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The attack on Helen Haines and what we know · The Morning Edition

• 0:08
  S1: It was only last week that independent MP Helen Haines
• 0:12
  S1: spoke about why Australians were so angry.
• 0:15
  S2: Well, right now they are angry about the cost of living.
• 0:17
  S2: They are angry that their insurance premiums are unaffordable. They
• 0:20
  S2: are angry that costs at the supermarket have gone up
• 0:23
  S2: close to 10% in the in the last 12 months.
• 0:25
  S1: And for people living in regional areas like hers, access
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  S1: to health care was a massive issue.
• 0:31
  S2: I don't want to see cuts in government spending to
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  S2: health care. They want to see cuts to waste.
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  S1: Now, many are wondering how such a popular Uncontentious MP
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  S1: could have become the target of what appears to be
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  S1: an overt and targeted act of political violence. I'm Samantha
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  S1: Salinger Morris, and you're listening to The Morning Edition from
• 0:53
  S1: the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Today, national correspondent
• 0:57
  S1: Rob Harris reporting from Wangaratta on the attack on Helen Haines. Rob,
• 1:07
  S1: welcome back to the podcast.
• 1:08
  S3: Thanks for having me.
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  S1: Now you're in Wangaratta in northeast Victoria at the moment
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  S1: reporting on this horrible attack. Can you just tell us
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  S1: what is it like there today and how is it
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  S1: impacting people?
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  S3: Oh, look, it's a fairly grim and sort of sombre mood.
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  S3: We've been sort of stood outside Helen Heinz's office here
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  S3: in the main street of Wangaratta, Murphy Street, for the
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  S3: last few hours. There are flowers and sort of well-wishes
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  S3: coming past and laying wreaths and, uh, talking to local media.
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  S3: Everyone is basically just in shock. Really. It's, uh, was
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  S3: sort of the last thing anyone expected here. Helen Haines
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  S3: is obviously a very sort of prominent and local MP
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  S3: has been in for nearly three terms now. And yeah,
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  S3: there's a, there's a lot of shock and, and grief
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  S3: and sort of a lot of people praying that, uh,
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  S3: that she makes it through.
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  S1: And can you talk to us about how this horrible
• 2:01
  S1: attack unfolded on Monday afternoon?
• 2:03
  S3: Well, we are still learning a lot. What we know
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  S3: is that around just after 3:30 yesterday, a man driving
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  S3: a white Toyota Land Cruiser drove past Helen Haines in
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  S3: the street. And, uh, according to, uh, what politicians Tony
• 2:19
  S3: Burke and the Prime Minister have said in various press conferences,
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  S3: sort of doubled back and ran into her. And, of course,
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  S3: Tony Burke, the Home Affairs minister, revealed he he ran
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  S3: into her multiple times. Um, and that obviously set off
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  S3: quite the shockwave through Australian politics. The Prime Minister addressed
• 2:37
  S3: the country last night around about 7:00.
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  S4: All of our thoughts are with Helen, her family, her friends,
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  S4: her team and her community at this extremely difficult time.
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  S4: We are praying for her full recovery.
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  S3: And unveiled that, uh, there was a sort of terror
• 2:57
  S3: counterterror task force.
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  S4: The Australian Federal Police, Victorian Police and ASIO are working
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  S4: together on this. The joint counter-terrorism team has been activated,
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  S4: but the motive is not known.
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  S3: The man is in custody. He has been named today
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  S3: as a 43 year old man. Brendan Nugent from Tarrawingee,
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  S3: which is a small community up the road here in Wangaratta.
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  S3: He was known to police. He is known in some
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  S3: parts of the community. Tim Mckirdy, who is the local
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  S3: Victorian MP here in state Parliament, went on radio this morning,
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  S3: said he was also known. He'd never been violent with
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  S3: anyone in his office, but he was known to his office,
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  S3: so he's expected to be interviewed further this afternoon by police. Um,
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  S3: and we, uh, don't really know what his motivations were.
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  S1: And what about Helen Haines? What is her condition now?
• 3:52
  S3: Well, we haven't had much update at all. Uh, she
• 3:56
  S3: is regarded still as in critical condition. She was flown
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  S3: to hospital last night and had surgery. There is some
• 4:02
  S3: fear over whether she will keep her legs at this stage.
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  S3: Or one leg in particular is, um grave fears that
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  S3: she she may lose that, but we haven't had an update. Uh,
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  S3: so the last update is still critical at this stage.
• 4:16
  S1: And Rob, I'd love it if you could give us
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  S1: a bit more of a sense of just how beloved
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  S1: I guess Helen Haines is, which is something of a
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  S1: rare thing sometimes in politics, because our colleague James Massola
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  S1: questioned right after the attack, you know, how on earth
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  S1: could Helen Haines, of all people, have become a target
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  S1: for anyone, given that she isn't a divisive figure? She's
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  S1: not controversial. She's highly respected on all sides of politics
• 4:40
  S1: because that's also been the reaction of many MPs, hasn't it?
