Latest / 2nd City Gridiron / Bears Banter Ep. 215: Detroit Lions expert Patrick Meagher joins the show!

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Bears Banter Ep. 215: Detroit Lions expert Patrick Meagher joins the show! · 2nd City Gridiron

• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, bare-down bare-span, it's time for another dish of the Skoggleware's podcast Bears Banner, Power by Second City Grand Iron Bill Zimmerman with you, and we are back this week.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes you just don't want to repeat record, but you got to hit record because, well, you decided to do a weekly podcast during the bare season.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to talk about this loss in the Minnesota Vikings.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: This really, really gut-wrenching loss for a couple particular reasons.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get into it and then
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have a conversation with Patrick Maher of Vison, of course, if you've listened to this podcast throughout the years, we do Patrick Maher on this show every year, because he is a huge Detroit Lions fan.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is plugged into the NFL, great in terms of analysis of the NFL.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: He knows Ben Johnson really well after watching every Lions game the last three years.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about the Bears.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about the Lions because the Lions have a lot of trouble on their front as well as the Bears
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: be Ben Johnson bowl here coming up this Sunday, but before we talk about that, we're going to talk about the Chicago Bears loss of the Minnesota Vikings and I want to get into Caleb Williams because here's the panic button and here's me.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: My hand is right over the panic button.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't pushed it.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't pushed it, but I'm really thinking about pushing it.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get into Caleb Williams, but I'm not going to start there.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to get into a lot of the other pieces of the team and kind of what I saw because and I said this on Twitter and I said this in my hot take Tuesday article at Wendy City Griniron about, you know, it took me a while to figure out exactly what I was so upset about with this loss because
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I was kind of going through it, like before I had hit pillow on Monday night, I realized I really wasn't upset that they lost.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I kind of shrugged my shoulders that they lost.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They played a Minnesota Viking team.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought they were going to win, but I thought they were going to win because JJ McCarthy was making his first NFL start, and it was his first NFL start on the road and he expected him to struggle.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: which he did for three quarters and had the bears kind of buried them when they had the opportunity JJ McCarthy's fourth quarter would have been considered he played better in mop up time after the bears had a three score lead because that's what they should have had.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought the bears were going to win but they lost in the Minnesota Vikings that happens.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a really well coach team with a lot of talent on the football field.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bears, I am not expecting big things from the bears this year.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just expecting the bears to be better.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have said, I'm not assuming they make the playoffs.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did have them making the playoffs squeaking in, but that's just how it broke.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just had them with nine wins.
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a team that's gonna be right around 500.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Big things for me is minimum 11, probably 12, 13 wins.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the bears are gonna get there.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're schedules too hard.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have a long way to go.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was not upset that they lost.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then Johnson made a mistake.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yes, he told Cairo Santas to blast it through the end zone.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cairo Santas doesn't have the leg to do it.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the thing, you know, he said, oh, you can't kick it out of bounds.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You get the ball at the 40.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, touchbacks are no longer the 20 or even the 25.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were the 30 last year.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now they're the 35.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is no difference when you need to get the ball back of having the Viking start with the ball at the 35 or having them start it with the 40.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Cairo Santosh should have blasted that thing into the stands and kicked it so far out of bounds, but Ben Johnson, not thinking in that way, told him to kick it through the end zone.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: and Cairo Santos doesn't have the ability to do that consistently because his legs stinks.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know his legs stinks.
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure Ben Johnson knows his legs stinks.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he can pin that on Cairo Santos because he told Cairo Santos to do something and he failed to do it, which he said in the postgame press conference.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he also then followed that up and said, I made the wrong decision.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I liked that accountability from Ben Johnson, not there in the moment, but it was there the next day.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: That goes a long way with the players.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Captain Cairo does not have the leg at an NFL level anymore.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like put it this way.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Jaguar's kicker kicks a 70 yard feel goal in the preseason.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is him kicking the ball through the uprights from the 40.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now Cairo San does is kicking it from five yards further back and can't get it out of the end zone.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Cairo San does gets a full running start.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the jags kicker came little just as three steps and then he kicks and he can kick at 70 yards through the uprights.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Cairo Santos.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The extension was questionable at in the moment.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's even more questionable now as he misses the field goal.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's just not accurate in the 50s.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can go through this all there are well he hit this 50 and 51 or no.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got to be able to hit 5557, 50 that Chris Boswell for the Steelers hit a 60-yard field goal to win that game.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he doesn't have the leg.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, Cairo Santos, excuse me, isn't very good?
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: nails from inside 40 great.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't need that.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need some leg.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need some power.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have it.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wears stock with him at least for this year.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tori Taylor, this is why you don't take a punter in the fourth round.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I set it in the moment.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there was a wild overassessment of this roster.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were several players that could have been had in the fourth round.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tori Taylor was awful.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just awful last week.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Line drive kicksters, no hang time gets a kick blocked.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's too slow getting the punoff Patrick Manley said that last year says he has to speed up his process.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't speed up his process.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is slow getting the ball off.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not great with Tory Taylor.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's going to get better, but the guy thought, 27, 28 years old, whatever he is now, like, come on, Tory, you know, they spent a four.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: You spent a fourth run pick because you want thought Tory Taylor was going to be the best partner in the league for the next 10 years.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tory Taylor is not a top 10 putter in the league.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is a waste of resources.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the the man has drafted two putters in three years.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying not to make this the pile on Ryan Polls podcast because there's plenty of other things to talk about.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: But special teams certainly contributed to the loss both Cairo Santos and Tory Taylor were terrible.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Johnson also made that mistake.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: watching Ben Johnson's offense while it didn't look great in execution, especially the run game and especially Caleb Williams in the second half watching the all 22.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was very encouraged with Ben Johnson's offense.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now the running game, the run scheme, that needs to get figured out that needs to get cleaned up because the bears don't have a lot of elite run blockers.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have elite passwalkers on that front, but they don't have a lot of elite run blockers.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: They, that scheme really needs to work.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was honestly, I was pleasantly surprised with how Deandre Swift ran.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he took his shoulder into players.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he ran with some authority.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was very pleasantly surprised with Swift.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that numbers weren't there at the end, but Swift runs that hard.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they get that scheme working better, hopefully the passing game works better.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But where I was really happy with the passing game, and it's more concerned with,
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: with Caleb Williams, which we're gonna get to, was Ben Johnson's passing scheme.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were a lot of receivers open.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if when Caleb Williams figures this out, that's going to look a lot better than it did, because there are open receivers to be had.
