Latest / Pretty In Pink Again / Episode 47: How the Game Has Changed: Friendships, Conflict & Emotional Maturity, Why Grown Women Don’t Need Perfect Friendships — They Need Repair Skills

Transcript

Episode 47: How the Game Has Changed: Friendships, Conflict & Emotional Maturity, Why Grown Women Don’t Need Perfect Friendships — They Need Repair Skills · Pretty In Pink Again

• 0:00
  I'm Christina and I'm t and this is the Pretty and Pink Again podcast where Motherhood meets red discovery.
• 0:17
  Hello.
• 0:18
  Oh, hey.
• 0:19
  Hey.
• 0:19
  What's going on?
• 0:20
  It's been a bit since I feel like it's been me and you, but it really hasn't been that long.
• 0:24
  It's only been two episodes, but Right.
• 0:26
  It just feels like it's been a while.
• 0:27
  It has been a while.
• 0:29
  It's been like the whole holiday break.
• 0:31
  Yeah, flu season.
• 0:32
  Yeah, that's what it was.
• 0:34
  All the things we were like so down for the count for the last three weeks, it's almost been, I feel like it's almost been a month, but it was a long road.
• 0:42
  We had flu a take over the TER household.
• 0:44
  Did you like go and actually get a test?
• 0:46
  The reason why we know that is because when Raja and I got it first, so we went down first and it happened at the exact same time.
• 0:54
  Isn't that funny when that happens?
• 0:55
  When you like we looked at each other and we were like, what is happening?
• 0:59
  And when was that?
• 0:59
  Are you like this?
• 1:00
  It was Christmas evening.
• 1:02
  So like Christmas day.
• 1:03
  So had come through the whole day.
• 1:04
  We made it the day we made it through hosting like 25 people.
• 1:08
  And then we both were like cleaning up and went to sit down and we both looked at each other is this just exhaustion or is this something else?
• 1:15
  And by like that.
• 1:16
  Time we went to bed like an hour later.
• 1:18
  It came on so fast.
• 1:20
  We were like, oh, what is happening?
• 1:21
  And so we thought it was flu.
• 1:24
  And then Leo ended up getting it a couple days later and then we had to take him in'cause his fever was so high and they tested him and it was flu A.
• 1:32
  So then we knew that's definitely what we had.
• 1:34
  And then we knew that Layla was next.
• 1:36
  Do they give you anything when for flu, they can give you, they give kids Tam flu.
• 1:41
  They can, but we were already so past it at that point, which they just said that.
• 1:46
  It reduces your symptoms I think it was 18 hours and, but it could bring on a slew of other things.
• 1:52
  And our pediatrician had told us that if with ours our appetites were like zero with it, all of us.
• 2:00
  And if you have nothing in your system and you take that, it could cause a lot of GI issues.
• 2:05
  Yeah.
• 2:05
  So we were like, no, then we're just gonna ride it out because you don't wanna like Yeah, you'll just let it take its course for to get what, yeah.
• 2:10
  To earn a half a day.
• 2:11
  Exactly.
• 2:12
  Not worth.
• 2:12
  I was like, oh, it's worth, oh, this was like multiple days.
• 2:14
  I would've said yes.
• 2:15
  Let's gamble, but No way.
• 2:16
  And I just, this was our first.
• 2:18
  Time where we went down first and then the kids got sick from us.
• 2:24
  I feel like it's always been all the way around.
• 2:26
  Always.
• 2:26
  We're like they get sick and then we're able to take care of them and then we end up getting sick.
• 2:30
  But I don't know what is worse.
• 2:31
  This was rough because'cause they were perking full of energy and you, Roger were full of Yep.
• 2:36
  Toast.
• 2:37
  Yes.
• 2:37
  For the first couple of days and they were full of energy and we didn't really have a lot of time to rest and recover.
• 2:44
  But then when they went down with the flu, we had such fatigue for the first couple of days.
• 2:49
  Like after we were done with all the, like the horrendous symptoms, there was still this like lingering fatigue.
• 2:54
  Like we were napping.
• 2:56
  That's how exhausted we were.
• 2:57
  Like we could barely make it through the morning.
• 2:59
  But then we were trying to take care of them and they were up all night with 104 fevers.
• 3:04
  It was.
• 3:05
  Crazy.
• 3:06
  So I feel like back to newborn stage.
• 3:07
  Yep.
• 3:07
  It was just back to survival mode.
• 3:09
  And I said, oh, every time I get into this where I'm like, we're up throughout the night, it is just chaos during the day I start spiraling so bad.
• 3:19
  Oh no.
• 3:19
  But I was really proud.
• 3:20
  I feel like I tried to hold it together as much as possible and we're through it, but if anyone else is going through cold and sixties and I feel like this year is nuts.
• 3:30
  Yeah.
• 3:30
  Like I feel like we say that every year, but like this year seems to be.
• 3:34
  Like the flu?
• 3:34
  It came earlier.
• 3:35
  The flu.
• 3:35
  It came, the flu came earlier.
• 3:37
  It did.
• 3:37
  And there's always a strand B, so that'll be back in March.
• 3:40
  So everyone's oh wait, you guys are probably all set for the flu.
• 3:43
  And I'm like, yeah, but there's like string A, B, C, D.
• 3:46
  And then I'm like, and then there's all these other ones that keep popping up, like they're saying, you know what?
• 3:50
  I don't understand.
• 3:50
  Two of my kids got the flu shot and those are the two that got the flu.
• 3:54
  The other two didn't get it.
• 3:55
  None of us tested for it, but only I had two kids that had symptoms of it's Yep.
• 4:00
  High fever, like toast, like Yep.
• 4:02
  Felt like shit for over a week.
• 4:04
  Leo was the only one that got the flu shot and he was the sickest he had for school.
• 4:07
  Yeah.
• 4:08
  And he was, so I guess again, I'm not like, I'm not, this is not an anti-vax conversation.
• 4:13
  No.
• 4:13
  I'm just like, just curious.
• 4:14
  I don't understand.
• 4:15
  They were like, their response to me was, there, it just didn't protect against this strand.
• 4:20
  I'm like this is it.
• 4:21
  Strand, strand, strand, yeah.
• 4:24
  Strand of DNA strand of virus.
• 4:26
  Yeah.
• 4:27
  They're like it just didn't protect against this one.
• 4:29
  And I'm like, okay, this is the one that's all over Connecticut, so maybe next time let's fix that because this was the one that took us out.
• 4:37
  Yeah.
• 4:37
  You'll get the vaccine for that strand next year.
• 4:40
  Next year when that's, on the west coast.
• 4:43
  Yeah.
• 4:43
  When I'm having PTSD from this season.
• 4:45
  But we're good.
• 4:46
  We're back to being healthy and everyone's feeling good again.
• 4:50
  We, so we went, like right after Christmas, we had to go to New Jersey.
• 4:53
  It was my in-law's again, 50th wedding anniversary.
• 4:55
  So we went and Ava was sick, she had a high fever and her and I were almost not gonna go.
• 5:00
  And then she ended up being like, mom, I'll more or less power through.
• 5:03
  But she was so sick.
• 5:05
  So we had a surprise party for my in-laws, and I'm not kidding.
• 5:08
  Yeah.
• 5:09
  Most of the family didn't come'cause they were sick and then people were actually leaving the party early, like feeling it, coming on, feeling sick like it was coming on.
• 5:17
  Yep.
• 5:18
  So I was like, oh shit.
• 5:21
  Everybody around me is dropping like, yes.
• 5:24
  Flies.
• 5:25
  And it comes on really fast and you just, it's one of those where you just know.
• 5:28
  Yeah.
• 5:28
  And it comes on like in a second and then it's just, oh, I know.
• 5:31
  So then we went to dinner the next day on their actual anniversary.
• 5:34
  Just our immediate family.
• 5:35
  And my father-in-law got the bill and he looked at it, he was like, I don't think I've ever taken you guys out for this.
• 5:41
  Inexpensive, nobody drank any alcohol.
• 5:43
  Nobody except for Gina.
• 5:44
  She felt fine.
• 5:45
  Nobody was really hungry.
• 5:47
  Nobody was feeling great.
• 5:48
  The appetite, we were all like, we all, we had to power through.
• 5:51
  Like we were there, we had to go, but I think I ordered like a bowl of soup.
• 5:55
  Yeah.
• 5:55
  Everyone's just Ava had like toast.
• 5:57
  Yeah.
• 5:58
  Anyways, and then Joseph got it.
• 6:01
  On New Year's.
• 6:02
  He ate, we went to a New Year's party and he had ate three dozen oysters.
• 6:06
  Oh.
• 6:07
  So he was, and I was like, Ew, that you're disgusting.
