Latest / Epic Entrepreneurs / Recognition Turns Wellness Programs Into A Habit with Leonora Cherry, Zen and Zest Wellness Solutions LLC

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Recognition Turns Wellness Programs Into A Habit with Leonora Cherry, Zen and Zest Wellness Solutions LLC · Epic Entrepreneurs

• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I am Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners to turn big ideas into real scalable growth.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm excited to be joined by Nori Cherry, professionally known as Nori, founder of Zen and Zest Wellness Solutions in Chesapeake, Virginia.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Nori, how are you doing today?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am doing well, Cliff.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing wonderful.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Really, really blessed and really excited to have you on.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, let's go ahead and jump right into it if you don't mind.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, Nori, what do you provide for uh Chesapeake, Virginia, and beyond, you know, what it would your business do for everybody?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So Zen Obsessed Wellness Solutions is a wellness consulting firm, and we provide wellness initiatives for organizations, such as our workplace wellness programs, where we can do a complete wellness program starting from whether that's an incentivized program or not.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: We support the organization in establishing just some guidelines for what their wellness program looks like, meaning if they want to have their employees get annual physicals, participate in any type of work uh site wellness challenges, walking challenges, uh, we do recycling challenges down to helping the organization lower the rising cost of health care.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: We do mental health first aid training, we do resilience training, uh, with stress and burnout.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we can pretty much tailor our services to every need of uh any organization, whether they're small or large.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have direct services that we offer just to the community, someone who may be, you know, notice that someone in their community may be struggling with a mental health challenge.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we can certify them in mental health first aid to be able to recognize the signs and symptoms of when someone is struggling from a mental health or substance abuse challenge.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that is on an organizational level as well as an individual level within the community.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we we're pretty much a one-stop shop.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: We do some mental health, not mental health, I'm sorry, we do some color therapy workshops as well.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And those are community-based as well as within organizations.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and who is Nori Cherry?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: What do you have going on personally?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Nori Cherry.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am uh I am married um to my amazing husband Eric, and we have a total of because we're a blended family, so we have four children and ten grandchildren.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, we have six children because we've uh taken my sister passed away.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So her two children are are our two children now, and everybody they're all adults with their own children.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got six kids, ten grandchildren all together.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So our our life stays pretty busy, but we like to golf, we like to bowl, we like to travel, and that's what we do outside of you know, supporting our community through the wellness consulting firm.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'm sorry to hear that about your your sister.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome that you took them on, though.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: That you took on her kids for.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: They were they were adults when she passed away, but that is actually what started me, Cliff, down this road of the path of wellness.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: When my sister, when my sister was diagnosed with glioblastoma brain cancer, I was searching for a graduate program because my undergraduate degree was in general education.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what's that?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Where you working?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was looking for a niche, something specific, and I found the wellness and lifestyle management graduate program through Rowan University.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that program really was what helped me get through the traumatic event of caring for and losing my sister.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the work I do is not just by accident, should I say.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: It it really has become a true passion of mine just for hair helping and caring for for people.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and honestly, with it with that, you just answered the first couple of questions.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate that.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of got into some of your background there and then kind of how you got started.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, so I mean, you know, Jerry, uh, you know, Nori, tell me a little bit about this.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of workplace wellness programs kind of struggle because employees do not engage.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice that a lot?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely notice that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I can tell you from my experience is employees need some motivation or incentive to thrive in a wellness program in order for them to participate.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the incentive does not necessarily have to be monetary, as you know, it is human nature.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be acknowledged, we want to be rewarded for the good things that we do.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, one organization I partnered with, they have an amazing, you know, monetary incentive.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the easy thing to do.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: But organizations can do things just like acknowledging the the employee of the month, right?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: The the employee who went and got their annual wellness checkups, you know, you create a leaderboard.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I can remember having a challenge for individuals getting their annual physicals uploaded before the end of the quarter.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it it was a struggle initially, and then when I said, hey, I'm creating my you know recognition board for everyone who emails me and tells me by this date that you've completed your annual physical, the the company company wide, you will be recognized.