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Katie Woolf spoke with AFANT CEO David Ciaravolo · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Join the conversation with k Wolf.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: You are our eyes and ears in the territory mix
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: one oh four point nine.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: And quite a few of you are joining the conversation
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  Speaker 3: this morning. If you do want to send us a message,
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  Speaker 3: you most certainly can zero four one, eight nine five
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  Speaker 3: seven three sixty nine. You can also give us a
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: call if you'd like eight nine four one one oh
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: four nine And I've got a message here It says
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: better changes inside two years.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Yo.
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  Speaker 3: Why is a permit required? Do they need a permit
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  Speaker 3: to travel to any territory areas? Territorians are territorians and
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  Speaker 3: we're all Australians. Let's cut all the financial handouts to
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  Speaker 3: the NLC and let's see how long they survive. What
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  Speaker 3: a croc a cyclone in a teacup says this text.
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  Speaker 3: I do want to point out though, that the NLC
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  Speaker 3: is not receiving any kind of fees or anything for.
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  Speaker 1: The registration process.
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  Speaker 3: But Alan has messaged and said, hi, KT, in two
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  Speaker 3: or four years they will have the stats and know
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  Speaker 3: who to charge. A thin edge of the weird, he says,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: how safe is data? Who will look at privacy etc.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: They're selling as safety, but it's far more if they've
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: spent money on lawyers. There's more to this, reckons Allen.
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  Speaker 3: And well let's get the other side of the fence,
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  Speaker 3: because joining us on the line right now is David
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  Speaker 3: Chiirrovolo ahead of Fat the Amateur Fishermen's Association here in
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  Speaker 3: the Northern Territory.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning David, Good morning Katie. And you'll be pleased
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: to hear that I'm not intending to growl and I'll
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: choose to articulate my thoughts this morning.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: All right, sounds like a plan. Now, what was your
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: reaction to the announcement?
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, I think we have a lot of concerns
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  Speaker 2: around it, particularly as it has been announced, and we
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  Speaker 2: certainly have called upon the Territory government to do better
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: in this space, to lift their game and intervene to
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: make sure that we can have a much better solution
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: to what has been a very long running issue, dating back,
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  Speaker 2: of course, back to two thousand and eight when traditional
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: owners were granted ownership exclusive ownership of intertitle zones and rivers,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: and so many traditional owners, as Marion has said, have
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  Speaker 2: generously shared and agreed to share their waters with all
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  Speaker 2: Territorians from that day until today. We now have a
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  Speaker 2: situation where place is like, and I'm certainly happy to
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  Speaker 2: go into the detail. The Phinnis River is off limits
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  Speaker 2: by and large, mostly off limits. Mini minis are off limits,
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  Speaker 2: and effectively the permit system which they're calling a registration
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  Speaker 2: doesn't actually cover any waters within a couple of hundred
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  Speaker 2: kilometers of Darwin.
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  Speaker 3: So all right, I am going to need a bit
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  Speaker 3: more detail here because, as you know, I'm not somebody
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  Speaker 3: who heads out fishing, and so I'm not really familiar
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: with some of these areas.
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  Speaker 1: Obviously, Marian Scrimdaw was just on the show and.
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  Speaker 3: Said that there are still areas of the Finnis which
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: are open to fishermen, and she said that negotiation is
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  Speaker 3: still underway with traditional owners around the mini mini river systems.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So David, through it from your perspectives.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I guess, of course, only talk from my
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  Speaker 2: perspective and the perspective of all the recreational fishes that
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  Speaker 2: I have the privilege of engaging with on a regular basis.
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  Speaker 2: The Finnis River as described by Marion, And look, I
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  Speaker 2: think we have to forgive Marion in terms of her
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  Speaker 2: specific knowledge of details here. It is a big coastline,
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  Speaker 2: and I guess, unlike myself who's been engaged in the
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  Speaker 2: Finnis River a lot, she's got a lot of area
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  Speaker 2: to look out for. But the first five kilometers of
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  Speaker 2: the river itself is not Aboriginal land, and of course
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  Speaker 2: couldn't be closed by traditional owners because it's not Aboriginal land.
