Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Headless, Handless Body Found In Suitcases in 1998 Finally Identified! Son Charged!

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Headless, Handless Body Found In Suitcases in 1998 Finally Identified! Son Charged! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Quality balance with Joseph's gotten more. I was having a
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: discussion with my wife not too long ago regarding our
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: retirement and thinking about, you know what moneies there are,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: you know, how how do you access it? How do
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: you know how much you have? It's one thing relative
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to like personal investments and all that. That's not what
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about self security, right because
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: it's something I've I've never really thought about, you know,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: at all. And I know I've got a lot of
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: great friends that are drawing their sell security right now
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: that listen to us faithfully. And first off, if you've
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: made to retirement, God bless you. I'm happy for you.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great thing. I long for that someday.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: But you know, they put you on that graph, right
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: you go into the guts of the program and'll show
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: you how much you have earned to this point. It's
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: a bit disheartening, I think, because when you look at it,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: you can go back and see when you started working, right,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And I thought, oh my lord, man, I've been at
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: this for a long long time. And it's a grind,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: isn't it. Every single day you've got to get up.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: You're going to go in and I'm like you, guys,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I've had jobs that I've hated, I've had jobs that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I have met, and then there are other jobs I'm
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: just like super excited to go into. But can you
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: imagine can you imagine working your entire life and finally
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: you get to the point where you've still got viable
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: health and you get an opportunity maybe to enjoy a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: few of those fruits, just maybe. As a matter of fact,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you get into your nineties, which is a great accomplishment,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: but you die not unexpected. But then what happens to
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you afterwards, Well, I'll give you a hint. That's of
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: security that you work for for all those years continued
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: to be collected in your absence, And no it wasn't
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: by your spouse. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: body backs, brother Dave. I've gotten now where when I
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: meet people, you know, I go to these social functions
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: at the university, and because I you know, I represent
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Jack State on all these platforms, they're mentioned very frequently,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: certainly on all the television stuff that I do. So
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I go out and I meet a lot of alumni.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I love hanging out with our alumni. I met alumni
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: that graduated from jack State. The oldest one I met
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: with somebody that graduated in nineteen forty eight. And we're
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: not a huge school. We're just a tiny regional university.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: But you know, I talk to them about how they've
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: been retired. They're living on a lake somewhere, you know,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: they've got their boat, or they're just taking it easier
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: around the house. And yeah, you know, it comes with,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: you know, physical problems and ailments as everybody gets them
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: you get older. But many times I find myself saying, Wow,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I wonder, I wonder what that's like. I wonder what
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that's like not to have to go and work for
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the man, you know, or do one of these things.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And this case came across our desk and I thought
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: about this, this gentleman and our principle here in this case,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and wow, what a what a way to end. Huh.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Well, here's your bottom line, Joe, I sent the note
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: to you on this story. It's about father and son
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Lawrence drop left. Lawrence is ninety three years old. His son,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: who is fifty three, is living with him at the
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: time and working.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: At ninety three years old, the senior, mister Drow. He's
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: not working, you know, he's he is full on retired
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: at ninety three. And by the way, Joe, you mentioned
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: social security. He's drawing social Security and he's drawing a
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: pension from where he had worked. So in his retirement years,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: you know, he's got two different checks coming in every month.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: He has his adult son living with him, hopefully sharing
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: the bills.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: So the problem is this is that drop left? Is
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: that how we're going to pronounce his name?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: H yeah? Okay, yeah, sure.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: I was hoping because that's what it looked like to me.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I disrespect. I mean, that's you know, to the draw
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: of family. But this is what we got.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, so we'll go with that.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you go.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: The problem here is that I want to get this right,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: but there are three different things. So let me just
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: give you the opening line here, Joe, you're ready. Version
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: number one. February nineteen ninety eight. The remains of a
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: man were found in Ohio. Hikers located a suitcase and
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: bag near Interstate seventy seven in Dover Township, inside the
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: where the dismembered remains of an elderly man. Man's height
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: and weight estimated to be five eight to five ten
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: and one hundred and sixty pounds, give or take. The
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: investigators believed that only a few days had elapsed since
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the man's death. That's version one. Okay, just found by hikers.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Version two. February nineteen ninety eight, children playing in the
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: woods in Dover Township discovered a suitcase containing the membered
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: remains of a man. Days later, days later, an additional
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Okay remains were found in a second suitcase. Authorities determined
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: the remains belong to one person, but they're unable to
