Latest / Becoming / Trevor Hanson: Nice Guys vs. Kind Men

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Trevor Hanson: Nice Guys vs. Kind Men · Becoming

0:00
Speaker 1: There's nice guys, and to me, there's kind men. Nice
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Speaker 1: guys people please and they do it out of fear
0:08
Speaker 1: of what people will think.
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Speaker 2: The nice guy is not a safe guy because his
0:14
Speaker 2: motives are self protective.
0:16
Speaker 1: Kind men are going to stand up for truth, and
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Speaker 1: they may hurt someone's feelings, but they're going to stand
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Speaker 1: for what matters and what's true of Okay, everybody, this
0:28
Speaker 1: is above a page. I've got Trevor Hansen here. This
0:31
Speaker 1: is The Fatherhood Movement Podcast, Episode three, and I can't
0:36
Speaker 1: wait to be able to introduce you because Trevor and
0:38
Speaker 1: I have had a call, quite a long call, and
0:41
Speaker 1: I was so stoked because I've been following his content
0:44
Speaker 1: for quite some time now, especially when I was really.
0:47
Speaker 3: Intrigued by this whole attachment theory concept.
0:50
Speaker 1: So, you guys, we've got Trevor who's the author and
0:53
Speaker 1: founder of the Art of Healing, the creator of the
0:56
Speaker 1: Secure Self Club, and he helped people understand their attachment
1:01
Speaker 1: styles to build secure, healthy relationships. And so this is
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Speaker 1: one of the most valuable things I've come across in
1:10
Speaker 1: the last few years of my discovery of this whole
1:12
Speaker 1: new world of healing, and so honestly, you. Ever, I'm
1:15
Speaker 1: just stoked to be able to hear more about how
1:17
Speaker 1: you got into this and how you're helping hundreds and
1:21
Speaker 1: hundreds not just hundreds of people one on one, but
1:25
Speaker 1: ends of hundreds of thousands with your social media following.
1:28
Speaker 3: This is amazing.
1:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you get into it? I'm so glad
1:32
Speaker 2: you're stoked about it because it's something that I feel
1:35
Speaker 2: like when people start to really understand the power behind
1:39
Speaker 2: what we're talking about today, and hopefully we can illustrate
1:41
Speaker 2: this is. I have got this crazy theory that most
1:45
Speaker 2: every relationship challenge, almost every one of them, come down
1:50
Speaker 2: to they could be solved through healing attachment. If you
1:54
Speaker 2: heal attachment, I think most everything else gets solved. And
1:57
Speaker 2: I'm not answering your question, so I'll go back to
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Speaker 2: your question.
2:00
Speaker 1: Oh you know what though, if everything can be solved
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Speaker 1: by knealing attachment, Like, I hope everyone is listening this podcast,
2:06
Speaker 1: you guys are going to not want to miss because
2:09
Speaker 1: I truly believe I have found through my own healing,
2:13
Speaker 1: it's giving me more compassion and empathy for others because
2:17
Speaker 1: of my healing. It's not even that that person's healed,
2:20
Speaker 1: it's my own healing. That's given me more ability to
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Speaker 1: have compassion and love for other people and then to
2:27
Speaker 1: become a more secure person. Like I know, I've still
2:29
Speaker 1: got a long way to go, and so let's let's
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Speaker 1: let's go.
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Speaker 2: Man, let's go. Okay, sweet, Well, I'll tell you how
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Speaker 2: I got into this. I did not know anything about
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Speaker 2: attachment styles or anything in the therapeutic world or anything at all.
2:45
Speaker 2: I was working for Tesla. It's this little company that
2:49
Speaker 2: makes electric cars. Don't know if you've heard of it.
2:51
Speaker 2: But I love my Yeah, perfect you support. I love that.
2:56
Speaker 2: As a stockholder, I thank you. But the I was
3:01
Speaker 2: working at Tesla, and I think most of my life
3:05
Speaker 2: I felt fairly like insecure in certain areas, but I
3:09
Speaker 2: never would have described it that way. I just knew that,
3:11
Speaker 2: like I didn't have a lot of confidence in dating
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Speaker 2: and with girls, and I felt kind of like I
3:16
Speaker 2: didn't belong with guys, and I was always worried. I
3:19
Speaker 2: always felt like really confident professionally, but in these personal
3:23
Speaker 2: areas in my life, I just really didn't feel like
3:26
Speaker 2: I called it like confidence, but really underneath, I think
3:29
Speaker 2: it was deeper, like heavier words would describe it like
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Speaker 2: fears of rejection, fears of abandonment, and fears of not
3:35
Speaker 2: being good enough or not being chosen, or maybe there
3:38
Speaker 2: was a part of me that didn't believe I was
3:40
Speaker 2: good enough, even though there was a part of me
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Speaker 2: that kind of knew that would be nonsense, Like my
3:44
Speaker 2: wisdom told me, like Trevor, you're enough. But then there's
3:46
Speaker 2: this emotional piece that's like stuck and didn't really believe.
3:51
Speaker 2: And so I just felt that way like most of
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Speaker 2: my life. And I think I did things like get
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Speaker 2: a job at Tesla and do all this stuff that
3:59
Speaker 2: made me look like good enough and successful because I
4:02
Speaker 2: wanted people to like finally decide that I was enough. Right,
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Speaker 2: It's like if I accomplish enough, then I will be enough.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm lovable, So I got to
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Speaker 2: be valuable and so I do all of this. But
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Speaker 2: then it led to just like really nasty patterns within
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Speaker 2: specially dating. Like I remember, I got into men who
4:23
Speaker 2: have a more anxious attachment style, which is marked by
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Speaker 2: fears of abandonment and a sense that you're not good enough.
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Speaker 2: Men and women they experience dating and relationships a little different,
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Speaker 2: but the way both are problematic both. All the fears
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Speaker 2: create issues, and my issue was I experienced a lot
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Speaker 2: of like shallow relationships. I wasn't showing up authentically, so
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Speaker 2: people didn't really get to know me. I was trying
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Speaker 2: to people please. I would put too much pressure on
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Speaker 2: relationships too early. I would get rejected because of it.
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Speaker 2: I just experienced so much like loneliness, honestly because of
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Speaker 2: the attachment style, sabotaging the relationships before they even had
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Speaker 2: a chance to go anywhere. Or if I was in
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Speaker 2: a relationship, maybe fears of abandonment or rejection would cause
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Speaker 2: me to be a bit more critical of partners when
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Speaker 2: they didn't soothe my underlying fears, which is not their job,
5:19
Speaker 2: by the way, then I would come out with, you know,
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Speaker 2: ways of critiquing how they showed up as a partner.
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Speaker 2: It should only push them away. And so this all
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Speaker 2: led to one day, not one day, but one relationship
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Speaker 2: is the pivotal crux, the turning point. I had just
5:38
Speaker 2: been laid off from Tesla, I lost my job. I
5:41
Speaker 2: had just recently broken my jaw in a skiing accident,
5:45
Speaker 2: A life lighted off of sun.
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Speaker 3: What was it?
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Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, I can't even think of the name Sundance,
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Speaker 2: No sundance. Yeah, yeah, So I got life lighted out.
5:58
Speaker 2: I didn't need to be, but they didn't know because
5:59
Speaker 2: I was on com and so that happened. So I
6:02
Speaker 2: didn't have a job, I didn't have a functioning jaw.
6:06
Speaker 2: And I had been dating this girl who had her
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Speaker 2: own abandonment, wounding and fears like much more profound than
6:13
Speaker 2: mine were, to the point where those fears resulted in
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Speaker 2: things like trying to control my behavior, limiting who I
6:21
Speaker 2: would see, who I talked to. You know, as is
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Speaker 2: most emotional abuse, it comes from a place of fear
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Speaker 2: and wounding. And so there was just this horrible relationship
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Speaker 2: that I held on to though because I, again I
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Speaker 2: was afraid of somebody. I didn't know if I was
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Speaker 2: going to be good enough.
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Speaker 3: Yep.
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Speaker 2: I held on like I was holding onto a bowl.
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Speaker 2: But you can only ride a bull so long. Nobody
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Speaker 2: lasts forever, and you get kicked off. And I got
6:51
Speaker 2: kicked off, and getting kicked off looked like ending that
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Speaker 2: relationship just so much more hurt and pain and trauma,
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Speaker 2: and and you know, it's pretty rare that you end
7:01
Speaker 2: a dating relationship the last time you see them is
7:04
Speaker 2: sitting in a courtroom. It's only usually Mars where that ends,
7:08
Speaker 2: but that's what ours ended, and all spare you the
7:12
Speaker 2: details of how that's even possible, but that's where we were,
7:16
Speaker 2: and I was like, I got to do something. This
7:21
Speaker 2: is not okay. The months that followed were horrible, waking
7:25
Speaker 2: up from nightmares, thinking about not wanting to be here
7:29
Speaker 2: on earth anymore, having panic attacks like the whole nine
7:32
Speaker 2: yards that I'd never experienced before, honestly. But after that relationship,
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Speaker 2: I started going to therapy and I discovered a world
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Speaker 2: that was incredibly helpful, but also a world where I
7:45
Speaker 2: saw some gaps in how you know, I'm I'm kind
7:48
Speaker 2: of a business minded kind of guy, and I like
7:50
Speaker 2: systems and I like improving things, and I was noticing.
