Latest / Respec: Video Game Ramblings / EA kills BioWare, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age, GTA3 turns 25, and is Nikki in Fortnite wrong? | Respec Ramblings

Transcript

EA kills BioWare, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age, GTA3 turns 25, and is Nikki in Fortnite wrong? | Respec Ramblings · Respec: Video Game Ramblings

0:03
It's another weird, annoying, depressing week
0:08
in video game news this week. And we're back
0:11
to talk about it a little bit here on the Respect
0:14
Ramblers podcast. It's not all bad news, though.
0:16
But I think the main topic this week is a bit
0:19
of a gigabummer. And here to discuss with me
0:23
this week, Tom Ory's back, of course, as always.
0:27
James Galizio's here and Rebecca Jones is here.
0:31
How are you all doing, everyone? Good? Yeah,
0:34
I was doing pretty good. Yesterday was rough.
0:37
At least the movies are doing pretty well at
0:39
the moment. Yeah, it seems like I can't, I cannot
0:44
figure out because I'm like invested, right?
0:47
Like I really want that Street Fighter to get
0:49
a sequel. So I'm like looking at the box office
0:52
stuff and it's very, very difficult to figure
0:54
it out because some people are saying it's a
0:56
total flop. Some people are saying it's doing
0:59
really well. I think the truth is probably somewhere
1:02
in the middle, as is always the case. Crazy people
1:03
calling things total flops in a post -Digger
1:06
world. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's,
1:10
I don't know. The last I looked, it's opening
1:12
weekend, I did like 53, 54 million, and the total
1:16
budget of the film was like around 80 million.
1:19
So it was well on track to make its money back.
1:21
That being said, it feels like Street Fighter
1:24
was probably one of those movies that had like
1:26
an abnormal amount of budget put into the marketing.
1:29
Because you saw marketing for that everywhere,
1:31
at least I did. I don't know, because I saw a
1:34
lot of people saying the marketing sucked, and
1:35
I'm like, is it just that it was so heavily targeted
1:38
towards us, aging men who remember the Super
1:41
Nintendo? I think it's probably down to a lot
1:45
of people going on the internet with Fadblock
1:47
and being like, I didn't see advertising for
1:49
anything. I live in a bubble. Yeah, maybe. I
1:53
mean, I don't know. 50 Cent was on Instagram
1:55
last night saying they're working on a sequel,
1:56
so hopefully that does happen. I think he was
2:00
like an executive producer or something on top
2:03
of being Balrog. Hey, just like the games. The
2:07
sequel will be the real good one. I genuinely
2:11
believe that would be the case if it came to
2:14
pass. But anyway, there's a whole, if you missed
2:16
it, I did a whole separate podcast last week
2:19
where I just talked about my feelings about Street
2:20
Fighter like the morning after seeing it. So
2:23
you can get my raw take or there is a write -up
2:27
on the site. about it um but anyway let's let's
2:33
just jump in to the main topic um big old cut
2:37
to electronic arts now you can obviously go back
2:40
through the podcast archive or the website archive
2:42
for the stories on this but obviously ea got
2:45
taken over by a by private equity in a leveraged
2:49
buyout i think this is all important context
2:52
so a leveraged buyout what that is if you're
2:55
not like an evil corporate person is that's when
2:59
a company or a group of people or venture capital,
3:03
whatever, buys a company, but they buy the company
3:06
with money borrowed from the banks. And then
3:09
what they do is after buying, after completing
3:12
on the company, the debt that was generated in
3:15
order to buy the company is then placed on the
3:18
company. It's this really weird bit of accounting
3:21
that feels wrong and feels like it should be
3:23
bloody illegal to me, because what you're basically
3:25
doing is buying the company with the company's
3:27
own money. So anyway, so the leverage buyout
3:32
happened. Everyone, EA was a publicly traded
3:34
company. So everyone who had shares in EA got
3:36
like 200 bucks. I think it was 205, 203 bucks
3:41
a share or something like that. And the company
3:44
went private. And now, as always happens after
3:47
a company gets acquired, which some of us have
3:48
been through in person individually. After an
3:54
acquisition happens, there's a certain amount
3:55
of re -evaluation and cutting and consolidation.
3:59
The upshot of this is that EA has cut about 400
4:04
jobs right across the studio, which I know Rebecca's
4:08
got some things to say about some of those cuts.
4:10
But before we get onto that, let's just quickly
4:12
touch on the biggest cut of all, which is, to
4:16
my understanding, there were a little over 50
4:18
people left at BioWare. So what happened at Bioware
4:22
was after they finished Dragon Age, the Veil
4:24
Guard, a lot of people were taken out of Bioware
4:27
and put into other bits of the EA business. They
4:30
were put to work on Star Wars Jedi. They were
4:33
put to work on Battlefield, whatever, whatever,
4:35
whatever. And the promise was, the idea was that
4:40
when the team that remained at Bioware had stood
4:45
up the plan for what the new Mass Effect game
4:47
would be, people would come back. I think the
4:50
writer was on the wall from the start. That was
4:52
never going to happen. But now the remaining
4:54
people who were at BioWare have been let go.
4:59
The Edmonton office, which is where BioWare traditionally
5:02
was, has been closed completely. And BioWare
5:07
is finished. The new Mass Effect game is cancelled,
5:10
which was in pre -production. And the studio
5:15
is done. The brand is done. The studio is done.
5:17
It goes the way of Westwood and Pandemic and
5:20
Bullfrog and all these other companies. You're
5:25
the comic that I've been seeing on web forums
5:27
for the past decade plus. It took longer to come
5:30
true than people did. Yeah. Than people thought
5:33
it would. But yeah, and obviously these cuts
5:36
also, it's all very sad. It all sucks. It extends
5:41
beyond Bioware, which we'll talk about in just
5:43
a sec. Bioware is an incredibly special studio,
5:47
right? Yeah. I mean, the work they did in the
5:55
RPG space is iconic at this point, the Western
5:57
RPG space. Obviously, because of the circles
6:00
that I travel in, the impact on the queer gaming
6:03
community is huge just because they were one
6:06
of the first studios to really bring queer relationship
6:08
options into RPGs in a very overt way. Obviously,
6:12
not perfect representation, very much a product
6:14
of its time. um often quite reactive to conservative
6:18
elements but still it was hugely formative especially
6:22
for a lot of like queer millennial gamers and
6:24
so i'm seeing a lot of genuine grief from those
6:27
people at the closure of the studio yeah i saw
6:31
someone say the number of people that are in
6:35
especially in narrative design and stuff i think
6:37
that are now in the industry almost solely because
6:41
of of bioware because of mass fit because of
6:43
dragon age because of never winter before that
6:46
KOTOR is enormous. I don't think there's any
6:50
denying that the studio had lost a step. But
6:54
the thing that I would say is any game, the thing
6:59
that I've learned in my decades of covering games
7:01
from the outside of development is that any game
7:04
that ships is basically a miracle. Any game,
7:07
even a Nintendo game, which seems to be handed
7:10
down from the gods in some occasions, is a miracle
7:13
behind the scenes. um for a game like dragon
7:18
age the veil guard to ship is is like a water
7:22
to wine like it's unbelievable that when and
7:25
the full story of that development i dare say
7:28
now this has all happened will eventually get
7:31
told because it there are there's just it's just
7:33
wild what went on with that game and i think
7:36
that's the thing that i would say about latter
7:37
day bioware is it's very easy to go yeah well
7:40
the bioware that made the mass effect trilogy
7:43
and you know the first three dragon age games
7:47
has been gone for a while this is the bioware
7:50
that made andromeda and anthem and even this
7:55
is the body not even that really like the group
7:58
that made andromeda was long gone and stuff like
8:00
that the group that made anthem most of the leadership
8:03
and stuff was gone but um even then the bioware
8:10
spirit that persisted um and was it still existed
8:18
you know a kernel of what the doctors ray and
8:21
greg um built was still there and they almost
8:27
delivered they delivered a game like the veil
8:30
guard which is not earth shattering in the way
8:33
the previous bioware games were but for my money
8:35
is an easy solid six or seven seven or eight
8:39
out of ten um They delivered that despite the
8:44
fact they had this bad actor in the room. And
8:46
that bad actor was EA, who just did not give
8:50
a toss, really, about the role -playing genre.
