Latest / Surviving-ISH Podcast / Breaking Stereotypes: Jacob Fraser's Fight for a Better World

Transcript

Breaking Stereotypes: Jacob Fraser's Fight for a Better World · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I messaged today's guest after coming across a TikTok that got 323.1 thousand likes and over 3 thousand comments.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I immediately messaged him and he responded.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: His content is full of videos bringing awareness on topics that are very important.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Jacob Fraser, man, thank you for responding to my message.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I am jealous because you have.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: your very first video is dated 323 four weeks ago, and you've had several videos go viral.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: You have a huge following.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I cannot get there for some reason, and TikTok hates everything that I talk about.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: So I'm trying to learn from you and I'll watch you and I'll follow you And, man, it's such an honor to have you here.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you, i'm super excited to be here.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I love that this has brought us together in this way.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: So, if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about you and your history.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: My history.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I did not grow up in the city I'm in now.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I live in Vancouver and I grew up way in Northern BC, in Prince George, and I'm sure some people might know where that is, but a lot of people in the States won't know.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: It's the West Coast of Canada and it's this landlocked town way up there.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: It's a working town.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: It pretty much only exists because of the sawmills that are there.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: That's why it was formed in the first place And it's where they make Republicans.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Basically, it's not very progressive, it's not very artistic, but I was raised by a very interesting woman.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Just my father wasn't around, so it was me and my two siblings.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And my mother has been a free thinking hippie since before.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It was cool.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: She didn't let us go to public school, so we were homeschooled the entire way And we were just constantly taught about questioning the government, questioning established norms, questioning authority, critical thinking.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: She read us Victorian literature and Russian literature when we were children when we were far too young, i might add.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Nobody used to read crime and punishment when they're seven, but they had a very interesting upbringing that didn't really set me up to fit in that town, so I spent some time there.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I went to university when I was very young and it was a lot of fun, but I did not want to be a psychologist, so I worked for CN Rail.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I moved all over Western Canada driving a freight train for a couple of years And then I became a tradesman.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I went back to school to be an electrician And then, right when the pandemic hit is when I finished that And that's when my life changed in a big way.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Because I hadn't taken a vacation, i hadn't stopped to consider what I was doing.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Really At that point it was a string of failed relationships and just general unhappiness.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I had a few really tough times of my mental health at that point And I wasn't really sure how to fix it.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: So just before the pandemic I started going to therapy And that really opened me up to how unhappy I was and how much of my own suffering I was causing.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And then the pandemic hit and it was the perfect reality check for me to be the whole world stopping.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So maybe I can stop too.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And I was just about to pay my tuition for a engineering school in Calgary And I am so thankful that I didn't hit that send button And instead I moved down to Vancouver.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I came down to visit for a few weeks and then that turned into a few months And now that's turned into a few years.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, i was 28 at the time and it felt like all that creativity I've been stifling up for 28 years just came pouring out And I had all of these avenues to connect with people and value the relationships in my life in a completely different way.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: And at this point, honestly, i'm unrecognizable to who I was.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Before that, i used to be obsessed with financial security and buying more property and planning for my retirement, and now I'm happy for the first time in my life, which is super exciting.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And yeah, i'm not focused on work.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I try to work as little as I possibly can so I can focus on my new career and all the opportunities there.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: It's honestly surreal sometimes to take a look at my life and where I've come from and where I've gotten to.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, i love that You have such a graceful, classy, educational punch, the gut way of getting points across.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: And the video that I'm specifically talking about with that is one of your first ones and the title of this garage And it's you talking about this father figure, and so you tell the story and the whole time I'm like oh man, oh man.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And then you're like I'm just kidding, i don't even have a father And what I thought was so brilliant about.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Do you remember what I was talking about?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I totally forgot about that one.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: That was my very first video, wasn't it?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: But what I thought was so brilliant about it is you found a way to make these points that people need to hear, And they're tough points that are hard to swallow, but you ended it with a little bit of of a joke, but it's one of those.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: There's truth behind every joke And I've probably you're going to get an alert on your phone That is some dude in the States is stalking you.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: It's me, don't worry, you're safe because, like I, was just so mind blown with it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: How do you think it's?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I don't even know how to ask this question.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: What gave you the talent of being open to share things but know how to turn it in a way to get people to listen?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, i want to say that whenever I come on a new podcast I haven't done this in a while, but there's always this anxiety that the host, whatever well-intentioned person they are, will not be a good interviewer.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: And that's a fantastic question.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fantastic.