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CLASSIC: The Weird Life of George Washington, Part 2 · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, fellow Ridiculous Historians, We're back. We couldn't leave you
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: without a dope podcast. The step two this is step two,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Step two.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: This is uh.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: This is the second part of our exploration of the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: very weird life of George Washington. UH. And Nola was
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: remembering this.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Our pal, none other than Casey Pegram is on here
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: with with our returning friend of the show, Christopher Hasiotis,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and I think, dude, I think this is one of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the ones where after we recorded this, we both went
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to Casey and like desperately sought his validation.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Oh love that guy.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We're talking about George Washington's weird hair routine. We're all O,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: it has to come up, I has to we I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: think we also talk about the fact that there was,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: as you said our intro to part one, there was
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: a real man behind the myth here, and he had
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of medical issues that plagued him throughout his
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: life that were frankly bizarre, like bizzarre.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Why don't we hear all about it? Let's roll the tape.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories a production of iHeartRadio. Don't call it a comeback,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Friends and Neighbors, or actually, go ahead, and please do so,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: because this is part two of our continuing series on
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: weird George Washington Facts. Welcome to the show. My name
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: is Ben, my name is Noel, joined with our super
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram and our returning a special guest. It's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: an immense privilege to have you on the show anytime.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Christopher hassiotis what a delight to be here. Thank you,
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: and Ben, you've got your groove back, my friend. You're glowing,
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: You're absolutely glowing. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: It's all the hemp, very versatile crop, very versatile crop.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Yes. Is that shirt you're wearing woven from hemp?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes it is, And as are my shoes and my.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Coat undergarments. Is that what you're gonna say, undergarments?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, traded in the Mythral. I did I.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Finally upgraded from mithral to Hemp. So this is, as
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: we mentioned, part two of a two part series. If
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: you have not checked out part one of our George
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Washington Facts, it's okay, don't stress out.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just hit pause, you know, and shake your fists
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: at the podcast gods that list the shows in first
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: chronological order, and just scroll back and listen to the
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: show from two days ago.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a bummer when they listen them in
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: that reverse order.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I believe that the iHeartRadio app you can
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: swap things around and point them in the other direction
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: and start from start from earlier, and go tours later.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: That's crazy talk. Who would ever do that?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: What a time to be alive.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: The industry is a morphing thing.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So we set up the basic gist of George Washington's
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: life in our earlier episode, and now, what do you say, gentlemen,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: should we dive straight into the weird stuff?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a whole bunch of strangeness to get into.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I say, let's dive down that Washington hole.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: Was it the muddy hole? The muddy hole, the muddy hole,
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: Washington's money. Let's dive down Washington's muddy Hole.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It sounds like the worst ride at the presidential theme
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: park of my dreams.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's the one where there's never a line.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Lincoln's spooky log Cabin. I think, man if I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: had a lot of extra time, we could just come
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: up with the rides and for every single president that's
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Weird glitching robot, Lincoln's spewing sparks.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: In the Ford theater.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: The taft bathtub you've got to escape taft tub, taft tub.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: That's full of old beans.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Full of old beings. Yeah, and then we get we
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: get weird because we would have the most fun. I
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: think with more obscure presidents like Pierce.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Do you think he's the most obscure?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Uh? He You know that's a matter of personal opinion,
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  Speaker 1: isn't it.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm asking you maybe personally.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're asking me personally.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: We're here, just you and me, and uh, well, I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: guess no one in Casey and millions and millions of listeners.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who is the most obscure president? I have great
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: fascination with those lists that come out every so often
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: of ranking presidents from best to worst. And they usually
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: don't do every single president. They usually do maybe the
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  Speaker 1: top five best ones and the bottom five worst ones.
