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Mega Edition: The FBI And The Multiple Trips To The House In Moscow (9/8/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. As
0:04
Speaker 1: investigators begin to get back some of the DNA evidence,
0:08
Speaker 1: we have an article from NBC News that goes into
0:12
Speaker 1: that DNA evidence a little bit further and details a
0:15
Speaker 1: little bit about what goes down when an investigation like
0:19
Speaker 1: this is taking place. And I think it's a Pretty
0:23
Speaker 1: interesting article, and it adds a little bit of context
0:28
Speaker 1: to what's going on and what the investigators are facing
0:31
Speaker 1: with this monumental task. So, let's just get right into
0:35
Speaker 1: the article, and let's see what NBC News has for us. Headline,
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Speaker 1: Investigators untangling the Idaho student slaying face a daunting task,
0:46
Speaker 1: parsing the DNA. Victim's family... and the public are growing
0:51
Speaker 1: impatient with police investigating the University of Idaho stabbings. But
0:55
Speaker 1: analyzing evidence could take weeks. And I don't think anyone
1:00
Speaker 1: who is logical is expecting them to rush through the
1:02
Speaker 1: process of going through the DNA. I think the main
1:06
Speaker 1: frustration for most people is simply the communication aspect of
1:10
Speaker 1: all of this. This article was authored by John Shoup,
1:16
Speaker 1: Eric Ortiz, and Tim Stello. The search for whoever fatally
1:22
Speaker 1: stabbed four University of Idaho students last month includes examining
1:26
Speaker 1: an enormous amount of biological and digital evidence, a kaleidoscope
1:31
Speaker 1: of potential clues, some obvious, some unseen, and some that
1:35
Speaker 1: may lead to the wrong answers. No suspect has been
1:38
Speaker 1: publicly identified, no weapon has been found, and police have
1:42
Speaker 1: said little about what they've learned, as the small college
1:45
Speaker 1: town of Moscow has become the focus of widespread grief, anger,
1:50
Speaker 1: and speculation. A break could come at any moment from
1:54
Speaker 1: a confession or the thousands of tips submitted to police.
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Speaker 1: Such tips led the city's police department to ask the
2:01
Speaker 1: public on Wednesday for help tracking down the occupants of
2:05
Speaker 1: a white Hyundai Elantra in the early morning hours of
2:08
Speaker 1: November 13th, the day the students were found dead. The
2:12
Speaker 1: people in the car, which may have been near the
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Speaker 1: house when the students were later discovered, could have critical information,
2:18
Speaker 1: the department said. But in the absence of a sudden development,
2:23
Speaker 1: investigators are relying on forensic techniques to tackle a case
2:27
Speaker 1: in a time-consuming process that appears unusually complex, according to
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Speaker 1: half a dozen experts in crime scene analysis and evidence gathering.
2:36
Speaker 1: And this is why I think it's going to be
2:38
Speaker 1: a tip that leads the police, the investigators, to finding
2:41
Speaker 1: the person responsible. This is a case that only the
2:47
Speaker 1: most experienced crime techs can solve and answer, said Jennifer Koffendaffer,
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Speaker 1: who worked 25 years as an FBI agent and investigated
2:56
Speaker 1: violent crimes. It's going to take a long, long time.
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Speaker 1: And there's no doubt it's going to take some time
3:01
Speaker 1: to go through all of this DNA. But with all
3:04
Speaker 1: of the resources being pumped into Moscow and all of
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Speaker 1: the attention being placed on what happened, hopefully this DNA
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Speaker 1: gets expedited. Coffendaffer and other experts told NBC News that
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Speaker 1: the forensic investigation may be complicated by the chaotic nature
3:21
Speaker 1: of the murders, the layout of the rented house where
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Speaker 1: the victims were found, and the likelihood that many students
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Speaker 1: hung out or partied there. That's for sure. This is
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Speaker 1: what we said earlier. When you have a high traffic
3:32
Speaker 1: house like this, very difficult to come in and build
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Speaker 1: a DNA template due to all of the contagion from
3:40
Speaker 1: so many people being at the house all the time.
3:42
Speaker 1: And this is another reason why I don't think it
3:44
Speaker 1: was drug related. You're not going to have a stash
3:47
Speaker 1: house at a sorority house. That's crazy. Where kids could
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Speaker 1: stumble into one of the rooms drunk or even worse.
3:55
Speaker 1: What if a fight breaks out? The cops are called.
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Speaker 1: And they come in, they toss the house and find
4:00
Speaker 1: the drugs. So in my opinion, the very reason that
4:03
Speaker 1: this place is a DNA nightmare as far as contagion
4:06
Speaker 1: and finding, you know, a strand to follow, that's the
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Speaker 1: same reason why it wouldn't be a stash house. You
4:12
Speaker 1: don't have all that traffic at a stash house. I
4:16
Speaker 1: know it's frustrating to people, but murder investigations are not
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Speaker 1: a spectator event, said Howard Ryan, a former commander of
4:23
Speaker 1: a crime scene unit in the New Jersey State Police,
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Speaker 1: who is now a consultant for law enforcement. People are
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Speaker 1: influenced by TV shows. They believe that these events and
4:32
Speaker 1: processing and work happens at a much more rapid pace
4:36
Speaker 1: and results are obtained much quicker than they really are. Well, look,
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Speaker 1: I think they're conflating a little bit when you hear
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Speaker 1: the police and all of these ex-police officers and FBI
4:45
Speaker 1: officers come out on these tangents in normal circumstances, they're
4:49
Speaker 1: right about that because these cities, they're trying to turn
4:53
Speaker 1: over all of these murder cases at once. They don't
4:56
Speaker 1: have the resources to just jump in on one case.
4:59
Speaker 1: The labs are backed up. Forensics are backed up. But
5:02
Speaker 1: when you have the singular focus that we have here,
5:06
Speaker 1: things should move in a lot quicker manner and things
5:09
Speaker 1: should be processed in a lot quicker manner. Now, does
5:13
Speaker 1: that mean that it's going to be overnight? No, of
5:15
Speaker 1: course not. But it's not your regular run of the
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Speaker 1: mill homicide, say, in the inner city where you have
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Speaker 1: one detective working it. You have not only the detectives,
5:25
Speaker 1: but remember, you have the FBI, you have other people
5:28
Speaker 1: that they've flown in. So you have a whole host
5:30
Speaker 1: and a whole army of people here who are working
5:34
Speaker 1: towards getting these results turned around quickly. Although blood can
5:39
Speaker 1: be a crucial source of DNA, investigators don't know from
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Speaker 1: the start which is the victim's and which could be
5:45
Speaker 1: from the suspect. The same thing goes for other potential
5:48
Speaker 1: clues left behind. So investigators have to collect a lot
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Speaker 1: of specimens. You can't assume each drop of blood is
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Speaker 1: from the same person, said David Carter, a professor of
5:59
Speaker 1: criminal justice at Michigan State University and former Kansas City, Missouri,
6:03
Speaker 1: police officer who specializes in homicide investigations and intelligence. Well,
6:09
Speaker 1: if you worked in KC, my guess is you've seen
6:11
Speaker 1: a few homicides, huh? pretty violent place. And these guys
6:16
Speaker 1: who have worked in these big cities and who have
6:18
Speaker 1: worked as homicide police, especially they have a intimate knowledge
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Speaker 1: of how all of this stuff goes down. Because I mean,
6:26
Speaker 1: say you work in a place like Baltimore, how many
6:28
Speaker 1: homicides are you getting a year as an investigator? How
6:32
Speaker 1: many bodies are you catching? So these guys have a
6:35
Speaker 1: lot of experience with these crime scenes and how all
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Speaker 1: of it works. You have to sample all of them
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Speaker 1: and analyze them all to see if they belong to
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Speaker 1: victims or a suspect. It is very time intensive. They're
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Speaker 1: trying to find hairs, footprints from shoes, fingerprints, anything like that.