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, it's been a lot of privilege And I think that is really the through line of everything that I've been doing for the last few years is really just understanding my privilege and understanding the space and the time it gives me, because I, first of all, when I went on social media, it really showed me that I need to be a little more in touch with the world, because the things I was saying, i did not think they were that controversial, i did not think that people were going to have that kind of reaction to it, but they're really heavy topics They are.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: They're about sexual assault and the safety of women and discrimination and homophobia, and I have experienced all those things from the other side of privilege.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: And so I have the time and the space.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I have the mental energy that is not given to the people who are being actively oppressed and actively affected by these things, because I can pass as straight any day of the week.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I can pass as traditionally masculine whenever I want.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I have all the social cachet that you need to survive in a toxic world.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I'm tall, i'm muscular, i have tattoos.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: The way I want to present myself and the way I want to be myself is rarely discriminated against, and I think that's where I have all the time and space to think about these things, because I'm not really experiencing them.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: My heart is breaking for the people in my life that are experiencing them, but I'm not.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And one of the questions I always ask myself is what can I do?
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: And that's a question I ask other people too.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Right, i go what can you do?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: And sometimes the answer is they can take care of themselves.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the answer is you can reach out and do more for other people.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the answer is you can talk about it, you can be an advocate, and the answer to that question for me is always a fuckload, a lot.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Right, because I'm a almost middle-aged, straight-passing white man in cisgender white man, for that matter in North America.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Right, it does not get more privileged than this And being able to pass in that world, it just really shields me from so much shit, so much discrimination, and I think it would really be ultimately disrespectful to the people in my life who do experience that, the people who raised me, the people who love me, to not take some of that energy and put it right back into helping the community that supports me.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I would like to hear from you and I know that you've already touched on it, but I would like to hear from you what privilege is and means to you.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: To me, privilege is.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I split privilege into two different boxes.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: It's privilege you can say no to and privilege you can't say no to.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And I've got a laundry list of my privileges.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: They're insane, but really we're discovering new ones every day.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I'm discovering new ones every day.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: The more I talk about it, the more I connect with people over it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: there are things that I just had no idea about, and I think that's an experience that a lot of white people and straight-passing people and cisgender people aren't.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Really There's no motivation for them to dig into it and really understand why it's happening, and that's tough because it's so important And I think if they did understand it, they would really want to do something about it.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: It would be tragic if we all could snap our fingers and suddenly understand the privilege that we're experiencing that we don't even know about, because there's a lot of privilege we don't even know about, and that's why I hesitate to quantify it, because I haven't tracked down all my privilege yet.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I couldn't possibly Someone would have to literally study me And for me, i know there were certain events in my life that made me sit up and go okay, this needs to be investigated.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I need to really think about this and have a look at the people around me, because when I grew up, even though I didn't go to public school, nothing in our society prepared me to understand my privilege or prepared me to understand racism or exposed me to what racism was.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I'm a little embarrassed to say this.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Until I was in my early teens, i didn't think racism was real because I had never seen it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: It was talked about in shows and TV, but we had friends of different races.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: We didn't treat them any different, so I was like must not be a real thing.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I was never exposed to the experiences of other people and I could have gone my whole life that way.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It was really.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I always credit my siblings because they're the ones that really would not allow me to not understand these things.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: They were fantastic.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: They were both huge parts of the pride societies and university.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: They're huge into activism One of them is a sociologist and the other one is a anthropologist And they go down to South America to work with women shelters down there and help them connect the women with the resources that they actually need instead of what the government gives them Like.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: They're unbelievable people And it's really tragic to me that the only reason I'm aware of how much the rest of the world is suffering and how much I'm not because of the color of my skin and the way I dress, is because I had those incredible people in my life.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: There's not enough of those incredible people to go around.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Something needs to change systemically, something needs to be injected into the media that helps us understand this way, these things, in a way that doesn't make people feel like they're being attacked.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Not that I'm up for protecting the feelings of brave little cis boys by any means, but it does need to be communicated.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you're 100% correct.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: One of your videos that really stood out to me, on this topic too, is you have a video where you show that you paint your nails black, and in the video you were stating that because of your appearance, because of the way you present yourself, because of the masculine mainly job that you have, no one really says anything.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: But if I came in with black nails, it would be different for me to do it than for you to do it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think I don't know if you saw it I made another video just yesterday that went viral and it was me responding to that video, because that was also the second TikTok I ever made.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't expect half a million people to watch it.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I wasn't being that careful of what I was saying.