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Transcript

LOST Fire + Water · Sass N Sips

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hi and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Tips where every episode we will be discussing and dissecting an episode of Lost in Order.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Today's episode is Fire Plus Water.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: We are your hosts.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Lisa.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Agnes.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: What are you drinking today?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: The best part of waking up is Patron in my cup.
• 0:34
  unknown: Okay.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have something that might be healthy.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's vodka, seltzer, and lime.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Lime.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Citrus is good for the body.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was there.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was pretty.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: They throw parsley in drinks and mints and stuff.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have mint, but okay.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all a little mixologist.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever, it tastes good.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so today's episode is fire plus water.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's a Charlie episode.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Any thoughts before we get into it?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not what I expected.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think I can um I was kind of like, okay, what can you tell me about Charlie?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was nothing about Charlie that left me hanging um before this episode.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, oh, this is interesting.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was pleasantly surprised.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You look pleasantly, you look perplexed and perturbed and more perplexed, no perturbed, just perplexed.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like a lot of Charlie's episodes are kind of similar.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't, I just if you had asked me before, I wouldn't have guessed that you would have liked it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I did.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say I liked it, I just I was surprised.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay, I didn't hate it.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I didn't hate it, um, but I didn't love it either.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, okay, I was like, I was surprised.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, that's interesting.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was one of my favorite shows, episodes.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the problem with Charlie, his character.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't hate him, you don't love him.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: You just kind of like he's there.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So his storyline is just there.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's a lot of the same.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no so I'm like, okay, you're there.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's he I think he has too much air time for a character that's that's not very I don't know, just there.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's very one-sided.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's like there's nothing else going on with him to give him any depth.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's no depth to his character.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, okay, you could I think I would it's like okay, it's three-sided, but it's always the it's like three sides of the same die.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's drugs, music, and his brother.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and it's always you know, one if not all of them.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: This one gave me a little twist that I wasn't expecting, a little insight to, but yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm pretty sure I wonder if some of like the other characters, the other survivors that just kind of like bit parts would have been a better character to be more of a foco character.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I bet Rose would have been more of an interesting character than Charlie.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just curious, like, what could have happened?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, but anyway.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: But now that her husband's back, are we gonna see more of them?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're off topic, but we have to see more of them.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get into the flashback.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love when she does this.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're a lost tease.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, in flashback.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Karen, Liam's wife, has just given birth to their daughter, Megan, who is named after Liam and Charlie's mother.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie is there doting on the newborn, but Liam is not there.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie tells Karen that Liam missed the flight because he blew a tire on the way to the airport.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Karen asks if Liam is okay and Charlie responds, he's great, he's dead.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie returns to his apartment where the kinks are playing He's Evil, which is the same song he was singing to Jin in the 23rd Psalm, and finds Liam laying on the couch, fixing himself.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie encourages Liam to hurry to the hospital as soon as possible to see his new baby, but Liam is still in his own world saying to Charlie, I left you some.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: In another flashback, Drive Shaft is filming an advertisement for Buddy's baby diapers.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: They are lip-syncing to the song You All Everybody, a reworked version of their hit You All Everybody.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: In order to save the band and make some money, Charlie needs Liam to get his act together, but Liam is too out of it and falls through the bars of the big child's crib in which they are filming.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: The ad producer tells Charlie to get rid of Liam, but Charlie says that it's his brother.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: They are all fired.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie tries to reach inside Liam and shake him back to life.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: But even after Charlie and Liam share a moment by singing together Charlie's new song about their comeback together now, about how they can both be saved.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Liam only has one question to Charlie.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Does he have any heroin?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie comes home and finds Liam has sold Charlie's piano to build a new life for his family in Australia.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: He leaves Charlie alone in London, still trying to find an answer.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: What about his family?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um that I have to wait till we get to the current.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think overall the flashback was so sad.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was heart, it was heart-wrenching.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like, dude, you sold your brother's piano.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this is gonna be, and I think once we get to on the island and what what he goes through on the island, the fact that he sold a piano makes it even worse.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: My, you know, you see why it's even worse.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like he sold the dude's piano to fix his life at the expense of his brother's life.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then when his brother is obviously in his position later on, because let's be honest with you, while he was probably a recreational drug user, this situation, my phone picked up my voice.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, hey, what do you want?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this situation probably made him go whoosh, like I'm assuming.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so when he's obviously down the dumps and he has his issues, you just leave him.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: You like fix your life and walk away.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like you like he I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to leave the band to begin with, and you force him to stay in the band.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um just like he's been Charlie, I feel has been kind of and you don't see this as Charlie, like Charlie's personality.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: You see him now, you don't see him as a person that's he's always taken, he's always been the one people decended on.