Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The After Dark Bandits: The Morgan Twins [Part Two] | Peter Morgan

Transcript

The After Dark Bandits: The Morgan Twins [Part Two] | Peter Morgan · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Appoche Production.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Adam Shand. This is part two of my conversation with
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Peter Morgan from the After Dark Bandit story. Authorities are
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: stumped as the same man appears to be in two
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: places at once twenty four robberies later, all was revealed
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: police had been out foxed by Lot one bandits, but
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: two out smarting police for years, becoming Australia's most wanted.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Men, identical twins Peter and Doug Morgan.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: In this episode, Peter discusses how he and his identical
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: twin brother Doug became Australia's most wanted men before they
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: were captured, how Penridge prison walls couldn't contain Peter, and
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: why he finally changed his heart in jail and left
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: crime behind forever. We pick up the story in April
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, just after Peter has shot a police
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: off us a senior Constable Ray Kosh during a bank
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: robbery and Heathcoat one hundred and ten kilometers north of Melbourne.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: We're rolling again there so after being involved in the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: police shooting with Ray Kosh robbing the bank, being confronted
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: by the second copper, and I'd ride past him and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: eventually lose him. I then go to my rondevous point,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: which is supposed to be two o'clock the next morning,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and history would tell me that Douglas couldn't pick me
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: up because it was too hot in the area. I'm
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: aware of how hot it is because I've got a radio,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't tell me where the roadblocks are. Because
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: we would always look at maps and I could basically go.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I'll use some towns as an example. Let's be near
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Kelly for a second. If I was going to rob
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a bank at Euroa. Up the road from Euroa is Banella.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Down the road is Boggorne blank seymore right. But you
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: look at the maps for that area and you go.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And it was a loaned knowledge that brought me to
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: these was that if it's thirty kilometers to the next town,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: and if the cop in that town leaves his town
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: at the same time I leave the bank, if we
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: both drive for fifteen kilometers, will dead heat if we're
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: driving up the same road. So therefore I cannot drive
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: up that road to halfway. And on the other hand,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: he should neither. He should be back at a road
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: or an intersection that he knows you's sealed without me
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: passing him. So logically you can look at a map
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and pinpoint where they'll roadblock to contain me. And once
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: you know that, then all you have to do is
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: get to that point and pass it. And if that
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: means walking around the roadblock area in the dark, whether
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: you're a kilometer over and a bush walking past it,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: or whether you're ten meters in the dark walk path
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And on several occasions, one for example, was
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the t B at Lilydale, and that's a Metropolitan one,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: which is a bit different to what I normally did,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: but I pinpointed where the roadblocks would be after doing
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the ta B. It went down some side streets into
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: what was a vacant area and upper hill back towards Montro's.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: My kit bag was there with cannacoke, some Chockey's and
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I sat on a log and I watched police cars
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: converge into the area and set because I'm on the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: top of a hill and they set roadblocks exactly where
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I anticipated, so all I had to do was walk
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: between the They're a climber apart on different roads, because
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: there's four or five roads into Lilydale, So quite simply,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: if you're driving out, you've got to go on a
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: different road, or if you're walking out, you just don't
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: walk down the road and go where the police car is.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: It was that basic. You get to estimate where they
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: would be because they're just doing a logical thing. They're
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: closing the area down and they're going to have one
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: car from each town. So even if there's like four
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: towns around your town, there's four roadblocks, that's all all
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: be And if you go and if there's six roads,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and if you're smart enough, you could actually drive out.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: But I was never that cocky to actually want to
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: drive out of the area.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: But I think it also leaned on the very first job,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: the value of getting off the road, yeah, and walking
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and this type of thing.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, after the shooting.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Of Kosh, this is a dramatic escalation for you, how
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: are you feeling at that point during.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: The shooting and picking him up and telling him I
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: should kill him because he sees my face taking him
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: inside the bank, robbing the bank, escaping and having the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: other cop chase me and all that. That period's probably
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: an hour by time, the confrontation with Ray in the street,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the bank robbery, and then being chased by the second cop.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: So I'm all out of credit. On the adrenaline, I
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: was going to be a body like I've pushed as
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: hard as I can. And once I got into my
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: safe place where I'm going to hide the bike, it
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: was a soundtrack. I actually fell over. I was so
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: exhausted from what had just transpired. It was like in
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: a Cowboy movie where the horse gets shot and I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: went down and I'm laying under the bike and I'm
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: just totally buggered. And at that point I've actually pulled
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: my weapons and gone Custer's last stand. This is where
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: it's going to end right here, because I can't get
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: out from under the bike. So anyway, subsequently he's gone
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the wrong way, so he doesn't know where I am.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: And once I'd actually hidden the bike where I had
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: predetermined and just put the cup branches over it, you
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: sort of take a breath and go, what the earth?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: And then my personal charter on behavior and armed robberies
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: had been breached, and you go, oh, what am I
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: going to do? Something that it's never been said till
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: today is I had a safe house that Douglas didn't
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: know about. Nobody knew. I was renting a room in
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: a house from a widow in Essendon, and I had
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a car there. My cover story was I was a
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Melbourne person working in the state and once a month
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: or whatever, I had to come back to Melbourne and
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: it was worth it for me to have this car
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and this room because it's cheaper than worrying about motels
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and whatever. So and she was happy with one hundred
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: dollars a week or whatever it was. I was given
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: them way more than whatever the going rate was. Sometimes
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I wonder what happened to the car, But anyway, she
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: got the car in the eddy, but I guess she did.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure a good deal for her. Well, probably
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: might as just sold up a scrap, I don't know.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So once the dust had settled, so to spoke, and
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I've got to walk the thirty odd kilometers to the
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: pickup point, it starts dawning on me the reality what's
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: just happened. How ironic it is that nearly twelve months
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: before that, Douglast had discharged his weapon and I got
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: angry about it. And I've previously said this, that I
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: was going to kill him for it. That was his punishment.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: It broke my rules, You're going to die. And then
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I realized that I did that. Well, I was breaking
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: my rules too, So no, the gun was aimed at him,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and everything I was going to put full magazine into
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: him just hadn't worked out what I was going to
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: put the body. So yeah, the realization that twelve months
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: ago declaring war on my brother for being violent, and
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: here I've fallen into the same thing.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: You don't know whether Kosh is going to survive at
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: this point, well exactly, I don't know anything really survived.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: The listeners you can the rest of it. He did survive,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: but you didn't know at this time.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: But the news reports that I'm go on my radio
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: is that he's gravely ill. Like they don't tell you much,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: but he's in the hospital and he's fighting for his life.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: That's all I knew, and I'm thinking, hey, he didn't
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: look that bad to me. But I'm not saying I
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: never thought that they were lying. But also what I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: gleaned from the radio news reports was they basically sealed
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: off the state and so I sort of knew before
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I got to the pickup point, that it wasn't a
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: pickup point. So anyway, I've walked in double time what
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: a normal walking time to a pickup. I got there
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: really easily and in that time, and of course there
