So number one, what do they need to know?
35:28
That's information #2. Why do they need to know it?
35:35
OK, that's that's motivation. That's the tension that you
35:40
create in your sermon, the motivation behind it.
35:43
Why do you need to know this? Number three, What do they need
35:48
to do? That's application.
35:51
Every sermon has to have some sort of application for it to be
35:55
a sermon, in my opinion. How can I apply this truth to my
36:00
life? How can it change me?
36:02
How can it make me a better Christian?
36:04
How can I better apply the gospel #4?
36:08
Why do they need to do it? And that's that that that's
36:11
inspiration. OK, you know, this is, you know
36:16
the motivation behind it. And then #5, how can I help them
36:19
remember? And that's reiteration.
36:22
So those are some questions that that help me when I write a
36:26
message. But to answer the question, what
36:28
is a sermon? Listen, there's some preachers
36:31
out there. They can get up and preach and
36:33
they're just naturally gifted at just just talking to people, OK?
36:38
They have a they have a a psychology background.
36:41
One person I'm thinking of is Matt Chandler.
36:45
I love to hear Matt Chandler preach.
36:48
I love to. And I've tried to imitate Matt
36:50
Chandler. He is so smart.
36:53
There's no way I can imitate him or be like him because he gets
36:57
into these deep terms and this psychological stuff and I love
37:02
listening to him. Then I know some people dog
37:05
Matt, but I love to listen to Matt preach, but but they can
37:09
get up and do this stuff and and and I can't do that.
37:13
But what I can do is I can get up and I can talk about the word
37:17
of God. I, you know, because that's my
37:19
job. I get up.
37:21
It's my job to exegete the scripture to people, to put it
37:26
into context. What did it mean back then?
37:29
What does it mean to us today? Now, listen, there are some
37:34
people out there, and I know you went to a Steve Lawson
37:39
convention. I love Steve Lawson.
37:42
I've listened to him teach at the Masters seminary.
37:46
I've listened to podcasts. I listened to him.
37:50
He's got a preaching podcast that I've listened to.
37:53
I'd love to hear Steve Lawson teach on preaching, but one,
37:58
one. And I don't know what he said at
37:59
the conference. I didn't go.
38:01
But one thing that I've heard him say in the past is that if
38:05
you're not preaching verse by verse through a book of the
38:09
Bible, you're not doing it right.
38:11
And, you know, there's some people that say that that
38:14
that's, you know, I think you should always be an expository
38:17
preacher no matter what. But I don't think necessarily
38:20
you have to only preach verse by verse through every, you know,
38:27
through a book of the Bible all the time.
38:29
I don't think that's necessary. There are some people that do
38:33
preach verse by verse through every book of the Bible, and
38:36
then they shame and guilt other people that don't.
38:39
And I don't think that's right. Listen, expository preaching is
38:43
something we should all be doing.
38:46
But just because you're not starting at the beginning of the
38:48
book and ending at the end of the book all the time doesn't
38:52
mean that you're wrong. And listen, I get it like
38:55
topical preaching, just jumping around in the Bible, you're
38:59
skipping stuff. I I get that.
39:01
So what what I'm advocating for is contextual preaching.
39:06
Now listen, I do pick a book of the Bible and I'll preach
39:09
through it. I do that all the time.
39:10
I'm not saying don't do that, but I also preach.
39:14
I also preach sermon series where I'll get jump around with
39:18
different passages, different subjects.
39:20
Right now we're going through the book of Jeremiah.
39:22
I'm not preaching verse by verse through the whole of Jeremiah,
39:26
but I'm jumping around into main events in Jeremiah's life and
39:32
and and preaching through that. But when I pick a passage to
39:36
preach, I preach that passage contextually and exegetically.
39:44
Like I still preach verse by verse, but a passage over here
39:48
and a passage over there and I don't think there's there's
39:51
there's anything wrong with that.
39:53
And I also do preach through through books of the Bible.
39:57
I've talked through Philippians last year, this year I'm going
40:01
to preach through another book at at at some point.
40:05
But as long any message, it needs to be contextual.
40:09
That's the, that's the word that I want to focus on.
40:13
It needs to be contextual, no matter what you preach.
40:18
Absolutely. I heard it the other day.
40:20
Like this. Not at Steve Lawson's
40:21
conference, but another conference.
40:23
I was listening to a podcast. A guy said that he thinks there
40:27
should be a spattering of expositional preaching through
40:31
books of the Bible. But also he called it topical
40:34
textualism, which is topics that you're using the text and you're
40:39
preaching the text that it is. And you may not be able to
40:42
preach the whole book in that setting, but you're being
40:44
faithful to the text. You're preaching it the way it
40:47
should be preached. And I thought it was great.