7:52
Speaker 2: I was like, I think I could. I think I
7:54
Speaker 2: could do really well in this industry A because I
7:56
Speaker 2: love it. I love what it's done for me, and
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Speaker 2: I think I could improve some of these processes and
8:02
Speaker 2: how we go about the healing. And so I ditched
8:06
Speaker 2: the whole corporate thing, got a Master's of Marriage and
8:08
Speaker 2: Family therapy, did my own healing, met my beautiful wife,
8:13
Speaker 2: and when I met her, I was much more secure,
8:16
Speaker 2: and so now we have what I would call a
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Speaker 2: one percent marriage. There's one percenters in athletics and those
8:23
Speaker 2: are pro athletes. There's one percenters in you know, the finances,
8:27
Speaker 2: and those are the top income earners. I feel like
8:29
Speaker 2: we've got the one percent marriage now because of all
8:32
Speaker 2: these things, and I help people to do the same.
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Speaker 2: That's a very long version of your answer. Sorry, you
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Speaker 2: know too much.
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Speaker 1: I hope people who are listening you guys, I can
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Speaker 1: resonate with this so much because I believe the reason
8:47
Speaker 1: I became an entrepreneur, if I really think back, after
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Speaker 1: I've done this healing and therapy healing retreats, I became
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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur because I didn't think I was enough. I'm
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Speaker 1: the youngest child. I had a great upbringing, wonderful loving parents,
9:00
Speaker 1: siblings were great, but I was always the baby. I
9:03
Speaker 1: was always just like the kid that was you know,
9:05
Speaker 1: would be playing around and having fun, and it was
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Speaker 1: you know, I've got doctors and lawyers and Dennis in
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Speaker 1: my family, right, Like, what was I going to be?
9:14
Speaker 1: And I knew I didn't want to go that path,
9:16
Speaker 1: and so when entrepreneurship came to me, I was like
9:19
Speaker 1: that's how I'm gonna do it. But in my mind, subconsciously, subconsciously,
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Speaker 1: this was not a conscious decision I wanted to do
9:28
Speaker 1: or make more from a financial compensation standpoint. I think literally, subconsciously,
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Speaker 1: it was not something I wrote down as a goal.
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Speaker 1: It was not and I think it was because of
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Speaker 1: an attachment wound. Then I didn't feel enough, and so
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Speaker 1: I went ahead and didn't, you know, went to the
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Speaker 1: entrepreneur career. And it was fascinating because none of this
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Speaker 1: really hit until my brother he asked a financially related
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Speaker 1: question that was out of respect of where I had
10:00
Speaker 1: had gotten to. And I remember after you asked that question,
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Speaker 1: it dawned on me. It was like everything, like all
10:06
Speaker 1: these memories came up and said, oh my gosh, this
10:09
Speaker 1: is why you went down this path of entrepreneurship.
10:12
Speaker 3: This is why you wanted success.
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Speaker 1: This is why you pushed so hard and you drove
10:17
Speaker 1: so hard. Was you wanted acceptance from your own family?
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Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is ridiculous. I did all of
10:26
Speaker 1: this just for that feeling of acceptance, that that was
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Speaker 1: enough in their eyes. And I know, you know, my
10:35
Speaker 1: network is mostly filled with entrepreneurs, all of us probably
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Speaker 1: have some chip on our shoulder.
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Speaker 2: Everyone like, isn't it patchment wound?
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Speaker 3: And I didn't even know what that was.
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Speaker 1: And then obviously, you know you're talking about feeling more
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Speaker 1: anxious in your relationships.
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Speaker 3: Before that was me. I'm a recovering people pleaser, yep, And.
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Speaker 1: You know, getting to the point where I was losing
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Speaker 1: some of my authentic self because I was people pleasing
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Speaker 1: too much, self sacrificing too much, and not standing for
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Speaker 1: like that truth.
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Speaker 3: And help me clarify.
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Speaker 1: There's nice guys and to me, there's kind men, yes,
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Speaker 1: and I differentiate.
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Speaker 3: See if I'm on the right path.
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Speaker 1: Nice guys people please and they do it out of
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Speaker 1: fear of what people will think and other people's kind
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Speaker 1: men are going to stand up for truth, and they
11:34
Speaker 1: may hurt someone's feelings or they may not be a
11:38
Speaker 1: pleasant you know, but they're going to stand for what.
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Speaker 3: Matters and what's true. And you probably have a better
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Speaker 3: way to describe it.
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Speaker 2: But like, no, I think you're right on. You're right
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Speaker 2: on as you say that the nice guy is not
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Speaker 2: a safe guy, he's not a kind guy. I mean,
11:56
Speaker 2: he's got some kindness in him. I'm sure because I'm
11:58
Speaker 2: not gonna, you know, sell I pass self down the
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Speaker 2: river and be like Trevor, you weren't kind. It's like, yes,
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Speaker 2: of course I still had kindness in me. But the
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Speaker 2: man who is the nice guy versus the kind guy,
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Speaker 2: the nice guy is not the safe one because his
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Speaker 2: motives are self protective. If I can protect myself from
12:17
Speaker 2: rejection and abandonment by manipulating, and this is a hard
12:22
Speaker 2: way of saying it, it's very harsh. Manipulating and deceiving
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Speaker 2: the other person into staying close to me, then I
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Speaker 2: get what I want. I get what makes me feel safe.
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Speaker 2: And so really, what it is people bleasing, is a
12:36
Speaker 2: deceptive strategy to keep people close. And it's like, oh,
12:40
Speaker 2: that's a gut punch, right, And if you're the type
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Speaker 2: of guy does that, then you most likely also deal
12:44
Speaker 2: with shame. So let me address this for a second,
12:47
Speaker 2: because me saying that could bring up all the shame.
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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm the worst. I'm a manipulator. No
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Speaker 2: stop that for a minute. No, no, no, no, no.
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Speaker 1: If you're listening to this, and this is if you're
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Speaker 1: listening and his friends and you're feeling like this is
13:02
Speaker 1: either you, that's resonating or your.
13:04
Speaker 3: Spouse that it's resonating with. Please send this.
13:08
Speaker 1: We want I want this to be out to as
13:11
Speaker 1: many people as possible because what's being taught.
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Speaker 3: I wish I knew.
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Speaker 1: I wish I knew five years ago, ten years ago,
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Speaker 1: I really wish I knew some of this information for
13:22
Speaker 1: my own healing and for the healing of.
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Speaker 3: Those around me. Okay, I'm sorry, I just had to,
13:27
Speaker 3: like I want to shout it from the rooftops.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Good, Well, I'm so glad. So if you're hearing
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Speaker 2: me say that people pleasing or be the nice guy
13:37
Speaker 2: is a deceptive and a bit of a manipulative strategy
13:40
Speaker 2: to keep others close, and you're going into a place
13:43
Speaker 2: of shame, which most likely you could, because I know
13:46
Speaker 2: I felt that way. Part of the wounding is that
13:49
Speaker 2: you don't believe that you're good enough. And so let's
13:51
Speaker 2: stop the shame spiral because we got to address two things. One,
13:54
Speaker 2: we want to be honest and take accountability for the
13:57
Speaker 2: fact that like, wow, yeah, people pleasing is not a
13:59
Speaker 2: good strategy. It's deceptive. I'm agreeing to things that I
14:03
Speaker 2: don't believe in. I'm giving you the right answers. You know,
14:07
Speaker 2: all of that doesn't lead to a sustainable relationship. But
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Speaker 2: number two is it's not that you are defined as
14:16
Speaker 2: this manipulative or deceptive person. If you do that, not
14:19
Speaker 2: at all. You're doing something that behaviorally is manipulative and deceptive.
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Speaker 2: But at its heart there is wounding. You're wounding your
14:28
Speaker 2: fears of rejection and abandon me, your whole, righteous and
14:33
Speaker 2: wonderful desire to have companionship and closeness. That's what's in you,
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Speaker 2: combine with some fear is driving it. And all we
14:42
Speaker 2: need to do is heal the wounding that creates the fear.
14:47
Speaker 2: We don't want to get rid of the good and
14:48
Speaker 2: loving desire for companionship and closeness, keep that around. What
14:52
Speaker 2: we do want to do is heal the wounding so
14:54
Speaker 2: that you take a different strategy. You no longer people please,
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Speaker 2: You do something else. And so that's I feel like
15:00
Speaker 2: I have to throw that into there to combat the
15:02
Speaker 2: shame that comes up with honesty in taking accountability for this.
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Speaker 1: And there's subconscious behavior right like this isn't I don't
15:11
Speaker 1: believe there's much conscious decisions.
15:15
Speaker 3: During that process.
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Speaker 1: So so help people understand too, fear of abandonment. One
15:21
Speaker 1: I have felt, right and and for sure was the
15:25
Speaker 1: cause of my anxious attachment was the fear of abandonment.