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Speaker 1: Authorities in Idaho could be waiting on the outcomes of
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Speaker 1: forensic analysis, which can take weeks or months to complete,
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Speaker 1: he said. They've got to look at it all, Carter said.
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Speaker 1: It's laborious, really laborious. And I agree under normal circumstances.
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Speaker 1: But here, when you have so many different investigators with
7:13
Speaker 1: their hands in the pie, this has to be expedited.
7:20
Speaker 1: Each day that passes disheartens victims' families, fuels impatience from
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Speaker 1: the public, and adds to the pressure on authorities. The
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Speaker 1: Moscow Police Department has called in the state police and
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Speaker 1: FBI for help, charted the victims' final hours, and ruled
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Speaker 1: out a number of people as suspects, including two roommates
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Speaker 1: who were in the house at the time, of the
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Speaker 1: November 13th killings. They've chased down unsubstantiated leads and tamped
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Speaker 1: down speculation and rumors that have circulated in the absence
7:48
Speaker 1: of news. Police have also faced criticism from students and
7:52
Speaker 1: the local community. for not providing more information about their investigation,
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Speaker 1: including why they believe the stabbings were a targeted attack.
8:01
Speaker 1: Police have also released conflicting statements about the ongoing threat
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Speaker 1: to the public. Moscow police have said they recognize how
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Speaker 1: frustrating the lack of news can be for the families
8:11
Speaker 1: and the public, but do not want to jeopardize the case.
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Speaker 1: We are at the point in the investigation where we're
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Speaker 1: still gathering information. We're still gathering tips. We're still gathering evidence.
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Speaker 1: We're still doing everything we need to do. Moscow police
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Speaker 1: chief James Fry said in a video posted online Tuesday afternoon,
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Speaker 1: and there's no doubt that they are. I think that
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Speaker 1: the main criticism from most people has been the messaging,
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Speaker 1: how it's been packaged. Now, of course, you're going to
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Speaker 1: have some yahoos who think they know better than the investigators.
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Speaker 1: There's always those people out there who are sitting on
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Speaker 1: their computers. They got their fingers stained with Cheetos. They're
8:48
Speaker 1: sucking down their stepdaddy Terry's Mountain Dew. You know those folks.
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Speaker 1: And they're going to think they know better than FBI investigators.
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Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is this. We don't
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Speaker 1: know even a portion of what these investigators know. The
9:04
Speaker 1: Moscow killings occurred in a three-story, six-bedroom rented house about
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Speaker 1: a half block from the University of Idaho campus. Three
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Speaker 1: of the victims, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Kaylee Gonsalves,
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Speaker 1: lived in the house. The fourth Ethan Chapin, 20, was
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Speaker 1: Kernodle's boyfriend and was staying the night, police said. Two
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Speaker 1: victims were found on the second floor and two on
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Speaker 1: the third floor, police said. All were likely asleep and
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Speaker 1: each were stabbed multiple times, some with wounds suggesting that
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Speaker 1: they'd fought back against their attacker, police said, citing the coroner.
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Speaker 1: Two roommates on the first floor slept through the killings,
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Speaker 1: police have said. Investigating a crime like this begins with
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Speaker 1: securing the scene. which, likely, has already been walked through
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Speaker 1: by witnesses and the first patrol officers to arrive. Experts said,
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Speaker 1: Not every scene. This scene, yeah, for sure. This scene
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Speaker 1: was definitely contaminated, and there's not even a doubt about that.
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Speaker 1: That's not speculation. now was the whole scene contaminated meaning
10:03
Speaker 1: the actual rooms where the murders took place well we
10:06
Speaker 1: don't have that information yet but the actual crime scene
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Speaker 1: of the rest of the house certainly contaminated then investigators
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Speaker 1: document everything they see taking photographs writing notes and creating
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Speaker 1: 3D scans. Next, investigators move through the scene, swapping surfaces
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Speaker 1: for DNA and fingerprints, collecting blood samples, and looking for
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Speaker 1: clues in where the blood was found. So, you know,
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Speaker 1: like in the shows or the movies, they come in
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Speaker 1: with like the lights and they have a whole process.
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Speaker 1: And the people that come into these crime scenes to
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Speaker 1: go through and collect this evidence, the best in the world.
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Speaker 1: Not even a shadow of a doubt about how good
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Speaker 1: they are at what they do. With four victims and
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Speaker 1: multiple bedrooms and multiple floors of a house, each room
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Speaker 1: becomes a scene unto itself, Ryan said. Many basic details
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Speaker 1: have not been released, including the exact location of each victim,
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Speaker 1: the order in which they were killed, and the extent
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Speaker 1: of each of their wounds. Police have not publicly theorized
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Speaker 1: how the killer entered and exited the house, but say
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Speaker 1: there are no signs of forced entry or property damage.
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Speaker 1: Investigators also said none of the victims were were sexually assaulted.
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Speaker 1: The weapon is believed to have been a fixed blade knife.
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Speaker 1: So with the whole not being sexually assaulted and all
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Speaker 1: of the other circumstances that we have here, it was
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Speaker 1: leading me to believe right away that it was somebody
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Speaker 1: that they knew. And that's why I'm so confused here.
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Speaker 1: No sexual assault, no forced entry. So all of the
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Speaker 1: signs point to somebody that they might have known. But
11:45
Speaker 1: this is one of those cases where you can just
11:48
Speaker 1: throw precedent out the window. I think that when we
11:52
Speaker 1: finally get to a destination here, hopefully when we get
11:55
Speaker 1: to a destination here of somebody being caught, it's going
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Speaker 1: to throw us all for a. Moscow police said they
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Speaker 1: have collected 113 pieces of evidence, but have not provided
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Speaker 1: more details. They said they also received more than 5000
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Speaker 1: tips by email and voicemail. More than 1,000 digital media
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Speaker 1: submissions have been provided to the FBI. We're putting the
12:16
Speaker 1: pieces together. And I think when the picture is done,
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Speaker 1: I think we'll have a real clear definition of what
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Speaker 1: occurred and where to go. Aaron Snell, an Idaho State
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Speaker 1: Police spokesman, told NBC News last week. And I'm sure
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Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. They're trying to put this puzzle together.
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Speaker 1: And they don't have all of the pieces yet. And
12:36
Speaker 1: while it's slowly falling into place... Until you have all
12:39
Speaker 1: of the pieces, you don't really know what the puzzle
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Speaker 1: is going to reveal, right? The FBI assigned nearly 50
12:46
Speaker 1: investigators to the case, while the state police has placed
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Speaker 1: more than a dozen investigators and forensic experts to provide
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Speaker 1: testing and analysis to help Moscow's team of six detectives.