8:55
So it's pretty awful. I don't know. James, you
9:02
obviously work with me on the RPG side. What
9:05
do you think it says about Western RPGs? I think
9:10
it... honestly like you said the writing was
9:14
on the wall for a bit there and like it is a
9:17
miracle that Veilguard came out but for better
9:21
or worse like you look at the true lineage of
9:25
Bioware in the modern day isn't Bioware's most
9:28
recent games it's stuff like Disco Elysium it's
9:31
stuff like Baldur's Gate 3 and to that end it's
9:36
like it's still a tragedy but You feel like the
9:42
legacy continues elsewhere, I guess, without
9:44
being callous. And I guess that is the, it's
9:46
like, Lord, do not forget, a little company called
9:50
CG Project got their start localizing Neverwinter
9:55
Nights, a Bioware game. And then when they made
9:58
their own game that was called The Witcher, they
10:01
made it in Bioware's engine. Bioware borrowed
10:04
them their engine. And when they wanted to show
10:07
the game at E3, Bioware gave them like, a little
10:10
table and a stall in the corner of their stand
10:12
at E3 one year. Like we literally would not have
10:14
CD Projekt without Bioware. EA was always the
10:22
wrong owner, I guess. I'm curious about, there's
10:25
a lot of talent out there now in the role -playing
10:27
game space available because of this. And to
10:30
be fair, this is, I don't want to say only because
10:33
it's livelihoods, but this is only 50 people.
10:36
Bioware had already shed a lot of people. And
10:39
what I'm interested in is where all those people,
10:41
both these 50 and the people beyond that, where
10:45
they all sort of end up in terms of, you do have
10:48
pushes in the RPG space, like Wizards of the
10:56
Coast is moving forward with a lot of stuff,
11:03
like Corinne Bush, who directed Dragon Age The
11:07
Veil Guard. after leaving BioWare, went to go
11:13
and work at Skeleton Key, which is a Wizard of
11:16
the Coast studio. You've obviously got CD Projekt
11:18
doing their Western studio, their US studio,
11:24
which is working on Cyberpunk 2. So hopefully,
11:27
and obviously not to forget, I mentioned Wizards.
11:29
Obviously there is a load of ex -BioWare guys
11:32
doing Exodus at Wizards as well. So hopefully
11:36
the... There is more Bioware lineage to come.
11:41
I hope the IP gets sold at some point. This is
11:46
my main hope for EA because it is abundantly
11:48
clear that they're not going to do anything with
11:50
Command & Conquer, for instance. This new Saudi
11:55
PIF -backed thing is not going to want to mess
11:59
about with an RTS that might sell 5 million units
12:01
if they're lucky. There are a lot of devs out
12:03
there you could sell that brand to who would
12:05
do amazing things with it. So I hope that gets
12:07
sold. I hope Mass Effect, Dragon Age, maybe Jade
12:10
Empire, Neverwinter, these things could all potentially
12:13
end up going somewhere. Neverwinter would be
12:15
something natural. I mean, they don't really
12:17
need it, but Neverwinter would be something natural
12:19
for Larian to pick up, for instance, potentially.
12:23
So I hope that eventually they look at selling
12:26
the IP. The one interesting wrinkle on this is
12:29
the Mass Effect TV show that was in development
12:32
at Amazon Prime Studios is still going ahead.
12:38
Amazon is committed to that. That is, as I understand
12:41
it, an adaptation of Mass Effect proper. It's
12:45
not like a story within the universe. As far
12:49
as I know, it is about Shepard. And who knows
12:53
what... That causes, because what happens if
12:55
that show comes out and is as big as Fallout?
12:57
Like, does EA suddenly go, shit, we need to find
13:00
a partner studio? Does EA go, shit, we need to
13:03
reopen Bioware? Does EA or does EA go, we should
13:06
sell this IP? So we'll see there. If it even
13:12
goes to full production, because maybe this now
13:14
affects that. But Amazon has issued a statement
13:16
saying it's still in production. Obviously, these
13:19
cuts, Bioware was only like 25 % of it, less.
13:24
So, no, not even 25, 12 .5 % of it. So, Rebecca,
13:28
you were talking a little bit about, as our Sims
13:31
correspondent, about the changes. It sounds to
13:34
me like, because there was two games in development,
13:36
right? And it sounds like now it's only one.
13:38
Is that right? So, yeah, this is not what I came
13:41
on to talk about, by the way. This has all happened
13:42
so quickly that I've had to read a lot of things
13:46
very quickly about this because... uh mostly
13:49
i've been recording another podcast and sleeping
13:51
since this all happened so forgive any errors
13:53
please um but yeah so my understanding uh based
13:56
on the news that's come out of maxis is that
13:58
really there's three games in development i guess
14:00
because the sims 4 is still under active development
14:02
although allegedly now the the big stuff has
14:05
gone and it's only like cosmetic add -ons and
14:07
smaller add -ons that are still being active
14:09
and free updates being developed for the sims
14:11
4 the sims 4 team as i understand it has not
14:13
been affected because basically they're running
14:15
at such low costs for such high The game has
14:19
performed better than its targets for 2026, even
14:22
though the new stuff isn't doing well. They've
14:23
got a 12 -year back catalogue that's still selling,
14:26
and so they seem pretty safe. The two games that
14:30
are in development, one was announced first,
14:32
the mobile spin -off Project René, which was
14:36
initially sort of announced as The Sims 5, and
14:38
it was going to be cross -platform between mobile
14:39
and PC, and then it was refocused onto mobile.
14:43
And that is the one that has been paused, is
14:46
the language that... EA are now using they've
14:48
not said cancelled they've specifically some
14:51
outlets have issued corrections saying that it
14:53
was initially reported as cancelled it's now
14:55
paused whatever that I wonder if that's a distinction
15:00
without a difference but at this point it is
15:01
accurate to say it is not officially cancelled
15:04
the other one is Project X or Project Evergreen
15:07
as it's now being called which after making a
15:10
like basically whether there's going to be a
15:12
Sims 5 or not has been put forward and then retracted
15:16
two or three times on the sort of like sub -official
15:20
level. But what we're now getting about Project
15:25
X is that it is the next PC installment. It is
15:29
targeting next September to go gold. Apparently
15:34
the team are confident that they're going to
15:35
go gold next September. It's changed scope a
15:39
couple of times. It's gone from... first it was
15:43
what was it going to be a remaster of the sims
15:44
4 rather than a new mainline entry then a full
15:47
remake of the sims 4 but still not a new mainline
15:50
entry but with the restructuring it's apparently
15:53
now a little bit more its own thing but still
15:55
not the sims 5 still more of a sims 4 and a half
15:58
apparently um the other thing to know is that
16:01
that is all now going ahead with a smaller team
16:03
that is where aside from the project renee team
16:07
Some of the cuts have been from the Project X
16:08
team as well. I was really sad this morning to
16:10
learn that Anna Huerta, who is or was one of
16:13
the senior creative directors on The Sims 4 and
16:15
had moved over to Project X, is one of the people
16:17
who's been let go. She's very influential and
16:19
a lovely person. And, you know, obviously multiple
16:22
people have been affected, but to find out it
16:24
was someone I know and know the influence they
16:26
had on The Sims 4 makes me feel obviously quite
16:31
concerned for whatever the next entry in the
16:34
franchise is going to be. And it's really odd
16:38
to think that in 10, 11 months, we're allegedly
16:41
going to have a good idea of what this game is.
16:45
Because as I say, it's sort of like been in flux
16:49
for so long. I mean, Project Rene, which it seems
16:51
like it spun off from Project Rene, was originally
16:54
announced when I was at RPS, which was back in
16:56
like 2021 or 2022. And it's like every year it's
17:00
changed scope completely. And now there have
17:03
been cuts before, more cuts. So yeah, I think
17:06
everyone's pretty... I think the main thing about
17:09
this with the Bioware situation taken into account
17:12
is Bioware felt like the line. And it was interesting
17:15
to see not whether but when EA would draw down
17:19
to that line and cut Bioware. And now with Bioware
17:22
gone, Maxis does feel like the new line, if that
17:25
makes sense. Because obviously for the people,
17:29
the groups who acquired... But EA as a whole,
17:32
I think it's the sports games that with the absolutely
17:33
untouchable properties and everything else is
17:35
kind of up for this asset strip. And Maxis is
17:39
now right on that fine line of the Sims 4 still
17:40
doing well, but the future of the franchise is
17:42
really uncertain. They're cutting the teams.