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Caleb Williams needs to see it, rip it and get this offense moving.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he did not do that enough, he did it occasionally, but he did not do it enough.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: relied on scrambling too much when there were opportunities to work the ball down the field.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Ben Johnson's offense looked really good.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was really pleased with what I saw.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: with the old 22 watching that passing scheme.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there are certainly some concerns.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jonah Jackson looked dreadful.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Looks like he should not be on a football field.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And NFL football field.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He looked like he did not belong.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He looked like the guy that was in the LA Rams last year who got benched for a rookie and didn't see the field again.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Jonah Jackson looked like.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did not look like the guy in the, from the Detroit lines a few years ago.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He looked like the guy with the L.A.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Rams last year.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if that's who Jonah Jackson is, that's a terrible signing.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The bear's already extended him.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, kind of level out his money.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a bit of a mess there with Jonah Jackson.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: He needs to get that cleaned up.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Braxton Jones was better than he was in preseason.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was just okay.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They did help him out a little bit on some of those blocks.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Monet with the pass blocking.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could watch Joe Toney pass block all day man thing of beauty there Run game.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a good run blocker.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a phenomenal run blocker.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Him and Drew Dalman were okay in the run game Drew Dalman I thought made a couple mistakes with pass blocking that wasn't great
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: but also next to Jonah Jackson that didn't help and I thought Darnell Wright looked good.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought there was, you know, there were definitely some bad calls from me officiating.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That certainly didn't help.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And on the defensive side, look, Kyler Gordon, TJ Edwards, and Jalen Johnson were out.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That certainly hurt the bears in the fourth quarter when they had that many backups in the game.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Noah's soul looked okay.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't watched him too closely
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly not someone you want to see starting for half a season.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully TJ Edwards gets back soon rather than later.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's second there.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, those are their two best corners.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: They need to get those guys back on the field as soon as they're healthy.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I certainly think that will help that help the defense.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, Dio Dengbo looked a little better than I expected him to.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jerome Dexter, I thought, looked really good.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Made a couple of nice plays up the middle.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were some positives there on the defensive side of the ball thought Dennis Allen worked things really well kept Justin Jefferson out of the game for the most part.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were plenty of positives there.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Things just fell apart in the fourth quarter, but at the same time, they start falling apart when the offense isn't sustaining anything and the defense is on the field constantly.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were a lot of positives in small pockets, a lot of negatives in larger pockets, and that brings us to Caleb Williams.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And guys, I am concerned about Caleb Williams.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm sitting here on this podcast, telling you an August and July that I think there's gonna be some growing pains and that this thing's not going to look great.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: in September.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I predicted the bears to win 1917.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's certainly not an explosive offense, thinking the bears are going to score 19 points.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when I look at Caleb Williams and I got a call for your hang on.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Man, frog in the throat.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is what happens.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did a tie done.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: podcast, you can check that out on the second city grid or in podcast feed.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm on my second podcast here.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So getting a little dry in the throat here, even though I'm guzzling water.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get through this as best we can here Patrick, my her coming up in just a few minutes.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when we are talking about Caleb Williams.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's where I'm, I am not concerned that Caleb Williams, you know, there was some issues executing the offense.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not concerned that the offense had too many penalties.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not concerned about that the run game didn't quite look cohesive because I think it's early and that stuff's going to get better over the next couple of weeks.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's where I'm concerned about Caleb Williams.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: is I thought, and the all 22 actually made it worse.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, some of the guys who are better with quarterbacks in terms of analysis and better with offensive concepts, say that there are things with Caleb Williams that can certainly get cleaned up and things can get a lot better.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That maybe feel a little better about things.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I am still hovering my hand over the panic button, because a lot of the things I saw were not, he's got to execute Ben Johnson's offense a little better here.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were things where I'm starting to wonder if this is who Caleb Williams is as a quarterback.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't feel like this is who he was as a quarterback at USC, but it feels like this is who he is as a quarterback.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that has me really concerned about Caleb Williams moving forward.
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in my mentions and on the timeline, I am seeing a lot of butt Josh Allen.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the thing, when you look at all the outliers that have turned in a good quarterbacks and great quarterbacks.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Josh Allen is even the further outlier from that.
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're circling in that one as going, but Josh Allen, look at Josh Allen, Josh Allen did it.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Josh Allen stuck the first half of his second year, only started getting better in December.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then he broke out in his third year.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I get it all with Josh Allen.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, it was a slow development.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, Caleb Williams could be a slow development.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he could get there.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he could be an MVP caliber quarterback.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope he does become an MVP caliber quarterback.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the bear's drafted him to be.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why Ben Johnson is here.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that all happens.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still think there's a possibility that could happen.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when I also see Gino Smith took a while, Sam Darnell took a while.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: A, they didn't have success on the team that drafted them.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't care, Alex Smith's same thing.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care because Alex Smith didn't do it on the night or Sam Darnell didn't do it on the jets.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gino Smith didn't do it on the jets.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't care if they had success when they were 30 on a second team.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's, you know, Baker Mayfield, I don't care.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: They, you need to show me examples of guys who started slow on their original team and the only guy that did that is basically Josh Allen.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it is when you're seeing this poor of play.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: In year two, yes, I understand it's a new system, but it's an offensive guru.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the best offensive mind that the bears have ever had.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the top five offensive minds in the sport.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was really hoping some of this would look better with Caleb Williams.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not worried about some of the stuff, but I am worried about the accuracy.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: This guy was off on 29% of his throws.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anthony Richardson, I mocked all season last year about how bad he was.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was watching that cults game against the bears.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Him sailing little simple passes and balls all over the place.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anthony Richardson was inaccurate on 28% of his passes last year.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Caleb Williams was 29% and I don't expect Caleb Williams to be at the Anthony Richardson level.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It'll drop down lower.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: but Caleb Williams, then you see the other stats, like, amount of overthrown times.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like double, basically, anyone else in the league.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, the amount of inaccuracy this guy has in his passes, I didn't see that on the U.S.C tape.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: What, where is this coming from?
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: How does this get cleaned up?
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But inaccurate pastors are usually inaccurate pastors.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can improve their accuracy a little bit, but this is wildly off-base for Caleb Williams.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: the process in which he is, you know, sit there and say, oh, he's checking it down.
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing, he's taking the yards.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of because, yes, he needs to check the ball down and he did.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's great.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the reason they scored a touchdown on that opening drive.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's because he checked the ball down and he got some yards.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: and you watch the old 22.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And even Troy Hickman pointed it out in that first half.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, yeah, this is looking okay, but Caleb Williams is not really seeing the field.
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember exactly what his quote was, but he insinuated it.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you watch the old 22.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Guys, DJ Moore is open, the whole game.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mall just open, all game long.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he didn't get enough targets.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: DJ Moore with more targets and accurate throw is gonna have 175 fast receiving yards.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: all over the place.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of me days the key is open, all over the place.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Romanoon's day was getting open.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Johnson was scheming receivers open all over the place with good spacing and and good congressional reads in terms of going from receiver A to B to C to get through those progressions as quickly as possible.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Caleb Williams wasn't seeing it.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he was seeing it, he wasn't confident in terms of releasing that ball and letting it rip.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: seeing how many downfield throws that guys were wide open.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not like, oh, he didn't anticipate that.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, they were just wide open.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Blown coverage kind of wide open, sitting in really soft zone pockets, wide open, and he didn't see it.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when he did see it, and he did decide to throw it, lot of inaccurate passes, lot of inaccurate passes, inexcusable, inaccurate passes.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am getting really concerned, and in here's the second level of concern, Caleb Williams is wildly talented, one of the best pure talents that the quarterback position has ever seen, but you also have to be able to play the quarterback position.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, because Caleb Williams is so wildly talented.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he can fail at the NFL level.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think it's possible.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's too good for that.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I am not interested in having a quarterback like Kyler Murray.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you might sit there and be like, I think Kyler Murray's pretty good.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is pretty good.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am not interested in the bears having a quarterback who may or may not be good enough with Ben Johnson.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to sit here each week and going,
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: is Caleb Williams going to be good enough this week to win the game.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be going season to season being like, is this the season that Caleb Williams breaks out, throws for $4,400 and $40 touchdowns?
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cardinals fans are still open for it.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They still think, oh, this could be the season.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kyler breaks out.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Been in the league like seven years, man.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's who he is.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not changing.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Caleb Williams, needs to be a top 10 quarterback.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a top five quarterback in the league with Ben Johnson, that's the expectation.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson together are a no doubt about it pairing that can win a Super Bowl with the right people around them.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the expectation for Caleb Williams.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: The expectation is not, he's to a, he's Kyler Murray.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's good enough for a second contract, but then the bears are gonna be when an eight to 10 games a year.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not interested.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested in having the right people in place finally at the most important spots and the bears start truly competing for a Super Bowl.
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's my baseline.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if Caleb Williams can't get there, then I am concerned because I don't need another 10 years of Jay Color.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, my theory on Jay Color is he was the cut off quarterback.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you had a quarterback who was better than Jay Color, then you had a good enough quarterback.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you had a quarterback who was worse than Jay Color, you didn't have a good enough quarterback.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what that left us with Jay Color?
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't know if he was good enough.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's some guys who will die on the hill and say it was because they were evolving off and some coordinators and not this and not that and fine, but there's other guys who just sit there and say no, because he made too many mistakes.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He turned the ball over too much.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He got sack too much, sometimes his fault, sometimes not his fault.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But regardless, I don't need another J-Cultler era with a slightly, you know, with a more athletic version.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not interested.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested in having a great quarterback.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if Caleb Williams was drafted with the 25th pick,
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then yes, you can change your expectations in terms of maybe he'll make a top 10 quarterback, but if he's top 15, that's a great draft pick.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not when he's number one overall.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not when he's number one overall with all this talent and all this.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And and
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just comes down to what is your baseline for expectations.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're fine, if he becomes Kyler Murray, then you and I are on the same page in terms of expectations.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you have lower expectations to me, and that's fine.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if the bears go, night look, Greg Bragg's up front from CHGO, all he said he wanted a couple years ago was for the bears to be in the hunt and December.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: If that's what Greg needs to keep him fanning happy, great for Greg, that's not enough for me.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: For me, I need a team that's winning 11, 12 games a year.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's competing for the division.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: That has a five to 10 year stretch where they have a window to win super balls with Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's my baseline.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying they have to win four or five, six Superballs, that's hard to do.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they have to be a team that's good enough to win Superballs.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That people sit there and say, I could see the bears win in the Super Bowl this year.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like right now, who are we looking at?
