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TOO MUCH VIDEO GAME · Critical Error

• 0:00
  Jake, what is your favorite part about
• 0:02
  Pokemon Piccopia?
• 0:04
  >> I think when you look at the video game
• 0:06
  elements, they're extremely video gamey
• 0:08
  in how they are representative of video
• 0:10
  games and other video games that
• 0:12
  inspired this video game. So, it really
• 0:14
  comes together as a gamey video game.
• 0:17
  >> Sounds like a video game.
• 0:19
  >> Video game.
• 0:20
  >> A critical error is an error which the
• 0:22
  OS cannot reasonably ignore.
• 0:25
  Jake Steinberg is a streamer, writer,
• 0:27
  and certified yapper. complimentary
• 0:29
  Peter Hunt spit tech is a YouTuber,
• 0:33
  journalist, and certified yapper.
• 0:35
  Derogatory. These are the things they
• 0:37
  cannot reasonably ignore. A video gamey
• 0:40
  ass video game. How many times have we
• 0:42
  seen this? How many times have we come
• 0:44
  across this? Not just kind of socially
• 0:46
  online, but in reviews. in getting ready
• 0:49
  for this episode in preparing a lot of
• 0:51
  uh previews for the upcoming Frag Mata
• 0:54
  video game came out which is kind of
• 0:56
  going to be our focus in terms of
• 0:59
  centering this discussion because we can
• 1:02
  find a preview for example from Xbox
• 1:04
  Wire that says Pragmata loves being a
• 1:08
  video game but this is of course not
• 1:11
  exclusive to this preview or this game
• 1:13
  we can go to last year's Ghost of Yote
• 1:16
  find a review posted on the gamer.com
• 1:19
  the first sentence of which is Ghost of
• 1:21
  Yote is a video game. Imagine that.
• 1:26
  >> Right. So, um this is obviously a
• 1:30
  declarative statement. It is
• 1:32
  communicating meaning. It means
• 1:33
  something to somebody. I think the
• 1:35
  listeners of this podcast are probably
• 1:38
  involved enough in games media and games
• 1:40
  writing to have come across this phrase
• 1:42
  in some way, shape, or form uh over
• 1:45
  time. So, what are we doing here? What
• 1:47
  is the value of calling a video game a
• 1:50
  video game? Where does this come from?
• 1:51
  What is this exposing about us?
• 1:53
  >> I think I think it's a it's a short
• 1:54
  hand. Um I think all it takes is a video
• 1:58
  game to um not be really interested in
• 2:02
  creating a like sensible cohesive
• 2:06
  narrative
• 2:08
  >> for someone to be like this this thing
• 2:11
  this is a video game ass video game.
• 2:13
  Like that's such a common refrain that
• 2:14
  you hear. Like I think about something
• 2:16
  like Metroid Prime 4. That is a game
• 2:19
  that does not make a whole lot of
• 2:21
  logical narrative sense. Why would the
• 2:24
  this civilization operate all of their
• 2:27
  machinery using morph ball technology?
• 2:30
  Well, Peter, because it's a video game.
• 2:32
  You know what I'm saying? Like anytime
• 2:34
  there is some sort of like uh uh
• 2:37
  discrepancy between the narrative and
• 2:39
  the mechanics, I feel like you hear that
• 2:41
  a lot. And so something like Pragmata,
• 2:44
  which is a game that is uh first and
• 2:46
  foremost interested in using its
• 2:50
  mechanics
• 2:51
  as the the central like hook of the of
• 2:54
  of like marketing and stuff like that.
• 2:57
  That is when I think you're going to
• 2:59
  start running into this phrase a lot
• 3:01
  because then also it is trying to have
• 3:04
  this sort of like narrative experience
• 3:05
  that doesn't necessarily like 100% mesh.
• 3:07
  Does that kind of make sense with what
• 3:09
  they're doing?
• 3:10
  >> Yeah, of course. because it is less I
• 3:13
  think about describing the game and it
• 3:16
  is more about establishing a frame
• 3:18
  through which you can understand the
• 3:21
  work. Right?
• 3:22
  >> So it's not a claim that opens the work
• 3:25
  up. It is one that kind of settles it
• 3:28
  into recognition and that recognition of
• 3:30
  what the work is is kind of treated as
• 3:33
  sufficient. I like that use of um
• 3:34
  Metroid Prime 4 just because there there
• 3:37
  is this um how would you say like the
• 3:40
  arrangement of the level sometimes to me
• 3:42
  it feels like oh this is a video I am
• 3:45
  playing through a video game level. It
• 3:47
  doesn't clock in my head as something
• 3:49
  that could exist outside of the context
• 3:51
  of a video game.
• 3:52
  >> So we actually we talked about this in
• 3:53
  our bonus show on patreon.com/critical
• 3:55
  error um which you can sign up for uh
• 3:58
  for just $5 a month and get our
• 4:00
  additional weekly bonus episodes. Um, we
• 4:02
  talked about Splatoon 3 and the campaign
• 4:04
  for that and how like playing that
• 4:06
  sometimes feels like you're like looking
• 4:07
  at like uh unfinished like developer
• 4:12
  like footage almost or like unfinished
• 4:14
  like developer levels because it like
• 4:16
  those levels exist in like a blank void
• 4:18
  like like there's no sort of like
• 4:20
  framing or like like set dressing for
• 4:22
  these things. And so you could never
• 4:24
  look at those sorts of levels. You can
• 4:26
  never look at what Pragmata is doing and
• 4:28
  be like, "Oh, this isn't a video game."
• 4:31
  Because it exists exclusively in these
• 4:33
  in these sections to be like a uh uh to
• 4:38
  serve the mechanics for the most part.
• 4:41
  The weird thing about and and I'm I'm
• 4:43
  not debating that, right? Like I'm not
• 4:45
  debating that that's how those games
• 4:47
  feel. However, the interesting thing is
• 4:51
  when you say, "Oh, this is a game that
• 4:53
  loves being a video game. This is a game
• 4:54
  that's this is a video game ass video
• 4:56
  game. What are you saying about other
• 4:58
  video games that don't do this? Are are
• 4:59
  there any games that are less video game
• 5:01
  than Pragmata? I I think the answer is
• 5:04
  like no, right? It's a funny question,
• 5:07
  right? Because I think it what makes us
• 5:10
  say this is a video gamey video game
• 5:13
  parenthesis positive as opposed to this
• 5:16
  is maybe taking me out of the
• 5:18
  experience. This is divorcing me from
• 5:20
  the context of the game because I know
• 5:22
  I'm thinking about a game like Donkey
• 5:24
  Kong Country Tropical Freeze, which is a
• 5:28
  2D platformer, which I would say
• 5:30
  inherently kind of is a video gamey
• 5:33
  video game,
• 5:33
  >> right? Cuz it's this thing where it's
• 5:34
  like, these bananas are floating. What?
• 5:38
  These coins are flo Wait a second. He's
• 5:41
  breaking bricks. You know what I mean?
• 5:43
  Like
• 5:44
  >> even the fact even just the act of of
• 5:47
  going through a 2D platforming level at
• 5:50
  all
• 5:51
  >> is only move straight or backwards. You
• 5:54
  can't what?
• 5:56
  >> But a uh but a compliment of that game,
• 5:58
  if I understand it correctly, is that
• 6:00
  the way that those levels are drawn and
• 6:02
  the way that the platforms are all
• 6:04
  attached to something and that it's a
• 6:06
  it's uh connected to the surrounding
• 6:09
  ecosystem and it has this kind of like
• 6:11
  very thoughtout design to the way things
• 6:14
  are arranged in front of you is I think
• 6:18
  an effort to maybe assue the video
• 6:21
  gameiness of it. it is to kind of exist
• 6:24
  within the world that the game is
• 6:25
  proposing.
• 6:26
  >> Yeah.
• 6:26
  >> Um which I understand. So I think that
• 6:29
  >> on the alternative end when we that's a
• 6:32
  game that though we can we can we can
• 6:34
  understand it and is obviously very
• 6:36
  video gamey. We would never use this
• 6:38
  shortorthhand to say that about Donkey
• 6:39
  Kong Country Tropical Freeze. So what
• 6:41
  are we describing when we say that? And
• 6:43
  I think I think this is what it is.
• 6:45
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
• 6:46
  >> So there is in the the I love this so
• 6:50
  much. In the believer magazine, one of
• 6:52
  my favorite um ongoing columns is by one
• 6:55
  of my favorite authors, Nick Hornby. And
• 6:58
  Nick Hornby has this column called what
• 7:00
  I've been reading. Every month he wrote
• 7:02
  about all the books he bought and all
• 7:04
  the books he read. And he just talked
• 7:06
  about them. And in one of these essay,
• 7:08
  I've I've actually got a collection of
• 7:12
  >> Nick Hornby. Is that you? Is that you in
• 7:14
  the background this whole time?
• 7:15
  >> I've got a collection of this. Yeah. So,
• 7:16
  this is this is 10 years of him doing
• 7:18
  this in this in this tome here. Um, and
• 7:22
  I could go through and find it right now
• 7:24
  if I had the time, but as you can see,
• 7:26
  this is quite a thick
• 7:29
  >> You said a tome, and I think that's
• 7:30
  that's appropriate.
• 7:31
  >> So, but um allow me to paraphrase. So,
• 7:34
  he's reading this book and he finds that
• 7:37
  the degree of pain that the female
• 7:40
  protagonist has to go through is so
• 7:43
  obviously to communicate literary
• 7:45
  meaning. They're trying to say something
• 7:48
  about the amount of pain that all
• 7:50
  mothers are kind of forced to bear by
• 7:53
  society. And he talks about reading the
• 7:55
  scene in this book where the woman's
• 7:58
  nipple is forcibly sliced off. And he
• 8:01
  goes,
• 8:01
  >> "Yeah." And he's like and he's he peels
• 8:03
  off the page and he goes, "I just I just
• 8:05
  couldn't really stand it anymore. It was
• 8:07
  it was the author's thumb was pressing
• 8:11
  in on me trying to get me to um a
• 8:15
  particular kind of thematic meaning. And
• 8:17
  I think that the what I think what he's
• 8:20
  describing there is the book being too
• 8:24
  bookie. I think it's him saying I feel
• 8:28
  that this is a story being told and the
• 8:31
  author's thumb is pressing the story
• 8:34
  into me. It's forcing uh a kind of read
• 8:37
  of this book. I'm supposed to make a
• 8:38
  connection between a woman's breast and
• 8:41
  motherhood and that, you know, and that
• 8:43
  being caused harm and all this stuff
• 8:44
  that's supposed to make me read the game
• 8:45
  a specific way. So, all of this to say,
• 8:49
  I think that the author's thumb, the
• 8:51
  presence of the author's thumb is almost
• 8:54
  part of what makes a video game video
• 8:56
  gamey because it is this implementation
• 9:00
  of a video game artist's tools that are
• 9:04
  very like uh discreet and obvious and
• 9:07
  blunt. It is this it is this like um in
• 9:10
  Pragmata for example the kind of way you
• 9:13
  go about combat doing this like weird
• 9:15
  little puzzle thing you know you're
• 9:16
  familiar with it it's like it's like oh
• 9:18
  this is so kind of divorced from the
• 9:22
  livedin experience of
• 9:25
  >> this woman hacking these these creatures
• 9:28
  and instead the way it appears is by the
• 9:30
  creators kind of pressing in to make
• 9:33
  this thing a video game. So, I think
• 9:35
  that's that's what it is where like
• 9:36
  Donkey Kong uh Tropical Freeze is not
• 9:40
  necessarily saying like looking at you
• 9:42
  and being like you got to take this [ __ ]
• 9:43
  seriously. Like there's like some like
• 9:44
  there's some stuff going on here. But
• 9:46
  something like Pragmata does have that
• 9:50
  more like uh invested narrative where
• 9:53
  it's trying to be like you got to like
• 9:54
  look at New York City's been [ __ ]
• 9:56
  obliterated. This is crazy. And also now
• 9:58
  you're hacking these robots and it's
• 10:00
  like well okay there there's some
• 10:02
  dissonance here, right? it doesn't like
• 10:04
  100% line up and and like you know you
• 10:06
  mentioned uh Ghost of Yote at the top of
• 10:08
  the episode and like that is a video
• 10:10
  game that does a similar thing where
• 10:12
  it's like no you got to take this
• 10:13
  seriously. All right, people are getting
• 10:14
  killed. There's like we're we're here
• 10:15
  for revenge but also make sure that you
• 10:18
  climb to the top of the mountain so that
• 10:20
  you can see all the spots on your map or
• 10:23
  whatever happens in that that game you
• 10:24
  know and it's this interesting sort of
• 10:26
  dissonance there. I think when people uh
• 10:28
  write about a game being feeling like a
• 10:31
  video game, I think what they're
• 10:32
  actually identifying is that dissonance
• 10:34
  and and the fact that a game doesn't
• 10:36
  necessarily uh have any interest in
• 10:38
  creating something that is 100% totally
• 10:41
  cohesive across the board, which it
• 10:43
  doesn't necessarily make it's not a bad
• 10:44
  thing necessarily. Um it can be a bad
• 10:47
  thing if depending on the way it's all
• 10:49
  framed. Like I I I've I made that video
• 10:51
  about Metroid Prime 4's like world
• 10:53
  building and how it's really bizarre and
• 10:55
  weird and like doesn't quite mesh with
• 10:56
  everything because to me it is a big
• 10:58
  enough barrier where the game is looking
• 11:00
  at you and being like this is you got to
• 11:02
  be invested in all this stuff and this
• 11:04
  is actually really important.
