Latest / Rusty's Garage / Tony Cochrane (Part 3)

Transcript

Tony Cochrane (Part 3) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:19
  G'day, it's Rusty all set for the final part of my podcast with Tony Cochran.
• 0:24
  Coco has been kind enough to give me nearly two and a half hours of his time, and he's a busy man, but it's you, the fans, that win.
• 0:32
  If you've arrived here before checking out parts one and two, you really, as Molly Meldrum would say, should do yourself a favour and give them a listen first.
• 0:41
  Part one has more detail on the Supercross World Championship plan, so two-wheel fans will enjoy that, plus how Tony got into event and sport promotion and his first dealings with Barry Sheen.
• 0:53
  Part two tackles Gold Coast Indy, the behind-the-scenes moves to lure Coco to supercars and the battles he fought in those early years and more.
• 1:03
  We begin part three with a cracking tail on Baz.
• 1:07
  Sit back and imagine yourself flying to London with these two and the laughs which would have been non-stop the whole way.
• 1:16
  I remember once on a flight out of, because of his sponsorship stuff, he quite often would go overseas when I was overseas, and I would help him, and we'd work together a bit.
• 1:30
  I remember once we were on a flight.
• 1:31
  I can't remember why we were in Barcelona, but we were in Barcelona, and we flew back to Heathrow.
• 1:39
  on a British Airways flight.
• 1:41
  And we're in business class, and because they only have business and economy, it wasn't that big a plane.
• 1:50
  I don't know, 737 or something, I don't know.
• 1:55
  Anyway, so we...
• 1:59
  had this big lunch in the afternoon to finish up our last day in Barcelona.
• 2:07
  And we were both probably in good form.
• 2:11
  And in the car on the way out to the airport, he says to me, DC, how many good-looking British Airways hosties do you reckon will be on this flight this afternoon?
• 2:24
  LAUGHTER
• 2:25
  And I said, well, I haven't got a clue, Barry.
• 2:28
  They might not be hosties, by the way.
• 2:30
  They might be hosts.
• 2:31
  Yes.
• 2:32
  And we had a bit of – it started a bit of a – Oh, come on, TC.
• 2:36
  Come on, TC.
• 2:37
  Exactly.
• 2:38
  A whole sort of ganty because, as you know, he doesn't let up.
• 2:41
  When he gets a thought process going, he doesn't let up.
• 2:43
  He's on it.
• 2:45
  So this guy's all the way through check-in.
• 2:47
  He's asking the woman to check-in.
• 2:50
  How many hostings are going to be on this flight?
• 2:53
  He's looking at him like, are you kidding?
• 2:57
  So this all goes on.
• 2:58
  It goes on through the club.
• 2:59
  We go up to the club.
• 3:00
  This goes on in the club.
• 3:02
  Anyway, so we're walking down the – just about to walk down the gangway to get on the plane.
• 3:09
  And he says to me, I want to have a bed.
• 3:13
  He says, I bet you that I can talk every hostie in the business class section into coming out to dinner with us tonight in London.
• 3:29
  And I said, that's ridiculous.
• 3:31
  You don't even know whether they're flying on somewhere else.
• 3:33
  You know, it might be one.
• 3:36
  Whatever is one.
• 3:37
  She's not going to come to dinner with you and me.
• 3:39
  She'd be terrified.
• 3:40
  Look at you.
• 3:41
  You're half stunned.
• 3:42
  I'm half stunned.
• 3:43
  Anyway, so we – I agree, of course, like an idiot.
• 3:49
  And we get on board and there's three, as fate would have it, there's three hosties looking after the business class cabin.
• 3:57
  So Barry gets to work.
• 3:59
  Game on.
• 4:00
  Game is the flags dropped and we're away.
• 4:07
  So he's working his magic for all he's worth, you know, and charming because he was the most charming.
• 4:15
  So engaging.
• 4:16
  Yeah.
• 4:17
  And he's...
• 4:19
  you know, really going for it.
• 4:21
  And, of course, he lived with his man-made in London, you know.
• 4:24
  Sleep parish.
• 4:25
  Yeah, yeah.
• 4:27
  So he, before we actually fly, he gets a message to him that, you know.
• 4:31
  Stab Ross.
• 4:32
  Yeah, we're going to be at dinner.
• 4:33
  There's going to be a dinner tonight.
• 4:35
  We're late.
• 4:36
  We don't land until 7.30.
• 4:37
  It's going to be a late dinner.
• 4:38
  Can you book such and such?
• 4:39
  It was an Italian joint.
• 4:40
  I can't even remember the name of it now.
• 4:42
  I know where it is in London, but...
• 4:44
  So, look, to cut a long story short, because it is a very long story, that night we went to dinner with five Airways air hostesses because he managed to ring in a couple from Economy as well, just for good measure, and yours truly lost the bet and picked up the entire tab.
• 5:04
  Oh, I love it.
• 5:05
  And can I say Barry's hospitality was outstanding that night.
• 5:08
  He made sure everybody drank the bar dry.
• 5:12
  Every decent bottle of wine that they possessed was served with or without ice blocks and champagne and spirits and...
• 5:22
  Fantastic.
• 5:22
  God knows what else.
• 5:23
  I think, you know, and bear in mind I'm talking a long time ago.
• 5:26
  I'm talking 25 years ago or something.
• 5:28
  I think I ended up with a 2,000-pound dinner bill.
• 5:32
  Um, so that was a valuable lesson for young TC not to agree to a stupid Barry Sheen bet ever again But we had a we had a hilarious night It was a lot of fun actually and as only Barry could do he kept the whole mob entertained and Um, but you know just just the most ridiculous proposition.
• 5:50
  Yeah, you know We can take every hostie on this plane out to dinner tonight It's just an absurd proposition and you know you try and do it in this day of PC and you'd probably be arrested or something exactly
• 6:00
  But, you know, he was an engaging character of the First Order and everybody loved him.
• 6:08
  His sponsors loved him.
• 6:10
  All the manufacturers loved him.
• 6:12
  You know, all the young writers.
• 6:15
  you know, and clearly when he moved into the sport of V8 supercar, he was dearly and much greatly loved there.
• 6:24
  And it's only fair and fitting.
• 6:27
  And I fought like shit for it at the time.
• 6:31
  I think it's absolutely appropriate that the Barashine medal is a part and parcel forever of that championship.
• 6:38
  Agreed.
• 6:38
  Just before we move on, he did little things.
• 6:40
  He had a beautiful side to him as well, in addition to the character that we knew.
• 6:45
  I can recall him ringing me at one stage going, oh, can you give me Garth Tander's number?
• 6:50
  I said, sure, sure, Baz.
• 6:51
  What do you want that for?
• 6:52
  From memory, he had...
• 6:54
  an introduction to a telco, might not have been a mainstream telco like an Optus or a Telstra, but someone, a telecommunications company.
• 7:02
  And he was keen to connect them.
• 7:03
  He thought it might be a good fit for Garth in a sponsorship sense.
• 7:06
  He just quietly did that.
