Latest / Legally Brunette / Kato Kaelin: Mistakes the Prosecution made in the O.J. Simpson Trial

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Kato Kaelin: Mistakes the Prosecution made in the O.J. Simpson Trial · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everyone,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: welcome back to Killer Thriller. We're jumping back into our
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: conversation with Kato Kaelin, who ended up at the center
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: of one of the biggest trials in history. From what
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: that night actually felt like to how it's been portrayed
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: ever since, there is a lot more to unpack with Kato,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: what he saw, what he lived through, and how he
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: looks at all of it. Now, what's the one misconception
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: that drives you the craziest that people think? Like as
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: a public.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose because it doesn't bother me anymore because
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I'm older and I'm very secure. But back then, because
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I saw what the painting costs my mom, my family,
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: that there is this thing back in current affair, that
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: I was a drug dealer and I say this, Oh
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: my gosh, I've never and by the way, people will say,
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: I've never done a drug in my entire life, I
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: swear to God and people.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Because I had long hair, so it was like.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Oh man, I was kind of gappy, but I was like, okay,
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: and if I have a beer, that's rare.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I have a.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Back then, I maybe a beer in a month. Now
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: I can have a beer in a week or whatever.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't know which.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: It's not even it's just like, oh my god, I'm
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: not that that guy. And people go, oh, I saw you,
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: you did coc and all that. I said, No, I
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: never proved proved something to me. That's what people want
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: to just say things. So it was that would be
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: the thing. And I've got friends that do drugs and
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: smoke pot all the time. I have nothing against that's
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: their thing, right, So I'm still friends with them.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Like it's not it's not me, right do you have?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: So you have a daughter? How old your daughter?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: My daughter now is? She doesn't want to tell her age?
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Oh she doesn't.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, Oh she's she's uh in her late thirties. Late thirties.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: That doesn't seem possible that you could considering. Yeah, quite handsome.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: She she's in the cart.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: But what does she think about all of this?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: She was, she's the greatest Tiffany. She's amazing.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: So when she's a kid during the trot, and I'd
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: pick her up and not with her mom anymore, but
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I'd pick her up and all that she thought it
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: was kind of cool like that, and maybe her teachers knew,
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: maybe the kids knew from that and they thought, okay,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: it gives her some points.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: But I say, Tiff done, this is not good.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: And then the only bad part is there this time
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: it was I couldn't really even go out because at
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: that time, sure it was it was like a like
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: a beatle Mania, but people could go bad on me
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: or good on me. And it was it was crazy.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, where I lived, I had notes under the
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: door that I had the tmzs were out there. It
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: was you have to back in ninety four ninety five,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: it was it was insane. Yeah, it was insane.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was everything everywhere all the time. Time
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: there was that.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I was an int I became an introvert. I hated it.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Oh so when.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: She come by for the weekends and a halver, it
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: would be we just kind of had to hang out
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: at home, so we'd go out and all that, but
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: it was it was hard. So that was kind of
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: hard on her. But she's the greatest sense of humor.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: She's very funny.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So does she ask you about it now? Is
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: it still a no?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Not really, She's busying her own stuff that goes on
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: in life.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my own life, dad. Yeah. Do you think that
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: people would look at the case differently today than the nineties.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Do you think that we like, if this were to
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: happen today, it would be a different trial.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: It would be a completely different trial. I mean they would.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: It depends. It really is important to where the trial
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: takes place, like a downtown compared to Santa Monica.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I think they'd look at that.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I think you kind of look at it a trial
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: of if it's an election year, because I think prosecutors
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: or whatever that's going the das, they all want to
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: have it so they have a case that gets them votes.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: So I think that's all depends.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: But the advancements now of technology, because we do I
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: do shows we've had the best people in genealogy and
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: it's amazing because you cannot you can't get away with crime.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I think they'll find a match somehow, and we do
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: the stories of someone in your family. You can match
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: it up now. It's just incredible. So crime is like
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: the people have to be insane. I think they want
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: to have to be caught just they want to. I'll
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: tell you something that's amazing because you know you're doing
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: a crime show, and I do this crime. If you
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: go on I'm addicted to I find stories a lout
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: on ex Twitter, So if you just go on there,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: you'll be blown away out. Every day there's a killing
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: you won't believe is happening, and you just go what
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: humanity is sick?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Right, stuff that you would never even you can't believe.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that. I wonder if it's like, are
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: these things happening more or is it just that we
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: have exposure to that?