• 11:06
  >> Sure.
• 11:06
  >> But then you get something like Pragmata
• 11:08
  which I haven't played of course to all
• 11:09
  of it but it's like I don't think that
• 11:11
  it's necessarily doing the same thing.
• 11:15
  >> Right. And I wonder too just about the
• 11:18
  kind of subtle implication of the
• 11:20
  conversation that we're having here
• 11:22
  where recognizing the video gamey
• 11:26
  elements and and saying like I I think
• 11:31
  ultimately admitting that there is stuff
• 11:33
  here that maybe doesn't fit within the
• 11:37
  context of the world or the context of
• 11:39
  understanding that is baked into the
• 11:40
  player of what we are supposed to be
• 11:42
  doing, what we're supposed to be
• 11:43
  feeling. the kind of admitting that but
• 11:46
  also saying it's good or
• 11:48
  >> so that's what it is where it's it's
• 11:50
  like I think it is um a lack of maybe
• 11:53
  language or uh uh I think it's just
• 11:56
  shorthand for not being able to express
• 11:59
  why that dissonance is there and why it
• 12:01
  works.
• 12:02
  >> Ooh, okay. Because when you talk about
• 12:05
  this kind of lack of explanation, I
• 12:08
  think that it's it's a it's a funny
• 12:11
  thing, right? Because I think that how
• 12:13
  much analysis is really happening in
• 12:15
  calling something video gamey because if
• 12:17
  I tell you that this this game features
• 12:21
  yellow paint to climb.
• 12:23
  >> Yeah. Right.
• 12:24
  >> Uh red barrels and if I shoot the red
• 12:26
  barrels they explode.
• 12:28
  >> Mhm.
• 12:28
  >> Um in being named are we
• 12:33
  recognizing convention or are we
• 12:35
  transforming these conventions into
• 12:38
  virtue? And I don't think that the game
• 12:40
  is immediately good because we recognize
• 12:42
  what it contains as gamelike. But I also
• 12:45
  think that in this case of calling a
• 12:47
  video game video gamey, what we're doing
• 12:49
  is saying that recognition is the same
• 12:50
  thing as understanding, which it's not.
• 12:52
  >> Right. It's just saying like, "No, I
• 12:54
  know what this is." You're like, "But
• 12:56
  what, you know, more? I need more."
• 12:58
  >> Exactly. And to point at a mechanic and
• 13:00
  say, "This is a video game thing uh is
• 13:03
  not to explain what it does or how it
• 13:05
  functions or why it matters. It's simply
• 13:07
  to affirm that it belongs in the work
• 13:12
  because as you may have put together,
• 13:15
  these are in fact video games. And I
• 13:18
  think it's there's just an interesting
• 13:20
  like,
• 13:22
  >> hey, in real life, have you ever seen a
• 13:23
  red barrel that in your mind you're
• 13:25
  like, well, if I shot that, I'm sure it
• 13:26
  would explode.
• 13:27
  >> Right. Right. Right. Right.
• 13:28
  >> That doesn't exist in real life. Right.
• 13:30
  Like,
• 13:31
  >> but for whatever reason, it's in a
• 13:33
  million video games or, you know, like
• 13:35
  you said, the yellow paint. I've never
• 13:37
  seen anything painted yellow and been
• 13:38
  like, "Wait a second, that's supposed to
• 13:39
  draw my eyes so that I make sure that I
• 13:40
  go here." Cuz that's it's it's level
• 13:42
  design, right? It is it is video game
• 13:44
  design language. And when I think you
• 13:46
  are saying, "Hey, this is a video game
• 13:48
  ass video game or however you want to
• 13:50
  phrase it." Um, it's exactly what you're
• 13:52
  saying. It's just like identifying like
• 13:53
  I know that video game design uh uh
• 13:58
  frameworks are present like okay,
• 14:01
  what else? Like is it used well? Does
• 14:05
  does the fact that it leans into those
• 14:08
  um more unrealistic aspects of video
• 14:11
  game design language does that make it
• 14:15
  good? Does that like how do those
• 14:17
  mechanics work? How do those systems
• 14:18
  work? Does it all work together or what?
• 14:21
  There's just no analysis going on. It's
• 14:23
  just recognition.
• 14:25
  >> And I think that the recognition can be
• 14:28
  deployed positively or negatively.
• 14:31
  Agree. And it can feel almost like
• 14:33
  random about when we do this. And I
• 14:35
  think what it really is is that you have
• 14:38
  um this happens all the time. I feel
• 14:41
  like fun is always used as evidence of
• 14:45
  success and often times used as evidence
• 14:48
  of uh coherence, right? Because it's
• 14:50
  like, well, I had fun playing this. So
• 14:52
  the enjoyment is proof that a work is
• 14:55
  holding together, right? And I think um
• 14:58
  the assumption is is that something like
• 15:00
  cohesion must be present if it was
• 15:02
  capable of
• 15:05
  making me experience fun. But I but I do
• 15:08
  think that this is like a this is like a
• 15:10
  category error just because enjoyment to
• 15:12
  me is a local effect whereas cohesion is
• 15:18
  almost like a global relationship,
• 15:20
  right? because um
• 15:22
  >> it's it's this
• 15:25
  the
• 15:26
  cuz a game can produce pleasure in
• 15:30
  discreet moments without those moments
• 15:33
  accumulating into anything meaningful.
• 15:36
  >> Yeah.
• 15:36
  >> It's that like age-old thing of that's
• 15:38
  been talked to death about like is a
• 15:39
  video game supposed to be fun? And it's
• 15:42
  like well it depends on what the game is
• 15:44
  going for and to me fun is uh
• 15:48
  irrelevant. I'm looking for a cohesive
• 15:50
  experience. A cohesive artistic
• 15:51
  experience is what I'm looking for out
• 15:53
  of a video game. And many video games
• 15:55
  are going for fun. Many games are going
• 15:58
  for fun. And sometimes even games that
• 15:59
  are um not going for fun have fun
• 16:02
  elements. I think that's kind of what
• 16:03
  you mentioned here. Like I think about a
• 16:04
  game like Returnal. Returnal is meant to
• 16:06
  be punishing. Returnal is meant to have
• 16:08
  you have those moments where you are
• 16:09
  like are you [ __ ] kidding me?
• 16:13
  However, in between those moments, there
• 16:15
  was a lot of fun sort of jumping around
• 16:17
  and shooting stuff and cutting things
• 16:19
  with a big lightsaber kind of stuff, you
• 16:21
  know, like so so but that is a very
• 16:24
  video game ass video game because
• 16:26
  there's all sorts of powerups and it's a
• 16:29
  rogike and it's like how would this
• 16:31
  exist in real life and the game goes it
• 16:33
  doesn't matter just work with me here on
• 16:34
  something else, you know? Um, but I
• 16:37
  guess the question for you then is like
• 16:39
  I think I know the answer there's not a
• 16:42
  game that's less video game than
• 16:44
  Pragmata, right?
• 16:47
  >> Um, yeah. Less video game, more video
• 16:51
  game. Can you occupy
• 16:52
  >> possible? No. Right.
• 16:53
  >> Can you OC that's that's kind of a fun
• 16:55
  question, right? Can you occupy degrees
• 16:58
  of video game within a video game? And I
• 17:01
  I mean not to be like annoying and
• 17:04
  pedantic, but
• 17:06
  >> annoying and pedantic is the subtitle
• 17:08
  for our podcast, Jake. So,
• 17:10
  >> okay,
• 17:11
  >> please by all means,
• 17:13
  >> how far do you have to go for a video
• 17:18
  game to become a video game? When if I
• 17:21
  buy the
• 17:22
  >> Oh, this is a good question. I have
• 17:23
  Yeah. thoughts on this.
• 17:24
  >> If if I buy the Game Boy Advance
• 17:26
  cartridge of Shrek 2.
• 17:28
  >> Love this. And
• 17:29
  >> yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 17:31
  >> It's it's like when when does that
• 17:33
  transformation occur, right?
• 17:35
  >> Yeah.
• 17:35
  >> And Yeah.
• 17:36
  >> So, I think about this a lot because um
• 17:39
  when we were getting ready for this
• 17:40
  episode, I I brought up like Quantic
• 17:41
  Dream games cuz those are like uh very
• 17:44
  like performanceheavy games that are
• 17:47
  very narrative driven um that people
• 17:50
  sometimes say like, "Oh, this is a game
• 17:52
  that is uh embarrassed about being a
• 17:54
  video game because it wants to be a
• 17:56
  movie." And I think that is a
• 17:58
  fundamental misread of games of that
• 18:01
  ilk. Think, you know, you think of like
• 18:03
  Until Dawn, you think of everyone loved
• 18:04
  Dispatch this past year or the Telltale
• 18:06
  Walking Dead game, stuff like that.
• 18:08
  Because at the core of those games, it
• 18:10
  is about making choices. And yes, the
• 18:12
  system, it's a pretty systems light
• 18:13
  game, but at the end of the day, you are
• 18:16
  making choices and um you experiencing
• 18:18
  different outcomes. However, what about
• 18:21
  something like do you remember Ber
• 18:24
  Snatch?
• 18:25
  >> Oo, Ber Snatch. Yeah, of course. It was
• 18:26
  it was an episode of quote unquote an
• 18:28
  episode of Black Mirror where um you
• 18:32
  would it was just a choose your own
• 18:34
  adventure thing where you would like
• 18:35
  make choices for the character and they
• 18:37
  filmed it was all it was like a FMB so
• 18:39
  it was all filmed right like a like a TV
• 18:41
  show whatever like a regular episode
• 18:42
  where you the person watching would make
• 18:44
  the choices for the main character and
• 18:48
  um whether or not you ch made the right
• 18:51
  choices like impacted the sort of ending
• 18:53
  that you get. Um but that's not
• 18:54
  something where you're holding a
• 18:55
  controller. you would have to hold the
• 18:56
  TV remote and whatever else. But is that
• 18:58
  a game? I would say yes because it falls
• 19:01
  into something like what we're talking
• 19:02
  about, the um
• 19:04
  >> I I think that this would be described
• 19:05
  as extremely video game if I'm if I'm
• 19:08
  understanding the premise well enough.