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: identify the elderly victim due to the absence of the
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: head and hands. That's version two. Version three is this
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: and I know this seems weird that you could have.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: These are big.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Differences in how the remains were found, Joe, big differences.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: The case began in February ninety eight when authorities receive
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: a complaint. Now receive a complaint regarding a suitcase found
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: by a group of children on Winkler Hill Road in
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Dover Township containing unidentified male body parts, including a pelvis
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: and part of one leg. One week later, a second
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: suitcase containing a torso was found along a bolt's Orchard
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Road in Jefferson Township. Despite the recovery of a body,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: authorities unable to determine the identity of the victim or
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: a potential suspect, Joe. We start with hikers finding two bags,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: then we have children playing find a suitcase, and then
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: days later another bag, and then we have again found
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: in a week later found more but this time no head,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: no hands. So three different versions of the same thing.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Hang on one second, Brother Dave. I've got to make
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: a comment here because we do realize that there are
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: a finite number of human remains, and so I began
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: to think about this, you know, the distribution of these remains,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and is there any chance that the stories got all
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: jumbled up, you know, like a nest of fishing line,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and you can't see where one ends and one begins,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: or these are these separate, distinct events. You know, We've
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: got hikers and little kids. Little kids seem to be
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the common thread here. And can little kids be hikers? Yes,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I suppose they can. But when I think about hikers,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I lived, I lived really over in Georgia. I live
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: within five miles of the Appalachian Trail. Have a I
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: have a kind of a vision in my mind of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: what hikers look like. And they don't look like little kids.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So in this area, this area is kind of in
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: eastern Ohio, and at least by my view of it
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: is kind of a rural area. You know, it's not
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: teeming with folks. So yeah, I mean, I guess people
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: could be hiking in that area. But wow, to recover
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: three and you've got those are those are as you
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and I have discussed on body bags. Those are three
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: individual scenes. Yeah, you know, if you think about the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: dispersement of the remainders.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, multiple.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Going back to the finder, this is something that I
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: have learned in working with Joe over the last several years,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: looking at the finder, because it means something, all right
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: in this case, when I started looking for the finder
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: and found the different versions of what took place, and
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: by the way, each one of the stories that I
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: told you, each version was printed in a legitimate news
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: report from television, print, what have you, and it's all
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety eight. Granted that is twenty eight years ago.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: But the case went cold, Joe because they had the
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: body parts in two different containers.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: But the only thing they really knew elderly.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Man five eight to five ten, one hundred and sixty pounds.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: And because that was all they really had at the time,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the case went cold and it remained could Now the
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: reason we're talking about it today is because of our
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: friends at Authraam and the work that Authoram is doing
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: just remarkable. Yeah, and something that they could not identify
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: who this guy, who this person was, And we're talking
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: days you know, the it was mentioned that when the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: body parts are found, Joe the based on what was observed,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: they were fairly fresh remains. Death had only occurred recently.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and most of the time day in these
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: dismemberment cases, you know, we we talked about the the
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know not the we talked about how it's
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a common occurrence. It seems as though kidding more, Yeah,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: my lord, I don't want uh, you know, podcast has
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to expert on dismemberments on my gravestone, all right, but
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: it seems like it's headed that way. But there's so
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: many of them now. But yeah, when you look at
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: this and you look at these cases, you know, most
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of the time with what really caught my eye about
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: this case is that from a forensic standpoint. When you're
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: discussing dismemberment, most of the time the remains are really degraded.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: But you know, in every statement that has come up
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: about this case, they're saying that these are in fact
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: fresh remains. So again I go back to whoever did this,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: their ability to kind of assess the world around them
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: and having some kind of awareness. This sounds like somebody
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: got really lucky because the thing went cold. But why
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: do you go to all of the trouble, Why do
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: you go to all of the trouble to take a saw,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: cut up a body and place it in individual elements
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and then distribute them. But yet they're found. That seems
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: to run contrary to all of that work, unless unless
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: possibly there's some other kind of attachment. I go out
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: to my garage, I go into my closet. I'm looking
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: at everything I have. I've got black plastic bags, I've
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: got a couple of old suitcases. What shall I use?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: It's gruesome enough when you're talking about dismemberment to think about,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: you know, having to do that, all right, But then
