Latest / The Curve / Balancing family & career when life doesn't go according to plan, with Amy Fraser (from the archives).

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Balancing family & career when life doesn't go according to plan, with Amy Fraser (from the archives). · The Curve

• 0:00
  Hi, and welcome to the inside of my Lexus, and when I say my Lexus, I can't lie, this
• 0:07
  isn't actually mine, but I've been driving it for the last five weeks, and I can tell you
• 0:11
  that it has been the most magical time. Now look, for anyone who has listened to this
• 0:18
  podcast or followed the curve for a while, you will know, my history with cars has been
• 0:23
  checkered, let's just say, I am not the most amazing driver, I'm not normally someone that really
• 0:31
  values cars, but it is just so beautiful. It's a really interesting thing to think about when it
• 0:37
  comes like investing in a car, right? Like you don't want to buy something that's going to break
• 0:41
  down tomorrow, but you also, yeah, I guess it's just you want to buy a car that is a long-term
• 0:47
  investment, and what I've realised is Lexus is a long-term investment, just like you think about,
• 0:53
  you know, your stocks and wanting to pick something that's going to last the test of time that's
• 0:58
  going to stay with you, you know, for your life, really, you don't want to be buying and selling
• 1:04
  and buying and selling, and it's just the same when it comes to cars, you want to buy quality,
• 1:08
  and for me, now I've been in the Lexus, I want to buy luxury, so we have partnered with Lexus
• 1:14
  to come up with a, it's a how-to guide, how to get yourself in a position where you are actually
• 1:20
  working towards buying a big ticket item like a Lexus because it's not the kind of thing you can
• 1:24
  just wake up and buy. It's not exactly an impulse purchase, like an online shopping situation, so
• 1:29
  we would like to say thank you so much to Lexus for empowering this podcast. We would like to say,
• 1:35
  well, we, I would like to say thank you for letting me drive around New Zealand and this beautiful
• 1:40
  car and just feel confident and chic and slick and I'm going to miss it a lot. So for anyone that would
• 1:47
  like to save towards a big ticket item, you can find the link in the podcast show notes.
• 1:53
  Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know
• 1:57
  to be better with your money. Come and learn alongside me, so if you're all right, a total beginner
• 2:01
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• 2:06
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• 2:11
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• 2:15
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• 2:21
  Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the curve.
• 2:27
  Today's episode is one from the archives. Back in the day when we were, I was going to say
• 2:34
  broadcasting when we were recording out of experience. This conversation was one that has stuck with
• 2:39
  me for, well, ever since we had it, there was so many things that Amy spoke about that I was just like,
• 2:46
  oh gosh, like the way you articulated that, the way that you've thought about it, her eloquence
• 2:52
  and the way that she speaks about motherhood and mum guilt and the need for support for mums trying
• 3:01
  to get back into the workforce, how incredibly resilient we are as people and how, I don't know,
• 3:08
  her story is just incredibly inspiring. She's had not an easy road when it came to the way that she
• 3:15
  was propelled into motherhood and sort of from then on, but the challenges and the things that she's
• 3:20
  experienced, the sounds really cheesy, but genuinely the way she speaks about them, you're like, you are
• 3:25
  the epitome of what does not kill you makes you stronger and I just thank for anyone looking for.
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  I don't know, I guess, a feeling of camaraderie or support or community and shared experience and
• 3:38
  how hard it can be to want to have a career and be a mum. I think that this conversation was just
• 3:44
  incredibly powerful and I think one of my favorite things that she speaks about in this is the idea
• 3:50
  of your family being an asset, which is often not spoken about in this way and just valuing the
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  amount of time and energy and love that is not quantifiable through financial mains that a mother
• 4:04
  puts into their kids and the home and the family as an asset, I was just like chef's kiss so beautifully
• 4:11
  put. So this is an amazing episode, would love to hear what you think, please comment wherever
• 4:16
  you're listening and if you have listened, honestly, listen again, it's such a good conversation.
• 4:21
  So here is Amy Fraser.
• 4:27
  I would love to know, like, beyond the job, beyond the kids, how would you describe yourself?
• 4:33
  Someone's like, who are you? Oh, God, I feel like I would stand for 10 a.m.
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  What is the meaning of happiness? What is the meaning of life? I guess it's like, you know,
• 4:43
  what is the essence of who you are? Like, how do you identify as a person?
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  So esoteric, I love it. So I am a woman, I am a mother, I am a business woman, I guess.
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  At the core of what I do across all facets of my life, I would say, I've always been
• 5:04
  interested in people in the way that we connect and what drives us and the relationships that
• 5:11
  form the foundation of that. And that is a common thread through, I think, everything that I do.