15:29
Speaker 3: So what other fears.
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Speaker 1: There's there's a few or fears that almost all of
15:35
Speaker 1: us have at least one.
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Speaker 3: What are those core fears?
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Speaker 2: Well, I'll say this before I started the list, is
15:43
Speaker 2: that they're basically the same thing, just in different words.
15:47
Speaker 2: Because you think about, for example, two of them, fear
15:50
Speaker 2: of abandonment and fear of rejection. Rejection is a form
15:54
Speaker 2: of abandonment, and abandonment is a form of rejection. You
15:59
Speaker 2: just might resonate with words a little bit better. There's
16:02
Speaker 2: also fears of not being enough, And there's a little
16:07
Speaker 2: bit of a difference between the fear of not being
16:08
Speaker 2: enough and the belief that you're not enough. The fear
16:12
Speaker 2: is more like it's kind of up in the air.
16:14
Speaker 2: I might be enough, I might not be enough. People
16:17
Speaker 2: might see me as enough, people might might or might
16:20
Speaker 2: not see me as good enough. I don't know. The
16:22
Speaker 2: jury's out on that one. The belief that you're not
16:24
Speaker 2: good enough is also kind of a mixed bag, a
16:27
Speaker 2: kind of I described right, there was a part of
16:29
Speaker 2: me that knew that I was enough, Like I had
16:31
Speaker 2: a pretty good resume of reasons why people would love me,
16:33
Speaker 2: and I kind of recognized that and I knew that, like,
16:36
Speaker 2: you know, I had infinite worth in the eyes of
16:38
Speaker 2: God and other things like that. But there's also a
16:40
Speaker 2: part of me that doesn't believe I'm not enough, and
16:42
Speaker 2: so usually it comes down the list of things like
16:45
Speaker 2: fears of rejection, abandonment, fears of not being chosen, fears
16:49
Speaker 2: of not being seen, fears of not being enough. You
16:52
Speaker 2: can hear how it's basically the same thing. We categorically
16:56
Speaker 2: summarize them into insecurity fears. These insecurity fears.
17:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is I love this, Okay, so all
17:05
Speaker 1: of us have insecurities.
17:06
Speaker 3: Let's just put that out there.
17:08
Speaker 1: And the hope is that through this healing process we
17:11
Speaker 1: can become more secure. So insecure we're all there and
17:15
Speaker 1: you become more secure is the end goal. And if
17:18
Speaker 1: two secure people or or on the direction of becoming
17:23
Speaker 1: secure people can find each other, that's going to be
17:26
Speaker 1: the healthiest relationship, absolutely assuming.
17:29
Speaker 2: Absolutely well to go for it. Let's sell the benefits
17:33
Speaker 2: of security, and then we'll kind of talk about like
17:35
Speaker 2: how to get there, because I think if somebody is
17:37
Speaker 2: listening to there, It's like, Okay, maybe you're already intrinsically
17:40
Speaker 2: seeing the benefits. But if you're we have to play
17:43
Speaker 2: some hypothetical situations out for a minute. If you're in
17:47
Speaker 2: a relationship and you're married, let's say you've already found
17:49
Speaker 2: your person. If you're secure, by the way, you're going
17:51
Speaker 2: to fast track finding good partners quickly. That and there's
17:57
Speaker 2: many reasons why. But let's pretend you're already in a relationship,
18:01
Speaker 2: and if you struggle with like a conflict dynamic where
18:03
Speaker 2: your partner is maybe a little bit more avoidant, they withdraw,
18:06
Speaker 2: they shut down, kind of turn into a stone brick
18:09
Speaker 2: wall when there's conflict, and that leaves you feeling hurt.
18:13
Speaker 2: And you're the type who's a bit more anxious, You're
18:16
Speaker 2: a bit more pursued in that conflict. You want to
18:18
Speaker 2: solve it right then and there, and you've got the
18:19
Speaker 2: fears of abandonment. You can influence that conflict dynamic and
18:24
Speaker 2: really improve the health of your relationship even if your
18:27
Speaker 2: partner remains insecure, even if your partner is not yet
18:31
Speaker 2: willing to change. And I don't suggest staying in relationships
18:35
Speaker 2: where somebody's not willing to change, but you can start
18:38
Speaker 2: to influence it even if they're not showing up. And
18:41
Speaker 2: I'll describe how. For example, let's say your partner doesn't
18:46
Speaker 2: show you love in a particular way that you were
18:50
Speaker 2: hoping for that would really soothe your own fears of abandonment.
18:54
Speaker 2: If you have those fears of abandonment at present, you're
18:56
Speaker 2: going to be more likely to respond with reactivity. You're
18:59
Speaker 2: going to maybe criticized them, or get upset with them,
19:02
Speaker 2: or do something in protest that's going to activate in them.
19:07
Speaker 2: And by the way, if they're the type of shut
19:08
Speaker 2: down and withdraw they most likely have rejection insecurities. It's
19:12
Speaker 2: going to activate their rejection in securities. They're feeling like
19:14
Speaker 2: they're not good enough for their partner. Oh my gosh,
19:16
Speaker 2: I'm being rejected. So what do they do? They duck
19:19
Speaker 2: and cover. Their protection mechanism like yours, it's based on fear.
19:25
Speaker 2: You just have a different move. You might pursue and
19:27
Speaker 2: try to fix things and criticize. Right, it's trying to
19:30
Speaker 2: like you imagine a frayed rope. You're trying to put
19:32
Speaker 2: the rope back together, and they're just trying to cut
19:34
Speaker 2: it off. They're like, no, no, just cut the thing off, Like,
19:36
Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with this. So instead of
19:40
Speaker 2: responding with that criticism and that pursuit, if you've healed
19:45
Speaker 2: the underlying fears, then you have a lot more of
19:49
Speaker 2: a grounded stance. You're able to come in with more curiosity.
19:52
Speaker 2: You're able to be emotionally regulated and ask them about,
19:55
Speaker 2: you know, maybe why or why they did or why
19:58
Speaker 2: they didn't show up for you in a particular way.
20:00
Speaker 2: You're able to ask for what you need instead of
20:02
Speaker 2: criticize it out of them, and just say, hey, I'd
20:04
Speaker 2: love for you to help me here. It means a
20:06
Speaker 2: lot when you come home on time for dinner. I
20:09
Speaker 2: love that. Can we spend time together here? Versus you
20:12
Speaker 2: never come home on time, you never prioritize me. And
20:16
Speaker 2: so what you do is you just literally eliminated their trigger.
20:19
Speaker 2: And obviously that doesn't take a ton of accountability for them.
20:22
Speaker 2: Eventually they got to catch up and they got to participate.
20:25
Speaker 2: But even in the beginning, you might you might create
20:29
Speaker 2: the momentum that's required to heal your relationship on your
20:32
Speaker 2: own simply because you moving your protective responses removes their triggers,
20:39
Speaker 2: and that why I feel.
20:40
Speaker 1: Like when an individual so a big, big thing here
20:43
Speaker 1: for me. We can't change other people, period, So we
20:47
Speaker 1: can change ourselves. And when we change ourselves, it gives
20:51
Speaker 1: space for the other person to find what they need
20:56
Speaker 1: to heal. And so to me, if you know, I know,
20:59
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there, and marriages are hard,
21:01
Speaker 1: and so people are struggling to keep that connection and
21:05
Speaker 1: they're feeling disconnected emotionally and so then they're not physically connecting.
21:09
Speaker 1: And there's all of these things going on in marriages
21:12
Speaker 1: right now or in partnerships that maybe if they were
21:15
Speaker 1: to just turn around and say, Okay, I'm frustrated at
21:18
Speaker 1: my partner, but I'm going to focus on healing my
21:22
Speaker 1: own attachment wounds, my own childhood traumas, or whatever it
21:26
Speaker 1: is that's going on, and I'm going to become a
21:29
Speaker 1: secure person myself. And as I become a more secure person,
21:35
Speaker 1: how does my partner respond to that? And I'm going
21:39
Speaker 1: to I'm going to get I don't know the percentage,
21:42
Speaker 1: but I hope that there's a larger percentage of people
21:44
Speaker 1: that would recognize and see your changes and say, you
21:48
Speaker 1: know what, I could I could.
21:50
Speaker 3: Use that like I could do my own healing.
21:52
Speaker 1: And to me, that's the hope, is that when people
21:55
Speaker 1: come to me and they're saying, like, how did you
21:57
Speaker 1: how did you go through the divorce, or how did
21:59
Speaker 1: you and keep your faith or how do you stay
22:01
Speaker 1: positive or how are you doing a lot of it
22:04
Speaker 1: was because of this type of healing. And I still
22:06
Speaker 1: have a long way to go. And you brought something
22:09
Speaker 1: up fascint I want to ask a question. So I
22:11
Speaker 1: feel like I was anxious in the fear of abandonment state,
22:17
Speaker 1: but maybe avoidant when it came to the discussion and
22:22
Speaker 1: the hard topics. So and you have both and was
22:27
Speaker 1: there an element of I? Honestly my upbringing, I was
22:30
Speaker 1: just super secure. I felt right, super confident, like it
22:35
Speaker 1: knock to anybody, date anyone, do whatever, like confident, you know.