• 4:43
  S3: Yeah. That's right. Look, Helen Haines sort of is an
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  S3: independent MP. She, for those of you who followed Australian
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  S3: politics for a long time, she was elected in 2019
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  S3: off the back of Cathy McGowan, who was, um, really
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  S3: the front runner to a lot of this teal movement
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  S3: in Australia, this independent woman who sort of place climate
• 5:02
  S3: change and integrity front and centre. Um, and Helen Haines
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  S3: was able to reclaim the seat for a similar independent
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  S3: movement when when Cathy McGowan retired. Look, she is a
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  S3: medical researcher. That's what she is. She's a doctor and
• 5:17
  S3: and also worked as a nurse. Um, the matron in
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  S3: a local bush nursing hospital not far up the road here,
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  S3: previously sort of very well known in the community. Um,
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  S3: has really made a thing in Parliament around integrity. She
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  S3: has been a integral, I guess, in the setting up
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  S3: of the National Integrity Commission.
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  S2: Integrity and government. And Parliament is absolutely core to public
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  S2: confidence in our democracy integrity.
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  S3: And she is pretty much beloved. She's, you know, no nonsense. Uh,
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  S3: a compassionate person doesn't really fall for partisan politics.
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  S2: But how much longer can voters be expected to see
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  S2: major party promises realised? Key promises like those I've listed
• 6:00
  S2: tonight that have been made again and again with little
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  S2: to show for it.
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  S3: And a very, very well regarded as someone who's sort
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  S3: of based in science, uh, and involved in a lot
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  S3: of committees and really loved on sort of both sides
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  S3: of politics.
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  S1: And were there any controversial issues, though, that Helen Haines
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  S1: was either advocating for or opposing, you know, that maybe
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  S1: could have got people off side, you know, and, and otherwise,
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  S1: what were the issues that she was really passionate about?
• 6:29
  S3: Well, integrity has been a big issue for her this year.
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  S3: I mean, she's made headlines over sort of two issues
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  S3: this year. And when I say headlines, it's not that
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  S3: she was controversial, it's just that she was probably a
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  S3: lead speaker in prosecuting them. That was the National Integrity Commission. And, uh,
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  S3: the ongoing sort of controversy around it's, uh, it's commissioner who,
• 6:48
  S3: who resigned and it's, um, the way it was handling, uh, inquiries.
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  S3: She's been very vocal about that and making sure that, uh,
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  S3: sort of integrity is an anti-corruption is hard of the government.
• 7:00
  S3: And recently she was very vocal in a story that
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  S3: involved the prime minister, actually, and funding for his local
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  S3: golf club as part of a community grant sports, uh,
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  S3: scheme that, uh, came under the, uh, attention of, um,
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  S3: auditors and the center for Public Integrity. She was a
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  S3: lead spokesman on that and very vocal on that, and
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  S3: probably got up the Prime Minister's nose quite a bit
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  S3: because she was, uh, basically saying, you know, this has
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  S3: to be above politics. This, this shouldn't be sort of
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  S3: pork barrelling. And, um, these are the issues she sort
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  S3: of really made her name from, and it's earned her
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  S3: a lot of respect right across Parliament.
• 7:36
  S1: Well, it's interesting you note there that that might have
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  S1: got up. The Prime Minister knows because I think some
• 7:40
  S1: listeners will have seen Anthony Albanese's quite emotional interview with
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  S1: the ABC about this attack on Helen Haines.
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  S4: She's someone who's always worth listening to because her motives
• 7:53
  S4: are good doesn't mean we always agree. But I do
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  S4: always agree that her motives are good, and she's just
• 8:02
  S4: a thoroughly decent, respectful human being who.
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  S1: And it's not. It's not that often that we see
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  S1: Anthony Albanese very emotional. So perhaps that's a testament to
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  S1: how respected she is, I guess.
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  S3: Yeah for sure. And look, I think if you, I,
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  S3: I follow politics obviously in Canberra for a long time. And,
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  S3: and this has been an sort of an issue. MP
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  S3: safety has been an issue that's slowly sort of really
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  S3: um gathered a lot of momentum internally. They have been
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  S3: MPs for, for 6 or 7 years saying this was
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  S3: this day was coming, you know, that they have been
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  S3: really um concerned about online behaviour, about the behaviour of
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  S3: the way people speak to each other online. But also
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  S3: I think one MP sort of puts it well, the
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  S3: type of people that engage with a politician or a
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  S3: politician's office are obviously people that are highly engaged in politics,
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  S3: or they're people at the end of their tether. And,
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  S3: you know, for a lot of people in the community that, uh,
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  S3: you know, an MP is, is someone they, whether they've got, uh,
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  S3: issues in their life, they seem to take it out on. And, um,
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  S3: there has been a lot of fears amongst MPs. We've
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  S3: seen the stats that the growing number of sort of threats,
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  S3: violent threats have been made against MPs over the past year.
