Latest / Really Renée / Ep.2 - You're a Designer, Not a Decorator — And It Matters

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Ep.2 - You're a Designer, Not a Decorator — And It Matters · Really Renée

• Sam Struck: I think that this is like a good segue, right? Because this is bullshit we all have to deal with. But I do think that if you are heavily immersed into the design world, design detailing, kind of the the more heavy lift work that goes beyond a typical decorator, this is just stuff that you have to deal with. This is just real life. Weird dreamers. Don't care what other people say. We're dreamers. All right, welcome back to Really Renee, the podcast for interior designers. And today we're gonna be talking about ⁓ the difference between decorator and designer, what the kind of qualifications are behind that, why it matters, etc., etc. Again, hot takes might be controversial. As a preliminary side note, I am a little bit sassy this week. It has been extra rot with just like bullshit, and we can get into that in a minute, but ⁓ first I wanted to welcome those of you that haven't tuned in before. My name is Samantha Struck. I'm your host. I'm the owner of Studio Renee, the interior design firm in Little Hood River, Oregon. Thanks for tuning in. ⁓ I want to just like dive into the realities of this week for a second. I literally almost fired a client. Actually, side note, I asked to be fired by the client, ⁓ to which he did not. Which is kind of a bummer, honestly, because I was ready for it. but as a side note, I just don't think anyone should have to take like this mindset of the customer's always right. That is where this client's mind was at. ⁓ there's like no accountability on their end. And honestly, I just don't subscribe to this notion. So ⁓ I was like, please, if you think we are so shitty, just fire us. It's good. And then they like settled down. So all that to say, it's just been a rough week, guys. Like I at Mercury's in retrograde. ⁓ life is just lifing. And yeah, it's been it's felt like it's unnecessarily difficult. Aside from that, I had a vendor on the procurement side. I had a vendor order eight thousand dollars worth of custom tile from Italy without our like explicit approval. So ⁓ I sent an email back and was like, hey, the client approved this sample. Can I get a quote and an estimated lead time? And then we'll take it from there. ⁓ they converted that email as a sample approval into like a full-fledged order and ordered it with no deposit, no contract. And ⁓ yeah, I just got a call today that a pallet was trying to be delivered. So I had to refuse the palette. I had to reach out to the vendor who I love dearly. They're an incredible vendor. We love working with them. but I had to like go back through my records, see what I said, see where I could have where it could have gotten lost in translation, and then reach out. So it's been a week of just like troubleshooting, bullshit, one thing after the other. You guys all know what that's like. ⁓ it's been one of those weeks where it's like, I don't know if I love this right this second, and that's okay. So ⁓ as a side note, we have a rage dartboard. And ⁓ I think it's a week that we like use it. So for those of you that don't know, I've mentioned it before, but we do have a dartboard down in our warehouse where I have been known to print out emails, whatever, collateral, and post it on there, and then we just like rage dart throw. So Very cathartic. Highly recommend that you have the thing that like helps you decompress from clients that need it. but yeah, so, anyways, let's dive into the difference between decorator and designer. I think that this is like a good segue, right? Because this is bullshit we all have to deal with. But I do think that if you are heavily immersed into the design world, design detailing, kind of the the more heavy lift work. That goes beyond a typical decorator. This is the stuff that you have to deal with. This is just real life. So let's start with like what is a decorator and what is a designer. And let's just talk about like maybe what the industry defines those two things as, and then ⁓ kind of go from that to like maybe my hot takes, what what my perception is or feelings about it, opinions are, whatever. so in general I would say that a designer is somebody that typically, not always, typically has an education background in design and provides more services than just soft goods, paint consults, and material selections. ⁓ those services typically include drawings, AutoCAD, detailing, Revit. etc. and then material spec management. So it's, you know, the bible of what's going in a project. So I would say I would define, and the community at large defines decorators as those that are more situated in soft goods, ⁓ window furnishings, ⁓ paint color consults, maybe some material selections, as in like this is the design for the kitchen. What materials should I put in there? ⁓ Could be home staging, things like that. And then designers, like I said, typically provide a deeper level of technical service. ⁓ the muddy, the the waters are muddy, definitely in this sphere. ⁓ as you know, well, maybe you don't know. ⁓ credentialing is required in several states. That credentialing is listed as the NCIDQ. So those states that require that. If you do not have