Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Episode 10_ Are your thoughts your own

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Episode 10_ Are your thoughts your own · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Spire podcast. Today we
• 0:15
  have with you Nick.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Fulton and Michael It was perfect.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Timing today we will be discussing it was suggested by
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  a viewer of ours, discerning prayer from projection, basically just
• 0:33
  to understand the effects prayer has in one life, in
• 0:37
  one's life, and to kind of understand where God's presence
• 0:42
  is in all of this. So to start us off
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  with a question, I'm gonna ask you, how does God
• 0:50
  speak to you in your life? How do you hear
• 0:54
  the voice of God?
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Hmmm, like in prayer, like in a prayer time.
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  Speaker 1: In prayer time and normal time and basically anytime, Like,
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  how do you experience God's presence?
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  Speaker 3: I feel like that's a complicated question. How could you?
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  Could you? Could you be more like the way the
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  question it's just yeah, no.
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  Speaker 1: It is a very difficult question. Because I was talking
• 1:28
  with the priests from Spiritual Discernment and he was just like, so,
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  like what do you want and like, I don't know.
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  It's it's such a difficult question to be like, how
• 1:36
  does God speak to you?
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  Speaker 3: It depends on what context and what context?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, then let's look at in prayer you are doing
• 1:45
  your normal daily prayer. Do you experience God's presence in
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  some way or do you notice the effects of prayer.
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  Speaker 4: I would say recently it's increased dramatically my sense that
• 1:58
  God has Jesus is there. So if it kind of
• 2:03
  used to be, I felt like I was talking to
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  a figment of my imagination, and so I was more
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  of just saying things out loud instead of talking to somebody.
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  So the things I was saying I didn't really mean
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  even though I wanted to mean them. But recently, I
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  think it's been changing, and so the way I experienced
• 2:25
  it the most is I'll kind of just take a
• 2:29
  second to pause and then just realize that no matter
• 2:33
  what I'm doing or what I'm thinking or what I feel,
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  he is right there. And then I can just sort
• 2:39
  of sense that he's there, and then I can just
• 2:43
  say what I'm say, what's on my heart, and then
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  I kind of just feel out if I'm talking, am
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  I just trying to fill up space? Or should I
• 2:52
  be more quiet and just kind of sit here with this?
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  Is there something on my mind specifically that I'm just
• 3:00
  anxious about? And I think that the way I experienced
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  it the most is just knowing that he's real. So
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  it's nothing crazy where I don't feel like like I
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  think I've had moments where I experience like I'll cry
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  about a memory or like a feeling or realization or
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  just sort of when you're kind of hit with reality
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  all at once where you're like, oh my gosh, I'm
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  growing up, Like I remember being a little kid, I
• 3:27
  remember how I felt here, I remember this, and then
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  it kind of all hits as being very real and
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  then you like cry. So I think that those are
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  some of the most powerful experiences I've had. I'm just
• 3:39
  sort of like, it's like the same cry that I
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  did when I was little, and so that experience is
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  pretty I would say the closest thing to I feel
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  like God is touching my heart. But then on a
• 3:55
  day to day and kind of a prayer thing, it's
• 3:57
  like a way more minuscule version of that, and it's
• 4:00
  just kind of this calm realization that He is right there.
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  Speaker 5: That is how I experience God.
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  Speaker 4: But then I think, also, sorry, you can go back
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  to me, Okay, all right, there's just one more thing.
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  But I think the more I try to be open,
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  I think for a long time I was very I
• 4:24
  was like, I'm not going to say things that are
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  explicitly religious.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not going to talk about things because I.
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: Didn't really believe them. But I think what I'm starting
• 4:32
  to realize now is I do believe these things, and
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  they are real to me, and they become more real
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  every day, And so I think I more and more
• 4:47
  intently pay attention to what's going on and sort of
• 4:51
  bringing the Holy Spirit into it and trying to see
• 4:55
  Jesus at the same time, which really just brings it
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  into reality where I'm not so much lost.
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  Speaker 3: In like like what's going on my head like this
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  is funded and more of just like, Okay, this is really,
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  this is real, this is real. What does he see?
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  What is real? What's happening?
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  Speaker 4: And then and then when you do that, I think
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  you see more opportunities where like things will happen and
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  work and you're like, Okay, I like that's just interesting
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  that that would happen. And so like there's been a
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  couple events in my life where I'm like right on
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  the edge of like what am I going to do?
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  I don't understand what's going on, and I feel like
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  I couldn't talk to God and I would go sit,
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  like at a soccer field, super far away, and then
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  this deacon randomly walked up to me and sat down
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  and he's like.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, I was just checking. What are you doing all?
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  And I was like, ah, I'm thinking.
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  Speaker 4: And then we had a really good conversation and it
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  was extremely impactful for just my realization that someone who
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  doesn't know me wants to show.
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  Speaker 3: Me love anyway.
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  Speaker 4: And so and then There's been a couple of those,
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  and I think the more I just put myself in
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  a scenario of Okay, I'm trying to make myself available,
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  so a conversation comes up, or I have a thought
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  or an idea about something, or somebody asks me a question,
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  and I'm starting to see those more as Okay, this
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  is actually there's a pattern that's not just random. So
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  I think I experienced God in that a lot too,
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  And just.
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  Speaker 1: Like the physical reality that you can sense, yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, yes, all right.
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  Speaker 2: This is a tough question to answer, the hardest. It
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  is really hard. I would say that I can experience
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  I can experience God in my life through pretty much anything.
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  I think it can be through people. I think it
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  can be through interactions with people. It can be through art.
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  I think specifically it can be through music. There will
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  be plenty of times, like I cannot tell you the
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  number of times where I'll be on my car just
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  driving around, having like a really sucky day, and then
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  the song comes on and the lyrics are like exactly
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  about what it was that I was feeling in that moment,
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  or mine looks really quiet, So yeah, a little further away, bit,
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  that's fine.
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  Speaker 5: Sorry.
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  Speaker 2: There's a song by Forrest Frank do you know who
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  he is. It's called good Day. He just came out
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  with it like a couple of weeks ago or something,
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  and that was it was like a really small thing,
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  but I was having like a really bad day on
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  the song or on the day that I heard that song.
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  And in that song he says there's a line where
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  he just says, and the guy who made the universe
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  knows knows me by my name, And in that moment,
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  that's kind of like exactly what I hear. And so
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  I would say the biggest thing for me is that
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  I would hear God's voice through music, because that's kind
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  of what speaks to my heart. The other thing that
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  I want to say is that the other thing that
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  I would say is that I when I think about this,
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  I try and think about it in terms of the
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  difference between the way that God speaks to me and
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  the way that the devil tries to speak to me,
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  because in my experience, I have found that if God
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  speaks to me, he speaks to my heart, and the
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  devil tries to speak to my mind, and that there
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  will be times when like I was talking to my
• 8:45
  mom about this the other day and I was just
• 8:46
  like having a really rough day and she was like
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  talking to me about something I had said on this podcast,
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  and she was like, uh, you know what you said,
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  just like way out and like everything will get better.
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  And I'm like, even though I know him my heart,
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  that's true. Even though I know in my heart that
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  everything is gonna be okay, even though I know in
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  my heart that God loves me all the stuff in
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  my mind, there's still these thoughts that run through it
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  of like what if that's not true? And then you
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  have all these doubts and stuff. And so that's what
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  I would say. My experience is that I can experience
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  God through a lot of different things, but when I
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  experience God, it's something that touches my heart or touches
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  my soul, and sometimes the opposite of that is something
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  that triggers my mind that makes me question my heart
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  in a way. Yeah, but I don't know, it's a
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  really tough question for me to answer. I don't really
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  know exactly how I define it, probably somewhat similar to
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  what Fulham was saying.
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  Speaker 1: But it's a very difficult question because it's a very
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  personal one and it's almost like the whole goal of
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  our prayer life to hear God's voice and to do
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  his will through that. So that's why it's like one
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  of the most difficult because it's one of the most
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  important questions. Yeah, for me, it's like again really difficult,
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  Like I was talking in spiritual directions and stuff and
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  just trying to figure out, like what are the fruits
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  of prayer and whatnot. The times when it feels most real,
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  like you were saying, just like it just makes sense,
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  is in times of peace that come when not just
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  from like ah, comfortable, but like peace where it's almost
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  like actively peaceful, like to experience the beauty of nature
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  or something like that, or sometimes in the chapel when
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  I'm just like looking up at demonstrance and just it
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  just feels real. I don't think anything, I don't say anything,
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  but it's just like I just sit there and it's nice.
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  But yeah, as he was saying, it's like the devil
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  attack of the mind. That's very much a real thing.
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  Because as someone who likes to.
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  Speaker 2: Think, mine there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that.
