Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Jeff Kent elected to HOF, Barry Bonds & Roger Clemens fall short, Winter Meetings memories

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Jeff Kent elected to HOF, Barry Bonds & Roger Clemens fall short, Winter Meetings memories · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory. I'm
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Matt Holliday Kyle Gibson. And since one
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: of the panel has to be in a car, Lance
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Lynn is in his truck as he's what duck hunting?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Lance? Is that what you're doing? Duct and goose? Shoot
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: some geese out here on the snow geese? Got it all?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Have fun. That's good.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: The Winter meetings are underway, no moves yet, but there
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: is some news, and that is that Baseball has a
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: brand new Hall of Famer. That would be Jeff Kent.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: He was voted in by the Contemporary Baseball Era Committee.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Fernando Valenzuela, Dale Murphy, Gary Sheffield
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: were among the group that didn't get in. That includes
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Don mattin Lee as well, So Barry Bonds not in. Look,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: these guys are gonna have to wait until some of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: these guys twenty and thirty one to become eligible once again.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So I want to get your take. Start with the positive.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Jeff Kent Hall of Famer numbers are pretty good. Seventeen
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: years in the BIGS, MVP, five time All Star two
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: ninety batting average five hundred career slug eight fifty five ops,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy seven career homers, one hundred RBIs
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: eight times in his career. Not bad for a second baseman,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: LANCELN pretty good choice, don't you think.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think he is one of many people
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: that deserve to be in And I'm sure we'll kind
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: of go over here in a little bit, but yeah,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I mean you're looking at one of the I just
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: go the way I see it is guys that I
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: watch going up and or that I see as like
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: the top in their position to ever play. So when
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, Jeff Kent in the Hall of Fame,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: like I would have assumed he was already in there,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: that's kind of my thought of it. So I'm definitely deserving.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Kyle Gibson. There are some guys that, you know, I
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: think are borderline. Would you say Jeff Kent is clearly
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: not borderline?
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I agree at Lance growing up, you know,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Jeff Kent was one of the better second basements in
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: the game, if not the best second basement for quite
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: a few years. And you know, with those kind of
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: power numbers at the second base position. Probably compared to
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: other second basements, he probably stands out, you know, in
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: a pretty good group there in the Hall of Fame,
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: a group of second basements that already there. So yeah,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: really happy for him for congratulations. A guy that you know,
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: had I been second base, you know, I probably would have,
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: you know, modeled a little of my game after because
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: I feel like I watched him quite a bit.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Very very good player. Now Matt spent some time with
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: with the Giants, hitting behind Barry Bonds. That might help
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: someone's numbers. He also drove in a couple of runs
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a couple of times one hundred runs with other ball clubs.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: So this is a.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Guy whose career spans a long time, with a lot
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: of different teams and always productive.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: Man, I look, I think when you look at that list,
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of them that are very worthy. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: think we will get into it, but there's just so
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: much suspicion on a lot of those guys about the
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: performance enhancing drugs. Who did who didn't. I think the
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: committee made it clear, but they don't think Jeff can't
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: use performance enhancing drugs, and and and like they said,
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: his numbers at second base put him certainly makes you
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: wonder why he didn't get in the first time. And
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: we can get into this as well, but a lot
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: of it to me is as how you treat the media.
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: I think sometimes he could come off a little bit.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: I don't know how to say this, but you know,
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: like I don't know that he was all that friendly
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: to the media. Yeah, so I think he belonged in
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: the first time.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I heard.
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: I think he belonged in and and the and the
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: writers vote. But for him to get it now, I
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: think it gives it gives hope. I really like, uh,
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: this angle of adding guys to the Hall of Fame.
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: It gives players that I think get overlooked at times.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: You know, a teammate of ours and A and A
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: and a good friend of ours Lance Bertman. For him
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: to not even make the second ballot when you look
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: at his numbers as a switch hitter, I think there's
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: a lot of guys that that got slighted from the
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: writers on on on the vote. So I love this system.