• 19:10
  And I and I think now that the more I
• 19:12
  sit with this, the more I'm starting to
• 19:13
  realize that game just means that the
• 19:16
  systems are visible.
• 19:19
  >> Yeah, 100%. that it's just it's just in
• 19:20
  your face saying like like
• 19:22
  >> uh uh in other games you collect like
• 19:25
  orbs, right? And those are upgrade orbs.
• 19:28
  In Donkey Kong you're collecting bananas
• 19:30
  and bananas are less realistic than orbs
• 19:33
  because they're just floating there.
• 19:36
  >> So
• 19:38
  if I I guess landing on this conclusion
• 19:41
  now, you know, I don't know 20 so
• 19:43
  minutes into the pod. Yeah.
• 19:44
  >> That that gaming just means that these
• 19:46
  systems are not designed. They are they
• 19:48
  are there for you to recognize as a
• 19:51
  contrivance of video games.
• 19:53
  >> Yeah.
• 19:53
  >> Um what should
• 19:56
  >> what is the good substant substantive
• 20:00
  use of calling a video game video gamey?
• 20:04
  What does that look like?
• 20:06
  >> Um I think it's about like breaking down
• 20:10
  how those visible systems impact the
• 20:13
  experience,
• 20:15
  >> you know. Uh uh I haven't play I've
• 20:18
  played the demo for Pragmatus and it was
• 20:19
  a year ago so I can't really speak to
• 20:21
  that but I mean like I think sticking
• 20:22
  with like a platformer is like totally
• 20:25
  fine. I think you can analyze like what
• 20:27
  it means to be chasing floating coins or
• 20:30
  bananas or whatever. You know what I
• 20:32
  mean? I think you can talk about those
• 20:33
  things. Um, I think you can also just
• 20:35
  talk about like uh, hey, there's a
• 20:38
  certain joy to just collecting stuff,
• 20:41
  you know, and and it doesn't have to
• 20:43
  necessarily be even connected to larger
• 20:45
  themes or or anything like that. Um,
• 20:48
  does that make sense? I I think that's
• 20:49
  where I would maybe start in just like
• 20:52
  discussing those elements on their own,
• 20:54
  right?
• 20:55
  >> Yeah, I think so. And I think that um,
• 20:58
  you know, often times it's easy for us
• 20:59
  to kind of like point at something and
• 21:01
  to say don't do that. And I'm wonder and
• 21:04
  I guess I'm just trying to take the
• 21:05
  conversation in a different direction
• 21:06
  here because the most kind of charitable
• 21:09
  or generous version of calling a video
• 21:13
  gamey
• 21:15
  is to say that they are it's it's a
• 21:17
  starting point. It's to say that you you
• 21:19
  understand that kind of the the rules,
• 21:22
  the systems, the player action, all of
• 21:25
  this is kind of structured by
• 21:28
  constraints of the medium. And
• 21:31
  >> yeah, so if I may, so like I think about
• 21:32
  like the idea of like red barrels.
• 21:34
  >> Okay.
• 21:35
  >> I I I think there's nothing wrong with
• 21:36
  in a review or in, you know, whatever
• 21:38
  writing like saying like you will
• 21:40
  probably recognize
• 21:43
  the way this game has set up its combat
• 21:45
  encounters. You got bad guys on one side
• 21:47
  of the room standing next to red
• 21:48
  barrels. There's a yellow paint showing
• 21:50
  you where to go once you finished
• 21:51
  clearing them out. But then you have to
• 21:52
  talk about like how do those things aid
• 21:55
  the experience? How do those things You
• 21:58
  sort of know what I mean? It has to
• 21:59
  there has to be some sort of like uh uh
• 22:01
  discussion of those elements if you're
• 22:03
  going to bring them up.
• 22:05
  >> Yeah. It's such an interesting thing,
• 22:06
  right? Because I think that there is a
• 22:10
  how much are we simply talking to
• 22:14
  someone who
• 22:15
  >> is just our our imagined reader, if you
• 22:18
  will, just versed enough in video games
• 22:21
  to understand what we mean. And maybe
• 22:24
  recognition is all we are looking for.
• 22:26
  is a preview written just for the sake
• 22:29
  of you being able to go this game is
• 22:32
  like this this and this person who reads
• 22:34
  video game previews.
• 22:37
  Goodbye. And is is that kind of the
• 22:40
  point?
• 22:41
  >> I think so.
• 22:42
  >> Yeah. And and then because it's funny,
• 22:44
  right? I think we've we've kind of
• 22:45
  already gone over this, but we would
• 22:47
  again we would never describe floating
• 22:49
  bananas as video gamey. We would also
• 22:51
  just like the entire concept of UI would
• 22:54
  just have to be
• 22:55
  >> it just all fits under like so in the
• 22:57
  game you're not going to believe this.
• 22:59
  You have a health bar, you have a
• 23:01
  stamina bar, there's a little map in the
• 23:02
  corner. Like
• 23:04
  >> so I'm I'm thinking right I'm thinking
• 23:05
  I'm wondering if if you are to engage in
• 23:08
  in more salient criticism. Let's use the
• 23:12
  bananas thing as an example, right? I
• 23:14
  think to say that the bananas are video
• 23:18
  gamey is a first step and maybe the
• 23:21
  second step is to say that the bananas
• 23:24
  act as a kind of directional signaling
• 23:26
  embedded into the environment. Um
• 23:28
  because the bananas are not just a
• 23:30
  currency. They are um instructions. They
• 23:34
  tell you kind of where to move and how
• 23:35
  to move and Yeah. Exactly. and they're
• 23:38
  able to do this without language as to
• 23:41
  not kind of like uh break up the
• 23:43
  momentum of play. And
• 23:46
  then I think that that is actually still
• 23:49
  just the beginning of recognition. And
• 23:52
  then you have to go a a second layer
• 23:55
  deep and say how does that affect you
• 23:58
  the individual?
• 23:59
  >> Yeah.
• 23:59
  >> Being being kind of handed these baby
• 24:01
  banana instructions
• 24:03
  as to where to go as if you couldn't
• 24:05
  figure it out on your own.
• 24:07
  I think u the takeaway for me for like
• 24:10
  talking about this sort of thing and is
• 24:12
  often a takeaway that I think we have uh
• 24:15
  on critical error is like go deeper and
• 24:17
  then
• 24:18
  >> go deeper than that just like just like
• 24:20
  a little bit more right because as
• 24:22
  you're saying I I think when people say
• 24:23
  like oh it's a video game that that's
• 24:26
  kind of like the end of it for a lot of
• 24:27
  reviews and a lot of like previews and
• 24:29
  discussions it's like oh just like a
• 24:30
  video game you know what this is and I'm
• 24:32
  like
• 24:33
  >> okay but like do I cuz you played it and
• 24:36
  I You know what I mean? Like for for
• 24:38
  Ghost of Yote, this thing's a video
• 24:40
  game. You know exactly what this is
• 24:42
  about. And it's again assuming this
• 24:44
  position that the reader is someone who
• 24:46
  has um played games like this. It's
• 24:49
  always it's also like assuming that like
• 24:52
  you and I agree on what the idea of
• 24:54
  being a video game and like those like
• 24:56
  video game ass mechanics are, you know,
• 24:58
  like
• 25:00
  to me is is is
• 25:03
  uh putting the critical onus on the
• 25:06
  person who's reading it because then
• 25:08
  they just have to fill in all the blanks
• 25:10
  and it's like just fully not doing the
• 25:12
  job of a critic. It's just fully not
• 25:14
  doing the job of a previewer or anything
• 25:16
  like that.
• 25:17
  >> Yeah. But that's and that's a tough
• 25:19
  thing where I could imagine getting push
• 25:20
  back on this where it's like the the job
• 25:22
  of a previewer is simply to witness and
• 25:25
  report back. It is simply to say I saw
• 25:28
  this thing. This is what I saw and now
• 25:31
  I'm telling you what I saw. And I will
• 25:34
  say obviously that things this
• 25:36
  conversation does get a little bit murky
• 25:37
  because then I think a lot of reviewers
• 25:38
  do kind of take that ideology and that
• 25:40
  framework and repeat it in their reviews
• 25:43
  which is obvious which is obviously a
• 25:45
  problem. But I but I just I for the sake
• 25:47
  of the for the sake of the the listener
• 25:50
  um is is you know and not to turn this
• 25:53
  into previews good question mark but uh
• 25:57
  there but there is this question of do
• 25:59
  we even want that in a preview? Do we
• 26:04
  require it to go deeper? Is there is
• 26:06
  there maybe some kind of foregrounding
• 26:09
  or understanding that what could what
• 26:12
  could Xbox Wires Pragmata is a video
• 26:15
  game? Whatever whatever the silly title
• 26:17
  was.
• 26:17
  >> Pragmata loves being a video game, Jake.
• 26:20
  >> Okay. Is is there a way that that could
• 26:22
  be written that wasn't that was um more
• 26:26
  useful for in in being a video game
• 26:29
  preview than what it is right now?
• 26:32
  Uh, I'm certainly
• 26:35
  um I I I think I mean I think so. I
• 26:38
  think the framing is just a little wrong
• 26:40
  and odd and I think we have plans on
• 26:42
  doing a preview episode explicitly about
• 26:45
  this sort of stuff uh in the future. So
• 26:47
  I don't want to necessarily like
• 26:48
  cannibalize those thoughts
• 26:51
  in this exact second, but I think
• 26:52
  certainly there's a way to frame this
• 26:54
  that gets a similar idea across without
• 26:56
  sort of using that
• 26:58
  >> language that I think is not
• 27:00
  particularly helpful or descriptive. Do
• 27:01
  you
• 27:01
  >> Well, yeah. I mean, definitely. I think
• 27:03
  that there's something again kind of
• 27:05
  staying on this point about recognition
• 27:07
  and not going into um criticism or
• 27:11
  analysis. What ends up happening is that
• 27:13
  if you are entirely focused on
• 27:15
  recognition, you find that the preview
• 27:17
  that you write is remarkably similar to
• 27:19
  the one coming out of Xbox Wire
• 27:22
  >> and which that and you if don't do that.
• 27:26
  >> Yeah, maybe don't do that. Don't do
• 27:27
  that. And especially I think maybe it
• 27:29
  was a little different when the
• 27:30
  landscape the the internet landscape was
• 27:32
  different, but especially now when video
• 27:36
  game PR and all these corporations have
• 27:39
  a million different ways to tell
• 27:42
  consumers about what the game is. Maybe
• 27:45
  that shouldn't be our job. Maybe cuz
• 27:48
  what I think what also this sort of
• 27:51
  language does and I I think this is kind
• 27:52
  of what you're hitting on is it's pretty
• 27:54
  much being like saying watch the trailer
• 27:57
  you'll Is this does this look good?
• 27:59
  >> If you watch a trailer and you like it
• 28:00
  then great. That's that's that's it.
• 28:02
  Because it's not it's not going any
• 28:03
  deeper. It's not telling you anything
• 28:04
  about it that you it's basically saying
• 28:06
  like you already know what this is.
• 28:08
  >> Watch the trailer and you figure it out.
• 28:09
  And it's like okay then that is just
• 28:12
  doing the PR of it, right? that it's
• 28:13
  just like boiling it down to saying
• 28:17
  nothing of of value or importance and um
• 28:20
  just pushing you to just I guess make
• 28:23
  your own decision based on like what the
• 28:24
  game already looks like and what you can
• 28:26
  already like assume about it.