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  Speaker 1: But as someone who likes to think, my thoughts come
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  up quite a lot in prayer, and I start analyzing things,
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  and then I start analyzing the way I'm thinking about things,
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  and then I'm like, but wait, no, I shouldn't be
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  thinking like that. Am I forcing myself to think like
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  this because I think it's a correct way to do it.
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  And it just gets confusing, which I think a lot
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  of people appreciate that that life just gets confusing and
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  sometimes like you can't really discern in the moment whether
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  not God is speaking to you or you're just making
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  it up as you go.
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  Speaker 4: I actually think that confusion is a tactic of the devil.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, that makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: That's like what Michael was saying, He uses your mind.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, what do you guys think about this? I
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  read this quote from a guy named Dan Burke. He
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  said that none of your thoughts are your own. What
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  do you guys think about?
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  Speaker 3: Apparently I don't think anything about.
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  Speaker 1: That is also a logical fallacy. Your thoughts are not yours, well,
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  then you're not naming anything that is not mine. But anyway, no,
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  I know what you mean, but I would I would
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  push back against that because of the concept of free
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  will and of consciousness and just like self understanding, which
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  is the gift of the rational human soul. So like, yeah,
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  our thoughts are our own, but the influences upon our
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  thoughts are not inherently ours. And there's different like levels
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  of consciousness you've got, like the conscious, the unconscious, like
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  different depths of unconsciousness. I've talked about this with friends before.
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  It's it's a really interesting concept that there are different
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  levels of consciousness. But yeah, your thoughts are not your own.
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  There are influences on your thoughts, whether or not. It's
• 13:00
  like physiological things. Because you know, I haven't eaten yet,
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  so I'm a little hungry, and so my thoughts are
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  adjusted in that way, which you could say, oh, it's
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  my hunger. But the devil can also influence you in
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  these ways.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, So yeah, well this is kind of He says,
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  all the thoughts in your head are not yours and
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  you shouldn't listen to them, Dan Burke, this is apparently
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  he's a legit.
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  Speaker 3: Guy, So I think that so this.
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  Speaker 4: Is this is within the ignacious discernment of spirits, and
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  so I don't know how I think it feel about this.
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  Speaker 1: But what are you supposed to listen to in terms
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  of like thinking, like, your thoughts are not your own,
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  you shouldn't listen to them?
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  Speaker 4: Well, think I guess the problem is, how do you, like,
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  how do you consider this?
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  Speaker 3: Like my hanswer died?
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  Speaker 4: But okay, what if What he's trying to say is
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  that if the evil spirit can put thoughts in your head,
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  which they can, that's one of the tactics. You shouldn't
• 14:08
  listen to the thoughts in your own head, but you
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  should meditate with your heart on the truth that Jesus
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  has said.
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  Speaker 5: Mm hmm.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, that would actually I think, Well, Jesus does say
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  he is the truth, the way, the life. So if
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  it's true, and you can tell it's true based on
• 14:38
  the fruit, that it's good.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But like, still your thoughts, it is still something
• 14:48
  really important to you. It is still part of your.
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  Speaker 3: Right and can't be taken too literally.
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  Speaker 1: I think yeah, And so I think it's supposed to
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  push us towards the idea of the influences on our thoughts,
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  that like, yeah, the devil can put things in your mind,
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  and so that's actually one aspect of temptations. Temptations in
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  themselves are not sinful because if they're just put into
• 15:13
  your mind by the devil, that's not your faults. It's
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  what you do with the temptations and how you allow
• 15:19
  yourself to be better able to absorb those temptations that
• 15:24
  determine the sinful nature of it.
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  Speaker 4: The only thing is Sam Harris has talked about this
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  where he goes, you don't think your own thoughts. They
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  just reveal themselves to you, and then you think that
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  you thought it, but you didn't, you didn't like it.
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  They just it's like a constant stream of from where
• 15:45
  though thoughts? Right, that's the whole point. So it's not
• 15:48
  from you, it's I mean every I think everyone would
• 15:51
  have different opinions, but for instance, you could say from
• 15:54
  the unconscious, But ultimately it's a stream of thoughts being
• 15:58
  pushed through your consciousness and that can come from evil spirits.
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  So I feel like it's I've never thought about it before,
• 16:09
  but there might be some truth to You should fill
• 16:12
  your minds with the truths of God and not listen
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  to the thoughts that you formulate on your own, because
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  if you go, Okay, I'm going to think about this
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  and you're not, and you just go what do I think?
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  Speaker 2: Like?
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  Speaker 3: What do I think God would think about this? Really,
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  what you should be.
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  Speaker 4: Doing is comparing that the thought that it would appear
• 16:30
  in your head, to a truth that's already been revealed,
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  and then you determine if this is from a good
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  spirit or a bad spirit. But that's not as much
• 16:40
  thinking as it is listening to your heart and discerning
• 16:45
  what do you think?
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  Speaker 2: No, I oh, I feel like I like that a
• 16:50
  little bit better, because okay, so this is going to
• 16:54
  be a little bit of a tangent, but this is
• 16:57
  one of the things I was thinking about earlier. So
• 16:58
  I'm glad you kind of brought it up. We talked
• 17:04
  about this a Bible in the year the first week.
• 17:07
  Maybe I don't know if I say it for that
• 17:11
  So in the Garden of Eden, Satan does what.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: Just what a bunch of stuff?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know at the root of it is he
• 17:26
  gets Adam and Eve to question to not trust God's trustworthiness.
• 17:32
  He gets them to not trust God. Yeah, and that's
• 17:35
  the only thing that he could have done in that
• 17:38
  moment to get them to not follow him, because he
• 17:43
  says he loves you. He says that you can trust him.
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  He says that he's powerful and he has this authority
• 17:48
  and he is God, and he says these things. And
• 17:52
  the only reason you would have to not trust that
• 17:55
  is if God can't be trusted. And so that's what's.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's what actually yeah okay, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So if God can't be trusted, then all of
• 18:04
  a sudden, all that's off the table. So I think
• 18:06
  that the way that we approach prayer, I can just
• 18:10
  say this for me, just from experience, the way that
• 18:13
  a lot of times I've approached prayer or like trying
• 18:15
  to ask God for something, I could say, like I
• 18:22
  don't know in this moment, like I might feel like
• 18:26
  God doesn't love me, and I say, God, I want
• 18:29
  you to give me a sign that you love me,
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  And like why am I thinking that? I'm thinking that
• 18:33
  because there's a voice in my ear that's telling me
• 18:36
  that there's a reason to think that he doesn't even
• 18:38
  though he said that he has, or even though he
• 18:40
  said that he does. So that's why I'm kind of
• 18:45
  now that you've explained a little bit more, I'm getting
• 18:47
  a little bit more on board with it, because it's
• 18:51
  really like, we can we think so many things, right,
• 18:56
  but if we go with that thought over what has
• 18:58
  been revealed to us to be true, then right, So
• 19:03
  if we compare again, if it's if we say it's
• 19:06
  evil spirits and good spirits who are putting thoughts into
• 19:08
  your head, I don't know, Like, obviously, I think there
• 19:11
  are thoughts in your head that have nothing to do
• 19:13
  with that. I think that there are things that you think.
• 19:15
  I think they're whatever. They're like biological. I think there's
• 19:18
  physiological things whatever. I would But actually we can get
• 19:24
  into that in a second. But I think that too
• 19:30
  often we say, God, give me a sign of this,
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  God give me a sign of that. I want you
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  to speak to me because we think that he hasn't already,
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  and we ignore the signs and the truth that he's
• 19:43
  already given us because we want more, because we don't
• 19:45
  think the signs and the truth that we've been given
• 19:47
  can be trusted because there's a voice in our ear
• 19:49
  that's saying, you can't trust this. There's something better that's
• 19:53
  being hidden from you. And if you think hard enough,
• 19:55
  if you try hard enough, you can find that thing
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  completely separate from what's already been given to you. And
• 20:01
  we believe that too often, and so we say.
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  Speaker 3: God like in our actions, we believe that.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: So I it's really tough because there's parts of it
• 20:10
  where I'm like, I do I think that there are
• 20:12
  things that I think that are like maybe my brain
• 20:16
  is like if I think, you know, if it's one
• 20:20
  plus one equals X, like what's X? And like I
• 20:25
  don't think that, Like I think that there are functions
• 20:27
  of your brain that produce thoughts that are not spiritual. Inherently,
• 20:32
  I believe that, but I think that there are there's
• 20:35
  like a whole other realm of thoughts that because we're
• 20:39
  spiritual beings at the end of the day, And.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: What realm do you think thoughts are in? I don't know.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: That's why this is so hard. It's such a Yeah, I.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Think that I have a theory that the conscious realm
• 20:51
  is actually the way that the spiritual is understood through
• 20:55
  the physical, but there might be some slight heresies in there,
• 20:59
  so I'm not I say, that's that's why.