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: I love having people in the game that played and
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: managed and gmmed looking at kind of taking cases that
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: that maybe need to be looked at a little closer.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: And then and then, you know, allowing those guys to
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: get the honor that they deserve. And I and honestly,
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: I don't know how many they can vote in, but
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: I thought there would be a couple more. I don't
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: know if they have to do it one at a time,
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: but I certainly could have seen Dale Murphy get in.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: And I thought a few of those other guys would
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: get a few more votes in this thing. But like
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: I said, I think they're the suspicion and the the
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: evidence of performance answing drugs. This this group of voters
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: also took those into consideration.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: The second look, I think is a big thing. Guy
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: like Ted Simmons, right was an inn until they looked
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: at his stats and his value and the Saber metrics
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: changed everything, and all of a sudden, Ted Simmons as
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer should have been in years ago.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So it's good to get a second look. And for
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the record, you know, you talk about guys, I forget
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: what word Lance used. I don't want to use that
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: same word, but maybe we're jerks to the media. Lance
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Berkman was one of the nicest guys ever to the media,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: and still he's on the outside looking in. But you
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: guys mentioned one of you guys mentioned, you know, the
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: steroid guys. So Barry Bond's the greatest player who ever lived, arguably.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Is on the list.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Didn't get five votes, so he won't be eligible again
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: for until two thousand and thirty one. So less than
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: five votes means you gotta wait. But you talk about
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Barry Bonds, you talk about Clemmens, certainly one of the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: great pictures of our era, one of the all time greats,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: not in chef Field has. These are guys that have
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the ties to steroids. So Lance, what's your view on that?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Now in two thousand and five, as I recall baseball
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: outlaw to use the steroids. Before that it was an
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: illegal substance, but not specifically outlawed by Baseball, what's your
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: view on the guys who are tied to steroids?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Lance?
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: You know, those are two guys that I watched growing up,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: and they were reasons for me to enjoy playing the
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: game and wanting to be a major leaguer. So I
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: see them as Hall of famers. They've had Hall of
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Fame careers, are there obviously? You know with some of
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: the steroid things, there's you know, there's there's bad looks there.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: I think they eventually get in on like kind of
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: a way. It looks in the way everybody's pushing everything.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: It kind of looks like it's going to be kind
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: of how Pete Rose got in. It's not going down
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: until they pass away. So that's kind of my thought,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: especially with this vote. I was expecting them to, don't
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: I don't think I was expecting them to get this
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: few of votes on this committee because of what they
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: accomplished as players in the game. So a little bit
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: surprised there, but it kind of is like, hey, everyone's
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: making a stance on Hey, you know, you did do something,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: So you're not going to enjoy being a Hall of
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Famer when you do get in, because they're going to wait.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Barry Bonds for the record seven time MVP, seven time MVP,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: fourteen All Star Games, eight gold gloves, of course, is
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: seven hundred and sixty two career homers, career four forty
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: four on base percentage, six oh seven slug one point
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: oh five ops, ridiculous Clemens three hundred and fifty four
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: career wins, seven cy youngs. So, Matt, how do you
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: look at those guys that are clearly not just Hall
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: of Fame worthy, but really historically great in the sport
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: of baseball. How do you look at it?
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: I look at it. I'm okay with the Baseball Hall
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: of Fame adding a steroid era wing to the to
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: the museum. I mean, it's a museum honoring the great
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: players of all time. It's a museum honoring the sport.
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: There's certainly people in the Hall of Fame that weren't
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: great people even going back to you know, Sheilas, Joe
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: Jackson and and like you know, if you even if
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: you go way back and you start talking about amphetamines
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: in the in the seventies and eighties, Uh, you start
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: talking about So look, this isn't this isn't a Hall
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: of Fame museum full of these amazing characters that never
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: did anything that were outside the lines are against the law. Uh.
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: So I'm okay with with adding a wing to the
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: Hall of Fame that even if we call it the hall,
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: you know, the steroid era. Uh, these these players belong
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: or in my opinion, I think at least need to
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: be honored in some fashion as the great players in
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: their era. So look, I'm I'm totally opposed to cheating,
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: and I think it probably cost guys that were doing
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: it clean underneath them, cost them awards, cost them, probably
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: cost them, you know, silber sluggers and gold gloves and
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: and things that that you know, you can look back
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: on and say, you know that these guys cheated and
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: they get what they get. But I think it I'm
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: like I said, I'm okay with with adding a a
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: haul that has sort of an asterisk next to the
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: to the to the wing that says, hey, look, there's
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: significant evidence to believe that these people use steroids or
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: performance enhancing drugs. But look at the numbers. Uh, these
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: were tremendous players. And I think it's also worth mentioning
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: that there's players that are in the Hall of Fame
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: and while they weren't, they never tested positive for steroids
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: and maybe never got caught. But but but most of
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: the players and the industry on the inside know that
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: they did use steroids. And so I'm I'm I'm a
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: little conflicted on on how to handle all of this.
