Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Leaning into discomfort with Nadia Ali | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 6 Episode 10

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Leaning into discomfort with Nadia Ali | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 6 Episode 10 · Motherhood Uncut

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Kate Kripke and welcome to the Motherhood Uncut Podcast.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: This podcast brings the reality of motherhood to the table for real, honest conversations.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: Here we laugh, we cry, we learn, we grow, we are awestruck, amazed, humbled, and validated.
0:17
SPEAKER_02: But most importantly, together we begin to live in a new way that allows us to recognize the immense role that our own health and well-being plays in the health and well-being of our kids.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: Together we recognize that everything we do to take care of our physical, psychological, social, and spiritual health is in service of our children.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: This season, we're diving deep into the role that the shoulds and shouldn'ts and rules and expectations play in our motherhood journey.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: Together, this season, we will learn to break those boundaries that hold us back from our greatest potential.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be hearing from the moms who have taken this risk, from experts who help in this journey, and from family members who, Lord help me, have important insight to share.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: So pull up a chair, my friend, make a cup of tea, pour a glass of wine, put on your walking shoes, turn up the volume in your car.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Let's do this together because nobody should mother alone.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Today I have the joy of talking with my friend Nadia Ali, mom, entrepreneur, educator, and advocate for health and racial equality about the importance of discomfort.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: I know, who wants to feel uncomfortable?
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Looking for and leaning into discomfort is not something that most of us do.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: In fact, the majority of you listening will have been raised in families where you were taught that discomfort was bad, wrong, or a sign of weakness.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: You may have been taught that the purpose of life is to achieve and maintain comfort at all times.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Now, today, Nadia and I turn this upside down.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: We discuss where discomfort can take us, how to tell the difference between discomfort that is dangerous and discomfort that is wise.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: We look at the role of discomfort in good parenting, and we address the skills necessary for moving through discomfort towards growth and potential for both all of us and our children.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: At this time of political instability and high stress in this country and in the world, you don't want to miss this conversation.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: We are so glad that you're here with us.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Hey listeners, there is literally nothing that I feel more inspired by than working with women who are ready and motivated to take control of their mental health and well-being in service of their kids.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: Because here's the thing: in my work, I get the opportunity to both watch the women who I work with feel better, and I also get to watch how their kids thrive along with them.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: If these conversations motivate you and if you're ready to shift out of the anxiety, guilt, and overwhelm that you feel and move back into confidence, calm, and connection, my 12-week program might be for you.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: If you want to learn more and talk with me about if it's a fit, go ahead and book a free clarity call with me.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: The link is in the show notes.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Hi, Nadia.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Hello.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you're here with me.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Actually, it's really funny because I had a thought before we started talking today and recording that you should just be sitting here with me in my office.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you're so right about that.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Instead, you're apparently in San Francisco with your beautiful backdrop on your Zoom screen and probably just not that far away.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, next time we're gonna have you here in person.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: That sounds good.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I am so glad you're here.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: And before we dive into our topic today, um, will you just tell our listeners who you are, what your life situation is?
3:59
SPEAKER_02: Are you a mom?
4:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know you are, but you can tell us about that, what you stand for on this planet.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: Just like give us a little bit of a feel for who Nadia Ali is.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, awesome.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: So my name is Nadia Ali.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm a mama to two kiddos, a high schooler, tenth grader daughter, and then a fourth grader elementary schooler um son.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I'm a mama wife founder and CEO of Idea Labs, which is a mission-driven consulting firm focusing on elevating change makers, organizations, and communities through leadership development, training, and organizational strategy.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm really passionate about creating kinder systems and organizations that reduce harm.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm also the daughter of Pakistani immigrants, Texas-born, Jersey-raised, and now Colorado-based.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that is so good.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: That is so good.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so a few things for our listeners.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: Our daughters have been friends since elementary school.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: They're now both high schoolers, and I don't think play and engage in the same circle social circle anymore, but man, they have a deep history.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: That's how we became friends, really, actually.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: You are also um a career-driven, a purpose-driven career woman who's also a mother.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: And that is really, so am I.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: And that is really a bit not all of our listeners would fall into that category.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Our listener, I think most of our listeners fall into the category of like high achieving, kind of more type A driven women.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Some of them may not currently be working.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: But this thing that you bring to our conversation today, this sort of character trait or dare I say identity, I don't mean to lock us in with that word, but you have you share, you are a thought leader, a creative, a problem solver.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: You are on this planet to do very purpose-driven work alongside being a mom.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: And I just want to name that for us because I think as you and I get into the juice of this topic, which we'll talk about in a moment, I want people to understand that about you because it's interesting when we really understand that we are multi-layered, multi-perspective people.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: We don't just see something one way, right?
6:41
SPEAKER_02: We let ourselves recognize there are many parts of us.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: We can see things in many different ways.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: I also can't help but just say, and I don't say I don't think I said this to you when we had coffee the other day, but I just thought of it again.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: The work you do, tell tell us the name of your business again.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Idea Labs.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Idea Labs.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: The work you do through Idea Labs, you just described it so beautifully to you, is actually a mirror of the work we want to do as mothers in our families, as leaders in our families, a kind of conscious leader role, right?
7:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: How do we lead from a conscious place?
7:19
SPEAKER_02: And that's amazing.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I just, you know, our our families are little organizations.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: So I love you.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: I love what you do.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy you're here.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, so today you and I are talking about the role of discomfort.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, what does it mean to be willing to be uncomfortable?
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: In life in general, in our relationships, in motherhood.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: And what in what way does our willingness to be uncomfortable and feel discomfort serve our overall mental health and well-being?
7:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: And maybe I'll start by just saying that if any of our listeners were raised in families or cultures or communities where they were taught that feeling uncomfortable meant that there was something bad happening, because quite frankly, there may have been.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: But they were taught to avoid discomfort or cover it up or distract themselves for it.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: And if they were taught that the purpose, the way they're supposed to should be feeling is comfortable.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: If our if you as a listener are coming to this conversation from that upbringing, you are not alone.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: You're not alone.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: So some of us may have been lucky enough to be raised in families where discomfort was um not used against us because we don't want that, but sort of uh um supported for the good of growth.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: But most people, many people were not.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: So, Nadia, why don't you kick us off?
8:58
SPEAKER_02: Just because I'm tired of hearing myself talk.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: When you think about this topic, where do you go first with it?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I love this question of like, what does it mean to be willing to be uncomfortable to serve our overall mental health and well-being?
9:14
SPEAKER_00: I love the question.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Where I go with discomfort is I've always been, I love being uncomfortable.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Like I think that it serves me in the way that it serves me, is that it pushes me to challenge myself and to grow in ways that, you know, I didn't imagine myself growing.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: I think that um getting uncomfortable and messy as a parent and having hard conversations every day with the kids, I think for me, given my identity as somebody, especially in Boulder, as somebody who's different in a lot of ways, um has been really eye-opening for my kids and like to talk about their identities in that way of like being kiddos who are different from, you know, Boulder is 80 or 90% white, right?
10:05
SPEAKER_00: So, what does that mean for you?
10:07
SPEAKER_00: How are you showing up and celebrating yourself every day in the spaces that you're in?
10:12
SPEAKER_00: And so those are conversations that are like typical dinner table conversations, you know, in our family of like, what happened today?
10:22
SPEAKER_00: What's coming up for you?
10:24
SPEAKER_00: How are you feeling?
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Like asking those questions that you're feeling nervous as a parent, like, oh my gosh, is my child okay?
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, did they did they feel like you know, harmed in any way, or were they fine?
10:37
SPEAKER_00: And like, did they have an interesting conversation with someone that did challenge norms and expectations?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: So for me, like it's a space that I'm in all the time.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of it is because of my background.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: So um before I ask my second question, I want you said I love being uncomfortable.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: I think most people are gonna hear that and be like, what the actual like who loves being uncomfortable?
11:10
SPEAKER_02: So I have two questions for you.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: I'd love for you to answer these.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: First of all, what does discomfort feel like to you in your body?
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: So I think it depends on the type of discomfort.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, when I say I love being uncomfortable, it's more around like I love having conversations that are a little like messy and uncomfortable, and like maybe topics that people don't like to typically talk about because that's when the vulnerability comes through.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's when like real deep connection happens.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's where I that's why where I love the discomfort of like having conversations about topics that people don't typically talk about, like mental health, for example.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, like so, just to summarize, what I hear you saying is I quote unquote love being uncomfortable because I see the purpose in it.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: I recognize that with discomfort comes amazing stuff, whether it's deep connections or exciting conversations, or someone said to me once, which I love, everything we want is on the other side of a hard conversation, whether it's with ourselves or someone else.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: So you quote unquote love being uncomfortable because you know those moments lead you to something awesome.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: But then let's go back to the actual experience in the moment of being and feeling uncomfortable.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: Like what does it feel like in your body when you are uncomfortable?
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so when I'm uncomfortable, and if this is like a situation where if I'm not feeling safe, or if there is, if somebody is, you know, treating me in a certain way, or if I'm encountering a situation where I'm not really sure like how to approach it, my hands feel, you know, start to get sweaty, right?
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Heart rate is elevated, and I'm trying to appear calm, but like in my body, all the things are happening.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: So I would say that's like what happens to me in situations where I'm not feeling uncomfortable.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: If it's a situation where I'm not sure what, you know, is going to happen, like if there's no certainty there or like you're scared.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: You're talking about fear.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Fear, yeah.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, like if I feel discomfort, it's typically from a space of fear, exactly.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Fear or like feeling unsafe.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: Do you know that there is research out there that describes that the physiological sensation of fear and anxiety and excitement is the same.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: Heart rate, rapid heart rate, sweaty palms, sort of that giddy, like ungrounded feeling, right?
13:44
SPEAKER_02: The physiological sensation is the same.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: The thoughts are different.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Something bad is about to happen.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm not safe, versus something exciting is about to happen.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited, right?