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Speaker 1: So think about that. Moscow only had six detectives leading
13:02
Speaker 1: up to this. And when you're dealing with this kind
13:05
Speaker 1: of homicide, four kids, four people being killed. Imagine six detectives.
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Speaker 1: That means no detectives for anything else in the town
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Speaker 1: that's going on. So thankfully, they got all of this help.
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Speaker 1: My thing is, what happened in the lead up before
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Speaker 1: the help got here? Was the crime scene completely destroyed?
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Speaker 1: You know, there's just a bunch of questions. The department
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Speaker 1: declined to say how long the process of examining evidence
13:31
Speaker 1: would take or answer other questions about the investigation. Underlying
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Speaker 1: the case is a sobering statistic. U.S. police made arrests
13:39
Speaker 1: in less than half of homicides in 2021, according to
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Speaker 1: FBI data. An analysis of 2019 data from the Bureau
13:48
Speaker 1: shows authorities are 25% more likely to solve stabbings and shootings,
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Speaker 1: but that data is from less than half of the
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Speaker 1: nation's roughly 18,000 departments, said Stephen Briggs, a professor of
14:01
Speaker 1: political science at North Dakota State University, who studies clearance
14:05
Speaker 1: rates or the number of cases closed by arrests and
14:09
Speaker 1: other means. And this is the scary part, right? The
14:13
Speaker 1: thought that somebody can do something like this and get
14:16
Speaker 1: away with it, that's some terrifying stuff. And especially if
14:21
Speaker 1: we never get any more information about what went down.
14:27
Speaker 1: Researchers aren't sure why stabbings may be more likely to
14:30
Speaker 1: be solved, but Briggs said that homicides committed with sharp
14:33
Speaker 1: objects often bring the victim and offender into close contact,
14:37
Speaker 1: whereas those committed with firearms can occur in close proximity
14:41
Speaker 1: or greater distances. This may make the identification of a
14:45
Speaker 1: suspect easier or more likely for bystanders or other witnesses
14:50
Speaker 1: when they are present. And there's no doubt it just
14:52
Speaker 1: makes sense, logically speaking, that if you use a knife
14:55
Speaker 1: to kill somebody, there's going to be a better chance
14:58
Speaker 1: of you getting caught than if you use a gun.
15:02
Speaker 1: The lack of an arrest has unsettled the University of Idaho,
15:06
Speaker 1: where many students have chosen not to return to campus
15:09
Speaker 1: for the remainder of the semester or longer. are asking
15:12
Speaker 1: for police escorts around campus. Family members of victims have
15:16
Speaker 1: also expressed frustration. Steven Gonsalves, Kaylee's father, said in an
15:21
Speaker 1: interview last week that the lack of information released by
15:24
Speaker 1: the police has made him fear the investigation will lose momentum.
15:28
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to happen. I think there's
15:31
Speaker 1: way too many people who have their eyes on this case,
15:34
Speaker 1: and I don't think that it's going to disappear from
15:36
Speaker 1: the public discourse until we have some resolutions. Don't let
15:41
Speaker 1: this go cold, like some of these cases that we've
15:44
Speaker 1: seen around. That just makes the pain last even longer,
15:47
Speaker 1: Gonsalves said. And again, I've seen people out here criticizing
15:51
Speaker 1: this man, and it's bizarre to me. You have to
15:54
Speaker 1: have some set on you to sit around and criticize
15:57
Speaker 1: a father who just lost their daughter in such a manner.
16:02
Speaker 1: Experts stress that investigations like this one are nearly impossible
16:06
Speaker 1: to work quickly, given the level of evidence that needs
16:09
Speaker 1: to be processed, and the potential for mistakes. Peter Yachmetz,
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Speaker 1: a retired FBI agent with three decades at the agency
16:17
Speaker 1: specializing in security, said the samples could number in the
16:21
Speaker 1: thousands and may not even be from the victims or
16:24
Speaker 1: the killer. A college apartment house can have a lot
16:27
Speaker 1: of people coming and going or staying the night, so
16:30
Speaker 1: who could have left DNA evidence? It's a pretty daunting task,
16:35
Speaker 1: Yachmetz said. And what about people who lived there previously?
16:38
Speaker 1: I know it was a while ago, but maybe that
16:41
Speaker 1: DNA holds. The point is they have a monumental task
16:45
Speaker 1: on their hands and they're facing an uphill climb. But
16:48
Speaker 1: with all of the extra help, that should help to
16:51
Speaker 1: extradite this process and make things move in a quicker manner.
16:58
Speaker 1: Before getting answers about DNA, investigators see clues in the
17:02
Speaker 1: location of blood. If there isn't a lot of blood
17:05
Speaker 1: far from the body, it could show that there wasn't
17:07
Speaker 1: much of a struggle. Perhaps because the victim was killed
17:10
Speaker 1: while they slept, experts said. Blood leading away from a
17:13
Speaker 1: body could mean the killer was injured. If the killer
17:16
Speaker 1: got blood on themselves, then they would likely try to
17:19
Speaker 1: remove it using towels, clothing, toilet paper, a sink, even
17:23
Speaker 1: the washing machine. How messy they were could provide insight
17:27
Speaker 1: into whether the killer had planned the crime or acted
17:30
Speaker 1: in the moment. Again, this is all stuff that the
17:33
Speaker 1: investigation is going to have to show us. It doesn't
17:36
Speaker 1: seem to me at this point that this was a
17:39
Speaker 1: rage killing like done in the moment, but I don't
17:42
Speaker 1: really know. I'm just telling you my guess, right? This
17:45
Speaker 1: evidence and the roadmap that it's going to create is
17:49
Speaker 1: going to help the investigators immensely in putting all of
17:54
Speaker 1: these pieces together. Investigators try to identify the blood drops
18:00
Speaker 1: that don't fit the larger patterns. said George Hapakian, a
18:04
Speaker 1: DNA expert at Boise State University and the executive director
18:08
Speaker 1: of the Idaho Innocence Project. That could be either from
18:12
Speaker 1: dripping from a knife or a hand as the person's
18:15
Speaker 1: walking away or from an injury to the assailant. If
18:19
Speaker 1: the assailant is not wearing gloves, their hands likely touch
18:23
Speaker 1: things that investigators can try to collect DNA from, Hapakian said.
18:27
Speaker 1: Swabs and other items taken from the scene are sent
18:30
Speaker 1: to a crime lab where scientists look for signs of DNA.
18:34
Speaker 1: Finding enough genetic material to build a full DNA profile
18:37
Speaker 1: of a suspect can take days. Investigators also try to
18:41
Speaker 1: get DNA swabs from a wide array of people. Some,
18:45
Speaker 1: including the victims and those who have been ruled out
18:48
Speaker 1: as suspects, are considered exclusionary. But experts also recommend getting
18:52
Speaker 1: swabs from anyone else investigators interview just in case. I
18:58
Speaker 1: think that's a good policy to have. You never know.
19:01
Speaker 1: You might have to come back to somebody later on,
19:03
Speaker 1: like we saw with Richard Allen. So it's certainly a
19:06
Speaker 1: good policy to get a collection here from everybody who
19:09
Speaker 1: might be involved. DNA profiles from potential suspects are run
19:14
Speaker 1: through a federal database collected by law enforcement agencies around
19:18
Speaker 1: the country of people arrested for or convicted of crimes.
