Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Episode 6_ What does it mean to evangelize

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Episode 6_ What does it mean to evangelize · INSPIRE STORY

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody to another Spire podcast.
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Speaker 2: My name is Fulton, my.
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Speaker 1: Name is Nick, my name is Michael, and we just
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want to thank you for taking the time out of
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your day to listen to this podcast. We are currently
0:19
on the last of the five Spire letters. So we've
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gone through spiritual, We've gone through physical, intellectual, relational.
0:30
Speaker 2: And now we are on the big eie.
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Speaker 3: The big e.
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, evangelical. So we've done our podcast talking about
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prayer for spiritual, physical, intellectual, relational, and all of those
0:46
are meant to flow into evangelical. The whole point of Spire.
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It is not a self help self improvement program. It
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is a way of looking at your day to day
1:00
life and planning and mapping it out in such a
1:02
way as to result in evangelizing the people around you
1:09
and growing us in a sense of who you are
1:12
and who God is and your relationship with Him. So
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to start us off, I'm gonna lead us in a prayer.
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Father Son, Holy Spirit, Come, Holy Spirit. We ask you
1:26
to guide this conversation Mary, pick up the places where
1:30
we fall short, help it to bear fruit and to
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be of value to whoever listens, and to bless them,
1:39
to Bless us as we have a conversation. Bless everybody
1:43
as we prepare for the Christmas season, and be with us.
1:49
Help us to know ourselves and to know you.
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Speaker 2: Amen.
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Speaker 3: Amen?
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Speaker 2: All right. To start us off, I thought what would
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be fun is.
2:01
Speaker 3: I'm always scared.
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Speaker 2: Here's the definition of evangelize.
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Speaker 1: You guys tell me your first feelings of it.
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Speaker 4: It is just like Webster Dictionary definition Oxford.
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Speaker 2: Fancy here I could go to Webster.
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Speaker 3: I just need to know my sources.
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Speaker 2: Convert, convert or seek to convert someone to Christianity, preach
2:26
the Christian Gospel.
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Speaker 5: Wait, so it's like specifically just focused on a Christian.
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Speaker 1: Well, the similar word was to preach the Christian Gospel.
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Maybe that's not no, Yeah, yeah, that's like the second definition. Okay,
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how do you guys feel about that? What do you
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what do you feel and what do you think of
2:45
when you hear evangelize?
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Speaker 5: I mean that definition just seems very basically straightforward. It
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doesn't really encompass the power through which it it can happen.
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It just kind of he has the basics of fundamentally,
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what is this doing. It's spreading the word. So yeah,
3:07
it just that just makes me think oh, okay.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay. I think that the thing that sticks out
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to me, and that is that it has a focus
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on it's focused specifically on conversion and preaching the gospel,
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which it that is what it is. But at the
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same time, hopefully as we go we'll kind of expand
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on this. But I don't think I don't think it
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necessarily has to look like going out and standing on
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the street and preaching the gospel and you know, the
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repent or die kind when you're evangelized. I feel like
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that's kind of that's not what I personally think of,
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but I think that that's kind of the general image
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of it that's been perpetual.
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Speaker 5: Honestly, it's what I think of, even though I know
4:02
there's much more to it than that. When I hear
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oh evangelize, it's like, oh, you should go out and evangelize, Like, yeah,
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I don't want to do that.
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Speaker 3: That sounds scary.
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Speaker 2: I know.
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Speaker 1: All I think about is, okay, I need to, like
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I need to go talk to someone and try to
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convince them that I've got the best argument, and they
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don't really want to hear it.
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Speaker 2: Anyway, But it's like I have to, all right, you know, Yeah,
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that's my that's kind of my feeling from it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that actually, you know what, we'll we'll
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get to that in a second, because I don't want
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to just kind of jump right in. So, okay, talk
4:32
about like how each do it first.
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Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to also get your take on this.
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Speaker 1: This is the Catholic definition of evangelization.
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Speaker 3: It's probably in this book that.
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Speaker 1: That one is actually so that so the Catechism version
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is the goal of evangelization is the conversion of another,
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which leads to them becoming a disciple.
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Speaker 2: Follower of Jesus.
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Speaker 1: But I think something that's a little bit gives it
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fuller picture is evangelization me bringing the good News of
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Jesus into every human situation and seeking to convert individuals
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in society by the divine power of the Gospel itself.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I like that a lot better.
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Speaker 2: I actually like that better.
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Speaker 4: Okay, so capture first of all, it it mentions spreading
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the good news of Jesus, Like obviously that is what
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the gospel is. But I think if you just say
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preaching the Christian Gospel versus spreading the good News of Jesus,
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that kind I feel like in my mind at least
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it kind of paints a different picture. And then also,
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what was the second half, I'm blinking.
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Speaker 2: Seeking to convert individuals in society by the divine power.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it also creates a distinction between you converting
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people and God converting people through you potentially and through
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your actions through your words, because at the end of
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the day, we can't convert anybody. And I want to
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talk about this, so I was thinking about this earlier actually,
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but so we can't convert anybody, but God can can
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convert people through us. And I think that's just like overall,
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that feels like it's a much more full and kind
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of all encompassing definition.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I just think that definition brings in the emotion
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of it a bit more than the other one. The
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other one just was kind of soulless, like it's technically true,
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but this one just really brings in like the purpose
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of it. It's a more personal emotional connection.
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Speaker 6: Uh.
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Speaker 5: And I just really love how that one just you know,
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had the two parts. So it is the little conversion.
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So it's not just it's not just bringing the good news,
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it's also with the intent of converting. And I would
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say that it's like the converting the hearts, not just
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the mind.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's not so much like you
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need to go out and get more people on your team,
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like you're hiring or giving a sales pitch, and the
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higher numbers you get, the more.
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Speaker 2: The bigger bonus you get at the end of the year.
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Speaker 1: I like that it's more of a it's almost sharing
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a way of seeing and experiencing life that gives you
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something much more full and rich and real as opposed
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to service level. So how if you could give me
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in one sentence, how would you define evangelization in the
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way that you think about it when you're doing your
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spire every day.
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Speaker 5: I would say that evangelization is the sharing of who
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Christ is and the love that He brings, and through that,
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through that example, hearts are moved.
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Speaker 3: That's how I would view it.
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Speaker 5: Maybe not as a definition, because I was probably linked
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with for a definition, but that's more of an explanation.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I like that.
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Speaker 4: Okay, I would say, but for me, it would be
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living your life in a way that reflects the love
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of God that you have experienced in your own life.
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Speaker 2: That's pretty good. Okay.
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Speaker 3: That was succinct and good.
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Speaker 4: Okay, I like.
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Speaker 1: That because I think the key thing in that is,
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at least this is what I wanted to point out
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that I like was it's not like, Okay, you need
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to go and share this rule with everybody, but it's
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you're sharing the love that you've experienced in your own life,
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because that'll always be a way more powerful thing because
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nobody really cares. It's like, if it's just your idea,
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it's like, oh, here, here's a new idea, here's another
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thing you could think about. It's like, that's add It's
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like anybody that's trying to evangelize to someone that's not
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looking for an answer, not really looking for an answer,
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not willing to sort of like really go down the path.