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I think both.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I think it happened more, but the exposure makes it. Yeah,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: And I think the more people become immune to it
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: makes it easier for them to do it, like, oh,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: it's a no right thing. I'll shoot up a school
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: and it's it's sort of like nothing. I mean think
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Does anything? Could anything surprise you? Now? What could be?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I mean Martians coming down?
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Man, But it's I'm ready for anything now, right.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: What was harder for you testifying or watching yourself testify
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: later on TV?
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, testifying ten times harder, because I really I don't
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: think I've ever gone back to watch me testifying Zeptan shows.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't watch the tapes.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: It was testifying because I'll never forget the feeling of
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: the attorney I had at the time of doing a
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: four am wake up to do a run before and.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Getting down there.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I was down there when I satisfied, I was actually
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: down there a lot more waiting in this room.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Closet.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Basically he sat there waiting to see you because I
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: was on call.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: So I just know. It screwed up my stomach big time.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: So I'm a very high strong person and I want
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: to make sure he did everything proper and it's just
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: right because I just wanted to justice to happen. So
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: I it just destroyed my insides.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I bet yeah.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: And now at that time, it was the hard copies
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: and the current affairs that would have a story all time.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: And when they ran that guy who used to go
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: on the all time saying I sold him drug, it
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: was whatever it was, and I was just go, oh
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: my god, this isn't true. So I kept had the
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: attorney go to the shows, have that person come face
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: to face, and I want this, yeah, And then they
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: turn out supposedly it turned out to be a producer
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: that was trying to.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Like egging him, trying to get.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: In the silhouette was actually a producer of some show
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: trying to do it for the ratings.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of things that were happenings.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: What how how did you feel when OJ died?
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: You know, I released something. Every I got my phone
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: was going off and all the shows. When I just said, uh,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: what I should do? I called some confided my really
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: great friends, and they kind of just said, why don't
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: you just put out your own like tweet social thing.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: I did a thirty second and I said, it's never
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: for the kids. I said, it's never hard to lose
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: a parent. My heart goes on to the kids. And
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I said, Nicole's a beacon of light. And I didn't
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: know Ron, but I'm sure that I hopefully brings closure
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: of these beautiful people that lost their lives. And I just,
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: I just I think that was the right thing to say. Yeah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: and just that, I.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Mean, this is another piece that sort of gets lost
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: that through all of this that you lost a friend,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: like this woman was your good friend.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the kids lost mom and dad, and you
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: know it was sort of you know, is it the
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: is the end of it? It's the end of it
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: with the o A. But this story always will go
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: on with every trial and it'll always be compared to that,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Like I said, the template, but that's what that's what
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: I released there of the you know, the beacon of
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: light that she was. And like I said, Ron, and
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I hope it's closure for people, which I don't think
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: it's ever gonna be closure for the Goldman family. Yeah,
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: I can't answer for the Browns, but I just I
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: think Kim put a statement.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Out, h.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Ohuld you still live in Brettwood.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: Oh no, So I don't live in Brettwhen I actually
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: where you're taping right now, is I walk because I'm
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: into Lucal, like the most wonderful around.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the best.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: So I live there and I do a lot of
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: the little article shared later just because it's just said
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: the man, the myth, your neighbor, Kato Kayla, the last Luke.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: At times, I love it because.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you ever are people ever like oh my god.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. I walk. It's like Norm from Cheers.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: So I go out on Riverside Drive.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: It's just I love it because it's very Wisconsin, because
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: people are friendly.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: It's like hey, Kato. So it's makes me feel fantastic.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Our other studio is very close. It's like right by
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Bundy and Gretory. It's very close to everything, all of it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I I think in the time that I
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: went to Bundy, it be after the trial.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It was at least twenty years. I never even went
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: in that area.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, I just didn't just my choice, but I
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: never did. I just didn't want to even go there.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: And then I got my The One Degree Scandal show.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: We went on the tour of everything, and I even
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: declined I wanted the Tom Zander's guy do the show with.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: He went there with the sights on Bundy, and so
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: that was my first time doing it.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that, like I didn't, But.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Now now I did. I think it's I it was
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: really healthy for me to do it. So I did it.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: We did the OJ and then it's so it's so
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: bizarre because we did the episode of Nick Reiner. Rob
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Reiner and I used to run a lot. I had
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: no idea. I used to run by Reiner's house. It's
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: it's like a minute away from Rocking, It's like a
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: minute away. And it was that he lived in the
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: guest house and so we went down there, and sure enough,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: as soon as I was doing my stand and doing
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: our piece, a car went by on one of those
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: SUV's the tinted windows, and it was the New York
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Post and they did a whole interview and I didn't know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: but it's it's so funny how that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Tragedy in Brentwood.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I don't get it right, right, that's a lot in one.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: I actually got married in May twenty one at David
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: Zucker's house.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: David walked my ride down.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: David did airplane, David did yeh naked scary movie.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Naked guns. Yeah, naked gun. So he walked. We did that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: He wasn't Retwood. So David, you know, had OJ and
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: all the naked gun movies. So during my speech I
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: had said, David, thank you for the use of your
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: house and thank you for not inviting Nordberg.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: So that's where he.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Was living, right, and yeah, because he's a Wisconsin guy,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: we're all Wisconsin.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: What did you think when he was getting arrested for
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: all the various things afterwards?
