Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - the rest of Hartnell (Jon Arnold, David Gillespie Pratt & Frazer Gregory)

Transcript

Strictly Come Hamster - the rest of Hartnell (Jon Arnold, David Gillespie Pratt & Frazer Gregory) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  Where's your friend name? Can't see her anywhere.
• 0:03
  I. Don't know, surely she wouldn't
• 0:04
  have left her out of word to us. I shouldn't think so.
• 0:07
  She seemed a nice bird, friendly.
• 0:09
  We're not stuck up like you, Duchess.
• 0:11
  Don't call me Duchess. I'm worried about Dodo.
• 0:14
  I'm, I'm supposed to be looking after her, You know, showing
• 0:16
  her. Around you, that's enough it.
• 0:20
  Is our night for surprises. The doctor, Do you know him?
• 0:25
  He's Dodo's boss. He looks like that Discharge.
• 0:29
  I find you both here. Well, I hope Dodo and yourself
• 0:32
  have enjoyed yourself. Yes, I have one on the House
• 0:34
  Doctor. It isn't every day we get the
• 0:37
  over 20s in this place. Dig your fat gear.
• 0:42
  Fab gear. Who's your friend?
• 0:44
  He's not. Exactly a friend, I've just met
• 0:46
  him. His name is Ben Ben.
• 0:48
  The doctor, my boy, I don't see Dodo about.
• 0:51
  I'm afraid she's gone. There, she's gone.
• 0:53
  Gone where? Charles, she came.
• 0:54
  From onto the phone about half an hour ago.
• 0:56
  We haven't seen her since. There is one special human brain
• 1:03
  that Botan needs. The task of leading this brain
• 1:08
  here to serve Botan will be an extremely delicate matter.
• 1:14
  It has been arranged. Someone is coming.
• 1:18
  The 4th member call here to receive orders.
• 1:27
  The doctor's secretary. What are my instructions?
• 2:11
  None. The.
• 2:44
  Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster, and tonight, welcome to
• 2:50
  my Celestial toy Room. I'm John Arnold, and I have
• 2:53
  gathered with ME3 victims to put through six rings of torturous
• 3:01
  games along, you know, along the way.
• 3:04
  We're going to visit not only my celestial toy room.
• 3:06
  We're going to go to Antarctica in the 80s.
• 3:08
  We're going to go to Cornwall in the 18th century.
• 3:11
  We are going to go to groovy swinging 60s London.
• 3:15
  And along the way, we're going to find out there are more ways
• 3:18
  to write out your lead actor than there are moves in a
• 3:20
  trilogic game. So obviously the first thing any
• 3:27
  good toy room needs is an evil clan called Joey.
• 3:30
  So here is first up and unusually, Mr. Joe Ford, you.
• 3:35
  Could all sing more song now. You can sing your song.
• 3:38
  Tell you what, right, you ready everyone?
• 3:41
  So fill up your assholes and join the gang bang.
• 3:48
  Fraser's got a nice ass, but it's got a weird Tang, David's
• 3:53
  on a spit roast and howling up the moon, and John's playing
• 3:58
  Claudia in a stranger fuck fest. Thank you.
• 4:06
  That's that's a bit toned down from last time I heard it.
• 4:12
  You're welcome. Hello.
• 4:14
  I'm very happy to be here. A podcast of peace and
• 4:17
  prosperity, you might say. Not after that song.
• 4:23
  I'm. I'm lost to words.
• 4:25
  I am actually, for once, lost to words.
• 4:27
  Spit roast, Amy. Come on now.
• 4:29
  I'll save you the best position. Well, you'll have to.
• 4:32
  You'll have to let me know. I don't know about such things.
• 4:35
  I'm very naive and innocent. Whatever.
• 4:40
  You'll know who our guests. Are now So what we needed was a
• 4:44
  man of the revenue to hunt for the gold in all this this
• 4:49
  graveyard of ambition. It's the Dory end of Doctor
• 4:53
  Who's missing episode YouTube Mr. David Gillespie.
• 4:56
  Pratt, thank you very much. I'm quite glad I'm not either
• 4:59
  Stephen or Dodo in Toy Maker because I'm either going to be
• 5:02
  oh jolly watch fun thick or just an ass.
• 5:05
  So I'll happily take the revenue, man.
• 5:09
  He's he's at least got a. Bit of character haven't been in
• 5:13
  your, you know, with you in person in the past, David.
• 5:17
  You can happily just be an ass. I'm going to take some time to
• 5:25
  process. Is that a compliment or an
• 5:32
  insult? Absolutely.
• 5:36
  And last but not least, as it says on the second round story
• 5:39
  on the excellent blog Sky's Full of Diamonds, which I don't
• 5:43
  believe has ever been mentioned on Strictly.
• 5:44
  Before. We.
• 5:47
  Have had some Cowboys in here with these opinions.
• 5:50
  So the biggest cowboy of the lot?
• 5:54
  It's Mr. Fraser Gregory, here to defend his 67th favorite story.
• 6:02
  Oh Dee gob shite is required. Hi, everybody.
• 6:13
  Brazenly, you've come to the hottest podcast in town.
• 6:18
  Not after that song, I don't think I have.
• 6:22
  Yeah, one of you looks just like that, DJ.
• 6:24
  Quit moving. It's getting even worse.
• 6:31
  How? How does anyone keep you in
• 6:33
  order? Joke.
• 6:34
  No, rocket. Well, yeah, exactly.
• 6:35
  Should I even ask, given what we've gone through so far?
• 6:38
  Well, that's why we have fun, right?
• 6:40
  Come on now. Well, exactly.
• 6:41
  We're off the leash. Not, not, not the early days of
• 6:44
  Strictly, you know, where everything was regimented very
• 6:47
  well. Strictly.
• 6:51
  God I miss those episodes. Nowadays, anything goes exactly.
• 6:55
  Yeah, orgies, whatever, I don't care.
• 7:01
  So we're here to talk about what's been loosely termed
• 7:04
  Season 3 B. Or you can call it 4A, Billy's
• 7:08
  farewell tour, whatever you like.
• 7:10
  It's a It's the rag bag of episodes at the end of the heart
• 7:13
  Lira. I'm going to call it Rod's
• 7:16
  bollocks choice. Oh.
• 7:18
  I was going to call it the rest of Hartnell, you know, like in
• 7:21
  the actual episode, because it gets confused enough always, you
• 7:24
  know? The rest of the end of Billy.
• 7:28
  The end of Billy. Yes, Billy's end.
• 7:31
  Hartneil's teal end. Stop it.
• 7:35
  You all right? So before we hear the views of
• 7:40
  these this mad bunch who are called the Strictly listeners
• 7:44
  who have left an insane number of comments here, I guess we
• 7:48
  better find oh. No.
• 7:53
  How do you kind of find this arse end of harbour?
• 7:58
  You froze there for a second, we had a dramatic pause from you
• 8:03
  and then just came back in with arse end.
• 8:06
  Of. You better say that little bit
• 8:09
  again, John. I'll just cut that bit out.
• 8:12
  So how do you find this arse end of Hartnell?
• 8:15
  How do I find Hartnell's arse end?
• 8:17
  Well, there's a loaded question, isn't it?
• 8:20
  Well, I was, I was fortunate to be on the the front end of
• 8:24
  Hartnall when we discussed Series 3A.
• 8:27
  And I've went back and reminded myself because that was a long
• 8:32
  time ago now. I've run back and reminded
• 8:33
  myself what I said then. And the overall feeling was this
• 8:37
  is a fascinating period of, of Doctor Who's history.
• 8:41
  We have got more changes going on behind the scenes than we
• 8:44
  have going on the scenes. You know, people behind the
• 8:46
  scenes are probably getting better departures than the ones
• 8:48
  on the on the screen. We've had the John Wiles and
• 8:53
  Donald Tosh era. We are now coming into the inner
• 8:56
  Lloyd and Jerry Davis era. And there is the previous chunk,
• 9:02
  I think I called it back then was noticeable by there was a
• 9:05
  definite feel that that, oh, I've just said the names as
• 9:12
  well. Why am I so terrible with names?
• 9:15
  Lloyd Davis, Lambert. Wales, Wales and Tosh had a had
• 9:19
  a clear vision for what they want the Doctor Who and I think
• 9:22
  Lloyd and Davis do as well. But the the feeling I get from
• 9:25
  this, well certainly the first 4 episodes, the back end of season
• 9:29
  3. Is it's a bit.
• 9:31
  Pretty amateur. It's pretty much we know what
• 9:34
  we're doing, but we just don't really know how to do it
• 9:36
  properly. It picks up considerably when
• 9:39
  you go into Season 4 and have the first couple of episodes
• 9:43
  there, but it's it's just really speaks to the chaos that's going
• 9:48
  on behind the scenes that we actually get, you know, anything
• 9:53
  that's remotely decent coming out of this back end.
• 9:57
  I was, it was really interesting.
• 9:59
  I went and checked where these stories fall in the public's
• 10:05
  perception, because obviously we've got some here which have
• 10:08
  went up and down pretty much simultaneously.
• 10:11
  So I was I was curious to see where these one of stories lay
• 10:16
  in the latest Doctor Who magazine pool.
• 10:18
  You know whether did first Doctor in the ranked them and
• 10:21
  then the 2nd Doctor in the ranked them out of the bottom 9
• 10:25
  right rated stories of the First Doctor.
• 10:28
  We are going to talk about four of those.
• 10:31
  Yeah, but that's why this podcast exists, literally
• 10:35
  because of those poles, to turn them upside down by our
• 10:39
  champions of the downed. Like I thought they were upside
• 10:42
  down to start with. When they started putting things
• 10:43
  like the Red Planet bottom and they started putting the
• 10:45
  Dominators bottom, it was clearly upside down.
• 10:48
  This tail end of the of this period of Hartnall is to
• 10:51
  celebrate. This sort of stuff is why we're
• 10:54
  here. Yeah, we will celebrate, but I
• 10:57
  think there is some, there's, there's some less than
• 11:00
  successful stuff which we're going to discuss tonight, put it
• 11:02
  that way. That's that's promising, Fraser
• 11:08
  saying something that successful.
• 11:09
  It has to be bad, doesn't it? No.
• 11:12
  It has to be good. It has.
• 11:14
  To be good. Saying it's bad?
• 11:15
  Yes. That is generally how people
• 11:18
  find things. Boy, we'll see.
• 11:21
  So. David, how do you how do you
• 11:23
  find this little mini era? I'm just going to get my notes
• 11:27
  up and just be on this about 6 pages of them.
• 11:31
  And that's before we start getting into the individual
• 11:33
  story comments. So, so just bear in mind, sorry,
• 11:37
  I mean 7 bullet points, not 7 pages because you know, not I
• 11:40
  don't want to take us to like, you know, 1:00 in the morning.
• 11:43
  This is a weird batch. I mean, I love the heart and the
• 11:46
  era all the way through. I think it's one of my comfort
• 11:49
  eras. I like going back to it.
• 11:52
  It's missing episodes, which is obviously, you know, my Forte.
• 11:55
  But if you know when we've done strictly in the past and we
• 11:59
  usually get told off when you've got your really obvious winners
• 12:01
  or you could have the the big hitters, the things that always
• 12:03
  tend to do well in polls, there's not many of those in
• 12:09
  this sort of selection. So I'm finding it really hard to
• 12:11
  kind of see how this is going to pan out because I don't think
• 12:14
  there's an obvious winner. There's a couple that I don't
• 12:17
  think have got a hope in hell of winning, but who knows?
• 12:20
  This is strictly Stranger Things have happened.
• 12:24
  There is a lot going on. Screen changes when we start in
• 12:28
  Toymaker and where we end in 10th Planet.
• 12:30
  You know, it's different cast, different series practically.
• 12:33
  So this is a period of change and just almost constant
• 12:36
  rebooting of the series. So you know, you've got
• 12:40
  characters departing, characters leaving, how many stories that
• 12:42
  we've got that actually have some sort of change going on in
• 12:45
  terms of the line up behind the scenes.
• 12:47
  It's just slightly chaotic and it's some of that does affect
• 12:52
  what we get on the screen as well.
• 12:53
  And I can't disagree with Fraser's point that it it it's
• 12:57
  very mixed, but there's still a lot to like.
• 13:01
  We get rid of Dodo, we get rid of Stephen, thank God.
• 13:05
  And then Polly bring a bit of life.
• 13:07
  And I actually think I was reading through some of the
• 13:09
  comments and we'll come to it. It's like people say, Oh,
• 13:12
  Hartnell's not, you know, is he sidelined or is he?
• 13:15
  I think when they bother to give him something to do, Hartnell is
• 13:18
  brilliant, he always is. And so this is his life, you
• 13:22
  know, it may be his back end, but it's a glorious one for him.
• 13:27
  It's practically sparkling. There we have it.
• 13:33
  The stars, the sun shines egg. Hartnell's ours, frankly,
• 13:37
  always. Which I can I can I can do.
• 13:39
  Joe yes, there's one that likes a.
• 13:42
  Sparkly back end. Especially from William
• 13:45
  Hartnell, one of the great joys of being with my mark is that
• 13:51
  he's taught me to love things that are really terrible.
• 13:55
  Things such as the chase and the Android invasion and
• 13:58
  battlefield, You know, true dogs of Doctor Who I just think are
• 14:01
  absolutely glorious now. And my love affair with Dodo
• 14:06
  Chaplet knows no bounds these days.
• 14:09
  I mean, I just love that character so much and so.
• 14:13
  So enthusiastic. Oh my God, it's just like male,
• 14:16
  you know, 0 back story, total enthusiasm.
• 14:21
  Yeah. I just think she's delightful.
• 14:22
  And I love the new Dodo as well from Big Finish, so I think
• 14:25
  she's helped too. I think two of the best directed
• 14:30
  William Hartnell stories are in this batch.
• 14:32
  I think one of William Hartnell's best performances is
• 14:36
  in this batch. I think that they're trying new
• 14:40
  things until the end. I think this is a really strong
• 14:44
  run of stories. I don't think this is running
• 14:46
  out of steams of what is it you said to raise a mediocre
• 14:48
  average. I can't remember what words you
• 14:50
  used. I don't think I don't see it at
• 14:52
  all. I think there's style, I think
• 14:54
  there's wits and I think there's innovation.
• 14:58
  All three of those things in the tail end of Arnold, I think, and
• 15:02
  he gets far more to do than people give him credit for and
• 15:05
  is in no way on his last legs. I think this is a great run of
• 15:09
  stories. Nice.
• 15:13
  As for me, I've I've kind of been ambivalent this back this
• 15:17
  the the arse end of Hartwell, not because I'm straight, but
• 15:20
  because it's it's just. Not because.
• 15:24
  You're straight, did you say? Are you not straight then?
• 15:28
  I've never said that. I'm.
• 15:30
  I'll tell you later. Oh.
• 15:31
  John, there's no fresh yet. There you go.
• 15:34
  Yeah, well, how many husbands have you got?
• 15:36
  Come on, I'll be. There's always room for more.
• 15:42
  I think it's where Doctor Who kind of loses the strangeness of
• 15:46
  the first two seasons where you're where they just, you
• 15:49
  didn't know what you're getting from week to week.
• 15:50
  You'd go to history, you go to Vortis and try stories.
• 15:54
  Absolutely no humans in it whatsoever outside the regular
• 15:57
  cast. You could, you know, have 12
• 16:00
  episode Daleks or everything. You know, they didn't know what
• 16:04
  the limits were of Doctor Who. They they would, you know, look
• 16:07
  at a budget and go whatever. We can still do it with this
• 16:11
  one. I kind of get the feel it's it's
• 16:13
  Doctor Who needs to kind of define itself to survive.
• 16:16
  And I think this is the period it does that, you know, you've
• 16:20
  got this predominance at all four episode stories.
• 16:23
  It was kind of a little bit regimented.
• 16:27
  So it's maybe a little bit less interesting, but it's it's a new
• 16:31
  way of thinking about who's, you know, it's, it's not what David
• 16:34
  Whitaker, Donald Tosh, Dennis Spoon would try with it, but it
• 16:40
  does kind of let Doctor Who survive as much as getting the
• 16:47
  right choice of lead actor next does.
• 16:49
  So it's, it's fascinating, but it's it's kind of this little
• 16:53
  period of being a bit, a little bit ambivalent about not
• 16:55
  particularly for the stories themselves.
• 16:59
  I will jump in there and contradict something you've just
• 17:01
  said, John, in terms of it being interesting.
• 17:03
  I think this is a very interesting season.
• 17:07
  The stories that we're getting, you know, when you know what's
• 17:11
  going on behind the scenes, when you know who was actually
• 17:14
  commissioned the stories as opposed to who was actually
• 17:16
  writing them and producing them and so on and so forth.
• 17:19
  And when you can, you know, join those dots and see, you know,
• 17:22
  where things are going, you know where the direction of the show
• 17:26
  is going to go in the future, I think it makes it very
• 17:28
  interesting. I think I said in three, it's a
• 17:31
  fascinating year of the show and that doesn't tail off for me
• 17:34
  into this. You know, I, I love Doctor Who.
• 17:36
  I wouldn't be sitting here at, you know, 8:00 at night ready to
• 17:39
  stay up till 1:00 in the morning talking about Doctor Who if I
• 17:42
  didn't love it. I just love some more than
• 17:44
  others, which is just where I'm coming from tonight.
• 17:49
  I think it's There's probably one story here which I wouldn't
• 17:52
  describe as interesting, but the rest certainly are for me.
• 17:56
  So 1:00 So you're looking for an early finish then for, is that
• 17:59
  right? I did see I was going to be
• 18:00
  quick. For him, yes, that is an early
• 18:02
  finishes. So we know where we stand, but
• 18:07
  where do the listeners stand? Wow, those people.
• 18:10
  Yeah, those, they're just saying.
• 18:14
  Can I say please, people? Yeah.
• 18:16
  We don't need a dissertation. All right?
• 18:19
  OK. We don't need 15 tweets.
• 18:21
  Just one or two will do. I love it.
• 18:23
  Appreciate your part. We have Fraser for this.
• 18:27
  I know, right? I know you people are
• 18:31
  enthusiastic, but if you could condense your thoughts
• 18:34
  otherwise, you know Fraser has been doing a lot of work today
• 18:37
  to try and pull them into order. Thank you, Fraser.
• 18:40
  God bless him. So yes, if if Fraser David, I
• 18:46
  don't know which he wants to go first, but if you want to take
• 18:49
  it from the top, I think there's some.
• 18:52
  Well, I don't want to thank for the quote you that first
• 18:54
  comment. Oh, Eddie, yes.
• 18:57
  So this will be the best comment of the night I think.
• 18:59
  Yeah, the first comment comes from a chap called Eddie, who I
• 19:05
  think one of us might know who says quite a few good stories
• 19:10
  here. That opinion may change if
• 19:11
  someone re watches in prep for this.
• 19:15
  Aside smugglers and savages, this is probably his best set of
• 19:18
  stormies. For those of you who haven't
• 19:21
  caught up yet, Eddie is John's son Eddie up?
• 19:27
  Next we have mad we have we have mad Paddington, who is not my
• 19:31
  son because I haven't got one. This is a mixed set of a mixed
• 19:35
  closing set of stories for Doctor Who.
• 19:37
  I'd fall it. I'm going to start that again
• 19:38
  because I completely. Buggle that up.
• 19:41
  A mixer. It's the first one.
• 19:47
  We're not editing this out either.
• 19:49
  Oh no, leave it. Leave it all in a mixed closing
• 19:52
  set of stories for a doctor I had fallen in love with in a way
• 19:55
  I never expected after watching his run consecutively.
• 19:58
  It's such a shame he wasn't well enough to be in to be properly
• 20:01
  in half of these. Well, I mean, everybody, please,
• 20:06
  will you give me a big, big. Big.
• 20:10
  Me an orange. Orange.
• 20:13
  Orange. Orange and give me a because
• 20:16
  this is a penultimate season of strictly now there's going to be
• 20:20
  very few shout outs for this man soon.
• 20:22
  Michael. Michael.
• 20:24
  Michael. Oh.
• 20:27
  Big Orange Michael says Hartnell's final stretch.
• 20:31
  I defy you to find a more creatively diverse stretch of
• 20:34
  stories. You can see Doctor Who tried to
• 20:36
  figure out what it was, what it is, and what it will be heading
• 20:39
  forward. Some big swings, some big
• 20:42
  misses, but when it's a hit it really works.
• 20:48
  I've got Chris Curtis here, I've got the long one, OK, And he
• 20:53
  thinks, I think this series always gets a battering.
• 20:56
  But I always feel the stories are doing some bold and
• 20:59
  interesting things. The problem is the main cars and
• 21:02
  how they're written. We have disappearing Hartnell
• 21:05
  and suddenly companions being the Doctor.
• 21:08
  The instability of the Doctor is the problem.
• 21:10
  More Hartnell and these would be better.
• 21:12
  The fact they all have a plot. The bugs to hide the Doctor
• 21:14
  became so repetitive. Stephen and Dodo cannot hold the
• 21:19
  show together. Outrageous.
• 21:21
  Chris Curtis. Outrageous.
• 21:24
  Anyone comes for Dodo tonight, I'm going to have you.
• 21:28
  Oh dear, Oh dear. Yeah, I'll either shoot you in
• 21:30
  the face or keep you spice eyes. One or the other.
• 21:36
  Oh, that's. What I meant, Yeah, sorry.
• 21:42
  We'll move quickly on then with Conor McBride, who says half a
• 21:45
  season of guttering before the snuffing of the candle.
• 21:48
  But there are some sparkly moments held strong by stellar
• 21:51
  companions. It's pleasing to see how wide a
• 21:53
  variety can be managed on the cheap.
• 21:55
  Lean with a relay button and hand it on.
• 21:57
  Great work, rest now. Chris Winwood being nice and
• 22:02
  concise. Toy Maker is a mess.
• 22:04
  Toy Maker is a mess. But the rest are brilliant.
• 22:07
  The show was on a roll at that point.
• 22:09
  It's been a long day. The wine.
• 22:11
  Did you have David? It's.
• 22:14
  Just the one. We'll get another one.
• 22:16
  It might. It might take you on the other
• 22:18
  side. Conor McBride put rest now at
• 22:20
  the end. Was anyone else tempted to go?
• 22:22
  My warrior? No, that's me, Edward Gillooly,
• 22:30
  who I think has the best name in all of dogs.
• 22:32
  Who found them Mr. Gillooly? Hello.
• 22:34
  A mixed bag in terms of quality, but the writers are still coming
• 22:37
  up with a brilliant array of different ideas.
• 22:42
  OK, I've got Paul Smiley. Is it Paul Smiley or is it Paul
• 22:45
  Smiley just SM1I? Don't actually know, you know,
• 22:48
  is there a bit of one of these? I do apologise if I've mangled
• 22:52
  your surname then Paul. Blame whoever put this terrible
• 22:55
  PDF together, OK? Another strong run of stories
• 23:01
  that bring the Hartnell either to an end.
• 23:03
  The Gunfighters, his sublime, toy maker, bonkers, Savages,
• 23:07
  underrated War Machines, magnificent.
• 23:09
  Hartnell giving one of his best performances.
• 23:12
  Smugglers Rollking, good historical and 10th Planet, if
• 23:15
  nothing else brings us their debut of the Cybermen.
• 23:19
  The design and voice is brilliant.
• 23:20
  Shame the Hartnell's illa missed the whole of Part 3.
• 23:26
  I now have someone who's usually Joe's nemesis, but I think he's
• 23:30
  my nemesis tonight because he's given us an essay.
• 23:32
  So if anyone wants a a quick piss break, now is the time to
• 23:34
  go for it. It's Michael Storm.
• 23:37
  He. Was one of those people that
• 23:38
  gave 15 tweets. Fraser wasn't.
• 23:40
  He yes, he was. Mark 2 is enough, 2 is enough.
• 23:44
  We've separated them out, we've spread them out across the rest
• 23:47
  of the stories. But his overall view is that,
• 23:49
  despite common opinion, Hartnell is by no means on its last legs
• 23:52
  at the stage. Then the episodes without him
• 23:54
  suffer from his absence. We have an eclectic mix of
• 23:57
  stories, even if they don't always live up to their
• 24:00
  potential. Here we begin to see the
• 24:02
  template of who to come with the phase out of historical's more
• 24:06
  action, adventure style sci-fi and increased location work.
• 24:09
  Hartnell may not have had the final story he deserved.
• 24:12
  He's rather passive, but the run up is very strong.
• 24:15
  The 1st Doctor Ben and Polly line up is.
• 24:18
  Good. Pity it was short.
• 24:21
  And save. How could he possibly say the
• 24:23
  heart always passive in this run of stories?
• 24:27
  How dare you call it human progressor passive, right?
• 24:35
  I've got 12 words. Here I go to see if I can do it.
• 24:38
  In one go. Come on, David.
• 24:39
  We're ruined you. Can do that.
• 24:42
  Let's go, David. Let's go.
• 24:44
  No. This is Matt Lee Newby.
• 24:46
  The variety of season 3 is what makes me love it so much.
• 24:52
  Well done. I'm not pissed, you know.
• 24:57
  First in the Celestial Dolls age tonight.
• 24:59
  I feel what he's doing is actually he's doing a very good
• 25:01
  impression of William Hardall sort of getting the scripts
• 25:03
  wrong. That's what he's doing.
• 25:05
  I'm good. You're getting the gist of it.
• 25:06
  You're getting the gist of it. The essence is there.
• 25:11
  It's fun. David Fluffs, that's all we've
• 25:14
  got. David.
• 25:15
  Fluffs, yeah. Oh God.
• 25:19
  Well, with that, I guess in what's probably a record less
• 25:23
  than half an hour, we're going to move to the stories, hey.
• 25:28
  So. I mean Fraser's looking keen and
• 25:32
  eager to to get on with Defenders favorite.
• 25:35
  So, David, you have your pick of the six.
• 25:42
  The pick of the crop, David. Oh, you see, I'm a big 60s fan.
• 25:47
  Big hard fan. You know, I love 60s almost
• 25:52
  unconditionally, but there are exceptions.
• 25:59
  And yes, I noticed that I'm going to start with Celestial
• 26:04
  Toy maker. I'm going to put forward that
• 26:06
  for me, this is possibly one of the weakest stories of the 60s
• 26:10
  and I want to put this in the bin.
• 26:13
  And it's a bit obvious because Toy Maker is one of those
• 26:16
  stories that has had a complete about face in terms of public
• 26:20
  fan opinion. Because when I came to fandom in
• 26:22
  the early 90s, this was the lost classic.
• 26:26
  This was The Crystal Maze in space, isn't it?
• 26:34
  Fuck the adventure game in space, wouldn't you say?
• 26:37
  The only thing this hasn't common with The Crystal Maze is
• 26:40
  that you end up shouting at the screen at how thick the people.
• 26:43
  Are I mean? Dodo going around going what
• 26:48
  John what jolly fun what's jolly fun?
• 26:50
  And then you've got Stephen being a pig and shouting at her
• 26:53
  for 4 episodes. I OK, so let's let's be serious
• 26:58
  now. OK, so why 3 reasons.
• 27:01
  We talk about the production problems, all the stuff going on
• 27:03
  behind the scenes. And this is one of the stories a
• 27:04
  bit like Underworld, like some of those where the production
• 27:07
  problems translate to the final product and it is it
• 27:11
  unavoidable. So for some context, this I
• 27:15
  think had got 3 total rewrites in the process.
• 27:19
  So there was Brian Hales came and did his version.
• 27:22
  Then Donald Toshi came and rewrote it, did his version and
• 27:24
  then they had to take some characters out and Jerry Davis
• 27:28
  came in and did his version. And I think every single
• 27:31
  iteration we don't know what was in the Brian Hales version or
• 27:35
  the Donald Tosh version, although there are videos on
• 27:37
  YouTube that have done all the archaeology trying to unpick
• 27:39
  what the original story would have been like.
• 27:41
  There were no clowns and no playing cards.
• 27:44
  There was 2 characters called George and Margaret that they
• 27:46
  borrowed from another. It's all very convoluted and
• 27:49
  everything when they had to take those characters out and put in
• 27:53
  some ciphers, but they'd already paid 2 actors to appear in three
• 27:56
  episodes. So we kind of have.
• 27:57
  They have to keep turning up each week, but they have to have
• 27:59
  new characters each time. It's a bit of a mess and all
• 28:03
  that rewriting and everything just takes out what should be
• 28:06
  this dark and surreal story, and it just becomes a series of
• 28:12
  slightly tedious party games and it's not good for Dodo, and I'm
• 28:18
  sorry. The thing is, I believe I
• 28:20
  understand this wasn't written for Dodo.
• 28:21
  This was written for Anne Chaplain, who was a what, 16th
• 28:25
  century French maid. So obviously she's a bit new to
• 28:29
  all this. And so every, you know, light
• 28:31
  switches would have been fascinating for her.
• 28:34
  It's not Dodo's finest hour. She's she's fucking stupid in
• 28:38
  this, isn't she? She is so gullible.
• 28:41
  Every single week she's like, oh, what fun.
• 28:43
  Oh, they're so, they're so real, Stephen.
• 28:45
  Oh, they're trying to kill us. What a surprise.
• 28:48
  The worst one, Dave is like when she goes, oh, what a lovely
• 28:51
  clown. Oh, he's so funny.
• 28:52
  Oh, I hate you. You are a bad clown, you know.
• 28:56
  Oh. Please.
• 28:58
  Oh God, no. It it's the bit with Cyril that
• 29:00
  always gets me. It's.
• 29:04
  Like he's really bleeding. Oh, it's so terrifying.
• 29:07
  Have you not learned anything though?
• 29:10
  It just doesn't hang together. There's there's the script
• 29:13
  doesn't exactly sparkle with wit.
• 29:15
  There's not much menace going on.
• 29:18
  It's just really flat. And I think it's the example of
• 29:21
  we've got the script into it, it'll do.
• 29:24
  And it it just doesn't really work.
• 29:27
  And there's even points, there's still fragments of older
• 29:31
  versions in the final script. So you go to Episode 4 and Dodo
• 29:35
  hands the sweets to the doctor and it's like, Cyril gave me
• 29:38
  these before the race game. I was like, what race game you
• 29:42
  played? Tardish Hopscotch.
• 29:43
  There wasn't a race. So it's like, is that someone
• 29:46
  forgotten to take a line out of the script?
• 29:49
  Probably. So it's just messy, which Brit
• 29:53
  kind of then connects to to the second thing, which is everyone
• 29:59
  held it as this lost classic until the Hartnell years, at
• 30:02
  least for, you know, people who didn't have bootlegs.
• 30:06
  You Fast forward, you Fast forward through pie, a Fast
• 30:07
  forward through the crusade. You know, who wants to watch any
• 30:09
  of that boring historical and you're like, I've been looking
• 30:12
  forward to this. And then the final Test comes on
• 30:17
  and. What a.
• 30:19
  Flat, lifeless piece of Doctor Who.
• 30:22
  I've, I think I've ever seen, this is meant to be menacing.
• 30:26
  This meant to be atmosphere. This is meant to be the doctor
• 30:29
  versus basically a God. You know, the, the final games
• 30:32
  come into a climax and what do we get is that would pop the
• 30:35
  fact that playing dice, which they can't be bothered to show
• 30:39
  on screen, so they have to have a dice indicator.
• 30:40
  So there's a lot of shots of people bending over, no jokes,
• 30:43
  please, and saying, oh, a 50, a six for like the first, what, 15
• 30:48
  minutes? It just goes on.
• 30:50
  There's no tension in those scenes at all.
• 30:52
  It's like Bill Sellers just comes along and goes.
• 30:55
  It'll do. There are flickers of tension in
• 30:59
  some of the early episodes, but looking at that final one, it's
• 31:02
  like either he's just given up by the end, or we're going to
• 31:06
  have three missing episodes where it's just really flaccid,
• 31:09
  flat, uninspiring direction. There's just no atmosphere to
• 31:13
  this at all. And this is a script, as much as
• 31:15
  I was just being mean about the script, that a good director
• 31:18
  will go, right, let's you know, let's script, let's do something
• 31:20
  interesting with it. Let's do some interesting
• 31:22
  visuals. Apart from maybe one or two
• 31:24
  effect shots or camera, but camera tricks, there's not an
• 31:28
  interesting shot in Episode 4. I cannot, I mean, I'm waiting to
• 31:33
  be corrected, but I can't think of anything in there that's
• 31:35
  visually interesting. Those colour photographs that
• 31:38
  were in like the 60s and everything made you think you
• 31:41
  were going to get something colourful.