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Even when like people come up and evangelize to you
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about something like a different religion or an idea or whatever,
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it's kind of like, no, I'm good, I'm pretty content
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where I'm at. But I think when you see people
9:15
that live a certain way, I think we do it
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kind of automatically. You see someone that acts a certain
9:20
way or has certain skills, and you're attracted to what
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makes them them because you see something deeper than just
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them trying to convince you. Like no one can come
9:30
up and be like, hey, you should like learn piano,
9:32
like like the piano keys. Do you know how complex
9:34
music is? Like it's crazy complex. It's like, ah whatever,
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But if you see someone play piano.
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Speaker 2: You're like, oh, go should do that. Yeah, it like
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ignites your heart.
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Speaker 1: So I guess that would lead us into Let's say
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you guys, wake up.
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Speaker 2: Okay, let me paint a picture for you. You wake up, it's.
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Speaker 1: A Tuesday morning, it's December. This is just random, but
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it's like it's December twelfth, okay, and you get up
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to do what on your mind, Like maybe you don't
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write outspire because I'll be honest, I don't write outspire
10:09
every day, but I've got the basic things I want
10:12
to I want to map out, and I.
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Speaker 2: Could be better because you need an examine at the
10:15
end of the night. That would help. But yeah, that's
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besides the point. Okay.
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Speaker 1: Let's say you wake up and you're like, all right,
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I got aspired today.
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Speaker 2: You hit the spiritual Okay, knock that out of the park. Physical,
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pump out the threshold, pump it.
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Speaker 1: Intellectual, zooming through those intellects, relational.
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Speaker 3: You're really feeling it.
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Speaker 2: You're really feeling it, and then you get to the
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big E, what are you doing?
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Speaker 4: I would hope that I had already accomplished my E
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through the other four.
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Speaker 3: I was going to say something like that, Okay, let
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me challenge you with this.
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Speaker 1: What do you think if it's specifically to share and
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spread the idea because everything else is kind of supposed
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to lead into the evangelical But it wouldn't be a
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thing to focus on if it wasn't like a specific
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way of evangelizing.
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Speaker 2: In a sense.
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Speaker 4: So I mean, for me personally, I think the biggest
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way that I have been doing it at least has
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been through this.
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Speaker 2: It's just.
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Speaker 4: Whether that's actually physically being here recording it or I
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kind of count like working on it when I'm editing it,
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uploading and all that. Yeah, because that's still all working
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towards the end goal. And then you know, I've been
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kind of slacking on the shorts and stuff.
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Speaker 2: I admit that, but I've been busy.
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Speaker 4: So I think that that is like, that's like the
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biggest thing where every day if I want to do
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something where I feel like I'm trying to evangelize. This
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is kind of at least my biggest avenue for doing that,
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I feel like, and so I'm try and do something
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that is going to help us to kind of push
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this out and grow this, I guess, because this is
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the biggest way for me to express the idea.
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Speaker 2: I guess.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, for me, Well, this is this is one of
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those ways in terms of like sharing I guess, my
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intellect and personal life with others.
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Speaker 3: I have a couple of other avenues.
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Speaker 5: With like a weekly Bible study or a semi weekly
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a discussion on the Catechism. Right, you can still share
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some stuff. Yeah, there's like a glass bob that broke
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out there, some went through a glass bottle or something. Anyway,
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I don't hear any fire, so it's probably not a
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tough cocktail that's good or alarm that too, that too anyway.
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So and then there's also like a semi weekly discussion
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where we talk about the Catechuse and there's ways in
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which you know, you could share the like intellectual side
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of things, which I think is part of the evangelization
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because I mean it encompasses all of the previous ones
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and it puts it all forth in a way. Just
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like with a relational it's the emotional side of things.
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With the intellectual, it's the intellectual side of things, and
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they all work together in that way. But another way
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that I want to be better at and try to
13:28
work on is to just not be afraid to be Catholic,
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not be afraid of what people might think of me
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for different things. So I have a you know, a
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really cool, beautiful pro life shirt that someone here helped design, Michael,
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and it's just really cool and I love wearing it
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to campus, and you know, one of my Catholic friends
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on campus is like, wow, you're like really bold and
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risky wearing that here. And they're like, oh, I hadn't
13:58
even thought about that. But just like not be afraid
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of being Catholic. Because last week, one of my you know,
14:05
friends from my program, I heard about like how large
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my family was relative to the average American sized family
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and he's like, what are you Mormon?
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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I'm Catholic, and.
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Speaker 5: Like and at the Avenue is like, it's very easy
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to be like I don't want to say that I'm Catholic.
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I don't want people to judge me or you know,
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think less of me.
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Speaker 3: For this or that, And I.
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Speaker 2: Was like, what, I treat you differently?
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Speaker 5: Really, yeah, or treat you differently, And it's like, why
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should I be scared of that?
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Speaker 3: You know, I've had friends who's.
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Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I don't really like sharing that that I'm
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Catholic with that I go to mass or I just
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say like, oh I did something Sunday morning.
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Speaker 3: You know. It's like.
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Speaker 5: It's it's a scary thing sometimes and part of evangelizations
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to just not be afraid of who you are.
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Speaker 4: There was that was a while ago when I did
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the question thing on Instagram. I think that was one
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of the questions that was on there is how do
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you uh share your faith without being afraid and of
15:03
sharing it? How do you stop yourself from being afraid
15:06
of the response that you're gonna get if you do?
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Speaker 5: I think that that that's a really good question, yeah,
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I And honestly, it's to share your faith rightly, Like
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if you're afraid of of the response, don't be like
15:25
one of those people who just makes a massive giant
15:27
sign and sits on a campus and says, change my
15:30
mind about this matter, cause then y, you don't know
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what you like? You you're kind of giving people the
15:35
opportunity to to act that.
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Speaker 3: Way towards you.
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Speaker 5: But if you just share your love y, you know,
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it's like, if people act negatively towards you, they will
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feel how weird that feels to act so negatively towards
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someone who's just being nothing but positive and loving towards you.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like it's kind of like if you are.
15:58
Speaker 1: Married and then you're out in public and you're like, oh,
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I don't want to bring up the fact I'm like married,
16:05
I would be I'd be like, Okay, are you secure
16:09
in your marriage? And I think it's kind of a
16:12
question of like, if you are secure in what you
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believe in the sense of it's a personal relationship that
16:21
kind of you have to grow over time to have
16:23
that stability in it, then I feel like you're not
16:26
as afraid to share because if someone challenges it, you're
16:30
not so dependent.
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Speaker 2: On their opinion of it. It's more of it's your
16:35
own take and it's your own.
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Speaker 1: Choice, and so if they disagree, it's not going to
16:40
destabilize you. I think because you're not so much looking
16:43
for them to validate your belief I guess.
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Speaker 2: So I think I obviously.
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Speaker 1: Still struggle with, like, you don't really want to be
16:51
like the polarizing person because everyone kind of has it
16:54
in their mind.
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Speaker 2: If you say.