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, i can do those things now with zero consequences, absolutely zero.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: If anything, my job is more secure, because there'd be a big discrimination suit if they fired them.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Because I'm at a point in my career where I'm a supervisor, where I was headhunted for the job I have now and they really wanted me to do the job because of my experience and also because there's a tragic shortage of tradesmen.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: That's not all me, but I'm at a position where they need me more than they hate me, i guess more than they care about keeping homophobic people happy, and that hasn't always been true.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And in this video that I made just the other day of responding to myself, i wanted to address all the comments I got on that video, because a lot of them were saying you're so brave.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: This is incredible.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: You're such a wonderful person And I was like I'm really not doing anything.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I'm expressing myself when there's no risk to doing so, absolutely no risk, and that's not anything.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: That's just me living my life when I'm in a position where no one can discriminate against me for it.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Who I really feel for?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: There's actually one kid on our job site.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: He's on a different portion of the job site so I don't supervise him, but he's in his early 20s And I worked with him a few years ago and he's gay And at the time he was in a relationship with a man in his 60s And that's something that people are going to jump on right away.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: They don't understand it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: They're going to be upset about it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: He's an adult, he can make his own choices, but they're not going to see it that way.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: They're going to be like that's fucked up and you're gay and he's going to get treated differently And he presents as less gay than I am at work, as less queer than I am.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he's specifically gay, but he has to worry about all those things.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: He has to worry about the stability of his job.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: He has to worry about is he going to have a career?
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: he has to worry about paying his rent next month if he gets laid off because, even though nobody said anything outright.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: His foreman is a bit homophobic and he was like ah, we need to lay somebody off, so it's going to be him.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: And those are the people that really do have to be brave about who they are.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And not that I think it's necessary what I'm doing, but it's not admirable by any means, and I want people to understand the difference between that, not because I feel the need to publicly humble myself, but because I want everyone out there to know that if they can do it, they should do it.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: If it's not going to hurt you, if it's not going to affect your job stability, if it's not going to affect your life in any way, then it's your responsibility to your community to be doing those things.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It's not just an admirable thing to do or a nice thing to do.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It's what you have to be doing.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I agree And that kind of goes back to the very first conversation that we had is you're able to get away.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: We're like in better words with things that some can, and the fact that you acknowledge that and you're trying to bring awareness to that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I could hear your intent.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: People are really taken with you And I love that you see that and that you're using that in such a powerful way, because the world needs that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: The video that I watched, that the very first video that I watched when I was like, okay, i've got to message this guy, i would love to take a minute and talk about that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: So the video talks about how, statistically, a woman is safer with a trained grizzly bear versus a man, And when you were sharing that statistic with someone, their first comment to you was the bear's trained.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: And you were like dude, did you just hear yourself?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I was at work when I said that, which I think is important for people to know, because not that I want to shit on tradesmen, but that is where I find 99% of the most ignorant people in my life.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Trades is an absolute hotbed for dysfunction and homophobia and domestic violence.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It's very associated, especially out of town trades.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I also just want to clarify for anybody listening on TikTok.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think they understand what statistics are, because there was a lot of confusion and a lot of people saying if you reverse the men for women like men would be just as unsafe.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So every 1000 times a woman hangs out with a trained grizzly bear, versus every 1000 times a woman hangs out with a man, there will be more dead women when they hang out with men.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: That's what it means.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And if you reverse that, there would be less dead men when they hang out with other men, the grizzly bears.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Sorry, if they hang out with women, the grizzly bears would kill them more often than the women.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: And that's why it's impactful, because I think a lot of people don't understand statistics, which is unfortunate.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: But I think the deepest part about that video is that it's not uncommon at all.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: The people in my life who would say something like that and the comment section, i think, proved it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: All the men who, when they hear something about violence against women, their first instinct is to try and disprove it, discredit it, say I want to see the statistics.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Or oh, it is hard, i couldn't do it.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: That time They say I want to see the statistics, or I want to see where it says the study.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Or oh, so many people saying that's like saying all black people steal just because a lot of them steal in a certain neighborhood, like they will do anything to avoid taking responsibility for it.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And I think that's a big issue too is people have not been educated on how to separate their identity from something that's happening.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Because all I hear, when I hear that I've never once felt like, oh, all men, oh, that must mean me.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh shit, that means a lot of men.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I guess I should be a little more careful, i should be a little nicer, i should look out for this kind of thing or try to make women feel more comfortable around me.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I've never once felt like it was me and I honestly don't understand the mentality that tells them, when somebody talks about something bad, that a lot of men are doing an epidemic of violence, a generational epidemic of violence.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: That somehow means something about me And personally I think that if you do feel that it means something about you, then it does.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: It probably does, yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: There was another video that you said guys, i've cracked the code and you're laughing because you know exactly what I'm talking about And I love it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Like you were saying all right, straight guys, here's the thing.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: If you just make them feel the way a person should feel and do these certain things, then the openness that she's going to give you, the connection that you're all going to have And I thought that was very powerful and needs to be heard and discussed Do you have more female friends than male friends, and is that how you're getting this insight?