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  Speaker 2: From that point onwards, there has been a waiver in
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  Speaker 2: place for the next eight kilometers of river, which is
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  Speaker 2: the most productive and commonly fished areas in the Finnis River,
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  Speaker 2: and then whole fifteen kilometers up the river there has
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  Speaker 2: been that closure line that Marion referred to. What has
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  Speaker 2: been not only put in the maps today but explained
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: to me directly by their principal legal officer and their
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  Speaker 2: media officer on Friday, is that the consultations last week
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  Speaker 2: with the traditional owners have led to that area previously
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  Speaker 2: covered by waiver. That area five kilometers and another eight
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  Speaker 2: kilometers onwards is now closed. So the area when people think,
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  Speaker 2: you know, when I'm going to the Finis and I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to go fishing in the Finnis, most of that
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  Speaker 2: area is now closed for the first time.
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  Speaker 3: So you're talking about around thirteen kilometers of the Finnis,
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  Speaker 3: and what you're saying is that's the area that most
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  Speaker 3: people utilize and that's no longer available.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's really important to acknowledge from that sort
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  Speaker 2: of fifteen kilometer mark onwards has been closed for a
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  Speaker 2: number of years, more than five years, and that's been
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  Speaker 2: at the request of traditional owners, certainly something that we respect,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: in something that fishes have become accustomed to. What I
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: was told by the NLC staff on Friday that the
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: traditional owners in that lower section have decided that they
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  Speaker 2: didn't want to sign up to access our guests basically
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  Speaker 2: for no benefit. And that's what we're calling on the
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  Speaker 2: territory government to do a better job of making sure
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  Speaker 2: that really good offers can be put to traditional owners
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  Speaker 2: to secure long term access. Now, if that's with a registration,
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  Speaker 2: then so be it. That's up to traditional owners. We've
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  Speaker 2: previously advocated for a permit free system and that's certainly
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  Speaker 2: what we'd prefer. But if tos are saying that they
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  Speaker 2: need to have a registration, we're saying needs to be
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  Speaker 2: underpinned by benefits provided by the traditional by the territory
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  Speaker 2: government that flow to traditional owners in exchange for that
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  Speaker 2: access and the territory government needs to take an interest
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  Speaker 2: in the permit system. There needs to be dispute resolution
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  Speaker 2: mechanisms in that system, and there needs to be certainty
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  Speaker 2: for businesses and for recreational fishes. And look, I want
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  Speaker 2: to highlight you had somebody talk about data security. Now,
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  Speaker 2: one of the things I raised with the NLC and
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  Speaker 2: I asked for prior to the launch. Here was a
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  Speaker 2: copy of the privacy policy. I was very concerned to
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  Speaker 2: make sure that any data being provided would be stored
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  Speaker 2: securely and only access for the right purposes, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Lo and behold, we hear that I've applied for a permit,
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  Speaker 2: and that's information that's come from the permit team and
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  Speaker 2: supplied and then revealed on the media. And that is true.
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  Speaker 2: It was a simple process. It doesn't apply to any
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  Speaker 2: of the waters that I intend to fish anytime soon.
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  Speaker 2: But the fact that that information has been used improperly,
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  Speaker 2: I think really highlights the concern that a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people will have and why the government needs to take
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  Speaker 2: an interest in this process, a much more active interest
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  Speaker 2: than it has, because, like Marion, I want us to
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  Speaker 2: work together and come to the best possible solution. But
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  Speaker 2: ever since that deal was signed before the election last year,
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  Speaker 2: in my view and in the view of most fishes,
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  Speaker 2: things have not got better, They've got worse.
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  Speaker 3: So, David, by the sounds of thing, did you actually
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: feel as though the Northern Territory government has dropped the
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  Speaker 3: ball here? Oh?