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at the Eagles.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at the Ravens.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at the Bills.
• 22:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at the Chiefs.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: In a couple of years, I want the bears on that list because, and that if the number one pick they took Caleb Williams with all these other talented quarterbacks that they could have had they pick Caleb Williams and was it a flawed process maybe go check out the tie done podcast if you want to get into that we're not getting into that on this podcast.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had opportunities to take the best quarterback.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: They settled on Caleb Williams.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was generational talent.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They found a generational talent as an offensive head coach.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: They'd better be in that conversation in the next couple of years.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: They'd have to be in it this year.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably don't even have to be in it next year.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which better be in it in the next couple of years.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not, then it failed.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't good enough.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think Ben Johnson is going anywhere.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if it doesn't work with Caleb Williams, he's gonna bring in someone else.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully it'll work with them.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Caleb Williams's bar is to be that bottom is the top 10 quarterback.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: The acceptable amount is top 10.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you reach his top five, great.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: If he becomes the best quarterback, top two in the league, if he's right there with Patrick and Lamar and Josh Allen, great.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: but that's where he needs to be.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he's not there, I'm not interested.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I don't want to see a guy who's just pretty good.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not good enough for me.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have expectations here.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could have accepted pretty good with Mitch Trimisky because he's not the same caliber quarterback.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not accepting pretty good for Caleb Williams.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what we're here for.
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to see Caleb Williams making $75 million a year to be the 14th best quarterback in the NFL.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not good enough.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's simply not going to do.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I'm concerned because the longer we see this version of Caleb Williams, the lower the ceiling continues to get for me.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm overreacted.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Caleb's thrown for 300 yards next week against Detroit and looks the part.
• 24:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm telling you, with how frantic he looked in the pocket, he looks scared.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: with how Aaron, those throws are, with how poorly he's seen the field.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I get it with all that that I'm talking about.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's still throws for 210 yards throws the touchdown pass.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be at Garbage Time, runs another touchdown in.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You sit there and say, if you have money, you're fantasy team, you're like, oh, that's, I'll take that from Caleb Williams.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not fantasy football.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the NFL, where Caleb Williams, after the first drive, did very little head.
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: patches of success with a good throw here or there, but couldn't sustain drives, looked really bad, really bad when you watch what was happening.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he hadn't started 10 for 10, that completion percentage, what looked a lot worse, he finished with 60%, after going 10 for 10 to start, his yards per attempt was still bad.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, here's the thing, he took less sacks,
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: is yards per attempt, pretty close to last year.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: His passing yards per game, pretty close to last year, his completion percentage, pretty close to last year.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you took an average Caleb Williams game from 2024 and just figured out the numbers and then looked at his stats from 2025,
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: They'd look almost identical.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: You would have expected maybe one more sack to be recorded.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Three sacks, maybe four sacks instead of two.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: He avoided some of those, great.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But other than that, this was the same quarterback we saw last year.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: A quarterback who's advanced to analytics, we're terrible.
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, Caleb's advanced analytics where he has on Monday, terrible.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is reason to be concerned.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're sitting there going, it's one game with Ben Johnson, Rolex.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's early.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You and I aren't watching the same quarterback.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because to me, when I see an inaccurate quarterback who doesn't see the field well and looks frantic in the pocket, those are the things that make a bad quarterback.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So those are the things that keep a quarterback from becoming great.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can Ben Johnson coach all of that out of him?
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we'll see how great Ben Johnson is.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're sitting here going, it's one game.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry about it.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have your head squarely in the sand.
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll find out in the next couple weeks if this starts to get better.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: This needs to get better quickly within the first two three games of the season.
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be perfect.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that bears need to score 34 against Dallas in week three.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it has to look more functional than it did on Monday.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that starts and ends with Kayla Williams.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I talked about it with a couple of friends, like where are you on the DEF Con level?
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: DEF Con 5, peace time, nothing to worry about.
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: DEF Con 1, we're about to go to war.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's the old military thing.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are definitely not at DefCon 5.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone should be at DefCon 4.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the question is, are we at DefCon 3?
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or are we at DefCon 2?
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm panicky a little bit about this.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will put it at Defcon 3.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we are ticking up towards Defcon 2.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: If we don't see this improve in the next couple weeks, I think we could be at Defcon 2 by October 1st.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if this is the season we go through, then it's Defcon 1 by the end of the year.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the situation we're in with Caleb Williams.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Plant Tyson Bayesian, if the goal here is to develop Caleb Williams, Benchian Caleb for Tyson Bayesian, might help this season.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: but it's not going to help long-term if the goal here is to make Caleb Williams a great quarterback and pair him with Ben Johnson.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is big reasons to be concerned and we're gonna talk about those with Patrick Mahar, we're gonna talk to Troy Lyons, we're gonna talk NFC North, we'll talk about it all with him.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Bill Zimmerman, Bears Panther, we'll be right back.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back into the podcast excited to do this because we do this every year.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It usually works out.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We get to do this around Thanksgiving because the bears of lions happen to play on Thanksgiving quite a bit, but they are playing in week two.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we are doing it early in the season this year.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is Patrick Mahr, he's the host of Vison Live.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can hear that on serious XM on mad dog sports radio.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can check that out at 7 to 10 Eastern Chicago time.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to check out his show, he follows the league well.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a good analyst.
• 29:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: He knows plenty about what's going on around the league.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he is a Detroit Lions fan, born and bred Michigan.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is always a good conversation.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Patrick bills Zimmerman, how you doing?
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've been doing it for years.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: My assumption would be, this is probably going to be our most dynamic show.
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny because you just had, you just did an episode with Ty Dunn.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, when you and I were both working at Mad Dog Sports Radio, that's when Tyler Dunn, I used to have them on the show all the time.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that your audience gets pissed about the Ty Dunn expose, okay?
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do wonder, as I'm watching the game,
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: As I'm watching Minnesota in Chicago, I'm thinking about Tyler Dunn, because I'm thinking about Caleb Williams in a different way.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about the fact that he's planted there because Orion pulls.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about the fact that Ben Johnson could have been with Jayden Daniels.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about one, two, and the draft.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about Jay Jay McCarthy.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Monday night was a documentary.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was obsessed with that game.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can take this conversation where you want, but we could start there.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can get to the Lions because I have a lot to say about my Detroit Lions and a peg coach that was standing naked on the sidelines in Green Bay because he got exposed.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about the Lions because I want to get in with that because I checked the Twitter search bar on John Morton and the Lions fans were having a full spin out about the loss of Ben Johnson.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to get in with that.
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, let's start with Monday night football.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's fresh.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what just happened.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the Chicago Bears podcast.
• 31:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So before we get into all the layers about Caleb Williams,
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh, on Monday night football from Caleb Williams.
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just what was your reaction in terms of what you saw on the field?
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first off, I couldn't wait for the game.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was bored to tears with Ravens bills.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's mission impossible.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's flashy.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen it before.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rinse repeat.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know exactly what I'm getting from the Margex and Josh and Alan are top 10 guys of all time.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about that.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want the 22-year-old quarterback, Minnesota.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want the second year redemption story, Caleb Williams.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want the best play caller that's ever done it and Ben Johnson.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: The game itself, of course, you saw North Carolina scripted, touched on on their first drive.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't do anything.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: You saw 15 plays from Caleb Williams scripted incredible, then it was a disaster.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think the biggest takeaway for me is O'Connell, and then of course JJ, it's almost like if he had played well, the whole entire game, it's like, okay, he's a first grounder.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: He played so horribly, I'm talking McCarthy for three quarters to mentally, who cares what he does physically.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: They all have skill to mentally do what he did in the fourth quarter.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: That ducks to position from McCarthy doing what he did in the fourth quarter to Caleb Williams, going the other way, was that's theater.
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's theater.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, McCarthy inately shows you something.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Minnesota is a very good team.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there are three teams in the NFC North that can win a Super Bowl.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll begrudgingly put the lions in there.