• 7:07
  No one knew that.
• 7:08
  He did a similar thing, I think, with Lee Diffie when he went to England to work on the World Superbikes.
• 7:14
  He quietly toiled away there, didn't he?
• 7:16
  He had that side to him.
• 7:17
  Yeah.
• 7:18
  Yeah, I think Diff had put his hand in the air and admit that Barry certainly didn't cement his career or anything like that, but Barry certainly gave him a leg up.
• 7:26
  Very good recommendation, yeah.
• 7:28
  Tell me about dealing with government and, you know, as the growth of supercars happens here, the advent of the Adelaide 500, which was an amazing thing, I can vividly recall being there for the first one.
• 7:42
  doing those things to help build the sport.
• 7:44
  Was that just you and your natural environment?
• 7:46
  You knew how to deal with those guys and you could see potential to do some of those things?
• 7:51
  Yeah, I guess I've also seen opportunity, you know, see an opportunity jump into it.
• 8:00
  There's a fast and the dead.
• 8:03
  There's not much difference between the two.
• 8:05
  Was there ever a deal that didn't come to fruition in supercars?
• 8:09
  What about the one that got away that you really would have loved to have seen happen?
• 8:13
  Oh, well, you know, got away, I mean...
• 8:19
  You know, Canberra was probably a deal that I screwed up in the sense that I was so keen to do the deal because, you know, racing around the national capital just sounded fantastic and it put us in front of governments and made us... Like roaring around Washington, basically, wouldn't it, in your eyes?
• 8:34
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:36
  And but the part that I overlooked in the whole process, they were very keen for us to go on that June long weekend.
• 8:43
  June was the weather.
• 8:45
  And the weather, yeah, I had no idea.
• 8:46
  Campbell was, and that mugged me.
• 8:48
  I should have done a lot more homework, but others should have done a lot more homework too.
• 8:53
  But so we agreed to be there in June, of course, you know, it was freezing.
• 8:57
  I mean, I remember the first year we had all the seats, no one could sit in the grandstand seats because they were covered in ice.
• 9:04
  So, yeah, Canberra was a bit of a real cock-up in that sense.
• 9:08
  I still say to this day, if we had have done that back at the height of our power then, if we had have done that race in, say, mid-September, it would have been killer.
• 9:16
  It would have been terrific.
• 9:20
  But, yeah, look, you know, I mean, and deals that I did that got undone the moment I left town were really disappointing.
• 9:28
  I mean, we had a cracking deal because I did it.
• 9:31
  I know exactly the finances of it.
• 9:33
  At the Circuit of the Americas, the race in America.
• 9:38
  Middle East, you know.
• 9:39
  I mean, you know, we just had some...
• 9:44
  had some enormous courage in what we took on.
• 9:48
  And can I also say enormous success?
• 9:50
  I mean, yeah, so people say, oh, look, the grandstands aren't full, it's a failure.
• 9:54
  But, you know, we built, firstly, huge rights fees on the back of that for the sport.
• 10:01
  And secondly, my God, did we build a massive TV portfolio globally.
• 10:06
  I mean, you know, one of the things I'm proudest of, I think in the second to last year I left there, our total TV income, excluding Australia, was like $4 million US dollars.
• 10:18
  And because it was we had all these great deals going everywhere and yeah hundred thousand here and four hundred thousand there and 60 grand here 90 grand there you you know, you added it up and it was a big number um, but what it was doing was slowly Getting us a global following of our sport which you know could have been springboarded Into something much bigger, which is why you know I only recently made the statement and yes some people get upset because I make statements will you know
• 10:46
  Grow up learn to live with it, but I truly meant it and that was that 10 years on the sport should be twice the size it is I I thought that You know After 17 years i'd taken as far as it I could go.
• 11:02
  I had some real issues dealing with archer.
• 11:04
  That's no secret And yeah, I was either going to kill them or they were going to kill me So and I got got out of dodge, but um
• 11:13
  The truth of the matter is the sport should be really, it should be a really big sport today, big mainstream sport today.
• 11:19
  And unfortunately, it's, I don't think my harshest critic would say, oh, it's bigger today than when you had it, pal.
• 11:26
  That leaves me, a lot of people have messaged asking, would you go back?
• 11:31
  Would you go back and help them?
• 11:33
  And I find this difficult to ask because, A, that's kind of your IP.
• 11:37
  You have also moved on in life to other things that keep you incredibly busy.
• 11:42
  To the question, would you do that?
• 11:45
  And rather than asking what you would change, because I don't think that's the right thing to ask, have you observed from afar, from the sidelines, about what's gone wrong in your opinion?
• 11:54
  What's wrong?
• 11:56
  Oh, look, no, I don't think I'd ever go back because, you know, to quote a very famous Dick Johnson expression, the only thing in life you get from looking back is a sore neck.
• 12:10
  I've been out of it a long time now, Rusty.
• 12:12
  It's over 10 years.
• 12:15
  And every so often people have said or done something that's pissed me off with it.
• 12:21
  And perhaps I've snapped back and I've made a comment and that's created some sort of minor World War III.
• 12:28
  But the truth of the matter is that...
• 12:35
  I'll just generalise.
• 12:36
  I won't say which group's gone wrong.
• 12:38
  So I'm not talking about the current group.
• 12:39
  I'm not talking about the previous group.
• 12:41
  I just generalise.
• 12:43
  In the 11 years since they saw the back end of me, they've done so many fundamental things wrong.
• 12:55
  And that's kind of really annoying because, you know, you should never lose track of your fundamentals in something like that.
• 13:02
  So I speak of things like...
• 13:06
  the promotion of events isn't anything like what it used to be.
• 13:10
  You know, you've got to spend money to make money.
• 13:13
  I'm sorry.
• 13:13
  Tell people that it's on, when it's on, make noise around it.
• 13:16
  Yeah, you've got to make noise around it.
• 13:20
  I think that's all, personally, I think that's all trickled to almost a grinding halt.
• 13:27
  I think doing dumbass things like dropping the name V8 in front of supercars.
• 13:32
  When you do things like that and you get rid of grid girls and all those various other things that they've done, I'll tell you what you're doing.
• 13:40
  I'll tell you exactly what you're doing.
• 13:43
  You are taking away ownership of the sport from the fan base because truthfully when you run a sport like that, you're conducting it.
• 13:57
  but you actually don't own it.
• 13:59
  Yes, you might own it as in a piece of paper, but the fans own it.
• 14:04
  And the moment you lose sight of the fact that the fans don't have that ownership and that you're not trying to embrace their ownership and their love of it, you're in deep strife.
• 14:15
  You're in deep strife.
• 14:16
  And, you know...
• 14:20
  The fan base, in my humble opinion, of observation now over 10 or so years has been slowly but surely disengaged.
• 14:29
  So they're taking away things that those fans want.
• 14:31
  Now, you know, it's wonderful to say if we drop the name V8 Supercar, drop the name, sorry, V8 in front of Supercar, then it's important because nobody really drives a V8 anymore and, you know, fuel and all of that.
