Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #15: Screen Tsunami

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#15: Screen Tsunami · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.
0:06
Speaker 2: This is episode fifteen of the Happy Families podcast. My
0:10
Speaker 2: name is doctor Justin Coulson, and this is the podcast
0:13
Speaker 2: that's dedicated.
0:14
Speaker 1: To making your family happier.
0:16
Speaker 2: In today's podcast, how to have a healthy relationship with
0:20
Speaker 2: your phone, we're talking tech, the way it's affecting our families,
0:23
Speaker 2: the way it's affecting our children, and even the way.
0:26
Speaker 1: It's affecting us the parents.
0:28
Speaker 2: Also, I've received a question for three minute therapy that
0:31
Speaker 2: I'm going to chat with you about today, looking at
0:33
Speaker 2: this idea of odd opposition or defied disorder and how
0:37
Speaker 2: it works, and also whether or not reward charts can
0:40
Speaker 2: help a child.
0:40
Speaker 1: Who is really really oppositional.
0:43
Speaker 2: We'll chat about that shortly first though, As always with
0:46
Speaker 2: the Happy Families podcast, it's sixty seconds psychology. The way
0:50
Speaker 2: it works is, I've got sixty seconds to tell you
0:52
Speaker 2: about a recent study that's relevant to our topic today.
0:55
Speaker 1: We're looking at technology and families.
0:57
Speaker 2: And the one that I'm going to share with you today,
0:59
Speaker 2: I think you're really really interesting. Once sixty seconds is up, Russell,
1:04
Speaker 2: my producer, is going to make some sort of unfortunate
1:07
Speaker 2: sound to tell me that I really had to have stopped,
1:09
Speaker 2: and that's sixty seconds to give you the science without
1:11
Speaker 2: all of the psychobabble and cobbledygook.
1:14
Speaker 1: And we're going to get started right now. So.
1:17
Speaker 2: Researchers at the University of Washington and the University of
1:21
Speaker 2: Michigan have surveyed two hundred and forty nine families with
1:24
Speaker 2: children who were aged between ten and seventeen, and they
1:27
Speaker 2: asked about their household's most important tech rules and expectations,
1:31
Speaker 2: as well as what made.
1:31
Speaker 1: Those rules easier or harder to follow.
1:34
Speaker 2: When researchers ask children what technology rules they wished their
1:38
Speaker 2: parents would follow, which is not what you hear about
1:41
Speaker 2: all the time, the answers fell into seven interesting and
1:44
Speaker 2: general categories. The first was parents need to be present.
1:47
Speaker 2: It's felt that there should be no technology at all
1:50
Speaker 2: in certain situations, like when a child's trying to talk
1:52
Speaker 2: to a parent.
1:53
Speaker 1: The children wanted more autonomy.
1:55
Speaker 2: They felt that parents should allow them to make their
1:56
Speaker 2: own decisions about technology without interference. They suggested that parents
2:01
Speaker 2: need to moderate their used Parents should use tech in
2:04
Speaker 2: moderation and in balance with other activities. They also said
2:07
Speaker 2: no tech while driving, no hypocrisy.
2:11
Speaker 1: Parents have got to practice.
2:12
Speaker 2: What they preach, including at meal times and no oversharing.
2:14
Speaker 2: Parents are sharing too much information. That's sixty seconds. I
2:19
Speaker 2: thought I was going to get there today. I didn't
2:21
Speaker 2: quite make it. The other thing that I didn't mention
2:23
Speaker 2: that parents were told by children was that parents should
2:27
Speaker 2: establish and enforce technology related rules for children's own protection.
2:31
Speaker 2: In other words, kids said, we need some sort of supervision.
2:36
Speaker 2: I'll try and get it into sixty seconds next fortnite
2:39
Speaker 2: when we do the podcast again with sixty second psychology.
2:43
Speaker 1: But I've got a question for you, and I'm going
2:44
Speaker 1: to ask this a couple of times.
2:45
Speaker 2: What's the biggest issue that you face when it comes
2:48
Speaker 2: to your children and technology? You can leave your answers
2:51
Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com. Do I use slash podcast
2:54
Speaker 2: slash fifteen as in the number fifteen? What is the
2:58
Speaker 2: biggest issue you face when it comes to your children
3:01
Speaker 2: and technology? I asked a bunch of parents and they
3:05
Speaker 2: told me.
3:06
Speaker 3: This ah to keep them off the video games.
3:09
Speaker 1: I'm probably learning their time.
3:10
Speaker 4: On it keeping them off it.
3:12
Speaker 3: Um. I guess probably that they know more than I do.
3:16
Speaker 2: Kids and technology, bidding and battling the screen tsunami.
3:20
Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about this right after the break.
3:23
Speaker 5: Most children are born curious and confident. They love to
3:26
Speaker 5: explore the world, meet new friends, and try new things.
3:29
Speaker 5: But between the ages of two and twelve, confidence often
3:32
Speaker 5: drops off. Why and how can we rebuild it? Creating
3:36
Speaker 5: Confident Kids is an easy to read ebook for busy
3:38
Speaker 5: parents where you'll discover the five biggest mistakes most parents
3:41
Speaker 5: may that crush their kids' confidence, and the five best
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Speaker 5: confidence boosters for building resilience and well being in your children.
3:48
Speaker 5: Creating Confident Kids by doctor Justin Coulson at Happy families
3:52
Speaker 5: dot com dot A.
3:53
Speaker 2: Youu it's the Happy Family's podcast. I'm doctor Justin Coulson.
3:57
Speaker 2: We're talking the screen tsunami the Internet INVA. A little
4:01
Speaker 2: while ago, I mentioned in sixty second Psychology a fascinating
4:04
Speaker 2: study about the rules around screen time and how kids
4:08
Speaker 2: feel like mums and dads are kind of behind the curve.