your NCIDQ, then you would be known as a decorator. If you do have your NCIDQ, then you can be called a designer. So similar in fashion to saying you're an architect or not, although, you know, all architects have to have their credential and their ⁓ AIA before they can say, I'm a licensed architect. So ⁓ Oregon is not a state that requires the NCIDQ. So you do get people that say they do interior design, but they don't. They are situated more on the decorator side. ⁓ I don't think there's anything wrong with being, you know, situated on the soft goods and furnishing side. I think there's a real talent and skill in that. However, I I do think that differentiation is good. And I do, I don't like that the we all get lumped into the same category. So that being said, I don't think that the NCIDQ or credentialing is also like the thing that proves your legitimacy as a designer. And I don't think that it's it should be required. I don't know what the answer is, but ⁓ I went to college for interior design. I have a Bachelor of Science from Oregon State University, and I set a professional goal to have the NCIDQ and pass it. And mostly those were for myself personally. I am a first-generation college student in my immediate family, so I just really wanted to go to college based on my family of origin and it just being a goal. And then I wanted to get my NCIDQ for similar reasons. It's not required in my state, but I wanted to be able to have that credential and hold it and s and show that I did have the credentialing for it. ⁓ I, you know, 10 years removed from taking that exam, I I don't think it's required. I don't think it's necessary. I don't think it's necessary to go to college even. I mean, we're frankly at that place. And if I'm gonna be honest about my education, it was a great experience and the foundational skills were there. However, I left college with little to no construction awareness, little to no job site awareness, and little to no true business understanding around how businesses worked. ⁓ even though I had a business minor on top of my degree. So I just don't think you need a degree to be successful in this sphere. Obviously, case in point are some of the most well known designers that are self-taught. ⁓ I think a lot of that comes from just understanding business and leveraging business skills. So I don't want to sit here and say everyone should go to college for design. I don't think that's the path. ⁓ and and to be honest, like when I was going to college, the art institutes were like the place for design and art and whatnot. And you it was like $100,000 a year, which as a first gen college student, I definitely couldn't afford it. But also in hindsight, I'm so glad that I didn't because ⁓ I just think that would be a waste. I think you can learn so much about what we do just by getting out in the field. And actually, I had a professor that when I graduated with my Bachelor of Science, I asked her, like, hey, should I go on to get a master's? Like, would that benefit me professionally? And her answer, I was shocked, but it never left me. Her answer was no, you should get out, get a job, and get in the field because you're gonna learn more. So ⁓ thank you, Carol, for that information. I hope wherever you are in the sky that you are just knowing that you have imparted so much knowledge to us Oregon State grads. So thank you so much. ⁓ but all that to say, I have a degree. I graduated, I got my NCIDQ. ⁓ so does that make me a professional? I would argue that the answer is no. So I have ⁓ an acute awareness over the competitors in our area, what's going on with them, what you know, how how they operate. ⁓ and I by competitors I don't just mean local, I mean like at large, Portland here, et cetera. And I think that this industry is very ego driven. I think that designers are very ego driven, architects are very ego driven, and I think that there is this assumption that we are difficult, that is sometimes hard to encourage a client or a general contractor to like overcome. So all that to say. I'm not saying all of us are like that. I'm just saying the industry is known that way. We're known as being like pissy and difficult. So I truly think that what distinguishes a designer from a professional designer is one's ability to problem solve without emotion and to separate out your ego and to be willing to sit in the mud, in the trenches, and figure shit out when it gets difficult. And then also handle it with grace integrity. And in a way that like brings everyone together. That is the mark of a true professional to me. So I think that there's a lot of non professionals. I think that I have seen a tremendous amount of designers that throw like little hissy bitch fits and you know, walk around very pretentious, very ego driven. And that is not a professional, in my opinion. ⁓ if you have to be rude in order to run your business, that's not professional. and I just think that to be a professional, you have to walk with integrity. You have to walk with poise. So ⁓ if you want to be perceived as a professional in this world, you have to be kind, you have to be willing to be accountable when things go wrong, you have to be willing to address them and you have to be able to problem solve without it becoming like a big emotional mess. People don't want it. The whole