Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 725: Dispatches from Africa - Steve's in Tanzania!

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Ep. 725: Dispatches from Africa - Steve's in Tanzania! · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, we're coming at you virtually live like
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: damn near live from Tanzania and Africa. And if you
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: listen to the show, you heard me complain about when
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: we have to sit on episodes for various stupid reasons
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: that I can't explain and then release them later. These
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: were gonna just release them as they happen. As we're
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: in in Africa hunting with Morgan Potter from Robin Hurt Safaris,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and so we're gonna do little updates, nothing major to
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: update yet. But what we are gonna do is kind
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: of lay the set the scene of where we're at
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and where we're not at, and there's a thing and
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: when when. If you study the writing process, one of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the things they'll teach you is they'll teach you to
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: go gross too close, meaning start with a wide view
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and narrow in. So start us with a wide view.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: We're in Tanzania. What does that mean when you're looking
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: at the African continent.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Tanzania is on on the east coast, below Kenya,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: above Mozambique.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: The Middle East is off to the northwest.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, north northeast, Yeah, northeast. And then yeah, so you've
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: got Kenya to the north, Mozambique to the south, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: then yeah, I mean Tanzania sh has borders with a
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: bunch of countries Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, and where else is
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Zambia Okay.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that one of the most
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: important things that I think people should understand is it
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: has part of the thing that every American has heard of,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: including me. It has part of the SERENGETI Yes, yeah,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: it's got all of the Serengetti, which is contiguous with
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: the Masai Mara, which is Kenya's component, the border being
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the Mara River. So yeah, the serengetis, like we were
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: talking about it to you, like quintessential. You get a
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: postcard from Africa, there's a picture of a flat top
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of Kacia on there, lions sleeping underneath of it, big
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: grassland in the background. Not where we are right now, No,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: not where we're at. And I keep I remarked you
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: ten times over the last two days that having been
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: like raised on those wildlife documentaries I and those images
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that are taken in that ecosystem, I'm going to get
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to how different this is like having been raised on that,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Like that's sort of an expectation you wound up having
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: where I sort of felt like, other than the congo, right,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: other than the jungle, I picture like that, that's what
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Africa looks like, Yeah, the flat top of cass and
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the open grasslands yep. And it was cool because prior
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to us hunting, we got to go look at some
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of that stuff. Yeah, and it is like like you
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: can see forever there's like drafts hanging out, zebra's wandering by.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And even when I knew we were going to come hunt,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: no western, I had no idea that was going to
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: be like this. Yeah, right, Like if you showed me
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: a picture where we're at right now, never in a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: million years, I guess that must be Africa.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure. And I bet even even if
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: you looked at like regular photo tourism, the number of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: people that would get to experience this particular type of
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: habitat an environment like this part of Africa would be
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: just a vanishingly small number, like five percent or less.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: You know, the bulk of tourism is centered around that
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: northern circuit, so north of Arusha, they're into the Serengeti
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: and Goa Goa crater where we were like Natron, Trengeary,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: these sort of areas that, yeah, they do. They have
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: that very quintessential like Africa, look particularly East Africa.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And what's great about it that stuff is this really
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: good wild they're viewing because you can see so far.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Yep, you can see a long way and then being
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: where it is with all that kind of volcanic activity
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: in that part of the rift, the soil is very
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: rich and the rainfall is quite consistent. So the game
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: density there on those short grass plains is very high
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: in comparison to here, where we've got comparatively porous soils,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a lot sandier soil, a lot rockier soil. And yeah,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: it's sort of a different rainfall pattern to consistent rain
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: here too, but it's a different kind of pattern to there,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: and as a consequence, the game densities are just very
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: different and the species are very different. You know a
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: lot of that stuff. So those desert adapted species we
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: talked about the Geranook obviously, Grant's gazelle, Thompson's gazelle, you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: those kind of species that are very water independent and
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: some of them can go pretty much indefinitely on metabolic water.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Everything out here is a little thirstier, including the species
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: of plants.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is this is like, I don't want
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: people to get the idea that this is monotonous. It's
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: anything but monotonous. No, And I'll have you walk through
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: the different little habitat types that are here. But what