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: That's a great question. I this is so true. When
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: you hang around bad people, bad things happen. All the
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: people at OJ's hanging out with at that time were
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: we're just like criminal people, and criminal things happened, and
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: that's why the Vegas you know, we went to prison
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: in Vegas. That's why that stuff happened. That's why you know,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: there was some nine one calls with his daughter in Florida.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: There was other fights that happened. It was it was
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: the that fall from Grace. It was honestly so high
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: and then it just after the trial, he was a
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: broken man.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I think he didn't have that. He didn't have that.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: The people that I think adored him were not the
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: right people that were you want.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: To adore you, Well, he probably was running out of
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: people to adore him.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he probably made I mean, his
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: pension was never touched from NFL, and I'm sure he
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: got autograph shows. I don't know financially how he did,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: but he still was making a lot of money from
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: his pension.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Do you know, I think about his kids so much.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Do you know anything about what they're doing today or
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: how they are this.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: The only thing I heard was that Justin was in
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: some sort of thing going on in Vegas with the
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: house with not moving on. It wasn't it wasn't a
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: good thing. So that's the only thing I heard. I
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: heard Sydney was in real estate in Florida, and that's
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: it from what I heard. But I think they're doing okay.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: That's no touch of me communicating with them.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: That's what I've heard. Oh man, So okay, after all
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: of these years, what still doesn't sit right with you
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: about the case itself and the trial?
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I think what I I think it's kind of the jury.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: I I think that's it as it stands out, that
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: I would think that the prosecution didn't feel like they
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: were horrible about the DNA and how the defense had
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: bury Shack and I think that he kind of could
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: prove that, you know, there's contamination, and you know, I
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: think that wasn't true at all.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I think I think that's the biggest thing about it.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: That's I think turned the trial with the DNA evidence
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: of it was so much against OJ but somehow this
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: lawyer could turn it into this is.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: A I And so I agree, I don't know how
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: that happened.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and only because I don't take sides. I met
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: all the detectives. After all these years, I don't I
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: think there there's no way they would ever try to
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: plant evidence. People would go is, no, of course it's elither,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: it's corrupt. I just don't think that there's there's nothing
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: that they would have done.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Pretty extreme thing to do. Like when you break down
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: what their argument, what they were saying actually happened, it's
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: like that is so extreme for someone to do. Even
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the most racist cop ever like Furman, you can't it
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: just it's it's outrageous.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty areous. And how to do it?
