Latest / Stronger Business Together / E8 Pivot While You Deliver with Claire Bennett
Transcript
- Granger Forson: business ⁓ owners learn from each ⁓ experiences. No no guru, just real journeys overcoming real hurdles. Today ⁓ I'm joined by Claire Bennett who runs Hornbeam Wellbeing. ⁓ Thank you for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation helped you, please like, comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. every other owner she's in that middle of building things fixing things and growing something that really matters. ⁓ Claire. ⁓ These small actions help us reach more business owners just like you. you want to join the conversation as a guest or have a hurdle question for us to tackle, ⁓ reach out ⁓ info ⁓ strongerbusinesstogether.com. ⁓ go your week successful ⁓ and see you in the next one. Claire Bennett: Hello. Granger Forson: So, act one. Let's learn all about your business. in plain English, what does your business do? Claire Bennett: So we are a training and consultancy company, but we very specifically work in the area of mental health and wellbeing in the workplace, which of course includes a large proportion of inclusion a very important part of what we do. So ⁓ offer ⁓ services ⁓ to demystify what workplace wellbeing and inclusion is because there's of misunderstandings about it. There's lots of fear around that particular area of getting things wrong and how much is it going to cost and all of those kind of things. So we really help businesses to kind of streamline that, understand it, understand what the legal requirements are, but also some of the moral supports and the things that create a much more inclusive and productive workplace. we look at all of that and then we also then bring in our training, which complements those ⁓ services. ⁓ so the training is licensed and accredited. So we've got mental health first aid. ⁓ we cover off suicide first aid. We look at line manager training ⁓ as well as just increasing the understanding of mental health and wellbeing in the workplace and inclusion. So we look at all of those different things, support an organization to maybe consider their strategy and what they're going to do moving forward with, events that they might decide to run webinars or ⁓ or full-blown training programs. So and lots of different things that we cover off. Granger Forson: Okay. Brilliant. Wow. So many different things. So who do you love helping and what are they typically dealing with? Claire Bennett: do you know what most people come to us because they've got maybe sickness challenges stress or they some with individuals within the organization where there's maybe high stress levels or maybe they've got productivity around that. So quite often it will start with stress. I find most of the And then you might also have where ⁓ I, for example, have one particular that that came to us and approached us to help us with their entire strategy because they just didn't know where to start. They didn't feel that internally they had the expertise or understood what they needed to look at. So we've really gone from the very ground up we haven't actually, we've been working together for over a year now and we haven't got to the training bit yet, but that's all planned for this year, ⁓ really started to figure out where they are now and what we can do to support them moving forward. ⁓ people that we are, it's a vast array of different industries and different backgrounds and different sizes of organizations too. Granger Forson: quite big range. A range of services and range of things as well. Okay, so how did you start the What was that original spark? ⁓ Claire Bennett: it's interesting. So I worked for an organization for 11 years, did of kind of ⁓ working skills training, ⁓ presenting, I was a line manager myself for all of time that I worked for that organization. And ⁓ I'd got to point where I really felt like I needed more of a balance. ⁓ I did a lot of travel. I also traveled globally because it was a very large organization. so for me, were the kind of two things. I had the opportunity to take redundancy. And so I decided that after 11 years, that was probably the best route for me. So took that redundancy. some balance, meaning because I've got children and so I wanted to obviously be around more for They were in childcare a lot of the time, whereas ⁓ when I was able to manage my own time commitments, it gave me that balance. They're a little bit older now because I started my business six years ago. So we're now in a position where it seems to work much, much better. And I can dedicate a bit more time to the organization, but it really started because my best friend lives with a mental health illness. She had a very poor experience in a workplace where it she became very unwell as a result of treatment that she had in that particular workplace. there were some real consequences for both the organization and her from health perspective, but also from a legal standpoint. And so for me, there were no winners ⁓ in particular