16:55
Speaker 1: You're Catholic, all they think about is like, oh, all
16:57
the stuff that I do he thinks is wrong or
17:00
he's judging me, and it's like who is he though?
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And it's like I think, I think one of the
17:05
things I've kind of realized is.
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Speaker 2: If they are.
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Speaker 1: Bothered by it, it is their problem and it's not
17:14
their problem.
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Speaker 2: Is that I can just be like a jerk. But
17:17
it's more of.
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Speaker 1: I I can't worry so much of my of who
17:24
I am negatively affecting them if it's costing me my own.
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Speaker 2: Like security, my.
17:34
Speaker 1: Own idea, mean who I am, it's just not a word.
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Speaker 2: It's not a worth it trade off.
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Speaker 1: And so I think it's good to be considerate of
17:41
other people's feelings and not going out of your way
17:44
to make it clear how.
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Speaker 2: You feel about things.
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Speaker 1: But it's kind of finding this in between of like
17:51
realizing people are imperfect. You're like, I'm imperfect, so I'm
17:56
gonna make mistakes. I'm not gonna be like the best
17:58
person ever. But it's I'm not a Catholic because I'm holy.
18:02
I'm a Catholic because I'm unholy and I want to
18:05
be holy. So it's like this is the route that
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I'm going, This is the route that makes the most
18:10
sense to me. So if I'm going to want to evangelize,
18:14
my reason for it is like, I'm only going to
18:17
evangelize if I have something to share.
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Speaker 2: And so if you're.
18:25
Speaker 1: If you are evangelizing out of a place of fear,
18:27
or out of a place of wanting to be right,
18:30
or out of a place of insecurity or really guilt,
18:35
like feeling like you have to, I feel like you're
18:38
that's not really the time because it should be something
18:41
that sort of flows out and then you won't be
18:44
as afraid if it's flowing out.
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Speaker 2: But I think we kind of it's easy.
18:48
Speaker 1: If you grow up in the faith, you kind of
18:49
feel like this pressure when people put that pressure back
18:52
on you of like oh, well why do you believe this?
18:55
Like you know that's stupid, and then you kind of
18:56
get trapped and you're like you kind of try to
18:59
argue from this spot of well you're just wrong, well
19:01
you're just sinning, Well you're just da da da da da,
19:03
and if you never really dive into really investigating those
19:06
answers on your own and learning your motives behind it,
19:11
or what their motives are for where they come from,
19:14
their position in life, how they view it, Like it's
19:17
you're kind of you're not really going to it'll never
19:21
It'll never be a message of love. It'll always be
19:23
a message of he said, she said, I'm right whatever.
19:27
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think that not too my own horror,
19:31
but it goes back to my definition that I was
19:33
given earlier, where it's kind of you want to live
19:35
your life in a way that reflects the love that
19:37
you've experienced, and the church is not a place for
19:43
sinless people because sinless people don't need a savior, and
19:48
if you're living like if you're trying to do it
19:50
from a position of fear or a position of feeling
19:53
like you know, you have this obligation to do it,
19:55
and you're not really doing it, like you said, from
19:58
a position of love. Yeah, so that's why I feel
20:02
like the best way this is I don't like it when,
20:06
like I think I brought this up a couple of
20:08
weeks ago at Umzil. There have been a couple of
20:11
times where there will be a guy who he's standing
20:16
out with his sign and he's like, you sinners, you're
20:19
going to Hell, repent whatever. I'm just like, I wonder
20:25
if his motivation is truly Like I wonder if he's
20:32
truly doing that out of love for those people, because
20:36
the people that I love, I'm not gonna just you know,
20:42
wave a Bible on their face and be like this
20:44
says that you're wrong, This says that you're going to
20:46
hell if you're doing this thing. Repent, repent, repent. I would,
20:51
because I mean, obviously there is we're talking about earlier,
20:55
the spiritual works of mercy, admonished the center or whatever
20:59
you don't want to be to continue in their sin.
21:01
But I don't know if the best way to do
21:03
that is to just tell them at their sinner And
21:07
so I think that if you truly just live your
21:10
life and you handle your interactions in a way that
21:15
reflects the love that Christianity offers, that's the best way
21:22
to do it.
21:24
Speaker 5: And I think to answer like that specific question you
21:27
were talking about from Instagram or whatever, like how to
21:31
evangelize well being afraid, Well, one, what type of fear
21:34
is that? Is that a social fear of just talking
21:36
in front of other people or letting other people know a.
21:40
Speaker 2: Bit being vulnerable.
21:42
Speaker 5: If it's a vulnerability fear, then in some way, especially
21:45
if you're comfortable around those people and have other aspects,
21:48
just you know, rip off the band aid, you know,
21:51
if if there's that comfortability around and it's just this
21:55
one aspect that makes you that you're afraid of being vulnerable.
21:59
Speaker 3: But then there's the other.
22:00
Speaker 5: Aspect to where if you're afraid of sharing, and it's
22:03
not just in this social sense, but in something deeper
22:07
than the best way to evangelize is to bring it
22:10
to prayer. You don't need to tell this other person
22:14
this or that. You can tell Jesus about this other
22:18
person and Jesus can work wonders through that. You can
22:21
tell Mary about this person, and Mary will extend a hand.
22:25
And prayer is a great way of evangelizing. Even though
22:30
you might think, but if I'm just praying alone in
22:33
my room, it doesn't affect us of the person, and
22:36
you'd be wrong. Another thing is I've realized that people
22:43
tend to be a lot nicer than I think they are.
22:46
You know, there's a bunch of you know, my friends
22:49
at the grad school, are not Catholic, are in some
22:53
ways anti religious and sometimes making you know, jokes aboutics,
23:00
are disparaging things in that way. But like they know
23:03
I'm Catholic, and it hasn't negatively affected our relationship, you know,
23:10
it just the interaction still happened in the same way
23:13
as if they didn't know I was Catholic. And honestly,
23:15
I think give people the benefit of the doubt, They're
23:18
not gonna be as mean as you think they are.
23:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, so I kind of brought this up, I
23:24
think in the physical one, but where I was saying that,
23:27
like a year ago, I never would have done this podcast.
23:30
So this is actually kind of the thing that was
23:32
behind that and like my like why I'm doing it
23:37
now as opposed to why I wasn't doing it then,
23:39
because I mean obviously I just like didn't think about
23:42
it that neither. Yeah, but it was kind of a
23:46
realization that so a I think so for my answer
23:53
to that question, God created everybody to evangelize in different ways.
23:57
Not everybody is meant to do the same thing. And
23:59
God will give you the strength that you need and
24:02
the courage that you need to do what He created
24:04
you to do, so He's not if you're not meant
24:07
to be William Lane Craig and go up and debate
24:11
people on the stage in front of thousands of people.
24:15
God's not going to give you the skill set to
24:16
do that. He's not going to give you the courage
24:19
to beaus or the desire. And so I think that
24:25
maybe if you're truly afraid of something, you aren't you
24:33
don't really understand what it is that you desire.
24:36
Speaker 2: Maybe.
