Latest / Mental Health Matters / Wellbeing for Entrepreneurs

Transcript

Wellbeing for Entrepreneurs · Mental Health Matters

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Mental Health Matters with me, Dr.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Audrey Tang.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: And me, Judith Crozier.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is the show where we talk about all things mental health and well-being, and we dive deep into all the topics, and we have the best guests on the show.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually a two-parter show.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've missed last week's, please go.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: It will already be published.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So please go back and listen to that.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking with Felicia Jones, who remains our guest this week, and we were talking last week about the archetype of the career professional woman and the trad wife.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we came to the conclusion that so much of that is choice.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it was your choice, it's your choice, and everybody else should bat out.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: This week we're pulling out a little bit more of some of the mental health issues that can affect the career woman or the career professional, whoever, male or female, anyone anywhere in between as well.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot in being an entrepreneur that I think is missold to us.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we can be sold all the good things about it, and then the difficulties about it are sometimes not spoken about widely.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the same social media issue again, because everybody who looks outwardly successful, and you have to promote that because that's your brand.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Who is going to want to buy from a brand that doesn't look successful?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it can hide all of the things that are really causing people stress.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Keeping your accounts, renting a premises, doing all the stuff that you maybe dislike, like pitching for clients or um accounts or whatever those things might be.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think if we can get real about it, it will help people who are thinking about going into running their own business.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it and also it can it will then give everyone who's thinking about it an idea about what goes on behind the scenes that is not that isn't visible.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually what you have to do.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what the truth is behind the social media.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I r responded to a post that Felicia recently put on LinkedIn about entrepreneurship, and she's just said, what are some of the things that people don't know about being self-employed?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I always talk about is my students.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever I said to them, so I got I'd been self-employed for four years, and on the fourth year I finally turned a profit after paying all my bills.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Fourth year, so it took me that long to actually make a profit.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say to my students, how much do you think I made?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they go, 30,000.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: They go, 50,000, 100,000.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wished, oh my god, it was 30 pounds.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was 30, but I was so proud of that 30 pounds because I had paid all my bills and I had that much left over.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's the reality of entrepreneurship.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's it in a nutshell, you know.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Every single person that teaches about entrepreneurship should should say that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And be honest about it, because I genuinely feel the people who are turning their 10,000, they're selling their cause on how to turn over 10,000 disciplines.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's like a little funnel, it's like a um pyramid scheme.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna get into this with Felicia.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: We do still have her on this show because she's absolutely brilliant.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's welcome her back.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So on this week's mental health matters, we've actually done a double episode.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: So really, we're kind of still talking about partly what we did last week.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So go back and listen to that episode if you haven't.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we couldn't fit them all into two hours.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: We've got the wonderful Felicia Jones of Stressless Living.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: She's a stress consultant and a nutritionist, and the two sit together so beautifully.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we have been talking last week about um the social media concept of the trad wife and also the career woman, yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: These almost archetypes that women strive to do.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're going to move on to pulling out what career woman actually means and talking about entrepreneurship because this is something which I think can sometimes sell us a false narrative, a false myth, and and and this is the issue.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the first question I have for you on entrepreneurship and career woman, professional woman, is entrepreneurship is sold as freedom, flexibility, you know, you get to do everything, you do get to have it all.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how close is that to the actual reality?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've been a little bit sarcastic there.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little, just a little.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, we're we're all in business, so we you know we do know the reality of it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: But when we're actually looking at the stats, it's something like seven to eight percent of businesses fail in the first year, and 40% fail in year five.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when I look back to say 10 years ago, it was the the stats were generally that in year seven, or maybe year eight, people were actually failing in business.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we can see already the immense pressure that's been put on people and say that you know more businesses are actually failing.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: That that is the sad reality, and there's lots of different reasons that we can talk about for that.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I did some research and I found um a research piece by the accountancy partnership, and it was so much of it was really interesting.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing that stood out was that they said 50.7 percent of small business owners had actually considered going back into traditional paid work in the last year.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's like and then they started stating you know the reasons for this.