17:44
Who knows what we're going to see come up later,
17:46
to be honest. I wonder what's more vulnerable.
17:49
I wonder if Maxis is more vulnerable or is the
17:53
big vulnerability now in either they lose interest
17:58
in Star Wars. Or Disney decides to bring development
18:01
in -house again, which seems to be a cycle. Every
18:03
10 years ago, Disney, or every 15 years, Disney
18:06
goes, we're going to make games ourselves. And
18:08
then it goes badly and then they go back to licensing
18:11
format. Or, you know, someone just outbids them
18:14
for Star Wars. Which, to be fair, I can't see
18:15
happening. But like, I wonder if Star Wars went
18:18
away, what would happen with Respawn and those
18:22
lads? I wonder. But do you think they sell this?
18:27
Because obviously... like i say it started as
18:29
a remaster then sort of sims four and a half
18:32
but what do you think the model is on this do
18:34
you think they do you think they sell it do you
18:36
think it's a free -to -play thing then they sell
18:38
your cosmetics and stuff so allegedly what they
18:40
want to do is i think a free -to -play base game
18:42
was always the plan and then monetized through
18:44
a marketplace to crack down on piracy the interesting
18:47
thing about that is the sims 4 marketplace is
18:49
the only part of the sims 4 that's underperforming
18:51
at the moment it's not been popular i mean it's
18:53
it's hard to it's hard to tell because um Geeta
18:56
Jackson on Blue Sky Essay put it really well
18:58
when they said Sims 4 has been produced quite
19:02
heroically against an entirely hostile fan base,
19:05
which I thought was a good point. But the dislike
19:08
for the marketplace does seem to be one of the
19:10
more ingrained, quite genuine things that's missed
19:15
the mark with the players who aren't mostly online
19:17
talking about their impressions of the game and
19:20
are actually just playing the game. They're still
19:21
not touching the marketplace. So this push to
19:23
monetize... 4 and whatever the next game is exclusively
19:27
through marketplace monetization is we'll see
19:31
where we'll see how it goes i guess i can't i
19:33
can't see it going as they want it to when the
19:36
popularity of the sims 4 rests on expansion sold
19:39
outside of that ecosystem so yeah i my impression
19:44
is always that sims players just want to buy
19:46
expansion packs like the old days I mean, I think
19:49
that there's a level of granularity it goes down
19:51
to because they started with just expansion packs
19:53
and they added stuff packs, which is sort of
19:54
like half of that. Then game packs, which sort
19:57
of are in the middle of those two. And then kits,
19:59
which are the tiny little micro transactions
20:01
like you saw in the Sims 3 store. And there's
20:03
a general dislike for kits. There's a general
20:05
dislike for spending a fiver on 20 cosmetics.
20:09
Everything else is a little bit more... up for
20:12
up for grabs there's a bit more in between there's
20:14
often the classic conversation of should this
20:16
expansion have been a game pack and cost half
20:18
the price has it been marked up because they
20:20
wanted to double the price on it rather than
20:23
double the content the more granular you get
20:25
with your content the more argument i think you
20:26
have people saying well that wasn't worth 40
20:28
quid whereas this was and therefore resentment
20:32
towards paying like any price that is determined
20:36
by the developers i think as well so i do think
20:39
It's a sort of moving target because people hated
20:41
stuff packs when they came out in 2005, but obviously
20:45
we've had 21 years to get used to it now and
20:47
people I don't think are pushing back on that.
20:49
But they'll still push back on microtransactions,
20:51
which I think is fair enough. Yeah, I don't know.
20:55
This whole EA thing is a bit of a mess. Yeah,
21:00
to put it mildly. And I've seen people with the
21:03
Bioware thing, I saw a lot of people say, I want
21:06
to just push back. gently on one thing which
21:09
is i saw a lot of people saying and i think this
21:11
also connects to the sims as well the future
21:13
of the sims uh saying well of course they're
21:15
cutting the progressive studio now they're owned
21:18
by in part the saudi government and donald trump's
21:22
son -in -law and all the rest but what i would
21:24
say to that is i think if the bottom line is
21:27
there i do not think they actually care i actually
21:29
100 agree with you i do i understand why there's
21:32
a lot of big feelings um from like i say i'm
21:35
in a lot of queer gaming spaces and i understand
21:37
why people feel that way it is my genuine belief
21:40
though and i don't say this lightly that capitalism
21:41
comes first and no one is so dedicated to their
21:44
homophobia that they really give a shit if it's
21:46
making money the ultimate most worshipful god
21:50
of all is profit i'm afraid to say yeah genuinely
21:53
true and i just think it's like i don't think
21:56
it's an accident that it also impacts on marginalized
21:58
communities first but i think that's a you know
22:01
that's a secondary benefit if you're an awful
22:03
person. So, yeah. But I don't think it's targeted
22:08
at queer communities, I think, and, you know,
22:10
other marginalized communities. I think it's
22:11
more about the money and the only thing that
22:15
makes the insane megabucks they want, Madden
22:19
and the AFC and that sort of... Yeah, I mean,
22:22
I think the depth of these cuts is definitely
22:25
influenced by the Saudi thing, the fact that
22:27
it's 400 people. But Bioware in specific... I
22:32
think I feel quite confident in saying from my
22:36
perspective on it is that Bioware would have
22:41
gone anyway, even if the buyer had been someone
22:43
else or even if a buyer hadn't been found. I
22:46
think when they took those people away at the
22:48
end of the Veilguard development, you don't do
22:51
that if you actually truly believe in that studio.
22:55
And I think they gave the studio a chance to
22:57
sort of let them prototype, let them see what
22:59
they come up with. But I think they did that
23:03
for two reasons. One is they were trying to sell
23:04
at the time. And when you're trying to sell,
23:06
you do not make big changes to the actual studio
23:11
structure and stuff. It's like doing an extension
23:13
on your house while it's on the market. But two,
23:16
you don't, you know, you see what they're going
23:22
to do and you judge it. And they might have presented
23:25
something amazing, but I think it would have
23:27
had to have been ridiculously exceptional to
23:30
save them from the act, sadly. I mean, it's sadly
23:33
reminiscent of what happened a couple of years
23:34
ago with Arcane and Redfall, right, under Microsoft.
23:37
It's almost the exact same story. It's played
23:39
out again. And I think that's the blueprint for
23:42
sort of asset stripping, essentially, after an
23:45
acquisition, unfortunately. Yeah. One thing I
23:48
do want to say about that, like you bringing
23:50
up Redfall, is like it always kind of strikes
23:52
me how... people talk about it's like oh why
23:55
did these studios make these games as service
23:58
projects or attempt these games as a service
24:00
project when they're known for a specific type
24:02
of game and it's like well if that's the thing
24:04
that your owner is saying oh these are the type
24:07
of projects you want we want that's the type
24:09
of projects are most likely going to pit yeah
24:11
yeah absolutely and you know there's there's
24:14
a lot of i mean it was um redfall and the veil
24:15
guard both kind of had that flip -flopping between
24:18
a live service multiplayer and like a single
24:20
player experience like they both ended up messy,
24:23
unsurprisingly, because the mandate changed throughout
24:26
development. And I'm not saying that they were,
24:29
you know, nothing so targeted as being deliberately
24:31
tanked by the parent companies, but a tanking
24:34
is what's going to happen when you keep pulling
24:37
in different directions throughout games development.
24:39
Yeah, it's very sad. It's one of those things
24:44
that my feelings are slightly conflicted, not
24:47
as in between happy and sad, but part of me is
24:49
sad, but part of me is just like... All this
24:52
was inevitable. Anyway, as bad as it sounds,
24:55
it's a terrible analogy, but it's like when a
24:58
really, really old relative dies who's been suffering
25:01
and in horrible and like not been in, you know,
25:03
been in dire straits for ages. It feels a little
25:07
like that to me where I think, I guess what I'm
25:09
saying is I had made my peace with the fact that
25:11
I was unlikely to play another Bioware game,
25:14
a new Bioware game. Yeah. I'd made my peace on
25:18
that. after the veil guard released i did a blue
25:22
sky thread where i said i the moment when i thought
25:26
to myself ah bioware's finished was at the veil
25:30
guard preview event which was at which was at
25:34
ea's office in um in redwood shores and they
25:40
had laid on this event and ea's got a huge sports
25:43
complex and gym as you would expect absolutely
25:45
massive it's like outside they've got a half
25:49
size NFL field and they've got a giant indoor
25:55
football and they've got a basketball court and
25:59
they've taken the basketball courts and like
26:01
removed the bleachers and all that sort of stuff.
