Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #104- "Overcoming A Demon" with Gordon Fulton

Transcript

#104- "Overcoming A Demon" with Gordon Fulton · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So I had already found that out, went on and said that can't be true, that can't be me.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Found out about two years later when I finally got help and went to rehab.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: What does it mean when you have a tar-like substance and they go, that's blood mixed with stomach acid.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: In my head I'm like, yeah, I already knew that.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I guess I just wanted to hear a doctor say it to me.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Hey, blue Grid, we are back this week, your co-host Clint McNair and Tyler Owen.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Tyler Owen, what's going on in your room, man living the?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: dream Just blowing and going Sessions in full swing, and so it's picked up all of our efforts to continue the TMPA mission, and so our alleged team is continuing to I don't want to use the word fight but continue to raise awareness of what we do there at the Capitol and the bad bills and good bills and T-Lex in full force every single Monday or Tuesday at 9 am.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: And so, man, we're just it's busy, busy, busy around TMPA.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: It is busy, big, successful event.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Y'all had Galveston at the Mardi Gras, and then we had the motorcycle rodeo there in round rock, and so hats off to round rock poa, step into success and round rock police, and then, uh, looks like y'all had an uneventful galveston.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: As far as the law enforcement side of things, it was pretty tame.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Um sir, for folks that don't know, gal, galveston's Mardi Gras is the second largest in the United States.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: It takes probably 30 different agencies to work that event.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: But what's really cool about it is it's wild, it's sporty, it's what you would want to see in a Mardi Gras, but it's not.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, everybody's drinking and having a good time and they're doing the Mardi Gras things that you expect at Mardi Gras gras, but you don't see like street brawls and the 18 year old drunk bowing up all of it.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: It's pretty freaking tame and I don't know if it's they respect galveston pd handles business or people are just there to have a good time, but man, it's a freaking cool event and, uh, the whole island does a great job with.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, they do, man, it's.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: It's definitely a different culture down there.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: But what I thought was cool about it was man.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: We've been on there for several years now and started serving lunch Because I think 800,000 people come to the island over the two-week time period.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: That's a ton.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: But I was shocked of how many agencies that were not just in Galveston County that come to assist Montgomery County, harris County, houston PD is on scene.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, all these different agencies come together and so we've said it on this podcast many times but different patches, same mission.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: They don't give a damn if it's in their county or not.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: When Galveston reaches out and they need help, they're coming, and so it was pretty neat to see that.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: You know and you don't see those interconnections uh, very often be successful and you can just tell the brotherhood is still alive.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they work smooth yes, smooth together and I didn't take my glasses there and you could see all these different patches.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when they were coming down the line and I'm trying to read patches, but there's just a every different color, every different style of patch and they work seamlessly.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: It was freaking cool to watch.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: It was cool well, uh, we've got a, a, a very, very, very, very special guest today.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Once you intro him, and uh, it'll, it'll be uh, I don't want to say it's, it's going to be a, a sad one.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's a, it's a successful story, honestly, but it was heart wrenching for me to listen to your story and and, uh, what you went through, and then to see you come out on top Uh, it's a story of strength and, yes, courage and resiliency.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: And uh, we have gordon from dallas pd on.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Uh, our brother over at ato bridge in the nevada podcast, uh, helped us make this happen.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Welcome aboard, brother.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you, I'm glad to be here how was your drive down?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: it was shockingly quick, uh.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I mean I figured it was going to be about three hours with no traffic, yeah, so I gave myself about a four-hour window and it took exactly three hours to get down here.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I was like I figured it's Austin, there's going to be traffic.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Nope, there was zero.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I felt like shit because you texted me and said, hey, we're on the way and I was thinking I'm going to judge it right.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Of course I leave the house extra early to get here.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: It was an hour and a half for me to get to work and I live here close.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: But man, we can't appreciate you coming home.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate you guys asking me to come on down.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: A lot of updates since your podcast.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: By the way, if you haven't number, it is, but it is, uh, it's, it's pretty remarkable.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: We're going to touch on those points today, but there's been some updates since that podcast, yep um, we'd like to kick it off with who?
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: the hell's gordon?