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  Speaker 1: And I gotta say the bottom five are usually the
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  Speaker 1: same couple of dudes.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got the obscure ones. You've got your peer
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  Speaker 2: cre Millard Fillmore. You know William McKinley, who was very
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: popular at the time but just kind of was forgotten,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: even though he was killed and was involved in a
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: lot of different things. So one who's constantly at the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: bottom of the list is Andrew Johnson. He's the one
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  Speaker 2: who kind of after Lincoln's asassination, he took over, but
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  Speaker 2: he didn't manage the situation well. He let the country fester.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Things were not handled well. Reconstruction was not handled in
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a way that maybe looked towards future generations. But I
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: think a lot of Americans would be hard pressed to
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: name Andrew Johnson. And I gotta tell you, I think
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: it's because his name's a little generic.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: It is it is. It's a real uh, it's real
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  Speaker 1: John Doe.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just not as memorable if he had some
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: sort of villainous name, or if he had some sort
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: of name. But you know, I mean, maybe it's better
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  Speaker 2: that his name is a little more kind of milk
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: toast and banal, because honestly, that's how some of the
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: things that fall apart in politics do. So it's just
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  Speaker 2: sort of through no specific malice, through no ill will,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: it just sort of the banality of things kind of
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: things fall apart.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: All right, So we're talking about bad presidents, where's our
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: boy g. Dub fallows, that's true. This is an episode
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  Speaker 5: about George Washington.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, I do want to point out, did you know
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  Speaker 1: that Andrew Johnson never went to school?
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Is this sort of like I never learned to read
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: and I somehow managed to become president. Turns out I was.
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  Speaker 5: Bad at it.
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  Speaker 1: I think the closest he got to a formal education
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: was when his wife taught him the basics like basic
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: mathematics and writing and so.
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  Speaker 2: So he is one of the worst regarded presidents. So
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  Speaker 2: maybe we can draw some conclusions that an intellectual curiosity
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: and education, these are things that are important for a president.
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  Speaker 2: That the desire to learn, the admission that maybe other
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: people have more information than you and that you should
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: rely on them for information like that, that's a thing
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  Speaker 2: a president should espouse to aspire to.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's solid and I don't think that's
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: a controversial point at all. We know that George Washington
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: had no problem learning from other people, and he took
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: advice pretty well. Segue, well done, expertly played, my friends.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I know that means you have to go first, especially
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the part where you say.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Segwe I just see you guys know Ben's doing this
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: really sweet move where he's drawing his forefinger and thumb
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: together from them touching each other to a part in
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: the same cadence as he's saying, segwe it's a slow
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: parting of the Red Sea.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: We actually made this a two part episode because we
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to spend some time really focusing on that hand gesture.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: And really trying to up our vamp game.
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: And whenever Christopher Haciotis joins us in the tank here,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: it's just magic.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Sparks fly.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but well that's true. Sparks did fly earlier. Noel,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: you were electrocuted slightly by your headphones.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: He flew ready to make a saying that's my fault.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: You do have a bit of an electric person saying
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not not saying that.
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  Speaker 1: Is this is this part of us? Are you still
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: a little weirded out by the mic situation? Is this
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: part of a revenge scheme?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Now? What happens is I'm wearing wool socks and before
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: you guys came in here, I was just running back
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  Speaker 2: and forwards on the rock. Yeah.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Classic, we just call that. A hasiotis at the office.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: You got zapped, so I will go first. This is
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a little bit stranger. This is not a social activity
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of George Washington, nor is it a political activity. This
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: is a medical fact about the guy. He was one
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  Speaker 1: of the sickliest presidents in US history. Over the span
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  Speaker 1: of his life, he suffered from diphtheria, tuberculosis, smallpox, dysentery, malaria,
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  Speaker 1: kintsi which was tonslitis, carbuncle, pneumonia, and epigletitis. In fact,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: he was so afflicted that people started speculating this may
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: have played a role in his infertility, because Washington did
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  Speaker 1: not have issue, as they would say in the world
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: of aristocracy. It's well known that he had no children
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: of his own. In two thousand and seven, a man
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: named John k Amery at the University of Washington School
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  Speaker 1: of Medicine proposed that it wasn't for lack of trying. Instead,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: he said, Washington may quite possibly have been infertile, and
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Armory list a number of possible reasons for this infertility,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: including an infection caused by tuberculosis. We have a quote
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: here wherein he says classic studies of soldiers with tuberculosis
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: ploisi during World War Two demonstrated that two thirds developed
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: chronic organ tuberculosis within five years of their initial infection.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Infection of the epididymus or testes is seen in twenty
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  Speaker 1: percent of these individuals and frequently results in infertility.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Dude, I just made a horrible mistake. I googled images
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  Speaker 4: of carbuncles.