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: do you call this running now?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: So what we're in now is called meboo woodland. Yeah,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: it's like a woods.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And when I keep remarking to Morgan, is like growing
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: up in western Michigan when you get up in the
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: upper sandy soils and you're just out in the woods
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and you got like like scrubby little oaks and sassafras.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: It's very reminiscent of that in terms of the density
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: of the trees, the height of the trees. But then
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you go over that way I think it's that way yep,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: and you enter this this valley of palms eight foot
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: high grass. And I was joking earlier like from someone
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the just just to go to off movie references and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: documentary references, you feel like you're in a Vietnam movie. Yeah, yeah,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: it's and that stuff. And then all of a sudden you
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: roll over the hill and you're like, dude, I'm in Michigan. Yeah, yeah, No,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: it's very different stuff going on.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. The diversity here is one of the special
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: things about this concession. It's got with the river there,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it's got those kind of yeah, that river, irond habitat,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: those floodplains and crocodiles, crocodile hippos, and then the real
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: special thing that you've got there is that papyrus swamp,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: which is this is a massive tract of intact papyrus swamp.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And then you've got the East African sitatunga living in there,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: which is a very specially adapted antelope to be able
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to survive basically its whole life in papyrus swamps.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think too that that is kind of cool,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit unexpected is in certain areas around here,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: it's like a little bit of a working landscape. Like
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: there's there's commercial fishermen they'll use dog out canoes fishing
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: someone that stuff. Yep, for a couple more weeks. There's
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: guys out collecting wild honey, yep. That'll be out here
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: for a couple more weeks. I mean, like very widely dispersed.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: But you see, it's not like just fantasy land like
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: you see, like ways in which people use the landscape
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to get their living and I know that brings up
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of complications around poaching and other things, but
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: it's like it's inhabited in a way, very spirally, but
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: it's inhabited.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. There's no permanent settlement in here.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: But there are people that have permits, you know, as
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: you saw today when we ran into the honey guys, right,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: we stopped and checked their permits, make sure their paperwork's
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: all square. And we don't have a problem with that,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: you know. Where about these game reserves being a livelihood
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: generator for local communities, obviously there's the benefits that they
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: get from some revenue retention from hunting and our operations,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: but we don't want to keep people out of here entirely.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: We just it has to be controlled and it has
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: to be managed so that fishery is very carefully controlled.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Us in conjunction with Tanzania Wildlife Management Authority, we're constantly
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: making sure that that fishing is being done the right way,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: you know, not illegal nets being used, other illegal methods
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: you know, such as netting off the whole river or
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: coming into the game waters themselves, and that's really important
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to make sure those fish have a sort of safe
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: spawning ground and a bit of a reservoir so they
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: can Then those waters that are getting fished commercially can
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: be kind of re stopped by those game reserve waters.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So it's beneficial to the fishermen to adhere to those
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: rules too. And then yeah, the honey hunters, it's the
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: same thing. As long as they're not interfering with our
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: operations and as long as they're not you know, delving
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: into other unlawful activities while they're here. We're very tolerant
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: of that and we want to support those livelihoods and
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: see people do well.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: There's maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like there's like
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: sort of like three types of types of land management here,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: which isn't totally dissimilar to something you'd find in the
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: US where you have national park land right that doesn't
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: have any of those activities, aren't it right? Zero, It's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: just like it's just like photo tourism. We're near a
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: national park in Rofe Harmony Acres or how many square
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: miles of the national park that's near here.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty big one. I'd say it's some
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: in that thousand square mile kind of range.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: And Morgan mentioned me and we are here. The last
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: year the thousand square mile national park, which is what's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a colon.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: It's called Augalla National Park, had fourteen visitors.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you're looking for a very quiet national park,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah, I mean yeah again, like I'll shield for
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a Galla National Park all day.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: People should make a visit. It'd be great, But it
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: shows here it's so remote. Yeah, it's so remote. And
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: again for your average tourist who's not who wants to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: see the big five right and a million world to
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: beast in a day, this isn't the place to come.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: And I see that. You know, even us driving around
