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Parenting Advice for the Digital Age · The Infographics Show Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: You know that constant hum the questions, the worries maybe
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: sometimes yeah, even outright panic about parenting in this super
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: digital world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think we all feel that if it
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: feels like every day there's a new headline, right, another
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: worry about kids and screens. Absolutely, and it changes so
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: fast it's it's tough for parents to know what's reliable
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: info versus just you know, opinions flying around exactly.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: So today we're doing a deep dive. We're going into
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: some really insightful research back stuff on parenting in the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: digital age. We're pulling directly from Professor Jacquelinessi's brilliant work,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: her substack newsletter Techno Sapiens, fantastic resource totally. Our mission
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: here is basically to pull out the most important nuggets,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the key insights from her work and give you a
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: shortcut kind of to getting well informed on this really
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: quick topic. Yeah, so let's get into it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Okay. So a really key thing NeSSI stresses right away
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: is grounding all this advice in understanding.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Adolescents itself right the teen years.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, roughly ages ten to twenty. We often think of
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: it as just difficult, challenging.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, storm and stress idea exactly.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: But Nessi's research and she builds on others like the
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: UCLA Center for the Developing Adolescent. She reframes it. She says,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: these years are actually this unique time of like super
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: fast growth, learning development. It's a huge opportunity actually for
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: adults to help shape who teens become.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: That's such an important shift in perspective, not just getting
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: through it, but seeing the opportunity right.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: It's about working with their developmental needs, not you know,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: fighting against them.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And she lays out six key scientific needs for teens.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a really useful framework for parents.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: It really is. So first up is exploration and risk taking.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Teen brains are just wired for excitement, for novelty. So
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the idea is we should encourage healthy.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Risks, like what kind of healthy risks?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Well, trying a new sport, maybe taking a tougher class
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: at school, or you know, using their voice online or
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: offline to stand up for something they believe in. Things
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: that feel a bit challenging but are ultimately constructive.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, what's next?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: That leads nicely into the need for meaning and purpose
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: through contribution. As teens develop more empathy, they become really
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: capable of helping others. And this can be simple stuff
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: like supporting a friend who's having a hard time maybe online,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: doing chores at home without being nagged, or getting involved
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: in say student government or volunteering. It helps them feel
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: like they matter right.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Like their actions have impact. That makes sense.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Number three decision making and emotional regulation. And I mean
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: we all know teens feel things so strongly.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the highs are high, the lows are low totally.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Whether it's excitement over some new trend or just intense
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: frustration about something feeling unfair. So NeSSI really highlights teaching
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: them to recognize and manage those big feeling that equipping
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: them with healthy cooping skills, things like distraction techniques, mindfulness,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: maybe just listening to music, self care routines, and crucially,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: we have to model that stuff ourselves.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always the hard part, isn't it?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: What else?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Then there's support from parents and other caring adults. You know,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: even when they act super independent, which they do, they
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: still absolutely need warmth, our interest, and you know, appropriate structure.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: That means clear rules, boundaries, and parents basically knowing what's.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Going on in their lives monitoring, yeah, right.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And having other supportive adults coaches, teachers, mentors. That's also
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: really vital for them.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Two more fifth is developing values, goals, and identity. They're
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: actively figuring out who do I want to be? That's
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: a big question, it is, And they're influenced by everything peers, family, community,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: even random TikTok trends. You know. So they need some
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: freedom to experiment, but also our support as they explore
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: different parts of their identity racial, ethnic, gender, sexual identity,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: helping them do that safely.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Right. And the last one.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Finally, respect and social status. Teen brains become like hyper
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: aware of social standing during these years. Ah, So providing
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: healthy ways for them to gain respect, maybe their school achievements, extracurriculars,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: or just by treating them like compivent people whose opinions
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: actually matter. That's incredibly important for their self worth.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so understanding those six needs really does change
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: how you might approach things. But how does this translate
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: to the everyday screen time arguments?