situation. And so I just that no organization should have to go through that and no person should have to go through that either, ⁓ because actually know that the workplace, when it is a safe environment, can be a huge part of somebody's recovery. can be a huge part of someone's self-appurpose and their drive and their motivation and seeps into lots of different parts of ⁓ lives. So I fundamentally felt like ⁓ could make a difference there ⁓ that's Hornbeam came from. Granger Forson: Wow, fascinating start. I can really see that why and that drive that you've put in place to make that happen. Fantastic. I mean, not fantastic reason, but fantastic that you picked that up and drove that forwards. why do your customers pick you? How do you delight them? Claire Bennett: Mm-hmm. Mmm. That's an interesting one. think, so when my business first started, we were just purely training. So ⁓ didn't offer consultancy services. That has grown and I'll talk about that a little bit later. But we started, the training was something that I loved to do and I get huge amount of joy out of it. I love watching people go, ⁓ Right, okay, I get it, I see. And actually remove the fear because if you think about the topics that I talk about, mental health, crisis, all of those things have quite a negative message. And actually there's a huge amount of fear because people feel like they're gonna do something wrong or they're gonna make the situation worse. ⁓ when we go through that training and we really start to see the change in the thought process around it and improving the confidence and belief that actually ⁓ sensitive open conversation can make a massive difference. so I love delivering that and I think that comes across ⁓ my delivery and I have a great team ⁓ ⁓ that work with me who have the same passion and drive that I do. And actually we're known for the quality of ⁓ our we're known for taking it that step further, which is then where the consultancy came from, because we weren't just ⁓ up and doing some sheep dip training. This was impactful training that made a tangible difference in an organization. ⁓ so I think that's what we're known for. Granger Forson: Excellent. ⁓ me about a customer success that you're proud of. Claire Bennett: Oh God, I've got quite a few. So I think there is one particular customer that I am working with at the moment that started by coming to me saying we have really high levels of absences due to stress. They work in a very stressful sector. It's publicly known that's a particular sector is quite challenging. It's a public sector organization and there's a huge amount of pressure ⁓ that environment. so we've been working together for a year now, ⁓ we started with measuring where currently were and we did ⁓ employee welfare surveys, satisfaction surveys, have a at where everybody was. And as a starting point from that. We have done a whole project of work for the last 12 months and what we've seen a massive improvement in terms of focus on wellbeing, understanding that wellbeing is part of everything that we do, as in every work in practice needs to consider whether wellbeing is being thought through, every communication that you have with ⁓ of staff and customers. ⁓ Are we thinking about wellbeing when we're doing that? Are we considering the impact of our decisions? So we've done a whole structure of work and I'm really proud of that because we've recently redid the survey and whilst we've still got more to do, we're gonna be spending the next year really honing down some of those processes that we've put in place as well as complementing that with some training and upskilling for some of the staff members, especially the leadership teams. and we're really looking forward to doing that. But where we've got to from where it was, they've seen a massive reduction in their sickness absence. We've seen people recognising, so through the ⁓ survey, we've seen a massive increase in recognition of understanding what wellbeing is and that it is a priority for the organisation and they can see it in leadership behaviours. And, you know, those were the things which were really kind of low when we looked at it last time. and we've seen a significant uptake in that this time. So that's helping drive us motivate us now for the next 12 months, which is our next kind of project to really ⁓ it a fantastic working environment. So whilst we're not there yet, I'm still really proud of where we've come because it wasn't a great picture and now we're in a much better place. Granger Forson: Wow, that's brilliant. Well done you. Yeah, they must be really delighted with that progress and going forward. Fantastic story. Thank you for sharing. now every business we need leads because leads then we can then process and develop into sales. Okay. How do you generate leads within your business? Claire Bennett: Hahaha No problem. Mm-hmm. I'm not sure I've fully figured it out yet, I've got to be honest. I think there are some of my larger clients, it's been word of mouth, so previous clients