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  Speaker 2: Look, absolutely, at the end of the day, the Lord
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  Speaker 2: of Lamb Council has to look after its constituents and
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  Speaker 2: the law is really clear that traditional owners have the
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  Speaker 2: right to decide. Now. Traditional owners have been sharing their
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: waters for twelve years in most places or in other
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: areas have already agreed to long term access deals. Since
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, no new long term access deals have been assigned.
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  Speaker 2: And also we have a situation where another agreement has
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  Speaker 2: been entered into that really tends to focus a lot
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  Speaker 2: more on commercial fishing and kicks the discussions around long
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  Speaker 2: term access agreements with funds to traditional owners. Increased amounts
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  Speaker 2: of ranges on the water infrastructure that traditional owners and
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  Speaker 2: rangers need being kicked down the road and we want
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  Speaker 2: to see that focus immediately concurrently with other developments, and
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  Speaker 2: we've called upon the Chief Minister and the Territory government
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  Speaker 2: to act on this immediately. They've got to act for
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  Speaker 2: all territories. We don't want division in our community when
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  Speaker 2: it can be avoided, and I think if we've got
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  Speaker 2: teos who want to share their country, it can be avoided.
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  Speaker 3: Now, dovid, what impact is this going to have on
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  Speaker 3: recreational fishing in the Northern Territory as it currently stands.
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  Speaker 2: Well, everyone's really excited for a great runoff. If you
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: are paying attention around the election, and if you're paying
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  Speaker 2: attention in December, you'd have an expectation that there was
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  Speaker 2: going to be continued access until the end of twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty two. If you've booked accommodation down at Dundee from
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: today onwards and we're planning to go and fish the
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  Speaker 2: coastal creeks in fog Bay, or if you're planning to
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  Speaker 2: go and fish in the Finnis River, then you won't
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  Speaker 2: be able to do that. If you've got family and
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  Speaker 2: friends of a book flight to come up here and
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  Speaker 2: go fishing with you there, you won't be able to
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  Speaker 2: do that. So it will have an impact. We wrote
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: to the NLC. We wrote to Marian last week. We
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: asked her to implement a waiver for recreational fishes until
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  Speaker 2: the middle of the year to allow all consultations to
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  Speaker 2: conclude and to allow the government to put better deals
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  Speaker 2: on the table. Clearly that's been rejected because we have
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  Speaker 2: permits today and so there will be a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people and a lot of businesses affected by this.
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  Speaker 1: Goodness, May David.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I think it's going to be really an interesting
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  Speaker 3: time for us on air this morning, hearing from all
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  Speaker 3: the Northern territories fishermen and look, you know, like I
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  Speaker 3: said right from the outset, I.
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  Speaker 1: Obviously don't go out fishing.
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  Speaker 3: I don't have a huge amount of knowledge on this,
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  Speaker 3: but after speaking to you, following on from that discussion
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  Speaker 3: with Marian Scrimdaw, it does sound as though with some
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  Speaker 3: of these locations it's going to have a much bigger
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  Speaker 3: impact than what we may have initially thought.
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  Speaker 2: Look, it's certainly more than a storm in the teacup.
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  Speaker 2: But one of the things that I want to urge
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  Speaker 2: is that this is about making sure that we can
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  Speaker 2: have a more enduring and more harmonious future, making sure
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: that the government does everything that it absolutely can, and
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  Speaker 2: I want to call upon all recreational fishes to remain
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: as respectful as they possibly can, because we are in
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: a situation where we want to negotiate with traditional owners.
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  Speaker 2: We want the government to negotiate with traditional owners for access,
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  Speaker 2: and it's very important that it is a respectful conversation.
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  Speaker 2: I have faith that we can achieve better if we
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: actually work and listen together, and I hope that's what's
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: going to happen, starting with the territory government listening to
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: what we're saying right now.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I think you hit the nail on the head there.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I think that if this becomes nasty, it's not going
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: to be a good thing for either side of this argument.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: So we've got to try to keep things as respectful
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: as possible and, as you've said, work together to try
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: and get a better outcome if that's what's required. David
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: gi Rivolo, it is always good to talk to you, mate.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: I reckon we could be talking again later in the week.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, good on you, Thank you.