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  Speaker 3: Not good.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing you are not seeing the image of the
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: cute little monster from the Final Fantasy Video Games?
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Is that his name?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: There was one called carbuncle?
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Interesting?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Please please Ridiculous Historians correct me if I'm wrong.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: These are disgusting, puss filled boils that cover one's body
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: when it afflicted with them.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: It's not a carbohydrate loving uncle.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Nope, No, this is something we will not be posting
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  Speaker 2: photos of on Ridiculous Histories.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Will that be too hasty?
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm not even a regular host here, but
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: can I put this to a vote? Do I get
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a full vote? I'm gonna take I'm taking a triple vote,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and I'm voting no photos of carbuncles on Ridiculous Historians
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: three against two.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I support that.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I see the gentleman to my left.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: I you know, but I'm just saying, if you you know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: if you want to gross yourself out.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Just google carbuncles if.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: You would have a really disturbing the more, you know,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a moment with the star flying over your head as
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: you throw up a little bit in your mouth. Carbuncle.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Do you think the fact that George Washington didn't have
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: children kind of cemented his legacy? You know, that he
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: didn't have kids who could kind of tarnish the Washington. Yeah,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: he was he was alone. You set things in motion
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and he stepped back, and that was it.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Quite possibly. I mean, that's that's a very good point,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I would say.
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  Speaker 4: And it's so rare for people to do that at
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: that level, because I mean, they have all these idiot
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: sons that beyond screw it all up for him.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: You're not talking about Ben Stiller, are you.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: I'm talking about that. One of the things that I
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: know you hate is nepotism.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: The Adams Is.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: The Bushes, the Roosevelts.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Look, well, those guys are like distant cousins. You can't
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: really I mean they came from a big, big family.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I know. But name recognition is still key now I will.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I totally see your point there, Christopher. Just like a
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Justice Kennedy is not related to the former president Kennedy. True, right,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: So there shouldn't be any law barring them from occupying
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: positions of power. You know what I mean. I'm just
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: saying that it's very strange to explain to someone from
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: another country or another culture that this is purportedly a maritimeocracy,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and then say in the same breath that despite being
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: a meritocracy, through some amazing coincidence, the most qualified people
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: for a job happened to be related to each other
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: pretty often. But that just further underlines the point that
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you make with Washington. Perhaps he was a safe figure
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to mythologize. While he did not have children, one thing
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: that he did have was a non consensual workforce.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: That's true. One of the things I wanted to talk
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: about was Washington's slaveholding. It's not really a happy topic
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: because we're talking about enslaved people, but it's a fact
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: of life at the time, especially for landowners, and Washington
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: had control over hundreds of slaves, more than three hundred people.