13:57
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like I just want to say that, remind you and me that, us that of that, and also our listeners is like what I want to say here is the feeling in our bodies is neither good nor bad.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Those those feelings are what happen when our brain releases hormones to our into our bodies when there is a real or perceived threat.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: A roller coaster, right?
14:23
SPEAKER_02: We would never get on a roller coaster if we really believed we were gonna die.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: But there's a perception of danger, but our body is responding the same way it would if something really bad was about to happen.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: So I guess why I guess why I'm saying this is like danger, bad thing happening, excitement, you know, kind of that thrill, good thing happening.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: Good and bad are subjective.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: They have to do with so many things, some of which we can't control, some of which you can control, but really we're talking about uncertainty and unpredictability.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: That experience is going to release hormones in our body that's gonna lead our body to feel something that we might call discomfort.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: We're not settled, we're not grounded, we're not breathing super deeply and slowly, we are something is activated inside of us, right?
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: And like just to like piggyback off of what you're sharing, I think some of, you know, as we, you know, as we're talking about the mental health of ourselves, like as moms, I think for me, like one of the things I've been doing the emotional and mental work around is to unlearn.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing a lot of unlearning work.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I've been doing a lot of unlearning work around thinking that I'm not good enough and that I have to do everything on my own.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: Like at times, like I'm feeling like I'm not a good enough mom or a daughter or a friend, like when different things happen, or you know, or someone says something, right?
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, so then I'm like thinking through how can I bring myself back to myself and know that I'm doing my best and that I'm human and that no one is perfect.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: So I think like when it comes to thinking that I need to do everything on my own, I'm really trying to connect more to the cultural values that I grew up with and really embody the notion of communicating more and like you know, I think we might be unraveling together the version of helpful discomfort and unhelpful discomfort.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the difference, not the version, the difference.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: So I will often say to myself and others, the opposite of fear is not safety, it's confidence.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: And by confidence, I mean I am okay inherently.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: Like I am an I can both feel scared and be okay.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: I can both feel uncertain and be okay.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: I can both even feel physical discomfort and be okay.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: So the kind of discomfort that we're talking about that serves us, that we want more of, that we want to promote with our kids, that we want to promote in our workplaces, that we want to promote for ourselves is discomfort with the confidence that I am okay.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: How do I know I'm okay?
17:18
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm a part of a larger community, because I'm not all alone, because I'm right, because there's greater purpose to this thing.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: But if we feel discomfort and we're telling ourselves, I'm not okay, I'm not okay, that is not a healthy or helpful kind of discomfort.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: That's negative self-talk, right?
17:35
SPEAKER_00: That's limiting beliefs.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, how do we model to our children that like we can have bad days and lean on our community and lean on our support systems, right?
17:48
SPEAKER_02: So let's go back to this example you gave.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: You, you, you're having, you know, you you you are, you know, you are a family in Boulder, Colorado that looks different, that has a different cultural background, that has a different history than 80% of the community in Boulder, right?
18:08
SPEAKER_02: And you're raising two children who also are having that experience.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: And you're saying that you are wanting to have real honest conversations with them about what it means to have brown skin in a community where most people have white skin.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: And there's lots of other differences as well, but let's just, that's the most visible one.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about that.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: And you're and you're saying, so I think part of what you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of what you're saying is, okay, your discomfort makes sense.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: Like that's a different approach to these conversations than saying, don't be uncomfortable, it's fine.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh, don't, don't be uncomfortable.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: You're just like all those other kids.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: Like what we try to talk our kids out of their discomfort because we think it's bad, versus, yeah, this can be really uncomfortable.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Can you speak to that?
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, talking about, you know, being somebody being for me, like being a minority woman who's like visibly Muslim and of South Asian heritage, right?
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Having brown skin, having a bicultural identity has been such a large part of my life, like just in terms of my my values, how I'm perceived in various spaces, like how I show up in my community, and then also just having that recognition around how many barriers like other minorities and minorities in general face and how important it is to like help to dismantle those systems of oppression to create more opportunities.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: And so I think the conversations that happen are like, okay, yes, and it's more of like, yes, and yes, this is happening to you.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And how can we channel our energy in a way that's serving ourselves and our community?
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you representing, you know, your community?
19:59
SPEAKER_00: How are you showing up?
20:00
SPEAKER_00: And how are you, you know being somebody who, if something doesn't land well with you, how are you advocating for yourself?
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, and how are you leaning on us to support you?
20:10
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's like for the most part, it's been smooth sailing, thankfully, right?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: But then there are situations where it's like, oh, this happened, or this person said this, or this teacher might have said this, and this didn't land well with me.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: How do we un how do we talk about that?
20:25
SPEAKER_00: I feel like my culture isn't being represented in the ways that I'm learning about it at home.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: How do we bridge that gap, right?
20:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of the conversations that are happening.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, well, let's advocate for ourselves.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, if we can't do it, then who's who else is who who's gonna do it, right?