• 28:28
  Yeah, it's funny because even again it's
• 28:30
  like coming back to the Donkey Kong
• 28:34
  Bananas comparison. I wonder what the
• 28:39
  kind of perceived effect would be of a
• 28:42
  review for Donkey Kong Country Tropical
• 28:44
  Freeze that talks about the kind of
• 28:47
  player positioning of um you know, you
• 28:50
  are playing a gorilla who for
• 28:54
  lack of a more nuanced understanding of
• 28:57
  Mr. Kong, I would say, has a strong
• 29:01
  desire for bananas.
• 29:03
  >> Now, listen, I haven't played all the
• 29:04
  games, so I'm not, you know, I can't say
• 29:07
  one way or another, but in the in the
• 29:09
  what, like 5 to eight hours I played
• 29:10
  Donkey Kong Bonanza, seems like that
• 29:12
  [ __ ] loves bananas. And there's
• 29:14
  something about the momentumbased
• 29:17
  platforming of Donkey Kong where there
• 29:21
  is this synthesis of not just achieving
• 29:25
  the desire of Donkey Kong to have
• 29:27
  bananas because he loves bananas, but
• 29:30
  also the kind of delight of hitting the
• 29:33
  sequence of bananas in rhythm that ding
• 29:36
  ding ding ding ding, you know,
• 29:37
  >> when he's sliding down a thing or Yeah.
• 29:39
  Yeah. And when you do the jump correctly
• 29:41
  as opposed to when you get half of it,
• 29:42
  then you kind of don't you don't finish
• 29:44
  that kind of lyrical phrase of the day
• 29:46
  and you always know it. And that kind of
• 29:49
  alignment between
• 29:51
  >> the delight of the player and the
• 29:54
  delight of Donkey Kong. It's almost
• 29:56
  trying to communicate something about
• 29:59
  about desire and like what is pulling
• 30:02
  Donkey Kong forward in the level, right?
• 30:03
  There's something Yeah, there's
• 30:04
  something uh kind of artistic happening
• 30:08
  there. to a to a certain degree. And now
• 30:11
  thinking about this now, it's making me
• 30:13
  wonder about like Mario's relationship
• 30:15
  with mushrooms, which we never talk
• 30:17
  about, but
• 30:18
  >> right.
• 30:18
  >> Do you think he do you think he like
• 30:20
  loves, you know, in the Mario movie, he
• 30:22
  hates mushrooms?
• 30:24
  >> Oh, yeah. That's a little point. They're
• 30:26
  like, "Just eat it. It's fine." He's
• 30:27
  like,
• 30:27
  >> "Yeah." And he's like, "Oh, I don't want
• 30:28
  it."
• 30:28
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:30
  >> It's kind of a funny It's kind of a
• 30:32
  funny thing, but um Yeah. I don't know.
• 30:34
  I I just wonder if if there is any room
• 30:37
  for this. If there is any room for
• 30:39
  somebody to just to stay with something
• 30:41
  long enough to
• 30:43
  >> is it would it be so terrible for you to
• 30:46
  sit with any bit of a work long enough
• 30:48
  to the point that you say something that
• 30:50
  somebody might disagree with? Because
• 30:52
  the other half of this conversation is
• 30:54
  that when you're just doing the work of
• 30:56
  recognition and saying this is what the
• 30:57
  game is, it's a defensive posture and a
• 31:00
  conservative one because it is the
• 31:01
  easiest one for you to uphold without
• 31:04
  anybody um responding back to you and
• 31:06
  disagreeing
• 31:07
  >> cuz I mean it's literally just saying
• 31:09
  those are red barrels and when you shoot
• 31:10
  them they explode. And literally no one
• 31:11
  could be like I don't think so, you
• 31:14
  know, or I have this like alternate
• 31:16
  interpretation. But I really like what
• 31:17
  you said about the like rhythm and
• 31:19
  musicality almost of like collecting all
• 31:22
  of the coins or bananas or whatever like
• 31:24
  rings if you're Sonic the Hedgehog in um
• 31:26
  in a sequence because there is that
• 31:28
  level of like oo nice
• 31:30
  >> versus
• 31:31
  >> if you miss it it's like I
• 31:33
  >> it feels like like you've left something
• 31:35
  on you did a bad job
• 31:37
  >> even though you're still moving forward
• 31:39
  it doesn't matter
• 31:40
  >> and so like there would be something
• 31:41
  interesting written about that and I can
• 31:42
  imagine someone else say having a
• 31:44
  different interpretation of that and a
• 31:46
  different like vibe and feeling of it.
• 31:49
  And um I think that like so much of
• 31:52
  games writing comes from this like
• 31:54
  defensive position. And I do understand
• 31:56
  why to a certain extent because of the
• 31:58
  way that gaming communities online tend
• 32:01
  to uh
• 32:03
  I do think there's a fair amount of like
• 32:05
  attacking that goes into anyone who has
• 32:06
  opinions about games on the internet.
• 32:08
  Like we've certainly seen that ourselves
• 32:09
  with this channel, but we've also seen
• 32:11
  that individually with our, you know,
• 32:13
  respective work and whatever else. Um,
• 32:15
  and so I understand to a certain extent
• 32:17
  why people are defensive uh as writers,
• 32:22
  but I also think that like
• 32:25
  I I understand the impulse, but I would
• 32:28
  push everyone to say like, "Yeah, but
• 32:29
  you're not making anything of substance
• 32:30
  and interesting." And the and the reason
• 32:32
  why people aren't uh are less likely to
• 32:36
  have opinions about what you've written
• 32:38
  when it comes from this more defensive
• 32:40
  place is because you're just not saying
• 32:42
  anything that anyone could have any
• 32:44
  additional opinions about. Well, and
• 32:46
  something we've discussed on this
• 32:47
  podcast before is kind of this idea of
• 32:50
  the limited shelf life of a conversation
• 32:52
  surrounding a game. How a single player
• 32:54
  game comes out, people say whatever it
• 32:56
  is they're going to say about it in
• 32:57
  their review, have the spoiler cast, and
• 32:58
  then weeks later it's like it never
• 33:00
  existed. And I wonder if this kind of
• 33:02
  writing contributes to that kind of
• 33:04
  environment because once you are done
• 33:06
  recognizing all the parts and organizing
• 33:08
  them so that they can be easily
• 33:09
  understood um you're there's nowhere
• 33:12
  else to go.
• 33:13
  >> There's nothing else to say. What did
• 33:15
  you think of the ending? This is what I
• 33:16
  thought.
• 33:18
  >> Okay.
• 33:19
  >> Right. Then just we move on.
• 33:21
  >> All right. has new games
• 33:25
  >> up on the docket five new games.
• 33:30
  >> Where's that Nintendo Direct? I need my
• 33:32
  next kit.
• 33:34
  >> Um yeah, it's it's by saying like, well,
• 33:38
  it's a video game. It's a video game and
• 33:39
  it's video game. I think it just assues
• 33:41
  any sort of like um additional
• 33:42
  conversation because it just it is um
• 33:46
  placeholder conversation essentially,
• 33:48
  right? It's placeholder analysis. It
• 33:49
  says like we will anal an analyze this
• 33:51
  once we have decided
• 33:53
  if it is or is not a video game. It's
• 33:55
  like well I got news for you. If you're
• 33:57
  sitting down with it with a controller,
• 33:58
  you got yourself a video game there.
• 34:00
  Dude, I'm like forming this argument in
• 34:02
  my head against maybe somebody that
• 34:03
  doesn't exist. So apologize apologies to
• 34:06
  the listener, but there's there's a part
• 34:07
  of me that's like I can imagine somebody
• 34:09
  almost arguing about the the spectrum of
• 34:13
  how video gamey a game is. And the more
• 34:16
  I think about it, dude, the more I'm
• 34:17
  just like, we we need to squash this. We
• 34:19
  need to squash this. Because like, if
• 34:20
  you look at something like The Last of
• 34:22
  Us, and then if you look at something
• 34:23
  like Donkey Kong Country, you might go,
• 34:26
  "Okay,
• 34:28
  one of these is trying to obscure its
• 34:31
  video gameiness more than the other."
• 34:33
  But I got to tell you, man, if I think
• 34:34
  about that for 30 seconds, it just
• 34:36
  completely evaporates in my brain.
• 34:37
  >> No, it's it's nonsense. It's ridiculous.
• 34:40
  >> The Last of Us is is Well, let me let me
• 34:42
  tell you about the video gameiness of
• 34:42
  The Last of Us. um all of the upgrade
• 34:44
  systems, every single resource that you
• 34:46
  come across, the entirety of stealth,
• 34:49
  the entirety of
• 34:50
  >> all of like which is like the main thing
• 34:52
  you're doing.
• 34:53
  >> I would say that encounter design as a
• 34:55
  whole is just video game which is you
• 34:59
  know so or
• 35:00
  >> any video game where you can recover
• 35:02
  from a bullet wound.
• 35:04
  >> Sure.
• 35:05
  >> While you're while you're out and
• 35:06
  running around, right? Like
• 35:07
  >> it's just wrapped in the language of
• 35:09
  real
• 35:10
  >> Yes. That's it. And and it's not even
• 35:12
  like wrapped like when you say wrapped
• 35:14
  in the language of realism, I think what
• 35:15
  you're just like describing is it looks
• 35:18
  pretty much like a human face,
• 35:20
  >> you know what I mean? And and wow, boy
• 35:22
  howdy. I can see the hurt and the pain
• 35:24
  behind those eyes, but then like the
• 35:26
  second it's like, hey, Joel falls on a
• 35:29
  piece of rebar through his stomach and
• 35:32
  then recovers, like you know, it's it's
• 35:35
  like, no, that's pretty inherently kind
• 35:38
  of [ __ ] silly. And one of the reasons
• 35:40
  why, if I may, I think one of these
• 35:42
  several reasons why I think that does
• 35:45
  not work really well when you turn it
• 35:46
  into a onetoone adaptation for a
• 35:48
  television show because there's a
• 35:50
  language of video games that we all
• 35:51
  understand. And even if you are doing
• 35:53
  something that is as quote unquote
• 35:55
  realistic as something like The Last of
• 35:57
  Us is attempting to be, the second that
• 35:59
  you're watching real human beings do it
• 36:01
  with your own two eyes that that that
• 36:03
  are in your noggin, like you immediately
• 36:06
  clock and go like, "No, no, it's not.
• 36:09
  I'm sorry. It doesn't. No, we can't. It
• 36:10
  isn't." Does that make sense?
• 36:12
  >> It does. It does. And I think that maybe
• 36:15
  the instinct to use The Last of Us as a
• 36:19
  point of argumentation in this is maybe
• 36:21
  just like a bad instinct. And maybe it
• 36:23
  would be more helpful to go the other
• 36:24
  way and to instead talk about games
• 36:27
  which are not at all trying to be kind
• 36:30
  of like cinematic or narrative and
• 36:33
  instead are trying to be something like
• 36:34
  when we when we say it's like arcadey.
• 36:36
  When we say a game is arcadey, what does
• 36:38
  that mean? Is that is that a more gamey
• 36:40
  video game? But at the same time,
• 36:44
  I don't think the way that we use video
• 36:46
  gaming and the way that we use arcade
• 36:48
  are really the same at all.