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, it's kinda it's kind of a hard thing to look at.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, wait, Charlie?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, well, holy shit, poor dude.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I get it now.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I get I I dude, I get it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel for you.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, I kind of hate his brother right now.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in one of the last times you see, or maybe it's the first flashback, when you see Charlie go to Australia to talk to his brother, and his brother is all cleaned up, and he's yeah, you know, he's he's he's doing good.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: The result of him selling his brother's piano, yes.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but you don't know any of that stuff yet, so you just see Charlie go to him, and Charlie's like, Come on, man, like we have a chance, and Liam is kind of looking down on him like you know, like you're still in that life, and come on, you gotta you gotta do better.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: But now you see what came before that, and you're just like you dumbass, and you sacrifice Charlie to get yourself there, and you just like so here we are thinking, like, come on, Charlie, like look your look at your brother, you know, like you gotta be more like him.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I remember um I don't know if it was part of the same flashback or flashback before, I think it's the same episode, where you see Charlie like, I want to get out the band.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can see that he was always at the church, like, and his brother's like, no, no, no, let's do it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of got a feeling then that his brother wasn't completely not to blame for Charlie's position.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, his brother had something like his brother was an integral part of Charlie being what he was.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You just didn't know how much.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, dude, you a cocksucker.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do they still say cocksuck?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's old school cocksucker, you're a fucking cocksucker, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And even this whole episode, it's like, well, at least in the flashbacks, you just see over and over again Charlie looking after his older brother, and yeah, Charlie is not perfect, he's obviously got his own drug problem, but he still managed to show up and be there for his sister-in-law.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: He's still trying to write music, he's still trying, in some sense, to follow his dream and and bring his brother up.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he's telling his brother, like, come on, you missed it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, I cover for you, but you gotta get there.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And look, I'm gonna write us a song, and this could be it.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And all to just get shit by Liam.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Was it really his dream?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Was it really?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess we can go.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll touch more on that once you get to the like his on the island and his dreams.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I meant like the dream of being like a rock god.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: But really, was it really his dream dream?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was willing to leave the band before this.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, it's it's not it's not a question that deserves an answer.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those like, huh.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Was it his dream or was it their dream for him?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, oh, it might have been his dream.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It could, it could possibly be his dream.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it makes you go, hmm.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to start.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think we should play like things that make it go, hmm.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is where the song gets played.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Enter track here.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't have that kind of money.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess I'm just gonna have to sing more often then, aren't I?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh no.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so let's let's do on the island.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like how the the wording on the out the synopsis no longer say in the jungle because I can't sing my part.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think it's a conspiracy.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, just wait.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yay! In a dream, young Charlie comes down a flight of stairs in his slippers.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's Christmas morning, and his brother Liam is already hard at work ripping open his presents.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: But while Liam continues to unwrap gift after gift, Charlie finds nothing at all for him.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: That is, until his mother leads him over to a brand new piano.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie is thrilled, but before he can even begin to enjoy the gift, he learns it comes with a price, with his mother wanting him to become successful so he can save them.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie, now fully grown, plays the piano, though it's now on the beach.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Suddenly he hears Aaron's cries from inside it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie tries to open it up but it but can't.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: The incoming tide then tips the piano over onto its back and it begins to drift away, apparently carrying Aaron out to sea.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie wakes up and checks to make sure Claire and Aaron are alright and finds them with Locke.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie tries to get closer to Claire, but Claire asks for some space for now.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: He leaves telling Aaron to take care of his mom.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Hurley approaches Sawyer and Kate and asks Sawyer about the Tailies, Libby in particular.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sawyer asks if Hurley has a love connection growing there.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hurley denies this and leaves, embarrassed.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Kate and Sawyer both see Anna Lucia and Jack coming out of the jungle, talking to each other.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And Sawyer mentions it's the third time he has seen them together.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't make either of them particularly comfortable.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, when Hurley is asking about Libby, so cute.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sawyer tells him, forgot exactly, something about to go do laundry with her.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, he's like, I'm sure you got a load you need to drop in.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was so I was tickled because I was I actually laughed out loud.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: That made me laugh out loud.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, Sawyer.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and then he I think so he could make a good wingman if necessary.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like if like in a bar, he makes a good wingman.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because worst case scenario, he'd be such a douche.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: The chick is like, oh, Hurley.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh-huh.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he calls Libby and he's like, hey, Libby, but then she thinks Hurley called, and he's like, I and then he goes, He what does he call him?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Jacko and Annolulu.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't catch it.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I kept for some reason my hearing went wrong, and I kept rewinding it at that point.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, fuck it, I can't figure it out.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, thank you.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's giving him the$20 tour.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: The she's well he he's giving her the$20 tour.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that he was making sure that he gets the girl.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, look at them.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Sawyer.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's no shame in his game.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: While Charlie plays his guitar on the beach, he hears the faint cries of a baby and follows the sound to the ocean, where he sees Aaron's cradle being tossed on the waves.