20:41
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
20:43
SPEAKER_02: Advocating for ourselves can be really uncomfortable.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: It can be uncomfortable for you who's an adult, right?
20:51
SPEAKER_02: And for me who's an adult, just think about how uncomfortable it is for our children.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: So that's where I'm like, oh yeah, discomfort is real unpleasant and it can be really inconvenient, but it's not bad.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Or I should say it's not always bad.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: It's actually more times than not, it's going to be an opportunity if we lean into it and get curious about it to be empowered in some way.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think even like my kiddos' names are like different.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, that's like an everyday situation for them, where if there's like a substitute teacher and they're saying their name wrong, it's like, well, they they feel fine advocating for themselves, like, no, this is actually how it's pronounced.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: I feel like not every kid does that.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: They're just like, ah, whatever.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, they're like, ah, whatever, which maybe, you know, let's say if we really don't care and we're like, ah, I'm just not gonna fight that battle right now.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't feel important.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: I would say most kids or most humans would be like, Oh, I don't want to rock the boat.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna keep silent.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't wanna like, uh it feels too embarrassing to say something.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: It's about I feel uncomfortable, but I'm not willing in this moment to allow my discomfort to make sense.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Of course I'm uncomfortable.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Someone's pronouncing my name wrong.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: Or of course I'm uncomfortable.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: Someone just understood something, misunderstood something I said, or whatever it was.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Like we can say, well, I don't want to make that person feel bad.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to that what comes from that feels so uncomfortable.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: I can't tolerate the discomfort.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not going to do that thing.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: And then we get to ask ourselves, wow, if we believed, if we truly believed that our own discomfort and other people's discomfort wasn't a problem, how would we be moving through the world differently?
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just saying discomfort.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying pain.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: We don't want to harm people, but just simple discomfort.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: Like as far as I know, discomfort never hurt anyone, physically.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: I I wonder about that because I think I personally feel like a lot of the times, like even as parents, like if we're in conversation with one another, and you know, sometimes like we're just like, oh, I'm not gonna ask that question because I don't want to make this other person feel like I'm offending them in any way.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, how can we get curious in a way that is facilitating that healthy discomfort and challenging somebody, right?
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's where I I get stuck sometimes.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it brings me to another topic, which is uncomfortable, which is not knowing.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: Hey, quick little break here.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: If you like the things that you hear here on this podcast, I want to invite you to come find me over on Instagram at Kate Kripke, K-A-T-E, K-R-I-P-K-E.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: Really committed to providing free support to moms everywhere.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: And the two places that I do that are here and over there.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: So if you're not following me yet over there, come on over and take a moment and DM me and send me a message, introduce yourself.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I love nothing more than connecting with people over in that community.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: So I hope to see you there.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Not knowing the answer, not knowing something is a very uncomfortable place to be.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: If I'm willing to sit with my own discomfort and not know, I might ask from an honest, compassionate, self-responsibility place.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: I I remember um when I was doing a lot of more clinical traditional psychotherapy work, I was often working with women who had uh infant pregnancy neonatal losses, right?
24:55
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that they would say over and over again is that the hardest thing after a loss like that is that nobody will talk about it because nobody knows what to say.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: And the discomfort of saying the wrong thing or not knowing what to say pulls people back and creates a barrier because they can't tolerate that discomfort.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: So they pull away.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: And how hurtful that can feel for the other person who just wants to be in community.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: And how different it is, even if I don't know what to say.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: Like I honestly don't know what to say.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: If I were to say, let's say you are a mama who had had a miscarriage or whatever, and I'd say to you, Hey Nadia, I honestly don't know what to say right now, but I want you to know that I care deeply.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: That's everything.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: Everything.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: But I have to be willing to not know what to say in order to show.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: I have to sit with the discomfort.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: I have to own that discomfort and name it.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's empathy.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: That's empathy when you can say you're you're willing to sit with someone in that space.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: In that uncertainty.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: So, Nadia, let's shift for a minute and let's just get bigger picture for a moment.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: What I'm gonna put you on the spot.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: You can answer any way you want.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: But what are the things in motherhood in your role as mom?
26:28
SPEAKER_02: What are the experiences or the moments or the situations where you become the most physically, just like we talked about, like oof, my body, I feel the discomfort in my body, where you become the most uncomfortable?
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Hmm, okay.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: That is a really good question.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I think I am trying to think about there, I think when I become the most physically uncomfortable or like uncomfortable, is when my kids ask me a question that I'm not ready for.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Age appropriate to address in the most open way.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, could you give us an example?
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Um so okay.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: One of one really funny example, and and so, and then I had to think about how can I, you know, have this conversation in a way that helps a young person understand in an age-appropriate way.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: So it was all a lot on the spot.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if it made me physically uncomfortable, but a little uncomfortable.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: My son was like three.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: This is hilarious.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: So um, so basically, um, you know, I'm Muslim and I was fasting, it was Ramadan.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: And when um women are menstruating, they're excused from fasting.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Right?