• 14:45
  Mind you, we're still going to run around with V8 engines, but...
• 14:48
  you know we we can we can perhaps fool some of the marketplace by just getting rid of this terminology v8 here's the truth the average fan who used to go to v8 supercars
• 15:02
  loved the name because it was aspirational to them.
• 15:05
  Now that doesn't mean if you went out to the car park at Bathurst or the car park- They might've driven a Hyundai there, but didn't mean they didn't love a V8.
• 15:11
  Correct, correct.
• 15:13
  So the V8 supercar was absolutely aspirational in their thinking.
• 15:17
  They thought it was the titan of racing.
• 15:20
  They thought it was hard and fast, had lots of attitude.
• 15:24
  It was a show, right?
• 15:26
  So you take that name away without
• 15:30
  bringing them on that journey and they go, why?
• 15:34
  What have you achieved?
• 15:36
  I don't understand what you've achieved here.
• 15:39
  So when you do that to a number of things, you do that with grid girls, you know, and again, grid girls, you've got to be careful in this day and age.
• 15:47
  Yes, we've all decided that, you know, we've got to become woke and yes, we've all decided that PC is important.
• 15:52
  And to some degree it is.
• 15:55
  But I never once saw grid girls causing any harm whatsoever.
• 15:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:00
  You know, those girls were very well paid.
• 16:03
  For some of them, it was an important income if they were studying at university or something.
• 16:07
  Absolutely.
• 16:08
  And you know what?
• 16:09
  They all applied.
• 16:11
  No one was forced to become a grid girl.
• 16:14
  They all applied.
• 16:15
  Most of them went through tryouts and stuff to get selected.
• 16:18
  um they love the work they love the fact that they you know got up close and were part of the show you ran you ran miss v8 supercar which was a thing that could potentially lead to other things it got them on stage it got them as i would call it on stage and a lot of people yeah like to be on stage so don't let the mob tell you you can't be on stage because we don't think this is pc anymore
• 16:41
  You know, if the people that want to be on the stage want to be on the stage, let them be on the stage.
• 16:47
  So they're all just – and some people listening to your program will go, yeah, it's no big deal.
• 16:54
  But you see all those little things add up.
• 16:56
  They add up and fans believe they become disengaged.
• 17:00
  You know, we were talking before about Sheeney.
• 17:02
  You know, I mean, one of my great lessons I learned from Barry Sheene was, you know, I'd be with him and we'd be freezing cold.
• 17:09
  We'd be at a place like Phillip Island standing in the paddock
• 17:11
  I'd do it at fire, Ian.
• 17:13
  And he'd be signing autographs.
• 17:14
  Mm.
• 17:15
  And, yeah, but, come on, Baz, we've got, you know, better head out of here soon.
• 17:19
  You know, dinner's half an hour.
• 17:20
  It was the Brock effect.
• 17:21
  He never left anyone without the...
• 17:23
  Correct.
• 17:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:24
  If Barry Sheen had to stand in that paddock till nine o'clock at night to sign every damn autograph that somebody wanted signed, he would.
• 17:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:32
  He would.
• 17:33
  Because things like that mattered to him.
• 17:36
  And he said, you know, Coco, I'd be far more concerned if they didn't want my autograph.
• 17:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:41
  So all of those little things, and I used to make a point, and many of your fans listening to this would say, it's absolutely true, I spoke to him, or I met him out there, I did that with him.
• 17:53
  I would make a point at most events, particularly on the Saturday afternoon, and late in the afternoon, of going and just standing in the paddock area generally,
• 18:01
  So fans could come up to me and natter away to me.
• 18:04
  Now, half the time they would complain, something was wrong, the ticket was lousy, their seat was crap, whatever it was.
• 18:12
  But I gave them an ear.
• 18:14
  So they felt that they had a voice.
• 18:17
  And, you know, I would get, they'd want photos taken with you and they'd want you to sign stuff and they'd want you to, you know.
• 18:23
  But you'd heard their grievance.
• 18:24
  You'd heard their thing.
• 18:24
  Yeah.
• 18:25
  But I gave them the time.
• 18:27
  It wasn't that big a deal.
• 18:28
  And I took up maybe an hour out of my most Saturdays at race meetings.
• 18:31
  Sometimes I'd do it on a Sunday morning as well.
• 18:35
  But it just gave them a bit of a voice.
• 18:38
  And because I had this underlying belief, I still do today, by the way, that you've got to make sure you're taking your fans with you on the journey.
• 18:51
  Because you know what?
• 18:52
  Without the fans, you've got nothing.
• 18:55
  I'm sorry.
• 18:55
  You can have the most wonderful kind of racing machinery going around.
• 19:01
  Sport, whatever.
• 19:01
  Yep, yep.
• 19:03
  No one gives a shit.
• 19:05
  The purists do.
• 19:06
  But you can't survive on purists.
• 19:09
  And, you know, I'll give you another great example.
• 19:13
  Many years ago, I was executive chair of the board, and in those days we had a couple of independents on our board and we had a couple of SEL guys, and then all those had four team owners.
• 19:25
  And I remember on this particular board, two of the team owners were Roland Dane and Keyes Will.
• 19:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:33
  And Roland had a fantastic proposition for a new brake system, new braking system.
• 19:38
  It was sort of modelled a bit on the DTM system and, you know, it was way technical, way above.
• 19:44
  I mean, I'm not even attempting to make out I understood.
• 19:46
  I didn't understand it at all.
• 19:48
  Yeah.
• 19:49
  And Keys was there pushing, you know, pushing the merits of this wonderful braking system to our cars.
• 19:55
  And Keys were always going to be the manufacturer of it.
• 19:58
  So da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
• 20:00
  And it was hundreds of thousands of dollars of cost to the sport.
• 20:04
  You know, significant cost to every single car in the sport because it was complete change from what we were doing.
• 20:10
  Anyway, this debate raised.
• 20:12
  I hardly said a word.
• 20:13
  I just cheered.
• 20:15
  I let the debate, you know, Scaifey was strong on his opinion.
• 20:17
  I think I got a feeling that who was the other team owner on the board at that stage?
• 20:23
  I reckon it might have been Ross Stone.
• 20:27
  And Ross Stone obviously had a strong opinion.
• 20:29
  You know, a couple of the other, you know, directors on the board had questions and opinions and questions.
• 20:37
  And this went on for, I don't know, maybe an hour.
• 20:40
  And then I said, right, okay, that's all fascinating stuff, but can I actually now just talk for the sport?
• 20:48
  And can I talk for the fan?
• 20:51
  In actual fact, let's take the main straight in Adelaide, the Clipsville 500.
• 20:56
  You've got that big grandstand in my day, 17,000, 18,000 people in it.
• 21:01
  Fantastic.
• 21:02
  Great atmosphere.
• 21:03
  The race starts...
• 21:05
  Tear that first corner.