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Where were you born?
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Tell us who you are, tell us, tell us about where gordon's from.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So I originally grew up in southern california, ended up moving to texas uh, because my family's uh job ended up moving over to Texas.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Lived in Flower Mound for several years.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: When I ended up graduating high school I went on ahead and moved out, moved to Arlington, went to school out there for about a year and a half two years, gone back home for a very short while.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Then ended up joining on with Dallas PD, moved up to far north Dallas it was not the country club like they were saying.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It was actually a lot more hectic up there just living than I thought it would be.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Then, from there I ended up just moving in and around the Metroplex and graduated from high school where Flower Mound High School there's two in Flower Mound, if people are aware of that, and it was the Jaguarsuars, not, uh, not the marauders that town has exploded.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Flyer mound the colony those towns have exploded.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's gotten massive.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: When we first moved in uh main street going north towards a highland village, it was just all dirt roads, trees, country.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Now it's just.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't even believe that there used to be pastures out there and you can't tell where the city stops and where flower mounds.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're dallas and all the, all those cities out there.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Garland is carrollton, all of them.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: So what was life like growing up, uh, growing up it was just, it was very average, very peaceful, um didn't get in a lot of trouble, just, I mean you got just the regular curfew.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I mean technically, technically we did run from the cops, but when we ran from the cops it was more for inadvertent criminal trespass Because there was a game that we had called Fugitive.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: And what would happen is is we would end up having a starting point and that would be the fugitives.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: They would get a five minute head start to a location that was randomly picked, that's about two to three miles away.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: You take off on foot and then you got the uh, the captors trying to come find you.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: And I mean game was on, there was no rules, like people would be hanging on the side of suvs, jumping off of them, try to tackle you, to get you in custody again.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So you're taking back roads, alleys over fences, trying to get over there.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Custody again.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So you're taking back roads, alleys over fences, trying to get over there.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Laramont PD absolutely hated that game because of just all of us in high school that would end up playing it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I learned we were wrapping houses and Plano Police Department rolled by and, for whatever reason, somebody screamed around and so we ran.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: I learned that you can get under a boat a v-hole boat and lay under the trailer and suck your body up to the boat and uh, I I took it as training how to, how to search, yeah, better.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: When I was a police officer, I was, I wasn't running from the police.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: I was young, trying to learn better ways to search for some someday when I became a police officer, so I would like to point that out.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: How long ago, uh, I was probably 14, oh, yeah, 18.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Wrapping houses with toilet paper.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Oh the oh.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: The best part was running from the police.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: We didn't realize we were running from the police until all of a sudden we heard them screaming.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: It's the police and we're like, oh crap, because we thought it was our friends still chasing us and all of that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: That's what I meant.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I was always at about one you wouldn't want to roll us my house now, I think, with the price of toilet paper.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an investment.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an investment for sure.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Nobody's second house.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: No, that shit ain't happening now.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: That'd be.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: That'd be 55, 55, 60 dollars per house so so graduated flower mound um.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: What what g Gordon do after high school?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: After high school I ended up going to UTA, university of Texas, arlington Good school.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I ended up leaving after about a year and a half, two years to go on ahead and change my degree.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: One main reason was I was actually asked to leave Arlington.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Um, not not for, not for anything uh bad or anything like that, I just they.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: My grades weren't great because I always studied incredibly hard, because the retention for me is has always been difficult.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: So the day before my final exams and I was originally going into kinesiology, so I was taking all the main ones and then that's the core courses, so I was taking anatomy, physiology, everything like that that was like primarily focused on that degree.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So the day before the exam, for some reason, all of my exams were on the exact same day in the morning, were on the exact same day in the morning.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: So I'm cramming all night long.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I go to take a hour and a half nap so then I could wake up and go start taking my exams.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I blinked and it was about 4 pm and I missed every exam.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and some of those classes.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: The final exam was weighted 75% Tyler and I don't like to call that being asked to leave.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: We like to call it better encouraged, being encouraged to seek better opportunities, better opportunities, yeah.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So after I got uh got asked to uh find better opportunities, involuntarily, uh, I ended up uh going to uh to some community colleges and I was getting my core courses.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Because I was like, okay, okay, I'm going to start, what else do I want to do?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I took that as an L.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, maybe kinesiology is not for me, so I started looking at criminal justice.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Did you happen to go to Harvard on the Hill and Northlake College no.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I did go to Northlake and NCTC.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: There you go, the two different community colleges that I was going to to go on ahead and start knocking out my core classes.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know where the Harvard.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Is it called Harvard on the Hill?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: I've never heard that nickname for it.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Gordon, there's some things in life that you've just got to embrace, and the fact that I knew I would never be going to Harvard, and so that's what I referenced North Lake, it was Harvard on the Hill in Irving, texas, because I knew that there was going to be nothing greater than where where I went to college.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I went to Northlake as well.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Yep, I had the uh.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I went to that main campus over there and then, um, I believe they had their uh the Southern campus over in Capelle, like of uh one 21.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: And then the uh NCTC one.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: It was a satellite campus that I was going to that was in Flyermount in I think it's called Park Square over there.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just started taking a bunch of classes, mostly night courses.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: In what degree were you looking at?
