Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 1-3) (9/25/26)

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Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 1-3) (9/25/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to continue our
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: look at some of the unsealed files. And this time,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive into a sworn statement given by
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Michael Thomas, one of the guards who was on duty
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the night Epstein died. So the person asking the questions
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: is somebody from the OIG's office. And the person that's
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: doing the answering is Michael Thomas. So they swear him in,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and then the questioning starts. Question. Thank you all. Mr. Thomas,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: you're here today as a subject in this DOJ OIG investigation.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: This DOJ investigation concerns your alleged misconduct to include allegations
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: of false statements, job performance failure, security failure, and reporting
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: false information. This is an official DOJ OIG investigation. and
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: you're being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? Mr. Thomas, yes. Redacted. Question.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. Now we have a form here for
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: your employer for our employees who provide voluntary answers to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: our questions. It's the U.S. Department of Justice Office of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: provide information on a voluntary basis. It says you're being
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: asked to provide information as part of an investigation being
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: 1978 as amended. This investigation pertains to your alleged false statements,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: job performance failure, security failure, and reporting false information. This
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: proceeding or agency proceedings, disciplinary proceedings, or both. And obviously
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: we have the DPA. Then there's a waiver section. I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: understand the warnings and assurances stated above, and I'm willing
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to make a statement and answer the questions. No promises
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: or threats have been made to me, and no pressure
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: or coercion of any kind has been used against me.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: If you want to take a look, or anybody, the
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: attorney or anybody wants to take a look, that was
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: read verbatim. But if you agree, there's a section that
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: says employee signature, and then you can just print your name. Mr. Redacted,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: just print your name right there. Thank you, Mr. Thomas,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: for signing. I'm going to sign as a signature of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: the officer of the inspector general special agent. Again, this
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: is my redacted and I'm going to print my name.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Special agent redacted. Can you sign as a signature of witness? Redacted.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: This is special agent redacted. I'm signing a signature of witness. Question.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. Special agent. Can you just fill in
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the date and time and then write in the place?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So the date is again 6-17-2021 and the time is
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: 10-11 a.m. Thank you. Okay. And since there's a union
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: representative present, I have a form for you as well
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: if you just want to take a look and review that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to read that out loud for the record. Redacted,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I've read them many times. Redacted, you don't need indiscernible
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: all that. Thank you. Mr. Redacted for signing where you
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: said that you certify that you appeared as an official
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: OIG investigative interview as a union representative and was provided
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: a copy of this advisory and signing it and dating it.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I'm going to sign where it says name of OIG
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: special agent. It actually doesn't ask for my signature, so
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I will first print and then sign next to it.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I'm dating it 6-17-2021. Redacted Mr. Mitchell is someone on
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the line. Mitchell, well, I was just setting up a
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: conference so Mr. Figgins could dial in. No one's there. Oh, okay.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Is he going to be dialing in? Mr. Mitchell, yeah,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: he's going to join us shortly. Okay. Question from redacted.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: So shortly, attorney Montel Figgins will be dialing in. All right.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: So did you understand the OIG form, Mr. Thomas? Mr. Thomas, yes,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I did. Redacted. Great. Thank you. Before starting... Redacted. And
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I surely will. Thomas. Redacted. Question. Perfect. Thank you, sir.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: All right. So what's your current address? Mr. Thomas. Kizabi,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: New Jersey. Redacted. Thank you, sir. And what's your date
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: of birth? Give the date of birth. Redacted. Do you
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: happen to have any kind of ID on you just
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: so we know we're talking to the right person? Okay.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at a New Jersey auto driver's license with