• 5:15
  So does that answer the... Yeah, that was a question. Beautiful. I think the thing is,
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  because I know Amy threw actually an ex-boyfriend, and I know that that's the kind of question you
• 5:24
  can answer. Like, I wouldn't probably throw that at Mimi interview yet. I don't know if I did
• 5:28
  very well, but... So it was great. Now, you wrote a really amazing blog post,
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  for us ages ago, and I remember reading your answers and I'll say, oh, Amy, just so eloquent and
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  really open and vulnerable and insightful. And I just, if anyone hasn't read it, highly recommend,
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  you can find it in the blog section on our website. But one of the things that you wrote that I wanted
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  to ask you about was when you were younger, you said you were rich in love, but not so much in
• 5:56
  money. And I guess I'd love to know what your childhood was like. And if you could just elaborate
• 6:01
  a bit on that. And maybe how you think it's affected maybe what you do or your family life now.
• 6:08
  Yeah, great question. So I grew up in Auckland. I spent a little bit of time in Oakuni when I was
• 6:15
  little. My parents, my dad as a policeman, he has been since I was born before I was born. And my mum,
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  she is a business owner as well. She does MBTI training, kind of similar to what I do. So
• 6:34
  Mayas Briggs, she runs kind of personality seminars and was an entrepreneur before anybody
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  referred it to as being that it was just kind of putting food on the table. But we didn't grow up
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  with a lot of money. And when my parents separated when I was maybe sex or so, that became
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  more pronounced, I guess, our financial situation as one way of putting it. You know, in saying that,
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  we were also really privileged in the way that if I wanted to do speech and drama lessons,
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  we did them. You know, my mum and my dad, they always made sure that we did the things that we
• 7:12
  needed to do that were important. But my brother remembers this really specific moment of our mother
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  being really upset because she couldn't afford to pay a speeding fine. And he was like, I know at that
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  moment that we had no money. And so all that money was a stretch. But I don't remember ever feeling
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  like I lacked. My mother was always a great example of you can figure it out and money doesn't
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  actually matter that much. You don't have to have a lot of money to have a great life. You
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  can start a business as a single mother with three kids at home and do your masters at the dining
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  room table after they've gone to bed and kickstart something on your own and figure it out.
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  However, I think along with that, we didn't have a lot of discussions about money at the dinner
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  table. There wasn't an abundance of financial literacy. You know, a lot of people, I think,
• 8:10
  have awareness of investment and things like that. We just didn't. I didn't even know what
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  that would meant until yesterday. Yeah. I think so many of us can relate to that lack of education,
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  financial literacy. I mean, that was really lucky that her mum wasn't accountant. So she was
• 8:30
  kind of exposed to that quite young. We talked about money a lot. It was very much the value. There
• 8:35
  was a whole conscious of the value of money. That costs money. That cost $30. That cost for
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  it. Also, if you want that, you have to work for it. It's kind of thing. It's like that.
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  I don't know who we are. My parents went wrong with me. Now it gets a bit ridiculous. It's
• 8:51
  ingrained in me. It's like that cost money. You can't sometimes get removed from that and just
• 8:58
  enjoy. But I honestly reckon my parents tried to have that with me. They tried with pocket money.
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  They tried with all sorts of stuff. It's not like I was a spoiled kid. But for some reason,
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  I think maybe because my dad was trying to drill into me, I was just pushing it away,
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  pushing it away, pushing it away, pushing it away. The stuff I did when I was younger,
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  my relationship with my finances was like, so dire. Dad could not be proud of that we're doing
• 9:24
  because he's like, thank fuck. She is finally learning something. Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess Amy,
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  when you left home, did you go straight over to America? I went to Canada first. Cool.
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  So I lived in Toronto for about six months. So out of uni, I went to AT, I said,
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  a communications. I worked at Oglevy for a year and then realized that with a communications
• 9:47
  degree in 2000, an age myself here, 2000 or something, 2008, you could either be an account executive
• 9:55
  at an advertising firm or a PR girl, neither of which were that appealing after working and advertising
• 10:00
  for a year. And so I really wanted to go to New York. I don't know why. I don't know if I'd seen a
• 10:06
  movie or I think I was very into music at the time and very into the arts. And it was appealing in
• 10:12
  that sense. Visas were a nightmare though. So I landed in Canada with a guitar. What a how-kid.
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  And so cute. What an idiot. It's a movie. It's like, you know what? I want to go to New York.
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  I'm just going to go to Toronto without a towel. What a loser. And ended up on like nobody's doorstep,
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  didn't know a soul. I remember I saved it for my ticket and got on the plane. And then I worked
• 10:39
  three jobs to pay my rent. And I worked in retail during the day and then I would go to my
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  restaurant job in the evening. And then I started my bar shift at one or two. And I didn't do
• 10:54
  this. I didn't do this every day. I didn't do this every day. I'm not that noble. But it was quite a
• 10:59
  hardcore regime. And then the winter set in. And I was like, fuck this, I'm out. See you back.