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just that simple.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they all started flooding in.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it is it is human nature that we want to be recognized and rewarded.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think if you have a wellness program that is intentional to support the employee and meet them where they are based on their culture, it has to be, you know, definitely meet each and every group of, you know, the the diverse amount of people within your organization.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: It can't be cookie cut, but for sure, when you recognize individuals, you will definitely get more more engagement.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and I found that this one organization, it is a culture.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not even cool if you're not a part of the wellness program.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're gonna get into the real, you know, kind of the real nitty-gritty of the business and kind of what really people want to hear.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because we do have a pretty solid entrepreneurial audience that listens to the podcast every week.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I know this, I know this question will help a lot of people who listen.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, Nori, can you tell me what is the biggest challenge you you would think your business is facing right now?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say uh the biggest challenge I would say Zen and Zess is facing is uh awareness.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we are not as humans, we we're in a autopilot mode, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we just get through to the next moment, to the next moment, to the next moment.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we are not very proactive, we are predominantly a culture of reactive, right?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: We react when something happens, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then we realize that, oh, we need these supports, oh, we need mental health, you know, we need support with that, or our employees are, you know, they're stressed and burnout.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if if organizations could be more aware that we're all in this together, and as long as you're on this earth, you're gonna experience all of these scenarios, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: With burnout, with, you know, I do a presentation on aging gracefully, supporting your elderly parents.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like as long as we're here, these things are gonna happen.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if I could make organizations more aware of, you know, I know everybody's trying to meet their bottom line, they're engaged in their bus day-to-day business, but if you put the proper cushions and supports in place to take care of your employees' well-being, then when these crises hit, you won't find the burnout, you won't find that increase in turnover, you won't find the lack of productivity within your organization because you've prepared your employees throughout the year.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you believe is preventing the business from reaching its full potential or reaching the next level?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is that kind of going a little bit?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: My my personal business.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I go back to to the to to being able to make organizations aware that this service exists and what the the benefits of the services are.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and another, you know, blocker I think is that organizations will think that's not in our budget.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: We can't afford a wellness program.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so that kind of turns the you know, all these things are great, Nori, but we can't afford it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so with Zen and Zest, I also offer a virtual wellness platform that saves the employee, it's an at no net cost to the employer, and the employer actually gets back about six hundred and forty dollars per year per employee that participates in the program.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the employee gets back about twelve hundred dollars a year, and this is twofold.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they could let me back up a little bit.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So this program requires that an employer has 10 full-time W-2 employees making at least$35,000 a year, and that they are providing health insurance to those employees.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So as long as they've they've met those requirements, that is where they can free up those dollars to be able to fund a wellness program for their employees.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: But on top of that, you now have this virtual wellness platform where your employees are no longer going to the doctor using their deductible for that three-month checkup, for the cold, for the flu, for, you know, Johnny has asthma, and we're always going to you know get a refill.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: For all those little or maybe it's a little urgent care situation that doesn't require like an x ray, a cast, or anything of that nature.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can use this platform to virtually, you know how we did when we went with COVID, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: You you there's an app, you log in, you pick your primary care doctor.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is who you will see regularly, so it's not like doc in a box.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can build a relationship with your doctor, and then you save your deductible for emergencies, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you save that for a planned surgery or your child fell on broken arm at, you know, at school.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta go to the emergency room.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's where that deductible will apply.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you don't have to use your deductible throughout the year for prescriptions.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: They can be delivered straight to your home, free of charge, because you were participating in this program.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I can help employers be able to fund a wellness program to provide those additional services I spoke about, the mental health first aid training.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we can do wellness fairs, we can do lunch and learns, weekly or monthly newsletters, keeping employees on top of, hey, what is the latest health trend for hypertension or diabetes?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it there is plenty of opportunity to fund a wellness program, but again, like I said, the the blocker for me is getting an employer to really sit down and and analyze and assess the well-being of their employees.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, you know, and I want you to kind of be honest with this.