• 21:07
  In actual fact, what 98% of the fan wants, he doesn't want an unbelievable breaking system that five or six in the grandstand that are purists are going, you know, wow, that's happening now and that, and see the breaking that's enabled him to get through that corner, that's, oh, this is so good, right?
• 21:29
  I'll tell you what's actually happening.
• 21:31
  Six or eight in that grandstand are thinking like that.
• 21:34
  And 16,960 are hoping that the only way the driver can get the car through that chicane is he's got to open the door, put his foot out, and use his foot to slow down the car to get through the corner, slam the door shut, and get through the corner.
• 21:51
  And what I mean by that statement is...
• 21:53
  They don't give a...
• 21:55
  They couldn't care anything about what the braking system is.
• 21:58
  They want to see action-packed, tight, rubbing, loud, banging, noise.
• 22:05
  Entertainment.
• 22:06
  Entertainment.
• 22:08
  And you can't... You know, you can go off and spend a fortune.
• 22:13
  Motor racing's probably the greatest example of all.
• 22:15
  You can go off and spend an absolute fortune in some technical area that doesn't sell you one grandstand seat.
• 22:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:24
  And that's just dumb.
• 22:25
  In my book, that's just absolutely D-U-M-B.
• 22:30
  And I think it's important that the show that you're putting on is a show that the consumer wants to consume and he wants to consume excitement.
• 22:41
  And if that's different winners, different race winners, different round winners, different cars, you know, the green car is going to beat the blue car today, the red car is going to beat the blue car tomorrow, the blue car is going to beat the red car next race meeting –
• 22:52
  then that's what you should be striving for at all times.
• 22:55
  That's the secret oil.
• 22:57
  And I think probably in my time I was far too much focused on the entertainment.
• 23:05
  You know, if I was going to be critical of myself, I was very focused on the entertainment package.
• 23:10
  Now I think it's just become, it's reverted itself back to some sort of purist kind of activity and...
• 23:17
  You know, its audience has dropped off and now there's a hell of a job to build that audience back up.
• 23:24
  A hell of a job to build that audience back up.
• 23:26
  Can it be done?
• 23:27
  Well, firstly, I live on the proverb that you never say never.
• 23:32
  So yes, can it be done?
• 23:34
  Yes would be my automatic answer.
• 23:36
  But by God, it's a big, big job.
• 23:39
  There's a line in the Days of Thunder movie.
• 23:42
  Robert Duvall plays a crew chief by the name of Harry Hogg, and they're arguing about something.
• 23:47
  And he uses a line where he goes, that's one too many roosters in the hen house.
• 23:52
  Now, you made a point when you left of not throwing things from the sidelines.
• 23:55
  You didn't think that that was a good thing to do.
• 23:57
  You were very quiet for a number of years when you first left the sport there.
• 24:00
  Do you feel like the structure now, that there's too many people on that?
• 24:05
  I mean, it sounds like there are stories of, you know, disharmony or whatever.
• 24:12
  I mean, motorsport cannot afford in this country to go through division again, right?
• 24:17
  We can't afford that.
• 24:18
  It's no good.
• 24:19
  But it doesn't...
• 24:21
  Well, I don't understand the structure of the new ownership at all.
• 24:24
  I'm sorry.
• 24:24
  To me, it's a bit bizarre how they've structured.
• 24:36
  I don't think it's a particularly effective structure to run that particular sport, and structure running sports is so critical.
• 24:42
  If everybody wants to understand why the AFL works so well in Australia, have a look at how well it's structured.
• 24:48
  It's a superbly structured sport, and it's a good reason why it's the number one sport in the country.
• 24:54
  Um, and I'm only an honorary guy on the sidelines of the AFL, so I'm not pumping their tyres up.
• 25:01
  You know, not to say that I don't have arguments with their commission as well, but it is very, very, very well structured.
• 25:09
  Look, this takes me back.
• 25:12
  So one of my great buddies that I've...
• 25:15
  got to know out of motorsport was clearly Mr Eccleston.
• 25:19
  Yes.
• 25:21
  Good old Bertie.
• 25:21
  I mean, Mr E was an extraordinary teacher.
• 25:26
  You know, I would say that he was responsible for more than half of my thinking with how I structured.
• 25:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:35
  The other great person that I came across in motorsport was the guy, Andrew Craig, the original guy I think I mentioned already in our story, who ran IndyCar.
• 25:49
  Cart on its head.
• 25:50
  Yep.
• 25:51
  Champ Car.
• 25:52
  Yep, yep.
• 25:52
  Champ Car.
• 25:53
  Now, the three of us all used to joke and laugh and have commentary at various times with each other,
• 26:01
  What are we talking to you, via email kind of deal?
• 26:04
  Or text?
• 26:04
  No, usually when we're caught up.
• 26:05
  Okay, yeah.
• 26:06
  Have a meal or drink or have a meeting in Mr E's office, whatever.
• 26:13
  But, you know, the joke was actually pretty true.
• 26:16
  And the joke was, doesn't motorsport work better when you've got...
• 26:22
  One person.
• 26:23
  One maniac at the top.
• 26:24
  Strong leadership, blah, blah, blah.
• 26:26
  Giving it strong leadership and calling the shots.
• 26:29
  You know, and I'm one of these people, I'm a bit of a weird bastard, but I don't really give a shit whether people think I've done a great job or a lousy job or an in-between job.
• 26:44
  But when I was running VO2 cars, no one, but no one in the paddock.
• 26:52
  in the pit lane, around the boardroom, had any question who was running the sport.
• 26:59
  And I gave it a real, guys, we're going in this direction.
• 27:05
  Good, bad, indifferent, that's where we're going.
• 27:09
  I freely admit I didn't otherwise get it right.
• 27:11
  But everybody knew what we were doing.
• 27:13
  Everybody knew exactly where we were going.
• 27:16
  And, you know, I had plenty of people try to head me off at the pass.
• 27:19
  I had plenty of people try to trip me up.
• 27:20
  I had plenty of people try to get my road.
• 27:23
  And, you know, I had some knockout blows and fights with plenty of people.
• 27:28
  But the truth of the matter is at the end of the day, everybody knew the direction of our sport and,
• 27:34
  And we were growing and we were doing phenomenal things.
• 27:37
  We were taking on great challenges and succeeding.
• 27:40
  Our fan base was growing astronomically.
• 27:43
  You know, we used to have war meetings after a round, usually on the Monday or the Tuesday, depending on where we were coming back from.
• 27:53
  with all the senior execs.
• 27:55
  And I would blow up.
• 27:56
  If we did a Winton or somewhere like that and the TV ratings dropped below 400,000, I would go into orbit.
• 28:02
  You know, if we went to, you know, Townsville and we didn't do 190,000 people, you know, I'd be, why, what did we do wrong?
• 28:12
  How can we do it better?
• 28:13
  Noble guys.
• 28:13
  What was wrong?
• 28:16
  they dream of numbers like that today.
• 28:17
  I mean, they're just not even on the radar.
• 28:20
  Not even on the radar.
• 28:21
  I mean, you know, Bathurst, we had a couple of Bathurst in my time where we topped out well over 2 million viewers.