• 36:49
  >> No, because I think Arcadey is uh
• 36:52
  referencing a genre, right? It is
• 36:54
  referencing a set of systems within a
• 36:57
  particular genre of video game. When I
• 36:59
  think Arcadia, I'm like, "Okay, this is
• 37:00
  a game that is uh interested in score
• 37:03
  and numbers and um maybe like retrying,
• 37:07
  you know, um in the way that like old
• 37:10
  arcade games used to operate where it
• 37:12
  was like, okay, you die and now you
• 37:14
  start from the beginning again." That's
• 37:15
  why I think um the word arcadey I also
• 37:17
  associate really heavily with things
• 37:18
  like rogue likes because you are getting
• 37:20
  hit with like um these systems about
• 37:22
  like starting from the beginning and
• 37:24
  starting from scratch, you know. Um, but
• 37:26
  I I think when you to your point like
• 37:28
  saying arcadey
• 37:30
  does not have the same correlation as
• 37:32
  video gaming. And I think that
• 37:38
  I I I think you probably could make that
• 37:40
  argument that when you say gamey or
• 37:43
  video gamey, you could be referencing
• 37:46
  arcadey elements and that those elements
• 37:48
  are like in your face, but I think
• 37:50
  there's not that much overlap
• 37:51
  >> in terms of when it's used. Listening to
• 37:54
  you talk about it just now, it hit me
• 37:55
  that this is this is just unfortunately
• 37:59
  not to, you know, put a not to not to
• 38:02
  completely end the conversation, but the
• 38:04
  more I think about this, the more I'm
• 38:05
  like, this is just vibes based analysis.
• 38:08
  >> It's all vibes based. And I think I
• 38:11
  think that if we're working on with
• 38:12
  something with language that is entirely
• 38:14
  vibes based, I'm like, I think you just
• 38:16
  don't do it then.
• 38:17
  >> Just don't do it. I think I think I
• 38:18
  would just avoid uh not writing about
• 38:21
  those elements because write about those
• 38:22
  elements certainly, but like just don't
• 38:24
  say it like this, you know?
• 38:25
  >> Yeah. As as a critic, there's just no
• 38:26
  meaningful framework that can be built
• 38:28
  off of something that is so vibes based.
• 38:30
  And again, I think there's this uh
• 38:33
  defensive posture that comes from
• 38:35
  enjoyment where people will describe
• 38:38
  things as arcadey positive or arcadey
• 38:41
  negative. And it's really just a matter
• 38:43
  of um trying to defend having had fun.
• 38:47
  >> And yeah, you hear like um people will
• 38:49
  say like, "Oh man, this feels like a PS2
• 38:51
  game." Positive. This feels like a PS2
• 38:53
  game. Derogatory. And it's the same
• 38:55
  exact thing where it's like you're just
• 38:57
  like uh recognizing systems, recognizing
• 39:00
  uh vibes, I suppose. But whether
• 39:04
  something is PS2 positive, PS2 negative
• 39:07
  is literally comes down to your
• 39:09
  individual preferences, which hey, now
• 39:11
  we're starting to work with writing a
• 39:13
  review. Now we're starting to work with
• 39:14
  writing criticism. If you want to
• 39:16
  explain those things
• 39:18
  more, then there you go. We're starting
• 39:21
  to actually get a a feel for what you
• 39:23
  think about this game. But starting from
• 39:24
  that position, I think doesn't really uh
• 39:27
  I think you can skip that position
• 39:28
  altogether and just get into what you
• 39:29
  like or don't like about the game.
• 39:31
  >> Well, yeah, cuz it's it's funny being
• 39:32
  like this is a 360coded, this is a PS2
• 39:34
  kind of game.
• 39:35
  >> I would even say that that's like that's
• 39:37
  not even recognition. It's like a kind
• 39:40
  of recognition that has no articulation
• 39:42
  because you are
• 39:42
  >> exactly
• 39:43
  >> pointing to something real I think
• 39:46
  whether it be the the structure or the
• 39:48
  design
• 39:50
  like like something but instead of
• 39:51
  naming those elements you collapse them
• 39:54
  into an era and it turns uh kind of a
• 39:58
  set of
• 40:00
  specific choices into an aesthetic
• 40:03
  shortorthhand. And and then I think what
• 40:06
  you do when you make that choice is that
• 40:08
  you replace your analysis with a kind of
• 40:11
  fleeting nostalgia, right?
• 40:13
  >> Yeah.
• 40:14
  >> Cuz also like to that point like I
• 40:18
  understand what someone means when they
• 40:19
  say, "Oh, this feels like an Xbox 360
• 40:21
  game." Because I played a lot of Xbox
• 40:22
  360 games at the time, right?
• 40:24
  >> I only kind of know what people mean to
• 40:26
  be honest with you. If it's if it's like
• 40:28
  if we're talking about the the the brown
• 40:30
  aesthetic, then I can I'm I'm with you
• 40:32
  on that. But
• 40:32
  >> but this is this is the point I'm making
• 40:33
  here where I'm like, do you mean that or
• 40:36
  do you mean that it's like like a like a
• 40:39
  coverbased shooter? Do you mean sure
• 40:42
  >> that there's like like a game that has
• 40:43
  like a lot of health packs in it? You
• 40:45
  know what I mean? Like like exactly what
• 40:47
  you're saying. I know what you mean
• 40:50
  >> in that I know the pantheon of the
• 40:52
  things that you could mean, but what
• 40:55
  specifically are you talking about? And
• 40:57
  if you're going to start specifically
• 40:58
  talking about any of those elements,
• 41:00
  then you might as well just start there.
• 41:01
  and and not and avoid the comparison and
• 41:04
  skip the comparison altogether.
• 41:06
  >> Remember um that game Kenna like
• 41:08
  something of spirits
• 41:09
  >> bridge of spirit sequel that's coming
• 41:12
  out something and then I think the
• 41:14
  original iss coming to Switch or
• 41:16
  something. Um so it was it was back in
• 41:18
  my mind but that was a game that I think
• 41:20
  people had described when it came out as
• 41:23
  like a PS2 game. And
• 41:25
  >> yes,
• 41:26
  >> it's funny man. And it's like at the end
• 41:27
  of the day, all I'm kind of asking for
• 41:30
  in this analysis is to instead of saying
• 41:32
  it's like a PS2 game, say it's either
• 41:36
  refreshingly focused or
• 41:41
  outdated and primitive. Just just pick
• 41:43
  one.
• 41:44
  >> Yeah. No, exactly. It's it's it's like
• 41:47
  that is a better starting point in my
• 41:49
  opinion
• 41:50
  >> because it's it's like telling me
• 41:52
  something about what you thought of the
• 41:54
  video game and not just saying like I
• 41:56
  know what the PlayStation 2 is and it's
• 41:57
  like right do we all have the same
• 41:59
  opinion of the PlayStation 2. Like
• 42:02
  >> that's I I think that's an obvious
• 42:04
  problem with this where it's then we we
• 42:06
  are also of course kind of collapsing
• 42:08
  the PS2 into a shortand which is silly
• 42:12
  and you know I'm sure the PS2 had games
• 42:15
  that were not uh PS2 like if you will. I
• 42:19
  I don't I I don't you know I'm sure I
• 42:21
  >> No, it's it's like it's like of course.
• 42:23
  I mean
• 42:25
  like like Yeah, certainly. But then like
• 42:27
  like I don't know. Would you say so like
• 42:30
  Persona 4 as like is a is a PS2 game
• 42:33
  that that was a game that launched on
• 42:34
  the PlayStation 2?
• 42:36
  >> Um would you say that Persona 5 would
• 42:39
  you ever be like, "Dang, this feels like
• 42:40
  a PS2 game."
• 42:42
  >> Like probably not, right? Like
• 42:44
  >> Yeah, that's crazy. even though even
• 42:46
  though it is it is sort of um sticking
• 42:49
  to a lot of those same design choices
• 42:51
  and and obviously it iterates on those
• 42:53
  and and it changes things up, but like I
• 42:56
  don't think you'd ever say that because
• 42:57
  there's different ways to talk about it
• 42:59
  than than saying that. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 43:00
  it's funny, I would even make the
• 43:01
  argument, too, that a game like Persona
• 43:04
  4 is maybe more fitting on a handheld
• 43:08
  device than it is on its original PS2
• 43:10
  platform in kind of the personal
• 43:12
  relationships that it wants you to have
• 43:14
  with it in the amount of time that you
• 43:16
  kind of pick the game up and put it back
• 43:18
  down and the the ritual of interacting
• 43:20
  with it is maybe, you know, you know,
• 43:21
  there's something to say about that. And
• 43:23
  it's like, but even in that, I'm not
• 43:25
  saying h it's really more of a VA coded
• 43:27
  game to me,
• 43:28
  >> right? Cuz like what is that? What does
• 43:30
  that mean?
• 43:32
  >> I think at the end of the day, um, are
• 43:34
  you familiar? Oh, man. I'm forgetting
• 43:36
  what the name of
• 43:38
  >> uh there's a there's a uh uh
• 43:42
  line of thinking for writing headlines
• 43:44
  where if you ask if you ask a question
• 43:46
  in the headline um that can be answered
• 43:50
  with yes or no, assume that people are
• 43:52
  going to also in their heads answer the
• 43:54
  question no,
• 43:55
  >> right? like uh uh and so it immediately
• 43:58
  sort of like debunks the entire written
• 44:00
  piece. So if you wrote something like
• 44:01
  does the VA need to make a comeback, you
• 44:04
  are asking yes or no and some people who
• 44:06
  are going to read that headline will
• 44:08
  just go no and then never read your
• 44:09
  thing and not take you seriously because
• 44:11
  it's it's just positioning itself in a
• 44:13
  weird way, right? There's a stronger way
• 44:14
  to position yourself. And so like I
• 44:16
  think in a similar way like
• 44:19
  you could make an argument for like hey
• 44:22
  this feels like this thing and then it's
• 44:23
  like I could just say no it doesn't or
• 44:25
  or because we're we don't all agree on
• 44:27
  what that what those positions are this
• 44:29
  feels like a video game. What do you
• 44:31
  mean by that? Ask yourself what are you
• 44:33
  talking about
• 44:34
  >> and then I think you're going to get
• 44:35
  closer to what you actually mean. I
• 44:37
  think that there is also too when you
• 44:38
  participate in that kind of uh outline
• 44:42
  in your work, there is this um explosion
• 44:46
  of the self that occurs where the
• 44:48
  perspective that is talking about the
• 44:50
  video game is now not an individual
• 44:53
  human being and it is instead kind of
• 44:56
  the purveyor of video games. So, we we
• 44:59
  talked about this in our bonus episode,
• 45:00
  patreon.com/critical error, uh about
• 45:02
  this idea of like responding to the
• 45:04
  actual community response to a game and
• 45:07
  how that is how so much like games
• 45:09
  criticism uh online feels like it lives.
• 45:12
  >> And that's just coming from from a point
• 45:14
  of like
• 45:17
  there's a separation from the actual
• 45:18
  text of the game. Go back to the game.
• 45:20
  What are you talking about? Right.
• 45:23
  >> It's funny, right? It's like I I think a
• 45:25
  good practice might be to go through a
• 45:27
  piece that you have written and if you
• 45:29
  ever write a sentence where you could
• 45:31
  put in parenthesis at the end, you know,
• 45:34
  then maybe rethink what it is that
• 45:36
  you're saying there. So
• 45:38
  >> yes,
• 45:38
  >> Pragmata loves being a video game.
• 45:40
  Parenthesis,
• 45:42
  >> you know,
• 45:42
  >> you know, you know what I mean?
• 45:44
  >> It's like, oh, okay, maybe that is
• 45:46
  >> maybe that statement is not as
• 45:49
  declarative as we maybe want it to be.
• 45:52
  And I got to say this this being, you
• 45:54
  know, boldly PR considering it's coming
• 45:57
  from the Xbox Wire, I I actually I'm
• 46:00
  actually a little confused by their
• 46:02
  choice to go for this kind of headline
• 46:04
  because to me this headline is maybe not
• 46:06
  as u
• 46:08
  like I don't know is this good PR? Like
• 46:12
  cuz I also like Yeah. Like uh uh when
• 46:14
  you read this because again we're all
• 46:16
  assuming that we have the same
• 46:18
  understanding of what it means to love
• 46:20
  being a video game. Uh, but I would
• 46:23
  argue we do not all have that view. And
• 46:25
  I think there's a very easy way to read
• 46:27
  that headline and be like, "Oh, no thank
• 46:28
  you.