22:40
Speaker 1: And again I didn't know this security, anxious, avoidant world.
22:45
Speaker 1: And it was like through adult experiences did I even
22:51
Speaker 1: even come up with the fear of abandon And then
22:55
Speaker 1: the discussions because of people pleasing I wouldn't want to
22:59
Speaker 1: have hard discussion as often, or I wouldn't want to
23:01
Speaker 1: bring up my needs as much because that felt like
23:04
Speaker 1: I was being uh, you know, a husband that if
23:08
Speaker 1: I brought up my needs like that's I'm asking for
23:11
Speaker 1: too much, and so I just wouldn't, but then I
23:15
Speaker 1: would like be hurt.
23:16
Speaker 2: So when it didn't, my friend, yeah, yeah, right here.
23:21
Speaker 2: So here's here's what I'm hearing is that we maybe
23:25
Speaker 2: get too connected to the word anxious and avoidant, and
23:29
Speaker 2: if we see avoidance in us, we start describing ourselves
23:31
Speaker 2: as avoidance, where really they're both avoidant. We're both trying
23:36
Speaker 2: to avoid pain, we're trying to avoid rejection, we're trying
23:39
Speaker 2: to avoid abandonment. And you have different strategies on doing that.
23:43
Speaker 2: And so the true blue avoidance they will avoid vulnerability
23:49
Speaker 2: and deeper levels of emotional connection because they're it's kind
23:54
Speaker 2: of one step removed. They're afraid of the rejection and
23:57
Speaker 2: the abandonment, and so they don't even go there. In
23:59
Speaker 2: the first it's like, WHOA, that's a little too scary.
24:02
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that. The anxious they are anxiously pursuing
24:06
Speaker 2: the closeness in an effect of like, let's get in
24:10
Speaker 2: too deep, so you can't leave me, right, You got
24:12
Speaker 2: to prove to me that you love me, and I
24:14
Speaker 2: want that to get so deep so quick, so that
24:16
Speaker 2: like I'm reassured and so different strategies, right, and so
24:20
Speaker 2: in conflict, you'll see the avoidant they because their move
24:26
Speaker 2: is kind of avoid the emotional vulnerability all those things.
24:29
Speaker 2: They just want conflict to blow over. They're like, no, no, like,
24:33
Speaker 2: let's just not talk about it, sweep it under the rug.
24:35
Speaker 2: In dating, they'll go in, you know, a couple months in,
24:39
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden they're pulling back. As
24:41
Speaker 2: soon as commitment starts happening in the relationship, they're a
24:44
Speaker 2: little overwhelmed and they start getting out of there the anxious.
24:48
Speaker 2: In conflict, they'll want to solve it. They'll want to
24:51
Speaker 2: fix it. You got to reassure me that we're okay.
24:54
Speaker 2: This has to be addressed. In dating, they're gonna want
24:58
Speaker 2: commitment more early. They're like checking their text messages every
25:02
Speaker 2: five seconds, making sure that everything's okay. Both will people please,
25:06
Speaker 2: I'll say this multiple people please. They'll avoid conflict, they'll
25:12
Speaker 2: avoid rejection. They'll avoid rocking the boat by telling the
25:16
Speaker 2: other person all the answers that they want to hear, right,
25:19
Speaker 2: even simple things like where do you want to go,
25:21
Speaker 2: you know, for lunch? And you're like anywhere they suggest
25:25
Speaker 2: Indian food and you hate it, and you're like, okay,
25:27
Speaker 2: like let's go. I'm just putting on a happy face.
25:30
Speaker 2: That's probably more of an early relationship. I think if
25:33
Speaker 2: you're in a relationship and that's the level of people
25:35
Speaker 2: pleasing you're you're in big trouble. Yeah, And here's here's
25:39
Speaker 2: the good news of it all. Though people get too
25:42
Speaker 2: wrapped up in trying to diagnose whether they are one
25:44
Speaker 2: or the other. It does not matter. It does not matter. Remember,
25:48
Speaker 2: the core fears are the same, the same set, and
25:53
Speaker 2: what are we working on those core fears? That's what
25:55
Speaker 2: we're addressing. If we can remove things like fears of rejection, abandonment,
25:59
Speaker 2: not being check and improve self worth and replace it
26:02
Speaker 2: with confidence, self respect, hope, security, then the path is
26:08
Speaker 2: the same. That's why I mean my program, the Secure
26:11
Speaker 2: Self Club, it's about helping people become secure, and it's
26:15
Speaker 2: marketed towards the anxious because they're due to their patterns,
26:18
Speaker 2: they're more likely to pursue and look for solutions, and
26:22
Speaker 2: so we market it that way. But we bring in
26:24
Speaker 2: avoidance all the time because it's the same exact process,
26:28
Speaker 2: the same same exact method.
26:30
Speaker 1: I love that you bring that up because it does
26:32
Speaker 1: seem like there's well, you know, somebody classifies themselves like
26:35
Speaker 1: I'm avoidant or I'm anxious, and they feel like they're
26:38
Speaker 1: stuck in this certain this certain mode. But if you
26:41
Speaker 1: if you really think at the core the fire, all
26:43
Speaker 1: of these symptoms are smoke, and so they're dealing with
26:47
Speaker 1: and how they respond is the smoke. But the fire,
26:50
Speaker 1: the real issue are those core fears and they're roughly
26:55
Speaker 1: the same.
26:57
Speaker 3: It's like mind blowing.
26:58
Speaker 1: So okay, So one shout out because I had one
27:02
Speaker 1: of your students reach out to me and say he
27:05
Speaker 1: loved going through your program. And so just so you know,
27:10
Speaker 1: like I've not only have I been following and you
27:12
Speaker 1: and I have had a good conversation, but like I've
27:14
Speaker 1: now heard success stories from people who've worked with you,
27:19
Speaker 1: and I love that. And so anyone listening, if you
27:21
Speaker 1: want to set up a free call with Trevor, We're
27:24
Speaker 1: not done yet, but I'm just giving you the shout out.
27:28
Speaker 1: Just say, hey, Bubba sent me over and he'll get
27:30
Speaker 1: you a free call to be able.
27:31
Speaker 3: To see if it's a right fit or not.
27:33
Speaker 1: Because I just I just feel like it's important within
27:36
Speaker 1: the fatherhood movement dot com you know ecosystem. I want
27:41
Speaker 1: experts like you, Trevor that can truly deeply get into
27:45
Speaker 1: this healing process. And so you know, this is just
27:49
Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you. So okay, if we can
27:51
Speaker 1: dive in, I've got I have so many questions. So
27:54
Speaker 1: is secure attachment something you're born with or is it
27:57
Speaker 1: something I believe you can still build it? But are
28:01
Speaker 1: infants born with secure attachment?
28:05
Speaker 2: No, So secure attachment is attachment is formed. I'm much
28:12
Speaker 2: bigger on the idea that it's nurture over nature. It's
28:17
Speaker 2: much more of a nurture theory in my mind. And
28:20
Speaker 2: it's just because I've seen the evidence I nurture secure
28:24
Speaker 2: attachment into people who have nurtured into them anxious or
28:29
Speaker 2: avoidant attachment. And so the proof is in the putting
28:32
Speaker 2: for me that that's true. There might be some influencing
28:35
Speaker 2: factors where like yes, like epigenetics and trauma history of
28:39
Speaker 2: your family could make you more prone to one attachment
28:43
Speaker 2: style or another. But the good news that I feel
28:48
Speaker 2: like speaking of shouting things from the rooftops, this is
28:51
Speaker 2: one that I always want to show is like you
28:53
Speaker 2: can fully change this. You're not stuck with it. It's
28:55
Speaker 2: not like your height, where it's just like, this is
28:57
Speaker 2: what I am right. We'd all love to us guys
29:01
Speaker 2: love to add a few inches to the top, but
29:03
Speaker 2: like and when it comes to when it comes to this,
29:08
Speaker 2: this is definitely something that you can change.
29:11
Speaker 3: Okay.
29:11
Speaker 1: So if we're talking to the people listening, their ears
29:15
Speaker 1: are perked to, they're at the edge of their seat
29:17
Speaker 1: and they're saying, this is me. Whether they're more of
29:20
Speaker 1: the avoidant or anxious, they're like I'm here, or they're
29:23
Speaker 1: seeing their spouse or whatever it is. What are some
29:26
Speaker 1: of the small practical ways that someone can go from
29:30
Speaker 1: being insecure, whether it's ansure or avoidant, to becoming more secure. Now,
29:36
Speaker 1: I know it's a lot more than just what you're
29:38
Speaker 1: going to give us.