• 31:42
  It's like, OK, it's black and white buddies devoid of any sort
• 31:46
  of expense. Have you forgotten the electric
• 31:48
  between those squares and you'll be killed.
• 31:53
  Absolutely terrifying. You've probably watched the
• 31:58
  animation, which actually does give it a bit of a boost.
• 32:00
  And I know some people say, oh, the animation makes it, but I'm
• 32:03
  judging this based upon as much as the original as possible
• 32:06
  because the animation does make it more bearable.
• 32:09
  It does actually paper over the cracks a little bit.
• 32:13
  My final reason, and I said about watching one of the worst
• 32:17
  episodes of the 60s and that is the dancing floor because for
• 32:21
  the 1st 15 minutes, especially if you're watching a Recon and I
• 32:25
  did when I first got the loose cannon gardener so many years
• 32:28
  ago, 1st 15 minutes is basically lots of people just shouting in
• 32:32
  a kitchen non-stop with like again, no tension or anything
• 32:37
  like that. It's Jesus Christ, what in
• 32:41
  terminable thing? Try listening to the narrated
• 32:44
  soundtrack. It's even worse.
• 32:46
  At least the animation sort of makes that episode bearable.
• 32:49
  It's only in the last five minutes when they've got the
• 32:51
  dance sequence that it's just a little bit.
• 32:53
  That's probably the only bit of tension in the whole story, but
• 32:56
  I just find that third episode. Horrifically.
• 33:00
  Boring. And so Sod's law, with these
• 33:04
  rumours of recovered episodes and everything, that's going to
• 33:06
  be the one that we're going to get.
• 33:11
  And you can all tell me how wrong I am when it turns out to
• 33:13
  be some directorial masterpiece, so.
• 33:16
  We will. Oh, don't worry, I expect it.
• 33:19
  So yeah, I mean, it's a bit obvious.
• 33:21
  I know total milking now comes in for a bit of a kicking and
• 33:25
  it's really dropped down in people's opinions.
• 33:27
  I'm fully expecting, you know, it to have its champions.
• 33:30
  It just does nothing for me. I wonder if it's gone the other
• 33:34
  way a little bit since the animation's come back.
• 33:37
  And I think people didn't think much.
• 33:39
  People thought highly of it then.
• 33:41
  People didn't think too much of it when they saw the final Test.
• 33:45
  Then they watched the animation and were like, OK, if it had
• 33:49
  been presented like this, then perhaps it this story has some
• 33:53
  worth to it. I don't know where people stand
• 33:56
  with this and whoa, let's find out, shall we?
• 33:58
  Let's find out. Go me first with the comments.
• 34:01
  Oh, shall I go first? Yes, absolute terror, Michael
• 34:07
  Storm says. The concept and the idea of the
• 34:11
  toy maker is far better than the story itself, which I suspect is
• 34:15
  vastly improved by the animation.
• 34:20
  Sure, sure. Than sweet.
• 34:21
  We like this. OK, who didn't put these in
• 34:25
  order on here? OK, it's Mad Paddington, which
• 34:28
  is of course the best username on Blue Sky or X or wherever
• 34:32
  they're on. This is such a shame.
• 34:34
  A great idea, largely wasted. Michael Goff does good work, but
• 34:38
  everyone else gets on my tits. The animation is good fun
• 34:42
  though. Bin this toss.
• 34:45
  Toss should we should we all jump in on these comments
• 34:51
  phrases you wanted to go next? Oh, you don't?
• 34:53
  I will chime in with what Daniel Daniel Lawnsley has to say,
• 34:57
  which is it's the same episode 4 times, it's the same episode
• 35:02
  four times, it's the same episode 4 times, it's the same
• 35:06
  episode 4 times. But if that sort of thing floats
• 35:10
  your boat, well, that's all right then.
• 35:12
  Oh, well done, Daniel, Well done.
• 35:16
  Next up, Jason Thompson, The Celestial Toy maker, on the
• 35:20
  other hand, is awful. Great concept, but Doctor Who's
• 35:23
  Phosphoria into effectively Supernatural is just a bunch of
• 35:26
  games which coincidentally reach their climax at the exact same
• 35:29
  moment. Even with the Toy maker
• 35:31
  arbitrarily jumping ahead with the Trilogic game Bin, on the
• 35:35
  other hand, he says. I wonder what story's being so
• 35:38
  positive about. It's.
• 35:40
  Almost. It's almost.
• 35:40
  These. It's almost as if they're out of
• 35:43
  sequence. I know.
• 35:45
  I did it on purpose. Could you tell?
• 35:46
  No, it was an accident, David. It was completely.
• 35:48
  Oh no, no, it was totally on purpose.
• 35:50
  Because I could see that people were telling you off.
• 35:52
  And I quite, I quite enjoyed watching people telling you off.
• 35:55
  Oh, I love people telling me off.
• 35:56
  It's a weird kink. Simon Threadgold too impressed
• 35:59
  with itself for being moderately imaginative.
• 36:02
  It never bothers to be interesting.
• 36:04
  Oh dear. This next comment is one of my
• 36:06
  favourites. It's it's the memorable
• 36:10
  username. I I love that you've got a
• 36:13
  fantastic name. I'll remember it for the rest of
• 36:16
  this sentence. Sucks but with a decent call
• 36:22
  which which is I believe my review on Grinder.
• 36:27
  I think it was you. Know is it me then Rob Davidson
• 36:34
  Leonard Celestial Tie Maker is a textbook exercise in taking a
• 36:37
  high concept premise and making it as mundane and tedious as
• 36:40
  possible. The animation did a great job of
• 36:43
  making it watchable, but only the ones.
• 36:48
  It's a long 1, so bear with me. Good luck from James Lark.
• 36:54
  There's no better illustration of the new production team's
• 36:56
  inability to put inventive ideas on screen effectively than the
• 36:59
  celestial toy maker. I mean, this ought to be
• 37:02
  absolutely brilliant, right? A Tour de force of surreal wit,
• 37:06
  Grotesquely scary. Doctor Who does Alice in
• 37:08
  Wonderland, right? So the fact that we end up with
• 37:11
  something that appears to be based upon a long afternoon with
• 37:13
  a whale, meaning Great aunt who's dusted off some old games
• 37:15
  from her Arctic because that's what children would like is
• 37:18
  actually kind of unforgivable. Oh, except it's the story.
• 37:22
  Oh, except it's the story that John John Wiles quit over.
• 37:25
  And everyone else much? Oh, good sake.
• 37:29
  Oh, except. Oh, except it's the story that
• 37:31
  John Wiles quit over and everyone was much happier.
• 37:34
  Well, that's all right then, I was going to say it's really
• 37:37
  nice to know that you can handle a long one, but clearly you
• 37:40
  can't. Lee Newby, he of the long hair,
• 37:48
  like Brad Pitt in that. And Troy, have you seen the
• 37:52
  picture of him on? Oh man, he's beautiful.
• 37:54
  Anyway, Matt, you. Want to go to bed?
• 37:56
  Stop pooping over there. The Celestial Toy Maker is a
• 37:59
  fascinating premise given some very creepy realisation.
• 38:03
  Well, bravo for being the first positive comment.
• 38:09
  OK, Adipose lover next toy maker suffers from being mostly
• 38:13
  missing and the N word line, but even if it was in the archives,
• 38:18
  it's just an extravagant play school episode play school
• 38:24
  gunfighters attempts to do what their own succeeding is the only
• 38:26
  stories you've dodo effectively, I think you've chopped that out
• 38:29
  or some. Yeah, well, you know, and how to
• 38:31
  put things together so. There you go.
• 38:33
  We know where you're standing on gunfights.
• 38:38
  We'll remember that for Brilliant One.
• 38:41
  We've got Cliff Chapman next. Cliff Chapman says Celestial Toy
• 38:44
  Maker is terrible. All the interesting stuff is in
• 38:47
  the 1st 50 minutes, then it's just boring.
• 38:51
  Andy Parkinson says a bit repetitive and silly, but the
• 38:54
  animation really helps it, especially with the quirkiness
• 38:56
  of it. Dodo comes across as stupid at
• 38:58
  times though, which I don't like.
• 39:00
  A fair attempt at an interesting story, but I'd probably still be
• 39:04
  hit. Chris Curtis says concept sounds
• 39:07
  more interesting than execution. The danger of the situation is
• 39:10
  never really convincing. The man who always get an gets
• 39:15
  an entrance. It's the big.
• 39:16
  Big, big. It's the orange orange, and it's
• 39:24
  the Michael. Michael, come on.
• 39:29
  A story where the orphan episode built it for reputation in the
• 39:32
  80s and 90's. The behind scenes drama is
• 39:35
  almost more interesting than what we get on screen.
• 39:39
  And finally, the man who owns. The I've got one later.
• 39:42
  Later on I've got one late comment as well came in.
• 39:45
  Oh, you do? Well, OK, penultimately then.
• 39:48
  Put that one in now because they are all slightly ordered to make
• 39:55
  sure that every story has a positive comment to end them.
• 39:57
  Oh. Oh no no, this one is a positive
• 39:59
  comment to end as well. Which one this?
• 40:03
  What should I should I do this last one?
• 40:04
  Yeah, go for. Go for it.
• 40:06
  The man who owns the the great God's pussy himself.
• 40:10
  The toy maker's cat, he goes. I know it's a Marmite story, but
• 40:15
  I can't help but love it. I mean, it's called the toy
• 40:17
  Maker's cat, right? The toy maker, spectacularly
• 40:20
  played by Michael Goff, has been a character I've loved since the
• 40:24
  Hartnell years. VHSI can see its flaws and
• 40:27
  repetition, but for me, this story and its characters just
• 40:31
  click. And from an anonymous source who
• 40:35
  might be close to me, Toy maker. The animation brings it up
• 40:40
  massively, makes the story thoroughly entertaining.
• 40:44
  Gough does an amazing job, especially with Hartnell's
• 40:46
  absence. Wow.
• 40:49
  I mean, we had at least three positive comments there in the
• 40:52
  sea of negativity. What do you expect from this?
• 40:56
  That they'll always, someone will always find something here.
• 40:59
  So I think we ought to give Joe the next comment on this.
• 41:05
  Oh, hello. Yes, yeah, Joe.
• 41:09
  If it was the original version, it would be in the bin and burn
• 41:13
  along with all the others. Well, actually it was burned,
• 41:15
  wasn't it? So a bit like Belinda in Lux,
• 41:18
  you know, just grab all the all of the frames and put them on
• 41:22
  the pyre. But you know, if it was the just
• 41:25
  the animation, I would probably keep it, you know, because I
• 41:28
  think the animation really sells visually.
• 41:33
  What can be done with this fucking limp scripts if you've
• 41:38
  got some people with some imagination and energy behind
• 41:41
  it, But we're not talking about the animation.
• 41:44
  So I am going to be yes, we are even.
• 41:46
  Yeah, we're talking about the animation now.
• 41:48
  No, we're not, I'm afraid. Even with awesome pictures, it's
• 41:53
  so thin and it's so lacking in incident and intellect that I'll
• 41:59
  even with that delicious animation, I was actually quite
• 42:03
  bored as it went long. Dave is right, Dodo is
• 42:08
  unbelievably stupid and childish.
• 42:11
  She feels like she's pit and written as like an 8 year old
• 42:14
  rather than an adult, which is odd because I just don't get
• 42:16
  that elsewhere, you know? In other stories she's impulsive
• 42:20
  and she's inquisitive and you know she does all the things you
• 42:22
  want a great Doctor Who companion to do, but in this
• 42:25
  she's just fucking stupid, isn't she?
• 42:28
  She's tripping up all the time. Yes, she is.
• 42:31
  I, I think it should come. I mean, because I've heard this
• 42:33
  so many times. Some people have daughter
• 42:35
  stickers mints. In this one it's.
• 42:37
  She comes across as naive to me more than anything she comes
• 42:40
  across as. Thick as shit.
• 42:42
  It's a very thin line. It is, but I think, you know,
• 42:45
  there's there's another story we're going to talk about where
• 42:47
  she's properly dense. She's like thick as a whale
• 42:49
  omelette. But in this one she really just
• 42:51
  comes across as being like I say, naive, but she's she's got
• 42:55
  a lot of heart. I mean, we'll talk about you,
• 42:57
  David. You talk about that scene at the
• 42:58
  end with with Civil where she gets suckered in because he's
• 43:03
  pretended to be hurt. And it's like, well, that she's
• 43:07
  just doing what you'd expect. A Doctor Who carry at the douche
• 43:09
  is like, you know, we should see someone here.
• 43:11
  Oh, obvious phrase are yeah. But what's you know, so OK, I'm
• 43:15
  just going to leave it and suffering.
• 43:17
  Well, no, he's. Clearly not suffering.
• 43:20
  He's clearly a villain being played villainously and he's
• 43:23
  clearly a very cheeky boy who's going to play tricks, so the
• 43:27
  fact that she can't see that is just so stupid.
• 43:31
  Ask yourself this question the. Difference is.
• 43:33
  Barbara Wright. No, absolutely darver, right?
• 43:36
  Wouldn't know she. Was.
• 43:37
  She 100% would. Have yourself.
• 43:40
  She without this question, if there was a national referendum
• 43:43
  with public school boys in charge, would a country fall for
• 43:46
  the antics of a public schoolboy?
• 43:48
  Yeah, because they're all a bunch of dodos.
• 43:51
  Barbara would do exactly the same as Dodo.
• 43:53
  Barbara would know it's probably a trap, but she would want to
• 43:57
  help the person that she thought might be suffering.
• 44:00
  What I think this story should be and what I imagined that
• 44:04
  Wiles and Tosh wanted to tell was rather than a load of very
• 44:09
  simple visual games like, you know, sit in the chair and dance
• 44:16
  across the floor, you know, where you just don't even need
• 44:19
  half a brain cell to figure out how to get through it.
• 44:23
  I just imagine a version of this story that's all smart, witty
• 44:28
  word play and game. So a bit more like what's
• 44:32
  happening in the Mind Robber. You know, that version of this
• 44:36
  story I think could be really, really interesting and a bit
• 44:39
  more literate as well. Again, like the Mind Robber, but
• 44:43
  it's not. It is 15 minute set pieces drag
• 44:47
  interminably as we sort of figure out the rules within the
• 44:51
  1st 30 seconds and then watch the games play out over 15
• 44:56
  minutes. And that just ain't fun, you
• 44:58
  know? And I know Fraser in a minute is
• 45:00
  going to tell us that that is fun for some people, but for
• 45:04
  most people that's just very dull to watch, unfortunately.
• 45:09
  Yeah, It's not creepy. It's not odd, which I think it
• 45:13
  should be. It's not disturbing, which I
• 45:16
  think it should be. And I think the original version
• 45:18
  was going to be all of those things.
• 45:20
  What it is is just one four episode plot.
• 45:25
  And so, yeah, I would like to put it in the bin.
• 45:27
  I just don't think there's any creativity here.
• 45:31
  I don't think there's any wit here, and I think all the rest
• 45:35
  of these stories display those things in abundance, so this is
• 45:39
  the outlier for me. Been it.
• 45:42
  So the the toy maker is 1 down in his own game.
• 45:46
  Fraser, why don't you tell Joe why he's wrong?
• 45:49
  Well, I'm going to. I'm going to start with David
• 45:50
  first. Oh no.
• 45:52
  What are what are the six words I'm going to say to you, David?
• 45:58
  This is fun. Are you mad?
• 46:00
  Exactly you. Are you are mad?
• 46:05
  This is. Fun.
• 46:09
  Yeah. So I did say I was going to keep
• 46:10
  everything a little bit short tonight, but obviously there's
• 46:13
  an exception every rule. So if you didn't take the piss
• 46:16
  back the first time, take it. Now Focuses, we're going to go
• 46:19
  in for the Celestial Toy Maker and why I think this one needs
• 46:22
  to be kept. No, I will still try and keep it
• 46:26
  brief. You know, I could talk to you
• 46:27
  about how I first came across the rest of your Time Maker,
• 46:30
  which was actually in issue number 196 of Doctor Who
• 46:34
  Magazine, which was the first copy of Doctor Who Magazine I
• 46:37
  ever got. I had a small operation when I
• 46:40
  was probably about 13 or 14 and my mum, while we were waiting
• 46:45
  for this just being an outpatient, bought me Doctor Who
• 46:48
  Magazine because she knew when I talked to who and she needed,
• 46:50
  you know, need some to read while I was waiting from the
• 46:53
  operation. And it was 196 in there was the
• 46:56
  archive. So I read every single bit about
• 46:59
  that. I've never read another archive
• 47:00
  since in this much depth. And I just absorbed all of that.
• 47:04
  But I'm not going to talk too much about that because, you
• 47:07
  know, if you if you stop talking nostalgia, I know what happens
• 47:09
  on this this show. Then then Toby Halo gets mad and
• 47:12
  he kind of crawls out your telly backwards like some radar
• 47:14
  version of the kid from the ring and terrorizes you.
• 47:19
  So likewise, I won't talk about the hot New Years where I did
• 47:21
  exactly what David said. But, you know, I enjoyed the
• 47:24
  episode when I got to the end. And we know all about the
• 47:27
  production issues. We know how many times it was
• 47:29
  rewritten and how, Yeah. Or Dodo has, you know, got the
• 47:32
  same number of letters and her name is Anne because they have
• 47:36
  to swap it over just like to exit out, which doesn't really
• 47:39
  make sense when you consider how long, how many times it was
• 47:41
  actually rewritten and and all the rest of it.
• 47:43
  But I'm going to, instead, I'm going to give you the three
• 47:47
  reasons why I'm going to put this through, OK?
• 47:50
  And they are #1 it's a good story #2 the toy maker is a good
• 47:56
  villain and #3 it's a good animation.
• 48:01
  So you might be thinking, that doesn't sound very much like
• 48:05
  you, Fraser. That sounds very short and sweet
• 48:08
  and not your usual stream. Of that doesn't sound very much
• 48:12
  like you. Yeah, that's because those are
• 48:15
  actually the reasons of Luca James Gregory, aged 13 and one
• 48:20
  third, who is my son. So my son loves this story, my
• 48:26
  son off the back of Reality War of all things.
• 48:30
  You know, he's always had an interest in in Doctor Who.
• 48:32
  He's loves watching the Happiness Patrol with us, but
• 48:34
  he's always dabbled more than anything off the back of the
• 48:37
  Reality War. He started cleaning everything
• 48:39
  that was on the iPlayer while we were on holiday.
• 48:42
  We came home and all of a sudden off my DVD shelf disappeared my
• 48:47
  copy of the Celestial Toy Maker, which he borrowed, kept and
• 48:53
  watched and watched and watched and watched to the point where
• 48:57
  he actually wanted his own copy for his birthday.
• 49:01
  So he asked his uncle for a copy on his birthday.
• 49:04
  I had to explain to me uncle because he watched it on his
• 49:06
  birthday and he watched the the existing episode of the final
• 49:12
  Test on the iPlayer and I took a photo of it and put it on
• 49:15
  Twitter. So me brother saw that and
• 49:17
  thought well you've just told me to buy this from for his
• 49:19
  birthday. What's going on?
• 49:21
  So I had to explain to my brother the whole concept of
• 49:23
  missing episodes, which was an interesting conversation to have
• 49:28
  over text. Anyhow, I digress.
• 49:30
  So he has off the back of this become a proper Doctor Who fan.
• 49:35
  He is now going out and he is getting as well as his own copy
• 49:39
  of the Celestial Time Maker. He is getting the Recon.
• 49:42
  So he is watching the Myth Makers.
• 49:45
  He watched the Myth Makers while I was out the other night.
• 49:47
  I have tried to watch season 7B today I had to stop because he
• 49:54
  came down with the Dog Master Plan.
• 49:55
  So we have to sit and watch the first few episodes of the Dog
• 49:57
  Master Plan together. You know this this story has
• 50:00
  made him a fan and I think that is exceptional.
• 50:04
  I I enjoy the story myself. Never happened before, and it
• 50:07
  never happened again. It has though, and I think this
• 50:11
  is this is the key point that we need to think of.
• 50:14
  So I agree with his point. I think it is a good story.
• 50:17
  I think it's well plotted. You know, it is a mess, but I
• 50:21
  think out of the mess we get something that is actually quite
• 50:23
  enjoyable. I really enjoyed the episodic
• 50:26
  format of this. I like the fact that it is one
• 50:28
  game per episode, that or two in the the case of the dancing
• 50:34
  floor, which means that you know, if you miss one of these,
• 50:38
  if you're away for one week, you know, bearing in mind this isn't
• 50:42
  something that was binged. It was watched weekly.
• 50:45
  If you miss week 1, you can catch up on Week 2.
• 50:47
  If you miss Week 2, it doesn't really matter.
• 50:49
  You've still got you can dip in and out of this one.
• 50:53
  The fact that the same characters keep coming through,
• 50:55
  but they are not the same characters.
• 50:56
  They're the same actors and they're playing different
• 50:58
  characters, but the same character but a different
• 50:59
  character. It's still the tie makers pawns,
• 51:01
  but they are now. You know, it's a clown, it's a
• 51:03
  playing card, it's a a Sergeant and a kook.
• 51:08
  I think all of that is is is is brilliant and it really works
• 51:12
  just like the toy makers cut. This clicks for me.
• 51:15
  The toy maker, yes very good. Dylan Michael cough and does his
• 51:18
  best. Obviously I forgot his name
• 51:21
  again. 0. No, Michael.
• 51:25
  Dolph, John. Wales.
• 51:27
  John Wales, Yes, John Wales had this initial idea of the the toy
• 51:32
  maker being a far more sinister person than he is.
• 51:35
  You know it was going to be this huge battle of wits between
• 51:38
  heart and aunt that sounds. Amazing.
• 51:41
  But at the same time, he wants to write hot and aloud, so he
• 51:43
  has written him out and made him disappear.
• 51:45
  So it does fall on Stephen and Odo because of the production
• 51:49
  team's efforts to try and and get rid of the lead actor.
• 51:53
  So yeah, golf's got a bit of a watered down Rd. but he never
• 51:57
  disappoints. He is actually, you know, really
• 51:59
  sinister and charismatic. He's he's a child, you know,
• 52:04
  yes, he's a God, but he's a child.
• 52:05
  It's childish games and kind of speaks to what I'm saying about,
• 52:09
  you know, this made my son a fan.
• 52:11
  The animation I think is really important because everything
• 52:14
  that you have said why you don't like this?
• 52:16
  Because we can't watch it. We can't actually watch it.
• 52:20
  We haven't got those episodes. Episode 3, the dancing floor,
• 52:22
  David, all that stuff where there's just people shouting.
• 52:25
  You're missing everything that's going on in that scene.
• 52:27
  So the running around, trucking things at each other, bit of
• 52:31
  slapstick, bit of, you know, physical comedy in the first
• 52:35
  episode. All you know, if you're just
• 52:36
  listening to that soundtrack, all you can hear is he.
• 52:41
  Always wants to put it on when we go to bed, I said.
• 52:43
  I'm not listening to that honking when I'm trying to
• 52:45
  sleep. You can't see what's going on.
• 52:48
  So that is the real thing. You know when I said you know,
• 52:51
  yes, I will remind you when Episode 3 comes back and we we
• 52:54
  really appreciate it and see how good it is.
• 52:56
  It's because once we can see the visuals, it won't be nearly as
• 52:59
  boring as it is we. Can see the visuals in episode 4
• 53:03
  and they're so boring. Yeah, I'm not talking about
• 53:05
  episode 4, I'm talking about episode 3.
• 53:07
  But it's the same director, Fraser, in the same studio with
• 53:11
  the same actors. And it kind of goes back to the
• 53:13
  same the issue, you know, production issues behind the
• 53:16
  scenes, because we know this is a cheap production.
• 53:18
  We know that it's cheap. We're judging it as adults in in
• 53:24
  2025 when really we should be thinking of the kids in
• 53:27
  1965661966. You know, we should be thinking
• 53:33
  of this as kids. So let's bring it back to my son
• 53:37
  Toluca. This story is still attracting
• 53:42
  new viewers. Yeah.
• 53:44
  This black and white story, which is what, 50 odds, 60 odd
• 53:47
  years old, is still bringing in new fans.
• 53:50
  Now. I think that is just
• 53:52
  fundamentally so important and so wonderful and magical that no
• 53:57
  matter what I think as an adult, you know, it's the kids.
• 54:01
  Joe, how many times have you said that the show has lost
• 54:04
  sight of the kids? You know, it's your biggest
• 54:06
  stick for beating them off at the era it lost track of the
• 54:09
  kids. This this has got the kids
• 54:13
  firmly in their sight and it's bringing them in, yet we as
• 54:16
  adults find it for them, I think.
• 54:17
  It's wonderful that your son has used this as a gateway to Doctor
• 54:21
  Who, and I think it's wonderful that it means that you can now
• 54:23
  experience Doctor Who through him.
• 54:25
  But if your argument for saving this story, if your son likes
• 54:28
  it, I mean, I could say that about any bloody Doctor Who
• 54:31
  story. I've got a friend that likes it
• 54:33
  or my mother quite like the stones of blood or that's not a
• 54:36
  critical argument. That's someone I know likes it.
• 54:40
  Yes, but it's. I'm talking about the future,
• 54:43
  The future of Doctor Who fandom. You know Doctor Who, that as we.
• 54:47
  Imagine the future of Doctor Who fandom is going to rely on the
• 54:50
  Celestial toy maker animation. It's a part of.
• 54:52
  It just one part of it. That's your son.
• 54:55
  I don't think anyone else is going to be there outside him.
• 54:59
  See, you've said it's a gateway, so don't be the gatekeeper.
• 55:02
  I'm not trying to be a gatekeeper.
• 55:04
  I said it was. Wonderful the person that says
• 55:06
  this story is going to go in the bin because I as an adult think
• 55:11
  it's dull when the kids love it. I think it's shit, that's why
• 55:16
  I'm putting it in the bin. Yes, because you're miserable.
• 55:21
  I just I have a understanding of what makes good.
• 55:25
  You told me in season 3 a when we were discussing Mission the
• 55:29
  unknown, you said I watch everything as a six year old
• 55:31
  child. Yeah, as a six year old Charles,
• 55:35
  this was for me fucking to tell you.
• 55:37
  No it wouldn't. It absolutely would.
• 55:39
  Hot Scotch. Are you kidding me?
• 55:41
  Not being a. Stubborn.
• 55:42
  I was watching Bugs when I was six years old that was much more
• 55:46
  excited than this. You've been watching bugs when
• 55:48
  you were 6 year old. I don't know how old you are.
• 55:50
  You know bugs at six years old. You sit on a.
• 55:54
  Throne of Lies and that throne's electrified because that's a
• 55:57
  really good game. So yes.
• 56:01
  Put. This through, put this through
• 56:03
  on the basis that it isn't really good story, one that I
• 56:08
  enjoy, but take it up a level. Think of the kids, embrace the
• 56:13
  future while celebrating the past.
• 56:16
  Don't be that gatekeeper, don't be that person that says no this
• 56:22
  is rubbish. Doctor Who shouldn't be like
• 56:24
  this. Let's put it through.
• 56:26
  But I don't like kids anyway Fraser, so I am going to be the
• 56:29
  gatekeeper. Fine.
• 56:31
  I shall call you Julie. But also as well yours, one of
• 56:33
  your reasons is the animation, and that gives us an unfair
• 56:36
  advantage of every story that doesn't have animation.
• 56:39
  You're going on a version of this story that never existed in
• 56:42
  the 60s. I'm going off the version that I
• 56:46
  can't see, but I know that the version I can't see is worse
• 56:52
  because I can't see it because I can't see the visuals.
• 56:54
  That is why it comes across as being a bit boring when you have
• 56:59
  got big spaces. I mean, even in you know, we've
• 57:02
  got that lovely bit in the dancing floor where it is also
• 57:05
  animated and psychedelic in the 60s and trippy as fuck, which
• 57:08
  never was on the screen. There was something else.
• 57:10
  It's probably just those dancers pure whipping around as as
• 57:14
  dolls, but it is still something to watch.
• 57:16
  You can't see within the Recon because we've got no telly
• 57:19
  snaps. Remember, this is all just, you
• 57:21
  know, based on, you know, publicity shots and whatnot.
• 57:25
  So we haven't even got telly snaps to show us what it looked
• 57:27
  like. We are just having to, you know,
• 57:30
  use our imagination. So come on guys.
• 57:32
  We're doing that with the massacre and the dialect master
• 57:35
  plan as well, but absolutely riveted with.
• 57:37
  The Can you imagine John Wales version of this as well?
• 57:40
  Fat done in the done in the style of the massacre.
• 57:43
  My high words. You talk if you think this is
• 57:45
  boring. You think it's acidic word play?
• 57:48
  Born and John. John's son likes this as well,
• 57:52
  you know. But I I trust John to have at
• 57:54
  least some critical faculties, to dismiss his son's opinions,
• 57:59
  and to say that this is tedious. John.
• 58:01
  I've got my own opinions, I've got my own opinion, I would
• 58:05
  still put this through. I am just saying because of the
• 58:09
  reaction my son has had, we need to take that account and that
• 58:11
  really gives it a terrible boost for me.
• 58:13
  Make your last move, Doctor. Make your last move.
• 58:18
  The toy maker is immortal. He's lasted for thousands of
• 58:21
  years. Very occasionally, of course, he
• 58:24
  loses the game and then he has to pay the price.
• 58:28
  Look, as long as we defeat you, that's all I care.
• 58:31
  You can't beat us now. We shall see.
• 58:34
  We've said, my boy, we've said, well said.
• 58:37
  He doesn't even know what he is saying.
• 58:40
  These adolescent expressions of loyalty.
• 58:44
  Before you make purer promises, remember the part.
• 58:48
  Your little adventures. Remember my power.
• 58:52
  Your part we won through, didn't we?
• 58:58
  Perhaps, but would you dare to play those little games again?
• 59:02
  Not. Until I've laid hands on you.
• 59:05
  No, it's no you Stephen, leave him are.
• 59:07
  You all right? I couldn't touch him.
• 59:10
  He's using his mind to turn your strength against yourself.
• 59:14
  Now go back into the TARDIS. I will deal with him.
• 59:17
  OK, well we all have your son in our lives so.
• 59:21
  John has a son who goes John, do you want to shut us up and tell
• 59:25
  us what you think of this one? Well, it's nice to get right
• 59:29
  into it. It turns out to be a casting,
• 59:31
  but well, I kind of think the animation was revealing to me
• 59:35
  because this is a story that is deeply compromised by the fact
• 59:39
  that we can't see it. It's such a visual kind of
• 59:42
  story. I think the way it's made, and I
• 59:45
  know that though of acting isn't very good in that episode.
• 59:49
  We've got that, but the episode we got left strikes me as the
• 59:51
  least interesting visually because there's no movement to
• 59:54
  it. You know, with with the other
• 59:56
  ones, there's the action of fast, there's the action of the
• 59:58
  dancers. There's something there.
• 1:00:02
  You reckon that plowing around in Episode Wild?
• 1:00:05
  That's going to be absolutely. Dynamic do.
• 1:00:07
  You I had. Until I had the animation, yeah.
• 1:00:12
  And the. And the other thing is this
• 1:00:13
  story's been kind of damned in recent years by by being raced,
• 1:00:19
  but the kind that racist accusation.
• 1:00:22
  And it really isn't it's toy maker is quite deliberately A
• 1:00:27
  fetishist at what they call an orientalist.
• 1:00:31
  So, so, yeah, I don't hold that it's racist, particularly given
• 1:00:37
  it's less than Americans, like rather than British.
• 1:00:42
  So The thing is, it is, I think that's where he said a kind of a
• 1:00:47
  Meccano story, a Lego story. It's one that you could
• 1:00:50
  basically string out as long as you want.
• 1:00:53
  And that does mean that it feels like there's kind of no real
• 1:00:56
  progression. It's always going to went
• 1:00:57
  arbitrarily. The only kind of remote taking
• 1:01:00
  the story is the doctor and the trilogic game, and that's kind
• 1:01:05
  of it's kind of cheated all the way through.
• 1:01:10
  So there's not that much thing, you know, the toy maker wants
• 1:01:14
  him to get to the end. It it I I kind of find difficult
• 1:01:19
  because I did enjoy it more than I thought I was going to, but I
• 1:01:23
  went in expecting absolutely nothing at the at the start.
• 1:01:26
  Do you really want to agree with?
• 1:01:27
  Eddie, do you? I I do like Peter Purvis in
• 1:01:30
  this, but I I do like it because him.
• 1:01:34
  No, no, I don't really particularly, but I I do have
• 1:01:40
  Peter Purvis in it though as well.