40:49
I think it was an RFP. Maybe it may have been the the
40:52
most recent episode that came out that maybe I heard.
40:57
And So what is, what does the Bible say about preaching?
41:00
Because that's that's part of this whole thought.
41:01
What is a sermon? And I think a good verse for us
41:04
to read right here is First Timothy 4, three first Timothy
41:09
43. Paul talking to Timothy and he's
41:13
charging him in his first letter and he's he's telling him, he's
41:17
saying these are some things that you should do.
41:19
Don't let anyone despise your your youth be an example of your
41:23
speech. And until I come in verse 13, he
41:26
says this until I come. Devote yourself to public
41:29
reading of Scripture, to exhort and to teach.
41:34
Don't neglect the gifts that you've been given.
41:36
And so if we take that right there as a prescription of how a
41:41
sermon should be, it's simply like this.
41:43
It's preaching the text. I'm sorry.
41:46
It's reading the text. It's teaching the text, and it's
41:49
exhorting the text. And we see this all throughout
41:52
Scripture. We see Moses did this.
41:54
We see that Jesus did this. In Matthew chapter 5, Jesus
41:59
reads the text, Jesus explained the text and then Jesus applied
42:03
the text all throughout the sermon on the mount.
42:06
The sermon he gave application as he went through it.
42:09
And I I wrote this statement down because you mentioned
42:12
application. I'm an applicable guy.
42:14
I like to give illustrations and applications.
42:16
And he said one of the things that that Steve said was a
42:20
sermon without an application isn't a sermon at all.
42:23
It's a bridge that takes us to. The application is the bridge
42:28
that takes us to the island of adventure.
42:31
If we don't connect it, then we lead people to a pit.
42:36
That's what application does it. It takes you from where you're
42:39
at to this adventure island where you're able to really
42:43
explore the text. And if not, if you don't ever
42:46
apply it, you lead people into a hole of nowhere because they
42:49
never can see. Spurgeon said that applications
42:53
are the windows to your message. And so as we think through that,
42:57
we begin to think and we begin to see all throughout Scripture
43:00
where this is what when. When Peter got up and preached,
43:04
he got up and he read the text. He said, listen church, listen
43:08
people of Jerusalem. He read the text, He had taught
43:12
the text, and then he explained the text that he just read, and
43:16
he summarized it. He applied it, He exhorted it.
43:19
He began to go through and talk through what the text meant.
43:23
And that's what a sermon is. It's it's unique.
43:25
It's not like anything else we've ever seen or heard or ever
43:28
will see her here. Because a sermon changes and
43:31
transforms life. It's through the preaching of
43:34
the Word that God calls sinners to be saved.
43:38
It's through the preaching of the Word that God calls us from
43:42
death into life. All right, Brett.
43:44
So we've talked about what a sermon's not.
43:46
We've talked about what a sermon is.
43:48
And the last thing, and we'll be finished up here is what does a
43:51
sermon do? What does it do?
43:53
How, how do we understand? Then there's really two thoughts
43:57
here. There's a comprehensive view and
43:59
there's an inadequate view. The first, the first thought is
44:02
a comprehensive view is a sermon addresses the whole person.
44:06
It addresses our mind. It it addresses our affections
44:11
and it addresses our will And when we think through a sermon
44:14
we have to understand that we learn in our mind and and a
44:19
sermon must be must have transfer of information.
44:22
It can't just be that but it's got to be transfer of
44:25
information. It's got to grow the the
44:27
listener's mind. It's got to have some, some,
44:30
some something in the message that someone's going to be able
44:33
to grab onto and say, wow, I didn't know that I need to
44:35
research that more. And one way that I've always
44:39
been taught is is keep the cookies on the bottom shelf.
44:42
But it's OK to throw a little bit of steak out there for those
44:45
who are needing steak. We can't just give a sermon of
44:49
steak because we're going to lose people.
44:51
We've got to keep something on the bottom shelf for those that
44:53
are just baby new Christians that are just growing in their
44:56
faith. And if alls we're doing is
44:58
serving steak dinners, someone's going to starve to death.
45:01
And so a transferring information, giving information
45:04
to the mind and allowing that mind to grow, giving the love in
45:10
the heart. So the affection giving this
45:13
information and showing in the through the text that that this
45:16
is a way that our heart changes and then living it with our
45:20
will. How do we apply this so that
45:22
someone can step out Monday, Thursday, Saturday and take that
45:27
text and apply it in their life? It it addresses and and
45:31
proclaims the whole truth of the Bible.