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: That's definitely an era of baseball that's hard to quantify
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: when it comes to how to handle for the Hall
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: of Fame. But yeah, I mean, like Lance said, I'm
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: a little surprised it might be a directive coming from
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: from the higher ups that that these guys are not
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: to be voted in. And and so it'll be interesting
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: to see how they handle those those those couple of guys.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: When you look at the numbers, it's it's just, I mean,
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: it's it's silly. I mean, when you look at what
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: they did and as far as how great they were
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: in the game of baseball.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: It's ridiculous the situation, to be honest, because a lot
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: of it's ambiguous. There are suspicions on some guys, there's
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: proof on other guys. And then if there's a separate wing,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: which I think is a great idea, or at least
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: some sort of separate some sort of separate display, what
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: do you put a big syringe over the door, right,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you handle it, although I think
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: it's a good idea. But Kyle, really, I think the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: crux of what Matt was saying, it's about level playing field.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Right, If it's.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Not a victimless crime, especially since it was in two
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: thousand and five ruled out of baseball, that would be
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: breaking a baseball rule. But there's people that did it
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the right way or were clean that couldn't possibly post
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the numbers of the guys that were getting a little
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: added something.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it's multi Facetatu're right, you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: you look back at that time, and you know, obviously
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: there was a lot of guys, apparently a lot of
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: guys involved in it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: Some have been you know, named, some haven't.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: I thought A. J. Perginiski had a pretty good take
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: when he said, hey were talking about things that weren't
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: illegal in the game. Yes they were illegal in the country,
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: but there's guys that were doing illegal things in the country,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: you know, to get an edge in the game at
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: the time anyways, whether that was antet means or you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: street illegal drugs for energy and for for performance enhancing.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: So I think after two thousand and five, it's been illegal.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: If you've been caught doing it, then that's one thing.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Before two thousand and five, I thought AJ had a
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: good take. I am also conflicted like Matt. I think,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: if you know, enshrining some of the best players is important.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: So if you need to have a little bit asterisk,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: you need to have it stated. You know, this is
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: why this group may be set apart. I think that's
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: a good idea. But I also think the Hall of
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: Fame committee is gonna have to look at now post
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: two thousand and post amphetamine usage, post Greenee usage, post
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: these things that you're not allowed to do anymore. How
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: do numbers stack up? And trying to really get the
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: best players from each generation, not just comparing everybody to
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: the numbers forty years ago, when you know, it was
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: kind of all goes, and you know, just trying to
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: be out there as many games as possible and take
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: whatever you need to take to get.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Out there now.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Dale Murphy is a guy in his career three hundred
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: ninety eight homers, five Gold Gloves, eight fifteen career ops,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: pretty good, seven All Star teams. No one ever said
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: he is suspected of anything. He's one of the guys
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: that's having a tough time getting in lance. The guys
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: on the list who aren't under any sort of cloud
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: of suspicion. Who do you think is a guy you
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: think or a couple of guys you think should be
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: I think Dale should be in I also, this is
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: know it's Indiana tized, and I mean his nickname is
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Donnie Baseball. For God's sakes, Donny fucking Baseball should be
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: in the Hall of Fame.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: So that's my opinion.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: And the two guys that I look at when I
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: see this that jump out on me, like you see
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: a little bit before you.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Know, my time.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: But the way that they're uh, they've represented themselves is
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: the way that they've people have talked about them in
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: the game, the numbers they've put up, the kind of
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: the things that they've done in the game. Those are
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: the Those are the two names that pop out that
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: aren't like, Hey, these guys are, no doubt numbers Hall
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: of famers, but they have the steroid uh you know
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: problem with them. So those are the those are the
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: two that popped out.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: How about you, Matt, who are the guys on your
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: list that you think should be added? Maybe sooner than later.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: Well, i'd like to. I'd like to see actually what
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: next year's class looks like. I don't know who who's
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: up for it next year. The eight seventeen ops from
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: Dale Murphy, I don't know. I feel like that might
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: be a little bit low for a Hall of Famer.