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  Speaker 2: That's part of why I'm always so like scared to
• 21:04
  talk about this kind of thing, is I'm like, I
• 21:06
  don't want to say something that upsides the priests.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: What what you're talking about a lot is the concept
• 21:11
  of doubts and how doubts can influence you and whether
• 21:15
  or not these doubts come from the devil or from
• 21:18
  your own intellectual pursuit that isn't necessarily from the devil
• 21:22
  or whatnot. Like, those doubts do exist, and they do
• 21:26
  have influences on you. And as you were saying, you
• 21:28
  need to compare these with the truths that are revealed.
• 21:31
  But you know that comparison has to be done through
• 21:34
  some mean and that is through our intellectual side.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Of things, right, because it isn't a power of the soul.
• 21:40
  The intellect.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, the intellect is the power is the power of
• 21:44
  the soul.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Okay, so that's a good thing. Yeah, So then thoughts
• 21:47
  flow into the intellect.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the intellect is what we are thinking about
• 21:52
  when we say thoughts in this general sense. But also
• 21:55
  there's because you were talking about you know, there's just
• 21:58
  this constant see of thoughts and then things pop up
• 22:01
  and then you think you thought that. And that's just
• 22:05
  in my understanding, just the difference between unconscious and conscious,
• 22:08
  and like, we don't really understand the effects or the
• 22:10
  influences of the unconscious, and some levels of the unconscious
• 22:15
  can feel like you're thinking them consciously, but you still
• 22:18
  have some of this analytical conscious thought. I think a
• 22:23
  good way to look at this, to understand that there's
• 22:26
  differences between all of these things is to look at
• 22:28
  the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You've got wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel.
• 22:37
  Those are the four that I'm really thinking of. Like
• 22:39
  then piety, fortitude, and fear of the Lord. Those are
• 22:43
  the seven. But the first four is wisdom, knowledge, understanding,
• 22:47
  and col counsel would be along the lines of the
• 22:50
  truths that are revealed, where you have outside help, predominantly
• 22:54
  from God, but you could also, if you count that,
• 22:57
  you could have impure counsel from the knowledge is the
• 23:02
  things that you know, as you were saying, but again
• 23:05
  there are some things you could know that are misled
• 23:08
  by the devil. Wisdom is this understanding of the truth
• 23:15
  and under I don't know the difference between wisdom and understanding,
• 23:19
  but I feel.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Like wisdom would be more about your application of the truth.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Because I think I think in the context that wisdom
• 23:34
  is spoken of, like in the Bible, like Solomon, for instance,
• 23:42
  I think that he was wise in the way that
• 23:44
  he applied the truth to his circumstances. And I think
• 23:48
  that like if I say somebody is a wise person
• 23:50
  in my life, Like if I know somebody who I
• 23:53
  think is wise, I don't think they're wise just because
• 23:56
  like they know things. I think they're wise because I
• 23:59
  see them apply their understanding and their knowledge.
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: Those people are just so lowed.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: It's a very loud whole way.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I see them apply their knowledge and their understanding
• 24:13
  to their circumstances, and I think that's what I would
• 24:16
  think of when I think of wisdom. And then understanding
• 24:21
  doesn't necessarily have to present itself in the form of application.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, like knowledge is I know that one plus
• 24:31
  one is two, But understanding is understanding the concepts of
• 24:36
  quantity and relative and relative weight and whatnot to add
• 24:41
  those things together. Like, there's a lot more depths to
• 24:43
  understanding than knowledge. Knowledge is just a list of facts.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So it could be like knowledge is knowing that three
• 24:48
  times three is nine. Understanding is knowing that three times
• 24:54
  three is nine because you do three three times and
• 24:58
  that's nine. And then wisdom would be saying, if I
• 25:01
  have three apples and three more apples and three more apples,
• 25:05
  that's three times three. And maybe it's like the application
• 25:08
  of it.
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I think that there's different what.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: I think you guys are, You've pretty much got it.
• 25:14
  According to Catholic answers, the gift of wisdom is an
• 25:20
  experience undergone by the heart, and understanding is a view
• 25:24
  taken by the mind.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, that makes sense. And all of these are
• 25:29
  gifts of the Holy spirits. So all of these aspects
• 25:31
  of you know, your thoughts are not your own. Well,
• 25:33
  some of them are gifts of the Holy Spirit, in
• 25:35
  which case you should listen to them.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Here's what I think about that though, Okay, so, and
• 25:41
  I'm gonna just have to keep saying think about so.
• 25:44
  In the case that he was saying, it's probably more
• 25:46
  of he's using a extreme to get a point across,
• 25:51
  but it might be true because he says, all the
• 25:55
  thoughts in your head are not your own, so you
• 25:58
  don't so don't listen to them. But knowledge is information revealed,
• 26:07
  like knowing the information revealed. Wisdom is listening to your
• 26:11
  heart to discern what's good and what's bad. And then
• 26:16
  counsel is the wisdom to know what needs to be
• 26:20
  said for that person to whatever you need to help.
• 26:23
  So I think the point is that none of those
• 26:25
  involve listening to the thoughts that appear in your head,
• 26:29
  but they're all exercising gifts of the heart from the
• 26:33
  Holy Spirit is a better way of putting it, because
• 26:36
  I've been in spiritual direction and he'll ask a question
• 26:40
  and I'll be like, I think, and he goes, don't think.
• 26:43
  What is your heart telling you what should be said?
• 26:46
  And I think that's a different thing than thinking.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: That is yes.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: But it's interesting because I would say, I just said
• 26:55
  I think that's a different thing from thinking. But the
• 26:57
  truth is it is a different thing from things. But
• 27:00
  for some reason, I just I'm so stuck in my
• 27:03
  own mind where I think everything but there's either something
• 27:08
  true or untrue or I'm not sure which is the
• 27:11
  whole Yes that you're yes mean yes, and you know
• 27:14
  me no anything else is from the evil one, and
• 27:16
  I it.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Seems loop, it seems to be thinking.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: The realm of thinking thoughts or or viewing them as
• 27:32
  your own as if as in you have to listen
• 27:34
  to them is a trap.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, So what you're getting at here, there's there's definitely
• 27:42
  something I'm like, there's definitely a truth in what you're
• 27:46
  saying that there are different realms of how you experience,
• 27:49
  and so many of us are because the thought, the thinking,
• 27:54
  is the most recognizable, it's the most it's the loudest
• 28:01
  within us, just naturally speaking from how we as humans act,
• 28:06
  but it is not the only way. So like the
• 28:08
  movements of the heart and all of these other things
• 28:11
  that are coming from the Holy Spirit, are different realms
• 28:16
  of how one expresses who they are to themselves. But
• 28:24
  that is not to say that the thoughts are unimportant.
• 28:29
  What I think is the more important thing to grasp
• 28:31
  is that the thoughts are not the only thing, and
• 28:34
  that you must learn to sometimes set aside those thoughts,
• 28:39
  to let the heart speak forth when necessary, to let
• 28:42
  the heart speak force forth. But you can't just cast
• 28:46
  aside our thoughts, because if we're a thoughtless human just
• 28:50
  living from the movements of the heart. We have no
• 28:55
  real way of interacting with the world around us because
• 28:57
  it is through our thoughts that we can put like,
• 29:02
  we can use our thoughts to look through the movements
• 29:07
  of the hearts and use the hearts to direct the
• 29:11
  thoughts towards that.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: This is what we talked about in the intellectual one
• 29:15
  is using the intellect as a tool for the good
• 29:18
  of the heart.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I think is yeah, we did talk about that, because but.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: That's the intellect. We're talking about thoughts that appear in your.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Head, which we're using. I guess we were using that intellect.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: But I think what But I think the thing is
• 29:32
  the thoughts are different from thinking. The thinking is how
• 29:37
  you process the thoughts.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Thinking, I guess thinking.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And the intellect.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, so thinking would be thinking.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Thinking about thoughts, right, so what what what do you
• 29:52
  mean by a thought?
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: Okay, so then that's so don't listen to them. Don't
• 29:57
  listen to your thoughts, but you can think about them. Yeah, okay,
• 30:01
  that makes sense because that makes more sense to me
• 30:03
  because if you are caught in this the loop, the
• 30:05
  belief that the thoughts that up here in my head
• 30:07
  are mind, then you will believe when you have dark thoughts,
• 30:10
  those are you and those are coming from a truth
• 30:13
  in you. But the reality is that the thoughts are
• 30:15
  not yours, so don't listen to them. Yeah, however, think
• 30:21
  and discern where truth is and then follow truth.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, So that makes.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Sense because if if you are under the like, if
• 30:31
  you view thoughts as who you are, like my thoughts
• 30:33
  are who I am, then when those thoughts are wrong,
• 30:37
  you like I am bad or whatnot. But if you
• 30:39
  understand that thoughts are not who you are, but there's
• 30:42
  different influences from all over the place, yes, it could
• 30:45
  be anything, then you know that the thoughts are not
• 30:49
  who I am. I am who I am right, and
• 30:52
  I can use this this free will, this this consciousness
• 30:57
  to be like I am not a slave to my thoughts. Yes,
• 31:03
  I I think I think we've come to that a
• 31:08
  lot of thoughts right now.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know, do you do you have thoughts?
