Latest / Karl and Crew / Guiding Your Children Toward Lifelong Faith with Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. & Discipleship Beyond Small Groups with Dr. Eric Redmond

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Guiding Your Children Toward Lifelong Faith with Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. & Discipleship Beyond Small Groups with Dr. Eric Redmond · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
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  S2: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S5: There are some things that you can do that gets
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  S5: people on boarded and moving along. And they all run
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  S5: off the same manual or quick start guide, right? So
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  S5: if you have got a brand new microwave installed into
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  S5: your home, it's good to open the manual. Look at
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  S5: how all the buttons work. And everybody kind of follows
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  S5: the same grid, right? Yes. I mean, everybody on boards
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  S5: the same way. Um, what are some other things that
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  S5: we have in life where it's like everybody follows this
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  S5: linear path? You get on boarded. This is the way
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  S5: we roll here.
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  S2: I mean, most jobs have a particular way that they
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  S2: onboard employees. And there's maybe trainings that you go through.
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  S2: And I remember my very first day here at Moody
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  S2: eight and a half years ago, and you spend day
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  S2: one in just directly working with HR and doing just
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  S2: kind of big picture overview trainings of the institute as
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  S2: a whole before you even get to your specific team.
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  S2: So that's something that's not unique to Moody, but most
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  S2: employees have an onboarding system.
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  S5: I remember that day. Yes, there's about ten others in
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  S5: the room with me that day.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Mine was just me and maybe 1 or 2 other people.
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  S2: It was October of 2017. Believe it or not.
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  S5: Oh my goodness.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S3: It's been a long time.
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  S2: Very first day. October 16th, 2017. My very first day.
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  S5: Wow.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S5: Wow. So what else guys do we see in life
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  S5: where it's like everybody has the same playbook and we're
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  S5: kind of moving along this way.
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  S3: Uh, I mean, there's like certain cultural etiquette type of things.
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  S3: You know, if I'm at the store and someone is
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  S3: in line to check out, I don't just kind of
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  S3: mosey my way up in front of them and then
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  S3: slip in and say, well, you haven't checked out yet,
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  S3: so I can hop in here. Is there a law
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  S3: against it? No, but there's a cultural etiquette to. That
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  S3: ain't cool. Don't do that. Get in your place in
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  S3: line and wait.
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  S2: Yeah. And moving through an airport.
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  S4: If the laws of the road. Yeah.
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  S5: Airport laws of the road.
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  S3: There is airport etiquette, man.
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  S2: Not even just etiquette. There's. I mean, there are very
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  S2: strict systems in place as to how you are to
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  S2: move through that place. And if you deviate. Oh, you're
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  S2: going to know about it very quickly.
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  S3: There's no rules against it. But I don't like this one.
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  S3: At the airport, when people are walking around with like
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  S3: AirPods in and they're just kind of moseying, like they
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  S3: don't have a care in the world, and I'll get
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  S3: where I get when I'm getting there. And they're walking
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  S3: in the middle and I'm like, okay. But like, there's
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  S3: some people here, including me, who really need to get
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  S3: where they're going. And I kind of need you to
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  S3: kind of get on the wall.
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  S2: To.
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  S3: Catch here. You're gonna mosey. You gotta get on the
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  S3: wall so I can get through.
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  S6: All right.
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  S5: It's really good. Yeah. I'm having deep thoughts this morning because, uh,
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  S5: the unique thing about discipleship is that we all get
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  S5: on boarded in the same way. Blessed are the poor
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  S5: in spirit. We've been tackling that all week long. When
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  S5: we come to that realization that I am spiritually bankrupt.
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  S5: We're all on board. But then everything's different for each
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  S5: person on this path of discipleship. And I look at
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  S5: our own team here right now, and I think about
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  S5: when we were born again. All of us had issues
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  S5: that needed issues is the wrong word. We let's get
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  S5: real specific. Uh, we either had ways of thinking or
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  S5: ways of acting that needed to be brought into conformity
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  S5: to the person of Christ. And we will never stop
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  S5: that journey, by the way.
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  S2: Usually both ways of thinking and ways of acting. Yeah.
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  S2: Usually there's.
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  S5: Yeah, there's no way to kind of separate those.
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  S2: Right? Yeah.
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  S5: And so it's, it's interesting because for, for many years
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  S5: in the church, I think most attempts to make disciples
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  S5: have been around kind of Curriculum that you get into
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  S5: a discipleship kind of pattern and you move this way.
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  S5: And these are the truths you need to to move
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  S5: a certain direction. The thing I'm finding out the older
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  S5: I get is that discipleship and that means apprenticeship of
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  S5: Jesus Christ. We're all called to be disciples. That's the
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  S5: 269 times you see the word disciple or follower in
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  S5: the New Testament. It's as unique as each person as
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  S5: far as direct application goes. So we are all called
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  S5: to this path of apprenticeship of Christ, bringing our lives
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  S5: into conformity with the son, Jesus Christ, Son of God.
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  S5: And it's a beautiful thing. But the the older I get,
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  S5: the more I'm realizing we give principles for growth kind
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  S5: of buckets in which to think in. And then we
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  S5: find people focusing on different aspects of things that usually
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  S5: come out of childhood. Upbringing. Family of origin. Kind of
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  S5: the peer group that we ran with, right?
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  S2: Sure. Like trying to get untangled from certain systems and
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  S2: patterns that are clearly holding us back.
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  S5: Yeah. For sure. Um, you know, when I was young
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  S5: in Christ, uh, boy, I was a take the hill guy, right?
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  S5: And I still am in many ways, but I'm, I
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  S5: was a take the hill guy. Um, I had a
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  S5: great Dean sat me down the end of my first
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  S5: year at Bible College and he handed me a book.
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  S5: When I relaxed, I feel guilty and he saw something
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  S5: in me that was really good. And he just he,
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  S5: he was used mightily in my life to let me
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  S5: know the pressure's off. You do not have to perform
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  S5: for God. You. You are not. You're not on this
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  S5: hopeless treadmill of efforting, Carl. And it was a great
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  S5: little book. I forget who the author was of that book.
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  S5: When I relaxed, I feel guilty. But it was it
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  S5: was a it was a good little wake up call.
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  S5: But all of us have something. And it's very unique.
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  S5: This is why there's no one size fits all for
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  S5: a discipleship curriculum. You can have a shared language. You
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  S5: can have a shared kind of target of what it
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  S5: looks like. Look at the deeds of the flesh versus
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  S5: the fruit of the spirit. Those guide us, but how
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  S5: we how we take steps in the power of the
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  S5: Holy Spirit to follow Jesus Christ. It looks different for
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  S5: every person out there.
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  S2: Well, you know, I'm thinking about the Timothy initiative. We
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  S2: featured them a lot because they, you know, they're incredible
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  S2: global ministry, church planting all over the world and training
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  S2: up people to plant churches. And, you know, they, they
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  S2: have a pretty dialed in system, but obviously how it
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  S2: applies to each person is different, right? I mean, but
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  S2: they've they've got it dialed in.
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  S5: Yeah. And what's I'm so glad you brought that up
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  S5: because I had a great talk with David Nelms about that.