• 6:09
  So the next morning he woke up and we were supposed to ski and he wouldn't get outta bed.
• 6:12
  He was like, I feel sick.
• 6:13
  I'm like, yeah,'cause you ate three dozen oysters.
• 6:15
  Oh.
• 6:16
  So we were gonna leave him home, but, or back at the hotel.
• 6:19
  But I took the kids' phones away and tablets away for the Vermont trip because it's been nonstop with the phones phone device.
• 6:29
  Like this game, that game like Vincent the other day, my sister-in-law calls me and she goes, did you know Vincent got an Instagram?
• 6:36
  I go, I'm sorry.
• 6:37
  What?
• 6:38
  And she said, yeah, Vincent just friend requested me on Instagram, Italian Stallion.
• 6:42
  I'm like, oh my God, Vincent, how did you even download this?
• 6:46
  He's you don't have parental controls on social media?
• 6:48
  I go, yeah, because we don't have social media.
• 6:49
  Oh, we're gonna have think I needed to, we're gonna have another convo on that.
• 6:53
  So I had to very quickly go in and.
• 6:56
  Do that.
• 6:56
  So anyways, I took all the devices away so you couldn't leave him?
• 6:59
  So I couldn't leave him'cause he had no device or no way to get in touch with me, except for, I suppose there's a phone in the hotel.
• 7:06
  But do they know how to work that?
• 7:07
  Probably not.
• 7:08
  He does.
• 7:08
  They all know my phone number, but I still just felt like bad about it.
• 7:12
  Yeah.
• 7:12
  So we brought him with us skiing and he slept in the lodge.
• 7:16
  Yeah.
• 7:16
  The whole day was, it's like a, it's a sleeping one.
• 7:18
  Sleeping on a bench.
• 7:19
  Yeah.
• 7:19
  That was the perk was just the kids would go down for naps and I would be like, it's 5:00 PM we're gonna wake up.
• 7:25
  Like it was taken everyone out.
• 7:26
  But anyway, everyone's healthy.
• 7:28
  And we are excited about this next episode because it was, it's a spinoff of something that we've done in the past.
• 7:37
  So this is gonna be like the friendship part two?
• 7:39
  Yes.
• 7:39
  This is friendship part two about friendships and conflict and emotional maturity.
• 7:45
  And why grown women don't need perfect friendships.
• 7:50
  I think we need repair skills for those friendships.
• 7:54
  When we researched our first episode, we didn't even scratch the surface on like part two, right?
• 7:59
  So when we wanted to go back into part two, we didn't even talk about this whole repair segment, of friendships and why some female relationships feel confusing because you have to know how to repair a relationship because it's not one, like with your spouse where yes, you repair, it's gonna be there because it's your spouse or your sister or your mom.
• 8:17
  Like where you know it's gonna be there a friendship that's optional, it's voluntary for sure.
• 8:23
  But you, so you have to work on repair skills if you want the longevity of that Yeah.
• 8:27
  To, to work.
• 8:28
  And I wonder if that's why at this midlife, which we talk about all the time.
• 8:33
  That's why some of these friendships start, like dissipating it's another reason for that.
• 8:38
  We always say it's like the time you need to be able to invest time and there's limited time during this period of your life, but if people don't repair any rifts that happen, you can just really distance yourself and then the friendship is, and I don't know if it was ever modeled to me how to repair friendship because I always just think like my, with my own things, like I don't want my girls to even see me have conflict with other women because I take it as like a bad thing.
• 9:07
  Oh, I'm catty'cause I'm having conflict with a woman.
• 9:09
  Whereas really I think it's okay to have conflict with other friends.
• 9:13
  And it's okay for my girls to see that.
• 9:15
  'Cause then they'll see the resolution.
• 9:17
  But I don't know if I ever, you're only seeing one part of it, but I don't know if I ever saw.
• 9:21
  Any of it when I was a kid.
• 9:22
  'cause I think I was shielded from it.
• 9:24
  Because I think the initial conflict was always presented as like bad.
• 9:29
  Yeah.
• 9:29
  That's interesting.
• 9:30
  So we're not gonna show you that.
• 9:30
  We're not gonna show you any of it.
• 9:31
  We're not gonna show you the conflict or the resolution.
• 9:34
  Or maybe you just see a fallout.
• 9:36
  And never explained why.
• 9:39
  Maybe the parties don't even know why.
• 9:41
  Yep.
• 9:41
  So anyways, I just thought that was like an interesting thing.
• 9:44
  And then another part of this was when you're neutral and some people around you have conflict, how do you handle that?
• 9:54
  It's really tough, right?
• 9:55
  Yeah.
• 9:56
  It's hard to be put in the middle.
• 9:57
  Or even if you're not directly in the middle, how do you stay neutral?
• 10:02
  I don't know if we're ever.
• 10:04
  Taught or modeled how to fight clean, you avoid you people please, or you vent to a third party on what to do instead of just going directly to the party.
• 10:16
  Because going directly to a party might sound aggressive.
• 10:19
  It's confrontational or confrontational.
• 10:21
  But really, I think that the problem is when you go to a third person, it's hard not to even do that though.
• 10:28
  No.
• 10:28
  It's okay to do that.
• 10:29
  Sometimes you need to sound it out first.
• 10:31
  But I'm just saying like that's, that seems to be the path of least resistance to avoid to people Please.
• 10:38
  To ask another friend.
• 10:39
  What do you think about this?
• 10:40
  Help.
• 10:41
  And I think that friendship conflict sometimes feels scarier than like I said, was saying earlier than like my marriage conflict or like my familial conflict, because there's no contract, there's no shared kids, and there's no built-in like expectation of you have to fix this.
• 10:59
  It's also harder because especially now I think it's a little bit different when you're like in college and maybe you're living with people and you're immersed in it, but when you're not and you're removed.
• 11:09
  Right?
• 11:09
  Right.
• 11:09
  That's built in expectation, right?
• 11:10
  It's built in.
• 11:11
  So when you remove yourself from that and you don't have the opportunity to repair because you're not immersed in it.
• 11:17
  You're not living with people, you're living with your family, right?
• 11:20
  And so if you're not really.
• 11:22
  Forced to have to repair it because it becomes uncomfortable.
• 11:25
  I think that a lot of distance happens, so if there's conflict and then there's no opportunity or there's less opportunity to repair it because of that, this distance builds and I think that then the distance adds to the conflict too.
• 11:40
  I think you need some distance when you're in a conflict, right?
• 11:43
  Sometimes you do.
• 11:44
  Sometimes you need a little space just to sometimes you do get your head, you don't think that you need, I think sometimes you need a little space, but then I think sometimes space can cause other things because, or it can build it.
• 11:55
  It can be, yes, it could.
• 11:56
  Space makes more space exacerbate the issue.
• 11:59
  Sometimes I think you need a moment to collect yourself and maybe.
• 12:03
  Try to figure out where you wanna go next.
• 12:05
  And I think there's good space.
• 12:07
  But I think sometimes in friendships the space is like too much.
• 12:10
  And I think that space then breeds this distance.
• 12:14
  And distance does not help when you need to repair something.
• 12:17
  And I think when you're, when you were talking about your husband or conflicts with your family members, when they're there, there's just more opportunity for those to naturally come up.
• 12:27
  And when your friendships, especially I'm sure as friendships are through distance, if you have people in your life that no longer live around you it's harder to come face to face, with the issue.
• 12:38
  Yeah.
• 12:38
  And work through that.
• 12:39
  Like it's a deliberate, you have to make the phone call.
• 12:42
  It's, some of these things are not text message things that need to be handled.
• 12:47
  And you have to find the time and the dedicated time to be like, let's get on the phone, let's rehash this.
• 12:52
  You know what I mean?
• 12:53
  Yeah.
• 12:53
  It just becomes it becomes a lot and it becomes like an intentional thing.
• 12:57
  Yeah.
• 12:57
  It's very uncomfortable.
• 12:58
  Very uncomfortable.
• 12:59
  'cause you have to like, reach out, extend the olive branch Hey, do you wanna talk about this?
• 13:04
  It's just very forced.
• 13:06
  It is forced.
• 13:08
  And I can, I can't even think of how many times I've had, I've done that before.
• 13:11
  Because it's so much easier just to stay silent.
• 13:13
  But silence is gonna end up, end is like the antidote to ending a friendship.
• 13:20
  And I think sometimes if you have silence because something that you were worked up about or had a conflict with it probably depends on the level of the conflict.
• 13:30
  Sometimes there's just annoying things that happen back and forth.
• 13:34
  And you're just annoyed with someone and then sometimes that silence and distance just makes you forget about it, but then if not, if it's something that.
