Latest / The Christian Homemaking Podcast: Simply Convivial with Mystie Winckler / How a Godly Wife Actually Changes Her Marriage — Tilly Dillehay on Wife School

Transcript

How a Godly Wife Actually Changes Her Marriage — Tilly Dillehay on Wife School · The Christian Homemaking Podcast: Simply Convivial with Mystie Winckler

0:00
Speaker: welcome to the Christian homemaking podcast, Simply Convivial.
0:04
I'm Misty Winkler, homemaker, homeschool mom of five, grandma, and author of
0:08
the book Home is for Hospitality: Why Your Home and Homemaking Matter.
0:14
Convivial means living life together with joy, and that's the
0:18
kind of home atmosphere that we want to create as Christian moms.
0:23
And I'm excited today to be joined again by Tilly Dillehay.
0:28
Tilly has written several books for women, including My Dear Hemlock, which we've
0:33
talked about on this podcast before.
0:35
She writes for Desiring God and The Gospel Coalition, and is
0:41
co-host of the podcast Home Fires.
0:44
She's a pastor's wife, homeschools her four children in a small town in
0:48
the tiniest county in Tennessee, with 21 chickens and a growing garden.
0:54
So, thank you so much for joining me today, Tilly.
0:58
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Misty.
1:01
Speaker: Well, recently, uh, it came to my attention that The Guardian,
1:07
which is a UK-based, you know, liberal news outlet, uh- Mm-hmm â¦ they
1:15
pic- I don't know, they're following you on Instagram or something.
1:19
They had a whole article, uh, that the, um- subtitle of the article
1:26
just really made me laugh out loud.
1:28
It said, uh, they were ver- very concerned, uh, The, the subtitle was,
1:35
"A cottage industry of women are selling courses aligned with a conservative
1:41
movement that claims feminism is the source of women's discontent."
1:47
I'm like-
1:47
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm
1:48
â¦ Speaker: horrors.
1:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:50
No.
1:52
Speaker: So, uh, what was horrifying them is your new Wife School course, which
2:00
you, um- Yes â¦ I don't know how manyâ¦
2:02
I've heardâ¦
2:03
I have a friend who took it and loved it.
2:05
Okay.
2:05
And, um,
2:07
Speaker 2: Yeah
2:08
â¦ Speaker: the, you know, patriarchy, all the scary words they were pulling out.
2:13
Mm-hmm.
2:13
And I would just love to hear kinda the backstory of, uh,
2:18
Wife School, um, and- Yeah
2:21
what you've noticed as you've been teaching this.
2:24
Speaker 2: Yes.
2:25
Yeah, so, um, I've been, I've been thinking and, and podcasting a little
2:31
bit about marriage stuff for maybe a year and a h- a year and several months.
2:36
I think me and Abigail were talking about it on Homefires
2:39
some last spring, I remember.
2:41
And I was reading some books that were really helpful to me, some, a
2:44
secular b- a few secular books actually that I really liked, and, um, and
2:50
some just Christian classics, um, An Excellent Wife by Martha Peace.
2:55
And I, I mean, there's, there's so many great books to read.
2:58
But I was just really struck in that season reading, um, this book
3:03
called The Empowered Wife, which is a completely, yeah, which- I've read it.
3:06
Mm-hmm â¦ I think a lot of people have heard of, yeah, have beenâ¦
3:08
And I think it's shocking when you're reading that book to just, to feel
3:13
the, the biblical principles kind of underneath what she's saying withoutâ¦
3:20
It, it almost feels like she's hit on a lot of solutions without knowing
3:24
the why of any of them or, or at least maybe without acknowledging the why.
3:28
It mayâ¦
3:28
I don't, I don't actually know her background.
3:30
But, but there are definitely some things in that book that are extremely
3:32
an- I would say anti-Christian, um, or, or anti like the biblical model.
3:38
Some of the things for, for sure about, um, she has no, she has
3:41
no category for like submission at all- Right â¦ in the book.
3:44
But what's amazing is that she arrives at a, some specifics
3:50
about what respect looks like-
3:52
Speaker 3: Yes
3:52
â¦ Speaker 2: and how it feels for men to be spoken to in certain ways.
3:57
Um, like she just really drills down and is extremely direct and
4:01
practical, um, about why- It's in your interest to speak and to operate a
4:08
certain way inside of the marriage.