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: He struggles to swim out and bring Aaron back to shore, where he discovers both Claire and his mother kneeling on the beach in robes.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: An angelic poses from a religious painting.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie is seeing a version of a religious painting from Charlie's childhood home.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: The angelic Claire and Charlie's mother repeat in unison the baby is in danger and that Charlie has to save him.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: A plane crashes in the background, a dove flies out of the sky through the jungle and passed him out to sea.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hurley, approaching him in biblical robes.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie wakes up standing in the ocean holding the baby, realizing it was a vivid dream.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: He tries to explain to Claire and everyone else that he was only trying to save him, but Claire slaps him across the face.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's losing it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Losing it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sawyer gives Hurley a small push toward a relationship with Rib Libby, and the two of them do laundry together in the hatch.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Hurley asks if he knows her from somewhere.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: She distracts him by changing her shirt in his presence.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: She tells him that he stepped on her toe on the plane when he boarded last.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie tries to enlist Loc as an alley, only to discover that Locke suspects Charlie is using heroin again.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie defends himself by saying he and Echo burn the plane and none of the Virgin's Mary statues are left.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Locke says trust is a hard thing to win back, and Claire needs her time.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: After unsuccessfully trying to enlist Locke Charlie goes to Echo, who is marking trees because he likes them.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: That cracked me up, too.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, This is my these are the ones I like.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, these are my fails.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, who could argue with that logic?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Echo suggests that Charlie's dreams mean something and could be a sign that he has to protect the baby.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Echo suggests that the baby be baptized.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie goes to Claire with the idea, but is dismissed by Kate.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Kate was annoying.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just let him speak.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he wasn't doing anything.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was just trying to talk to her.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like she was, I don't know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was a little, I was like, okay, let it go.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's a big girl.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: She's not yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: She's in need of protection.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: If she needed help, she would definitely say she needs help.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Locke stands close by watching Charlie, just like he did in the first days on the island.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was very reminiscent of those first episodes.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: In the jungle, Charlie finds his stash of heroin, but Locke appears.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like you you had to know that was gonna happen.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie claims he came to finish the job and get rid of them all, but Locke doesn't believe him.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: He takes away all of the statues.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think Locke's motivation was?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And take away the drugs?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, to force him to get clean.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think he actually cares about Charlie.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, I gave you the option, you know, I'll let you do this yourself.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like I'm now we're gonna force you to do this.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not like let's just say, like, at this point, let's say there wasn't any, there wasn't no statues.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: That choice that he gave him would have been the end of the situation.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now they're on the island, they got the like the statues are in let's say they get rid of all the the drugs.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: The drugs are gone, they disperse them.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: It is not like he can get more, so he's kind of eventually gonna be forced to clean up anyway.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think he figures like I'm forcing you to clean up.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like we're back in civilization where you can always get more, and me forcing you would be irrelevant.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Him forcing him is kind of well, almost not irrelevant.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it can actually help him.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I say it's I think he's he feels like he's actually helping him.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Claire asks Locke whether she and Aaron can sleep in the hatch, but Locke offers to move his things closer to her tent for a while.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: She asks him about baptism and how much he knows about it.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Locke tells her his view, calling it spiritual insurance, so the baby will go to heaven.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: He says that there is no danger to her or the baby.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie starts a fire near the survivor's camp, attempting to distract Claire from Aaron's crib.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: While Saeed leaves an attempt to put out the fire, Charlie grabs Aaron and runs with him to the ocean to baptize him.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Locke and several other survivors run over after they hear Claire's cries.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Locke tries to convince Charlie to hand him the baby, but Charlie refuses, saying, Aaron's not your responsibility.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where were you when he was born?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Where were you when he was taken?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're not his father, you're not his family.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Locke replies that neither is he.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie gives Loc the baby, who hands him to Claire.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie tries to apologize, but Loc punches him three times in the face.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie stumbles and falls into the water.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone leaves Charlie in disgust.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: The next day, while Jack is nursing Charlie's wounds, Echo agrees to baptize Claire and her baby to make sure they will always be protected together.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Locke puts the seven statues in the gun vault of the hatch, and Loc changes the combination for the door again.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: He carefully arranges the seven statues of the Virgin Mary on a shelf.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie sits on the beach alone and pulls his hoodie over his head.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um maybe it's not this episode.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm thinking of a different episode.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's listen, this is hard to sometimes they just blend in together.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, ooh, wait.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, but um Sawyer tells him, Sawyer tells Charlie, like that you got locked to hit you.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's like that's like Gandhi beating his kids.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you care about someone so much, and you just like you get it together, you kind of want to knock some sense into them.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: He means well.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't doubt that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: He just just doesn't know how to show it in a better way, and then also like people are clouded by his past.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and like on the outside looking in, you just see this guy losing it.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, come on, get it together.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't know how, you know.