• 1:01:41
  He does a fantastic his car. I I love the kind of contrasting
• 1:01:45
  approaches everyone has to their games.
• 1:01:47
  You know, Steve is trying to bulldoze for everything.
• 1:01:50
  Dodo's just trying to enthusiastic get everyone.
• 1:01:52
  It tells you what they'd be like on a games night.
• 1:01:54
  You know it. It's it's quite revealing their
• 1:01:56
  character. So I do like that about it.
• 1:02:00
  Even if Dodo is as as as Freddy said, thick as a whale omelette
• 1:02:05
  at 1:00. Point thick as mints in this
• 1:02:08
  one, just thicker than a whale omelette.
• 1:02:10
  That's right, yeah. No, actually I didn't say that.
• 1:02:12
  I said she was naive. I said she was thick as shit.
• 1:02:16
  Too kind. The only.
• 1:02:18
  Thing I I do is just one line delivery.
• 1:02:21
  The the, I think it's comes over the a playing card that is
• 1:02:26
  delivered like a handbag, you know, like Damien de Thames
• 1:02:30
  delivers that in importance of Being Earnest.
• 1:02:35
  There is a lot to like in it, but I just do think the
• 1:02:39
  execution on it is is appalling. I think Michael Goff does a
• 1:02:45
  sterling job as well. He has Albert Ward's hand to act
• 1:02:48
  against and that's it. And he does keep those scenes
• 1:02:52
  engaging. But I can't quite bring myself
• 1:02:57
  put to it. I was kind of, I'm kind of 46
• 1:03:00
  against it. I'm not as as downright as David
• 1:03:02
  and Joah, but I I think I'm just going to edge it to the bin,
• 1:03:08
  just tip it slightly in. So why?
• 1:03:12
  Do you only think I? Want a good argument for?
• 1:03:15
  Sparkle Gough is really boring. Hey I.
• 1:03:18
  Just don't think he's. A Fraser.
• 1:03:20
  But my nephew's first story was Legend of the Sea Devils.
• 1:03:23
  I'm not putting that into either.
• 1:03:25
  Yes, Fraser, what is it that you want to champion or Chuck in the
• 1:03:33
  Toymakers Dolls house? Oh, what should I do?
• 1:03:39
  What should I do trying to pick one to keep or and I'll I'll
• 1:03:47
  pick one of the three stories that I'm going to bin this
• 1:03:49
  evening, while one A1A role, you know would start the.
• 1:03:53
  Best one you've ever been done strictly.
• 1:03:55
  Oh. No, I've been, I've been one or
• 1:03:58
  two before, I'm sure. But so let's talk about the
• 1:04:03
  savages, shall we? Savages and which has a a few
• 1:04:11
  good points about it. I think it's it's got a good
• 1:04:15
  score. I'll give it that.
• 1:04:17
  It sounds nice. And I think this one is probably
• 1:04:22
  the best story for Doodle because I think she gets to be
• 1:04:26
  sort of really plucky and she gets to be adventurous and she
• 1:04:29
  gets to wander off and explore things and drive the plot
• 1:04:32
  forward and not not be thick for once.
• 1:04:36
  So, you know, this is this is a really good story for doodle,
• 1:04:41
  but I'm I'm I'm not putting it through.
• 1:04:43
  I have some some issues with this.
• 1:04:45
  I think, Oh, it's just dull. It's just boring.
• 1:04:52
  It's just really plodding and pedestrian.
• 1:04:55
  I think it really speaks of, you know, Ian Stuart Black Holmes in
• 1:05:00
  and you've got Jerry Davis as he script that and neither of them
• 1:05:03
  really know who Doctor Who is or what Doctor Who is.
• 1:05:06
  Sure is about and what they're really doing.
• 1:05:09
  I think there's some comments coming up about how it could
• 1:05:11
  just be a a generic episode of Star Trek in the 60s.
• 1:05:14
  And I think that's fair enough. And, you know, there's oh, what
• 1:05:19
  we're doing well, when the when the big city now and we'll go
• 1:05:23
  into some corridors and we'll go into some caves and there's a
• 1:05:26
  jungle and there's some savages. And yeah.
• 1:05:29
  And it's just does very little to actually engage me story
• 1:05:33
  wise. This one.
• 1:05:34
  I think there's probably there was some potential there for it
• 1:05:37
  to be a little bit better if you'd bought sort of Frederick
• 1:05:40
  Jagerbaum coming in as the doctor.
• 1:05:43
  If that had been a bit early and have been a bit more work
• 1:05:46
  through and, you know, rather than just squeezed into the last
• 1:05:51
  sort of 15 minutes of the last episode.
• 1:05:53
  What might have to make a bit better.
• 1:05:55
  And second reason is, is Stevens departure is just really
• 1:05:59
  bobbins. We are in the era of bobbins
• 1:06:02
  companion departures, as we are going to discuss later on this
• 1:06:05
  evening. But Stevens one is is just
• 1:06:08
  really strange. It's kind of like out of nowhere
• 1:06:11
  they decide, oh actually, well, we need someone to kind of stay
• 1:06:14
  and be the boss of it all. Hey, Doctor Who, you'd be
• 1:06:16
  perfect for that. And he's like what?
• 1:06:18
  No, no, no, take him. I don't want to stay here.
• 1:06:23
  Are you mad? Oh.
• 1:06:24
  This is this, this, this. That's a total idea.
• 1:06:26
  But no, take him instead. He can have the towable idea.
• 1:06:29
  He can. He can have the shit job.
• 1:06:31
  Because I don't like him anymore and I've just decided I don't
• 1:06:34
  like him. He's just really quite shouty
• 1:06:36
  and exasperated all the time. And yeah, he was a bit of a Dick
• 1:06:39
  when I was just a hand. And you know how you lose having
• 1:06:42
  to play all those games? You know, someone should make a
• 1:06:45
  DVD extra out of that. But it just seems really, really
• 1:06:48
  strange departure for him. And I find it a little bit
• 1:06:54
  uncomfortable the the sort of racial element as well, because
• 1:06:58
  Frederick Yeager gets blocked up.
• 1:07:01
  The the story was entitled The White Savages.
• 1:07:04
  And from what I gather, it was going to be a Powerball about
• 1:07:09
  apartheid with the savages being white and the, the the people in
• 1:07:16
  the city, the elders being black, but all blacked up to be
• 1:07:19
  black. And I think that's that doesn't
• 1:07:22
  really sit well with us in that respect.
• 1:07:25
  So yeah, Bin for me. Limey Well, on that historic
• 1:07:34
  note, let's go and find out what the listeners thought of it.
• 1:07:41
  I'll take the first comment, then go from there.
• 1:07:44
  It's Jason Thompson, a man who we me Joe probably still owe an
• 1:07:48
  apology for, for Kill the Big winning Season 8, or it be the
• 1:07:52
  Savages. It's a lovely story that I'm
• 1:07:55
  sure would be better appreciated.
• 1:07:58
  I've got this formatting horribly if probably if we saw
• 1:08:02
  if we could see it. The Doctor is now unquestionably
• 1:08:05
  the moral hero of the series, and I can't read and lose this
• 1:08:09
  because it it's. And Stephen's departure is
• 1:08:12
  nicely done. Keep.
• 1:08:14
  Thank you. Thank.
• 1:08:15
  You. You know, right?
• 1:08:17
  Following that, Mad Paddington says it's gone up in my
• 1:08:20
  estimation since the cartoon came out.
• 1:08:22
  A really interesting concept which I suspect would look great
• 1:08:26
  if we could see it for real. You lept in there because you're
• 1:08:30
  going to give me the slightly longer one, haven't you Sir?
• 1:08:35
  Twat Natalie Newby says The Savages alongside the myth
• 1:08:41
  Makers, TDMP and the Massacre top my list of greatest
• 1:08:44
  Heartnell stories. Once more Dodo gets a great
• 1:08:47
  character development in a story which is very socio politically
• 1:08:50
  astute to be a commentary on racism and more clearly class
• 1:08:54
  division. It doesn't give any easy answers
• 1:08:57
  and leaves Stephen with plenty to sort out at the end.
• 1:09:01
  Adipose lover Savages is really creative and a decent finale for
• 1:09:05
  Stephen, even though the massacre would have been better.
• 1:09:09
  Can you read that, John, or would you like me to keep?
• 1:09:11
  Going I can read it now. OK, close.
• 1:09:13
  The document is come back right. Andy Parkinson I've always liked
• 1:09:17
  this story ever since I heard the audio.
• 1:09:19
  Bizarrely, where animation helps toy maker, I think it detracts
• 1:09:22
  here. A good story that flips who were
• 1:09:25
  supposed to think the savages really are.
• 1:09:27
  One of my favorite particle stories and the best one of the
• 1:09:30
  stories you're talking about. My.
• 1:09:33
  God, compared to the toy maker style Simon Fregrove,
• 1:09:37
  thankfully, it's very succinct. A decent original series Star
• 1:09:41
  Trek episode. That's all he says.
• 1:09:44
  Michael Storm says a solid story with strong performance.
• 1:09:47
  Is this whose first quarry doubling as an alien world?
• 1:09:50
  I think it is, yeah. Meow, it's the timing.
• 1:09:57
  Not one of my favourites even after the recent release.
• 1:09:59
  I'm sure there were some very easy shots and tones in the
• 1:10:02
  original, but you don't quite get that in an animation.
• 1:10:05
  I think what happens to Jano is clever and how the change is
• 1:10:08
  portrayed, but it's just not the story for me.
• 1:10:12
  I would agree I. Think I'll go with this this
• 1:10:15
  strange character called Eddie who's left me comments on
• 1:10:20
  rewatch. The animation was much more
• 1:10:22
  entertaining than I remembered. Not particularly memorable, but
• 1:10:26
  doesn't deserve to be binned either.
• 1:10:28
  Well, Cliff Chapman says The Savages has a really clear story
• 1:10:32
  that feels like it could have come out of the 70s.
• 1:10:37
  Next up, we've got everybody's favorite.
• 1:10:42
  I can do the cheerleader thing, but it's not my usual style.
• 1:10:44
  But can I have a big? Big.
• 1:10:47
  Have an orange. Orange.
• 1:10:49
  Have a Michael. Michael.
• 1:10:51
  Michael, I'm going to. I'm going to have to explain
• 1:10:54
  this to my husband for what that what are you doing?
• 1:10:58
  Who's Michael? Why is he orange?
• 1:10:59
  And specifically, why are you calling him big?
• 1:11:03
  You can see the series evolving into what it will be in the 70s
• 1:11:06
  and 80s a bit with this underrated story.
• 1:11:10
  Underrated, clear cut, enjoyable, engaging.
• 1:11:13
  I'm liking these words. Oh, Chris Curtis says it looks
• 1:11:18
  so dark and Moody from the stills we have.
• 1:11:21
  Yes, it does have a whiff of Star Trek plot, but always view
• 1:11:24
  this as the first proper dystopian culture.
• 1:11:27
  In Who? Daniel Worsley Fairly slight
• 1:11:33
  sci-fi material, but the novelty lies in seeing how Hartmouth's
• 1:11:36
  sly how far Hartmouth's sly old doctor has come.
• 1:11:41
  He's now starting to redefine himself from wandering cosmic
• 1:11:44
  nobody into an unequivocal force for good in the universe whose
• 1:11:49
  fame and conscience preceding a hero in a frog coat.
• 1:11:53
  And finally, username. Hello username.
• 1:11:57
  What a bizarrely anonymous hand will you have.
• 1:12:01
  Is it Ian Levine? Who knows?
• 1:12:03
  But what he says is really underrated.
• 1:12:06
  A great demonstration of the Doctor's character growth.
• 1:12:10
  It can't be Levine. It's not in capitals.
• 1:12:12
  That's true. Yeah.
• 1:12:13
  Can't. Imagine.
• 1:12:14
  Fasting miles. And I can't imagine Levine ever
• 1:12:17
  going anonymous into anything, no.
• 1:12:18
  It's very true. Plus plus it's not 100% either
• 1:12:22
  way. So I guess I'll go next then.
• 1:12:28
  Yeah, I think Fraser, the the political analogies are really
• 1:12:32
  nice, kind of the apartheid ones.
• 1:12:34
  But really it's one I was watching this time.
• 1:12:37
  I just can't get over how much is basically ripped off.
• 1:12:40
  Not Star Trek, but I think Brave New World, the oldest actually
• 1:12:43
  think that stratified society. And even if you want, you can go
• 1:12:47
  back to, you know, the Eli and the Morlocks from HG Wells.
• 1:12:51
  It's a basic kind of class analogy.
• 1:12:55
  But I think the important thing you hear is this is basically
• 1:12:58
  the planet of the Doctor Who fans.
• 1:13:01
  They've charted his adventures throughout space and time.
• 1:13:05
  This is the planet of the nerds. They've been watching on iPlayer
• 1:13:09
  and waiting for them to get here.
• 1:13:12
  So basically, given this is kind of a patrician society, this is
• 1:13:19
  Ian Stewart Black having a go at the BBC and Doctor Who viewers.
• 1:13:22
  So I, I think that's brave. You know, it, it's early lover
• 1:13:26
  monsters on that score. I, I kind of do wonder here.
• 1:13:33
  I don't think we'd miss much if we got these episodes back
• 1:13:36
  because again, it's a quarry and it's quite a generic side by
• 1:13:40
  side. So unless that setting again,
• 1:13:43
  and I don't think I from the clips that we've seen that it's
• 1:13:47
  particularly interesting. I don't think it would add a a
• 1:13:50
  great deal to it, and I don't think Christopher Barry is that
• 1:13:55
  good a director to make something of them.
• 1:13:58
  I'd love to. I'd love that.
• 1:14:00
  The ending is them smashing everything up, having a really
• 1:14:05
  good time, really kind of. Fast.
• 1:14:08
  Feeling that does feel kind of earned here.
• 1:14:14
  But yeah, it's it's ultimately it is kind of you know that
• 1:14:19
  savages against the the advanced that we see so often in Blake
• 1:14:24
  seven that we see so often in Star Trek.
• 1:14:27
  It it's just a horribly we've seen it too many times for it's
• 1:14:31
  I I think that we quoting other side of our stories tells you
• 1:14:35
  this is such a kind of a generic story and it's nearly kind of
• 1:14:41
  rescued by Freddy Jager's heartland impersonation.
• 1:14:44
  I love that. I kind of love the the solution
• 1:14:47
  to all this is be more doctor that.
• 1:14:50
  That's kind of really nice thing.
• 1:14:52
  And it is I think, you know, it's the end of the war machines
• 1:14:57
  where he faces down the war machines where everyone says the
• 1:14:59
  CEO is changed. But I think it's here because
• 1:15:00
  this is kind of the first time he becomes this moral force.
• 1:15:04
  And I think it's possibly because Jerry Davis is a script
• 1:15:06
  editor, has this more black and white view of the world than
• 1:15:10
  maybe Donald Tusk, David Whitaker had.
• 1:15:15
  But getting phrases right, it's just takes so long to get
• 1:15:19
  anywhere. And there's nothing particularly
• 1:15:22
  interesting going on outside Fred Jaeger.
• 1:15:24
  There's none of the performances are particularly remembered 10
• 1:15:28
  seconds after listening to it. So I'm going to bin this one.
• 1:15:36
  So there you go. It's one nil down with all to
• 1:15:40
  play for, so we do. Not understand you, Doctor, You
• 1:15:47
  who have accepted our honours gladly, How can you condemn this
• 1:15:51
  great artistic and scientific civilization?
• 1:15:54
  Because of a few wretched Barbarians?
• 1:15:56
  So your rewards are only for the people that agree with you?
• 1:16:00
  No, no, of course not. But if you are going to oppose
• 1:16:02
  us, I oppose you. Indeed, I am going to oppose you
• 1:16:06
  just in the same way that I oppose the dialects or any other
• 1:16:10
  minutes to come in humanity. I'm sorry you take this
• 1:16:13
  attitude, Doctor. It is most unscientific.
• 1:16:17
  You are standing in the way of human progress.
• 1:16:18
  Human progress, Sir. How dare you call your treatment
• 1:16:22
  of these people progress? They are hardly people, Doctor.
• 1:16:25
  They're not like us. I fail to see the difference.
• 1:16:29
  You will not realize that all progress is based on
• 1:16:32
  exploitation. Exploitation, indeed.
• 1:16:34
  Yes, Sir, is protracted matter. We have achieved a very great
• 1:16:37
  deal, nearly by the sacrifice of a few savages.
• 1:16:39
  A sacrifice of even one soul is far too great.
• 1:16:42
  You must put an end to this inhuman practice.
• 1:16:47
  You leave me no choice. Take him away, Captain, and tell
• 1:16:54
  Centre that we have an emergency.
• 1:16:57
  Just before that, I'll tell you where we have seen this story
• 1:17:00
  done much better already in this season, Galaxy 4.
• 1:17:05
  Oh, my God. Oh, God.
• 1:17:08
  Fraser. Jeez Louise.
• 1:17:10
  I think you're both wrong. If I'm honest.
• 1:17:13
  I think there's far more interesting things going on here
• 1:17:15
  than you suggest, John. And do you know what?
• 1:17:17
  Guess what, Fraser. Right.
• 1:17:19
  Yeah. I didn't think much of this
• 1:17:20
  story, but my fiance really likes it.
• 1:17:24
  As a as a result, I've gone on a bit of a journey with him.
• 1:17:29
  It's a story that's been forgotten for years, but I think
• 1:17:32
  when you give it some consideration, there are some
• 1:17:34
  real gems within it. I'm going to give you a couple
• 1:17:37
  of quotes to suggest that there are more things going on than
• 1:17:40
  you say. John.
• 1:17:41
  I love the line. Human progress, Sir, How dare
• 1:17:45
  you call your treatment of these people progress.
• 1:17:48
  That moral indignation of Hartnells is so fabulous, but
• 1:17:52
  even better is Hartnell's. Like later in the story where he
• 1:17:56
  goes, you wanted my intellect. You've got it, along with a
• 1:18:00
  little conscience. And that psychological battle
• 1:18:04
  that Frederick Jaeger has in three and four is so
• 1:18:08
  interesting. I love it.
• 1:18:09
  You're right, John. It is the the planet of the
• 1:18:12
  fascist right wing Doctor Who fans.
• 1:18:14
  Yeah, the Elders. They're wanting to suck the life
• 1:18:17
  out of Doctor Who and leave it a withered husk, wanting to char
• 1:18:21
  every part of the show, observing it but not engaging
• 1:18:25
  with any of it, with bizarre ideas of hierarchy and
• 1:18:28
  superiority and a lack of respect for any other opinions.
• 1:18:32
  I mean, they're just monsters, aren't they?
• 1:18:35
  At the end, when Dodo's there with that bloody spanner or
• 1:18:38
  whatever she's using, smashing up the library of Doctor Who
• 1:18:42
  fans, it's just wonderful. I'd love to do it to Ian
• 1:18:45
  Levine's collection Two. Talking of Dodo, a wonderful
• 1:18:49
  story for Jackie Lane. She's got brilliant, insatiable
• 1:18:53
  curiosity and an ability to seek out the truth.
• 1:18:56
  Perfectly suited to be a Doctor Who companion in this.
• 1:18:58
  Takes nothing at face value, blunders into trouble, and
• 1:19:02
  enjoys causing chaos and destruction at the end of the
• 1:19:05
  story. If there's ever a story, I think
• 1:19:08
  there is one. Best story for Dodo in this run
• 1:19:10
  that we're talking about, but this might be my favorite for
• 1:19:14
  her. I think this is the one where
• 1:19:15
  she gets the most to do. I think this would have looked
• 1:19:19
  amazing. I think you can see in the tally
• 1:19:21
  snaps that this is beautifully lit and well shot as well.
• 1:19:24
  Lots of great, big, really intense close-ups during
• 1:19:28
  dramatic moments. You can see great lighting for
• 1:19:32
  the sets as well. I think this would have been a
• 1:19:34
  really stylish bit of work. You can almost see it from the
• 1:19:37
  photographs they've got of the quarry and that you know that it
• 1:19:40
  looks like it's going to look pretty great.
• 1:19:42
  But the score, I think the score is completely unique in the
• 1:19:46
  history of Doctor Who. All those strings that are used
• 1:19:49
  in this story. There's no other Doctor Who
• 1:19:52
  story that sounds like this, and I would put this through on that
• 1:19:55
  alone because I think this is a really dramatic piece of music.
• 1:19:59
  Yeah, I really like this. I I don't know what to say.
• 1:20:02
  I think you're kind of right. It is basic.
• 1:20:04
  It is very black and white. I think it has enough ideas to
• 1:20:08
  keep it chugging along. Enough set pieces, enough fun
• 1:20:12
  characters. I mean, Heartener in Episode 1's
• 1:20:14
  having the best time. Thank you, young lady, for
• 1:20:17
  making me look so grand. He's having a great time.
• 1:20:21
  What is it? He says?
• 1:20:23
  If I can't just throw myself in with you people, I do have my
• 1:20:26
  reputation to think about it. Having the best.
• 1:20:29
  Time in the world? No, I think it's delightful.
• 1:20:31
  I would keep the Savages, and I'm rather hoping that David
• 1:20:35
  will too. But let's find out.
• 1:20:38
  Well, let's see if his husband is got everyone if that he wants
• 1:20:42
  to share. I can go and ask him because,
• 1:20:44
  you know, I make him watch the animations.
• 1:20:47
  Indeed. You know, he's like, oh, that
• 1:20:49
  was fine. Actually is pretty poor.
• 1:20:53
  I think compared to the special toy maker it's pretty poor.
• 1:20:56
  It is. We watched it.
• 1:20:58
  We want just to digress. We watched it because obviously
• 1:21:00
  Duke bought it for his birthday because he wanted that.
• 1:21:03
  So he's got that before. I have because I haven't got it
• 1:21:04
  yet. And we'll put it on.
• 1:21:05
  And the wife sat there and went. Is that it?
• 1:21:11
  That's the animation. That's what you're paying for to
• 1:21:13
  say is that. Yeah, it's like, I thought it
• 1:21:16
  would be more sort of like Toy Story.
• 1:21:17
  It's like so I have a discussion.
• 1:21:19
  Around Toy Story, what sort of budget does she think they've
• 1:21:22
  got? That's the conversation we had
• 1:21:24
  around, you know, how many, how many of these are going to
• 1:21:26
  shift, how many of Toy Stories going to shift, you know, Pixar,
• 1:21:29
  Disney, money, all the rest of it.
• 1:21:30
  Pixar animating the savages. Wonderful.
• 1:21:35
  Now we've got the Disney money, they can animate them all like
• 1:21:38
  that. Yeah, that's high.
• 1:21:39
  That's not how it. Was you are, Ian?
• 1:21:42
  The romantic talk about the economics.
• 1:21:46
  Yeah, the romantic talk about the economics of Doctor DVD's is
• 1:21:49
  what wonderful. Doctor Who DVDs, The Savages
• 1:21:54
  does have one of the best making of documentaries that Eddie
• 1:21:59
  story's got the fact that you've got a story that has less than a
• 1:22:01
  minute of moving footage and we have a 90 minute in depth.
• 1:22:05
  It's far more interesting than the actual animation story.
• 1:22:09
  I I love the animations. I'm glad they exist.
• 1:22:12
  I'm glad they do interesting things, but it it was a bit
• 1:22:16
  flat. I know it's a 2D animation, of
• 1:22:18
  course it's flat, but there's just certain shots and scenes
• 1:22:22
  where they kind of got all the characters just standing
• 1:22:24
  randomly in line and they go into The Cave and like, oh, this
• 1:22:27
  is beautiful cave. And it's just yeah.
• 1:22:29
  So my there is a Recon David I think.
• 1:22:33
  There is, there is. It's not much better.
• 1:22:37
  So I've been, I'm on the fence with this one because I think
• 1:22:41
  there's a lot to like in it. I think it's a good it's an old
• 1:22:45
  sci-fi idea, but it's a good solid 1, I think now I believe
• 1:22:51
  the elders and Co were painted gold, but unfortunately that
• 1:22:55
  does look unfortunate as it comes out and all they had, all
• 1:23:01
  they had to do was put a line in saying my good, my goodness,
• 1:23:03
  what golden people you are. But yeah, it's it was called the
• 1:23:07
  white savages. I think the original plans of
• 1:23:11
  we're Doctor Who fans, we like to blind eye certain things and
• 1:23:13
  tend that things on that saying that Bernard Kay is blacks up in
• 1:23:17
  the crusade and everyone seems to give that a pass.
• 1:23:20
  It's because it's like, oh, it's lyrical and it's.
• 1:23:23
  You know, everything gets a pass apart from talons of Wenchuang
• 1:23:27
  because we're Doctor Who fans and that's how it works.
• 1:23:29
  Oh no, clearly not. You guys are all saying it's an
• 1:23:31
  issue. You're not giving it a pass.
• 1:23:34
  Oh, I'm not necessarily using that as a reason to bid it.
• 1:23:36
  I'm just saying it is. It is.
• 1:23:38
  It is, David. Don't bin it.
• 1:23:39
  No, I thought you loved the Hartle era.
• 1:23:42
  I didn't listen to him. Do what you want to do, David.
• 1:23:45
  Come on the score, David, Thank you for making him so grand.
• 1:23:50
  Oh my God. I want to please everyone.
• 1:23:52
  And if this is making it very difficult, I never knew you
• 1:23:55
  hated William Hartnell so much. David, please yourself before
• 1:24:00
  anyone else, stop it. David, please keep me in.
• 1:24:08
  Don't consign me to the bin, dear boy.
• 1:24:10
  Oh. Please, David, spare us from any
• 1:24:12
  more heart compressions. That's worse than his bloody
• 1:24:14
  McCoy. I think his heart was quite
• 1:24:17
  good. The one one thing I'll say 1
• 1:24:20
  positive is I listened to the hamster that you did with Mark
• 1:24:25
  and you did a completely missing story because I was thought how
• 1:24:27
  can you do a commentary on a missing story?
• 1:24:29
  Just tell. And then that's been not long
• 1:24:31
  afterwards you came to me and said make a story and I picked
• 1:24:34
  myth makers and we had a bloody good time with that one.
• 1:24:37
  So your your savages commentary has had some wonderfully
• 1:24:41
  positive not going to affect me because that's still think
• 1:24:43
  that's one of the best things we did.
• 1:24:44
  Did you like the bit where Mark was doing the impression of
• 1:24:46
  Jackie Lane in Doctor Who confidential the 60s talking
• 1:24:50
  about the savages. That was great.
• 1:24:52
  Wouldn't. It I I don't know.
• 1:24:56
  If it's positive or negative, because it's like, I've written
• 1:24:59
  goodbye to Steve and thank God because there is a character
• 1:25:02
  that has overstated his welcome. He should have gone, someone
• 1:25:04
  said in the conference he should have gone at the end of the
• 1:25:07
  massacre. That would have been a really
• 1:25:08
  interesting and different exit. And yeah, he's really overstated
• 1:25:14
  his welcome as a character. He just tends to be really
• 1:25:16
  shouty. And if we're talking about, you
• 1:25:18
  know, what our families think of these things, anytime I put a
• 1:25:21
  story on with Stephen and Chris just says saying, well, he just
• 1:25:23
  stop shouting because that's Paul.
• 1:25:25
  He does. And Mark's generally sort of
• 1:25:28
  quite hard every time he starts shouting.
• 1:25:32
  Interesting how different people take, particularly when they get
• 1:25:35
  hold. But yeah, he's and he's an arse
• 1:25:39
  to Dodo, particularly in episode 1 where she's like, I've seen
• 1:25:42
  you better. They've been travelling for some
• 1:25:44
  time, they've built some sort of rapport.
• 1:25:46
  It's that thing I hate in drama where characters who you know
• 1:25:51
  know each other and someone goes, something's not right.
• 1:25:53
  I've seen something suspicious and the other one goes, you're
• 1:25:56
  stupid. What do you think this is a me
• 1:25:59
  and it just She's just as mean to him though she goes, you
• 1:26:02
  don't have to do everything he says to you.
• 1:26:05
  You are a grown man. And that's probably why on the
• 1:26:08
  DVD cover, that's the rather dodgy hand gesture they've got
• 1:26:12
  doing doing which seems to be mocking Stephen's manhood.
• 1:26:18
  OK, I'll change my mind. Stick it.
• 1:26:20
  I, I, Valerie Singleton said. He was very well endowed.
• 1:26:24
  Thank you very much. I didn't disagree with some of
• 1:26:27
  the comments and I'm sorry, Joe, I'm going to disagree.
• 1:26:29
  I from the telesnapse and from the I this a bit visually,
• 1:26:37
  there's not much that grabs my attention that I mean, it's not
• 1:26:41
  helped by the fact that clips you've got have been shot
• 1:26:42
  through a sock. It's also Christopher Barry and
• 1:26:46
  as much as I enjoy the demons, I don't think Christopher Barry
• 1:26:50
  was always the most reliable of directors.
• 1:26:52
  I mean, look at Robot. I think robot at times is
• 1:26:56
  borderline ineptly directed. I don't think he's he can be
• 1:27:00
  good. Bring him.
• 1:27:01
  Obviously he was really good, but sometimes so it does make me
• 1:27:04
  worry when these things come back.
• 1:27:05
  It's like it's actually going to be well directed or not.
• 1:27:09
  This opinion conflicts with my prime directive.
• 1:27:15
  Sorry. That scene where the robot
• 1:27:16
  escapes and they all very slowly walk away from it.
• 1:27:20
  He's held down the stairs. Isn't he by Jellico?
• 1:27:23
  Yeah. And OK, so this is a sci-fi
• 1:27:26
  story and yes, it's very Star Trek and I love original Star
• 1:27:28
  Trek and it just has sort of hallmarks of that.
• 1:27:31
  But the problem is you get to 2/3 into episode 1 and it starts
• 1:27:35
  to become really obvious what's going on.
• 1:27:38
  But they've got 10 minutes. So they kind of pad it out and
• 1:27:40
  it's like, that's the cliffhanger to Part 1 where
• 1:27:41
  you're going to go, OK, that this clearly that you talk about
• 1:27:44
  draining a life force and here's the sound.
• 1:27:45
  So you kind of by the end of episode 1, you know what's going
• 1:27:47
  on and they kind of sort of then sort of treads water for a bit.
• 1:27:52
  I mean, the the cliffhanger episode 2 was actually really
• 1:27:54
  good. And I think if we could see it,
• 1:27:55
  that might be quite interesting. I like the Scott.
• 1:28:00
  I think Frederick Yeager is heart noise good.
• 1:28:03
  You see, I'm I'm I've I've got this instinct to want to please
• 1:28:06
  people and I feel like I'm going to make Joe cross and I'll
• 1:28:08
  probably never get invited back if I if I say I'm no, no, not at
• 1:28:13
  all. Yeah, sorry.
• 1:28:14
  I mean. Don't worry about him.
• 1:28:16
  Yeah. So yeah, I, I.
• 1:28:18
  Just do that your screen so you can't see him.
• 1:28:21
  On reflection, and also because I don't want to put everything
• 1:28:24
  through because at one point all but time maker were going to go
• 1:28:27
  through and I want to make it interesting.
• 1:28:30
  Yeah, Sorry, Savages. Oh, don't you tell me you like
• 1:28:35
  that day, Hartnell. All right, that's all a fallacy.
• 1:28:39
  You've been two stories on the bounce.
• 1:28:42
  This is the end of your YouTube channel.
• 1:28:46
  Look, if these episodes come back, that's the end of my
• 1:28:48
  YouTube channel. I have to stay missing.
• 1:28:50
  Otherwise I've got no content. You don't get to watch them now,
• 1:28:52
  I'm afraid You've binned them. They're staying in the bin.
• 1:28:56
  It's all right. We'll burn them when they come
• 1:28:57
  back. You're all right.
• 1:28:59
  Anything to preserve YouTube channels because they're great,
• 1:29:02
  obviously. So we are not the two here, both
• 1:29:06
  of them in the. Bin.
• 1:29:07
  This is going to be very. First, strictly when nothing
• 1:29:10
  goes through. Oh, wouldn't that be hilarious?
• 1:29:13
  Everything on a split vote. That's great.
• 1:29:15
  Yeah. What?
• 1:29:15
  What went through off this one? Wow.
• 1:29:17
  Nothing. Nothing.
• 1:29:18
  It makes the heart laugh. So sure.
• 1:29:20
  Anyway, no doubt it's Part 2. I'm easy.
• 1:29:24
  I'm going to come to the beacon of positivity that is Mr. Joe
• 1:29:27
  Ford and seeing what he's going to champion or what he's going
• 1:29:32
  to condemn. Let's talk about the war
• 1:29:35
  machines. To the Inferno nightclub we go.