4:09
And a lot of it, she, she, she tends to take it in this just kind of try
4:13
not to try to manage him, and you'll get way better results where, you know.
4:17
And she's obviously not carrying it all the way to the point of, hey, maybe he
4:21
should be managing your home or, you know, he should be the overseer of, of this,
4:25
um, family that you're blending together.
4:27
She also, I don't think she has kids, so a lot of the examples in the book
4:30
are like when you can't decide where to go out to eat tonight because
4:34
you're obviously, you're going out to eat five or six nights a week.
4:38
Um, how do you choose a restaurant?
4:40
Like, it's very low stakes.
4:41
It feel, it feels very low stakes as you're reading.
4:44
Um, not a lot of examples to do with parenting, which I think is one of the
4:48
most challenging things about marriage is parenting in this, and which is
4:51
such a high stakes thing to do that I feel like that's where a lot of the
4:55
pressure points, at least in my, among my friends, it, you know, that would be
4:59
where the real pressure points arise.
5:01
So anyway, so that was happening last spring.
5:03
Um, I was doing all these interviews for Hemlock, and I get called to go do an
5:08
interview on Alex Clark's podcast, and I show up thinking it's just kind of another
5:14
Hemlock interview, and she, she comes up to me before the interview and hugs me and
5:19
says, "I read this article that you wrote for Desiring God on the contentious wife."
5:25
And it may have been a couple of articles for Desiring God, but
5:27
it was on the contentious wife kind of prototype in Proverbs.
5:31
And she said, "I just had a, a breakup and I have been told I might
5:35
be this sort of prototype or I might kinda, you know, skew this way."
5:39
That's why you're here.
5:40
That's what we're gonna be talking about today.
5:42
So I, I had to completely reset my expectations for what kind of
5:47
conversation we were about to have, and then it, and then it, it ended up
5:51
being c- more, even more wife-heavy than I even thought it would be.
5:54
So, um, so that was an enjoyable interview and one that it was r- it
5:59
was, uh, you know, she couldn't have known that it was right where my mind
6:02
had been kind of for the last several months, but the Lord knew, I guess.
6:05
Um, but coming out of that interview, because it was a different group
6:11
of people than the, the group I'm usually writing for or, or talking to,
6:17
I get kind of inundated with emails and messages, um, some on Instagram,
6:21
which I'm not even on at this time.
6:24
But I, I just have this sort of overwhelming feeling of this n-
6:29
this group of women out there who are just extremely hungry for this,
6:35
for practical, simple instruction in how to be a respectful wife.
6:40
And, and to be demon- and, and they want to see it demonstrated that it's
6:45
biblical and that it is in your interest as a wife, like this will actually
6:50
make your life easier, not harder.
6:52
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
6:53
Speaker 2: And, um, and it was just a lot of like practical
6:56
questions that I was getting, and I just, I had this really overâ¦
7:00
It was an overwhelming feeling of like, I want to answer your emails, I want
7:05
to respond to you, but I'm not there yet, and I'm certainly not thereâ¦
7:09
I'm not, I'm not at the point of being ready to write a book about this stuff.
7:12
So my sister, I have a sister who teaches vocals like on Music Row.
7:20
She has a, she has a studio on Music Row and, and she has employees who
7:23
teach, um, like commercial voice.
7:27
And she, she's been very knowledgeable in social media for many years.
7:32
She knows all about that stuff, and she has a, she has a video
7:35
course probably- the sixth or seventh video course that she's had.
7:39
So I reach out to her and she sh- she sends me a course to take
7:43
on making video courses, and it turns out it's very simple to do.
7:46
So I write up, I y- I take my notes from where I'd sat and done some of
7:51
this material with ladies in my church, um, kinda recently, and I, I grab
7:56
my notes together and put together a six-week kinda outline and record, um,
8:02
a video course using the, using the information my sister helped me out with.
8:06
And it's, it's pretty easy.
8:07
It takes a couple of days, and then I'm able to put it out and have it.
8:11
And then I, I'm, from, from here on out it's, it's just there.
8:14
It's available.
8:15
It's out there.
8:16
Um, and I proceed then to figure out what the heck is happening on
8:22
Instagram and posting as I'm able, you know, on Instagram about marriage
8:27
specifically, um, because I realized this, this definitely is a group of
8:32
people and this is where they are, and this is how they learn, you know?