• 13:44
  You're choosing to ignore because you don't wanna deal with it.
• 13:48
  I think that's when it really builds into this ugly, uncomfortable rift.
• 13:54
  And then the friendship sort of dissipates.
• 13:56
  So I think that there's a difference between conflict versus discomfort for sure.
• 14:03
  So what's the difference then?
• 14:04
  I think between discomfort and conflict.
• 14:06
  I think discomfort a lot of the time comes from misunderstandings, right?
• 14:11
  Being in different seasons for people, like I have talked a lot about my friendships being, I don't wanna use the term rocky, but just not at their strongest points when we were at completely different seasons.
• 14:23
  Like when somebody became a mom, and I wasn't a mom yet, and so we didn't have that similar experience to share.
• 14:29
  Like I felt like there were some moments that weren't fights right, but they were just uncomfortable moments in time.
• 14:35
  And I think that some of them can come from growth, right?
• 14:38
  Somebody's growing and doing new things and wants to change something about themselves, and maybe you're left, away from that.
• 14:45
  I think that's.
• 14:47
  Discomfort and being uncomfortable.
• 14:48
  And I think conflict is when something like ruptures, right?
• 14:52
  Something, what nasty was said, feelings were hurt.
• 14:56
  And whether it was intentional or not.
• 14:58
  Somebody said something that bothered you, that hurt you in some way.
• 15:02
  I think that it's more of when there's like a rupture that happens versus a smaller thing that sort of builds and makes you feel a certain way.
• 15:09
  So discomfort can be like maybe a slightly bad experience, but it's not like the end all be all.
• 15:17
  I think that those don't even need a repair.
• 15:19
  Right?
• 15:19
  Like those just might need some nurturing to come back to.
• 15:23
  And I think a lot of the times when you have, I'm calling it a rupture'cause I feel like, it's, I'm just trying to visually show like there was.
• 15:30
  An issue that happened, right?
• 15:32
  Like there, there was something that stopped the friendship from continuing the way it was, it, it paused you for a second.
• 15:40
  You need to repair a rupture or a wound, right?
• 15:43
  So how do you know when it's worth repairing or not?
• 15:48
  Or do you always repair no matter what and then move forward and then decide if you wanna move forward in the friendship?
• 15:54
  I think what's happened to me is I've had to take a step back, so we go back to that pause the distance, right?
• 16:01
  And some of that is to collect yourself and to and to try to get I can get really heated about things and sometimes I do need to take a step back and let the dust settle a little bit and then have some like non reactionary thoughts around it, we're just, it's okay, take a second.
• 16:18
  What do we wanna do here?
• 16:19
  How do we wanna move forward with this?
• 16:21
  So you name the feeling Yes.
• 16:23
  Not necessarily the, you don't rehash the encounter.
• 16:25
  You na rename, like the feeling.
• 16:27
  Of course I rehash the encounter.
• 16:29
  Okay.
• 16:29
  But I think that then I, my next step is being like, am I hurt?
• 16:33
  Am I uncomfortable in some sort of way?
• 16:35
  Did someone say something that hurt my feelings?
• 16:37
  Did I feel like left out intentionally?
• 16:40
  Did someone do something where I felt very slighted and hurt by it?
• 16:44
  Yeah.
• 16:44
  Like you need to figure out what happened.
• 16:46
  And why you pulled back.
• 16:47
  Yes.
• 16:48
  then I think step three would be.
• 16:50
  Name what you want to happen next.
• 16:53
  I want, do I wanna repair this?
• 16:54
  I think that sometimes you need to take a beat and be like, what do I wanna do next?
• 16:59
  Is this worth repairing?
• 17:01
  Do I wanna maybe get to the bottom?
• 17:03
  Was this a misunderstanding that happened?
• 17:05
  Maybe this wasn't intentional.
• 17:07
  But I feel like I can't move on unless I share my experience from this happening, there's been plenty of times where I'm like, I have to get this off my chest because I cannot continue to go forward without us addressing this that happened.
• 17:21
  And I think that goes back to the, where you're uncomfortable.
• 17:24
  Not everything needs to be addressed, I think sometimes when you're uncomfortable.
• 17:28
  So that's more just a discomfort.
• 17:29
  Yes.
• 17:29
  It's just that could be internal, that could be a little bit of a slight misunderstanding.
• 17:33
  Maybe in a misalignment with somebody currently, but that doesn't necessarily mean that needs to be like a conversation or something that's hashed out.
• 17:41
  I think when you're in a real true conflict with a female friend, a lot of the times there's no moving forward unless something is repaired, spoken about, worked through, and that's happened to me.
• 17:55
  And I think a big part of that is I think sometimes you have to take accountability when you've messed up a hundred percent.
• 18:01
  I think that's like another, like the fourth pillar of this is when you've messed up, you have to say, I've messed up.
• 18:08
  Yep.
• 18:08
  Not, I'm sorry I made you feel like that.
• 18:10
  Or I'm sorry you feel that way.
• 18:12
  It's, I'm sorry I messed up.
• 18:14
  And I think that those words have, can repair most things.
• 18:19
  Yep.
• 18:19
  If you are truly sorry for making a mistake.
• 18:22
  Yep.
• 18:22
  And I think that if you made a mistake, it's okay to.
• 18:25
  Make a mistake and it's okay to apologize for it.
• 18:27
  Yeah.
• 18:27
  And I think hopefully if you have a good foundational friendship after some time and space and talking about it, it should naturally repair itself.
• 18:37
  Because you've made the apology, somebody's owned up to a mistake that they made, or a way that they acted.
• 18:43
  And a lot of the times, in my experience, you can move forward.
• 18:47
  From there, just like leaving whatever in the past.
• 18:50
  I think mature friendships can survive being wrong.
• 18:54
  I do too, for sure.
• 18:55
  And I think, again, I'm bringing it back to like when I was younger, but if I was in a group of friends and one friend.
• 19:02
  Was mad at me, but wasn't mad at the other two.
• 19:04
  I remember I'd ask my mom, like, why is she always singling me out?
• 19:08
  How come she doesn't care about the other two?
• 19:10
  My mom would say, she doesn't really even like those other girls so much.
• 19:13
  You're in a group of friend, but you're her closest.
• 19:15
  You're closest one.
• 19:16
  So of course she's gonna come to you.
• 19:17
  So now you've had that friend for 30 years and you're in your forties and you have five or six or seven friends that are really close to you.
• 19:25
  So conflicts are gonna be deeper and cut deeper and feel harder when you have a history.
• 19:33
  Yes.
• 19:33
  Oh, for sure.
• 19:34
  When you have a long history with somebody and you love them deep and you love them hard, I think you can also get cut by that person deep and hard because you hold them if don't see it.
• 19:44
  'cause you hold them to a higher standard, hold them to a higher standard.
• 19:47
  For sure.
• 19:47
  And I agree with you.
• 19:48
  There's this.
• 19:50
  Three part friendship repair formula that I saw.
• 19:54
  And I wanna read through this because I'm wondering,'cause we had talked a little bit naturally about it, but like it's number one name, the feeling, not the accusation.
• 20:02
  So I think that's important.
• 20:03
  It's like you name the feeling, so if you're feeling like somebody said something that hurt your feelings, right?
• 20:09
  You're like, I feel hurt by what this person said.
• 20:13
  Instead of just saying, you said this it's like this hurt me, whatever the action was, this hurt me.
• 20:19
  And then you name the impact.
• 20:21
  So what did it make you do?
• 20:24
  You said this and it hurt my feelings and so it made me pull back from you.
• 20:29
  So then you're saying like, why the why of like how you got there, and then name the desire I want us to feel close again.
• 20:37
  I want to move past this.
• 20:39
  I think that you need those three things to happen in any sort of conflict.
• 20:44
  Yeah.
• 20:46
  I just don't know if I've ever done those three things, like sequentially that.
• 20:50
  Like I feel like my, what comes to me natural is like I'm pissed off.
• 20:54
  And I'm mad, but I don't even know why I'm mad.
• 20:56
  And I need to like, think about why I'm mad.
• 20:59
  And then my next step is I call my husband, who's my sounding board.
• 21:03
  And I'm like, what do you think of this?
• 21:04
  And he's I think you have too many friends and not enough time.
• 21:08
  Gotta go by, yeah.
• 21:09
  And then I get over it.
• 21:12
  Yeah, but that's suppressing it.
• 21:14
  That might, but I'm saying might be, I'm just saying like the, I'm not saying that my way is a good way.
• 21:17
  I'm just saying this is actually, that's the way I do, that's way that happens, right?
• 21:21
  This is what always happens.
• 21:22
  So I'll ask that then.