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: I mean, I like him, I think he's a great
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: I saw the interview on the MLB Network the other day.
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: Seems like a great guy, great human, great family. Certainly
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: has had a lot of push behind him to get
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: him into the Hall of Fame. I have no problem
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: with that. Like Lance said, Don Mattingly was a household
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: name growing up. He managed like he's still part of
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: the game. He's still a very integral part about teaching
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: the next wave of young players how to play the game.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: And so when you take when you take that into
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: you know, I think everything is you take it all
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: into consideration, and I'd have no problem with him in
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: as well. And so I think sometimes in the U
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: League Baseball Hall of Fame, while I appreciate, uh, the
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: the exclusiveness of it compared to other sports, I think
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: sometimes we get a little bit numbers crazy about you
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: have to have this certain number or that certain number,
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: or I just think in comparison with other hall of Fames,
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: we tend to rely on, uh, these these numbers that
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: you have to reach to be considered or to get
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: into the Hall of Fame, where I think those are
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: two Hall of Fame people baseball figures that that I
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: would be thrilled to have into the go into the
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: Hall of Fame. And I think it would open the
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: door for some other guys that I think are deserving
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: and that that didn't get the vote. I mean even
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: you know, Lance Perkman, Jim Edmonds, like some guys that
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: didn't even make it past the first uh, the first vote, Uh,
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: you know, the first year. I think it's just crazy.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: And so I like the fact that we're going back
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: and and and we have more analytics, we have more
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: stats to look at, we can compare, you know, we
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: can start to look and and and start to look
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: at the steroid era and the numbers that those guys
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: were putting up that were unrealistic to the next era
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: that was being tested. Uh, you know, once a week,
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: twice a week blood tests, you're in tests, and how
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: the numbers did drop off? Uh. And so how do you,
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: I guess, how do you kind of put all that together,
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: uh to decide who deserves to be in the Hall
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: of Fame. I think it's a it's a it's a
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: fascinating I guess question or or or calculation of you know,
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: between the voters and then this this next committee. I'm
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: always on the on the side of put more people
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: in I mean, what's it hurt to have Dyal Murphy
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: and his family, his you know, the organization. I think
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: sometimes our our exclusivity that we we seem to want
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: to brag about or or uh differentiate from the other sports,
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: I think is overblown.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I'm with you about Jim Edmonds, not on the list
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: we were talking about, but that guy redefined what defense
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: is for a center fielder and was also a dominant
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: offensive player. Kind of the guys we mentioned, is there
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: someone that you'd be behind getting in sooner than later
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: or you feel might have been snubbed?
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I really like Alladay bringing up Berkman. I think
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: it's you know, it's talk about year to year, right.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: We talked a lot about what cal Rawley this year
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: doing something that Catcher's never done. You know, I think
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: did something as a switch hitter that you know, set
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: him apart, and you know, I think, you know, those
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: are the type of things that make players special. And
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: I wasn't a hitter, So maybe being a switch hitter
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: is easier because you're always facing the opposite handed pitcher.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't think so that you have to take a
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: little bit more time to work on your swing and
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe one swing's not going good and you're
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: caught on that side of the plate, especially as a
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: lefty face a lot of righties. I mean, I think
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: there's other challenges. So I think that's one thing that
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe I don't know. I'd probably ask holiday like,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: is he the best switch hitter switch hitting power hitter
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: since the steroid era? He might be, so, you know,
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think he have to absolutely be in
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: the conversation.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Also a really really nice guy. Well, the Winner meetings
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: are underway, which means are a lot of players waiting
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: by the phone, waiting to find out where they're going
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: as a free agent or if they're part of a trade.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: We will get to that when we come back from break.