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Well NeSSI says, it starts by rethinking what we mean
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: by discipline Okay, not just punishment exactly. She defines it
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: as your entire system for teaching kids acceptable behavior, and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: it's built on three things. Warmth, structure, and effective consequences.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's break that down. Warmth.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Warmth is pretty straightforward. It's showing a f support actively
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: building that positive, loving connection.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: So what does that look like for little kids?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's dedicated special playtime. For older kids, maybe a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: movie night or I don't know, even making a silly
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: TikTok together. Right, these moments she calls them deposits in
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: the bank. They build trust.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I like that, okay. And structure.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Structure means having consistent, predictable limits, rules and expectations and
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: being really clear and specific.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: So not just less screen time right, more.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Like, Okay, you can play Minecraft for thirty minutes on weekdays,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: but only after homework's done and it has to be
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: before eight pm. Something concrete. And for older kids, she suggests,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: actually involving them and setting the rules makes them feel
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: more ownership. It's kind of firm but flexible. You need
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: to know your absolute deal breakers versus the things you'd
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: prefer they didn't do, but might negotiate on.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, Warmth, structure and consequences, Yeah, this ties into that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: learning theory right exactly.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Operant conditioning sounds technical, but the basic idea going way
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: back is super simple. Behaviors fall by a good outcome
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: are more likely to happen again, and.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: One's followed by a bad outcome less likely.
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  Speaker 2: Precisely understanding this is key to guiding kids' behavior online
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  Speaker 2: or off.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: So Nissi breaks down the types of consequences.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are four main types. First is positive reinforcement,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: adding something good, like maybe giving some extra screen time
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: because they finish their chores early without being asked.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, rewarding good behavior.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Then negative reinforcement taking away something bad or annoying, like
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: maybe lifting a screen time restriction for a bit because
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: they clean their room proactively. You're removing a negative rule, right.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Then there's punishment. Yeah.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Positive punishment is adding something bad, So if they posted
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: something inappropriate, you might add a new rule, like they
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: now need permission before posting.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Anything on TikTok adding a restriction, and.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Negative punishment is taking away something good. This is probably
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: the most common one parents use, like taking away their
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: phone for the rest of the day because they broke
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: a screen time rule.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, makes sense, But NeSSI points out a common mistake.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, a huge one. Sometimes our attention, even if we're
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: scolding or lecturing them, can actually act as positive reinforcement.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: For younger kids, they crave the attention, good or bad.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So yelling might accidentally encourage the behavior it can.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also giving in when they escalate, like having
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: a huge tantrum over the iPad and you finally just
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: give it back to make it stop. That reinforces the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: tantrum itself.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Ugh, been there, we all have.
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  Speaker 2: And related to that, she talks about something called the
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: extinction burst.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: What now?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Extinction burst? It means when you start consistently ignoring an
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: unwanted behavior that used to get attention, like whining, expect
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: it to get worse for a bit before it gets better.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Worse great, I know, but it's actually a sign it
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: might be working. They're trying harder to get the old reaction.
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  Speaker 2: Knowing this helps you stay consistent and not give in
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: right when it feels toughest.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's actually really helpful to know. Explains a lot
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: about those after screen meltdowns too, doesn't it. Why do
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: kids flip out so much when it's time to turn
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: things off?
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  Speaker 2: Nessi's research points to a few key reasons. I mean,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: first off, it's just hard to stop doing fun things
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  Speaker 2: right screens light up the brain's reward centers.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: True.