have recommended, and actually have quite a few of where that's happening. ⁓ So have been the preferred supplier for mental health first aid training, for example. So in the last 12 months, I've got four new clients who have switched to Hornbeam. ⁓ from previous for that particular course, which is fantastic. And again, that's come from word of mouth. ⁓ They spoken to people who have either been on our courses or have worked us before. ⁓ So recommendation been a really good one. But also for me, think networking has been a great place for me to start to speak to people. So ⁓ if I have the ⁓ to get up in front of people and talk about the organization, then I do that as much as possible. I speak at lots of events try and raise awareness and raise the profile of the organization. So me at the moment, those are the two that bring in most of our leads. But having said that, I know that we've got gaps elsewhere. ⁓ So ⁓ we the right places? Are we reaching the right people? ⁓ not many people find us through our website for example. So we've definitely got work to do but at the moment the recommendations and connecting with people personally have been the drivers of late. Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Fantastic and recommendations is one of the strongest ones because more likely to convert that into a sale when somebody actually says you need to go and speak to Claire, you need to work with Claire and Horbeam because ⁓ at what we've achieved, they are the strongest types of leads that you can have. ⁓ So what are you aiming for for your business in next 12 months? Why you doing that? What's your aim? Claire Bennett: think our aim is really to grow the consultancy side ⁓ the organisation. I will continue with the training. It's a core part of our services and actually, we offer lot of to people that have well established strategies in place. They may not from consultancy because they have really great ⁓ infrastructure and therefore our training lands and the impact is what we want it to be. But I think for the next 12 months, the real focus is we don't want to be known as a sheep dip training company. We want to be known as partners and we want to be known as people that come in and make a real impact into organizations. And for me, that's where the consultancy comes in. a lot of the time, ⁓ for example, you put in mental health first aiders into your workplace, that's fantastic. But if you're doing it to tick a box. ⁓ We want to be known as partners and to be known people that come in and make a real impact into organizations. ⁓ Because a lot of the time, ⁓ if for example, you put in mental health first aiders into your workplace, that's fantastic. But if you're doing to tick a box. ⁓ then it's unlikely to give you any return on investment. Whereas if you work with us to create infrastructure, ⁓ to about best practice, to consider your working practices and what's ⁓ there support your mental health first aiders, as well as ensuring that they're the right type of people that are to help people to come out and want to speak to them. then it's unlikely to give you any return on investment. Whereas if you work with us on consultancy to create infrastructure, to talk about best practice, to consider your working practices and what's there to support your mental health first aiders, as well as ensuring that they're the right type of people that are going to help people to come out and want to speak to them. If you train all managers, great train managers in mental health conversations, absolutely. But if you have... only managers as mental health first aiders you've created a barrier straight away. it's those kinds of things that you know we really see a big difference and well-being strategies don't exist you also see that any training, managers training, leadership skills training, all of that it just falls because the culture isn't there and so really where we feel that we can make the biggest positive impact in workplaces. So it's those kinds of things that we really see a big difference when well-being strategies don't exist you also see that any training, managers training, leadership skills all of that it just falls because the culture isn't there and so that's really where we feel that we can make the biggest positive impact in workplaces. Granger Forson: I like that you know that that pivot to try and add more to your clients to your new clients So actually it all fits together and makes it work ⁓ of that is training but a large part of that is just getting it all organized So it works ⁓ in a fantastic. Well look forward to seeing that over the next 12 months now you develop that so let's move on to act 2 now the journey ⁓ how you the owner you are today, so would you describe the past years of your business? What were the highs and lows? Claire Bennett: I think the highs are new customers. In a small business, one customer says, want to work with you. That is a celebration, right? That's huge. ⁓ Larger organizations, a new customer comes on board and it