19:22
Speaker 1: Profiles collected from unidentified suspects in unsolved crimes are also
19:27
Speaker 1: in the database, known as CODIS. A match can lead
19:31
Speaker 1: authorities to a suspect who they must then locate and
19:34
Speaker 1: confirm a match with, a process that can take days
19:37
Speaker 1: or weeks. So when you're dealing with CODIS, there's certainly
19:41
Speaker 1: a lot of information that has to be run. But remember,
19:44
Speaker 1: they're talking about generally speaking, meaning under normal circumstances. This
19:49
Speaker 1: is any but normal circumstances. And with all of the
19:53
Speaker 1: resources thrown at this case, my guess is that the
19:56
Speaker 1: DNA went to the front of the line. If there
20:02
Speaker 1: is no hidden CODIS, then investigators can use other methods
20:05
Speaker 1: to find a DNA match. One method that has become
20:08
Speaker 1: widespread in recent years is genetic genealogy, in which investigators
20:13
Speaker 1: enter an unknown suspect's DNA profile into databases compiled by
20:17
Speaker 1: consumer services, typically used by people to learn about their ancestries. Then,
20:24
Speaker 1: using public genealogy records, they build family trees that could
20:27
Speaker 1: lead them to the killer. That process can take weeks
20:31
Speaker 1: or months, so there's no doubt that that's a laborious
20:35
Speaker 1: process there. and them going through that and trying to
20:38
Speaker 1: build family trees, and that'll take some time. Biological evidence
20:44
Speaker 1: is just one aspect of the forensic investigation. Typically, the
20:48
Speaker 1: victim's computers and phones are scanned for clues in emails,
20:51
Speaker 1: text messages, social media posts, internet searches, and photos. Phones
20:57
Speaker 1: can also reveal the victim's movements. And there's something called
21:00
Speaker 1: a geofence warrant that the police can use. And it's
21:04
Speaker 1: really frowned upon by people who are into, you know,
21:07
Speaker 1: privacy issues. But the geofence warrant gives the authorities a
21:10
Speaker 1: whole range of ability when it comes to flagging people's
21:14
Speaker 1: mobile movements, getting their records. So my guess is a
21:18
Speaker 1: geofence warrant has been asked for and given at least
21:22
Speaker 1: to some extent here. Investigators can also get a judge's
21:27
Speaker 1: permission to ask Google and other tech companies for information
21:31
Speaker 1: about phones that were in the area of the murders,
21:34
Speaker 1: a tool known as geofence warrants. This method has led
21:38
Speaker 1: police to suspects on all sorts of crimes from murder
21:42
Speaker 1: to burglary. Ryan said he assumed that geofence warrants are
21:46
Speaker 1: being used in the Idaho case along with other kinds
21:49
Speaker 1: of digital dragnets. My guess is that they're using geofence warrants.
21:54
Speaker 1: I've done a whole episode on geofence warrants in the past.
21:57
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll repost that one so that people can get
22:00
Speaker 1: a look at it and maybe get more context as
22:02
Speaker 1: to what it is. But he's not surprised that police
22:08
Speaker 1: in Idaho have not said whether they're doing any of this.
22:12
Speaker 1: As investigators, we don't owe the public real-time updates. Investigations
22:16
Speaker 1: are sometimes done very quietly and clandestine, and sometimes it
22:20
Speaker 1: has to be that way, Ryan said. Maybe they have
22:23
Speaker 1: someone under surveillance and they're waiting for results. Maybe they
22:26
Speaker 1: have someone. Or maybe they have nothing. And that's pretty
22:31
Speaker 1: much where we're all at, right? Maybe they have something.
22:33
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't. But I thought this article was interesting
22:36
Speaker 1: because it kind of gives you a little bit of
22:38
Speaker 1: an inside look at what the investigators are doing and
22:42
Speaker 1: what their thought process might be as they're processing the evidence.
22:47
Speaker 1: All right, folks, well, that's going to do it for
22:49
Speaker 1: this one. If you'd like to contact me, you can
22:52
Speaker 1: do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com.
23:01
Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I.
23:08
Speaker 1: The link that I discussed can be found in the
23:10
Speaker 1: description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program.
23:17
Speaker 1: It turns out that it was a good thing that
23:20
Speaker 1: the house in Moscow wasn't torn down. And that's because
23:24
Speaker 1: the investigators have now returned to the house in Idaho
23:27
Speaker 1: as they continue their investigation. And this is why I
23:31
Speaker 1: said in the beginning when they were talking about tearing
23:34
Speaker 1: down this house that they should wait until we were
23:36
Speaker 1: to a point where the trial was over. Then you
23:40
Speaker 1: can do whatever you have to do. But until that point,
23:43
Speaker 1: it seems like a no-brainer to keep the crime scene
23:46
Speaker 1: standing and available to both sides if they'd like to
23:49
Speaker 1: go there to further their investigations. And obviously, the prosecution
23:55
Speaker 1: did exactly that. Now, we saw down in South Carolina
23:59
Speaker 1: when Alec Murdoch was on trial, the jury actually went
24:03
Speaker 1: out to the crime scene to get a look at
24:05
Speaker 1: it for themselves. And I would not be shocked to
24:07
Speaker 1: see that happen here either, especially considering now that this
24:11
Speaker 1: house is going to be still there, still standing, during
24:16
Speaker 1: this trial. One thing that I do find a bit concerning, however,
24:19
Speaker 1: is the fact that the FBI needs to go back
24:21
Speaker 1: here at all. All of this evidence should have been
24:25
Speaker 1: collected previously. They had the 3D renderings of the house,
24:29
Speaker 1: all of it. So why even release this house from
24:32
Speaker 1: the custody of the state, from the custody of the investigators?
24:36
Speaker 1: back to the university, if every single nook and cranny
24:39
Speaker 1: wasn't looked at. And I wonder if Brian Koberger's defense
24:42
Speaker 1: team is going to use the fact that they had
24:45
Speaker 1: to go back for more investigative time there at the house,
24:48
Speaker 1: if they're going to use that as a way to
24:51
Speaker 1: try and shake a little bit of reasonable doubt into
24:54
Speaker 1: the dish. Because you know that's what they're looking for.
24:58
Speaker 1: That is their goal. How can we find some reasonable
25:01
Speaker 1: doubt here to make it look like Brian Koberger is
25:04
Speaker 1: not the guy? And if you can start going after
25:08
Speaker 1: the credibility of the investigators, of the investigation, make it
25:12
Speaker 1: look like it was half-assed or whatever, that's only going
25:16
Speaker 1: to serve your client well. But you certainly run the
25:18
Speaker 1: risk of looking like a jackass if you take this
25:21
Speaker 1: path and there's nothing there. And juries certainly don't take
25:25
Speaker 1: too kindly to having their leg pulled. They don't want
25:28
Speaker 1: to waste their time. You really think jurors want to
25:30
Speaker 1: be there in that jury box listening to all this BS?
25:34
Speaker 1: They don't. They're not getting paid for it. Not as
25:37
Speaker 1: much as they're making at work. So people in general,
25:40
Speaker 1: they don't have time for BS when they're on a jury.
25:42
Speaker 1: So if you start pitching them a whole bunch of
25:44
Speaker 1: fairy tales and you don't have any evidence for it,
25:47
Speaker 1: it's going to be your client who suffers. Because remember,
25:49
Speaker 1: everything that happens in that courtroom should be fact based.