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a name on it as Michael A. Thomas. And the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: picture does match the person sitting in front of me. Okay.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: What's your highest level of education? Mr. Thomas, some college.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I completed high school. Question. Okay. How much college did
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: you have? Mr. Thomas, I couldn't add to a little bit.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Correspondence courses when I was in the military and everything
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: like that. Redacted. Question. Okay. So was there like a
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: course of study? Mr. Thomas, no. Question. No, just required. Thomas, no.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Just like basic courses and stuff like that. Question. And
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: around when was that? Mr. Thomas. 2002, 2001. I'm thinking
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: here and there. Question. Sure. Was it all from one institution? Mr. Thomas.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: It was some online courses and stuff like that that
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I took. Question. Okay, cool. While you were with the military? Answer. Yeah.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: By Mr. Thomas. Yeah. While I was in the military.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: It was all done while I was in the military. Question. Perfect,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and what did you do prior to working with the BOP? Mr. Thomas,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I was at Target, back room. Question, okay, and how
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: long did you do that? Thomas, I did that for
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: three months before I got this job here. Question, so
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it was primarily the military previously? Thomas, yeah, I got
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: out of the military in 06, and then I started
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: this in 07. Question, great, thank you. Question, thank you
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: for your service. When were you in the military? Mr. Thomas,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I went in in 98 to 2006. Question, and what branch? Answer, Army. Question, Army. Thomas, answer,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: active duty the whole time. Question, and when you, sorry. Okay,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: so where the attorney is getting on the phone with Mr. Higgins.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: And with the Army, when you got out of the Army,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: what was your rank? Mr. Thomas, E4. Question, E4 sergeant,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: is that sergeant? Answer, no, that's a specialist. Question, that's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: a specialist? Thomas, uh-huh. Question, okay, what was your? He
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: gets cut off by Mr. Thomas. Highest rank attainable, E5. Question, okay,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: so you got to E5 and then came back down
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: to E4? Mr. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, was it honorary discharge? Thomas,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: general discharge under honorable conditions. Mr. Redacted, question. Okay, great.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: And when you were in the army, was it that
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you were my MOS? Thomas, 13 Bravo. Okay, Thomas. Sorry
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: if I answered that. No, no, please. I was trying
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to figure out the word to use. Mr. Thomas, MOS. Redacted. Okay, perfect.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: And how long have you served with the Federal Bureau
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of Prisons? Mr. Thomas, as of April 1st. 14 years. Question,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: 14 years. And what was your enter on duty date? Mr. Thomas,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: April 1st, 2007. Question, okay. And when did you graduate
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: from BOP training? Thomas, I don't know the exact date. Question,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: but you did attend. Thomas, it's usually a year of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: probationary or something like that. Oh, you're talking about training
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: at FLETC? Question, at FLETC, correct. So the Federal Law
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Enforcement Training Center. Mr. Thomas. November of 07. Question. Okay.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: And that was for Correctional Officer Training? Answer. Yes. Question. Perfect, sir.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And when and where was your first assignment with the BOP? Thomas.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: My whole career has been at MCC. Redacted. Okay. That
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: makes it easy. And what positions have you held while
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you were there? Just briefly. Thomas. correctional officer, and material
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: handler specialist. Redacted, just those two? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: and what does material handler specialist do? What does that mean? Thomas,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: it's a commissary trust fund. It's the trust fund in
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the BOP. Question, okay, does that mean that you handle,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: he gets cut off, Thomas, you deal with different positions
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: from laundry, commissary, backroom supply, and that's mainly, yeah, that's
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: mainly it. Question, and what was your grade level? Thomas, WS4,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: step five, I guess. Question, okay, what's your current cell
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: phone number? Thomas answers. Question. Perfect. And we won't contact you.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: We'll go through your attorney. But it's just a question
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: we ask. And your current email address? He gives up that. Question.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. And when did you last work at
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the MCC? Physically present. Mr. Thomas. August 10th, 2019. Question.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And did you work both on August 9th and August 10th, 2019? Mr. Thomas. Yes. Question, okay,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and that was in the shoe from 12 a.m. to
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: 8 a.m. on both days. Mr. Thomas, on both days?