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what is something people assume is easy about running this type of business that is actually very difficult?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Something people assume I I think people assume running most businesses are easy.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but especially in the wellness industry, again, because like I said, people are on autopilot and they think they they get the impression that this is wellness is a luxury.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like and and I'm gonna relate it to massage therapy, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a treat.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that we do when we have time to do it.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that isn't so.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it there's a lot of hard work that goes into you know providing evidence-based content, you know, to organizations, to companies.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it isn't something that you just come up with and say, hey, I'm gonna try this.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everything that every service that I offer is eviden backed by evidence-based studies, and it requires a lot of research, a lot of commitment, and a lot of conversations to get organizations and individuals to see that your well-being should always be a priority.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you you support mental, physical, emotional, social, and financial well-being.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: How do you keep that breath from becoming confusing in your marketing or sales process?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I really just try to define it as as how we view ourselves, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So using the dimensions of wellness, just we are, you know, we all have a financial life.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have physical, emotional, and uh, and spiritual.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just compartmentalize all of them pretty much the way we do in in life.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in one of the things, and I'm I'm gonna share this with you, Cliff, just being totally transparent.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: That agenda that I I mentioned to you, I was creating the agenda.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I have an agenda for for my home, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So just the same way that I run my business, my goal is to run my home the same way.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I I view this with even my clientele.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: You said, how do I compartmentalize?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe that every area of our life should have a department, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just like in an organization, you have HR, right?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the EAP service, you've got, you know, every organization has different departments for different needs of the organization, the finance department, the payroll, the accounting.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the same way that I compartmentalize my organ my business.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it may be that an organization only needs one portion of the services that I offer, and that's what we focus on for that organization.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, having a business like this, have you had to change something about your personality type or maybe about your personal life?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Have you had to do anything like that in order for your business to start growing?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Or were you good for it right off the bat?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I so I I I feel like this is what I was born to do.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Even as a kid, I've always been health conscious, mindful of my physical well-being.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can remember asking my mom to buy me, I don't know if you remember that if if I'm telling my age, but the total gym was was a thing that you could, it was a you know, a total gym, literally, that you could mount to a wall in your home and you could work out right at the house.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I was maybe 15, 14, uh, and that's all I wanted for Christmas.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, most of the time I just looked at it and dusted it off.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but it was always a desire for health and wellness as a young person.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, when you are if you're an accountant, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: No one knows if the accountant's books are right or not, because that's a private personal thing.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: When you're in this industry, everyone is looking at you and and diagnosing your well-being.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you look like, do you look the part?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are you speaking the part?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are you know are you really living the part?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I've learned that this profession is it's pretty transparent, almost almost like uh the express expectation of your pastor at church, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: You expect certain things because that's the title you wear.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize I signed up for that until uh I started working with different organizations.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they when I come in, they're like, oh, wellness is here.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if I have a cookie in my hand, that's not wellness, you know.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get you don't get to you don't get many passes.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'll say.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, about how many hours are you are you working in and on the business right now?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: A week?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this particular week, Cliff, I'm probably we'll get about 60 hours in.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's because we are preparing for an event for uh the wellness expo over at Norfolk State University.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: We will be we're preparing to do a color therapy session with their faculty and staff members as they come back for the new uh school year.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So so this is a pretty big event for us.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So all hands on deck, we're preparing for that event.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this will be a pretty heavy week.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But on average, I would say maybe 40, 45 hours a week.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not too bad.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, and uh the in this next question, it's a little tough to look from the outside in, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, do you have any employees right now, or is it just you?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so right now there's myself and my husband is my partner, my silent partner, we'll say.