• 21:01
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• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So the hot stove will be heating up the Jim,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I'm a professional broadcaster.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: What did they really didn't like our part.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: They didn't know you were driving your you were driving
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: your car very unsafely last weekend cut out. And so
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: we decided that Jim obviously should read all the way through,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: because that's why he's because that's why he's here.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest. So we made it happen. It's fair.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: It's fair, but also because it's now in play in Missouri.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: The copy changed. You guys were great when you did
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: your little parts. Uh yeah, but we thought it'd be
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a quirker if I just took care of it while
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: we're waiting to get something straightened out.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: But the hot stove, we just do a parlay in
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: in the in the blind this morning in Missouri, so
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: we're good to go.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Everyone enjoys it puts a little skin in the game,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I guess. Yeah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: So you guys have all been there as free agents
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: waiting for possible trades. We've kind of touched on it before,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: but I'm just curious. What's it like winter meetings are
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: going on. I don't think any of you actually walk
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the lobby like some potential free agents do, hoping to
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: see a GM and maybe strike up a conversation. I've
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: seen that before, But what's it like for a player
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: where you know you're on the move or you're a
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: free agent waiting to find out where your family is
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: going to be moving to and kind of waiting by
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the phone or checking social media to see if there's
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: any rumors. I'll start with you, man, what's that like?
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think he wanted to go fast. You know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: I think it doesn't go as fast as you want.
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: It tests your patients, It tests your like probably it
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: tests your agent's patients because of how many times you
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: send a text or call and say, hey, anything new
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: going on. So I think in baseball and and you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: it's it's different than other sports because seemingly in basketball
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: and football, the day that free agent opens, it's like
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: you're cast into a number system and your you know,
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: your performance dictates all these free agents signed. Like as
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: soon as free agent opens in basketball, you're like, so
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: and so signed here, so and so sign here's something
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: from here where. In baseball, Uh, you know, in my case,
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: it went past the new year, and then some cases
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: it goes into February. In some cases it goes into
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: spring training, and so, uh the waiting game and trying
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: to figure out where you're gonna live in spring training,
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: you know, trying to get your family scheduled for uh
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: spring training and where you're going during the season. Uh,
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: it gets a little hectic, It gets a little little
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: nerve wracking. I never went to the Winter meetings. Actually,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: I take that back. I think it was in California.
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: One year, and I went for one day uh to
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: meet with Scott and ended up seeing a couple of
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: gms and passing, but didn't have any conversations. But it's
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: a it's an interesting time, particularly with the the CBA
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: hanging in the balance UH next year. UH So I'm
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: interested to see how that plays out and what effect
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: that might have. I think it's interesting that you're seeing
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: some of these teams, like the Pirates and the A's
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: kind of sending out these I don't know if they're
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: real or not, but like these smoke signals that they're
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: all of a sudden ready to spend money and trying
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: to sign Schwarber, and you know, some of these things
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: that are that are getting floated out there. I think
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: is interesting, but it is it certainly it certainly you
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: wake up every day wondering if this might be the
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: day that you get the offer that you want, and
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: and then you know, kind of coming to the realization,
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: especially if you've been with one team a long time,
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: like kind of visualizing yourself in another uniform. Sometimes that
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: can be difficult.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Well, you never know who's sending up those smoke signals.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's an agent. You never know what to believe
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: when those rumors start churning out about the Winter meetings.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I can't tell this from a media perspective. There's three
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: hundred media guys in a room with like laptops and
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: cell phones out everyone. You're doing interviews, you're talking to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the managers when there's a media availability, but pretty much
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: everyone is watching their phone to see what passings or
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Rosenthal Hayman, one of one of those guys breaks the
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: story and the rest the media jumps on it. That's
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: really what it's like for the media. Otherwise you're just there, Kyle.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: What's it like for a player who's not sure where
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the next step in his career is going to be.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think it can be tough. I
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: think Matt laid it out pretty well. You know, the
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: first couple of times I went through it. Thankfully, it
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: happened pretty quick, you know. I think I was done
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: before Thanksgiving both times. This last time was obviously more
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: difficult because I waited until the end of March to
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: get an offer, But at the same time, I was
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: in a pretty good mental spot where if I didn't
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: get any offers and it wasn't a spot that I
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: wanted to go. Then I was okay retiring, so I
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: almost had to once I got into spring training and
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: March first hit, and you know, my agent was like, well,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: we're kind of waiting on an injury right now, and
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: it just wasn't a spot that I really wasn't enjoyed
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: being at all waiting for somebody to get hurt, because
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: then you show up to spring training and kind of
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: everybody in the locker room understands, you know, he's kind
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: of taking this guy's spot, and it's nowhere you want
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: to be taking over for an injury guy, and when
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: he's sitting in the locker, probably four downs. So yeah,
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: even though it took a long time before this last year,
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: I was in a pretty good spot mentally, understanding that
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: I had a really fun career and was thankful for
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: every step of it and if I got another chance
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: to play, then I got another chance to play. But
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I definitely would say my agent was probably a little
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: bit more on edge because in his mind, he wanted
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: to find me the best spot to.