• 28:27
  I mean, so maybe we were doing some things wrong, but by God, we were also doing a shitload of things right as well.
• 28:36
  And we elevated Australian motorsport.
• 28:39
  I mean, you know, I mean...
• 28:43
  every time I would go overseas and I'd end up at an FIA function, everybody at those functions would talk about, oh, the V8 supercars, wow, you know, boy, you know, I saw you on TV the other night, you know, in Brazil.
• 28:57
  You guys are unbelievable.
• 28:59
  You're doing a great job, you know.
• 29:01
  Wow, it's so exciting.
• 29:02
  It's looking so good.
• 29:03
  And I'd get that praise all over the world.
• 29:09
  So you end up
• 29:12
  pretty confident that we must be getting more things right than we're getting wrong.
• 29:16
  And we're delivering and, you know, and we grew the sport so amazingly, you know, we, when we started out, there was probably only 40 or 50, maybe 60 people working full time in what was group A touring cars.
• 29:28
  You know, the year I left, there was well over 2000 people employed in the sport.
• 29:34
  So we created a really good platform, a really good platform.
• 29:38
  And I'm immensely proud of it.
• 29:39
  I, you know, it's,
• 29:43
  It grew from humble things.
• 29:45
  Yeah, you're looking at a photo of the Adelaide 500 here, the inaugural one, the inaugural one.
• 29:50
  They didn't have a naming rights sponsor because we put it together so late.
• 29:55
  We ran without a naming rights sponsor.
• 29:57
  And again, the whole media wrote up big criticism of that.
• 30:00
  Oh, they've got no naming rights sponsor.
• 30:01
  This is bound to be a failure, yada, yada, yada.
• 30:06
  No, that's just one component.
• 30:08
  And sometimes you don't get every component right, but judge us what we do over five years.
• 30:12
  Don't judge us what we do over 10 minutes.
• 30:14
  And, of course...
• 30:16
  Calypso 500 as it grew to become, went on to be one of the, you know.
• 30:20
  I mean, we had a couple of years there, we had over 300,000 people for the weekend for V8 street race on the streets of Adelaide.
• 30:28
  You know, if I had said that to you 10 years before we reinvented the Adelaide street race, you just would have rolled around the ground laughing at me.
• 30:36
  You would have said, you're a maniac, you might get 30,000 people to a street race for V8.
• 30:43
  We aimed high, we achieved a lot, we had a real crack and had a terrific team, great, great group of people and a great group of team owners, by and large, great terrific group of team owners who really pitched in and were really proud of what they were building as much as we were in Britain, that sort of head on.
• 31:12
  I'm all for three part episodes, but gee whiz am I struggling for a quirky anecdote in the middle of the episode.
• 31:19
  Let's go with.
• 31:22
  Actually I'll save it for next time.
• 31:24
  Back to Tony.
• 31:27
  You talked before in our conversation about sometimes, you know, there's been fails and when that happens in...
• 31:34
  I'm talking right across your professional life here, not just necessarily supercars, that it knocks you around, that maybe you get into a funk, et cetera.
• 31:42
  What's been the toughest one of those things to deal with, to bounce back from?
• 31:50
  Uh...
• 31:51
  Because you're in a risk-reward game.
• 31:53
  Yeah, no, you are.
• 31:54
  You are.
• 31:55
  And, you know, there's parts of my mentality that I shouldn't be in that game because I am.
• 32:00
  So...
• 32:02
  Rusty, I've never needed a critic because I'm my own biggest critic.
• 32:05
  I'm really tough on what I set as standards and what I believe I can achieve and not achieve.
• 32:12
  So, again, that's not a good combination to be in this business.
• 32:19
  But, yeah, I...
• 32:22
  I seem to, yeah, I can get very low when things are not going well and you don't have a win, but I've also seemed to have this...
• 32:34
  strong Desire or whatever it is to bounce back and and get in get in and have another go um I tend not to stay down for too long.
• 32:44
  Um, and I hope I hope that stays the case It gets old it gets harder as you get older.
• 32:49
  I'm gonna be truthful.
• 32:50
  Um, but you know, I I Still like having a go and i'm still immensely proud of when you have a go, you know, you you take people with you on journeys You know, I mean
• 33:02
  our new journey of Essex Global, good, bad or indifferent, you know, we're having a go.
• 33:06
  We're trying things.
• 33:07
  We've got, you know, a young, exciting staff who, you know, are really off into the wild unknown.
• 33:16
  Where will we be in two years' time?
• 33:18
  Where will we be in three years' time?
• 33:19
  Where will we be in five years' time?
• 33:20
  God, where will it be in 10 years' time?
• 33:24
  But...
• 33:26
  I think so long as you're still having a crack, that's the most important thing.
• 33:33
  And look, I'm tough, but I don't like to leave people in my wake, as in I don't like to completely break balls and stuff.
• 33:41
  I mean, I'm...
• 33:44
  I'm happy to be tough, but I do like people to...
• 33:48
  I do like, at the end of the day, people to say, hey, I was on that journey with TC.
• 33:51
  It was a lot of fun.
• 33:52
  He was a great guy.
• 33:53
  We did have a lot of laughs or we did have some success or he's a good guy to be around or whatever.
• 34:02
  I mean, that's important to me too.
• 34:04
  I'm not...
• 34:07
  I'm not really actually driven that much by the almighty dollar.
• 34:10
  I mean, yes, it's important.
• 34:11
  I'd rather, you know, choice, would you rather be rich or poor?
• 34:15
  You know, not many people will pick the latter box.
• 34:18
  So, yeah.
• 34:22
  But, you know, I do think it's important on those journeys that you take people with you.
• 34:27
  To your point, one from Damien White who says, in my interview for an entry-level job at Supercars, we argued over salary.
• 34:34
  I wanted more, obviously.
• 34:36
  He told me, the good ones we keep, the shit ones we kick out the door, the great ones we keep moving up.
• 34:41
  Show me you're great.
• 34:43
  And he's always remembered that quote.
• 34:44
  Yeah.
• 34:45
  Really cool.
• 34:46
  It sounds like a very Tony Cochran thing to say.
• 34:49
  I can't deny it.
• 34:50
  It sounds like the sort of thing exactly I'd say.
• 34:51
  Well, Damien was a good example.
• 34:53
  You know, he came to us.
• 34:54
  He was a, you know, rural recruit out of left field and, and, um, you know, just really grew on the job, you know, and, and, and, and has grown a whole career out of, out of being in that job.
• 35:05
  And there's lots of them out there that have, you know, ended up with great careers out of their jobs.
• 35:10
  And I take immense pride in that.
• 35:11
  And, um,
• 35:13
  you know, unfortunately I'm one of these people, I've had so many pathways in my life that it's hard to, I don't even try and keep up with people, but you know, it still, you know, it gives me a buzz to see, oh, such and such is now working in such and such, and you know, they started out with us in V8 days, and yeah,
• 35:36
  Yeah, all of that.