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um he uh he helps, you know, as I need in in terms of preparing and and counting inventory and packing and you know, setting up for an event.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I do contract out for this particular upcoming event.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I will have a contracted partner who will participate and assist me in this event.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it it just depends on the size.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of virtual work, so that makes it easier for me.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to necessarily travel set up unless I'm on site.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um I would say right now about 80% of my work is virtual.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So so it makes for just myself, but I do partner with several other business owners, educational institutions.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm also partnering with an assistant professor over at Hampton University.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: We are working on an initiative to be able to offer Narcan and mental health first aid uh training to higher education students as well as high school students.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of partners, but in with Zen and Zest, it's pretty much solely myself.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess then we can kind of frame this question in as let's, you know, let's say we go to one of those folks, right, that's worked with you pretty closely in the past, and let's say they I we ask them, you know, what is Nori's greatest strength as a business owner?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think they would tell us?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think they would tell you resilient.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: My my ability to to kind of bounce back, to be agile and flexible and kind of just adjust and redirect when when necessary.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, that's fair.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then now on the flip side of that, let's go to the flip side of that.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, let's say if we asked them, you know, what is what is a leadership or business skill that Nori could improve on?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think they would tell us?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Delegating.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think they would say delegating.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: If if if yeah, if I had a business partner here, and I also I had a business coach previously who who would probably say the same thing is to delegate, to know when to bring in a contractor for for that additional support or ask for help from those around me.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to kind of carry it all.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that that that is one skill that I'm looking to improve.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, that's fair.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate you getting transparent and kind of getting a little vulnerable there.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you emphasize that wellness can.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: not be one size fits all.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to I want to get into kind of the customization programs and stuff.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you customize programs without making every engagement difficult to price and deliver?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in customizing, I really need I do an assessment with the organization once we meet, sit down before I create their proposals just to have a very relaxed general conversation so that I can understand the nature and culture of the organization.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then if we're going to proceed, then I I you know depending on what direction they would like to take the program in is is how I kind of customize to their specific level of of service.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll give you an example let's say we you know the organization says hey you know our health insurance is really increased over the past three years.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: We've noticed that we've got a lot more employees who have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and hypertension.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there we do an assessment of just about how how what what are those numbers like who are those people?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are they men?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are they women?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's the age group that they're falling under and then we create a program around that right and so let's say example they're males between the age of 40 and 55 and so that is our target our audience right and then we find out what what type of organization is this you know is it higher education is it a construction company and so based on the the the level of skill set with the employees and and how they best might learn right so we know that construction company hey they are very good with their hands right and they're probably very good with contracts and understanding how they're developed in higher education maybe hey they're they're more likely to receive uh presentations in more of a lecture environment and so we tailor and cater it to what those individuals need.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: The construction company we may actually create a a program around ergonomics right so that they can start to see some results throughout their day if we teach them some things that they can do in terms of movement uh throughout their day.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: The educational setting we may set up lunch and learns for them and go over some nutrition and better ways that they can get in the physical activity but also focus on you know some of their nutrition so those are just two different ways that that you could deliver the same service.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Those two services don't that they won't necessarily cost anymore.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just how will we deliver and meet the employee where they are okay okay now let's get into kind of your I guess competitors or you know other providers so why do customers choose you instead of another provider would you say so I feel like instead of another provider we we offer everything from again like I said what stops most companies in my profession from getting in the door is because an organization will say it's not in the budget and there's no emergent need for it.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not going to offer the opportunity whereas with Zen and Zest we say hey we can we can support you from the health insurance aspect of you know what let's lower the cost of of using that annual deductible if we're not touching that your insurance is is going to drop by default but also we're going to be able to give you back some some funds that are you know this is at a no net cost to the employer the program uh and then we can allocate those funds again either to your bottom line or toward in developing a wellness program.