25:53
Speaker 1: That ball does bounce both ways, though. If the jury
25:56
Speaker 1: thinks that they're being dog walked by the prosecution, it's
25:59
Speaker 1: not going to be good for the prosecution either. So
26:02
Speaker 1: this is certainly something that both sides have to take
26:04
Speaker 1: into account when they're firing off claims one way or
26:08
Speaker 1: the other. But as a defense attorney, I don't know
26:11
Speaker 1: how you couldn't be screaming bloody murder that your client
26:14
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to have the crime scene
26:16
Speaker 1: available to you later on down the road if maybe
26:19
Speaker 1: you wanted to send more investigators. I would have been
26:22
Speaker 1: going crazy as the attorney because you never know. Just
26:26
Speaker 1: like this new situation is showing us. Today's article is
26:31
Speaker 1: from News Nation and the headline, Kohlberger trial. Investigators return
26:36
Speaker 1: to the Idaho house. Kohlberger's trial has been delayed indefinitely.
26:41
Speaker 1: The FBI is gathering additional measurements and images of the home.
26:46
Speaker 1: Kohlberger is accused of killing four University of Idaho students.
26:50
Speaker 1: Now I'm sure the FBI and the prosecution, they'll just say, look,
26:54
Speaker 1: we're doing our due diligence here. We have more time
26:57
Speaker 1: on the docket now. We might as well head back
26:59
Speaker 1: out to the house. and see what we can come
27:01
Speaker 1: up with. But the defense, they're going to look at this,
27:05
Speaker 1: and their narrative is going to be, like I said
27:07
Speaker 1: a minute ago, they don't have any idea what they're doing. Look,
27:10
Speaker 1: they have to go back to the house. They don't
27:12
Speaker 1: even have their ducks in a row. They don't have
27:14
Speaker 1: all the evidence lined up. How could any jury trust them?
27:18
Speaker 1: That's going to be the narrative. The question is, will
27:20
Speaker 1: it work? This article was authored by Devin Markham and
27:25
Speaker 1: Brian Enten. FBI investigators will return to the Idaho College
27:31
Speaker 1: Killings House Tuesday to gather additional evidence and measurements as
27:36
Speaker 1: the trial of suspect Brian Kohlberger has been delayed indefinitely,
27:40
Speaker 1: according to a press release. So playing devil's advocate here,
27:44
Speaker 1: what other measurements could they possibly need? And what other
27:47
Speaker 1: evidence could possibly be present at this house? Didn't they
27:51
Speaker 1: spend a whole bunch of days there? Didn't they have
27:53
Speaker 1: the whole place tented off? Didn't they have the BAU there?
27:57
Speaker 1: All the FBI forensic teams? Blah, blah, blah. So what
28:00
Speaker 1: is it that they missed? And what initiated this new
28:04
Speaker 1: interest in taking another look at the house? Investigators are
28:08
Speaker 1: returning to the home on King Road in Moscow, Idaho.
28:11
Speaker 1: to get documentation to construct visual and audio exhibits and
28:15
Speaker 1: a physical model of the home, where four university students
28:19
Speaker 1: were killed. So the question is, why wasn't this done previously?
28:24
Speaker 1: If you thought that this was going to be something
28:26
Speaker 1: that was important for the case, shouldn't this have been
28:29
Speaker 1: done when the house was under your custody in the
28:31
Speaker 1: first place? And again, I'm looking at it through the
28:34
Speaker 1: lens of the defense. I'm looking at it through the
28:36
Speaker 1: lens of how they're going to challenge This new information,
28:40
Speaker 1: this new development. The prosecution explained to the university that
28:45
Speaker 1: the original timeline to create visual displays and models of
28:49
Speaker 1: the home was not enough time. The FBI is using
28:52
Speaker 1: an extended trial timeline to gather additional measurements and images
28:56
Speaker 1: of the home now that all the personal items from
28:59
Speaker 1: the building have been removed, the release said. So again,
29:03
Speaker 1: I get it and I know why you'd want to
29:04
Speaker 1: do it. But the question is, if this is something
29:07
Speaker 1: that you wanted to do or something that you thought necessary,
29:10
Speaker 1: why wasn't it done directly after all of these items
29:13
Speaker 1: were removed from the house? Why are we waiting until
29:16
Speaker 1: now when the trial was about to get started? And
29:19
Speaker 1: if you leave any sort of avenue for attack by
29:23
Speaker 1: the defense, they're going to chomp onto it. Ann Taylor
29:26
Speaker 1: is not a stupid lawyer. She knows her business. She
29:29
Speaker 1: knows her craft. And if there is any sort of
29:32
Speaker 1: wiggle room, she's going to look to maneuver and get
29:35
Speaker 1: Kohlberger in a place where he can use that maybe
29:38
Speaker 1: to try and, you know, throw a little bit of
29:41
Speaker 1: doubt in what the prosecution has collected. The house will
29:45
Speaker 1: be re-secured once officers complete this step in their investigation.
29:50
Speaker 1: The physical house will no longer be destroyed this semester,
29:53
Speaker 1: the university said. However, the intention to eventually demolish it remains. Well,
29:58
Speaker 1: that's fine. And I've said this before. Wait until the
30:02
Speaker 1: trial is over and then do whatever you want to
30:04
Speaker 1: do with that property. Drop a nuclear bomb on it
30:08
Speaker 1: for all I care. But for the trial portion and
30:11
Speaker 1: when investigators or the defense might need to access that
30:15
Speaker 1: house to get more information to keep things moving in
30:18
Speaker 1: the right direction, then that house should be there and
30:21
Speaker 1: be available for all of that to occur. And I'll
30:25
Speaker 1: tell you what. If I'm the defense and they find
30:28
Speaker 1: some new evidence in the house on this second search,
30:31
Speaker 1: I'm saying that somebody snuck in there and put that
30:34
Speaker 1: evidence there. Can anyone tell me with any confidence that
30:38
Speaker 1: nobody's been in that home? Now, look, they might have
30:41
Speaker 1: security and this, that, the other thing. What I'm talking
30:43
Speaker 1: about is a line of attack for Koberger's attorneys. And remember,
30:48
Speaker 1: all you have to do is get one juror to
30:50
Speaker 1: think that, hey, maybe there's something there. And then that
30:53
Speaker 1: can throw everything right into chaos. And while I doubt
30:56
Speaker 1: that that line of attack is going to be Brian
30:59
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's path to victory, it certainly gives them something else
31:02
Speaker 1: to talk about at the very least. Because the evidence
31:06
Speaker 1: that's been presented against him is super strong and it's
31:09
Speaker 1: all connected by that DNA. And once you have that
31:12
Speaker 1: DNA as the glue binding everything else together, you're looking
31:16
Speaker 1: at a very, very tough road. So if this house
31:20
Speaker 1: can prove to be something that is beneficial to Brian
31:23
Speaker 1: Koberger's team, you better believe they're going to try and
31:26
Speaker 1: maneuver to get themselves in a position where they can
31:30
Speaker 1: use it. And on the flip side, the prosecution, well,
31:34
Speaker 1: they're going to keep going and doing what they're doing.