4:11
Speaker 2: They're getting it a bit wrong, by the way, I'll
4:13
Speaker 2: post the link to that study in the show notes
4:16
Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com dot AU slash podcast Slash fifteen.
4:22
Speaker 1: So here's the situation.
4:23
Speaker 2: You're busy doing stuff, you send the kids off to
4:25
Speaker 2: their rooms or to the lounge room or the playroom,
4:27
Speaker 2: rumpus room so that they can amuse themselves and give
4:29
Speaker 2: you some space. And unsurprisingly, they pick up their screens
4:34
Speaker 2: and they don't want to put them down when you
4:36
Speaker 2: say that's it. Times up, So what do you do?
4:39
Speaker 2: I stalked those parents at the school gate once again
4:42
Speaker 2: this week, and some of the parents said that their
4:45
Speaker 2: children are on their devices too much.
4:48
Speaker 3: If you're letting me, probably play fourteen hours a.
4:51
Speaker 1: Day, So how many does he actually get.
4:54
Speaker 6: Weekdays it doesn't get much, but weekends probably four to
5:01
Speaker 6: six hours.
5:02
Speaker 1: Four to six hours a day on the weekend.
5:05
Speaker 3: Well, I can't have that's a lot. Half an hour
5:08
Speaker 3: a day.
5:08
Speaker 2: I asked one mum what she thought the best way
5:10
Speaker 2: to respond to screen time challenges was, and she just deferred, Oh, I.
5:14
Speaker 4: Guess my husband's pretty much more up to date on
5:17
Speaker 4: that sort of stuff, so he monitors.
5:18
Speaker 3: Them and sort of knows what they're doing and that
5:21
Speaker 3: sort of thing. You just defer to him. I just defer.
5:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:25
Speaker 2: So there's all sorts of different ways that we can
5:28
Speaker 2: deal with this challenge. I asked for some solutions to
5:31
Speaker 2: the different issues that parents are facing when it comes
5:34
Speaker 2: to screen times. I mean, do they ever say no
5:37
Speaker 2: when you tell the kids to get off their screens?
5:39
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, most of the time. So how do you
5:42
Speaker 1: deal with that?
5:43
Speaker 2: So generally say that if they're not sort of obedient,
5:46
Speaker 2: they're not going to get it tomorrow.
5:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. And how's that work for you?
5:49
Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty good?
5:50
Speaker 3: Actually?
5:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, And here was some other responses for how we
5:54
Speaker 2: can get our kids off their screen.
5:55
Speaker 4: We try and use a time limit where they know
6:00
Speaker 4: they'll get thirty minutes of technology and they can choose
6:04
Speaker 4: between their technologies, be it on the PC or be
6:08
Speaker 4: it on the iPad. And it works very well with
6:11
Speaker 4: my ten year old daughter, but not so well with
6:14
Speaker 4: my six year old son.
6:15
Speaker 2: Do you get sick of having the monitor the time
6:17
Speaker 2: all the time and keep an eye on exactly how
6:20
Speaker 2: long they've been on and what they've been doing.
6:22
Speaker 1: Do you just sort of think why do I have
6:23
Speaker 1: to do this? No?
6:26
Speaker 4: We actually use the timer on the kitchen oven and
6:28
Speaker 4: they know that when they hear it that times up.
6:33
Speaker 3: You're still quite fond of the screen.
6:35
Speaker 6: But if we're trying to get him off the video
6:36
Speaker 6: games and trying to get him onto Google and looking
6:39
Speaker 6: the documentaries or what we started is we've started giving
6:45
Speaker 6: him some topics. Last week you did on a little
6:50
Speaker 6: bit of a research sort of a thing on aircraft
6:53
Speaker 6: and things like that. Thinks that he likes or he
6:55
Speaker 6: would we think he's going to like, and we try
6:58
Speaker 6: to get him to go and find out.
7:00
Speaker 2: In this podcast, we're looking at how to make the
7:03
Speaker 2: Internet invasion, the screen tsunami, less cumbersome, less exhausting, and
7:08
Speaker 2: less outright punishing on our entire family.
7:10
Speaker 1: I mean, screens are here to stay.
7:12
Speaker 2: And our kids are all over them. They know more
7:15
Speaker 2: than we do in many cases, and they want to
7:17
Speaker 2: be on there. It's where their friends are and it's
7:19
Speaker 2: where they hang out.
7:20
Speaker 1: Today.
7:22
Speaker 2: I was doing some research to find out how much
7:24
Speaker 2: they're using their screens. One study that I stumbled upon
7:27
Speaker 2: said that teenagers are sending on average three thousand, three
7:30
Speaker 2: hundred text messages every month on their devices. Girls tend
7:35
Speaker 2: to send more, apparently about four thousand and fifty, but
7:37
Speaker 2: the average is three thousand, three hundred. Now, I'm not
7:40
Speaker 2: sure how they collected that data and how they were
7:43
Speaker 2: able to devise the info. I'm just reporting on it,
7:45
Speaker 2: but you work it out. That's over one hundred per
7:47
Speaker 2: day if we go with that average of thirty three hundred. Now,
7:50
Speaker 2: let's assume that kids are awake for fifteen hours a day.
7:53
Speaker 2: That's seven point three text messages per hour, or one
7:58
Speaker 2: every eight point two minutes. That's not including any snapchats,
8:01
Speaker 2: any Kick messages, any Instagram messages, any Facebook messages, any
8:05
Speaker 2: Twitter messages, any Tumble messages, any What's Up messages, WhatsApp messages, and.
8:09
Speaker 1: Any of that sort of stuff.