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: was no Douglas. And then I realized, like I'm in
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: over my head a year as far as i'm what
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: am I going to do? The funny thing is that
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the pickup point was actually a church at a Hackstar.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So I get there and I think it must be
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: it must have been a clear sky at night because
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: it was freezing and here some hours before robbed the
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: bank shot a cop. Now I'm sitting on the front
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: doorstep of a church, freezing my ass off. I think
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I better kick the door in the go and SiGe
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: and get warm, And the funny moral ethic thing comes
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: in and go, I can't do that. That's bad, you know,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: because you don't know you're probably to some level the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: hardest criminals will be in some sort of level of
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: shock or dismay or something. So I'm not sure if
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: my mental state at the stage, but by the morning,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: when obviously i'm I'm very aware that there's no pickup,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I made the decision to get into Bendigo from Anxdale,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: so of his sight in the Benigo. My mindset is
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that I'm going to get a bigger bag to put
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: my bag in. Then I only go to a closed
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: store and buy different clothes.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: The table still carrying your sort off shotgun in the bag,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and you're browning twenty five in my.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Kit bag, if you want to call it that. So
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I've gone into a today's version is Big W. So
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I've gone into Big W and bought a cross between
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: a briefcase and a suitcase which fits my stuff. I've
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: taken my wholester off and put that in the bag,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: and I've put a couple of hundred bucks in my pocket,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I think from a memory, and I've put the pistol
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: in my back pocket. So now I've got to go
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and get some a different jumper because I've got the
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: same jumper on. And that's when I'm walking around the
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: corner and iWatch fromounce it wrong. But in the main
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: street of Benigo is Pall Mall. I'm walking one way
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Atvvan goes the other way. And it was one of
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: those cases where you go he knows I know that
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: he knows that I know there's a lane there called
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Victoria Lane. So I've walked up the lane and unbeknown
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to me, it's a dead end, like the end of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the lane is the back door of some shop. So
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going, oh, this is good. I've got a dimmy
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: van with a cop in it. That when I walked
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: into the lane, I saw him looking in his mirror
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: seeing where I was going, So it was all that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: sort of telepathy and I want, oh freger now. So
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I started walking back down the lane towards the entrance
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: of the lane, and he's coming up the lane, lucky
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: for him and for me after the shooting the day before,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: because I wasn't totally sure what it really transpired. So
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it sounds silly, but I emptied the bullets out of
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the pistol into my hand out of the magazine. I
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: went three. Okay, it was an only five mag so
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I've definitely di che put him back in the magazine,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: threw it into the pistol and never pulled it. So
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: in other words, it's not cocked or ready to use,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: which I always had ready to use, but for some
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: reason I didn't. So at that point, anyway, I'm walking
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: to the entrance of the lane and who I now
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: know to be reckcased. He's walking up the lane. He's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: off duty, apparently going to the hospital to donate blood
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: to Ray Coosh. So it's really in his mind. It's
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: really in my mind because I'm the bad dude. So
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that's why there was this. I know. He knows that
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I know. So he stops me. I put the bag
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: in front of us, and he said, you know, someone like,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: who are you? And I actually straight off to him
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: put him walbin, what are you doing? I'm going to
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: foot you. What's in the bag? Stuff? Could I look
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: in the bag?
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Sure, So he half risks me. He's sort of like
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: half padded me down and even patted my back pocket
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that's got the pistol in it. That's got a hanky
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: over the pistol. So as he's bent down, he's opened
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the suitcases in front of me, and as he's opened it,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: the lids come back on my feet. So he's on
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the other side of it and he's opening up Pandora's box.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: So inside the small suitcase is my bag and in
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: that bag is the sawn shotgun, the money, and my
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: mask sort of poking out at the top of the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: bag was the hair of the mask and the butt
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of the gun. So as soon as he's seen that,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: he didn't even open it anymore. He's gone. He's looked
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: up at me and I'm gone, you idiot. So I've
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: gone like that, pulled the pistol. I'm left handed, so
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: went like that. He stood up and I've aimed at him.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: But he didn't really want to play. So when you
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: say it didn't want to pay, well, he didn't want
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to surround, he didn't want to be arrested. He was
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: playing a game. So at that point, we're wrestling and
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: he's a big time bike rider. So he's five eight
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: five nine, but skinny, I'm pretty fit. But I'm fourteenth
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: fifteen stone, so I'm bigger than him, and I've got
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: more to lose than him. When he's telling the truth
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: about the encounter, he said, I wrestled like a bear,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: and I did. I overpowered him.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: So at this point, you got the gun in your hand,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: why didn't you shoot him?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, at that point where he's sometimes you sort of
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: live in the fantasy that are a point a gun
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: on somebody, somebody're gonna they're going to submit, And he
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: didn't so then I basically punched into his chest and
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: pulled the trigger twice and didn't go off. And as
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I'm doing that, I realized, Q, idiot, you didn't throw
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: one in the breach. There was no premeditation to do that.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: It was just survival, right, Like we're not like you
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: better company down the PlayStation or would you let it
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: go for a coffee? This was real. Once that happened,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: we're struggling. I overpower him and push him away. I'm
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: still facing back to the main street. He's looking into
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: the lane. At that point, I pushed him away because
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I'm bigger than him. I can hear the sirens going.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I can even see reflections of blue and red flashing
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: lights bouncing off things out in the street him though
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: it's daylight, like, ah, don't by the wall. We can't win.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: So once I pushed him off, I've still got a
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: pistol in my hand. I threw it into the bag,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: into the suitcase and said something really corny, like you've
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: got me copper. You've just become a hero. He tells
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: it totally different. It's sort of that first part is
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the way he tells it, But then he says that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: he overpowered me. He had me up against the wall.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: He's handed on my throat saying don't move or or
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: kill you, which is not what it plays. I was
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: should say in the first place, but that's all his
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: he wanted. You know, he got a middle and he
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: deserved a medal, so he elaborated on it and exaggerated
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: to make him ten foot tall. But the reality was
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I overpowered him, realized that the game was up. I'd
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: already told him my name, so I'd already surrendered anyway,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: So once telling him his name, like even if I
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: got away, they're still going to give me. Eventually, probably
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: twenty seconds later, I'm being carried out on the lane
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: strips naked in main street of Bendigo, and from memory,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: two or three coppers jumped on top of me in
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the TV van and took me around to the cop
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: shop to give you a kicking. Never been touched. The
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: sad thing about subsequent things that happened there, I mean
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the main Benigo police station and somebody rings them up
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and says, if you don't let put him or the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: person go. I don't know if they named me because
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I was on the news very quick, but somebody rang
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: them a suit. If he don't let him go, the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: bomb will it exploded. So now they're in lockdown. They
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: are using ladders through a window to come in and
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: out of the police station. The first part of being
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: in the police station, all I remember is I couldn't
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: see the walls. I'm being men handled down a hallway
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and all I can see is blue. I can't see
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the walls. It's obviously not a guard of honor, it's
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: a guard of dishonor. But I cannot see the walls. Anyway.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I put in a room, and obviously because of the