29:38
Speaker 2: But yep, let me give you. If you can remember
29:43
Speaker 2: one sentence that encapsulates the whole concept, that's probably the
29:46
Speaker 2: most important is give yourself what you didn't get. So
29:51
Speaker 2: what I mean by that is most likely there was
29:54
Speaker 2: experiences in your life where you did not get what
29:57
Speaker 2: you needed in order to feel safe. It could be
30:00
Speaker 2: an adult relationship, maybe it was consistency fidelity like whatever
30:06
Speaker 2: it is, but most likely it's kind of connected to
30:09
Speaker 2: earlier like childhood stuff usually, and it's maybe you didn't
30:14
Speaker 2: get consistency or reassurance or validation or things like just
30:19
Speaker 2: somebody to hear you or listen to you if you're
30:21
Speaker 2: the youngest child, kind of fighting for a voice. Maybe
30:23
Speaker 2: that could be one, right for me, I feel like
30:28
Speaker 2: it's always down to there's an unmet emotional need, and
30:32
Speaker 2: when we have the emotional need, it's kind of like
30:34
Speaker 2: our subconscious is always trying to fill the need, and
30:37
Speaker 2: it's anxiously trying to fill the need. Right, I need approval,
30:41
Speaker 2: I need affection. I need to know that I'm enough.
30:44
Speaker 2: And so what you do is you anxiously try to
30:47
Speaker 2: pursue that outcome in your life, in your relationships. And
30:53
Speaker 2: there's like a whole framework for this in our program,
30:55
Speaker 2: we call it a tempo cycle. It's like your cycle
30:57
Speaker 2: of when you're trying to control the outcome. But when
31:00
Speaker 2: you're in that cycle, you're doing just that. You're trying
31:03
Speaker 2: to fill the need through an external source that isn't
31:07
Speaker 2: responsible for filling it, whether it's you know, putting pressure
31:10
Speaker 2: on your partner to reassure you all of the time,
31:13
Speaker 2: or putting pressure on a new relationship to lock it
31:15
Speaker 2: down so that you can feel safe and know that
31:17
Speaker 2: it's okay, right, whatever it is. I would say that
31:21
Speaker 2: you can learn how to give yourself what you did
31:24
Speaker 2: not get and then on top of that, focus on
31:29
Speaker 2: the emotional experience of it. If you just do it
31:32
Speaker 2: to check a box, it's not going to really work.
31:34
Speaker 2: You have to sit in the emotional experience of loving
31:38
Speaker 2: yourself in that deep new way, and that is what
31:41
Speaker 2: will reprogram your attachment style.
31:43
Speaker 1: So if we dig this deeper so every again, and
31:47
Speaker 1: if the common knowledge here is that all of us
31:51
Speaker 1: humans have insecurities, and most of them probably came from
31:56
Speaker 1: some level of childhood emotional need that wasn't met, and
31:59
Speaker 1: maybe in their adult relationships there were some other emotional
32:02
Speaker 1: needs that weren't met. And they're looking at this saying, okay,
32:05
Speaker 1: give what I did not receive. How do they take
32:08
Speaker 1: that one step deeper and say, okay, I'm going to
32:10
Speaker 1: give what I didn't receive. But how do they take
32:13
Speaker 1: that wound and where do they like reach deep inside?
32:18
Speaker 1: Because I know for me, for forty years, I just
32:20
Speaker 1: shoved stuff down I just shoved it down, shoved it down,
32:23
Speaker 1: and I didn't know how to process those feelings. I
32:26
Speaker 1: didn't know that I could release this emotion and do
32:30
Speaker 1: it in a healthy way. And so now I'm looking
32:33
Speaker 1: at it saying, Okay, if a trigger comes to me,
32:36
Speaker 1: that's my body or spirit or God telling me that
32:40
Speaker 1: I have something to work on.
32:42
Speaker 3: So then I think about it.
32:43
Speaker 1: If that trigger happens, I have to think, well, why
32:45
Speaker 1: did that trigger, what was the trigger, why did.
32:48
Speaker 3: It happen, and what am I going to do about it?
32:51
Speaker 1: Whereas before maybe I would react with defensiveness or or
32:57
Speaker 1: you know, trying to protect myself or something, instead of
33:00
Speaker 1: taking a moment to relax, breathe, and then respond, so
33:04
Speaker 1: that respond versus react. So like, if we take it
33:08
Speaker 1: one step further than what you gave us, how do
33:11
Speaker 1: they dig deep to get some of that healing?
33:14
Speaker 2: So let me give you a story to illustrate this.
33:18
Speaker 2: So well, I'll give you a principle first, and then
33:21
Speaker 2: we'll see it play out in this story. So there's
33:24
Speaker 2: many ways of digging deep. One of my favorite ways
33:29
Speaker 2: is to almost see the response. You know, we naturally
33:33
Speaker 2: even speak this way as people. We say, oh, a
33:35
Speaker 2: part of me wants this, and a part of me
33:37
Speaker 2: wants that. Right, Like, let's say you're trying to decide
33:39
Speaker 2: where you go want to go for lunch. You're like, oh,
33:40
Speaker 2: a part of me wants to just throw a caution
33:43
Speaker 2: in the wind and go get some taco bell. Another
33:45
Speaker 2: part of me he does want to eat something healthy,
33:46
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, well, what should I do? So
33:48
Speaker 2: normally we're good at talking in parts. Is so use
33:50
Speaker 2: that to your advantage. There's a part of you, it's
33:53
Speaker 2: not all of you that feels this way, that feels
33:56
Speaker 2: this wounding, that is afraid of rejection, abandonment, and so on.
34:00
Speaker 2: We might call it the inner child. I like to
34:03
Speaker 2: call it that because it's it helps me see that
34:05
Speaker 2: part of me with compassion. Right. Little kids are just
34:08
Speaker 2: so easy to love. They're so easy to love, whether
34:11
Speaker 2: they are being little monsters or not, like even their
34:14
Speaker 2: little monster stage. I got a two year old. I mean,
34:16
Speaker 2: he can be crazy as can be, and I think
34:19
Speaker 2: can be very frustrated, but he's still so dang lovable.
34:21
Speaker 2: He's very easy to love because he's just so you know,
34:24
Speaker 2: innocent and small. And so if it helps a start
34:26
Speaker 2: seeing that part of you as a part that you
34:29
Speaker 2: can hold some compassion for. It's not your enemy. Maybe
34:33
Speaker 2: that part of you has created some issues in your relationships,
34:35
Speaker 2: and so you might feel like it's your enemy, but
34:36
Speaker 2: it's not. It's just a wounded part. And so that's
34:41
Speaker 2: I guess step number one. If you're making a framework
34:44
Speaker 2: for yourself, see the wound as a part of you
34:48
Speaker 2: that you can hold compassion for. And then number two
34:51
Speaker 2: is build a loving relationship with that part and more specifically,
34:58
Speaker 2: give that part what it didn't get and let me
35:01
Speaker 2: give you. Let me give you an example that illustrates
35:04
Speaker 2: this concept. I was sitting in Chick fil A one day,
35:06
Speaker 2: eating the Lord's chicken, right, and We're just there on
35:10
Speaker 2: a lunch break, and I'm watching I'm in a booth,
35:15
Speaker 2: and I'm across from a booth, and there's a dad
35:17
Speaker 2: with his daughter and his daughter's going in speaking of fatherhood.
35:20
Speaker 2: This guy was a rock solid dad. His daughter was
35:23
Speaker 2: about four. He was going She was going in and
35:25
Speaker 2: out and in and out of the playground and having
35:27
Speaker 2: a good time, you know, to the point where she's
35:29
Speaker 2: like so sweaty, her hair is sticking to her face.
35:32
Speaker 2: She's eating a chicken nugget and then running back living
35:35
Speaker 2: the best life that a four year old could want.
35:38
Speaker 2: If I could rewind time, maybe four for a day,
35:40
Speaker 2: I think I'd go hang out with her and do
35:41
Speaker 2: that that looked awesome. And you know, the time comes
35:46
Speaker 2: when it's time to leave, and dad gives the horrible
35:48
Speaker 2: news that it's time to go, and what happens for
35:51
Speaker 2: her is what should happen for a four year old.
35:54
Speaker 2: She starts having a little bit of a meltdown. But dad, oh, Dad, no,
36:00
Speaker 2: and she starts saying things that are totally irrational, as
36:03
Speaker 2: she should. She's four. I don't expect her to do
36:06
Speaker 2: anything other than this. And she says, bet dad, we're
36:08
Speaker 2: gonna never come back, and Dad, you're being so mean,
36:14
Speaker 2: and a few other things. But those are the two
36:16
Speaker 2: I remember and what Dad did. And I want you
36:20
Speaker 2: to imagine that she is the wounded internal part of
36:23
Speaker 2: you that's irrational. She's fearful, she's shouting, we're never coming back.
36:28
Speaker 2: Nobody's gonna love us. You know, she said we're never
36:31
Speaker 2: coming back. But maybe you start feeling like I'm never
36:33
Speaker 2: going to be good enough. Dad's being so mean, other
36:35
Speaker 2: people are rejecting me. It all. It kind of sounds
36:38
Speaker 2: the same. And what he does, instead of ignoring her,
36:42
Speaker 2: pushing her to the side, ripping her out of the
36:45
Speaker 2: playground with you know, by the wrist, as we've seen
36:48
Speaker 2: unfortunately in public, sometimes he leans over and he goes, oh, sweetie,
36:54
Speaker 2: you're afraid right now. Just that alonevalidates her. And she's like, yeah,
37:03
Speaker 2: and I don't want to go, and he goes, yeah,
37:06
Speaker 2: you don't want to go, and he just starts repeating
37:08
Speaker 2: back to her fears. You feel like we're never coming back.