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: today and it's been a bit of a you know,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: we've been pretty focused on going places where buffalo hangout today.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: You know, we haven't been going to a lot of
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: areas where you'll find a big diversity of species. So
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: that's why it's kind of been a quiet day in
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: that sense. But I mean you can have days like
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: this where you know, the myombo's just a bit stare all.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, well, a thing I should clarify, and I've told
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: you this's like a thing that drew me to wanting
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that drew me to wanting to hunt Kate Buffalo is it.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: It's the kind of thing you like get in there
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and shake hands with.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I mean like you get in that thick stuff with
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: it and they're like they're dangerous, and it's just like
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: that was exciting to me. It's like being in there,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: so I don't mind the thickness. It's just it's just
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: different than what I saw in the other part. But
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: to get back to this land management thing, so you
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: have a national park, which is kind of like like
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: for Americans a picture like picture a national park in
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: the US, very similar model, very similar model. What what
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: is very different would be the game? Would it like
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a concession or wildlife refuge? Like I can't think maybe
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you can't. I can't think of a way to explain
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: that with an American analogy.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it there's nothing in the US that would be
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: like similar that would be Yeah, that would be a
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: good kind of analog for this. It's it's something that
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: it goes weya. So we're in a's and within that
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: category there's sort of subcategories. Right, So where we were
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: in mass Island is called a game controlled area, so
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: that's got looser rules around land use. There can be
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: some permanent settlement there, there can be some seasonal sort
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: of settlement. There can be livestock grazing, there can be
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a few other activities that would not be acceptable here
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: given that this is a game reserve. And then you've
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: got a couple of below game controlled area. You've got
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: a couple of other tiers too that are even more
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: kind of loose as far as what's allowed in their
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: land use wise from local people. But we're very lucky
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that this area has been designated a game reserve by
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the Tanzanian government. Uganzo yeap Luganzo Tonguare Game Reserve is
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: the full name of it. And it's Yeah, it's a
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: magnificent piece of ground. This is the size of Yellowstone
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: National Part. Yeah, roughly the same size. Yeah, it's a
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: it's a huge chunk of ground. And yeah, just having
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: that legal protection from the government gives us the ability
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: to really make sure that those more destructive form of
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: land use, like livestock grazing, which isn't in of itself
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: inherently destructive necessarily, it's just that here where there's such
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: a big predator population that inevitably leads to conflict. That
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: can and that can be you know, the predators can
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: come off badly from that. You know, cutting trees is
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: something we don't want to see here. This is a
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: very important piece of intact woodland that's really supporting a
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: lot of different species in the myombo and the kind
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: of myombo edges. So we want to see that intact.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Just a touch on that for a minute. For people
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: who's like, here you have elephant draft zebra, I mean
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: like here, yeah, oh yeah, if you sat here, you
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: could watch go buy elephant draft zebra, kudu, leopards.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Lions, lions, eland sable roane, harder, beast, topi. I mean,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: there's a huge variety of species in here.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: And for how big it is, you guys take so like,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: for how big it is, you guys kill such a
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: small amount of animals that I feel like it's like
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it's like from a management perspective, it's effectively equivalent to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: a park. Yeah, it's like it's not like it's you know,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: it's like very selective. Like you're explaining me here, you
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: guys are only allowed to kill male spatimens of anything
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: right exactly, you know, and as we're like really small
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: numbers like a few of these, a few of those.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a handful of species and we've we've managed
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: it that way deliberately. One of the great things about
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: the Tanzanian system is we get a quota that's based
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: on research. So right now we're actually working with TAWIRI,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: which is the Tanzania Wildlife Research Institute, and some other
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: sort of outside NGOs to do a study on predators
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: in this area.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Predators want including ones.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: We can't hunt right like wild dogs, for example, which
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: are entirely protected. So we're trying to get a handle
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: on how many predators we've got here, which can better
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: inform our off take. And the great thing is we're
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: only obligated to utilize four percent of the quota that
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: we're assigned, and we seldom go over that on any
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: given So they want you to use forty percent that
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: were mandated to use forty as they're mandated to pay
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: for forty percent, So we get it assigned to quota,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: but we have to utilize forty percent and we rarely