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: They did actually say that you do have freedom, absolutely, and that's for some there's more work-life balance, but they also said about the additional um challenges, and let me just see, I've written some of those down the rising costs, inconsistency workload, yeah, and unpaid labour.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And one point that I wanted to pick up on was the unpaid labour because I don't know about you, but I'm constantly seeing people in my field giving things away for free, and that gives a uh a really unrealistic picture of what it takes to actually do this work.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I know as well that people don't like going from this is free to I'm going to try and charge you now.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, that's true.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: They want free as well, but they just call it a taster.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So come in and taster to see if you fit for our organization.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you've put so much effort in, you've trained for years, you're you're you know very good at what you do.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: There should be some kind of remuneration, and I think that's not always the case.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yes, we have the flexibility, yes, it can be great having your own business, but you also have to be really disciplined because you've got things coming at you all the time, and if you're not able to navigate those and you're just enjoying the freedom, the business doesn't last very long.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I think that that's a very key point.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also I'm really glad you pointed out the the thing about people want businesses wanting to get things for free.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because there's a whole BBC documentary, uh, this is a couple of years ago, and this was for job um applications, they would get you to design a whole brochure or whatever as part of your application process.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Go and use it and not give you the job.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just people aren't doing it, and I think it's really great that you shed light on some of those bad behaviours in business.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in a way, on the one hand, I get why people then leave the business in order to go and start up their own, but bad behaviour is bad behaviour and it can follow you wherever you go.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen that in teaching interviews as well.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So teaching interviews are generally ordinary.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm moving to a number where they um they get you to almost write a policy.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm sure that they're literally using candidates as you know, oh we're getting them to write a new policy about something.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure that that's kind of what that's for as well.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's the unpaid work, isn't it?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and sort of relating to the unpaid work, which is a which is a big thing in itself, what other things are going on behind the scenes that people don't see that are causing so much stress and burnout for entrepreneurs, especially starting out.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, if you're looking at um, you know, failure in year one or year four, and how long it actually takes to build a business, when you first start, you're doing everything.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you're doing the marketing, you're doing the promotion, you're doing the networking, you're doing all those things to actually bring people in.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're also doing all the finance, you're doing the accounting, you are doing all of that until you have a team, but then you have a team and you have to still manage a team.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: You might not be good.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh who is good at everything?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because then you also have to deliver, yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I have to also do CPD to be able to maintain my licenses, so you've got all of these different things that you need to do and to know, and I didn't know that when I was starting out.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes my week can consist of 50% of marketing.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a marketer, I've become very good at it, but it's not actually what I do.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: But that's you know, that's the thing that's actually put out there, and I think we can have this distorted kind of image of what it actually means to be in business and not understand that there's actually building your business, there's working in your business, and there's also building yourself to be able to function in in business.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for some people there's a lot of loneliness if they haven't worked um on their own before, because you know I can go all day and I'm not actually speaking to anybody or creating something, and even if I'm like I'm doing this this um podcast now, but then after that I could be doing something else where I'm I'm not speaking to somebody, and if you're not comfortable with yourself, that can really um start uh irritating you to the extent you might question whether I should be in you know in business or not.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And another thing that can happen, and it has happened to me, is that it it can affect your self-esteem because you have so many no's.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can pitch to 10 organisations, maybe 15, and I'll get a what a yes from one or uh a maybe, and then you follow it through, and down the line it's a no.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you can say I've learned from that, that's been a great development experience, but still you haven't got that client, and you know you've got to do it again and again.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I'm I I love that you're really talking about this and mental health because I think we need to take this seriously.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's not that much research actually done in this area.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you look at people who are successful, hugely successful, like um when I think of fashion editor Isabella Blow or designers Alexander McQueen or Kate Spade or the founder of um Reddit yeah of Reddit, sorry, um Aaron Schwartz, they were hugely successful in what they did, and there were a lot of other factors, but sadly they took their own lives.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we can promote being an entrepreneur as this whole panacea to escaping the workplace, but not really give a good depiction of there are going to be things that you're not going to like, and it could be a long season of that.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and do you think that social media has created what quote unquote the successful entrepreneur should look like?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, how can that, if so, how can that be damaging to people who are just starting up um you know their own micro business, for example?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, brilliant question, Jude.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think for sure, because when you're starting out or when you you know you really want to do well and you're you're trying to navigate, like you know, there are books that tell you how to to start your own business, but you don't really know.