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: how do you make a decision on the conveyance? You know, like,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: are the what's it called receptacle. How do you make
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: a decision about the receptacle. You know there's a there's
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: a big difference between a plastic garbage bag and a suitcase, right,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I mean to me, there is. I know that sounds
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: rather obvious, and you know I'm not being tongue in
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: cheek here. I'm just saying, if you're looking at this
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: from an assessment standpoint, from an investigative standpoint, what compels
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you to go with those Why do you run out
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of suitcases? Are we shining on plastic bags? Or did
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you say, yeah, I still got a couple of good suitcases.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I want to travel. I'm going to use these old
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: ones and then I'm going to fill in the blanks
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: with the black plastic garbage bags. It's an interesting it's
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: an interesting conundrument. It's something I've never really thought of
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: in all of these cases that we've covered. A dismemberment
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: kind of odd.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you about the actual finding, Okay, Joe,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: what happens when a call comes in to headquarters to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: police that we have a suitcase that has body parts
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: in it. And I'm going to guess that the person
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: gets the nine to one one operator or the police
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: whoever got the call said stop touching it, leave it
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: where it is, do not move, I mean just stop.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: And so with that call, I would imagine the first
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: thing is send a patrol car out verify that's what
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: we have. Yeah, and once it's verified, what goes next?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: When do you come out there as the death investigator?
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: When you actually come out.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah immediately. And in Ohio, which, by the way,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: if I've got any Ohio natives out there, you guys
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: have a fine corner system there. As corner system goes,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the corner systems, Corner Systems Go Ohio has one of
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: the best in the country. I've trained many of them
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: over the years. I don't do it currently, but years
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: ago I did, and just a great group of folks.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: They would have The Sheriff's office would have alerted the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: corner almost immediately because here's the thing. They're going to
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: get their CID out there, because this is obviously something
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: that is that implies a homicide. You got this memberment,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: My first stopping off point in my mind as a
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: cop is going to be homicide. But also there's no
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: rescue here. There's no attempt to save a lie for
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: anything like that. You've got to call the corner. I
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: think somebody that just graduated from the police academy last
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: week and they throw them on the road. They're like, yeah,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: we got to call the corner, so they would be
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: out there pretty quickly. Here's logistically, here's the weird thing
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: for me, because you know, we've got these these scenarios,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: which you did a fantastic job of breaking this down,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: because you see how kind of complex this sort of
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: thing is. Do you come across one set of remains
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and then you go out and you search that area.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that the local police and share they've
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: got a lot of resources because of kind of the
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: isolated nature of it. But you go out there and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: you look in eccentrically, so you start where the suitcase is,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: and if you imagine like a big uh, like a
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: big swirl, you know, kind of extending out eccentrically from
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the center. You go out and you look and there's
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: just at some point in tom you're you know, you're
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you're thinking, Okay, there's nothing else out here. I've got
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: this one bag or I've got this one suitcase. There's
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: kind of a funny little aside that I see in
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: social media every night, and then particularly in the true
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: crime community, where they'll say there'll be a picture of
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: a black plastic bag on the side of the road,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: you know, like some work team has come by and
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: cleaned up trash, and the meme reads like, my true
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: crime superpowers have been activated. I wonder what's in that bag,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you know, because you're looking at it and you're thinking,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: is there anything else? So if you leave from that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: initial scene and you've got that one set of whatever
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it might be, well, if you're on patrol, I would
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: have to imagine that, you know, your head is always
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: on the swivel. You're trying to decide, you know what,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: where's the rest of him? Because I can tell you, Dave,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: once they got into the morgue, they would realize that
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: now they're shy a few parts, if you know what
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Well, and that was actually something they had to do
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: with problems in identification. Apparently, even though it was ninety eight,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: and even though we were a couple of years removed
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: from the OJ Simpson trial that was all about DNA,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: you know, there still were problems identifying the body and
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the head and the hands were missing. I've tried to
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: determine did they ever find them? And they didn't. But Joe,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: when you're looking at the remains, you've got them in
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: the suitcase and possibly a back. After you have done
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: the search around the body, around the remains, and you've
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: determined we got nothing else out here, do you then
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: how are the remains transported? I mean in a suitcase
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: they're going to be slashing around or whatever else you've
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: has already been opened. I mean, there's gonna be inzact activity.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: There's going to be a lot going on with this.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: How are they going to transport the suitcase and the