31:36
Speaker 1: They're going to keep collecting the evidence. They're going to
31:39
Speaker 1: keep building out these timelines and they're going to do
31:41
Speaker 1: everything in their power to to keep that narrative going
31:44
Speaker 1: that Brian Koberger's the man that they've been telling us
31:47
Speaker 1: he is. But as far as evidence that's going to
31:49
Speaker 1: be found at the house now, I'm honestly stumped at
31:52
Speaker 1: what they think they're going to find. The pictures and
31:55
Speaker 1: the dimensions, all of that stuff, you would think that
31:58
Speaker 1: they'd know all of that already, right? Blueprints and this, that,
32:01
Speaker 1: virtual recreations, all of it. But my guess is there's
32:06
Speaker 1: something else going on here and we're just not privy
32:08
Speaker 1: to it. What that might be, I have no idea.
32:13
Speaker 1: Kohlberger is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of
32:15
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, 21, Madison Mogan, 21, Zanna Kernodle, 20, and
32:21
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin, 20. They were found stabbed to death in
32:24
Speaker 1: November of 2022 in the off-campus house near the University
32:29
Speaker 1: of Idaho. The deaths of the four students shocked the country,
32:33
Speaker 1: as initially there were few leads on what happened to
32:36
Speaker 1: the group. Not just the country, but the whole world.
32:40
Speaker 1: This was literally an event that the whole world was
32:43
Speaker 1: following along with and was captivated by because it's so relatable, right?
32:49
Speaker 1: How many of us went to college? How many of
32:51
Speaker 1: us have kids that are this age? So when something
32:54
Speaker 1: like this occurs, it's very relatable to people and people
32:58
Speaker 1: get entranced by it, if you will. And they want
33:01
Speaker 1: to see what happens. They want to know who is responsible.
33:04
Speaker 1: And most people want to see justice. Koberger was arrested
33:07
Speaker 1: at his parents' home in Pennsylvania after investigators used familial
33:11
Speaker 1: DNA to link Koberger to evidence found at the crime scene.
33:16
Speaker 1: His trial was initially set to begin October 2nd, but
33:19
Speaker 1: his team requested more time to review the evidence. A
33:23
Speaker 1: new trial date has not been set. So, some pretty
33:26
Speaker 1: interesting developments, and I'm guessing that over the next few days,
33:30
Speaker 1: the next day or so maybe, we're going to get
33:32
Speaker 1: a little more information. As far as what they're really
33:35
Speaker 1: looking for or what they're doing at that house, well,
33:39
Speaker 1: that's known only to the investigators. But whatever they're doing,
33:42
Speaker 1: it's certainly worth keeping an eye on. And that's what
33:45
Speaker 1: we'll be doing here on the podcast. All of the
33:48
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
33:52
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to
33:56
Speaker 1: the program. Today, we're going to talk a little bit
34:00
Speaker 1: more about the FBI heading back to the house in
34:04
Speaker 1: Moscow so that they could do their 3D imaging. Now,
34:07
Speaker 1: the house was due to be demolished after the murders,
34:10
Speaker 1: but that has been delayed now after Kohlberger waived his
34:13
Speaker 1: right to a speedy trial. And with this delay, it's
34:17
Speaker 1: allowed these investigators to go back there to create this
34:20
Speaker 1: 3D model. And the idea is to try and spare
34:24
Speaker 1: the jurors from having to take a trip out to
34:26
Speaker 1: the house themselves. Now, is that going to be successful,
34:30
Speaker 1: and is that going to be good enough for the jury?
34:32
Speaker 1: We don't know. But what the FBI is trying to
34:35
Speaker 1: do is have all of their ducks in a row
34:38
Speaker 1: before we get to a point where a jury even
34:41
Speaker 1: hears any of this. But right in the aftermath of
34:45
Speaker 1: the murders, they went in and did pretty much the
34:47
Speaker 1: same stuff. They had a 3D rendering made, and the
34:51
Speaker 1: analysts and the technicians spent a considerable amount of time
34:55
Speaker 1: at the crime scene. So you would think that during
34:58
Speaker 1: the first time around that they would have had all
35:00
Speaker 1: that testing done. But I guess now that they have
35:03
Speaker 1: this delay, they want to be more thorough. They want
35:06
Speaker 1: to make sure that they have everything that they possibly
35:08
Speaker 1: can get from this house. But considering what we've seen
35:12
Speaker 1: so far from Brian Koberger's defense team, we'll attempt to
35:15
Speaker 1: use this in Koberger's favor and point out that the
35:19
Speaker 1: FBI doesn't know what they're doing. That's what they'll assert. Well,
35:23
Speaker 1: why did they have to go back to this house
35:25
Speaker 1: for a second time? Why didn't they get all this
35:27
Speaker 1: testing done the first time around? And even if none
35:30
Speaker 1: of that sticks, that's certainly a narrative that the defense
35:34
Speaker 1: is going to try to pitch because remember, it's all
35:37
Speaker 1: about reasonable doubt. All you have to do is get
35:40
Speaker 1: one juror to believe the narrative that you're pitching. So
35:43
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team, they're going to grab onto whatever the
35:46
Speaker 1: hell they can to try and make that a reality.
35:50
Speaker 1: Today's article is from the Daily Mail and the headline,
35:54
Speaker 1: FBI spotted outside home. where four Idaho University students were
35:58
Speaker 1: massacred as they do 3D imaging of the crime scene
36:02
Speaker 1: for suspect Brian Kohlberger's eventual trial. This article was authored
36:08
Speaker 1: by Dominic Yeatman and Ruth Stiles. FBI agents have returned
36:14
Speaker 1: to collect more evidence from the house where Brian Kohlberger
36:18
Speaker 1: allegedly murdered four University of Idaho students after an order
36:23
Speaker 1: for its demolition was delayed. Investigators descended on the house
36:27
Speaker 1: in Moscow last week to take precise measurements of each
36:31
Speaker 1: room for 3D modeling that can be presented to the
36:35
Speaker 1: jury when the grisly case eventually goes to trial. Whenever
36:40
Speaker 1: that's going to be, considering the delay we have here,
36:43
Speaker 1: that's still up in the air. The university, which now
36:46
Speaker 1: owns the building, planned to demolish it after the hearing
36:50
Speaker 1: got underway, but That has been delayed by Kohlberger's decision
36:54
Speaker 1: to waive his right to a speedy trial, which has
36:56
Speaker 1: now allowed the FBI to build more of a case.