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: The packers are absolutely a Super Bowl team on form what I do not sleep on them, but the packers are, I had the packer.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had the packer in the Super Bowl team
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: look at the on-off stuff with Arsons.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're absolutely a Super Bowl team.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Minnesota with that defense is the Super Bowl team.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just kept thinking, you had Sam Darnold and Darnold's basic.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: McCarthy, if he grows, might take that team from last year and be better.
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was my biggest takeaway.
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't disagree about any of that with JJ McCarthy.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I thought the bears were going to win that game based on JJ McCarthy first start on the road, Dennis Allen defense.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think that was going to go off on, and it didn't go well for three quarters.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: They got the fourth quarter result.
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So with the bears,
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: what I'll say is there were a lot of things that needed to get cleaned up.
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cairo Santos does not have a strong leg.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Johnson can say blasted through the end zone, that was questionable.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: He should have blasted it out of bounds because what's the difference between the 40 and the 35 yard line?
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is not the 40 and the 20.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it used to be, it's literally five yard difference.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that was an mistake by Ben Johnson.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't have a perfect game as a head coach he made mistakes.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there were too many penalties.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's something that can get cleaned up.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, the Bears had a couple really bad calls against them.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that's the reason they lost.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Santos had a bad game as on special teams.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tori Taylor had a bad game, punton the football.
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It showed a Jackson, the guard they picked up.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you used to remember your Lions when he was good.
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Disaster last year with the Rams.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Looked like the same guy that was on the Rams last year.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there were issues that need to be cleaned up.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: The run game, which, you know, the Ben Johnson run scheme, you had a lot of hope for.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, that didn't work out too well.
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: One thing I was highly encouraged at and then I'll tell you what I was discouraged at.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Highly encouraged.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I watched the old 22 a bunch.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I watched a lot of Ben Johnson's passing concepts.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were there.
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: DJ Marshall had 175 passing arts.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Guy was open all over the place.
• 35:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of me days of keys opened a bunch.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Roman Dunesay was getting open tight ends.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Colson Lovelin got open a couple times and was missed.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the Ben Johnson offense, at least from a passing concept, the run game will see that that still clearly needs some work.
• 35:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the passing concepts were there for Caleb Williams to make this offense go.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Caleb Williams to me, it wasn't, here's the thing.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it was just some execution of the offense here there, like you sit there and say, this is going to get cleaned up, this is going to get better.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe the concerns I have will get better.
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But here's where I had the biggest issues Patrick.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is where the first time I'm telling people, I haven't pressed the panic button, but the hand is hovering over the top.
• 36:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: because he looked frantic in the book nervous.
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was nervous.
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he looked scared back there and, you know, and I had to get it florist with his blitzing schemes and everything I get it.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he didn't look like that last year.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: The throes were Anthony Richardson level off, off target.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: 29% off target and not that forethown throw was gross.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the fourth down throw, the two of them, the DJ more.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of them at the end of the game, it may not have mattered, but DJ more was opened by 10 yards, and he threw it out of bounds.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the fourth and three, that was a, that was a bunny.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: That, that should have been, and then we're other ones too.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was airing with those throws.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: He looked frantic in the pocket.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he is not seeing the field well.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, Ben Johnson had guys open.
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then last time I remember this, I remember watching the all 22 of the bear saints play off game.
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I said they're like, I got a naggy to know what the hell he's doing.
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was a Trubisky game.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was at 2020.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I watched the thing, I'm like, everyone's opening.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's Mitch doing?
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying Kale Williams is Mitch to risk.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a much more talented quarterback.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But those are the type of things, not seeing the field frantic in the pocket and Aaron throws.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the things that just make up a bad quarterback Patrick.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's two talents and the fully bust.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like I said before, you came on, I said, I'm not interested in Kyler Murray.
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if he's Kyler Murray, I'm not interested in having to do the Bears have a quarterback who's good enough is he not good enough.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Ben Johnson Caleb Williams pairing was supposed to be an elite pairing where eventually these guys were going to be, you know, it was going to be a top 10 top 5 quarterback in the league.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know it was going to happen immediately, but the things I saw, I wonder if it's ever going to happen.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you have to start with Johnson hated the Hawkinson obviously that challenge was a disaster.
• 37:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will stand.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the old.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm on an island.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: not picking the field goal and taking the three with two 12 to play on the 14 yard line.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bears fans remember when Caleb ran to the cone and then they eventually said it's on the one yard line.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to kick the field goal that play before.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to get three, the kicker stinks.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to have a chippy from the 14 yard line.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You then don't put it in a situation where there's 202 on the clock and you're wondering what to do as the first your head coach hated that I hate I hate this over thinking he's a mathematics person breaking understand the clock.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's number one the pale of Williams thing.
• 38:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bears fan just breathe.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just breathe.
• 38:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The footwork is dirty.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: The read I don't even care about the the the wheel routes that he missed on I know you're talking when he sailed it on fourth on I think he got nervous there that that it's the fourth and three the slant pattern the easiest throw where he just it wasn't even close.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: but just breathe.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You saw it for the first quarter, you saw with the kids capable of.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: He still held on to the ball a little too much, but when he did, he was picking up chunks of 15 yards with the run.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a plus plus athlete.
• 39:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just for you, he'll be fine.
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ben Johnson is not good.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look what happened to Jared Gough when he wasn't there in one game.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's great.
• 39:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be fine.
• 39:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're always going to have the problem because JD Daniels might be the fifth best quarterback in football right now.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're always going to have that issue.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should probably get to, I'm sure what you discussed with Ty Dunn, and that is stuff that, you know, on mad dog sports radio.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take calls from people talking about the fingernails.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take calls from people talking about the crying, the innate stuff.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the vast difference between McCarthy's vibe and Williams vibe.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: is alarming.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the teammates think of Williams, maybe you can help me.
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't honestly, I don't have a clear answer about that because the one thing and I've mentioned this a couple times and you know, I don't want to spend too much time on the tie-down article, but it does fit into some of the conversation we're having here.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is so Maddie Barflus gets fired last year.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And DJ Moore on an interview with the score when they said, what do you want to see in the next head coach?
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said accountability.
• 40:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that started coming out.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Kevin Byard said the same thing on an interview or maybe an oppressed conference or a scrunner on his locker, said, we need more accountability in this locker.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need a coach who's gonna hold people accountable.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, a lot of people immediately went to Tyreek Stevenson, who, of course, had the the disaster with the Hail Mary against Washington and then continue to play, you know, he got benched pseudo benched for Terrell Smith, but he still was getting played every game he never so that's truly benched and sat down the the way they handled that was a little weird.
• 41:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people went to that and said, well, maybe that's what I'm talking about.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you hear, it was a laxed meeting, people are eating omelettes in their morning meetings, things like that.
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You say, well, maybe that's what they're talking about.
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then this tie done article comes out.
• 41:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, where the bears just gave a royal throne to Caleb Williams and let him sit atop it and, you know, didn't push him on anything.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to me, and I'm making my own jumps on this.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: that when the players are saying they want accountability and then an article like this comes out that says the coaches weren't really holding him accountable.
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it may have been directed largely at Caleb Williams, 100%.
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think, you know, now again, Ben Johnson is, you know, that January when he was hired, oh, he's an offensive coordinator, he's not a leader of men, that's why they should have hired Mike Freibald, all that stuff.
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's BS, I think that's already out the window.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time, I've heard that Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson are on the same page and, and Caleb Williams is putting in the work.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if that is true,
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Caleb Williams is putting in the work and Ben Johnson and him are going to get on the same page that the players will respect that and that'll start being reflected through the rest of the locker room and and throughout the season.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of where he is with his teammates, I don't really know because I think there was a
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a false bubble put up and everything was hunky dory bears are losing in a 10 game losing street, but everything's hunky dory We knew that wasn't the case and now we're starting to see that potentially some of the warts were there with Caleb Williams as well So I do think look if I'd be in totally honest I do think when you're talking to a bunch of coaches that were fired who quarterback in a Seth Wickerson book says that nobody taught me how to watch tape And I had to watch it on my own.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're gonna be defensive and they're gonna come out kind of swinging a little bit and I think that's what happened
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when multiple sources are telling the reporter the same story, yeah, it could be a little loaded in terms of one direction, but there's truth there as well.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Ben Johnson, yes, he's got to clean up the offense, he's got to clean up things on the field, but there is definitely a culture.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he's been working on it since he got there in January that the bears also need to correct.