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: What do you mean? Oh, yes, yes, yes. So on
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: August 9th, midnight to 8 a.m. Then again, August 10th,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: 8 a.m. or 12 a.m. to 8 a.m. And was
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: that in the special housing unit? Mr. Thomas, yes. Question,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: also known as the shoe, who was your supervisor when
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: you last worked? At the MCC. Or did you have
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: one in particular? Mr. Thomas. My supervisor was misredacted. Question. Great.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you. So just briefly overall. That training. Would you
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: attend while. So I know you said. That you did
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: CO training down at FLETC. But what other training. Would
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you conduct while you're with the BOP? Mr. Thomas. That
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I would conduct. Question, yeah. Like what training were you
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: provided when you were with the BOP? Like annual training? Thomas? Yeah,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: annual training. Annual training that's usually done sometime. Well, it
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: lasts from January to sometimes March, from what I can remember.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: But that's annual training. A-A-R-T, I think it's called. Question,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: annual refresher training? Thomas? Yeah, there you go. Question, okay, great.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Is there any other training that they would provide? Mr. Thomas, um, question,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: like did you ever attend like SHU quarterly training or
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: anything like that? Mr. Thomas, I have when I was off.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I've done SHU quarterly training. Question, okay, so
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: would you do the annual training every year? Thomas, annual
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: training is every year, yes. Question, and what would be
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the last time you think you conducted shoe training, shoe
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: quarterly training? Answer, I really couldn't remember. Question, no, that's fine.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: All right. This is actually your training record. Do you just,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you to like certify that
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: these things are, you know, it's just to look at.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: And if you say for the most part, does that
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: look like the training that you conducted? It shows from
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the most recent to through the past. Question, this is
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: just like your training record. We ask like, hey, can
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: we put the BOP employee's training record? They print something
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: like this out, which just shows that like on these
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: dates were the dates that you completed training. So it
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: looks like that you completed the last annual refresher training
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: on 4-5, which this is the annual refresher training course syllabus.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: This is the sign in sheet. So I believe that
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: would be the last time that you conducted your annual
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: refresher training. And like, for instance, I believe that would
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: be your name and would be that your signature next
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to it. Thomas. Yes. Question. OK, great. So just point
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: being the last time you did conduct annual refresher training
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: in April of 2019. Thomas. Uh huh. All right, so
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to dive back in and pick
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All of the information that
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the deposition of Michael Thomas,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: one of two guards who were charged in the aftermath
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of Epstein's death. Question, awesome. Anytime I provide you something,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to ask you to initial and date
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it so that there is no confusion of what actually
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: was provided to you and what you actually looked at.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: And it's not certifying to the accuracy of this. It's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: just certifying that this is what I showed you. Thomas,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: any particular place? Question, up top would be great. Thomas,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: sign or initial? Question, just initial and date. So again,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It's 6-17-21. So I'm going to take that this is
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: not supposed to be connected. I'm going to take just
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: your training records out of this because they've got a
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: lot of your daily assignments in here and stuff. Thomas, okay. Question.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: This was all supposed to be attached to that. So
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that you'll see is just so that we're on the
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: same page is just all the way from 2007 up
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: to 08-09-2019. Mr. Mitchell. And when you say training, these
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: were actual classes? Redacted, question. It's just what they have
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: in the BOP system. Every time he conducts a training,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: they log it, and so they can keep a record
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of what training individuals conducted. Mr. Thomas, okay. Question, and
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: for this, the main point. For this was that, again,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you did take that annual refresher training in April of 2019.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Any questions on that? Mr. Thomas, no. Question, any concerns? Thomas, nope. Question, great,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: thank you, sir. Can you just kind of go through
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and find your daily schedule? There we go. His roster
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: would be in there. All right, and at the annual