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: go right.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the land we're on just I keep trying to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: make analogies.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: To the US.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could wind up thinking of it like like
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: in a way, you could think of it like national
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: forest land, meaning we're on land that's owned by the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: federal government in Tanzania.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: The federal government in Tanzania has two objectives like preserve
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: wildlife correct, right, like create wildlife habitat, preserve wildlife, but
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: also monetize the landscape. Absolutely, so they're able to monetize
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: this huge chunk of ground simultaneously preserving wildlife by auctioning
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: off these blocks. Correct to so far R Company or
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: however you put like a like a like a hunting
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: guide an operation. Then they come in and say, okay,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you you operate within this piece of land. Our biologists
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: will do some sort of assessment of what's there. Yep,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you're allowed this level of take. And then besides that
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you besides that, you're paying a fee to utilize the land.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: They're then saying every animal that comes off the money
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: is in our pocket's correct, and it applies like a
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: big value to the wildlife. And there's something that you
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: said that kind of like helps me because this is
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: all very new to me. But there's there's a comment
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you made that helps me think about it is I
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: was I was talking about, like, you guys eat a
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: lot of game, you know, like every night we eat
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: game from the stuff you guys clients have gotten. And
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I was saying, well, when you guys want something to eat,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: can you just go get what you want to eat?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And you're saying, like, at this point it's too valuable. Yeah,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: like that stuff those animals are all assigned value by
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the gum.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, it makes no sense for us
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: to utilize them that way. They're they're far too valuable.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that quota we do have and that we
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: do intend to utilize, we're saving it exclusively for you know,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: for our clients.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And that and like the value the animals is that's
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: something that's set by the government, correct, Yeah, And a
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: place can op charge or not, but there's what they
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: expect to see.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, they have their their fixed amount
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: that they want for each one of those species, which
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: is great because the trophy fee, you know, to really
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: like simplify it big broad brush terms, the trophy fee
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: pays for the conservation. And that's and the beauty of
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: these areas is out here, you know, as you've seen
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: driving in here. Really there's a couple of little things,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: like there's a bit of mining, there's a bit of
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: forestry going on in these areas, and there's some kind
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: of more larger scale agriculture. But in general, the big
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: competing land use here is subsistence farming, which is so
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: it's so marginal and so destructive. So for the government
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: to have the foresight to say this area, if we
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: protect it is going to be something that generates revenue
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: not just for central government but for local communities as well,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: which can offset some of that need for constant subsistence farming.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: But aside from that, it also is something that's like
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: infinitely renewable. You know, this doesn't aside from our efforts
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to preserve the area, which is all kind of baked
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: in to our costs. You know, it's a cost of
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: doing business putting in these roads, you know, maintaining the
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: area so that it's accessible and we can conduct anti poaching,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: we can conduct our safaris efficiently. Aside from all that,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the government doesn't need to invest in these areas really,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, they have a budget and they do do
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: a lot to help support us in protecting the area
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and that's kind of something we do together. But in
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: general it's not a high investment thing, but it's got
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: a very good return.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: You return me to something else trying to do. I
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: want to talk well anti poaching in our in our
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: game war that we're hanging out with. Yeah, yeah, but
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted I was talking about those three use types.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I was saying, like national park, which would be very
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: similar to what American would imagine a national park, would
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: be a concession, which is different than what you'd picture.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And then the third category being like sort of like
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: an undesignated landscape that and this is gonna be very
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: weird to Americans. It's like an undesignated landscape that has
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: like very unregulated subsistence farming activities. Meaning it's like like
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: if you if you go back and imagine the if
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: you go back and imagine the American frontier of the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Appalachian Region in seventeen seventy seventeen eighty, yep, it's like
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: like like in Boone and guys like that, it's basically
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: what they did. Yeah, Like they just kind of go
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: into a place, chop a bunch off down, burn stuff,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: grow a crop, deplete the soil, bump belong grow a
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: corn crop, and it's kind of it's still like that,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: like you just have like communities and I can see
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: that if you didn't have and flying over it, you