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  Yeah. I was like, I can't afford heat. Like there's no heating. I'm, yeah, I'm done.
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  And also, and then so from there you went to New York. So you were like, it's cold here. I'm
• 11:16
  going to go somewhere. I started this jewelry brand with my ex-husband called Two Gypsies.
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  And it ended up in vogue and all these things. And like, you're like cracked it. I was like,
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  wow, you know, I'm really killing it. Working as a nanny and a jewelry maker in the city. But
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  I love that you're like, I'm like genuine. I'm like, no, no. But it was, do you know what the best
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  part about that was? It was my introduction to, oh, I wouldn't really call it business. I mean,
• 11:44
  that's a bit grandiose. But I remember building the website and I built it in Dreamweaver. And
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  now I'm really aging myself because I remember kind of like drawing the little like HTML boxes
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  and, and learning a very rudimentary version of code. And, and I think that was my first
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  introduction of like, okay, well, if you want to create something, if you want to do it,
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  then figure out how to do it yourself. And so I did that for a while. And then I got my green
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  card. And I think the week that I was so desperate to work like a real job. And I got a job
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  the week that I got my green card. And I worked in a branding agency as a project manager. We did
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  all of the things I loved about advertising. And none of the stuff I hated. So building a brand,
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  building a voice. And it was great. And now the husband, the ex-husband that you're talking about,
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  you can tell me if you don't want to go here. But you have two kids. One of one of which was with him.
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  Yes. And it was probably a less than ideal entry into motherhood, if I can say that, in terms of
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  definitely what's an ideal. Yeah, definitely. I'm like, I don't want to be a fan of you.
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  Should I code it? I'm like, is that something you feel comfortable talking about?
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  Yeah, definitely. And being completely honest about what happened at that time, I found out at
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  five months pregnant that he had essentially a double life with multiple other women. And so
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  that, and that was after we'd been married for about eight years. And that was, yeah, five
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  months into a planned pregnancy. And that was at the height of kind of my career at the years prior.
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  I had built this business, which we'll get into. But it really was the catalyst of a huge new
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  chapter for my life. And that was my, that was one of my first dragons to slay.
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  I'm glad that you're slater because, you know, it would be really terrifying having your first
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  kid in general, you know, regardless of even if you've a really stable, happy relationship.
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  But then sort of to add on like a holy shit, I'm like, kind of doing this by myself now.
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  And do you look at yourself back then and go, oh my gosh, I can't believe I came through that.
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  I have a lot of compassion for that woman who I was.
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  And I'm sure it sounds so weird to say that you wouldn't change it, right?
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  I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it. And it's a very, I think at the time of things
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  like that happening, it's really hard to stand back and say, well, what is this teaching me?
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  And I think at the time, I didn't have this very, kind of noble outlook. I was really just
• 14:15
  operating almost on autopilot. And that week that I found out I had to present these big events
• 14:23
  in San Francisco, and then I had some in New York, and then I had to, and there was just so much going
• 14:28
  on. I mean, the one thing that I always offer people in terms of, by way of advice,
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  in situations like that is just hold on to the things that make you feel powerful.
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  And for me, that was my work. And my career had granted me so much of my identity.
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  And the community that I'd built was also, I had kind of built this community, okay,
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  real thinking that I was building something for other people. And it was this really
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  serendipitous episode of my life where I thought, holy shit, I actually built this for me.
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  And to feel that reciprocity and the love and the energy that you pour into something and
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  not having that immediate gratification, we went profitable for years. And then the return on
• 15:15
  investment, if you will, came in such a magical form that I didn't know that I would need.
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  And it came in the form of woman standing behind me and acting like an army for this transformation
• 15:28
  that I was forced to undergo. As I went through this really hard time.
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  It's funny. Yeah, I was just thinking, oh, it's not even anywhere near what you went through.
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  But I remember I was very first-curve event. And we had 30 people, like it was the first-curve event.
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  And I was really, really excited and I broke up with a boyfriend the night before and had to go
• 15:50
  and present. And I was like, to my sister, remember, I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't do it.
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  And then I was like, you know what, I have to do it. I can't let all these people down.
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  Let's just get some rest. So I'm done with it. Yeah, I just don't want that one.
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  So I was hanging on by a thread, but I was like, oh my god, all I have to do is get through
• 16:05
  this evening. And then afterwards, I was like, I'm so glad I didn't just bail or I didn't just
• 16:10
  give up. And it was more, I think, a function of, I can do that, I can get through this.
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  Channeling your attention or your focus to something else, almost like to distract you,
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  not saying don't deal with your emotions, not deal with it, but like, is it moment?