might not even generate any kind of thought. ⁓ But in small business, it is like, the biggest thing. It's amazing. ⁓ So every time somebody comes to to work with us or we get bookings from existing clients or they keep coming back and asking for more. That me is the highs. That's where I really feel that we're ⁓ driving difference that we want to create. Okay, so those are the highs. And when we get amazing feedback from our clients, which we ask for regularly, every course that delivered has feedback. will formalize that as well so that we're constantly looking at ⁓ how can we improve, are we something, do we need to add something. ⁓ for me, those are the real because when we get those positives, even when you get negative actually in feedback, it allows you to adapt. ⁓ And when you're a smaller organization, course, sometimes that's easier to do than if you're a ⁓ big organization where you've got maybe of red tape to get through. ⁓ I would say those are some of the highs. The lows are months where you've got no bookings where you're sat there thinking, my gosh, ⁓ sometimes sleepless nights about where the next invoice is coming in or is not being paid on time, those kinds of things. Those are the challenges. I think the other challenge, which is important to is that sometimes it can be quite lonely when you run a business, especially with my particular model, which is an associate model. So I've got lots of colleagues and I use amazing ⁓ to help me run my business and to work in my business. But is still predominantly me on my own working individually with my ⁓ clients. And you're someone that really valued that team feel, which I definitely did when I worked for other organisations, it can be quite a lonely place. So you have to find other ways to get that connection that you have got that person to go, I'm having a really tough time, ⁓ need some help, or look what I did, check me out, I did this and it's amazing, and just to get ⁓ support. ⁓ Granger Forson: Yeah, Human connection is such an important part and we ⁓ with the business owners we're shouldering it all but actually just that little bit of connection really helps ⁓ bring it home and to help it. So ⁓ have you learnt about yourself and your business ⁓ those difficult times, those hard times? Claire Bennett: What have I learned? Probably that I'm more resilient than I thought I was, especially when I first started this business because, you know, I didn't have any clients ⁓ ⁓ weeks after I registered the business, Covid hit. ⁓ was like, ⁓ great, ⁓ So I that first year was really, ⁓ was stressful because my plans of how I was going to go out and get these clients when, ⁓ there no opportunity to connect with people or minimal at the time. for the first few months anyway, it was really hard until things started to move online and then that's where you could start to kind of move it forward. my resilience, would say, is something that I've learned about myself. I am more resilient than I think I am ⁓ and more resourceful there has had to be things that I've had to figure out how to do that on my own or find someone that can help me. deliver it. Whereas if you're used to working in an organization where you've got Joe Bloggs who does your IT or you've got up the who does this, you just don't have and you've got to build that from the beginning. So I think maybe I'm a better problem solver than I thought I was also. Granger Forson: Yes, yes. I understand that. So where do things still go wrong when you're under pressure then? Claire Bennett: My stress level still saw and sometimes I might put things off that I probably need to deal with quicker maybe because I'm trying to give myself some space to figure out what to do what to do next and so ⁓ sometimes I have keep grounding myself and reminding it's okay, you've got this network, you've got someone that can help you with that, you know someone that can help you with this. Whereas, I didn't have that at the beginning. whilst, you have all of those challenges, you still have those times, you know, traditionally in training companies, there'll be periods of time where less training comes in, ⁓ you know, anything to with school holidays and things like that. It's gonna get quieter because most organizations stay away from those for training because of course of their staff are on holidays so you have kind of account for some of that and I think yeah sometimes I can still sit there going I don't know what to do I have to remind myself I do actually know what to do and who to go to and you're okay. Granger Forson: Fantastic. one thing maybe you've stopped doing to make it easier and simpler when you said you realized you didn't need to do that, why was I doing it? Give us an example maybe. Claire Bennett: Well actually I think it's more about ⁓ in that kind of structure so instead previously I would have sat there for ages trying to figure out how to do something. What I now do is I go to the people who know how to do those things instead of wasting my time trying to do them you