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  Speaker 2: Washington gets a lot of credit for quote unquote freeing
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  Speaker 2: his slaves in his will. That's one thing that people
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: who defend the practice of enslaving others when it comes
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to Washington, who is rightly revered as one of the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: fathers of our country and who put a lot of
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: great systems in motion, but that doesn't change the fact
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: that he ran this giant plantation, and a plantation of
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: that size in what's sort of the South at the
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: time was run essentially on the free labor of enslaved Africans,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and at the time of his death, Washington owned more
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: than three hundred slaves. He inherited his first slave at eleven,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: when his father passed away. So you had this young man,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: George Washington, who was born into a life of maintaining
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: control over other human beings. When he passed in seventeen
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: ninety nine, he had one hundred and twenty three slaves
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  Speaker 2: who were legally his, and then there were one hundred
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: and ninety three that he also controlled that were known
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: as dower slaves. And what that means is they were
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: technically legally owned by his wife, Martha. Now Martha married
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: George when she was twenty five. She was a widow
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: at the time, and she had taken on slaves both
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: from her own family and from her ex husband who
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: passed away. So it's really really interesting and it can
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: be kind of fascinating to look at the legal structure
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of slavery until you remember that we're talking about actual
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: human beings. But the way that slavery and the legality
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: of who owns what was structured in the seventeen hundreds
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: is it's just to me, it's so odd that you
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: can be talking about a human being in this way.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: So the one hundred and twenty three slaves that Washington
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: himself had, they were matched with one hundred and ninety three,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: which were legally Martha's but as a married couple, were
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: legally controlled by George. And there's all this strange legally
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is that when George or Martha dies, certain segments of
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the Washingtonian slaves are passed to a grandchild or a cousin,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: and it all depends on this sort of weird patriarchal
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: but then also matrilineal lignage of ownership of another person.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But there is one enslaved person that I want to
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: talk about, and that's Ony Judge. Now, Ony Judge is
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: one of the most well known enslaved people involved in
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: in Washington, and that's because she escaped. She was able
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: to tell her story to abolitionist newspapers at the time
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: and got her account out there. Now, what makes this
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: such a strange bit of history is that Ony Judge
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: was a slave that Washington pursued until the end of
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: his life. She got away. And if you listened to
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: the episode from last week, Noel talked about how Washington's
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: thoughts on slavery were somewhat liberal and they evolved over time.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And that's true. He did grow to oppose the idea
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of slavery, the idea of holding other people in bondage,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: but he never freed his own slaves. He still kept
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: them enslaved. He used their free labor, and he built
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: his fortune and his empire, whether it was a large
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: fortune or not, on the labor of others. So let's
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: talk about Onnie Judge. She was born in seventeen seventy three.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: She probably came into the Washington family when she was
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: around ten or eleven and was purchased as a playmate,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: it's thought for one of the family members. Now, Oni
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: has her own interesting history. Her father was a British businessman.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: He was white, but he never acknowledged paternity, and so
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: she was able to be sold into slavery, and that's
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: where she comes in Now. In seventeen ninety six, Oni
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: learned that she was going to be gifted to Washington's granddaughter.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And when we talk about the granddaughters of Washington, basically
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: we're talking about the children of Martha Washington and kind
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: of her her folks, because as we just mentioned, George
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: himself never had any kids. And so in seventeen ninety six,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: only learns that she's going to be gifted presented as
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: a wedding present to these new newlyweds. So she escapes
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: in May of seventeen ninety six, she flies the coup.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: For a couple of years, she's free, but a couple
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: years later she's spotted in New Hampshire, and this whole
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: time the Washington family is after her. They've lost property.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Despite the fact that Washington had mixed feelings about slavery,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: it seems like from the historical record that a lot
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: of his family, including Martha, did not have mixed feelings,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: and they felt pretty strongly that enslaved Africans were their
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: property and were owned wholly by them. So they took
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: out ads in local papers advertising a reward for the
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: return of Onnie, and a couple years later she's spotted
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: in New Hampshire, and Washington reaches out to a friend
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: of his in New Hampshire and asks him to abduct
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Onie to return this person back to Mount Vernon, And
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: so you know, he's encouraging kidnapping. At the time, he
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: probably saw it as a return of property. But the
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: thing about Washington and his slaveholding is it wasn't as straightforward.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: It wasn't wholly villainous as it's easy to paint, but
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: it's also wasn't wholly by the books. Washington was pretty
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: eager to skirt some of the laws when it came
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: to slavery. When he was president, he was living in Philadelphia,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: which at the time was the capital of the United States.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: In Pennsylvania had certain laws for slaveholders and citizens of