8:10
Speaker 2: We're talking tremendous numbers of messages and social interaction going
8:15
Speaker 2: on on devices all day, every day with our teenagers. Now,
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Speaker 2: is all of this problem? Are we being silly as
8:23
Speaker 2: parents by telling our kids to get off the phone,
8:25
Speaker 2: and are we exacerbating the problem by our example. I
8:29
Speaker 2: think the answer to the first question is no, we're
8:31
Speaker 2: not being silly. The answer to the second question is yes,
8:33
Speaker 2: we're being a terrible example. On average, parents are making
8:37
Speaker 2: a lot of mistakes and setting and modeling entirely the
8:42
Speaker 2: wrong example for our kids. So let's go through three
8:45
Speaker 2: reasons that we need to get our screen time balanced.
8:49
Speaker 1: Well.
8:50
Speaker 2: Reason number one's affecting our social relationships. I want to
8:53
Speaker 2: tell you about a couple of studies. There was one
8:54
Speaker 2: experiment conducted last year. There were fifty one kids that
8:58
Speaker 2: were sent off to summer camp, an American study. Obviously,
9:01
Speaker 2: in Australia we don't have so many summer camps. But
9:03
Speaker 2: in the US, these kids, fifty one of them went
9:05
Speaker 2: off on a five day summer camp where there was
9:07
Speaker 2: no screens, no TVs, no computers, no phones, nothing not allowed.
9:12
Speaker 2: And they were compared with fifty four children who stayed
9:14
Speaker 2: home and used their devices the way they normally would. Now,
9:17
Speaker 2: both groups took some tests before and after the camp,
9:21
Speaker 2: and the tests asked participants to have a look at
9:25
Speaker 2: some videos and some photographs and infer the emotional states
9:30
Speaker 2: of the people in the images. There were no verbal
9:33
Speaker 2: cues in the in the videos, by the way, it
9:35
Speaker 2: was just silent stuff. After five days of interacting face
9:39
Speaker 2: to face with no screens, the recognition that the children
9:44
Speaker 2: have who had gone to summer camp of the nonverbal
9:48
Speaker 2: emotion cues was significantly more than that of the control
9:52
Speaker 2: group for both facial expression in the photos and also
9:55
Speaker 2: the videotape scenes. It seems like time with friends combined
9:58
Speaker 2: with time away from screen improves social and emotional intelligence
10:04
Speaker 2: in just five days. Here's another interesting study Netta Weinstein,
10:08
Speaker 2: one of one of my favorite researchers. Canadian researcher did
10:13
Speaker 2: some work with some colleagues where she asked pairs of
10:15
Speaker 2: strangers to talk about what she defined as a moderately
10:19
Speaker 2: intimate topic. And what we're talking about here is an
10:22
Speaker 2: interesting event that had occurred to a person in the
10:25
Speaker 2: last month or so. And these two strangers had to
10:27
Speaker 2: talk for ten minutes about this moderately interesting and intimate event.
10:33
Speaker 2: They had to leave their own belongings outside the laboratory
10:37
Speaker 2: and they walked into this private booth. Now within the booth,
10:40
Speaker 2: they found two chairs facing each other and just out
10:43
Speaker 2: of their line of sight, but on a desk nearby
10:46
Speaker 2: there was.
10:46
Speaker 1: A book and one other item.
10:48
Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to the pair, The key difference in their interactions
10:51
Speaker 2: was go to be the second item on the desk.
10:54
Speaker 2: Some pairs had their conversations with a mobile phone on
10:58
Speaker 2: the desk, while other pairs chatted while there was a
11:01
Speaker 2: notebook laying nearby. Once they'd finished their discussion, each of
11:05
Speaker 2: the strangers finished some questionnaires about the relationship quality and
11:08
Speaker 2: the level of connectness that they felt in the conversation.
11:11
Speaker 2: The level of closeness that they experienced. And what the
11:14
Speaker 2: research has found was that the pairs who chatted with
11:17
Speaker 2: a mobile phone on the desk, even though it wasn't
11:20
Speaker 2: either of theirs, and even though it didn't do anything,
11:23
Speaker 2: it was just sort of out of the line of sight,
11:26
Speaker 2: they reported lower relationship quality and less closeness. Bizarre they
11:31
Speaker 2: did a follow up study. This time they were looking
11:34
Speaker 2: at what was being talked about. In one context, participants
11:38
Speaker 2: were asked to talk about their thoughts and feelings about
11:40
Speaker 2: plastic trees not very important. In the other context, they
11:43
Speaker 2: were to discuss a meaningful topic, one of the most
11:46
Speaker 2: important things that had happened to them during the past year,
11:49
Speaker 2: once again either a notepad or a mobile phone on
11:52
Speaker 2: the desk near them.
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Speaker 1: Once again, the findings were consistent.
11:56
Speaker 2: When they were answering questions about relationship quality, of trust,
12:01
Speaker 2: the empathy they felt from their discussion partners, it seemed
12:04
Speaker 2: that the people who were having a conversation with a
12:06
Speaker 2: mobile telephone in the vicinity pretty much said, yeah, I
12:09
Speaker 2: didn't get the feeling that the relationship was quite there.
12:11
Speaker 1: The levels of connection weren't quite there. Now.
12:14
Speaker 2: I had a chat with a teenager recently who said
12:16
Speaker 2: she'd been to visit a friend in a state. They'd
12:19
Speaker 2: moved into state a while ago, and they missed their friends,
12:21
Speaker 2: so she went off in a state to visit with
12:24
Speaker 2: her friend.
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Speaker 1: She said, the whole time I was with my friend,
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Speaker 1: she was just texting.
12:27
Speaker 2: She even went to the bathroom for about fifteen minutes
12:29
Speaker 2: and took her phone just so that she could text
12:30
Speaker 2: her friends and not have to deal with me in
12:33
Speaker 2: the environment. She said, it was really uncomfortable the whole
12:35
Speaker 2: time that I was there. But when I got dropped
12:37
Speaker 2: off at the airport, as soon as I'd gone into
12:39
Speaker 2: the airport and checked my baggage and gone through security,
12:42
Speaker 2: my phone started sort of, you know, buzzing, And here's
12:46
Speaker 2: this friend who had barely conversed with it for the
12:49
Speaker 2: duration of her stay, saying all this stuff like I
12:52
Speaker 2: missed you so much and so great to be with you.