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: Play, right.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: He knew that I prepared, he knew that I was,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: that I wanted to play, so he was doing his best,
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: and you know, unfortunately it took longer, but you know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: it can be a little nerve wracking, especially if you're
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: in the middle of your career and you expect to
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: get you know, at least a one maybe even a
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: two year deal at the big league level and they're
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: just not rolling.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: In lance when I know your agent likes to take
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the commission off the money you've made in your career
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: and it's pretty big stack. Was it like waiting for you?
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: I think every time it's been different, right, I was
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: like Matt, you know, he got he was at that
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: time my first time going through free agency, I was
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: hoping for like a you know, a four or five
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: year old or a year deal. I was with a
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: couple of different guys, Darvish and Arietta, and I ended
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: up getting the probably the worst deal out of everybody.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: So that's frustrating, right, you go through it. I got
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: a one year deal, and at the time, I think
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: people were rejecting for for you know, who knows what.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: And then when you get a one year deal, it
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: kind of it's a kick in the sack. And that's
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: what I went through my first time. And then it
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: took all the way into spring training and that just
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: beats at you. As Kyle was talking about, like he's
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: try to stay prepared.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: You're just like.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: This, this, this, and you see guys signing and it
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: just it just hurts a little bit because once February,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: like once Valentine's say hits, we're in our in our brain,
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: We're like, hey, we're supposed to be somewhere and it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: not happening and you're not getting what you you know, work,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: you work so hard to get the free agency. You know,
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: seven six, seven years to get to freegency, and it's
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: not there because of the market or you know which
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: teams are involved this or that, So it can it
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: can hurt your feelings a little bit, to be honest.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: And then my next one, I was signed before I
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: was signed during winter meetings, so you know, three months
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: before I was signed the year before when I was
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: supposed to be getting more money. So every year is different.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Every time I've been in free agent was different. So
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: there's no good way to go about it. Uh, you
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: just got to try to stay connected. Uh, you know,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: make sure you have a plan with your agent and
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever comes available, you're ready to talk about
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: it and see what works out and then you hope
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: for the best. But there's no perfect way to do
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: it unless you're like the show Haze of the world,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: and it's pretty pretty easy. But the rest of us
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: have to, you know, see what's out there and see
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: where we go, and the market kind of dictates itself.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Well, gentlemen, I think that's going to bring us to
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: the end of the program. I gotta say that. Lance,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: You're in a car and I think your signal is
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the strongest and the lighting is the best. You look tremendous.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Good luck on uh on bringing home a few carcasses.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Well, the gray, you know, the gray makes everything pop
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: on camera.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Kyle can't grow beard, so he didn't have to worry
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: about it. Yeah.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Matt's got it in there, but he hides it.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: He does well. His boys are his boys are young,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: so they're keeping him young.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: I think when you have it shorter, you can see
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: more of the gray. See the last couple of times.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm going for that.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Takeover.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: You know, I like the I like the gray. You know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: it makes me feel like I deserve to be retired.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: That's my modest distinguished.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a major leaguer who once told me,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the more money I make, the better look,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: And I get that was Lance Lynn.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I did say that I did.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for this edition of Card's Territory,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Lance good luck on your duck hunt. Thank you for
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: watching and listening. By the way, if you subscribe on YouTube,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: we appreciate it. If your podcasting, give us a five
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: star rating. And thanks for watching Cardinal Territory. It's part
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network. Hopefully next edition won't Suckti
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Toddi