45:33
Every sermon does this. Every sermon proclaims the whole
45:36
truth of the text. An inadequate view will only
45:40
address one of these issues. It's a sermon that gets up and
45:44
it's just a lecture. It's just a mind meld of
45:47
information. It's a manipulation.
45:50
OK, this is, this is the the emotions where a pastor will get
45:53
up and he'll read a verse of scripture or a word of scripture
45:57
and he'll springboard into a manipulation of emotions and say
46:02
This is why you need to do these things.
46:04
And there's no foundation of text, there's no foundation of
46:07
anything. It's just simply he has a bone
46:10
to pick with someone and so he's using those emotions to drive it
46:14
forward. And then the the last one is is
46:17
it only addresses the will. It's not necessarily addressing
46:21
our mind or emotions and it's just directly affecting what you
46:24
do say where the the legalism that we have been addressing
46:30
since this podcast started and and this is what sermons can do
46:34
if they're done improperly. And so we have to understand
46:37
that that. Yeah, one second.
46:38
We have to understand that that we need training when it comes
46:41
to pastors. We need to understand it's the
46:44
highest calling that's ever been given.
46:45
And in everything we do, Brett, we must drive to be excelling
46:51
and be excellent in our preaching.
46:55
Absolutely, and I agree with what you said.
46:57
I think every sermon needs to have the milk and also needs to
47:02
have the meat. You know, you've got to have
47:06
something for everybody because you've got different people in
47:09
your church listening to you on different maturity levels.
47:13
So you know you have to feed everybody.
47:16
And it's so true. It makes so much sense that the
47:20
inadequate views of preaching only address one of those three
47:25
areas. Like you've got the one that
47:27
only addresses the mind and this is the guy that gets up and he's
47:32
just data dumping. He's just giving you facts.
47:35
He's just giving the information and and not telling you what to
47:39
do with it, not telling you how to apply it.
47:42
Then you've got the other guy that stands up and he plays on
47:45
your emotions and that's all he's there to do.
47:47
He's there to emotionally manipulate you to get you down
47:51
on the invitation, feel that front up, because if he has more
47:55
people on the front of the altar and that means that his sermon
48:00
was successful. So it's just, you know,
48:02
emotional manipulation. And then the guy that gets up
48:06
and just addresses your will, like you said, he's just up
48:09
there just giving you the rule book.
48:11
And it's all legalism. And you have to look a certain
48:15
way for God to accept you. You have to do this.
48:18
You have to do that. You have to follow the rule
48:21
book. And it's all law and it's no
48:24
grace. And we definitely, you know,
48:28
live by the spirit, live by the grace.
48:30
We don't live by the letter of the law.
48:32
And so I think all of these are good points when it comes to
48:35
preaching. Absolutely.
48:38
And I hope that this has helped you and and what we're wanting
48:42
this, this whole episode to do if you've lasted this long, is
48:46
it's not that we're trying to tell you how to preach.
48:47
It's we want you to understand when you walk into a church,
48:51
what should you expect from that pastor?
48:53
What should you expect the information to be given through
48:56
that sermon and how it should be because this is sort of the
48:59
metric that you're going to be able to take and say I've got
49:02
some some guardrails up. I've got some things up that's
49:05
directing me if I if I hear there's some legalism or
49:08
whatever, you're going to have some red flag go up.
49:10
And so this is a way to say, OK, this is what I should expect
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from a pastor and a preacher and what preaching should be.
49:17
And we've, we've tried lining up a couple of interviews.
49:20
They've not worked out for this, this thought of of preaching.
49:25
But we hope this helped and we hope this information, again,
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it's not just coming from us. It's not just me and Brett's
49:31
thoughts. It's it's guys that that we have
49:34
listened to, that we respect in the world of preaching, that
49:37
have done it a whole lot longer than us, that is giving great
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information that have spent their whole life teaching and
49:43
preaching the word of God and so hope this helped today.
49:47
If it did, like I said, share it, give us a like and review,
49:51
but until next time to God, not the.
49:53
Pastor, be the glory found. My new name found that good
50:00
grace. Found that healing.
50:02
And the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning.
50:06
That has no ending. I found that second chance.
50:08
Found my best friend, Found my forgiveness.
50:10
Found my happiness. I've been singing ever since I
50:12
found my feet on me. Thanks for listening to the For
50:29
Freedom podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do
50:32
us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our
50:36
podcast on whichever podcast platform you use.
50:39
Be sure to join us next time for the For Freedom podcast.