know so I for example I've got a VA now and she's my right arm because there are certain things that I haven't got the head space for, I don't have time to do them. And actually I don't know how to do them very quickly. And it would probably take me hours longer to do it than it would if I just picked up the phone and said, can you help me? ⁓ with IT, know, for a long time, I just try to figure it out myself when it came to IT challenges. But now I have an IT person, and I can just... ⁓ pick up the phone and say, laptop's not working today and I need to deliver training, help me. And they can help me, know, where I didn't kind of have that before. So I would say, yeah, I've stopped thinking that I have to do every single thing and know there are people out there that can do it far more efficiently and much better ⁓ than I do it. And I can then spend my time doing the stuff I need to do. Granger Forson: Fantastic. I really like that. that's an important thing you have to realize when you're building a business and finding the right people around you that can do those elements that maybe sap your energy, but they're good at doing those things. So yeah, brilliant. Right. Let's move on to Act 3, our hurdle or challenge. So what have you picked for our discussion today? Claire Bennett: Yeah. Yes. So mine is about how to continue to build on the consultancy side of the organization, because I feel quite passionately that that's the right way to go. But I've also got to continue with my training element, one, because it is our fundamental source of revenue. It's what we're known for as well. Plus, I really value it, and I don't want it to disappear from the organization. It's a very, very important service that we offer. But when you're trying to grow that one side and still having to deliver that, I think that's probably the biggest hurdle. Granger Forson: Okay, it's approach that we need to do. We need to add more ⁓ the consultancy, the business that will then complement the training activity. ⁓ And it's do we make that happen in the day not in the business. ⁓ so let's break it first Today, ⁓ how time do you spend ⁓ on Claire Bennett: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Granger Forson: lead generation and delivering training versus lead generation ⁓ on and delivering consultancy. What's the split? Claire Bennett: It's probably 70-30 at the moment, so 70 % of the time is more training. still deliver a lot of that myself, as as obviously trying to generate more opportunities for training. ⁓ And the consultancy is probably 30 because that's ⁓ a newer service. And whilst we developed what ⁓ the core service is, and we've now got clients that are using that service, which is amazing, but we to try and build that because the way I visualize it is our training complements the consultancy. We will still have standalone training clients, of course, but that for me just feels like the right thing to do. And so I'm quite passionate about driving that element. So 70-30 split at the moment. Granger Forson: And what would be just theorizing looking forward, what would be an ideal split of time and activity? Claire Bennett: I think I would like to try and get to a 50-50 for now, but that would eventually get to the point where actually maybe it tips more towards a 60-40 towards the consultancy and then the delivery of the training becomes part of that consultancy service as well if you see what I mean. Granger Forson: Yep. So if we set our initial target condition of 50-50, time spent. So happening today, if you just look to your diary and you sit there right now looking at it and said, right, 50 % of my time must be spent on lead generation and delivering on consultancy. ⁓ getting in the way to make that happen? Claire Bennett: Mm-hmm. delivery of training. definitely does, so actually delivering the training myself. Granger Forson: Okay. Claire Bennett: also I'm finding, and this is still actually part of the core consultancy bit, what I am finding is that ⁓ the consultancy clients that have are very broad in terms of their sector. So one of the things that identified recently is that our core service ⁓ is having to be redeveloped whilst we're delivering because might have to niche it for certain sectors ⁓ some of the things need to be tweaked for it to be applicable for that particular area or it needs to be considered and maybe we have to add something else in ⁓ of the maybe unique challenges that that particular sector might have or ⁓ particular industry if it's within the private sector. And I think ⁓ even within that, some of my time when I'm looking at the consultancy, I probably spend more time tweaking and delivering that than I do on the lead generation for it. Granger Forson: Okay, you're spending more time tweaking and changing because of the different opportunities are coming ⁓ up. does mean you're spending, so you said want to get 50 % but you're not getting to % because you're not generating enough revenue that would then... warrant you doing 50 % so you're reliant