8:35
Mm-hmm.
8:36
So, um, so kind of towing into that.
8:39
And I'm pretty sure, I don't, I don't know about The Guardian article exactly,
8:43
but I suspect that the reason that they kinda came after me was that, um, I had
8:50
a share from one of the daughters from the, the 19 Kids and Counting show.
8:56
I don't know if you're- Oh, yeah
8:56
familiar with that show.
8:58
So one of the daughters, Jessa, um, now Seewald, she, her husband is now a
9:03
reformed Baptist pastor, so we had conne- connected over a, a, um, conference
9:09
that both of our husbands were gonna be speaking at, and she very kindly took a
9:13
group of ladies in her church through Wife School and shared about it on Instagram.
9:17
And I think sh- you know, it's millions and millions of followers
9:20
that she has just because of this show.
9:21
So but also, and she explained this to me later, um, you know, a lot of her
9:26
followers are there because they hate, they love to hate on Duggars, you know?
9:32
And, and a lot- Mm-hmm â¦ of followers are there because
9:34
they're other like-minded moms, you know, homeschooling moms.
9:37
So- I never got a lot.
9:40
I expected a lot more negative flak on Instagram for what I
9:43
was saying right when I began.
9:45
I just assumed there would be more, and there wasn't a lot until, until
9:48
after her share, and that's when I started to get some of the uglies.
9:51
So, um, so you know, it just, it just changed, it changed the, the tone a
9:58
little bit of how the comments sound on Instagram, but it's not a big deal.
10:02
So then the, the Guardian lady, she emails me and says, "I'm
10:06
doing an article on several people who have courses like yours."
10:11
Um, and-
10:12
Speaker: I think yours was the only one she mentioned.
10:14
Speaker 2: And there were two.
10:15
There was another lady who I think I was familiar with.
10:18
But it is true, I, in the end, I had no idea that this article would be
10:25
so zoomed in on what I was doing.
10:27
So, um, yeah, she really made it sound like I've got all these people
10:32
that I'm gonna be writing about.
10:34
Um, but I did do a written interview with her, and I was adv- I was
10:38
advised, um, and kinda helped with that process by the guys over at Canon
10:43
who've been, who've been helpful.
10:44
Um, and theâ¦
10:48
Yeah, the, the resulting article was pretty comical, and especially as, as
10:53
held up to the, the material in our, in our interview and the quotes that I gave
10:58
her, and then the way, the way that those quotes were pulled and used was amazing.
11:03
I mean, I've never had an experience like it, so it was
11:05
quite a learning thing for me.
11:08
Um, yeah.
11:09
Maybe you have, maybe you've had that kind of experience of just being so
11:12
deliberately misunderstood when you've really, really made an effort to, to
11:18
look somebody in the eye and say, "This is what I mean," and for them to say, "I
11:23
don't want to understand what you mean."
11:25
Speaker: Right.
11:25
It is a very-
11:25
Speaker 2: Here's what I want you to mean â¦ intentional.
11:28
Speaker: Right.
11:28
Yeah.
11:28
Here's what I want to tell the world that you mean.
11:30
Speaker 2: That's right.
11:31
That's right.
11:32
Yeah.
11:33
So-
11:33
Speaker: Yeah â¦ it was instructive One quote there from it says, "But after
11:37
settling into her obedient place at home, Dillehay said that she's noticed a sâ¦"
11:42
This is the quotes, "A sweetness felt by both her husband and her children.
11:47
Happiness coming at the price of shutting up and following orders."
11:51
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
11:53
She's gottenâ¦
11:54
She's, she's painted a, a perfect portrait of my life.
11:57
It's amazing.
11:59
How is she able to capture what life is like so well?
12:05
Only, only by really caring.
12:07
Speaker: Right.
12:08
Right.
12:08
Yeah.
12:08
Because that's the only definition of patriarchy that they will
12:12
allow- That's right â¦ it to mean.
12:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:15
Speaker: And so- Yeah â¦ and you know, it is just toâ¦
12:20
I mean, to feed that, um, that scare tactic
12:27
Speaker 2: yeah.