12:54
Speaker 1: I forgot to tell you this, and I'll by the way,
12:57
Speaker 1: you know, all that kind of thing.
12:58
Speaker 2: Relationships are affected by our mobile devices, whether we're in
13:02
Speaker 2: friendships or whether we're in families, and we need to
13:05
Speaker 2: make sure that we're not letting our devices affect our
13:08
Speaker 2: friendships too much and our relationships too much. So here's
13:11
Speaker 2: a question to consider. Is using my phone while I'm
13:14
Speaker 2: with this person going to grow our relationship or interfere
13:18
Speaker 2: with our relationship? The study in sixty second Psychology suggests
13:22
Speaker 2: kids wish we would put our phones down more.
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Speaker 1: Okay, here's the second thing to consider.
13:26
Speaker 2: How is our device usage affecting our health? How many
13:30
Speaker 2: hours of sleep do we need a night. Research suggests
13:33
Speaker 2: that adults usually need somewhere at between seven and nine hours. Teenages,
13:36
Speaker 2: by the way, need around about nine and a half.
13:39
Speaker 2: When we go to sleep, our body produces something called melotone,
13:42
Speaker 2: and it helps us to fall asleep. Researchers have discovered
13:46
Speaker 2: that when we have as little as a couple of
13:49
Speaker 2: hours of exposure to the light emitted from our devices,
13:54
Speaker 2: we see our melotonin production decrease by around about twenty
13:59
Speaker 2: two percent. So if we're trying to go to sleep
14:03
Speaker 2: but we're on our devices, we're going to struggle. In
14:05
Speaker 2: addition to that, we get stimulated by our devices, by
14:07
Speaker 2: our games, and with all of that excitation in our brain,
14:12
Speaker 2: all this dope meine buzzing around. That's a neurochemical that
14:15
Speaker 2: makes us feel really good. With all of this buzzing around,
14:18
Speaker 2: what happens is our brain struggles to relax. The screen
14:22
Speaker 2: suppresses our melotonin and we can't go to sleep. It
14:25
Speaker 2: interrupts our sleep, and then we wake up tied the
14:28
Speaker 2: next morning because we haven't had good quality sleep because
14:30
Speaker 2: we were up too late, We didn't get enough of it,
14:32
Speaker 2: and the quality was lower because we had interrupted sleep.
14:35
Speaker 2: Combine that with the fact that quite often we sleep
14:38
Speaker 2: with our mobile.
14:38
Speaker 1: Phones in our rooms and during the.
14:40
Speaker 2: Night somebody might facebook us or somebody might send us
14:42
Speaker 2: a text message, and that wakes us up. That glow
14:45
Speaker 2: illuminates the ceiling of our room, and we're not getting
14:49
Speaker 2: to go through the different stages of sleep that are
14:52
Speaker 2: so important for healthy sleep hygiene. While we're asleep, we
14:56
Speaker 2: need to go through the four stages of sleep. We
14:58
Speaker 2: need to go into ram sleep. The reason for that
15:00
Speaker 2: is because it consolidates our learning. It helps our body
15:03
Speaker 2: to rest properly. We go through a process, especially our teenagers,
15:06
Speaker 2: called something something called synaptic pruning, which gets rid of
15:10
Speaker 2: a whole lot of stuff in our brain that doesn't
15:11
Speaker 2: need to be there.
15:13
Speaker 1: When we're asleep and.
15:13
Speaker 2: We're going through these phases of sleep, our brain gets
15:16
Speaker 2: rid of a whole lot of junk byproducts. The physiology
15:19
Speaker 2: of our brain actually changes our body looks after itself better.
15:23
Speaker 2: In fact, sleep is related to growth hormone production. Our
15:27
Speaker 2: teenagers grow better. People who don't sleep enough at greater
15:30
Speaker 2: risk of experiencing obesity and overweight. So it's more than
15:34
Speaker 2: just shutting our eyes. So what can we do about this, Well,
15:37
Speaker 2: here's a couple of ideas. We can actually put our
15:40
Speaker 2: phone on flight mode when we go to sleep, or
15:42
Speaker 2: we can put it in another room so it's not
15:44
Speaker 2: going to bother us. My question here is using my
15:47
Speaker 2: phone now go to help me to sleep or is
15:50
Speaker 2: it going to wreck me for tomorrow? Am I going
15:51
Speaker 2: to be a better parent because I'm surfing Facebook or
15:54
Speaker 2: news dot com dot Au? Or am I going to
15:56
Speaker 2: be a better parent if I just shut the thing
15:58
Speaker 2: off and go to sleep. And the third thing that
16:00
Speaker 2: we need to look at is whether or not our
16:02
Speaker 2: devices affect our well being.
16:03
Speaker 1: Fascinating study.
16:05
Speaker 2: Joseph Cherokei, one of my former colleagues from the University
16:07
Speaker 2: of Wollongongen now at the Australian Catholic University, has been
16:09
Speaker 2: doing a longitudinal study for the last or nearly a
16:12
Speaker 2: decade now surveying Ossie teens and looking at their health
16:16
Speaker 2: and wellbeing and their lifestyle factors and things like the
16:19
Speaker 2: way their parents are raising them. And He's discovered in
16:22
Speaker 2: a recent study published with two thousand and sixty eight
16:25
Speaker 2: children here in Australia, following them from grade eight to
16:29
Speaker 2: grade eleven, that the more they use the internet, the
16:33
Speaker 2: poorer their mental health. But the reverse is not true.