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's a kind of try it, test it, see what doesn't worry, and then try it again.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, but I think yeah, and on social media we have so many people promoting a masterclass or a course or follow this, and I've done it myself.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: You you can get sucked into that and find that the course isn't that great, they really don't know what they're talking about.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: It can be not only so much of a waste of money, but also that can affect your self-esteem because you can't start thinking to yourself, I should have been able again from the last show.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: I should have been able to, I should have been able to do this and and and I can't, or you can get really sucked into following the latest person who says, I you know was really struggling and now I have this multi-million business.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you stop losing a sense of yourself, your identity, and what you need to do to move forward.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, just something to add there some of these multi-million businesses are like pyramid schemes.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, they are.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Often sell it to the next person, and then that brings in the money for those trainings and things like that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when we that's not the sort of business I want to be in.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, same or most people, you know.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that and that's not a really realistic picture of of a business, is it?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, exactly right, no.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So so still on social media, then what presses do you think that um social media has created that maybe weren't there before social media?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I think you know, there's there is this unrealistic expectation.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, if you look back to years ago when you wanted to put on an event and you design a poster through a this is going back a long, long time.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: You do that, and and a printer would print it off, and then you'd go around, you'd post it places, or you you'd give it to people, and then years later you were able to do it on your laptop, on your PC, and you you have a printer, you could do it yourself.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now we create things and it goes straight from our phone or from our laptop onto social media, but that negates the amount of effort that we've actually put into that, yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Into thinking about who are we actually trying to reach, how are we going to craft this message?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can spend ages on Canva finding all of the lovely images, and and and that takes effort, and then you do that and it doesn't get much traction, and that can be really disheartening.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think as well that social media has changed what its purpose is.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think of LinkedIn, and before that used to be business to business, or it used to be organisations um finding the people they wanted, or entrepreneurs collaborating with other entrepreneurs, but now it seems to be all about you know what award have I got, which are then I you know there's no kind of level playing field, and there's all this material out there which can make you feel that I'm not part of this, I'm not part of this successful business because I'm not putting out the same kind of thing, and so you know, we have to remember social media is social, so it's supposed to be something that we gave engage in and it's pleasurable, but I think beyond that, we all know that it it's dopamine-inducing the algorithm work on that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: The more you put in, the more you put in, the more you put in, the more likes you're supposed to get, you know.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that that's not necessarily the case.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: I have lots of people that I really respect, and they have less than a hundred people actually um you know liking liking their posts, and so we can have this this really kind of um idea that likes mean success.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Not the case at all because likes don't necessarily translate into exactly success.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's just I've seen you, I know you, I'll take a box.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And go back to your poster analogy.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that because it just in my mind that was so calm and stress-free.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you'd yeah, you might print off a hundred posters on your little printer and go and stick them up on trees, whatever.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: But but that was the end of it because people either saw the poster and came or they didn't.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now there's so much pressure to respond to people that have asked you a question on the post that that that work kind of carries on, doesn't it?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's where the stress part of the stress comes from.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And also when you were talking about that, so go it is the posters again.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember this is many, many years ago.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I used to sell advertising space for our programs when we did shows, so we raised money for charity, and it was like, you know, five of them half a page kind of thing.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I went door-to-daw to businesses to do that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I may built up my confidence in doing that sort of thing, and I don't have the confidence to do that now all the time, admittedly.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: But Billy, when I'd done that, they would also come to see the show because they saw me, I could talk about it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was a missing.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that we're missing that because you just shove it out there and you're right, it's likes, but they don't translate into connection.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is a great conversation.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Be back with after a clip from The Last Time Felicia was on our show.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, you've worked in these, we say toxic, I've worked in them, and and it, you know, it can be very, very uncomfortable in those situations.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I think, and and this can feel uncomfortable for people because they're just like, you know, I just want to move on, but getting somebody who's a third party, somebody who doesn't know you as well as you know, a relative or a best friend, but somebody who can be a third party who you can use as a soundbold.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because when we're talking about stress management, we often talk about um unhelpful thoughts.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: When you're in these these environments, every thought you have near enough is they're gossiping about me, yeah, this, they're that.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: You have these unhelpful thoughts.