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: back from where it's found to the lab?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Simply put, you're going to put it in a body bag? Okay,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you're going to put it in a body bag. And
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: it's an excellent question because I can see why you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: how people will? You know? It looks the facility of it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: You think I can facilitate this by merely grabbing the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: hand handle on the on the suitcase and continue to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: use it as conveyance. Here's the problem. That suitcase is
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: now part of criminal investigation, so it's no longer a
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: receptacle for human remains. I'd like to go back just
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: for a second and think about something we talked about
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: last week with Celes Revus, and that is I think
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this. It's the only time in my experience
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: as a death investigator or as commentator where a body
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: bag has now become a piece of evidence and they're
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: actually swabbing, you know they talked about in Reeves's autopsy report.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: They're swabbing each one of the six NHLON handles, woven
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: nil one handles on that. Now, yeah, you might think,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and you'd be dead on accurate that the the handle
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: that in ninety eight we could not necessarily get touched DNA.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: But even just touching that bag by the handle, well,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that's a specific point of contact with a perpetrator who
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: is going to grab it, so you can't. You might
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: you might look at it and think that it has
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: the utility. It's kind of like saying, yeah, I found
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a I found a body in the trunk of a car.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: The keys are in ignition. We found it as investigators.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I think I'll just hopping the car. It's got gas
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: in motor operates, and I'm going to drive it to
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the police, you know, to the police garage and well
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: they no, no, no, Now you keep that in a
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: static position the best you can, and you load it
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: up and you convey it there because that car, that
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: car that I'm using in that example, it's just like
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the suitcase or those bags. Those bags are smooth, non
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: porous plastic surfaces. We con fume those bags. Look for
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: fingerprints on the outside the bags. But here's the problem.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: If you ain't got fingerprints in aphis, then you know,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: my will say it ain't worth gunpowder to blow a hell,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: because yeah, you might hope that sooner or later somebody
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: will be printed that comes back in the system, the
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: automatic automated fingerprint system that we have and we've had
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: it for years and years. But if you're not in system,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: any unknown fingerprints that you collect at that moment, Tom,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: it's not going to help you, but you have to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: treat it as though it can help you in the future.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like the remains. Those people back in
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: ninety eight had no idea you know what science, what
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: science would would hold for us and try to understand,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of the journey that the person and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the body has been on. And that's a major thing
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to try and unlock. But I can tell you who
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: actually has the keys. It's our friend David Middleman in
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the Woodlands, Texas. It's well known my version to jigsaw puzzles.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I was never good at it. I never had the
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: patience for it. But you know, in life, sometimes you're
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: forced to do things like that that you might not
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: want to do, but you got to do them, you know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: just like you're going to put a jigsaw puzzle together
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: with your family on Saturday afternoon it's ran outside. You know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Dad's going to bite the bullet and you're going to
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: sit down and do it, even though it felt like
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: throwing the pieces across the room because it's just too overwhelming.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: In my work life though kind of pride. I took
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of pride in trying to piece things together,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: not just intellectually but also from an evid entry standpoint. Dave,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you know what one of the problems is when you
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: get a dismembered body, and they were very specific. I'm
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: going to ask you to call up the numbers that
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: you stated earlier. Did they or did they not give
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: us a specific height? Or it was the range was
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: very tight. It looked like to me.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: What was that five eight to five ten and one
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty pounds.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Do you ever take.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you figure. We know from the movie Jerry Maguire,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the Little Boy says, you know, the average human head
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: weighs about ten pounds. Did you know that that's actually accurate?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: That little statement? You know that that Little Boy. I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: love that movie by the way, that that statement that
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: that kid made in that movie is pretty accurate. Of course,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: it's going to vary from person to person. But I'm
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: thinking about stature from an anthropology standpoint. You said, well, Morgan,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: these are fresh remains. Would you why would you even
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: bring up anthropology? Well, here's the reason. Anthropologists set the
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: gold standard when it comes to measurement of the human form,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and they have very specific calculus that they use in
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: order to come up with the link. You have to
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: have the big thing that you use in anthropology, at
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: least to my way. And granted I am not a
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: graduate level anthropology. I'm a forensic scientist, but you know
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I play one on TV. Love I love forensic anthropology.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I always have one of the key elements to anthropology
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: assessment day are actually the femur, the long bones in
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the body and so. But in this case we're missing
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the head, all right, So how big was his head?