• 1:29:42
  Yeah, it's kind of fabulous, isn't it?
• 1:29:44
  I mean, I'm hoping everyone loves this.
• 1:29:48
  I mean, my point number one is style, baby.
• 1:29:52
  We've got the 60s fashions coming in for the first time,
• 1:29:55
  maybe Dodo in that weird hoopy costume.
• 1:29:58
  But there's nightclubs. We've got new, young, hip
• 1:30:01
  companions. I think the nightclub scenes in
• 1:30:06
  Episode 1 are really unique and they probably shouldn't have
• 1:30:11
  been. I know there's those coffee shop
• 1:30:13
  scenes in Evil of the Daleks. I think those scenes should have
• 1:30:16
  informed the contemporary stories going forward because
• 1:30:20
  it's just so refreshing to be out on the town with the
• 1:30:25
  Doctor's companions. I think it's great.
• 1:30:27
  It really gives this a lot of like a great domestic feel.
• 1:30:33
  And obviously, you know, Polly comes straight in.
• 1:30:36
  I really would like to go to the hottest nightclub in town, says
• 1:30:39
  Upper class Dodo. And then Dodo's there.
• 1:30:43
  Come on Dodo, this is a rescue mission.
• 1:30:46
  The Navy's in trouble. Hi, she goes to Ben.
• 1:30:50
  I just love all of those things. Ben fighting the fella.
• 1:30:53
  It's kind of, it is unique, right?
• 1:30:55
  I can't think of other scenes. Is there anything else like this
• 1:30:59
  in Doctor Who? Can you think of anything?
• 1:31:03
  They don't know what they're doing with this kind of story
• 1:31:05
  yet, so they can they can get away with.
• 1:31:07
  This, they do know what they're doing with this kind of story,
• 1:31:11
  and they sort of forgot after this, which is such a shame
• 1:31:14
  because it's really, really fun and it's sort of hip and cool in
• 1:31:18
  a 60s way that Doctor Who never does again, even though there's
• 1:31:22
  still like 3 years of the 60s still to go, Which is a shame.
• 1:31:28
  The evil Internet vote on. How wonderful.
• 1:31:32
  We can't say we weren't warned about the evils of connecting up
• 1:31:35
  all of these computers around the world, can we?
• 1:31:38
  As ever, Doctor Who offers portents of the future that we
• 1:31:42
  choose to ignore. Although the line it only
• 1:31:45
  supplies the truth suggests that perhaps that vote on is nothing
• 1:31:50
  like the Internet that we experience today, shall we say?
• 1:31:54
  Oh, certainly. We've been Doctor Who fan
• 1:31:56
  circles anyway, and I do, I'd love to quote Machines cannot
• 1:32:02
  govern, man, because let's be honest, we are slaves to
• 1:32:07
  technology these days. And we might all sit there and
• 1:32:10
  look a bit sheepish when I say that, but I'm fairly certain
• 1:32:13
  we're all slaves to our phones in our day to daily life in one
• 1:32:17
  way or another. Yeah, I think this was pointing
• 1:32:21
  to the future and saying, actually, this is a bad thing
• 1:32:24
  that's happening and we didn't listen.
• 1:32:27
  I love William Hartnell in this as well.
• 1:32:29
  Boy, oh boy. Even when he's not at his
• 1:32:31
  absolute best, he is the governor of Doctor Who, isn't
• 1:32:35
  he? And he trounces all the others.
• 1:32:37
  The end of Episode 3, where he's got his hands on his labels and
• 1:32:41
  stands right up to that war machine.
• 1:32:43
  One of the best cliffhangers ever in Doctor Who.
• 1:32:46
  He's just wonderful in this, isn't it?
• 1:32:48
  He's equally at home dishing out technological advice, hanging
• 1:32:52
  out in a nightclub or bringing down an attempt to take over the
• 1:32:57
  world. This is supposed to be William
• 1:32:58
  Hartner on his last legs, and he's just wonderful, absolutely
• 1:33:02
  wonderful. I think he's got a wonderful
• 1:33:04
  chemistry with Jackie Lane in the first half of the story, and
• 1:33:08
  he's got an even better chemistry with Paulie and Ben,
• 1:33:11
  especially Ben. They have scenes together in
• 1:33:14
  night two and three. He's calling him governor in it
• 1:33:17
  and stuff like that and he's chastising him.
• 1:33:19
  Quite a, I think the first Optopoly and Ben, it's a much
• 1:33:24
  underrated Dr. and companion team.
• 1:33:27
  I would like to have seen a bit more of it actually.
• 1:33:30
  Yeah, it's stylish as fuck as well.
• 1:33:32
  It's so well directed, this story.
• 1:33:34
  This is one of the two I was talking about that opening
• 1:33:36
  aerial shot coming down on the TARDIS in what's that place
• 1:33:40
  called? Summit Square, in the middle of
• 1:33:42
  Fitzroy. Fitzroy Square, absolutely
• 1:33:46
  stunning. But there are directional
• 1:33:48
  flourishes throughout this. I mean, they manage.
• 1:33:50
  He manages to make those interminable scenes, the
• 1:33:52
  building, the war machines really exciting.
• 1:33:56
  And the comedy bit where the tramps running around.
• 1:33:59
  I mean, all you need to do is add the music because it's so
• 1:34:03
  funny. Yeah, it looks great.
• 1:34:06
  It's pacey, it's fast, it's witty, it's pure 60s.
• 1:34:11
  I think The War Machines is an absolute banger of a Doctor Who
• 1:34:14
  story. It's coming back to Earth and
• 1:34:17
  it's acing that format in a way that I don't think we ever do
• 1:34:21
  quite as well again. Let's keep it.
• 1:34:25
  Now it's a beacon of positivity to match Fraser earlier.
• 1:34:30
  That's right. Shall we go to the comments end
• 1:34:33
  and see what epic batch of comments we have here?
• 1:34:38
  First up, it's the big the. Big.
• 1:34:46
  It's the orange. Orange.
• 1:34:49
  Orange. And it's the Michael.
• 1:34:58
  That was such a long pause then, John, you know.
• 1:35:01
  I thought you'd fool us again. I'll put on an incredible
• 1:35:06
  fanfare there because we was all very confused.
• 1:35:14
  War machines keep it, if only for the cliffhanger as the
• 1:35:17
  Doctor defiantly opposes the war machine.
• 1:35:20
  Another step towards 70s Doctor Who that works well.
• 1:35:26
  Go on, David, you take username. It's succinct.
• 1:35:28
  It's succinct in short. So I'm going to fuck out.
• 1:35:30
  So username says pretty cool, but nothing incredible.
• 1:35:34
  Andy Parkinson says an interesting story let down by
• 1:35:37
  the eponymous machines and Dodo's exit, which is a terrible
• 1:35:41
  way to treat the character. I agree.
• 1:35:44
  It's quite funny, though. She says she'd like to stay in
• 1:35:46
  the country and fuck off with that.
• 1:35:49
  I like the use of the post office tower.
• 1:35:51
  Using recognisable landmarks always keeps us.
• 1:35:54
  Always helps the story seem a little more scary.
• 1:35:57
  Keep it. Best selling author Lucy McCall
• 1:36:00
  says I really like the war machines, bringing the Doctor
• 1:36:04
  back to the 60s and the threat of the future to the present
• 1:36:06
  day. Ben and Polly are lively and
• 1:36:08
  engaging. I wonder if Ben would be less
• 1:36:10
  likeable if he wasn't played by Michael Craze.
• 1:36:16
  Daniel Rawnsley junket jump cut. Can you tell the 60s?
• 1:36:22
  This is a very busy story. Technology turns evil,
• 1:36:25
  companions come and go, The army become allies.
• 1:36:28
  A new modern tone is established.
• 1:36:31
  The show's future is coming. Yet, ironically, this story is
• 1:36:34
  all about our own unease with the future itself.
• 1:36:39
  Jason Thompson The War Machines is unlike anything the series
• 1:36:43
  has done to this point and it is amazing to realize this is the
• 1:36:45
  only time we really see how it knows Doctor in the quote.
• 1:36:48
  Present day, end of quote, and he fits perfectly.
• 1:36:52
  Okay, the machine themselves are a bit shit and easily distracted
• 1:36:55
  by piles of boxes, but this is great, Mr. Mad Paddington says.
• 1:37:00
  In which some monster robots go full star skin hutch on some
• 1:37:05
  cardboard boxes before being defeated by traffic gowns War
• 1:37:09
  Keep. I'm back once again with the
• 1:37:12
  time it as Cat Who says another classic for me and amazing
• 1:37:17
  really that the whole story was set on contemporary Earth,
• 1:37:20
  something which just didn't happen back then.
• 1:37:23
  I know Doctor Who is a really annoying element for some, but I
• 1:37:26
  really like it if the line just wouldn't work without it.
• 1:37:29
  It's that emphasis on who. Some chancer called Eddie, never
• 1:37:38
  heard of him. Slimy.
• 1:37:41
  This is an almost perfect story. Frankly, the only floor I can
• 1:37:45
  think of this with this is Dodo's exit, which makes RTD 2
• 1:37:49
  companion exits look like the best thing written on
• 1:37:52
  television. Won't turn voice.
• 1:37:56
  Passing this through is required.
• 1:37:58
  I can't listen to the youth everybody, the youth now they
• 1:38:02
  agree with me know exactly what they're saying.
• 1:38:05
  Lee Newby the war machines really is the prototype for what
• 1:38:08
  they ahead. It has everything you expect
• 1:38:11
  from a story set in modern day London.
• 1:38:12
  A famous landmark. The public getting slaughtered
• 1:38:15
  by a relentless, unstoppable adversary, a couple of plucky
• 1:38:17
  locals helping out military involvement, the doctor
• 1:38:20
  infiltrating scientific and government establishments, and
• 1:38:23
  an epic standoff that. Was superb.
• 1:38:25
  David, I'm getting better. I'm getting.
• 1:38:27
  I'm getting it. It's the wine that's wearing
• 1:38:29
  off, isn't it? The Adipose Lover.
• 1:38:33
  Interesting though. War Machines is really cool,
• 1:38:36
  being a sneak peek to Earthbound stories with Hartnell's final
• 1:38:40
  amazing performance, but suffers for not having a horrible
• 1:38:43
  companion departure. Oh, for having a horrible
• 1:38:47
  companion departure. Sorry.
• 1:38:51
  And Cliff Chapman, The War Machines has a lot of nice
• 1:38:55
  stuff, but it's a bit underdeveloped and all the stuff
• 1:39:00
  is a bit irritating. Plus Dodo is done dirty.
• 1:39:04
  What does that mean? So dodo's done dirty.
• 1:39:09
  Yeah, what's happened to Dodo? Just don't.
• 1:39:12
  Expect in the Inferno nightclub. Oh, it comes.
• 1:39:14
  In those hot spots in kinky. Bastards, aren't I?
• 1:39:17
  Yeah, OK. I think you're taking that a
• 1:39:18
  little bit too literally. Simon Fredgold Fresh, fun comic
• 1:39:26
  book DW that embraces it's rare contemporary setting.
• 1:39:31
  What it loses in dumbing down, it makes up for in renewed
• 1:39:34
  energy. Chris Curtis says I've always
• 1:39:38
  had a soft spot before Boss there was Votan.
• 1:39:41
  Love the contemporary setting and new companions.
• 1:39:44
  First real time 60s who felt like it was in the 60s.
• 1:39:47
  Still think Hartnell facing off a war machine was great.
• 1:39:51
  He still had it a never lost it David.
• 1:39:54
  Oh my word, Gareth Bowley besties war machines.
• 1:39:57
  Hartnell is bossing in the modern day.
• 1:40:00
  The war machines look great plus army action too.
• 1:40:04
  Gareth. Really sad about Dodo's exit,
• 1:40:07
  but it's a minor compared to the other good stuff here.
• 1:40:12
  Gareth Madison believes that The War Machines is such an atypical
• 1:40:16
  Hartnell story. Also one of my favourite
• 1:40:19
  Hartnell stories. Joe's nemesis, Mr. Michael Storm
• 1:40:26
  the blueprint for who to come, Not just the unity Europe also
• 1:40:30
  RTD. One pity Dodo gets at short
• 1:40:34
  Swift. Edward Gillooly writes War
• 1:40:37
  Machines is easily the best of the run.
• 1:40:39
  Hartnell in a nightclub. Great for a story for Ben and
• 1:40:43
  Polly, although a bit harsh how Dodo dropped off the screen.
• 1:40:46
  It also has the novelty of him being referred to as Doctor Who.
• 1:40:51
  David, I dig your fab gear. Fab gear, John Iles, not John
• 1:40:59
  Wiles. John Iles says.
• 1:41:01
  Can you remember that name now, Fraser?
• 1:41:03
  Nope. OK, I can't walk past or see an
• 1:41:06
  image of the Post office BT Tower without hearing or even
• 1:41:09
  saying in vote has whispering sinister voice.
• 1:41:13
  Doctor Who is quiet. All right, so we know what
• 1:41:21
  everyone else thinks. We know what Joe thinks.
• 1:41:23
  David, what do you think? Right.
• 1:41:26
  I've been nasty, I've been mean, I've been cruel, but I I OK,
• 1:41:30
  let's bring the positivity because I bloody love this
• 1:41:33
  bloody time. This is you talk, you know, we
• 1:41:37
  talk about comfort stories, things that you can just put on
• 1:41:39
  and you can watch and it just it's like a big warm hug of a
• 1:41:43
  story. That's the war machines for me.
• 1:41:45
  I, I first got it 97 when the video came out and it was, there
• 1:41:49
  was quite a bit of build up to it.
• 1:41:50
  There was a lot of articles on the restoration team website.
• 1:41:52
  So I was starting to get into restoration missing episodes.
• 1:41:56
  So it was so tantalising this kind of, they had to rebuild
• 1:41:59
  parts of the story. They had to use all these
• 1:42:01
  different bits in the jigsaw. And then they've got the Blue
• 1:42:05
  Peter clip on the start of it, which is unfortunately, it does
• 1:42:09
  make the War Machine look a bit crap because it can't go through
• 1:42:11
  some boxes. But don't worry, Christopher
• 1:42:12
  Trace and Valerie Singleton are definitely tuning in on Saturday
• 1:42:15
  to see what goes on. It's Joe.
• 1:42:18
  You kind of nicked on my points because it is, Oh no, it means
• 1:42:22
  we're in a chord, which is good. Michael Ferguson, you compared
• 1:42:26
  Michael Ferguson's direction to oh.
• 1:42:28
  Fraser said, shaking his head. You should never be in a chord
• 1:42:31
  with Joe. It's never, ever a good place to
• 1:42:33
  be. Compare this to Bill Sellers
• 1:42:36
  direction in toymaker. This is so stylish.
• 1:42:39
  She he knows framing his shots. He's getting some tension.
• 1:42:43
  He he he's cutting like nobody really else had done at this
• 1:42:46
  point. It's dynamic in a way it's you
• 1:42:49
  know, he he would go on to direct some great stories and he
• 1:42:51
  gets off to absolute cracking start.
• 1:42:56
  Everybody's been saying the end of Episode 3, and I don't have
• 1:42:59
  to agree because I think it's really such a great cliffhanger
• 1:43:03
  because it's not just the doctor, you know, clutched his
• 1:43:06
  lapels and facing on a war machine.
• 1:43:08
  It's the 10 minutes that have come before that where for the
• 1:43:10
  first time, the bullets don't work, the guns don't work, the
• 1:43:13
  army are failing. They're all retreating and
• 1:43:15
  running away. Everybody else is terrified.
• 1:43:18
  Who's the person who steps forward and faces it off armed
• 1:43:21
  only with his lapels? It's it's the doctor, it's heart
• 1:43:26
  and all and what a brilliant end to an episode.
• 1:43:29
  Bear in mind he's been a little bit in the background in episode
• 1:43:31
  2 and episode 3, but now he's he's out there.
• 1:43:34
  He's doing it and in episode 4 he's sorting it all out.
• 1:43:38
  Heart is not on his last legs. Yes, they do need to give him
• 1:43:42
  material. They do need to write him up.
• 1:43:43
  And when they do, he rises to it.
• 1:43:47
  The what? You know, I've, I'm trying to
• 1:43:49
  defend Hartnell a little bit because obviously he does fluff
• 1:43:52
  his lines. I feel a certain degree of
• 1:43:53
  empathy with him this evening. But there was one particular bit
• 1:43:57
  in episode 2 and the discontinuity guy wrote it up
• 1:44:00
  saying, oh, William Hartnell forgot what he's meant to say.
• 1:44:02
  Oh, Sir Charles, I don't suppose.
• 1:44:04
  Oh, I don't suppose you would. And they cover it with a line
• 1:44:05
  with coffee going, no, that's in the bloody script.
• 1:44:08
  It's how it was meant to be. And we're going to come back to
• 1:44:11
  the Knotter fluff later and with another story.
• 1:44:14
  So Hartnell's in command of his script.
• 1:44:17
  You know he doesn't get it. WordPerfect.
• 1:44:18
  But then nobody does. And story sidelines.
• 1:44:22
  Sidelines are a bit, but it gives Ben the spotlight.
• 1:44:24
  And Ben and Polly are another reason for liking the story.
• 1:44:27
  Because yes, Dodo, Dodo is what she is.
• 1:44:31
  Everything like that. But you bring in Ben and Polly,
• 1:44:33
  you bring in Annika, Wills and Michael.
• 1:44:35
  Praise. What a breath of fresh air.
• 1:44:37
  They've just got such energy and such a life, but they break.
• 1:44:40
  It's such a pity that it kind of we don't get more of that more
• 1:44:44
  of them as they are in this story and probably the next one
• 1:44:48
  as well. But Anna Karen is fantastic.
• 1:44:52
  She is a really good actor. I don't always think they write
• 1:44:55
  to Polish strength, Anneka strengths as Polly, but this is
• 1:44:57
  one of the stories that does. It was a comment just now saying
• 1:45:01
  would Michael. Is it Michael Chris's
• 1:45:03
  performance that makes Ben bearable because on paper he's a
• 1:45:06
  bit of an arse? Probably.
• 1:45:07
  And he's he's Stephen again isn't he?
• 1:45:09
  He is. He is that sort of bolshy bloke
• 1:45:13
  that's always arguing with the Doctor.
• 1:45:15
  But Michael Chris gives a little bit more charm and he's a much
• 1:45:19
  better actor than Peter Purposes.
• 1:45:21
  Am I the only person that prefers Stephen and Dodo to Ben
• 1:45:24
  and Polly? Yes, probably.
• 1:45:25
  I absolutely think they are way better combination.
• 1:45:30
  So this is a win, this is an absolute win.
• 1:45:32
  This is just, I could go and watch, you know, when we're
• 1:45:35
  done, whatever ridiculous time in the morning, I could go and
• 1:45:38
  stick this on and be quite happy to watch it again.
• 1:45:40
  This is just one of my favourite heartless stories by some way.
• 1:45:44
  So it's going to get binned, isn't it?
• 1:45:49
  No, they're not that bad. Well, if we're talking bad, then
• 1:45:54
  Fraser, yes. Indeed.
• 1:45:57
  Well, OK, then let's start with the bits that of what you have
• 1:46:02
  all said that I agree with and the direction I agree that is,
• 1:46:07
  that is really good. Michael Ferguson in my humble
• 1:46:10
  opinion is the best director that we ever had in Doctor Who.
• 1:46:14
  So you can see I'm starting off here, you know, all we need
• 1:46:18
  really is, is a shot of a war machine with the sun behind it,
• 1:46:21
  setting sun behind it and would have like classic Ferguson.
• 1:46:25
  Well. You get that sort of wobbly
• 1:46:26
  backdrop in Episode 4 Behind the War Machine.
• 1:46:31
  I think one of the things I really like about this is the
• 1:46:35
  the fact you can just see the bones of the show to come.
• 1:46:40
  It's like a distant shadow of what the show is going to
• 1:46:43
  become. The sort of the idea of the
• 1:46:46
  doctor in contemporary Earth with the military helping out,
• 1:46:51
  you know, fighting the threat. The threat is trying to take
• 1:46:56
  over the world. The doctors there with the
• 1:46:57
  military fighting that you know, it's it's put we it's the unit
• 1:47:00
  era and you know, we had but you know, even you know, Peter
• 1:47:07
  Bright and Derek Sherwin will pick up this this concept and
• 1:47:10
  run with it. Lloyd and Davis will make more
• 1:47:12
  of it as we go along. You know, let's and Dicks will
• 1:47:15
  obviously make it awesome. But you know, it starts here.
• 1:47:18
  DNA. The seed is is is put here.
• 1:47:22
  I love the fact they get the doctor's name right.
• 1:47:25
  They call them Doctor Who. It's class.
• 1:47:27
  But you know, and I agree that this is a fantastic showing for
• 1:47:31
  for William Hartnall. These are all going on about the
• 1:47:33
  lapels and the cliffhanger, but none of his have mentioned the
• 1:47:36
  the his reaction and been or the attempted hypnotizing in episode
• 1:47:41
  2 where, you know, he doesn't often get to show much range.
• 1:47:44
  He does not get to show that he's sort of like, you know,
• 1:47:49
  vulnerable, but he really shows it in that moment where he's
• 1:47:52
  late, you know, it's. Come on, do the whole line.
• 1:47:57
  I can't do the whole. Line.
• 1:47:58
  It's like something great powerful was trying to absorb
• 1:48:01
  me. But you know, it's, it's, it's,
• 1:48:03
  you know, his voices break. And so I think, you know, that
• 1:48:06
  that's a really good showing for him.
• 1:48:07
  But, and ultimately, I've got some big issues with this.
• 1:48:13
  Razor. And the first one is got to be
• 1:48:16
  how pissed. Who are the rating is?
• 1:48:18
  I'm afraid the plot is just terrible.
• 1:48:24
  At. Least it has a plot.
• 1:48:26
  I'd like the Celestial toy maker.
• 1:48:29
  The The Toy maker has a very good plot, you know?
• 1:48:32
  It. Doesn't or individual plots.
• 1:48:33
  So let you know let's let's start with episode 1.
• 1:48:36
  So let's let's follow this through.
• 1:48:38
  So the Doctor lands at Fitzroy Square, he gets out, you get
• 1:48:40
  some goosebumps and he goes, oh, there's something evil in that
• 1:48:44
  tower. The very next shot is Doctor Who
• 1:48:46
  walking through the door of that tower.
• 1:48:48
  Wonderful. Straight to sit there, they'll
• 1:48:50
  have a chat and Doodle sits and talks to Polly and goes.
• 1:48:53
  You know what I would like to do that I've never mentioned if any
• 1:48:56
  point or indicated at any point is that I'd like to go to the
• 1:48:59
  hottest nightclub in town in the very next season back.
• 1:49:02
  On Earth with her. It's it reminds us of like the
• 1:49:04
  forest of the dead, but a lot shitter.
• 1:49:06
  Whereas like remember Doctor, you felt so there was some evil
• 1:49:10
  and then you were here. It's just there's no.
• 1:49:14
  It's. Literally.
• 1:49:15
  It's kind of like we've got this 4 episode format and we could
• 1:49:19
  really do with six for this. You really need a bit of time
• 1:49:22
  because Doctor Who just walks in and just all of a sudden he's
• 1:49:26
  been accepted by the Buffins. It's just as if he's knocked on
• 1:49:29
  the door. I said yeah, I'm Doctor Who.
• 1:49:30
  Can I come and look at your seat?
• 1:49:31
  Top secret government project, please.
• 1:49:33
  Oh, yeah, of course you can come on in.
• 1:49:34
  And then he turns up with the press conference.
• 1:49:36
  Yeah, I'm Doctor Who and your mates are going to come.
• 1:49:38
  All right, cool. Do you want to come round my
• 1:49:39
  house afterwards for a couple of sniffers?
• 1:49:41
  And we'll just, you know, we'll stop.
• 1:49:42
  Straight to the point. Pace, pace, pace.
• 1:49:45
  Lovely. Unlike most lodges.
• 1:49:48
  And I know this is going to sound super nitpicky, but it
• 1:49:50
  really noises the bit where the tramp falls out the taxi and
• 1:49:53
  gets killed and they find the tramp's body at 3:00 in the
• 1:49:56
  morning. And yet somehow Doctor Who
• 1:49:58
  manages to read about that in his morning paper.
• 1:50:01
  There is absolutely no time. There's no way that that would
• 1:50:05
  be reported in time for Doctor Who to read it in his in his
• 1:50:08
  paper. It's.
• 1:50:10
  Just a tramp's died. It's.
• 1:50:13
  Full of, of just sort of little inconsistencies like this.
• 1:50:16
  It's like, you know, it's oh, OK, so the war machines are
• 1:50:19
  turning down the street. So it's all going to be all over
• 1:50:21
  the news and and everything it's like.
• 1:50:22
  Would it really? I'm not entirely sure.
• 1:50:27
  So it's, you know, it's the Institute, but again, it's the
• 1:50:31
  same thing I had with the savages.
• 1:50:32
  It's just you don't really get this feeling that they know who
• 1:50:37
  the character is and what he should be doing.
• 1:50:39
  I think Davis is probably installing that at this point,
• 1:50:42
  you know, and you know, the the battle of the Pell scene is
• 1:50:45
  probably a good indication of of Davis thinking, well, this is
• 1:50:48
  where I want this character to go.
• 1:50:49
  I want him to be a bit more heroic.
• 1:50:52
  But just in terms of writing for the show, it's just, it's so.
• 1:50:59
  He's had enough. He's gone.
• 1:51:01
  Yeah. He can't listen to this bullshit
• 1:51:03
  anymore. I think the character work as
• 1:51:08
  well is just really lacking. It reminds me of what you see
• 1:51:14
  about Andrew Cartmel and Ace Joe that he's like Cartmel is
• 1:51:18
  writing for a person just has no understanding of it's you know,
• 1:51:24
  you've got these boffins you've got like, was it professor?
• 1:51:29
  What's he called? Brett Brett, you know, who is
• 1:51:34
  the OR just constantly looking off into the middle distance as
• 1:51:36
  he's took over by Botan, which is a bit.
• 1:51:39
  It's it's it's a dramatic choice.
• 1:51:41
  I think maybe it does work. About that little man, Crimpton.
• 1:51:44
  The Little Man, Crimpton and and Major Bow Tie, whatever you call
• 1:51:47
  him. Colonel Mustard, Major.
• 1:51:49
  Green. Major Green?
• 1:51:50
  That's the one you know, and you've got this, you know, it's
• 1:51:54
  just Sir Charles. He's like, oh, get me the
• 1:51:56
  minister. Minister, we need the army to
• 1:51:58
  come and attack this warehouse. OK, see that in 5 minutes.
• 1:52:02
  Say it's. Just straight, straight to the
• 1:52:06
  point. Pace, pace.
• 1:52:07
  Too straight at the point, too much peace, it's too quick and
• 1:52:10
  it just doesn't land with me. But and then doodles exit.
• 1:52:14
  I mean, everyone else's glossed over it, but I'm going to stick
• 1:52:18
  a nail in it and just say doodles exit is auto shite, you
• 1:52:24
  know. Oh, daughter didn't want to come
• 1:52:26
  back, Doctor. She's staying in the country.
• 1:52:28
  It's like, no, no, in a slow just took her around the back of
• 1:52:31
  the bottom and shot her in the head.
• 1:52:33
  And they just don't want to tell Doctor Who so they'll give him
• 1:52:35
  this little nose. Like, yeah, yeah.
• 1:52:38
  Your dog went to the farm, little boy.
• 1:52:40
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your dog was removed I think.
• 1:52:43
  Holly and Ben actually killed her.
• 1:52:45
  It's went up the opportunity. Went off to live with another
• 1:52:48
  family in the country because yeah, no, I mean.
• 1:52:53
  How you could say that this is too fast after suggesting that
• 1:52:58
  the celestial toy maker moves by a lick?
• 1:53:01
  I mean, it's baffling to me. You know what I think it's it's
• 1:53:05
  the toy maker is perfectly paced for episodes.
• 1:53:09
  That's the thing, you know, each episode is self-contained, as I
• 1:53:12
  said, so it doesn't feel rushed, it doesn't feel slow.
• 1:53:15
  It just feels like for it's like John said, it's McConnell.
• 1:53:20
  You could build another one in the middle.
• 1:53:21
  You could build another one at the start.
• 1:53:23
  You know, you could you could have another 2 episodes of two
• 1:53:25
  different games. You could plot it in there and
• 1:53:27
  it would be fine with this. I think if you give this another
• 1:53:30
  two episodes, I would probably be on the side of well, actually
• 1:53:33
  let's keep it in. But the end of the day, you're
• 1:53:35
  well mean to me kid. You know you've shot on your
• 1:53:38
  kids dreams about the time you. Make, I know.
• 1:53:40
  Bin it. Yeah.
• 1:53:42
  You don't deserve nice things. Fraser, Gregory.
• 1:53:45
  I've got nice things. He's up sleep upstairs cuddling
• 1:53:49
  with this copy of the Time Maker like a.
• 1:53:51
  Shit on your child, I said. How wonderful, I said.
• 1:53:54
  You're freezing, freezing, freezing.
• 1:53:57
  I. Think you're freezing when you
• 1:53:59
  said that? Exactly that sounded wrong.
• 1:54:02
  Sounded so wrong he. Just said you shouting over my
• 1:54:05
  child he's. Dreams, you shout on my dreams.
• 1:54:11
  How do we get here? John, Greg, salvage this.
• 1:54:15
  Good God, I do have a chance to do the funniest thing here,
• 1:54:18
  don't I just bin everything? Do it, do it.
• 1:54:21
  No, John, come on now. You want to fuck Polly like
• 1:54:25
  everyone else? Let's be honest, and I'm not
• 1:54:30
  entirely sure you after this call you don't want to have sex
• 1:54:32
  with Ben as well, John? This is strictly, you know, the
• 1:54:36
  form. This is what we do.
• 1:54:38
  Yeah, I mean, it is the hardest team you'd want to jump in a hot
• 1:54:41
  tub wave, isn't it? Of course it is.
• 1:54:43
  Absolutely, yeah. Oh yeah, it's.
• 1:54:49
  Emerald's actually covered. It you see him in that sauna in
• 1:54:54
  the Romans, man's he's. Got a lovely skinny body.
• 1:54:57
  The bait. That bathing costume in the
• 1:54:58
  Space Museum? Come on.
• 1:55:00
  Come on now, stop it. Greek.
• 1:55:04
  What's your? Opinion.
• 1:55:07
  You're right. It's, it's that kind of a text
• 1:55:10
  of Doctor Who. It's that contemporary Earth.
• 1:55:12
  But it's not quite like anything else because they're going
• 1:55:15
  through, not necessarily so much contemporary.
• 1:55:18
  They're going through basic TV genres almost.
• 1:55:20
  You know, you've got the news in there, you've got the thriller
• 1:55:22
  genre in there, you've got Top of the Pops in there in that
• 1:55:25
  nightclub. It's it's covering all the
• 1:55:28
  bases. Even if something like Dojo
• 1:55:32
  wanted to go to the hottest night club in town is clearly a
• 1:55:35
  line written by a middle-aged man, for God's sake.
• 1:55:38
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 1:55:41
  It sounds just like Dodo, though let's be honest, the Dodo.
• 1:55:44
  We know she sounded like a middle-aged woman throughout
• 1:55:47
  the. Entire.
• 1:55:48
  Season Hamish has been inconsistent over 5 episodes
• 1:55:52
  five stories, so yes. Except the toy maker, where she
• 1:55:56
  sounded really bloody dense. Oh just wait.
• 1:55:59
  Well then other ones comes up. And I do think Fraser had a part
• 1:56:03
  about the plot logic because it is just things happening which
• 1:56:07
  don't connect. It's as hard at the start.
• 1:56:10
  It's such a style, John. How?
• 1:56:13
  How does know what a TARDIS is come up?
• 1:56:15
  There is no way a computer knows what a TARDIS is.
• 1:56:18
  He's the cleverest computer of all time.
• 1:56:20
  Another episode and yes, yeah, Mebby's Mebby's vote on is from
• 1:56:26
  the Planet of the Savages, you know, and he's got the iPlayer
• 1:56:28
  as well, so he's been keeping up with Doctor Who on the iPlayer.
• 1:56:31
  You know, it's given us, John. It means every time you're in
• 1:56:34
  London and you go between streets and you suddenly see the
• 1:56:37
  Post Office tower, you know, you go vote on my God.
• 1:56:40
  Don't tell me you don't. No, no, you do.
• 1:56:42
  Talk, talking that. Is this the closest the TARDIS
• 1:56:44
  that ever landed to the Fitzroy Tavern?