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And on the other side, he's really trying to save Aaron.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's trying to be good, he's trying to be that protector.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: That support, or whatever I would say protector, because he's never he hasn't been the protector.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's been more of a people dependent on him his whole life in one way or another.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is coming from his sense of failure.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I this is his, you know, he's like, okay, we gotta make a men, I gotta make amends somehow.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this is his way of saving those that he that he does care about.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes I'm thinking I read way too much into these characters in this in the show, but you know.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: But with a show like this, it's hard not to.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so is that my fault for being over analyzing and playing no okay, playing psychoanalysts to TV characters.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end, we see Hoodie Charlie again.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a whole different person.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we haven't seen Hoodie Charlie since the beginning.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he looks different.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of weird.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like he does like he looks that's funny you say that because he doesn't look like the same child there like the at the very beginning uh that he does.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: He looks he looks haggard almost.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like really messed up.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, maybe it's from the fight with Locke or just the distress, whatever, but he looks bad.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: He looks like the way he looked when we first met him.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like throughout the seasons, before like after he became more of that puppy dog Charlie, he wasn't the puppy dog Charlie at first.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was I'm in the band, you know.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the band recovering drug added Charlie looks totally different, and he's back to that.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny you mention it because it didn't.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I knew there was something, but just didn't it didn't come to the front front of my mind.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like in the back there that he looks different.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great actor.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Who's the actor that plays Charlie?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dominic Monahan.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're good, so yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um awesome acting, Dominic.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna get into trivia, but it I'm only gonna read you one because the other ones are kind of like, you know.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: But this is a it's not a spoiler, but it's a little bit of foreshadowing.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I don't tell you, you wouldn't you wouldn't catch it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so wait.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I used can you give me a hint of the foreshadowing that way I can see if I can catch it?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway you can not tell.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, so when the when they're doing the buddies commercial in the flashback?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's a sign on like one of the fences or the buildings or something.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's what the sign says.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So wait, is this something I should have caught?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or no.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would have seen it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: If I would have seen it, it would have probably later on.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you did see it, but you probably but you don't know that it's important yet.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm gonna go okay, okay.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go back and double check that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: That way I can be in my memory bag.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is exciting.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Something to look at.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's the start of something to come.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh okay.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, that's really it for trivia.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's just it's a Charlie episode.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's just not a lot, you know.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have again, we have like this big religious theme.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Religion play it's it hit.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would I noted that, that it's always in there, and it's not even subtle.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's no, in this one, it was very overt.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even think it's subtle anymore.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I find that season two is not even subtle anymore at all.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's really just in your face.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not saying that's the bad thing.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying they're just like really it's it's taking a new turn from season one and season two.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just talk about the title then.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Fire plus water.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, I kind of like going with the religious theme.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I kind of equate fire to hell and water to baptism.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: But like that's the closest that I can get to anything that makes it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: You got a hundred closer than I could have.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Except for like literal fire and water because Charlie sets a fire and then he brings the baby to the water.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't Okay, there's that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of like, I didn't get it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, yeah, it could be very literal.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would just, it was just like, okay, interesting title.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I get it, but yeah, it was kind of the baptism thing, kind of obvious there.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I should have thought of that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's the some titles are kind of I don't want to say obvious, some of them obvious, and some of them are just that sometimes the titles in of themselves, just the title kind of like, ooh, that seems interesting.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of want to try to figure it out.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's what it was.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: So just like Was this one of them where you saw fire plus water and you thought, ooh, I wonder what that is.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, for some reason I was like, you know what?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, the fact that you gave me the hint that you told me that it was a Charlie episode, and I think maybe subconsciously that kind of left me kind of like indifferent towards the title in itself, too.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, Charlie, fire, water, whatever.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see what this is about.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that might have been it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I can see that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Some titles, um, I feel like they give it away who the who the episode is about.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like Born to Run.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like or like the next one, the long con.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Gee, I wonder.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did it and I was excited.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was I couldn't wait to see this episode.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: But um I don't but don't know who it's about.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, I know, you can't tell, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Any any new thoughts on Charlie after seeing another one of his episodes?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um like Shannon, I feel for him also.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: You get a little bit deeper, and she's like, damn, we got fucked.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: I also think for some reason, I feel like this is the end, like his time is coming near.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: You think so?