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, i will tell you I never make this distinction in my video.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I'm bisexual and I got that information from the metric shit ton of sex I've had with women over my life.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it all comes from personal experience.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And the thing about that video too the saddest part about that video it's not a social media skit, that's 100% real.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't get pretty until I was in my early twenties.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I think I hit my second round of puberty around then.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: That's when I could grow a beard and I had a jawline And I went back to school to be a tradesman and I was working at the local gay bar while I was in school And so I started cutting my hair and I started dressing a little nicer and people were like you're attractive And I was like I did not know that until now.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: That's exciting.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And I started seeing all my friends and different people talking to women in bars.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I was going there obviously not when I was working as well And I was like this is so weird.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I've met like this weird predatory mindset around like cornering them and trapping them And it obviously I always say as disclaimer nothing about men interacting with women is the same as men interacting with men.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: So if you're a straight person listening out there, none of this applies to men completely different ballgame.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's so predatory.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And I just kept doing what I'd always been doing, which was talking to them, complimenting them on their scarf, because they probably thought it was an important part of their outfit.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I think being bisexual helps, because you're focused on things that maybe straight men aren't.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And then I had this realization about a year later and I was like, why, like, why does this culture exist when this is all you have to do?
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And I realized, if I could boil it down to something that simple, i would not want the men I knew to have that information.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I really wouldn't, because, even as unfortunate as it is to say, even the men I was friends with, i wouldn't want to have that information because they just weren't unsafe.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: But they weren't safe, that's for sure.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And that's so sad that I don't feel enough of a connection to the community of men around me, that I feel that they should have an easier way to connect with women and have sex with them, because I know they would immediately misuse it.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And it's true, there's pickup artists out there who are teaching all this stuff, although, ironically, why are none of the pickup artists talking about emotional honesty and noticing when someone coordinates their nails with their pants?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: How stupid are they?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: They're talking about peacocking and nagging them.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: It's just not effective.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I do not know what's wrong with them.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, i've had an amazing time with women and, honestly, i'm playing a rigged game with women because the standards the bar, is so unbelievably low for the way I treat them that they're shocked and sometimes suspicious at the way I treat them.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: When I ask them about themselves or I check in with how they're feeling, they're like no one's ever done this before.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like that's so tragic.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: But here I am, yeah, and all this stuff about women being repressed in the bedroom it's not true, you guys.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: They just don't trust you.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Trust me, women are more depraved than I am most of the time.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: There is a cliche saying that I hate and I would love to know your take on it, and it's the boys will be boys.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I think that was created and handcrafted and injected into our culture by a community of rapists.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: It's so obviously enabling horrible, unforgivable behavior.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Right, It plays into the whole.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Men are Neanderthals.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Men have a passion for violence and you need to let them experience that.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It's just not true.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: There are healthy ways to experience violence Martial arts, literally.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So many other ways to feel that way and express that without hurting anyone, especially other men around you.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just, it's the ultimate phrase that enables men to do whatever they want.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: And also, it's not men will be men.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: It's boys will be boys.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: So we're telling this to people when they are children.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: We are drilling this into their heads when they are small children, saying it's OK that you did that behavior that made someone else cry or made them bleed or made them suffer, because you're a boy And I'm so dangerous.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i don't know what chance we think young men have when that's what they're hearing, when they're toddlers.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It makes my skin crawl every time I hear it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: We should take that one back.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: There are so many more fun applications for boys will be boys.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: They always do a lot of hilarious, harmless stuff.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: It does not need to be applied to all of this dark behavior.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: As we're getting close to an end.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: There was another video that was a little different than a lot of your content, and I had also just recently posted a video on the subject, and it is about God and the devil, and you had a video that was talking about what if God is the devil and devil of God?