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I like to think I've got a head that is
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a lot larger than most if you look at it.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I can't get a good hat size from my head.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Everything I have to expand it completely out. My wife says,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was full of brains. I think it's because my brain.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: My head's full of bs most of the time. But
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: my head is dimensionally is essentially if you want to
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: think about it from you know, the chin to the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: crown is probably longer than most. So if you're trying
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to nail down a height, because you know, stature is
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: essential to trying to go about and talk about it.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: We've got an elderly guy. We think that he's five
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: eight to five ten, and he might weigh one hundred
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and sixty pounds. One hundred and sixty pounds is very specific.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: That also gives me a lot of information about status
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: of the body because you know, just going back to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: again Celesereevus and she's contained right, just like this case,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: they came up the number for her weight, if I'm
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: not mistaken, was like in the sixties, I think is
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: where it was. But her body was so degraded and
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: it had become you know, let's face it, it had liquefied.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: You don't have that here. So you're able to get
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: an idea of overall weight, but you're going to have
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to calculate, well, how much would a body weigh without hands?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: How much would it weigh without head? Do you know
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: how we weigh bodies in the morgue?
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Dave no idea.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I told you this. There used to be I'm thinking back.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: It used to be this contraption that you could wheel
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: in beside the body, and you would have to factor
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: in the weight of a stainless steel trade with a body.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It's a winch system and you hook straps underneath and
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: you wind it up click click click click like that,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: and you press the button and it gives you the
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: weight of that thing that's being held. You subtract for
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the weight of a stainless steel trade and that gives
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you the body weight. And they still have the same
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: thing now where you push the body with a gurny
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: now and a tray perhaps onto a weighted systems like
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: weigh in a truck. You know, you push it up
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: on this platform. There's an indwelling indwelling scale in there,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: and that's how we weigh the body and you can
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: get accurate you can get accurate weights of the physical
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: remains that you have. Just follow me here. However, you
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: can take that number all you want, but you have
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: to factor in all of sames, Dave that you're absent.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about hands, we're talking about a head,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and Lord only knows what else might be missing.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: All right, now, we got to get this buddy identified,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and you've got to find out how did he die? Right,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I mean there has to be he didn't just get
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: cut up and thrown in a suitcase.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: He died first.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: And how are you going to go about trying to
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: identify that? Because you mentioned Silas Rebas, we have had
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: that identification you know of how she possibly died. So
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: did they do the same thing with the ninety three
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: year old man?