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: see they're gigantic. You see geometrical shapes, Yes, that are gigantic.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Though it'd be like you're looking like for as far
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: as you can see, you see a straight line and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: it winds up being where stuff is slash and burn
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: agg and live stide grazing, and it comes up to
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: like a game reserve and then it's like then it's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: like wilderness and then you know, ten minutes later whatever
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: five minutes later, you fly over the other edge and
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it goes back to like slash and burn egg and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: livestock grazing.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the issues that we have
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: is that there isn't really a buffer anymore. You know.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: It's that that human kind of activity is right up
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: against our boundaries, which is is an opportunity and you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and a sort of risk. The risk is if if
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: those communities aren't being properly served, if they're really struggling,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: there's always that temptation for encroachment as far as pushing
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: livestock in here, pushing agriculture in here, poaching activities like that.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: But if those communities are properly served, they could be
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: great partners for conservation too. They can really help us
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: out in protecting these areas, long term policing outsiders that
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: might be coming in looking to do criminal activity, and
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a great source of employees and people that we can
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: just generally cooperate with. So we see that not in
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: such a negative light. It presents both an opportunity at risk,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: and we're just always trying to tweak our operations and
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: adjust our kind of posture to where those communities are
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: on side. They're seeing the benefits and they're working with us,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: rather than we're kind of like at odds, Well.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: It's such another aspect, then we're kind of we'll clause
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: up with what our objective is going to be over
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the next few days. But here's another aspect. They would
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: like blow Americans minds. Weren't a what anybody would define
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: as a wilderness area. You guys have you call him roads.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: You guys have trails, Like if you didn't tend to
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: this in two years, it's gone, it's gone here. Yeah,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: So you guys have a trail network, you have a camp,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you have vehicles. So what the Tanzanian government's able to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: do is they're able to put a law enforcement officer
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: like a game warden with you in your truck. So
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: his responsibility is like what are you up to? But
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: also you provide like the infrastructure and transportation for him
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: to then patrol the wilderness. And like today we went
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: out and ran into some dudes doing wild honey and
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: like the guy with us carrying AK forty seven, like
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: ask them for their honey license, but he produces out
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: of his pocket and checks his paperwork, you know. And
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: it's just like it'd be like if someone said, like, hey,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: while you're hunt in the US, or someone said, hey,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: why you boys are elkinne, do you mind giving our
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: game word and a ride around so he can see
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: what's going on, you know, just like it's like completely
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, it's impossible to picture, but it's like
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: this such a different interesting system. Yeah, you make like
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you make it possible for wildlife law enforcement to occur
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: in this area. Yeah, and otherwise it probably wouldn't. Yeah,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: absolutely well, we and that's always been a big thing
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: for us, our relationship with TAWA, which is the agency
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that he comes from, is about cooperation. We want to
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: do things together. Our goals are very much aligned. When
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: our business works, their revenue looks good and their outcomes
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: as far as wanting to see habitat restoration and stable
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: or growing numbers of wildlife and intact wilderness, they're meeting
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: their goals too. So very much everything we do here
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: is in collaboration with them, right down to I mean,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and you know, right down to the fact that, yeah,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the relationship with him is not adversarial.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not like, yeah he's jumping out. He's really keen.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: He's really invested in our success because that's where that's
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: where their bread's buttered. Right. And then even our anti
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: poaching patrols behind the scenes, that's done totally in cooperation
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: with TAWA as well. That's a joint venture between us
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: and then to everyone's mutual benefit. So yeah, that's one
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: of the really nice things here. These law enforcement guys
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: to us, they're not like the fun stoppers, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: they're sure they're there to help us.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Another fun one that I think would be just surprising.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I can think of one example in the US, some
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: shuters more but like there's some unit, there's some black
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: bear units in Alaska where if you hit the bear,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: that's your tag.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, you touch the bear, it that's your tag yep.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Here if you wing it, yeah that's true. Yeah, it
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: comes off your license wounded, lost, and and that's like
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: that's that's the hunter's chance has been like, well let's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: go get another one.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: No, no, I mean there are things where you have
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: multiples on license, but but you're still paying for that