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe not.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just have a you're like, I'm gonna hedge my bets.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, but I for some reason I think his time is coming near.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that he has maybe just tired of seeing him.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that this island is is a challenge for him in a way that is not for others because he's dealing also with drug um withdrawal, and he's being tested with the drugs being present.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right because it's like it's like wait, I'm on a deserted island is still fucking drugs behind like following me.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's like dude, you're like universe, like what the hell?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I kicked it once and that was hard, and then look, here's more on a deserted island, like and then he's all places you think you can easily get clean, it's not it's he worked so hard to be part of the group and to get in with Claire, yeah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's like you know, because that it seems like that's all he wants, you know.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Even when you saw the episode with the I forgot her name, the one with the with the copiers, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and he took the job because he obviously cared for her.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: He wants it the yeah, right, and then the same sort of sim situation with Claire was like he wants to be loved, he wants it it seems like he just wants to be needed and he wants to be a provider and and take care of someone, and this was his opportunity, it was like instant family, you know, just add water, but literally just literally put him on the island and boom, instant family, just add plane crash, but and then it's like it's being swept out from under him again, again, it's being taken away because of drugs, and not even because he did drugs, or at least so he says, Right, but it's hard for him, he's losing everything, he feels like.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a question.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is just me being silly.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: What if he thinks he wants people to depend on him, but he kind of uses drugs not to have to be dependent on?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, yeah, I want this, this is what I really want, but it's not what he really wants.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's what he thinks he should want.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the drugs is like his, I don't want to say past digress is not the right phrase, but I'm trying, but it's his way of not having to be not having to want to have that goal.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did I say that right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I understand.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think I understand what you mean.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just a little DA process happening.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Devil's advocate, not the other one, not the other DA.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Devil's advocate.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, Charlie.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there was something else that I just thought of and then I forgot.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Or I hate when that happens.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: You remember for the next week's episode?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna just that's what I am.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: How many times did I do that?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, wait a minute.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: You were saying about being I don't know.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Damn.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I hate when that happens.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was to say that he was using drugs not to be the response of growing up that he thinks he should be.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it was right before that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is I guess a short episode.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think Charlie episodes end up being short episodes.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Charlie.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's where that expression came from.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Charlie.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he was named because of the episode because of the expression.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is so frustrating.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Ugh.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: So next week's episode is a Sawyer episode.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, Sawyer.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Anything you're hoping for?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I want to see Sawyer B Sawyer.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I want all right.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see more of the bad guy Sawyer.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I just want to see more cons.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see how good he is.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the last um Sawyer flashback, um, when he was tripped into killing the guy that owed.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the last Sawyer flashback we've had?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the last one I remember.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: He bumped into Jack's father.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the last one I remember.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like maybe there might be another one.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the last one.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was a while ago, wasn't it?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's so interesting in of himself.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes the flashback isn't needed.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: He makes his I think that this is only gonna be the second Sawyer.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, flashback, and it if you don't count the season finale.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: The season finale we saw a little bit of him in the police station.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, that doesn't count, so everybody.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's yeah, really.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like but we'd got so much out of week no, there has to be another one.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we know so much about him.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Only in two.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll I'll look it up right now.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I know the my all I can remember, like his flashbacks are you get bits and pieces of how he worked, but I wanna see him in action, if that makes any kind of sense.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let me see.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so confidence man was a Sawyer episode.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Outlaws.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Which one was Outlaws?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't a Kate one?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, this Outlaws was the one where we saw with the boar when when like his mother, his father shot himself, and that was so con that the one that we saw with that he got tricked to kill the guy.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was Con Man.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it was because Con didn't touch about that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like the last con Con Man was the one where you saw um uh he was he was doing the deal and then he walked away at the end because the kid came in the room.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Really, right.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: So but still so this is only a third one, but still there's only a third one, yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is but I think he's so interesting to begin with.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you're like, okay.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, very interesting.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that'll do it for this episode, Fire Plus Water.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Stay tuned next time for the long con.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And in the meantime, if you'd like to support the show, we can be found at patreon.com slash saspod.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: We have a bunch of different tiers, so you can find the one that works best for you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you could also support this show by giving us a rating, reviewing, or subscribing.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can follow us on social media and feel free to reach out to us using our email or our phone number.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Always drink responsibly.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And until next time, I'm Lisa.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Agnes.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we are out of here.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Peace.