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: So having you know a third party who can say to you, you know, really, were they, or yeah, you're right on.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And if you feel after you've had that conversation, I am justified in what I'm thinking, then use the protocols, the policies that are there to address that situation, speak to a manager about it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's to the extent where it escalates and nothing is done, then sadly sometimes you have to think, is this not the right environment for me?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because as well, you know, obviously we're talking about mental health, but that mental health can go into your physical health, and if it starts if impacting you on that that level, it can end up being that you know you you do get very ill.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Mental Health Matters, where we're talking about entrepreneurship and mental health with the brilliant Felicia Jones of Stressless Living.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so talking about um you know our professional brand, when might that blur with our personal identity and is that always a bad thing?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And connected to that, when and how do we switch off from it from the professional side?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, really good question, Jude.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know, we've all heard who are your brand and be visible.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we're people, we're not somebody with a label attached to us, we're we're not actually a brand.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think we all know on social media that we have the highlight wheel that people are actually fitting the best out because you want to engage people, you want to put out things that are positive, and I think visibility is important.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: People don't know you, they need to actually see you and know who you are, you know, just a bit a little bit about you.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that what I'm seeing is this tendency is for people to be putting out um inappropriate material, I think sometimes, or oversharing.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, yeah, we're all thinking of certain posts now, CEOs crying.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, yeah, and when that actually happens, it feels like there's no level playing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, do I join in and do that?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or it makes me feel really uncomfortable.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do that, but if I don't do that, you know, and all of that stuff can actually happen.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for me personally, I think of when I go, I do a lot of walking and I go out for long hikes with my husband, and I recognize that sometimes I'd be taking a picture and I'd be thinking, Oh, this would be good for social media.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, and I had to stop because it was distorting our enjoyment of the experience, and it was always like not everything is appropriate, you know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm running my courses, a lot of times I don't take Pictures, I don't even ask because it's not appropriate, the material isn't appropriate.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: But you see people putting things out there that are um you know about their family or um about people that have you don't think that they've actually asked for consent about it, you know.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I am very um cognizant really about about not only what I'm putting out there but how I operate in business, and so I have got a coach, and after my six-month review, I talked about the amount that I'm going to use social media and don't gasp at this, I go in once a week, and you know, or I I I use a scheduler, and I know that's not trendy, that's not what we're supposed to do, but that actually works for me.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I have a cut-off time, I you know, only engage in certain things, and I was recognising that I was watching this material that was positive business, you know.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody who'd been in business and and really come from nothing, and then they'd worked a lot and and they'd achieved.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there is a sense of, yeah, I love seeing that for you know overcoming adversity, but after a while I just didn't feel great and had to recognise you you need to stop because this isn't actually making you feel better, it's actually elevating your business, so stop, you know, so really stop doing that.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing that I am a real advocate for is people taking time off because at the beginning I wouldn't take any time off, I was just really um afraid of missing clients, and that never happened.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And as you go through the years, you recognise taking time off is really good for your mental health, and the people who work with you I think really appreciate that as well.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess our conversation is always coming back to knowing who you are.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and embracing it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you think there's a a risk of um our self-worth being tied to visibility or to income?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think it can be, absolutely, because you know, when we're we're talking about visibility, and I don't even know when when this actually came in about being out there and really projecting yourself.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I did about four years ago, I did a course with a scheduled platform called Later.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it was you know, it was quite useful.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing that stood out was that they said post three times a day.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, oh my goodness, it's insane.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, listen to this.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that was insane.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but they have really successful influencers like Greg Cardone, who says post 10 times a day.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh he's got a team.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: How can you possibly compete with that?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And unless you're really strong in yourself, isn't that a little bit of inkling of wanting to not compete, but wanting to actually do that?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: That is the thing to want to actually do that, and um I think as well that um we we can just get so sucked into doing these things that aren't what we really want to what we really want to do, and then producing material that isn't what we really you know what we really want.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think you know, for visibility, um I often think if you're posting all the time, even if you've got a scheduler and and that's part of it, if you're posting all the time, when are you actually working?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's true.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Good point.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, you can if you're posting every single day, there must be a lot of times that that you're not actually working, and you know, there's a difference between posting material that you really care about and that you think is really valuable, even if it doesn't actually get any traction, but actually putting things out that you you believe in versus just putting things out to get an audience as if you know you you're an actress on on a stage, I think that does something to you because that's not who you are in business, that's a whole part, you know.