• 21:23
  Do you feel like sometimes, because you do that?
• 21:26
  'cause I have, and I can talk about the ways I've done things in the past.
• 21:29
  This is I'm talking about this as like the newer me who's been really trying to work on things.
• 21:35
  I've been much better at conflict with friendship in recent years.
• 21:39
  But I was terrible at it for a long time.
• 21:42
  Okay.
• 21:42
  Do you feel,'cause that was a very honest thing that you said you're like, I'm not.
• 21:46
  I don't think I handle sometimes conflict'cause you're you don't really address it is what you're saying.
• 21:51
  No.
• 21:51
  No.
• 21:51
  I've been guilty of that so many times and I think that it causes.
• 21:56
  So much unnecessary shit when you do that.
• 21:59
  Especially if it's something that's really bothering you, I think it can cause tension between you and the person, even if it's just internal.
• 22:06
  Like they might not even know that you're mad, but it just causes this friction in your own head.
• 22:12
  And then I think that then if you don't address it, it can harbor right and fester inside of you.
• 22:18
  And then if you do address it to everybody else around you, but that person, it could cause really uncomfortable things between you and the person, because other people know that you're mad.
• 22:31
  Other people know things, but you haven't addressed it with the person.
• 22:34
  You know what I mean?
• 22:34
  Like I think it could just cause a lot of unnecessary tension.
• 22:38
  Do you feel like it does that or are you talking more about things that make you uncomfortable and you just like suppress those?
• 22:44
  'cause I do think that's okay.
• 22:46
  I think it's probably more Yes, that one.
• 22:49
  Because I think if you have a true conflict with a friend, and I've been there, I have been in this position several over the last couple of years.
• 22:58
  I think it's a lot of it's been because there's been so many life transitions for all me and my girlfriends, and we were all used to spending so much time together, especially groups of of girls.
• 23:09
  We were all u used to spending so much time together.
• 23:12
  And then when we all started our families, which kind of happened at different times.
• 23:16
  So when like someone would pull back from the group because they started a family and then it would be like the rest of us and then someone else might pull back.
• 23:23
  And then there was COVID.
• 23:24
  So we didn't get to spend a lot of time together and now everybody has a family and there's just not as much time to dedicate and then I think that tensions can just sometimes naturally build and misunderstandings when someone's, maybe you don't feel like someone's putting as much into the friendship as they used to.
• 23:41
  And so there it's not like there has been some like catastrophic conflict, but there's been tensions that have formed in some of my friendships and I've had to address some of them.
• 23:52
  And in the past I wouldn't have addressed some of them and I think I would've let things build into much more of an explosion was bound to happen type of thing.
• 24:02
  And instead, what I've been doing is because I've done a lot of work on myself, I'm like, let me pull back.
• 24:08
  And try to figure out what's bothering me, get my thoughts together.
• 24:12
  And then I've been like.
• 24:14
  Let's talk through this.
• 24:16
  Let's get on the phone.
• 24:17
  We can't see each other unfortunately, but let's get on the phone and hash this out a little bit.
• 24:21
  And I found that 100% of the time when that's done with my close friends, the repair is almost instant.
• 24:29
  Yeah.
• 24:29
  It's crazy how it's almost instant.
• 24:32
  Like as soon as you put the time in and you're like, let's get on the phone, let's not make this any worse, right?
• 24:38
  We just have to talk this out and we talk it out and it's over.
• 24:42
  And that's been a relief to me.
• 24:45
  Okay, so we can move past this, right?
• 24:49
  But I've also been in plenty of situations where there's just un uncomfy feelings, right?
• 24:54
  Where you're just like, Ugh, I'm feeling like a little bit of left out of this season.
• 24:59
  Or, yeah.
• 24:59
  Like I don't feel like we're as close anymore.
• 25:02
  And in those situations, I sometimes just let stuff ride, right?
• 25:06
  I'm like, I'm not gonna make this a big deal.
• 25:08
  I'm not gonna turn this into an argument, right?
• 25:10
  I'm not gonna turn this into a fight.
• 25:11
  Both situations sound more like maybe your internal struggle, right?
• 25:16
  And less about what somebody else isn't maybe doing to you.
• 25:20
  So I think in those situations, it's best for you just to spend the time with yourself working through those feelings, right?
• 25:27
  Versus calling a friend, right?
• 25:30
  That's the time maybe to remain silent or work with your therapist, right?
• 25:33
  Or talk with your spouse and try to uncover, yeah.
• 25:36
  Why you feel.
• 25:38
  Lonely left out.
• 25:39
  Yeah.
• 25:40
  Not as close, I think that sometimes what happens, it's a hard distinction and I'm not perfect at it.
• 25:45
  I'm not com trying to come across like I have this all figured out.
• 25:48
  'cause I certainly don't.
• 25:49
  But I think what happens sometimes is we have this uncomfortable discomfort we're calling it.
• 25:55
  And then we label it.
• 25:57
  If there's something that just isn't sitting right with us, you feel a little bit weird about something, you then label it as toxic, right?
• 26:07
  Bad energy.
• 26:09
  And you're like, it causes more than needs to happen.
• 26:13
  And I think that this happened very recently in the headlines with that Tisdale headline.
• 26:19
  Yep.
• 26:20
  I saw this and I was like, we have to unpack this, right?
• 26:22
  If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, I'm gonna read you the headline and I want you to tell me what your.
• 26:27
  Gut reaction to it was, and then I'll tell you what mine was.
• 26:30
  Sure.
• 26:30
  So the headline was this Ashley Tisdale cultural content moment when she referred to a group of moms, her peers that all had kids at the same time as her.
• 26:39
  So her mom friends.
• 26:40
  Her mom friends, yeah.
• 26:42
  As a group of mean girls.
• 26:43
  Yes.
• 26:43
  'cause she was being excluded from this group.
• 26:48
  And she was calling them like a toxic group of mean girls.
• 26:51
  So my initial reaction to that was how do you know they're toxic?
• 26:55
  And how do you know they're mean if you just don't belong in that group?
• 26:59
  I had the same reaction and.
• 27:01
  I don't know if I would've always had that reaction.
• 27:04
  I think maybe at one point in my life I would've been like, oh, those are mean girls.
• 27:07
  But that's goes back to the episode we had on the girl on girl crime.
• 27:10
  Crime.
• 27:11
  You don't always have to label them bad.
• 27:14
  They, it just may not be for you.
• 27:15
  It's just maybe you're not aligned with that group and it's okay to pull back from that.
• 27:21
  So I would love to ask her like,'cause we still don't know the details of that article was a whole lot of nothing but also saying a whole lot of stuff, you know what mean?
• 27:30
  But it was like, there was no context.
• 27:32
  There was no, so it was just, I thought it was a very one-sided article and that's why I felt the same.
• 27:37
  It was probably why I felt the same way as you.
• 27:39
  I'm just, it's just my, where like why is the problem them.
• 27:42
  I think that's a very common thing when something happens that makes you uncomfortable and we don't know the context.
• 27:48
  So this is alleged, like it's allegedly we, something may have happened to her where she felt, we don't know if she was feeling she had St discomfort or she had a sting of not being included probably.
• 27:58
  And that sting of not being included, I'm sure ignites something in you from your childhood.
• 28:03
  Yep.
• 28:03
  When you were being left out.
• 28:05
  And the mean girls were mean to you.
• 28:07
  I feel like it, it's a tale as old as time, it's happened to everybody for sure.
• 28:11
  But I just think in this season of life, if you are not included in a group, it doesn't have to be because the group isn't mean girls, it doesn't, I don't think that you have to immediately label something as toxic mean girl bad energy.
• 28:24
  Like just because of that.
• 28:26
  I think when you're like, too quick to label your own discomfort as those things that I just said, I think that, that c can cause a lot of unnecessary conflict.
• 28:38
  And I think that's something that you have to swallow, that's sometimes where growth comes from and it's why I get excited to enter my forties because I think you start leaving behind a lot of that shit.
• 28:49
  And a lot of that mental shit that clouds you as you're a child, a teenager, and probably into your twenties, where you're just like.
• 28:56
  You make a big deal about everything.
• 28:58
  And I hear when you get into more midlife into your forties is you leave a lot of that stuff behind.
• 29:05
  And that excites me to it's like hopefully a lot of people leave that stuff behind'cause I hate that place.
• 29:10
  You have to work through it because your past is always gonna creep up on you.
• 29:14
  Because I think that if you're wired to think that exclusion equals like danger and then danger, you're gonna label that as like toxic, mean nasty energy.
• 29:23
  You're gonna fight fire with fire, you're never gonna grow from that.