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: You got to you got to plan there to be
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: a murder in the first place, to be there, and
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: you're on call.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: It comes at five eight, at four thirty am. To us,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: it's just.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Like no, no one would have thought this out, So
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: you know this. I also think another thing is there
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: was so much evidence that I think the worst part
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: also is the evidence that the prosecution didn't use. I
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: say this because I met all those people after the fact.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: I met a skip Junis, who is the guy whose
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: wife worked at American Airlines that night, who oj he
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: was then picking up his wife. He's parked behind the
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: limo and he watched him go into In the trial,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I described a like a backpack college backpack that He
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: didn't want me to touch the put in the luggage
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: because I was closer. He goes, no, I'll get that,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: and so that was never found. But Skip Junis saw
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: him get out of the limo and he couldn't figure
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: out why he put his hand this far down a
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: guard into the bag and then that far down a
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: garbage in the garbage, you know, knowing you throw out
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: something like this, just down in the garbage, putting this.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: And he worked as an advertising agency. He's a completely
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: trustworthy this guy. Skip Juna Is one of her episodes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: It's amazing that they use that didn't use that. They
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: didn't use Jill Shively, who saw the Bundy the car.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: You know, she didn't get used because supposedly she sold money.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: She got money from hard copy.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: But she's there. She called the it's a nine to
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: one call.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: She called, I think it's drunk driver, and then she
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: realized she memorized the plate and then she heard the voice.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: She goes, she happened to watch Naked Gun that night.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Before she goes, that's oj. He had his lights off
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: coming through the There was the sand descent in Bundy
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: coming up that way, and his car went up on
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: the curb and almost hit her. So she wrote it
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: down as a drunk driver. Oh god, that was the time.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Why didn't they.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: They thought it was because she sold it that they
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: the defense could say that, well, she was in it
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: for the money she made up.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: But the calls on tape and it's it's sort of
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: like those two very important witnesses were.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Never called right. And that was the same with fay Resnick. Right,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: wasn't she not able to testify or something because she
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: sold her story?
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Or it could have been maybe I don't remember the
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: faith thing, but yeah, she never called right. I think
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: sometimes the prosecution has their case. They you know, they
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: build the case. You know, you go to a grand jury,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: then the grand jury, then they go, okay, we can
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: build the case.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And they thought they i think, thought they had so.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Much evidence that they didn't need all that because they
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: found the blood they found these, the glove, the socks
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: that oh they didn't use the socks upstairs that were
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: had blood on the all the socks because they were
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: black socks. And they but they when they did it,
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: they found they were bloody. They never used those. They
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: found blood in the in the washing machine.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So this song.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: That's documented, never used. Well, Tom Lang, the detective, became
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: a friend. He has a book called Evidence Withdrawn. I
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: think it's called Evidence Dismissed and he explains it all
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: the evidence that they had that wasn't used, and he
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: got upset with the prosecution.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I don't write I would be too. That doesn't make
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: any sense. When when I spoke with Keith, he was
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: saying that that he was supposed to testify as well,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and then they ultimately said no because it had spun
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: so out of control with the racial stuff that it
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: had become about raised exactly, and they worried that they
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: would use him as an as an example of how okay, Well,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: oj knew that you were in a relationship with Nicole
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: and you were there around him and he never killed
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: you or never hurt you. So they took him out.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: I mean yeah, they had that because they saw he
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: had sex with her, I guess on a couch and
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: he was outside watching it. So I think that was
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: part of the argument, is like why didn't they why
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: didn't you go crazy?
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Then? Right? Right?
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: So?
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: And I will never know the answer to so many things.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: And I said that the correct I'm not going to
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: correct myself. But Tom Lange does have that book got
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: so I'm pretty positive stuff about Ducks. It's all in
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: there because I've met with him many times through the years.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Right, what do you how much do you think celebrity
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: had to do with this case?
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Uh? For the jury?
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Like ninety Percy, like.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I said, they liked him a lot, they loved they waved.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he was the I mean people, he
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: was charismatic guy, and he was in his films and
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: he was the hurts guy. He was, you know, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: OJ didn't see himself as black. He's you know, he said,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: I'm just I'm not black or white.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I'm OJ. So that was one of his quotes.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: That's the irony of them using race as some sort
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: of part of this is so crazy.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: So I think, you know, it's I think sometimes a
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: jury kind of goes in there. I've never been in
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: a jury, but I think you go back when you're sequestered.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: I think it's just so much time, and this is
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: like ten months, ten and a half months. You're long,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I got it, we got we we have no deed,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: nothing we got. So I think they kind of go, okay,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: let's just get going. I'll say I agree to that whatever, right,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: So you know, that's sort of a tough job.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I think people, really it's a very tough job.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I think you got to commit to all that time.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's impossible to know.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: What you're And this one was the question they didn't
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: get to leave which TV and see family?