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania because at the time different states had their own citizenship.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Washington argued, though, that he was a citizen of Virginia
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: so that he didn't have to abide by some of
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: the slavery laws of Pennsylvania. He also would rotate his
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: slaves between the home in Pennsylvania and Virginia for periods
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: of time of less than six months, just moving them
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: around like property so that they would not qualify or
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: meet certain criteria under Pennsylvania law. So this is a
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: man who saw financial assets, who pursued them as they escaped,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: and until his death he tried to get Onie back. Thankfully,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Onie was never returned. She was captured at one point,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and she tried to negotiate with Washington. She said she
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: sent message saying, look, I will willingly be returned to
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: enslavement with your family if you promise that upon your
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: death and the death of Martha, I am free. And
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Washington didn't even negotiate. He said, I'm not even going
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to consider these demands because doing so would set a
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: bad precedent, and this is not you don't negotiate with property. Essentially. Wow, yeah,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: and I wish there were a happy ending to this story.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: There's also not a sad ending to the story. Oni.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Eventually she stayed in New Hampshire. She was not returned
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: to the Washington family. She married a sailor named Jack Stains.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Over their married life, they had three kids, who then
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: had their own children. But the fact of the matter
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: is that throughout the rest of her life, even though
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: she had escaped enslavement by the Washington family, she lived
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: as a fugitive under the Fugitive Slave Act, which Washington
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: signed into law, and until her dying day in eighteen
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: forty eight, she lived as a as a fugitive. There
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: was always, always, always a chance that she could be
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: taken back to Virginia.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: It's terrifying way to live. I can't imagine.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Ah.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: So, no, not a happy ending at all.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Huh No. And it's you know, I don't I don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: want to tarnish the legacy of a great American, but
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: we also don't need to look back and over mythologize someone.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's more accurate to look at history as
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: it was, to look at the man as he was,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: and to acknowledge that this was part of a complicated
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: life and he had complicated feelings. And as America has
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: evolved and continues to evolve, so too did Washington, just
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: just not at the pace that that it would be
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: nice to acknowledge. You know again, people say that he
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: freed all of his slaves in his will. The fact
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: of the matter is that after he died, of those
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: more than three hundred slaves that he had control over,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: only one, a man named William Lee, was set free.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Martha dragged things out. For a lot of the other
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: hundreds of slaves, they were still enslaved for decades. Eventually
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: some of them gained their freedom. But again we're talking five, ten,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: fifteen years. So despite George Washington's will and his desire
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to set his slaves free, which I might add, is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: after he's left this earth and after he has to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: deal with the ramifications of what that means, he's still
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: throughout his life benefited from their free labor. It still
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: took years and years and years for the people that
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: he enslaved to find their freedom.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And we would be remiss if we did not point
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: out these facts. You know, I think it is It
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: is an unpleasant and disturbing part of the story. But
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I believe that same disturbing aspect is what makes it
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: crucial that we not just us on the show, not
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: just us listening, but we as a country remember what happened.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: I've got to say, Christopher, I feel that I feel
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it would be weird for us to end on such
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: a very serious, somber note. What what do you think
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: you're you're the guest today, what do you think about
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: us exploring one more strange George Washington fact.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean again, it's a man contains multitudes,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot to George Washington, and he's one
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: of the foundational characters of our country and there's so
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: much to know about him. So yeah, like, let's turn
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to Noel. No, let's can you can you dig us
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: out of this slavery hole?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, muddy hole?
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, only our original idea of the muddy hole
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: is much more whimsical.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not so, you know now I'm not as
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: on board as it was with finding this guy a
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: cool middle name.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: No, no, So we all know the classic Washingtonian look,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: the profile, you know, with the appears to be a
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: powdered wig of some sort.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: That's what they all wore at the time.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Peruke, Well done, Christ except for Benjamin Franklin.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin just had kind of a broad top and
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: a bit of a greasy ponytail in the back. The
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: ponytail was the height of fashion at the time. But
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: here's the thing, and again, that profile. You you probably
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: know it well from those dollar bills, you were least thing.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: That's not a profile and dollar bill, it's a profile.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: In the quarter. But on the dollar bill.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: It's it's a three quarter kind of and then you
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: know you've got your creepy pyramid eye. But that's a
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: whole other thing.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: We did a whole episode on that on our other
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: show Stuff they Don't want you to Know, and actually
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: took it on the road, so we know the creepy