16:35
Speaker 2: People don't seem to develop any sort of compulsive Internet
16:38
Speaker 2: use because of poor mental health. It seems that internet addiction,
16:42
Speaker 2: screen addiction, spending too much time online leads to lower
16:46
Speaker 2: mental health. Here's another interesting thing. Use of screens increases
16:51
Speaker 2: through high school, but especially in the year eight to
16:53
Speaker 2: nine period plus. It interferes with capacity to study well,
16:57
Speaker 2: to get into flow, to sleep, to process information. All
17:02
Speaker 2: of this stuff happens at a lower level, which leads
17:05
Speaker 2: to poorer outcomes for our kids.
17:07
Speaker 1: So three things to consider.
17:08
Speaker 2: Number One, technology does affect our relationships all too often
17:12
Speaker 2: in negative ways. Same with sleep, and same with wellbeing.
17:15
Speaker 1: It affects our sleep and our well being.
17:17
Speaker 2: All too often in negative ways. So that prompts the
17:20
Speaker 2: question is technology bad? Well, yes, of course no. Now
17:25
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, No, it's not. Technology is wonderful, but
17:29
Speaker 2: we've got to have some serious conversations about technology in
17:33
Speaker 2: our families and get our technology use right. So these
17:37
Speaker 2: are my top three tips. There are many, many, many
17:39
Speaker 2: more tips that I could give you, but these are
17:41
Speaker 2: my three favorite. I hope that they help. Tip number one,
17:44
Speaker 2: no phones or devices or screens for at least thirty
17:48
Speaker 2: minutes before bed, and put your phone on flight mode
17:51
Speaker 2: while you sleep. That will help you with your sleeping.
17:54
Speaker 2: Number two. If you try to do anything at all
17:57
Speaker 2: that's important, whether it's study or whether it's work, turn
17:59
Speaker 2: your phone onto flight mode. That way you can get
18:02
Speaker 2: into flow and you'll be more productive and you'll remember more.
18:06
Speaker 2: And tip number three if you're having dinner, maybe you've
18:10
Speaker 2: gone out with friends or with family. If you're having
18:13
Speaker 2: dinner and somebody's phone rings, they're not allowed to pick
18:18
Speaker 2: it up. Whoever picks it up has to do something uncomfortable.
18:20
Speaker 2: I know when I go with friends. When Kylie and
18:22
Speaker 2: I go out with friends, if anybody looks at the phone,
18:25
Speaker 2: phones are all in pockets or on the table screen down.
18:29
Speaker 2: If anybody looks at their phone during dinner, they pay
18:31
Speaker 2: for dinner. Maybe you can come up with something fun
18:33
Speaker 2: like that. In the family, whoever looks at their phone
18:35
Speaker 2: or their screen during dinner time has to do the
18:37
Speaker 2: dishes or has to do something else that's sufficiently uncomfortable,
18:42
Speaker 2: but not as a punishment, but as fun to highlight
18:44
Speaker 2: the importance of keeping screen switched off. So my question
18:47
Speaker 2: for this week's a really simple one. What one thing
18:49
Speaker 2: can your family agree on to get the balance right
18:52
Speaker 2: with tech and not get swept away by this screen tsunami.
18:56
Speaker 2: You can go to Happy Families dot com dot au,
18:59
Speaker 2: slash podcast Slash fifteen and tell me what you think.
19:03
Speaker 1: I'm eager to hear what's happening for you.
19:04
Speaker 7: Doctor Justin Coulson is one of Australia's most respected parenting voices.
19:09
Speaker 7: His seminars have equipped and empowered thousands of parents to
19:12
Speaker 7: make their families happier. But sometimes getting to a parenting
19:15
Speaker 7: seminar can be tough his work and other commitments. Then
19:19
Speaker 7: there's the issue of the children and babysitters. Now you
19:22
Speaker 7: can watch one of doctor Justin's seminars from the comfort
19:26
Speaker 7: of your own home and at a time that works
19:28
Speaker 7: for you. Sit in on one of doctor Justin's parenting seminars.
19:32
Speaker 7: As he takes you from confusion to clarity. You'll learn
19:36
Speaker 7: how to build a strong connection with your children, how
19:38
Speaker 7: to really understand them, and how to get discipline right.
19:42
Speaker 7: What your child needs from you. A seminar from doctor
19:45
Speaker 7: Justin Coulson. Download this ninety minute seminar now or purchase
19:49
Speaker 7: the DVD at Happy families dot com dot au.
19:53
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Family's podcast. I'm doctor Justin Coulson for
19:56
Speaker 2: today's three minute therapy. We're moving away from the screen
19:59
Speaker 2: top for a while, and I'm responding to a parent
20:02
Speaker 2: who's asking me this. She wrote, Dear doctor Justin, my
20:05
Speaker 2: son just turned five. He's always been energetic. We didn't
20:08
Speaker 2: know anyone with kids prior to him, so we always
20:10
Speaker 2: just accepted this as normal, but a lot of hard work.
20:13
Speaker 2: As he got older, his behavior became worse, hitting, yelling,
20:16
Speaker 2: and so on. Towards the end of last year, we
20:19
Speaker 2: had a preschool field officer witness a meltdown which resulted
20:22
Speaker 2: in another child at my son's kindergarten being hurt.
20:25
Speaker 1: She recommended we seek some assistance. We did so.
20:29
Speaker 2: We did all the tests, did all the assessments, but
20:31
Speaker 2: couldn't place him in any category but very close to
20:34
Speaker 2: the adhd Odd area. She recommended that we seek some
20:38
Speaker 2: regular appointments, but we required a referral for this, She said,
20:41
Speaker 2: we went to a pediatrician. The pediatrician investigated and said
20:44
Speaker 2: there was nothing wrong, and then asked us to do
20:46
Speaker 2: a behavior chart with rewards. This is a new We've
20:49
Speaker 2: tried it before, and needless to say, despite our best efforts,
20:52
Speaker 2: it isn't working. Our son's behavior is getting worse. He's
20:55
Speaker 2: just started school. He's hurt several children and teachers and
20:58
Speaker 2: had to be forcibly moved from certain situations for the
21:01
Speaker 2: safety of the other kids. I feel guilty he's hurting
21:04
Speaker 2: so many people. I feel guilty that I'm pushing for
21:07
Speaker 2: some sort of diagnosis. I feel guilty that if there's
21:09
Speaker 2: something there, nothing's happening because the pediatrician is saying nothing's wrong.