37:11
Speaker 2: You feel like dad's being so mean, and he just
37:14
Speaker 2: validates her fears, not agreeing with them, but he just goes, oh,
37:18
Speaker 2: I get it. I get why you feel that way.
37:21
Speaker 2: That's so scary. I see that. And this is step
37:26
Speaker 2: number one. Take that part of you and just validate
37:29
Speaker 2: what's going on. Maybe you close your eyes and you
37:31
Speaker 2: just focus on that part of your heart and you
37:34
Speaker 2: go Trevor, it feels like they're going to like reject
37:38
Speaker 2: you or not let you. I get that, I understand that.
37:41
Speaker 2: So that's step number one. Let me pause before I
37:43
Speaker 2: continue my story and give you some breathing room here.
37:46
Speaker 1: You know what it just I mean, this is so
37:50
Speaker 1: wonderful to hear is how many of us have been
37:52
Speaker 1: in a circumstance in a relationship where someone is throwing
37:56
Speaker 1: a tantrum and do we match their energy? Do we
38:01
Speaker 1: match their energy and push back and fight back and
38:04
Speaker 1: defend or take it personally and like that. You know,
38:08
Speaker 1: I love that you bring it up with the little
38:10
Speaker 1: child because knowing that that little child is throwing a tantrum,
38:15
Speaker 1: we just we get it.
38:16
Speaker 3: We have this compassion for them. We just been like.
38:19
Speaker 1: Almost have a little smile, not a smirk, but a
38:22
Speaker 1: smile of like, oh honey, I just love you so
38:25
Speaker 1: much and you're just having a hard day, like and
38:29
Speaker 1: that validation. How many times have we not given the
38:35
Speaker 1: validation that person needed? I know, for I'm guilty. I'm
38:39
Speaker 1: so guilty of not feeding what they needed in that
38:44
Speaker 1: moment and instead taking it personally.
38:46
Speaker 3: And I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed by how.
38:49
Speaker 1: Many times I probably looked at that antrum, you know,
38:53
Speaker 1: and me feeling like it was daggers being thrown and
38:57
Speaker 1: instead of like, instead of like taking those taggers and
39:02
Speaker 1: knowing that it really wasn't, I shouldn't have taken it personally.
39:07
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have gotten defensive and I should have validated. Man,
39:10
Speaker 1: it's this is These are just concepts. I just hope
39:14
Speaker 1: so many people can see and it works both on
39:16
Speaker 1: the male and female side.
39:18
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter, Okay, so keep going with the story.
39:21
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yes, of course. And you know, I love
39:24
Speaker 2: how you're You're even extending what I'm saying out to
39:27
Speaker 2: an external party, because yeah, they everyone has their own
39:31
Speaker 2: inner child that's throwing the tantrum, and sometimes we see
39:35
Speaker 2: it come out on their external behavior. But we also
39:40
Speaker 2: have our own internal child, right we have the little
39:43
Speaker 2: girl at the or little boy at the Chick fil
39:46
Speaker 2: a playground who doesn't want to leave, who's afraid. Maybe
39:49
Speaker 2: it's that moment when your partner goes silent and the
39:51
Speaker 2: tantrum starts internally for you. Or maybe it's the moment
39:55
Speaker 2: where you don't get that text back and you're waiting
39:57
Speaker 2: for it and you're so worried, and oh, there goes
39:59
Speaker 2: the tantrum. The inner child is in there, or the
40:03
Speaker 2: feeling of your insecure attachment style, and that's all that
40:06
Speaker 2: it is. It's just a little wounded part of you
40:08
Speaker 2: that needs some love. And if we can love that
40:10
Speaker 2: part of us, like the dad did in the story.
40:13
Speaker 2: Then we will start to heal that part of us
40:16
Speaker 2: because we show that internal self, that little child, that
40:21
Speaker 2: there is a new source of safety, and it's me.
40:24
Speaker 2: It's not something external, it is me. You got it
40:27
Speaker 2: with you all the time, Little Trevor. He trusts Big
40:30
Speaker 2: Trevor so much now he's I've got his back. He's
40:34
Speaker 2: so safe in there. He's just like living his best life,
40:36
Speaker 2: having a good time. He's in the backseat of the car.
40:39
Speaker 2: He's never trying to drive now, when my little inner
40:42
Speaker 2: child used to try to drive all the time. So
40:44
Speaker 2: what do we do next? Dad validates the little girl.
40:48
Speaker 2: I see it, I get why you feel that way,
40:51
Speaker 2: and her trust goes way up with Dad and her
40:54
Speaker 2: walls go way down. He's seeing her. She knows that
40:57
Speaker 2: she's not going to try to convince Dad to see
40:59
Speaker 2: her reality because he's already getting it. It's like, sweetie,
41:02
Speaker 2: I get it. I'm totally there with you. I'm right here.
41:05
Speaker 2: I see it.
41:05
Speaker 3: I love that. You know.
41:07
Speaker 2: It's not just there's no monsters in the closet. Buck up,
41:09
Speaker 2: it's I'm going.
41:10
Speaker 3: In an amazing tip too.
41:12
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this works for a don't relationships
41:16
Speaker 1: with our kids, with ourselves like, oh my gosh everything.
41:21
Speaker 2: So step number two, though, is that you can't live
41:23
Speaker 2: in validation forever or else you get stuck, just like
41:26
Speaker 2: the inner child. And so what he then needs to
41:29
Speaker 2: do is invite her to consider truth because he has
41:34
Speaker 2: truth and his truth provides safety for her. He says, sweetheart,
41:38
Speaker 2: can I tell you some things that might be helpful?
41:41
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, sure, because she bought in some trust.
41:43
Speaker 2: And he goes, look at these chairs. Do they look
41:47
Speaker 2: very comfy? And you want to sleep on here tonight?
41:50
Speaker 2: And she goes, no, home, kind of almost laughs at dad,
41:52
Speaker 2: and he says, and you remember your princess bed that
41:55
Speaker 2: we just got you that's at home and it's got
41:56
Speaker 2: the Elsa cover and it's so cute. And she's like, well, yeah,
41:59
Speaker 2: he said you get to go home and sleep there,
42:01
Speaker 2: And so I want to take you home, not to
42:03
Speaker 2: make it sad, but to make it so you can
42:05
Speaker 2: sleep on your cozy bed. And she starts to realize, WHOA,
42:08
Speaker 2: Dad's got a good point. That's pretty cool. And then
42:11
Speaker 2: she's further convinced when Dad says, Mom is waiting for
42:16
Speaker 2: you at home and she's so excited to see you.
42:18
Speaker 2: Do you want to go see her? And she goes, well,
42:19
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I'm actually excited to see mom and show her,
42:22
Speaker 2: you know, the thing I did at school. And one more,
42:25
Speaker 2: he says, we're never coming back. You know that's not true,
42:28
Speaker 2: because we come back for your cousin's soccer games, and
42:31
Speaker 2: your cousin's going to have one later this week, so
42:33
Speaker 2: we're just definitely coming back. And she's starting to realize,
42:36
Speaker 2: dang dad has so much truth that provides safety. If
42:41
Speaker 2: you were to speak to your owner and her child,
42:43
Speaker 2: maybe it's reassuring the truth that's like, hey, if this
42:45
Speaker 2: person rejects you, you have so many other people that
42:48
Speaker 2: love you. Hey, if this date doesn't work out, like
42:52
Speaker 2: God's going to be there for you at the end
42:53
Speaker 2: of the day. It's like all the truth that you
42:56
Speaker 2: know you have. So he gives her truth and then
42:59
Speaker 2: he makes it in invitation. So step number one, validate
43:02
Speaker 2: number two, reveal truth number three. If you were to
43:04
Speaker 2: put this in a framework, is invitation invitation? Okay, So
43:10
Speaker 2: how about we do this instead instead of worrying all
43:13
Speaker 2: night about getting that text message back, instead of getting
43:15
Speaker 2: critical with your partner, instead of X, Y, and Z
43:17
Speaker 2: all the anxious responses you could have, Let's do this instead.
43:21
Speaker 2: And he says, let's go home, Let's go see mom.
43:24
Speaker 2: She leads out the door. He's not ripping her out.
43:28
Speaker 2: She goes right and they get in the car, they
43:31
Speaker 2: go home, and I'm like, dang, that was the coolest
43:33
Speaker 2: thing I've ever seen. And what happened there too, is
43:36
Speaker 2: that wasn't just a one time win for dad. Dad
43:40
Speaker 2: built a foundation of safety. He created an emotional experience
43:45
Speaker 2: for her that she will remember in her nervous system
43:49
Speaker 2: that says, leaving Chick fil A is safe, Trusting Dad
43:53
Speaker 2: is safe. I am good to do that. The same
43:56
Speaker 2: thing will happen for you and your inner child. The
43:59
Speaker 2: more you do this repetition, you can visualize it, you
44:03
Speaker 2: can speak it out loud, you can close your eyes,
44:06
Speaker 2: access that party, you can write letters to your inner child.