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  Something about applying yourself and reminding me, because I think at that moment,
• 16:27
  you probably felt a deficit in value. Like I've broken up with my boyfriend, I've lost something.
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  So what is something that exercises that feeling of abundance or that feeling of worth?
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  And for you, that was, you are offering something of yourself to other people,
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  which actually in turn, it empowers you and it reminds you of your strength.
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  And so even if, yeah, in those moments where you really don't want to, I think like using
• 16:54
  your voice is really important, important when you've gone through a period of feeling voiceless,
• 16:58
  doing the things that remind you of who you are and surrounding yourself with people who reflect
• 17:03
  back a good version or an important, a valuable version of yourself is what stops you through.
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  It's really hard to kind of put a blanket over this. And it would also just like to preface
• 17:14
  this entire conversation by saying that collectively, we are three white women in a room
• 17:20
  from a very privileged, speaking from a very privileged perspective. And so even,
• 17:26
  thank you for pointing that out.
• 17:27
  Or even my circumstance where, yeah, I was a single mother. So, okay, I guess I kind of like
• 17:32
  laps into a marginalized group for five minutes or whatever it is, but you know, I'm not a woman
• 17:37
  of color. I don't, I didn't have a whole lot of disadvantages working against me in the first place.
• 17:44
  So, even though I was, I found myself in a position of stress, I had things going for me,
• 17:51
  I had a family to come back to. And I think that we talk about privilege by way of financial
• 17:57
  privilege, family is a huge form of privilege. We recently did an anonymous sort of survey,
• 18:03
  we did one that was for salaries, and then we recently did one parental. And it was people
• 18:09
  wanted to know what other companies offered when it came to having leaving to have a baby. And
• 18:14
  you've obviously been self employed for 10 years. So, it's quite a different situation to you,
• 18:18
  but I just love to talk about that relationship between taking time out for work. And what that
• 18:23
  looks like from a support perspective, like whether you're self employed or with an employer.
• 18:28
  In terms of maternity leave, I'd never envisioned having this like time where I just didn't work
• 18:36
  for a while. I always wanted to keep working with the acknowledgement that I had no idea of
• 18:40
  what parenthood would bring me. But I think what's interesting is that here it's very common,
• 18:47
  you know, to have a year's maternity leave, generally speaking, a lot of people I know
• 18:52
  have that offered by their employer or six months or whatever that may be. I got an email from
• 18:57
  kind of a founder at a company saying something along the lines of like, I found it, you know,
• 19:02
  she took three weeks off and after her maternity leave, which is, and she didn't even check her
• 19:09
  email once and like, do you want to do an interview about that because that's such a huge achievement.
• 19:15
  Well, I think it's a good thing that she only took, it was something like she took a whole three
• 19:20
  weeks off. I was like, that's, you know, if you reverse that and said if somebody took three weeks
• 19:24
  off after maternity leave, he'd be like, that's insane. And over there, it was something to be proud
• 19:28
  of like she really took some time off herself. Oh my God. It was something in that realm and I
• 19:33
  just remember thinking, well, it's so different, the expectation of work and what we expect of
• 19:39
  women and also what we expect of ourselves. But I like what you said about I wasn't planning to
• 19:43
  take a year off or, you know, but like, it was the whole expectation of I didn't know what
• 19:46
  motherhood entailed. I might be absolutely sweet with it and want to come back to work really early
• 19:50
  or I might need a lot of time. You know, like, it's such an unknown. I think a lot of people don't
• 19:55
  have the luxury totally to even say, I'm going to take the mental six months or a whole year,
• 20:00
  I'm never going to work again. Well, especially if you're self-employed, that's three
• 20:03
  months, six months a year, you're not earning. I mean, what's it been like for you with the dynamic
• 20:08
  in your relationship? Well, I think having a second child in some ways, even though that was so,
• 20:14
  you know, that introduction I had to motherhood was so cooked that I was like, what's she going
• 20:22
  to say? But I kind of, as my little boy as he, you know, I kind of got through that first year
• 20:31
  and I kind of had one kid on lock. I was like, okay, you drop them off to candy, whatever you get
• 20:38
  you're shit done, you kind of one child is manageable. And then the introduction of a second
• 20:45
  has been more difficult for me in a lot of ways because it has been such a logistical challenge
• 20:56
  that you were like, I don't know how people do it. I don't know either. And I just somehow
• 21:04
  make it work. But there is a cost to that. I really hope that I don't sound like a victim of
• 21:10