point of hiring a designer is to solve. problems to get a project to the end efficiently and easily and create this beautiful environment. So if the process is such that you can't step into problem solving and you can't do it with poise and composure, then I don't think that that's professional. But that's just me. So then we get into like, okay, that's that's Sam's definition of professional. But like what is What are the credentials? Are they required? Should we do them? Should we not do them? Et cetera, et cetera. also as a side, I was the IIDA chapter president at Oregon State. and then have been a long-term member of IIDA before they disbanded in Oregon. So ⁓ for those of you that don't know, there's like kind of four main interior design groups or societies nationally known. There's the IIDA International Interior Design Association. It tends to be more commercial-driven design. So hospitality, healthcare, things like that. You see a lot more people that do commercial interiors in that group. There's ASID, which is the American Society of Interior Designers. It tends to be more residentially focused. Then you have IDS, which is the Interior Design Society. And that society tends to be more geared towards soft goods and furnishing, so you get a lot of decorators in there. And then you have the NKBA, National Kitchen and Bath Association. ⁓ all of those are credentials. some of them required continued education, some of them are just yearly memberships that have fees, and then some of them require tests. So, for example, you can join the NKBA. But if you want to be listed as like a master kitchen and bath designer, you have to test for that. Those are like things you have to sit in and do. ⁓ so those are like the the groups you can be in. And then again, the NCIDQ National Council for Interior Design Qualifications is the council for like credentialing behind your name. So I would say the NCIDQ is the golden standard for like credential, professional credential. The rest of them are more like societies or groups that you can join that have community and you get to add things after your name, letters after your name, but ⁓ not necessarily credentialed in the same way as an NCIDQ designer. So do these things matter? ⁓ I've been a part of many of them. Like I said, I was a member of IIDA for many years before they disbanded, in which case it didn't make sense to keep joining ⁓ the $500 a year or whatever it was when there's no actual local chapter. ⁓ ASID I think is good. I I like I said, I they are geared more towards residential. ⁓ there's kind of I think the like the standards for who's in there has changed over time. So there's been like kind of a ⁓ gap or ⁓ overlap in some of the people that are in I IDS and ASID and whatnot. And I don't know. I've joined them all intermittently to see like what people do and react. I really have like added all the letters after my name. ⁓ I I still keep the NCID Q after my name because if people are curious, that's that is considered like the most quote professional. And I think it's the one that I'd rather people look up and see what it's about. but I don't know. Nobody's ever been like, cool, what are all those letters and numbers? Like nobody cares. So ⁓ oddly enough, I think that those things don't move the needle in terms of getting clients and being perceived as more professional. What I do think that they help with is community, ⁓ connections, networking, getting can connected to like other vendors, other companies, things like that. So it's more like camaraderie in the industry. So if that's what you're looking for, they're great for that. All of them are great. They just have different kind of, I don't know, flavors. So think about that in that regard. But I certainly don't think it's worth it from a this will help me get new clients standpoint. There's never been a client that I've gotten That is like, I came to you because you have the NCIDQ. granted, we mostly do residential and the NCIDQ is geared towards commercial. So it really, it's like literally that test is like fire life safety questions. There's no aesthetic space questions at all. It's like if you have occupancy of 5,000 people in this theater and you need to meet egress requirements for widths of hallways, like what what is the minimum hallway width that's required? It's stuff like that. So No residential client gives a shit about that at all. It just doesn't. So they just don't. ⁓ one of the biggest factors that actually has gone into like how clients perceive my professionalism is my my aesthetics, which sounds silly. I'm chuckling at it because I just think it's silly. And I don't really know how to ⁓ Process it because ⁓ I think it's silly. So a great example of this is when my firstborn was probably three or four, so that would have been six, seven years ago, six, seven. I'm so addicted to that because of my son. That is absolutely ridiculous. ⁓ anyways, when he was three or four several years ago. I had my hair hot pink. I really love changing my hair. I'm the daughter of a hairdresser. I love being able to change the identity of my hair. I view it as super temporary. but when my hair was pink, I had more leads. Ask for my portfolio, ask what my credentials were, ask where I went to college than I did when my hair is blonde or just like a