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Do you remember which video I'm talking about?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that came off like a joke.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I genuinely believe that because, famously, stephen Fry is quoted as saying if he could meet God, he would ask him what the fuck he's doing with all these dead children and all this cancer and all the violence and poverty and starvation.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And even if God is the devil, he's not hiding it very well, because I was raised with a bit of religion and I went to youth groups and stuff And it's always God is a vengeful God.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: God is cruel.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: God will strike down his enemies and then also strike down sometimes his followers if they don't do exactly what he says, if they don't kill their kids in front of him, which he gaslights them about.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: There's so much disturbing stuff And it's driven the world to the crusades, for God's sake, like genocide, but we're like no, i think that was a good thing.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I think that was generally that was about peace and love And there's a larger conversation to be had about reclaiming the positive parts of religion.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: If you know a modern day philosopher named Alain de Baton, he does a great talk on modern religion and how we really need to join the other cultures that have separated all of the trash from the amazing things like the community and the preaching and the morality, but North America we've just kept it And I think that one really hit home with some people.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: It's not by far, not one of my videos that has the most views.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I think it has under 10,000.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: But I, as I said before, i got on social media to promote my only fans And the way I do that is not to get attention.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: The way I do that is talking about my values, so that I can filter who I'm letting into that space where things are a bit more intimate, right, because I don't want anybody who disagrees with a single one of my values to be over there.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that got the most conversions, like the highest percentage of conversions, i think, out of the 10,000 people who watched.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: The percentage was very high because religion is a big part of where all of this dysfunction, all of this hatred comes from.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: It's people weaponizing it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, i struggle with religion.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: A lot Christians have made me so angry at God And then I have to separate.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Is it God or is it their version of God?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Or where do I really stand with things?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And it's such a war and it's such a battle.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I was going to do everything I could to have a conversation with you about the sex positive attitude that you have, because we're human beings.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: We can be sexual as long as it's two consensual adults, preferably human, and so I love how you promote it and you're not shy of it, because we shouldn't be.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: But I feel as if, regardless of the title or relationship that you and your partner has, everyone walks away from it fulfilled and safe, and that is so important.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's something I feel very strongly about because that's one of the areas where I've experienced the most privilege.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Really, i have been able to explore my sexuality to a depth that I didn't realize not a lot of people have been able to, and I've seen the amount of positivity that's brought into my life, the amount of connection, the amount of laughter and joy and pleasure, and that's huge.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: That's changed my life absolutely.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: And, like I said before, until I got on the internet and started having sex on the internet, i did not realize that was not present for everyone And it wasn't happening.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And more than that, i didn't realize it was a point of such incredible pain to have that stifled and to have it disregarded and looked down upon.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Right, because there's gender plays into it so heavily.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Right, you can't do this if you're a boy.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: You can't do that if you're a girl, and it just took a couple of experiences of that to realize that's where I really wanted to do the majority of my work, because when it comes to trauma, i've got plenty of my own trauma a very violent upbringing, very unpleasant, lots of trauma, lots of upheaval, and me and my siblings all experienced that.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: But that has not held me back from as many things in life as it might for someone else, but it's also not a place where that's not a place where I want to be trying to positively affect others.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: It's like I said before what can I do?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think that I'm well equipped to work with people who have been victims of domestic violence or childhood sexual assault.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: That's not it for me.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: That's an area of my life I've not explored because it's painful for me, right.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: So I just look at the resources I do have and the energy I do have And I go.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to help people through that, as much as it may not look like it, because I don't know.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Have I told you what my only fans is?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Off the record.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I think that you've told me, but please share.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: It's the weirdest, dumbest thing I've ever done, because I wanted it to be a true expression of my own sexuality.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I wanted to basically lead by example.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I wanted to experience sexual freedom unapologetically and then invite others into the space to do the same and to be able to share with me and hopefully, down the road, be able to connect with other people who might be going through the same things.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Just being sexual on the internet is only a piece of it.