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think Ben's the guy to do it.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, forget Caleb.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know it's a trigger warning for bear's fan.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I won't say tie done again.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Forget Caleb, you guys have an issue.
• 43:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And your issue is you now have a head coach and a general manager.
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, we can start talking about Ryan Pulse.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: What a clown.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: What an overrated and people listen to this podcast they will not be triggered by you calling Ryan Okay, okay, because there's been a lot of criticism of Ryan polls on this podcast all do respect to the kid all do respect to Ryan polls That is a guy acting like what he think of what he thinks a general manager should do I've texted you a million times There is not a bigger podcast in the world in part of my take Ryan come back to me
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're an NFL franchise.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is no need for brand extension.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are you going on part of my take for?
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go do your FB and job.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can sit and grow up, kid.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this concept, the Sabbath, I thought, the dyslexia, all the stuff about Caleb, you created that by how you brought Caleb into your organization.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: you created the sense that he doesn't have to listen to the coaches.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: That energy was already there.
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The idea that you were undermining other players because you already had your mind made up like this concept that there was even a field's debate where we're going to keep them or we're going to take Caleb Williams.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You had a one-track mind to go Caleb Williams and to not do your due diligence on
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: on May and undermine it.
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you, you have a dude that's scented running your organization.
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now you bring in, you just nailed it.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've nerded that people wondered, could he Ben Johnson lead men?
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ben Johnson is going to be the de facto general manager and the de facto president and coach of that team.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to take some time.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's my take after the done story.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, and again, my apologies, the riot polls.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he's a nice guy.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's obviously some deficiencies there.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you read part three, Brian Poles may not be a nice guy, like literally a story that he fired.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please tell me, there is a story in part three that a scout called Ryan Poles from the emergency room, because his wife had gone in the labor and Ryan Poles fired him on the phone.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or basically said, when you get back, we're going to have to talk about your job performance.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let me just say this, your Ryan polls, your running taxes, your running Michigan popping on part of my take makes a ton of, and again, those guys are great popping on that makes sense.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a brand extension.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bears don't need extension.
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You go do your job and that so I'm not surprised when I start to see some of these inefficiencies from polls that would be my take there.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again,
• 46:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're good for three quarters.
• 46:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Take a deep breath.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Williams is going to be fine.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: No quarterback was in a proper spot last Shane Walzer and some words worse play caller I've ever seen we talked about that you're going to be fine.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and further on polls, I think, and here's where I was, you know, is we, you know, you give him a benefit of the doubt when he gets here.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: He makes the chase clay pool move and I said they're going, I don't know about chase clay pool, but at the time, I remember going, at least he's trying to do something for Justin Fields, because at the time he had, he had, he had,
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, stripped the offense down to the studs and just some fields was left with nothing.
• 47:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, it's just the fields had only been in the league for a year.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as as a bear's fan, someone covered in the bear show, you got to support this guy.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he had done nothing for it.
• 47:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they brought in Byron Pringle as their big wide receiver, you know, acquisition.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to work.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they bring in the chase couple.
• 47:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, all right, at least he's trying something.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then as this continues to go on, his draft evaluations with valous Jones and Zach Pickens who they just cut.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's had no success with third round picks.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: His day three picks.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: He keeps hanging his hat on Braxton Jones.
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where you find a starting left tack on the fifth round.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a heck of a job.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's not much else there on day three.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you sit there and go, yeah, he's hitting on round one.
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing pretty well on round two.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: If Puppa players can hit on round one.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's the thing here is, all right, if Caleb Williams is the guy, you're going to be paying him 75 million a year.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're going to, like he keeps being able to fix his draft misses.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: with free agent spending, and finally the bears have gotten to the point where they're now up against the cap, they're not going to be able to do that.
• 48:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those day three picks, they don't have to turn into Eddie Jackson, but they do need to become regular contributors, and he hasn't done that.
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Dan Weater of the Chicago Tribune in like November of last year puts out a piece about, you know, Nate Davis, who was a disaster here, and literally a guy who was
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, fix him.
• 48:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, guy saying, don't trade for Chase Claypool.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, ah, we'll fix it.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's dismissed, like Dan Weeder has stuff about him dismissing his staff and doing whatever he wants anyway.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when the article comes out that Ryan Polls is dismissing scouts and saying basically Caleb Williams is great and Matt trying to laugh the other quarterbacks off the screen,
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: it jives with what we had previously heard about.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got a general manager who I think questionable decisions in the draft not listening to his staff the way he probably should.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also apparently keeping the football operations on eggshells with how he's fired a lot of people and smiles to their face and then fires them behind their back.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of dysfunction in football operations.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where you sit there and go, well, this is Ben Johnson show and I agree with you.
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is Ben Johnson show.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is when I, and I'm not saying it's Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes, but I'm bringing up the Chiefs as an example, that's Andy Reed show.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got final say on things.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the structure the bears haven't said that.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know they like to use the word collaboration.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think this is Ben Johnson show.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's making decisions.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I talked to you about this before the interview.
• 50:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll bring it up now.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Rick Smith, Ben Johnson's agent.
• 50:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had him on my podcast.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It did really well.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got covered all throughout the Chicago media.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because phenomenally transparent when he was on.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there was something that came out from Albert Brear about GM alignment with the head coach.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Ben Johnson wanted.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone thought that meant starting fresh with a GM and a head coach.
• 50:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, well, Ryan Polls would have to get fired.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then everyone was like, well, that's why the Raiders blew out Tolasco because they wanted to have GM alignment with invades.
• 50:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I had the, the agent on, I said, so is that what GM alignment meant?
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said, no, that's not what GM alignment meant.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: He goes general managers fall in love with their guys, free agent signings, drivers, whoever it is.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They love their guys and they want to stick to their guys.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: GM alignment is the GM and Ben having the same vision where a GM is okay getting rid of his guys,
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: To me, and when I heard that, I'm like Ben Johnson's running the show and wants to be able to tell a GM, though, this guy stinks, get him out of here.
• 51:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what that was to me.
• 51:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I was just like, GM alignment is, this is Ben's show.
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: look for like a different operation, forget the fourth quarter, that's learning as you go.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you forget the box core, you have to go by feel.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like there was a professional football team out there for the Chicago Bears.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's, I think this is a Bears podcast.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you guys should take a step back and under Ebrof Lewis was, I mean,
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the higher of eberfluous is a joke.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: No personality.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: My nephew says, Riz, no freaking Riz, like just absolutely a zero.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Johnson's going to be fine.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like his comportment, like his vibe.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: May I ask you a question?
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course.
• 52:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of Dan Campbell?
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this has always been my stance on Dan Campbell.
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Dan Campbell is a great leader, great culture builder, the guy that you want standing up in the locker room after a tough loss or a tough win.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to say the right things and get the locker rooms heads where they need to be.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: My thought with Dan Campbell was always how good is he as a true strategist on Sunday set up game plans, get things ready.
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: How much of that was Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson?
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, we're going to find out this here after week one certainly leave some some questions.
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, put this is the NFL is a very physical game.
• 52:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we forget that it's also very cerebral.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dan Campbell, I know people, you know people that cover the bears, I know people that cover the lions is a very smart guy.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dan Campbell, all my friends work at Ford, everybody in Michigan, you could run for governor and mayor at the same time and he'd win in a landslide.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is not a good guy.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a great guy.
• 53:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is not my problem.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: My problem always was this is a quadruple billion dollar business.
• 53:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's be adults and I want to keep Ben Johnson.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We scored 33.5 points a game.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just forward in real time six points in game one without Ben Johnson.
• 53:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Aaron Glenn, bond, love looked super efficient.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be the most fascinating storyline of the year moving forward because the Rick Lair promos after 15 wins that Dan Campbell was studying in the locker room after the games.
• 53:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: that stick drove me crazy because it's so easy to get caught up in a hey brother I love you you guys are the best blah blah blah but when push comes to shove and we saw it in green bay Matt LaFlor ran circles around Dan Campbell and obviously Morton was on a script and didn't know what to do.
• 54:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: that you got the best tandem in football.
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the underrated thing Bear Span's about Ben Johnson.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to love the fact that he gets the run game going in 2025.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Montgomery Gibbs had 44 combined yards against the Green Bay Packers.