• 1:56:47
  But very possibly yes. You know, it's it's it's showing
• 1:56:50
  the way, Harkness showing the way, whatever it is 15 years for
• 1:56:53
  Jeremy Bentham decided Evan should go there.
• 1:56:58
  Yeah. First modern series.
• 1:57:00
  And it's it's entirely contemporary.
• 1:57:03
  It's by by technical nowadays. It's historical because it's
• 1:57:07
  entire 1966. There's nothing.
• 1:57:09
  They're not trying to make a story that is science fiction.
• 1:57:14
  It's trying to be as grounded as possible.
• 1:57:16
  You know, you make allowances for the advanced technology.
• 1:57:19
  That's what happens in Doctor's universe.
• 1:57:23
  Yeah. Out of order.
• 1:57:24
  I love that side gag. And I love the way when they
• 1:57:27
  come back at the end as well, the Londoners just go, whatever,
• 1:57:30
  carry on. That's beautiful.
• 1:57:32
  It's like, who cares? Yeah.
• 1:57:36
  Ben and Polly was one of the first things I've written down.
• 1:57:39
  Annika Wills in particular is just.
• 1:57:42
  She brings such energy to the show.
• 1:57:45
  Jackie lay nothing. Right, John.
• 1:57:47
  Energy. Yeah, not.
• 1:57:50
  Late We all had miserable nights in a club and someone like that
• 1:57:54
  comes up to you. It's like, yeah, that would lift
• 1:57:56
  your night. She she would lift you.
• 1:57:59
  Totally on that, I bet. Yeah.
• 1:58:01
  Ben absolutely smacking that guy out.
• 1:58:04
  Fabulous. You know that guy's getting
• 1:58:06
  handy. Doctor Who is doing the Me Too
• 1:58:08
  stuff years before anyone else. It's there.
• 1:58:11
  It's gorgeous, Yeah. That all that groovy stuff in
• 1:58:16
  the nightclub. Love it.
• 1:58:17
  Kitty, you say? I would love a night out with
• 1:58:22
  her just yeah, see you see some of them, it's like send you send
• 1:58:27
  your good looking mate over. Cheering up Gorgeous and
• 1:58:30
  comparing Hartwell to a certain DJ.
• 1:58:32
  Oh my word. That's aged so, so well.
• 1:58:37
  Just be glad they didn't say his name.
• 1:58:42
  Oh dear. Yes.
• 1:58:44
  Otherwise would this be an iPlayer?
• 1:58:47
  Would they carry entirely? Yeah.
• 1:58:50
  I love Dodo being the doctor's secretary as well-being called
• 1:58:53
  that. We can call them all secretaries
• 1:58:55
  now. They're not companions, they're
• 1:58:56
  secretaries. I, I, I love, I think Michael
• 1:59:00
  Phelps. And quite apart from the jump
• 1:59:01
  cuts, he's got 2. The two big visual villains.
• 1:59:07
  It's Rotan and the Warmiches. They are not the most mobile
• 1:59:10
  things, for God's sake, but he shoots the hell out of them.
• 1:59:13
  He gives them some, some genuine threat and energy.
• 1:59:18
  I love that about it. Yeah.
• 1:59:21
  Part 3 cliffhanger. Everyone managed it because it's
• 1:59:24
  that good. It's it's, yeah, that visual
• 1:59:28
  moment where the Doctor steps into hero.
• 1:59:31
  It's a future coming and it's a future which I think obviously
• 1:59:35
  William Hartman can't necessarily do, even though I
• 1:59:40
  love him here. He's he's just got so much
• 1:59:42
  energy in that. Yeah, this is ultimately it's,
• 1:59:48
  it's the picture, Doctor. It's Jerry Davis looking at
• 1:59:52
  finding a new way to conceive a Doctor Who's story, just looking
• 1:59:55
  out the window and what's out there.
• 1:59:58
  Think, think of me something up there.
• 1:59:59
  Think of me a story of what could happen in there.
• 2:00:04
  And it, it's a new way of thinking about the show.
• 2:00:07
  It's inventing the Yeti on the loo story.
• 2:00:11
  And it's, yeah, it's got energy, it's got pace.
• 2:00:14
  The plot is bollocks. But I'm not too bothered about
• 2:00:18
  that given everything about this.
• 2:00:20
  It, it's fresh, it's, it's suggests the show's got a
• 2:00:23
  future. You need these people to rethink
• 2:00:25
  the show from time to time. So I am going to stick this one
• 2:00:29
  through yes. He is the very antithesis of me.
• 2:00:39
  Oh, really? Yes.
• 2:00:41
  Well, bring him in then. He might make some fucking
• 2:00:43
  sense. I did, I bloody did.
• 2:00:48
  It's all shut on him. You can't go.
• 2:00:52
  You just said it there. Shout on him.
• 2:00:54
  No one shot on him. You did apparently go on you.
• 2:01:03
  We come from murdering kids to shitting on kids in this
• 2:01:07
  podcast. The poor children.
• 2:01:09
  Well, no one think of the children please.
• 2:01:11
  Which was the episode you put them all in the gas chamber
• 2:01:14
  again. Oh, that was.
• 2:01:17
  Hungry. I was like, yeah, And then in
• 2:01:21
  Episode 2, when Eddie said something, I went, hang on, hold
• 2:01:24
  the gas chamber. Is there room for one more?
• 2:01:28
  Bless him, John didn't seem to mind me saying that about his
• 2:01:31
  son, funnily enough. OK, so we actually have a story
• 2:01:40
  gone through. It's a miracle.
• 2:01:43
  Yes. It's probably going to win it at
• 2:01:45
  this rate 0. God, yes, we.
• 2:01:48
  Should win at this rate. We're halfway through.
• 2:01:51
  What better time to find out what the listens make of this
• 2:01:55
  entire season? So we have Part 2 of the
• 2:02:00
  comments. Frasier, would you like to take
• 2:02:02
  the first one? Oh, I've got that fat fucker the
• 2:02:05
  Adipose lover to start off with. I hope you've got the joke there
• 2:02:09
  and realized I wasn't actually insulting the promise of that.
• 2:02:12
  Complaint. Because probably yes, but you
• 2:02:14
  know. It wasn't you're very self like
• 2:02:17
  actually adipose lover. It was it was a play on words,
• 2:02:20
  not a personal comment. So adipose lover says.
• 2:02:23
  Personally this bunch of stories are quite mediocre with Hartnell
• 2:02:26
  losing his whimsy and being constantly I'll with Stephen
• 2:02:29
  having overstayed his welcome and Dodo being wasted potential.
• 2:02:33
  Ben and Polly really don't do much so they aren't that
• 2:02:36
  important. Overall a hit or miss.
• 2:02:40
  A hit or miss bunch of stories to end a legendary era.
• 2:02:44
  What a grump. Hartnell Hartnell's.
• 2:02:47
  I'll once. Yeah, That's that's that's
• 2:02:50
  that's not constantly. If you were I'll once and, you
• 2:02:54
  know, if you had roast beef once in your life, you wouldn't say
• 2:02:56
  that you were constantly eating roast beef.
• 2:02:58
  Thank you, Fraser. That was just for you.
• 2:03:00
  Can I do Anthony Carroll, that psychotic violence lover.
• 2:03:03
  I just adore him. So of course you can.
• 2:03:06
  Hard to judge others due to missing episodes.
• 2:03:09
  Celestial feels boring. Absolutely right.
• 2:03:12
  Savages has an interesting concept and maybe a great
• 2:03:15
  surprise if found. Same with the smugglers.
• 2:03:19
  Maybe reasonable overall death count.
• 2:03:22
  It says he went out with a bang that would have shocked viewers.
• 2:03:26
  10th planet best of the lot, first base under siege story and
• 2:03:30
  spooky sized men. 8 out of 10. Then War Machines which is fun
• 2:03:34
  to look at and the future of Doctor Who but the machines a
• 2:03:37
  bit naff. 7 out of 10. Then the gunfighters equals does
• 2:03:42
  not do it for me. Too comedic. 5 out of 10.
• 2:03:47
  Think we'll come back to that. We have Daniel Rawnsley.
• 2:03:51
  It's far from being all over. Ha ha.
• 2:03:57
  But there's something quite poignant that the continual
• 2:03:59
  parade of new faces in front of or behind the cameras ultimately
• 2:04:03
  leaves Hartnell, out of all the show's original staff, as the
• 2:04:06
  last one standing. Rafa, Stephen, Yay Ben and Polly
• 2:04:11
  Dodo, we hardly knew you. Worth worth noticing that over
• 2:04:17
  Hartnell's entire run, he's been a writer of wrongs and fixture
• 2:04:20
  of things. In future set stories.
• 2:04:22
  They're swept along by the tides of history and the historicals,
• 2:04:25
  striving only for escape. This final clutch of stories
• 2:04:29
  sees something of a shift in the character stories and DW itself.
• 2:04:36
  Oh good, it's a long one, Steph. Destroyer of Worlds.
• 2:04:41
  Not my favorite run of Hartnell, but this chunk of stories is a
• 2:04:44
  marked turning point and there's a real window on the future of
• 2:04:46
  Doctor Who here. The Savages with its quarry
• 2:04:49
  setting and the celebrity dock fighting for truth and justice.
• 2:04:52
  That startling hero moment at the end of episode 3 of The War
• 2:04:55
  Machines, where the Doctor is all that stands in the way of
• 2:04:57
  the baddies here on present day Earth.
• 2:04:59
  That's the template for Pertwee right there.
• 2:05:01
  This is no longer a story about travelling through time just to
• 2:05:05
  take in the scenery and learn some science and history along
• 2:05:07
  the way. We're now watching the science
• 2:05:09
  fiction Lone Ranger, which is fine, it's what I fell in love
• 2:05:12
  with, but I think I preferred the adventure format that
• 2:05:15
  preceded it. We get, David, the more accurate
• 2:05:20
  you're getting with these. I've woken up.
• 2:05:22
  Yeah, we've got Gavin here now. I think Gavin's comment is a
• 2:05:29
  direct answer to a question which I think was how would you
• 2:05:34
  ask this? Which I think must have been
• 2:05:35
  something along the lines of, you know, how does Hartnell's
• 2:05:38
  our Send show in these stories? Stop showing Hartnell's our
• 2:05:41
  send. He says brilliantly he shows a
• 2:05:44
  little sign of his health issues other than missing 10th episode
• 2:05:48
  3. Gunfighters was a revelation
• 2:05:50
  when we first saw it. Ben and Polly give the Series A
• 2:05:53
  huge lift. Both criminally underrated
• 2:05:55
  actors. War Machines and 10th Plant are
• 2:05:57
  fabulous. Smugglers is fun but a lighter
• 2:06:00
  piece. Oh my word, an answer to a
• 2:06:04
  question that was asked to me in between our recording break.
• 2:06:07
  Dave Rennie says Hartnell send off his interesting to and
• 2:06:11
  unfortunately low key. Was it the Savages machine woe
• 2:06:15
  turns attack or Mondas that done him in in the end or all three?
• 2:06:20
  They say Mondas, but I think it was a slow after effect of the
• 2:06:23
  savages machine that ended the 1st doctor.
• 2:06:26
  Now you've got to include the time destructor as well in your
• 2:06:29
  list. Dave Rennie.
• 2:06:30
  OK, because that was the worst effects that he has in in his
• 2:06:34
  sort of last run. I think was being stabbed to
• 2:06:36
  death as the Abbott of Ambroise that really did it for him.
• 2:06:39
  It's got to cramp your lifestyle, wouldn't it?
• 2:06:43
  OK, Joe, take a moment. It's it's the show pin up.
• 2:06:46
  It's Mr. Paul Crasser. Oh man, oh man.
• 2:06:49
  OK, keep putting those pictures out.
• 2:06:51
  You know, just naked with the cut between your legs.
• 2:06:56
  He says that to all the boys. Don't worry, OK, poor Kresser.
• 2:07:00
  Quite a period of change, and not just the obvious one.
• 2:07:04
  From the whimsy of gun fighters and toy maker, my least favorite
• 2:07:07
  classic story, to the pop sci-fi savages, a story that sounds
• 2:07:12
  amazing and tops my list of most wanting missing episodes to the
• 2:07:16
  war machines intense Planet 2 stories that take a massive leap
• 2:07:19
  forward and set the template for so much of it was to come.
• 2:07:23
  And they're both great, by the way.
• 2:07:26
  You always have to pity the poor old smug with the last gasp for
• 2:07:29
  the programs initial premise sandwiched between these giants.
• 2:07:33
  But it still has a lot going for it, not least the wonderful Ben
• 2:07:37
  and Polly who bring a whole new energy to the series.
• 2:07:41
  Is it me? Am I on?
• 2:07:42
  Who's on whatever reliable James Lark.
• 2:07:48
  These mark the end of a tumultuous time in the
• 2:07:50
  production office and hint at the direction the more settled
• 2:07:52
  future we'll take. And whilst I obviously wouldn't
• 2:07:54
  wish the Doctor Who team an unhappy time, it's a shame that
• 2:07:57
  the wildly imaginative outgoing era is replaced by a less
• 2:08:01
  interesting formula. And that just leaves me to wrap
• 2:08:06
  up these comments with you and Morris, who says big bold swings
• 2:08:10
  to the last three years in War Machines establishes what a
• 2:08:14
  standard Doctor Who story looks like, 10th Planet establishes
• 2:08:17
  the mechanism for the show to last another 6 decades, and Gun
• 2:08:21
  Fighters established that the opinions of organised fandom are
• 2:08:24
  frequently a load of bollocks. See.
• 2:08:26
  Any wonder I'll keep having your Morris back on.
• 2:08:29
  Listen to the sense that he talks.
• 2:08:32
  Why? Right.
• 2:08:33
  All right, so my turn to choose a story.
• 2:08:36
  So what? We got left, we got two
• 2:08:39
  historical or three historicals. They are now I will take you
• 2:08:43
  back to Cornwall in the 18th century and I am going to
• 2:08:50
  champion the smugglers. I, I always go into this, forget
• 2:08:57
  it because the story surrounding it, as was said in comments,
• 2:09:02
  they are all kind of big stories.
• 2:09:05
  You know, you've got Stephen leaving, you've got Ben and
• 2:09:07
  Polly Jordan, you've got Dodo leaving, you've got Hartnell
• 2:09:09
  leaving. So this fall, this is just kind
• 2:09:13
  of this light, ordinary moment in the middle of these big kind
• 2:09:19
  of model, what would become monoliths of Who, particularly
• 2:09:22
  with the kind of weight of Doctor Who history around them.
• 2:09:25
  And the thing with kind of these light stories is we do end up
• 2:09:30
  undervaluing them because they're not trying to be
• 2:09:33
  significant. They are trying to entertain.
• 2:09:36
  This is kind of one of the last cast of Doctor Who's historical.
• 2:09:41
  And the reason these historicals work is that you get in a ton of
• 2:09:46
  character actors and you let them have fun.
• 2:09:51
  And that's what's so good about this story, the characters,
• 2:09:56
  Michael Godfrey as Michael Godfrey, his performance here,
• 2:10:02
  he knows what he's playing. He knows this is this terrible
• 2:10:05
  pirate, and yet he manages to be both sinister and and kind of
• 2:10:13
  exactly right for the genre. So it's not he's pitched it
• 2:10:17
  perfectly. George Cooper giving everyone a
• 2:10:20
  taste of Tommy Tickler there. Or is it the touch of an Angel
• 2:10:24
  with that blade? He's he's brilliant.
• 2:10:27
  He comes in and it's it's also the difference.
• 2:10:30
  He brings that beautiful threat round.
• 2:10:33
  Hartnell is feeding off this. He's energized again.
• 2:10:37
  You can tell this he's absolutely enjoying the hell out
• 2:10:42
  of it. You know, the way he does when
• 2:10:44
  he gets the playoff character, as you know, in the Romans, in
• 2:10:47
  the myth makers, you know, even in the gunfighters it brings out
• 2:10:51
  it's it's like Tom Baker. You give him someone who he
• 2:10:56
  thinks is as good as or better than him.
• 2:10:59
  He raises that game again, he he gives it an energy.
• 2:11:03
  And again, this combination, I think you mentioned it in the
• 2:11:06
  War Machines, Joe, Ben and Polly, it's it's, you know,
• 2:11:10
  those scenes with, oh, they've gone into the past and they
• 2:11:14
  don't realise it. They they're really nicely
• 2:11:17
  played. They could be such dull,
• 2:11:20
  terrible scenes, but they work. I know part of the thing we have
• 2:11:26
  with this is we don't have much to see from it.
• 2:11:30
  I would love this to come back because I want us.
• 2:11:32
  This would be worth come back because of that location for
• 2:11:36
  because of how different it's going to be to see Hartnell in
• 2:11:39
  that kind of extensive on the outdoors seeing how he plays all
• 2:11:43
  that Paul Woodson Jones is a squad again and as as David
• 2:11:48
  would know that I appreciate the same for the same reason to be
• 2:11:51
  the revenue men are heroes here. It's it's they are the men of
• 2:11:55
  the righteous men absolutely beautiful.
• 2:11:59
  Yeah, it's just one of those kind of perfectly summary
• 2:12:04
  stories. It's the last kind of gasp of
• 2:12:07
  what made that heart lira so good, so fun.
• 2:12:13
  It, you know, there's what we've got the restorative powers of
• 2:12:15
  Brandy here as well. There's a lot of drinking going
• 2:12:17
  on in this story. Oh, it's I I know it might at
• 2:12:23
  the end, you might go. This is really, really
• 2:12:25
  predictable with the ending, with the pirates falling out
• 2:12:27
  over the treasure. But it's it's more a genre story
• 2:12:31
  than historical, you know, it's it's in.
• 2:12:33
  I think they said the the Doctor Singh novels is, is a key or
• 2:12:36
  Poldark, that wild kind of Cornish coast.
• 2:12:40
  So, yeah, I, I think we undervalue completely the value
• 2:12:45
  of a light story, which just gives us room to breathe while
• 2:12:50
  the show completely changed around it and remind you of what
• 2:12:53
  was so glorious about this era. I, I went into this kind of
• 2:12:58
  going, I don't know what I'm going to do with it.
• 2:13:00
  I came up going, this is one of the first stories I want to see
• 2:13:04
  back. I want to see all the
• 2:13:05
  historicals back essentially. And this is now right up there,
• 2:13:09
  the energy, the performances. I would like to recommend the
• 2:13:14
  smugglers go through. Shall I start with the comments?
• 2:13:20
  If you will start with. Andy Parkinson is in complete
• 2:13:24
  disagreement as smugglers. Just bin it and save yourself
• 2:13:28
  the time. OK, I'll come next then.
• 2:13:35
  Chris Curtis. Like savages, I think this could
• 2:13:38
  be more interesting than we think.
• 2:13:40
  The recovered footages snap shows some real darkness and I
• 2:13:43
  think Ben and Polly add more character for companions and
• 2:13:46
  play an active role. I'll go next because it's a
• 2:13:49
  short 1 bad poets and says I literally don't remember this
• 2:13:55
  bin so how can you bin it if you don't remember it?
• 2:13:59
  Oh, Fraser's got the long one. Yeah, I'll take one for the team
• 2:14:02
  and read out Jason Thompson's epic.
• 2:14:05
  It's probably longer than all the combined Poldoc novels them.
• 2:14:09
  Worse than death, Jason Thompson comment.
• 2:14:12
  Off you go. The smugglers is a weird one.
• 2:14:14
  Yes, there is smuggling, obviously an exercise, exercise,
• 2:14:18
  exercise. The main plot is a pirate's
• 2:14:23
  treasure hunt hook, haunted captain and all.
• 2:14:26
  It's almost like someone realized that tale of illicit
• 2:14:29
  efforts to avoid taxation didn't really make for exciting
• 2:14:32
  adventure story for tea time. It's a shame it's missing,
• 2:14:35
  because it's actually pretty good and deserves far more
• 2:14:37
  appreciation than it gets. It's a mark of how poorly these
• 2:14:40
  latest stories were considered that everyone believed Heart
• 2:14:43
  will fluff the Riddle, even though dialogue makes it
• 2:14:46
  perfectly clear he has it right. That username says boring, but
• 2:14:53
  if it existed it'd probably be pretty enjoyable.
• 2:14:59
  Michael Storm. Is he my name, sister?
• 2:15:03
  Let's find out. Well performed, but I can never
• 2:15:06
  recall too much about it. Except Hartnell doesn't get the
• 2:15:09
  rhyme wrong. Everyone's emphatic about that.
• 2:15:13
  Justice for Hartnell. Oh.
• 2:15:16
  Adipose Lover Smugglers is a forgettable piece of Doctor Who,
• 2:15:20
  being a boring historical in a time where historical stories
• 2:15:24
  were practically finished. Why do I keep ending up with
• 2:15:29
  this bloody cat toy makers cat? Where is the love for this one?
• 2:15:37
  Often at the bottom of people's lists, but I really enjoy it.
• 2:15:41
  It's not perfect and it's not one I watch a lot, but it's
• 2:15:43
  pirates and treasure and a Riddle.
• 2:15:45
  What's not the love? I also like Cherub and Pake and
• 2:15:48
  it's lovely to see John Ringham again.
• 2:15:51
  Simon for a gulp. I love her short.
• 2:15:53
  Mine are enjoyable theatrical period shenanigans.
• 2:15:58
  Cliff Chapman, Equally brief Smugglers needs an animation.
• 2:16:03
  Fun early stuff, difficult to follow later as it is.
• 2:16:06
  Sorry, David, it's I have to do this quietly.
• 2:16:13
  Can have a big big. It's.
• 2:16:24
  Like ERISA more Jesus. That fanfare was superb.
• 2:16:29
  The target novel is good, but I find details of this one keeps
• 2:16:32
  sliding right out of my memory even 2 minutes after I've
• 2:16:37
  watched it or listened to it. It's very awkward when things
• 2:16:41
  slide out your memory, isn't it? Can you find when you get older?
• 2:16:48
  The thing is, the way that I think there's a typo because it
• 2:16:50
  actually says detail, this one keeps sliding right out of me.
• 2:16:53
  And. Then there would memories on the
• 2:16:56
  next line, so I'm glad I spotted that because that's it me next.
• 2:17:00
  Is it me next? Is it Fraser?
• 2:17:02
  It's Fraser next. I think it's me to finish off
• 2:17:06
  with Matlin. UBC and Smugglers is a more
• 2:17:08
  traditional historical romp than anything we've had before, owing
• 2:17:12
  to more romantic fiction than historical fact.
• 2:17:15
  It's a fun tale though, and a great start for Polly and Ben.
• 2:17:21
  Nice. Well, my my, this mysterious
• 2:17:24
  Eddie character says literally the silence of Doctor Who.
• 2:17:27
  As soon as you go away from it, you forget it.
• 2:17:30
  I'd say Bennett, but you've probably already forgotten
• 2:17:32
  existed while reading this comment.
• 2:17:35
  I've forgotten your comment as well, Eddie.
• 2:17:36
  You're you're wrong. Out of it, you're disinherited.
• 2:17:40
  Go Joe, what do you think of the smugglers?
• 2:17:45
  Oh so boring. Jesus Christ this is the other
• 2:17:47
  one. I really don't like this this
• 2:17:49
  half season. I don't.
• 2:17:51
  He's right. I don't remember a bloody thing
• 2:17:53
  about this story when I watch it and listen to it, it all just
• 2:17:58
  falls out of my head the second I turn it off.
• 2:18:01
  You know, you all those were banging on about racism earlier,
• 2:18:04
  but the black character in this story that is both a slave and
• 2:18:08
  murdered horribly there's that is far more problematic to me
• 2:18:13
  than anything that's going on in the savages.
• 2:18:15
  That scene is horrible at. Least we've got a black actor in
• 2:18:19
  a speaking role. Yeah, and he's literally, you
• 2:18:21
  see him wiping blood off of his fucking thing and then it's
• 2:18:26
  thrown in his face and he's got a look of absolute horror.
• 2:18:29
  It's just horrible. I really don't like that the
• 2:18:34
  actual smuggling plot is pretty laboured and dull.
• 2:18:37
  Like, you know, the, the what's it called, the rhyme that gets
• 2:18:41
  into the right place, the gravestones trying to find the
• 2:18:45
  treasure. It's all the boring.
• 2:18:47
  And I just don't like pirate stories at all.
• 2:18:49
  So this I'm not the audience for this at all.
• 2:18:53
  I don't like. Audiences for fun people.
• 2:18:55
  I don't. It's not fun at all though, is
• 2:18:57
  the trouble. I don't like Polly and Ben when
• 2:19:00
  they're in the cell doing that witchcraft stuff with this.
• 2:19:03
  It's really horrible, man. Poor old Tom, is it?
• 2:19:06
  Is that his name? Tom.
• 2:19:08
  Yeah. I feel really sorry for him.
• 2:19:10
  They're going. You're going to be cursed.
• 2:19:13
  Told me. He's like, oh, no, please don't,
• 2:19:15
  Don't hurt me, Mr. Blessing. The poor old peasant.
• 2:19:20
  On the other hand, I think the location work and the sets are
• 2:19:22
  clearly gorgeous. You can see that in the telly
• 2:19:24
  snaps. Hartnell was having the time of
• 2:19:26
  his life. You know, I like all this stuff.
• 2:19:28
  Let us talk of men of the world. Be elegant with dignity, you
• 2:19:33
  know? He's clearly having great fun
• 2:19:35
  doing this. And of course Ben takes his top
• 2:19:37
  off in this story, which John Cura, thank fuck, snapped his
• 2:19:42
  camera at just the right moment so we could see his nipples.
• 2:19:45
  Thank God. But you know, I just find this
• 2:19:49
  so boring. Might put on the soundtrack for
• 2:19:50
  us to listen to this week. And I better sleep during every
• 2:19:54
  episode. I was so bored.
• 2:19:57
  It's a lack of music you think doesn't help, no.
• 2:19:59
  I just, I just don't think it hasn't really got any energy to
• 2:20:03
  it. I don't think.
• 2:20:05
  I think the actors are trying to give it a bit of life, but it's
• 2:20:08
  just sort of plodding. I think as a as a excuse to get
• 2:20:14
  rid of the historicals. You could absolutely point at
• 2:20:16
  the smugglers and the Highlanders and say, yeah, do
• 2:20:20
  you know what? They've kind of had their day.
• 2:20:22
  They probably haven't because we've just had the myth makers
• 2:20:24
  and the gunfires, and they're both fabulous.
• 2:20:26
  Oh, spoiler. But yeah, no, I don't like this.
• 2:20:29
  Been it. Shocking.
• 2:20:34
  All right, David, what do you make of the smokers?
• 2:20:37
  Is Joe talking sounds or nonsense?
• 2:20:39
  He's. Talking.
• 2:20:41
  He's talking nonsense because this is fun.
• 2:20:46
  We got mad. He is.
• 2:20:48
  We're all mad, but some of the comments touched on this, This
• 2:20:53
  is a story that's it is hard to know and it somebody said it's
• 2:20:57
  sort of it's out your memory within 5 seconds.
• 2:21:00
  And I kind of get that because for years I was I was at the
• 2:21:02
  same you would, you know, back in the day when you get you tell
• 2:21:06
  a snap recons. And the first one I had that it
• 2:21:09
  was one of the very early ones. There's no subtitles or anything
• 2:21:12
  like that. So basically you just have the
• 2:21:14
  telesnap and a slightly ropy soundtrack.
• 2:21:17
  And the quality of the tape I had was so bad that any time
• 2:21:19
  there was any large amounts of white in the telesnap, the
• 2:21:22
  picture buzzed. So it just it was really
• 2:21:26
  difficult to watch. And it's like, I don't know
• 2:21:28
  what's going on in this story. The lack of music really doesn't
• 2:21:32
  help it. And I don't know whether or not
• 2:21:34
  I haven't seen many other TV shows kind of adaptations in
• 2:21:38
  that Treasure Island and all the things that sort of based upon
• 2:21:41
  whether or not that's a stylistic thing, that's a
• 2:21:43
  deliberate choice or that's how those similar types of
• 2:21:46
  productions might have been. I don't know.
• 2:21:48
  There's a definite reason why you'd say let's have no music.
• 2:21:52
  But there's was couple things recently that I start to
• 2:21:56
  reappraise it. We're Doctor Who fans.
• 2:21:58
  My husband always makes fun saying is that what you fans
• 2:22:00
  always do is that you spend all the time reappraising things.
• 2:22:03
  You can't just accept if you like it or not.
• 2:22:04
  You have to watch it again because I might change my mind.
• 2:22:07
  And I did because as I do, and I did this with celestial toy
• 2:22:12
  maker as well. I've tried to do it with most of
• 2:22:13
  the the soundtracks is I have watched it with yes, the camera
• 2:22:16
  script, because that's the best way to try and visualize,
• 2:22:20
  particularly when you've got telesnaps.
• 2:22:21
  That makes it a lot easier of it's not just there's a shot,
• 2:22:24
  there's a shot. It's what would the deal with
• 2:22:26
  the cameras? What was actually being shown?
• 2:22:28
  So you listen to the soundtrack and there's there's a bit
• 2:22:30
  episode 1 where they've had the location film and they're
• 2:22:34
  clearly in the studio and it's just studio sound.
• 2:22:36
  And if you're watching Recon, it's just got the picture of the
• 2:22:39
  Doctor, Ben and Polly standing in the graveyard.
• 2:22:42
  What that doesn't show you is there's actually, it starts on a
• 2:22:44
  close up of the gravestone and it pulls back as they walk into
• 2:22:46
  all the sort of movement is completely lost.
• 2:22:48
  So when you're looking through the scripts, you start to get a
• 2:22:50
  better idea of how they might have looked.
• 2:22:54
  So and it carries you through and it has sort of helped.
• 2:22:57
  We ain't got time to be doing that for God's sakes.
• 2:23:01
  Well, let me do it. And.
• 2:23:02
  Then have his fun. This is, this is my hobby.
• 2:23:06
  And also, you know, I'm, I'm educating.
• 2:23:09
  I, you know, I think we're good. We went to do a commentary on
• 2:23:12
  this at some point. Actually, I've got my work cut
• 2:23:13
  out. For me on this one.
• 2:23:16
  But there's a lot going for it. But, and I'm going to borrow an
• 2:23:21
  argument for one of my illustrious colleagues.
• 2:23:23
  So obviously I have a husband who is a casual doctor fan and
• 2:23:28
  for some reason watching this and it's like put a missing
• 2:23:32
  episode soundtrack when we're going.
• 2:23:33
  We were driving down was when we were driving down to Brighton a
• 2:23:36
  few months ago. So it's like just put a story
• 2:23:39
  on. So I put on the smugglers
• 2:23:40
  because. He.
• 2:23:41
  Some for some reason he's like, I just want to hear.
• 2:23:43
  I'm interested. I like Ben and Paulie.
• 2:23:44
  I like the first Doctor. And he was like, that's
• 2:23:47
  brilliant. That's really good.
• 2:23:48
  So my husband really likes it. So that's a valid reason
• 2:23:51
  apparently for things going through supposedly valid
• 2:23:55
  critical reason. Yeah, it's it's fun.
• 2:23:58
  I think John, Captain Pike I think is a underrated villain.
• 2:24:02
  It's one of those ones if we, if we had it, if it was existing,
• 2:24:05
  if we get an animation, I think that's a character that would
• 2:24:08
  get talked about more. Would you even remember about
• 2:24:10
  Captain Pike? He's got a hook and he's a
• 2:24:15
  bastard. He's a pundit.
• 2:24:18
  He's a pundit. OK, so you're naming the two
• 2:24:20
  cliches of the genre. Anything else?
• 2:24:24
  He wants to know. Because there's fuck all to him,
• 2:24:26
  that's why. He's a gentleman.
• 2:24:28
  With that role, Michael Goff is. Great.
• 2:24:32
  And the. Golf.
• 2:24:34
  And anyhow, just to confirm, David, yes, having a partner
• 2:24:37
  that likes a story is a very good, valid reason for putting
• 2:24:39
  it through, as Joe demonstrated with the Savages.
• 2:24:43
  No, I mean, I was taking the piss, but OK.
• 2:24:47
  My last read is the Doctor's unofficial story arc.
• 2:24:50
  So we've had it in, we have it in Savages, we have it Elsa,
• 2:24:55
  when we meet the 1st Doctor, you know, especially in the
• 2:24:57
  dialects, he's quite happy to fuck off and leave the files to
• 2:25:00
  their to their fate. But now he actually says I have
• 2:25:03
  a moral obligation to stay, so it's like.
• 2:25:09
  It's brilliant. OK.