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Your body's going through something, you're excused from fasting.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I remember, I mean, just being a three-year-old and observing, right?
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like I see dad is doing this thing, and mom and dad usually do this thing, and and my sister will participate, but I'm noticing my mom's not participating, right?
28:17
SPEAKER_00: So I remember him saying to me, Mama, you're not fasting.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Why aren't you fasting?
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And and I said, Oh, I like I wasn't expecting that question from a three-year-old, right?
28:29
SPEAKER_00: And so he's always been really observant at like such a young age.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, oh, mama is um going through something.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: And so mama's taking a break from fasting.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: What are you going through?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, my body is going through something right now.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, what is it?
28:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, like he kept digging, and it's like, I can't, like, I I'm just I always answer the question.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, well, mama's going through something called menstruation.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: What's that?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm like, how do I explain menstruation to a three-year-old boy?
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, okay, well, you know, mama's bleeding right now, and so because of that, my body's needs a break, and so that's why I'm not fasting.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: So that was satisfying for him.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, okay.
29:08
unknown: Okay.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Can we pause for just a moment?
29:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: I love this example because you're talking about being caught off guard.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: You're you're talking about an unpredictable, you were not predicting this.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: So this is a moment of unpredictability and a moment of uncertainty.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to say.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: And you feel the discomfort in your body.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: Now, you, Nadia, yeah, someone who understands on a level that many people may not, that discomfort is not bad.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: It's just part of life.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: So you're like, I'm gonna stay steady with this discomfort so I can see through the discomfort to get to the other side.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: Many parents would say something like, either lie or be like, don't worry about it, or because don't worry about it.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: Because, right?
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Where we're like, oh, too uncomfortable.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: I can't go here.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: And that's a really great example.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: And I think for our listeners, I would love for you to just think about this for a moment.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: What are the times where you're caught off guard by a question your kid asks?
30:15
SPEAKER_02: And really, it's almost always going to be about sex or body or I mean, whatever.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: There's things that we're like, oh my God, I'm not ready to talk about this.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: And how do you respond in that moment?
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And this is the kicker to the story.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I tell him, and and he was going to preschool and he wanted to take a book about Ramadan and share it with his class.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: So, like, I gave the teacher a book and she's like, Oh, we're gonna read this during story time.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: And then I guess after they had theirs, so then I went to do pickup and I go for pickup, and she's and his teacher was like, Oh, we got to do story time.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: And then we talked a little bit with the lover after about you know his um his like experience celebrating this, you know, this month with the family.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: And he said he he said, he goes, Oh, my mama is menstruating, so she's not fussing right now.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, like the kids pay no much, but the teacher was like, Well, in my time, you were being a preschool.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: I've never had a three-year-old share that with me.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing, it's amazing, but I think there's something like so gorgeous about this example because you're modeling a willingness to stay steady through discomfort.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: And I think we have this opportunity with our children all the time.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: There's something happening with one of my daughters now.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: I have two teenage daughters.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, without exposing the particular topic, what I will say is it is a request.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: My, my, I think because of all the work that I've done around things we're talking about, my own mental health.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: I have two teenage daughters who I hope they don't tell us everything.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: I do not think our children should tell us everything, but I will tell you that they come to us when it matters.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: And they fill us in, like they share a lot with us.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: And she is asking to do something for us to say yes to something that feels very adult, right?
32:15
SPEAKER_02: It's like, and yet she's 17, she's gonna be in college next year.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: And it's like I can catch myself feeling so uncomfortable about being the parent that says yes to that thing.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what should I do?
32:30
SPEAKER_02: So now we're back in the shoulds.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: What should I do?
32:32
SPEAKER_02: What should I say?
32:33
SPEAKER_02: And when I get caught in that discomfort, I want to just make it go away.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: I want to be like, let's just not, let's talk about this another time.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Like I keep deflecting.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: But when I show up and I sit in my own discomfort, like, whoo, why am I feeling uncomfortable?
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Like I feel my we're talking about it now.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: I can feel my belly like twisting.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, I feel uncomfortable because this feels like a very adult, my kid is growing up.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's one thing that's bringing up discomfort.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: Number two, I'm worried about being judged.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Does a good parent say yes to this or no to this?
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Which now takes me out of my integrity?
33:10
SPEAKER_02: And number three, I literally don't know what the right answer is.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: And it, you know, it has to do with going away for the weekend somewhere, right?
33:18
SPEAKER_02: It just makes me, it's like there's no right answer.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: But in order for me to get to the answer that's the right answer for my child and our family, I have to be willing to sit with this discomfort and see it through.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: And too often we're like, I don't uh for let's just put, I don't want to talk about it.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: Right?
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Comes up all the time in parenting.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: All the time.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, I have a question for you.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: How do you keep yourself resourced when things like this happen?
33:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great question.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's also the basis of all of my mental health work for myself.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I believe deeply that if we are not taking care of ourselves, we will not be resilient in these tricky moments.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: We are more likely to say, let's not talk about it, or to respond in ways that are not in service of the relationship or the child, right?