• 54:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even realize it was that bad.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: One.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, it's almost, you could go, tall place, your dog could go, call, place, and get 44 yards with Gibbs and Montgomery.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can't run the flapping football with, and again, NFL or ESPN just put Jared Goff is a 16th best player in football.
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry people, use your eyeballs.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jared Goff is a below average quarterback.
• 54:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: If everything is perfect,
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: he can put up numbers.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can't run the football, you can't do anything with Jared Gaw.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean McVay.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean McVay got rid of him at 26, 27 years old after he went to a Super Bowl because he knows he's limited.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's my take on Dan Campbell and the Detroit lines.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that's all fair.
• 55:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And look, beyond even Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn, which we knew we're going to be big losses for this team.
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: the coaching staff got rated.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys lost eight guys off the staff at, you know, obviously the two coordinators, but JT Barrett is now in Chicago.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Antoine Randalela is in Chicago.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Frable's DC was was your D-line coach.
• 55:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Glenn took I can't think of the often the jet's offensive coordinator.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of his name.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So all these other coaches, the passing game coordinators and quarterback coach and wide receiver coach and all these other coaches that everyone across the leagues and these were good quality coaches, they not lost as well.
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, trying to flip an entire coaching step that I think.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone would say that, you know, the Lions didn't have the best coaching staff in the league.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Dan Campbell gets credit for putting that together and he may put together a great coaching staff again, but trying to snap your fingers and replace those eight guys was always going to be a challenge.
• 56:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always thought the Lions were going to regret.
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you told me when you had me on your show that you thought they were going to miss the playoffs.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still thought they were going to make the playoffs.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I thought this was going to be a nine, ten-win team.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: If that continues, and maybe you're right, maybe this is a team that's going to fall even further.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, I don't, it's going to be fascinating.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pulling for them.
• 56:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty obvious.
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the golf thing is fascinating.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: The, the talent is there.
• 56:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Touch and sin is healthy a little bit chicken with this head cut off still running around.
• 56:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Glenn was good for that defense.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the underrated thing.
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody talks about Ben Johnson, the player's loved one.
• 57:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: the players love Aaron Glenn and you know it's fascinating what you saw from fields it's funny with the juxtaposition of fields actually showing and proving it offensively with the jets Glenn kind of feeling like you have an organization that's professional there.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: the Dan Campbell thing, he is a wonderful guy.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was a schedule that set the lines up perfectly last year and then when push came the show of Washington came in and won that game easily outright on the field that forward field last year.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a fascinating year for a guy that everybody loves in Dan Campbell.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it really is, and the Lions look, this game coming up on Sunday, it's important for the Bears, obviously, but this one, because I didn't even realize this, I was like, all right, who does, because I knew the Bears have Chicago in week three, who do the Lions have in week three, at the Baltimore Ravens?
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if the Bears look up, and Johnson comes in motivated and gets the Lions to Owen, too.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys might be staring at Owen free and that with the NFC the way it is, I mean the North is going to be challenging enough, but I said the one thing that's interesting about the NFC there are like 11 or 12 teams that you can argue are play off caliber teams not top heavy like the AFC like you want to write like the top teams and you know the three out of the four of the top teams are going to be in the AFC but then when you start looking through teams like five through 15
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to start feeling it a lot heavier towards the NFC with still just a few AFC teams sprinkled in.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lions start off Owen three.
• 58:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying they will.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can it's indeterminate.
• 58:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can clearly win on Sunday.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if the Lions do start off Owen three, it might be one of those things where things could spiral.
• 58:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a big challenge for Dan Campbell to see how he handles the adversity.
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't, I, look, I think the numbers five and a half, maybe a couple shops are showing six with the Lions favorite.
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a ridiculous number.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the bears have every opportunity to go and have been that fall game on Sunday at four fields.
• 59:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have to be careful as football fans just to assume remember every year you're going to get six or seven new playoff teams.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a lip at every single year.
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why is the assumption the lines are just going to be a 15-wint team?
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I got a lot of talent on the field.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you watch Green Bay?
• 59:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just say it.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I think Gibbs, you got, I'm not so, you got ASB, you've got Hutchinson, you have a Brian Branch.
• 59:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you have, that's great.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are several red and blue chip players all over the field.
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why the assumption is there.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Billy Z. I love you, brother.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've known you for for many, many years.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can have those players and do what you want with them.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to coach them up.
• 59:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to scheme them up.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think here's the take away I would say the Green Bay Packers and keep in Jordan love has become a lightning rod.
• 1:00:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: All you have to do is go back to a couple of years ago, Thanksgiving Jordan love at Detroit at one of the better games you're ever going to see from a quarterback.
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell you something right now, dialing in on Parsons, and you only what 30 snaps.
• 1:00:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is, he's a difference maker.
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: That team, love is throwing to nobody.
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That team is going to get better if they stay healthy.
• 1:00:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a legit superbolting.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: That forget to try.
• 1:00:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give them a pass.
• 1:00:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were playing a very freaking good football team.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Minnesota and Green Bay are legit.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Get, no, they're legitimately good.
• 1:00:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the Parsons move, look, there's a lot of parallels with the Parsons move to the 2018 Bears.
• 1:00:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That 2018 Bears roster had, you know, obviously, personnel's a little different had the excellent defense.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when 12 games with Mitch Tribiski and Jordan love, nobody even people in Chicago would say that Mitch Tribiski is better than Jordan love.
• 1:01:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you have the 2018 Bears with Jordan love instead of Mitch Tribiski,
• 1:01:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's this team that is going to be a serious contender and a contender moving forward.
• 1:01:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Bears fans, you know, who want things to only want bad things for the Packers, and I'm sure Lions fans are the same way.
• 1:01:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sit there and go, well, after 2018, you know, the Bears never won more than eight games that didn't work out with Mac and they traded them.
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the same thing's gonna happen with Parsons.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not necessarily true, because like for the Packers history, you can look at Reggie White when they brought him in and want a Super Bowl.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where you can have the same alignment there with Parsons.
• 1:01:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the Parsons move is a huge deal.
• 1:01:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: That Packers team to me was a team with a ton of red shippers and not really any blue shippers.
• 1:01:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then you bring in a guy like Parsons that elevates everyone around him.
• 1:01:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Packers, I hate to say it as one of those, you know, as someone who, yeah, I want the Packers to win four games.
• 1:02:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: a year, of course.
• 1:02:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the Packers are a legitimate team.
• 1:02:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the Parsons move made them the best in the class.
• 1:02:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I told you on this was pre Parsons on your show that if, and you know, as a bears fan, I know I'm not allowed to say these things, but I said, I'd put money on the Vikings because everything else was in place and if JJ's the guy, that's the best price if you're going, if you're going to gamble on it.
• 1:02:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: will see obviously McCarthy needs to play like the fourth quarter and not like the first three quarters, but you're looking at an NFC North right now where after one week and we're doing over reactions, the top two teams are the, are the Vikings and the, and the Packers and we'll see how that plays out and the lines and the bears they may have, they may be pretty good.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not saying that both these teams are bad, but both these teams are not as good and ready for the prime time as those other two.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: When summation, what have we learned?
• 1:02:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, a couple of things.
• 1:02:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: One, you and I have been doing this podcast for many years.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And by the time we do our second podcast Thanksgiving, I think you would agree.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is literally the most fascinating the NFC North has been in our lifetime.
• 1:03:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: they're actually without question.
• 1:03:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is, it is, it is a lion's team that had been futureed for 80 plus years that all the sudden now is a team that the expectations way may be the reality.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bears finally have a quarter back they've never had one.
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Green Bay Packers have an over-dimension redemptive underdog after farf and obviously Rogers and now can love be it.
• 1:03:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Minnesota may have the best roster in football with a 22-year-old quarterback.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fascinating division.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's fascinating.
• 1:03:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's phenomenal.
• 1:03:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's talented.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The coaching staff, the coaches are great.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: The players are great.
• 1:03:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be really interesting moving forward all season.
• 1:04:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So before I let you go, Patrick, I can't let you go without a prediction.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you see Sunday's game playing out?
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be texting you on Sunday, I have a weird feeling Detroit will get better at it's a brutal schedule.
• 1:04:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a weird feeling Detroit will get better as a season progresses.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it happens over the next couple of days.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be an outright win for the bears on Sunday in Detroit.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really.
• 1:04:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: being, I think Johnson is very smart.