  this tragedy. My children are the best thing that have ever happened to me. However, speaking
• 21:14
  about the realities of making it work is something that we need to do more of. And again,
• 21:20
  I am in a situation where I have a partner. There's another person in our family making money
• 21:27
  as single mothers. I mean, I don't know how single mothers do it. And as you said, like, what is
• 21:35
  the solution to the problem? I think it's not just support for mothers. It's actually support
• 21:40
  for families at large. Yeah. Giving, like, taking the stress off of mothers to like have to do
• 21:48
  both things. Or like, I mean, I honestly just, I feel so naive with this because I don't even know
• 21:53
  what would help. Well, it's systemic. So it needs to be addressed culturally. And it also needs
• 21:58
  to be addressed as a responsibility to the people. And so it depends on how socialist your
• 22:05
  views are, how much taxpayer money should go into supporting families. And what is the cost
• 22:10
  to other economic facets that, you know, what will be sacrificed as a result of that? Or what is
• 22:16
  the value of having women supported in the workplace? I mean, you know, it really depends on who you
• 22:22
  are as regards to how to solve the problem. But there is a problem. And I think we're just starting
• 22:28
  to talk about the problem. And then you have a whole lot of dudes who are like, well, somebody's
• 22:32
  got to have the Kurds. And I think that this goes back to what I was saying in the interview
• 22:38
  that I did with you guys, whereas this kind of like low-key patriarchal infusion that I believe
• 22:47
  New Zealand and, you know, I'd go say Australia as well as kind of entrenched in, where we have
• 22:53
  made a lot of strides for women. However, at the dinner table and your uncle makes a joke,
• 23:00
  and then your boyfriend says something and you're like, oh, it's just there. It's there. It's
• 23:05
  below the surface, but it is there. And that permeates how we exist. It permeates the expectations
• 23:13
  that you have when you enter a partnership with children. Ask any mother with kids how they do it.
• 23:21
  And there will be some, I guarantee, there will be some sort of like, well, I end up doing more,
• 23:27
  but it's not seen that invisible load. And even my friends who do make more money than their partners,
• 23:33
  they are still expected to run their house. So what is interesting to me is that money doesn't actually
• 23:42
  solve the problem. So when you're saying, how do we solve it? It's a hugely cultural as well.
• 23:49
  Hugely around gender roles. I know this really infuriates me. It's like,
• 23:56
  I should say you've been in a relationship where you would have a huge, hard day at work. In fact,
• 24:01
  probably all of us will have experienced this. And you come home and it's like almost expected
• 24:05
  that you're making dinner. As I've hold on, I've also just had a 10 hour day and I'm exhausted.
• 24:10
  And I don't want to order Uber Eats. So like, can we figure out a middle ground here?
• 24:14
  And I found out myself turning into my mother at that point because that was kind of not saying
• 24:18
  that my dad didn't make dinner. He did, and he made delicious dinners. But I think it was like,
• 24:22
  both my parents were working. Yet, it was me and my sister would always go up to my mom and be like,
• 24:26
  what are we having for dinner? And I remember once she just lost it and she was like, I don't
• 24:30
  fucking know, she's weird. And I was like, even that, that we're asking mom what's for dinner,
• 24:37
  we're not asking mom and dad. And I think there's also an internal conflict that comes with that
• 24:43
  because I also want to be the one making dinner for my kids. And this is where it gets complicated.
• 24:52
  Because I want to be the one making sure his school bag is my son's start school in a few weeks.
• 25:00
  And I want to be the one who's there. I want to be the one at the doctor's office
• 25:06
  making sure that I'm there. So there is biology at play here as well. So I want to acknowledge that
• 25:11
  because as a mother, you do have a reflex towards your children to prioritize them.
• 25:19
  And but what is interesting is that culturally we are now working, we're in the workplace and
• 25:23
  we have come to acknowledge that we do exist outside of our worms. And so there's this constant
• 25:28
  conflict as somebody who loves their career and who loves their children. But again, it's hard
• 25:34
  because I want to be there for my kids. I want to be the one, not all the time, but I want to
• 25:40
  still be there for them. We're almost our own worst enemy. We want to do everything.
• 25:44
  Yes, thank you. But the interesting thing is even if you think about it from a business dynamic
• 25:49
  for Kani, you know, often I'll be like, oh, I want to come to that meeting. She's like, yeah,
• 25:52
  but we've got to divide and conquer. We've got to try and get locked down here. So I also imagine
• 25:58
  it's hard within a dynamic where it's like, on one side, you probably want to say, hey, can you like
• 26:03
  step up and also want to be there for all of these things? But at the same time, it's like,
• 26:06
  if they're doing it, you're probably like, okay, shit, I'm going to get a couple of hours
• 26:09
  worked on. You know, it's like, what is it that you need them to pick up slack and what is like
• 26:13
  within your own dynamic? What's helpful? What have you found that would be of benefit to you?