• 2:25:13
  He he, you know, we saw his indignation in the Savages.
• 2:25:15
  We see a bit of it again in the Gunfighters where he's like,
• 2:25:18
  he's having to uphold law and order and here we are again.
• 2:25:22
  This is the Doctor becoming the moral centre of the series and
• 2:25:24
  becoming a hero proper. So yes, they didn't plan this.
• 2:25:27
  This is one of those things where people will say, oh, it's
• 2:25:29
  his story. They didn't plan it.
• 2:25:31
  It's kind of by accident, but what a nice happy accident it
• 2:25:34
  is. So yeah, it's a win for me and
• 2:25:37
  yeah, I'm being, I'm positive now.
• 2:25:43
  God, heaven slime me. Where did all this come from?
• 2:25:47
  Oh, it was a police box, weren't it?
• 2:25:48
  What are you posting here? You dropped your keys.
• 2:25:51
  Oh, Joe, you follow me into the TARDIS.
• 2:25:53
  The what? The TARDIS, Sir, this is a
• 2:25:55
  vessel for traveling through time and space.
• 2:25:58
  Why did you follow me? I'm I'm terribly sorry if we've
• 2:26:01
  annoyed you, Doctor. It was my fault, I'm afraid.
• 2:26:03
  Let's. Stand back from those controls.
• 2:26:06
  Those controls are used for dematerializing.
• 2:26:09
  Dematerializing. What does that mean?
• 2:26:11
  You and this young lady are experiencing it.
• 2:26:15
  You are now travelling through time and space.
• 2:26:18
  Yeah, well, make sure I get that by tea time, Doctor.
• 2:26:21
  I've got to get back on the ship by the night.
• 2:26:22
  Young man, it's going to be a long time before you see your
• 2:26:25
  ship again. Why?
• 2:26:26
  When are we going to land? I don't know that's the cause of
• 2:26:29
  half my trouble through my journeys.
• 2:26:32
  I never know. I'm not.
• 2:26:33
  I have no control over where I land.
• 2:26:36
  Neither can I choose the period in which I land in.
• 2:26:40
  Now you see that scanner? That is what I call the scanner
• 2:26:43
  up there. We get a very good view from the
• 2:26:45
  outside. Yes, I think we've landed in
• 2:26:53
  some sort of caves. Yeah, well, thanks to the young
• 2:26:56
  movies Doctor. Now if you just open.
• 2:26:57
  The way way Jangnan, we don't know where we are, we don't know
• 2:27:01
  if it's safe for what period we're in.
• 2:27:03
  Well, I'll take a little bet with you, right?
• 2:27:04
  London, 1966. Fitzroy Square.
• 2:27:07
  Yes, I think it's quite normal. Yes, the temperature's all
• 2:27:10
  right. Yeah, I think you can leave, but
• 2:27:14
  watch your step was. Your relief.
• 2:27:17
  You have been nervous for a minute, Doctor.
• 2:27:20
  Come on then. Oh dear, all this distraction
• 2:27:24
  and I really thought I was going to be alone again.
• 2:27:31
  OK, we have one of the scariest situations in all the strictly
• 2:27:34
  occurring. We have Fraser with a casting
• 2:27:38
  vote. God knows what is going to
• 2:27:40
  happen here. Always going for.
• 2:27:43
  God knows. Have none of you has listened to
• 2:27:46
  us before? We all know this is going
• 2:27:47
  through. Of course it's going through.
• 2:27:49
  I'm not like the top 60. I know the top 60 are going
• 2:27:52
  through, but the rest of. Them he has a punch on for
• 2:27:55
  boring Doctor Who, don't worry. I'm glad that two other people
• 2:27:58
  on this call are fun just like me, not like the wizard old crew
• 2:28:03
  and at the top there and this, this is this story.
• 2:28:08
  I cannot for the life of me believe that this story comes
• 2:28:12
  one week after the war machines. The gulf in quality in the
• 2:28:16
  writing from, you know, the last part of the war machines to this
• 2:28:21
  is just it's, it's, it reminds us of of of season 25 when, you
• 2:28:26
  know, we go from the end of season 24 into season 25 and you
• 2:28:28
  think I'm missing a season there.
• 2:28:30
  You know, there's, you know, it's, it's, it's that big a jump
• 2:28:35
  in quality and. The way it's Brian Hales, isn't
• 2:28:40
  it? Ice Warriors Celestial toymaker.
• 2:28:43
  Why don't you get on your knees and give him a suck job for
• 2:28:46
  God's sakes? You love him, don't.
• 2:28:47
  You. I think he's been dead quite a
• 2:28:49
  while or something. Dallas writer of Doctor Who.
• 2:28:51
  Of course you love him. This is his redeeming.
• 2:28:54
  Story. We don't think it is John.
• 2:28:58
  No. You know, it is interesting
• 2:29:01
  though, isn't it, that there's like basically there's black
• 2:29:04
  rates, 2:00-ish one like 2:00-ish.
• 2:29:10
  And you know, bright hills are the 2 two of the best ones, even
• 2:29:13
  though one of us was anyhow, we're getting sidetracked.
• 2:29:16
  We're getting sidetracked. This is it's a it's it's a
• 2:29:19
  really good sort of reboot. This one.
• 2:29:21
  It's really good, sort of like, you know, season opener where
• 2:29:25
  everything just kind of gets explained.
• 2:29:27
  You know, if you're coming in, just watching this after a
• 2:29:29
  couple of months off coming back in, you know, everything's just
• 2:29:33
  laid out for you there. The the central premise of the
• 2:29:35
  show, everything, you know, it's obviously explained to Ben and
• 2:29:39
  Polly, so it's explained to you as well.
• 2:29:40
  So it's really good jumping on point to get behind Doctor Who
• 2:29:46
  again, I think the vibe of the story really appeals to me.
• 2:29:53
  We talked about this in the myth make as when we discussed that
• 2:29:57
  in the the first part. You know, this is just a period
• 2:29:59
  of history that I just really enjoy.
• 2:30:02
  It's completely unrepresented in in most of fiction.
• 2:30:05
  So to have this story set here is is is brilliant, but just
• 2:30:10
  everything that's going on, pirates, puzzles, dodgy Squires,
• 2:30:13
  steadfast revenue, man, it's all just great fun, isn't it?
• 2:30:19
  Now, I think Ben and Polly, I think this is a much better
• 2:30:25
  showing for Ben and Polly and what they can do as companions
• 2:30:27
  than the war machines is. Ben obviously is just Cockney,
• 2:30:31
  Steven, so he's just as exasperated and he's just as
• 2:30:33
  much running around shouting at everyone, but he's cockney and
• 2:30:36
  obviously takes his top off, so everyone makes him a bit more.
• 2:30:38
  But then you've got Polly, who is this sort of combination of
• 2:30:43
  Barbara and Susan Bobbin, if you will.
• 2:30:46
  So she's sort of like, she's really peppy and she's plucky
• 2:30:49
  and just clever and she's assertive.
• 2:30:50
  Like Barbara when when she needs to be, but she can also scream
• 2:30:54
  to the camera and for the audience.
• 2:30:56
  Like Susan when she needs to. Be the whole story screaming.
• 2:31:00
  Right. Who?
• 2:31:00
  Who figures out how to get out of the cell and that scene that
• 2:31:03
  you don't like but everyone else does?
• 2:31:06
  Or by patronizing us A primitive yes.
• 2:31:09
  Who is it? Sorry which I can't.
• 2:31:11
  Remember, because I forgot on every detail about this dull
• 2:31:14
  story. We're not going till you tell us
• 2:31:16
  the name, not going to bed till we.
• 2:31:18
  Talk go in then, are we? It's Polly.
• 2:31:21
  Yeah. So.
• 2:31:23
  And just I think a fresh event. Breath, breath, fresh air.
• 2:31:27
  It's just so much nicer than Dodo, you know, skipping across
• 2:31:30
  the rocks, enjoying. No ways are she has a habit of
• 2:31:33
  patronizing historical people. Remember how awful she was to
• 2:31:36
  Kirsty as well? But we're not talking about that
• 2:31:39
  one cow that. She is.
• 2:31:41
  We're not talking about that one because Rod.
• 2:31:44
  So we'll carry on discussing how great Ben and Polly are.
• 2:31:48
  I think you know everything you guys said about the war machines
• 2:31:52
  for this too, is is is entirely true, but I really like it more
• 2:31:56
  here. And the third reason is is going
• 2:31:59
  to be heart and all again. And yes, there is a big Billy
• 2:32:04
  fluff in this episode and it's not the Riddle we know.
• 2:32:08
  Everyone knows that it's the other actor that gets the the
• 2:32:11
  Riddle wrong. It's not Hartnell.
• 2:32:13
  And but I love his one at the very start where he says to Ben,
• 2:32:17
  look up there at that scanner. I call it the scanner.
• 2:32:21
  It's proper creature from the pit.
• 2:32:23
  And I absolutely love it. But the really fascinating thing
• 2:32:26
  for me here is like, like I say, we've got this massive gulf.
• 2:32:29
  We've got this change. It's they gave us has really got
• 2:32:32
  a handle now he knows what he wants to do with the character.
• 2:32:34
  So essentially this is Hartnell playing the second Doctor.
• 2:32:39
  You know, you've got a little bit of a change.
• 2:32:41
  He's much more. He's really mischievous, but
• 2:32:44
  you've got that morality in it as well.
• 2:32:47
  You know that Davis wants his character to have a real moral
• 2:32:50
  core, but he need, he wants them to just Dick around a little bit
• 2:32:53
  as well. So you have Hartnell with the
• 2:32:55
  cards, you know, in the boat, you know, tricking Jamaica so we
• 2:33:01
  can escape. That's a really fun scene.
• 2:33:04
  And it's just so interesting to see Hartnell playing what
• 2:33:08
  essentially Troughton could have played, but given a completely
• 2:33:10
  different reading of and Hartnell doing that there.
• 2:33:13
  And, you know, this is this is pretty much him before the end.
• 2:33:17
  You know, he, he, he, he records this.
• 2:33:19
  He goes off, you know, he doesn't come back.
• 2:33:21
  He comes back to the 10th planet.
• 2:33:22
  But by that point, he is, you know, quite quite poorly.
• 2:33:25
  But you wouldn't really think it.
• 2:33:27
  He still got that to think we still got that magic.
• 2:33:29
  If we could see this, I think we'd enjoy it a lot more.
• 2:33:32
  Obviously, Julia Smith, the director, you know, we don't
• 2:33:36
  know what she's doing with this. We know she does Underwater
• 2:33:39
  menace, isn't it after this? So, you know, so you can get a
• 2:33:42
  kind of feel for how she would approach this.
• 2:33:44
  Obviously annoying a leading actor, but at the same time, you
• 2:33:48
  know, you get the best out of people when you do that.
• 2:33:50
  So this is a massive, massive keep for me.
• 2:33:54
  I agree with everything that, you know, John said.
• 2:33:56
  It's so underrated, but it's so much fun.
• 2:33:58
  Keep, keep, keep. Keep.
• 2:34:01
  Astonishing, all of you. We've got a round two what
• 2:34:06
  you're talking about. We can actually get the camp
• 2:34:08
  music. What?
• 2:34:10
  What more do you want? We've got two stories that have
• 2:34:12
  gone through Huzzah. Yeah, pipe down from police.
• 2:34:19
  All righty well. Surprises me nowhere that Fraser
• 2:34:22
  loves the two drearier stories of this bunch we haven't got.
• 2:34:28
  Those, yeah. Anyway, we are going back to
• 2:34:31
  David and you have your choice of tombstone or Antarctica.
• 2:34:36
  Think of the one this time of year.
• 2:34:40
  Oh. This is tough because OK, I.
• 2:34:44
  AM. I'm going to go out to bat for
• 2:34:46
  the gunfighters because this is another story that was on the
• 2:34:51
  receive again, to fathom wisdom for years.
• 2:34:53
  It was the shit one. It was the shit Western with the
• 2:34:57
  bad accents. That nobody.
• 2:34:58
  Liked. And then I saw it, and this
• 2:35:03
  isn't one of those. Oh, I came, I saw it.
• 2:35:05
  I thought, this isn't so much better.
• 2:35:07
  It's not perfect. Let's cars on the table.
• 2:35:11
  Some of those accents are terrible.
• 2:35:14
  The Clanton brothers have some of the worst American accents,
• 2:35:19
  particularly Billy, who keeps slipping into RP at times and
• 2:35:23
  going after holiday. It's just time to hear the
• 2:35:26
  accents in the smugglers. I mean, some of those are pretty
• 2:35:29
  bad. I don't know.
• 2:35:32
  I've never been that. I don't know.
• 2:35:33
  I did. Maybe incredibly.
• 2:35:34
  Accurate, you know. David, it's like I'm there.
• 2:35:43
  It's like Captain Pike is in my living room.
• 2:35:47
  I'm on film our Tommy Tickler. Anyway, moving on very swiftly.
• 2:35:52
  So first reason for this it it's the comedy, but it is William
• 2:35:58
  Hart and all we've we've been one of the things we've all been
• 2:36:01
  doing is we've been kind of going out to bat for William
• 2:36:02
  Hart and all this is is the sort of dog end of his era.
• 2:36:06
  He's not always in every episode.
• 2:36:08
  He's not always I'll we'll refute that.
• 2:36:10
  He does just have he has a lot of holidays, but his comic
• 2:36:14
  timing in The Gunfighters is second to none.
• 2:36:18
  He is somebody, he's done sitcoms, he's done comedy.
• 2:36:20
  He knows how to time a joke. There is the scene in episode 1
• 2:36:28
  where you've got is given the gun by Holiday.
• 2:36:30
  He's with Kate and they're doing that whole bit of business where
• 2:36:33
  he's just been dumbfounded. I mean, pointed left to right
• 2:36:36
  with the gun and they're giving him all the the hat and
• 2:36:39
  everything. That's brilliant.
• 2:36:41
  Then episode 2 he's called in the Clanton boys gunpoint.
• 2:36:45
  Absolutely slightly clueless to what's going on.
• 2:36:48
  He is a little bit. Dim at times, but I don't care
• 2:36:52
  because he plays it so well. And then there's the whole
• 2:36:55
  business in the jail cell where he's doing this really rubbish
• 2:37:00
  thing with the gun. And then he kind of tries to
• 2:37:03
  show Mr. Werp, who's completely nonplussed, but he's still
• 2:37:06
  really pleased with himself. He's learned how to sort of
• 2:37:08
  flick a gun. He has the brilliant line of
• 2:37:11
  people do give me keep giving me guns, and I do wish they
• 2:37:13
  wouldn't. He's just on absolute fire.
• 2:37:18
  He is a delight to watch in this.
• 2:37:21
  You know, I'm afraid I don't touch alcohol, but.
• 2:37:24
  Little glass of milk. You know he's he's.
• 2:37:29
  I think a lot of actors say, you know, they found the science
• 2:37:32
  fiction things difficult to act against because it's the
• 2:37:35
  unknown. Put them in a historical
• 2:37:36
  setting, put them in a comedy historical setting, and the
• 2:37:39
  actors know what they're doing. And I think Hartnell nails it
• 2:37:43
  and he it is actually one of my favorite performances from it.
• 2:37:46
  I think it's just to keep saying go back to the same line.
• 2:37:50
  It's fun. It really is.
• 2:37:52
  Which connects to the script as well.
• 2:37:55
  This is Donald Cotton he's doing.
• 2:37:56
  It's not as lyrical, it's probably not as deep as the myth
• 2:38:00
  makers. I think it's a bit more
• 2:38:02
  straightforward, but it's just full of funny lines.
• 2:38:08
  You've got Doc Holiday who is funny and dangerous at the same
• 2:38:13
  time and he gets some really nice pithy 1 liners.
• 2:38:18
  I just think it's a great script and there's some wonderful.
• 2:38:22
  I've been hard on Stephen and Dota, I really have.
• 2:38:24
  But there's a great scene in Episode 1 where they're both
• 2:38:29
  chuckling away at the doctor's misfortune and he's like, oh, I
• 2:38:32
  hope he's not expecting an injection.
• 2:38:34
  And the hotel lounge. Rare does he think he is.
• 2:38:38
  They've just all these little lines, all this wonderful.
• 2:38:40
  It's a comedy and playing to their strengths.
• 2:38:42
  It's just such a great script. I haven't mentioned the ballad
• 2:38:46
  yet. I don't mind the ballad.
• 2:38:47
  I think, OK, by episode 4 it's getting a little bit a little
• 2:38:51
  bit grating, but no other story has done something like that.
• 2:38:54
  I don't think anything's done anything since, apart from me.
• 2:38:57
  Some portentous things in the sort of Stephen Moffat era, but
• 2:39:02
  punctuating your story with a ballad.
• 2:39:05
  What a. Brilliant idea.
• 2:39:07
  I think it's absolutely brilliant.
• 2:39:08
  I'm going to keep saying brilliant a lot and I think, OK,
• 2:39:13
  she might not be the sharpest tack in the box, but this is one
• 2:39:17
  of Dodo's best. Also one of maybe one of Jackie
• 2:39:20
  Lane's best outings. Yes, she she's incredibly
• 2:39:23
  gullible again, but she gets it perfectly.
• 2:39:28
  She does the comedy really well. That whole scene where she
• 2:39:32
  threatens Holiday to take her back to Tombstone and then she
• 2:39:36
  feigns at the end. Now, of course, it's a bit it's
• 2:39:38
  so obvious. Should I get hilarious, David, I
• 2:39:41
  shall have to shoot you. You see your arm, she does it so
• 2:39:46
  well. And I think if we'd had more
• 2:39:48
  dodo like we have in her latest stories, because I think she's
• 2:39:51
  quite well written in the Savages as well.
• 2:39:52
  So you said something positive about The Savages?
• 2:39:54
  Well done. She would be.
• 2:39:56
  Better thought of And yeah, so I'd just like to take a moment
• 2:40:00
  to champion Jackie Lane that when they bothered to give her a
• 2:40:02
  script and the character, whatever that, but something
• 2:40:06
  that as an actor, she could get her teeth into and do something
• 2:40:08
  with, she could show what she was capable of.
• 2:40:11
  So that's my case. For the gunfighters and the fact
• 2:40:17
  that we didn't do our own ballads tonight, I'm
• 2:40:21
  disappointed. But who's got time?
• 2:40:23
  I did, You did. I forgot it was hours ago.
• 2:40:31
  Blanked it out. Blame Fraser.
• 2:40:33
  We started late. That's why we're all so tired.
• 2:40:38
  You've interrupted every bloody 2 minutes.
• 2:40:42
  Wow, someone's got to point out how mad you people are.
• 2:40:47
  How about we go to more madness and let's have a look at the
• 2:40:51
  listener comments here. Joan, do you want to take the
• 2:40:54
  first one? Oh, am I allowed to speak, John,
• 2:40:56
  Thank you very much, The toy mate's cat says.
• 2:40:59
  This has got a lot of flap back in the day, but I think people
• 2:41:02
  are warming to it more and more, which is great.
• 2:41:05
  Historical inaccuracies aside, it's just great fun with
• 2:41:08
  brilliant lines and a fat performance by Hartnell.
• 2:41:11
  I know that tabock looks can get people's nerds, but I love it.
• 2:41:18
  That's the ballad of last child salute.
• 2:41:22
  OK Jason Thompson the gun fighters is enjoying a well
• 2:41:26
  deserved renaissance these days after decades of being told that
• 2:41:30
  those important published fan works that it was the worst of
• 2:41:34
  the lot. OK, yeah, accents of Brit often
• 2:41:37
  places but Hartwell is in fine. Vettel keep crazy.
• 2:41:42
  You better take the next one because David can't have this
• 2:41:44
  too late. Well, I can't hear that, but
• 2:41:47
  we'll we'll go for that drum roll.
• 2:41:50
  Please give me a big. Big.
• 2:41:54
  Orange. Orange.
• 2:41:56
  Orange, give me a Michael. Michael Big Orange, Michael
• 2:42:05
  says. In the 80s DWM told us it was
• 2:42:07
  awful, and yet I saw it in the 80s and I thought it was pretty
• 2:42:10
  good. The song wears out.
• 2:42:12
  It's welcomed by episode 4, but overall the story is subversive
• 2:42:15
  fun. Finally a comment that I'll get
• 2:42:20
  first time from username really far.
• 2:42:23
  Is it me? Oh yeah, Cliff Chapman says The
• 2:42:31
  Gunfighters is really, really good.
• 2:42:33
  Criminally underappreciated. Simon Threadgold, Smarter, more
• 2:42:40
  self aware and funnier than it gets credit for.
• 2:42:48
  Is it me? Oh, I'm back with the lovely
• 2:42:51
  Adipose lover who says something that sounds a bit deja, but we
• 2:42:56
  gunfighters attempts to do what the Romans succeeded in, and
• 2:42:59
  it's the only story to use dodo effectively.
• 2:43:03
  Andy Parkinson says just doesn't resonate, I'm sorry to say.
• 2:43:07
  Feels like a bit of a mess, something of a Marmite story.
• 2:43:10
  The song is catchy though. Bin it.
• 2:43:14
  Do not listen to this man. Chris Curtis says.
• 2:43:17
  Fun, quirky and a slow build to tragedy Owes a lot to the Romans
• 2:43:21
  and the myth makers. Stories that the actors seem to
• 2:43:24
  enjoy doing. That does count for a lot.
• 2:43:27
  I'm getting a lot of Daniel Rawnsley tonight, which is
• 2:43:30
  always a good thing. I like Western, so I like this.
• 2:43:34
  Does Dodo have a death wish? Look at her running out to Doc
• 2:43:37
  hardly in the middle of that climactic gunfight.
• 2:43:39
  The OK Corral 1 stray bullet and she might have ended up in
• 2:43:42
  another verse of The Ballad of the Last Chance of Loom.
• 2:43:45
  Which rules, by the way. Edward Galloway says gunfight.
• 2:43:53
  This is fun. Nowhere near as bad as people
• 2:43:55
  see. Mad Paddington, This was the
• 2:43:59
  first heart I saw after in the Beginning set so it's a hell of
• 2:44:02
  a gear change, but it's so much fun.
• 2:44:05
  Probably the best a lot of the regulars get given around this
• 2:44:08
  time, especially Jackie Lane, and there are a few better
• 2:44:10
  moments than the awful laugh that is from the plantains.
• 2:44:17
  Michael Storm says a witty script highlighting heartless
• 2:44:21
  comedy chops. But the Shorty accents and that
• 2:44:24
  bloody song are really off putting.
• 2:44:28
  Outrageous Matt Lee Newby the Gunfighter attempts to repeat
• 2:44:33
  the success of the Myth Makers, but while the script is great,
• 2:44:37
  the performances of the guest cast are very varied.
• 2:44:43
  Mike Hickman the Gunfighters is such fun and Dodo is brilliant
• 2:44:47
  in it. Oh sorry David, it's OK, here we
• 2:44:50
  go. James Lark says the Gunfighters
• 2:44:52
  feels like the swan song of the team that commissioned it,
• 2:44:55
  especially since Lloyd and Davis considered pulling it.
• 2:44:58
  Another sign of their limitations.
• 2:45:00
  Gloriously quotable and consistently witty, with the
• 2:45:03
  regulars on great form. Even Dodo works and some great
• 2:45:06
  guest spots. Let's not spit hairs about the
• 2:45:08
  accents. It also has pace and jeopardy,
• 2:45:11
  and the actual gunfight does not disappoint.
• 2:45:14
  Now only the last great historical it's Doctor Who tits
• 2:45:17
  best. And finally, Gareth Madison says
• 2:45:21
  the Gun Fighters has the Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon and is
• 2:45:25
  therefore wonderful. Now listen to how positive
• 2:45:29
  everybody was about that story. Listen to how everybody loved it
• 2:45:33
  and as predictable was finding flies on shit.
• 2:45:37
  Let's now find out from Fraser why he doesn't like this story.
• 2:45:45
  Well, a lot of receive fan wisdom about this one isn't
• 2:45:47
  there because there's the receive fan wisdom that it's
• 2:45:50
  brilliant and there's the receive fan wisdom that it's dog
• 2:45:54
  shit and both are wrong. It's it's somewhere very much in
• 2:45:58
  the middle. It's not the the all conquering
• 2:46:02
  turd that everyone used to claim it was.
• 2:46:04
  But I don't think it's the all conquering classic that everyone
• 2:46:07
  claims it is now. And there is, you know, bits of
• 2:46:11
  it doing joy. I think the direction I'm sure
• 2:46:13
  Joe is going to talk about later is, is very decent from Rex
• 2:46:17
  Tucker. He's picking lots of good angles
• 2:46:19
  and. Oh my God.
• 2:46:22
  I mean, that shoot out at the end though is it's incredible.
• 2:46:27
  It is. Incredible.
• 2:46:28
  The camera work that is all shot on film.
• 2:46:32
  It's so stylish. Go and watch Celestial Tour
• 2:46:34
  Major 4 again, your God's sakes. Don't don't blow your load in
• 2:46:38
  this one. Let let Fraser.
• 2:46:40
  Remember last time when I brought up the name Pennant
• 2:46:42
  Roberts and you and Rod said Oh well all he does is just shoot
• 2:46:44
  people understand two we 2 feet away from each other and shoot
• 2:46:47
  each other and miss. That's exactly what happens
• 2:46:49
  here. No, he doesn't.
• 2:46:50
  He shoots from above. He shoots from below all the
• 2:46:54
  time, and he shoots in several. Layers.
• 2:46:57
  No way. It's not actually looking at
• 2:47:00
  this story. It's a completely unrealistic
• 2:47:03
  gun face. The oldest story of the season.
• 2:47:06
  It's like something out he's. Shooting through the.
• 2:47:08
  Wagons. He's shooting in long shot, he's
• 2:47:11
  shooting in close up, he's going in on people's faces.
• 2:47:14
  Where the ball got the shotgun. Editing it Bang Bang Bang Bang
• 2:47:17
  bang. You're literally not watching
• 2:47:19
  what's on the screen. You're not.
• 2:47:21
  I am watching what's on the screen.
• 2:47:22
  I'm seeing people just shooting left, right and centre but not
• 2:47:24
  actually having a proper. Madness, Fraser.
• 2:47:27
  The ballad's really good fun, isn't it?
• 2:47:29
  I really enjoy that, I think. Why didn't Linda Baron play a
• 2:47:32
  kit? That would have been much
• 2:47:34
  better, I think if Linda Baron had played Kate, I think that
• 2:47:37
  would have elevated the story a little bit because the the
• 2:47:41
  performances here are just not the best.
• 2:47:44
  I don't think there's a lot of fluffs, more fluffs than what
• 2:47:48
  Hartnell gives in this one. And it's all coming from the
• 2:47:51
  supporting cast. Yes, I'm going to have a go at
• 2:47:53
  the accents because I always have a go at the accents because
• 2:47:55
  when you get my accent wrong, I have a go at it.
• 2:47:57
  So when you get someone else's accent wrong, I'm going to have
• 2:47:59
  to, you know, stick up for them as well.
• 2:48:03
  The writing again, though, what's going on with the
• 2:48:06
  writing? This is a proper idiot plot.
• 2:48:09
  The whole story revolves around the fact that the three regulars
• 2:48:14
  are absolute docile idiots. All three of them, which I think
• 2:48:21
  you can get away with with Stephen Bean, dense and
• 2:48:25
  gullible. You can get away with Doodle
• 2:48:28
  Bean dense and gullible because you know anyone that is going to
• 2:48:32
  say a daughter who is stupid in the celestial toy maker needs to
• 2:48:35
  have a real look at this story and just see exactly how much
• 2:48:38
  more stupid she is in this story.
• 2:48:41
  And oh, Dodo just went around saying, oh, isn't this fun in
• 2:48:45
  the toy maker and everyone's trying to kill me.
• 2:48:47
  But she literally gets held at gunpoint and forced to play a
• 2:48:50
  piano. Knows where she managed to learn
• 2:48:52
  to play the piano from, but she's held a gunpoint, forced to
• 2:48:57
  play a piano and literally says, oh, that's fun isn't it?
• 2:48:59
  And wants to keep doing it. And Stephen has to bundle her
• 2:49:02
  off upstairs. The scene where she holds
• 2:49:04
  Holiday hostage with his gun is a terrible.
• 2:49:07
  She's pointing the gun at you. Oh, no, you're pointing.
• 2:49:09
  Oh, no, I don't want to point a gun.
• 2:49:11
  OK, I'll take you to tune soon. Oh, OK.
• 2:49:13
  There you go. Have your gun back.
• 2:49:14
  What a absolute dolt. And you say I don't appreciate.
• 2:49:19
  Fun. What a dumbass.
• 2:49:21
  It's fun, I'll agree. It's.
• 2:49:23
  Hilarious. It is.
• 2:49:24
  It's fun. It's I don't know, it's probably
• 2:49:26
  be too much fun for some people because I think the tone is just
• 2:49:29
  way too and hi, I mean, there's there's not a single bit of
• 2:49:33
  scenery left unshield by these, you know, supporting cast and
• 2:49:39
  you know that it's Hamiadan. I don't know a gammon window
• 2:49:43
  but. The.
• 2:49:45
  Doctor, that's I think that's the most egregious thing.
• 2:49:48
  The Doctor is just such an idiot in this story.
• 2:49:52
  Every time he's just, you know, that scene where he's he gets
• 2:49:57
  the gun and he's like, oh, you think he's he's got some grand
• 2:50:00
  scheme of like, well, I'll give the gun to to Wyatt or Werp,
• 2:50:04
  which is fucking cringe. And you know, getting you have
• 2:50:08
  this great grand plan to win. He's trusting get out and he's
• 2:50:11
  not. He's just playing along with the
• 2:50:13
  the the idiocy of it all. I've just it really just grated
• 2:50:17
  on us when I watched it yesterday of just how much of A
• 2:50:20
  doofus the doctor and every other character in is this.
• 2:50:24
  And you know, the the accuracy is, is just going to shit as
• 2:50:27
  well. It's who was it David Whitaker,
• 2:50:29
  who said don't set your story before a certain period in time,
• 2:50:33
  because after that it's just far too easy for people to pick up
• 2:50:36
  on the flaws in it. And you know this, you look at
• 2:50:41
  the smugglers, the smugglers is a struggle, but it's not in the
• 2:50:44
  sense of it's the the the team are involved in real events.
• 2:50:48
  You know, in the massacre, you can get away with it because no
• 2:50:51
  one has the first clue about what's going on.
• 2:50:53
  But then no one knows about massacre of Saint Bartholomew's
• 2:50:55
  Eve. You know, the the myth makers,
• 2:50:58
  it's myth. So you can just do whatever you
• 2:51:00
  want and, you know, pretend it's just myth.
• 2:51:02
  But this you, there's a certain element of you need to kind of
• 2:51:06
  get it right. You know, one of the characters,
• 2:51:10
  you know, that actually was in this story, you know, one of the
• 2:51:15
  real life people died before, died after William Hartner was
• 2:51:19
  born. You know, so it's really too
• 2:51:21
  close to, to the modern time. And it's, it's, it's Donald
• 2:51:27
  Cotton. He's, he's riffing off the film.
• 2:51:30
  He's based on his story on the film of the events, not the
• 2:51:33
  events themselves, which means there's a ton of inaccuracies in
• 2:51:36
  there. So that's the point.
• 2:51:40
  You know, it's, it's, it's not terrible, it's not good.
• 2:51:44
  But you know, if I'm doing 3 and out with three in and three out,
• 2:51:46
  then this one's going in the bin.
• 2:51:49
  Oh. My God, he finished.
• 2:51:51
  Good. He's finished.
• 2:51:52
  Joe, Joe, How about some balance?
• 2:51:54
  Here. What a load of bullshit.
• 2:51:56
  I've never heard such a load of crap.
• 2:51:59
  I think we're all about to. They're gunfighters.
• 2:52:01
  Just the most delightful story in this tail end of the season
• 2:52:06
  that that last action set piece. Yeah.
• 2:52:09
  It puts anything in Ambassadors of Death to shame in terms of
• 2:52:14
  how it's shot. Fraser, it's that's a
• 2:52:16
  beautifully short action sequence on film.
• 2:52:20
  It's stunningly shot. Apart from the bit where Doodle
• 2:52:23
  the Duns runs right up to the character that then puts a gun
• 2:52:27
  against her head. So Doc Holiday puts his gun down
• 2:52:30
  so that character doesn't shoot Doc Holiday, he just edges into
• 2:52:33
  the middle of the road where Dodo can run away from him and
• 2:52:35
  Doc Holiday can pull very slowly.
• 2:52:37
  He's Dillinger out of his pocket and shoot him in the heart.