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: shooting the day before, there's some heavies up there from Melbourne,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and some I don't know who it was, comes in
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: with this list and he goes, are these yours? And
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: he shows me this long list and it's a list
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: of the jobs, and look at it and I screw
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: it anyway, So yeah, tick tick tick tick tick tick.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't even read it and just signed it to year.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: They are mine. At that point, I'm being either protected
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: from the bomb or whatever. It's hard to know the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: time frames in these things, but a few minutes later
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: or an hour later, whatever it might be. In Walsh's
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: s Delanus Yes, walks in with a sergeant detected you.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Arthur Rubens Robins walks straight to me, puts his hand
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: out and says, pleased to meet you, But not in
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the circumstances I wanted. I was the head of Armorers.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately I'm now head of homicide. And unfortunately, Lad, you've
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: broken the rules. You've shot the umpire. I think this
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: man like I don't know him really, but I know
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that he's the boss. He's shaken my hand the day
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: after I shot one of his boys. He was more
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: worried about introducing himself than the welfare of that cop,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and had never changed, if there's a regret. Subsequently, when
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: they started going through the process of taking me to court,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I was obviously charged with will the arm robberies, which
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I was playing guilty to, and they charged with intent
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to murder a police officer. And every day from there
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: to now I was not guilty of shooting of intending
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: to murder a police officer, so I pleaded not guilty
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: to it. Now I'm found not guilty of the shooting.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: The Justice Murray directed the jury to find me not
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: guilty of those charges, but of lesser charges of relevant
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: to the gun and other stuff, but the actual shooting.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Whilst I admitted shooting Ray, there was no penalty because
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the three they usually go like intent to murder, intent
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: to cause GBH, and then there was intent to put
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: malicious wounding if you find me, if there's no intent,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I'm innocent of all three. And that was their mistake,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and they sold Ray down the river for it, because
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: what they should have done was charged me with attempted
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: murder and I'm guilty every day of the week in
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: a normal court environment. They wanted to put me away
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: for life, and they needed intent to move to do that.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: What's happened. What happened to Ray in the end, he unfortunately,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: he died prematurely ten to fifteen years later. And I'm
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: not sure the act diagnosis, but basically the blood that
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: saved his life was infected with hepatitis. Yeah, but in
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: all fairness, I take total ownership of what happened. I
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: take total ownership that I shortened his life because if
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't shoot him, then he wouldn't have needed the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: blood transfers. If you look at the picture, you gotta
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: take ownership. And that's the fact that I shortened his life.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Irrespective of whether I'm guilty or anything. And if I
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: have a regret, I would never say sorry to any others.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: But I feel for him and the family because adding
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: your closure, because the crown wanted my head and they
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: went for my head. They hung him out to dry
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: to the day that he died, and I guess any
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: living relatives they never got closure because Peter didn't pay
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: the price.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: You got through the break, but you still carry the
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: regret of that. I can tell it's affected your psychologically
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: ever since.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Well, the thing is that because my whole motivations are
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: doing it was I thought I was dying, and it's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: a death wish, and then when you come out the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: other end of the tunnel and you realize that that
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: was false, then you go, oh my god, what have
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: we done. That's what I gleamed from that is that
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: once I realized that my heart attacks were psychosomatic, there
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: were panic attacks well effectively. Yeah, And there's lots of
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: different labels to this three day I don't know what
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: if you had a panictator, I don't know where your
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: symptoms are. But my symptoms were that that my heart
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: would be gun at about two hundred and thirty forty
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: beats a minute. My senses increased. If I touched my hand,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: it felt like I was using sandpaper on my hand,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: So all my senses increased east And now that I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: think back, the first time I had a panic attack
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: was when I was fourteen.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so everything changes. That's a bit later though. But first,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I guess the main point of contention when any of
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: you dug was that she gave him up. And I
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: said to him in the interview, he saved your life
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: because they were all after you at that point, the
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: police were going to get you. Yeah, what was that
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: process of how his presence was revealed? The fact that
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: you were twins, right, not just one of.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: The well, the rules that I put to him after
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: he did the first shooting. My take on it was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: different to what he said happened was basically that whoe
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: gets arrested first gives you only a twelve hours start,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: which gets you to New Zealand or West Australia wherever. Now,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: what actually happened was, as I said, they've got me
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: in Bennigo police station. They shown me this form and
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I've ticked them all off unto Yeah, they're might so
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: they're happy. I've just confessed to I've sold half the
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: tab problems in Victoria. Not that they're breaking out the champagne,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: but the thing is, at that point they're okay with it.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Who am I on, Peter Morgan? Where do you live?
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the address, but I lived on a
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: farm in Nioura. So I'm flown by helicopter back to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Russell Street. So by the time we get back there
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: at five six o'clock whatever it was, they've fed me.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: They've drugged me in their coffee. They're getting me ready
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: for interviews. They've drugged you what sort of drug? I
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: have no idea. I was there for about two weeks.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I was talking to God. But not until you see,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: when you're in the watchhouse for an extended period of time,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you get fed in the watchhouse, so you know, you
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: get whatever the breakfast was, I can't remember, and you
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: get a drink. It would be a cup of tea
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: or whatever it was. He slops. But when they took
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: me across from there to be questioned, the rituals the same.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Every morning. Relax, have a coffee. We'll be back to
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you soon. Every day. By about three or four days
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: into it, when I went back to sleep in the watchhouse,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: which I never slept because they've got the light on
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the camera on watching me because I'm out the dark. Panted. Yeah,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I was talking to God, basically, any went up there
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to listen and I sort of knew, and it didn't
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: change things because whether it's a weakness, I don't see
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: this as a weakness. But if you do something wrong
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and you get caught, you lost, if there's so much
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: evidence against you, what are you going to insult your
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: own intelligence and say you're not guilty and then at
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the end of the trial when they find you guilty.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm really a good guy, So now treat me lightly,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I think you lose your credibility. You also get more
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: more jail time too, So I know they're going to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: go to my farm. They're going to find guns, a
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: black book, surveillance, forestry maps, various other things. I basically
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: carrying the gun that I stole from a bank. So
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I'm guilty of two banks at least. So there's no
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: avenue to, realistically, with any credibility plead not guilty. Only
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: thing I can do is plead guilty to what I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: believe I didn't do. And that was the shooting. If
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: you take the word intend of white plead guilty, but
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't take it off. But you're taken back to
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the farm right now. By the time they do that,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it's probably seven o'clock, eight o'clock, and they're rifling through everything,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: and they're finding the other guns, and they've found all
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: these motorbikes and whatever is and then anything else of interest.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But they're rifling through draws and desks and whatever in
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: the house and they come across a photo and it's
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: myself and my brother out of a posh restaurant with
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: one of our uncles, and they go, there's two of them.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So they've come back to me. Apparently one of those
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: cops has run Russell Street and gone, yes, what we
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: now know how he did it. The secret's out. So
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: they've come into me and gone, where's your brother? Are gone?