• 26:20
  So my partner works at a property development company in finance and those hours are very fixed
• 26:26
  in their long. And I think what has been helpful is being, because I think that as a woman,
• 26:32
  we just assume everything is our responsibility. And instead of having this generalized approach
• 26:38
  of like, well, you just need to help being really specific. Like, can you do the Kendi drop off
• 26:44
  on days XYZ? Being specific around the things that you need as opposed to having a generally
• 26:50
  expectation, but not voicing it because you're raging on the inside and then expecting them to
• 26:55
  know, I think men respond well to very explicit direction. And because we've seen our mothers
• 27:02
  just kind of pick things up and do everything, we assume that role as well. Whereas being really
• 27:09
  clear about the things that your partner can help with has been helpful. And I guess it all comes
• 27:17
  down to communication. Communication. Yeah. Yeah. Communicating. It's almost like a delegation. It's like
• 27:22
  you're the, it's all the sounds like a contract. It's almost like you're all ahead of everything
• 27:27
  because let's be honest, like you kind of are probably a little bit, but it's like you don't
• 27:31
  necessarily need to make that person feel like that. It's like, okay, if I look at this,
• 27:34
  there's a project manager in line. You can be the manager of that and the manager of that.
• 27:38
  What would help me, you know, like, and you're right, it's like, is it Kendi pick up?
• 27:42
  Is it, could you cook dinner two nights a week? Is it? And then you can kind of plan and know the time
• 27:47
  that you're spending in certain areas of your life and choose where you want to spend more energy
• 27:52
  and time when you get stuff taken off your plate. If you're working and you're not with your
• 27:56
  kids and then if you're with the kids and you're not working, I don't have kids, but I just feel
• 28:00
  like I will constantly feel like I'm letting the other job down, but there's just only 24 hours
• 28:07
  in a day. So you literally have to divide up your time, but I just feel like I will constantly be
• 28:11
  like, I'm not putting enough effort into either. Mums guilt sounds like the number one thing that
• 28:16
  people talk about. Yeah, it's huge because there's that conflict at play constantly. I go through
• 28:23
  stages though, I go through stages of, or you know, I have days where I'm really, really stoked
• 28:30
  that I'm working and I'm producing something other than pasta or, you know, and I'm quite like,
• 28:38
  this is actually, I bet you produce a really good pasta. I actually don't. I'm a shit pasta maker.
• 28:44
  There are a lot of things about motherhood that I love my kids more than anything in the world.
• 28:52
  I'm good at caring for them, but I get really over like playing. I'm great at reading books and
• 28:59
  doing that kind of thing and you don't want to be like, horsey riding around the living room. No,
• 29:03
  absolutely not. We do a lot of dance parties and that's great, but and in those moments I feel,
• 29:07
  you know, when I'm looking after my kids and I know that they feel safe and they're coming into a
• 29:11
  home that's warm and I'm bathing them and I love caring for my kids, but I know that for example,
• 29:17
  like taking riders swimming, I'm like, in, can you do that? Or, you know, there are certain things
• 29:22
  that you can kind of, you can delegate to your partner, you can delegate to yourself as well,
• 29:27
  you can know what you're good at as a parent. Like playing to your strengths, like in a business
• 29:31
  sense, but in a parenting sense. But in a parenting sense. And I, but there is the, there is the guilt,
• 29:35
  there is the, it's like us with the curve, you know, parents of the curve, but you look,
• 29:40
  you take after the creative jobs. So it is our child, the curse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:45
  But it's, yeah, you're trying to do both things well. And I think that what you find as a mother
• 29:51
  is you're doing, you can't do everything well. And so you do everything at kind of like,
• 29:57
  you do both things at like 60% and then you have to make peace with that.
• 30:01
  I know I've been kind of harping on about my health and not investing in it, but it's so true.
• 30:07
  I feel weirdly passionate about this because the last four months for me being in New Zealand have
• 30:14
  really changed my overall picture of health. And that comes down to exercising, meditating,
• 30:20
  spending time with family and friends having work boundaries and also fueling my body with really
• 30:26
  incredible supplements. And one of the brands that I wanted to speak to you about,
• 30:29
  that I've been using since I've been home as be pure, which is a New Zealand brand. And honestly,
• 30:35
  just everything about them, like the glass bottle, the branding, the high quality ingredients,
• 30:41
  I'm just, I'm such a fan. And so ahead of New Zealand winter, we are doing a really cool
• 30:47
  collaboration with be pure for the curve community. So they have an immune essentials pack,
• 30:52
  which is these three products that I have here. So one of them is the Superboost Se.