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  Speaker 2: Also, kids might have temporary problems with executive functions. Switching
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: tasks is hard. Sometimes they might be imitating bad behavior
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: they saw on a show Oh interesting, or maybe stopping
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: interrupts their progress in a game, which is super frustrating.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Screen time might be replacing need physical activity. Sometimes it's
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: just overstimulation, or they have these big feelings excitement, frustration
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  Speaker 2: that don't just switch off.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, So knowing why
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: helps us figure out what to do exactly.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: She offers proactive strategies like experiment with different types of
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: shows or games, try different ways of stopping, give those
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: five minute or two minute warnings, talk to them about
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the transition, Ask them, hey, why is it sometimes to
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: turn off the iPad? Help them build that self awareness.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Else, make a plan together beforehand, like Okay, we'll watch
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: two episodes then it's off. Think about timing. Maybe don't
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: have screen time right before something demanding. Maybe plan a
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: call activity after screens and the big one. Be consistent.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Stick to the limits even with whining you can validate
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: their feelings. I know you're disappointed. It's time to stop,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: but hold the line right.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Consistency is key. Oh and turn off AutoPlay.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Seriously, if meltdowns are happening all the time, maybe you
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: do need to reduce the overall amount of screen time.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, That consistency point feels really important, which kind of
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: leads us to some specific digital challenges, right, like what
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: about the really little kids ages five and under? The
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: guideline seems super strict.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: They are pretty strict the AAP and who say basically
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: no screens under eighteen months except video chat, then eighteen
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: twenty four month only co viewing educational stuff, and two
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: five years an hour or less of high quality programming.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: But the reality is often different, very different.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: NeSSI points out that on average, two to four year
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: olds are getting something like two point five hours a day.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Her take, which I find really helpful, is that the
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: specific hour cutoffs can be a bit arbitrary. The real
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: question is is screen time interfering with the absolute essentials
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: for healthy development, which are sleep, physical activity, and crucially
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: that back and forth human interaction.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: She calls it serve and return serve and return like tennis.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Kind of imagine a baby babbles or points, the parent
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: serves back by responding, naming the objects, making eye contact.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: That responsive interaction is fundamental for brain development. Too much
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: passive screen time can get in the way.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Of that got it. So it's about balance and what
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: screen time might be displacing? What about what they watch?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Does it have to be educational?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Nessie says, developmentally appropriate is key. It doesn't always have
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: to be explicitly educational. But those shows often do have
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: positive messages. She looks for four qualities and good shows.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: They should be active, prompting responses, engaging, holding attention without
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: being overwhelming, meaningful, connecting to their lives, and socially interactive,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: modeling positive interactions.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Like Daniel Tiger or Sesame.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Street Exactly Daniel Tiger, Sesame Street, Dora Super Why those
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: kinds of shows often hit those marks?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: And do kids actually learn from screens at that age?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Well NeSSI highlights the video deficit. Basically, kids under three
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: learn way less effectively from a two D screen compared
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: to a real live person.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Why is that a.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Screen can't respond contingently? Offer different angles provide that rich
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: multi sensory input like a real person or object can
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Once kids are three or older, some learning can happen
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: from screens, but it's significantly boosted if you coview watch
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: with them and talk about it.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, and for stopping those screen time battles with little ones.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Any cook tips, Yeah, similar ideas, clear expectations before screens
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: go on. Offer simple choices, turn it off now or
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: in two minutes, Give simple reasons, time for bath, use
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: visual timers, give warnings, be consistent afterwards, and validate feelings
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: while holding the boundary firm.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Great practical advice. Okay, let's shift gears to something that
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: causes a lot of anxiety. Dopamine the whole screen addiction
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: fear Right.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: The narrative is often that screens cause these dangerous dopamine surges,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: just like drugs leading to addiction.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So what's the reality. According to Nessi's research, what is
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: dopamine doing?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: She provides a really important clarification. Dopamine isn't just a
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: pleasure chemical. It's a neurotransmitter involved in lots of things movement, sleep, learning,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: But its main role here is motivation. It drives us
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: to seek out rewarding things.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: So screens are rewarding.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, like many enjoyable activities, dopamine gets released, and social
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: media platforms especially are designed very cleverly features like endless scrolling,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: unpredictable likes that creates what scientists call variable reward schedules.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: It leverages that dopamine response to keep us engaged, keep
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: us coming back.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: But is it addiction like drug addiction?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: N Y is clear for most people know it's not comparable, problematic,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe even addictive like us can happen for a small
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: percentage of kids, but currently there's no official diagnosis like
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: social media addiction in the main diagnostic manuals.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the takeaway for parents.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Don't panic about dopamine specifically, focus instead on promoting moderation,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: ensuring screens aren't crowding out other rewarding activities, playing outside,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: hanging out with friends, in person, hobbies, all that stuff
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: aim for balance.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: That's a much calmer perspective. We talk video games. They're everywhere, right,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: especially for.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Boys, almost universal, like ninety seven percent of teen boys
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: eighty three percent of teen girls play. And yeah, boys
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: average way more time over two hours a day compared
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to under an hour for girls.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Are they inherently bad. What does the research say?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Generally, NeSSI finds little evidence of inherent harm from gaming itself.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: In fact, there are some cognitive benefits linked to certain
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: types of games, things like better working memory, faster reaction times,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: improved attention skills, and socially, they can be a really
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: important social space, particularly for boys, a way to connect, cooperate,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: compete with friends.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: But the big question is always when is it too much?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and NeSSI brings it back to that key question,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: what are the games replacing?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: If gaming is consistently pushing out sleep, homework, physical activity,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: face to face socializing, that's when you need to be concerned.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: What about actual gaming disorder? Is that a real thing?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: It is?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It's characterized by things like losing control over gaming, giving
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: it increasing priority over everything else, and continuing to game
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: despite negative consequences. It affects maybe one to nine percent
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of teens. If you're seriously worried about that pattern, seeking
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: professional advice is the way to go.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, And the elephant in the room violent video games?