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: refresher training, like just roughly, what do you recall that
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: you had learned there? Mr. Thomas, it's a bunch of
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: different classes. Question, like ethics, correct? Thomas, it goes from
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: somebody speaking to... to somebody putting something up on the teleprompter,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and then you're reading off, it's a variety of classes
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: depending on how the instructor at the time would present
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the class. Question? Okay, great. Let me see. Just to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: bring us back to this. It looks like the way
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that the BOP system, this report that I just showed you,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: it looks like on 4.5, there's a ton of different classes.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: And that just looks like probably what the annual refresher
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: training covered. It would be like ethics, infectious disease, international security,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: key control, air spray, prison rape, report writing, self-defense, weapons
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of mass destruction. Mr. Thomas, yeah, but at different times. Thomas,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: there are a bunch of different classes. Question, perfect. Yeah, awesome.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: And did they ever, at the MCC, did they ever
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: provide you with like post orders and things like that? Thomas, yeah,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: post orders. Question, Post orders and there are guidance and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: policies and things. Thomas. Yeah. Question. Okay. Awesome. Is there
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: something that when they provided you, did they say to
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: you that you had to review them or they just
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: give them to you? How does that work? Mr. Thomas,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: there are posted on every housing unit redacted. They're all.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: So when you go to housing units, the orders are
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: actually in there. Thomas. No, they're in a book redacted.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: They're in a book. Thomas, one of the books redacted. Okay.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And do they ask you to, like, review them? Or how?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I'm just wondering how MCC goes about it. What do
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: they do with making sure their correctional officers know what
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the policies and procedures are in their institutions? Thomas, you
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: have to sign them when you're supposed to sign them
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: when you go to a post. Question? Okay, so, like, if,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: for instance, he gets cut off by Thomas, it's in
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: your own to review them and everything like that. Question,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I got you. So have you ever been provided, reviewed,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: and signed the special housing unit orders? Thomas, yes. Question, okay,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: do you remember? Would that be like every time you're
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: in there? Or would it be like the initial time?
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: How does it work? Thomas, if I'm not mistaken, I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: think it's just to whenever you go in there. The
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: one time you go in there, he gets cut off. Question,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: so like the first time? Thomas, every quarter you have to,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Question, You have to sign it. Question.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: All right, Thomas, every quarter. So like if you go
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in there between February and April, the first initial time
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: you go in there, you sign it. And that was
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that was it. It's not something you sign every day.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Redacted right. But like, for instance, in 2019, would you
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: have been provided it and had to sign it? Thomas. Yeah. Question. OK, Thomas,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: it definitely had to be in there somewhere. Question, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you did it. Thomas, I'm sure, I don't know. Question,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: but you have been provided. Thomas cuts them off. I
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: signed them before, yes, but I don't know. Question, sure,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: no problem. What is the BOP or MCC policy on
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: conducting counts and rounds, just broadly speaking? What's your like
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: sentence or two? Thomas, my interpretation of it? Question, your
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: understanding of let's start with rounds. what are you supposed
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to do with rounds at the MCC? And we can
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: even move it directly to the special housing unit so
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: we don't get confused. Thomas, uh-huh. Redacted in the special
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: housing unit. How are you supposed to conduct a round? Thomas,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to conduct the rounds every 30 minutes, not
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: at the same time, but roughly about every 30 minutes. Question,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: so it's every 30 minutes? Thomas, not every 30 minutes
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: on the hour or anything like that. He gets cut off.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: So like a 30 to 40 minute gap? There's like
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: a 10 minute, I guess, window that you're supposed to
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: conduct it within every 30 minutes. Is that right? Thomas,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: it's not exactly. He gets cut off. 8, 8.39. Thomas, yeah,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it's not exactly 8 or 8.30, just every 30 minutes.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: So if you go at 1.22... Question, sure. Thomas, you
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: should go at some time between 1.52 or whatever. The
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: case may be, it's just every 30 minutes. Question, and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: is that for the whole 24-hour day? 30 minutes every