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think I think there is that about visibility and income can be a determiner.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is really important, but I think going back to this conversation we had before about giving things away for free, I think it comes down to your purpose to what you really believe in, because I do things for free because I'm a member of um you know a charitable board of two charitable boards, or there's things that I really believe in that I will give some time free, but it's because it actually aligns with me and my values, so we don't have to do everything for income, that means I need to be visible to when we're set.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's my opinion.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's very wise.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very wise because your point there about how people who post 10 times a day have a team to do it, it is impossible to live up to that.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, there's no point comparing yourself to that because you're not going to be able to do it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And do you want that type of person coming into your being one of your clients anyway?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's always the question I ask myself is I I want the right type of client to see this, and yes, I don't therefore need everybody to look at it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go back to LinkedIn and talk about um yes, it has become a bit, I've won an award in this and I've and then I do, and I do that as well.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But in some cases, awards and titles can give you some credibility.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my question is is there a place for that as well as putting stuff that is actually helpful to people as opposed to what we call willy waving?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what you call it?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't heard of that.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I'm not against awards, I think that that you know it's really great for people to have recognition.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: But when I started turning away from awards, is when I recognised that you have to pay for some of them, and for some of them, you have to pay quite a lot.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and maybe think who's actually voting and who is actually bringing credibility to this.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: That that for me just felt like like quite a sh a strange thing because I think actually understanding what's credible now and what's not can be you know really challenging.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I still believe in it it's old school, it's slow, but in doing referrals to people because you really like what they do, because you've got to know them, building up that professional relationship and being able to to you know to to share for me that is an award.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you're good at what you do, yes, I'm going to bring business to you because I you know I think that that you're good and I want people to actually work with you, and I I really like building that deeper relationship, and I think it it comes down as well to our expectations.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: So if we look and we expect people who have awards to be a certain thing, it can be quite disappointing when they're not.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've met people who've won awards, yes, and their manner has been outrageous, to be fair, or they they've just not been professional, and I've been so shocked because I I don't know, I just thought that actually being an award awarded an award was part of you and out as a professional, and that's not always the case.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad that you're really highlighted behind these things.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's often something that we may not have thought about.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's really true, and I think the other thing is it's about knowing if some are paid for when other people are going, oh, this has happened.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can sit there and go, yeah, but let's all be honest about what has happened here.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at people and kind of go, I know the situation behind this, so this is interesting how you're using it, and it does give me a new impression on what they are and who they are really.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't even know that it's a thing.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a thing, it's nothing.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's a business.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: The whole business, the whole business.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: So sort of relating to that then, have you seen experienced clients who seem really, really successful, um, but actually they have admitted to not being able to hold it all together?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's the case, are there any common themes?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just give you a very simple example.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: One common theme I see in my clients, and this is not entrepreneurs, I have to say, but when they're burnt out, it's not work that's causing the burnout, it's social.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's relationships, it's stuff going on, it's not the work in actual fact.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Even though workers sent them to me, work is great.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, interesting.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, by myself, I love um being in business because I love what I do, and I'm able to be open and share that you know things that don't go that right that well because I'm in the well-being field, and so that's you know, that there is that expectation, and you know, my audience they they relate to that kind of thing.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm seeing, and we've kind of talked a little bit about this before, kind of two different things, and seeing either um one kind of successful or projecting to be successful out there, and they're um really showing their um abject poverty to desperate richness story, you know, and and and how that all was, or they're trying to fit in with people, and so they're they're oversharing the what I call bleeding.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's helpful at all, and then the other is people that are just posting all the time, look at my shiny new house and my car, and you know, and um all my perfect life, and that isn't uh attainable either, yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that can make you feel that you sit outside of what a successful business can actually look like.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's not many people that um take a picture of themselves when they get out of bed and they're like, I really don't want to drive that, you know, and then like later on in the day, this business meeting I had it was terrible.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: You don't see that, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: We just see um different kinds of of product uh of um images which I think aren't necessarily that helpful, and I think to your point, that burnout.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: There are quite a few videos now from successful women who are actually saying I couldn't let go, I felt that I had to keep on this treadmill to just keep on going, and then they burnt out.