Latest / The Morning Edition / Almost 20 years of NAPLAN data has revealed something shocking

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Almost 20 years of NAPLAN data has revealed something shocking · The Morning Edition

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  S1: It's like clockwork. Every March, countless parents, children and teachers
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  S1: across Australia grip their foreheads, wondering about how their naprelan
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  S1: scores measure up. But now, a new study of our
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  S1: country's national standardized scholastic test has revealed an unsettling trend.
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  S1: I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to Morning Edition.
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  S1: From The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald today, education
• 0:33
  S1: reporter Nicole Pressel on the educational segregation that is thriving
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  S1: in Australia and what it will take to fix it.
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  S1: It's May the 20th. Nicole, welcome to the podcast.
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  S2: Thank you so much for having me.
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  S1: Okay, before we get stuck into your story, can you
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  S1: just explain for us what Netplan is and why it
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  S1: was introduced. And full disclosure, I say this as a
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  S1: parent of three children who have been through this, and
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  S1: I still only have a vague idea of what its
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  S1: purpose is. So we need you, Nicole.
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  S2: Um, no, that's fair enough. I think there are a
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  S2: lot of parents who don't fully understand what NAPLAN is either.
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  S2: So NAPLAN is an annual national test for years three, five,
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  S2: seven and nine that test numeracy and literacy. So spelling, grammar,
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  S2: whole range of different things in relation to that. And
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  S2: the aim of it is to help identify students who
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  S2: need extra support. Evaluative schools teaching programs are working and
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  S2: then also help governments and education departments allocate resources.
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  S1: And it's not without controversy, right? Like there's there's parents
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  S1: who love it. There's parents who hate it. Can you
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  S1: just tell us in a nutshell, why has it faced
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  S1: so much criticism over the years before we get into
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  S1: this incredible study?
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  S2: Yeah, sure. I mean, I think it's faced a range
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  S2: of criticism for a range of reasons. There's parents who
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  S2: are aware that, you know, their children are really stressed
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  S2: before NAPLAN test, even though they needn't be. You're not
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  S2: supposed to study for NAPLAN. It's supposed to just be
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  S2: kind of where you are at the moment. And even so,
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  S2: I mean, some parents get tutoring for their children for
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  S2: NAPLAN tests, which is definitely not something you're supposed to do.
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  S2: It's also, you know, face some criticism because the NAPLAN
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  S2: results are sometimes hyped up by media outlets or schools
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  S2: often say, you know, this is we get great NAPLAN results.
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  S2: You know, sometimes we can spotlight low performers as well. And,
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  S2: you know, Acara, which is the body that kind of
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  S2: oversees NAPLAN, they've tried to crack down on some of
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  S2: those NAPLAN comparisons. I mean, there's also been research that
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  S2: questions whether NAPLAN results are influencing how schools are teaching
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  S2: as well. Not in the right ways, I guess.
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  S1: Right. Okay. And perhaps they're gearing their teaching to doing
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  S1: really well on the NAPLAN, uh, tests, as opposed to
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  S1: sort of teaching children to think critically or whatnot.
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  S2: Yep, yep. That's right.
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  S1: Okay. So there's been this study, though, that you've just
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  S1: written about into whether NAPLAN has actually worked. Now we're
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  S1: going to get to the results. But just first off,
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  S1: how was the research done and why do you think
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  S1: we should sit up and take notice of these findings?
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  S2: Victoria University's Mitchell Institute conducted the research and they analysed
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  S2: 17 years of NAPLAN data. Now this NAPLAN data is
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  S2: publicly available, so they haven't gone scrounging for it. And
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  S2: so what the researchers did was they, uh, transformed NAPLAN
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  S2: scores into equivalent years of learning. And they compared it
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  S2: against parental occupation and education.
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  S1: Okay, well, let's get to the findings. What had been
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  S1: the most significant findings from this study?
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  S2: So the most significant finding is that essentially disadvantaged students
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  S2: are worse off today than when NAPLAN was introduced in 2008. And,
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  S2: you know, the gap between rich and poor students in
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  S2: Australia is growing. And the studies essentially found that there
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  S2: are enduring and persistent learning gaps which have become more
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  S2: and more entrenched.
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  S1: And you gave a really good example in your feature
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  S1: on this study about how this actually plays out with, say,
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  S1: an average student in year three with regards to that
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  S1: comparison as to whether they've got essentially a better educated
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  S1: parent or a wealthier parent, and compared to that child
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  S1: who does not have that parent with secondary education or wealth.
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  S1: So tell us about how this plays out.
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  S2: Yeah, sure. So they found as an example, they found
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  S2: an average student in year three who had one parent
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  S2: with a bachelor's degree or higher was two years and
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  S2: three months ahead of an average student whose parents had
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  S2: not completed school. By year nine, that gap had actually
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  S2: grown to four years and three months. So that's a huge,
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  S2: huge gap in learning. The only exception was year nine
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  S2: in numeracy, where the gut shrunk by a few months
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  S2: based on parent education.