21:13
Speaker 2: I'm scared. He's a big kid. We can't control him.
21:16
Speaker 2: What are we going to do in a few years time.
21:17
Speaker 2: I'm at a loss.
21:19
Speaker 1: And I need help. So here's my response.
21:21
Speaker 2: And the first thing that I would say is, maybe
21:23
Speaker 2: this little guy's just not quite ready for school.
21:25
Speaker 1: Maybe he just.
21:26
Speaker 2: Needs to mature a little bit, but I want to
21:28
Speaker 2: deal with two specific challenges over the next three minutes,
21:31
Speaker 2: oppositional defiant disorder and reward charts, and then I'm going
21:36
Speaker 2: to quickly turn to some solutions.
21:37
Speaker 1: That will work. Let's start with the ODD.
21:39
Speaker 2: So according to the DSM five, which is the Diagnostic
21:41
Speaker 2: and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which is basically the
21:45
Speaker 2: psychiatry and psychology Bible, ODD patterns of behavior fall into
21:50
Speaker 2: three categories.
21:51
Speaker 1: Angry and irritable mood.
21:52
Speaker 2: This is when a child loses their temper, is touchy,
21:55
Speaker 2: easily annoyed, angry, resentful, also argumentative defiant behavior. This is
22:01
Speaker 2: when a child argues with adults and people in authority
22:04
Speaker 2: and actively defies or refuses to comply with any requests
22:08
Speaker 2: and deliberately annoys people and blames others when there's problems.
22:12
Speaker 2: And then there's vindictiveness. We see this when a child
22:15
Speaker 2: is spiteful or vindictive. If they've done that in the
22:19
Speaker 2: last few months, then we would suggest that there could
22:22
Speaker 2: be a problem here. Now, for a child to be
22:23
Speaker 2: diagnosed with ODD, the child must have at least four
22:26
Speaker 2: of the symptoms that I've just mentioned. They have to
22:28
Speaker 2: demonstrate defiance with at least one individual who is not
22:31
Speaker 2: a sibling and have significant problems at school or at
22:34
Speaker 2: home because of the defiance. And it has to be
22:37
Speaker 2: occurring on its own rather than be part of another
22:39
Speaker 2: mental health problem. And it needs to be going on
22:42
Speaker 2: for at least six months. Now, there's a handful of
22:44
Speaker 2: other things to consider. I won't go into them here.
22:46
Speaker 2: You can look them up by googling positional definant disorder
22:49
Speaker 2: on the internet. You'll find everything that you need to
22:50
Speaker 2: know there. But here's my first question.
22:52
Speaker 1: Is this normal.
22:53
Speaker 2: Behavior for children or is it brad ininness or is
22:56
Speaker 2: it actually a mental disorder? See, the great challenge is
22:59
Speaker 2: that many of them, these problems are really normal for children.
23:03
Speaker 1: ODD gives a label to challenging behavior.
23:07
Speaker 2: What that can do sometimes is it can allow us
23:09
Speaker 2: to get extra support, It can allow us to get medication.
23:11
Speaker 1: But my feeling is that such an.
23:13
Speaker 2: Approach actually disempowers both you as a parent and your child.
23:17
Speaker 2: Except in the most serious of situations. It's really easy
23:19
Speaker 2: to just say, well, I'm the victim of this label.
23:22
Speaker 2: I can't do anything. It's a medical condition. The real
23:26
Speaker 2: question to me is what's causing the problem. Is it biology,
23:28
Speaker 2: is it psychology or relationships, or school or something else
23:31
Speaker 2: in his environment, something contextual, Because if a child's angry
23:35
Speaker 2: and defiant, this means that they don't like what's going
23:38
Speaker 2: on and they're saying something about it.
23:39
Speaker 1: Now, this is a good thing. They might be.
23:42
Speaker 2: Expressing their dislike and their discontent in some really inconvenient
23:46
Speaker 2: ways and even downright hostile ways, but we can work
23:50
Speaker 2: through this. Being upset about something doesn't mean that a
23:53
Speaker 2: child is disordered. It means that they need to be understood,
23:57
Speaker 2: which brings us to reward charts. Many medical practitioners, pediatricians,
24:00
Speaker 2: and even psychology experts go straight to what I call
24:03
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies Scnarian behaviorism, which basically means they rely
24:07
Speaker 2: on what BF Skinner talked about punishment and rewards, and
24:11
Speaker 2: I strongly disagree.
24:13
Speaker 1: Here's a couple of reasons that reward charts don't work.
24:15
Speaker 2: I mean, they're the go to strategy, right, this is
24:17
Speaker 2: what everybody goes to in the parenting toolkit. We need rewards,
24:19
Speaker 2: we need punishment, we need time out, we need praise,
24:21
Speaker 2: all that kind of thing. But rewards actually undermine our
24:24
Speaker 2: efforts to improve the situation. Research on motivation says that
24:27
Speaker 2: when you reward someone for doing something, there can be
24:30
Speaker 2: all sorts of negative repercussions that you might not expect.
24:32
Speaker 2: So here are some reasons that rewards fail our kids.
24:36
Speaker 2: Number one, it's all about parental power. You're the one
24:38
Speaker 2: that's pulling the strings. Look, it's great to have kids
24:41
Speaker 2: doing the right thing, but when they're only doing it
24:43
Speaker 2: because of the goodie they'll get, they're not getting why
24:47
Speaker 2: it's good to.