on the training to try and keep you going. more the case of then that trust in your services to be able to grow within the So what's holding back? You've talked about What's going on your mind? What's going on in the marketplace? Claire Bennett: Yes, so I think the moment, my clients that I currently have, I found the training that I already deliver, all recommendations of people who've recommended me for training. And actually when we've got into conversations, it's turned out we're going to start with a consultancy before we come into the training. And that's how it's kind of developed. ⁓ But I think I'm now finding is that I'm spending Yes, I spend a lot of time doing delivery of training. Yes, that's still a larger proportion of my time. But even within the consultancy 30%, it delivery. I got at the moment to do that lead generation. And my thoughts around that have gone into, it because I'm broad and I'm having to... work on the delivery and tweak those things and sometimes adding new parts that are going to suit that particular sector, you know, the more different sectors that I work in. because services will work for any sector, okay, they have relevance in ⁓ all and all services that are, you public services or any sector you work in really. And so ⁓ I biting off more than I can chew because what I'm doing is I'm developing that bit rather than bringing in more if you know what I mean. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yes and when you go with a consultancy do you have an offer? Can you actually say this is what we offer because you're also talking about your tweaking as well so how do you go to market with your offer? What is it? Claire Bennett: So that's how we started it. So I started with we have our offering to allow them to be legally compliant because there are ⁓ things that organizations need to have in place such as risk assessments and things like that. So we deliver that as part of the consultancy service. We also then have a program ⁓ starting points. ⁓ ⁓ reviews ⁓ ⁓ structure and ⁓ policies and then we obviously make those changes. Granger Forson: Okay, so that's that's Yeah, and jump in there. That's delivery. The offer is what the marketplace sees. The offer is what they go, oh yes, we want that. And if your offer is too broad, how would they pick you? Why would they pick you? Why would they want for you to walk through their door and at least start having a conversation, i.e. sales conversation through that? So what's your offer? You'll go to market then with the consultancy. Is it just too many things, do you think? Thank you. Claire Bennett: Potentially, because there are a couple of different messages, there is improving your wellbeing of your staff, reducing your ⁓ rates, reducing your sickness and absence rates, improving productivity, ⁓ know, all of the things that all the data says, if you've got a good culture and working environment, you're going to generate that. But there's also legal compliance as well. So. ⁓ Granger Forson: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, so. So maybe each one of these different sectors has a different need that and it's your go to market and you won't know till you test it, absolutely, ⁓ maybe what you're doing is you're giving broad spectrum type solution rather than actually ⁓ they to wake up in the morning and I've got a productivity problem. someone just across my desk and look at this it's all about productivity or ⁓ I have staff absenteeism problem. Focusing on a specific message, a specific thing will help them rather than say, look, this is what we can do. We can fix this, this, this, this. you're in the door, that's a different level of conversation, but you just got to get in the door first. ⁓ maybe what you're doing is you're trying to solve many problems at once and they're not understanding that message. Because ⁓ for us, know exactly we do. We live every day. We know precisely how we can solve. Claire Bennett: Yeah. Granger Forson: all those problems yeah but to them we're just saying ⁓ you can do this this this this and this you're not known for anything so therefore it's difficult for people to then latch on to a specific which is hard that's what niching is ⁓ maybe isn't just about niching as sector ⁓ and is actually saying ⁓ this what we're brilliant at this is what we always talk about this is what we can achieve for you yes underneath you can do a lot more and there's a big program to make that deliver ⁓ but more what niching is Claire Bennett: Yeah. Granger Forson: about is your your story. What does that say to you? Claire Bennett: Yeah. Yeah, I think probably we have gone a bit too broad and trying to tick all the, we can do this and we can do that and we can do this and we probably gone ⁓ maybe overboard. if I think about it, what happened? I read all of the research because I was already using that research to ⁓ promote my And actually a lot of it also talks about the infrastructure. ⁓ And so then I just took data ⁓ used that to drive a message. But you're