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes? Thomas, yeah, for every 24 hours. Question, okay,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: so there's no like, you don't have to do it
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: from this time to that time. Thomas, no, it's for
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a 24-hour day. Question, And how do you conduct around?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: What are you supposed to do when you conduct around
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in the shoe? Thomas, it depends on what time period. Redacted,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: can you just explain that a little bit? Thomas, well,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: if you just walk around and look in the glass. Question,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: are you supposed to be able to see a person
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: and make sure that they're in there? Thomas, you're supposed
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to see a person and make sure they're there. Question,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and alive and well? Thomas, uh, see human flesh and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: everything like that, yes. Question, okay. That they're not in
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: distress or they need anything. Thomas, under distress, yes. Question, okay.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And what is the count to your understanding? A cell
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: count or an inmate count in the special housing unit? Thomas,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: an institution account? Question, no. So when you're working in
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the special housing unit, Do you not have to do
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: a count on the weekdays from 4 p.m., 10 p.m.,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: 12 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m.? Thomas, you're doing the
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: institution count, the standard. It's BOP count. It's an institution count. Well,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I phrase it as an institution count. Question. So when
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: you're in the shoe, how do you conduct a count? Thomas,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: same way you do around. So you just walk around,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: verify live tissue and everything like that, and you see
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: a person. question and you're supposed to count the number
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: this time though. So as opposed to just going in around,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming you don't actually call out the numbers and
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: certify a certain number. You just go through and make
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: sure that everybody's okay. With the count that you have to,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: he gets cut off by Thomas. In a count, you
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: call out the numbers and then around, you just verify. Redacted, okay.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: And then what do you do after you get the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: numbers in the special housing unit? Thomas, tally it up,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Put it on a piece of paper. Question, okay, like
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: a count slip. Thomas, the count slip get time on
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the count slips. Question, okay, great. And were you provided
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: training on conducting rounds and counts at MCC? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: When would you receive that training? During the annual refresher training?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Annual shoe training? Thomas, annuals, yes. Annual refresher training and
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: shoe training, either or. Question, okay, so any other training
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: they would provide you on that, or they would have
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the two primary times, you get that. Thomas, that's the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: two primary times. Question, okay, during your time at the MCC,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: how often would you be assigned to the special housing unit? Thomas,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: it depends. If it was for overtime, well, besides then, just, well,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: assigned to, just assigned for overtime. Question, so whenever you
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: would conduct overtime, you would be there? Mr. Thomas, well,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: if it was open, and that's what was open, yeah,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that's what it would be. Question, since 2007 through 2019,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: did you do it fairly regularly? Thomas, fairly regularly? I mean... Question,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: so you're pretty familiar with it? Thomas, I'm familiar with both,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: from 2007. I haven't been a correctional officer that whole time. Redacted, sure. Question...
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I was, if I'm not mistaken, I got the material
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: handler position in 2010 or 2012. Something in between that
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: time frame. Question, so I guess from 2007, from the
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: time you would do it as like as a quarterly
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: posted bid? Thomas, oh, I never did it. I can't
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: recall ever doing it. I've done the shoe more than
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: a few times. Question, yeah. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, so point being,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: is you're familiar with the way that the shoe is operated? Thomas, yeah,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with how everything goes in the shoe. Question,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: all right, awesome. So aside from doing the counts and rounds,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: what other training would they provide you in order to
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: make sure that you were prepared to work in the shoe?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Would they provide like suicide prevention training, things like that? Thomas,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, that's on the art. If I'm
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: not mistaken, that's on the art. Question, suicide is on
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the art? Thomas, yeah, it's one of the courses in art. Question, okay,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: what is the course in art? I'm sorry, I'm just
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: trying to. Thomas, I really couldn't tell you the exact
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: name of the course or anything like that. Question, what