26:03
And they had filled it with all the machines
26:06
and stuff and they dressed it all in Dragon Age
26:08
and lit it up all nice. It was a really lovely
26:10
looking preview of it. But there was this whole
26:12
thing where every single person from EA there,
26:18
referred to it as an action adventure game um
26:22
and it was on all like and part of this is that
26:25
was how EA divided its units there's the sports
26:27
unit and there was the action adventure unit
26:29
and Bioware and Dragon Age happened to fall into
26:32
the action adventure unit but um it fell on more
26:37
than that Like whenever you spoke to someone
26:39
from EA, they didn't want to use the word RPG
26:42
to describe the Veil Guard. It's like it was
26:44
a dirty word. And I think they decided that RPGs
26:47
were too nerdy and too niche, at least at the
26:49
level that they were doing them. They didn't
26:51
think they could deliver a Witcher or an Elder
26:53
Scrolls and therefore the RPG world was not a
26:57
world they wanted to play in. So they were like
26:58
playing at calling it an action adventure game.
27:01
Meanwhile, you spoke to people at Bioware and
27:03
they were really proud of their action, their
27:04
RPG chops. You could sense this difference in
27:10
this mismatch in between the way the Bioware
27:12
people spoke and the way the EA people spoke.
27:14
And I remember thinking, if this is EA's attitude,
27:16
what are they even doing with this studio? And,
27:19
you know, fast forward a few years and here we
27:21
are. Indeed. Yeah. Yes. In slightly happier RPG
27:29
related news, though. Slightly happier, but for
27:33
different reasons. Yeah. Well, just, you know,
27:35
it's just, it's just. Cyberpunk 2077 still rages
27:39
on. There is another new patch. And this is obviously
27:43
to celebrate the release of Edgerunners. Any
27:45
new cars? No, I don't know. James is asking that
27:48
because there was a running joke on RPGsite for
27:50
a long time where we had a car list guide on
27:54
RPGsite for Cyberpunk. And the poor person who
27:58
was in charge of updating that page, you know,
28:00
it has been the job that hasn't died for them
28:04
because... They keep going, this is the last
28:06
update, and then adding another thing and another
28:09
thing. I knew, someone at Bioware, someone at
28:13
CD Projekt had told me there was going to be
28:15
an update for Edgerunners, but I thought, oh,
28:18
they'll just dump, they'll just dump a t -shirt
28:21
in the game, maybe a weapon or whatever. But
28:24
no, they've got like a whole new proper side
28:27
quest. They've got... a whole new gear set based
28:31
on one of the characters from Edge Runners 2.
28:33
They've got a new radio station, which has the
28:35
music that's featured in Edge Runners 2 on it.
28:40
But then they've also added new clothing, like
28:43
in various different brands. So like all the
28:45
different sort of styles, tentpole styles, there's
28:49
new clothing for all of them. They've added like
28:52
a new, the tarot cards that you scan around the
28:55
world. They've added a whole new set of tarot
28:56
cards that you can scan. Cool. Are they well
28:58
into the Minor Arcana by now? Yes. Yeah, yeah,
29:01
yeah. Wow, awesome. That's genuinely really cool.
29:03
Yeah. So they've added a whole new bunch of those.
29:06
They've got better cross -platform mod support
29:09
so you can get your mods on PlayStation and Xbox.
29:14
And yeah, another new side quests that aren't
29:18
related to Edgerunners. And the big one, which
29:21
I just think is rad, they've rejigged the skill
29:23
tree a little bit and they've put a dual wielding.
29:27
skill into the cool perk tree that's actually
29:30
got four sub perks as well so you can now build
29:33
your wielding pistol build so you can do your
29:36
jackie wells because jackie your world's all
29:39
for the prologue um and yeah so you've got a
29:44
whole new play style being added um well that's
29:48
really that's really chunky for an update this
29:50
late in the day it's free and you know and and
29:54
god bless them no one does this like that like
29:57
keeps these games alive. And I think other publishers
29:59
who go, how does CD Projekt get such huge legs
30:02
on their games? This is the answer. That's awesome.
30:06
I think Ubisoft keeps their games alive. I think
30:09
Ubisoft needs... That is true. Ubisoft are not
30:12
also a great company at points, but they do a
30:14
lot for their games, keeping them running for
30:16
a lot. For Honor is still getting regular updates,
30:19
like proper updates. I forgot that game existed.
30:24
But yeah, you are right. Ubisoft does a pretty
30:26
good job, but a lot of publishers don't. It's
30:29
a bit, something I really enjoy about CD Projekt,
30:32
and I remember we talked about this when they
30:34
did Phantom Liberty, and they were like, and
30:36
I did an interview for RPG, I think, or it might
30:39
have been VG. And they were like, this is an
30:43
expansion. It's not a DLC. They were like, we
30:46
don't do DLC. They were like, DLC is small and
30:50
pathetic. and tiny and doesn't make that much
30:53
difference they were like we do expansions and
30:56
we will sell you expansions and we do patches
30:59
that's it and this speaks to that where they've
31:02
you know but that's the irony like you know the
31:04
stuff they've added here another company would
31:06
have charged 10 bucks for it i mean look at a
31:10
elden ring when it dropped on switch to the minor
31:13
changes they added to the switch to version they
31:16
charged like five bucks to get those uh changes
31:20
on other platforms well yeah for for two for
31:23
two classes they actually changed a surprising
31:26
amount of stuff in the overworld like there was
31:28
actually some stuff that changed that you would
31:31
not have expected but is that added with the
31:34
dlc though was that patch because when you look
31:36
at like the dlc on steam it was added to dlc
31:38
but when you look at the dlc the dlc just says
31:41
new classes torrent skins new armor it doesn't
31:43
say anything about the new yeah it was just It
31:46
was changes that just weren't really talked about.
31:49
Well, it's got mostly negative reviews. So it
31:54
speaks to... But yeah, I mean, it's lovely to
31:57
see CD Projekt doing this. I'm now extremely
32:00
hopeful to see... I want an expansion to Cyberpunk
32:09
2077 in the run -up to Cyberpunk 2, the same
32:12
as they're doing with Witcher. That's what I
32:13
really want now. So I hope that is a thing that
32:18
happens. I just wanted to very quickly touch
32:21
on, I haven't had a chance to review it. I might
32:24
try and come back to it towards the end of the
32:27
year, but I played a fair amount of Final Fantasy
32:29
Resonance, which is the new, have you not? But
32:33
this is the new HD 2D Final Fantasy game, quote
32:37
unquote new, because what they've done here is
32:39
they had a gacha game called Final Fantasy Brave
32:41
Exvius. And they basically, after that game closed
32:44
service. They dismantled it and went, what can
32:47
we do with all these assets? So it's definitively
32:51
not a port of the mobile game. It is not that
32:54
because it is so materially different. But it
32:57
does. It's like a remake, if anything. Yeah,
33:00
it shares the story. They've reused all the graphics
33:03
and all that sort of stuff. They didn't reuse
33:06
all the graphics. The graphics are actually pretty
33:08
majorly different. Well, they've been overhauled,
33:10
but every sprite they used in... Well, not every
33:13
sprite, but all the sprites they built for Brave
33:15
Exvius are in there, right? Most of the spell
33:19
animations and stuff like that they built for
33:20
Brave Exvius are in there. The animations they
33:23
built. But they did then build a new world, a
33:25
traditional Final Fantasy game with the overworld
33:26
and all that sort of stuff. Whole new combat
33:28
system. There's a great review up on RPG site
33:32
by Hayes. There's also, as we go into launch,
33:37
a lot of other content going up on RPGs. If you
33:39
do choose to play it in the world of guides and
33:41
stuff like that. But I would just sum up my impressions
33:44
for now when I haven't finished the game. I would
33:47
sum it up as if you are the sort of RPG player
33:51
who goes in specifically for story, narrative,
33:53
sort of the sweeping tale, you will probably
33:56
enjoy this less. If you like and adjust your
33:59
expectations accordingly, it's probably more
34:01
like a 6 or 7 out of 10. If you like... crunchy
34:05
meaty RPG mechanics and really enjoy the battles
34:08
and really enjoy seeing the numbers get really
34:10
big and manipulating the systems to make that
34:13
happen you will enjoy this a hell of a lot more
34:17
so yeah I highly recommend reading the RPG site
34:21
review and I'll try and write something here
34:24
on Respec at some point but I wanted to quickly
34:25
touch on that because that's out this week also
34:29
announced this week Rebecca you wanted to talk
34:32
about the addition I mean, Fortnite obviously
34:36
is always all about cultural icons. And so you
34:41
have a character from a movie that becomes a
34:44
meme and now they're in Fortnite. Tell us about
34:46
it. Yeah, so this week, Fortnite announced a
34:50
lot of their Halloween themed content lineup
34:53
and the one that's really sparked a lot of discussion.