natural hair color. I think if I were in Portland, that would be less of a discussion. But because our market in Hood River is ⁓ mostly retirees, so like fifty plus, I say fifty, even though that sounds young, because it's a lot of affluent young ⁓ retirees. So fifty plus affluent, fiscally conservative, but usually politically social, ⁓ social justice driven. So more. liberal in terms of ideology, fiscally conservative, maybe that would fall under like mostly independents then, because they tend to vote in the middle. ⁓ But conservative enough that they find colored hair to be a point of discussion versus, for example, my arm of tattoos. This is like permanent and for sure More socially acceptable in our community than colored hair. So it's such an interesting ⁓ thing to think about how people perceive you. But, and I think it's important to think about like how do you want to be perceived? How much defending of your background, your expertise, any of that do you want to be defending? And how much do you want to stand behind your personal expression and identity? So for me, I really did not like that they asked those questions more and more. It actually pissed me off and made me not want to work with them. and then it even more pissed me off that it was about my hair when I tested this theory out. So I decided not to have colored hair. And like there are times where I'm like, ⁓ I'd love to go back to pink, but I think that there's other ways to like Play up your self-expression, right? So I just decided to get more comfortable dressing in like funkier clothes or figuring out what the middle ground is for how I want to present myself, have freedom of expression, knowing that clients will ask about my professionalism based on how I dress and present myself. So sucks, kind of shitty. I wish more people would move to Hood River with colored hair. Please do that so that we could change this dialogue. But it's just the reality. So it's one of those things where it's like, do you want to fight reality? How much do you want to fight it? And how much do you just want people to sign on the dotted line? So for me, I wanted people to sign on the dotted line. If my hair is the thing that keeps them from signing on the dotted line, fuck it. I'm just gonna change my hair to a normal color. So we just went normal, although I did, you know, really strive for like mom talk mermaid hair. So that's where we're at. Right now, but still edgy with the tattoos. So think about that. I think that the idea of professionalism in terms of what it means, you know, as a professional, but then also how people perceive ⁓ professionalism will vary based on each and every community pocket and culture. So definitely think about it. ⁓ and then, you know, when we talk more too about like how do we Elevate professionalism in the industry in general, and how do we elevate professionalism in the field? You have to have field knowledge. I think that if you want to be perceived as a professional with the subs, with a general contractor, even with your client, et cetera, et cetera, you have to be able to understand and have construction competency and fluency in the field. You have to understand the scope. You have to understand how to value engineer things, fix things. ⁓ you have to be able to walk a job site at framing and look at how the framing is and be like, ⁓ shit, if we keep going down this track, for sure this is gonna look really funky. We have to fix this, this, and this. And so ⁓ you really need to have a significant amount of construction fluency. I think that if you don't, so many of the design decisions or selection decisions can That get made in the field on behalf of the general contractor making executive decisions about things end up coming to hang on you, anyways. Because if you know you get to the finishes and a client's like, ⁓ I didn't know that there was gonna be this like three-inch jog in the wall right here. So this looks weird because it's at finish that. kind of usually rests on you in terms of the client's disappointment, regardless of whether or not it was you that decided that. So ⁓ it's one of those things where if you can catch a project's ⁓ design details or like weird things that are happening, or when things are not on center at roughen or lights are being placed in incorrect locations and you can help catch that. All of that stuff is like money. It is like gold to a client. And you will have their loyalty forever if you have construction fluency. It also ⁓ means that you can troubleshoot and problem problem solve. For example, I was in the field yesterday on a job site meeting with the general contractor, the structural engineer, and our team. We're doing a large scale remodel, full gut, top to bottom of pretty much the entire structure with an addition that's being added on. And one of the things now that it's opened up, the general contractor had concerns over how invasive it was going to be. What we're trying to do is we're trying to take out a post that has two glue lamps on it that separates the kitchen and dining room from the or sorry, kitchen and living room from the dining room. And the clients want that post gone. There's a ceiling change at that ⁓ post location. So it's a little bit complicated, but the goal is. open it up from exterior wall to exterior wall. So