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  S3: And it's it's been something that's been talked about. So
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  S3: today and last night there were a lot of MPs
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  S3: who are really rattled, mainly because they thought this day
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  S3: was coming. They were shocked but really not surprised. But
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  S3: the big surprise that it was someone like Doctor Helen Haines,
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  S3: who is really a well respected and and rather inoffensive politician.
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  S1: Well, I wanted to ask you a bit about, uh,
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  S1: you know, the feeling among MPs in Australia that they
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  S1: are perhaps at greater risk because we know that Albanese
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  S1: himself revealed this year he had spent weeks away from
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  S1: his Sydney residence as the government bolstered security and built
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  S1: a blast resistant safety bunker in Kirribilli House. Uh, and
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  S1: we know that Liberal MP Andrew Hastie recently received major
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  S1: security upgrades to his home and office because of threats
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  S1: against him. So is there some feeling. I don't know,
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  S1: or suggestion that perhaps our MPs have not been adequately protected.
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  S3: Look, it's certainly been an issue for a long time.
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  S3: And the budget this year, uh, allowed for a lot
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  S3: more funding to go towards it. I mean, there are
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  S3: sort of two issues here. And the fact that no
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  S3: one is really advocating sort of Secret Service style security
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  S3: 24 over seven. I mean, Australian politics, we're very lucky
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  S3: in this country that politics, politicians can walk the street,
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  S3: they can go to community events. Um, but there are
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  S3: increasing fears about sort of and AFP warns MPs about,
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  S3: you know, overly promoting where they're going to be. Um,
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  S3: they encourage people not to post photos of events while
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  S3: they're at the events. You know, do it hours after
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  S3: you've left, etc., etc.. But, you know, there is some
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  S3: things that there are really concerned about and that's the
• 11:02
  S3: just the ability to identify where politicians live, how they
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  S3: travel to work, etcetera, etcetera. And I think, um, that's
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  S3: probably going to be the focus of a lot of
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  S3: discussion over the coming weeks and months. But I think
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  S3: first and foremost, I think everyone's mind is is with
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  S3: Helen Haines and making sure that that she gets through this.
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  S1: And, Rob, has there ever been an attack like this
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  S1: on an Australian politician in our history or even an assassination?
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  S3: Look, there's been various near misses in sort of post-war Australia.
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  S3: There's been quite a few events 100 years ago, but
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  S3: the one most people will remember was the assassination of
• 11:41
  S3: a New South Wales state MP in 1994, John Newman.
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  S3: And really that will. That is the the reference point
• 11:48
  S3: you'll hear for the coming days. I think that was
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  S3: the last real horrific attack on Australian politicians. So that
• 11:55
  S3: was revealed later on that that was linked to organised crime.
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  S3: Newman was a quite a prominent anti-drug campaigner. Uh, and, uh,
• 12:03
  S3: and the person involved was linked with organised crime in, uh,
• 12:08
  S3: in Sydney's west.
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  S1: And Rob, just to wrap up, I wanted to ask
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  S1: you about, I guess, what this means more broadly for
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  S1: us because some listeners will be so aware of the
• 12:17
  S1: numerous shocking attacks or attempted attacks on elected officials in
• 12:21
  S1: other countries. Donald Trump, of course, has been targeted a
• 12:25
  S1: number of times. Earlier this year, former Tory minister and
• 12:28
  S1: reform UK recruit Ann Widdecombe was attacked in her home.
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  S1: And this follows, you know, many other attacks over the years.
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  S1: But it seemed that, you know, perhaps we might continue
• 12:38
  S1: to be isolated from these types of violence. So what
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  S1: does it say about Australia now that this has happened?
• 12:45
  S3: Yeah. Well, it's there's been a I think most people
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  S3: involved would suggest it's been coming. There's been a coarsening
• 12:53
  S3: of the discourse. We of course, we don't know the
• 12:55
  S3: motives of this. And um and, and we don't know
• 12:58
  S3: that the reasons why, uh, Helen Haines is at the
• 13:00
  S3: centre of this. But regardless of, of that, I think
• 13:04
  S3: everyone has sort of agreed that things have been getting
• 13:07
  S3: worse and that perhaps this day has been coming just
• 13:10
  S3: because of the rhetoric of the dehumanisation of the way
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  S3: people are talked about in in public debates. And I
• 13:17
  S3: think this is a this is a turning point for
• 13:19
  S3: Australian politics. I, you know, like, obviously we've seen in
• 13:23
  S3: in Britain over the past ten years, uh, since the Brexit, uh,
• 13:27
  S3: sort of debate and Jo Cox, her murder there, uh,
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  S3: worsening of that situation, uh, in America, we know how
• 13:34
  S3: violence has been part of its political discourse for a long,
• 13:37
  S3: long time. Uh, and it seems like it has come
• 13:40
  S3: to Australia right now. And it's a very scary moment,
• 13:43
  S3: I think, for the country.
• 13:44
  S1: It really is. Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 13:48
  S3: Thanks for having me.
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  S5: Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong. Our executive producer
• 13:58
  S5: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa
• 14:01
  S5: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow
• 14:06
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• 14:08
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