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know they're gone. We know he's in Bold
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and I just haven't disputed that I've gone. Well, the
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: same thing but in my mind is I've given you
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: twelve hours start, which turned out to be about ten
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: hours start. But you haven't gone to Brisbane. You haven't
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: gone to Western Australia. You haven't gone to New Zealand.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: You live at Cranbourne, and you've gone to Frankston and
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: lived in a motel for three or four days under
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: your right name. But the funny thing is that I
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: know for a fact, and that's three or four days
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: that they were looking for him. They weren't looking for him.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: They know a little bitter than I do. And they
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: had discussed the reality of two twins, identical twins doing
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: jobs together, but only one at a time. If I
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: say he did it, and he said I did it,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: we both walk. You can't prove which one has did
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: it because defense, and you can't prove which one of
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: us did it because we both got the same DNA,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: not that they used DNA in those days. So the
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: only way they could actually prove one of us did
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: it is if they had fingerprints at a job. But
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: they knew all this and I didn't. And funnily enough,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: in the early days of being in the Russell Street
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and even early days in Pantridge, two prisoners tried to
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: reach out to me and tell me that I could
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: not be convicted of it if we did that the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: scenario he did it, I didn't do it. He did it.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: One was Peter Allen and the other one was Peter
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Lawless to Bush Lawyers. So I'm not happy when I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: get talked about that I'm some sort of dog informer.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Is that's not what happened. What happened was I told
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you the rules of my jobs on the Kingpin, and
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: if you play, you got to play with my rules.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Don't come back to me and say I didn't think
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the rules really were the rules. So I wear that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I've got to wear the consequence of what I did.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I've got to wear the fact that they would have
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: got him anyway no matter what I said. Right, There
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: was so much evidence, and there was also that they
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: wanted to convict family members as well, so there was
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: a deal. Yeah, no guilty.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: The average person, listen, this is going to say, as
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I did to Doug, mate, Peter saved your life because
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: they would have got him anyway.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: The two stories, Yeah, the two stories were put to
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: me is we don't want him because it complicates it.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: They didn't tell me why, but they basically suggested to
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: me that they really didn't want to bring him in.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And the other one was tongue in Cheegue was put
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to me that if he comes in, we have to
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: make him disappear because we want you and we got you.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: He's just going to complicate it. But both of us,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: being to use the term squareheads, didn't realize this. You
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: were squareheads. This is your first arrest, that's right in
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: your life. Yeah, and what'd you end up getting? Well,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: it continued to grow because the original sentence we both
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: got seventeen years or twelve year minimum, which in those
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: days meant survey years. Could live with that. Then, out
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: of time for appeal, I'm found not guilty of the shooting.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: The police union jumps up and down, which they should
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I forget. The DPP or whatever it is, allows a
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: belated appeal by the crowd, heel by the crown outside
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: of time, which I would never get. But they got
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: so under pressure from the police Union and whoever. We're
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: taken to the stateful court and our sentences are increased.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Mine increased from seventeen or twelve to a twenty one
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and three quarters with an eighteen douglass has increased to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: a twenty were seven. And I think then you add
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: on my misdemeanors with the escape and At one stage,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: the best I could ask made it was I had
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: a twenty four and nine months we were twenty two.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: But near the end of my sens, just playing with
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: the paperwork, I realized that it was an error in
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the concurrencies, which actually meant they overcharged me, and so
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I want to create it. So, to the best of
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: my knowledge, I'm the longest serving non capital robber in
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Victorian history. And no one knew you to this point.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: You get to jail and it is full of these
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: heavy arm robbers and all these heroes of.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: That sort of culture. There are these Morgan brothers.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not armed robbers, they're a couple of yobbos
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: from upcountry.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, actually, on my first day inner yard, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: sort of cat saying galant and they want to read
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: my transcripts and whatever. And I didn't know naive to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: that you shouldn't really do that, but I don't know.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I was just happy to be amongst people again. So anyway,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: a guy comes up to me, probably it was definitely
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the first date, but I'm not sure how early, and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: he looks at me straight in the face and he goes,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: you're a plant. You're not Peter Morgan, and I'm thinking,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Jesus chriss, I wish that was true. In my head,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I'm gone, you're right, Peter Morgan, six foot six and
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: carrying a cannon, because that's what's in the media. And
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: then I thought, my god, what do I landed into
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: a yard of ninety morons, some pretty tough morons amongst them.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Oh well, I better use that term loosely, potentially ninety morons. Yeah,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I got a scar here to prove that. Lorry Pranagas
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: can throw a good punch, Lorry Winnie Chuck. These are
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: important things.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Listen, you're in this jail, You're getting three meals a day,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: and I sell a pleasant but you just you want
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: to break out though, and you end up escaping.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Can I just say at this point it's very hard
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: to talk factually and clinically about crime without sounding like
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you have no remorse or no guilt conscience, and that
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: can be misconscrewed, right, and they can. Kit doesn't give
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: a continental like I don't care about this. Forty seven
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: years later, I still think about all of this on
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a daily basis, and every time people are you talk
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to me, I have nightmares about it, but getting back
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: to that on the escape in eighty three. So I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: progress through DU Division. I'm still in DU Division when
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I'm found not guilty because I'm there going through the
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: trial processes and Douglas has already been processed. So he
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: goes over to the Northern prison A division very very
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: late December or very early January or February. The next year,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, I'm still going through the court cases. With
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the shooting in eighty two, I developed a good friendship
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: with John Price, who had had a checkered life as
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a young guy in the slot involved with Chopper Read
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: and things like that. Rumor has it that he may
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: have been raped or whatever by Chopper, which is none
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: of my business. Couple people who said he was basically
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: canon Foder for a top of reading whatever. Anyway, So
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: he was heavily into education and Jim, that was his life.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: The education probably got him out of Hayes's division. Anyway,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: we live side by side in cells, and you know
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: he's in the gym and everything. I'm into it. So
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: if you either boxed or played tennis or played footy,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I want to know you or I'm open to knowing you.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So That was really my rule. Don't get involved with
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: poeple the center around and cells conspiring, or if it's
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: a five man group and they're routing number five because
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: he's the kid, and that's what happens to the kid.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: That happens to John Price. You're saying, well, it probably did,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: but it happened to nearly all the young kids, unfortunately gangs. See,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of long terms in eight division,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the whole sixth tier, which is about there's eight tiers.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Four of the tiers were for the lifers. I was
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: honored to be on the lipeers tier because of my sentence.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm living amongst murderers before I went to Jayavision.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: So my rule was you socialized with these people, but
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: you don't get involved. So anyway, I was in a
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: division for about a year and they have what they
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: call night activities, which meant you could go up to