37:00
Speaker 1: So waiving his right to a speedy trial is most
37:02
Speaker 1: certainly a double-edged sword. While he gets more time to
37:07
Speaker 1: help with his defense, the FBI is also getting more
37:10
Speaker 1: time to continue to build their case. And considering the
37:13
Speaker 1: evidence we've seen already, the last thing Brian Kohlberger needs
37:17
Speaker 1: is more weight getting thrown on top of him. It
37:20
Speaker 1: also means that the jurors may be spared a visit
37:22
Speaker 1: to the house that was said to be dripping in
37:25
Speaker 1: blood and might have been ruled out if Kohlberger's attorneys
37:29
Speaker 1: believed it would prejudice his defense. Visual displays take months
37:33
Speaker 1: to build and were not feasible under the timeline of
37:37
Speaker 1: an October trial, the university said in a statement. I
37:41
Speaker 1: don't know if I buy that, honestly. They had ample
37:44
Speaker 1: time to make these renderings, to get these different, you know, measurements,
37:49
Speaker 1: build these 3D models. So while they're acting like this
37:52
Speaker 1: is just routine, my guess is something initiated this. What
37:56
Speaker 1: that something is, I have no idea. While the measurements
38:01
Speaker 1: and details needed to build a model were taken at
38:04
Speaker 1: the time of the initial investigation, the FBI is using
38:07
Speaker 1: this extended trial timeline to gather their own measurements and
38:11
Speaker 1: and images now that the personal property has been removed
38:15
Speaker 1: from the premises, it added. The former criminology student has
38:20
Speaker 1: been in jail since he was apprehended during a raid
38:23
Speaker 1: on his parents' Poconos Mountains, Pennsylvania home on December 30th
38:27
Speaker 1: before being flown back to Idaho in a small Pilatus
38:31
Speaker 1: PC-12 turboprop plane on January 4th. So with all this
38:36
Speaker 1: extra time, you know that the FBI renderings are going
38:39
Speaker 1: to be on point. And when they unleash their opening statement,
38:44
Speaker 1: meaning the prosecution, if history is any guide to us,
38:48
Speaker 1: it's going to be devastating for Brian Kohlberger. Think back
38:51
Speaker 1: to the Lori Vallow trial and think about the opening
38:54
Speaker 1: statement when the prosecutors just absolutely blasted her. That's what's
38:59
Speaker 1: going to happen here. And it's not only going to
39:01
Speaker 1: be people talking about what happened. There's going to be slideshows.
39:06
Speaker 1: There's going to be all different kinds of renderings and models.
39:10
Speaker 1: And the jury is going to get a full view
39:13
Speaker 1: of what the FBI believes happened. Prosecutors in the Gem
39:18
Speaker 1: State are looking to prove Koberger, 28, broke into the
39:21
Speaker 1: group's shared home in the early hours of November 13th
39:25
Speaker 1: last year before savagely murdering 21-year-old Madison Mogan. Kaylee Gonsalves,
39:31
Speaker 1: also 21, and 20-year-old Zanna Kernodle and Ethan Chapin. He
39:36
Speaker 1: had his latest bid for freedom denied on October 26th
39:40
Speaker 1: after he failed to have his indictment for murder overturned
39:43
Speaker 1: due to what he said were incorrect grand jury instructions.
39:47
Speaker 1: Good luck with that. That was never going to work
39:51
Speaker 1: And you can not like the grand jury. You can
39:53
Speaker 1: think that the grand jury is tilted in favor of
39:56
Speaker 1: the state. And I'd agree with you on both points.
39:59
Speaker 1: But with that said, these are the rules of the game.
40:02
Speaker 1: And since these are the rules of the game, these
40:04
Speaker 1: are the rules that have to be played by. So
40:06
Speaker 1: if the state thinks that a grand jury is the
40:09
Speaker 1: right way to go to get the indictment, then that's
40:11
Speaker 1: what they should be doing. Every single tool in the
40:14
Speaker 1: toolbox should be utilized. Five days later, a judge granted
40:18
Speaker 1: his attorneys a request that will allow them to review
40:22
Speaker 1: genetic genealogy evidence compiled against their client. Well, not so
40:26
Speaker 1: much evidence, right? It's how they got to that evidence.
40:30
Speaker 1: That's what they're going to get. And they're only going
40:32
Speaker 1: to get it after the judge has a look. So
40:35
Speaker 1: Judge Judge is going to take a look at all
40:37
Speaker 1: of the evidence that's going to be presented as far
40:40
Speaker 1: as IgG evidence, and then he'll determine what is going
40:45
Speaker 1: to be given over to to the defense. Because remember,
40:48
Speaker 1: you have Idaho code you have to live by. There's
40:51
Speaker 1: a lot that goes into this. And there's only so
40:53
Speaker 1: much that the defense is entitled to under those statutes.
40:58
Speaker 1: But knowing what we know about Judge Judge and the
41:01
Speaker 1: way that he's been overseeing this trial, my guess is
41:03
Speaker 1: that Koberger's team is going to get a lot of
41:06
Speaker 1: this information. Judge Judge has been more than fair with
41:10
Speaker 1: the defense here, so I expect him to at the
41:13
Speaker 1: very least give them a look at some of this
41:16
Speaker 1: IGG information that was collected along the way. The defense
41:20
Speaker 1: previously revealed that they would be contesting the notion that
41:24
Speaker 1: Koberger's DNA was left at the scene on the knife sheath.
41:28
Speaker 1: They also claim that DNA from three other unidentified men
41:33
Speaker 1: was also found at the Idaho murder scene. Well, that's
41:36
Speaker 1: easy to explain. A lot of people in that house.
41:39
Speaker 1: It's a party house. People are coming and going. How
41:43
Speaker 1: many of those unidentified DNA profiles were found on the
41:47
Speaker 1: knife sheath? Let's talk about that, counselor. So that's all
41:52
Speaker 1: a bunch of misdirection. Talking about the other DNA profiles
41:56
Speaker 1: and the rest of it. Look, I understand why his
41:58
Speaker 1: team would bring it up, but it's much ado about nothing.
42:02
Speaker 1: There's no way that that's even going to come into
42:04
Speaker 1: play here. Unless, of course, that DNA was found on
42:08
Speaker 1: the knife sheath. Then that makes it a whole different conversation.
42:11
Speaker 1: But without that DNA being found on the knife sheath,
42:14
Speaker 1: then that's pretty much just a moot point in my opinion.
42:18
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people in that house. We know
42:20
Speaker 1: it was a party house. We've seen multiple people coming
42:23
Speaker 1: and going. So while that sounds like it's something good
42:26
Speaker 1: for Brian Kohlberger, when you really get down to it
42:29
Speaker 1: and you look at it in context, I just don't
42:31
Speaker 1: think there's anything there. The defense also wants more information
42:35
Speaker 1: on how the FBI used the DNA to create family
42:38
Speaker 1: trees that led them to Kohlberger and his father in
42:42
Speaker 1: Scranton for his early morning arrest. So what they're trying
42:45
Speaker 1: to do is poke holes in the way that that
42:47
Speaker 1: was built. They want to make sure that all of
42:50
Speaker 1: the DOJ policy was followed. They want to make sure
42:53
Speaker 1: that the chain of custody was respected. And they want
42:57
Speaker 1: to make sure that there was no prosecutorial misconduct at all.
43:02
Speaker 1: That's what they're doing. Remember, folks, it's a game of
43:04
Speaker 1: loopholes and technicalities at this point for Brian Koberger. Koberger
43:09
Speaker 1: has been locked up at the Latah County Jail with
43:12
Speaker 1: prison sources telling DailyMail.com he spends his time obsessing over
43:16
Speaker 1: TV coverage of the case and has turned to God,
43:19
Speaker 1: meeting with a local pastor every Sunday. How come all
43:22
Speaker 1: of these people find God after they become brutal-ass murderers?
43:27
Speaker 1: Here's an idea. Find religion before you become a scumbag.