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: No?
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: No?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: But like we we've we've come to an understanding of
• 31:18
  this idea of thoughts, right. I mean, there's still more
• 31:21
  to discuss and whatnot, but at least not like.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Let's put a on it.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Never know you're wrong.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: This makes no sense, But we we've all come, we've
• 31:34
  all changed how we thought about it to be more
• 31:37
  in line with each other.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Now you have my thoughts, you have my thoughts in
• 31:42
  your head.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Stop you you're an earworm. Okay, we'll come back to
• 31:50
  this discussion in the future.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: But now that we feel like this plays into the
• 31:55
  it does, which is why bring it back.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Let's use this idea of thoughts and how we use
• 32:04
  them to come back to prayer. Let's focus specifically on prayer.
• 32:13
  So what type of prayer do you guys want to
• 32:16
  focus on, Like if we're in the chapel praying or
• 32:21
  more vocal prayers or this or that or the effects
• 32:24
  of prayers? Where do you guys want to go with that?
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: Hmm?
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I think the effects of perfect because I think if
• 32:32
  you say, you know, like vocal prayers versus contemplative prayers,
• 32:36
  like that's a weird kind of because at the end
• 32:40
  of the day, prayers, prayer and it all, okay, leads
• 32:43
  to some kind of effect.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: All right? Then my question is in what way have
• 32:49
  you noticed the effects of prayer in your life? Aka
• 32:53
  if you ask for something and it was received how
• 32:58
  or like something along those lines. My question was a
• 33:03
  lot clearer before the explanations.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So I have kind of an example that maybe answers
• 33:11
  the question. If I'm understanding the question properly, then this
• 33:15
  is good, and then it's it kind of has into
• 33:17
  something else as well. So kind of random. But there
• 33:23
  was one time when I was I was like having
• 33:27
  a really rough time. I texted somebody and I was like,
• 33:34
  I was really wanting them to text back because I
• 33:37
  needed like wisdom in that moment, Like I really wanted
• 33:39
  to hear back because I needed it in that moment.
• 33:43
  And so I went to the chapel with the chapel ICD.
• 33:50
  That's my favorite place to go. Every time I got
• 33:52
  to Adoration, I go to ICD. I don't know why,
• 33:55
  but I was just sitting in the chapel. I was
• 33:57
  there for like forty five minutes, and I was just
• 34:02
  like the whole time, I was like, God, I need
• 34:06
  this right now, like I need something. I wasn't I
• 34:11
  wasn't necessarily saying like I want them to text me
• 34:14
  back while I'm here. I guess it was more like
• 34:18
  I just need this. I need to feel this piece,
• 34:22
  I need this kind of guidance or whatever I'm going
• 34:24
  to get from this message whenever it comes. So I'm
• 34:28
  sitting there for like forty five minutes and then I'm
• 34:30
  kind of like this, there's no point in being here anymore.
• 34:33
  I you know, I just don't feel anything. It's whatever,
• 34:37
  I don't feel better, and I just had this thought.
• 34:42
  I'm gonna call the thought because it's the thing that
• 34:44
  comes into your head. And it was like like the
• 34:48
  words almost give me fifteen minutes and I was just
• 34:52
  like okay, because again, I kind of something I struggle
• 34:56
  with is knowing whether or not the thoughts are my own.
• 34:58
  I'm like, maybe I'm just tricking myself in the thing.
• 35:01
  I hear that whatever, and I'm like, okay, whatever, Like
• 35:07
  I don't have anywhere to go, I'm just gonna sit
• 35:09
  here for fifteen minutes. And then it's like ten minutes
• 35:12
  go by, and I'm like, okay, I still feel exactly
• 35:15
  the same, like nothing has happened exactly though, like I was.
• 35:20
  After ten minutes, I'm like, okay, there's the thought that
• 35:22
  comes into my head and it's like you should just leave,
• 35:25
  like there's no reason to be here anymore. You don't
• 35:27
  feel any different. Everything feels exactly how it did before.
• 35:34
  I'm like, okay, but like five minutes isn't gonna hurt anything.
• 35:38
  I don't have anywhere to go whatever, eleven minutes, twelve minutes,
• 35:44
  thirteen minutes, fourteen minutes, and I kid you not. So
• 35:48
  I got there at like three thirty forty five minutes
• 35:55
  from there would have been four or fifteen, I kid
• 35:59
  you not. At four point thirty, exactly fifteen minutes from
• 36:04
  when I was about to leave, I got the text
• 36:07
  from this person with exactly what I needed to hear
• 36:09
  in that moment, and I was like, that was one
• 36:11
  of the wildest experiences that I've had in terms of
• 36:13
  that because it was again, it wasn't like I was praying,
• 36:18
  I need this wisdom from this person in this moment
• 36:21
  to make them text me back right now, Like I
• 36:24
  wasn't praying for the specific thing, but I was kind
• 36:27
  of just saying, like, Lord, I need something right now.
• 36:33
  And fifteen minutes and even though I really wanted to leave,
• 36:38
  and even though I hear these thoughts coming in my
• 36:40
  head and they're like you should just leave, like there's
• 36:42
  no reason to be hear anymore, I just waited and
• 36:46
  I allowed myself to trust that whatever God wanted to
• 36:52
  happen was gonna happen, and it did, and it like
• 36:58
  what I got from that text really helped me with
• 37:01
  my mindset and everything, and it really helped put me
• 37:03
  in a better place. And so I think what that
• 37:08
  was all distilled down into, because we're talking about like
• 37:13
  how have you felt the effects of prayer? I think
• 37:18
  most of the time I don't realize it until well
• 37:21
  after it's already happened. So like what I was talking
• 37:25
  about when John James were on with the baseball thing,
• 37:29
  and I'm like, why is this happening? And then a
• 37:31
  year later, I'm like, Okay, that's why that happened. So
• 37:34
  you it's not always going to be an immediate thing.
• 37:37
  But I think that if you open your heart and
• 37:43
  you allow yourself to trust, you might not see the
• 37:47
  results immediately. Maybe you will, but you will see the
• 37:51
  results at some point. And so I think that's what
• 37:54
  that's kind of what I was talking about earlier, with
• 37:56
  like there's the voice in our ear that's telling us like,
• 37:58
  don't trust because they're a reason you shouldn't, And that's
• 38:02
  you know, the voice in my head's telling me like
• 38:04
  there's no reason for you to wait here, Like I
• 38:06
  don't know what you're still doing in the chapel. You
• 38:07
  could be going and doing whatever, Like you're not gonna
• 38:11
  get what you're looking for. But when I allowed myself
• 38:15
  to trust, I got exactly what I needed in that moment.
• 38:19
  So and that's happened to me many many times. Not
• 38:24
  in the moment, it might take a while, but I
• 38:30
  the song I was talking about earlier, actually a good day,
• 38:33
  the forest song.
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: And that song, my one like gripe with it is
• 38:37
  that he says, uh, what's the second verse he says?
• 38:45
  He says, like everything I prayed for didn't come in late.
• 38:51
  I have everything I needed and I didn't have to
• 38:53
  wait whatever. And it's like that's a really nice thought,
• 38:55
  and it makes you feel good because you're like, I'm
• 38:58
  praying for these things and it's gonna happen to me.
• 39:00
  It's like I don't have to wait for it and
• 39:01
  I got everything. It's like that's a really nice thought.
• 39:04
  And I love the song, but it's it doesn't that's
• 39:06
  not how it actually works. You're not gonna get it
• 39:09
  in the moment, but you will get it at some
• 39:11
  point if you allow yourself to trust. And we were
• 39:14
  talking about it on the sequee, it's like a seek
• 39:17
  and you shall find if you truly, honestly open your
• 39:21
  heart and actually trust, you will get exactly what you need.