• 46:29
  >> Oh, oh, no thank you." If if that's what
• 46:32
  it means, then negative. This feels like
• 46:34
  it could be uh coming from a negative
• 46:36
  perspective. Obviously, when you read
• 46:37
  it, that is not the case. And also,
• 46:38
  obviously, like if you're reading
• 46:40
  anything on uh Xbox Wire, you should
• 46:42
  imagine that it is all 100% positive all
• 46:45
  the time. That's I guess what I would
• 46:49
  start with. But uh
• 46:50
  >> they should they should do it. They
• 46:51
  should put out one that is just [ __ ]
• 46:53
  for that.
• 46:54
  >> Just be like, "Dude, Pragmatic looks
• 46:56
  bad." Oh gosh. Like
• 46:58
  >> they should pick something insane
• 46:59
  though. You know what I mean? Like like
• 47:01
  they they've got a preview up for like
• 47:02
  some Hello Kitty game and they're like,
• 47:04
  "What is this?"
• 47:06
  >> Just be like a snobby game. Hey, that
• 47:07
  Hello Kitty uh crossover game is coming
• 47:10
  out soon.
• 47:11
  >> That would be awesome. That
• 47:13
  >> I know a lot of people from um Xbox
• 47:15
  watch critical error. So, if any of them
• 47:16
  are watching right now and you would
• 47:18
  like
• 47:18
  >> call them Xbox Watch Critical Error.
• 47:20
  >> Oh, definitely. They're watching right
• 47:21
  now. And I think if any of them are
• 47:23
  watching right now and they want to hire
• 47:24
  me out for one single randomly extremely
• 47:27
  negative piece of of preview coverage,
• 47:30
  I'd be happy to to oblige.
• 47:32
  >> If you if you work for X, if you're Asha
• 47:35
  Chararma, how about this?
• 47:36
  >> Okay. If you're Asha Sharma, Asha
• 47:37
  Sharma, welcome to the podcast.
• 47:39
  >> Welcome to the podcast. First of all,
• 47:41
  welcome anytime. You can chop it up
• 47:43
  about Redfall or whatever. Um,
• 47:46
  >> what's your first question to Asha
• 47:47
  Sharma now? Not this is not being us.
• 47:50
  This is us being fun. This is we want
• 47:52
  Xbox and Asha Sharma who's listening
• 47:54
  right now. We want them to come on the
• 47:56
  >> podcast actually ask.
• 47:57
  >> No, no, no. We We want them to come on
• 47:59
  the podcast. So, so just to give them a
• 48:00
  preview, what what's your first
• 48:02
  question?
• 48:03
  >> Um,
• 48:06
  how dare you? Uh, no. Sorry, sorry,
• 48:08
  sorry. First question. First question.
• 48:09
  First question to get people on here.
• 48:10
  Uh, I'd be like,
• 48:12
  >> uh, Halo or Gears of War.
• 48:15
  >> Wow, that's good.
• 48:16
  >> And she'd be like, I don't know what
• 48:17
  those are.
• 48:18
  >> I think I think I would I would want to
• 48:22
  know um, you know, she has like the big
• 48:24
  AI background.
• 48:25
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:25
  >> I would say if you had to create a
• 48:27
  dating profile for Microsoft co-pilot,
• 48:29
  what would it
• 48:30
  >> Oh, see this is good. This is this is
• 48:32
  absolutely what they would want from us
• 48:33
  to hear. Here's what I was going to say
• 48:35
  though. Uh, for Asha Sharma, if you're
• 48:37
  listening, uh, you can actually buy our
• 48:38
  opinions. We I know we we posture big
• 48:40
  for $2 million. One for Jake, one for
• 48:42
  me.
• 48:43
  >> Um actually three and then one for Chip.
• 48:45
  Uh good.
• 48:46
  >> Uh uh we will we we can be Xbox PR.
• 48:50
  >> Yeah.
• 48:51
  >> Secret Xbox PR.
• 48:53
  >> Do you think they should drop? Is there
• 48:55
  a What the name Xbox? I No, I can't get
• 48:59
  it. I can't get I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
• 49:00
  I'm sorry. We're talking about Project
• 49:02
  Felix now. It's It's a
• 49:04
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 49:05
  >> What a what a time to be live. So, um,
• 49:07
  what a video gamey podcast for us,
• 49:09
  >> dude. What do like such so so much talk
• 49:10
  about video games in here?
• 49:12
  >> Yeah.
• 49:13
  >> Do you think the the official Xbox
• 49:15
  podcast? Sorry, I'm on Xbox Wire right
• 49:16
  now.
• 49:17
  >> You think this there's anything here?
• 49:19
  >> There's an official Xbox podcast.
• 49:21
  >> It's at the top. It's at the top middle
• 49:22
  of the screen, dog, on Xbox Wire.
• 49:24
  >> That's awesome.
• 49:26
  >> Who hosts this?
• 49:27
  >> I don't know, but we should reach out.
• 49:29
  Collab.
• 49:29
  >> Collab.
• 49:30
  >> That would be awesome.
• 49:32
  >> That's one step closer to Asha Sharma.
• 49:34
  Please. I got a I got an email response
• 49:37
  rejecting me from a job that I applied
• 49:40
  to before I knew about BDS. So, in
• 49:44
  literally April or before, so pre-appril
• 49:48
  of last year, I got a
• 49:51
  I applied for a job at Xbox or for one
• 49:54
  of their studios, whatever, for a video
• 49:56
  creation job. I got the rejection email
• 49:58
  for that yesterday.
• 50:00
  >> Oh, that's awesome. So, it's literally
• 50:02
  like a full year later. They're like,
• 50:04
  "Yeah, we're actually going to move on
• 50:05
  with other candidates." And I'm like,
• 50:07
  "First of all, obviously. Second of all,
• 50:09
  if you've been keeping up with my work
• 50:10
  ever since, yeah, I bet." Like, I bet
• 50:14
  >> a lot going on right now.
• 50:15
  >> There's a lot going on.
• 50:17
  >> I guess that's true.
• 50:18
  >> Project Helix isn't going to make
• 50:20
  itself.
• 50:21
  >> You know, every time I see Project Helix
• 50:23
  in the news,
• 50:24
  >> Yeah.
• 50:24
  >> I think about Helix from ARMS. Are you
• 50:26
  familiar?
• 50:27
  >> Uh, from the video game Arms.
• 50:30
  >> Yeah. Look him up. From the video game
• 50:31
  Arms. because and I think that
• 50:33
  >> look at this guy. He looks like
• 50:34
  >> I think there's I think they should take
• 50:36
  advantage of this. Okay, cuz Helix is
• 50:38
  green.
• 50:39
  >> He kind of looks like remember like was
• 50:42
  this on the Xbox like the original Xbox
• 50:44
  where it was like the green like blue
• 50:47
  turns into the X?
• 50:48
  >> He looks like that.
• 50:49
  >> Yeah. I think that they need to figure
• 50:51
  out some kind of deal to acquire, you
• 50:53
  know, they love acquisitions. They
• 50:55
  should acquire Helix from ARMS and
• 50:57
  remove him from ARMS and instead say you
• 51:01
  are Xbox now.
• 51:04
  >> Helix, welcome to the team.
• 51:05
  >> Could you imagine? We've acquired Helix.
• 51:08
  >> We've acquired Helix.
• 51:09
  >> And then he comes out during the
• 51:11
  presentations and he's like, "Hey guys,
• 51:15
  let's talk about Project Helix."
• 51:17
  >> Here's why this would never happen. And
• 51:18
  it's because Xbox is far too invested in
• 51:22
  being like, "We're cool. We get it.
• 51:24
  We're cool. We get it, you know. And
• 51:25
  they would never at this point.
• 51:27
  >> But I don't think I don't think Xbox
• 51:28
  would think Helix is cool. I think Helix
• 51:30
  looks as awesome. Look at him. Look at
• 51:31
  his little like lips. Look at his little
• 51:33
  goggles.
• 51:33
  >> Oh, he's so cool.
• 51:35
  >> He's sick now. He looks dope.
• 51:36
  >> He's perfect for Project Helix.
• 51:39
  >> I I think so. Wait, is his head was the
• 51:42
  game I think was was it Donkey Kong
• 51:44
  Bonanza where there were like things
• 51:45
  that were like sticking out of the
• 51:46
  ground like this? Oh, no, no, that's um
• 51:48
  I'm thinking of Astrobot. Sorry, I'm
• 51:50
  confusing my 3D platform.
• 51:51
  >> What are you doing?
• 51:52
  >> What are you doing? Now we've got
• 51:54
  everyone involved. We've got PlayStation
• 51:55
  here. We've got Nintendo with with
• 51:57
  Helix.
• 51:58
  >> Insane that this devolved into what this
• 51:59
  became. Uh
• 52:00
  >> no, this is good. This was a little
• 52:02
  treat for people who made it all the way
• 52:04
  through us thinking about video gaming
• 52:06
  and then ultimately landing on dumb.
• 52:09
  >> About about 3 minutes into the podcast,
• 52:11
  I was like, we have said the word video
• 52:12
  game way too much.
• 52:14
  >> Way too much.
• 52:17
  >> I just want I just want ARMS 2. Revenge
• 52:21
  of Felix. Didn't they do ARMS 2 or am I
• 52:23
  crazy?
• 52:23
  >> No, Peter, they didn't do ARMS 2. You
• 52:25
  think I'd be here if there was an ARMS
• 52:27
  2?
• 52:28
  >> Oh my gosh. Wait, someone has predicted
• 52:30
  Oh, in the ARMS subreddit six months
• 52:32
  ago, predictions and wishes for ARMS 2.
• 52:34
  >> Oh, see, I would love that. I would love
• 52:36
  that. Wait, okay, before we transition
• 52:38
  into talking about the patrons, we
• 52:40
  talked a little bit about like this is
• 52:42
  like a PS2 game, you know what I mean?
• 52:44
  >> Yeah. Just off the off the top of your
• 52:46
  dome, without even thinking about it,
• 52:48
  Gut Instinct, what is the best game on
• 52:50
  PS2 as a treat?
• 52:52
  >> Uh,
• 52:55
  Star Wars Battlefront 2. I mean,
• 52:58
  >> um,
• 53:00
  I could be like, "Oh, Silent Hill, too."
• 53:02
  >> I love No, no, no. I love Star Wars
• 53:04
  Battlefront 2. That's an incredible
• 53:05
  pick.
• 53:05
  >> I think Yeah, that's where I go.
• 53:07
  >> Great pick.
• 53:08
  >> What What do you think?
• 53:09
  >> Um Oh, god. You I asked this question.
• 53:12
  You think I would have a response? I
• 53:14
  assume that you had I thought I think
• 53:15
  you I thought you asked so that you
• 53:17
  could tell me what you think it is.
• 53:18
  >> No. Uh uh uh I'm I'm just so generous in
• 53:22
  my question asking. I guess I guess the
• 53:24
  one that came to mind was uh Final
• 53:25
  Fantasy X.
• 53:26
  >> Oh, dude. Final Fantasy 10 is actually
• 53:28
  [ __ ] good.
• 53:29
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:31
  >> I know. Here's the thing. I know that
• 53:32
  it's like common to be like the your
• 53:34
  favorite Final Fantasy game is the same
• 53:35
  as your favorite Pokemon game, which is
• 53:37
  just whatever one you played first.
• 53:39
  So Final Fantasy 10 is the first Final
• 53:41
  Fantasy game I played. But I would like
• 53:43
  to posit that I'm not biased at all.