34:10
SPEAKER_02: And so I get enough sleep and I eat healthy and I move my body and I drink a lot of water and I have a meditation practice.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: I would also say that I cannot mother well without mom friends.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I rely on my women friends to come to them with a question like this and be like, not what would you do, not what should I do, but what might you do in this situation?
34:35
SPEAKER_02: Like I need to talk it out.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: That is a major piece for me.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: I think the other thing I do, I don't know if this is like if I can put this into a clear statement, but I go back to what we started about in the beginning.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: I truly trust and believe that my children are okay, inherently.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: I trust that our relationship is okay inherently.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: And when I answer this question and move through it, not from, oh my God, I don't want to make the wrong choice, because really there is no wrong choice.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: It's like whatever choice I make, something will come from it.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: If I say no and my child's disappointed, she will be okay.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: If I say yes and she goes off and does this thing and has all this freedom and, you know, makes a bad decision, I'm gonna trust that she's gonna be okay.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna go to catastrophic places.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: And that reminds me that this kind of discomfort doesn't have to be so problematic.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense, Nadia?
35:36
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that is so connected to mindset and how we cultivate our mindsets, and you're coming from a really beautiful mindset of like this is gonna be okay, like no matter what.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to that catastrophic place.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Like having the mindset of things will work themselves out and we will learn lessons through those things is such a healthy mindset.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just to be clear for our listeners, she will be okay, I will be okay, this will be okay, isn't defined by feel good, right?
36:13
SPEAKER_02: Again, remember as we said, I can both feel pain or discomfort or whatever and be okay at the same time.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: So this isn't, it's all gonna work out, it's all gonna be okay, everything's gonna be fine.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: That's not what I mean.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean literally, yeah.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Even if, you know, whatever, it's the wrong choice.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: And like I wish I hadn't made that choice or I regret making that choice, I can still be okay, she can still be okay because we're gonna have the resources and the capacity to be uncomfortable enough to move through it and get to the other side, right?
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Parenting thing is hard.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: We have so many decisions to make and so many responses to give, right?
36:55
SPEAKER_02: And it's lifelong.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: It's it's lifelong.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: I want to ask you another question because you do such important work in the world.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of what I talk about these days has to do with can we do it all?
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna reframe that question a little bit because I don't believe that asking the question, can I do it all is the right question because we can't do it all, right?
37:21
SPEAKER_02: We only have so many hands, so much energy, so much time.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: So we can't necessarily do it all.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: I'd like to reframe the question of can we be all of it?
37:31
SPEAKER_02: Can we be it all?
37:32
SPEAKER_02: Can we be successful entrepreneurs?
37:36
SPEAKER_02: Can we be people who make a difference in the world and be loving, compassionate, steady parents, right?
37:45
SPEAKER_02: And I would love to hear from you a little bit about the discomfort you need to move through in your life to actually be doing all the things that you're doing.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: And what does that look like for you?
38:00
SPEAKER_02: How do you hold yourself accountable?
38:03
SPEAKER_02: How does that feel?
38:05
SPEAKER_02: Big questions, you can take it wherever you want, but you are a reflection of someone who's doing both.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: No, I love this.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: Is a these are amazing questions.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Can we do it all?
38:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Can we be it all?
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I think it it that depends on how you define all for yourself.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: What does that mean for you?
38:29
SPEAKER_00: What does success mean for you?
38:31
SPEAKER_00: And so I think how I hold myself accountable is like, what are my priorities, what are my values, and how am I aligning my life and my daily life, my life in general to align with those values and those priorities that, you know, I have for myself, I have as a family.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that those are questions that I asked myself a lot, like as I was, you know, grow as we were growing our family, like, what do I want my life to look like?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: What do I need my daily life to look like?
39:02
SPEAKER_00: How do I want to be there for my family?
39:04
SPEAKER_00: How do I want to support my my kids?
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And that was a question I always had in the back of my mind.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: And then once I had my kids, I was like, I want to be somebody who is showing up for them at all the moments that they need support in.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: And so as they've grown older, that has evolved.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I have been, and I feel very blessed and grateful for this that I've been able to create a life where I am there for all of those moments of, you know, being there and taking them to school and picking them up from school.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: For me, the most juiciest conversations happen during pickup and drop-off, and they're very tender times, even if it's just 10 minutes.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's quality time that like I feel like that's like, I don't know, it's it's so juicy.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, wanting to be available and having dinner most nights of the week together as a family.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: So the you know, having those quality, that quality time like built into our family life has been really, really, really um beneficial.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of the discomfort piece, when I think about discomfort, you know, I I talked a little bit about, you know, unlearning the thinking that I'm not good enough and doing and then doing everything on my own.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: I think that's where I've I've realized that like I don't have to do everything on my own.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: I have a family, I have a I have amazing friends.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to do everything all the time.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to, you know, build your own village, right?
40:39
SPEAKER_00: It takes a village, everybody always says.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: So, what does that village look like for you, right?