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: You know what this is? I'm so glad you you
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: asked this about this case. With this this is physicians
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: love to you use the term a diagnosis of exclusion,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and I always use the example of and God bless
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: people that have this condition, but people that have Loopus
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: loupus presents in so many different ways right. You know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you have all these factors that surround it. It's a
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: miserable disease to have. And you know doctors have to
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: check off everything else in the world before they arrive
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: on loopus. Okay, Well, here's the problem with an elderly
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: gentleman that is missing his head and he's chopped bits.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: One of the big things that we look at here
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: is you know what happened to his head? Okay? Does
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: he have a gunshot one into the back of the head.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Do you sustain a blow to the back of the head. Now,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: you can't make that assessment. What you can do is
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: you come back if you have the heart. And that's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: probably my first stop on this little journey of the autopsy.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: You're going to see what his heart look like. Well,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: let me tell you what his heart's going to look like.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: He's in his nineties, okay. And many people there's a
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: term that I absolutely hate that doctors use both in
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: practice out in general practice when they have a patient die.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: And also the medical examiner corner community has been guilty
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: of this too. They will list the primary cause of
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: death as sequelli is the term, and it's very it's
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a bizarre term. So they'll say sequellly, and what they
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: mean by that is they're kind of throwing their arms
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: up in the air, their hands up in there and saying,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you know, God called is essentially what they're saying, and
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: that applies most of the time. With people that are aged.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You'll also get and I think that this is probably
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: a bit more intellectually honest, some physicians will say circumstances
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: associated with advanced age or I've actually seen them. In
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: the top line on death certificate, just put advanced age,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: because you don't you don't necessarily have a lot to
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: hang your hat on if you're looking for somebody, for instance,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that and what we'll see in the morgue with somebody
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: who's had a classic heart attack like an mi I
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: mile cardial infarction, you'll when you do that dissection on
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the heart, first off, you'll see, well, how blocked are
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: their associated cardiac vessels or coronary vessels, And then is
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: there any evidence of previous m I or heart attacks?
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And then do you have any evidence of something that's fresh?
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: And sometimes those little evidences of fresh heart event, you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: are striking. You know, you can back it up because
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: what this means is that when the corner artists get
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: blocked that heart muscle, the myocardium, which the heart is
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: one gigantic muscle. If oxygenated blood is shut off from
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that area, then the muscle dies in that area that
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: are affective. Wherever that blockage is, it dies. And so
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: you know, they'll talk about lots of times that you know,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the heart, you're you know, you've only got eighty five percent,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: you're functioning eighty five percent. Well, what that means is
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: that you've got eighty five percent of your heart that's
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: still doing the work that it would have done when
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: you were diseased free one hundred percent, and so it's
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: having to make up and that can lead eventually to
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: you know, cardiac failure. So when you're making a diagnosis
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: like this, and this is kind of a complex thing
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to do. This is not this is not like you
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: don't want to give this case to somebody that's fresh
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: out of training. Right this it's it's a bit new.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It requires a bit of ainess, you know, when you're
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: looking at everything, because you really have to do the
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: mental gymnastics. If just simply by missing the heads. Some
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: people will say, well, that makes it a lot easier.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Well maybe so, but are you are you satisfied as
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the person's going to sign the death certificate of signing
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: this just hope. Just pay attention to what I'm saying.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Are you comfortable enough with a dismembered body to say, yeah,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: this is natural and not homicide? Just think about that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: just for a second, because you know that's the roads
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: you're going to go down. And in this particular case,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: they're they're faced with this decision.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Day and that's it's an important one because if this
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: person died naturally, they wouldn't have hacked themselves up and
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: put themselves into a suitcase in a separate bag. So
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: one has to look at it as this person at