• 35:37
  All of that's pretty important.
• 35:39
  A couple to finish here.
• 35:40
  Firstly, on the Supercast chapter, I mean, 17 amazing years, great deal that ends the chapter.
• 35:47
  The good drivers, the good sports people, the good leaders know when it's time, when a chapter and it's time to try something new.
• 35:57
  Was it that way with you?
• 35:58
  Did you miss it when it went?
• 36:01
  How did you deal with the...
• 36:04
  I know you were busy afterwards, so you probably had things to occupy you, but did you miss it?
• 36:08
  How did you go with that?
• 36:09
  Yeah, well, that's a complex question, and it's going to get a complex answer.
• 36:13
  So, look, by and large, I was pushed at the end.
• 36:19
  The archer...
• 36:23
  thing didn't really work for me and there was quite a few dynamics going on in the background and I was very, very opposed to what they thought they could do with a TV deal.
• 36:36
  So, yeah, I was at loggerheads on some issues like that and I think there was a view that...
• 36:52
  I had done my time that 17 years was enough.
• 36:55
  It was time for me to move on.
• 36:57
  And there was people in the background trying to make that happen.
• 37:05
  So I was kind of happy in the end to get out of it because I didn't like the look of it.
• 37:19
  But it's still your baby.
• 37:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:22
  Um, so you don't like saying some of the things that are happening now.
• 37:26
  Do you that that wounds you is that right?
• 37:28
  Oh, and have done has done for 10 years.
• 37:30
  Um, so, um, you know, um I I think that um Again, i'll use a dick johnson expression dick of a season.
• 37:41
  I be careful what you wish for and I I think I
• 37:45
  In seeing the end of me they wish for bigger and brighter times ahead with not so much control in one person That would take them to the promised land and the truth is within a very short space of time those who have got any memory worked out hang on Batman all is not well in the world here and you know It's never made anything like the prophet that I had it up to not even close I
• 38:13
  You know, it's diminished in the number of events.
• 38:16
  International events have disappeared completely off the calendar.
• 38:20
  TV ratings have dropped.
• 38:23
  Sponsorships have dropped.
• 38:26
  All sorts of things have vanished.
• 38:28
  Big crowds have vanished, you know.
• 38:32
  And so just maybe, just maybe, I did get a lot more things right than perhaps wrong.
• 38:40
  But it still hurts to see that happen because, you know, I put 17 years of a shitload of energy into building it up.
• 38:48
  I did never envisage that it would drop down.
• 38:51
  I certainly never envisaged it would get down to sort of the levels it has.
• 38:57
  I, you know, and I would have I would have hoped by now that it's a Seriously big business that you know dwarfed our time and so that it kicked on and and made what we did look like a good start But now look where we are, you know, that that's kind of what you that's got I think if you're doing my kind of role in sport That's what you
• 39:20
  always want out of it.
• 39:23
  It's kind of like you've got currency over for a while, but you never own it.
• 39:28
  You're only handing it on to the next person and then he or she runs with it and they take it to another level and then he or she runs with it and they take it to another level.
• 39:36
  So over a period of a course of history, you know, the thing grows and becomes bigger and becomes more dynamic and becomes more influential and all those things.
• 39:45
  And regrettably, I don't think there's anybody else
• 39:48
  out there right now saying, oh, no, no, no, you've got this completely wrong, TC.
• 39:52
  It's much, much bigger than when you were there.
• 39:55
  You are playing in AFL land now and have been for a while.
• 39:59
  How are you finding that?
• 40:00
  Are you jousting with the Melbourne sport press?
• 40:03
  Is that another level compared to what you dealt with in motorsport?
• 40:06
  How have you found that whole journey?
• 40:07
  I've always jousted with press my whole life.
• 40:11
  You love the game, I know.
• 40:12
  Yeah, look, okay, so AFL is a labour of love for me.
• 40:18
  I grew up playing the game.
• 40:20
  I loved the game.
• 40:21
  You know, I'm freely on the record of saying in Adelaide days, a sturt football club was a bit like my schooling because I hated school.
• 40:29
  I loved the sturt footy club.
• 40:32
  So when the AFL, around the time of when I was getting out of, selling out of V8 supercars, the AFL approached me and asked me would I join the board of the Suns because the Suns had only been going two or three years and they had some real commercial challenges.
• 40:47
  They wanted me to come onto the board and help.
• 40:49
  I initially said I couldn't for about...
• 40:52
  period because I wanted to put a gap between supercars and that.
• 40:56
  So I think I can't remember exactly, but I think I put six months in the end between the two.
• 41:01
  I joined the board of the Suns.
• 41:04
  Being a board member of an AFL club is an honorary role, so this is, you know, gratis.
• 41:08
  This is just to give back.
• 41:09
  That's how I viewed it.
• 41:12
  And so I did that for about two years.
• 41:15
  And then John Withereff, the then president, wanted to step down.
• 41:20
  He'd sort of had enough.
• 41:21
  He'd done the first, I think, six or seven years.
• 41:24
  And so I stepped up.
• 41:28
  The commission asked me to...
• 41:30
  take on the role as chair.
• 41:32
  And one of the things they were concerned about at that stage was that the sons were seen as a bit irrelevant and we were being pounded to death, not only on the football field but off the football field.
• 41:46
  Um... Because a proud Gold Coast, you wanted to change that, basically, did you?
• 41:49
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:50
  Absolutely.
• 41:51
  Because I'm a really big believer in that there's a huge future for the AFL in Queensland.
• 41:56
  Forget the Gold Coast.
• 41:57
  But definitely on the Gold Coast.
• 41:59
  And we've seen it now.
• 42:00
  Our junior numbers are phenomenal.
• 42:01
  Just frightening.
• 42:03
  So, um...
• 42:05
  Yeah, so I jumped in and I did a few things to help the club.
• 42:10
  You know, I raised $22 million for the new TNA Centre from federal and state governments and the like, which I, you know, had good experience from doing in my V8 days.
• 42:21
  And, you know, I sat around, you know, getting some better people in the club and changing the club culture.
• 42:26
  And, you know, we're now finally on a real journey.
• 42:29
  We've got a very exciting young list and we're going to have our most successful year ever this year.
• 42:35
  And, you know, I think even our harshest critic would say that the chances of getting into finals from next year onwards is looking very, very good.
• 42:44
  um but you know again i've i'm i'm a bit of a believer in um uh when you're on boards and that particularly honorary uh that you only do a certain period of time and then it it becomes time to find somebody else with the enthusiasm and the level because i wouldn't mind going back to being
• 43:03
  Fan.
• 43:04
  Fan.
• 43:04
  Okay.
• 43:05
  Yeah, because I really enjoy the footy.
• 43:07
  I love going to the footy.
• 43:08
  I used to cram it in all I could during my V8 days.
• 43:13
  And so, you know, there'll come a time in the foreseeable future where I step down from that role and let somebody else step up and take it as, again, you know, I've taken it part of the journey.
• 43:23
  Now, somebody else will come along, grab the baton and take it to the next journey.