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  S5: And the, the cool thing I think about the Timothy
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  S5: initiative is they give you these incredible truths. Like they
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  S5: start with the power of the Holy Spirit in their
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  S5: first booklet that's translated into, I don't know how many
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  S5: languages now. And it's, it's delving into the power of
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  S5: the Holy Spirit, why we need to raise the sales
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  S5: of our soul to. And they use that metaphor, by
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  S5: the way, to stay in touch, stay grounded with God.
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  S5: But then as I was talking with David, every person
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  S5: has unique story that how that's going to impact them
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  S5: plays out differently for each person. So it's just, it's
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  S5: just interesting because having been a pastor for a lot
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  S5: of years, I think I, I think I was more
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  S5: of a rancher than a shepherd in my early years
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  S5: where you want to move people, um, down this path.
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  S5: And a rancher kind of gets up on a horse
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  S5: and he's either out in front of him or out
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  S5: behind him. And you're, you're trying to move the cattle,
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  S5: but when you're moving sheep, it's a totally different deal.
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  S5: You're out in front, you're caring, you're sensitive to each
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  S5: person's each of the sheep's needs. And invariably, you know,
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  S5: you look, you look so look at a bunch of sheep.
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  S5: And here's what we kind of miss. The forest for
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  S5: the trees. Every one of those sheep has a unique personality. Guys,
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  S5: you know what I'm saying?
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S5: They've all got their own little thing about them. And
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  S5: I know this from Mushing Dogs. You can look at
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  S5: a team of 16 huskies mushing down a trail. And
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  S5: you could think that's a pretty monolithic group. No, man.
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  S5: Any good dog musher will tell you each one of
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  S5: those dogs is so unique, and I love talking with
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  S5: the guys that are competing in that race now. There
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  S5: is more attention given to given to the individual needs
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  S5: of those dogs than ever before. And isn't it interesting
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  S5: that they're running that race twice as fast as they
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  S5: did when I was running?
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  S2: Oh, really?
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  S5: Oh, yeah.
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  S2: Wow.
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  S5: Some dogs need to have every stop thighs rubbed out,
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  S5: certain muscles massaged. Some dogs need feet. Treated. All dogs
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  S5: have what mushers call head issues. In other words, there's
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  S5: things going on in their mind that you've got to.
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  S5: You've got to help them. Some dogs can't handle running
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  S5: and lead. It's too much pressure. They can maybe for
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  S5: a couple of hundred miles, but then they got to
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  S5: put them back in the team and take the mental
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  S5: pressure off. And a good dog musher can tell when
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  S5: a husky is feeling mental pressure by their gait, by
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  S5: the way they're running by whether their head is up
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  S5: two inches or down two inches. Isn't that fascinating?
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  S2: Fascinating.
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  S5: Oh, I love this topic because discipleship is not one
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  S5: size fits all, but we are all moving down the
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  S5: trail of faith, Ali.
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  S2: And so much of it. I mean, when you just
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  S2: boil it all down, it's obedience to the Word of God.
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  S2: I mean, that is the foundation of of discipleship, right? Yes, yes.
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  S2: We're moving forward.
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  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
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  S5: Ah, man, I got a got a great staff member
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  S5: and pastor of a couple of campuses of a church
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  S5: called 180 Chicago here. And one of my staff guys,
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  S5: his name is Scott. Just a great brother. He just
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  S5: texted me and he said, man, this is one of
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  S5: the most important conversations you guys have had.
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  S6: Oh, wow. How encouraging.
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  S5: Isn't that great?
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  S2: That's really encouraging.
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  S6: So great.
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  S5: Yeah. And it's it's because we're in the middle of
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  S5: really moving toward discipleship. In fact, I'm just going to
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  S5: read you what he said. Here. He goes, man, this
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  S5: rancher versus shepherd would be amazing for people to hear
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  S5: at the kickoff of revelation. Revelation 1230. Excellent way to
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  S5: explain what each person at 180 needs to do in
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  S5: order to kick off discipleship with others. So he's saying this,
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  S5: seeing the uniqueness of each person that we're all not
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  S5: just cookie cutters, trying to get them through some discipleship plan, right?
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  S5: But that we're bringing them. Oh goodness sake, Scott, you're
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  S5: going to get me crying here, man. And I just said, wow.
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  S5: Good insight. And he came back. He said, this is
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  S5: just amazing content right now. The last five minutes. It
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  S5: explains the why behind Revolution 1230 and Revolution 1230 is
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  S5: just our humble attempt to make disciples of Christ.
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  S6: And oh, this.
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  S2: Is like a church.
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  S6: Is that like your church wide thing?
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  S5: Okay, we're after right now and it's born out of
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  S5: Mark 1230. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind,
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  S5: and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. And it's
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  S5: that love that makes us look at people like individuals.
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  S5: So we. And this is wholly resistant then to this
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  S5: cultural vibe of do we all look right? No, it
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  S5: looks into the heart of of a sheep and it says,
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  S5: how are you? Why do you do what you do?
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  S5: And how can we help you walk forward in your
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  S5: relationship with Christ? It. It personalizes it because we all
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  S5: make moves that are different from one another. So there's
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  S5: people listening right now that one of your moves is
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  S5: to get off of, um, prescription meds. Let's just say that,
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  S5: all right. Let's just what, what are what are some others?
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  S5: We know we've got people getting off pornography. We've got
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  S5: people recovering from infidelity and all these things. But you've
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  S5: got this wide spectrum. Not everybody fits into those categories
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  S5: there as wide as wide can be. And they're so
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  S5: unique to our design and our past. What drove us
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  S5: to do what we did for many years or even
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  S5: currently as as a follower of Jesus Christ and God
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  S5: in his mercy, reaches in by the power of the
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  S5: Holy Spirit because the spirit knows exactly what we need. Right?
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  S6: Yeah. And I think he.
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  S5: Says, let's move.
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  S2: We want it to be easy when it comes to
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  S2: dealing with people. I mean, anybody who's ever been in
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  S2: any kind of leadership over anyone else, you you mentioned
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  S2: kind of the shepherd versus the rancher. You you want
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  S2: to kind of hurry people along. Like if you see
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  S2: that there's gaps or there's, you want to like, kind
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  S2: of like, okay, let's get it together. Like you're in
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  S2: Christ now let's, let's stop doing all these things. And,
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  S2: you know, I was meeting with somebody not too long ago,
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  S2: and she talked about how sometimes people who have really
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  S2: complicated backstories or, you know, really traumatic pasts, like they
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  S2: can feel like there's not room for them. Like there's
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  S2: like people quickly run out of patience or grace for
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  S2: their issues.
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  S5: You're so right.
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  S2: And I thought that was a, it was an interesting perspective. And,
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  S2: you know, she was like, I hope that you guys
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  S2: spend some time talking about that because there are a
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  S2: lot of people who, you know, their, their backgrounds are complicated.
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  S2: It's complex and it's hard for us. And, you know,
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  S2: I was I really hurt her heart that day like that.