24:48
Speaker 1: Do the right thing.
24:48
Speaker 2: They're doing it because we've essentially coerced them into it
24:52
Speaker 2: in a sugar.
24:52
Speaker 1: Coated, smiley way.
24:54
Speaker 2: Here's the second reason reward charts often lead to punishment
24:57
Speaker 2: and conflict. You think about it, You promise a goody,
25:00
Speaker 2: but if your child maybe you say to your child,
25:02
Speaker 2: if you can behave and not hit anybody this week,
25:04
Speaker 2: here's what's going to happen.
25:04
Speaker 1: It's going to be wonderful.
25:06
Speaker 2: But failure to tick all those boxes means failure to
25:09
Speaker 2: get the goodie, and that means the child feels punished.
25:11
Speaker 2: They feel like they're not good enough, they feel like
25:14
Speaker 2: they're horrible people, they feel like they can never do
25:17
Speaker 2: the right thing for their parents, And it looks like
25:19
Speaker 2: we're punishing them. Now, some parents are going to say, well,
25:22
Speaker 2: that's what consequences are all about. But if we don't
25:25
Speaker 2: offer the reward, then we don't have to punish for
25:26
Speaker 2: non compliance, for failure. And apart from that, the consequence
25:29
Speaker 2: is actually an external one that we're imposing rather than
25:32
Speaker 2: a natural consequence. You know, when you hit people, people
25:35
Speaker 2: don't like you, you get left alone.
25:37
Speaker 1: Okay.
25:37
Speaker 2: Number three, reward charts are hard work for parents. Every
25:42
Speaker 2: parent I talk to says that it's so hard work.
25:43
Speaker 2: I've got to be on top of everything all the time.
25:45
Speaker 2: It's just one more thing to do. I'm constantly monitoring.
25:47
Speaker 2: It's just too hard. The fourth reason is that, and
25:49
Speaker 2: I think this is the most important one of all, really,
25:51
Speaker 2: reward charts ignore reasons. Now, as I mentioned earlier, what's
25:56
Speaker 2: causing the defiant behavior, understanding that is far more important,
26:00
Speaker 2: and then trying to band aid over it with rewards.
26:02
Speaker 2: Here's two more reasons that rewards are a problem. I
26:05
Speaker 2: think that reward charts reduce intrinsic motivation. Child might be
26:09
Speaker 2: motivated to get rewards, but they're not going to be
26:11
Speaker 2: motivated to behave well, they're just doing it to get
26:13
Speaker 2: the goodie. Once the good he's gone. The behavior goes
26:16
Speaker 2: back to normal motivation for what we want them to do.
26:18
Speaker 2: Drops it's all about the goody And the last point,
26:21
Speaker 2: reward charts actually increase selfishness. See, when we promise rewards
26:26
Speaker 2: for doing something, our children are thinking of themselves. They're
26:31
Speaker 2: not thinking of others. Usually what we want is a
26:35
Speaker 2: defiant child to think about how he or she can
26:39
Speaker 2: be more empathic towards others and more considerate of others.
26:43
Speaker 2: But rewards just increase the focus on me, me, me,
26:45
Speaker 2: me me. So what do we do if we're not
26:49
Speaker 2: going to medicate, or at least if we go to
26:51
Speaker 2: try and avoid medicating, but we need help and we're
26:54
Speaker 2: not going to use reward charts?
26:55
Speaker 1: Here are five tips. No easy answers, by the way,
26:57
Speaker 1: but here are five suggestions.
26:59
Speaker 2: First of all, I think it's important to try to
27:01
Speaker 2: really understand the struggle and challenge that this little guy faces.
27:03
Speaker 1: Does he need more time with you? Is there an
27:05
Speaker 1: issue with the school? Why is he angry?
27:08
Speaker 2: I mean asking him probably isn't going to help. He's
27:10
Speaker 2: unlikely to know, but we've got to try to work
27:12
Speaker 2: it out. Is there something that's changed in your home life? Recently.
27:15
Speaker 2: That's causing this. Why is he so angry? Number two,
27:19
Speaker 2: Build the relationship stronger. I mean, your son probably gets
27:23
Speaker 2: a lot of correction and direction because he's so oppositional.
27:26
Speaker 2: So spend time just being together and developing the relationship
27:29
Speaker 2: rather than always telling him what to do. Go bike
27:31
Speaker 2: riding or camping, or walking with the dog, or go
27:33
Speaker 2: to the park or the beach, or go and kick
27:35
Speaker 2: a ball. Help him feel appreciated, help him feel important.
27:38
Speaker 2: Build the foundation of the relationship. Number three, try and
27:42
Speaker 2: develop some ideas and solutions together when he's not mad,
27:47
Speaker 2: I mean, help him to be responsible, to develop strategies
27:49
Speaker 2: that he's okay with, and help him when he makes
27:52
Speaker 2: mistakes rather than getting mad at him.
27:54
Speaker 1: Number four, Teach him about perspective. This is really important.
27:56
Speaker 2: Ask him how others feel when he hurts them a problem.
28:01
Speaker 2: Solve ways, I should say, to communicate what he wants
28:05
Speaker 2: and what he needs without hurting others. And the last
28:08
Speaker 2: idea is this just offering choices within limits that you
28:10
Speaker 2: see as being okay. Often kids act out in anger
28:13
Speaker 2: because they feel too controlled.
28:16
Speaker 1: I mean, limits matter. We need to have limits.
28:18
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting for a moment that there shouldn't be,
28:20
Speaker 2: But autonomy is also essential for well being. I think
28:23
Speaker 2: that if you're in this situation, work on these strategies
28:26
Speaker 2: for a month or two, then take your son to
28:28
Speaker 2: another specialist for another opinion. If he's really dealing with
28:32
Speaker 2: the disorder, then he needs specialist help.