34:56
um in the cycles i travel in anyway is the inclusion
34:59
of nikki from the movie obsession which is one
35:02
of the big horror films of the year um directed
35:06
by curry barker who's quite a well -known youtube
35:08
content creator it's like there's a whole suite
35:10
of youtube -led horror films indie horror films
35:13
this year that did really well obsession i think
35:15
being like first among them really um so this
35:20
is proven controversial to say to say the least
35:23
um because I know Tom hasn't seen this one, so
35:27
I'm trying not to be too spoilery because it
35:28
is a good film. I recommend it specifically to
35:30
Tom, who loves a good horror film. But the sort
35:34
of the top line concept of it is that the, I
35:38
would say the protagonist, but also the villain
35:40
of the film is given the opportunity to make
35:42
one wish that comes true through like magical
35:46
means. And he wishes for his female best friend
35:49
who he's secretly got a crush on, but doesn't
35:52
dare approach about it. to love him more than
35:55
anything in the world consequences occur um i
35:59
think it's fair to say um but obviously there's
36:03
like a the theme of this film being called obsession
36:05
it's about female autonomy and the fact that
36:08
a lot of the way you know it has real world applications
36:11
despite being a story about magic it's about
36:14
autonomy being taken away from women being forced
36:16
to sort of like present in a way that men have
36:19
chosen for them um and It doesn't go well for
36:23
poor Nikki, to say the least. She's clearly not
36:27
very happy about the whole situation. It's quite
36:29
harrowing. And so when it was first, because
36:33
it was announced, the Fortnite collab was announced
36:36
a little while back as two accessories and an
36:40
emote, I think. It wasn't known that there was
36:42
going to be the skin included until this week.
36:45
which is the skin of Nikki in the outfit that
36:48
she wears in a certain scene, which is specifically
36:51
and deliberately designed to be the outfit that
36:52
a man would force his girlfriend to wear if she
36:56
had no choice in the matter. And it's designed
36:59
to be the sort of like ludicrously overdone male
37:02
gaze, like very short shorts and a sort of like
37:05
tiger print vest top. And it's not really about
37:08
what the outfit is. It's about what it represents.
37:10
Like it's not ludicrous to see someone wearing
37:12
that, but the thought behind it. It's not that
37:16
it missed the point. Exactly. It's a huge...
37:20
Okay, I've got to say, people are very annoyed
37:22
about this, and I understand why they're very
37:23
annoyed about this, but my feelings about it
37:25
were a bit more like... So there's this YouTuber
37:27
that I like called Blake Jennings, and he does
37:30
really, really good documentaries on video game
37:32
fandom controversies. And when he does these,
37:35
he has this... The Political Compass Rose, if
37:38
you've ever seen it, which is the four -way diagram,
37:42
you know what I mean? And he puts... On one axis,
37:44
it's like the people who made this decision are
37:46
going to heaven or hell after they die. And on
37:48
another axis, he puts if it's deadly serious
37:51
or if it's camp. And honestly, for me, this is
37:53
camp hell. This is like you are awful for doing
37:57
this in freaking Fortnite. But there is something
38:00
quite camp about missing the point. That is a
38:02
dark humor. But missing the point that hard to
38:05
make a freaking Fortnite skin is almost... it's
38:10
almost art in itself in a way it's just so it
38:15
is like if dead by daylight had done this for
38:17
example i would be like they're probably going
38:18
somewhere with this but with fortnight i'm like
38:22
also the crossover between the target audience
38:25
of fortnight and the target audience obsession
38:27
it's really just it's just like it's post media
38:32
literacy is what's happening it's like This is
38:34
one of the biggest, as you say, memetic icons
38:36
of the year. We're Fortnite, ergo we put this
38:39
in Fortnite. I agree with you, but also it reminds
38:44
me of something that I heard regarding, like,
38:48
this is going to be a tangent, but I swear that
38:52
there is actually something tying this together.
38:56
The people at Mojang, when they were talking
38:58
about Minecraft Dungeons 2, they said that they
39:00
deliberately... aged up the complexity of the
39:04
game because the target audience that would have
39:06
played minecraft dungeons 1 they were kids now
39:10
they'd be like 15 or 16 i'd imagine that fortnite
39:14
and epic is going through a similar deal where
39:16
back when fortnite battle royale started when
39:19
you had like nine or ten year olds playing they're
39:21
gonna be adults now yeah so they're shifting
39:23
the shifting accordingly i would not be shocked
39:26
if that's a big thing i just i just looked this
39:28
up by the way The average age of a Fortnite player,
39:31
this has shocked me, allegedly, is between 24
39:34
and 28 years old. I mean, that really scans with
39:38
what James is saying, I guess. Although then
39:40
it says roughly 62 .7 % of players are age 18
39:44
to 24. I think there's also a lot of underreporting
39:47
where people are kids playing on adult accounts
39:50
and being like, I'm a kid, but I'm not saying
39:52
I'm a kid. That's very true. I wonder also, is
39:56
there an element of this of... the people that
39:59
this is appealing to on fortnight haven't actually
40:02
seen the movie they've just seen the meme of
40:04
the cafe no no no scene and things like that
40:07
and and that's what this is to them i think quite
40:10
possibly i mean it's it's sort of a question
40:13
of of why just the what you could just have not
40:16
done this i mean i understand why people who
40:18
have seen the movie regardless of how they feel
40:20
about the movie are like this is not an appropriate
40:22
use of any of this imagery and if you get too
40:25
deep into the weeds of the themes then it's it's
40:27
quite of some quite serious stuff. But I just
40:32
don't think Fortnite ever goes that deep, to
40:34
be honest. We're maybe just seeing the cutting
40:37
edge of where that suddenly becomes an actual
40:40
problem you can leverage some real media criticism
40:42
against. Well, you get all this. It's like bloody
40:44
putting Sonic in and poor old... Well, Sonic
40:49
can have a gun because this Sonic is a robot.
40:51
Yeah, Tezuka -san going, it's okay for this Sonic
40:53
to use a gun because it isn't actually the real
40:55
Sonic. It's a robot. Oh my goodness. And it just
40:57
looks like normal Sonic. And I'm like, you do
40:59
realize that you have a robot Sonic in your series
41:02
anyway. You could have just had Metal Sonic.
41:04
But hey -ho. What I will say at the very least
41:07
is... You could have just put in Shadow. He uses
41:10
guns all the time. Yeah, exactly. What I will
41:13
say is at least Indy Navarette, who plays Nicky,
41:17
She's a big gamer. Yes. And she does seem to
41:20
be extremely excited about it. Exactly. I do
41:25
want to touch on that because also people are
41:27
kind of inclined to infantilize the actors involved.