• 1:04:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Johnson knows Detroit.
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's going to be a step ahead comes Sunday.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that I think the bear is going to win it outright.
• 1:04:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So take the points.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:04:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: There it is, Patrick.
• 1:04:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, hold on.
• 1:04:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's your prediction?
• 1:04:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I usually give my prediction at the end.
• 1:04:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right, I'll throw it at you here through.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think the lions are gonna win.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's gonna be close.
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just to me, it's gonna come down to the talent on the field, the lion still have more talent.
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I do see what you're saying.
• 1:05:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know Ben's gonna wanna really show up into Troy.
• 1:05:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's gonna really wanna, you know, basically tell the fans, hey, this is what you're missing.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think there is something to, he knows that lion's personnel inside it out.
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's gonna be able to sit down with Dennis Allen and just be like,
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: When Jamot does this, this is happening.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: When ASB is lined up here, this is happening.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be able to give a lot of insight that I do think is going to help Dennis Allen and help this team.
• 1:05:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I still sit there and go on the road.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: For Ben Johnson still in an experience head coach, I still would lean to joy.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I do agree.
• 1:05:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it'd be within the number.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, let's be fair to your podcast audience.
• 1:05:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did we not record the 745 West Coast time?
• 1:05:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good line in spanned from my buddy, Billy's knee right there.
• 1:05:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.
• 1:05:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Brighton early for Patrick Maher.
• 1:05:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, peace and live, you can hear it.
• 1:05:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Every night, well, weeknights, I should say, say it's Sunday, give him a day off.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: week nights on Mad Dog Sports Radio 7, the 10 Chicago time.
• 1:06:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you check that out on serious XM.
• 1:06:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Patrick, thanks for so much time.
• 1:06:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for our our yearly chat and you know, I'd wish your team the best of luck but you're in the wrong division.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I hope you have a miserable season.
• 1:06:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it again at Thanksgiving.
• 1:06:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Billy Z. All right, there he is, Patrick Maher, everybody.
• 1:06:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I always like having Patrick on.
• 1:06:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know I usually go with Chicago personalities, but again, Patrick, he's an NFC North guy, he's a Detroit guy.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: He follows the league closely, and it's always a really good conversation.
• 1:06:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always think it's worth.
• 1:06:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: get in that content on for you guys, even though it's not a bear's beatwriter, a Chicago radio personality, always think Patrick does a really good job when he comes on this podcast.
• 1:06:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, and I think here's the other, Patrick is objective.
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you've heard him in years past, him waxing poetic about Ben Johnson.
• 1:06:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Him expecting Ben Johnson to eventually end up in Chicago, and obviously he was right about that, and we'll see how Ben works out here.
• 1:07:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you know, not not a great start with the loss there in week one, but a lot of positive signs as well from what we saw with Ben's offensive scheme.
• 1:07:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get to the mailback.
• 1:07:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's going to take too long this week.
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of comments, not as many questions.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, a lot of comments regarding Caleb Williams.
• 1:07:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get to some of them here.
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with Groot and 244 will the bears explore trading for another running back.
• 1:07:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Swift is not a workhorse back and needs a partner in crime.
• 1:07:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: He does, Groen, but I don't think they're going to explore for running back.
• 1:07:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had opportunities to do this.
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping this was something they were going to do in the off season.
• 1:07:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: They chose not to do it.
• 1:07:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when I look at this, yes, they did not give Kalmanangai a chance.
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a seventh round rookie.
• 1:07:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: He played a little bit, but they basically gave Swift the ball wall to wall there from
• 1:07:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: that Rochon Johnson is that partner in crime.
• 1:08:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I've heard frequently that they really like Rochon Johnson.
• 1:08:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to me, that makes a lot of sense that he could become the in-between the tackles guy, the Jamal Williams role to DeAndre Swift, the first year in Ben Johnson was calling plays into Troy.
• 1:08:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a definite possibility.
• 1:08:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Manangai was going to get more usage in week one because of that, but they did go with Swift.
• 1:08:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I will say this.
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was impressed with some of Swift's runs.
• 1:08:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously the full stats were bad, but the run scheme was not cohesive.
• 1:08:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was clunky.
• 1:08:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were a lot of misblocks.
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It did not look the way Ben Johnson wanted it to look.
• 1:08:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guarantee you that.
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that run scheme
• 1:08:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought was going to be better.
• 1:08:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was going to be better in week one.
• 1:08:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I expected that to have better results in the run game.
• 1:08:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't expect Swift to have 20 carries for 160 yards, but I did accept Swift to be more in the 70, 80 yard range, and he barely eclipse 50 yards.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of room for improvement there.
• 1:09:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think Swift,
• 1:09:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you.
• 1:09:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ideally, has that partner in crime?
• 1:09:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see when Rochon Johnson gets back on the field.
• 1:09:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see if Kyle Menongai gets a little more run in terms of actually being a backfield component.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see if DJ Moore, if that continues, if him trying to be involved in the run game, how they see that moving forward.
• 1:09:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 1:09:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: To answer your question in a long-winded, you know, a bunch of gobbledy group that I've been spewing into the microphone.
• 1:09:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think they're going to explore a trade.
• 1:09:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think they're going to end up going with the guys.
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going with at this point because I do think you're right.
• 1:09:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think partner in crime is the way to go at the Andre Swift.
• 1:09:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they see it as Rochon Johnson.
• 1:09:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is we just can't seem to keep Rochon Johnson on the field.
• 1:09:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: for the Chicago Bears.
• 1:09:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, Betsy Tar.
• 1:09:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it's true that Ben is sharing power with Paul, should we be concerned?
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Paul's at best is mid, but we have no idea if Ben can evaluate talent, given he had a great GM in Detroit.
• 1:10:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Betsy, I don't even know if it's sharing power.
• 1:10:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Ben has the majority of the powers.
• 1:10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So look, here's what you say.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You say polls is mid.
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna agree with you there.
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think polls is a very mediocre GM.
• 1:10:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said in the past, he does some things well.
• 1:10:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, and I hate bringing up tie-dons article because I know you people sit there
• 1:10:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You start twitching a little bit when we mention the name, but at the same time, there were things brought up there that make you that should give you more concerns about Ryan polls and again, if you want to blow off the stuff about Caleb Williams because it's coaches with an axe to grind those sources and in parts two and three on Ryan polls were not.
• 1:10:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: X coaches with an X to grind.
• 1:10:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He stated specifically in there that they were current employees at Palace Hall that were in those rooms where Drake May was laughed off the video and Jaden Daniels wasn't really considered.
• 1:11:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the way he's handled firing coaches and changing personnel in there, firing scouts, I should say, and people in the, um,
• 1:11:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: in the football operations department.
• 1:11:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are concerns there about Ryan Pulse.
• 1:11:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's nothing in there.
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You wanna ignore it all, that's up to you.
• 1:11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there's nothing in there that would make you think more highly of Ryan Pulse if you already think he's a mediocre general manager, which I agree with you.
• 1:11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't have given him an extension.
• 1:11:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have seen how this year goes and possibly changed it up after this year.
• 1:11:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that's not a cohesive plan at all, but the bears haven't had a cohesive plan in the last couple years anyways.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what the hell's the difference?
• 1:11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know Ben Johnson is here that's right now that's the only cohesion you get.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I would have waited for this extension.
• 1:11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would assume it was George McCaskey based on the things I've heard and read.
• 1:11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It certainly doesn't seem like Kevin Warren was lining up to give Ryan Polls an extension.
• 1:11:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that came from George McCaskey.
• 1:11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's here for the next several years with Ben Johnson.
• 1:12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my answer to that Betsy is if we think Ryan Polls is bad,
• 1:12:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: then why not try Ben Johnson because it can't get any worse.
• 1:12:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's Ben Johnson going to be the guy grinding the tape on the six seventh round picks on defense.
• 1:12:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think so.
• 1:12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why you have a scouting department.
• 1:12:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why you have a general manager.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But his Ben Johnson going to take a larger role in free agent signings and how this roster is constructed and the draft picks especially on day one and day two.
• 1:12:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say
• 1:12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Ryan polls is either, so I think in the long run, give the power to Ben Johnson and see where the roster goes and how this team goes, and hopefully it all comes together.
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you just stick with mid and don't let Ben Johnson have any control there, then you're going to continue with mid.