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I was looking at criminal justice.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, you switched it.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, I switched it over to criminal justice.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I don't know what I'm going to do.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Once again, better opportunities.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The opportunity ended up coming knocking on my classroom door on one of my night classes because a Dallas PD recruiter ended up showing up.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: He looked incredibly exhausted and just burnt out and ended up giving one of the most horrifically brutal, honest descriptions of working for Dallas PD.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: That should never be a pitch, but listening to him, I was like that actually sounds pretty interesting.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I actually got drawn in by that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people got turned off in the class, but he looks miserable.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I'd like to be a part of that.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Sign me up.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Sign me up.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So after he ended up leaving, uh, next day ended up waking up, put in my application and about six months later, uh, next thing I knew I was sitting my butt into the academy.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Any family, anybody in law enforcement, prior to that.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Now I'm the only one in my entire family that anywhere down the line that I can even recall, that's been police.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: Prior to the weary recruiter coming in.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Had it ever crossed your mind?
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Had you ever?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: entertained it.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: So I had to entertain the idea, but just as a small kid I mean, we had growing up in California, had NYPD and just like how sharp their uniforms all looked.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So I mean, but you didn't look at LAPD?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: No, I did not look at LAPD, stole it out there.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: They didn't look at LAPD no, I did not look at LAPD, stole it out there.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: They didn't give me the brutal, honest recruiting pitch.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I guess that's brutal Different time, but that was the only time I'd ever considered it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And again, it was just because I was a small kid and saw the cool, crisp uniform, how they held themselves.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I was like that looks pretty cool.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: But outside of that I'd considered it until, uh, the recruiter came into the classroom.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: What year did you go to academy?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I ended up going in on march 12th uh, 2014 talk about the life of being an academy cadet for dpd, because that's kind of where they build the character and they I mean I've I've heard like dps's academies very much tear them down, build them back up and dpd is probably a similar.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: But man, there's so much history with dallas and there's so much, uh, pride.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Do you every time I talk to dpd guy you know they reference the class number and there's a brotherhood really that whenever you graduate, uh, the sense clint, clint's father, being an, you know, a dallas cop, retired dallas cop talk about the pride sense that you had by going through the academy, uh, and talk about what it felt like going through there and then compare that to when you were at UTA.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, uh, the Academy where we were class three 38, got a train to be great.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: There you go, there you go.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Um, so the uh, the life in the Academy I mean.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: So you would show up at AM to uh 5 pm.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: You get to go home.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: It's not like DPS, where you end up getting positioned on campus day and night to be there Day one for us.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: You show up, you're in your suit, you're tied.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: They end up welcoming you and then they immediately start running you In your full suit.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: You just get in it sweaty and dirty, hit the ground, go on ahead and start doing push pushups with that.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: That ain't even breakout day yet.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Breakout day is when they finally go on ahead and they issue you with the PT gear and that's when they just start running you ragged.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And didn't really understand it at the time, but I did afterwards as to why.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Why are all these random officers showing up on breakout day?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: They're not any instructors.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: They're not that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: They just wanted to watch us doing bear crawls and getting thrown on the ground and tripping and falling and being told we can't do a jumping jack, right?