right, there are a number of different messages that it's giving and it might not be reading to everybody because they're like, whoa, that's a lot. Just put the park that to one side. Or message that they pick up on might not be the one that's relevant to them. ⁓ So yeah. Granger Forson: Yes. And it's difficult because we want to get all the message in front of us just in case. But it's then hard to go to market because you've got four different messages. You've got four different ways of talking about things. You've got four different things on your website. How many websites do you go to and you see six or seven things. We do this, we do this, we do this. Actually, what's the one big problem that you could solve? The purpose of that is just to open the door so then you can then have a conversation. That's when you can present the... Claire Bennett: Hmm. Granger Forson: the detail of everything you do and the changes and the opportunities, etc. fine. That's absolutely brilliant. So all that research you've done is there. Once you get the conversation going, you just got to get the conversation first. Same really focus might ⁓ you to really ⁓ that go to market, ⁓ is niching, but not niching in the same way as you were thinking. Maybe you were thinking about niching around ⁓ different but actually niching might just be niching ⁓ on message. Claire Bennett: Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, that's a really good point. Definitely something I'm take away and have a think about what's gonna be the strongest message and we'll, ⁓ definitely. Thank you. Granger Forson: and you won't know until you try. Claire Bennett: Hmm. Yeah. Granger Forson: That's the thing. Yeah, we can spend too much thinking we learn through experimentation. The market responds by it actually talking back to you. So have to get there first with something and start experimenting and seeing. ⁓ And exactly what we've done ⁓ with stronger business together. ⁓ We've everything. We only have one product and service. We only have one go to market. We only have one structures that we talk about because we realize that we were also doing far too much and you're trying to shout into the wind where now we're trying to be very focused. it's good thoughts there. I ⁓ like to know, what's one experiment that you could do this week to see if this idea might start to bear fruit for you? Claire Bennett: So I'm going to look at some of the key different messages and then I'm going to pick them in order as to which ones I'm going to trial first and figure out how am I going to measure that coming back in. So how do I measure if that's the right message or not? So I need to put a bit of thought and planning around that so that I can then start out some of those different messages, I think. Granger Forson: Yeah. And here's the reality. The reality is... We believe in a principle called growth through challenge. So that's one of our four fundamental principles for a business. What we mean by that is ⁓ not know what the outcome of that is for maybe six months of continuous trying. ⁓ you have to focus, you have to go based on gut instinct, you have to go based on all the data and analysis you've done. You have to pick something and you have to throw your weight behind it knowing that at some point ⁓ will happen because that's what the really successful business do you just have to fight through those difficult times like ⁓ maybe I'll just change the message today because I haven't heard anything back yeah you have to trust your instinct do the analysis work out we want to go and go for it Claire Bennett: Mm-hmm. Perfect. Yes, I'm going to go in and do that. Thank you. Granger Forson: Awesome, brilliant, right, so let's go to our wrap up and close now. So Claire, what did you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Claire Bennett: Probably, you know, I don't have to be the person that does everything because it is a message I have to keep reminding myself. So when you ask that direct question, I'm like, right, okay, I've really got to, yes, I cannot do all of it. And I cannot do all of it well either. So yes, that's probably the biggest surprise for me that I'm still, I'm able to keep bringing that back and reminding myself. Granger Forson: Ha ha ha. thank you for your honesty that's brilliant fantastic can people find you if they want to follow more on your journey Claire Bennett: So they can find me on LinkedIn, so Claire Bennett on LinkedIn. can find us on our website, so hornbeamtraining.co.uk, where be able to see all of our kind of different services. ⁓ We're on other socials, okay, so we're all over the TikTok and whatnot, so you'll find it under hornbeamtraining if you're looking for us on any of the other social platforms. ⁓ Granger Forson: Well, fantastic Claire. Thank you so much for being open and honest with us today and I know our listeners will take a lot from this great conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Claire Bennett: Thank you so much for having me Granger, thank you.