• 43:27
  Um and um, you know despite the fact that I like to keep thinking i'm still really young Unfortunately, my birth certificate doesn't tell me that so um, yeah, it's it's it's hard cramming everything into my life um And uh pretty taxing so um Uh, but it's been a i've really enjoyed it.
• 43:48
  I've really enjoyed i've even enjoyed the camaraderie with the melbourne media and everything You know, I mean, um, uh, you
• 43:54
  I think they learnt very early in the piece, you know, that they couldn't just have a free kick at the Suns anymore.
• 43:59
  I would more than fight back and stand up and, you know, put my 10 cents worth out there, which I've certainly done.
• 44:08
  You know, I've been a voice in the AFL and, you know, good sports need voices.
• 44:14
  I have no problem with that.
• 44:15
  And...
• 44:19
  It's been a really, really interesting nine years.
• 44:22
  I've really enjoyed it.
• 44:23
  Have you?
• 44:24
  Motorsport, in addition to what you're doing with SX Global, is still in the family because Thea is doing some great things around Motorsport Australia, isn't she?
• 44:32
  Yeah, well, Thea's been on the board of Motorsport Australia, the old cams, for...
• 44:37
  Oh, gosh, it's probably four years now.
• 44:39
  Time flies when you're having fun.
• 44:40
  And they put her on the board because they wanted some marketing expertise, you know, and Thea's just done, for example, all the branding you see on SX Global.
• 44:50
  That was Thea's company working with Pangaea in London that has pulled all of that together.
• 44:57
  And, you know, she certainly...
• 45:00
  She's certainly helped give Motorsport Australia a bit of a marketing edge, as it were, and a bit of marketing insight.
• 45:08
  She's really enjoyed it.
• 45:10
  She's a greater admirer of Gary Conley, as are we both.
• 45:15
  And, you know, Gary asked her initially to, would she be prepared to put his name forward?
• 45:21
  And she did.
• 45:23
  um i think she thoroughly enjoyed you know that journey and uh you know i don't know how much longer she intends to um do that for but you know we both we both love being around motorsport i mean you you asked before you know you you made some comment about you know when i got out how did it go over getting out and all the rest of the one part that i do miss is a camaraderie in pit lane i mean i had lots and lots of really good friends in pit lane it's a special sport in that regard mate isn't it
• 45:48
  Yeah, it is.
• 45:51
  It's really good.
• 45:51
  And, you know, we had a lot of fun, a lot of fun up there.
• 45:55
  We had plenty of arguments.
• 45:56
  We had plenty of tears and plenty of biffo as well.
• 45:59
  But, you know, we had an awful lot of fun.
• 46:01
  And, you know, I admire enormously those guys who, you know, roll it out week after week and try and make it happen.
• 46:11
  And it's a weird sport because for a big chunk of the –
• 46:15
  In any motorsport this is, by the way, for a big chunk of the pit lane, they know that they can't have success as in wins.
• 46:22
  So that takes a special person to keep fronting up time and time and time and time and time again.
• 46:31
  But, you know, there are a lot of really good characters in Australian motorsport.
• 46:35
  I want to quickly talk about what's in the garage because you told the Enforcer and the dude not all that long ago on their show about a bullet Mustang.
• 46:44
  Now, the reason I raise this very quickly is because, if memory serves, when I covered the Australian Rally Championship for 10, your brother raced a late 60s one, a campaign one in rallying, didn't he?
• 46:54
  He did.
• 46:55
  Yeah.
• 46:55
  Yeah.
• 46:56
  Koko Senior was a mad keen rallier.
• 46:59
  That was a beast, that thing.
• 47:00
  I mean, to think you could rally one of those.
• 47:02
  It was a tyre killer.
• 47:03
  But anyway, beautiful.
• 47:03
  Cool car.
• 47:04
  Cool car.
• 47:04
  Yeah, he rallied all over the joint, all over the world.
• 47:09
  I think he did London to Sydney a couple of times.
• 47:11
  Awesome.
• 47:11
  He did Route 66 across America a couple of times and Vladivok stock to the Red Sea or something.
• 47:20
  My brother was a lunatic for getting behind the wheel of a car and driving it anywhere he could.
• 47:26
  But yeah, hit you right here, Mustang.
• 47:29
  I've always had a soft spot for American muscle cars of, you know, particularly the 50s and 60s.
• 47:37
  And so, yeah, the opportunity came.
• 47:39
  I got uniquely in the queue, a bit of bribery, stealing and corruption.
• 47:44
  when they brought out the 40th anniversary bullet i put my name down and uh yeah i've got one of those and i don't run up many k's on it i like to keep it perfectly preserved little old driven by a little old lady to church on sunday um but it's a beautiful car it's a really great piece of car and it's got a great sound and uh you know it's uh
• 48:07
  uh it's a thumping v8 which i love and uh in fact all my cars are v8s but that one really sounds like the thumping v8 um but yeah look cars are cars are part of life they're part of my passion um you know i'm not some sort of crazy car perv i don't go nuts over them uh and i'd like to own a couple more of them to be truthful and you know i've um
• 48:33
  uh missed out on a couple of opportunities with ones in america that i tried to get um but you know look they're a beautiful piece of machinery and it just hurts me when people talk about you know we'll come to a time where cars will only be a commute thing they'll all be square boxes driven by electric batteries and nothing else i think the world will be a poorer place um
• 48:54
  I think cars add so much and everything that hangs off a car adds so much to society.
• 49:01
  You know, it does create a rich vein of all sorts of people and all sorts of interests.
• 49:08
  I had a chat with Chip Foose at one stage, who's a renowned, you know, car designer and so on, and I talked to him about, you know, what if we got to that world where it was all just fridges on wheels and we all just, you know, order it, it'll pick you up and go.
• 49:21
  Will there still be a want to put a cool paint scheme?
• 49:25
  And he looked at me and he goes, that's like saying fashion will die.
• 49:29
  People will always do something to personalise, to customise, to have something cool in their garage, which I reckon that's a really true statement.
• 49:38
  I want to finish.
• 49:39
  Well, the converse statement of that is, ask me the question of when did car racing start?
• 49:46
  When did car racing start?
• 49:47
  When they built the second car.
• 49:49
  Exactly, exactly.
• 49:51
  So, to my last question for you, it's been fabulous for over two hours.
• 49:54
  Thank you to shoot the Beresia, and I'm sure there's lots more that we could cover.
• 49:58
  The show must go on is a great saying in your world, and that's changed over time to all sorts of different things, from music acts to motorsport to AFL, you name it.
• 50:09
  Is there one event, one thing that you've done that ranks in your mind right now as the greatest achievement?
• 50:16
  What's the one that you – I mean, you've done closing ceremony shows for major, major sporting events and so on.
• 50:23
  What's the one that stands in your mind that you're most proud of?
• 50:28
  Wow, that's a really hard question to finish with.
• 50:33
  I don't know.
• 50:34
  They become like children.