now that we've demoed, the general contractor had concerns over how invasive it was going to be to put the glue lamb in that we needed to. So this glue lamb honestly is 24 inches tall. It's very tall. ⁓ but the joists that are running in between the first and second floor are 12 inches tall. So if you want that beam flush with the ceiling, you have to cut up an extra 12 inches if that makes sense. And when we opened it all up, there was extra sheeting, ⁓ plywood sheeting and strapping, hurricane strapping and structural components that we didn't see on the original plans and we didn't anticipate them being there and we couldn't know about them until the drywall was taken off. So the contractor called me. I think this is gonna be an an incredible expense. And so what can we do? And so I called the engineer, said, let's go out there, let's talk about it. If you are a professional designer, you need to be able to do this. You need to sit in this conversation and be able to troubleshoot and understand enough about framing and structure and the goal of what you're trying to do that you can participate in this conversation and dialogue, not just sit take a passive backseat and are like, ⁓ okay, I guess we'll just do this. Like no, the goal is like, okay, what are our options? Can we switch to a steel beam so that's less invasive? What does it look like to, you know, do sister two beams together instead of, you know, one tall beam? Is that possible? Like, there's no stupid questions. I think you have to get over this idea that we have to know everything. It's the point of the engineer to know it. But we can ask the questions, even if they sound dumb. I all the time I'm like, okay, Jad, like Is it possible to do this? And and is and could we do it this way? And if we did it this way, we could do this. And like if we, you know, we could do a box beam and like cover it up this way. What do you think about that? How invasive is that as a general contractor? Like, you have to be able to have these conversations. And the more you can have these conversations and the more you can step into that, the more client control you maintain, the more professionalism you maintain, and the more control over the whole project you maintain. All of those things are win-win win win all day, every day. So ⁓ just think about that. And so it's it's for me, it's like less about decorator, designer, professional, not professional. It is do you have competency in the field? And if you do, what does that look like? And if you don't, how do you get that? And so ⁓ we're gonna do an entire Episode. It's gonna be con it's gonna be episode 14, and it's on just construction fluency, what it means to be fluent in construction. ⁓ the number of general contractors that have met with us and have been like, we just haven't worked with designers that understand these things like you. I mean, again, back to like what we are known for. We are known for doing detailing and drafting, but we are also known for drawing lines on paper that actually take a ton of shit to work out in the field that doesn't doesn't have any actual awareness of how it gets put together. It's one thing to like draw a bookcase like this behind me on an elevation and be like, this is the goal. But if you haven't thought through like how do those pieces come together, how are like is are they bit are these shelves being biscuit jointed into this panel here in order to keep it from having, you know, shelf clips and holes drilled that whole way? Is that Crazy? Is it not crazy? If you don't have this awareness over how things get put together, it's gonna make your job really difficult. It's gonna make your contractor very frustrated. And there's gonna be times, frankly, where you look stupid because a client will catch that you just did lines on paper, but now you're having to work out all the details of how it's actually coming together. So ⁓ just think about that. I don't know if this resonates with you. I don't know if it's helpful, but. ⁓ one of the things that we really want to help in terms of bringing awareness and knowledge to the table is this idea of construction fluency and how it affects professionalism and how we are received as designers in the field. So ⁓ I don't know. That's like my two cents for today. It's it's like I said, I'm feeling like spicy because it's just been one of those like shitty weeks of just dealing with people and we love what we do, but also. We all had those weeks where we're just like, okay, nothing is going right. This is not fun anymore. So ⁓ if you're there, I'm there with you. Hang in there. We're all getting through it together. ⁓ if this episode was helpful to you, please like take a minute and like, share, subscribe, and feel like feel free and please sign up for our newsletter. We're gonna be sending out more freebies, tips, tricks, how to stay in the loop for these things and like how I manage to take the knowledge in the field and really like lean into that construction fluency because I can talk about it all day every day. So ⁓ thank you guys for listening. Appreciate it. Feel free to send me any DM message. I read them all and leave a comment about what you found most helpful. Thank you. We're dreamers. Don't care what other people say. We live it like this could be a final day. We're dreamers.