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Are they dangerous? The debate is so heated it is.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: NeSSI presents a nuanced view based on the bulk of
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: research studies. Do show small short term in increases in
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: aggressive thoughts, feelings, and maybe behaviors right after playing.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, small and short term right, But.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: There's very little evidence linking violent gameplaying to long term
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: serious violence or criminal behavior. That connection is often overstated
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: in the media.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So how should parents handle violent games? Then?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: NeSSI gives five key pieces of advice. One know the research.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Understand the nuance the short term versus long term findings.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Two know your child, how's their temperament? Who are their friends?
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Three know the games, actually play with them or watch
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: check ratings on sites like common Sense Media. Four talk
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: about it. Discuss your family values, your concerns about the content.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: And five set flexible limits. Use that collaborative autonomy supportive approach.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Involve them in setting boundaries around what they play and
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: when that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Seems really balanced. Okay. One more big debate area phones
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: in schools. Why are schools considering bands?
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Well, the reasons are pretty clear. Worries about distraction, interfering
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: with learning, negative impacts on social skills like less face
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: to face interaction, cyberbullying concerns, and general worries about mental health.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And what does the research say are phones actually distracting
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: The research is pretty solid on that smartphones are distracting.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Even just having one nearby, even if it's off, can
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: impact attention and performance on cognitive tasks.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so they're distracting, But do bands actually work? Does
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: banning phones improve things?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: That's where the evidence gets a bit more mixed. According
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: to NeSSI, some studies, like one in England, found small
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: but significant improvements in test scores after bands, especially for
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: lower achieving students.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, so some positive effect there.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: But other studies in places like Norway and Sweden found
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: minimal or no impact overall, or maybe effects only for
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: certain student groups.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: So it's not as simple band's work or bands don't
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: work exactly.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: NeSSI suggests that limiting phone use during the school day
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: makes logical sense to reduce distraction, but the details really matter.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: How is the ban enforced? Do teachers have support? It's
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: not a magic bullet, right.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: A phone band isn't going to solve the entire youth
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: mental health crisis on its own.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Precisely, there are many factors involved in student well being
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: at school, and phones are just one piece of a
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: much larger puzzle.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is all incredibly helpful. Context. Let's pivot now
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to some really practical tools. Yeah, the number one question
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I hear is when is the right age to get
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: a kid a smartphone?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And Assa's answer, maybe frustratingly for some, is there's no
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: single right age.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah. I figured her general.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Advice, based on the evidence of potential interference with social
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: skills and academics, especially for younger teens, is to wait
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: if you can. Delaying is often beneficial.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: But how do you know if your kid is ready?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: She offers a great framework called the four rs to
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: help parents think it through.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, what are they responsibility?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Does your child generally show responsibility in other areas of
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: their life? Do they understand what it means to be
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: responsible with a device? Rules? Do they understand the rules
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you'll set and why those rules exist risks? Do they
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: have a basic understanding of potential online risks like privacy
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: issues or cyberbullying? And reasons? What are their actual reasons
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: for wanting a phone? Is it genuine need or just
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: peer pressure?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: It's a really useful checklist. What if you decide they're
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: not ready for a smartphone? Where you just want.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Alternatives NeSSI mentioned several options there are basic phones. Yeah,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: flip phones still exist.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: There are also these minimalist kid friendly smartphones like gab,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Pinwheel or Bark phones which have limited functionality. And smart
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: watches can be a good intermediate step too. Allowing calls
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: and texts with approved contacts, but no internet browser or apps.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, good options. So let's say they have the phone. Now.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Boundaries and parental controls. NeSSI has some specific rules she recommends, Yes.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Some really actionable ones. First and foremost, no phone in
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the bedroom, especially at night. Sleep is just.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Too important, absolutely critical.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Second, establish at least one other phone free zone or time,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: maybe family meals, maybe car rides. Third, require permission before
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: downloading new apps or making in app purchases, avoid surprise bills. Fourth,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: talk constantly about using good judgment, being kind online, choosing
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: positive content, thinking before they post. And fifth a simple one.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: They need to respond to texts or calls from parents
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: reasonably promptly.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: That seems fair. What about the technical side, parental controls?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Are they effective?