• 2:52:41
  Are you finished? It's just wonderful.
• 2:52:44
  It's dynamic, it's stylish. And you're wrong.
• 2:52:48
  It's not all two shots. It is long shots.
• 2:52:50
  It is close up. He is shooting through things
• 2:52:53
  far more than even someone like Michael Ferguson does.
• 2:52:56
  It's so beautifully done. He takes the camera to the top
• 2:52:59
  of those stairs and shoots down for some of that in just
• 2:53:02
  absolutely beautiful, beautiful shots.
• 2:53:05
  I don't know what you're watching.
• 2:53:07
  Through this set. It's.
• 2:53:09
  Gorgeous. It's I mean, but throughout the
• 2:53:11
  direction is stunning. He's always shooting from above
• 2:53:14
  and below. He's he's getting in the full
• 2:53:17
  scope of the sets. It is some of the best direction
• 2:53:20
  you're ever going to see in a William Harlow story.
• 2:53:23
  You're mad. Doc Holiday is one of the
• 2:53:26
  coolest, most charismatic characters we've ever seen in
• 2:53:29
  Doctor Who. His interactions with Dodo are
• 2:53:32
  excellent. His cheeky scenes with Kate in
• 2:53:36
  the first. I mean, it's so naughty, isn't
• 2:53:38
  it? Where she's sitting there on his
• 2:53:39
  lap, they're about to start fucking and the Doctor walks in.
• 2:53:42
  Hilarious. All of his interactions with
• 2:53:45
  William Hartnell are just glorious.
• 2:53:48
  Absolutely glorious. I think all three regulars are
• 2:53:52
  on on top form. Yeah, there are a bit daft, but
• 2:53:55
  let's be honest, the characters are always a bit daft in the
• 2:53:58
  60s. Oh, so it's fine for them to be
• 2:54:01
  daft in this one, but not the time maker rate, got that?
• 2:54:04
  Yes I'm glad, especially Harner who is just having the best time
• 2:54:08
  in this. I think this is the the ultimate
• 2:54:10
  argument for the Doctor Stephen and Dodo because they are just
• 2:54:14
  so fun to watch. Infinitely more fun to watch
• 2:54:18
  than the first Doctor Ben and Polly in the Smugglers.
• 2:54:21
  Good grief. And look at the lines in this
• 2:54:24
  thing. How do we look?
• 2:54:25
  Oh, good grief. Absolutely absurd.
• 2:54:29
  You can't walk into the middle of a western town and say you're
• 2:54:31
  from outer space. Goodness gracious me, you'll all
• 2:54:34
  be arrested on a vagrancy charge.
• 2:54:37
  It's a good thing I didn't have to have my tonsils out.
• 2:54:40
  Let's hope the piano knows it before you don't touch alcohol
• 2:54:44
  but a little glass of milk. Oh, sorry, David.
• 2:54:46
  You said that one, didn't you? And even best of all, I want to
• 2:54:51
  see my solicitor. He's banged up.
• 2:54:54
  He's fucking hilarious when he's at the at the bar and goes to
• 2:54:58
  Kate. How do we proceed whilst he's
• 2:55:01
  holding a garden on all the gunmen.
• 2:55:03
  It's so funny, this Donald Cotton's.
• 2:55:06
  Yeah, he is doing the movies. Fraser.
• 2:55:08
  You're right. But he's fucking acing it,
• 2:55:11
  Absolutely acing it. Plus there is action throughout.
• 2:55:15
  It's really well paced. Everyone gets loads to do.
• 2:55:19
  There's lots of chances for the actors, like you say, to get
• 2:55:22
  their teeth into this material. It's immaculately shot.
• 2:55:26
  It's just one of the best William Hartnell stories there
• 2:55:29
  is. It's so fun, it's so enjoyable
• 2:55:32
  to watch. And there's an even better
• 2:55:34
  version of it in the book, which is just the most the blissfully
• 2:55:39
  written target novel from the point of view of Ned Buntline,
• 2:55:43
  this grizzled old Western cowboy.
• 2:55:47
  Just glorious. I love this.
• 2:55:49
  I love this with all of my heart.
• 2:55:51
  I could watch it again and again and again.
• 2:55:53
  By far the highlight of this bunch. 5 million miles.
• 2:55:57
  Yes, please put it through. Nice.
• 2:56:02
  I don't see, Eddie said. When he was watching, He found
• 2:56:05
  it less entertained than he thought he would, but he still
• 2:56:08
  loved it. David's actually.
• 2:56:10
  There is nothing quite like this in Doctor Who.
• 2:56:14
  That device of the bad of the last Chancellor loom.
• 2:56:17
  It's not trying to be a serious worst.
• 2:56:19
  And that's what I think Jeremy Bentham missed.
• 2:56:22
  When what's what was lying for? For the savages, from the
• 2:56:25
  ridiculous to the sublime. Don't know what the hell he was
• 2:56:28
  watching. Wasn't these stories.
• 2:56:30
  I don't think it's my dog. Can't.
• 2:56:35
  Donald can't recycle him because he's basically getting to write
• 2:56:38
  the Myth makers. Again.
• 2:56:39
  This has the exact same point as the Myth Makers.
• 2:56:43
  It is trying to to show how the human tendency to mythologise
• 2:56:52
  applies not only to ancient humans, but but to fairly modern
• 2:56:57
  daily ones as well. Fraser's right, because part of
• 2:57:01
  the last chance of Loon is, is why Whiter, I think was involved
• 2:57:05
  in all the early Hollywood films.
• 2:57:07
  So most of the mythology of the Wild West we know is formed by
• 2:57:10
  him bullshitting about what he got up to.
• 2:57:14
  So it's and it's Donald Khan's very aware of what he's taking
• 2:57:17
  off because of the references to, you know, Doctor Calamari,
• 2:57:22
  Tom Mix, all that. It's deliberately taking those
• 2:57:28
  cowboy movies and and not only but treat him exactly the same
• 2:57:35
  way he treats mythology in the myth makers.
• 2:57:38
  That does mean it's less lyrical, yes, but it's
• 2:57:43
  deliberately so because films are not in no way as lyrical as
• 2:57:48
  The Odyssey or any of those stories.
• 2:57:51
  It's really got this lovely intellectual interpreting.
• 2:57:55
  You can see kind of see what the best of the wild version of
• 2:58:00
  Doctor Who is, because it's still it's still highbrow with
• 2:58:05
  what it's trying to do. It's in terms of the culture,
• 2:58:07
  it's trying, but it's also popular entertainment.
• 2:58:11
  So it I really love those kind of intellectual underpinnings to
• 2:58:16
  it. But above all, you're right.
• 2:58:18
  It's just such glorious fun. It, you know, from what's it Mr.
• 2:58:26
  Doug du Pont and Mr. Steven regret she gets, you know what's
• 2:58:30
  her song? I hope the piano knows it.
• 2:58:32
  Great. So, yeah.
• 2:58:35
  And you know, what's her actually, when she gets through
• 2:58:36
  with that, do you know, play piano, I'll have a bash.
• 2:58:39
  Great. It's keen and eager.
• 2:58:41
  They're trying it. I love that.
• 2:58:43
  You're right. You're right.
• 2:58:45
  Anthony Jacobs is fantastic here.
• 2:58:47
  He's got that kind of beautiful, laid back.
• 2:58:49
  He's always in control, knows what he's doing.
• 2:58:54
  Yeah, He, he you think they could shoot me?
• 2:58:57
  Just brush it off, you know, just brush it off his leg.
• 2:58:59
  But it's great. Oh, and, yeah, Hartnell, just,
• 2:59:03
  my God, that that stroll down the down the street where he's
• 2:59:08
  just got the word. Loom behind him, beautifully
• 2:59:12
  direct. Beautiful.
• 2:59:13
  I don't think that's a very subtle form of advertising, do
• 2:59:16
  you? I think in this Lloyd probably
• 2:59:18
  asked for it that Chuck didn't. Something like that.
• 2:59:21
  Fucking tooth for. God's sake.
• 2:59:25
  That cliffhanger, George. That cliffhanger?
• 2:59:29
  Oh, God, yeah. Just wondering down the street.
• 2:59:31
  Oh, it's good. Kate's version of The Last
• 2:59:34
  Chance Saloon. When she does get to sing it,
• 2:59:37
  that's a proper body version of Doctor.
• 2:59:39
  That's really great. Old Western good again.
• 2:59:43
  There's nothing quite like it in Doctor Who.
• 2:59:48
  I mean, yeah, what? When CC and Johnny Ringo face
• 2:59:52
  up, it's on the House. Never figured anything different
• 2:59:56
  this way. This the the actual cut to the
• 3:00:00
  film sequence of the and the actual gunfight is a little bit
• 3:00:03
  jarring because of the way comedy's been played, But
• 3:00:06
  Johnny, Johnny Rigo's introduction changes the tone
• 3:00:09
  beautifully. The performance is Lawrence
• 3:00:11
  Payne knit. Absolutely nails that.
• 3:00:14
  Suddenly at night, isn't it? It's suddenly at night.
• 3:00:17
  He's shot in shadows. Yeah, there's that lovely shot
• 3:00:22
  in the in the jailhouse when what's it?
• 3:00:26
  The the one, that one, I can't remember his name now.
• 3:00:29
  He gets shot and it's just shot through the bars, the shadows of
• 3:00:32
  the bars going across. That's a gorgeous shot.
• 3:00:36
  I don't know why you wanted to say it in the first place,
• 3:00:39
  Stephen. Regret.
• 3:00:40
  I mean, what kind of name is that for a singer anyway?
• 3:00:42
  My dear young man, can't you sing a little?
• 3:00:45
  Well, yes, a little though. Why?
• 3:00:46
  Say it at all? Well, I had to find some sort of
• 3:00:48
  suitable cover. After all, you can't walk into
• 3:00:51
  the middle of a western town and say you've come from outer
• 3:00:53
  space. Gracious me, you'll be arrested
• 3:00:56
  on a vagrancy charge. And what about our little Wizard
• 3:00:59
  of the keys, Miss DuPont, Can you play Bash?
• 3:01:02
  There will be no necessity to have a bass because tomorrow
• 3:01:05
  morning we're going to leave to Tombstone and we should be back
• 3:01:09
  in the TARDIS for lunch. You know, I don't think that
• 3:01:11
  that is a very subtle form of advertising.
• 3:01:14
  You. Yes, come to think of it, my
• 3:01:17
  dear, can you ask it my if I do think better?
• 3:01:20
  Yes, I do think it's going to be.
• 3:01:21
  Come on, Doctor Straight. Into the surgery.
• 3:01:24
  I'll go to the hotel and book the.
• 3:01:25
  Rooms, please, doctor, you'll feel.
• 3:01:27
  So much better after. Oh, I only wish I shared your
• 3:01:30
  confidence, my dear. I suppose I'll I'll meet you
• 3:01:33
  both back in the hotel lounge. Oh, here it goes again.
• 3:01:39
  The hotel lounge. Where does he think we?
• 3:01:41
  Are. What's so funny?
• 3:01:43
  I was. Just thinking, I hope he's not
• 3:01:46
  expecting an injection. I got.
• 3:01:57
  To get in there. Forgive me.
• 3:01:58
  So yeah, I should have not. What's your business?
• 3:02:03
  Well the fact is I I have a toothache.
• 3:02:07
  Well, glory be, you know, you're our very first customer.
• 3:02:12
  I see. Well, under the circumstances, I
• 3:02:15
  think perhaps yes. Excuse.
• 3:02:16
  Me now, now, now, now, now, stranger.
• 3:02:19
  Just you sit right down in that chair.
• 3:02:21
  Right along here. Honey, Well, as a matter of
• 3:02:24
  fact, don't do the delayed dental treatment.
• 3:02:29
  There you go. That's the philosophy of
• 3:02:31
  toothache. Are you going in the backroom,
• 3:02:34
  Kate? No.
• 3:02:35
  Can I watch? Now you know you can't stand the
• 3:02:38
  sight of blood. No, OK, but I'll be thinking of
• 3:02:42
  her. She's kind of a sensitive girl.
• 3:02:47
  Well, now what seems to be your troubles?
• 3:02:49
  Well, I'll take you to the back here somewhere.
• 3:02:51
  Here, I mean, look. Oh yeah, I see.
• 3:02:54
  Well, now if you just hold real still, I'll.
• 3:02:58
  Just a minute, please, haven't you?
• 3:03:00
  Any anaesthetic? Right, Well, there's something
• 3:03:03
  to sort of dull the pain, man. Well, I can give you a wrap on
• 3:03:06
  the cranium with this. Certainly not.
• 3:03:09
  Well, you're welcome to a slugger, rattlesnake.
• 3:03:13
  Oh. My dear man, I never touch
• 3:03:15
  alcohol. Well, I do.
• 3:03:19
  The Mercedes is most unprofessional.
• 3:03:21
  I do hope you know what you're doing.
• 3:03:23
  I never tolerated any complaints yet my whole life.
• 3:03:26
  Now then, you just open wide. It's absolutely you know, I know
• 3:03:33
  Rex Tucker took his name for the last episode, but my God, he
• 3:03:36
  should have kept it on there because it's absolutely coaster
• 3:03:39
  active. The architecture has set Barry
• 3:03:42
  Newbury. You see what he did to fit all
• 3:03:45
  that in the studio. So he so Rex that could shoot
• 3:03:49
  that as he wanted. He's incredible.
• 3:03:52
  I don't recommend that, but the. The the outside bit, you know
• 3:03:56
  the the town and the. Town.
• 3:03:59
  With the perspective shot is incredible, isn't it?
• 3:04:03
  How do you how do you shoot that in the studio?
• 3:04:06
  It's, it's genuinely one of the most creative, I think,
• 3:04:09
  productions in this whole era. And yeah, funnily enough, from
• 3:04:16
  it's the same for me as Joe, I think this is the absolute
• 3:04:21
  highlight. It's, you know, when you first
• 3:04:23
  hear you go, is it as bad as it is you thought?
• 3:04:26
  No, it's not bad. It is fantastic.
• 3:04:29
  It is just thoroughly wonderful. As David said about comfort
• 3:04:33
  stories, you can put this on and you will have a good time for 4
• 3:04:38
  episodes. Gorgeous.
• 3:04:40
  It's going through. It's in the final.
• 3:04:44
  Yes. It's like Black Adder.
• 3:04:47
  Before it's time, right? It's as accurate as Black Adder.
• 3:04:50
  Anna's witty. Anna's well performed.
• 3:04:55
  You can tell it's getting late. You're the outlier here, Fraser
• 3:05:00
  now. It's all right, we've now got to
• 3:05:03
  find out what Fraser's going to make of the Ted planets.
• 3:05:08
  God. Knows.
• 3:05:11
  Fraser, take it away. If anyone that can do the sums
• 3:05:14
  realises, you know that I'm keeping this one and it's an
• 3:05:18
  easy keep for me. There's so much to enjoy in this
• 3:05:23
  one. I think the obvious one is the
• 3:05:25
  big silver giants, the Cybermen who are launched in here and
• 3:05:29
  it's a fantastic concept. You know, Kit Pedal and Jerry
• 3:05:33
  Davis have come up with this idea of just normal men who've
• 3:05:38
  replaced all their body parts and in doing so, they've lost
• 3:05:41
  their soul, they've lost their emotions.
• 3:05:44
  You know, that's that's a fantastic concept.
• 3:05:46
  The concept of Earth's long lost twin planets, who's that's
• 3:05:50
  returned is a fantastic one. Putting them together.
• 3:05:54
  It really works. The Cybermen, the realization of
• 3:05:56
  the Cybermen. I know what everyone's going to
• 3:05:58
  say. Well, they're just look shit in
• 3:05:59
  this tape together, but it works.
• 3:06:01
  Stalking over the faces, you know, the, the human hands, you
• 3:06:04
  know that they are men. They are, you know, not robots.
• 3:06:08
  These are actual cyborgs. And the the voice, you know, the
• 3:06:13
  way they just open the mouth and their voice comes out, I don't
• 3:06:15
  know, burnt down like this is, you know, it's, it's, it's one
• 3:06:18
  of the the best realisations. You can see why Capaldi wanted
• 3:06:22
  to bring these back for his his finale.
• 3:06:26
  They are brilliant. Derek Martinez direction.
• 3:06:29
  I think he's a bit of a shout out.
• 3:06:32
  You know, thanks to Rod, he kind of tops and tails this season in
• 3:06:37
  a bit that we're talking about. You know, he does Galaxy 4, he
• 3:06:39
  does the 10th planet. You know, it, he, he really does
• 3:06:44
  a great job in this. That opening shot where we just
• 3:06:46
  kind of pulls back from Cutler across the whole of the, the
• 3:06:51
  control room is an excellent one.
• 3:06:53
  I think he's either showed us what we're missing from Galaxy
• 3:06:55
  4. Are we showing us what he's
• 3:06:57
  learned in the intervening time? We've got to talk about the
• 3:07:02
  regeneration. You know, there has been, we
• 3:07:06
  haven't really discussed it much in terms of how many times they
• 3:07:09
  have tried to get rid of Doctor Who so far.
• 3:07:12
  You know, in terms of the toy maker having them come back once
• 3:07:15
  he's turned invisible as a normal person, having been
• 3:07:17
  replaced by Frederick Eagermeister, as you know, as
• 3:07:22
  you know, had he been absorbed into him, you know, all these
• 3:07:24
  things which let's face it, wouldn't have kept the show
• 3:07:27
  running for 60 years. Where was the one to settle on
• 3:07:30
  the one that come up with this idea of tell you what will just
• 3:07:33
  change him into a different actor, will do a TARDIS?
• 3:07:35
  No, he's a little back in the mix and new Doctor will not
• 3:07:40
  explain it. Is is a winner.
• 3:07:45
  Yeah, it's fantastic. You know, the, the the sets I
• 3:07:48
  think are really good. The the location, the concept,
• 3:07:52
  the story. This is it's not just we're
• 3:07:54
  setting off a new Doctor and this we are setting off really
• 3:07:57
  the format for the show for years to come.
• 3:07:59
  It's the first base under siege. And I know people are going to
• 3:08:02
  complain that it gets used too much in a couple of years time,
• 3:08:04
  but I won't. But it gets used.
• 3:08:06
  It's still getting used today. You know, things like the well
• 3:08:09
  is a base under siege. You know, it's what you look
• 3:08:12
  for. It's what you're what you expect
• 3:08:15
  comfort, sort of Doctor Who. But more than anything, you
• 3:08:18
  know, it is just forging the future of Doctor Who.
• 3:08:22
  You know, Hartnell bows out, you know, propelling the show that
• 3:08:26
  he has created and built and moulded just as much as anyone
• 3:08:30
  else in the last three years into this sort of brave new
• 3:08:34
  world of the 2nd Doctor and everything that's going to come
• 3:08:37
  with him. You know, Doctor Who's never
• 3:08:39
  going to be the same after this story.
• 3:08:40
  But. It's.
• 3:08:41
  Still staying true to everything that Hartnell is founded in
• 3:08:45
  this. So keep for me please you.
• 3:08:48
  Just keep it. All right, then we will go for
• 3:08:50
  the last time to that insane bunch.
• 3:08:54
  This these strictly listeners, Joe, do you want to take the
• 3:08:57
  first one? Yeah, Andy Parkinson says a
• 3:09:00
  scary, atmospheric and great introduction to the Cybermen.
• 3:09:04
  They won't be this scary again until the 12th Doctors finale.
• 3:09:08
  Keep it. Mad Paddington.
• 3:09:12
  The Cybermen are so bloody scary in this.
• 3:09:15
  Gruesomely so. I don't want to be that fan, but
• 3:09:19
  I don't think they ever really recapture the horror of them
• 3:09:22
  again until world enough in time.
• 3:09:23
  Spot on. The regeneration now must have
• 3:09:26
  blown minds. At the time they can't have
• 3:09:29
  known they were setting in motion the longevity of the
• 3:09:31
  series. Like almost all the best bits of
• 3:09:34
  Doctor Who, making something iconic out from necessity if you
• 3:09:40
  want to give it the big one. For the last time tonight,
• 3:09:43
  gentlemen, can I have a big, big.
• 3:09:46
  Big. Can I have an orange?
• 3:09:50
  Orange. Orange.
• 3:09:51
  I'm pleased. For the love of God, can I have
• 3:09:52
  a Michael? Michael.
• 3:09:55
  Have a Michael. Everyone's in bed, we've got to
• 3:09:57
  be quiet. Big orange Michael.
• 3:10:01
  Big Orange Michael says when I first saw a blurry traded copy
• 3:10:04
  of this one from a fellow or a WDW fan.
• 3:10:09
  Wreck outs Doctor Who. There we go, records Doctor Who
• 3:10:13
  fan. I thought it was the best thing
• 3:10:15
  since sliced bread. Years later I've got official
• 3:10:18
  releases and while I still like them, it's not the classic I
• 3:10:21
  once thought it was. Iconic because it's the first
• 3:10:23
  Cyberman story and 1st regeneration, all while creating
• 3:10:27
  the template for the next two seasons.
• 3:10:29
  I respect the heck out of it. I wish we had the full serial of
• 3:10:33
  you. Keep it on historical value
• 3:10:35
  alone. No, keep it because it's a great
• 3:10:38
  story. David Galuli says 10th Planet is
• 3:10:42
  a good introduction to Cybermen toy makers.
• 3:10:45
  Cat says the Cyber Boys have arrived, and yay for that.
• 3:10:49
  I've really grown to love these versions over time.
• 3:10:52
  The first time I saw a picture of them and then heard the
• 3:10:54
  voice, I thought they were rather comical, but they so
• 3:10:57
  armed. Cutler is a complete twat
• 3:11:00
  though, and it's a fairly average story.
• 3:11:04
  Jason Thompson The 10th Planet tries to tell a story of global
• 3:11:08
  invasion in a small studio set and doesn't quite hit the mark.
• 3:11:13
  The sub men are affected though and Harp was on top form again.
• 3:11:17
  Keep it Chris Curtis says the 10th planet.
• 3:11:21
  Such a great idea behind a basement, a siege story, the
• 3:11:25
  original you might say. Great opening 2 episodes but
• 3:11:30
  struggles how to resolve. But boy, are those Cybermen
• 3:11:33
  scary. A monster scary for the concept
• 3:11:36
  and the visuals. Adipose lover says hentai
• 3:11:41
  believe is overrated as Hartnell doesn't do much because of his
• 3:11:45
  health other than say iconic minds.
• 3:11:47
  But it mainly suffers that the Sidemen don't do much and
• 3:11:50
  they're only in really two of the four episodes being wasted
• 3:11:53
  potential. The cliffhanger is amazing and
• 3:11:55
  the Rondassian Sidemen design is superb.
• 3:11:59
  The username says. Definitely a classic, but maybe
• 3:12:03
  a tad overrated due to its significance.
• 3:12:07
  And I apologise, Daniel. I have you.
• 3:12:10
  I've got you again, Daniel Rawlsley.
• 3:12:12
  Is it brilliant or a bit rubbish?
• 3:12:15
  Well, an execution may be, but those ghostly giant side men
• 3:12:19
  with regeneration face under siege.
• 3:12:21
  Scientifically implausible planets we can get away with.
• 3:12:25
  These are big series changing ideas and that's his stories
• 3:12:29
  came to. Brilliant right there.
• 3:12:31
  I love it. Michael Storm, who we all know
• 3:12:37
  loves the Cyberman story, over hyped by the introduction of the
• 3:12:41
  sideman and the regeneration story is fairly run-of-the-mill
• 3:12:45
  on. With too much treading water in
• 3:12:47
  Part 3, Hartnall deserves a more active part in his final story.
• 3:12:51
  Well, Michael Storm. Mike Hickman says much as I like
• 3:12:55
  the 10th Planet for the side men in the regeneration, the
• 3:12:58
  shouting men get wearing Ding Dong London calling off peace
• 3:13:03
  but was chatting with a pal about missing apps and it made
• 3:13:06
  me hope the 10th Planet 4 was never found.
• 3:13:08
  What all of us fine, but not that who fans are very good at
• 3:13:13
  putting up with our lot. No, please don't stop searching
• 3:13:17
  for it because London Colon doesn't want the episode to
• 3:13:20
  exist. Good at salvage, lots of good
• 3:13:24
  has come from making do, and I think it needs to stay that way
• 3:13:27
  somehow. I mean, I've never heard such
• 3:13:31
  madness outside of Fraser. I don't know, James laugh.
• 3:13:37
  Yeah, yes, indeed. Shocking.
• 3:13:42
  I'm right there, Mat le newbie. As wonderful idea as the side
• 3:13:48
  men are, the plot is fairly we can repeat itself with the side
• 3:13:51
  attacking the tracking station, being defeated, and then
• 3:13:54
  attacking it again in the second-half only to be defeated
• 3:13:58
  again. The direction it can work isn't
• 3:14:00
  great, and things aren't helped by harmless absence in Part 3
• 3:14:04
  due to ill health. Cliff Chapman, 10th Planet 4
• 3:14:07
  suffers from 2. Little Hartnell in his last bow.
• 3:14:10
  He doesn't do much. Simon Threadgold says the 10th
• 3:14:13
  planet. Historic firsts aside, lots of
• 3:14:16
  angry men shouting in rooms and. I think it's only fair, mate.
• 3:14:22
  I think it's only fair that John reads out the final comment.
• 3:14:24
  Oh, go on, John. Oh you should.
• 3:14:27
  We've got Eddie, 10th planet, just the perfection of
• 3:14:33
  Hartmoor's era, the 1st 10 out of 10 story in the show.
• 3:14:36
  All I'll say is just please, whatever you do, don't listen to
• 3:14:41
  John when he tries to claim it's one of the worst animals.
• 3:14:45
  He's just had a few too many drinks and never paid attention.
• 3:14:51
  Sorry, John, sorry you have to read.
• 3:14:53
  That out, I don't mind that. I should probably go off that
• 3:14:57
  because Eddie's kind of blown my position on it.
• 3:15:00
  I'm not the biggest fan of base under Siege stories.
• 3:15:05
  I don't mind them when they're well done, but they are static.
• 3:15:11
  I know this is inventing it for production reasons, for the
• 3:15:15
  cheapness of you can have one big central set and a couple of
• 3:15:18
  little ones off the side, but I think that creates so many
• 3:15:21
  problems for this story. Here, what you've got is
• 3:15:25
  essentially a lot of sets, and this characters in those sets
• 3:15:30
  never meet. They only ever interact by video
• 3:15:33
  screen. It's such a static story.
• 3:15:37
  There's no kind of sense of movement.
• 3:15:39
  I do think that Derek Martinez does a really good job,
• 3:15:43
  particularly with those Antarctic sets, The sideman
• 3:15:47
  marching across a brilliant imagery.
• 3:15:49
  And when, you know, when the sideman turns around and chops
• 3:15:53
  down the one guy. But come on, I mean, come on,
• 3:15:55
  how? How do you not see that that big
• 3:15:57
  guy in an anrag isn't your mate? You've got a Blizzard in your
• 3:16:01
  face, you can't see where you're going.
• 3:16:05
  Yeah, and I will say it's a pretty shit siege if you can
• 3:16:08
  just come and go out to the base as you please.
• 3:16:11
  Which they pretty much do. The side pretty much do.
• 3:16:13
  They're up and down. Why doesn't Antarctic base?
• 3:16:17
  Why does Antarctic base have a Periscope?
• 3:16:19
  What need is there for an? How long is?
• 3:16:21
  He going to see what's above you.
• 3:16:24
  There's a Penguin. That's all you're expecting.
• 3:16:27
  It's. Not just me, that can be
• 3:16:29
  argumentative. Yeah, so the episode 1 clip out
• 3:16:37
  again is terrific. There's sideman coming in.
• 3:16:40
  Martinez does try and work, he said.
• 3:16:43
  There's a when there's a swooping camera shot coming in
• 3:16:46
  on on Wigner's face in in that scene, which is lovely.
• 3:16:51
  Gives it a sense, tries to give it a sense of movement.
• 3:16:55
  There's the theme of that man machine point of view.
• 3:16:59
  It's sideman kind who are supposed to be the patient ones.
• 3:17:02
  I what I don't like though, is the doctor knowing what's going
• 3:17:09
  on before everyone else does and just basically unravelling as a
• 3:17:14
  mystery. I think that kind of loses a bit
• 3:17:18
  attention story. It's, it's almost exposition and
• 3:17:21
  just, I know what's going on. I know how this is all going to
• 3:17:24
  work out. If you're not going to work out,
• 3:17:28
  what's a point? Just tell everyone to really,
• 3:17:33
  you know, this isn't the doctor versus the sideman and whoever
• 3:17:36
  said it was just basically the same to same story twice is
• 3:17:39
  absolutely right because it's just the sideman came to the
• 3:17:41
  base twice, invade twice. It's repetitive and it's awful.
• 3:17:49
  I do like the astronauts thing, particularly with Earl Cameron.
• 3:17:53
  I find that kind of thing really quite poignant because those
• 3:18:00
  astronauts, I think it does capture what they were going
• 3:18:03
  through at the time. The astronaut thing, they were
• 3:18:07
  in such danger going up there. You know, they're they're
• 3:18:10
  strapped to the back of a giant bomb essentially going up into
• 3:18:12
  space. And it really does capture the
• 3:18:15
  danger of what would happen when a flight went wrong.
• 3:18:17
  You know, this was before Apollo 13 happened.
• 3:18:20
  This it does that kind of thing really well.
• 3:18:24
  Earl Cameron sells and it's particularly good in the book as
• 3:18:27
  well. It's it's a real pathos to it.
• 3:18:31
  I think I sort, I've read the book before.
• 3:18:32
  I heard Space Arty and it really kind of made Space Arty one of
• 3:18:35
  the saddest songs I'd ever heard, which is almost tragic
• 3:18:37
  for me. But yeah, it's essentially it's
• 3:18:42
  similar to Warriors Gate in the it's the doctor versus human
• 3:18:45
  inpatients here. And it's the actual point of
• 3:18:50
  Warriors Gate that sometimes waiting is the best thing to do.
• 3:18:55
  And ultimately, the biggest thing it's got is that it's
• 3:18:59
  sidelines Hartnell in his last story.
• 3:19:02
  I know it's a necessity in Episode 3, but you want to give
• 3:19:07
  this guy who's given so much to the show something a a kind of A
• 3:19:13
  at least a grand moment to finish off, and he doesn't get
• 3:19:16
  it. And that's what's always really
• 3:19:19
  disappointed me about it. So yeah, for me, I'm afraid to
• 3:19:25
  make a few good points, but I I never kind of enjoy it.
• 3:19:29
  And I do agree with a guy who said it's because it's this
• 3:19:32
  grand monolith of doctrines that introduces the side men who are
• 3:19:37
  a brilliant concept and look great here.
• 3:19:39
  And because it introduces regeneration, we do overvalue
• 3:19:42
  it. I'm not in a the 10th plant
• 3:19:45
  isn't high on my list. I do want to see it back, but it
• 3:19:48
  wouldn't be the highest one on my list.
• 3:19:49
  So I just, yeah, I want it bend, please.
• 3:19:54
  I'm getting a signal, Sir, from Lieutenant Cutler, Sir.
• 3:19:57
  I'm tumbling badly. There's no control left of the
• 3:19:59
  capsule. I must speak fast.
• 3:20:01
  Yes. Go ahead, son.
• 3:20:02
  This new planet, there's something strange happening.
• 3:20:06
  What do you mean? Well, it seems to.
• 3:20:07
  Brighten up like a sun and then darken again.
• 3:20:09
  We cannot absorb much more energy.
• 3:20:11
  Sir Cyberman spaceships on approach path.
• 3:20:14
  Shut up, will you? Go ahead, son.
• 3:20:15
  Hey, controls gone again. Energy loss severe.
• 3:20:20
  It's like, it's like being on a switch bank.
• 3:20:23
  I can't. I can't seem to get that signal
• 3:20:26
  back. It's gone.
• 3:20:29
  Could be a power failure. Come on, man.
• 3:20:32
  Come on. Nice.
• 3:20:32
  Get that signal there's. Sybermanship on descent now.
• 3:20:36
  Afraid to tell you. Hopeless.
• 3:20:37
  The enemy will be landing again. The enemy.
• 3:20:45
  I'll tell you who the enemy is. You are.
• 3:20:50
  The enemy. You.
• 3:20:51
  So they must have landed. You.
• 3:20:54
  You killed my son. That's why I landed you.
• 3:20:59
  Versus my game I care about in this whole.
• 3:21:01
  World. And you'll kill them.
• 3:21:04
  So now I'm going to kill you and I'll start a new Doctor.