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: No, how many in class three?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: 38?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I think we had 42.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: We had 42 that ended up starting and we had something around 36, 38 that ended up actually making it all the way through the academy.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Damn, that's pretty.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: I mean that's, that's pretty decent compared to academy size.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so did you know where you were going after after the academy, like what, what section, what sector?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: after the academy, like what, what section, what sector?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: So they end up, uh, give, end up telling you that, um, I think it's a week before graduation, they end up going ahead and telling you this is going to be the station that you're going to end up working at, and just so that you can end up have an idea on how to get to work after you end up graduating, um, I think they've changed it up a bit since I've gone through with how the recruits get positioned now, but for us, I mean, I think they get it's a week between graduating and then actually starting at the station, like a downtime or something like that.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Ours it was.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: If your trainer's weekend is Monday, tuesday, you graduated on Friday.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Well, saturday you've got to go into work because that's your your trainer's day.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: But those first two days are station orientation, where you're being driven around the entire division by two very senior officers.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: You're giving you an idea.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is how you get to jail.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: This is the quartermaster, this is the prop room, which you will never remember for the life of you because you're too busy being in uniform in a car going.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, this is all brand new to me.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Yep, um, but yeah, no, I mean uh, you end up getting a little bit of downtime in between.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, you're lucky on where your uh ftos days off would be, but pretty much right after the academy you end up going straight into it.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: So you get transferred to what section and talk about life after the academy and you're now a certified Dallas police officer in training and talk about life.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I'm the police, you're the police.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: So when I ended up graduating, I ended up going to the Central Division, which is just the dead center of the entire city.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: It encompasses downtown, a little bit of, or most of all of, uptown, a little bit of South Dallas, where you got the Fair Park, tennyson Park, and then you go out east a little bit where you're touching on parts of northeast which would almost collide with a bit of Garland, bit of garland.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: My very first day I didn't get to experience that all that much because I my very first day, along with many of my other uh classmates, we got to experience our very first protest.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, it was a start.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: It was, uh, the very first time that at least I got told by, uh my trainer is the very first time that, uh, they had ever actually successfully taken over I-30.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: So when they ended up showing up, we have for people watching that have been trying to figure out why I'm texting.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: We have a surprise guest coming on.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: This is now city manager or, excuse me, assistant city manager, Eddie Garcia, and when he was the former Dallas police chief and he's very, very much a part of this conversation.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Grab your hip.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Chief, I know you're short on time.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to have this moment.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, are you kidding me?
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Good to see you, chief.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: It's good to see you.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: You look fantastic.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Thank you, sir.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Thank you, you look fantastic.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: Look how great he looks.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I didn't mean to throw a wrench and a surprise on you here, but I've been working.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: I was praying I could make this.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is awesome.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, this is great.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: This is fantastic.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Great, yeah, this is great.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: It's fantastic.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Great to see how are you doing.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I've been good, I've been doing really good Supervising, keeping kids in check.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, when I ended, up on the last bid.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I ended up going up to Northwest and Taylor.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: He ended up actually allowing me to be the proactive supervisor over Third Watch, and it's been continuing since.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I still remember what you ended up uh, whispering in my ear, if you don't mind me saying it you ended up telling me that that's exactly what that is now go ahead I mean you ended up telling me do good things, do good things for your troops.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and then, uh, I I like to think that I'm trying to live up to that, because I mean I'm telling them all your troops, with all your troops, have gone through, that's what.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: What I was about to tell you was I mean, you know about two of my troops that were involved in the officer of all shooting, but what you might not have known also is, from the hand selected group that I've had, because of the record keeping that I've had on them and the stats and the pushing them, three of the original guys that I ended up having brought over to the proactive unit I no longer have because they've been selected for a task force.