• 39:29
  Not necessarily what you want, because your desires might be
• 39:31
  twisted or whatever, but you will get what you need
• 39:35
  and what you I guess truly desire at the root
• 39:39
  of it. So I mean, again, the effect. It's hard
• 39:42
  to like say but if I could distill it all
• 39:48
  down into one thing, because you can't say, like, I
• 39:52
  felt this effect this time and this time. It's like
• 39:56
  that's not really how it works. It's more of a
• 39:58
  general like do you feel the effect at all? I
• 40:01
  guess my answer to that would be absolutely when I
• 40:05
  allow myself.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Okaylands that was a long thing.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what I got, And that was like
• 40:18
  the perfect answer to how does the effect take? Well,
• 40:21
  he has something that was like I prayed for something
• 40:22
  and I got it, and like here's why I got it,
• 40:25
  and I understand that.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: And I think the other important thing with that I'll
• 40:28
  stop talking after this is that again I wasn't It's
• 40:32
  okay to pray for specific things, but you don't always
• 40:37
  know what you need. So you might say I feel
• 40:42
  like I need this bit of advice from this person,
• 40:46
  but God knows you need something different. Maybe it's still
• 40:49
  from that person, but God knows that you need something
• 40:52
  different in that moment. So again, I in that moment,
• 40:56
  I wasn't trying to be like I want this exact
• 40:58
  specific thing to happen happen.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: It was like.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: What I want you to show me, Like I want
• 41:07
  you to give me what I need and what you
• 41:08
  want me to have in this moment.
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: And then I got that, and so it's okay.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: It's like you can pray for specific things obviously, yeah,
• 41:16
  but I think generally you will see I think you'll
• 41:21
  see the impact more if you allow yourself to be
• 41:24
  more open to what God has for you instead of what.
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: You want for yourself. And that's the last thing I'll say,
• 41:29
  and I'll let you guys.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Talk know, so like on that before you answer the
• 41:32
  question about like praying for something. And because prayer is
• 41:40
  a like a relationship with God, it is both people.
• 41:46
  So when people say, oh, you shouldn't just pray for
• 41:49
  something directly, it's like, well, I am who I am,
• 41:53
  And so a good way of doing it is to say,
• 41:56
  you know, Lord, I really want this, like I you'll like,
• 42:00
  this is really important to me, like this, like if
• 42:03
  it is your will, like this would this to me
• 42:05
  seems like what I need right now, but not my
• 42:10
  will but yours. And so just because you have to
• 42:13
  bring did it turn off? It just it just got darker.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: That would be really unfortunate if it like just a second, yeah,
• 42:25
  tap it and see if you.
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: Did it stop? It stopped.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: But I saw it get darker. So I don't think
• 42:33
  it's been long.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, there might be a little bit in there and
• 42:38
  it is going yeah, yeah, okay, it might have been
• 42:41
  like thirty minutes, but no, we had the beginning and
• 42:47
  some people's okay, it's fine, okay.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: So you know, you got to bring what you have
• 42:55
  to prayer. Like it's not just a you just like
• 42:59
  set up a flag or like a something to catch
• 43:04
  and just like set it out there and then just
• 43:06
  watch as Jesus put stuff in there. You got to
• 43:08
  put yourself out there. You don't just set out a
• 43:11
  basket to catch Jesus's things. You set out yourself and
• 43:14
  your heart, which includes all of these influences. You know,
• 43:17
  for for instance, like if you're thinking's like oh, you
• 43:21
  know there's this really cute girl and I really want
• 43:23
  to know she likes me that so just like which
• 43:26
  instead of saying, Lord, make her able to like share
• 43:31
  that with me, or like make her like me or something, No,
• 43:34
  say Lord, I like really feel feelings for this girl,
• 43:37
  and I want this to become a thing. And to
• 43:43
  recognize that that is a want, not a need, and
• 43:47
  to know that you can shift your wants, and to
• 43:49
  understand the different influences of those ones, like especially the
• 43:52
  thoughts that come because a lot of the things to
• 43:55
  do with say, emotions and girls is thoughts that come
• 43:58
  and pop into your mind that they might not be
• 43:59
  from you. Yeah, so that's what I think.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: And you may have talked about this a lot where
• 44:04
  it's like your desires are all at the root. Your
• 44:08
  desires are good, and your desires are put there by God.
• 44:12
  So if your heart is longing for something, that's for
• 44:14
  a reason. And so maybe the thing that you want
• 44:19
  isn't what's going to satisfy that desire, but there is
• 44:21
  something that will satisfy that desire.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: And by naming that desire, you can name the desire.
• 44:27
  Praying to God like heal this desire. This is how
• 44:30
  I think you should do it, but I know that's
• 44:32
  not how you're gonna do it.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can say, like, if there's this cute girl
• 44:36
  that Nick's really into, he could be like, Lord, I'm
• 44:40
  really into this girl.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Please help her to listen to our next podcast and
• 44:45
  I will bring this up.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Two year old women.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: That's our biggest brown hair.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: There's a girl out there for Nick something. But like
• 44:54
  if you're if you say it instead of saying, if
• 44:57
  she likes me, then I want her to come up
• 45:00
  with you know, this love letter that she hand wrote
• 45:02
  and like a bag of candy and say Nick, I'm
• 45:04
  in love with you. Like you could say that that's
• 45:06
  probably not gonna happen. But if instead, like you're saying,
• 45:10
  you say, Lord, I have this desire. I know that
• 45:13
  you gave me this desire, and I trust you to
• 45:16
  satisfy this desire in the best way for me, in
• 45:20
  the way that you know is best for me. And
• 45:22
  you can say I would love for it to be
• 45:24
  this girl, but thy will be done. Even in the
• 45:29
  garden before the Crucifixion, Jesus is saying, Father, let this
• 45:34
  cut pass for me. He's saying, like, this is this
• 45:36
  is the thing that I because he's God, but he's
• 45:39
  also he was fully God and fully mad, so it's
• 45:42
  like he has human desires as well as he has
• 45:45
  two natures. And he says, let this cut pass from me,
• 45:49
  but thy will be done, and he's saying, this is
• 45:51
  what I want. But even though this is what I want,
• 45:55
  you do what you know is best. So bring your
• 45:59
  desire to God, but don't expect him to satisfy them
• 46:05
  in the exact way that you want them to be sized.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: As part of that diservice is to understand what these
• 46:10
  desires are coming from. What are you hungering for us, Like,
• 46:12
  if it's this cute girl or whatnot, you're hungering for
• 46:16
  someone to love you and care for you and to
• 46:19
  be noticed. And maybe God lands that by allowing you
• 46:23
  to feel his love and his care for you, and
• 46:26
  then you realize, oh, I don't want a girlfriend. I
• 46:30
  want someone to love me, and God loves me. And
• 46:32
  if to realize that, that can be a lot of
• 46:34
  consolation and peace.
• 46:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that, I think
• 46:40
  because ultimately the point of prayer is to have a
• 46:42
  relationship with God, and so if we view prayer as.
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: A transaction, then there's no relationship, so there's nothing. Even
• 46:51
  if you're looking for healing from some wound that you have,
• 46:56
  or you are reading your Bible or learning about theology,
• 47:01
  none of it is to get something.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: None of it should be other than.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: To grow deeper in a relationship with God instead of
• 47:11
  But I think we kind of get trapped in Okay,
• 47:13
  I'm going to pray for this and I'll get the
• 47:15
  stuff that I want that I need, and I'm gonna
• 47:18
  learn theology because i want to have the right answers
• 47:20
  when people ask me. And it's really a fine line,
• 47:22
  but really I think exactly what you guys are talking about.
• 47:26
  I've heard prayer described as by someone that has to
• 47:30
  do with the theology of the body. I cannot remember
• 47:32
  who it is, But prayer is becoming a longing for God.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: So it's like the question that Jesus asks asks what
• 47:40
  are you looking for?
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: Those that right there is the doorway into a life
• 47:45
  of prayer. As weird as that may seem on for
• 47:49
  anyone who's not religious or never heard that, but really
• 47:53
  that I think is because He'll work with your desires
• 47:57
  and so you can follow, you can find your to
• 48:00
  Him through them.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: In some sense.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: But ultimately, any amount of gift of another person or
• 48:07
  experience of love from another person is to draw you
• 48:10
  into a relationship with God ultimately, because that's what we're
• 48:13
  destined for. And so you just experience Him in ways
• 48:20
  in this human life through other people, because that's a
• 48:22
  more beautiful version of love, is the communion of saints
• 48:26
  and the communion of people and relationships, and that's where
• 48:29
  you learn, and that's where I guess you learn how
• 48:33
  it transitions into ultimately a relationship with God. So then
• 48:36
  prayer is just going through that process and communicating with
• 48:42
  God through your heart, through your words, through your actions.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: So through that, are you like saying that prayer isn't
• 48:50
  exactly an activity but an experience or is it an
• 48:54
  activity to experience?
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: I would say.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: It depends on your definition of prayer. But in the
• 49:08
  in the sense that I'm using it, prayer is it's
• 49:14
  jumping on the boat of the Holy Spirit and riding
• 49:17
  it to Jesus's heart and then him jumping on the
• 49:21
  boat and riding it to your heart, and it's that communication.
• 49:25
  But then in a practical sense, I would say prayer
• 49:28
  is an activity where you have to go and you
• 49:30
  sit or you stand and you walk and you look
• 49:34
  into your heart, and it's a it's a self reflection,
• 49:38
  it's a rest, and it's a communication.