41:30
I'm like, no, fair enough. She wants the Fortnite
41:31
bag. She should have the Fortnite bag and the
41:34
shot at the Oscar nomination. I don't see why
41:35
she shouldn't have both. I also hope she gets
41:38
paid because I have to imagine this is such a
41:41
small movie that there weren't like, you know,
41:44
when you sign up. to be an Avenger, you're signing
41:47
a deal that says Disney can take your face and
41:49
do what they want with it when you're in that
41:51
costume. But I have to imagine that wasn't the
41:54
deal here. So I hope she's been paid. I remember
41:56
back when Obsession was really blowing up, there
41:58
was some noise about how the main creatives around
42:05
the movie, because nobody expected it to blow
42:08
up like it did. A24 certainly didn't. It does
42:12
sound like they didn't necessarily get a great
42:15
deal. It's going to be one of those cases, I
42:20
think. But that was on the movie. But that was
42:22
on the movie, right? So yeah, maybe they didn't
42:24
get back end on the movie. But in terms of selling
42:27
merch or putting her face into a video game,
42:31
hopefully that wasn't in her contract for the
42:34
movie where she got paid very little and she's
42:36
therefore been paid for this. I hope so. But
42:39
she seems happy anyway. I hope so too, but I
42:40
don't necessarily think that. If anything, the
42:43
fact that it was so low -key in the first place,
42:45
I don't think they would have expected there
42:48
to be merch or anything like that. So, I don't
42:50
know. Yes. Not the biggest controversy of the
42:55
week, although it arguably was when I signed
42:57
on to do this episode of the podcast. Yes, yes.
43:03
Yeah, it'll be, I mean, that's out now, right?
43:05
So if you wish to play as this character. Is
43:07
it today or was it yesterday? By the time people
43:11
hear this, which will be another day, it sounds
43:14
like that is a... We'll see. I'm sure the server
43:19
is going to be full of all Nicky servers or something.
43:25
Just next to Peter Griffin. Why not? The dream
43:29
team. Well, it's Ready Player One, isn't it now,
43:32
right? It really is, yeah. Do your kids play
43:35
it, Tom? My son does, yeah. He's got some Simpsons
43:41
socks now. He's never seen The Simpsons, but
43:44
he wanted them because The Simpsons are in Fortnite,
43:47
right? There's just stuff. They're just imagery.
43:53
There's no context to them anymore, these things,
43:56
these characters, these creations. They're just
43:57
things in a game. There's nothing to them anymore
44:01
for lots of people that play it because he's
44:04
not seen, I think he's seen a single episode
44:05
of The Simpsons. He's never seen... family guy
44:08
i mean not that it's the greatest cultural thing
44:11
ever but it had a moment where it it was a thing
44:14
for people um and like things like like alien
44:17
like the xenomorphs in it i mean he's not seen
44:19
that but there's a period where he's running
44:21
around as a as an alien and stuff it's just it's
44:24
just a a weird world of just they just i don't
44:28
think he cares about what they are it just doesn't
44:30
look cool what's interesting as well when you
44:32
bring that up is like the sort of moral neutrality
44:35
it applies because what i've seen a lot of criticism
44:37
about the obsession thing being is that like,
44:39
it's playing her as the villain because she's
44:41
like the scary Halloween icon. But it's like,
44:43
these are all characters you play as in Fortnite.
44:44
You are encouraged to identify with them as your
44:47
protagonist. And so it's like, but I don't think
44:51
it's like, oh, you know, you can argue whether
44:52
it's like, oh, Nikki is the victim versus she's
44:55
the scary monster as portrayed on the screen.
44:57
But ultimately, it's just completely like, again,
45:00
Fortnite doesn't go that deep. And that's kind
45:03
of the issue we see when you've got the Xenomorph
45:04
and Homer Simpson. treated as broadly equivalent
45:07
i'm gonna need the just just a random thought
45:12
i'm gonna need the patrons to like go through
45:14
both this and assuredly the after hours and like
45:17
determine whether or not like the two run times
45:19
this week is more movies or video games because
45:22
i'm sensing something we like a movie we like
45:27
a movie especially a video game related movie
45:29
um but yeah so let's quickly move on just to
45:34
the retrospective for this week, because there's
45:36
one particular one that I think we have to discuss
45:38
in depth. But before we get to that one, we'll
45:42
say that one for last. Splinter Cell Double Agent
45:45
is 20 years old. I thought that had a different
45:48
game on 360 to the other platforms, right? I
45:51
think. Is that the one? So is that the one with
45:55
the scene in the urinal? I can't remember. Because
45:59
there was one, it was starting in a prison, did
46:01
it? Is that Double Agent? And I'm sure the 360
46:04
game looked amazing at the time, but it was a
46:07
completely different game to the Xbox one, which
46:09
felt a bit more like chaos theory. Yeah, I think
46:14
the one that I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of
46:16
there's one where he's like smashing a guy's
46:19
face in a toilet at the start. And I think that's
46:21
conviction. Yeah. Which means I don't remember
46:25
this one at all. It was like, it was okay, I
46:29
think. But I think that the consensus is that
46:31
the... last gen one was a better game than the
46:35
more flashy 360 version sort of crazy that we're
46:39
now like 13 years from our last Splinter Cell
46:41
game maybe if Metal Gear comes back which I think
46:47
is probably something that is going to happen
46:48
eventually it will create a world where Splinter
46:51
Cell is also desirable again yeah so Splinter
46:55
Cell Conviction Civ 6 is already 10 which feels
46:59
insane to me I suppose Civ 7 is out, right? So
47:04
I don't know where 6 falls on my Civ ranking.
47:12
Is Civ 5 still like the gold standard in people's
47:15
eyes? I feel like probably. I think a lot of
47:17
people would say 4 and I think some people would
47:19
say 3. My partner would say 2. My partner refuses
47:22
to move on from 2. Wow. That's dedication. I
47:26
can't go that far back. I think we need to pull
47:27
a younger audience. I think it's more 4 for me.
47:32
but I did six is the one where five genuinely
47:35
launched a bit of a mess and sort of stayed a
47:37
bit of a mess. Six is the one that gives me hope
47:39
for seven because six launched ropey and by the
47:43
end, it was genuinely incredible. Um, highly
47:47
recommend it. You know, black Friday, steam sale
47:50
and stuff will be coming up. It'll probably be
47:52
like three pounds for the complete edition. It's,
47:55
it's really, really good. Um, uh, virtual tennis
48:00
2 25 years old I just want to say I miss when
48:03
Saga made sports games Tom's nodding that was
48:05
an aggressive nod that was a really approving
48:08
nod when was the last time they released a sports
48:10
game that wasn't Sonic the Hedgehog related was
48:12
it virtual tennis 4 on the yeah well it was that
48:17
era right they went through a brief era of redoing
48:21
virtual tennis games Tom you were really really
48:23
nodding do you have some I like virtual tennis
48:25
yeah I mean just fond memories of playing that
48:29
a lot on the Dreamcast I really like Virtua Soccer
48:32
3 as well that's another one that I really I
48:34
never got into Virtua Soccer I remember playing
48:37
it in the arcade once and like it plays so differently
48:42
to most other football games that I just couldn't
48:45
get on with it it's very much like a unique experience
48:48
just for like how they built it but yeah I mean
48:51
Virtua Tennis I could if I Played that now, probably
48:54
sink hours into it. Just obviously it helps when
48:57
you had a twin who also is into games. You could
48:59
just play sports games for hours. But yeah. No,
49:03
I remember playing a lot of virtual tennis and
49:06
a lot of virtual soccer in an arcade in like
49:09
Mallorca when I was on holiday one time. And
49:11
then, you know, it was like 20 cents a go or
49:14
whatever. Or euros. Well, no, euros are cents.
49:18
I don't know. Maybe it wasn't even euros then.
49:20
I don't remember. What else? Marvel Ultimate
49:26
Alliance, 20 years old, which a lot of people
49:28
have really strong memories of that. It's so
49:31
crazy to me that Ultimate Alliance 3 is still
49:35
a Nintendo exclusive. Yeah. That'd be exactly
49:39
the sort of game that would probably benefit
49:40
from a Switch 2 edition, from how I remember
49:42
it running. Yeah, it's quite ripe here on Switch.
49:43
What I remember is people liked Ultimate Alliance
49:46
3. It was just like, with the asterisk that was
49:49
like, man, I wish it wasn't on the Switch. Yeah.
49:52
Yeah, they should do a Switch 2 version of that.
49:57
Phantasy Star Universe, also 20 years old. It's
50:00
okay. It's okay. I've just realized the list
50:04
has a big omission on it. It's the Tomb Raider
50:06
30th anniversary this weekend. Is it? This weekend?
50:10
I mean, because it launched across so many different
50:13
platforms in different regions on different dates,
50:15
it's hard to pin down. But this weekend is the
50:17
Sega Saturn anniversary. Well, so that's what
50:20
I was going to ask. So actually, did it launch?