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I've had five officers successfully get the meritorious conduct award.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I have two additional officers that are in the process again the certificate of merit.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I've had one officer gone ahead and went officer of the year for the STEMIS corridor.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I have another officer that ended up getting Officer of the Month for the DPA and then today one of my other troops who's a completely rising star.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: He's getting Officer of the Month as well.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Look at that Dude.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: That's amazing.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: That is awesome.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: That is awesome.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Always knew you were going to do great things.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: Thank you, sir.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Always knew, yep, always knew you're gonna do great things.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, sir, always knew that it takes.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: He and I were on uh joe's podcast the other day and we were talking about you and jeff bryan out at garland and people having the intestinal fortitude to invest at the risk of, yeah, if it blows up, their city manager may want to know what the hell you were thinking.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it takes intestinal fortitude and leadership to invest.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: And then how freaking cool and I'm trying to not get emotional getting to see what it's done, because a while ago you can tell him he was telling me in there about his troops and he's losing them all because people are stealing them, because they're doing great things.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And what a testament to both you both you men.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, now I appreciate I take no, uh, no credit whatsoever.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: He did it all.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: I say that till the end of, until end of my time.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: He did it all and it's a testament to your leadership.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: Um, because let's face it, man, I remember being a troop.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: I didn't know who the hell my chief was, but I damn well remember every sergeant I had.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, um and so, and I think we could all testify to that, like I don't, I I'm not quite sure I even knew, or really.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Well, then again, they weren't very present either back in the early 90s.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: Chiefs seem chiefs seem to stay in their suits and in their offices, but they remember who their sergeants are, man.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: So I mean I've been telling my guys, even my one guy, uh, who found out he was getting the award today.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: He found out yesterday.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I mean he was telling me about it and I was.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I had to remind him.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I'm like I didn't do this, you did.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I was like your hard work, your hard effort being put in makes all of this possible for each and every one of you.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: All I have to do is be able to put it into a memo that actually is grammatically correct, because that's my hardest thing off with memos yeah I understand that grammar is not my strong point either.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: I thought it gets better to work on that, brother we might have to work on.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: But we pursued great better opportunities we went to harvard on the hill.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, so shout out to north lake college.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: They're in irving, so anyway.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Well, y'all, man.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Um, so you're living life as a patrolman.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, they're at dpd chief, do you need to pop out?
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: I do need to pop out.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: I gotta, I gotta prep for let's get a testifying at the capital tomorrow, so that was definitely not gonna miss this you're a dallas police officer.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yep, you're on patrol.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Um, I know about, obviously and a lot of black people who are, who are watching this podcast, know about what.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: What transition?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Was there a point where it just kind of came a natural thing, living as a patrolman and then kind of taking or partaking living the lifestyle that became a burden, or was it just kind of something that developed into something you're afraid of?
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: That again, sorry, I guess what I'm saying is that you were you Dallas police officer and then you grabbed some habits along the way.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: At what point did it become recognizable or unrecognizable when you looked in the mirror saying something needs to change?
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and how far in your career, how long had you been on when you realized things?
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: You were finding different ways to cope that weren't healthy.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I had been on for about six to seven years okay, uh, from when I very first started entering the academy to developing bad habits and then recognizing there's a pretty serious problem going on, but going on ahead and just pushing it to the side, burying it down.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: But it was probably around six to seven year mark when I first started recognizing there's a bit of an issue going on.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, did it start out as like just choir practice, all just, you know the dudes drink when you get off shift.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Or was it some calls, some polarizing events, or some calls where you're like, yeah, I got to go home and get in the bottom of a bottle to move past the stress or this scene or the image?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: So the very first time that there was a situation where that I can even think of that.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I originally started drinking to go to sleep because it was just just.