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: But what it is?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I write erotic stories and then I narrate those stories and then I have tiny costumes for my penis and I dress him up as the main character of the story and I act out the seduction scenes.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: And it's ridiculous and it's so funny.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: And whenever I have people here, they're helping me or collaborating.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: The first time we recorded I thought oh, we'll use the audio.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: There'll be some heavy breathing and some sexy noises.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: It's just laughter And that's just a really accurate representation of my sexuality.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: It's whimsical, it's exciting, it has to do with other people, it brings us together and there's pleasure involved, and that is the experience that I want to have and also bring to other people, because I told you that story about the guy who sent me photos of him wearing women's underwear and it was monumental for him And I thought I've never had that.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: No one has ever told me my sexuality is not acceptable Not once.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: And so that's where I want to dive in right, because if sexuality it's a massive part of who we are and how we experience the world and how we experience love and connection, and if that part of us isn't healed, that's not even a part we can talk about.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: You might be able to say to your friend yeah, my dad used to hit me when I was little.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: But you can't say to your friend I like to get pegged because all of a sudden now you're isolated, you're rejected from your friend group And yeah, there's so much work to be done there, and especially around sex workers themselves and uplifting them because, oh, things are not going well for non-privileged sex workers.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: It's just a mess.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I know I feel we all have the idea of sex.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: All wrong.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: If a woman is sex positive, she's called a slut or a whore.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: If a guy goes out and says I've been to chicks this week, we're half-fab and we're getting shots and drinking beers about it.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: You're so right.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Also, quote unquote straight men are the source of so much violence and so much hate because they are the same ones getting off with another man and then just leaning right into the homophobia the next day because they hate themselves right?
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: It's tragic because those are the young men that we've created, and you're right.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: If I go out and have sex with a bunch of people men or women people are like oh, that's fucking legendary, that's amazing, and you just can't do it if you're anything other than a straight man.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: There's so much stigma attached to it And it's so fucked up because that's also.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: This is related to porn, but not sex.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: The porn industry creates more revenue than Hollywood.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that till last week.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: We are all thinking about talking about buying sex, and that's people who buy sex, not people who get it for free on Pornhub.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Those are people who are buying it.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: We as a society are just covered in sex, but we're constantly denying it And we have things like just tragic things.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know when the last time is that it was used, but the gay panic defense still existed not that long ago.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: In some states it still does.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, That is tragic.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: That is one of the things that was first told to me and my family when before we actually started going to court is don't be surprised if he pulls, which he tried to do, It's horrifying.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: That's unbelievable.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: That still happens these days.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, man.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like I could sit and talk to you all day long.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited that we've come across each other.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: There's so many reasons for people to listen to you.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Like you're funny, you're good looking, you have the best voice.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: When I started podcasting, i was like no one's going to want to hear me talk.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Luckily I was a little bit wrong, but I'm like God if I had your voice.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like No, i love your voice.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I love your voice.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: This is unedited for everyone listening.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: It sounds amazing unedited.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, thanks, man.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Please tell everybody where we can find you.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You can find me on.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I go by my porn name everywhere.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: My name is Jacob, obviously, but I go by Bo Delacroix on TikTok, on Instagram.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Those are pretty much the only social platforms I've on, only fans, obviously.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fat Life, if you want to find me there, great.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'm actually the only social platforms I'm on, but I'm keeping it small and I don't want to spread myself too thin, because I want to focus on each platform I'm on and be able to actually engage with people.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, twitter as well.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm on Twitter.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to talking to you again and I can't wait to see the next video.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i'm so excited to hear about your journey starting this podcast and where it's going to go, because I think it's going to be quite something.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Bye.