40:43
SPEAKER_00: And for yourself to be resourced and to be able to show up.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: And and the for me, the discomfort is always in asking for help and like being okay with asking for help.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: And so, like giving myself grace.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's okay to ask for help.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to, I don't like even something as similar, I don't want to do the dishes.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, and now my kids are old enough.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, can you help me with the dishes?
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, and and it sounds like you're saying I'm uncomfortable, but I do it anyway because I know I can't do it all by myself.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: I I it it's not humanly possible to do the 500 million things to function as a human.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: So I have to do this thing for work.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Can I ask my husband, hey, can you drop the kids off?
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Because I have to be here.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: I can't be two places at once.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: And being okay with that because everybody's willing.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: It's not like I've I've never had a situation where it's like, no, I'm not gonna do this.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, absolutely.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's it sounds like what you're saying is being okay with having people help, but also being okay with the discomfort you feel in having people help.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and asking for that help.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm reminded when I hear you talk about values and priorities, is that one of the uncomfortable parts of that for many of us is that to to to have our non-negotiables.
42:10
SPEAKER_02: What are our family values?
42:11
SPEAKER_02: What do we stand for?
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, because we I'm making this up, I also have family dinner, so I'm using myself for a moment.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: If my value is connection and we do that at family dinner, that means I have to say no to having dinner out.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: Right?
42:33
SPEAKER_02: In order to say yes to something, we have to say no to something.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: And what I heard you say, you know, is like, well, for me, knowing my family's values and priorities and sticking to them is what brings success as a working entrepreneur who's also a mother.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: But we have to be willing to disappoint other people in order to be do that because we have to say no to other people in order to say yes to ourselves.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: That is uncomfortable.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: That's so uncomfortable.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: But I actually, so speaking of that, I actually made a few years ago, I made it my year of no.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm gonna practice saying no to things that I can't do because I just humanly can't do everything, and and that's okay.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: And uh and so I just kept saying no anytime.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Hey, do you want to participate on this committee or can you sit on this board or can you go to this meeting?
43:28
SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, no.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: And it felt it was so liberating.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: And so now, because I practiced, I'm very comfortable saying no and I feel okay with it.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Wow, I almost wish we could have a whole podcast on the year of saying no.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: This is something that I think many of us, and I'm just gonna put a kind of make an assumption here, but I think this is hard for many women.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
43:51
SPEAKER_02: We're taught to say yes, we're taught to be accommodating and to take care of others.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: And so saying no can feel selfish, it can feel mean.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: It can feel all it is hard.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: It can feel hard to do.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: And yet, of course, if we say yes to everything, we're saying yes to burnout.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: So can you just speak really quickly?
44:12
SPEAKER_02: And then I have one more question for you.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: And then we can just begin to wrap up.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: But I want to make sure I get these in.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: So your year of no.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: Your year of no.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: How did saying no in the beginning of the year of no feel different than saying no at the end?
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: No, great question.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: I remember the beginning of the year.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: It felt a little icky.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: Like I felt like I had to like process it with multiple people before I actually said the no.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: So it was like a lot of practice before actually delivering.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: But then by the end of the year, I felt confident.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: It was like moving from that space of fear to confidence, right?
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Like that you were talking about earlier.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: So then I felt like, you know what?
44:49
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: Like I can say no and nobody's going to be upset.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: And it the only like, and I'm going to be well resourced and I'm going to be able to show up as I need the the way I need to as a mom.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: Because that's always like, for me, that's like the biggest thing.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if you're not resourced yourself, then how can you be, you know, show up for others in the way that you want to and need to?
45:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, hallelujah to that.
45:12
SPEAKER_02: So, so essentially I hear you saying that um one of the things you recognized is nothing bad is happening when I say no.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: So now I have more practice saying no and trusting that it's all going to be okay.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Versus if I say no, something bad's gonna happen.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: You just said something else, though, that I think is really important, at least to my second question.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: But you said um, you said, and no one's gonna be upset.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
45:37
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people are upset.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: So, so maybe it's less no one's gonna be upset.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: I guess this is a question statement.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: Is it possible that it's less that no one will be upset?
45:48
SPEAKER_02: And more people might be upset, but that's okay.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: They're okay.
45:54
SPEAKER_02: They can take care of themselves.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't have to save them from their own upsetness.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: That yeah, you're right about that.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Because you're right, not everybody's gonna be happy.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Some people might be upset, but I don't take it personally.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, beautiful.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, that's what I think that for me, that's like the biggest thing.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Like all of the interactions.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if somebody is upset, like that's not about me.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's about them and their thing, and that's okay.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: That's so amazing.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: All right, one more question about being a powerhouse entrepreneur, doing amazing things in the world, and being a, you know, wife and mother and all of those things.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: You said something interesting when you talked about, okay, when it before when we were talking about having kids, we thought about like what do we want our life to look like and what do we want to do?
46:38
SPEAKER_02: I am a firm advocate for asking a very different question than that.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: And the question that I think we all need to be asking is how do I want to feel?
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Not what do I want to do and how do I want my life to look, but how do I want to feel?