• 53:45
  Shut up. You're biased. Final Fantasy 10
• 53:47
  is actually the best Final Fantasy game.
• 53:49
  >> Oh, can I change my answer? The real
• 53:51
  answer just occurred to me.
• 53:52
  >> Final Fantasy X 2.
• 53:54
  >> No. Kingdom Hearts 2.
• 53:59
  Best game on the PS2.
• 54:04
  >> Actually don't have a funny funny pick
• 54:06
  for this. If you walk away, you won't
• 54:10
  hear me say,
• 54:12
  >> "Listen, we're we're careening towards
• 54:14
  how it feels to listen to the bonus
• 54:16
  podcast, which I maybe this is a good ad
• 54:18
  for it." Have I ever told you about I
• 54:19
  went to an open mic once um where there
• 54:21
  was a girl who got up, a woman rather,
• 54:23
  she got up and she was like uh she
• 54:26
  played a handful of songs that she had
• 54:27
  written and then she was like, "All
• 54:28
  right, this next one's for any gamers
• 54:30
  out there." And I was like, "What are
• 54:31
  you about to do?" And she's like, "You
• 54:33
  might recognize this if you've played
• 54:35
  Kingdom Hearts." And she goes, "I don't
• 54:36
  really know Japanese that well, so like
• 54:39
  you will excuse my pronunciations for
• 54:41
  this." And
• 54:42
  >> and then she sang from the Little
• 54:44
  Mermaid under this.
• 54:46
  >> No, she So she sang that song, but she
• 54:48
  like she like prefaced it by being like,
• 54:50
  "Yeah, I don't really know the Japanese
• 54:52
  pronunciations." But like from my view
• 54:54
  sitting there in the audience, I was
• 54:55
  like, "You [ __ ] nailed it." So I
• 54:56
  don't know what you were talking about.
• 54:57
  Like
• 54:57
  >> I think they I think they knew exactly
• 54:59
  what they were saying.
• 55:00
  >> I think they knew exactly what they were
• 55:02
  saying. Just like Jake, how I know
• 55:04
  exactly what I'm saying when I say that
• 55:06
  if you're listening to this and you want
• 55:07
  more
• 55:08
  >> more Critical Error, you can head on
• 55:10
  over to patreon.com/critical
• 55:12
  error and join the critical error Nation
• 55:15
  for just $5 a month to get additional
• 55:17
  bonus episodes. We did our book club.
• 55:19
  We've done community events and Animal
• 55:21
  Crossing, which I uh was thinking about
• 55:24
  the other day and very fondly
• 55:25
  remembering all of that. Um, Jake, but I
• 55:28
  would like to give a special shout out
• 55:31
  to the $20 Jake and Peter tier of our
• 55:34
  Patreon. I would like to say thank you
• 55:36
  to Andrew Bular, to Evan Snee, to Robert
• 55:40
  Quesada. Thank you so much to those
• 55:43
  people who are supporting us financially
• 55:45
  at the top of our Patreon. It means so
• 55:47
  much to me and you and Jake. Saying
• 55:52
  thank you to them wouldn't be complete
• 55:53
  if we didn't say thank you to the
• 55:54
  members of the Critical Era royalty.
• 55:55
  Would you agree? We must do that with a
• 55:58
  sound. And this is going to be the most
• 55:59
  video gamey sound we've done yet, I
• 56:01
  think.
• 56:02
  >> So, is it just going to be like a bunch
• 56:03
  of bops and boops?
• 56:04
  >> You'll have to You'll have to listen.
• 56:05
  You'll have to see.
• 56:06
  >> I can't wait to hear it.
• 56:08
  >> Okay, everybody. To make this the most
• 56:10
  video gamey Patreon supporter read yet,
• 56:13
  we are making it a game. I will be
• 56:16
  mixing in the names of video game
• 56:19
  characters with our $10 and up
• 56:21
  supporters, but it is going to be
• 56:23
  really, really hard to tell. Well, so
• 56:25
  this is a bit of a test, a test of your
• 56:27
  knowledge. Do you know who supports
• 56:30
  Critical Error podcast at the $10 and up
• 56:32
  tier? And do you know who is a video
• 56:34
  game character? Let's begin.
• 56:37
  Shin, Andrew Bulkar, Pikachu, Pinky
• 56:41
  Oats, Jacob Richter, Solid Snake, Mitch
• 56:45
  Dyer, Mero, Sam Woods, Link, Connor
• 56:50
  Trula, Kalech Chow, Master Chief, Robert
• 56:53
  Kesada, Cole, Anel, Trait, Laura Croft,
• 56:58
  Jared Kuseno, Evans, Snee, Danny,
• 57:01
  Disaster, Cloud Strife, James Pierre
• 57:04
  Reed, Sonic the Hedgehog, and thick dick
• 57:08
  Mystic.
• 57:09
  >> I feel thoroughly video gameified. Do
• 57:11
  you?
• 57:12
  >> Me, too. I'm like I'm like turning into
• 57:14
  pixels right before your eyes. It's
• 57:16
  freaking me out.
• 57:17
  >> Uh so please uh wrap this episode up
• 57:21
  with as we do every week with a little
• 57:23
  written piece. Uh Peter, what what were
• 57:25
  you compelled to write about this week?
• 57:26
  >> So I want to say this. I'm not entirely
• 57:28
  sure how this all came together for him.
• 57:30
  >> Okay. Um,
• 57:34
  and it's interesting that we talked so
• 57:35
  much about like games that are very
• 57:36
  systemsheavy because this is about a
• 57:38
  game that is, as I mentioned in this
• 57:40
  piece, um, almost entirely systems. So,
• 57:43
  this is, I think perhaps you could say
• 57:45
  the most video game a video game could
• 57:46
  possibly be
• 57:48
  >> as there is no narrative cohesion to it.
• 57:50
  However,
• 57:52
  only an insane person would try to make
• 57:54
  that argument.
• 57:56
  Here we go. Okay.
• 57:59
  I feel pretty confident when I say that
• 58:00
  Yatsi might be one of the greatest games
• 58:03
  of all time. It's probably the second
• 58:05
  best game of all time. Actually, don't
• 58:07
  hold me to this, but it might go number
• 58:09
  one Resident Evil 4, number two, Yatsi,
• 58:11
  number three, Dead Space 2. Depending on
• 58:14
  the day, maybe we flip RE4 in Dead
• 58:15
  Space. But Yatsi is a game so good that
• 58:18
  I can't believe anyone went on to try
• 58:20
  and make games after it became popular.
• 58:22
  You see, I've been playing a lot of
• 58:23
  Clubhouse Games 51 worldwide classics on
• 58:26
  the Switch after my friend Jake
• 58:27
  introduced me and my wife to it. And the
• 58:29
  version of Yatsi included in the game
• 58:31
  collection has been wedged in my brain
• 58:33
  in the way that good video games often
• 58:35
  get stuck. I've been thinking about
• 58:37
  Yacht Dice, as it's called in Clubhouse
• 58:39
  Games to avoid the copyrighted name
• 58:41
  Yatsi. In the same way that I've been
• 58:43
  thinking about marathon, mulling over
• 58:45
  different strategies and possible
• 58:46
  situations as I wash the dishes and
• 58:48
  brush my teeth. Maybe it's best to start
• 58:50
  by prioritizing your individual numbers
• 58:52
  to try and get go for the 35 point
• 58:54
  bonus, but wait on going for your fives
• 58:56
  or sixes since it leaves you flexible
• 58:57
  for things like highscoring full houses
• 58:59
  and four of a kinds as you start to
• 59:01
  exhaust other options. I was never one
• 59:03
  for dice games or board games as a kid,
• 59:05
  but there's something soothing to me
• 59:07
  about numbers now. I used to prefer
• 59:10
  games on screens that took me away to
• 59:12
  the far away lands of Hyrule and the
• 59:14
  like. But lately, I'm happy to drop
• 59:16
  whatever fantasies are playing out in my
• 59:18
  mind. And just think about numbers. The
• 59:21
  pattern recognition that comes with the
• 59:23
  table games that I've grown fond of over
• 59:25
  the last few years like Blackjack and
• 59:27
  now Yocked Dice enthrals me. It's the
• 59:31
  most refined version of a systemsheavy
• 59:33
  game as you can get. I suppose it's oops
• 59:36
  all systems without needing to be bogged
• 59:38
  down by the kind of lackluster stories
• 59:40
  that we've grown to accept from video
• 59:41
  games these days. I like yacht dice
• 59:44
  because I don't have to worry about
• 59:45
  keeping track of characters or managing
• 59:47
  inventory space. Instead, I get to focus
• 59:49
  on if it's worth keeping my deuces slots
• 59:51
  in hopes of getting uh eight points or
• 59:53
  if I should just take four points and
• 59:55
  keep my large straight slot open in the
• 59:56
  hopes that I can pull something together
• 59:57
  in the final four turns.
• 1:00:00
  We've known for a long time that our
• 1:00:02
  brains are designed to recognize
• 1:00:03
  patterns and make meaning out of
• 1:00:04
  numbers. A fact that predisposes many of
• 1:00:07
  us to things like gambling addictions.
• 1:00:09
  And maybe that's part of why I like
• 1:00:10
  yucked dice. But there's another part of
• 1:00:13
  it outside of the lizard brain synapses
• 1:00:16
  it makes my body fire off that has
• 1:00:18
  nothing to do with whatever studies have
• 1:00:20
  found out about the human desire for
• 1:00:22
  neat numbers. A game like Yatsi is
• 1:00:25
  different than other multiplayer games
• 1:00:26
  in that the skill ceiling is actually on
• 1:00:29
  the floor. Yacht Dice is hardly a video
• 1:00:31
  game at all, which means I can play it
• 1:00:33
  with my wife and my non-gaming friends
• 1:00:35
  and anyone who will spend a few rounds
• 1:00:37
  of rolling digital dice while all of
• 1:00:39
  these synapses in our brains light up in
• 1:00:41
  unison. It's a game where we can sit and
• 1:00:44
  talk and laugh and lock in when it's our
• 1:00:47
  turn and lean in close when we need to
• 1:00:49
  get just one more three to get a yatsi.
• 1:00:51
  but instead we get a two, which means
• 1:00:52
  now we have to choose between a 12 and
• 1:00:54
  the three slot or a very lowcoring 14
• 1:00:56
  and the four of a kind slot and we
• 1:00:58
  smile. That smile is a system I can't
• 1:01:01
  quite quantify. It lives outside of the
• 1:01:04
  experience of playing the game, but is
• 1:01:06
  intrinsically tied to it. Yatsi is a
• 1:01:09
  systemsheavy game, except for one of its
• 1:01:12
  best qualities, which exists entirely
• 1:01:14
  outside the bounds of its mechanics. Yak
• 1:01:17
  Dice is a game about pattern
• 1:01:19
  recognition. But the most notable
• 1:01:21
  pattern I've recognized is that it's the
• 1:01:24
  second best game of all time. But when I
• 1:01:26
  play with my friends, it's better than
• 1:01:28
  Resident Evil 4 or maybe Dead Space 2,
• 1:01:32
  depending on the day.
• 1:01:34
  Thanks,
• 1:01:37
  >> Yakadice.
• 1:01:39
  Bravo, Yakadice. Yes,
• 1:01:41
  >> I made a realization.
• 1:01:42
  >> Okay, please. after we got home, after
• 1:01:44
  we called it yacht dice for what, three
• 1:01:46
  nights with you and Sarah.
• 1:01:48
  >> Um,
• 1:01:49
  it's called yacht dice.
• 1:01:51
  >> Yeah, that's right.
• 1:01:53
  >> I never looked at the It's called yacht
• 1:01:56
  dice. And I was like looking at it, I
• 1:01:57
  was like, "Wait a second. Why is it
• 1:01:58
  called Wait, we've been calling it
• 1:02:00
  yucked?"