12:27
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's interesting and instructive, I think, to see what
12:34
is the scary, what is the scariness in here- Mm-hmm â¦ for, like, for someone
12:36
like this, for this single, single woman, um, who's, who's a writer and, and for
12:42
the other women on staff who, um, you know, help with an article like this, you
12:49
know, what, what is it that for them is the, the absolute worst-case scenario?
12:53
And as they cannot imagine deliberate and chosen, um, service, like they can't
13:04
imagine a life that was deliberately chosen that involves submission of any
13:09
kind to anyone, to God or anyone else, um, and cannot imagine a life of pouring
13:16
yourself out and, and, um, serving others even at, even at some personal cost.
13:22
They can't imagine the joy that might be on the other side of that.
13:25
And so the only bucket they can put that in in their mind is, um- I guess the
13:34
bucket of loss and of- And of oppression â¦ silencing and of oppression.
13:38
Yeah.
13:38
And like a person couldn't possibly have chosen
13:39
this with her eyes wide open and continued to choose it when, yes, of
13:45
course other options are out there.
13:47
Like, yes, I could walk away from my family.
13:50
Anyâ¦
13:50
Like this is America with no-fault divorce and, you know, like there,
13:55
there are options everywhere, of course.
13:57
So why would a woman willfully choose the life that I have unless she's
14:03
somehow been brainwashed or, um, oppressed, I guess, on some level?
14:08
So it's just, like that's, that's the only possible way to, um, explain what would
14:14
be happening in a home like mine or yours.
14:16
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
14:17
Speaker 2: Um, I also thought it was really, it was really funny the sort
14:21
of exploring that she did of, of the business side of some of these things.
14:26
Like the, the other category that they had was like the, the, the kind of
14:31
conservative boss babe, like an Erika Kirke or a, I don't know, just- Right
14:35
some of the names that she kinda threw in where I was like, "I
14:38
don't, I don't know these people."
14:40
Um, but, but just like, I don't know, just it's, it's funny that- A life like
14:49
this on its own terms and for its own sake is unimaginable to someone like
14:56
what's her name from The Guardian.
14:57
So, um, it's- it also is funny how a lot of her interview with me, or l- at
15:03
least a lot of what she led with, had to do with the marriage bed and with,
15:07
with sexual, um, you know, intimacy, and, and that that was a big part
15:13
of the sort of concern that- Mm-hmm
15:16
that she led with in the article.
15:19
And, um, the amount of time that I spent trying to explain what a
15:26
fun married sex life could be like to this woman in our, in our email
15:31
exchange is funny now in retrospect, because I actually thought that maybe
15:36
she was interested and you know.
15:40
And, uh, and it's just, it's funny.
15:42
It was funny to come back to the other side and be like, nope, she
15:45
just, she just still took that first line, um, and cut some words out
15:49
of it and used it as her headline.
15:51
Um, but just, yeah, trying to explain to her, like, when I said, when I said that
16:00
when your husband gets used to living with this kind of woman and he, he comes to a
16:05
point where he expects a yes, the way that you would expect a smile from a friendly
16:10
person that you know, or would expect a, you know, a good meal from the table
16:15
of a, of a good cook that you've, you know, you've eaten at her house before.
16:19
Like, he expects it because it's what he's come to experience from you.
16:23
And to take the word expect and- Yeah â¦ totally ignore everything that I just told
16:28
you and told her, and to- and then to pull it the way that she pulled it, it justâ¦
16:33
Yeah, it's one of those eye-opening moments where you realize, like,
16:36
they, they already wrote the article.
16:38
Mm-hmm.
16:38
They, they wrote the article before they emailed you.
16:42
Speaker: Yeah.
16:42
Speaker 2: And that's okay.
16:43
You know?
16:43
Yeah.
16:44
That's okay.
16:45
Speaker: Yep.
16:46
Where they're using it as if it's demands.
16:49
Speaker 2: Right.
16:50
Right.
16:51
Speaker: And that's not the aroma of the home that you're going for.
16:54
Right.
16:55
And one thing that I really like about, um, The Empowered Wife, when she sets
17:00
it up in the introduction- Mm-hmm
17:02
and she's saying, "I'm talking to wives only."
17:05
It's not really a whole picture marriage book.
17:08
This is- Yeah â¦ what can a wife do within a marriage-
17:14
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm
17:14
â¦ Speaker: to actually enjoy that life together and enjoy the marriage.
17:18
Yeah.
17:19
And she talks about how, um- women set the tone.