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  S2: Sometimes we have to move at the pace of grace
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  S2: with people when we're tempted to kind of. Oh, I've
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  S2: heard about this before. Okay. Yeah. Still that like, we can,
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  S2: we can start to lose grace.
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  S5: Yeah. And the, and the power of grace, if you
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  S5: think about it. So let's just take the classic story
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  S5: of the woman at the well, right?
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  S6: Yes.
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  S5: There is something about that intentional shepherding of that woman
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  S5: that no discipleship class could have unlocked.
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  S2: What do you mean?
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  S5: I mean, when Jesus sat down, read her mail, but
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  S5: lovingly as a Jewish rabbi, Messiah loved her still and
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  S5: just entered into her world, entered into her life, did
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  S5: not reject her. And I think maybe one of the
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  S5: most powerful insights from that is that Jesus sat with her.
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  S5: He sat with her, which is a big deal, man.
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  S6: Yeah.
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  S5: I mean, what can unlock someone more than just being
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  S5: sat with and saying, you're, you're not too much of
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  S5: a problem.
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  S6: Yeah.
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  S2: That's that's key. I think a lot of people feel
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  S2: like they're too much of a problem.
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  S6: Yeah.
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  S5: You know, it comes in a lot of different forms. Um,
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  S5: I think for me, as much of a type A
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  S5: personality as I am, the little secret here is that
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  S5: I would let opposition put me on tilt too easily.
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  S5: And then I read that classic passage that I want
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  S5: to come see you Corinthians, but I'm in Ephesus and
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  S5: I gotta hang on here because a wide door for
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  S5: effective work has opened to me. I think it's 1609 comma,
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  S5: and there are many adversaries. And Ali, when I read
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  S5: that team, when I read that, I'm like, oh my goodness.
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  S5: And it was a huge paradigm shift for me. Now
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  S5: you have to delineate between opposition. That is wise counsel
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  S5: that's telling you slow or go here or but because
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  S5: you can't paint, paint all opposition as from the devil.
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  S5: But there's sometimes you're, you're kicking up against the gates
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  S5: of hell and you got to keep moving, man. It's
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  S5: fascinating thing. Now, that probably hasn't been something that has
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  S5: struck you, Ali. Maybe it has, but but for a
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  S5: leader it does.
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  S2: Yeah. And I mean, that passage has its own backstory
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  S2: for us too. But I mean, there are others as
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  S2: well where there whether it's a specific passage of scripture
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  S2: or something that you read on any given day.
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  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 18:44
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
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  S5: Not getting a ton of feedback on this, but I
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  S5: got to believe a lot of people are thinking deeply
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  S5: about it. You know, the interesting thing about The Good
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  S5: Shepherd is that he sees each of his sheep intimately,
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  S5: and he guides us carefully, and he loves us. And
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  S5: how is that working for you? Somebody texted in Sabbath. Well,
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  S5: you know, Sabbath is a phenomenal principle, and it's proven
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  S5: over and over again if we don't get a break.
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  S5: And by the way, this isn't this. Let me give
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  S5: you a cautionary tale on Sabbath. Some of you have
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  S5: wondered why vacations don't work. I'll tell you why they
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  S5: don't work. Oftentimes we head into a Sabbath and we
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  S5: leave God back at home. It's like we're going away
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  S5: on vacation. Now, the way to have a great vacation
• 19:38
  S5: is to start it with more intentionality in your relationship
• 19:43
  S5: with God. More intentionality. You want to get a day
• 19:46
  S5: of rest? Have more intentionality. Open the Bible and meeting
• 19:51
  S5: with God because that's where the nourishment comes. We've all
• 19:55
  S5: been on vacations where you come back absolutely fried.
• 19:59
  S2: Yes, totally. And you're like the compensating statement, I need
• 20:02
  S2: a vacation from my vacation.
• 20:04
  S6: Yeah.
• 20:04
  S5: And it's. And it's more than just. Ha, ha. It's
• 20:08
  S5: a there's an unsettledness and it's like, oh my goodness,
• 20:11
  S5: why am I not recharged? No one can recharge. You
• 20:14
  S5: like the presence of God.
• 20:16
  S2: Very true.
• 20:17
  S3: Very true. You know, for me right now, uh, I'm
• 20:21
  S3: seeing this recent development with, with my walk with the Lord.
• 20:24
  S3: And it's really cool because, you know, there's a lot
• 20:28
  S3: of things we can't understand the mind of God. There
• 20:30
  S3: are things in faith that that yeah, I can't fully
• 20:34
  S3: grasp it. I can't fully understand it, but I take
• 20:37
  S3: it in faith, and I've been searching a lot of
• 20:40
  S3: those things lately. And for me, and like a lot
• 20:43
  S3: of us, it's really hard for me to not be
• 20:45
  S3: able to understand everything. I struggle with that because I
• 20:49
  S3: want to and, and I have to be okay with
• 20:52
  S3: not understanding things sometimes. And I was reading Romans 11
• 20:57
  S3: and these verses really, I think God spoke to me
• 21:00
  S3: in them. And I think that it helps me with that.
• 21:03
  S3: But then it also it's kind of changed how I'm
• 21:06
  S3: starting my day now to get me going into all
• 21:10
  S3: of the things in my life that need to be adjusted.
• 21:12
  S3: And it's from Romans 11 right at the end, uh,
• 21:15
  S3: verses 33 through 36 where it says the depth of
• 21:21
  S3: riches and wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are
• 21:23
  S3: his judgments. Inscrutable are his ways. For who has known
• 21:26
  S3: the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?
• 21:29
  S3: Who has given him a gift that he might be repaid?
• 21:33
  S3: For from him, and through him and to him are
• 21:35
  S3: all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. And God
• 21:39
  S3: just kind of calmed my heart saying, Jonathan, you don't
• 21:42
  S3: understand everything that I'm doing. And sometimes you may not
• 21:45
  S3: even get it to the point where it bothers you
• 21:47
  S3: a little bit, but it's okay. And I'm starting my
• 21:50
  S3: days now with a prayer that says, God from you
• 21:54
  S3: and to you, and through you are all things. I
• 21:57
  S3: am from you. I'm through you, and I'm to you, God.
• 22:01
  S3: Mold me and use me today however you'd like and
• 22:05
  S3: just let me live that way. And it's changing everything
• 22:08
  S3: about my day.
• 22:10
  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 22:15
  S5: You know, here's the beautiful thing about a shepherd. He
• 22:18
  S5: knows you. He gets you, he understands you. And he's
• 22:23
  S5: got a custom fit approach for getting you down the
• 22:25
  S5: path today. Just that fits you. You to a tee.
• 22:30
  S5: Let him work in you. Not like he works in
• 22:33
  S5: someone else. Like he wants to work in you. That's
• 22:36
  S5: how special you are to God. Okay, it's that time
• 22:40
  S5: of the day. 630 central time. Woo! Here we go.
• 22:44
  S5: You ready, young thunder?
• 22:45
  S3: Sure.
• 22:46
  S5: Okay.
• 22:48
  S1: Finding nuggets of truth in everyday life.
• 22:51
  S7: It's a metaphor. It's just a metaphor, dude.