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the woodwork room and do woodwork. It was a couple
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: other groups. There might have been a music club I
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: can't remember, and the drama group. Now I couldn't go
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: out to those because their ruling was that the jail
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't secure enough to have two Morgan's out at nighttime,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: so I pulled the ah. I shot a cop? Did
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I card? So I'm not getting a quality with other
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: prisoners because I shot a cop. I did that for
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: about three or four months, and to shut me up,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they sent me a Jayavision where it was more secure
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and they had night activities. So now got equal because
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: what they offered me was and I had to refuse
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: it was they said, you're going to have half a
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: dug's night activities. I went, well, so we're half prisoners,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: we're even sharing. Yeah, exactly, give me half his lolli bag.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: I got wont my own lolli bag. So anyway, all
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: jokes aside. I'm sent to Jadavision. I form a couple
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of associations with people, including John Price, but nothing I
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: would do. Wait, you have associates. I looked at jail
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: like you look at your workplace. If you don't, I
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: don't take a home to meet mum. They're not your friends,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: they're associates. Some associates you can trust and some you can't.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: When you determine their levels, then that's all good. John
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: was full in education, which fascinated because I was one
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: of the only Morgans that never went to UNI, and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I promised my dad I would, so there was a
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: bond there anyway, sometimes guessing it was sometime early eighty two.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: It was the Falklands War had just been on, and
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: his parents were here in Australia and his older brother
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: was injured in the Auklands Low because they were English,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and the parents were going to break up, and one
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: was going to go back to United Kingdom and be
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: with the war hero help him convalesce, and one was
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: going to stay here to look after the bad boy
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: with John in jail. At the same time, somebody else
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I suspect a particular person was putting pressure on John
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to build a bomb. He'd outlived that phase of his life,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: so he had the pressure of his parents going to
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: break up, the pressure or somebody wanted him to re
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: enter the darker side again. And the third thing was
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: after he'd done about ten years, I think from memory,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: and he was expecting his own governor's pleasure be use
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: his underage murderer. But you still have a bit of
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: a game plan on what's where it's going. So he
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: figured that by ten years he was fairly due to
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: go to a country prison, which is a stepping stone
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: to eventually getting released on governor's pleasure. He came back
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: from classification totally broken and said, it'll be at least
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: three years before I can go away, And we all
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: knew that that meant. Let's say, he thought he said
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: he's going to do fifteen, suddenly he's doing twenty because
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: as a nondiscriminate sentence, so it's not up to the governor,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: but it's up to the parole board. Now theoretically could
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: still be there for the rest of their life, and
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: there have been people that have been there for the
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: rest of their life, Bobby Barron a few others correct.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: So for a week he's telling me he's going to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: commit suicide because of these three things hanging over his head.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: So every day I talk him out of it. I'm
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: not sure which day you're going, but roughly a week
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: into it, I'm standing on myself because he always said
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: that to me, that I wasn't going to make it
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't fair on my wife, and I thought
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I agreed with him because I'm only three years in
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: or whatever. So he walks in behind me and puts
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: me what he loosely called a sloop hold. I'm gone.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Lucky for me. A later enemy of mine walks in,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: sees what's going on, and King hits him, and now
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you know, after he can suicide. I realized what he's
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: gonna do. It's going to kill me in the afternoon,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: at three or four in the afternoon, he's going to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: go back to his cell. They're going to lock us
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: all down. I'm dead, but they're going to lock everyone
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: else down and start investigating. And that night he's going
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to commit suicide. So he solved two problems, his family's
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: problems and my family's problems, and one more day after
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: that that he committed suicide, hung himself in the shower.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: This all leads you up to wanting to escape mentality, right,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the system shocked that somebody in Jadavision would commit suicide.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: How do you commit suicide? And our motels. So Grant Johnson,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: who was the assistant director or something, he'd come in
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: there and talk to us, and I used to talk
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: to him on a regular basis, and he actually confided
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: in me that, like you know, jail does affect you,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. And they were trying to
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: make it okay there they didn't want I don't know
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: what they was. They were just trying to make everybody
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: happy again in jadavision them should have been hung with him.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: But another story. So I wasn't quite right. I was
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: out for vengeance. The system killed him, and three months
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: later I've got to chip on my shoulder about what's happened.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: A couple of guys come to me and said, what's
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the feasibility of escaping out here? I said, I'll look
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: into it. And we were putting together a drama group
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: at the time in the day room, which was where
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: we did nine activities with visitors and things. And I'm
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: not sure at the time frame, but let's say six
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: months after John committed suicide. So I looked at it
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and I've just built a stage in the day room
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: and I've put false panels with the back of the
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: stage against a wall. And I'm a trade so I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: understand things. And behind the collassible wall is an event,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: but you can't tamper with it because you can see it.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: But now you can't see it because it's behind that wall.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: And because we're talking about when we were rehearsing to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: do a play which was never going to happen. We
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: didn't know at the time. They were just appeasing us
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: because they're John. So anyway, I'm doing this play. We
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: rehearsed it for about six months. I reckon we girls
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: from outside the old movie Boeing Boeing, So we're rehearsing it.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I've worked out that, yeah, we could get out through
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that vent. But des Lang, who was the engineer in
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: the worlding shop, I worked as a bookkeeper and draftsman
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: in there, he just said in conversation, he said, you
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: could never do a public play in jadavision, And I went,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: why they got one in a division? He says, because
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: your room hasn't got a fire escape. So I put
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: it to Governor's snook that would need a fire escape.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: And Governor still gave me the drawings to the building
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: so I could design a fire escape to the room.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: So I had the architecture and engineers drawings of the walls,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: the roof, the way the windows connected into the concrete.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I had, like I knew how the building was built,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: and I knew how to read plants. I looked at
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: the drawings and I went wool and behind that vent
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: at the end of the room was a toilet block
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: with all I was ceiling. So I mean, if you
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: went through that event, which was this big, you're actually
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: in a ceiling space of about two foot high und high.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: It took me three months to get my way through
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: that event because it was the bars in the event
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: were welded to the reinforcing rods in the concrete and all.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: This was the payback about John. You bastards. You indirectly
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: killed John. So cop this one, how far as you
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: get Oh, we got out. The deal was, and the
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: original person asked me, left town and went to a
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: country prison, and suddenly the pressure they was certain every
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: night about a week later after he left. And I'm
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: not that dumb, as I said, I'm like Gibbs, I
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: don't believe in coincidences. So anyway, knowing the system by
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: then I've been there nearly four years, and knowing who
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: might have loose lips. I told a guy in the division.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Now he come to me, that's right, said they think
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: something was happening. Do you know if anything, haven't you?