17:25
Like, women can change a marriage.
17:28
Mm-hmm.
17:28
And I think so often we, what, or at least what I see or hear often is women think,
17:36
"Well, because, you know, the husband is the head of the home and all that- Yes
17:40
he's responsible.
17:42
Yeah.
17:42
And so I, you know, I am helpless or he should- That's right â¦ he
17:47
should be X, Y, Z first before-
17:50
Speaker 2: That's right
17:50
â¦ Speaker: I have to do anything.
17:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:53
And you can see how, like, good, you know, good strong teaching on male leadership
17:57
and, um, and, and, like, the a- the authority structure in a home, that you
18:02
could take that good teaching and you could skew it off into that direction,
18:05
and I think a lot of women maybe do.
18:08
Because there's, there's a kind of passivity- Mm â¦ um, that that can
18:13
produce if you've decided to take it there, where you just say, "I'm
18:16
gonna dig in my heels and wait and, and until he leads, I cannot follow.
18:21
Until he straightens up, you know, I, I have nothing to respond to."
18:26
Basically, like, he sets the tone and, and as long as he's kinda snippy and
18:31
irritable, that's the tune of our home.
18:33
That's it.
18:33
That's end of story, you know?
18:35
And
18:35
Speaker: it's all his
18:35
Speaker 2: fault.
18:35
And, and, and then I can go around in my life muttering to myself
18:40
about, about him and his failings.
18:42
You know?
18:43
And, and a lot of what I mutter to myself will be true, you know,
18:46
on, on some technical level.
18:48
It's just, it's so important that women understand how much power they
18:53
truly have as Christian wives, um, to pursue joy in their marriage,
19:01
and to say, "It is, it is honoring to God for me to enjoy my husband.
19:06
How can I learn to do that?"
19:08
Um, and, and just how much movement they can make with some pretty simple changes.
19:14
I won't say they're small, because they're, they're not easy.
19:18
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
19:18
Speaker 2: But they're s- they are simple.
19:21
And, and, and then to, to go beyond the empowered wife kind of rubric
19:25
and say, "Not only do I want to enjoy my husband and to stop ki- trying to
19:30
control him and go out of my way to manage him and manage his life, um,
19:36
but how can I invite his leadership in a way that's not reminding him, you
19:40
know, constantly that he's not leading?"
19:42
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
19:42
Speaker 2: But, but to let him know how, how open and available I am to
19:48
this, this leadership and this area.
19:50
And then to do the things that are going to make for more of the same, you know?
19:55
To, to kinda lay groundwork that's going to make it, um, where the, where we both
20:01
learn some new, new muscles, you know?
20:04
And with, with the understanding that you're not, you're not going to
20:09
really function well as a couple and enjoy each other unless he is leading.
20:15
Right?
20:16
So, uh, so I know that sounds a little different from what we were just saying.
20:18
You're not powerless w- until your husband decides to lead in, in
20:22
whatever ways you're imagining.
20:24
Um, but you h- you have to know that that is the goal in a way that even
20:30
The Empowered Wife lady doesn't totally understand, that a man, a man who's
20:34
not taking any kind of ownership in his, in his home is not fully
20:39
stepping into what God made him to be.
20:42
And it's gonna be, it's gonna be hard for the functionality to be full and
20:48
complete and, and, you know, good in that home until he learns that.
20:51
That is totally true.
20:53
But the ways that we try to make that happen as wives are often s-
20:57
so counterproductive- Wow â¦ that we're actually eating away at
21:02
the very thing we're trying to, to, you know, produce in them.
21:06
Mm-hmm.
21:07
So, and a lot of it is just by thinking way too much about what his fa- his,
21:11
where his failings are, you know?
21:14
Speaker: Yeah.
21:14
Speaker 2: So-
21:16
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
21:17
Well, and even though, you know, we might say, "Well, I want him
21:23
to lead," it is often our picture of what we imagine that to be.
21:28
It's like, well, if he does it ourâ¦
21:30
He'll lead-
21:30
Speaker 2: That's right
21:31
our
21:31
Speaker: way.
21:31
If
21:31
Speaker 2: he would lead, if he would lead into the things that
21:34
I'm wanting him to lead into.
21:35
In other words, do what I want him to do.
21:38
Right.
21:39
But in a leader-ly way.
21:40
I don't know.
21:41
Yeah.