• 22:53
  S8: That's a metaphor.
• 22:55
  S7: It's a metaphor.
• 22:56
  S9: I know it's a metaphor.
• 22:57
  S1: It's time for. Make it a metaphor with young thunder.
• 23:02
  S2: I've got a story for you, Jonathan. And up front,
• 23:04
  S2: I need everybody to agree to not judge me for this.
• 23:09
  S6: Oh, boy. This is going to be one of those.
• 23:11
  S2: I should have known better.
• 23:12
  S6: Okay.
• 23:13
  S2: Recently paying some bills. I got the shock of my
• 23:17
  S2: life when I saw our water bill. It had gone
• 23:20
  S2: up about eight times what it normally is. Eight times. Really?
• 23:26
  S2: I saw the number. I won't even give it to
• 23:28
  S2: you out loud. I about fell out of my chair
• 23:30
  S2: and I thought, how in the world did our water
• 23:32
  S2: bill go from what, a normal household water bill to
• 23:36
  S2: this astronomical number? And then in a moment, it hit me.
• 23:41
  S2: We had had a toilet that had kind of a
• 23:44
  S2: running toilet, very, very subtle. So over time it would
• 23:49
  S2: just like run a little bit longer, like not leaking,
• 23:52
  S2: not leaking outside the toilet, but just, you know, like, yeah,
• 23:55
  S2: just the what you hear the water running. And so
• 23:57
  S2: we would go in there and we could kind of
• 23:59
  S2: jiggle around the, the part inside and it would stop.
• 24:02
  S2: And so this went on for a little bit of
• 24:05
  S2: time because we were able to, what I thought we,
• 24:08
  S2: we stopped it temporarily until it was an issue again. Well,
• 24:12
  S2: little did I know that over time, this running toilet
• 24:16
  S2: was wasting hundreds of gallons of water and driving our
• 24:21
  S2: water bill up to a number that I don't even
• 24:24
  S2: want to say out loud. I did not realize the
• 24:26
  S2: cost of this minor issue that we had put off fixing.
• 24:29
  S2: Of course, my first call after seeing that water bill
• 24:32
  S2: was to the plumber and we got it fixed right away.
• 24:35
  S2: But I'm embarrassed to admit how long I let it
• 24:37
  S2: go on thinking that the temporary fix was enough. Jonathan,
• 24:41
  S2: make it a metaphor.
• 24:43
  S3: So the first thing that came to my mind is
• 24:48
  S3: we talk about being filled with the Holy Spirit and
• 24:55
  S3: like that toilet. Sometimes we leak. We leak the Holy Spirit,
• 25:03
  S3: just like your toilet leaks that little bit of water.
• 25:06
  S3: And it may not be all that noticeable. And at
• 25:09
  S3: first you may look at it and say, oh, it's
• 25:12
  S3: just it's my toilet's just making a little extra noise.
• 25:16
  S3: That's okay. It's not that big a deal. I'll handle
• 25:18
  S3: it when I handle it. And then the bill comes
• 25:21
  S3: and you get that bill and you realize, oh, there's
• 25:23
  S3: a heavy price to pay for not addressing this little leak.
• 25:28
  S3: We are told to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
• 25:32
  S3: And Paul says, do not get drunk on wine, for
• 25:35
  S3: that's debauchery, but be filled with the Holy Spirit. We
• 25:38
  S3: need to let the Holy Spirit be in control of
• 25:41
  S3: our lives 24 over seven. And we need to constantly
• 25:46
  S3: be filled. Because the more time I spend in this world,
• 25:49
  S3: the more time I come across things that either tempt
• 25:53
  S3: me or distract me. I leak a little bit and I.
• 25:57
  S5: Need no charge.
• 25:58
  S3: And there's no charge. I need to recognize that leak
• 26:02
  S3: is there. I need to address that leak, and I
• 26:04
  S3: need to constantly be filled with the Holy Spirit. Otherwise
• 26:08
  S3: the bills gonna come on my life and I'm gonna recognize, oh, man,
• 26:11
  S3: there's a price to be paid for letting the Holy
• 26:14
  S3: Spirit leak out and not address it.
• 26:15
  S5: See, what you thought was a bad thing really was
• 26:18
  S5: just a metaphor for a really good thing.
• 26:21
  S6: That was a really expensive metaphor. You're welcome.
• 26:23
  S3: Sorry about your expensive metaphor.
• 26:26
  S5: Oh, great job Jonathan. It's called making a metaphor. We'll
• 26:30
  S5: have one again at 830 central time. Wherever you're listening.
• 26:34
  S5: Young Thunder takes a story. Any old story. And we'll
• 26:36
  S5: have one of yours coming up at the at the
• 26:39
  S5: at the next stop. But we'd love to hear from you.
• 26:42
  S5: All right, guys. Discipleship is key, isn't it, Ali?
• 26:46
  S2: It is coming up. What do we need to maybe
• 26:49
  S2: do differently? Is discipleship broken? Let's talk about it.
• 26:53
  S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
• 26:57
  S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
• 27:01
  S1: Moody Radio.
• 27:02
  S5: Well, if there's one thing we're about around here, well,
• 27:06
  S5: let's go for two. One is let's make sure that
• 27:09
  S5: you don't have an illusion of salvation. According to Matthew seven,
• 27:12
  S5: Matthew 25 Corinthians, even first Peter. But then when you
• 27:17
  S5: are born again, taking steps in discipleship, I got to
• 27:22
  S5: go back. It was just a few days ago I
• 27:24
  S5: mentioned I ran into a guy that's become a dear friend,
• 27:28
  S5: 30 years in the church, radically saved by Jesus as
• 27:32
  S5: an adult, and yet has never had the opportunity of
• 27:37
  S5: having anyone come alongside him. Ali, we got to fix that,
• 27:40
  S5: don't we, sister?
• 27:41
  S2: We do. And so we go. How does how does
• 27:44
  S2: it happen that so many people who genuinely know Christ
• 27:48
  S2: will take that second part, but then lack discipleship, so
• 27:53
  S2: therefore fail to grow and mature in their faith? Got
• 27:57
  S2: some good hard questions for our guests today. Doctor Ron
• 28:01
  S2: Hunter Jr, executive Director and CEO of Randall House. He's
• 28:04
  S2: also the author of a book called Backward Discipleship. First,
• 28:09
  S2: this is always, I'm sure, the first question explain the title.
• 28:12
  S2: What's the big thing we're doing backwards?
• 28:15
  S10: Backward discipleship is starting with the end in mind and
• 28:19
  S10: working back to wherever we are, regardless of the age
• 28:21
  S10: of your kids. And so we think that way about
• 28:25
  S10: let's take sports. Parents, go. Hey, I want my kid
• 28:28
  S10: to get a scholarship. They're thinking end goal. And then
• 28:31
  S10: they work back to age 4 or 5 when they're
• 28:33
  S10: buying them their first ball cleats and so forth.
• 28:37
  S5: Okay, so your focus really, Ron, is on families and
• 28:41
  S5: I get that. How transferable are these discipleship principles throughout
• 28:45
  S5: the body writ large?