24:37
Speaker 4: But so that's the first thing, is just that God
24:39
created everybody to do different things. But then also what
24:42
you said about ripping off the band aid, Like for
24:47
so long, I was like I want to do something,
24:49
but I don't know what I want to do, and
24:51
I like, I didn't want to be on video, I
24:53
didn't want to record my voice, and I I started
24:56
to think about, like why I didn't want to do
24:58
that and it can't Eventually I kind of came to
25:02
the conclusion that it was from a place not of
25:05
I'm not supposed to do that, but like feeling insecure,
25:11
like I don't like the way I look, I don't
25:12
like the way I sound, whatever, And then it really
25:16
kind of just felt almost selfish in a way, because
25:19
I was like, I God created me the way that
25:21
I am, and I'm hiding that from other people because
25:26
I don't like the way it looks or I don't
25:28
like the way it sounds. Yeah, And so it was
25:31
really a moment of kind of just ripping off the
25:34
band aid where I was like, Okay, Like I know
25:38
that I want to do this, but I've kind of
25:41
been holding myself back from doing it for this reason,
25:45
and like, I'm so glad that we're doing it now
25:47
because We've had so many conversations. I've had conversations with
25:52
other people that I never would have had if I
25:55
hadn't done this. And so to anybody who is afraid,
25:59
I would say, think about what it is that you're
26:04
truly afraid of, and whether or not the thing you
26:08
were talking about with the dime like doesn't matter eternally,
26:14
Like if I like my face or not, that's that
26:16
doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. But whether
26:19
or not I'm going out and actually doing something to
26:24
spread the love of God that does matter. And so
26:28
if I'm letting the thing that doesn't matter get in
26:30
the way of the thing that does, it feels like
26:33
maybe there is my priorities aren't in the order that
26:39
they should do.
26:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:41
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think something I learned along those lines
26:44
recently was, so if you do have something like a
26:49
fear that's holding you back, but you have an experience
26:52
of love, then you will have a desire and the
26:56
capacity to rip the band aid off. But I think
27:00
think if you are afraid of something, or if there
27:02
are things preventing you from being yourself or feeling relaxed
27:05
or not feeling anxiety all the time, it's going to
27:08
be linked to deeper wounds that need to be faced first, really,
27:14
because if you haven't faced.
27:16
Speaker 2: Those, you are not going to have like really.
27:19
Speaker 1: Facing those means opening those up to love and asking
27:22
and desiring and experience of God's love. I think if
27:26
you have wounds and then you have an experience of love,
27:30
you'll feel a sort of ointment in a way over
27:34
those wounds, and that will be an experience of love,
27:38
and I think it will transform the way that you're
27:40
seeing evangelization, because I think you are if you know, like,
27:46
if you've experienced God and you're starting to see how
27:49
He works in your life and your relationship with him,
27:51
and you want to share it because you're like, this
27:53
was so good for me and it made such a difference,
27:56
and I want to share it so other people can
27:58
experience it, and I have it responsibility to. Then, I
28:02
think the things preventing you, like you were saying, will
28:05
be defeatable and they'll be faceable. But if you're held
28:09
back from like this paralyzing social anxiety, like there could
28:13
be there might be other things that should be addressed first,
28:17
which might be the key to actually having an experience
28:20
of love that you will want to share in an
28:22
overflowing sense. So I think if you don't feel an
28:25
overflowing sense or feel a desire to share it with
28:29
people or to give it to people, would I would
28:32
focus more on cultivating that, probably because that's at least
28:35
what I've experienced is I was like I kind of
28:37
came out the gate, like with people at work or
28:40
wherever I was with with friends of like, Okay, I've
28:42
got the best argument, I'm with this and d d
28:44
da da da da da, And it really didn't do anything.
28:46
It just kind of was stressful for me. I felt
28:48
super defeated if I lost or if I looked stupid.
28:53
But it was more when I started focusing on my
28:56
stuff and my relationship.
28:58
Speaker 2: Then it was kind of like.
29:00
Speaker 1: I didn't really mind so much if I shared my
29:03
opinion because I didn't feel like I was trying to
29:04
prove anybody wrong. I was just trying to say something truthful.
29:08
And I love the people around me anyway. So it's
29:10
like I kind of it kind of came to more
29:12
naturally and that wasn't so fraid.
29:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, first, you haven't something for Watso do you have anything?
29:18
Speaker 3: Oh?
29:19
Speaker 5: I was just gonna talk about the sharing thing a
29:21
bit more, but that might move the conversation. I move conversation, Well,
29:26
then I'll stay in somewhat the same vein with like
29:28
what you were saying about sharing. It was actually really
29:31
impactful to me because like, what what is evangelization but
29:36
sharing whatever it is, And if you have nothing to share,
29:43
then you are not called to evangelize in that moment, right, Yeah?
29:46
And what is this thing that you're sharing? Is like
29:48
you can have intellectual thoughts and whatnot, and you could
29:52
have all of these, you know, pre planned arguments from
29:55
YouTube videos that you do this or that watched that
29:58
is not something you are sharing that as someone something
30:00
that someone else is sharing, and you're just reiterating what
30:03
that is. And if you just reiterate with what someone
30:05
else says without actually sharing who you are through that,
30:08
it's going to come off as impersonal, unkind and just
30:12
not work because it's not genuinely you. So you need
30:16
to have something to share. An experience of love is
30:20
something that you want to share. An experience of beauty
30:24
is something that you cannot hold in. If something is beautiful,
30:27
you're just like, I really want to show this to
30:30
someone or I really want someone else know about this,
30:33
And it's and it's this feeling of beauty, this feeling
30:36
of love that makes you want to evangelize, And I
30:39
think that's really important thing. It's like you have to
30:44
or you should get to the point where you want
30:46
to evangelize in your own way. And if you're not
30:50
at that point, try to cultivate it by working on yourself,
30:55
maybe using spi R to like really yourself up into.
31:01
Speaker 1: That that plays into something super important.
31:06
Speaker 2: This was just something I started looking at.
31:08
Speaker 1: Everyone's heard this reading if you're a Catholic, but it's
31:10
the reading about what love is.
31:13
Speaker 2: And I knew the part where it's like love is patient.
31:16
Speaker 1: Love is kind, It is not jealous love is not pompous,
31:18
It is not inflated, it is not rude, it doesn't
31:21
seek its own interest.
31:22
Speaker 2: It's not quick tempered, it does not brood over injury.
31:24
All of that.
31:25
Speaker 1: But the first two versus, I think are directly related
31:31
to that. And it says, if I speak in human
31:35
and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am
31:37
a resounding gong or a clashing symbol. If I have
31:40
the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge.
31:45
If I have all faith so as to move mountains,
31:48
but do not have love, I am nothing. And so
31:52
I think what that, at least what that's been meaning
31:55
to me more is you can have something to share,
32:00
like a truth, like an intellectual truth, and you let's
32:05
just say, there's this image that Christopher West uses. This
32:08
is something that I've been trying to think about. Is
32:11
so you've got truth on one side, and this is
32:15
just the sort of beats you over the head with
32:16
the truth.
32:17
Speaker 2: Here's the facts. Da da da da da da da.