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: you're saying is art has a shoe course? Is that
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: what you're saying? Thomas, yeah, it has, no. I'm saying
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it has what you just said, a suicide prevention course.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it's something like that in art. Question. Oh, okay.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: But I was trying to use suicide prevention as like
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: an example of training that you received to be able
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to work in the SHU. What I'm asking is like
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: to make sure I could say Thomas cuts them off. No,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's an actual course to work in
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the SHU. To work specifically with the SHU. It's just
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: an actual course that they provide at ART. It's not
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: specific to just one housing unit. It's just an annual refresher. Question.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: That's specific suicide. So I guess what I'm asking is,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: what training did they provide to you to make sure
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you could work in the shoe? Let's put it this way.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: During the shoe quarterly training, what type of training would
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: they provide to you? Mr. Thomas, I really don't remember
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: at all. Question, you don't remember. Thomas, I don't remember often. Question, no,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: that's totally fine. Thomas, just regular shoe training. Question, but
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you have received the suicide prevention training. though, at the
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: MCC annual refresher training? Thomas, at ART. Question, okay. And what,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: just very briefly, what types of things would they teach
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you at suicide prevention training? Thomas, um, I'm trying. It's
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: just training, like I don't what's specific about the training. Question, sure. Thomas,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: they tell you how it happens each year or in
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a quarter or something like that. I remember that they
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: tell you cases of how people committed suicide. Sometimes it's
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: signs to watch for suicide. That's basically all I can
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: remember with that. I don't remember the training exactly. All right, folks,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All of the information that
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: where we left off with jail guard Michael Thomas's and
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: his deposition with the OIG inspectors. Question, sure, that's fine. Now,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: as you said, you work from 12 a.m. to 8 a.m.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: on both August 9th and August 10th, correct? In the shoe? Mr. Thomas, well,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: it's August 10th, I think, if I'm not mistaken. Question,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: but August 9th and August 10th, you did 8 a.m.?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: He gets cut off by Mr. Thomas, no? Question, I'm sorry,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I mean 12 a.m. to 8 a.m. on both days? Thomas, no,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: not both days. See, this really has me confused. If
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: let's say the shift started at 12, usually the shift
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: starts at 1. Question, correct. Answer, so if I came in,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I came in on the 9th, but the shift didn't
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: start until midnight. It's from midnight to 8 in the morning. Question, right.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is midnight on August 9th. Thomas,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: which is August 10th? Question, you probably got there on
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: August 8th. Thomas, no, no, I didn't work. Question, so
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: here's your daily assignment roster. I just want to make sure.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: So August 10th, August 9th, it says that you were
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: in the shoe on both days. Thomas, okay, so... He
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: gets cut off. I thought we talked about that earlier.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. So at the start
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: of the interview, we talked about... Thomas cuts him off. Okay,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: so I did shoe. I didn't recall that I did
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: shoe two days in a row. Question, right. Thomas, okay. Question,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: so I don't think you kind of called out. Maybe
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the two days leading up, but you still did your
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: overtime shift. Thomas, these are all overtime shifts for me. Question, yeah,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I know. Answer. none of this is regular shift for me.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: This is all overtime for me. Question, okay, great. So
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: just the point being, I just wanted to make sure
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you did work on both August 9th and August 10th
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: from the midnight to 8 a.m. shift. Thomas, yeah, okay, yes. Question, awesome.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Just because I presented this to you, do you mind
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: just initialing and dating it? Does that appear to be
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: your daily schedule? For it looks like it started back
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: on June 29th, 2019 until August 10th, 2019. Thomas. Yeah.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: This is not a daily schedule for me. This is
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: all overtime. As you can see, it's all overtime. Question. Sorry.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: The daily assignment for overtime. Thomas for overtime. Yeah. Question. Question.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: They're all your overtime shifts. Thomas, this is not daily.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: This is all overtime. Question, and as you mentioned, that's
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: why it says the number of times in there where
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: it's the shoe. Thomas, it's the shoe and internal mostly.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Question right, because there were overtime shifts working in the shoe.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your clarification. And what are your overall