• 29:26
  But I think if you are ready to enter that new chapter and maybe just look at other groups not as an exclusion or a group of mean girls and just this is a different group that i'm not included in and put it to bed.
• 29:40
  I think that's when you start to feel better about your choices.
• 29:43
  For sure.
• 29:44
  Yep.
• 29:44
  I actually, so this was probably like 10 years ago and one of my girlfriends.
• 29:49
  Was having friends over and I drove by the house and I saw all the cars and I came home and I felt awful.
• 29:56
  That's the worst feeling.
• 29:57
  I felt so bad that day and to one of the girls that was at the party was texting my husband for like medical advice.
• 30:06
  One of the other girls was texting me from something else and I was like, no, we're not responding to them.
• 30:12
  They didn't invite us.
• 30:13
  They excluded our family.
• 30:15
  We're not talking to them.
• 30:16
  And I immediately went to we're done.
• 30:18
  Yeah.
• 30:18
  You go to We're done.
• 30:18
  Go to protective defense, right?
• 30:21
  Yeah.
• 30:21
  So then the girl that was the host was one of my good friends and she's older than I am and just like a lot.
• 30:27
  Wiser.
• 30:28
  She's not a mean girl.
• 30:29
  She doesn't talk badly about anybody.
• 30:30
  I've learned a lot from her and she called me the next day and she said, I saw your car pull by and I knew you saw the cars and I felt awful.
• 30:40
  I love you and I know you feel excluded And I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings.
• 30:46
  but just because we're friends doesn't mean I always have to invite you to my home.
• 30:51
  Yep.
• 30:51
  And the same goes for you.
• 30:53
  I want you to feel safe to have friends over at your house and not feel like we have to be there too.
• 30:59
  It's okay.
• 31:00
  And I was just so proud of that call from her because she knew that I was upset and she could have just ignored it and pretend like everything is fine and been like, I didn't do anything wrong.
• 31:10
  Yep.
• 31:10
  But she, instead she leaned into me, she like owned up to, owned, up to, and owned like Yeah.
• 31:15
  To it.
• 31:15
  And not only that, she said you have permission to have whoever you want over and so do I.
• 31:20
  And we can sometimes include each other, but it doesn't have to be every time.
• 31:23
  And it is okay.
• 31:24
  And I just, I loved how she turned that a good approach co could been potential conflict into something that I learned from.
• 31:32
  And she got ahead of it too, on her own end.
• 31:34
  I don't even know if ahead of it is the right way to say it.
• 31:37
  She got, but she just, she could tell that I was icy and.
• 31:41
  I was upset.
• 31:42
  And she she acknowledged that she, I meant she got ahead, meaning she didn't wait for you to approach her.
• 31:49
  Like she was probably like, I know she's probably uncomfortable about this.
• 31:53
  I'm gonna get ahead of it instead of waiting for her to have to come to me.
• 31:57
  And sometimes as the other person, if you're the one that's hurt a lot of the times you have to go to the other person and say, I'm hurt.
• 32:05
  I would've never, I would've never in that situation, and you don't know what would've happened would've would've sat there and about it.
• 32:11
  Silly.
• 32:12
  Why do I, because then the next day I was like, this is silly.
• 32:14
  Why do I even care?
• 32:15
  She should be able to have whatever family she wants over there.
• 32:18
  So you did get over it, like maybe, or you came to terms with it on your own, but then at the same time, she also reached out, which just I thought was nice.
• 32:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:25
  You know, And very mature of her.
• 32:26
  It is very mature and that's just that's something that I would like to take with me and my life.
• 32:33
  Yeah.
• 32:33
  This is a good lesson for sure.
• 32:34
  You know, And show my kids if you're, have the girls are having a birthday party this Friday and they invited a few friends.
• 32:40
  They can only invite five friends each because we're having a birthday party at Lu at the mall, there's only so many people that they can invite.
• 32:46
  So they each had their lists and they invited who they were gonna invite from their class and they said, mommy, what if so and so feels left out?
• 32:54
  And I said to them, this is what I wish my mother told me.
• 32:58
  You are not friends with this girl.
• 33:00
  You are, you're not friends.
• 33:01
  A little bit honesty, it's okay.
• 33:03
  Like a little bit of honesty.
• 33:04
  You're just not that good of friends.
• 33:06
  Yeah.
• 33:06
  Or I'm only allowed to have eight people.
• 33:09
  Just be, I don't know.
• 33:10
  I knows.
• 33:10
  Just a little bit of honesty.
• 33:11
  We're always afraid to be honest.
• 33:13
  I know the honesty goes'cause we're afraid.
• 33:15
  It's such a long way afraid.
• 33:16
  We're afraid to be honest.
• 33:17
  'cause we don't wanna hurt somebody's feelings.
• 33:19
  But the irony is that lying is the best way to hurt somebody's feelings.
• 33:23
  It is.
• 33:23
  I know.
• 33:24
  Yep.
• 33:24
  For sure.
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• 34:52
  Back to the Ashley Tisdale drama.
• 34:56
  'cause I do think that this just has a lot of like important substance Yes.
• 34:59
  That we can like unpack.
• 35:01
  Because somewhere in the article it, it alluded to this being very cliquey, right?
• 35:08
  Going back to a click versus a group, do you think that they're different?
• 35:13
  Or do you think that they're the same?
• 35:14
  I think when I would've originally said that the words can be used interchangeably, a click in a group.
• 35:19
  But now I think that it's different.
• 35:22
  I think groups form more naturally.
• 35:23
  By maybe some shared experiences, maybe the phase of life that you're in.
• 35:28
  Yeah.
• 35:29
  I think that clicks are a little more I don't know.
• 35:34
  Exclusionary powers or you could only be with this group.
• 35:38
  Yes.
• 35:38
  It's like a little more intentional.
• 35:39
  They're not inclusive.
• 35:40
  Yes.
• 35:40
  It's a little bit more intentional.
• 35:42
  I always think of a group, what do you think?
• 35:43
  Yeah.
• 35:43
  'cause I always think of a group very like, fluid, if that makes sense.
• 35:47
  Like it doesn't have to, it doesn't necessarily mean it's.
• 35:51
  Person, A, B, C, D, E, F.
• 35:53
  I think it's more like this is the mom group, right?
• 35:56
  And there could be moms that come in and that's, I'm thinking about it in my own life where it's this is my mom group, right?
• 36:02
  And it's doesn't mean it's, there's five people in it and that's it.
• 36:06
  It means that, okay, there's a bunch of people in it and people come and go and maybe you see some of the same people a little bit more often.
• 36:15
  But it doesn't mean that we only do things with these five people.
• 36:18
  There's multiple people.
• 36:19
  Sometimes there's a group of eight, sometimes it's a group of 10, sometimes it's a group of three.
• 36:24
  And I think that it's a little bit more fluid.
• 36:25
  Clicky to me, feels very intentional.
• 36:30
  It feels like you had said like where it's like it's these people and it's exclusionary on purpose.
• 36:35
  It's like we are.
• 36:37
  It's this five of us and that's it.
• 36:40
  And nobody comes in and nobody goes out.
• 36:42
  And it's, it seems to me just a little bit more firm.
• 36:45
  And that seems like toxic.
• 36:46
  Very, that's like a good, that's a place where you use that word.
• 36:49
  And I think that's why sometimes when you say there's a group and it gets labeled as toxic, that's tough.
• 36:57
  So I would be curious to unpack the Ashley Tisdale drama that we're saying, because it's was that a mom group?
• 37:05
  Yeah.
• 37:06
  Where, or was it a true click or was it very cliquey?
• 37:09
  And we don't know.
• 37:10
  Because like I said, the article was a lot know nothing but it, therefore I don't feel like it should have been written because there wasn't context around it.
• 37:18
  But I think there's a very big distinction.
• 37:22
  Yeah.
• 37:22
  And I think that you need to know it as somebody in the group or clique, and then you need to know it as an outsider.
• 37:28
  Yeah.
• 37:28
  And that's hard to sometimes come to terms with, I think when you are around a group of people and you feel a sense of belonging and you feel safe.
• 37:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:36
  I think you're in the right group for sure.
• 37:37
  I think if you're in a clique and you're afraid, if you're not there, you're missing something or you're gonna be talked about or then you're gonna be out of the click.
• 37:44
  Yes.
• 37:44
  That's a good distinction of whether it's just like a nice group where you feel at peace and you're with your people or, oh no, I have to be with this.
• 37:54
  Group'cause if or this clique.
• 37:55
  'cause if I'm not there, then I'm gonna be left out.
• 37:58
  Yes.
• 37:58
  And not the end.
• 37:58
  They'll forget all about me.
• 37:59
  Yes.
• 37:59
  And you're not in the right spot.