32:19
Speaker 1: You know, come convince me I'm wrong, change my mind
32:22
whatever it is. Or let's take the for instance of
32:24
the sign.
32:27
Speaker 4: It's just like repent or die.
32:31
Speaker 2: It said you're a sinner.
32:33
Speaker 4: Oh, it was like Hell aways and lists all these
32:36
different kinds of sins and everything.
32:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So let's say the truth is that hell
32:41
awaits and that you're a sinner. And then let's say
32:44
that's that would be truth isolated on the one extreme.
32:48
But then on the other side you have let's say,
32:51
total unconditional love. But that would be the acceptance without
32:56
any of the reality that they might be trapped in
32:59
a sin or stuff and behavior. So that would be
33:01
kind of like this idea of I can love whoever
33:04
I want. Who are you to tell me I can't love?
33:07
Or who are you to tell me that I can't
33:08
do this? Or it's just that all accepting, I won't
33:12
have any judgment, I won't make any stand. I don't
33:14
want to hurt your feelings. And so that's like the
33:16
other extreme. And so what Christopher West talks about is
33:20
that both this is bad because it's so inclusive and
33:24
it allows all behavior. So you have love, but you
33:28
never have the truth that makes it true love. And
33:31
then on this side, you have the truth, but you
33:33
don't have any of it being delivered with tenderness compassion understanding.
33:37
But what Jesus does on the cross is he takes
33:40
those two sides and in the middle is where.
33:43
Speaker 2: He bleeds his heart.
33:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he bleeds in the middle and his heart
33:48
is bleeding there, and that is where we want to be.
33:52
So I think I first took that first of like
33:57
I'm going to find the truth, and.
34:00
Speaker 3: It's like, you can't not believe me.
34:03
Speaker 1: I might have actually had some truth, but because of
34:07
what I was doing, it was nothing.
34:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I might have I might have had love,
34:12
and I.
34:12
Speaker 1: Was like, I'm not gonna worry about truth. It's just
34:14
kind of what I want, whatever you want.
34:16
Speaker 2: I don't want to make anybody mad. But I had
34:18
no truth, and so it was nothing. But the spot
34:21
is in the middle is I think, where it's most
34:23
important to be. But that is where you'll bleed. So
34:26
that's where like the death is because.
34:28
Speaker 1: You can't just have the easy route of there's the truth,
34:32
suck it, and you can't have well, I'm just not
34:34
gonna worry about anything except for love. It's like always
34:37
this balance, but it's the it's the paradox in the
34:40
middle that Jesus represents, which is why we try to
34:43
imitate him because that is where the true death, but
34:48
then the life is.
34:51
Speaker 4: That's okay. Uh, I mentioned William Lane Craig earlier. Do
34:57
you guys know who he is? So I'm up on that. Yeah,
35:03
I figured you were. I didn't know if Nicho was.
35:04
But so his kind of the way that he goes
35:09
about it, I think this is an interesting way to
35:12
tie into what you were just saying. So he essentially
35:16
when he does like a talk or debate, he has
35:18
like five proofs for God an a way. So he
35:22
starts out with, uh, the calom cosmological argument. I'm not
35:27
going to explain in depth all these, but so this
35:30
is just saying like, the universe needs a cause. Then
35:33
he goes to fine tuning argument design the universe appears
35:39
to be designed. It's either chance, design or necessity. It says,
35:44
it's not the other two, so it has to be designed.
35:46
Then he goes to the moral argument, which is more
35:49
like for objective moral values to exist, you need a
35:54
God who cares about morality. And so at that point
35:59
he's a stat like through his logic and through his
36:01
arguments and through his reason and just kind of these
36:03
like facts and the truth, He's kind of established this
36:07
idea of like what we picture is God. And then
36:11
he gets into the resurrection and the historical proofs for
36:15
the resurrection, but he finishes it off. And this is
36:19
the part that I think is interesting, is he doesn't
36:21
finish it off with saying, I've given you these other
36:24
four intellectual arguments. Accept what I said, because that's the
36:29
truth and you just need to accept it. He finishes
36:31
it off. His fifth proof is essentially personal experience, and
36:37
so he uses the intellectual arguments as a kind of
36:42
base to build up to his personal experience with God
36:48
and with his faith and with the love that he's experienced.
36:54
And I think I can't remember exactly how he said it,
36:57
but at one point he was saying that he doesn't
37:02
present arguments for God to convince other people that God exists.
37:09
He presents arguments for God to give people intellectual permission
37:16
to open themselves up to the love that they can experience.
37:21
Because another interesting person is Joe Rogan, who, like he's
37:27
not Christian, but if you look at him like years
37:30
ago versus now talking to Christian people, he used to
37:33
be like insane and now he's like way more open
37:36
to it. But uh, I think he admitted at one
37:40
point though, is because he had like bad experiences in
37:42
the past. And so if people with I think he
37:44
went to Catholic school, he just had like a terrible
37:47
experience there, and so people would present these intellectual arguments
37:52
to him and they'd say, this makes sense, whatever, whatever, whatever.
37:55
He just wasn't having it because it wasn't the intellectual
38:01
arguments that we're holding him back. And he's again, he's
38:04
still not Christian, but he's opened himself a lot more
38:08
because there's the there's the personal and emotional part of
38:15
it that you have to deal with. You if you can,
38:19
if you can have reasoned somebody to the faith exclusively,
38:23
if you can get somebody to the faith exclusively through reason,
38:25
they can be reasoned back out of it. So there
38:28
has to be the combination of the intellectual and emotional
38:33
sides of it. And so that's like what you're saying
38:37
with the image of the cross and like the truth
38:40
and the unconditional acceptance, you have to have kind of
38:44
the meld of those two things, because if you have
38:47
one or the other, it's not gonna work and it's
38:49
not gonna give you the full picture. But yeah, I
38:52
really really like I haven't had like an opportunity to
38:55
have a conversation with somebody where I'm able to kind
38:58
of test that approach to see if it works. But
39:01
I think it's a really interesting way to do it,
39:05
to not just like prove it, but to get provide
39:09
these arguments as like permission to open yourself up to
39:13
the possibility in a way.
39:16
Speaker 2: Okay, so how about this if you let's let me
39:23
faint your picture.
39:24
Speaker 1: Imagine someone walks into your friend's apartment and he sits
39:30
down on the couch and he says, what is your
39:34
experience of love with God? And I'm here, here's your
39:38
chance evangelize me. And he's sitting in a red blue
39:42
thing hold the microphone. For some reason, what do you
39:45
think you would say?
39:47
Speaker 4: I think I would not present the klom cosmological ark.
39:52
I would not do that, because that's I think you
39:56
have to change your approach based on different people. I
39:58
think that what I would the way I would go
40:00
about it would be like I just thinking about it,
40:06
like what do you want to do? Yeah, I'm thinking
40:08
so because there is the intellectual side of it that
40:13
I think I would have to address. But I wouldn't
40:15
lead with that. So my experience throughout my entire life,
40:23
there have been very few times where I've felt true
40:29
peace and true I'm just gonna call it, like true love.