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: Right m hm, So just like a regular relationship.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: So with that, what effects have you noticed from your prayer?
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, the original question, I forgot that question.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I brought it back.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: And you don't have to be deep as deep and
• 50:06
  like awesome as Michael's was.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: I know how I'm supposed to follow that one up.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Maybe rephrase the question a little bit and say it
• 50:13
  instead of like, how have you just say it?
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: Have you okay?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Because I think again, it's not like the thing where
• 50:20
  you can be like I felt it this way this
• 50:23
  time and this way this time. You could say that,
• 50:26
  but in a more general sense, I feel like that's
• 50:29
  kind of more.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Have you felt the effects of your prayer.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Without a doubt? Yes?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Any ways you could clarify.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Yes, Primarily.
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: It would be a deeper connection with what's real. So
• 50:52
  so the biggest change for me was for years it
• 50:56
  was kind of like everywhere I went there was so
• 50:59
  much noise and confusion and sort of from one thing
• 51:04
  to the next, the cliche life of a human person,
• 51:09
  And that was pretty miserable, and then when I started
• 51:15
  trying to pray, I thought it was just another one
• 51:17
  of those things that you go from one thing to
• 51:19
  the next, but this one's going to give me more
• 51:21
  of what I want, and so it is transactional. Still,
• 51:27
  it wasn't until I started getting into the healing process
• 51:33
  and spiritual direction and really theology the body in Christopher
• 51:37
  West was huge for understanding how prayer is really meant
• 51:43
  to be me being open, vulnerable and naked to God
• 51:49
  and then experiencing His love in all of those areas,
• 51:54
  in all of my nakedness and all of my vulnerability,
• 51:57
  in the ways that I fall, ways I succeed, and
• 52:01
  the things I think, in the ways I view the world.
• 52:06
  Just learning to open up my heart to a deeper
• 52:10
  sense of reality than what is immediately sensible, and then
• 52:15
  that actually gives me a deeper sense of the things
• 52:18
  that are immediately sensible as being more real consistent. I
• 52:23
  don't feel so anxious, I don't feel like I'm walking.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Through a haze all the time. And that really came.
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: From going on that journey really of things becoming more real.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: But it takes time.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: And there was a way that you described it earlier
• 52:41
  was when you experienced God, it was like peace, but
• 52:46
  peace is I think what I was kind of thinking
• 52:49
  was quiet, so it was like the restlessness ceased. Those
• 52:53
  are really moments when things feel the most real. Is
• 52:56
  even if it's just right now, If I have a
• 52:59
  sense that the restlessness has ceased, like I don't have
• 53:03
  a like a constant stream of something going on or
• 53:06
  there's it's like there's something waiting behind me to get
• 53:09
  me or whatever it is, then I feel God's presence,
• 53:15
  and I think an awareness of that and an intentional
• 53:19
  communication with that spirit is prayer, and the ways that
• 53:25
  I experience it is in those kinds of ways.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I don't know if we want to make
• 53:36
  this the last thing or not, but I do I
• 53:38
  want to ask this just to see what you guys
• 53:39
  think about it. Do you know who Alex O'Connor is,
• 53:44
  A is a YouTuber atheist YouTuber. Yeah, so his big
• 53:48
  problem with God and God existing in the first place
• 53:55
  is divine hiddenness. And so if you had to talk
• 53:59
  to something like Alex O'Connor, who is saying I don't
• 54:07
  believe God is real because I feel like I don't
• 54:10
  hear him and I don't experience him, and no matter
• 54:13
  how much I pray, I don't hear his voice. And
• 54:16
  I have not had an experience of God the way
• 54:20
  that other people claim to.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: I heard that.
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: So what would you say to that?
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: I answer to that question. But also I'm also gonna
• 54:27
  through this answer the question beforehand because I never answered
• 54:29
  myself and I felt bad making you guys do that.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: But yea, sorry, I shouldn't cut you off.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: I should no, no, totally, because that's actually good question. I'm
• 54:36
  going to bring it into this one. So yeah, like
• 54:39
  last week, I was spent hours working homework. It was rough,
• 54:43
  I wasn't really figuring it out, and I ended up
• 54:45
  just like submitting an incomplete homework like I know there's
• 54:49
  gonna be problems with it, and just through that, I
• 54:51
  just pushed my brain so much it was like my
• 54:53
  head was hurting and it was painful. And but you know,
• 54:57
  Wednesday nights there's adorations at our Newman Center, and so
• 55:00
  I was like, okay, we'll go to adoration and just
• 55:02
  like sit there and have peace, you know. And then
• 55:07
  you know, I got there and made sure I ate
• 55:09
  beforehand because I might have been hungry.
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: And then effects you know, the thoughts are crossing my mind.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: You don't want the food demons to come in.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Exactly, you're hungry, I think.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: But like then I went into adoration, and you know,
• 55:24
  like I had it like a headache. I couldn't really focus.
• 55:26
  I was like, okay, well I'm not going to pay
• 55:28
  my rogarie because I need to be able to focus
• 55:30
  to do that better. And so then I was just
• 55:32
  like I was like, Lord, help me focus, like quiet
• 55:37
  my mind, quiet my thoughts or whatnot, and nothing happened,
• 55:40
  like throughout the whole I was there. After a time,
• 55:43
  I'm like, okay, maybe i'll pray the rosi and hopefully
• 55:46
  that'll help calm my mind. And then that didn't, and
• 55:49
  so like throughout the course, I stay there and I'm like, okay,
• 55:51
  maybe if I say a bit longer, I can hopefully eventually,
• 55:54
  and then I'm like I'm pushing it and maybe I'm
• 55:56
  just trying to be too intellectuals, like if I do this,
• 55:59
  I will feel better, and it never actually worked. I
• 56:02
  ended up just being like, Okay, this isn't really going much.
• 56:06
  So I'm just like I'm gonna go home and make
• 56:09
  sure I get good night's rest and hopefully that will help.
• 56:13
  And so I just like I never really felt anything
• 56:15
  from that, and so like you know, you don't necessarily
• 56:18
  feel the effects of God, but I have seen the
• 56:21
  effects of prayer in my life. But again, like you
• 56:24
  were saying, this is something that happens afterwards looking back,
• 56:28
  because in my youth, I was terrified of some things,
• 56:32
  Like you know, I watched Doctor Who all the Doctor
• 56:35
  Who monswers. There were a ton of terrifying ones, like
• 56:38
  there's one where this's like it's just a shadow, but
• 56:40
  it eats you alive. And so like I would be upstairs,
• 56:44
  my room was downstairs. What I did was I went
• 56:48
  to the staircase light, turned it on, went back, turned
• 56:51
  off the living room light when downstairs, turned on the
• 56:53
  atrium lights, turned off the stairlight, went into my room,
• 56:58
  turned on the light, turned off the light. It's just
• 57:01
  like and then when I'm in my room, I'm like,
• 57:03
  I don't know what to do, turned off the line
• 57:05
  and rushed to my bed. And it was terrifying, and
• 57:08
  so many things like this. But it was like I
• 57:10
  was just scared of things like holes for some reason
• 57:13
  was a terrifying thing, or there was one movie like Trimmers,
• 57:16
  where there's like giant worms that come out like I'm
• 57:18
  safe in our house because there's concrete underneath us, and
• 57:21
  I was terrified. But then I realize, like, I have
• 57:25
  nothing like that. Now. There's nothing like visceral that I
• 57:28
  am afraid of physically in that same way, it's like
• 57:33
  I'm not afraid that the dark. I'm not afraid of,
• 57:35
  you know, random statues that might come to life or whatnot.
• 57:39
  And I realized this is because roughly around eighth grade,
• 57:43
  I had my confirmation and as a gift from the
• 57:47
  confirmation from my grandparents or family or whatnot, I got
• 57:51
  one a little rosary box and two this Bible. I
• 57:56
  got it for confirmation. And after that I was like,
• 57:59
  you know, I got these things, I might as well
• 58:01
  because I had some rosaries. I'm like, I might as
• 58:02
  well just pray Rosarie every day and read the Bible
• 58:05
  every day. And I could go into like the how
• 58:10
  that has gone throughout the whatnot, But like, I'm fully
• 58:15
  convinced that my praying the Rosarie then, and like making
• 58:19
  that a regular commitment to have a regular prayer life,
• 58:22
  that's more than just blessed, more than the aimin to
• 58:27
  have something regular prayer life because I have not those
• 58:31
  fears that I once feared. I feel stronger, I feel
• 58:34
  confident through that. You know, I've struggled with types of
• 58:39
  anxiety throughout my life, not as insane as some people,
• 58:41
  but like you know, social anxiety and whatnot, that there's
• 58:44
  a lot less of that now than it was when
• 58:46
  I was younger. And like, well, I've had a regular
• 58:50
  prayer life and that has helped me through these things
• 58:52
  because I've brought those anxieties and whatnot to prayer. And
• 58:56
  like last week when nothing happened, I'm like, uh, maybe
• 59:00
  God is moving more slowly in my heart and not
• 59:02
  being like boom, you feel better because I was just
• 59:06
  so caught up in but I posted I submitted bad
• 59:08
  homework like I'm horrible, I even good at physics and
• 59:11
  blah blah blah blah, and it was so caught up
• 59:13
  in myself. But maybe He's moving more slowly in my
• 59:16
  life to slowly bring me to understand that it doesn't
• 59:19
  really matter the quality of the homework I submit, but
• 59:24
  the quality of the learning that I undergo through my education.