• 28:47
  S10: Oh, they're very transferable as long as like you talked
• 28:50
  S10: about introducing this, if we'll stop making or stop trying
• 28:54
  S10: to seek decisions and start trying to make disciples, we're
• 28:58
  S10: failing to measure what really matters. No, I think the
• 29:01
  S10: transferability is understanding the rhythms and routines that we want
• 29:05
  S10: parents to do, like they do in other areas.
• 29:08
  S2: Ron. So this statistic may be sobering is definitely going
• 29:12
  S2: to be sobering for those listening. Nearly two thirds of
• 29:14
  S2: church youth are disengaging from youth and even their faith.
• 29:19
  S2: Once they are disengaging from church and their faith once
• 29:22
  S2: they reach adulthood. That is hard to hear. Two thirds.
• 29:27
  S10: That's right. And it is because of what we talked about.
• 29:30
  S10: They've made a profession of faith, but nobody walked them along.
• 29:33
  S10: What discipleship looks like. So think about that fraction. We're
• 29:37
  S10: producing twice as many prodigals as we are disciples. And
• 29:41
  S10: I like to look at not the sensational. We're losing
• 29:44
  S10: two thirds. I want to look at what caused the
• 29:46
  S10: one third to stay.
• 29:48
  S5: Yeah. You know, it's interesting, Ron, and let's just break
• 29:51
  S5: it down here. Even that one third that's staying here.
• 29:56
  S5: It even gets more challenging because we know that even
• 30:01
  S5: among those that stay, sometimes those are conformist kids or
• 30:04
  S5: they they've gotten into the groove of Churchianity, as we
• 30:09
  S5: used to call it back in the day. The thing
• 30:11
  S5: that heartens me about what you're doing is that intentional
• 30:16
  S5: discipleship will bring to the surface an illusion of salvation
• 30:21
  S5: as well for those that are staying in church, right, Ron?
• 30:25
  S10: That is correct. And what we want to do is
• 30:28
  S10: see that what begins in church actually bears fruit in
• 30:32
  S10: the home.
• 30:33
  S2: So, Ron, many people who are listening, they do the
• 30:37
  S2: basic things that we would totally promote. Take your kids
• 30:40
  S2: to church. Yes. If your kid has a youth group,
• 30:43
  S2: send them to youth group. Absolutely. But what do parents
• 30:46
  S2: need to do beyond that or even differently to prepare
• 30:49
  S2: their children to thrive spiritually?
• 30:51
  S10: That's right. So that takes us back to the what
• 30:54
  S10: causes that one third to stay away? And what we
• 30:57
  S10: need to do is stop outsourcing Christianity. Parents are really
• 31:01
  S10: good at taking their kids to the best schools, sending
• 31:03
  S10: them to the best sports. But the parents, the kids
• 31:05
  S10: who really thrive, have parents who are changing their daily
• 31:09
  S10: rhythms and routines. And there are five characteristics that are
• 31:13
  S10: common among that one third who stay. It's having conversations
• 31:17
  S10: at home. It's Bible engagement, meaning we actually pick up
• 31:21
  S10: our Bibles and read it when we're not at church.
• 31:23
  S10: Parents purposely align mentors with their kids, and then they
• 31:29
  S10: teach their kids how to share their faith. And these
• 31:32
  S10: parents also volunteer their families to do activities at church,
• 31:36
  S10: not participate, but take leadership roles. Those are the five.
• 31:41
  S10: And you don't have to do all of them. But
• 31:42
  S10: if you can knock out 2 or 3 of them,
• 31:44
  S10: you start changing those odds and not being part of
• 31:47
  S10: that two thirds who walk away.
• 31:49
  S5: I'm hearing the sound of some parents because you're right,
• 31:53
  S5: it's an epidemic in our two church campuses alone here
• 31:57
  S5: in Chicagoland, we've got 43 wayward kids that were raised
• 32:02
  S5: in imperfect but good homes. That did a lot about
• 32:05
  S5: what you're saying. The hope is for a lot of
• 32:08
  S5: these parents is that when these kids do hit their lips,
• 32:11
  S5: come to the end of themselves. Blessed are the poor
• 32:13
  S5: in spirit that they'll come back to this. So you're
• 32:16
  S5: not ensuring do this. They're going to be great. You're
• 32:21
  S5: saying do this and you've planted something that could bear
• 32:24
  S5: fruit in time as well. Right, Ron?
• 32:26
  S10: That is correct. Think about it this way. If we
• 32:28
  S10: go on a vacation, we start with an empty suitcase
• 32:31
  S10: and we think about where we're going and we pack
• 32:33
  S10: the appropriate clothing, the appropriate toiletries, everything. And we've got
• 32:38
  S10: to pack biblical values. We got to pack rhythms and
• 32:41
  S10: routines into their lives. We got to build discipline. That's
• 32:44
  S10: the root word of discipleship into their life, to where
• 32:47
  S10: they're pursuing Christ, not just tagging along, going to church.
• 32:52
  S2: What has changed, Ron? You know, I'm the parent of
• 32:54
  S2: two teenagers, almost 14 and a 17 year old. And
• 32:58
  S2: the thing that I've noticed most, and I'd love for
• 33:00
  S2: you to speak into this, is that the questions that
• 33:03
  S2: they come up against are coming much earlier than they
• 33:06
  S2: ever did when I was their age. The things that
• 33:08
  S2: they're hearing at school, the ideas that they're having to
• 33:12
  S2: kind of navigate through earlier, younger than I ever remember.
• 33:17
  S10: Ali, you're so right. You know, I always say that, man,
• 33:20
  S10: parenting doesn't feel so bad when your kids are in
• 33:23
  S10: elementary school, but man, when they get a little bit older,
• 33:26
  S10: we got to realize they're on loan to us from God.
• 33:29
  S10: And our goal is to help them make wise spiritual decisions.
• 33:32
  S10: So we had to start helping them early. And I
• 33:34
  S10: often teach parents there are four keys that describe the
• 33:37
  S10: seasons of parenting, and we need to go through them.
• 33:41
  S10: And Ali, you're in the third one. It's the coach.
• 33:43
  S10: We're coaching them, but we're trusting them out on the
• 33:46
  S10: ball field, camping them. We're looking at them from a distance,
• 33:49
  S10: and we're hoping they remember what they did in practice
• 33:52
  S10: and rehearsal.
• 33:53
  S2: You got to give us those other three. So the
• 33:55
  S2: coach that's where I'm at.
• 33:57
  S10: That's right. So birth to age two is caregiver. We
• 34:00
  S10: do everything for our kids. But from about two until
• 34:03
  S10: age 12 is the cop. We're teaching them boundaries. We're
• 34:06
  S10: teaching them to play well with others. We're teaching them
• 34:09
  S10: the value of community. You know, remember the report card
• 34:14
  S10: phrase that the teacher would write? They play well with others.