• 30:56
  This one is like fast-acting immune support. So if you're getting like the tickle in your throat,
• 31:01
  you hone these. They've got three grams of high potency vitamin C per serve. It's kind of like
• 31:08
  inhaling 39 oranges worth of vitamin C. The second product in the immune essentials is the zinc
• 31:15
  restore, which I've been having since I've been home and I had no idea that this was such an important
• 31:20
  mineral and just so good for all-round health. So the supports your gut health, immunity,
• 31:25
  hormone balance, mood, and energy, which I have been needing lately. And then the third one
• 31:32
  is vitamin D restore. So for anyone who has experienced seasonal depression,
• 31:37
  this is like sunshine in a bottle. It's really, really good, particularly over those winter months,
• 31:43
  when you don't see as much sunshine. But the reason that this is so great is that we are giving
• 31:47
  everyone in the curve community 20% off the immune essentials pack. For all information,
• 31:52
  to have a look at the essentials pack and see those three products, you can,
• 31:56
  we'll put all of the details in the podcast show notes. Can I ask you essentially a controversial
• 32:02
  question? We did an episode with a lawyer and she gave us an explanation around the property
• 32:07
  relationships act. You either have essentially a prenup or by default the New Zealand law essentially
• 32:15
  means you split things of 15. From a financial standpoint, when you look at kids' relationship,
• 32:20
  the balance or imbalance of work for parenting, how do you deal with money within that dynamic?
• 32:27
  Well you have to look at both paying the mortgage and raising children as something that you both
• 32:34
  reap the reward from and you both put into those things respectively throughout a relationship.
• 32:42
  So do you mean, for example, making the pastor is something that's contributing to your
• 32:46
  kids being fed well to then be healthy, happy, etc? Exactly. And say one partner takes less time,
• 32:53
  or spends less time at work, or them spending less time at work as a byproduct of them
• 32:59
  investing their time and energy in the children. Both of the parents get to have return on
• 33:06
  investment from the kids. You could say well then the division of property may be the one partner
• 33:15
  hasn't contributed as much financially to the property by way of money, but they've invested
• 33:21
  in the family in a different way. So it goes back to and both of you enjoy the roof of your head,
• 33:27
  but both of you enjoy fed safe, healthy children. That's a really good way. I love that.
• 33:32
  So you have to look at it as a return on investment that you both reap the rewards of
• 33:38
  whether that's a gain from when you sell the house, but you also have the return on investment
• 33:46
  from the kids. The kids are like little assets. They're like little assets. So you've got to look at
• 33:50
  you've got to look at the family as an asset. And it's not. It's not. Women's work and I'll call it
• 33:56
  women's work because we all know what I mean by that. Unfortunately, but it is not valued in
• 34:02
  the same way because it is invisible and because it is expected. And also because those roles are
• 34:08
  paid really low. If you're a nanny or you're a cleaner or you're a cook even like me. They're not
• 34:13
  you're a mother and you're not paid at all. There's no value. But I also mean like what those
• 34:18
  jobs translate to financially isn't valued particularly highly in society either. Like if you're
• 34:24
  a full-time nanny, it's not the same as what you would earn if you were a lawyer. And it's so
• 34:29
  hard. It's such hard work. There's also the cost of when you stop working. It's the opportunity cost.
• 34:39
  So it's not just you miss out on a paycheck for six months. You miss out on especially, I think,
• 34:43
  if you are self-employed, you know, jobs being offered to you or development and a company
• 34:52
  my name. The new people that are coming in and taking those jobs. Is that a fair thing or relevant?
• 34:58
  So that definitely drove me to go back to work sooner as well. Absolutely.
• 35:03
  I look at my mum and like it's been so hard for her to get a job after having kids. And she's
• 35:09
  kind of just ended up in retail or sort of admin work and I just think she's so talented,
• 35:14
  she's got so much to offer. But unfortunately, like the younger people that have come through,
• 35:19
  it's much more competitive and hard to build you. I mean, you know, stats around like how hard it is
• 35:24
  for women to get their salaries back to where before they had kids. I don't know what it is.
• 35:28
  It takes about 10 years. So your salary decreases from four to eight percent when you return to it.
• 35:32
  I mean, this is not self-employed. Every start of it, but self-employed.
• 35:38
  So because you miss out on pay rises, because you're not visually there. And then also,
• 35:47
  you're probably going to go back part time or a lot less hours. So therefore your salary
• 35:52
  affects that. So it takes, yeah, an average of about 10 years to get back to your pre-pure
• 35:56
  and hood salary, which is absolutely nuts. I also thought that when I put my kid in Kindi,
• 36:02
  like the first time I was like, great, like those are my guaranteed eight hours a day, whatever,
• 36:07
  lol. You know, they get, it is like a petri dish. So your kids then get sick and then you are
• 36:15
  constantly paying for Kindi and yet they're never there. And so I think that you need,
• 36:22
  unless you can afford a full-time nanny, you absolutely need a one flexible guardian.