• 59:28
  And hopefully, hopefully I pray that I may become less
• 59:34
  focused on Oh man, I need to make sure I
• 59:36
  have the good grades versus this, but to just really understand,
• 59:39
  like why is it that I am learning? And what
• 59:41
  do I want from this? And so, like I would
• 59:44
  say to alex Licana, is like, no, you quite possibly
• 59:48
  don't hear anything because you have so many thoughts going
• 59:52
  through your mind that there is no way for you
• 59:54
  to be able to understand where God is speaking to you,
• 59:57
  because He hasn't given you the gift of clarity some
• 1:00:00
  people he gives a gift of clarity. Is just like,
• 1:00:02
  you have all this chaos, and then God's just like
• 1:00:04
  I am here and you know it, but He hasn't
• 1:00:07
  given you that gift. And so how can you say
• 1:00:10
  that as proof that there is no God? If you
• 1:00:13
  have all of these influences in your mind, all of
• 1:00:16
  these thoughts that come at you from many different directions,
• 1:00:18
  How can that be a proof against God? If you're
• 1:00:21
  not even gonna allow the fact that maybe God is
• 1:00:23
  just speaking to you through some of those And it
• 1:00:27
  takes work and struggle and pain and suffering to be
• 1:00:31
  able to catch a glimmer of what God is hoping
• 1:00:34
  you to hear and then do you realize how much
• 1:00:37
  he has helped you throughout the years. Like it's a process,
• 1:00:40
  it's a struggle, and that's and at the end of
• 1:00:43
  it all, it's just a faith. And we can talk
• 1:00:47
  a lot about faith. It's not just like a blindness,
• 1:00:50
  but like faith and trust. And we've talked about trust
• 1:00:52
  a lot. If you come to trust, things will happen.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe not immediately, I don't know, almost definitely not immediately.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I trust that I will fly off this chair right
• 1:01:06
  now and hover in holiness and blah.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: You know, you would be the one of us to
• 1:01:10
  do it.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: I think about it too much that it's definitely not
• 1:01:13
  a gift. I'm going to get Fulton.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: If I'm Alex O'Connor, will you tell me, well, that
• 1:01:20
  was really.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: That was really interesting because it is a very good
• 1:01:25
  point that that was just a very good story.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: That's tracted.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Nick's putting thoughts in her If you.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: Physics, If you were Alex O'Connor, I would say, hopefully
• 1:02:01
  I was going after Nick and Michael, and I would
• 1:02:06
  say thinking has done a lot of good. Thinking has
• 1:02:19
  done a lot of bad. Real prayer has done a
• 1:02:25
  lot a lot of good. The prayer that it's that, well,
• 1:02:35
  that's tough because I feel like when when you're if
• 1:02:38
  I was actually gonna talk to him, it's like I'd
• 1:02:40
  have to have the most perfectly formulated sentence to get
• 1:02:43
  the point across. But ultimately it comes down to.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: We are all born into a world that has fallen.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: As you grow up, you experience wounds, and then you
• 1:03:00
  form beliefs, and then you put up walls and you
• 1:03:03
  make vows, and then to deal with that, this existential
• 1:03:08
  crisis that we all come face to face with, the
• 1:03:12
  common move is to try to control and to try
• 1:03:16
  to understand, because then you get it and you control
• 1:03:20
  it and you have something and you know what to
• 1:03:22
  do with it. But ultimately, if you want to experience prayer,
• 1:03:32
  if you man, I wish I really knew what to say, but.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know what to say.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: I would just say if you listen to stories of
• 1:03:46
  people who really pray and the sort of people that
• 1:03:49
  come out of that, and then if you know the.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: History of.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: This faith and you know the reality that there is
• 1:03:57
  a God who loves us, and there is a world
• 1:04:00
  that clearly inevitably falls apart and dissipates into nothing, and
• 1:04:08
  there's only one person.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: That says.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: That he is the way, the truth in life. If
• 1:04:20
  you can't accept that he's real, I mean, just ask,
• 1:04:25
  but don't ask so that you can discount it and
• 1:04:28
  say I asked, but just ask. I don't think there
• 1:04:32
  is anyone on this earth that if they just sat
• 1:04:37
  and said, Okay, I don't believe in God. I don't
• 1:04:40
  think it's real. I tried prayer, It doesn't help. This
• 1:04:42
  doesn't work. But if you said, God, if you're up there, Jesus,
• 1:04:48
  if you are there, if you are real, please.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: Grant me the gift.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: I ask for the gift of complete and total faith
• 1:05:01
  and trust in you. And I want to experience you
• 1:05:05
  in my life and I will sacrifice everything that I
• 1:05:08
  have to if you are who you say you are,
• 1:05:14
  and you are not the conception that I have of
• 1:05:19
  you right now because I don't trust you. I don't
• 1:05:21
  think you're real. I don't think you're nice. I think
• 1:05:24
  your people suck. I think this, I think that, I
• 1:05:26
  think whatever. I think. If there is a God who
• 1:05:28
  is totally good and totally loves me, I want to
• 1:05:32
  know that God. And if you're real, then I want
• 1:05:36
  to know you. And I ask for the gift, show
• 1:05:39
  me in my life, how you are there the source
• 1:05:43
  of love and the source of beauty in Jesus. And
• 1:05:47
  I feel like if you ask that, well, first of all,
• 1:05:49
  that's prayer. If you ask that thought, yeah, yeah, check
• 1:05:56
  me if you really ask that, I mean, who wants
• 1:06:01
  to ask that? That's what he tells, That's what he
• 1:06:03
  asks us to ask. So so you've got nothing to
• 1:06:08
  lose except for.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: Except for your life.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: Like, you've got nothing to lose except for your life,
• 1:06:19
  but you're already going to lose it. So what about
• 1:06:22
  a life that lasts forever that he can give you, you know,
• 1:06:27
  a real, true life forever in love. That's what the
• 1:06:32
  promise is. That's what everyone is dying for all of
• 1:06:36
  these years. That's what everyone is trying to get at.
• 1:06:38
  And we all fall and we all suck at being perfect.
• 1:06:42
  But that is not the problem. The problem is we
• 1:06:46
  don't realize and we don't trust that God really loves us.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: Heck yeah, if you think prayer is just saying words
• 1:06:58
  to some deity to get what you want, but that
• 1:07:01
  is not going to go well for you because you're
• 1:07:03
  praying to the wrong.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: Person.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: Right, So I would say, just ask a clear, precise
• 1:07:13
  question and ask for a gift, and ask for it.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: Seek and then knock. And it's like you will find
• 1:07:26
  an answer, but it.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: May not be the one you think it is.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm gonna add one more thing to that, because
• 1:07:39
  i don't remember who it was that said it. But
• 1:07:41
  the thing that separates Christianity from every other religion is
• 1:07:49
  that every other religion, and even atheism, by the extension,
• 1:07:55
  I guess, is the result of man's search for God,
• 1:08:00
  and Christianity is the result of God's search for man,
• 1:08:06
  and that the entire claim of the Christian faith is
• 1:08:13
  that God so loved the world they sent his only
• 1:08:17
  son to die on a cross for us. And like,
• 1:08:23
  I don't I don't want to make assumptions about people's
• 1:08:27
  heart posture, or about whether or not they're open or
• 1:08:31
  closed or whatever. Because he says, like I'm a non resistant,
• 1:08:35
  non believer. It's like I'm open to it. Like if
• 1:08:37
  the bearded man in the sky shows up, I have
• 1:08:39
  no problems. I think that was Neil deGrasse Tyson said that.
• 1:08:42
  But they're like if the bearded man the sky shows
• 1:08:44
  up one day and he presents himself and I have
• 1:08:46
  no problems with it, but like, I don't believe that
• 1:08:49
  he's real. But the question that I would have for
• 1:08:55
  these people, I would say, you're searching for God. You're
• 1:09:01
  seeking God, You're trying, you're grasping for him. You're trying
• 1:09:10
  so hard by your own power to access something that
• 1:09:15
  is completely inaccessible to you, like like on your own power,
• 1:09:19
  Like you can't do anything on your own that could
• 1:09:26
  possibly deserve access to Him. And so you're trying so hard,
• 1:09:30
  and you have all these different arguments, and you get
• 1:09:33
  a theology degree and you do all these things, and
• 1:09:35
  you're like, I'm doing everything in my power to find God.