21:42
Speaker: Well, even like a microcosm of this.
21:44
I remember at one point when my husband took over doing the dinner
21:50
dishes when I was big pregnant and could, like, hardly reach- Mm-hmm
21:53
the sink.
21:54
He said, "I'm gonna do this."
21:55
Mm-hmm.
21:55
You know, "Go sit down."
21:56
Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
21:57
Yeah.
21:57
Speaker: And my immediate impulse was watching him, saying, "But
22:00
you're not doing it right."
22:02
Speaker 2: Yes.
22:03
Yeah.
22:04
That's
22:04
Speaker: right.
22:04
You have to load it.
22:05
Like, this is the right way.
22:07
Mm-hmm.
22:08
And instead of, like, letting him lead in that case was, like, saying- Just let
22:14
Speaker 2: him do
22:15
Speaker: it
22:15
thank you.
22:15
Yeah.
22:16
Speaker 2: Right.
22:16
Speaker: Like-
22:17
Speaker 2: Right.
22:18
Speaker: Maybe- Yeah â¦ even, like, checking it out and doing, loading
22:22
it his way after that and thenâ¦
22:24
Mm-hmm.
22:25
Speaker 2: No, I couldâ¦
22:25
It could be that he innovates something that's actually a better,
22:28
better way for you to do it.
22:28
Be
22:29
Speaker: open to that, right?
22:30
Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
22:31
Right.
22:32
Right.
22:32
So I do think, yeah, if, if that'sâ¦
22:36
Those are the, those are the very small things and small moments in marriage-
22:41
Speaker: Mm-hmm
22:41
â¦ Speaker 2: that begin very, very early, even, even whenâ¦
22:45
They begin even when we're, like, courting, dating, you know, before,
22:48
before the marriage has begun.
22:50
They're a little, um, markers, I think, of either leadership
22:56
and response or leadership from behind and passivity and- Mm-hmm
23:03
and then irritability when the, when the, when his, his attempt at leadership
23:08
that maybe happened and wasn't received.
23:10
Um, they're just, those kinds of patterns, they're, they're,
23:15
they, they're very small things.
23:17
That's what we need to understand, is it's not these big, like, where
23:20
are we gonna send the kids to school?
23:22
Are we gonna buy that house or not?
23:24
Like, those big kinds of decisions.
23:26
I think that's the, that's the place where we think all the submission happens.
23:30
It's like, okay, there's a tiebreaker situation.
23:33
You don't agree on something.
23:35
Submission is we let him break the tie.
23:38
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
23:38
Speaker 2: And by the time you get to those big moments, your pattern of
23:42
leadership and response has already been set by many small moments.
23:46
So, um- It is, it is so much more of a big deal how the courtesy and kindness
23:55
of everyday moments in the home work.
23:57
Like, how does itâ¦
23:58
What happens when he puts on a different shirt and shorts on the, on the toddler
24:04
because he, you know, went and decided to get them ready and get them out
24:08
the door, whatever, for some reason?
24:09
Like, how does that moment go?
24:11
Or how does that, how does it go when he sits down and leads family worship
24:16
and it's not what you were picturing?
24:18
You know, when you were asking, "Man, can we please start
24:21
doing more family worship?"
24:22
And then he goes and starts doing it, and it's not what you thought
24:26
for s- for whatever reason.
24:28
Like, how does that moment go?
24:29
Um, so it's, it's all, it's all these tiny moments throughout the day where
24:34
you can set a temperature of gratitude and, um, and moving with him, and
24:41
even invitation to, for him to be a, be the man, you know, in your life.
24:47
Um, to be kind of the hero in, in your life in very small ways.
24:51
Like, he wants to do that, and that's the thing I think The
24:54
Empowered Wife demonstrated so well, is like a man's desire to please
24:58
his wife is actually quite strong.
25:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:00
Speaker 2: And she d- she demons- she, she, she makes that so clear in the
25:04
book, and you can tell the reason why she's having to repeat it so much is
25:08
that when you've been in an irritable marriage for a long time, where there's
25:11
a lot of just friction, littleâ¦
25:12
And it's always little, little thing friction, you know?
25:15
But it, it grows to the point that you think, "This person is anti-me.
25:20
Like, this person is kind of against me.
25:23
Um, and they don't really want, he doesn't really want my happiness."