44:09
Speaker 2: It's that interactive experience where you provide safety, not once,
44:13
Speaker 2: but over and over and over, and then you will
44:16
Speaker 2: one day have a relationship like I have with my
44:19
Speaker 2: inner child. He's my bud, he trusts me.
44:22
Speaker 1: I love this you, guys. I've found is the inner
44:25
Speaker 1: child stuff. When I first heard about it. It was all
44:27
Speaker 1: woo woo to me.
44:28
Speaker 3: Right, it was just kind of like weird and woo woo.
44:31
Speaker 1: And then I had a good friend of mine, Henry Amar,
44:33
Speaker 1: who walked me through this kind of the first experience.
44:36
Speaker 3: He's a great guy, right, Yeah, I love memory and
44:40
Speaker 3: we'll have mombod no, no question.
44:42
Speaker 1: But it's something that when he introduced my inner child
44:46
Speaker 1: and he helped me to remember some experiences of my
44:49
Speaker 1: childhood that like we're triggering, and that little child was
44:52
Speaker 1: really trying to protect me.
44:53
Speaker 3: You said drive. I love that visual.
44:56
Speaker 1: The little child in me when triggered, was trying to
44:58
Speaker 1: drive me as an adult. And this is like a
45:01
Speaker 1: seven or a twelve year older, a fifteen year old
45:04
Speaker 1: child trying to drive me forty two years old.
45:09
Speaker 3: You know, it's like wait a second.
45:11
Speaker 1: And when he started to put those pieces together and
45:14
Speaker 1: that I was almost able to like communicate with this little.
45:17
Speaker 3: Child, you know, my other version of myself. Whatever.
45:21
Speaker 1: That healing, and it has come in layers. It wasn't
45:25
Speaker 1: just all at one time, but it's like an onion
45:27
Speaker 1: pulling back the layers. It made such a drastic difference
45:33
Speaker 1: when a trigger would come and I had this psychological understanding. Now,
45:38
Speaker 1: look to me, Jesus is the ultimate healer, right, His
45:41
Speaker 1: atoning sacrifice is the healing component we all need. But
45:47
Speaker 1: I was naive enough to not realize I needed the
45:53
Speaker 1: security of God's justice and his mercy of the atonement.
45:57
Speaker 1: But then I needed the psychological component of attack, healing, attachment, childhood, wound,
46:03
Speaker 1: those combined is what That's what did it for me.
46:08
Speaker 1: That's what's doing it for me. And I like, it's
46:13
Speaker 1: one of those pieces where like we all love, we
46:16
Speaker 1: know we need Jesus, but I needed this other component.
46:19
Speaker 1: So all right, you're excited, let's go.
46:21
Speaker 2: Oh man when you say that this is okay. So
46:26
Speaker 2: people come in and work with us of all sorts
46:28
Speaker 2: of faiths. But I always tell those who know the
46:32
Speaker 2: Savior that if healing were a competition, you would have
46:35
Speaker 2: an unfair competitive advantage to healing, because you know the
46:38
Speaker 2: ultimate healer. And here's part of why. Speaking of the
46:42
Speaker 2: visual that we have right now of this inner child
46:45
Speaker 2: and that we're building a relationship with them, how much
46:48
Speaker 2: more important is it that you use that foundation of
46:52
Speaker 2: trust that you're building with you and the inner child
46:54
Speaker 2: to introduce the inner child to the Savior, and maybe
46:59
Speaker 2: that child was never introduced to God or to the
47:03
Speaker 2: Ultimate Healer from a lens that didn't include shame. But
47:07
Speaker 2: you get to do it. I would imagine it. I
47:10
Speaker 2: would visualize taking little Trevor before Christ and saying, he
47:18
Speaker 2: is even better than I am. You think what we've
47:22
Speaker 2: got going on is good? Just you wait, all of
47:25
Speaker 2: the pain and all the things I deal with as
47:27
Speaker 2: an adult, I give them to him. See those hands,
47:31
Speaker 2: See how those are scars there. I'm almost imagining I'm
47:34
Speaker 2: talking to little Trevor. I'm like, that's a sign that
47:37
Speaker 2: you put all of your burdens there. That's where you
47:39
Speaker 2: put them, and he takes care of them. And like
47:41
Speaker 2: to really have the experience of like And a lot
47:44
Speaker 2: of people grow up not feeling like, you know, their
47:47
Speaker 2: six ten, twelve year old self was ever introduced to
47:49
Speaker 2: God without shame. Oh my goodness, you get to rewrite
47:53
Speaker 2: that completely. And so more important than even just building
47:57
Speaker 2: that relationship with you and them is use that foundation
48:01
Speaker 2: of trust to introduce the wounded part of you, that
48:04
Speaker 2: inner child, to the Ultimate Healer, and you will accelerate
48:09
Speaker 2: your healing like you have never experienced before.
48:11
Speaker 3: I love that. I love it. I honestly, I was stuck.
48:16
Speaker 1: I was stuck in a state of mind and I
48:18
Speaker 1: was leading with God. I was fasting, I was diving
48:21
Speaker 1: into the scurtures. And it wasn't until I was on
48:24
Speaker 1: a phone call with the therapist a zoom and it
48:27
Speaker 1: was like I was in the depths of hell. I
48:31
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, during one of the lowest moments
48:33
Speaker 1: of my life. And I remember I remember verbally saying
48:37
Speaker 1: to him saying like until I know what God needs
48:43
Speaker 1: me to do, or like I feel like I'm going
48:46
Speaker 1: to be stuck here until I recognize and do what
48:49
Speaker 1: God needs me to do. And in that moment, I'm
48:54
Speaker 1: not even getting In that moment, I was. I was
48:57
Speaker 1: almost like I could see a vision or a dream
48:59
Speaker 1: like daydreaming while I was on the zoom call with him, and.
49:04
Speaker 3: I could see this this other person as a little.
49:07
Speaker 1: Child, And as I was seeing, I had this compassion
49:12
Speaker 1: just like as if it was my own daughter. I
49:14
Speaker 1: had this compassion, this unique compassion and an empathy for
49:21
Speaker 1: the things that that person had possibly been through. And
49:24
Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself like, oh my gosh, like
49:27
Speaker 1: I have this compassion.
49:28
Speaker 3: And then big and Bold went across my eyes.
49:32
Speaker 1: You know, this dream daydream was the word charity, and
49:38
Speaker 1: in my mind's eye, I saw this huge just charity
49:42
Speaker 1: right across my face and it was like, oh my gosh,
49:46
Speaker 1: I am supposed to have charity for these other people,
49:51
Speaker 1: this other person, and to me, charity is the true,
49:55
Speaker 1: the pure love of Christ. Like until I receive that
50:02
Speaker 1: testimony in my own soul, I will be stuck in
50:07
Speaker 1: this purgatory, in this in this low depth depression, anxiety,
50:12
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. And I know this
50:14
Speaker 1: is just my experience and I'm not saying this is
50:16
Speaker 1: how everyone's going to experience it, but like for me,
50:19
Speaker 1: that was the wake up call and when a trigger
50:22
Speaker 1: would come, that memory would pop back into my mind
50:26
Speaker 1: and it soothed my My reactions became more of a
50:30
Speaker 1: response and a thoughtful response. And even sometimes if the
50:36
Speaker 1: reaction came and I had to write a texture, I
50:39
Speaker 1: would not send it. I would write it, get whatever
50:43
Speaker 1: you know had to come out, and then I'd look
50:46
Speaker 1: at it a few hours later and be like, Okay,
50:49
Speaker 1: elite that and come back with a much more healthy response.
50:54
Speaker 3: And I am so grateful.
50:57
Speaker 1: I feel like it was a huge blessing from heaven
51:00
Speaker 1: to be able to have that experience because and I
51:02
Speaker 1: still remember it so vividly, and I hope I always
51:05
Speaker 1: remember this when a trigger comes, having this moment of reflection,
51:11
Speaker 1: to be able to find the deeper healing that I'm
51:14
Speaker 1: I will forever seek and for me, that's Jesus and
51:19
Speaker 1: so and I know we have listeners of all different
51:22
Speaker 1: types of faiths, but and hopefully I know they respect
51:26
Speaker 1: mine and I respect theirs, and so man, I just thank.
51:30
Speaker 3: You for sharing this stuff.
51:31
Speaker 1: And one last, maybe I one last question before I
51:34
Speaker 1: know our time.
51:35
Speaker 3: Is running out.
51:37
Speaker 1: I wanted to hit on two little pieces. Okay, just
51:42
Speaker 1: kind of tie the sin. So if people are listening
51:45
Speaker 1: and they're thinking, okay, please recognize that we all have insecurities,
51:50
Speaker 1: you and your partner, spouse, And if you could do
51:55
Speaker 1: short stint on what are those insecure patterns? How are
52:00
Speaker 1: they sabotaging an otherwise good relationship? And then for the
52:06
Speaker 1: other on the flip side, I know that's a negative,
52:07
Speaker 1: and I don't want to end on a negative, So
52:12
Speaker 1: how is that sabotaging an otherwise good relationship to then
52:18
Speaker 1: flipping that on its head and saying we're going to
52:21
Speaker 1: become secure. So let's let's start with just the negative
52:24
Speaker 1: side of it.