• 3:21:23
  Anyone who moves will be killed in Stanley.
• 3:21:30
  So, Joe, what do you think here? Ring the bells, sound the drums.
• 3:21:39
  For the first time tonight, Joe Ford and Fraser Gregory are on
• 3:21:45
  the same page. Good God the.
• 3:21:50
  Apocalypse is upon us. I.
• 3:21:51
  Was going to say never mind ringing the bells.
• 3:21:53
  I think that's one of the signs of the apocalypse.
• 3:21:57
  I think this is the best. I love how dressed up out of a
• 3:22:04
  kitchen sink these side men are. It really feels as if they have
• 3:22:08
  been scrapped together desperately whilst the planet is
• 3:22:12
  falling apart. They're ghoulish.
• 3:22:15
  Those those faces with the eyes coming out of the mass.
• 3:22:18
  They're so scary. They're like desperate, ghostly
• 3:22:22
  pale imitations of human life, screaming spectators.
• 3:22:27
  As well isn't. It of a mechanised future and I
• 3:22:29
  don't think they get it right in the 12th Doctors sideman finale.
• 3:22:35
  I think they're too clean in that they're too they're too
• 3:22:38
  pressed, you know, Whereas here they just look cobbled together.
• 3:22:42
  It's really like they just grab the first thing they can to try
• 3:22:46
  and like mechanise them. It's really horrible.
• 3:22:50
  And the way the mouth opens and the voice comes out, but it
• 3:22:53
  looks like a scream, that's so scary.
• 3:22:57
  I think the story is paced really, really well as well.
• 3:23:00
  I think the first episode is a great scene setter.
• 3:23:03
  It introduces you to all the base characters extremely
• 3:23:06
  effectively. The Doctor, Polly and Ben coming
• 3:23:09
  in very engagingly. Hartnell as commanding as he's
• 3:23:13
  ever been in those early scenes. I love it when he's butting
• 3:23:16
  heads with cut lag. You know, don't call me Pop.
• 3:23:20
  I don't like your face and I don't like your hair either.
• 3:23:23
  He's a Stehartnell. Brilliant.
• 3:23:26
  But I think every sort of 10 minutes or so there is something
• 3:23:29
  exciting happening. The.
• 3:23:32
  Best thing I think about this story, and it's something that
• 3:23:35
  people really overlook, is General Cutler, who I think is
• 3:23:38
  just terrifying in this. And it starts off and we know
• 3:23:42
  he's that sort of uptight boss who runs a tight ship, but then
• 3:23:47
  he basically has a breakdown throughout the story.
• 3:23:50
  And when it, you know, his son, the danger of losing his son
• 3:23:54
  fuels his madness as the story goes along to the point where I
• 3:23:58
  don't know if it's in three or four, he picks up Ben and
• 3:24:01
  literally throws him over a gantry.
• 3:24:05
  I mean, it would break someone's fucking neck if you did that to
• 3:24:07
  them. He's completely nuts by the last
• 3:24:10
  episode. But I think is it Warren Beatty?
• 3:24:13
  He plays it brilliantly. There's an intensity, too.
• 3:24:15
  Robert Beatty, he's really, really scary.
• 3:24:19
  His version of that would be interesting, I think, yeah.
• 3:24:23
  Indeed. You've sent my son to his death,
• 3:24:26
  You realise that. I hope you know it's, it's a
• 3:24:29
  great performance. Yeah.
• 3:24:32
  I, I, I I just think for all the reasons it's celebrated, this is
• 3:24:37
  great. I think what Hartnell does get
• 3:24:40
  to do, he does extremely well. But I do think Ben, in
• 3:24:44
  particular in Part 3, takes on the role of the lead in this
• 3:24:49
  story is climbing through the things, blinding the cyber man,
• 3:24:53
  killing the cyber man. All of those scenes are really
• 3:24:56
  well done. Yeah, I think this.
• 3:24:58
  Is great. I think I think it's a genuinely
• 3:25:00
  exciting story. You know, when we're talking
• 3:25:02
  about AZ bomb, a doomsday weapon that could be going off, that
• 3:25:06
  could split a planet in half, we're sort of talking in
• 3:25:10
  apocalyptic terms come episode 4.
• 3:25:13
  It's a genuinely climactic end to the heart of the era.
• 3:25:17
  And because we're doing the base under siege for the first time,
• 3:25:21
  once again, Hartnell got there first, and that pleases me no
• 3:25:25
  end. I think this is fabulous.
• 3:25:26
  And Martinez's direction on the whole, and this is just really,
• 3:25:30
  really well done, very stylish. There's some great directions in
• 3:25:34
  the tail and the Hartnell, and this is another great example.
• 3:25:37
  Keep, keep, keep. OK, we have it as one of every
• 3:25:41
  story tonight on a split vote. I know.
• 3:25:46
  So David, you're playing good on this one.
• 3:25:49
  Well, David, remember how many hits that video got?
• 3:25:52
  All right, Yes, I know. And I have talked about 10th
• 3:25:56
  Planet a lot. I have.
• 3:25:59
  I have picked this story apart, and I will continue to do so.
• 3:26:04
  Do I hold back? Do I tease?
• 3:26:06
  Do I try and love it? I love it.
• 3:26:11
  I do. It's not without its faults.
• 3:26:14
  And I think, yeah, you know, yes, the doctor doesn't get
• 3:26:19
  center stage as much as maybe he probably should.
• 3:26:24
  But I've just got such. There's a lot of warm memories.
• 3:26:28
  And this is the first bootleg I ever got.
• 3:26:31
  And there was something really quite, you know, that naughty
• 3:26:33
  thrill of like, you know, if you think about it, sending a blank
• 3:26:36
  tape off to some random plug bloke off the Internet who's
• 3:26:39
  going to send it back to you. I mean, it's quite dodgy when
• 3:26:44
  you're thinking. What a belief.
• 3:26:45
  I call back David. I don't think well time last
• 3:26:50
  episodes one and two. Oh my God, I think I think porn
• 3:26:55
  would be more exciting. So you know, watching that and
• 3:27:00
  there was that kind of like you put it on your am I actually
• 3:27:02
  watching a 10th planet? I should be watching this.
• 3:27:04
  This is a this is illegal. Surely as I sat and watched it
• 3:27:07
  watched a interesting Recon It was it took bits from episodes
• 3:27:11
  one to three and kind of dubbed over episode 4 and it was quite
• 3:27:14
  imaginatively done and yes you know the plot sidemen attack
• 3:27:20
  they go away they're missing for episode 3 apart from a really
• 3:27:23
  cool action sequence and on the snow landscape.
• 3:27:27
  But that my 3 reasons the original sidemen design that's
• 3:27:32
  already been covered the eyes. It was always held up for years
• 3:27:35
  that the eyes was a mistake, but they no one can remember, so
• 3:27:40
  let's just assume the other hands were visible.
• 3:27:41
  The eyes were visible because Martinez catches them in the
• 3:27:44
  light more than once. So that's not an accident.
• 3:27:49
  I think the seller tape holding them together was.
• 3:27:51
  And that's the problem with remastering, because now you
• 3:27:53
  can't miss the seller tape that's holding them.
• 3:27:55
  Even that it. Just looks cobbled together in a
• 3:28:00
  but there's no horrific way, you know, if you want to do head
• 3:28:02
  cannon, there's often to say that therefore you know the side
• 3:28:05
  men have their helmets taped together.
• 3:28:08
  Mondeus falling apart. Mondeus falling to bits.
• 3:28:13
  Yeah, the voices, the design. Yeah, we.
• 3:28:15
  I think I was one of those kids who laughed at it at first.
• 3:28:17
  But now I look at it going, I can see what they were doing.
• 3:28:19
  I see what they were going for. And it's a shame that they kind
• 3:28:22
  of when they brought them back in the moon base, they look more
• 3:28:26
  just like robots in slightly ill fitting suits.
• 3:28:30
  But this is such an iconic design.
• 3:28:34
  You mentioned Derek Martinus and his direction, and I can't
• 3:28:38
  really add much more to that. He directs it.
• 3:28:40
  So he directs to a side man's legs at one point.
• 3:28:43
  You know, that's you don't get stuff like that.
• 3:28:48
  There's a whole bit with Ben in the ventilation shaft, which I
• 3:28:51
  did a video on Go find out on YouTube.
• 3:28:53
  But just the ballet of camera moves going on.
• 3:28:56
  Because with the limited amount of sets and everything, it's
• 3:28:58
  like that. That's a director being really
• 3:29:00
  inventive and creative at the end of Episode 3.
• 3:29:04
  I think it's absolutely fantastic.
• 3:29:05
  I think it's such a great cliffhanger and you it's one of
• 3:29:10
  those things that it's only when somebody points out that the
• 3:29:13
  last shot before they cut to the rocket Telecine, there is A1
• 3:29:17
  continuous tracking shot across most of the cast.
• 3:29:20
  It starts on Ben and Polly and Pans and it takes in some of the
• 3:29:24
  extras, takes in Barclay takes it and then pushes into Cutler
• 3:29:28
  and that's all done in a single shot.
• 3:29:31
  And bear in mind how they're doing these.
• 3:29:32
  They're doing these practically is live.
• 3:29:34
  So they would have this is a tense.
• 3:29:36
  The tension in that cliffhanger as well is.
• 3:29:39
  And it's overlaying the numbers as well.
• 3:29:41
  And the number and the numbers, it's everyone loves the
• 3:29:44
  countdown cliffhanger. The end of Inferno episode 4 is
• 3:29:47
  the same way. Countdown cliffhangers are
• 3:29:48
  fantastic. So it's such a wonderful bit of
• 3:29:50
  direction. David, he does it in one as
• 3:29:52
  well. He starts on the the pictures of
• 3:29:57
  the ladies on the wall, he pulls back the Italian guys on the
• 3:30:02
  bunk, he pulls back again and there's someone else there in
• 3:30:06
  the next sort of level. And then he pulls back again and
• 3:30:09
  the guy's at the Periscope and he takes in the whole room.
• 3:30:13
  It's just so sophisticated and I think one of the cleverest bits.
• 3:30:20
  Obviously there's no real budget to do a lot of model work.
• 3:30:22
  We have a couple of models, but not much.
• 3:30:24
  There's no shots to use for in space, but they have to show
• 3:30:29
  it's destruction. And how does he do it is the
• 3:30:32
  monitors just go dark and the music stops and at that point
• 3:30:37
  and everybody reacts, you instantly know what's going on.
• 3:30:39
  It's a wonderful economic bit of direction and just lands it
• 3:30:44
  really well. And I think that's superb
• 3:30:46
  moment. But I think my main reason for
• 3:30:49
  this, I'm going to, I've mentioned Hartnell more than
• 3:30:52
  once, but I'm going to mention him again because bear in mind,
• 3:30:56
  he's been brought back on a four week contract.
• 3:30:58
  He did three of them. But you know, he's effectively,
• 3:31:01
  he was gone. He was no longer the main castle
• 3:31:03
  they brought it back at for just these four.
• 3:31:05
  And he obviously didn't want to leave.
• 3:31:08
  So he could have been fucked off.
• 3:31:10
  He could have just turned up and yeah, phoned it in or whatever.
• 3:31:14
  He doesn't, he gave, you know, whatever dialogue he's given, he
• 3:31:17
  he does it. And correct me if I'm wrong, he
• 3:31:22
  doesn't fluff. You know, if OK, you just
• 3:31:24
  compare the script, he's kind of around the lines.
• 3:31:26
  He's not always word perfect, but then neither is Robert
• 3:31:28
  Beattie. Robert Beattie is very rarely
• 3:31:30
  actually given the lines as written.
• 3:31:31
  He's giving the gist. But Hartnell does not fluff.
• 3:31:35
  Ben does. Michael Crais gets a great fluff
• 3:31:37
  in episode 4 where you get the planet Mandos, but Hartnell is
• 3:31:43
  on top of it. And the scenes in episode 2 is
• 3:31:44
  confronting assignment. That clip that gets used all the
• 3:31:47
  time. You know, emotions, love, pride,
• 3:31:49
  hate, fear. Have you no emotions that were
• 3:31:51
  such a great moment? But I don't.
• 3:31:53
  Disagree with some of the comments.
• 3:31:55
  He gets some great moments in episode 4 because he comes back
• 3:32:00
  and once Cutler's dispatched, he takes charge and he's the one
• 3:32:04
  negotiating with side men. And he still has a few scenes
• 3:32:07
  where he's indignant and he's got his rage and he's got his
• 3:32:09
  anger. So I don't think if we could
• 3:32:12
  just because so little of it's covered in the teller snaps,
• 3:32:15
  there's very little of it. Probably some of the cineclips.
• 3:32:18
  I think if we could see it, so I disagree with London Calling in
• 3:32:21
  the comments and I think we should see it because I think we
• 3:32:23
  would see Hartnell's last great performance and that is there in
• 3:32:26
  the 1st 2/3. Yes, he gets sent off to the
• 3:32:29
  spaceship and he passes out. All that was seeded in episode
• 3:32:33
  3, which we've lost because I some of the video I did where I
• 3:32:37
  tried to unpick what actually Hartnell's role was in episode
• 3:32:39
  3, which is mostly to be ill. But he would have also had some
• 3:32:42
  great exposition where he would have done the this is what's
• 3:32:45
  good. All stuff that Barclay and Ben
• 3:32:46
  do that would have been was like the doctor and that would have
• 3:32:49
  been really important. And it's a real shame that we
• 3:32:52
  had to lose that because thank God he was ill that week and not
• 3:32:54
  a week later. He's so unafraid of the camera
• 3:32:57
  in part fraud. You know, the bit where he goes,
• 3:32:59
  it's far from being all over. He's like, come on, grill out
• 3:33:02
  camera over here. And I'm waiting for like close
• 3:33:06
  up Mr. DeMille. Bad.
• 3:33:07
  He's right in it, isn't he? Because there's a bit of telly
• 3:33:09
  film of that. Yeah, it's a great moment and
• 3:33:14
  the regeneration scene is plastic and of course it's not
• 3:33:17
  just the bit that we've seen over the years, the build up,
• 3:33:19
  the we've got that on the clips as well with the console going
• 3:33:22
  mad and the lighting is down. We've got all those quick cuts.
• 3:33:26
  It's like it's a it's a great sequence.
• 3:33:29
  I would love to be able to see that sequence properly, but it's
• 3:33:33
  such a great moment and it builds the atmosphere.
• 3:33:35
  This is, yeah, the the stuff for the plot.
• 3:33:38
  And at times, what is the Cyberman's plot?
• 3:33:40
  What was their plan? Because they're coming down
• 3:33:41
  episode 2 to take everyone's do the interviews and get their
• 3:33:45
  details. And then by episode 4, it's
• 3:33:47
  we're just going to blow it up. But it doesn't matter.
• 3:33:51
  And I think finally we should thank, you know that Mister
• 3:33:56
  weakness, Steve Plightus gets his lines right and doesn't have
• 3:33:59
  to say the word fuck under his breast like he does when he's in
• 3:34:01
  The Avengers. I'm going to have to, every time
• 3:34:03
  he's in something I talk about, I have to smuggle that in
• 3:34:05
  particular. Tip it in.
• 3:34:08
  But yeah, it's tense planet. Of course we can't bin it.
• 3:34:11
  OK? That's what the Cyberman's plan
• 3:34:13
  is. It's a fucking twin planet of
• 3:34:15
  Earth flying through space with a load of mechanical men on it.
• 3:34:18
  I mean, that's all you need. That somehow going to turn into
• 3:34:22
  a sun. Wonderful.
• 3:34:26
  But we can't do Dame Doctor Bollocks signs because there was
• 3:34:29
  every story be in the bin. I love how practical every story
• 3:34:33
  has been, like 3 against one. Everything is split to one
• 3:34:40
  either way, so we have 4 stories left.
• 3:34:44
  We have the gunfighters, the war machines, the smugglers and, as
• 3:34:51
  you just heard, the 10th planet. That's not bad, Gary. 4 or 6,
• 3:34:56
  yes. Cap music please.
• 3:34:59
  Cap music a go. Yes, please.
• 3:35:04
  OK. Our first one is.
• 3:35:06
  We love justice, and we'll see who's going next.
• 3:35:12
  Against the 10th planet. Oh please, the 10th planet.
• 3:35:18
  Oh. I missed that the dropped out
• 3:35:22
  10th planet and. The smugglers against the 10th
• 3:35:25
  planet. Come on, David, good grief.
• 3:35:31
  Think of those hits on YouTube, you know?
• 3:35:35
  Think about which model there is an entirely missing story.
• 3:35:41
  Oh, I, I, I'm going to let the dramatic music play out.
• 3:35:44
  I've got to string this out. I love the Smugglers.
• 3:35:47
  I think The Smugglers is underrated.
• 3:35:51
  When it's when, when it gets animated, I think it's a
• 3:35:55
  definite opportunity for it to be reappraised.
• 3:35:58
  Who knows, maybe it's one of those rumoured missing episodes
• 3:36:01
  that we might say, but the 10th planet, you know, things like
• 3:36:05
  Martinus's direction, which I've just been waxing lyrical about
• 3:36:09
  the yeah, it has 3/10 planet. I'm going to go for the
• 3:36:16
  smugglers after everything I've said.
• 3:36:17
  So freezer. Well.
• 3:36:23
  Man. It's.
• 3:36:30
  The past in the future, isn't it?
• 3:36:31
  It's the historical, which is great.
• 3:36:34
  It's oh, it's the the short come man.
• 3:36:44
  I want to say smugglers, but. You know in your heart the 10
• 3:36:49
  planet is a better story. I know you want to say to
• 3:36:51
  smugglers to be contrary. No, I don't want.
• 3:36:55
  I don't want. Yeah, you do.
• 3:36:59
  You do those based on the siege, those iconic monsters of
• 3:37:05
  generation. You know, it's a better story.
• 3:37:09
  Is. It it's not fun.
• 3:37:11
  Don't listen to the fun police. This this is.
• 3:37:14
  It's fun. What are you talking about?
• 3:37:16
  I've been marching through the snow but.
• 3:37:18
  There's no pirates in it, is there?
• 3:37:20
  There's no pirates. Exactly.
• 3:37:22
  Boring. I think.
• 3:37:26
  Of course we do want to go to bed at some point tonight.
• 3:37:30
  Possibly. Maybe.
• 3:37:34
  What happens? What happens if we have a
• 3:37:35
  deadlock, John? How does this get decided?
• 3:37:37
  Oh. I'll tell you what, we'll we'll,
• 3:37:41
  we'll go again after that, we'll go to, we'll redraw.
• 3:37:48
  Smugglers, then. Hey, I love you, Fraser.
• 3:37:53
  OK, so with that in mind, we now have the gunfighters against,
• 3:38:01
  not the gunfighters, the gunfighters against the
• 3:38:04
  smugglers. Oh please.
• 3:38:06
  Oh, gunfighters. The smugglers.
• 3:38:09
  Easier the smugglers. Did you say, John, the best of
• 3:38:15
  the bunch was the gunfighters? I think that's what you said in
• 3:38:19
  your argument. Joe, I'm trying to create
• 3:38:21
  tension in here. Oh.
• 3:38:22
  Sorry. That is what you said.
• 3:38:27
  I love them. Remember the phone, Remember the
• 3:38:29
  payments? It's.
• 3:38:32
  It's Cowboys. It's pirates and Cowboys.
• 3:38:34
  Cowboys. Better than Cowboys?
• 3:38:36
  Kate on the bar, A little glass of milk.
• 3:38:39
  I'll be just delighted. Ben and Polly.
• 3:38:44
  Dodo go. Polly, we didn't.
• 3:38:47
  We didn't mention Stephen singing It's the World, Westrom.
• 3:38:53
  I pulled. Off out on location.
• 3:39:03
  We know you're going to pick the gunfires.
• 3:39:04
  Will you get on with it? I'm going to go.
• 3:39:06
  I'm going to pick the gunfighters.
• 3:39:11
  Are we going to have to go through all this again, The kind
• 3:39:13
  of the the devil and the Angel on my shoulder trying to get to
• 3:39:15
  be wished right to go? No, no, you're going to pick the
• 3:39:18
  gunfighters as well. Of course they're going to pick
• 3:39:20
  the gunfighters. Which is our.
• 3:39:21
  Champion the smugglers being you boring bullshit.
• 3:39:26
  Oh, the smugglers falls. Joe is the happiest I've ever.
• 3:39:29
  Seen. Absolutely.
• 3:39:32
  OK. And I don't have the 10th planet
• 3:39:40
  against the war machines. That's tough, actually.
• 3:39:47
  It's not. It's the 10th planet.
• 3:39:48
  That is really tough. No, I think I was just for the
• 3:39:52
  Inferno nightclub scenes. I'll choose the war machines.
• 3:39:59
  And funnily enough, because I've made it clear, I'm going to be
• 3:40:04
  going with the war machines. So, David?
• 3:40:09
  Oh God, this is tough because I love them both.
• 3:40:14
  David, I'll dig your fab gear again.
• 3:40:17
  If what would I put on now? I wouldn't put it on now because
• 3:40:20
  I'm going to bed. But you said you'd put it on
• 3:40:23
  like even I think actually I think I did put on the wall
• 3:40:26
  machines and just have so much fun with it.
• 3:40:30
  Yeah. That that wasn't until we put
• 3:40:32
  the idea of the 10th planet in your head.
• 3:40:36
  It's true, but also Doctor Who. Wait, it's cool because they're
• 3:40:40
  better than in it baby. Is it the well done or is bring
• 3:40:45
  big man? To me.
• 3:40:49
  Come to Mondas, you will not need to make these decisions.
• 3:40:53
  We will write them for you. I'm just going to sit here, wait
• 3:40:57
  and just see how more observed this get.
• 3:41:00
  I'm going to try and save us. We are 4 minutes to midnight and
• 3:41:04
  you know we finishing a strict before midnight is a should be
• 3:41:07
  record-breaking. It's the it's the war machines.
• 3:41:09
  Oh. Yeah, so the 10th.
• 3:41:13
  Planet. Don't like you.
• 3:41:14
  You don't like your hair in your face, Eddie?
• 3:41:18
  That's all I'm saying on the 10th.
• 3:41:20
  Planet is great though to be fair.
• 3:41:22
  Send. US planet.
• 3:41:25
  So we have our final we. Have.
• 3:41:29
  The war machines we have. Look at Frasers fighters.
• 3:41:33
  The Terry hated the mouth. No, I'm sorry.
• 3:41:37
  No, the savages is right down there.
• 3:41:40
  Savages. Going to make it through though.
• 3:41:42
  Well for me it's an easy win for the gunfighters.
• 3:41:46
  Just perfection. Yeah, I'm not going to drag it
• 3:41:52
  out. I am simply in the gunfighters
• 3:41:54
  because of everything that Joe has been telling you.
• 3:41:57
  I. Don't want to know which one
• 3:41:59
  that Fraser's going to pick though.
• 3:42:00
  Rather too. Yeah, that's good, David.
• 3:42:03
  Increase the tension, go for the war machines and let phrase no,
• 3:42:05
  don't do that, God's sake, do what you want.
• 3:42:09
  You know this is Strictly and there will be something
• 3:42:12
  wonderful that the winner of Strictly season 3 B slash 4A
• 3:42:16
  would be the much more aligned and hated gun.
• 3:42:18
  Focus. Possibly for that reason alone,
• 3:42:24
  I'm going to War Machines is one of my favorite stories, but I'm
• 3:42:27
  going to vote Gunfighters because it's also one of my
• 3:42:29
  favorite stories. David, I never figured you for a
• 3:42:32
  back shooter. Nobody did.
• 3:42:34
  That's why I hid myself for years.
• 3:42:37
  But Fraser, what would you have gone for?
• 3:42:39
  The smugglers. No, you've got to.
• 3:42:42
  Choose. One, it's irrelevant.
• 3:42:44
  You don't have to choose. You should have went to meet
• 3:42:47
  you. Should have made you.
• 3:42:48
  Saw a loser. You missed the.
• 3:42:50
  Opportunity there. We're not going to bed till
• 3:42:52
  Fraser chooses. That's fine, I'm on night shift.
• 3:42:57
  A moment when you guys need to be up.
• 3:43:01
  I think he. Probably would have gone.
• 3:43:03
  For the war machines out of the two of them.
• 3:43:04
  Yes I would have went for the war machines.
• 3:43:06
  The reason being I think the direction of the war machines is
• 3:43:09
  better than the gunfighters, although both are good.
• 3:43:13
  I think Ferguson edges it over, took her.
• 3:43:17
  I think the plots both are fairly dross.
• 3:43:24
  I think there's better in the war machines though.
• 3:43:29
  I think you know, you know what would really make the
• 3:43:32
  gunfighters really good? If Doc Holiday wasn't in it.
• 3:43:36
  And Doctor Who. Doctor Who got mistaken for Doc
• 3:43:41
  Holiday at the whole way through.
• 3:43:45
  That means taking out Anthony Jacobs and denying Matthew
• 3:43:48
  Jacobs, writer of the TV movie The joy of his father being in a
• 3:43:54
  Hartnell classic. But you are father suggesting
• 3:43:58
  that. Just think of, you know, the
• 3:44:01
  doctor is mistaken, the doc already all the way through
• 3:44:04
  right up until the final gunfight.
• 3:44:06
  That would be really interesting.
• 3:44:07
  And but yeah, I just can't get away from just how how poorly
• 3:44:11
  he's written. Yeah, Hartner loves it.
• 3:44:13
  Hartner loves the comedy, and he plays up the way Jackie Lane.
• 3:44:17
  You know, I think we do need to say if everything I've said
• 3:44:19
  negative about Dodo, I think, you know, Jackie Lane, you know,
• 3:44:23
  comes in, does the five jobs that's expected about because
• 3:44:26
  Dodo is just so poorly written across all 5 episodes.
• 3:44:29
  There's no consistency with her whatsoever.
• 3:44:32
  But that's not Jackie Lane's fault.
• 3:44:33
  She comes in and does everything that is the quiet of her in that
• 3:44:36
  particular episode, and she does it really well.
• 3:44:39
  I mean, I think Dodo's better than Amy Palm, so like, I don't
• 3:44:43
  know, I'm sure if I should have an opinion on these things, but
• 3:44:46
  no, no, I'd much rather watch Dodo.
• 3:44:48
  You're absolutely right with that.
• 3:44:50
  Thank you. Thank you, David and Kevin.
• 3:44:53
  Gillman at least has a consistent accent.
• 3:44:57
  No she doesn't. You're in the fire spot by.
• 3:45:00
  I can't believe they think right.
• 3:45:02
  OK, so Dodo can't have an accent because that's not allowed.
• 3:45:06
  She can't have a regional accent.
• 3:45:08
  Who we're going to replace her with?
• 3:45:09
  Cockney Stephen. That's right.
• 3:45:15
  Yeah, it's it's the the flaws in the war machines are less than
• 3:45:20
  the flaws in the the good. Although I think what we should
• 3:45:23
  sort of come away from, don't listen to Fraser because we're
• 3:45:26
  sort of the top two stories we've got here are the war
• 3:45:29
  machines and the gunfires, both of which will be going through.
• 3:45:32
  So the next thing and are both fabulous.
• 3:45:35
  And I mean, I think two of the best directed stories of the
• 3:45:39
  heart of era just blissful. I never.
• 3:45:44
  Figured any different? Quick, let's do our thing so we
• 3:45:52
  can go to bed. What?
• 3:45:54
  Well, but before we take our trip off the Tombstone and the
• 3:45:58
  Last Chance Saloon for a glass of milk, it's typed by the where
• 3:46:02
  we can find everyone on the Internet.
• 3:46:04
  Fraser, why don't you plug your blog?
• 3:46:08
  I don't mention it much, but I've got a blog called Skies
• 3:46:12
  fullofdiamonds.wordpress.com where you can find my 60
• 3:46:17
  greatest Doctor Who stories, which is an official ranking,
• 3:46:21
  much more official than any nonsense that gets put out on
• 3:46:24
  this podcast. And you can find me on on
• 3:46:27
  podcasts of various ilks out there.
• 3:46:31
  And but mostly after tonight, you're going to find me drinking
• 3:46:33
  more whiskey than the guys in the last one, the Plankton's.
• 3:46:37
  WWWW Yeah. Thought I've.
• 3:46:39
  Heard. Some insanity tonight.
• 3:46:41
  Go read that blog. I mean it's please phrase it
• 3:46:44
  honest to God. I mean, I wish you'd write for
• 3:46:46
  all the rest of the stories as well, because even though your
• 3:46:49
  rankings is absolute madness, your writing is amazing.
• 3:46:54
  Well, thank you. I'm surprised you want to hear
• 3:46:56
  more from me after after what I've put you through.
• 3:46:58
  Oh. No, it's the most fun I've had
• 3:47:00
  in weeks. That's.
• 3:47:03
  Good. Battling with you is the most
• 3:47:06
  fun I could possibly have. Oh, it's, it's just been
• 3:47:11
  delightful watching your love affair in action.
• 3:47:14
  Like, I mean, I've sort of enjoyed it when it spilled out
• 3:47:16
  and then you started battling with John as well.
• 3:47:18
  That was quite fun too. David, you are the peacemaker
• 3:47:22
  here. Of course I usually am, although
• 3:47:27
  how you've got steadily more sober throughout the call have
• 3:47:29
  been very amusing. It's the opposite to the usual
• 3:47:33
  strictly most people need to get more drunk before they get to as
• 3:47:36
  they get to the end. And where can we find you on
• 3:47:38
  been 4 fucking? How much guys?
• 3:47:40
  Of course he's going. To we've.
• 3:47:43
  Also but. I have a YouTube channel which
• 3:47:46
  is Search Dave Guys, We Pratt and you'll find it.
• 3:47:49
  I might have plugged it a few times this evening if you like.
• 3:47:53
  Really detailed things on missing episodes and camera
• 3:47:57
  scripts and oh look, a photograph.
• 3:47:59
  Let's take talk about for 10 minutes to go.
• 3:48:01
  And find it. Yeah, that's me.
• 3:48:04
  I mean, look, you now can't see what I'm seeing right now, but
• 3:48:08
  David's got his arms folded, right?
• 3:48:10
  David, your arms look so impressive, I've just had to
• 3:48:12
  take a picture. You know.
• 3:48:13
  Honestly, how muscle are you? Sorry, I've realized I'm
• 3:48:16
  starting now. I've ended.
• 3:48:17
  No, I ended now. I've started.
• 3:48:19
  Oh, fuck. It's been 4 hours.
• 3:48:21
  I'm here and I have some real blood pen knife.
• 3:48:23
  John, where are you? I'm on Blue Sky Journal.
• 3:48:27
  I'm on Hamster fairly frequently with someone who knows
• 3:48:31
  absolutely nothing about Doctor Who and Joe.
• 3:48:35
  Oh, I thought. You were talking about me.
• 3:48:40
  You love the gunfighters. What can I say against that?
• 3:48:43
  Taste. There's 4 black archives
• 3:48:47
  available from all good obvious books websites.
• 3:48:49
  You do it anymore. Yeah, I might, I might have a
• 3:48:54
  try. Be trying to pitch one shortly.
• 3:48:56
  Did you know our James Lark is doing the Arc in Space?
• 3:49:02
  Yes, he's doing it right now. One day if it'll be you have
• 3:49:09
  more jokes in it than Matt Barbers.
• 3:49:12
  Definitely. Yeah, what?
• 3:49:14
  1 Joe? As if anyone did though.
• 3:49:20
  Where can you be fined? I sort of just said it here,
• 3:49:24
  right here on the haps of a blood pen knife.
• 3:49:26
  Well, I will say to everybody, the next episode, season 2 is
• 3:49:32
  the very final season of Strictly Come Hamster to be
• 3:49:36
  covered. And then there are 9 Doctor ones
• 3:49:40
  and a finale. We could be done by the end of
• 3:49:42
  the year folks, and Strictly shall be no more.
• 3:49:49
  What means they're fucking going to better it.
• 3:49:53
  Was bad work work? Oh, don't you worry, we'll all
• 3:49:57
  be hamster baiting before you know it.
• 3:50:01
  As if we don't already. OK, well how do we end this sort
• 3:50:07
  of thing in a series 3B4A sort of a way?
• 3:50:10
  Well, if you will indulge me, gentlemen.
• 3:50:14
  Go ahead. It's curtains for the war
• 3:50:17
  machines. They've gunned the story down
• 3:50:21
  and then bad cool gob shites are heading for town.
• 3:50:27
  On your way, their new podcasters.
• 3:50:29
  The time will be soon when they're smut upon the sword to
• 3:50:34
  stop the Last Chance Saloon. The.
• 3:51:43
  The. I.