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I went, no, not here anyway, So I went, I'll
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: look into it because it could ruin all our things,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: our night activities and stuff. So About a few days later,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I went back to him and said to yeah, there
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: was something happening, but they've stopped and we're in about
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: day the pressure come off, normal searches. See that's effective.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: So that's all good. And then what actually happened was
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that I'm working through getting the escape done, and I'm
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: making ladders for the wall and all sort of like
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: a man or when it comes to that sort of stuff.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: So I've made one of those you see him in
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the cowboard things. So it's a piece of wood with
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: broom handles through it, so you just climb up the
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: ladder instead of a rope. So I've made the hook
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: that goes over the wall. I've made the twelve foot
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: piece of timber that joins in half bolts together with
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: all the slats, so you climb up the wall then
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: jump off the other side. I've got welding cables as
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the rope from in the engineering shop. So that's all good.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Let's get it all ready. Everything's planning, evering's done, And
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the agreement with the people that were coming on the
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: escate was Doug was still is angry about it. He
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: gave me some money towards the escape. One guy was
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: going to look after getting car and guns. One guy
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: was going to get her somewhere to stay, and the
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: other guy was looking after the money. So anyway, successful
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: escape from an escape through prison, get over the wall,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: the car, no guns, but the trains that way. So
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: the upshot is nobody organized nothing, and the guy that
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: was holding money spent it on drugs. Uh oh.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Morgan's fellow escapes were Norm Bloomfield, who was doing life
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: for murder, Ross Burley serving twenty one years for armed robbery,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: and Trevor Bradley another armed Robert doing sixteen years.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: And we're red hot and one of us has got
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: a broken leg because he fell off the roof, right yeah,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: tree Bradley fell off the roof because wouldn't listen to
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: me when we're up on the roof. Getting off the roof.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: We're out through the building on the roof in Jada vision,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and we're going to go down and over to the fence,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: cut the fence and go through. And I said to
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: the three guys that i'm I said, you've got to
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: double up the welding cables. They're old. And the first
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: guy off the roof was early, was only light skinny.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: That don't need that, so okay. Second guy off the
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: roof was true of Bradley. My size. His head was
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: like a two story building, so his head is still
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: above the roof level when the cable snapped when he
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: hit the concrete below. So he's dropped it straight seven
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: eight meters because industrial type buildings are taller than the house.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So his ankle went off like a cannon. I think
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: he broke it in seven places. I can't remember, but anyway,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I've looked at the other guy because now there's two down,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: one okay and one not okay. And I looked at
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the other guy. I said, told you should have listened
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: double up, and because I'm mad, or there was more cables,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: like if I was planning for four guys to go,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I had enough rapes for ten guys to go. So
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I said, do you want to double it up? He
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: says he, I think I do, but yeah. So we
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: had Trevor Bradley for four days or whatever with gangrene
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: setting it into his leg. We wanted to drop him
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: off at the hospital, and I know one of them
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: was planning to drop him up somewhere more permanent because
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: he was a burden so as we're running to the
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Cobu railway station, I'm thinking maybe I should run that way,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: and wrongly, whilst I was the only they never did
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: anything on the escape, nothing at all, never did anything.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: They're what I call chair escapers. I did the escape
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and they came for the ride. So once we're over
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the wall, I go, oh my god. And then so
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: we go somewhere. I go, okay, who can get a car?
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: And suddenly these career three career criminals have told me
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: they can't steal a car. Okay, well you got grew
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: up in boys homes and stuff and you can't steal
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: a car. It just went from bad to worse, and
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: we ran through a couple of houses and stole cars
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: and tied Purple up. On a moral level, if the
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: armed robberies of the after Dark band it were eight
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: out of ten bad, that three or four days where
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: we ran through houses and tied Purple up was ten
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: out of ten bad. There was one house where and
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: this is why might still struggle with it. A gang of.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Criminals who escaped on Saturday night in Pendridge Jail's biggest
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: breakouts held a family captive for about thirteen hours at Hellsville.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: We're at a house that I used to live in
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: after Bush. I know it's a safe place. The only
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: road in we're going to get about ten minutes. Notice
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: if anyone's coming up the road, because I can see
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: the road over there. Anyway, when it's time to leave
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: the house, what are we doing with the purple dad kid?
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Time up? But there was other suggestions, and I think
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: you know now where this is going on. Two of
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: these guys are murderous. So anyway, okay, we'll time up.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: And the kid was four or five? Three? Oh god,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: So in my wisdom, I volunteer to tie the get up. Sorry, yeah,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: that's what you do. That's the memory that triggers you
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: one of them. M hmm. But the fact that you
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: terrified this kid, well no, he thought it was a game.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: But that's not the point. Yeah. A few years ago,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Pat Breyer, one of the Robbie squad, said do you
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: want to reach out to him and apologize or something?
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: And I said no, maybe I gave him a gun
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and so he can shoot me. That'll make it okay.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Really, well, why couldn't you just apologize?
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: The express were expressing, now, well, one maybe doesn't remember
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: it two. Sorry, it's not enough. So I've always worked
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: on the theory. Say you down the street and there's
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: mum and kids and one of the kids does something
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: inappropriate to you, bumps, you does get in your personal
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: space whatever, and the mum says, tell the man, you're sorry, Johnny.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: How real is it? It's not?
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Is it?
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I get it. So that's why I don't apologize, because
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: it's too late. And then you've got a disciple whether
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: it was real or whether it was a political move
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: or just a strategic thing and easy out. Yeah.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: So after this incident tying up the little boy, how.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Are you caught? How did you go back to jail?