• 36:32
  And if you don't have that one, I mean, I'm flexible and I still lean on family support so much
• 36:39
  in terms of grandparents, all of that. So you really need, and with two kids, it's like, you know,
• 36:49
  if one of them's healthy, then the other one will be sick. So you constantly need somebody with
• 36:53
  a flexible position or you need full-time help. I want to be able, I hope, when I have kids,
• 36:58
  I'm in a position where I can afford some kind of help, because I would love to be able to enjoy
• 37:04
  enjoy time with them and look after them while also being able to work. I think that's something
• 37:09
  that I would love to have, like the balance that you're trying and obviously doing, I know,
• 37:15
  it's supposed to be so hard, but from the outside it looks like you're doing very successfully.
• 37:20
  That for me would be the dream, to be able to be in a position where I can afford to do both.
• 37:26
  Because you won't be leaving the curve before 5pm, please.
• 37:30
  Okay, the kids sick. Sorry, nope. But I love what you actually just said about being able to
• 37:36
  afford to do both, because you do need to be able to afford to go to work. That's actually something
• 37:42
  that's glossed over a lot, whereas yes, you can look at two working appearances, something that is
• 37:50
  a need, like a financial need, but it also is a privilege in ways. You have to be able to
• 37:56
  afford daycare. Daycare is expensive. That's right, me. I can't believe how much miso is
• 38:01
  like daycare, and that's a dog, like a kind of children. In some way, being able to work,
• 38:12
  having two working parents is a privilege, because you need to be able to afford that back up.
• 38:16
  But I think this is also something that a lot of families will come up against in terms of
• 38:21
  it doesn't make financial sense for you to go back to work, but then you have a mother who's
• 38:25
  desperate to invest in herself outside of her children. And you can't put a price on that.
• 38:30
  Well, you can't put a price on that, but I'm sure that is the start of mini and argument
• 38:36
  around, well, we can't afford for you to go to work, so therefore you have to be at home with the
• 38:42
  kids. I kind of imagine how difficult that would be to have to look after your own children.
• 38:51
  It's to be denied your own need to have your own growth and your own, yeah.
• 38:59
  For some people, all that they've ever wanted is to be able to set home with their kids full
• 39:03
  time, and that's also a privilege. That's also a privilege. I think I have to go back to work,
• 39:10
  and they don't want to. Yeah, it's very complex, a topic.
• 39:17
  It's funny talking about my dog, which is pretty much the child.
• 39:20
  Yeah, for anyone that didn't pick up on him.
• 39:21
  But I remember when she was little, and she went to nursery three days away,
• 39:25
  and I was like from eight to two, and I took her one day and she had a bit of a snotty nose,
• 39:29
  honestly, sounds like my child. And they were like, we can't take her today.
• 39:33
  And I instantly went to the panic mode, and I was like, but I can't leave her at home,
• 39:37
  and I have to go to work. And it was like this realization of it's a fucking dog,
• 39:40
  back, you know what I mean? But I was like, this is what mothers must have to do every day,
• 39:45
  and then I had to call my dad. Can you come look after her? Like, I have to go into the office,
• 39:49
  juggling work and family and... Oh, yeah.
• 39:51
  Women are super heroes. Yeah.
• 39:54
  Like, honestly, super heroes. Go us. Amy, thank you so much for coming in and talking about
• 39:59
  this, and I think a lot of people listening will feel just like a sigh of relief that there's
• 40:04
  someone that they can relate to, and listen to, and probably think about maybe the situations
• 40:08
  there and if they want them to be different, how they can potentially approach that.
• 40:11
  I know, I just, if I haven't put the fear of God in here today, I feel like I've just...
• 40:15
  Well, I'm just like marked everyone out.
• 40:17
  Must sort my finances. Like, must close my legs.
• 40:21
  Condoms all day.
• 40:23
  Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve. These conversations are designed to teach you
• 40:26
  everything you need to know to be better with your money,
• 40:29
  saving, to investing, to talking with your friends about your salaries, for that stuff.
• 40:33
  And if you like what you've heard, we would love if you could please hit subscribe,
• 40:36
  wherever you're listening, and leave a comment, let us know what you thought about the episode.
• 40:39
  And it only takes one second, and it would really make our week a month, their year.
• 40:44
  Yeah, yeah, so please do it. Okay, love you. Bye.
• 40:48
  Okay, quickly, the curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not
• 40:52
  financial advisors. Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide
• 40:57
  personalized investing advice for your individual needs, and should not be relied upon to make
• 41:01
  an investment or financial decision. And always remember to do your own research
• 41:05
  before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support
• 41:10
  you need, but the final call is always yours. And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah,
• 41:14
  we know you got this.