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of burnt-out stories out there, and I I you know I don't object to those, I think that they really are are useful, but to actually show that it's not that that easy in in business, and it also comes back to people feeling that if I'm not doing this, what will my identity be?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And what will people say about me?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's very deep.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's the what will people say about me?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a fear that a lot of not just women but professionals hold because you've built this brand and then suddenly you change the brand, and that's where you this is this is something else to bring up, that's where you suddenly see all these Chat GPT created posts about how people have pivoted and changed.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not because I wasn't successful, not because I wasn't this, not because I wasn't that, but because that is the style of the ChatGPT post, that exact phrasing.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at that and then I just go, oh, why can't you just be honest that you did something, it didn't work because honestly, I can learn more from that than trying to get ChatGPT to write a standard post which makes you sound like you use Chat GPT quietly.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's about honesty, I think.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we much prefer that, don't we?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: People just to be honest and go, yeah, it didn't work, I'm gonna do something else.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we learn more from that as well.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Felicia, it it is really, really good to talk to you.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: We are gonna keep you, and we'll be back just after a clip from the last time you're on the show.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's this thing that drives me crazy.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: At Christmas, it's all about excess, eat everything you can, have as much as you can, don't do anything that's healthy.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: January we get to right, forget all of that, start being healthy, go to the gym, eat well.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's true, you know.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: As you were saying in your intro, get to the end of January, over.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because we haven't had the tools really to help us sustain it.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: When we get to, you know, February, March now, then it's that guilt that comes in.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: I should have done it, and all of that.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for me, I always um speak to people about lapses, and a lapse just means that you've fallen off the horse, and it's natural, it's something that happens for all of us, but often we don't think about that as we get excited about doing the goal.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we can we can guarantee that at some stage a lapse is gonna happen, life gets busy, you know.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna go to the gym, and just for that day it's closed, or something like that, or you go to buy your ingredients for a recipe and they're not there.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: These things happen.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, my thing is always you know, these lapses are going to happen, know that they're going to happen, and in a way, prepare for them.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Mental Health Matters.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking to the fabulous Felicia Jones from Stressless Living.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about entrepreneurship and the mental health issues that it can generate that go behind the LinkedIn brand and the the image, and that's the word we've been using a lot that we all see or people try to project.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go to the healthy side of things.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: What, in your professional opinion, do you think a mentally healthy entrepreneur looks like?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is my perspective from being in business and working with other professionals who've been in business as well.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um it's taken me years, or I don't think I know it's taken me years to actually get to this point and in recognising everything I did wrong.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as well, yes, the things that I have done right, but recognising what I did wrong, and I think um a lot of before or a lot of things I've done before have been investing in things because I wanted to get a result, so invested in courses or in software or different things like that, but I didn't know anything about, so it cost me financially, but it also cost me emotionally as well because when they didn't work, when I wasn't ready for the course or I didn't know what I was doing with the software, I felt inadequate, and that made it even harder in business, you know.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I look back now and it's almost embarrassing.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I recently rejoined a membership that I used to be part of, and I'd um been with them over 10 years ago.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: The information isn't that different now, but I was so impatient at the beginning.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, you know, I'm gonna um sort this all out, and this isn't going quick enough, and I didn't actually follow the things that they said that I should have done, and so I ended up leaving that and then following lots of other people or doing lots of other courses, and it was just so disruptive, it wasn't helpful at all.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when we're looking at you know what it means to be helpful, I think this is obviously putting your own definition on as well.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: I have a morning routine uh you know that I do, and I did it before it was before it was even trendy, you know.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like in the morning, I have my prayer time, my journaling time, I do some activity, I do some mindfulness, just get myself in a place of this feels really good.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is how I'm gonna tackle the day.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't just you know wake up and just see what's on my phone.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you're going to follow people, follow one person or two people, don't follow all of the people because it's conflicting information and it's it really isn't gonna get you faster than that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Have a network, have um accountability buddy, have a coach, have a mentor, and yes, you will have to pay for these, but this is an investment in yourself.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you look at the return from actually having somebody say, Well, have you done it?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You said you were gonna do it, and you haven't done it, that pays dividends, or you're going down the wrong line, and somebody is going to actually say to you, I've been where you've been before, and I wouldn't go there, yes, and save years, you know.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there are a lot of things like that that that we can do to just identify what is actually helpful to us, what isn't actually helpful, and to and to put those in in place.