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's what I think that's the number one thing that sets us apart is that we can save the employer on their utilization of their health insurance deductible for their employers employees and we can actually provide a no net cost program to the employer.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay okay all right so I appreciate that so we're going to head into what's called the this or that round so how this works is I'm gonna give you two choices this or that and I want you to choose one and then tell me why you chose that kind of give me a little paragraph on why you chose it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Good way to learn about your your personality a little bit and kind of your personal side a little bit.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right oh okay sounds fun let's go all right so first one is beach or mountains and why oh beach beach beach beach the beach is where that's my zen place that's where I go and create my best ideas um it's where I go and relax it's where I I just feel like the the water the sand and my body just all connect um that that's that's my home right there.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Netflix or YouTube?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Netflix I am not a big TV movie television watcher but I would say every now and then I like a nice Netflix series.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now getting into that a little bit more with it with your Netflix series so is that reality TV or true crime?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Neither so Netflix I'm trying to think of a couple of series that I've watched on Netflix.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are funny you know the girlfriends episodes I think Brooklyn might be one I can't and I'm terrible with names I just my husband finds them and he's like I think this might be one that you'll like because I am I'm more of a comedy watcher lighthearted things I'm not a don't do well with the crime and and you know the mystery and trying to figure out who did what maybe a little drama in there but mostly lighthearted funny or love stories but I'm not not big on the crime thing.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee or tea?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Tea I will I will have a cup of coffee but I am a tea 247 yeah I can I can go for tea again that's another zen that is there's so many health benefits to I'm a green tea drinker primarily it's calming it's relaxing it's it's kind of like a safe feeling if I'm holding a tea mug it it's it provides a sense of security and calmness for me.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Early bird or night owl?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a tweener tweener okay yeah not not super early and not super late I would say early for me is 6 30 but for some folks that's late and then late for me is 11 1130 and and and honestly I being again totally transparent this past week burning the candle at both ends so I'm I'm exceeding both of them this week but that is not a norm.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay dogs or cats dogs always the dogs funny story my sister was always petrified of cats and I think it's because my cousin scared her as a kid but the her fear not only did it it you know did I take it on but her children took it on and my children took it on and so like we got this whole family thing with cats and we don't know why there's no rhyme or reason.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot tell you a cat has ever done anything to me but I'm afraid of them and I don't really care for them.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I love dog I actually have always had a dog.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have a I have my baby now who's at the groomer so yeah we're dog people okay okay summer or winter I think I know the answer here oh you know summer because we gotta be on the beach I figured I figured do you not like doing so you don't like winter at all nothing you don't care for it.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh you know what I I I embrace it you know I I when my children were younger we would take them snowboarding and you know do the the snow tubing and all that we I embrace it but I am much more a summer person you know I I kind of get through the winter because I have to yeah you don't have a choice exactly it's coming yeah Apple or Android Apple yeah it's just easier to in my mind right for me it's easier to use it's just it's just a majority you know thing that's what most people are using so it in in my world because that might not be a true statement so it's easier for me to connect I love the fact that I can just hit FaceTime and see all my babies' faces when I need because everybody's got an iPhone yeah sweet or salty salty not big on sweets okay hey don't get that too often most people say sweet no not I mean I'm not saying I won't eat a cookie I told you I got caught eating a cookie but if I have to go with anything it's gonna be salt salty and savory okay cook at home or eat out well in theory cook at home because that's that's what I prefer my lifestyle often will push the eat out.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: So basically if you had the if you had enough time you would cook at home in ideal situation but most of the time you you've got things to do and you have to be out right so when I have time to do the meal prepping on Sunday it's a great week.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't it's a sketchy kind of week.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah I'd prefer the best thing to do anyone listening best thing to do is cook at home because it's less processed and you know what you put in your food.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly by far.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: But again full transparency it does not always work that way but I try to make the best choices when I'm not able to be at home.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah you're right yeah you know what you put in your food and you know that you know you it's your hands it's your you know because you know some people don't like to wash their hands with me.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't you know I don't I know you eat out a lot let me not do that to you know see the videos of people coming out of the bathroom not washing uh yeah yeah yeah that is that is what I I try to tell my husband but if he had it his way well we just eat out uh all every day all day yeah no no thanks I love I love it and plus it's just this is a passion that comes from when somebody cooks it for you rather than you know somebody that you love cooks it for you rather than somebody you don't know I don't know there's something about that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yes agreed now getting into kind of some of the business ones here so would you prefer a text or a phone call when it comes to business oh that's hard.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh Cliff I'm gonna say a text because then I can go back and read it.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: However I like the phone call if things get a little confusing.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and and just a short story prime example one of my vendors sent me over a template for something she's working on for me.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept looking at I'm like why this is the same thing why I don't understand.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it you know we were emailing back and forth and she's like no it's not and I'm like but yes it is so finally we jumped on a call and it was as simple as I didn't scroll down to the second page but she's never sent me a template that was two pages.