• 1:02:01
  >> Because it is more fun to call it yucked
• 1:02:02
  dice, isn't it? I think every so often
• 1:02:05
  somebody needs a harsh reminder that
• 1:02:07
  part of my existence as a human being is
• 1:02:10
  that sometimes for fun I choose to
• 1:02:13
  pronounce words incorrectly because I
• 1:02:15
  have more I'm I'm just trying to live
• 1:02:16
  life to the fullest.
• 1:02:17
  >> Yeah. I don't care if it makes me sound
• 1:02:18
  dumb. But
• 1:02:20
  >> ex right exactly. So it's it's that's
• 1:02:22
  like a good time.
• 1:02:24
  >> Um yeah. Yock Dice, man. Uh I mean
• 1:02:27
  please I've play I played Yak Dice as
• 1:02:29
  recently as last night with Sarah. Dude,
• 1:02:31
  me, our good friend Christian was
• 1:02:33
  staying with me and Elena for for two
• 1:02:35
  nights. And you bet your bottom dollar
• 1:02:37
  that we played about seven hours of Yak
• 1:02:39
  Dice between those two nights.
• 1:02:41
  >> And I want to just give a shout out to
• 1:02:44
  anybody with a Switch 2 that has
• 1:02:45
  Clubhouse Games, uh, Worldwide Classics,
• 1:02:48
  because if you have one and you have
• 1:02:50
  this game, you can play online with a
• 1:02:52
  friend who doesn't own the game through
• 1:02:55
  GameS Share. They added that in an
• 1:02:57
  update. Um, what a what a delightful
• 1:02:59
  game that I think, you know, sometimes I
• 1:03:03
  I get annoyed at games that I think are
• 1:03:05
  too um lacking in free will.
• 1:03:10
  >> You know, there are some games where
• 1:03:11
  it's just like you're flipping over a
• 1:03:12
  card and you're just kind of at the
• 1:03:13
  mercy of doing whatever, you know,
• 1:03:15
  there's not enough like active
• 1:03:17
  decision-m, but I think in Yak Dice,
• 1:03:19
  there's there's just enough like I'm
• 1:03:21
  going to use this in this slot. I'm
• 1:03:22
  going to use this in that slot. I beat
• 1:03:23
  Sarah last night even though she got
• 1:03:25
  yucked and I didn't. And it felt
• 1:03:26
  amazing. It felt amazing.
• 1:03:27
  >> So here here's what I find really
• 1:03:29
  interesting about it is that on its
• 1:03:30
  surface it feels like there's not a lot
• 1:03:31
  of strategy to it because it's just like
• 1:03:33
  oh just plug in what you've got. But
• 1:03:34
  actually
• 1:03:35
  >> like I was I was talking about in this
• 1:03:37
  piece like no no actually like there are
• 1:03:40
  there are ways to go about this where it
• 1:03:42
  leaves you open for higher scoring like
• 1:03:46
  end games if you are able to set things
• 1:03:47
  up properly in the first you know half
• 1:03:50
  of it or so. But
• 1:03:52
  >> something I've really been thinking
• 1:03:53
  about is not throwing away my my aces.
• 1:03:57
  Like
• 1:03:58
  >> why would you throw away your aces?
• 1:04:00
  >> Because you you think
• 1:04:01
  >> I know. No, I know. Because it only has
• 1:04:02
  the capacity to score five. But
• 1:04:05
  sometimes when you're you got to get 63
• 1:04:07
  to get that bonus,
• 1:04:08
  >> I'm like ending at like 61 or 62.
• 1:04:11
  >> If only I had thrown that away. Yes.
• 1:04:13
  >> And it's like then you're banking on
• 1:04:14
  yourself getting an extra six or an
• 1:04:16
  extra five or an extra, you know, and
• 1:04:18
  it's like that is that is that is really
• 1:04:19
  tough. So, what a what a fantastic game.
• 1:04:22
  I I've I've always said that that I
• 1:04:24
  think is one of the best games on the
• 1:04:25
  Switch. Now, it's one of the best games
• 1:04:26
  on the Switch, too. Um,
• 1:04:28
  >> and it's better I think it's maybe one
• 1:04:30
  of the best games of all time.
• 1:04:32
  >> I I think, you know, Resident Evil 4,
• 1:04:34
  Yak Dice, Dead Space 2.
• 1:04:36
  >> You know what's crazy? We played We
• 1:04:37
  played it was at the beach. There was uh
• 1:04:39
  at the beach house I stayed at on
• 1:04:40
  vacation. There was a box of yachts and
• 1:04:43
  I was like,
• 1:04:43
  >> you sh you sent the picture and I was
• 1:04:44
  like, "Oh my gosh, what I wouldn't give
• 1:04:46
  to be playing that at a table with my
• 1:04:47
  friends." The rules were different.
• 1:04:50
  >> What?
• 1:04:51
  >> Okay. There was a three of a kind. You
• 1:04:53
  could docked more than once and get and
• 1:04:56
  get additional points, which happened.
• 1:04:58
  >> Oh my gosh.
• 1:04:59
  >> And it was it was the way that the the
• 1:05:01
  points that you got for like the straits
• 1:05:03
  and stuff were completely different. I
• 1:05:04
  was like, "Oh my god, this is nuts." And
• 1:05:06
  I just want to I just want to say I
• 1:05:08
  haven't looked into this, but
• 1:05:09
  >> last week I got a PR email for an indie
• 1:05:12
  game and I couldn't believe it because
• 1:05:13
  it built itself as a yachts rogue like
• 1:05:19
  Steinberg.
• 1:05:20
  >> I was like, "How dare you? How dare you
• 1:05:21
  send this to me right now?" It's called
• 1:05:22
  Dice with Death.
• 1:05:24
  >> Did I get this as well? Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  >> Dice with Death.
• 1:05:28
  >> And it's um it's okay. A dice building
• 1:05:31
  rogike. Unfortunately, you have already
• 1:05:33
  died. Fortunately, Death is up for some
• 1:05:35
  friendly competition. Collect new dice
• 1:05:37
  and relics and create damage stacking
• 1:05:39
  combos and even cheat death himself to
• 1:05:41
  emerge victorious. And when you look at
• 1:05:42
  the screenshots, it's like literally
• 1:05:44
  yatsi. It's literally
• 1:05:46
  >> It is. It is. Wait, can we should we did
• 1:05:49
  you where did this email go? The
• 1:05:51
  critical error email or the or the
• 1:05:52
  >> It went to me. It went to me. It went to
• 1:05:54
  me. But I didn't say anything to them
• 1:05:55
  because it took me too long to realize.
• 1:05:56
  But maybe I've got to follow up now.
• 1:05:58
  >> Maybe you have to.
• 1:05:59
  >> All right.
• 1:06:00
  >> Cuz also the visuals on this look are
• 1:06:01
  kind of cool. This like skeleton
• 1:06:02
  looking.
• 1:06:02
  >> I know. I know. It's the daily deal
• 1:06:05
  right now. It's 50% off.
• 1:06:08
  >> Oh my gosh.
• 1:06:08
  >> All right.
• 1:06:09
  >> Oh, yeah. It just came out like two days
• 1:06:11
  ago.
• 1:06:11
  >> I'm going to I'm going to report back to
• 1:06:13
  uh Seaglass Games about Dice with Death.
• 1:06:16
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:06:18
  >> Well, thank thank you for sharing. I'm
• 1:06:20
  glad we could delight in Yak Dice. I
• 1:06:22
  wonder if any listeners out there are
• 1:06:23
  like, "Oh, Clubhouse Games." If if
• 1:06:25
  you're a Clubhouse Games player, I'd
• 1:06:27
  like to know which one has grabbed you
• 1:06:29
  because I love Yakad Dice. I also love
• 1:06:31
  Sixball Puzzle. you do like six sixball
• 1:06:33
  puzzle. Me and Christian had a lot of
• 1:06:35
  fun playing uh the darts on there.
• 1:06:38
  Yeah. Um I'll also say this. I was
• 1:06:41
  thinking about like using this as maybe
• 1:06:44
  uh a jumping off point to make a video
• 1:06:47
  like my bonus video for this month on
• 1:06:49
  like Patreon and Nebula about Yak Dice
• 1:06:52
  and just like calling it like a video
• 1:06:55
  you will not watch about Yatsi.
• 1:06:57
  >> That's good. That's good
• 1:06:58
  >> because it's like if you know you know.
• 1:06:59
  You know what I mean? It's like, "Hey,
• 1:07:00
  everyone who's gathered here, welcome to
• 1:07:02
  the club of people who know how good
• 1:07:04
  Yatsi is." Like, cuz I think
• 1:07:07
  >> maybe on our on our our other podcast,
• 1:07:09
  Handheld Boost, maybe I feel like we
• 1:07:11
  could do a whole episode about yacht
• 1:07:12
  dance. Honestly, I because I I'm really
• 1:07:14
  with you in that the strategy of it and
• 1:07:17
  kind of like when you choose to make a
• 1:07:20
  bet on yourself and like what you choose
• 1:07:22
  to pursue, that choice you make after
• 1:07:24
  the first role to me is like we're
• 1:07:26
  gaming, baby. There's something there's
• 1:07:28
  something about it too where it's like
• 1:07:29
  it is a game that like
• 1:07:31
  >> you can track if you lost like oh I
• 1:07:35
  chose to bet on this and if it doesn't
• 1:07:39
  happen I can say like that was the
• 1:07:41
  moment and those kinds of like like uh
• 1:07:43
  turning point choices. Come on. That's
• 1:07:45
  that's what that's what gaming's about,
• 1:07:47
  baby.
• 1:07:47
  >> Oh my god, it's so good. Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  >> Um I the other thing too is that I want
• 1:07:51
  to hear from people what games they like
• 1:07:52
  in the 51 worldwide classics or whatever
• 1:07:54
  it is. But
• 1:07:56
  >> I want to try some more with you over
• 1:07:58
  the online because there are games I've
• 1:08:00
  never played because they require two
• 1:08:02
  separate screens and normally I only
• 1:08:03
  play this game locally. So with with the
• 1:08:05
  game chat with the game share, we got to
• 1:08:07
  we got to dip into some of those and see
• 1:08:08
  what other greatest games of all time
• 1:08:10
  are hiding from us.
• 1:08:11
  >> 100%. Maybe Uno cuz I think they've got
• 1:08:12
  a version of Uno on there. I would love
• 1:08:14
  to play Uno and all those card games
• 1:08:16
  where it's like like the pokeresque one.
• 1:08:18
  >> Yeah, it's like a Texas Holdem one, too.
• 1:08:20
  Like, yes,
• 1:08:21
  >> the blackjack was so fun. We had such a
• 1:08:22
  good time playing blackjack when we were
• 1:08:24
  all together. Oh my
• 1:08:25
  >> what a what a time to be alive. All
• 1:08:27
  right, thank you everybody for
• 1:08:28
  listening. We're talking about some
• 1:08:30
  video game ass video games at the end of
• 1:08:31
  this podcast. I tell you what, my god.
• 1:08:35
  We will see you next week.
• 1:08:36
  patreon.com/critical error. Support the
• 1:08:38
  show and get some really, really good
• 1:08:40
  bonus content. This week we finally took
• 1:08:42
  a break from glazing Pokemon Fire Red
• 1:08:44
  and Leaf Green, but oh boy, do I just
• 1:08:48
  want to talk about those more. Oh,
• 1:08:49
  >> I know. I know. And we took a break from
• 1:08:50
  glazing those games and I think instead
• 1:08:52
  just glazed the concept of the Switch 2.
• 1:08:55
  Um, so really groundbreaking stuff from
• 1:08:58
  us this week.
• 1:09:02
  I'll catch you next week. Bye.