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: pyramid eye. Well, the eye of Horace, I believe, right, Ben,
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: that's one interpretation. That's right, that's true. Listening to the
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: show to to find out more. But no, it turns
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: out that that weird peruke looking do that Washington was
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: supporting was not, in fact a wig. Those were his
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: natural hairs, and he went to great lengths to quaff
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: them as such. Just well, no, it didn't grow like
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: that he had that would be nice. He had quite
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: a regiment when it came to his keeping up his appearances,
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: so let me get me run through some of them
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: real quick. That his hair actually was more of kind
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: of a reddish brown. And here's the thing too, about
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: that particular haird of the time, it was a really
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: big deal. People liked to show as much forehead as possible.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: That was like a sign of strength or something.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Intelligence.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Intelligence you had.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: Like you know, a big, big, broad forehead. So in
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: order to do that, the reason they bound their hair
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: back in those ponytails was because it literally pulled, you know,
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: tightened it up and pulled the.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Brow up so you'd have more brow on display.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And the thought of the Klingons.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: Exactly or else they would have loved face lifts. Can
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: you imagine, Yeah, Founding father facelifts. That's a reality show
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: waiting to happen right there, at least a spoof reality.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Sounds like a website too, it's Founding fathers facelifts dot.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Com and hard to say ten times fast fizz.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: But his hair was quite in fashion. It was kind
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: of a tough hairdo right.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Very much so. Yeah, and it wasn't a wig.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: But he powdered it as in the same way that
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: these perukes would be powdered. But there's the crazy part
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: about it. In order to do this, you know, this stuff,
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: it would be a couple of different potential types of powder.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Could be anything from talcum powder to other kind of
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: crushed up earth minerals that were a little more expensive,
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: which is more likely what he would have used.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Would they have done chalk? You think shock is.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Another possibility the bones of the British.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: That would be cool.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: I have nothing to confirm or deny that possibly asbestos.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But here's the thing.
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: When he was doing it, in order to keep it
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: from you know, going up his quite sizable schnause and
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: you know, down his throat, he wore like a weird
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: cone on his face, like a like a rolled up
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: paper cone that he would hold over his face while
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: applying this powder. And he applied the power plaster of
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: Paris was another option route.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: What happened if it rained?
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: Oh man, there's so many questions. What we're going to
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: get to that. So in order to apply this stuff,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: he would use almost like a makeup brush made of
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: silk strips that were bound together in a bunch. So
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: he would dip this into the powder and then just
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: douse himself with it, you know, and when his face
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: would be covered up, and he'd also be wearing something
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: called a powder robe, and that would keep it off
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: of his clothes.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like you need a whole powder room. Otherwise,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Christopher huss powder everywhere, and I guess that is a thing.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: So you're thinking of the powder room more like Dexter's
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: kill room. It's just covered in plow rumors by friend.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Oh man, we're we're on a roll here.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: But what a mess, right, an absolute mess.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: You know, you're totally right, my friend, because even though
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: he was wearing his powder robe, what was to keep
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: this powder from just dusting every surface, you know, in
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: the vicinity.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And he's wearing this weird sort of it looks almost
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: like a plague mask thing to cover his heath exactly.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: So it's a very odd situation to walk in on,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: and he's doing it to himself, presumably, that's everything I've
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: read says he would this was his morning routine.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So he would powder.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: The hell out of his hair that was already dulled
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: up in this dew, and then he would curl the
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: sides up into these kind of winglets, this little like
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: a little kind of they'd stick out, you know, like
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: little ridges, a little shelves on the side. In order
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: to do that, he'd use palmade, you know, get it
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: all nice and greasy, and it would hold its shape. So, yeah,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: he got his hair so saturated with his powder that
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: it didn't look like it was just kind of dusted.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, it was just white as the driven snow.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing too.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: This is a question that was raised in this fantastic
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: article that had really great company illustrations by Wendy McNaughton
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: for National Geographic, that has these really great cartoons showing
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: him what it must have looked like for him to
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: be doing this.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I cannot recommend this highly enough.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: It's called George Washington's Oh So Mysterious Hair.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: No will you? Will you post that on the ridiculous
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Historian space.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Under the carbuncles? That's a callback.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: It's a callback, and that is going to remain a
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: carbuncle free zone if I have anything to do with it.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Ben. But here's the thing.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: A question that she raises in this article is, well,
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: how the hell did he keep this off his clothes?