40:37
And out of those times, so that's already a small
40:41
fraction of my general experiences in life. But out of
40:48
that small fraction, probably ninety nine percent of that has
40:56
not necessarily been directly from other people. It's been through
41:03
maybe I've been an adoration, or maybe I've been just
41:09
in mass, or I've just been in prayer, been in silence,
41:13
and when I've truly just been like hurting, like really bad,
41:19
and I have no reason to not be hurting, and
41:27
in that moment, I'm able to just feel like without
41:33
anybody else there, without anybody saying anything to me. And
41:35
you can have experiences of God through other people obviously,
41:41
but like in those moments where I've been hurting the most,
41:45
just feeling a sense of peace and quiet and the
41:51
hurt and just that feeling of like it's gonna be okay,
41:56
and you don't understand it and you don't know where
41:57
it's coming from, you don't know why you would not
42:02
just be like crying your eyes out because everything sucks
42:05
and everything's terrible, but then you let it go, you
42:10
open yourself up, and you're able to just feel like
42:15
kind of in immense. It's really I'm struggling to kind
42:18
of put it into words because it's not something that
42:20
you can verbalize necessarily, because it's more of an internal feeling.
42:26
But I think the way I would open with it
42:29
if I'm trying to convince somebody to open themselves up,
42:33
because I think that would be the goal, I would
42:37
just try and share with them my experience of I
42:42
went through this pain, I went through this hurt, and
42:44
this is the thing that brought me peace, and this
42:47
is the thing that was able to pull me out
42:49
of it. And it wasn't whatever kind of worldly stuff.
42:52
It wasn't I didn't go drink, I didn't go whatever.
42:56
This is the thing that was able to pull me
42:58
out of that. And hope way through sharing my experience
43:01
with that, I would be able to at least get
43:03
them to open themselves up to the possibility. But that
43:06
was really long and kind of convoluted. But it's hard
43:08
to like.
43:16
Speaker 3: Place myself into hypothetical.
43:21
Speaker 5: Have you ever had an experience of beauty or an
43:26
experience of wanting something more than what you have. Have
43:30
you ever felt a yearning, a longing for something in
43:33
this inner recess of your mind? Have you ever just
43:37
wondered about anything? And especially in times of trouble? You know,
43:46
where is it that you find peace?
43:47
Speaker 2: Like?
43:47
Speaker 5: What is it in this world that you find peaceful?
43:50
And why is that peaceful to you?
43:53
Speaker 3: You know?
43:53
Speaker 5: For me, I've said, like, the two places that I've
43:57
only that I've ever been able to find peace when
44:00
I'm not at peace is either an adoration or just
44:05
out in the wilderness, just on a hike with my
44:10
thoughts and with my prayers. Those are the only times
44:13
that I've ever been able to find myself at peace
44:15
in difficult times. Or have you ever felt yourself connected
44:19
with another in a meaningful and impactful way the lowest
44:24
emotion light of my life, I had a friend there
44:26
to just really help me out and love me. And
44:30
through that community, I felt loved and I felt meaningful,
44:35
And that is really impactful for me to just have
44:40
an experience of love, an experience of beauty, an experience
44:44
of community. And that is what God is. God is
44:50
this experience of love, community of beauty. And whether or
44:56
not you believe in the existence of God. That is
44:58
the Catholic defaith, the Catholic understanding of who God is,
45:03
and that is a good and a beautiful thing. And
45:08
if you've ever spent a moment wondering about who you are,
45:15
and you know that there's been times in which you
45:18
felt lost, there's been times in which you felt broken,
45:22
but there's also been times in which you felt loved
45:25
and cared for and wanted. If you've ever wondered who
45:29
you are, you are someone who is cared for, loved,
45:34
and wanted. And that, to me just really brings me
45:39
to an understanding that there has to be a God.
45:44
Because this longing and desire in my heart for something
45:49
is so big it overpowers the physical nature of my body.
45:56
It overpowers the evolutionary demand of who I, of what
46:03
we are as you know animals. This emotional need and
46:10
want can only be satisfied by something that is infinite.
46:17
And how could something like this emotional need that surpasses
46:21
and overcomes the evolutionary desires of the body. How can
46:26
that come to be unless there is that infinite thing
46:30
wanting you? Because nothing of this world can canform that
46:35
desire in your mind, that desire in your heart. There's
46:37
nothing in this world that can show you the experience
46:41
of beauty, and so because you can't experience these things,
46:47
that there has to be something greater pulling you and
46:50
wanting you with them.
46:54
Speaker 4: You're so good with words.
46:57
Speaker 3: I was able to formulate that because of your words.
47:01
Speaker 1: Ah sucks, Well, that's awesome, that's really that is That
47:05
is exactly Oh, that's exactly what I needed to do.
47:10
Speaker 2: That's the route. I think that is the route that
47:12
I would want to go as well. I think.
47:18
Speaker 1: I think the biggest the biggest change in my life,
47:21
especially listening to Christopher West, who is really in tune
47:27
with that idea of the Catholic faith as a religion
47:31
of desire, because I feel like for so long I
47:36
viewed it as though God was just a like it
47:42
was just a legal another legal thing, but it never
47:46
addressed my humanity.
47:47
Speaker 2: And I think having someone talk to me that in
47:52
the way that you just did, I.
47:54
Speaker 1: Think it draws me closer to the reality that I
47:57
am like looking for satisfaction, like I am dying for something,
48:03
and if i'm if I'm not convinced, it's like man,
48:06
I will turn to all kinds of things that make
48:08
me feel good or make me feel better, or keep
48:12
me active or keep me out of boredom. And it's
48:15
like I am always looking for something and it's like
48:21
a fruitless pursuit to just look for that stuff. And
48:27
it's so motivated by moments in my life that were
48:30
so painful that I've blocked them out. And it's not
48:34
like I've had super traumatic experiences, but it's like just
48:38
the feeling that you are like nothing and that you're
48:41
at the lowest point that you could possibly imagine. Regardless
48:46
of the objectivity of it, the personal experience of that
48:51
feeling is like crushing. And I think to be told
48:56
that there actually is something out there and that there
49:00
is a reason for those things, and that the desires
49:03
on your heart that are that pull you forward even
49:07
if you turn to things like just the things that
49:09
you like, the desires you have for love or connection
49:12
or intimacy or human touch or a buzz or whatever
49:16
it is you're after, like this satisfaction that you're like
49:19
crave and we sacrifice everything to get that stuff, and everybody.
49:26
Speaker 2: In their own ways it's very unique, but it's like
49:31
there is a source.
49:32
Speaker 1: If there is something here, and then there's something here.
49:35
There's something here, you know. But it's like if you're
49:39
if you think that this is gonna be it, you're
49:43
gonna miss so much of what it could be.
49:48
Speaker 2: And it's almost like, don't stop dreaming.
49:51
Speaker 1: I think there's a guy that just told me he
49:54
said God is a god of addition, not of subtraction.