• 34:17
  S10: That's what we want our kids to learn inside voices,
• 34:20
  S10: outside voices. And then from age 12 to about 18,
• 34:24
  S10: they're getting a little more freedom. They're spending more time
• 34:26
  S10: away from home. That's the coach phase. And we're trusting
• 34:30
  S10: they're remembering what they did. And then at 18, we become,
• 34:34
  S10: as parents, the consultants we can no longer control. And
• 34:37
  S10: I always tell people, start letting your kids make some
• 34:40
  S10: early decisions. You lay out 2 or 3 outfits. My
• 34:42
  S10: wife was great at this in front of our daughter
• 34:44
  S10: and say, hey, pick one of these three outfits to wear.
• 34:46
  S10: Here's where we're going and here's why we're wearing these.
• 34:49
  S10: And you teach them small, then give them souvenir money
• 34:52
  S10: whenever you travel, whether it's digital or real, and say, hey,
• 34:55
  S10: you can spend this without asking, do you need to
• 34:57
  S10: buy that? Teach them how to handle money before they
• 34:59
  S10: have to. That's a cool piece. Yeah.
• 35:02
  S5: What gave you a passion for this? I mean, you
• 35:05
  S5: built a whole ministry around this thing. What built this fire?
• 35:09
  S10: Well, it's watching those two thirds. I was a pastor.
• 35:11
  S10: I watched the teenagers who, when they were kids, loved
• 35:15
  S10: Jesus Christ. They got their driver's license, and it's almost
• 35:18
  S10: like they drove away from church. My parents divorced when
• 35:21
  S10: I was 15. I think I just have a passion
• 35:24
  S10: for family as a whole, and I want to see people.
• 35:27
  S10: Nobody wants their kids to grow up and fail. We
• 35:30
  S10: want them to succeed. And what I've found is we
• 35:32
  S10: were never given an instruction manual. I didn't have one
• 35:35
  S10: when I came from the hospital with our first child,
• 35:38
  S10: and it's scary parenting. It's the hardest thing we do,
• 35:41
  S10: and I think there's so much insight if we can
• 35:44
  S10: come alongside and that's what we try to do at
• 35:46
  S10: D6 Family Ministry.
• 35:47
  S5: I don't know if you've delved into this, but we've
• 35:50
  S5: got a lot of people listening, and I'm going to
• 35:53
  S5: put a wild guess at it. I'm going to say
• 35:56
  S5: right now, 5000 to 10,000 people listening who are consultants,
• 36:04
  S5: or at least they're in that age frame. Yep. And
• 36:08
  S5: they don't get consulted for much of anything. Give some hope.
• 36:12
  S10: Definitely. First of all, our kids are in a technological world,
• 36:16
  S10: they can Google, YouTube, AI, whatever they want their answers
• 36:20
  S10: to be. But nothing replaces a relationship. So if you're
• 36:24
  S10: listening and you're in the consultant phase, here's going to
• 36:27
  S10: be my, my challenge. Either your kids are following Christ
• 36:30
  S10: or they're not following Christ. And then there's a second description.
• 36:34
  S10: Either you have a really close relationship or you have
• 36:37
  S10: the occasional call. Here's what I'm going to ask you
• 36:39
  S10: to do. I want you to find common ground with
• 36:42
  S10: your child, your adult child, whether it's a sport, it's
• 36:46
  S10: a book, a hobby, whatever it is. And I just
• 36:49
  S10: want you to ask your kids questions about their day.
• 36:52
  S10: I want you to ask them how that that hobby.
• 36:54
  S10: Maybe you're reading together. You're watching the same sports you
• 36:57
  S10: call them and lean into that conversation and stop lecturing.
• 37:02
  S10: Stop telling them what you know they need to do
• 37:05
  S10: because they're beyond that phase. Warm up to their heart.
• 37:09
  S10: And when you warm back up and recreate building a
• 37:11
  S10: bridge to their hearts, then they will start asking your
• 37:14
  S10: advice about other things. I've seen too many tension points
• 37:19
  S10: cause a divide because somewhere along the way, every conversation
• 37:23
  S10: became a sermon between us and our kids, and we
• 37:25
  S10: can rescue and rebuild that.
• 37:28
  S5: You know, I hadn't even heard of your C's, but
• 37:30
  S5: I happened to give a mom and a dad, particularly
• 37:34
  S5: the mom. I said, you got to get out of this.
• 37:37
  S5: What do you call it? Cop stage. I didn't call
• 37:39
  S5: it cop, but I said, you got to be a coach.
• 37:41
  S5: And that's a totally different approach. You know what? That
• 37:46
  S5: little shift in her I heard from them both has
• 37:49
  S5: radically altered the home life. Radically altered it?
• 37:53
  S10: Absolutely.
• 37:54
  S5: How do you know, though, when you're moving from phase
• 37:56
  S5: to phase, how do you know?
• 37:58
  S10: Again, I think when you start giving your kids decision
• 38:01
  S10: making ability early on, you know, even on choice of
• 38:04
  S10: foods and times and things like that, when you start
• 38:08
  S10: seeing them make good choices and you start affirming them,
• 38:11
  S10: you give them a little more rope and a little
• 38:13
  S10: more responsibility. You affirm that. You build that up. Kids
• 38:18
  S10: respond to that kind of affirmation. I mean, there's a
• 38:22
  S10: business principle. I forget who said it. People respect what
• 38:25
  S10: you inspect. It works in parenting, too. Your kids are
• 38:28
  S10: crying out for leadership, and it's called parenting.
• 38:31
  S2: Doctor Ron Hunter, our guest this morning, the book is
• 38:34
  S2: called Backward Discipleship. He also mentioned the D6 Family Ministry
• 38:39
  S2: publishing based in Nashville. We've got links for you. Just
• 38:42
  S2: text Ron RON to 805 557898. Just text Ron for
• 38:48
  S2: more on our guest doctor, Ron Hunter Jr. Ron to
• 38:51
  S2: 805 557898.
• 38:55
  S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to
• 38:59
  S1: cast and crew.
• 39:00
  S5: You know, one of the greatest forms of healing comes
• 39:03
  S5: in person on person. Seeing our battles, watching our peace,
• 39:08
  S5: watching our joys, our struggles, our prayers. It's person to person,
• 39:12
  S5: and it's what Jesus prescribed. Go make disciples. Baptizing them.
• 39:18
  S5: Baptizing disciples. Not not church attenders, not even babies. Get
• 39:24
  S5: into that one down the road one day. But these
• 39:26
  S5: are people that have declared, Jesus Christ is my Lord
• 39:29
  S5: and Savior. They have repented. They have gone a new
• 39:32
  S5: way in many cases. Early church left home, family. They
• 39:37
  S5: left inheritance. It cost them a lot. Now here's the danger. Um,
• 39:43
  S5: because we find the need in the local church today.
• 39:46
  S5: And these are good metrics to measure nickels and noses.
• 39:49
  S5: We often mention that. And by the way, it's biblical, right?
• 39:52
  S2: Absolutely.
• 39:53
  S5: It's right there in the word. Uh, there's a need
• 39:55
  S5: to measure that. The danger is when those measurements supersede
• 40:00
  S5: and go above and beyond the measurement of, are we
• 40:03
  S5: making disciples? Or are we just gathering a crowd that
• 40:07
  S5: walks away from week to week, somewhat inspired and even
• 40:11
  S5: small groups doesn't ensure disciple making. We've got a great
• 40:14
  S5: man with us here, Eric Redman, Doctor Eric Redman, it's
• 40:17
  S5: one of the profs here at Moody. And, uh, what
• 40:20
  S5: do you say, doc? This is this is a tough one. It's.