• 38:00
  Like you're watching.
• 38:02
  Tell me lies.
• 38:02
  Obviously we're gonna talk about, tell me lies.
• 38:04
  That is a toxic clique for sure.
• 38:06
  They are together, they're always together, but they don't even all like each other.
• 38:11
  They all talk, they all lie to each other.
• 38:13
  That's like a toxic, that's a toxic click for sure.
• 38:16
  Yep.
• 38:17
  And I've been part of both.
• 38:18
  Yeah.
• 38:18
  So I feel like I could say that in my life I've been part of both.
• 38:22
  So you can spot it.
• 38:23
  You can spot it.
• 38:24
  For sure.
• 38:24
  And I think sometimes, when you're in both, when you're in a, what is perceived as a click or it's, it is a click.
• 38:31
  And then, when you're just part of a natural group that forms, like we said, because of a shared experience, because of shared, life, I don't know, whatever.
• 38:39
  'cause of shared experiences.
• 38:41
  I'm assuming, because you've shared this before and I know you so well, but have you ever been somebody that people tend to go to, to resolve conflict between either like a group or a clique all the time?
• 38:53
  Are all the time.
• 38:54
  Yeah.
• 38:54
  You're the sounding board all the time.
• 38:57
  So I have friends that are not friends with each other.
• 38:59
  And I used to think that it was a pain point for me, but then what I realized it makes me look like a bad friend, number one, if I bash a friend to another friend.
• 39:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:08
  Like, And also like that's what a shitty person does.
• 39:13
  So sometimes I can just listen and I have a lot of friends that are not friends with each other, and which is also why sometimes when I'm in a large group of women, I get, you get anxious, a little reclusive and anxious.
• 39:24
  Because I.
• 39:26
  Know the conversations that occur.
• 39:29
  And I would never ever share them.
• 39:31
  I keep them to myself.
• 39:32
  Because I have a trust with my friends.
• 39:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:34
  And sometimes they're just venting and they feel this way today.
• 39:36
  They may even not feel this way next week.
• 39:38
  Right.
• 39:38
  And understand, and I appreciate it, but I, you don't need to take a side when friends don't get along.
• 39:45
  You can, sometimes it might provoke something in you though oh, if they feel this way should I feel this way?
• 39:51
  Should I feel this way?
• 39:52
  Yeah.
• 39:52
  Sometimes that could get, that can get slippery, but different people bring up different things in you.
• 39:56
  So I also don't even think that's true.
• 39:58
  I think that some people just really don't jive because it brings out things that they don't like in each other about themselves.
• 40:04
  And like it might be like two type A people that are alphas and they just can't jive together.
• 40:11
  And I'm not, I'm the type B periphery friend.
• 40:14
  So I get along really well with both of them.
• 40:16
  And I also think that groups sometimes there can be synergy between different types of people in a group.
• 40:24
  Yeah.
• 40:24
  And it works in a group and not individual.
• 40:27
  Yeah.
• 40:27
  You know what I mean?
• 40:28
  Where as a group, you're better off as a group than one-on-one friendships breaking off from that because sometimes there's not enough balance if people are two of the same or there's, they're two different and you need the balance of the group.
• 40:41
  So I think submits a defense and I have friends that I get along with beautifully one-on-one, but when they're together I'm like, oh God, I can't take the two of you together.
• 40:50
  It's too much for me.
• 40:51
  Just like I'm sure when I'm one-on-one with another friend, like if I'm with one friend, somebody can't take the two of us.
• 40:57
  'Cause we're very similar in some ways.
• 40:59
  Like you are too much, energy.
• 41:01
  But it happens all the time.
• 41:04
  But I think that, I guess that would be my advice is you can have friends.
• 41:08
  And you can be in the same room as friends that don't get along.
• 41:10
  As long as you are, you keep your check and balances in order that you don't talk badly about the friends ever to each other.
• 41:18
  It'll just make the situation worse.
• 41:19
  Yep.
• 41:20
  I think probably what's like most important to say is like adult friendships.
• 41:24
  It is imperative that you do not use a spokesperson and that you have just direct.
• 41:29
  Communication.
• 41:30
  And I think that when you have friendships that have stood the test of time, so if you're bringing friendships in from other seasons of your life and you're still friends with those people, I think that you naturally have to shift sometimes out of the, I don't wanna say immature,'cause it doesn't necessarily mean that you were immature, but you have to allow growth mm-hmm.
• 41:52
  within yourself and the group of people because you're moving into a different season of your life with the same people.
• 42:00
  And sometimes bad habits from when you were younger can stick with you, right?
• 42:05
  So you have to almost allow as a group this like newfound energy and maturity into those friendships.
• 42:12
  And then I think that when you meet new people.
• 42:16
  You almost have to go into it with a different mentality than you did when you were younger, meeting friendships, like just so that it keeps this mature balance there.
• 42:25
  Yes.
• 42:26
  When you meet people in a later season of life, you're all coming in with new mature energy perspective.
• 42:32
  However, you all still have immature tendencies.
• 42:34
  Everybody has immature tendencies.
• 42:36
  So then if you expect something of one person and then you're seeing like, oh wait you're, you still act this way.
• 42:42
  I think everybody can have regression.
• 42:44
  In anything.
• 42:45
  In a, yeah.
• 42:45
  For different situations.
• 42:46
  For sure.
• 42:47
  I think directness with friends is a great way to keep up that new mature energy.
• 42:53
  I think what I have just tried to remember is that, and I've said this so many times, I feel like this has become, my line on the podcast is not every.
• 43:01
  Discomfort needs a confrontation.
• 43:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 43:03
  That's something that I have had to learn, right?
• 43:06
  That not everything needs to be a thing, and sometimes you have to do a little bit of reflection.
• 43:11
  I think that's part of being a grownup in any relationship.
• 43:13
  You have to know.
• 43:14
  It's pick your battles, right?
• 43:16
  Not everything can be a battle.
• 43:18
  There's no time or energy for that.
• 43:21
  So you have to learn that and figure it out.
• 43:24
  Like what, what needs to be a battle and what doesn't need to be a battle?
• 43:27
  What needs to be a thing?
• 43:28
  What doesn't need to be a thing?
• 43:29
  And then I think that not every exclusion needs a narrative, right?
• 43:35
  So not every single thing that happens needs some drama story around it.
• 43:43
  Like you just gave the example of your friend not.
• 43:46
  Inviting you to that party where she had friends over, she didn't make up a story.
• 43:51
  And it wasn't a ni Exactly.
• 43:51
  That could have turned into a lie.
• 43:53
  'cause I think that narratives and lies are cousins.
• 43:56
  Yes.
• 43:56
  So I think they are.
• 43:58
  And again, like if somebody over explains something, I'm like, you're lying.
• 44:02
  Yes.
• 44:02
  Don't lie.
• 44:03
  It makes it worse.
• 44:04
  Yep.
• 44:04
  You're trying to take the heat off you.
• 44:06
  Now you're passing it to me.
• 44:07
  Yep.
• 44:07
  Now I'm annoyed about the lie.
• 44:09
  I'm not, I wasn't even annoyed about the exclusion.
• 44:11
  Yeah.
• 44:11
  I'm annoyed more about the explanation and even the narrative, if we're using that as an example of she could have been with friend Ab and C and not included you as friend D.
• 44:22
  Right.
• 44:22
  But then that doesn't mean that now friend A, B, and C are a clique.
• 44:28
  Where it's okay, now when she invites a friend A, B, and C, you're always not included.
• 44:32
  You know what I mean?
• 44:33
  That's also a narrative that could go.
• 44:35
  You can be included in that next time.
• 44:37
  And you don't have to say, oh, every time now she's with these friends.
• 44:40
  I'm not included in that.
• 44:42
  You don't have to create your own narrative.
• 44:44
  Because that's another lie.
• 44:45
  You're just telling yourself.
• 44:46
  Exactly.
• 44:46
  Exactly.
• 44:47
  So it's as the friend, you don't wanna create the narrative and then as the person, you don't also wanna have to create a narrative all the time.
• 44:55
  'cause that's when you have these very toxic situations that start happening.
• 45:00
  And I think that just as we go into our forties, I feel like this whole year is gonna be us saying as we enter our next decade.
• 45:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 45:07
  So sorry if that gets annoying everybody but it, I think like emotional maturity is knowing when you wanna speak, like when it's appropriate to speak about something, when it's appropriate to repair something, and then when it's appropriate to redirect.
• 45:21
  Like I think that those are things that just become like learned as you go through life.
• 45:26
  And sometimes you do need to redirect, you need to go the other way from a friendship.
• 45:31
  That's okay.