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: So from there we go bush In. I think it's
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: a black forest area around Woodend, quite an area there somewhere,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: like I know the area, but I just can't think
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: where it's exactly at the moment. So from there we
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: basically sit in the car for a day and then
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: we've sort of going to come up with a plan,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: but nobody's putting anything up. And I know the area
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: is like I probably case the area or tab or something,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: so not far from where we were, I knew there
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: was a camp, so let's go and have a look
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: at this camp, like a youth camp sort of place.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: That's all these huts and it's nighttime and there's one
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: car and we look in the window. It was a
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: big wreck area and there's six people sitting around getting drunk.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: One car, six purple. That's it. So Ross Burley, who's
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: a gangster, And I mean that in a drugathy term.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: We got a twenty two caliber rifle from the house
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: the day before, but no bullets. He's busted in like
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Ned Kelly, waving the gun around and that these guys do.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I must have been watching a different movie when I
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: learned how to rob banks. Anyway, So he's menacing the people.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: We're sort of taking control of the air, and I'm
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: getting food out of the kitchen and doing sort of
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: things that we need to do when we're going to
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: swap cars. And somebody says, what about the children? I said,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: what about the children? They said, there's so many kids
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: out there in there in the huts.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: No, this is getting more and more complicated.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Is so? Yeah? And freedom exactly because we're just chasing
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: our tails now. They had no plan, no, because it
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: all went out the window with no supplies. We've got
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: six teachers that we didn't well they teachers and parents
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: or whatever they are. God, we've got seventy kids out there.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Well we do well, we better hurry up and loop
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and they're off their faces. They're drunk, so that one
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: minute they're really not happy. Anice minute they're all pretty
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: with our mates, which they never admitted to later. I
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: get that, but they're not that worried about it because
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: we've shown that we're not here to hurt anybody. We
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: just want some food in the car. So anyway, we've
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: tied them up very loosely, just like on chairs, and
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: tied their hands to the arms of the chairs loose
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: enough like they would have taken them a minute to
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: get off. And the deal was we'll take your empties
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: if you give us half an hour start because you
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: do way someone want to lose your job because of
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: all the grog you've had here at an education camp.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting deal. I've gone. We've really got to
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: go bush Wrefore, without supplies, we got to go a bush.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I'm a bushy. Once I get in the bush, we're
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: home free. So we need to go to Mansfield area
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: and then just go bush for a month whatever. So
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: we're driving through Murchison and there used to and still
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: is an old servoy on the highway near the railway
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: crossing there with the little pub is he was open
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. We're hot, we haven't
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: shaved or washed in four days. They need cigarettes, so
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: not one of them gets out to buy the cigarettes
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. But there's no other
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: like you're talking about like a survey that's one hundred
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: years old, like and the guy's probably that as well.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: So these two rubbing individuals that their face has been
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: planted all over to you the last three days, going
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: to buy a packet of smokes if a two years
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: doing it in the first place. Anyway, So from there,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the route we went, but as quickly
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: as we could to get to Mansfield, we hit the
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: road block. It's just a crossroad. There's a little racetrack there,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: but it's before you get to Mansfield. Anyway, there's a
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: cop car sitting on this intersection. Ross is driving is
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: about as good a driver as his gunny, So he
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: turns around, drives back away from the roadblock, straight off
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the road and smashes into a tree. I go, oh God,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: it's getting worse. You've got to pick you escape with
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: in the situation. I was told that later. So anyway,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I'm in the back seat. It's the two door Jackaroo,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you know, the four wheel drove thing. So Berling and
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Bloomfield are in the front suait, so there they're gone.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: I've got to wait for Trevor to get out where
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: he's broken for it. And then he's got about three
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: meters and collapsed. I'm thinking, sweet, I'm in the bush,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: not really, but I'm near enough to the bush. I'm okay,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I can do this that I've done it before and
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: do it again. And as I ran past Trevor and
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: he was the only one I liked in the group,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: he said, Pete, don't wo me. They'll kill me. They'll
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: shoot me. And for three days on the news they've
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: been going, Peter Morgan, We're going to shoot him. Peter
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Mugan's a cop shooter, break cosh. They had him on
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: TUVU sitting in his lambs room with two shotguns on
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: his lap, waiting for me, Like, why am I going there? Anyway?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: But that's the drama that they put to it. Yeah,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Pat Brier. That was the arm Robert that I still
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: know was stationed at Wodonga and they yeah, he was
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: at Wadonga and he was on TWOV saying I'm waiting
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: for you, Peter. So it was, you know, it was
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: pretty heavy crap. I think it was the first million
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: dollar search anyway, So Bradley pools over says, don't leave me, Peter.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: They'll you know, they'll kill me. And like, now I
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: get my head is Trevor, don't do that. Don't say that.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: So I turned around when I just patted him, I went, Trevor,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: I'll stay with you. So then obviously I still had
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: adrenaline going from all this stuff going on, and anger
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: of the idiot has massed into a tree. So I
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: walked down in the middle of the road and by
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: this time the cop cars come down. So I'm standing
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the road that shirt arms are up,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the guy in there with broken leg needs help, and
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: a car coming the other way stops and it's there
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: shine their lights on me because actually doing this, and
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: the coppers have gone run to us back goods okay,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: sounds good. So anyway later I realized what it was about.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: They thought I was debait because they believe we had
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: guns because a stupid burly earlier in one of the
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: cars in the bush, with nothing to do, picked up
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: empty shells of three zo threes and things and put
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: them in a car, so they thought we had like
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: heavy caliber weapons twenty two and no ammunition. Yeah, so
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: they're thinking I'm the decoy. The other guys are going
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: to ambush them and kill the cops. So that's why
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: they want me to walk backwards up the road, and
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: so I do that to a point where they think
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: they're satisfied. They waved the car on and I hear it,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not going nowhere, and I think I didn't. You
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: don't take it all in at the time, but later
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: on I realized why I'm still alive. So laid down.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Another typical thing. They jump on top of you and
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: they handcup you. While they're handcuffing me, I fell on
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: my face, was two point under the gravel on the
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: side of the road, and I'm sort of doing mathematics
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: at the time. Two officers, four hands, but I can
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: feel a shotgun here, some sort of weapon here, and
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: another one on my back and somebody's doing up the handcuffs,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: something to myself, please don't slip, and you don't actually
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: think please don't slip because they're I won't have a head,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: but I'm actually it was a mathematical equation that there's
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: too many things going on.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: And they would probably thought of quite convenient to dispatch
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: you at that moment.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Well, they said something later, But so in my reckoning
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: was that one of the weapons was actually just between
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: my back and somebody's chest, nearly as a prop or
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: a force down prop or whatever. But when they actually
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: handcuffed me and stood me up and went in and
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: saw that he really wasn't there. They were both sergeants
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: from Mansfield and they've been called in. And one of
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: them said to me, which didn't make it feel much better.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: He said, you know, we're the only two cops in Victoria.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: They don't want to shoot you. And like in my
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I wasn't be very cheeky at the time, I said,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I've been in my head. Didn't feel like it at
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: the time. Oh and by coincidence, they had a helicopter
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: in the area doing training with five hundred cadets or something,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: some big jamboree for police. So the helicopter was there
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: in minutes, so the other two guys got caught within
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: a few hours in the bush or wherever.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: For the record, Burley was caught a few hours later,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: but Bloomfield remained on the run for another three days
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: until he was apprehended on his twenty fifth birthday.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: So you finally you're back at pentry. Did you fight?