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: first one. And so that's another great reason to do
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: your do your practice. You come, take your time, and
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: if you don't feel good, you know, don't pull the trigger.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: That's a big one. I can. I can bring my
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: clients right up to that point, but once once it
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: comes to pressing that trigger, that's all on you. So
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: but we won't have any issues there.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Don't play on on it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: So explain where hard this is going to play out
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: over the next few days as we try to get
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: a buffalo.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, we're early season here. The cover is
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: still really thick, a lot of thick vegetation, a lot
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: of tall grass. So that's kind of got a double
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: edged quality to it. Where we we're gonna it's gonna
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: make it easier for us to sneak up on them,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: but it's going to make it harder for us to
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: find them. So we're really focusing on finding tracks, and
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: that means getting up early, well before dawn, transiting through
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: those less productive areas, and getting to kind of buffalo hotspots,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: which at the moment is these little valleys that kind
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: of feed down to the Ugulla River and those valleys
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: hold buffalo and in there we have roads that kind
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: of transsect them. A lot of those roads, unfortunately right
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: now are still pretty wet, so that's why we've done
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of walking today, just trying to kind of
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: find those tracks on foot. But in an ideal world,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: we'd cut those tracks where they've crossed one of our
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: roads or where they've come from water, or we'll find
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: them on foot if need be, and once we find
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: a good viable track. You know, this morning we had
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: a bit of an issue with there was tracks mixed
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: in with other tracks, and the buffalo had been feeding
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: and a herd had crossed over the bulls, and then
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: the bulls had crossed back over the herd, and it
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: was just extremely difficult to sort out to where it
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like a good use of time. But eventually,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: if we keep at it, we're going to find a
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: set of tracks where there'll be some feeding. But then
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: we'll see where they've lined out to go look for
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: shade and look for a place to lay down and
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: ruminate during the day, and we're going to get on
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: those tracks and follow them till we find those buffalo.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's parts excites me.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be it's so hard to picture.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, and it's a different feeling. I mean, it's been
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: cool today to look for tracks, old tracks and different tracks.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: But when you're on a track that's really got some
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: substance to it, like you've got something to really chew on,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: and you see the guys are on it and they're
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: following it and they're engaged, that's a different feeling and
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to feeling
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: that vibe.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: It's hard take a stab out here. How many miles
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: might you cover today? It really depends on what you're doing.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: But I bet in some of these days we'll do
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: one hundred, one hundred and twenty miles in the car
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and then you know, prop all on trails and then
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: anywhere from four to twenty on foot, just depending on
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: how where we end up and how close we can
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: get the car to come pick us up. We were
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: kind of lucky today. We did a few miles and
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: we were able to get the cars in front of
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: us to where we didn't have to walk back to
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the rigs. So that was really helpful. But it's not
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: a guarantee it was a good trail run. Yeah, it
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: was a good dry run. Yeah, I wish we'd picked
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: up some fresher tracks in there. But if we keep
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: out this, it's gonna work.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And the final last thing we're looking for, like, we're
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: looking for bulls, yeah, that are like at the end
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: of their life.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and they're in a non breeding phase. So
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: we're looking for bachelor solitary bulls or bulls that are
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: in the company of a couple of other bulls outside
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: of the herd, so they're in a non breeding phase, and.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: They might be how old.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I'm anywhere from eight to twelve. Twelve would be the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: extreme upper end, and then sort of an eight nine
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: year old to'd be right in that sweet spot that
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: we want.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: You know, that's very similar to is is like doll sheet.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Oh really yeah. Oh interesting, So that's kind of when
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: they're coming to the end of a.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Lot of dolls sheet Like twelve is like really old yeah.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Ten is kind of the sweet spot.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Nice for a big round, Yeah for sure. Yeah, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: nice old bulls what we're looking for and we're going
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: to find him. He's out here, all right.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: We'll keep colming, we'll keep dropping more things, and we'll
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: cover all kinds different aspects. We're gonna talk to trackers
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: who are the stars of the show, absolute hundred trackers.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I won't talk to any camera guys. It's been proposed.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna do that. We'll think of
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: all kinds of interesting things to talk about. Stay tuned.