• 40:24
  S5: It feels like nickels and noses edges out the measurement
• 40:27
  S5: of disciple making. It's a common challenge.
• 40:30
  S11: I absolutely agree that so many times we put emphasis
• 40:33
  S11: on numbers of baptisms or numbers of people that are
• 40:36
  S11: in our Sunday schools or our Bible studies. But if
• 40:38
  S11: we took all the numbers of the people in our
• 40:41
  S11: churches and we showed them how to live a life
• 40:44
  S11: before Christ and how to have their lives conformed to
• 40:47
  S11: the image of Christ, and then help them to see
• 40:49
  S11: how to pass that on. We would make an impact
• 40:52
  S11: across the city and across the world like never before.
• 40:57
  S2: Doctor Eric Redman, our guest this morning, professor here at
• 40:59
  S2: Moody Bible Institute, also the executive director of Moody's Center
• 41:03
  S2: for Compelling Biblical Preaching. So when people think of discipleship,
• 41:08
  S2: their mind usually goes to a program or a curriculum,
• 41:12
  S2: something that their church offers. This has been pretty hard
• 41:16
  S2: wired into us. I mean, how do we get out
• 41:19
  S2: of that mode?
• 41:20
  S11: I think when we look at the Gospels, we see
• 41:22
  S11: something very different than a program because there were no
• 41:25
  S11: study guides and books when Jesus first started making disciples. Instead,
• 41:29
  S11: he stuck to disciples on his hip and said, follow me.
• 41:32
  S11: And as they were following, they saw what it looked
• 41:34
  S11: like to be like Jesus and to make fishers of men.
• 41:37
  S11: And oddly enough, one of the first things they saw
• 41:40
  S11: was him walking to a synagogue, the place of religion,
• 41:43
  S11: and cast a demon out of somebody. And it's like,
• 41:46
  S11: is this what it means to make fishers of men?
• 41:48
  S11: Is that what we're going to do? Did we sign
• 41:49
  S11: up for this? You absolutely signed up for that.
• 41:52
  S5: Yeah. It's you know, it's fascinating. If you look at
• 41:56
  S5: second Timothy two, this is a four generation passage, and
• 42:00
  S5: let me just read it and pick it up. In
• 42:02
  S5: verse two, Paul's telling Timothy, and what you have heard
• 42:06
  S5: from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to
• 42:09
  S5: faithful men and women who will be able to teach
• 42:13
  S5: others also. So you got Paul telling Timothy and trust
• 42:15
  S5: faithful men and women who will be able to teach
• 42:17
  S5: others also. There's an assumption, and I saw this recently
• 42:22
  S5: in Kenya, where they've got a blank slate to reach
• 42:24
  S5: an unreached people groups, and they're coming in with discipleship
• 42:27
  S5: as the model for doing church. There is an assumption
• 42:31
  S5: here that's not the assumption in local Western churches. We
• 42:36
  S5: have an assumption. Let's go to church. This is a
• 42:40
  S5: be the church model. How do we break that mold
• 42:45
  S5: so that we can really start afresh? Eric.
• 42:47
  S11: Well, part of the assumption is that what we're doing
• 42:51
  S11: will always be here, that there's nothing that's going to
• 42:53
  S11: interrupt us, that the pews that we sit in are
• 42:56
  S11: always going to be here, and they're always going to
• 42:58
  S11: be people welcoming when that's not true. If we're not intentional,
• 43:02
  S11: what we need to be thinking is, what will it
• 43:04
  S11: take for there to be a faithful witness from this
• 43:08
  S11: congregation and from these people two and three generations. Now,
• 43:12
  S11: that takes intentionality on the part of everyone. And so
• 43:16
  S11: if every person is thinking, I need to be an
• 43:18
  S11: intentional part of making it so that my grandchildren will
• 43:22
  S11: have a gospel centered place to be, then that will
• 43:25
  S11: change how we look at making disciples.
• 43:28
  S2: Doctor Eric Redman, our guest right now coming up, how
• 43:30
  S2: do we start to prepare? Maybe you don't see yourself
• 43:34
  S2: as a disciple maker. If you are a follower of
• 43:36
  S2: Jesus Christ, you are, I am. How can we prepare
• 43:40
  S2: practically coming up.
• 43:42
  S1: Your shot of hope to get you through the day.
• 43:45
  S4: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
• 43:48
  S4: to stay in your past, and I want you to
• 43:50
  S4: know and believe that today.
• 43:52
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 43:54
  S2: Doctor Eric Redman, our guest this morning. We're talking about
• 43:56
  S2: disciple making. We think often about a program or a
• 44:00
  S2: track or a small group. But do you think of
• 44:03
  S2: yourself as a disciple maker, Doctor Redmond. We should. Right.
• 44:09
  S11: We should think of ourselves as disciple makers. And. A
• 44:12
  S11: practical way to do this, to move away from programs,
• 44:15
  S11: is to take the relationships that we already have in
• 44:18
  S11: our congregations and go one step further and do something
• 44:22
  S11: like this. Say, hey, would you like to come over?
• 44:24
  S11: Or can we go out for coffee so that people
• 44:27
  S11: can see what we have called life on life, and
• 44:31
  S11: we can begin to get beyond. We're just forming people
• 44:35
  S11: to do the spiritual disciplines. We're actually showing them how
• 44:39
  S11: to live Christianity out in every aspect. So we just
• 44:41
  S11: go one step further from small group and say, let's
• 44:45
  S11: go out sometime and be intentional about doing this, where
• 44:48
  S11: we can have real discussions of how Christianity works in
• 44:50
  S11: your work, in your neighborhood, in your home, in your life.
• 44:53
  S5: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I was mentored by a
• 44:56
  S5: guy named Robert Lewis, and he was really part of
• 45:00
  S5: a movement that led to some of the a mega church,
• 45:03
  S5: but was broken down. In fact, the claim to fame
• 45:06
  S5: was that we had, oh, 85 to 90% of weekend
• 45:10
  S5: attenders of many thousands of people that were in small groups.
• 45:13
  S5: But I had an honest interaction with Robert many times.
• 45:16
  S5: But one was, you know, what's happening in those groups,
• 45:20
  S5: what's really going on, right? I mean, let's just break
• 45:22
  S5: it down, guys. I mean, just because you're in a
• 45:24
  S5: small group doesn't mean you're growing in Jesus. And he
• 45:27
  S5: got so passionate about what you were just saying that
• 45:29
  S5: he developed what was called 1 to 1. And it
• 45:32
  S5: became a, uh, a working document that turned into a
• 45:36
  S5: booklet that wound up selling gazillions. Many millions. In fact,
• 45:39
  S5: I just looked it's still out there somewhere. And, and
• 45:42
  S5: it became this incredible tool for people to invest in
• 45:47
  S5: other people very practically and powerfully. We've got to get there,
• 45:52
  S5: don't we?