• 1:12:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think change if that's what it is, is better in this case.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lee Wheatley.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: The game has gotten too fast for Caleb, Ben and the D also no run game hurts all quarterbacks.
• 1:13:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Lee, I agree with you on the run game situation.
• 1:13:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: They need a more cohesive running game.
• 1:13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: They cannot have the run game the way it looked against Minnesota.
• 1:13:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now at the same time, Minnesota's defense is excellent.
• 1:13:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: They've beefed up their defensive line.
• 1:13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was not an easy team to run again.
• 1:13:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now the next two weeks, yesterday Troy does Aiden Hutchinson, but there's more
• 1:13:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: the Detroit team should be easier to run against and Dallas's defense isn't very good either.
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we should see a better running game in the next couple of weeks.
• 1:13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: If we don't, that's gonna be bigger cause for a concern.
• 1:13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you start with a team like Minnesota, you say, okay, I can't run the football, but it may have just been that they couldn't run the football against Minnesota.
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to see how this looks a little better moving forward.
• 1:13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if it does look better, it's certainly going to help.
• 1:13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: the coaching staff in terms of making the past game work better.
• 1:14:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's certainly going to help Caleb Williams settle more in the pocket and relax a little bit and that is something he desperately needs to do.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Neil with a case says, I'm more resigned to our fate than panic at this point.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It'll just never work out.
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Neil, I get
• 1:14:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: that kind of expectation and that kind of assumption.
• 1:14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel it a little bit trying to bubble up and I'm trying to suppress it a little bit because you sit there and say, yeah, like, now it doesn't work with anything we try and now it's not gonna work with Caleb Williams either.
• 1:14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who cares, bears suck, bear down.
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I get having that feeling.
• 1:14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am trying to avoid that feeling as I just said in the opening segment and talking to Patrick Patrick.
• 1:14:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: is as more faith in Caleb Williams right now than I do.
• 1:14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I have been a big supporter of Caleb Williams.
• 1:14:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: The natural talent is all over the tape.
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even in the awful games, the natural talent is still there.
• 1:14:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm still holding out hope.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, the ceiling is lowering every time.
• 1:15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We see a game like that, but we'll see what happens.
• 1:15:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, throw out Dan Orlowski and I know he said it in the summer and everyone yelled at him.
• 1:15:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I have differences of opinions with Daniel Lafsky all the time, but he said it was going to take Ben Johnson years to get Caleb Williams to operate the way he needs to operate at the NFL level.
• 1:15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben, um, Daniel Lafsky was basically saying it was going to take all of this year and all of next year.
• 1:15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, like I said, some of the issues I see with Caleb, I'm worried are not going to be able to be coached out of him, but I am not an offensive genius.
• 1:15:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am certainly not a pen Johnson's level.
• 1:15:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So at some point, you do have to trust Ben Johnson to get it done.
• 1:15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Rick T. Name a quarterback that is never comfortable behind his offensive line and still performs well.
• 1:15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chicago will not develop or have a great QB until they have a great OL.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Rex Orton Cup or Mitch Fields.
• 1:15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, see will, maybe there are other issues at play.
• 1:16:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll say this, Rick, about Caleb's performance.
• 1:16:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not blaming Caleb's performance on the offensive line.
• 1:16:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought they gave Caleb adequate time to throw most of the time.
• 1:16:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, when you look at the offensive lines, overall performance, it did not block well in the run game.
• 1:16:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It blocked much better in the past game.
• 1:16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought
• 1:16:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Braxton Jones, overall was okay.
• 1:16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Darnell, right played well, Joe Tunis, a great pass blocker.
• 1:16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Dalman and Jackson in the middle was a little sketchy.
• 1:16:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: But overall, like the offensive line was enough.
• 1:16:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you put that offensive line in front of Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar, Jackson, they would have still been able to perform.
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm obviously not putting Caleb Williams in that category, but what I am saying is it was adequate.
• 1:16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was enough for the Chicago Bears to have an adequate cohesive functional offense.
• 1:16:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't need to be great.
• 1:16:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It needed to be more functional than it was.
• 1:16:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought they gave Caleb enough time.
• 1:17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You saw Caleb scrambling around a lot.
• 1:17:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, a couple of the plays.
• 1:17:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were a disaster.
• 1:17:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: They got blown up immediately.
• 1:17:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That happens.
• 1:17:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it didn't happen.
• 1:17:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But from Caleb Williams perspective, there was enough time there.
• 1:17:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of the times you saw him bail out of the pocket and scramble and things like that, it's because he missed a read that was open.
• 1:17:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you watch the All 22, he missed a read, took an extra beat with the ball.
• 1:17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: The ball would have been out, and we never would have been talking about.
• 1:17:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: the offensive line.
• 1:17:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Johnson wants that ball out before three seconds.
• 1:17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wants it out regularly.
• 1:17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if Caleb starts doing that regularly, then the offensive line is going to look a lot better.
• 1:17:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that'll do it for the mailback.
• 1:17:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get to the prediction here before we sign off for the day.
• 1:17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you heard by prediction a little bit there I'll go into more details.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Patrick is sitting there saying the bears are going to go and beat the lines and it makes sense because Ben Johnson knows that roster up and down.
• 1:18:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He knows what the Dan Campbell wants to accomplish.
• 1:18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a master strategizer, which is what we know Ben is when he puts together those offensive game plans.
• 1:18:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He should be able.
• 1:18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: to figure out some things and be able to exploit some issues with the Detroit Lions that maybe even Dan Campbell doesn't even realize her there.
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think that is a very fair point and I think that's very possible.
• 1:18:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would sit there and look at the Ben Johnson Bowl and had the Vikings game looked a little better.
• 1:18:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I might be coming in with a different mentality going into this game.
• 1:18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I still look at where this offense currently is.
• 1:18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: sit there and say they are still going to have some functionality issues in week two.
• 1:18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when I look at this, I still look at, you know, maybe the better stuff of better coaching staff than the Detroit lines at this point.
• 1:18:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would think they probably do, but the Detroit lines, when you look at the dates, not like they're, I think their coaching staff is awful.
• 1:19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just not nearly what it was.
• 1:19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It went from an elite staff to an average maybe a below average
• 1:19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you look at this game, the Detroit Lions have more talent on the field period end of story.
• 1:19:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are a more talented football team.
• 1:19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now that the Bears talent will continue to rise, the Bears coaches will continue to get better.
• 1:19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when they beat at the end of the year, if that game matters, it might be two very different teams playing at Soldier Field.
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But right now,
• 1:19:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the Detroit Lions just based on talent alone and that the fact that the game is going to be into Detroit, I think you have to lean Lions on in this one.
• 1:19:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, point spreads kind of hefty there.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's in that five to six range.
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to bet the game.
• 1:19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would bet the bears to cover.
• 1:19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll do my.
• 1:19:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: My prop bets like I do every week went three and all last week on prop bets that's a nice start coming off of last season.
• 1:19:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when we look at this, we got to look at it fairly.
• 1:20:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We got to look at it objectively and say the Detroit Lions at home are a better football team.
• 1:20:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're picking the bears to win, you're picking the bears to win based on the idea that Ben Johnson is so good.
• 1:20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is just going to beat his former team.
• 1:20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while I do think Ben Johnson is very good, and I saw it on tape about scheming up an offensive game plan.
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw too many issues with the run game.
• 1:20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw Ben make a couple mistakes.
• 1:20:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: The challenge, just as Patrick brought up, the field, the field called the,
• 1:20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: the how he handled the end of the game with Cairo Santos.
• 1:20:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are some issues and I think Ben's a really smart guy.
• 1:20:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to learn from his mistakes and get better.
• 1:20:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we should still expect mistakes towards the end of the game because Ben's learning as we go here.
• 1:20:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's never had to do this before.
• 1:20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think everything looks a little better from a Chicago perspective, but I still think, unfortunately, they end up on the wrong side of this one and fall to Owen too.
• 1:20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say Lions 24 Bears 20.
• 1:20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So one score game, it's going to be anyone's game in the fourth quarter, but the experience of the Lions and the more talent on the field will be the difference.
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: 24, 20 Lions, the Bears, oh and two with a big game.
• 1:21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: If they want to try and get into the playoff on a big game in week three, against the Dallas Cowboys.
• 1:21:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to do it for Bears Banner.
• 1:21:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you next week.
• 1:21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bear it out, everybody.