• 45:32
  I think sometimes you need to know when to speak up about something and then you need to know when to repair it.
• 45:38
  That's like the goal right?
• 45:40
  Is to learn to do those things so that you can go through having these different friendships and female friendships strongly.
• 45:48
  And I think, we're moms and I think that everything always comes back to now, learning how to do these things, but also modeling for our kids.
• 45:54
  I think that when we model communication over resentment we teach our kids Yeah.
• 46:00
  How to repair and not just explode.
• 46:03
  And again, my parents did the best that they could, but I think that this was something that wasn't necessarily modeled to me.
• 46:10
  And I would like to model for my kids that.
• 46:13
  Conflict isn't negative.
• 46:14
  It doesn't always have to be negative.
• 46:16
  No.
• 46:16
  Conflict doesn't always have to be negative.
• 46:17
  Nope.
• 46:17
  Nope.
• 46:18
  Because the resolution with that comes with conflict.
• 46:20
  Shows extreme maturity and growth, and those are good qualities.
• 46:24
  And I wanna just keep saying that to myself, that if you are somebody that has conflict, you're not a mean girl.
• 46:30
  Just you're just somebody that is having conflict and you want a resolution.
• 46:34
  I think that we use the term mean girl, like we use it way too much, where it just, it gets thrown around.
• 46:40
  I also think that we use the term girls girl, and it gets thrown around way too much.
• 46:45
  I think that it's easy to just label anybody who has boundaries as a mean girl.
• 46:51
  It's just okay.
• 46:53
  Anybody who has any sort of opinion about anything female related is a mean girl.
• 46:59
  And then I think that it's also easy for everybody to label themselves as a girl's girl.
• 47:04
  And I don't think everybody is a girl's girl.
• 47:05
  I think that those two have lost the meaning because they're just thrown around so much, what is the quality that you would think like for you?
• 47:14
  And also people have different meanings of what they think a mean girl or a girl's girl is.
• 47:19
  But for you, what is something that would like, just hits at your core?
• 47:24
  Triggers you, that's for both.
• 47:25
  That's like mean girl behavior.
• 47:26
  Oh, I think for me, I think it's the intention behind an action, right?
• 47:30
  I think that it, when things are deliberately done to hurt somebody's feelings, to make them feel excluded, to make them feel less than, I think that is quote unquote, a mean girl.
• 47:42
  When you don't have, when things are somebody's like best interest at heart, and when everything is self-centered, I think that's what I would describe as a mean girl.
• 47:50
  I think what you're, what we were talking about before was if you're somebody who puts up boundaries, who maybe likes to keep, who's around them a little bit smaller, that's not a mean girl.
• 48:03
  That's somebody who knows themselves.
• 48:05
  Or a cookie girl.
• 48:05
  That's right.
• 48:06
  That's somebody who like knows themself.
• 48:08
  They have a boundary.
• 48:09
  They wanna honor that boundary.
• 48:11
  They know what they're comfortable with.
• 48:13
  And maybe you're not a part of that.
• 48:15
  That doesn't mean that, that they're a mean girl.
• 48:18
  I think that it's the intention, the kind of I just envision like visually like a sneaky type of person that's like a mean girl to me.
• 48:27
  Okay.
• 48:28
  So a little bit more intentional.
• 48:28
  Do you feel the same way?
• 48:30
  I think a mean girl is somebody that deflects off themselves when the heat, when their feet is held that good, held to the fire a good way.
• 48:38
  Yeah, that's a good one.
• 48:38
  That is a mean girl.
• 48:39
  And I think all of us have done that.
• 48:41
  Of course, at some point in, I'm sure everybody can be a mean girl.
• 48:44
  They've had, when I think of a mean girl, it's somebody that when their feet is held to the fire, they can't just say the truth.
• 48:51
  Yeah.
• 48:51
  Which is, ugh, I'm sorry, so very, very little self-awareness that was accidental or it was not intentional.
• 48:58
  Instead, they.
• 48:59
  Over explain and put it on someone else.
• 49:02
  Put it back to you.
• 49:03
  Yeah.
• 49:03
  Yeah.
• 49:03
  That for me, that's mean girl tendencies.
• 49:06
  And then what about a girl's girl to you?
• 49:08
  What is a true girl's girl to you?
• 49:10
  I think a true girl's girl.
• 49:11
  Somebody that is still boundaried.
• 49:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 49:13
  But just loves on their friends.
• 49:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 49:16
  And looks out for them.
• 49:17
  I would agree with you.
• 49:18
  I just feel like just somebody that like truly has their back.
• 49:24
  Yes.
• 49:24
  I feel like it's somebody, it's that phrase, there's room for everybody at the table, where you really genuinely feel like people are not always a threat to you.
• 49:36
  You know what I mean?
• 49:38
  I think that a true girl's girl is actually supportive and not just in a role that is seen in social media or just it's behind the scenes support.
• 49:47
  Yes.
• 49:48
  Innately protective of their friends.
• 49:49
  And I think supportive, like support and protection is probably what I would think of as two qualit girls.
• 49:56
  Girls.
• 49:56
  I think sometimes it's like above yourself, right?
• 49:58
  Like I think it's very easy for people to be very self-centered and you, yes, of course you like love on other women and you wanna support other women, but do you have to support yourself first before you can support somebody else?
• 50:12
  I think sometimes in cer certain situations, if you can put others.
• 50:17
  Ahead of you.
• 50:18
  I think that's when you're like a true girl's girl.
• 50:20
  Like you're not just doing something because it benefits you.
• 50:24
  You know what I mean?
• 50:25
  Like you're not just supporting somebody because it benefits you.
• 50:29
  You're supporting someone because it benefits them.
• 50:32
  Like I think that's the definition for me of a girl's girl.
• 50:35
  You're not gonna support me because I'll go and publicly support you.
• 50:40
  You're doing it because you love me and you wanna support me.
• 50:43
  You believe in this, you believe in this.
• 50:45
  And so I feel, I try to be that for people.
• 50:48
  And I love when that's done for me.
• 50:51
  When that's when I really feel comfortable with that term, the girl's girl vibe.
• 50:54
  I also think just because you're a girl's girl doesn't mean you're a doormat either, and you always have to put others first.
• 50:59
  No, I think it's very subjective and I think it doesn't mean that you have to be a girl's girl to everybody.
• 51:04
  And again, these definitions, don't th these aren't, this is not like Miriam Webster.
• 51:10
  No.
• 51:10
  This is like what it means to, this is just what it means to me and this Yeah.
• 51:14
  Season of life.
• 51:15
  A girl's girl is in somebody that shames me.
• 51:18
  A girl's girl is somebody that points out a mistake without shame.
• 51:23
  Yep.
• 51:23
  Those are different things.
• 51:25
  Or could point something out with a supportive angle, right?
• 51:28
  A girl's girl is somebody that shares our podcast because they're proud of it.
• 51:33
  Not because they want attention brought to their page from it.
• 51:36
  Like, when you do things selflessly, that's what it Yes.
• 51:39
  To really just purely support another person that you care deeply about.
• 51:43
  Yes.
• 51:43
  Yes.
• 51:44
  And I do think that what you said is true, like that could get slippery.
• 51:47
  Where you don't want that to be, that you're a doormat to other people.
• 51:50
  It doesn't, that's not what I'm saying.
• 51:52
  But I think that the selfless part of it is what makes it, that, that phrase to me true.
• 51:59
  I think that the selfless part, when I'm making decisions through my day I have to make some decisions that are self selfish and I have to make some that are selfless.
• 52:07
  But I think that as long as I keep my balances in check I will remain a good friend.
• 52:13
  Right.
• 52:14
  A good mother, a good wife, and I'll be proud of myself.
• 52:18
  Okay.
• 52:18
  So we're gonna wrap this up.
• 52:19
  I think we should definitely maybe we should have a series of kind of this female friendships, because I think there's just so much to unpack and I think we've touched on so many things that could, we can expand on and have our own episode like about certain topics.
• 52:33
  So I, again, I feel like we just scratched the surface, but we have to wrap it up.
• 52:38
  So let's share our pink spotlight of the week.
• 52:41
  So our pink spotlight is each week t and I share a person, place, think, tip, or mantra, something that's making life a little bit better this week.
• 52:49
  Do you have anything that you wanna share?
• 52:51
  So mine is like a one-liner.
• 52:53
  Ooh.
• 52:53
  And I overheard.
• 52:55
  My husband giving this advice to my son the other day.
• 52:58
  So Joseph got a new hockey stick for Christmas and he said, mom, I'm excited about my stick.
• 53:05
  I love my new stick, but one of the other kids on my team has, my stick has this stick.
• 53:11
  And what am I gonna say to him?