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the very least.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Was abused as a corpse. Okay, yes, yeah, Now.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: When I get down to this nitty gritty here, I
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: want to point something out, friends, and we've talked about
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: this on the show on multiple occasions at Bears repeating
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: now nineteen ninety eight, February ninety eight. They did run DNA,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: they did get DNA from the corpse. You know they
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: were able to create the profile. Problem is if that
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: DNA profile is not in a system anywhere you have
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: nothing to compare it to and so because of that
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: it the case went cold and is sat there for
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: years and years and years. But this is where and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: we started off at the very beginning part of this
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: as an authorom event because there are now ways of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: taking this DNA and finding relatives, building a family tree,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: and this genetic genealogy has been very effective in solving
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a number of very high profile crimes.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Used here.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: They were the investigation was able to identify the remains,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: and once identifying the remains, they know what Paul Harvey
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: used to call the rest of the story.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: The problem is you're left with believing his story.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily believe Justin Scott Morgan, but I'm not
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: the investigator or no, right, Look.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I share I share your concern over this because it's like,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: I would not want to be in this position, because
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm if I'm living up in this Dover
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Township area in Ohio. I got questions, Okay, I mean
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I got a lot of questions. So you're telling me
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that back in ninety eight that you guys recovered a
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: dismembered body in multiple in bags and suitcase and we're
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: still you know, missing elements of the body, and you're
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: going to this is not a homicide, you know, convince me, well,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: David turns out, as a result of DNA testing, all
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: roads lead back to family, right and through that testing,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: through that testing that was conducted by our good friends
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: down in the Woodlands, Texas. Of course we're talking about AUTHROM.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: They have a patented program that they use. It's called
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: a forensic grade genome sequencing and it's something that is
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: unique to David Middleman and Kristen down there in those parts.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: And of course, as you know, anybody that wants answers
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: are going to go there. You know, kind of the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: unveiling of these things that have been a mystery for
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: years and years and years. When you look at this,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: they were able to determine that this gentleman, this gentleman,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: he's got a living son. And you had mentioned him
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: off at the top of the show, Dave, we're talking
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: about a fellow who is now well up into his seventies.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Ive eighty one, he's he's eighty one. Yeah, okay, yeah,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: let me do the arithmetic. Yeah, he'd be eighty one
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: years of age. He's just shy, well, I'll say shy
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: shy by a decade. This family lives a long time.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Parents think about, uh, he's shy by decade of his
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: dad's age when his dad was essentially cut up. I
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: find that very interesting and gee whiz, I wonder if
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the cops had questions for him, Dave.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: You know Joe there, Because again you go back to
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: at the time this occurred, they could not identify the remains.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: With a without a family member coming forward and saying, hey,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: my ninety three year old dad is missing, help me
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: find him, with nobody saying that out loud, the case
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: went cold and remained cold, and the closest that investigators
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: came to finding out what happened was in twenty ten,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Joe in twenty ten, the UH. In twenty ten, it
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: was discovered that Larry draw Left was collecting his father's
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Social Security Larry's father would have been if he were
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: alive in twenty ten, well, golly, g whizbef he would
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: have been one hundred and five years old, one hundred
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: and six okay, he was born in nineteen oh four.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Social Security's going there's no man who's getting this check
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: because it's not one hundred and six year old man. Okay,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: So in twenty ten.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: This guy would have had This guy would have had
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: a full awareness of the end of World War One.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he would have seen that dough boys come home.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: From He might Joe in nineteen oh four he was born,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: which means wow. Not only he would have been at
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: the parades when Johnny came marching home, he would have
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: been waving the flag.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: You're right, he would have.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Been right like just shy. The cusp of eligibility, right,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: gives you an idea how old this guy is.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: He would have been too old to serve in World
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: War two?