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: NeSSI has a great analogy. Parental controls are like a gate,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: not a wall.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: A gate not a wall. I like that.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're useful for slowing kids down creating barriers making
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: it harder to access inappropriate stuff or spend too much time.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: But they're not fool proof. Determined kids can often find.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Workarounds, so don't just set them and forget them.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Definitely not. The crucial thing NeSSI emphasizes is that setting
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: controls needs to be an ongoing conversation. Sit down with
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: your child, Explain why you're setting certain limits, listen to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: their perspective, and adjust the control together as they get
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: older and show more responsibility.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Can you give some examples of the kinds of controls available?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Sure? On Instagram, for instance, teen accounts default to private now,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and there are restriptions on who can message them. Parents
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: can use the supervision tools to see who they follow
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: and who follows them, who they message, not the content,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: and set daily time limits.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, what about TikTok.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: TikTok has different settings for younger teams thirteen to fifteen
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: versus older ones sixteen seventeen, regarding things like direct messages
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: and comments. They also have family pairing, which lets a
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: parent link their account to managed settings, including screen time
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and Snapchat.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Seems like a tricky one.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Snapchat also has settings to limit contact from strangers. For teens.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Their Family Center lets parents see their child's friends list
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: and who they've messaged recently. Again not the content, but
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: just the contacts, which gives some oversight. YouTube offers YouTube
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Kids for the youngest. For older kids, there are supervised
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: accounts parents can manage, allowing them to choose content levels,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: block channels, turnoff search and seawatch history. There's also a
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: general restricted mode filter, and.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Then just the phone's operating system itself.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Right. Both Android with Google Family Link and iOS with
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Apple Family Sharing and screen Time have built in tools.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: You can set time limits for specific apps or overall usage,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: approve app downloads, track location, and filter web content.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Many tools, lots of tools, But the.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Key, as NeSSI stresses again and again, is that the
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: technology is only part of it. The conversations, the warmth,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the structure, that's the foundation.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Wow, we have really covered a huge amount of ground today.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: It's incredible how much insight is packed into Professor Nessi's
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: technosapiens work, from understanding how teens tick to these really
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: concrete strategies for screens.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it really underscores that idea of evidence based parenting.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Nessie often talks about it like a three legged stool. Yeah,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the research, like everything we've discussed today, that's one crucial leg,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: But the other two legs are just as important. Your
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: own unique expertise as a parent who knows your child best,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: and your child's individual characteristics, their temperament, their strengths.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Their challenges. So the science gives us direction, but we
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: still need to use our judgment exactly.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: The research provides the map, maybe, but you are the
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: one driving, adapting to the specific terrain of your family
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: and your child. Your informed judgment makes it work.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: That's a really empowering way to think about it. It
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: leads to a final thought maybe for everyone.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Listening, Yeah, perhaps something to mull over. In this world
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: where digital tech just keeps changing so fast, how can
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: you shift from just reacting to the latest crisis or headline.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: How can you proactively take these kinds of evidence based
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: insights we've talked about and use them to really shape
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: a digital environment at home that doesn't just help your
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: kids survive, but actually helps them thrive.