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It was probably the most horrific scene I had gone to in terms of like emotionally.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: It was, um, I mean, I'll remember the kid's name until I get dementia or until I die.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: His name is paul miltberger and I was on third phase of training and it was easter sunday morning and he had come into town to see his folks from college.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: You know, crossing the street guy was speeding about, he was going about 75 in a 50, ended up just absolutely just obliterating him.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: He ended up hitting the street about 120 feet from the initial impact bounced, went another additional 50 or so feet before he crashed into the tree where he eventually passed.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: And the part about the scene that really haunted me and gave me nightmares and just in general prevented me from sleeping wasn't so much image of seeing Paul's body just like hugged up on the tree with his head split open.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: It was hearing his girlfriend, hearing his friends, hearing his family members that were screaming at the top of their lungs at the scene.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I had never heard that kind of ear piercing sorrow.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: You were in third phase of training.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I was in my third phase of training.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Were you a?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: drinker growing up, like in college and stuff.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Were you a drinker or just?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the normal kid no, just the normal kid doing stupid stuff and drinking.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was in a fraternity so I mean it was my fraternity prided themselves on their academic achievement.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: It actually kept the Dean off our back.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: So if we partied it might've been on the weekend or that, but really it was.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Look, you're going to have your grades up.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Drinking isn't the point of this fraternity.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: So I mean, there was some drinking, but absolutely nothing.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: What ended up happening later on, especially after that incident, which was the first one, because I started having trouble at night sleeping, just because I could hear the echoes in my head of the screams that were happening, you could actually just feel it internally, that pain suffering which I wasn't accustomed to.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: That, I'll say it, that was.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I wasn't I, I'll say it.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I had a privilege uh, bringing up, I mean no real sorrow, no real, uh, horrible images or deaths in the family.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I was a butcher and a deli clerk before I was police, so there was nothing that would have been able to prepare me for experiencing that, that would have been able to prepare me for experiencing that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: So after that night, maybe a couple of days, maybe a week later, I'd start to end up having a couple of shots to quiet my head so that I could go to sleep, but that was the first incident of me thinking about it, of when I started using alcohol as a coping mechanism.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Got you using alcohol as a coping mechanism.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, yeah, was there situations where it was like would you go drink with other friends at DPD, or was it just you would kind of just do it like, oh, this is just an alcoholic beverage here at the house, not a big deal, and then talk about kind of how, when you recognized, it became a problem.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: So, okay, when I would uh first start drinking yeah, it was mainly just by myself in my house if I ended up going to drink with friends or that, which, honestly, I became a recluse uh, in many ways shapes and forms so kind of from that point on in third phase fto or did that progress?
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: like keeping my keeping myself reclused and closed off from everybody, that progressed as well.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Um, didn't really want to go out, didn't want to talk to anybody.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Um, like I'd if somebody wanted to come over to my place, that was perfectly fine with me.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But going out and drinking I would do that on occasion, but normally what I would end up doing is I'd end up pre-gaming beforehand, just have I would be drinking pretty heavily leading up to it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: So then I'd get my Uber, I'd go out and then it would look like I'm having two or three drinks and really I'm absolutely loaded at that point.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: So nobody's going to think is there something wrong?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Why are you drinking so much?
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Avoid all those questions.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Or the way I ended up rewarding myself in the end, which was I would end up maybe having like one or two drinks and then Ubering having two or three drinks there.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I would then reward myself by when I got home having an entire bottle.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I'd be like I didn't.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I did not drink that much while I went out.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I'm a good drinker, I am normal, I am stable, and now I'm drinking an entire fifth by myself.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: What I do think is interesting is that the people that you were hanging out with and having these, these, these drinks with, were they, were they in your law enforcement circle?
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Uh, because oftentimes people get in this profession and, just like you said, they, they, they recluse, they, they, they distance themselves from the past friends, because nobody understands what we see, nobody understands what we've been, nobody understands the ear piercing sorrows that you know what you went through on that third phase during FTO, and so what happens is that you push these friends aside that you've developed relationships with over years and years and years and you either A you recluse in or B you kind of form this little small pack of friends that are all cops or firemen or some type of public safety.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Is that similar kind of what happened to you?