28:34
Speaker 1: But if he's just angry and frustrated, he needs his parents.
28:38
Speaker 2: Okay, that's I shouldn't call it three minute therapy because
28:41
Speaker 2: I can't get through it in three minutes.
28:43
Speaker 1: We should call it five minute therapy. What do you
28:44
Speaker 1: think five minutes? I don't know.
28:46
Speaker 2: Up next on the Happy Families podcast and final thoughts
28:49
Speaker 2: on the screen time tsunami issue and a way for
28:51
Speaker 2: you to get a big discount on my twenty one
28:53
Speaker 2: days to a Happier Family online video program.
28:57
Speaker 7: Are you endlessly nagging, shouting, pleading, threatening, and demanding that
29:01
Speaker 7: your children behave Do you live in a dictatorship where
29:04
Speaker 7: the kids are in charge? Timeout is not? Your only option?
29:08
Speaker 7: Is an ebook with discipline strategies and ideas that work,
29:11
Speaker 7: and they work without you carrying a load of parental
29:14
Speaker 7: guilt around all day. No more yelling, threatening, bribing or timeouts.
29:19
Speaker 7: From day one, you'll notice the difference in your children
29:22
Speaker 7: and they'll notice the difference in you. Time out is
29:24
Speaker 7: not your only option. By doctor Justin Coulson, available as
29:28
Speaker 7: an ebook and an audiobook at Happyfamilies dot com dot Au.
29:32
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Famili's podcast. This is doctor Justin Coulson.
29:35
Speaker 2: We're wrapping up our screen tsunami Dealing with Screens podcast today.
29:40
Speaker 2: Fascinating research from the United States and Australia. Lags a
29:45
Speaker 2: little bit in statistics, but we don't have great stats
29:49
Speaker 2: here in Australia, so I can only go with US
29:51
Speaker 2: statistics on this one. But in the USA, eighty two
29:54
Speaker 2: percent of one year olds and ninety five percent of
29:58
Speaker 2: two year olds are watching t and.
30:00
Speaker 1: Videos on a typical weekday.
30:02
Speaker 2: One year old spend an average of ten hours a
30:04
Speaker 2: week watching screens, two year old spend approximately fifteen hours
30:07
Speaker 2: a week watching screens, and almost half of our toddlers
30:13
Speaker 2: are watching at least fifteen hours per week. Now, screen
30:17
Speaker 2: time recommendations really strongly guide us towards keeping our one
30:22
Speaker 2: and two year olds away from screens entirely.
30:24
Speaker 1: They're just not good for them.
30:25
Speaker 7: Now.
30:26
Speaker 1: I know it's not practical to keep them completely off it, but.
30:28
Speaker 2: As one last thought, We've got to get the screen
30:31
Speaker 2: time balance right. It's unfortunately used as an escape too often.
30:35
Speaker 2: It's used as a way of just coping, and it's
30:38
Speaker 2: not a good way to cope. So hopefully there's some
30:42
Speaker 2: helpful ideas in today's Happy Families podcast for you to
30:45
Speaker 2: tackle the screen tsunami. I'd love to get your ideas
30:48
Speaker 2: once again at Happy Families dot com dot I use
30:50
Speaker 2: slash podcast slash fifteen.
30:52
Speaker 1: How do you deal with screens in your home? Oh?
30:54
Speaker 2: By the way, I love the idea of using the
30:56
Speaker 2: oven timer. I've done that many times in my home
30:58
Speaker 2: myself and we found that it's in a really great strategy. Okay, well,
31:02
Speaker 2: that's it for the podcast for this fortnite. Thanks so
31:05
Speaker 2: much for listening to the podcast. I hope your family
31:07
Speaker 2: is happier because of it and that it helps you
31:09
Speaker 2: to grow as a parent and as a person. I
31:12
Speaker 2: also want to remind you if you go to Happy
31:14
Speaker 2: Families dot com dot Au and look up the twenty
31:16
Speaker 2: one Days to a Happier Family program, you can and
31:19
Speaker 2: you will make your family happier in twenty one days.
31:21
Speaker 2: In fact, I get emails pretty regularly from people who
31:23
Speaker 2: are doing the program online in their own time. Who
31:26
Speaker 2: say you promise me it would take twenty one days.
31:28
Speaker 2: I found that I'm happier and sow's my family in
31:31
Speaker 2: in just one or two days.
31:32
Speaker 1: It really can work.
31:33
Speaker 2: And if you'd like to get fifty dollars off, that's
31:37
Speaker 2: fifty dollars off a ninety seven dollars program. We're talking
31:39
Speaker 2: a big discount here. Just use the code podcast all
31:44
Speaker 2: in capitals, podcast podcast all one word and that's a
31:48
Speaker 2: special offer for you for taking the time to listen
31:51
Speaker 2: to the podcast and participate in what's going on here
31:54
Speaker 2: at happy families.
31:55
Speaker 1: Dot com dot AU.
31:56
Speaker 2: If you'd like any more info about it, you'll find
31:58
Speaker 2: show notes and a whole lot more at happy families
32:01
Speaker 2: dot com dot I use slash podcast slash fifteen as
32:03
Speaker 2: in the number fifteen, and once again, can I ask
32:06
Speaker 2: you to rate the podcast. Go to iTunes, subscribe to
32:09
Speaker 2: us so you get it every fortnight, and rate it
32:11
Speaker 2: so that people can find out about it. This is
32:12
Speaker 2: how we increase the visibility and this is how we
32:15
Speaker 2: help other people to find out how they can make
32:16
Speaker 2: their family happier. Thanks once again, I hope this has
32:19
Speaker 2: made a difference. And remember if things are tough. You
32:22
Speaker 2: don't have to be the best parent in the world.
32:24
Speaker 2: You just have to be the best parent in your
32:26
Speaker 2: child's world. I'm doctor Justin Coulson. It's the Happy Families Podcast.