49:58
And I this one time I was having conversation with
50:00
a friend of mine who said, he's so he's a
50:11
practicing homosexual, and it's like, I don't know how to
50:15
word that. I guess it's like that would be that
50:17
would be a pretty the same way. But I was
50:19
talking to him because we've been like good friends for
50:21
a long time, and I'm like, okay, you know me,
50:25
I know you. Now you know that I disagree. You
50:29
used to disagree with me. Something has changed what am
50:32
I supposed to do and what it comes down to.
50:35
And what it came down to was like he's like, look,
50:38
I know that you believe certain things. I have different beliefs.
50:42
I have different things that I felt and experienced. I
50:45
can't expect you to just throw out what you stand
50:48
by for what I feel and what I believe. So
50:52
we can be friends and we can talk about that
50:55
stuff and that can be an open discussion because I
50:58
still love you and you love me, and so. But
51:04
he said, when people talk to me about this kind
51:06
of stuff, and you know, my parents are trying to
51:09
convince me not to do this or not to do
51:11
that or whatever, it is, the most important thing is
51:16
to realize you can't just take away the biggest thing
51:20
in my life that brings me like feeling and brings
51:23
me emotion. It helps me feel connected and like myself.
51:27
And he's like, instead of trying to take it away
51:30
and tell me how I'm wrong and how I'm stupid
51:32
and I'm sinning, He's like, I need something more, Like
51:35
I want something like give me something better then, And
51:38
I've thought about that a lot, and that, I think
51:43
is what it really comes down to, is like when
51:46
I'm looking at my maybe my past self in different moments,
51:49
it's like, I wish that you knew that you're the
51:53
desires in your heart, the thing that's driving you into
51:55
this pain and this kind of self shame and this
51:58
stuff that's just never really satisfying, and you got to
52:01
just tough it out and white knuckle through life and say,
52:04
like if it I can get through anything.
52:05
Speaker 2: I'm tough. It's all about mentality.
52:07
Speaker 1: It's like that sort of strain and that stress, that anxiety,
52:10
the restlessness. It's like you are after something good but
52:17
you've stopped, and it's like all of that feeling can
52:21
be fulfilled in something that's so real and you can
52:26
still enjoy these things, but it's not like you depend
52:30
on them, and it's I think that if I, if
52:32
I would have heard that more, that all these striving
52:37
for satisfaction, whether it's in friends wanting to hang out
52:40
all the time, watch movies, whatever it is, I'm after
52:43
beauty and I'm after connection, and it's like I want
52:46
that so badly I will literally do anything. I remember
52:50
not being able to go to my friend's house after
52:52
I got excited for it, I was depressed, Like that
52:55
was my.
52:55
Speaker 2: First experience of depression. But it's like.
53:00
Speaker 1: My way of dealing with it was like it's better
53:02
for me to deaden my emotions so I don't feel
53:04
that stuff because I can't handle the letdown as opposed
53:07
to Thank God, you feel that stuff that is like
53:10
exactly what you're supposed to be feeling.
53:12
Speaker 2: But it's like you've.
53:13
Speaker 1: Got to learn that you are meant for real connection
53:16
that lasts forever, and this.
53:18
Speaker 2: Is a reflection and so enjoy it.
53:20
Speaker 1: But you don't have to be so dependent that when
53:23
it falls through, you break. And so I think just
53:26
being told that and being told like it's a process
53:30
and it's a journey. But I promise you the things
53:33
you want are good and the way you want them
53:36
where it's like you'll get anything and do anything no
53:39
matter how wrong it is, to get what you think
53:41
you want and you need, and that it's going to
53:43
be the thing. It's like that is so good, but
53:47
it's just gonna break your heart. So I think hearing
53:51
that is and kind of trying to get people to
53:54
see that, it's like, there is a depth and there
53:57
is a reason that oh, like way past what we
54:03
think it is now and.
54:05
Speaker 2: What we've like been presented with almost.
54:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, the God that we believe in, despite what so
54:13
many people think, is not just a god where he's
54:18
not a god who's trying to just stop you from
54:20
doing things that will make you happy in the moment.
54:24
It's a god who is trying to lead you to
54:26
the things that will make you happy forever. I think
54:30
that's the distinction it's.
54:32
Speaker 5: A big suntion and honestly, that's beautiful storylgist. Honestly, that's
54:37
a beautiful friends because you haven't.
54:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm jealous. That's a great friendship. Yeah, thank you.
54:46
Speaker 5: So I was like a bit about, like when I
54:50
was trying to explain, you know, why I believe what
54:52
I believe a couple of minutes ago. That made me
54:55
think of how about we like look at some practical
54:59
ways to let someone to help someone evangelize. You know
55:02
what if someone's like, I feel ready and I want
55:04
to share with this person who I am, but like,
55:06
how can I how can I do that?
55:08
Speaker 1: Like?
55:09
Speaker 5: How can I evangelize? Do you guys have any thoughts
55:11
on that?
55:12
Speaker 1: Yeah?
55:12
Speaker 4: This probably has to be the last thing. Yeah, do
55:16
you want to go first? Do you want me to?
55:19
Speaker 2: I can go. My first thought is I think that
55:27
it should flow out.
55:28
Speaker 1: I don't think that you should go out looking for
55:30
an opportunity necessarily. I think you should make an effort
55:34
to have an understanding of your faith.
55:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.
55:39
Speaker 2: So my my thought then would be I'm gonna wind
55:42
up brooking in.
55:45
Speaker 1: Yep.
55:46
Speaker 2: It would be.
55:51
Speaker 3: Practical ways of evangisable ways of.
55:54
Speaker 1: Evangelizing i'd say number one, Okay, how about this, I'll
55:58
scratch sort of.
55:59
Speaker 2: What I said was fine. But I think number one
56:01
is listen.
56:03
Speaker 1: That is the I think the most important because I
56:05
think that is truly going to be the pathway of
56:09
love as opposed to the pathway of convincing someone that
56:12
you're right. I say, just listen and listen to their
56:18
story and learn their perspective and then learn.
56:21
Speaker 2: To feel what they feel when they look at God
56:25
from their lens or when.
56:26
Speaker 1: They look at the faith or whatever it is. And
56:28
I think, just listen and then and then that's it.
56:32
Speaker 2: Really.
56:33
Speaker 1: I think everything else if you're in contact with that person.
56:36
I think that the feeling of someone looking in your
56:39
eyes and seeing your person is more of an experience
56:42
of God than hearing the best argument for a religion.
56:46
Speaker 2: I think that's necessary at some parts, like on the journey,
56:49
you kind of need to have that stuff.
56:51
Speaker 1: But I think if we aren't smart enough to know that,
56:54
and if someone's not going out looking for the answers,
56:57
I don't think the answer is to be like, I'm
56:58
gonna just give you the package I think you need.
57:00
That'll work for you because it worked for me. But
57:02
more of like, I'm going to listen to you, and
57:05
that's what I'm gonna do.