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for saying that and naming that because that is something that I am obsessed with.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think how we feel is that's everything.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's like what drives everything else, I feel like.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: And so thank you for naming that and asking that.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I I think that when I was reflecting on all of those things, I want to feel joy.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: I want to feel honored, I wanted to feel ease, I wanted to feel connected, community.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: So, like, and then from that space, how do you then go into like that's right, manifesting and building what decisions, what choices will help me get there?
47:37
SPEAKER_02: That's very different.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, I say when I'm 20, I say I want a husband and two kids and a dog because I'm telling myself I'll feel a certain way if I have those things.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: I see a sweater in a store and I'm like, I want that sweater because I'm telling myself I will feel a certain way when I wear the sweater.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: It's never about the thing.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: And the problem is that when we go through life making choices based on those outside things, we don't, we very often don't feel the way we think we're going to feel.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: So starting from a place of feeling and values, it just has so much more purpose.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Your life has so much more meaning.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I think many women get stuck in, not everyone, of course, but many, is feeling having a family.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they were on a career path, maybe they weren't.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they always wanted kids, maybe they didn't always have kids, but having a family and then feeling a lack of purpose and then being feeling shame because they should feel purposeful because they have they're a mom, right?
48:52
SPEAKER_02: And again, not every mom feels that.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: So I don't, but in in my work, I come across women who know that they want to feel more purpose in their lives than they feel in the moment.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where this question about what does it look like to have purpose-driven work, paid or unpaid, whatever, doesn't matter, outside of motherhood, how that ultimately can serve our children.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm a mom and for whatever reason, we're not going to judge this.
49:29
SPEAKER_02: We just remember we honor feelings are never the problem.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: If for whatever reason I'm feeling purposeless and I ignore that feeling, the discomfort of that feeling, I will either move through my life feeling uh despondent and hopeless, which then will play a part in how I'm interacting with my kids.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
49:53
SPEAKER_02: Or I will need my children to make me feel purposeful.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: Also not helpful.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: So I think it's an interesting question if we ask ourselves as women and all of our listeners, Nadia and I invite you to ask yourself this.
50:08
SPEAKER_02: How do you want to feel in your life?
50:11
SPEAKER_02: And what choices can you make moving forward?
50:16
SPEAKER_02: Where can you say no more?
50:18
SPEAKER_02: What can you say no to?
50:19
SPEAKER_02: What can you say yes to consciously from that place?
50:23
SPEAKER_02: How do I want to feel in my life?
50:25
SPEAKER_02: What choices can you make that will get you closer to that feeling?
50:29
SPEAKER_02: To me, that's such an empowering question.
50:35
SPEAKER_02: And it's an uncomfortable one.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: Back to discomfort because we may need to lean into some places that are uncomfortable versus resisting them.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
50:47
SPEAKER_02: Nadia Ali, a couple questions about you.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: First of all, thank you for being here today.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: I love spending time with you.
50:56
SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that you have not had the chance to talk about or say today with respect to this topic that you think that you'd like to share before we wrap up?
51:04
SPEAKER_00: I think the the just the last thing I'll say connected to you know the the question that um that you should ask Kate of like how do how do you want to feel is also like what are your values, right?
51:16
SPEAKER_00: Like I invite uh all everyone to just think about what are your values and how are they connecting to your life right now?
51:23
SPEAKER_00: And if they're not, why aren't they?
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: So just a little bit more to think about.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what a brave, vulnerable, uncomfortable, but ultimately empowering question to ask.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:38
SPEAKER_02: And where can people find more of you?
51:40
SPEAKER_02: Where can people learn more about your work?
51:43
SPEAKER_02: Where are you on socials?
51:44
SPEAKER_02: How can people get more of this amazing human?
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: I uh on Instagram, um, you can find me um at idea labs in action.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: That's my handle.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: And then I also have uh food is like a big thing for me.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: I love cooking and food, and so I have another food insta with my hubby, and it's called at grocery to garnish.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: And um my uh business website is idealabsinaction.com.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if anybody's ever interested in digging deeper around leadership coaching or you have a retreat, strategic planning, any culture work, give me a shout.
52:28
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
52:29
SPEAKER_02: We'll put all of those in the show notes.
52:31
SPEAKER_02: And um, I just love spending time with you.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for this conversation.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: Hey listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, I would love to request that you share it with one mom out there who you know might benefit.
52:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, there are a lot of women who feel like they're mothering alone, and it takes all of our help to make sure that everyone feels like they have what they need to both feel successful and also feel supported.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: So please take a moment and just share it with one person.
53:04
SPEAKER_02: And if you feel inclined, go ahead and rate and review this podcast because the reality is that the more reviews we have and the higher ratings we have, the more this podcast is shared with other moms out there, which makes it more easy for them to find us.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: So thanks again for your help with this.
53:23
SPEAKER_02: And I'm assuming you do find this podcast helpful because you're still here at the end listening to this memo.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: So thanks for being here and share away.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: Sending love.