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he would have been far too And Dave,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: haven't we heard about these cases in recent years? You
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: know where they've gone back and they've audited these things.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: There are people on the on the rolls out there
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: that are getting Social Security and the age that stated,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: you know these people are like one hundred and forty
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: years old or something like this. But they caught this one,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and please, you know, tell me what I'm like more
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: about this.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, bottom line being the bottom line.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: In twenty ten, they isolated the Social Security stuff and
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: they stopped payments on it. Now, I I don't know
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: the intricacies to this because I haven't dug into that
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: part of the investigation. It just we were focusing on
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: the identity of the human remains that were found and
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: the fact that his son collected his social Security and
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: by the way, Larry Droughtlift collected his father's pension too.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: The total amount of benefits this guy collected over about
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, nearly a quarter million
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: dollars in benefits he collected. But going back to nineteen
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: ninety eight, February nineteen ninety eight, remains found in a
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: suitcase in a bag, and once the body was truly
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: identified as being the victim here that we've been talking about,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: when it was Larry Droughtlift, his father was called Lawrence,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: not Larry. I apologize. When Laurence Strautluff was positively identified.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: They reopened this case in twenty twenty three, Joe and
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: started looking at things. In twenty twenty four, the investigation
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: came down where they had enough to send it to AUTHORM.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: And you know, we've talked about how it takes time.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: It's not like you just send what you have to
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: author them and they come out in Ding Ding Ding,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: here's your name. It takes so much time because you
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: send stuff to authorm, they break it down, they send
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: back the information to the law enforcement. Law enforcement has
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to go back out in the field in a lot
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: of cases doing more interviews, trying to find more people,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and it takes time to build out this tree in
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: this case took about two and a half years.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: But they finally did come down to.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, we know who the sun is. And
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: once they identified the sun, they identified the biological remains
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: of Lawrence A.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Droft Loff.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: His son, Larry Draftloff is called in Larry's now eighty one,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: by the way, and they sit him down and they say, Larry,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: these remains of your dad.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Tell it.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: You know, we already nailed you for collecting his stuff.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: So talk to us man, how did your dad end
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: up in that suitcase can? And that's when Larry Draftliff
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: actually admitted. But Joe, here here's his story. Larry Draftliff
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: claims that he's fifty three years old when he comes
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: home from work and he's living with his elderly father
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: who is ninety three, and he walks in the door
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: and Dad is Dad. Now you have to believe Larry
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: draftlift in this found my dad dead, and yeah, I
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: wanted to collect his benefits, so I hacked up his body.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I put his body in the suitcase. I put his
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: remains in the back. And by the way, I also
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: took some other parts of his remains that you can't find,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: and I threw those in a dumb I put them
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: in bags like trash and threw them in a dumpster
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: near where I work in nineteen ninety eight. So here
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: we are, it's twenty twenty six, and he's admitting twenty
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: eight years ago I disposed of my father's head and
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: hands in a dumpster.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Near where I work. You ain't find it.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Those no, no, no way.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: You're left with believing him that he came home and
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: found his ninety three year old dad dead. And Joe,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I've met some ninety three year old people, Yeah that
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: were You wonder how they're still alive, barely breathing. And
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I've met I learned how to shoot pool from a
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: man who was ninety three years old. John Jennings taught
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: me how to shoot He was he was ninety three
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: when I met him.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Anyway, and it's amazing. You never know, you know, the
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: level of smodies of vitality, and you know, the beauty
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: of it also is the history that they bring along
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: with them. Yes, I'm sure that in this dad's mind,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: you know, he he had no way of seeing, you know,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: what the future held. Obviously, I don't know how malevolent
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the sun was. You know, during this period of time,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: there's no excuse for the abuse of a corpse. And
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: then you go to a moral level of it, the
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: abuse of your father's course. I was talking with Kimmy
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: about this case yesterday and me and my wife had
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: the most lovely conversations. We were sitting there and you
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: were thinking, and this has happened before. How in the
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: world does someone take a saw to your parents' remains?
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And there, look, guys, there's many things
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: that I don't understand. I can't do the arithmetic on it.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: If he's used a handsaw, Joe, he used a handsaw on.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: This guy's body, and he had him in a place
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: that he could do this and never be detected. If
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you've got two guys that are living together, an elderly
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: father who's going to miss him, if by that age,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and there's a high probability a lot of his friends
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: have already passed on. You know, are there other family
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: members out there that want to know, you know, what
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: happened to our uncle? You know where is he? You know,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You just kind of wandered off. It
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: would require agoing, an ongoing effort I think on the
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: part of the Sun to keep up the secrecy. And
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: of course, after a while, guess what, people stop asking questions.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: The beauty of it is this now, with the technology
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: we have, questions that seemed unanswerable in the past are
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: now just to key struck away. That's why I urge
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: all of you all, just like in this case, to
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: go to dnasolves dot com. That's our friends at authorm.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Check out their website. Look through all of those cases.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: There might be something you want to throw a few
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: bucks to. They don't want thousands of dollars from you, guys.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Just a few bucks sent their way could flip the
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: switch on getting these gigantic mysteries brought to a resolution.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: That's dolls dot com. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: is body bags.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.