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: duties and responsibilities when you're assigned to the shoe? Thomas,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: maintain the count of inmates, make sure the inmates are fed,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: depending on the shift you're referring to, take over a shift,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: make sure they get their showers, make sure they're counted,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: and that's basically it. Question, okay, and are there any
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: special requirements for inmates who are assigned to the SHU? Thomas,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: not that I know of, no. Question, so are inmates
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: that are assigned to the SHU, unless they have some classification,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: where they could be hurt by another cellmate, are they
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: all supposed to have cellmates? Thomas, classification. Like, I don't
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: know if they still, some if I can recall, some
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: of the cell and rec alone. Maybe they were in
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a fight and they, what's it called, when they keep
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: away from all other inmates. But other than that, some
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: could be cell rec alone. Question, so for the most part,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I should say, are inmates in the SHU supposed to
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: have a cellmate? Thomas, I don't know. Question, my understanding
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: was that they're all supposed to have a cellmate. unless
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: they meet some kind of criteria, like they're a certain
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: type of inmate who would be harmed by another cellmate.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer, I don't know. Question, you're not sure? Thomas,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Question, fair enough, no problem. Have you
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: ever received training for medical emergencies with inmates? Answer, in
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the art. Question, in art? Thomas, yeah. Question, were you
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: also an instructor? Thomas, no, I've never instructed. Question, you've
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: never been an instructor? Never liked CPR instructor or anything
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: like that? Thomas, no. No, I'm not a CPR instructor. Question, okay,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: all right. So for medical emergencies, the art is pretty
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: much when they cover that. Do they cover that also
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: during shoe training? Medical emergencies for like inmates? Thomas, I
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: don't recall. No, I don't think so. Question, you're not sure? Thomas,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. Question, like you got an annual training? Thomas,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the annual training. Question, all right. Who is or was
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: inmate Jeffrey Epstein? Thomas, an inmate at MCC. Question, okay,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: do you recall when Epstein was housed at MCC? Does
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: July 6, 2019 through August 10, 2019 sound familiar? Thomas,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I don't remember when he first got there, but I
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: don't remember when exactly he first got there. Redacted, so
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: these we just this is just the overtime roster, when
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: it looks like you were assigned to the shoe pretty
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: regularly from 7-11-2019 to 8-10-2019. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, when you
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: were there, was he in the shoe? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming not the whole time. Thomas, not. He gets
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: cut off. Redacted. Because I think he was on suicide watch.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: But when you were there, he was, you know, him
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: from being in the shoe though. Mr. Thomas, yeah. I've
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: seen him before in the shoe. Yeah, absolutely. Question. Okay, perfect.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Do you know why Epstein was assigned to the shoe? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: They never told you why? Thomas, no. Question, okay. Was
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it high profile? for suicide, safety concerns, anything like that? Thomas,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: it could have been a number of reasons that his
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: case was high profile, whatever the case may be. Question, okay,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: and was Epstein assigned to the SHU on both August
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: 9th and August 10th, 2019? Mr. Thomas, yes. Question, okay,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: and we kind of just covered this, but do you
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: know how long he was assigned to the SHU? Again,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I believe it was July and August, aside from those timeframes, correct? Thomas,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I really don't know. Question. That's fine. What was Epstein's
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: routine while he was assigned at the SHU? Mr. Thomas,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question. Because you did the overnight shift,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I can understand that. So are you aware that like
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: during the day, he would meet with his attorneys every
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: day and then he would be from basically 8 a.m.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: until like 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. He was meeting
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: with his lawyers. Thomas, I honestly really don't know. Question.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: You don't even know. So when you worked at the shoe,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: was it always that 12 a.m. to 8 a.m. shift
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: in the shoe? Thomas. Well, I mean, I'm sure I
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: have some evening watch ones. I don't know if I
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: have some evening watch or not, but I'm sure I've
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: done evening watch or anything like that, but I didn't
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: look exactly at it. Maybe that's all morning watch. This