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I think you're finally quietened down after this? Is it
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: fair to say no? You don't quite don't quite know
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: it was only warming up.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Jeez, beginning four episodes to cover this one, okay, and
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: now to be serious about that. So I go through
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: the phase of being arrested for after dark stuff. I
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: go through the core cases. I found not guilty. The
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: crown appeals against the staff, and I get more sentence,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: and I feel that I've been wrongly done, but I
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: settle into jail life. My only ever, what I call
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: friend in jail, commits suicide. I blame them on that,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the system on that. So they owe me one oh,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: just to finish that on my cell because it was
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: remember it was the motel units in jadavision. So in
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: my century, heated cell with a shower and hot and
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: cold water oh, and a full on mirror like you'd
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: expect to have in your own bathroom. I wrote on
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: that on the night escape, things like the governor at
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: the time was Murray Snook. He was an acting governor,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: but he was the governor. I guess this means no
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: more special visits in the Governor's office Murray, because he
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: was on the cancel. I wouldn't let us through the play.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: And then below that I wrote this is for a
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: fallen soldier John. And then I'm my typewriter, which I
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: had to type our stuff with at the engineering shop
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: because I love theatrics gold and fishing. Instead, it's just
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: the wuition now to be serious on a psychological level.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: For the first four years, I sort of socialized. I
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: played sports, I boxed, I tackled be Division gangsters at
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: football hard and got punished for it. Jail is relatively easy,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: right as well, within the capacity to do it. It's
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: not the walls, it's not the sentence. It's not even
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: the prison officers make Joe hard. It's the prisoners that
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: make the prison hard. Prison officers allegedly don't rape you,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: they probably don't murder you, and they certainly don't go
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: to your family and hurt them. Prisoners do that. So
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: if I had to just continue to behabe my soul,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I would have done twelve easy years. But because I
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: had a chip on my shoulder, they owed me. Now,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: from a psychological point, the escape was the best thing
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: I could ever done. I'd surrendered my manhood, my will
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: to be independent. Four years in, I flexed my muscles
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: and I showed them that the fifty thousand dollars that
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: they spent on the hinders and report to say that
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Jadavision and Jaiker Jaker were escape proof. Within three months,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: I proved them wrong on both counts. I breached both
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: copped that one. So yeah, there was payback going on.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: But because I took back some of the yes sir,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: three bags pull, Sir, I now became a man again.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: All right, And that sounds a little bit abstract, but
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: the fact is, from every day from that escape, I
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: went toe to toe with whoever it was. If I
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: had done twelve years, yes sir, three bags pull, Sir,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I would have come out a shell.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Because you do hear this that the effect of being
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: in j is to lose dominion over everything, yourself, your manhood.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: That's why we saw people bronzing up and chopping bits
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: of their ears off, their penises off. In some cases
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: cases a lot of people did that, so there was
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: this loss of identity and manhood and humanity.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when people like I talk about two people that
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: want to discuss it, which sometimes I do and sometimes
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I don't. But it's like, try to tell people, fellow
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: carpenters and queenslane what rape really means to a woman,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: like what the guys do to them, And they said, stop,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to vomit. And I said, well, don't ask.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Don't talk about it then because you don't know. But
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: if you knew what some of these rapists do to women,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: you would want it, you certainly would, and you'd want
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the death penalty brought back. But getting back to the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: prison thing is that later on, when I was studying
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: at Deacon, you're doing psychology. You picked up psychology later on,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: So in late eighty three, I decided to study because
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: I was curious what. Oh, it's hard to go forward
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: with have sometimes going back. Johnny Price committed suicide for
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: a reason. At the time wrote a paper. He just
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: finished the paper and submitted it. The title of the
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: paper was suicide the most philosophical question, and my curiosity
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: of what he wrote and what the topic matter was
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: made me study because I wanted to see what he
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: was getting detached in so far as that if you
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk psychology with him or making things turn
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: around and all that, he's your man. But if you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: want to talk about a football it was empty. And
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: we had this discussion about in jail. You've got to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: be very careful that he was becoming detached from reality
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: in other world. Well, yeah, he was like a mad
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: professor that could talk about his learned skills but couldn't
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: relate on any other level. And I said to him
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: one day, I said, what you got to do?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: He said, some bagting his head in the right place.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: I said, John, you were sixteen when you come to jail.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: We don't have time to get our heads in the
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: right place. When we're in society. You just got to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: keep going forward. And if your head's in the wrong place,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: bad luck, to be quite fair. And he killed two
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: people to be there. He killed his girlfriend and his
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: best mate because they were having sex in his bungalow.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: So he put twenty one rounds in a single shot
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: so he lost the plot. So you know, you could
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: argue we didn't even know what his sexuality was at
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: sixteen because he's not grown up. And that was some
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: of my arguments with other kids later on, was you
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: don't even know what you are. So with all this
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: going on, for me to take back what I thought
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: they were taking from me was a no. There's the line. Yeah,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: you can lock me up and you can do all this,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: but you're sure I aren't going to take my dignity
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: and you're not going to take my intensity to go
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: forward as a father, a husband, or a carpenter or
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be. But if I say yes, sir,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: three bags wall for twelve years, I'm going to be
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: like those zombies over there that can't cope, and that's
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: where they keep coming back, or they'll end up in
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: some sort of old men's home because they're no longer
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: in jail, I said, because you're just looking around and go.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: If that's ten years, I don't want it.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, come out in nineteen ninety two. How are you
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: in yourself? How are you with the world?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: How do you see the future. Well a lot happened
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: in nearly thirteen years, but somebody asked me like a krim.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: A guy said to me, what are you to do
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: when you get out? And I said, well, they're paying
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: me a dollar a day to be a carpenter in here.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll go out there and get more than a
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: dollar a day. The word rehabilitation and all these other
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: various do good words or crap. You pick up a
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: gun and you go and rob a bank because you
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: want to rob the bank. So stopping a nancy about it.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: You get out of jail, you either want to be
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: a krim or you want to be straight. You don't
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: like Yeah, blame all right, So you haven't got a trade,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: so you can be sympathetic to yourself because they are
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: you a trade. You lost your family, but you lost
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: your family because you went to jail. Don't blame society
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: for that. When it all comes to that sort of thing,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: you've got to divvy it up and go. But if
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: anyone says to me, like, you know, I'm really proud
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: that you rehabilitated and you did go, you're a wanker.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: There is no rehabilitation. I decided when I got out
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: of jail that I wasn't going to do it anymore.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Why because I didn't want to like you. If you're
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: sitting here and you're like just a normal day thing
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: and you go I might go to the football tonight.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: You have to make a decision otherwise the football will
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: start without you. I think so you and your brother.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: I've tried to avoid this discussion too much, but you
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: got to the point where you're now talking again. I
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: know you've talked over the years, but it's been difficult.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of static, a lot of noise. How
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: do you see the future with him as you now?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: I think you're getting a bit of perspective on those
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: years and the dispute you've had. How do you feel
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: the future looks with him?
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Exactly? What I said to my partner is that I'll
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: socialize with my brother as a brother if he has
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: some beneficial thing that doesn't hurt me that helps him.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Whilst I don't necessarily agree with it, I wouldn't be
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: opposed to helping him be the legend he wants to be.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: But does it interest me being that long for the ryd? No?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Does it mean that if he wants to go down
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: a particular path, Longster doesn't breach my rules? The betterments
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: of Douglas An Peter is a good idea, but not
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: at the cost that I become, to use the term fairly.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: My brother's a circus act. Do I want to become
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: a circus act to help him be a successful circus act?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: I think this is going to be a work in progress.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Peter Morgan, it's been fantastic.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: We could go on for days.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it's taken a while, but you've been
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: incredibly honest and truthful about your experiences, and I thank.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: You for it.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Not a problem that was, Peter Morgan. I'm hoping that
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: one day I'll see their story hit the big screen
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: or at least a streaming service, because the tale of
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: these identical twin robbers is one of the great Ossie
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: crime stories. If you've got a crime you'd like to report,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: please call crime Stoppers on one eight hundred, triple three,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: triple zero. Or you may not trust the police, so
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: you can always write to me at Adam shannd writer
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. This has been Adam Shan for
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Real Crime. Thanks for listening.
• 1:07:23
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• 1:07:27
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• 1:07:30
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• 1:07:33
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• 1:07:37
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• 1:07:46
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