50:21
Because I saw that and I assumed, which shows
50:25
the folly in making assumptions, that the Saturn
50:28
was the second release. Well, here's the... Assuming
50:32
Wikipedia has its dates correct. And also because
50:34
I live quite near to Derby where the studio was
50:38
based. There's a lot of stuff going on around
50:41
town at the moment. So the original release in
50:43
Europe for the Sega Saturn was the 24th of October
50:46
1996. And then it kind of trickled through November
50:48
for other consoles and platforms in other regions.
50:51
I can't believe it came to PlayStation a month
50:54
later. I mean, that was the 90s. Everything just
50:57
kind of released like because you didn't have
50:58
the internet. You didn't have FOMO from your
51:00
friends in a different country. It's released
51:03
kind of arbitrarily, yeah. Things staggered a
51:06
lot and you don't really see that increasingly
51:08
we're getting. No one had a Saturn, so no one
51:10
knew. That's a really good point. Technically,
51:13
though. Technically. It's just sort of, has a
51:16
lunch ever been so stolen of like, it was a Saturn
51:19
game first. It was a Saturn exclusive for like
51:22
a month. It's the quintessential PlayStation
51:24
game. Absolutely. I'm a big, obviously a big
51:27
Team Raider fan and it's a local game for me.
51:29
So between it being. iconic female protagonist
51:32
and a game that's like very tied up in my cultural
51:35
heritage if i can call it that yeah i had to
51:38
interject and be like technically tomb raider's
51:40
30 this week although in a very real way not
51:42
until next month for most people so mad to link
51:46
back to because saying the word tomb raider has
51:48
reminded me something i thought of earlier they
51:50
didn't say when we were discussing about what
51:52
kids know people from in fortnite When I was
51:55
at the Indiana Jones and the Great Circle preview
51:57
event, there was a younger chap who was a TikToker.
52:01
And he said to me, I only know this character
52:05
from Fortnite. Indiana Jones. Harrison Ford.
52:10
Indiana Jones. How? Anyway. Well, I suppose the
52:15
movies are 40 years old, right? But nevertheless.
52:17
They still exist. They're still everywhere. Have
52:19
you ever experienced Christmas Day? Like, just
52:23
put the TV on. It's there. This is the problem
52:25
with Bond as well. It's like with 007 First Light,
52:28
I think it was a challenge for them. There's
52:29
a lot of kids who just don't know who James Bond
52:31
is, which was not the case for me growing up.
52:34
It was on ITV every Sunday and you didn't have
52:37
Netflix. So you watched the spot. That is true.
52:39
It's streaming, isn't it? You get a choice now
52:42
what you watch every single day. This morning,
52:45
I sent my daughter breakfast and she said, can
52:49
I have my tablet on while I watch breakfast?
52:50
I was like, yes. I'll give her a tablet. And
52:53
I was like, what do you want on? And she's only
52:55
young, but she went like, I'll decide myself
52:58
and just took the tablet off me and marched off.
53:00
And I was like, bloody hell. And I still don't
53:04
know what she watched. Some CBBC thing. Last
53:08
couple, Kirby's Return to Dreamland. I don't
53:11
remember this one at all. That was the Wii one.
53:13
It got a Switch remaster with new stuff a couple
53:18
of years back. It's a fine Kirby game. I feel
53:22
like I played it. After I played Star Allies,
53:25
and I remember being very whelmed by Star Allies,
53:28
and hearing people say, oh, Return to Dreamland
53:31
was like Return to Form for Kirby, and I played
53:33
it, and it's like, not really. I don't think,
53:35
personally, I don't think there's been a really
53:37
good 3D Kirby game at all. There's been okay
53:41
ones, but... There's only been one 3D, like,
53:43
proper 3D Kirby game. That new one was good.
53:45
I suppose. Dreamland was really, really good.
53:48
It was like, I don't know, didn't light my world
53:50
on fire. This new one, though... i don't know
53:53
a bit like donkey kong a new nintendo 3d platformer
53:57
in a post odyssey world where they've learned
54:00
and ingested all the odyssey lessons is very
54:02
interesting to me um i mean that was forgotten
54:05
land it was like far enough away from i don't
54:07
know i think probably it was too early for those
54:10
lessons to truly be even the trailer of that
54:13
one when i had the new one when i saw it i was
54:14
like i'm getting um post -Odyssey vibes. Anyway,
54:18
Battlefield 3, 15 years old. I mainly remember
54:21
this had an amazing launch trailer and I remember
54:23
it had that bloke in it who was Aaron Pearce
54:26
in 24. Is it the Bonnie Tyler one? Is this the
54:29
Bonnie Tyler one? Is it the Bonnie Tyler one?
54:31
What a great opening to a video game if that's
54:33
right. So they crash, right? Yeah. Yeah, it is.
54:40
It is. It is. No, no. The Bonnie Tyler one is
54:45
Battlefield 4. I love how, you know, when I Googled
54:48
there, Bonnie Tyler, Battlefield. It's just funny.
54:54
The way I figured out what it was, was a tweet
54:57
that said as follows from the sad events earlier
55:00
this year. Bonnie Tyler, the singer famed for
55:03
Total Eclipse of the Heart, the song featured
55:05
in the dramatic opening sequence of the Battlefield
55:07
floor single player campaign, has died aged 75.
55:14
Is that a Game Awards tweet? It's not, you know.
55:18
Still funny. There was an account that did that,
55:22
right? There was a parody account. And then last,
55:26
but certainly not least, the one we thought we
55:28
might want to talk about for a few minutes. Grand
55:30
Theft Auto 3 is 25 years old, which feels so
55:35
appropriate. And it's still probably, on balance,
55:42
my favourite of the... ps2 ones i think where
55:47
i was when they played this i don't my interest
55:51
i think that i remember this i remember not loving
55:56
three like i couldn't get into it the controls
55:58
just felt janky and awkward i did it wasn't really
56:01
until sandra sandra was the game that i got a
56:04
bit caught up in the hype i remember not being
56:06
i'm not bothered about this i didn't like the
56:08
other two particularly in terms of how they played
56:09
and it was just everywhere i remember going to
56:12
asda in brighton on launch day because i was
56:15
at uni and we just bought it and played it for
56:18
like weeks endlessly in our shared house but
56:21
yeah three obviously like it it's that infamous
56:24
is it six out of ten in edge was that is that
56:26
yes three yes it did yes that's my so that's
56:30
that's 25 years old because this was close to
56:33
launch and that was the art that i mean obviously
56:36
audio listeners can't see this but i'm holding
56:38
up the box art for the european version that
56:40
was the art obviously the the the um they couldn't
56:44
use in America because they were worried about
56:46
the violence. They changed it last minute because
56:49
of 9 -11. Because it's like got explosions and
56:52
guns and stuff on the front. So in the US, so
56:54
that was how you ended up with the box art that
56:56
was like divided. That is the famous GTA thing.
56:59
They're really iconic. Wow. I didn't know that.
57:02
And where's my coffee? So that's how you end
57:04
up with that. And you will notice like these
57:09
always just have, they sometimes have someone
57:10
holding a gun. But the GTA 3 version of it, you
57:15
can't, they've cropped all the guns out. So it's
57:17
like, it's all from this. He literally crops
57:20
it out of this, the artist who did it. So it's
57:21
like, you have eight ball with his assault rifle,
57:23
but on the box art, he's cropped in such a way
57:26
where the assault rifle isn't visible because
57:28
they had a post 9 -11 panic and they were like,
57:31
we need to take all the violent stuff off the
57:33
cover. That's really interesting. Fascinating
57:37
how that led to the... Like you said, the iconic
57:40
way of doing the GTA box art now because you
57:42
can't think of GTA without a box art like that.
57:45
The flip side is I love that GTA. I'm going to
57:49
make it the cover art maybe of the podcast or
57:52
maybe not because I feel like we've got to pay
57:54
respects to Bioware. But like the, I'll put a
57:57
link to it in the podcast notes, but that key
57:59
art where it's sort of in the style of like the
58:02
old James Bond movie posters or like the old
58:05
Star Wars movie poster hand -drawn ones. It's
58:12
something quite special. Also, something I love
58:15
about those GTA covers while we're at it is I'm
58:17
pretty sure I'm right in saying this. The top
58:20
left of every game, this goes back to GTA 3,
58:24
is always a helicopter. Helicopter, helicopter,
58:28
helicopter. Helicopter, helicopter. What's that
58:31
mean? I'm showing my age there. Because I don't
58:34
know what that meme actually is. I just know
58:36
that sometimes I hear children shout it. Anyway,
58:41
but yeah, the thing I love about GTA 3, and the
58:46
plan is after this podcast, so by the time people
58:47
hear this, it'll be up on the site. I'm going
58:49
to write something about it. But I love the atmosphere.