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: is all morning watch. Question. So these like for July
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: and August? Thomas. It's all. Yeah, this is all morning watch. Question.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: So they would all be from 12 a.m.? Thomas, yeah.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: That's all 12 a.m. Redacted. And how is that identified?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: As that. Thomas, oh, right here. Where you see MW
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: is for morning watch. They say DW is for day watch. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: but it's all morning. Question, so all morning watch while
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Epstein was assigned to the shoe. Thomas, yeah. Question, okay, cool. Now,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: did you ever have any communication with Epstein during his
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: stay at the MCC? Thomas, one particular time. Question, can
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: you tell me about that particular time? Thomas, he was
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: on suicide watch and I was watching him on suicide watch. Question, oh,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: you actually watched him when he was on suicide watch? Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: all right, not while you were in the shoe though. Thomas, no,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: not while I was in the shoe. Question, all right,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: when you were watching him. Was that a positive or
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: negative experience? Answer, I can't label it under positive or negative.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It was just watching him. Question, like, were his interactions
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: with you, were they like? Thomas cuts him off. Oh,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: he spoke with me and everything like that. Question, was
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: he pleasant? Answer, yeah, he was pleasant. He wasn't mean
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. He was really incoherent where he
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: was at. But other than that, he was just fine.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: He just sat there and talked with me until, I mean,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the whole six hours. Question. Okay. And do you remember
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: around when that took place? Mr. Thomas, I really can't recall. Question.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Could have that have been? Does it say it on this? Actually,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it does. On this thing, it says suicide watch. Would
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: it be on 7-23-2019? Thomas, that could have been his.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: That could have been the one. Question. Okay. So on 7-23-2019,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I believe he had an incident within his cell. And
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you're familiar with? So when you were watching him on
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Suicide Watch, do you know why he was there? Thomas, oh,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: for Suicide Watch. Question, yeah. Did you hear that he
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: tried to take his life? Thomas, yeah, I've heard that.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: As you can see, it was internal that day. Question, okay. Thomas, internal,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you just go up and you count all the housing
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: units and everything like that. And I guess he tried
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: to commit suicide. And we brought him down. To the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: suicide room. And I sat there and I watched them.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know what six hours, seven hours, whatever it is. Question.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: But prior to them sitting down or even after, did
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: they inform you why he was there? Thomas. Well, it's
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: suicide watch. It's pretty self-explanatory. Question. But they didn't provide
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: you details. Thomas. No. Just if you're there on suicide watch,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: it's kind of self-explanatory. But if you go depending suicide
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: watch is one thing and observation watch is another. But
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: if it says suicide watch, I'm sure he was on
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: suicide watch because he was in a smock and he
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: gets cut off. What does a smock mean? Thomas, it's
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: just a cover that you put over so you don't
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: have any clothes or anything like that. Question, okay, is
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: it so they can't harm themselves? Thomas, yeah, so they
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: don't harm themselves. Question, okay, and you were the only
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: individual on that observing him during suicide watch? Thomas, yeah,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I was the only one watching at that time. Redacted,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: and you said there's a difference between suicide watch and
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: psychological observation. What's the difference? Thomas, well, psychological observation, you
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: have your clothes. Redacted, okay, but I mean as far
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: as you as a CO. Thomas, there's no difference. You're
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: still watching them. There's no difference. Question, okay. Thomas, you're
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: still just watching them in suicide. In observation, you just
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: have clothes and suicide watch. You're in a smock and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: a blanket. Question, okay. And did you receive... any instruction
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: with regard to Epstein when he was assigned to the
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: shoe Thomas no redacted specific to Epstein Thomas no question
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and are you aware that Epstein was assigned any cellmate
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: when he was assigned to the shoe Thomas um I'm
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: sure he was maybe he was I don't really recall Question,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: so you don't recall if he had a cellmate? Thomas,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I know one time he had a cellmate. I don't
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: recall like if he was assigned a specific cellmate or not. Question, okay.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All of
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: in the description box.