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we as entrepreneurs are also leaders, we're leading our teams, we're leading our clients, but we've also got to lead ourselves.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got to take that time out to be able to assess what's working, what's not working, and if something's not working, pull off the plaster and you know, go into what can actually help you, you know.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said before I had this thing about having time off, I was really frightened of what I call F O C M, and it was fear of oh F O M C fear of missing clients.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of FOMO, fear of missing clients.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I'd have my phone on all the time, and you know, I'd have to keep looking at my emails all the time because I would be fearful that I would miss an appointment.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's not what actually happens at all.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's really wise words.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Very.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the point just to want to pull back out because I know we we have talked about this earlier, about those causes that you invested in.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do see a lot of people investing in causes which are the business causes, the earn 10k in two weeks kind of thing.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: However, their methodology is absolutely sound.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about having a funnel and a sales funnel and then the one key masterclass or whatever it is you're offering.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: What they don't tell you, and this is just what I recognise from the people who are doing these courses, if your masterclass isn't something that everybody wants, you're not gonna make that sort of money anyway.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, not everybody's masterclass is going to be what people want.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: The masterclass that everybody wants, which is why you're making 10k, is how to make 10k in two weeks.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And until somebody sort of points that out and goes, Yeah, but how much need is there for neurodivergent people who are looking to find their self-you know, or whatever it is, there isn't.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's more niche, isn't it?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: And unless we realise that and realise that therefore that marketing may not do that particular thing, this is where the causes can go wrong.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love your point, and you have just done a really given me a great example of of a healthy entrepreneur.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what does success look like for you now?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what do we need to start sort of start learning about what success ought to look like, perhaps?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: I will preface this by saying this is years in.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is a you know, I started my business yesterday and this is how I feel today.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that it's always trendy to talk about purpose, but for me that's that's where it actually comes down to what do I want to put out into the world and how do I want it to be received.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, years ago I was very much focused on the impact that I wanted to have on people and how they actually received it, and it might sound funny, but I'm not doing that anymore because I don't want the responsibility, it's not my responsibility to actually activate how it's received.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: But what I can do is ensure that I put out the best material, that you know, my focus is educational and trying to help people to navigate that, that it's honest, that it is professional, that that it's true, and that it's in my voice, you know.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the things that I actually look at being successes, and when I get paid for them, then that's an additional, um, you know, an additional bonus for for that.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, there's there's that that aspect, but as we talked before, for me, it's am I mentally and physically well?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm having periods and I have had these periods in business where I'm like, oh, what am I doing?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: I feel really and and that's gone on, that that's not actually being healthy, and and you have to really question is this business good for you?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Are you able to actually do it?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's hard, it's really actually hard to have that conversation with yourself, but not everybody is made for a business journey, which is is is challenging, you know.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if if you've had a business and it hasn't been challenging, then please contact me now.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be running a course, yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I'd go on that course, yeah.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really important to voice that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and looking at online again, um, like you say, we might be getting better at spotting those chat GBT um posts.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: But how can we tell the difference then between someone who's really good and really successful and someone who's just good at marketing?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's funny that you said that because I speak to so many people who say, Oh, I've read this and you can tell that it's chat GBT, but still people are still consuming it.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some kind of level where we're more engaged in in that than you know than we used to be and I think particularly when we're we're looking at at writing I mean I really love um chat GPT as an assistant I use it as an assistant I don't use it to write all my copy and particularly you know for articles that I'm I'm writing for other people because it's my voice that's really important to me and people often comment and say oh I like the the way you actually write this and you phase it because you're exactly the same when I meet you in person it's actually your voice and I think some people feel that that their their voice isn't good enough that you can actually do it um through chat GBT but I I think um you know there there was something that I um watched a programme that I watched and it was just so natural it was just flowing it was just really really interesting and chat GBT can't do that or any of those IR tools can't do those nuances and those things that go wrong those glitches those little bits that we feel aren't professional or you know the way that we talk on this show sometimes we'll say something and it's not scripted you know and that makes for a really interesting conversation and I don't get that with with with a with AI I think it becomes robotic and the material you put out there becomes really robotic and that's when you I think you become part of the the programme the tool really rather than actually um really trusting yourself that you have got the ability so just use it as an assistant ask questions get answers look at that yes can that actually help me but don't use it to craft everything that that you you do that that's just my my take on it that's great advice it is important it's um it I always get to this point in the show where I just think you know this has been such a great conversation we can talk forever yeah it has come to the point where we have to say goodbye to you Felicia thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and to cover two excellent shows raising points that we have not perhaps voiced as much as needs to be no you're right voiced so thank you for that and thank you always for being so yourself self-aware open with what you're sharing and really helpful in everything that you say and keeping it real as well which is so important.