57:07
Speaker 4: I like that, Okay. I think what I would say
57:13
is so one of my favorite quotes that I've heard
57:16
recently is if somebody doesn't want Christianity to be true,
57:22
then they don't fully understand it. And so I think
57:27
that I would just go back to what I said
57:29
at the beginning, live your life in a way that
57:35
reflects the love that you have experienced, because that ultimately
57:41
is what Christianity is about. I think that, especially in
57:44
our modern culture, you see so many people who kind
57:47
of twist the meaning of it and they say like, oh,
57:52
you're a Christian, so you hate this group of people,
57:55
or you say these people are going to hell or whatever,
58:00
and that's not what it's about. And I think that
58:04
the only way to help people to see that and
58:07
to help people open themselves up, is again not just
58:12
through giving them the best argument, but just through loving people.
58:17
I think that doesn't have to be you don't even
58:21
have to be talking about Christianity. That's the thing about
58:24
this is and here we can open it up to
58:28
anybody who's not Christian. In case anybody who's not a
58:30
Christian listens to this the good that you can do
58:36
just by loving somebody truly, you're going to do so
58:41
much more for them through that than you could ever
58:44
do for them through just arguing with them and giving
58:48
them facts and logic. And this doesn't have to be
58:54
a Christian to atheists whatever. This can be Christian to
58:57
Christian too, because I know a lot of Christians who
58:59
struggle with a lot of things and it gives them
59:00
doubt and whatever. The best thing you can possibly do
59:04
for people if you're trying to evangelize is just love
59:06
people from your heart, no strings attached, just if you
59:12
feel the love in your heart. And this also gets
59:14
back to what you're saying earlier, don't force it necessarily,
59:19
because if you don't actually feel the love, it's really
59:22
hard to share the love they'll know because it comes
59:26
off in a really superficial kind of manner. And also
59:29
it just it leaves you feeling kind of empty because
59:32
you don't have anything to give, and you're still trying
59:34
to give anyway. But what you do have, God has
59:40
given you what he wants you to share, and so yeah,
59:45
I guess just love people, Just share what God has
59:47
given you with other people for.
59:50
Speaker 3: My practical advice.
59:51
Speaker 5: This is more long Fulton's vain like listen, of course,
59:55
but also ask ask questions. Do not be a lecture,
1:00:00
but rather be a friend like what Michael was saying
1:00:04
with loving them, ask questions and also give personal testimonial
1:00:12
and where necessary, explain the teachings on various matters. But
1:00:20
like to really evangelize, it is not just explaining the teachings.
1:00:24
It is asking questions, listening to who they are, sharing
1:00:28
who you are, and pretty much just it's all through God.
1:00:35
And so ask questions, listen, and love. And I'm trying
1:00:41
to figure out how to connect it back to the
1:00:43
spire pun.
1:00:45
Speaker 6: Well, if you think if you listen and you love,
1:00:48
and it's like, that's two points on a three point
1:00:52
in triangle, which is kind of the same shape.
1:00:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well awesome.
1:00:59
Speaker 1: So I think in conclusion it kind of comes down
1:01:04
to if you want to evangelize effectively, you should spire,
1:01:09
which is you should grow spiritually, grow physically, grow intellectually,
1:01:15
establish relationships and then learn to listen and to love
1:01:18
people with truth and with love and to really do
1:01:23
that in relationship with them. And I think that is
1:01:27
that is the best thing that we can do, because
1:01:30
to me that seems like the most close to Jesus
1:01:33
that we can do. So really, that's that will be
1:01:39
Those are our thoughts. It does all kind of come
1:01:43
back to Spire. I mean, it's like it's like the
1:01:46
main point of this.
1:01:49
Speaker 4: There you go.
1:01:54
Speaker 1: Whatever with that, So okay, Really, our intention with this
1:02:00
these first five episodes have been to talk about our
1:02:03
personal experiences go through s p i r E. To
1:02:06
kind of get to the gist of what this is
1:02:09
and how it can help you, and then how it's
1:02:11
helped us. Going forward, We're gonna kind of feel out
1:02:16
whatever we want to talk about, whatever we think is
1:02:19
important to us, whatever we feel because this is an
1:02:22
opportunity in a sense for us to share ourselves and
1:02:25
then to talk with each other and build a relationship there.
1:02:29
It will always continue to be brought back to this
1:02:32
idea of Spire, which is to grow e spiritually, grow physically, growing.
1:02:36
Speaker 3: Aspire to go higher.
1:02:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, and if you have something you want us to
1:02:39
talk about, please tell us.
1:02:41
Speaker 3: We would love to.
1:02:44
Speaker 1: So if you've listened all the way to the end,
1:02:46
and so far no one's contacted us.
1:02:48
Speaker 4: About and I've had like three people contact me, but
1:02:51
nobody has said anything about that, So I don't know
1:02:53
if it's because they they don't want the sty maybe
1:02:58
they didn't get to the end.
1:02:59
Speaker 3: Maybe they just don't want free stuff.
1:03:00
Speaker 1: Well, if you are one of the people that's gotten
1:03:03
to the end, we're you can have a free T shirt.
1:03:05
Just text us and text the word Lemon and if
1:03:09
we have word in our DMS, you get a free
1:03:11
T shirt.
1:03:12
Speaker 2: Don't cheat, but we will still send it to you.
1:03:16
Speaker 4: All right.
1:03:17
Speaker 1: Other than that, you guys, got any closing remarks As
1:03:21
we end this first chapter of Spire.
1:03:24
Speaker 3: First chapter Aspire, I like it.
1:03:25
Speaker 5: Everything is really interconnected and beautiful and I can't wait
1:03:28
to see where it goes from here.
1:03:30
Speaker 4: I said, it's saying I don't really have anything else.
1:03:33
Speaker 2: I'm right there with you, guys.
1:03:34
Speaker 3: Let us close out in prayer.
1:03:35
Speaker 1: Okay, Father's Son, Holy Spirit, Jesus, thank you for this time.
1:03:40
Thank you for sharing your love with us as we've
1:03:42
been able to talk about things that we care about,
1:03:44
things that are on our hearts and our minds. Help
1:03:47
us to always stay united and stay in truth with love,
1:03:50
not just trying to prove.
1:03:52
Speaker 2: How we're right over the best or whatever, but.
1:03:55
Speaker 1: Helping us to grow closer to you, as we grow
1:03:58
closer to each other and hopefully share our hearts in
1:04:03
an open, honest, vulnerable and sincere way.
1:04:08
Speaker 2: Mary, thank you for being here with us.
1:04:10
Speaker 1: Bless everyone that's listened and everyone that doesn't listen, but
1:04:14
not as much those people. And we just thank you
1:04:19
for a good day, and we ask you for a
1:04:22
good night.
1:04:24
Speaker 2: Amen. Amen, And then okay, thank you guys for watching.
1:04:29
Speaker 5: Remember you want to inspire to go high, inspire to
1:04:34
go higher.
1:04:34
Speaker 4: I think, I like if you want to go higher.
1:04:36
Speaker 3: Du spire, I think if you want to go hire Spire.
1:04:39
Speaker 2: All right, we'll come to a final conclusion. We debate.
1:04:44
If you guys are at the end, follow the poll.
1:04:46
We'll have a vote.
1:04:47
Speaker 4: It's not a democracy, so you don't get a saying,
1:04:51
but we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.
1:04:53
Speaker 2: All right. Thank you guys for watching,