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  S1: Okay, so obviously that does not sound good, but how
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  S1: are we comparing with other countries?
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  S2: It's hard to compare, but Mitchell Institute's Andres Molina, who
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  S2: actually did this study, he's doing more research, which has
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  S2: yet to be published. And he's found that among 50
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  S2: OECD member and partner countries, Australia has actually experienced the
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  S2: largest increase in school socio economic segregation over the past
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  S2: 20 years. So, um, it's not great. It's not a
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  S2: great picture.
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  S1: Yeah. It's not what I sort of expected to be hearing.
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  S1: I've got to be honest with you. Now there is
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  S1: a one piece of good news which the federal education Minister,
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  S1: Jason Clare, was sort of keen to point out. So
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  S1: tell us what that is.
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  S2: Jason Clare said that the average eight year old is
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  S2: now reading a year ahead of where they were 20
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  S2: years ago. But the bad news was that gap between
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  S2: the reading skills of eight year olds from wealthy families
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  S2: and those from poorer families had doubled.
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  S3: 1 in 10 children today are below what we used
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  S3: to call the minimum standard for literacy and numeracy. But
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  S3: it's 1 in 3 children from poor families, and most
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  S3: of those children never catch up.
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  S2: And he's essentially said that this is something that we're
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  S2: working on.
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  S3: I don't want us to be a country where your
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  S3: chances depend on who your mum or dad are, or
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  S3: where you live, or where you went to school, or
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  S3: the colour of your skin. It's what we do here
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  S3: in education that, more than anything else, has the potential
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  S3: to change that. I'm not naive. None of this is
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  S3: easy or quick. If it was, it would be done
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  S3: by now. But I am determined.
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  S2: This is essentially one of the reasons why the better,
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  S2: Fairer Schools agreement is so important.
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  S1: After the break.
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  S2: In a country that is progressive, that takes equity seriously
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  S2: in every single state and territory, to see that that
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  S2: has not materialised in closing the gap for students in
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  S2: different backgrounds and that those gaps are widening. It's very problematic.
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  S1: And so that gap I mean, that's that's huge, right?
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  S1: This gap between the reading skills of eight year olds
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  S1: from wealthy families and those from poorer families had doubled,
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  S1: like you say, that doesn't sound good. So what are
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  S1: the possible reasons for this widening gap?
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  S2: So Andres Molina said the issue was system wide and structural.
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  S2: He said that there's been increased competition between schools, growing
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  S2: private school sector in Ecuador, funding and selective enrollment practices,
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  S2: which had contributed to a more segregated school system, which
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  S2: means essentially some schools have, um, a higher proportion of
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  S2: students who face disadvantaged than other schools. And, you know, Molina,
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  S2: he said, you know, in a country that is progressive,
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  S2: that takes equity seriously in every single state and territory
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  S2: to see that that has not materialized in closing the
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  S2: gap for students in different backgrounds, and that those gaps
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  S2: are widening. It's very problematic.
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  S1: And I guess I just wanted to ask you your
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  S1: impression on sort of digesting these findings. Like, were you
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  S1: shocked by this widening gap between children from the haves
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  S1: and children from the have nots? Because I was I
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  S1: was surprised, I was surprised. This is perhaps a finding
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  S1: that and maybe this is ignorant, but that, you know,
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  S1: that I would have expected to see coming out of
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  S1: the United States or, you know, somewhere where there is
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  S1: perhaps less focus on equality than in Australia, where we
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  S1: think of ourselves as being perhaps a little bit more
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  S1: in touch with this need for equality in education. And
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  S1: in other regards, you know, regardless of what your financial
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  S1: situation is.
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  S2: I think that the gap is surprising, that it hasn't
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  S2: decreased over time at all, considering where, you know, there
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  S2: are a lot of different measures being put in place.
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  S2: But I think the thing that that that kind of
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  S2: really swung out to me from Melina's study was that
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  S2: there's nothing that's kind of a national approach. And, you know,
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  S2: these are not easy issues to fix. We're talking about
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  S2: disadvantage in a sense of, you know, young people who
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  S2: have unsecure housing or people who are facing really huge
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  S2: financial troubles in their families or homes. You know, this
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  S2: could be people who, you know, like I spoke with, um,
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  S2: a lovely woman, Mary McManus, who has a terminal illness
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  S2: and she has three children and is a single parent.
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  S2: These are really complex issues. And so it's not a
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  S2: one solution fix all. It's a broad structural, systematic kind
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  S2: of solution that we need to look at, which is
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  S2: not an easy one, which, you know, I think Melina
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  S2: highlighted for sure.
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  S1: And so what are experts and teachers saying about what
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  S1: needs to change to close or shorten this gap between
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  S1: the haves and have nots?