25:27
And you don't understand that he wants, he deeply wants your happiness.
25:31
Like, this is why you get so many passive men, is that they're,
25:35
they're afraid of their wife's unhappiness to an unhealthy degree.
25:39
But what he really does want to be the hero in your life.
25:44
Like, he wants to be the dude.
25:45
He wants to be the man that you, um, look to and are grateful for.
25:51
And the way that you em- that you power him up is usually through gratitude.
25:57
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
25:57
Speaker 2: Um, openly expressed and demonstrated in other ways.
26:01
Like, gratitude isâ¦
26:03
I'm, that's the, the, one of the first things I got on Instagram to
26:06
say is like, you know, you can pour fuel in his engine or you can be the
26:11
little engine light that dings at him all the time and ruins his day.
26:16
You know?
26:17
Yeah.
26:19
I'm monologuing.
26:20
Speaker: No, that's good.
26:21
That's good.
26:22
Um- Yeah, it is the little things, and we can change those little things.
26:29
Mm-hmm.
26:29
Um, like, I talk often about just making it a habit to smile at
26:34
your kids and how that changes the tone- Yeah â¦ of your house.
26:38
Mm-hmm.
26:38
But how much more when that is your husband too- Yeah â¦ because what
26:43
you have as a husband and wife between you is your home that your kids-
26:48
Yes â¦ are then taking part in.
26:50
Speaker 2: Yes.
26:51
That is so important to see.
26:52
'Cause I do think as, as, as homeschool moms or just as moms, we, we are, we're,
26:58
we're tapped into that and, and maybe we, we're attempting it, maybe we fail on a,
27:03
on a difficult day to smile at our kids.
27:05
But, but I do feel like we're, we're aware.
27:07
Here's a, here's a thing, I need to be kind to my children.
27:10
But because he comes in and he's, he's not one of the kids, I just
27:16
Speaker: think
27:16
Speaker 2: we can- He's a little disruptive sometimes.
27:16
Heâ¦
27:16
Yeah, that's right.
27:17
Like, he- â¦ he may come in with a different idea of what's about to happen.
27:20
Um, and he's not, he's not cute like- â¦ the way the
27:26
little kids are, um, hopefully.
27:29
In fact, he's, he's a full-grown male specimen of the species and he's, and
27:35
he is to be treated, um, with priority.
27:40
And so, and in that way, you pour more functionality and more, um,
27:49
more of a feeling of safety and security for those kids than you
27:53
can possibly imagine, especially if you have sons, but, but any kids.
27:57
Like, they want to see that there is warmth in the air between dad and mom.
28:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:02
Speaker 2: And so any amount of time and effort that you spend to honor and
28:07
enjoy and prioritize your husband is a gift that flows over onto the children.
28:14
It can't help but flow over onto the children.
28:16
And, um, I mean, I, I say this with the experience of being a child
28:21
of, of adult divorce, um, and itâ¦
28:25
or I should say an adult child of divorce, um, whose parents also
28:29
remarried each other later on.
28:31
I, I now understand, I think, in a way I didn't before, how that feeling
28:36
never goes away for your children.
28:38
Your children will root for your marriage till the day they die.
28:42
They will care about how you treat each other till the day they
28:45
die, even when they are out, you know, running their own families.
28:50
Um, it's never not going to affect them.
28:53
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
28:53
Speaker 2: So all, all the relational capital that you can build in
28:58
your marriage is capital that you are passing to your children.
29:02
You may care about s- you know, an inheritance for them.
29:05
Here is the inheritance that you need to be thinking about is, is
29:09
relational capital in your marriage, so.
29:13
Speaker: Yeah.
29:13
For sure.
29:15
So where can people find Wife School?
29:18
Speaker 2: You can goâ¦
29:19
I have a website now my brother-in-law set up for me.
29:22
It's like five little, little tabs.
29:26
Um, it's just TillyDillehay.com,
29:28
and I think it sh- it's on there.
29:30
And you can, you can go on Instagram too now.
29:33
There's, there's ways to find it there, so.
29:35
Speaker: Well, thank you so much, Tilly.
29:37
This has been very helpful and, um, I hope an encouragement for women that
29:43
it matters how- Mm-hmm â¦ they treat their husband in the little things.
29:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:49
Smile at him today.
29:50
Thank him for something.
29:52
You won't regret it.