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Or was it friends that you'd been friends with a long time?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I pretty much had cut everybody out, both law enforcement and longtime friends.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, my circle went from.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: It was already pretty tightly packed, yeah, because I mean that's how I like it.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, keep a few close friends by, you don't need an entire crowd following you.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: But it became even smaller where it was literally probably about enough to fit onto one hand.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: One of them was a friend that we met when he knocked me out in high school in football.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: That's how we first met and became friends.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: So I would end up having some drinks with him and all of that.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And then there was only four times maybe in that entire time that I can think were specifically cops.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I went out to go hang out or drink with them.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: But I mean I was.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I ended up just cutting everybody off from my entire life.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Um, just so I could end up sitting at home and drinking.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: If I did end up hanging out with cops and my friends who were civilians, I actually would end up having them come over to my house so that I could feel like I'm a normal drinker.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I actually would end up having, I mean, a lot of people enjoyed them.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: They didn't realize the underlining of them.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I'd have a party, a Christmas party, every year at my house.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I called it Merry Drunkmas and like I mean I think we had like three or four, I had it happen three or four times for anniversaries.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Just like, hey, this is number one.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Two, three, four, after the first one, like several officers and all that, they would end up telling me they're like're like hey, we heard about the party that you have.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Like, can I end up coming next year?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Like, of course you can come next year the more people are there.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: It allowed me to feel normal, feel the warmth of everybody, but I was able to drink openly like I normally did, without anybody batting an eye, because it just seemed like it was a giant party.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, camera with a quote verbatim.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: But it was basically like you can, you can never feel more intimate and alone than when you're at a party with a large group of people, and that's exactly what I did.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I used this large party once a year at my house to be able to gather all these friends together from across the spectrum, just so I could feel normal and abuse alcohol.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about uh, it's, it's.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: it's interesting You're bringing that point up because during this, had you and your spouse had had, had you, had y'all been together during this transition of you becoming a police officer, or did y'all meet during?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: No, we, uh, we met, uh, several years after I was already an officer, an officer and uh, when, actually when we ended up meeting, I was actually very far down the rabbit hole with my drinking.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I was at that point of no return.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I had already recognized that there's an issue, but I kept on putting it on the back, brother.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Every morning I'd wake up tell myself you're fine, you're not, you're not feeling that bad, you can do this again.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: So people who who turn to alcohol generally are really good at rationalizing it to themselves.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: How long did you rationalize it that I'm doing good, or I'm handling this, or I'm good, until you realize, damn, I think I got a freaking drinking bro two years.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Two years uh, pretty much solidly was the amount of time that I was drinking myself to absolute death and rationalizing that it wasn't that big of a deal, mainly because I ended up getting an actual system in place for myself so I could drink and still function at work and not be drunk at work.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, probably the most horrific rationalization is being in my kitchen, knowing that I have if I got home on time, I had a three hour window to drink my entire fifth of bourbon and then be able to go to sleep right there and then, by the time I wake up, get something to eat, drink some caffeine and then head into work.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I'm triple zeroed out at that point.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: But recognizing that on some of those nights there would be only a few ounces of liquor left in the bottle and my feet feel like they're planted in cement, I want to go to bed, I don't want to drink anymore, and I am actually saying out loud.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was probably the closest thing to like in a emotionally disturbed person where you just see them talking to themselves.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I was talking to myself in the kitchen like saying out loud, because I thought that would make me want to walk, make me want to go to bed, saying I don't want this drink, I don't want to drink anymore, but I can't move.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: The little voice in the back of my head saying no, you got to have this drink.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: You got to have it or you will die.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And I'm pouring the drink and I'm saying I don't want to have this, still can't move.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I slammed back home the rest of the liquor that I had in the bottle and then, all of a sudden, this wave of relief comes over me on saying you can go to bed.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: On the next episode of Blue Grid Podcast.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I go on ahead and I'm self-medicating myself with Excedrin and easily 900 milligrams of caffeine before the end of detail.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: So that's about an hour and a half, two hours.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I'm pounding back that much caffeine so that I can feel normal and stable and alert.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: And at that point that's when the voice in the back of my head is going see, it's not that bad, You're still here, You're okay.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Hell, no, I'm not okay.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: So I ended up looking it up as to what I was vomiting one day, because I was like what did I eat?
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Because it looked like I threw up tar.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So I never had to worry about hiding the alcohol on my breath because I always I mean, that was a part of me figuring it out on how to be able to show up to work.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: So I end up shutting the door and she recognizes there's already something wrong.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: There's no way I could possibly try to explain to her my mindset because my mind's all over the place as to how I got to where I was.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: So I just I did.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I broke down crying in front of her and said everything in the most incoherent way possible of needing help, and when I finished I just told her I don't know who I need to reach out to.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I need help.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Please, please, help me, Thank you.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Guitar solo.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you.