• 50:36
  So it's a bit like saying one child's better than the other child and this child's the most superior of all of them.
• 50:40
  And then you raise them and move them on to the next one, is what you're saying?
• 50:44
  Yeah, you kind of do a bit.
• 50:45
  You know, I mean, look, I'm immensely proud of lots and lots of pieces of work that I've been able to do and the people I've been able to do it with.
• 50:53
  You know, I've worked with my wife.
• 50:56
  It's only been my wife for 15 years, but we've worked together for nearly 30.
• 50:59
  That's been immensely proud for me because we've done so much together and we've got very different attributes, but we complement each other really well.
• 51:11
  I'm going to pick something that you're probably not expecting me to pick.
• 51:16
  I got immense pleasure out of creating the Rolling Stones exhibition.
• 51:22
  Cool.
• 51:25
  It was... Lee Diffie talks about it very fondly, being with you in New York, I think it was.
• 51:30
  Yeah, he was in New York.
• 51:31
  His wife, Makayla, was starstruck when Mick walked in and things like that.
• 51:34
  Keep going.
• 51:35
  Sorry I interrupted you.
• 51:36
  So, look, it was such a long shot and, you know, it originated out of it, a very corny almost thought.
• 51:45
  In about 2013, we always used to have, you know, after Christmas in Aspen, we had a place in Aspen in those days and we're over there and my daughter bought me a Christmas present late because she arrived late and it was the Rolling Stones 50th anniversary book.
• 52:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 52:04
  And, you know, I'm sort of one of these guys who if I ski in the morning, I have the afternoon off.
• 52:10
  If I ski in the afternoon, I have the morning off.
• 52:13
  And so I'm a massive reader.
• 52:15
  I consume material, reading material by the truckload.
• 52:20
  And so I sat down and started to read this book and I became totally fascinated.
• 52:24
  You know, I mean, I was a big lover of the band.
• 52:27
  Anyway, long story short, that pricked the idea to do a massive exhibition because I was aware through people close to the Stones that they'd kept a lot of their
• 52:37
  memorabilia a lot of their stuff from many many years uh in a warehouse outside of london and so um theo and i went off on a journey to convince the rolling stones that you need to do an exhibition and you know to take the four of them and their manager on that journey of you know
• 52:56
  would you do it to can we do it and how we're going to do it and the money needed to do it and then to raise the phenomenal levels of sponsorship we raised and then to actually spend 18 months working very closely with the four members of the band but particularly Mick and what an amazing learning curve that was you know I often say people ask me why do you think the Rolling Stones are such a huge band all these years on well
• 53:25
  one really big answer is Mick Jagger.
• 53:26
  I mean Mick Jagger's attention to detail and control is extraordinary.
• 53:34
  And so for 18 months we worked on and off in London.
• 53:37
  We had an apartment there.
• 53:38
  We worked on and off in London creating this exhibition.
• 53:41
  working with them on every little detail.
• 53:44
  And we opened at Saatchi Gallery in 2016.
• 53:48
  And it really, sorry for the fact that it was a massive party, to indoor parties, the whole build-up into getting that right and then to...
• 53:59
  Not many things emotionally moved me as much as this, but we had the fortunate situation.
• 54:06
  The four band members just had played their one-off big show in Cuba and they came back to England for the opening exhibition, which was going to be a week later.
• 54:15
  And because of that, we had it ready for almost a week.
• 54:20
  And one by one, we had times where they all came in to go through it personally on their own.
• 54:28
  One or two of them brought, like, you know, a partner or a family member.
• 54:34
  So Theo and I had the pleasure of taking them through their own immersive journey.
• 54:39
  whatever it was, 16,000 square feet exhibition, which was divided up into 11 chapters.
• 54:46
  And I will never forget taking Keith Richards through and how emotional Keith became and how appreciative he was.
• 55:01
  that he was that we'd really recreated their life and time so accurately.
• 55:07
  And, you know, it was maybe two hours, but it was two of the most special hours certainly of my life.
• 55:17
  I know Theo feels the same way, just being with Keith and hearing his reactions and then...
• 55:23
  getting a huge hug from him for both of us at the end, just saying that was truly amazing.
• 55:29
  That was absolutely wonderful.
• 55:30
  And it was just one of those moments in your life that you almost will never forget.
• 55:36
  And it was just an extraordinary, you know, piece de resistance on top of what had been... Are you a little emotional there?
• 55:44
  Yeah, yeah, I am.
• 55:45
  I am.
• 55:46
  It was two years of really hard work, a lot of travel, a lot of pushing...
• 55:52
  hard to raise that all that money and you know it was it was just such a special moment to share that with somebody who is truly one of the greats of music of all time of all time no question i mean keith richards is an extraordinary individual
• 56:10
  Order of Australian medals, great things with supercars, continuing that with the AFL, an awesome new venture because I love two-wheel stuff as well with SX Global, with the World Championship there.
• 56:20
  We wish you well.
• 56:22
  Thank you very much.
• 56:23
  No, it's been enjoyable.
• 56:24
  Cheers, Rusty.
• 56:25
  Appreciate it.
• 56:31
  What a conversation.
• 56:33
  That is one of the longest pods I've done in quite some time.
• 56:36
  I would love your thoughts on it.
• 56:38
  You can't argue with the achievements Tony Cochran has had along the way.
• 56:42
  COVID and lockdowns, I would imagine, have been very tough on that business.
• 56:47
  But it sounds like he's his own hardest marker.
• 56:50
  Maybe you've got a view on whether V8 should have been kept in the supercar's name and some of those little things that he spoke about that have been gradually taken away from the fans in his opinion.
• 57:02
  Has that changed the level of your commitment to the sport?
• 57:06
  I'd love to know.
• 57:07
  Some in Miss V8's supercar have gone on to other important roles in the sport but we've also evolved and we're doing great things to shine a light on the sport.
• 57:15
  on women in all areas of the game now, from driving to engineering, management and media.
• 57:21
  And just on his view on the shift in the TV deal toward a shared pay TV terrestrial model in Australia with only a handful of rounds on commercial TV, those that did the deal at the time would argue...
• 57:34
  It was more lucrative, in their opinion, with a greater value or hours of coverage dedicated to things like practice and support categories.
• 57:41
  But its second stint on 10 was nowhere near as successful as the golden era in the early 2000s, and keeping the category largely behind a paywall in the eyes of fans and some commercially heavily.
• 57:53
  has wounded its popularity.
• 57:55
  And would solo autocratic leadership still work?
• 57:59
  Formula One's gone away from that model.
• 58:02
  And what do you think of this awesome Supercross project?
• 58:04
  I reckon it is tailor-made to connect with younger fans and will really benefit from the great sense of show that Tony has, not to mention the people and the ingredients that they're already putting in place around that.
• 58:18
  I cannot wait to see it.
• 58:22
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 58:26
  Series editor and producer is Ed Gooden.
• 58:30
  Audio production by Link Kelly.
• 58:32
  If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me via social media.
• 58:37
  The Garage.
• 58:38
  It's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fuelled stories.