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I remember seeing Oj. There was a Japanese restaurant on Wheelshire.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I cannot remember the name of it. Yes, big right,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: like big yes, yeah, up two floors, I think I
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: so I used to go in there all the time.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: We were sitting at the sushi bar. A friend of
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: mine and I and OJ came in with a woman
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: who looked just like Nicole, blonde, thin, sort of had
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: this scene. This was like, oh sorry. This was about
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: a year after the verdict, after he was released, and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the the the chefs were like, oh hello, you know,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: said hi to him, and the rest of the restaurant
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: just was and silent, and I'm thinking about her. You're
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: saying how much he loved that adulation and people and
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: no one was giving him that except for the chefs
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: were like saying hello to him, and he was looking
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: around as if people were admiring him. And I looked
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: at this young woman and went, what on earth are
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you doing? Like, how could this woman be on a
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: date with this man? And when she looked like she
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: looked like, I just was dumbfounded. And so to your point,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like people get.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wonder how she did she know?
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, how could she not?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly a.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Year after yes, I mean, it was still very sad,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: or she really like sushi.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: She maybe she is like, I have got to have
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: some of that. God, have some some hamachi.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I need some. I heard they got great Spanish mac roll. Okay, yeah, exactly,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: now you're paying right, Oh.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: My god, it's so crazy.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: That's pretty insane, that stuff. I would think.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: He this is the thing he got, probably the biggest
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: break in his life. He should have been never seen.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: He should have just gone to it.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I never been heard of.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I'd seen it, because what happened was that he should
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: have known that his life was never going to be
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: the same and he should have just laid low.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Instead, he had bad people know, you got more crime.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: And he went to jail, and you know, Nevada said
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: this is how you do it sort of thing, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: he was just like he because he loved to be seen.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: When your ego takes over, you're in big trouble.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, one last question before we talk about what
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: you're what you're doing now, what did you think about
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: this book of his If I did it well?
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: You know, I read excerpts from it because I was
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I wanted to kind of become.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: No sure somebody also has probably asked you to see it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: So the parts I read if this is not an
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: admission sort of a guilt, I don't know what it is.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And how I have no idea how the book got made.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Did someone just say we're going to make so much
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: money in this if if I did? And then the
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: way he explained it was on that show I think
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: it was Fox. We had Judth Reagan or whoever was
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: the interview the person did the book, I think it was.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: It was just like you felt like this man was
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: so guilty.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: You felt like, if I did it, well, this is
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: you know, and they they bring up a you know,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: there's stuff that's going on now with the trial, because
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: I'm getting context for the night of that people are
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: I think they want the story to go on. I
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: met the detectives they've had over one hundred and fifty detectives.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's O J. Simpson, only o J.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Simpson, but they they want to start doing things with
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: did OJ have help and that sort of thing. So
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: there's a story kind of happen. I think it's I
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: don't know if it'll be mad.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: So there's a.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: So a company called me if I would do an
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: interview and you know, and I just said, well, here's
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: my opinion. And then they said, oh, it's a good
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: that you have an opinion. We're having other people that
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: will be talking about it. So oh wow, Yeah, it's
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: it's a bizarre It's like I said, we started this thing.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: I think the story continues and continues. Yeah, and if
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: they can do a show on something, they're going to try.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: To right right, Well, all right, tell us what you're
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: up to now. I know you have a new show
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: called Murder in a Minute podcast one Degree of Scandalous,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: both great titles, by the way, So tell us where
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: we can find these things and what I'll tell you what.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: I just started this show called Murder in a Minute
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: while we're speaking. So it's a week and I have
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: a friend named Tom Mabe and those watching this world.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Tom Mabe is probably one of the original pranksters. Millions
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: of followers and social media I've been I did a
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: radio interview thirty one years ago. He and I never
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: lost touch from that interview with my world is making laughter,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: I'm all but really laughing.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You really have such a bright spirit like you truly do.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: You have such a lightness about.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: You, and I love laughing. So Tom's done.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: You can google it after stuff that I'm guarantee you've
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: seen that are hilarious. Anyways, he and I said, I
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: got this idea that I think it's just it's not hilarious,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: it's just so part of what's going on in the world.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: It's called murder in a minute. So you do these
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: short form videos and I shot seven six of them
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: and they just I posted one social media and it
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: just took off. And now I'm seeing the comments of
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: people going, is this do more?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Do more?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: So now is a narrative like what is it? Tell
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: me what?