58:53
And it's not a deliberate atmosphere. It's because
58:56
of the tech. You couldn't feel the world very
58:59
much. So it's always eerie and slightly creepy.
59:06
It's like the empty and it feels like this weird,
59:10
ethereal, real, but unreal place. And I love
59:13
that about it. Also, can we talk about this?
59:15
I'm holding up the original manual. What have
59:18
we lost? We used to be a real country. It's like,
59:21
look how beautiful this is. Like, like screenshot
59:24
stuff, but then, and like how to play. Yeah,
59:26
you're fine. But then you get a few pages in
59:28
and it's like, here's like in universe descriptions
59:31
of all the boroughs. And here's, you know. I
59:35
distinctly remember when I picked up GTA Chinatown
59:39
Wars, not on the DS, on the PSP, and it had a
59:42
big manual for it. And then it also came with
59:45
like a fold -out map for the game world. Look,
59:48
that's a description of all the gangs and like
59:51
logos for the gangs that I didn't even know were
59:54
a thing in the game. And like classified fake
59:59
classified ads that tell you about all the side
1:00:01
quests. These are... These are the things that
1:00:05
we've lost. What a shame. And actually, you said
1:00:08
about a fold -out map. Is this a fold -out map?
1:00:10
We will find out. There she is. Yeah, I miss
1:00:16
those. We used to be a society. Right. Won't
1:00:21
be getting one of those with GTA 6, will you?
1:00:26
And even a free paid postage to send back to
1:00:34
take two. that asks you your name, your address,
1:00:37
your postcode. Where did you purchase this game?
1:00:41
They still do those for like every physical game
1:00:45
you buy in Japan. They still do that. Yeah, Japan's
1:00:47
different. But where did you buy this game? Jakarta?
1:00:50
HMV? Woolworths? Jungle .com? Which I've never
1:00:56
heard of in my life. Was that like... I used
1:00:58
Jungle .com. I remember it. Dixon's PC World?
1:01:02
Virgin Hour Price? Gameplay .com. I never use
1:01:06
them either. Game or electronics boutique. WH
1:01:11
Smiths. Oh, why did you purchase this game? Play
1:01:16
the demo. Recommendation. Like the packaging.
1:01:18
Radio, TV, commercial. Article in the magazine.
1:01:20
Advert in a magazine. Install display. Other.
1:01:23
What magazines do you read? PlayStation World.
1:01:28
Arcade. Loaded. Adrenaline. God, truly. That's
1:01:34
blast from the past. DC UK, wow. FHM, GQ, Sky,
1:01:40
PC Gamer, Stuff, and Heat. So if I'm right, the
1:01:44
only ones on this list that still exist is GQ,
1:01:47
PC Gamer, Heat? Stuff's gone, right? I have no
1:01:52
idea. FHM, is that gone? Did that go in like
1:01:55
the lads mags purge? Play. Arcade is a good magazine.
1:01:59
Didn't last for long, I don't think. Which of
1:02:01
the following do you own? PC, Pocket, Neo Geo,
1:02:04
PlayStation, PlayStation 2, Dreamcast, Game Boy,
1:02:08
N64 was dead to these people. So there you go.
1:02:14
That's a little, I should do that more often,
1:02:16
just see what's in the box. N64 was for kids,
1:02:17
right? This is an adult game. True. I mean, hey,
1:02:21
this game wouldn't exist if not for Body Harvest
1:02:24
on the N64, which was where all the start of
1:02:27
the getting in that cars tech and all that stuff
1:02:29
that DMA used in this game began life. Body Harvest.
1:02:32
underrated i think that game's all right surprisingly
1:02:34
violent for an n64 game as well even though you're
1:02:36
only killing bugs but yeah 25 years of uh of
1:02:43
gta 3 and you know goodness me what what a change
1:02:49
in those 25 years for yeah i uh It's hard to
1:02:58
believe, but it makes me want to go back and
1:02:59
replay GTA 3. I really, I really, really, yeah,
1:03:02
I've got a lot of time. The trails and all the
1:03:04
cars annoyed me. You know, the light trails in
1:03:06
GTA 3. Yeah, because they sort of like... It
1:03:08
really pissed me off. They ghosted, didn't they?
1:03:10
I was like, I can't stand these. I'm never playing
1:03:12
this game again. I was quite petty as a teenager,
1:03:15
I guess. As an adult. Anyway, I think that'll
1:03:22
do it for us for this week. I think... No doubt
1:03:27
there'll be a lot more GTA chat coming in over
1:03:29
the coming weeks as we get closer and closer
1:03:31
to that game actually coming out, which is really
1:03:33
exciting. We will be back next week with another
1:03:39
podcast, but it might be a slightly different
1:03:40
format because it is half term. And that means
1:03:43
Tom and I have family related responsibilities.
1:03:47
Half term for non -Brits is when all the... school
1:03:49
kids are off school but also we recorded that
1:03:52
before this episode yeah if you want to you've
1:03:55
spoiled it now i went and changed my shirt and
1:03:56
everything so it looked like i was in a different
1:03:58
day um i didn't i didn't think about that i watched
1:04:04
it between the weeks um yeah i fucked this show
1:04:11
But it'll be a slightly different format of podcast,
1:04:14
but I think it was a fun conversation. And also
1:04:18
there's a lot going on in terms of what we're
1:04:20
playing and preparing. So if the website's a
1:04:22
little bit quieter, it's because there's a lot
1:04:24
of stuff you're going to see once we're allowed
1:04:26
to talk about various things. Obviously, there
1:04:29
will be a Patreon podcast for our lovely, lovely
1:04:35
backers. If you're not one, if you join us, you
1:04:39
get... Ad -free website, ad -free podcast, and
1:04:43
exclusive stuff, including an exclusive bonus
1:04:46
episode of podcast every week where we talk about
1:04:48
off -topic stuff or even more off -topic than
1:04:50
the stuff we've already talked about today, as
1:04:52
James pointed out earlier. And you also get exclusive
1:04:56
articles and stuff like that. And you get to
1:04:58
know you're supporting independent media at a
1:05:00
really difficult time because we've had even
1:05:02
more bloody layoffs and stuff this week. Yes,
1:05:06
please support us if you can. If you can't, we
1:05:08
appreciate you all the same. Yeah, that is going
1:05:13
to do it for this week, except for those of you
1:05:15
we will see in the After Hours podcast over on
1:05:18
Patreon. Rebecca, you got anything you want to
1:05:20
plug before we go? I have been part of the things
1:05:25
going on in the background to hopefully have
1:05:28
a lot of stuff visible again soon. So other than
1:05:30
as ever. Please check out my other podcast, my
1:05:33
own podcast, inadventurepodcast .co .uk. New
1:05:36
episode next Thursday because we just recorded
1:05:39
one last night. So this is two podcasts in about
1:05:42
12 hours. Good times. Yeah, but obviously just
1:05:48
like keeping an eye on the site. I've got some
1:05:49
stuff hopefully going up soon on that. Something
1:05:51
quite, quite chunky coming up. So I can't talk
1:05:55
about it yet, unfortunately. That's me. Awesome.
1:05:58
James? Not by the time this podcast goes live.
1:06:02
Later today, I have a preview going up from a
1:06:07
preview event I went to last week. The first
1:06:09
of two previews. Oh, a preview and probably separately
1:06:14
an interview. I'm not sure if the interview is
1:06:16
going to be up right at the same time or if I'm
1:06:18
going to stagger it. But those two things will
1:06:20
be up within the next like 24 or 36 hours. Cool.
1:06:25
Well, we will see you all next week. Thank you
1:06:28
so much for listening. Thank you for joining
1:06:29
me, you guys, as always. And that'll do it from
1:06:33
us. We will see you next week for some half -term
1:06:36
action. Till next time, everyone. See ya. See
1:06:39
ya. Bye. Yep.