• 1:09:41
  But in that I would ask, are you allowing Him
• 1:09:51
  to seek you out? Like you can do whatever you
• 1:09:54
  want to try and find him. But if you aren't
• 1:09:59
  open to him and he presents himself or you like
• 1:10:02
  you might not be doing anything and He comes for you.
• 1:10:05
  And if you're not open to that, like you you
• 1:10:08
  could not possibly do anything to deserve even a glimpse
• 1:10:13
  of the face of God, like completely honestly there none
• 1:10:17
  of us will ever deserve it, even a glimpse. And
• 1:10:21
  so if you spend your entire life just trying to
• 1:10:24
  find him and being like, I can figure this out
• 1:10:27
  and I can find you if I look hard enough.
• 1:10:29
  It's like I you should seek, yes, but if you seek,
• 1:10:34
  you're not going to find anything if you're not open
• 1:10:35
  to it when it presents itself. And so I would say, sure, yes,
• 1:10:40
  obviously seek, but allow yourself to be found at the
• 1:10:44
  same time, because I don't know. Again, I don't like
• 1:10:49
  making judgments about people's internal situation. I don't know how
• 1:10:54
  it feels about it. But man, the times when I
• 1:11:01
  think I can figure it out or when I'm at
• 1:11:03
  my absolute worst, I will say that much. And like
• 1:11:06
  I said, when I start to actually understand and figure
• 1:11:10
  things out and things start to fall into place, it's
• 1:11:12
  when I let go and I allow God to take
• 1:11:15
  control of it. So yeah, I would just say seek
• 1:11:23
  and let yourself be found. Be the wild.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is making me think of so many things.
• 1:11:29
  I don't want to hold you guys too long.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: There's been like five times where I was like, I
• 1:11:34
  want to go off on a tangent that would last
• 1:11:35
  like three hours and we could have a whole nother conversation.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Make sure you remember those and put the into our list.
• 1:11:40
  So that we can have it in the future. Yeah,
• 1:11:42
  but any final thoughts on this topic of prayer and
• 1:11:46
  God's presence, Yes, oh yeah, I want to hear.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: So the fundamental claim of Christianity is that God wants
• 1:11:55
  a relationship with us, and that has been the story
• 1:11:58
  of the entire Bible and the reason Jesus became man,
• 1:12:03
  because it wasn't plan be that he became man. It
• 1:12:06
  was always going to be that God would become flesh,
• 1:12:08
  that we could be united with the Trinity. That's the
• 1:12:11
  whole point of us having bodies and having flesh. So
• 1:12:13
  that's been the whole story, then, the whole pose of Christianity,
• 1:12:17
  The main message is that God wants a relationship with us.
• 1:12:21
  Like we talked earlier, the one thing that can damage
• 1:12:25
  an entire relationship is trust. So the first thing the
• 1:12:29
  devil goes after, for the story that we've had for
• 1:12:33
  years and years and years has been was to destroy
• 1:12:40
  the trust in God, in God's love. So ultimately what
• 1:12:46
  this comes down to is we just don't trust that
• 1:12:49
  God's real, We don't trust that God loves us, and
• 1:12:52
  we have wounds in our heart that rightfully, so we've
• 1:12:57
  put walls up around and So the only way that
• 1:13:00
  we can have a relationship is if we regain that trust.
• 1:13:04
  But you can't force yourself to trust somebody, but you
• 1:13:07
  have to give them a chance to prove that they
• 1:13:10
  are trustworthy. But it takes a vulnerability, and it takes
• 1:13:13
  his sincerity, it takes character, integrity, it takes an awareness
• 1:13:17
  of your heart, and it takes humility, and it takes time.
• 1:13:22
  And so I like what you said, ask or seek,
• 1:13:25
  but allow yourself to be found. Is it really comes
• 1:13:27
  down to we have to learn to trust that Jesus
• 1:13:31
  loves us and he is coming to us, and he
• 1:13:34
  has done that over and over and over. And something
• 1:13:37
  that I realize a few days ago, maybe I've heard
• 1:13:40
  of when I was younger, But if you look at
• 1:13:43
  the picture of the divine mercy, which is Jesus's divine mercy,
• 1:13:49
  the pouring out of his blood and water from his heart,
• 1:13:53
  which signifies complete total forgiveness and mercy and love for us,
• 1:13:58
  that he will die over and over like every hero
• 1:14:01
  in every movie, every father, every good father for his kids,
• 1:14:05
  all of that that's all encapsulated in his love for us.
• 1:14:08
  And he wants a deep and intimate relationship with us
• 1:14:11
  that we can really experience. And in the image of
• 1:14:14
  the divine mercy, his feet, his left foot is in
• 1:14:17
  front of his other foot because he's walking towards us.
• 1:14:21
  So he's not standing there waiting for us to get there.
• 1:14:25
  He is walking towards us. So every icon is a
• 1:14:28
  slice of the future and the present and the past.
• 1:14:32
  This is what he's doing all the time, is walking
• 1:14:34
  towards us with mercy. And the only thing that we've
• 1:14:38
  got a problem with right now is that we just
• 1:14:40
  don't trust him. There's everything else that's telling us, here's
• 1:14:44
  the reason why not to Here's he does this, he
• 1:14:47
  does that, He's not real.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: This is a better option. This is reality.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: You can trust science, you can trust objectivity, you can
• 1:14:53
  trust rationality. What it all comes down to is we
• 1:14:56
  don't trust the person of Jesus and the person God
• 1:15:00
  and the person of.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: The Holy Spirit to love us.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: And so I think going back to the to what
• 1:15:07
  I was saying earlier, I would just pay attention to
• 1:15:10
  that what wounds happened? Why don't you trust what does
• 1:15:13
  seem unbelievable. That's the hole, that's the main wall that's
• 1:15:20
  blocking us, And that's the main wall. He wants you
• 1:15:23
  to invite him to come stand next to He's not
• 1:15:27
  going to kick it down, he's not going to force
• 1:15:29
  it open. He respects your ability to choose and the
• 1:15:33
  walls that you've put up are up there to protect
• 1:15:34
  you for a reason. But you can't invite him into that.
• 1:15:37
  And that's a real experience, and.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: You have that in prayer.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 5: So I would say, in summary, is there the summary?
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: Jesus is walking towards us, and he loves us, but
• 1:15:51
  he understands we don't trust him.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: You can go to him with that.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I think that's a great way to just
• 1:15:59
  like I have this whole time.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: Do you I mean, if you have I already said
• 1:16:05
  everything I have to say, well, not all of it,
• 1:16:06
  but we'll say that for another time.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: Well, next week it is going to be the start
• 1:16:12
  of Lynt when it comes out. Little have already started
• 1:16:15
  and so we'll be discussing things about Lynt, like why
• 1:16:19
  do we do what we do in Lynt? I don't
• 1:16:20
  know yet. I guess we'll figure that out next week,
• 1:16:24
  but it's someone that does.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: To figure it out, and you will find out next
• 1:16:27
  week if you listen next week.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: If you want to know you must actually listen, and
• 1:16:35
  you will.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: And listen to the spire.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's how you'll find Christ. I really hope so,
• 1:16:43
  because that'd be a beautiful gift to you if we're
• 1:16:48
  able to be God's hands on earth. So be it. Voices, voices, voices, Yeah,
• 1:16:56
  all right, you want? Does this in prayer? Michael sure?
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: My name of Father and Son, Holy Spirit. Lord, thank
• 1:17:08
  you for this time together. Thank you for these amazing
• 1:17:13
  men that I get to do this podcast with, and
• 1:17:17
  thank you for everybody that's listening right now, that has
• 1:17:20
  listened in the past, that will listen to the future,
• 1:17:24
  and those who will never hear a second of this
• 1:17:28
  podcast as well. I ask that you give us all
• 1:17:32
  the grace to open our hearts and to trust the
• 1:17:38
  plan that you have for us, to set aside our
• 1:17:44
  worries and our stress and our anxieties, and to break
• 1:17:50
  down any walls that we have that are preventing us
• 1:17:52
  from surrendering our hearts to you, to trust you fully
• 1:18:00
  we as we blessed Mother, Hail Mary, full of grace
• 1:18:03
  the Lord would have been. Let's start that among women
• 1:18:06
  and Holy Marry Mother of God. Pray for us sinners
• 1:18:11
  now with our death man, Father's Sons in the.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Spirit to the next time to hear depression. No, that's
• 1:18:20
  not the point of purpose.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Events we've already been went for like a solid thirty
• 1:18:24
  days man.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, all right, peace out, peace