• 45:53
  S11: We do. It's similar to what I tell the students
• 45:56
  S11: here at Moody Bible Institute and at seminary. It's great
• 45:59
  S11: that you get from we, who are your professors, all
• 46:03
  S11: the deep theology and exegesis and practical ministry and things
• 46:06
  S11: in the classroom. But what you remember most is when
• 46:09
  S11: we sit down with you in the cafeteria or open
• 46:12
  S11: our offices up, and we have conversations about the things
• 46:15
  S11: that are most important to you. For my undergraduate students,
• 46:18
  S11: they want to know how to relate to a parent
• 46:20
  S11: back home that they're having struggles with. And I sit
• 46:23
  S11: down and talk to them about how Christ matters in
• 46:26
  S11: this relationship and what it will look like for them
• 46:29
  S11: to show respect to this parent, their parents. That's what
• 46:31
  S11: they remember, even if it was never taught in a classroom.
• 46:34
  S11: And we need to do something very similar in our congregations.
• 46:37
  S6: You know.
• 46:38
  S2: It's interesting because there's something about carrying some ministry weight
• 46:43
  S2: that sharpens you. You know, if somebody tells you that
• 46:46
  S2: you're going to be the one to have to lead
• 46:48
  S2: small group that week, or that you're going to have
• 46:50
  S2: to fill in for some role you, you're, you do
• 46:54
  S2: different like your preparation that week is different. I mean,
• 46:57
  S2: how much of kind of what can contribute to sort
• 47:00
  S2: of the apathy, the atrophy, if you will. That happens
• 47:04
  S2: within the American churches that we simply don't take up
• 47:07
  S2: our cross and carry some weight.
• 47:10
  S11: We need to raise the bar, is what you're you're
• 47:12
  S11: saying we make it simple for people to come in
• 47:15
  S11: and the whole cups of coffee to drop children off
• 47:18
  S11: in the nursery and then just say, do something for me,
• 47:21
  S11: rather than being involved in the things that will force
• 47:24
  S11: us to go deeper into what it means to have
• 47:28
  S11: Jesus form us in all areas of life. So like
• 47:32
  S11: you said, when we get called on and we have
• 47:34
  S11: to be the one to present or the one to lead,
• 47:37
  S11: then then we start going to another level and wonder,
• 47:40
  S11: why didn't someone show me all this before? So we
• 47:44
  S11: need to raise the bar and challenge people. And then
• 47:48
  S11: we move on a road to get away from programs
• 47:51
  S11: and make disciples.
• 47:52
  S5: You know, this is a need. And I'll tell you,
• 47:54
  S5: you can prove this from brain science. I mean, we've
• 47:57
  S5: got all kinds of depression numbers. I mean, here we
• 48:00
  S5: are the most medicated country on the planet. I'm talking
• 48:06
  S5: America and we're the sickest with regard to emotional health.
• 48:10
  S5: And a lot of this has to do with isolation.
• 48:12
  S5: The interesting thing about the gospel, done rightly, is it
• 48:16
  S5: puts you in relationship again. Second Timothy two and what
• 48:21
  S5: you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses,
• 48:26
  S5: come back again next week and get some more, and
• 48:29
  S5: then next week and get some more. And then next
• 48:31
  S5: week I'm reading right here and then next week. And
• 48:33
  S5: just keep getting. No, it doesn't say that. It doesn't
• 48:37
  S5: say that. It says in what you have heard from
• 48:40
  S5: me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust a faithful
• 48:43
  S5: men and women who will be able to teach others. Also,
• 48:46
  S5: I'm wondering how much of the modern maladies of Western culture,
• 48:52
  S5: of isolation and stuff, if we really adopted a biblical
• 48:57
  S5: model of discipleship, which is People investing in people who
• 49:02
  S5: invest in people. And I'm not talking everyone being an evangelist,
• 49:05
  S5: but everyone being a witness and being a part of
• 49:08
  S5: the body where we're helping new followers grow up and
• 49:11
  S5: we're introducing, introducing, we're all being witnesses of what God's
• 49:15
  S5: done in us. This this brings some health to the
• 49:20
  S5: body of Christ. Derek.
• 49:22
  S11: It would bring health to many people, as you said,
• 49:25
  S11: part of the isolation that we experience comes from our
• 49:29
  S11: regular routine of going and sitting and watching and even
• 49:33
  S11: being part of a small group, but leaving small group
• 49:35
  S11: and feeling as if no one really knows us or
• 49:38
  S11: we couldn't reveal all that was there. And what we
• 49:41
  S11: need is someone to say, hey, I've been been there. Here,
• 49:44
  S11: let me tell you what Jesus did in my my
• 49:47
  S11: life and what you need to do here. But it
• 49:49
  S11: means we all are going to have to make sacrifices
• 49:52
  S11: of our time and of our our pride and reveal
• 49:57
  S11: the things that are most visceral, most important to us
• 50:01
  S11: in life, and how Jesus worked in our lives.
• 50:03
  S2: Got a key word for you? I want to give
• 50:05
  S2: you a little bit more information. We mentioned the center
• 50:08
  S2: for Compelling Biblical Preaching. We also have a short article
• 50:12
  S2: that Doctor Redman has written for today in the word
• 50:15
  S2: a quick Q and A that dives into this a
• 50:18
  S2: little bit more deeply. Just text center to (800) 555-7898. Text
• 50:24
  S2: center to (800) 555-7898.
• 50:28
  S5: Yeah, you know it. This. I love this discussion. Uh,
• 50:34
  S5: and mainly because the Lord's had me really drilling down
• 50:37
  S5: on this. Part of the reason we went to Kenya
• 50:39
  S5: and TTI is because David Nelms, the founder, Ali Wood,
• 50:43
  S5: came into our radio show. I had met him. I
• 50:46
  S5: had been just God had used him to really convict
• 50:49
  S5: me and compel me that we got to go make disciples. That.
• 50:54
  S5: The challenge here is that we are. we're fighting the
• 50:59
  S5: tide of doing church a very um. I don't want again,
• 51:07
  S5: I don't want to beat up the bride. We're we're
• 51:09
  S5: settling for too little. When we have an audience, you know,
• 51:13
  S5: a preacher audience. Come back next week. We're selling so short. Eric,
• 51:17
  S5: you get the final word here, man.
• 51:19
  S11: Yes. I think that we are right not to beat
• 51:22
  S11: up the bride. I love the way that you you
• 51:24
  S11: said that. But sometimes the bride does have a little
• 51:27
  S11: smudge on her face, and we need to help her.
• 51:29
  S11: And this is one of those areas here. If everyone
• 51:31
  S11: could just say, I'm going to go beyond just sitting
• 51:36
  S11: and letting people serve me, and I'm going to be
• 51:38
  S11: intentional about opening my home or spending some extra time
• 51:42
  S11: after work with a fellow believer. We would get into
• 51:46
  S11: deep discipleship.
• 51:48
  S2: Tech Center to (800) 555-7898. For more on this topic, just
• 51:54
  S2: text center to 805 557898.