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: So I sit like.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: We're here with the green screen, I just do it.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: One of the stories is, uh, that's doing the really
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: greatst I talk about Epstein and I said the Tova
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Noel is the guard who they found had a five
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars check and they found out that that she
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: was a security guard and then her in her partner,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: I guess supposedly went up. Prosecutors saw they fudge the
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: numbers on their their duty of checking at night. The understanding,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: so we go, I go, did he commit suicide?
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I sort of asked a question to the audience. I
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: have to see it. We do.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: The one on Austin Metcalf was the in Frisco, Texas
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: at the swap at the track meet who was stabbed
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: by Carmelo Anthony. And you know, he had a twin
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: and he was just good looking kid. He got it
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: right in the heart and.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: It was Anthony on the BASKETBA player.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Carmarl Anthony is the other guy's name too, it's different.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Was Carmelo with a K And this one show was
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: a high school track meet and so the guy had
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: a knife in his backpack when because he was sitting
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: in the uh Austin in the story to say he
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: was sitting in the other team's tent and Austin asked
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: him to leave, and it got to a gotten such
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: an anger that he did this.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: So now that's going to trial.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: So I said, as one family prepares for a funeral,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: the other prepares for a murder trial. Once again, it'll
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: be a huge trial in Texas's Uh wow, it's so
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: these stories and you kind of can tell the stories
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: because there everybody's interested on social media and these stories
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: and Murder in a Minute and Tom's and Louisville. But
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: he flies out every other week and we just tape
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: here into look a.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Lake and so we can find this on right now.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna YouTube because Murder a Minute and you
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: can go also on my social media Cato Underscore Kalin
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: on Instagram and Twitter. And after this, I have two
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: companies that I'll meet with and Thomas companies because he
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: has influencers to do this, and it's a break for
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: him because he wants to do something different from all
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: the comedy.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: So that's the thing that's going on.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: And honestly, it's I'm so proud. It's really really well done.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: And I'm not just saying because I'm in it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It's just great compelling. So I'm gonna make you watch one.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I will. I definitely will.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Then I do a long podcast, which is usually an
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: hour show, and we do uh it's called One Degree
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: of scandalis Tom Zenter and Tom is a broadcaster. He
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: was an NBC Sports in Chicago, Boston, the News and Phoenix,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: so he's sort of the play by play and I'm
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: the color on.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: The Got It and that's on YouTube.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: It's called One Degree of Scandalists and that's doing great
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: with subscriptions.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And and that's about something scared.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: That's scared. Well, no, that's pretty much murder.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: But we talk about uh, current and past, so we
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: do we so like the Menendez we actually go to
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: the sites of where the Menana's brothers went from the
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: house that whole night, and we go to the sites
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: of Richard Ramirror's We people love that we actually go
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: out and go to the actual sites and say this
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: is where he ate, this is the night.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: So we go there.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: But then we go Instant Studio and we talk about it,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: and then we get most of the directors from Netflix series,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: or we will get detectives that were interviewed in the series.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: And once again people love love that there's the true
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: crime and we're speaking right to the to the people
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: that are part of That's why Tom Lang from the
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Simpson Trius on my show a few times and my
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: relationship is became great friends. And we did a public
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: speaking I've gotten two engagements. We did the UH Seaside
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Detective Association Monterey and Carmel, so kind of near you,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and it was like so cathartic that I was speaking
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: to detectives and police and they loved it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure I mean.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they was uh.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: And then we had Tom lang Is, this detective who
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: did the Hillside Strangler.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: He did part of the.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: What was the mal Vell Kilmer but the up on Wonderland.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: So we did all the time we go there and
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: I love doing it. So we do those twice.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: A week and great. I will definitely in this.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Murder in a Minute.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: I'm so proud because this is my baby. I've been
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: thought thought about for a long time.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Amazing. Well, congrats, I am.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So statoo John Kato.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I am so happy to officially really meet you, and
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you taking the time to come here
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: and talk with me. And I am definitely checking out
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Murder in a Minute and one Degree of Scandalous and
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: the people V O. J. Simpson America Crime Story is
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: still streaming on Hulu. Cato your brand. Thank you so much.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: You're fantastic too. I'm so glad we met. This is fantastic.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Give me those feats.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Now that I won't be able to stand up.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: She's wonderful. Thanks for having me.