52:25
Speaker 3: Of some of the sabotage.
52:27
Speaker 2: So how these insecurities and this kind of touches based
52:30
Speaker 2: on a little bit of what we mentioned throughout here,
52:33
Speaker 2: It's going to show up differently whether you're single and
52:37
Speaker 2: seeking to be in a relationship or in a relationship.
52:40
Speaker 2: We'll kind of play it out through the story as
52:42
Speaker 2: if we'll start from single. If you're single, you're going
52:45
Speaker 2: to experience that fear, and that anxiety is going to
52:47
Speaker 2: sabotage your opportunities for connection, just based on the fact
52:51
Speaker 2: that you're probably going to show up inauthentically because you're
52:53
Speaker 2: going to be in people pleasing mode. They're not going
52:55
Speaker 2: to get to know who you are, and if they
52:57
Speaker 2: never get to know who you are, then you can't
52:58
Speaker 2: develop depth with them. Also, you're more likely to ignore
53:02
Speaker 2: red flags, ignore things in partners that aren't very good
53:07
Speaker 2: for you, because that fear drives you to move forward,
53:11
Speaker 2: and so that can lead to, you know, because some
53:13
Speaker 2: catastrophic outcomes down the road, Especially if you're a man,
53:17
Speaker 2: you're going to men experience a lot more rejection as
53:20
Speaker 2: anxiously attached women. They'll get further into the relationship and
53:23
Speaker 2: then realize that there's unhealthy dynamics because they were willing
53:27
Speaker 2: to like commit to the relationship a little bit too much,
53:30
Speaker 2: or this and that. But men will experience a lot
53:32
Speaker 2: more rejection if they're insecure, because confidence is a signal
53:38
Speaker 2: for safety, and they're not giving that signal when they're
53:41
Speaker 2: in their insecurity. But then if you're in a relationship,
53:46
Speaker 2: then if you have these underlying fears of things like abandonment,
53:50
Speaker 2: then whether consciously or not, you are putting your charge,
53:55
Speaker 2: your partner in charge of soothing those fears, which is
53:58
Speaker 2: not their responsibility. And quite franks, they can't do it.
54:01
Speaker 2: You've been trying to soothe them your whole life and
54:03
Speaker 2: they're still there. And when your partner fails to do that,
54:07
Speaker 2: and it could be they overtly are not treating you
54:12
Speaker 2: well or they're just missing something because they're a normal
54:15
Speaker 2: human being and they're going to miss the mark either way.
54:18
Speaker 2: Most likely, because you're in your fear, in your anxiety,
54:21
Speaker 2: you're going to seek correction through criticism, through something that
54:27
Speaker 2: looks more like harsh. It's not gentle or petitioning, it's
54:31
Speaker 2: a lot more harsh, which is going to create conflict dynamics,
54:35
Speaker 2: or you just flat out ignore it, brush everything under
54:38
Speaker 2: the rug because you're afraid of getting rejected, and then
54:41
Speaker 2: you feel lonely, isolated and hurt until one day you
54:44
Speaker 2: eventually do blow up and they're surprised because they didn't
54:46
Speaker 2: even know what was going on underneath the surface there.
54:49
Speaker 2: So that's one version of this that where people really
54:53
Speaker 2: get stuck. It's conflict, attracting the wrong partners, staying for
54:57
Speaker 2: too long. But the flip side is beautiful, and this
55:01
Speaker 2: is the positive note. And I know this is possible
55:04
Speaker 2: for people to achieve this because this is one hundred
55:06
Speaker 2: percent what we do over and over and over again.
55:09
Speaker 2: Not to plug or anything. But if you look at
55:11
Speaker 2: our website, you watch the testimonials, they tell the story.
55:14
Speaker 2: They tell the story of what I just told you.
55:16
Speaker 3: I was this.
55:17
Speaker 2: I was that I was stuck in these relationships. I
55:19
Speaker 2: was finding avoidant partners all the things, and then it's
55:23
Speaker 2: but then everything changed, and here is the result, and
55:28
Speaker 2: it's real. The result is when you become secure, you
55:32
Speaker 2: have this self respect and deep sense of confidence to
55:34
Speaker 2: voice what you need early. So you're ruling out the
55:38
Speaker 2: partners who aren't good for you, and you're ruling in
55:40
Speaker 2: the ones who are. You're setting boundaries. People know how
55:43
Speaker 2: to treat you and respect you, and the ones who
55:45
Speaker 2: are healthy are going to be grateful for it. And
55:47
Speaker 2: so you're already establishing something strong there. You're attractive because
55:52
Speaker 2: you're confident that attraction. Those healthy dynamics lead to healthy
55:57
Speaker 2: commitments that aren't based on fear but respect and the
56:01
Speaker 2: desire for closeness. And when things aren't perfect, because they
56:05
Speaker 2: definitely will not be perfect, you don't, you know, show
56:09
Speaker 2: up in the way you want your partner doesn't. It
56:11
Speaker 2: doesn't lead to this all out fallout of conflict. You
56:15
Speaker 2: can remain grounded. Their quote unquote bad behavior or their
56:20
Speaker 2: miss doesn't trigger in you this spiral fear of abandonment.
56:26
Speaker 2: It might bring up a little bit of that fear,
56:28
Speaker 2: you're able to remain present and curious and compassionate, and
56:32
Speaker 2: you can work through it, and you can work towards repair,
56:36
Speaker 2: because repair is what really makes healthy relationships. It's not
56:39
Speaker 2: the lack of conflict, it's the presence of repair. You're
56:41
Speaker 2: way better at repairing. And so this is why my
56:44
Speaker 2: theory is that and I wrote a short, little ebook
56:47
Speaker 2: about this. But my theory is that insecurities drive almost
56:52
Speaker 2: all of the negative patterns that we see in relationships,
56:56
Speaker 2: and security is the ultimate antidote.
56:59
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that, Trevor. This is good, good stuff.
57:04
Speaker 1: We can talk about this for hours and hours. I
57:07
Speaker 1: hope all you friends who are listening, like take this
57:10
Speaker 1: to heart. Share it please with those around you, your girlfriends,
57:14
Speaker 1: your guy friends, your spouse, your family. All of us
57:17
Speaker 1: have these insecurities. We all need to become more secure,
57:21
Speaker 1: and it will benefit every type of relationship you have
57:24
Speaker 1: around you as you become more secure yourself. I know
57:28
Speaker 1: that's my goal personally, and it's a non negotiable in
57:33
Speaker 1: my pursuit as a single man, like to have someone
57:36
Speaker 1: at least working towards this goal. Absolute, non non negotiable,
57:41
Speaker 1: and so it's I just think it's a critical component.
57:44
Speaker 3: So okay, Trevor, where can people find you? Where should
57:47
Speaker 3: they go?
57:48
Speaker 1: Yeah?
57:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you go to Instagram or sik talk
57:52
Speaker 2: or anywhere else, The Art of Healing by Trevor is
57:55
Speaker 2: my name. So yep, if you type in the art
57:58
Speaker 2: of healing, I'll probably be the first one to pop up.
58:00
Speaker 2: Or you just type in my name and it'll probably
58:02
Speaker 2: pop up to the website is the same. The Art
58:04
Speaker 2: of Healing by Trevor dot Com and then Bubba. Like
58:08
Speaker 2: you mentioned, people can book a call to like learn
58:11
Speaker 2: about what we do and see if our program is
58:13
Speaker 2: the right fit for them. If you do that, yeah,
58:16
Speaker 2: mention in your form there that you just found me
58:19
Speaker 2: on Bubba's podcast. Tell the person who who you're chatting
58:24
Speaker 2: with about the program, and we'll make sure to take
58:28
Speaker 2: extra special care of you because Bubba's a good friend
58:31
Speaker 2: of ours.
58:31
Speaker 3: And so yeah, you can go.
58:32
Speaker 2: And that would probably be the best next step for
58:35
Speaker 2: anybody who's like, oh, I'm curious if you could help
58:37
Speaker 2: me the call. The calls free, so there's no risk
58:41
Speaker 2: to booking it.
58:41
Speaker 3: I love that. That's huge.
58:43
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, so don't forget book a call with Trevor
58:46
Speaker 1: mentioned Bubba in the podcast again.
58:49
Speaker 3: Call is free.
58:50
Speaker 1: I love it, you, guys. We all have so much
58:52
Speaker 1: healing to do. Bring Jesus together with this attachment healing.
58:56
Speaker 1: It is magic. Trevor, you're a man, the man for
59:00
Speaker 1: coming on here and taking time. And we're gonna sign
59:02
Speaker 1: off and say I have a wonderful safe attachment day.
59:07
Speaker 3: Let's all
59:10
Speaker 1: Right,