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  S2: So the report recommends a more explicit policy focus on
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  S2: funding schools operating in areas with concentrated disadvantage. And I
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  S2: think that that's a Are really nationalized. Systematic approach. They
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  S2: also recommend targeted intervention at early learning services. So that's
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  S2: really picking up kind of, you know, if you've got
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  S2: a young person who maybe is neurodiverse or is having
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  S2: sensory difficulties or, you know, if there's kind of speech impediments,
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  S2: getting to those, those issues really early on can really
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  S2: help their performance in school and their integration in school.
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  S2: Another thing they recommend is full service schools. And that's
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  S2: something that I went into in my article as well.
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  S2: Full service schools really target schools that maybe have a
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  S2: higher level of disadvantage. And the idea is that they
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  S2: have a range of different services on site or very
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  S2: easily accessible so that parents, families, students can get access
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  S2: to kind of health, social and wellbeing supports. You know,
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  S2: a range of things that may be hard to get
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  S2: there may may face barriers in accessing some of those
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  S2: support services and can really help in having a better
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  S2: school experience, better, better ability to to really participate.
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  S4: And I hadn't actually.
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  S1: Heard of that term full service schools before that you've
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  S1: just described. So a, do we have them in Australia yet? Uh, and, or,
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  S1: and B, is there a scope for us having more like,
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  S1: is there is there much appetite? Do you think that
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  S1: this is something that will be supported perhaps by the
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  S1: government in future or future governments?
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  S2: Yeah. So there, there are a few similar models in Australia. Um,
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  S2: in Victoria there there's a group called Our Place. They
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  S2: have nine sites which are kind of linked in with
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  S2: 11 different schools. And they do everything that I mentioned
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  S2: before they have maybe Berry Street might might be involved,
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  S2: they may have kind of early daycare facilities or different
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  S2: supports easily accessible for parents. Um, I spoke with a
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  S2: family who was at northern Bay P12 College, which is
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  S2: in Corio. They are linked in with an with our
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  S2: place and they said that having that extra support so
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  S2: easily accessible, you know, was life changing for their children.
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  S2: It really meant that that their family could really be
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  S2: integrated in the school in a, in a really strong way.
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  S2: It's something that's already established in the US. So California
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  S2: invested about $5.75 billion to expand full service schools in
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  S2: disadvantaged communities there. And there was a review of 300
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  S2: community schools in New York, which is kind of similar
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  S2: to a full service school. And they found really strong outcomes, which,
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  S2: you know, not just in their their results, but, you know,
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  S2: a drop in absenteeism and suspensions and. Yeah.
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  S1: Interesting. Okay. And I guess especially because the, the leader
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  S1: of this study that you keep mentioning that he thinks
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  S1: that we need a national approach. Obviously, this is something that, well,
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  S1: in his view, it seems like can only be fixed
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  S1: with some seriously holistic, massive measures. But where, I guess,
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  S1: does this leave naprelan? Like if we've seen this massive
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  S1: widening of gap between disadvantaged and advantaged students, like, should
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  S1: NAPLAN just be scrapped? Has it has it perhaps not
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  S1: worked or just outlived its use?
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  S2: I think NAPLAN does play an important role. In Victoria,
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  S2: the introduction of explicit teaching and synthetic phonics has actually
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  S2: shown a real improvement in disadvantaged cohorts. And I think
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  S2: that that will that will we will see more of
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  S2: those results in coming years, potentially. But I think it
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  S2: shows that we need a more focused attention on disadvantaged
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  S2: students when it comes to interventions. And, you know, that
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  S2: those interventions probably need to be holistic. There's some debate
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  S2: over like, can we afford to integrate all these services
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  S2: into schools? Well, at the moment, you know, some of
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  S2: the research shows that it doesn't actually cost that much
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  S2: to do. You know, there's an initial spend, but then
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  S2: once once this is integrated, it's pretty low cost and
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  S2: the outcomes are way better than, you know, putting putting
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  S2: that that funding there is potentially way better as preventative
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  S2: than the alternative. So I think, um, you know, when
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  S2: you think about it, if a student goes to school
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  S2: on the day of an unplanned test, but they are
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  S2: facing housing insecurity or family issues, if there's family violence,
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  S2: you know, it's going to be pretty hard for them
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  S2: to perform at their best. So yeah, I think that's
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  S2: kind of what this study shows.
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  S1: Well, thank you so much, Nicole, for your time.
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  S2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 14:22
  S1: In other news, today, the federal government has spent more
• 14:26
  S1: than $1 billion of taxpayer money compensating universities for students
• 14:30
  S1: who never attended under an offset scheme that saw some
• 14:34
  S1: institutions receive $100 million each in tourism hotspots across the nation.
• 14:41
  S1: The number of Airbnbs and other short term accommodation hit
• 14:45
  S1: record highs by the end of 2024, driving up rents
• 14:49
  S1: for longer term tenants, and new research suggests that young
• 14:53
  S1: women are being put off motherhood after seeing their own
• 14:56
  S1: mothers burn out after caring for parents and children while
• 15:00
  S1: working full time. You can read more at the age.com.au
• 15:05
  S1: or smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong. Our
• 15:11
  S1: executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen
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