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So so it's things like that.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like words can really be difficult to understand although it is nice to have because you can revert back to it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I I prefer text as long as we're all on the same page.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay healthy mind or health healthy body healthy mind because a healthy mind allows you to have a healthy body it's kind of the two go hand in hand.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if I have a healthy body then that probably means my mind is in a good place.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah you're definitely right unlimited referrals or unlimited marketing budget unlimited referrals because I can work out the budget as long as those referrals keep coming okay okay and then the last one is dream home or dream vacation?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Dream home because I can turn home into a vacation and it's mine.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you know like like you said right you're you're in your home all the time you know obviously you said you like you said you work remote a lot so you're in your home probably quite a bit so you want that home to feel feel great and that's where you're gonna be at most of the time.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yep and that vacation it becomes a memory so I I prefer to make home very comfortable make it your oasis and then you're always on vacation.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that's very true.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's very true.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: All right so you know just a last couple of questions here.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you know what's next for Zen and Zesta wellness?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: What should people be excited about coming up in the near future for your business?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: So as I mentioned to you coming up in the near future we're doing the Norfolk State University will be at their wellness expo next Thursday.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: We have some upcoming mental health first date trainings on the 20 the 20th of uh August so that'll be a virtual training that we're doing we are looking to continue our relationship with Hampton University and if I had to say Cliff uh I was the the the best referrals for me right now would be from educational institutions any small organizations and when I say small I'm talking up to about 12 to 1500 employees from anything from 10 to about 1500 employees just looking to support them rather it's in a full wellness program or just some work site wellness maybe it might just be a wellness week maybe it's just a training around resilience and stress and burnout so those are the things I have upcoming in my pipeline but I'm certainly looking for the opportunity for referrals.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: All right so and then you know as far as you know this I want you to be as kind of honest and candid as you can but you know like I told you earlier we have a pretty large entrepreneurial audience here that listens to our podcast every week.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you know let's say you know you're a business owner listening to the podcast episode with you today, Nori and let's say you're just having a tough 2026 right just you know you work in a trades business you just had to lay someone off because you just don't have enough work for them.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: So unfortunately you know right before you know the swing of things right we're heading into the the colder months holidays coming up right you had to lay someone off of course and they have four kids tough for you to do but you just didn't have any work for them so you can't keep paying them and you're just having a tough 2026 so far just not profitable and you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's a piece of advice you'd give to that small entrepreneur today well a piece of advice I would give to that small entrepreneur is a piece of advice that I I I take for myself and I've recently just restarted again.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a book that I would that I would suggest and that book is Dare to Lead by Brene Brown.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I am a fanatic fan of Brene Brown's but that book and speaks to just what you said when you have to make those tough decisions or business isn't going as you planned and you have to pivot the book just gives you the the the tools to be able to lead effectively and communicate with your employees not just your employees like in relationship in general just helps you be able to be resilient you know be vulnerable have compassion for yourself that that probably be the number one thing I would say to someone is to care and respect your your personal self the same way you do for someone that you love right and so when when someone we care about uh is going through a tough time we offer them support we we don't you know generally beat them down and make them feel even worse we support them and we uplift them and we encourage them to to let them know that you know it's okay to make a mistake it's okay for things to not go well but be resilient and and stay focused your your passion is your passion and you know staying true to it is is what counts so that that book is phenomenal comes with you know so many different exercises to support you in in in that resiliency and and it allows the leader to make themselves vulnerable um and you've mentioned that word a few times cliff and I really appreciate that because vulnerability is is there's so many it's packed right you it it's that is a loaded word and reading that book will help any business owner or an individual learn how to be a vulnerable leader but not vulnerability is always or often seen as a weakness and it's actually a strength.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's what I have that's that's my takeaway that I would leave to someone is to to grab that book and dissect it.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: All right Nori well thank you again for joining us and and for sharing your real story behind Zen and Z Well and the solutions we wish continued success in the future for you and your company.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: To everyone listening be sure to connect with our guests using the information shared today.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: We will include all the social media in the description and follow up Epic Entrepreneurs on all of our social media for more conversations with people building businesses and the communities every day.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Nori, any last words for the audience before we go to sign off I think Cliff the the the last thing I would like to leave with the audience is we're all in this together.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: We all go through difficult times.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: We also go through great times and just remember to find the balance in your life and to be proactive opposed to reactive.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: All right heard you Nori so yeah this is Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next time.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.