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: In all of these portraits of him, he looks so pristine,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: and you would think that this stuff would just be
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: flaking off.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Everything flaking off. I mean, you're wearing these tight clothes
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: made of wool in with the American South, are you not.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I would be sweating buckets and just have white powder
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: dripping down down.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it does seem like it would be very gross.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: And there is one portrait by Adolph Ulrich Wertmueller, who
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: depicts him with some kind of little dandruffy flakes on
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: one show on one lapel like that of humanity, Touch
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: of humanity. So there you go. He had a weird
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: hair routine.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So and the lesson is that the portraits are not
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: always a accurate representation of what someone might really look like. Well,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: that's true.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: And at the end of the day, I mean, you're
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: sort of beholden to the person that's paying you to
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: paint their portrait.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So listeners, please do not run into the National Portrait
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Gallery and throw a little flex of white paint on
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: anything that you think would be more historically accurate.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: And there we have it. George Washington, first President of
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the United States, whiskey, tycoon, dabbler and hemp, a freemason,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: extraordinary slave owner, and a man with very, very strict
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: priorities regarding his hair.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: It's very true.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: No middle name, no middle name.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: What else? What were some of the little trivia bits
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: from the top.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Well, he's got his you know, his terrific title in
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the military that he will forever and always be Supreme Commander.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: General of the Armies of the United States. Did you
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: mention the carbuncles that he's crusted with, but.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Krusty, sickly man.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: They're not clear on how how inundated he was with carbuncles.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: We can only hope that it was.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: If these Google images have anything to say about it,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: it was a real nightmare.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I gotta say, Ben, you mentioned him as one of
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: the sickliest presidents and listed out a litany of maladies
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: he'd been inflicted with. But if he survived all those things,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I'd say he's pretty strong, and maybe we should wrap
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: up by talking about these somewhat ridiculous way in which
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: he died. He did have all these maladies, but in
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: seventeen ninety nine, back in December, what historians think really
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: killed him is a doctor medical malpractice. Yes, a doctor
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: who basically overbled him, drained him too much.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: And we already know that blood letting was a very
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: stupid remedy.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And he was he was too blood let Yeah, yeah,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: that's right.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: We have the specifics here too. It was a guy
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: named all Ben Rawlins who all in all, after four
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: rounds of blood letting, removed something like five pints of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: blood from the president.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: That doctor Albin.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, I'm glad that blood letting is
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: not a common practice in medical centers today.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Do you think he got in trouble?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a it's a good question because
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I think there have been some other presidents who died
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: as a result of well intentioned medical intervention.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Well, that's why they call it practicing medicine.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: That's why they call it practicing medicine. Indeed, And on
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: that note, we hope you enjoyed our two part series,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: A Weird George Washington Facts, which does count technically until
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: we do another one as our Washington episode in a
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: bizarre series of circumstances. Christopher, thank you so much for
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: dropping by. It is always an immense pleasure.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to count myself among the two of you
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: as practicing podcasters.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: We do our best to keep our podcasting chops sharp,
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: well practiced.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, and thank you to our super producer,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. Thank you to Alexilliams who composed our track.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: Thank you to Gabe, our delightful research associate, and of course,
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: thank you to our wonderful guest Christopher Hasciotis and dear
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: friend for as always lighting up the room, sparking up
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: our lives, giving Ben his groove back after you took
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: it away.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Truly, truly, truly, this is something that sparks joy.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Oh boy. Well, if you want to continue the conversation,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: if you want to check out some of the things
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: that we have mentioned other than carbuncles, you can visit
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: us on the internet. We're on Instagram, We're on Facebook,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: We're on Twitter, that's the other one. You can find
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: our favorite partner show your fellow Ridiculous Historians on our
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Facebook community page Ridiculous Historians. If you want to see
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: some pictures of very strange misadventures, I will be having shortly.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Follow me on Instagram. I'm at Ben Bowen.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: And i am at Embryonic Insider.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Find me over at Haciotis Hassiotis.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: Christopher will be having some incredible adventures in podcasting coming
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: down the pikes in the near future.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I will keep you all super updated.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Please do. We'll see you next time, folks.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.