• 53:12
  If he says, you're copying me.
• 53:14
  I have that same stick, you're copying me.
• 53:16
  So Nick said to him, ask him what's his point?
• 53:21
  What's your point?
• 53:22
  And if he can give you a point I don't like the fact that we have the same stick, you're copying me, that's worth a conversation.
• 53:29
  Or you can say I wanted it too, but if he doesn't have a point and he's just saying it in the locker room to be a dick, then you know, this kid's just being a, yeah.
• 53:37
  This kid's just being a jerk.
• 53:39
  And you have my permission to say to him, you're just being a jerk.
• 53:42
  But anyways, but.
• 53:43
  I was thinking about that, like asking somebody what's their point takes the air out of the tires and takes all of this, like overthinking that it, so if somebody says something to you and they may not mean anything by it.
• 53:56
  Yeah.
• 53:57
  It just may be anything at all that you're just like, ugh.
• 54:00
  That I would maybe go and spiral over and call my husband and be like, what the f you know, my usual phone calls to him.
• 54:07
  My response could be, what's your point?
• 54:09
  Or what did you mean by that?
• 54:10
  What did you mean by that?
• 54:11
  Yep.
• 54:12
  If there's a response, there's a why.
• 54:14
  My point is you need to be more organized and we have a deadline.
• 54:18
  And my point was that you need to have this in.
• 54:21
  Okay.
• 54:21
  If there is a point, I'm good with that, but if there's really no point and it's circling the drain and you're saying it to start something or just to make someone feel something, then I can just give, you can just give a look back.
• 54:31
  Yeah.
• 54:32
  Seems like this is a you thing.
• 54:33
  It goes to what we've been talking about where is the next step to address what made you uncomfortable?
• 54:39
  And you have to sit there and say, is this now a conflict or is this just something that made me uncomfortable?
• 54:45
  Yeah, but I You're putting it back, back on somebody.
• 54:46
  But if you say what's your point?
• 54:47
  And then you maybe find out immediately, right?
• 54:49
  But there was no point.
• 54:50
  This isn't anything.
• 54:51
  Then you don't have to go back.
• 54:53
  You're nipping it in the bud.
• 54:54
  Yeah.
• 54:54
  Yeah.
• 54:55
  That's interesting.
• 54:56
  And I like that was advice like from a dad to a son too.
• 54:59
  Sometimes the guys just, it's like easy.
• 55:01
  He just they think of it sometimes and it's yeah, you should ask somebody if they say something weird to you like that.
• 55:06
  What does that mean?
• 55:08
  Very simply.
• 55:09
  What did you mean by that?
• 55:10
  I don't get it.
• 55:10
  What did you mean by that?
• 55:12
  Anyways, so that's my, it's also slightly calling somebody out in a very gentle way of what does she mean by that?
• 55:18
  Okay.
• 55:18
  And, like it.
• 55:20
  So anyways, so yeah.
• 55:21
  So my son, it's still, it's just, middle school, you're copying me.
• 55:25
  Yeah.
• 55:25
  Yeah.
• 55:26
  We have the same hockey stick.
• 55:27
  Yeah.
• 55:27
  There's only so many hockey sticks.
• 55:29
  I'm sure that make sense for the team, that's what I'm gonna practice.
• 55:33
  Practice.
• 55:34
  Just like when Charlotte said, when she saw big, she'd say I cursed the day you were born to use it.
• 55:40
  You have to practice it.
• 55:41
  Practice it.
• 55:41
  Just comes out natural.
• 55:42
  I like that.
• 55:43
  Yeah.
• 55:43
  I'll let you know if I ever use, I know if I ever have the balls to use it.
• 55:48
  Mine this week is, I I have been doing a lot of mocktails.
• 55:53
  I talked about like my beverage is changing and so I no longer drink a lot of coffee and I no longer drink a lot of alcohol.
• 56:01
  And I think that the, making those two shifts for me currently in this season has been very beneficial to me.
• 56:07
  And, but sometimes I just want a little something like even on Christmas I was like, this is like a celebration.
• 56:14
  I want a little something like, I want something other than water or matcha or coffee.
• 56:19
  Like you just want something different.
• 56:20
  And so I found this company called alos, I believe that's how you say it.
• 56:24
  Oh, yeah.
• 56:24
  You posted about some Instagram I've been posting about them because over the summer I had tried, they are a, like a mocktail brand, and they have carbonated cans and they're made to taste like some cocktails.
• 56:36
  So the one that I really is a Negroni, and it's called a Mando Negroni.
• 56:42
  That's the one, it's an orange can, it's very good.
• 56:45
  It has, lion's mane in it.
• 56:47
  Magnesium, it's to chill you out and make you feel good so you don't feel like buzzy at all.
• 56:52
  But you just feel good and it's delicious.
• 56:55
  So I love putting it on ice.
• 56:56
  I feel like it just gives you the taste of something else.
• 57:00
  So you feel like it's a treat you a seltzer.
• 57:02
  Yeah.
• 57:02
  Yeah.
• 57:03
  'cause I feel like even with a seltzer, like I do drink a lot of seltzers and so that's not special enough, like I want something else.
• 57:09
  So this still tastes like a drink, it has all these other things.
• 57:12
  So you do feel like pretty good are when you're taking, are those considered adaptogens?
• 57:15
  Yes, it is.
• 57:16
  It is.
• 57:16
  Okay.
• 57:17
  And then there's another one that is, that I like that's called Calm.
• 57:21
  And that one is not carbonated, which I like because sometimes I feel like the carbonated drinks can get a little funky.
• 57:27
  Yeah.
• 57:27
  You just, yeah.
• 57:27
  And this one you can add, like sometimes I'll add a splash of club soda, but just to cut it.
• 57:32
  And this one is really good.
• 57:33
  It's very like citrusy.
• 57:35
  There's hemp in it, so it's just very calming and I just love them.
• 57:39
  I feel like that's a nice one for when you're unwinding.
• 57:41
  The other one I like when I'm.
• 57:42
  Somewhere.
• 57:43
  And I just wanna be like sipping on something that looks like a cocktail, like the other one looks like a negroni.
• 57:47
  So it's like that pretty like bitter orange color.
• 57:49
  And then this one is just nice to like, relax with.
• 57:51
  So I just love it.
• 57:52
  Good so much.
• 57:53
  And I'm, you did gimme too, so I'll put the code in the show notes for you to use if you wanna try it, because I'm sure a lot of people are doing dry January and I feel like people just in general, it seems like people are trying to cut back or just have a little bit of another option to, than always going to a glass of wine or like always going to.
• 58:11
  A cocktail.
• 58:12
  It's just nice to have something else.
• 58:13
  Yeah.
• 58:14
  Especially like if you're not feeling well it's also flu season.
• 58:16
  Like I don't drink when I don't feel good.
• 58:18
  No, I know.
• 58:19
  And I feel like this year, this time of year, you, I didn't drink a lot over the holiday because I wasn't feeling well.
• 58:22
  I feel like a lot of people were saying that.
• 58:24
  And I also feel like this time of year, it's just it's depressing enough, and so I feel like it's cold.
• 58:30
  It gets dark early and I feel like, I don't know, sometimes that's, it's that's what you wanna do is you wanna pop open a bottle of wine, but this is also nice too, if you wanna have a cocktail, but then switch to something else.
• 58:42
  So it doesn't have to be like all or nothing.
• 58:44
  But it's nice to have an option.
• 58:46
  So if you wanna cut back, maybe only have one drink or something, and then switch to this.
• 58:49
  It's really good.
• 58:50
  Okay.
• 58:51
  So what's it called again?
• 58:52
  It's called Aplos, I believes.
• 58:53
  A-P-L-O-S.
• 58:55
  Okay.
• 58:56
  I like it.
• 58:56
  And it comes in a pretty can.
• 58:57
  It does if you wanna drink it in a can or I, but I always like to have it in like a fancy glass.
• 59:01
  I feel like the fancy glass.
• 59:03
  It's the vibe.
• 59:04
  Yes.
• 59:05
  I feel like that, that alone give me a fancy glass and you can put water in it.
• 59:08
  And I feel like it's something else, like as long as it's not in my Stanley, oh my God.
• 59:13
  Our emotional support cups.
• 59:15
  Alrighty.
• 59:16
  This has been a great talk.
• 59:17
  Yes.
• 59:18
  And guys, please remember to, if you loved this episode, you can rate, subscribe, leave us a review.
• 59:25
  We love you.
• 59:26
  Yes.
• 59:26
  Thank you so much.
• 59:27
  Share with the girls girl.
• 59:28
  Yes.
• 59:29
  Have share as a girls girl.
• 59:30
  Bye bye.