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: If people are looking to find you now how can we get in touch I'm on stress is living and so my website is stressorsliving dot co.uk and on social medias it's either stress is living or Felicia Jones Nutrition.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing thank you so much Felicia we will go over to test the trend on this week's test the trend I really want you to think about what you're consuming.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: So let's think about our social media usage.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: So Jude the question for you is of the things that you see on social media what do you like and why?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing um oh what do I like about social media I like I like it when in the old days when every single thing that came up was a post from your friend and they were saying what they were doing.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I like I love that yeah so that's what I like and um I think when I scroll and I suddenly an hour goes that's what I'm looking for to engage with people I actually know.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I love that I love that okay so keep that in mind that you like and why you like it.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: The next question is what do you sometimes find yourself getting sucked into and panicking about um oh well I belong to a Facebook group which is one of my other jobs which is all about that so hundreds of people over the country doing the same job as me.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of those posts come up so I must engage with it a lot actually so it's all about the issues about that job and then I find myself going into them answering their queries and then yeah going when that's not why I went on there in the first place.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ah so you get drawn back into something that you were probably once part of that you're trying to move away from well I'm still part of it but I don't want to be that involved with it anymore.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: So really I should leave the group.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say so in that case the only way we're going to be able to start seeing more of what we like is if we stop engaging with the stuff that we don't like.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that just sounds so logical but we don't do it.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: I now mute.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't want to unfollow because it looks bad I will mute.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Which means I don't see those posts anymore and that makes life a lot easier.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: But also if you're being sucked into say somebody who's posting all the professional stuff um what I also want you to think about what's going on what haven't they posted?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: What is actually happening behind the scenes because you see it with influencers clean influencers in particular they've got their beautiful dining room table and then if you just turn the camera to the side a little bit you see the rest of the mess.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I post things like that nowadays or I have done um I posted a this is what it looks like and then actually I turned the camera around and I had balanced my tripod on top of my suitcase and clothing and books because that was the only way I could actually get the tripod in the right place.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's important to show that there is so much going on behind the scenes as well.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's two points there.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: One if it's not bringing you joy do a Marie Kondo on it please just stop following them.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: If it is not aligned with what you want same thing please stop following them.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are getting drawn into somebody's highlights reel think about what's going on behind the scenes as well I know we always say it but we could talk to Felicia all day.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah absolutely that couple of hours went so far.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes yes and as I say if you've just joined in for this show please go back to our previous show where we were talking about the archetypes that women maybe feel that they need to be one of or part of and and I think there's too much of expectation in there.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of what Felicia said has been about knowing ourselves and self-awareness.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think there is enough of that out there?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: No I agree no I don't sometimes you might look at something on social media or see somebody in real life and and you think I wonder if they know how I see that and how everyone else sees them yeah I don't know maybe that's very judgmental of me I don't know no I don't know I I don't know or may or maybe it is but but then again if it just keeps us in a healthier frame of mind.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and something I we didn't go into on the show but I did mention that I probably should pull it out now is the comment that I made about CEOs crying on LinkedIn.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by that is not genuinely up they'll they'll be doing they'll do their their tears and they'll be going oh I'm doing this because I just had to fire someone today and it was just so awful because they've got their family to and it's all about me me just me and and how that affects me and get over yourself.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have seen posts like that.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they sit in their car like as though they've just come out of work and then before they can go home yeah I have seen those very odd very odd that is what is coming across as odd I don't even know what the purpose is of that I think it's I think it's because they want to be seen as human human but but it's kind of gone too far the other way in my opinion the worst thing I've seen and this really is horrific is somebody was talking about their son I think it was or their friend's son who was depressed it was an awful story it ends with the son taking their life but they use that to sell their business oh my goodness they used it to sell their business and I just find that absolutely despicable yes but also why would people buy into that and then literally buy in why but it had so many likes on that post and that scares me.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you definitely see the dark side of humanity on social media that is for sure.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I think the thing I take away from this is and I do understand Felicia saying social media is good to some degree if you're building your brand and you have to be out there but I think do as Felicia does don't spend too long on there.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it is really good advice I mean tempos a day you would start mentally switching off wouldn't you you'd start going oh not them again yeah I think exactly and and that's counterproductive as well so maybe it's thinking about who your audience is who you really want to attract and then do what suits them.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yes and on that note have a healthy weekend