43:31
Speaker 1: The November 2022 killings shocked the tiny college town of Moscow,
43:35
Speaker 1: which had not seen a single murder for seven years
43:38
Speaker 1: when Madison, Kaylee, Ethan, and Zanna were found dead in
43:42
Speaker 1: their beds. Police initially appeared to be stumped by the
43:46
Speaker 1: murders and issued a series of contradictory statements over whether
43:50
Speaker 1: the students had been targeted and whether the public was
43:53
Speaker 1: at risk. And that was always my biggest criticism of
43:56
Speaker 1: what was going on here. The fact that the communication
44:00
Speaker 1: was terrible in the beginning made everything look like it
44:03
Speaker 1: was a shitshow. But thankfully behind the scenes, the police
44:06
Speaker 1: work that was being done was solid. But the whole
44:10
Speaker 1: entire communication portion of it, not so much. Shortly before Thanksgiving,
44:15
Speaker 1: they released a photo of a white Hyundai Elantra and
44:18
Speaker 1: a plea for further information about the vehicle's movements and
44:22
Speaker 1: its owner. The car turned out to belong to Koberger who,
44:26
Speaker 1: in an extraordinary twist, was pulled over twice while driving
44:29
Speaker 1: the vehicle back to Pennsylvania in early December. Since his arrest,
44:34
Speaker 1: it has emerged that loner Koberger had battled heroin addiction
44:38
Speaker 1: in his teens and early 20s and was banned from
44:41
Speaker 1: a bar near his parents' home due to his creepy
44:44
Speaker 1: behavior towards women. I'm honestly surprised that nobody busted his ass.
44:50
Speaker 1: You're at a bar acting creepy, chances are those girls,
44:53
Speaker 1: those women, they're going to be there with somebody, and
44:56
Speaker 1: that somebody might give you that smoke. Police sources have
45:01
Speaker 1: since said that following his move to Pullman, Washington to
45:04
Speaker 1: pursue a PhD in criminology, He applied to work for
45:08
Speaker 1: the Washington State University Police Department, but was turned down.
45:12
Speaker 1: How many of these serial killers wanted to be cops?
45:15
Speaker 1: Go all the way back to guys like Edmund Kemper.
45:17
Speaker 1: And what's scary is how many sickos have slipped through
45:20
Speaker 1: the cracks to become officers of the law. Fellow students
45:25
Speaker 1: said he took an unusual amount of interest in the
45:27
Speaker 1: Moscow murder case and described his sexist attitude towards women
45:32
Speaker 1: in his classes. as a result of his rude behavior
45:35
Speaker 1: towards women and his penchant for grading them differently, he
45:39
Speaker 1: was fired by his professor at the WSU criminology department,
45:43
Speaker 1: John Snyder, on December 19th, just days before his arrest
45:47
Speaker 1: for murder. And he totally was spiraling at this point.
45:51
Speaker 1: If you go back and you read all the accounts
45:53
Speaker 1: from all of the people that knew him, students, friends, neighbors, whatever,
45:57
Speaker 1: oh boy, it was definitely spiraling right here. And he
46:00
Speaker 1: was probably worried about the repercussions. Remember, Brian Kohlberger allegedly
46:07
Speaker 1: murdered four people. But, in my opinion, he only went
46:10
Speaker 1: there to murder one. A Dateline report provided further evidence
46:14
Speaker 1: of his bizarre behavior with a female friend at Washington
46:18
Speaker 1: State University claiming he broke into her home a month
46:21
Speaker 1: before the murders and moved her possessions about to make
46:25
Speaker 1: her feel uneasy. Now, what kind of weirdo does that? Yeah,
46:29
Speaker 1: let me go ahead and break into your house and
46:31
Speaker 1: do a little bit of redecorating. Yeah, you're not weird
46:33
Speaker 1: or anything, buddy. She also said she had asked him
46:37
Speaker 1: to set up security cameras to help her catch the
46:39
Speaker 1: person who had moved her belongings, only to belatedly realize
46:44
Speaker 1: he was the culprit and chillingly had enjoyed access to
46:47
Speaker 1: the footage. Kohlberger is believed to have meticulously planned the
46:52
Speaker 1: murders of Madison, Kaylee, Ethan, and Zanna with a probable
46:56
Speaker 1: cause affidavit noting that he repeatedly visited the area around
47:01
Speaker 1: their home prior to the killings. The document also said
47:05
Speaker 1: his DNA found on a K-bar knife sheath found next
47:08
Speaker 1: to the bodies of Kaylee and Madison and that he
47:11
Speaker 1: was seen in the home by a roommate, Dylan Mortensen,
47:14
Speaker 1: who was 19. Well, she saw somebody and that somebody
47:18
Speaker 1: resembles Brian Kohlberger. How far that goes at trial, that's
47:22
Speaker 1: up to the jury. Kaylee and Madison were discovered dead
47:25
Speaker 1: in the bed next to each other, while Ethan and
47:28
Speaker 1: Zanna were found on the floor below, with Zanna discovered
47:31
Speaker 1: slumped over on the floor of her bedroom. According to
47:36
Speaker 1: the documents, survivors Mortensen and Bethany Funk heard something of
47:40
Speaker 1: what happened, with Mortensen telling cops she heard Gonsalves say,
47:44
Speaker 1: there's someone here at approximately 4 a.m. Ten minutes later,
47:50
Speaker 1: she heard a thud and crying from Zanna's room, and
47:53
Speaker 1: a male voice saying, it's okay, I'm going to help you.
47:56
Speaker 1: What a sick, degenerate bastard. I'm going to help you?
48:00
Speaker 1: If Brian Kohlberger's convicted of these murders, I hope that's
48:03
Speaker 1: what his cellmate says to him. Oh, don't worry, buddy,
48:06
Speaker 1: I'm here to help you. And speaking of cellmates, I
48:09
Speaker 1: hear that Larry Nassar's former cellmate is looking for a
48:12
Speaker 1: new bunkie. At 4.17am, a dog was captured barking loudly
48:17
Speaker 1: on a neighbor's security camera. Around the same time, Mortensen
48:21
Speaker 1: said she opened her bedroom door again and saw a
48:24
Speaker 1: tall male with bushy eyebrows leaving through the sliding glass
48:27
Speaker 1: doors at the back of the home. She described how
48:31
Speaker 1: she had been frozen in shock as the black-clad male
48:34
Speaker 1: walked towards her and said she locked herself in her
48:37
Speaker 1: room after he left. A shoe print was later found
48:41
Speaker 1: outside her door. The affidavit also reveals that Kohlberger's white
48:45
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra was captured on camera near the scene before
48:50
Speaker 1: being seen driving rapidly away from the home towards Pullman
48:53
Speaker 1: at approximately 4.20 a.m. Police rapidly connected the vehicle to
48:58
Speaker 1: Koberger and noted the similarity between his appearance and Mortensen's
49:03
Speaker 1: description of the intruder at the rental home. So things
49:07
Speaker 1: are certainly still moving over here in Idaho. And the
49:10
Speaker 1: FBI is certainly still building their case behind the scenes.
49:14
Speaker 1: The question is, what else are they up to? And unfortunately,
49:17
Speaker 1: we're not going to have that answer for some time.
49:20
Speaker 1: But the fact that they're still there, the fact that
49:23
Speaker 1: they're building more renderings, the fact that they have more
49:26
Speaker 1: time to really advance this ball across the goal line,
49:30
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't bode well for Brian Kohlberger. All right, everybody,
49:35
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
49:37
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
49:40
Speaker 1: in the description box.