Latest / The HighDive / Ep. 6 | Stories of Hope | Navigating Loss

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Ep. 6 | Stories of Hope | Navigating Loss · The HighDive

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome everyone to the High Dive Podcast from Calvary Baptist Church.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: We are so glad that you're here.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: If we've not met yet, my name is Ricky.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have the honor of serving as lead pastor here at Calvary, and I'll be your host today.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you've been following along in our podcast, we're actually going to start today a new series.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're just going to call it Stories of Hope.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to be just kind of hearing stories from different people in our church over the next, I don't know, well, maybe five, could be six.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just see how many episodes we get in.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just hearing from people's stories and just seeing what we can learn from that.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're walking as a church through the psalms together.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about y'all, I've just been loving it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's been awesome.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, do you have a favorite psalm?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you get if you got to handpick your favorite, probably Psalm 23.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a favorite?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Psalm 103 has become my new favorite.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would I could Google this.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is what's 103?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: For as high as the heavens are above the earth.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh where our goal over this series that we're calling stories of hope is just to sit down with real people in our church, uh, just to kind of walk through their story, uh, the honesty of their real pain, their real questions, real sufferings, um, and yet through that all have discovered real hope.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So today we have Justin and Catherine Reynolds with us.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! Um, glad y'all are here.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: Glad to be here.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so for those who don't know you, kind of just tell us a little bit about who you are, how long have you been around Calvary?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all the things.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Long time for me.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I came in, uh would have been sixth grade.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: My dad started as one of the music teachers up here, and my mom was doing substitute teaching.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: At the school.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: At the school.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that brought us, me and my brother here.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: I stayed all the way through graduation in 07.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Catherine and I started dating that year, uh, proceeded to court each other, got engaged in 09, married in 2010.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: At 2010, we felt like we needed our own church of that, it was not a church she grew up in, it's not a church I grew up in.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we came over here, and it was like, oh yeah, this is absolutely where God has brought us to grow as a couple.
• 2:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's all.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: So for the last 16 years, we've been coming faithfully serving, and yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you you guys have kind of chose this to be your church home.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh most of your married life, you've been here, but then you know, now you're on staff.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So how long have you been on staff?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of what do you do?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this um July will be five years officially on staff um with Calvary as our women's director and children's ministry director.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you do an awesome job.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love it so much.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, let's kind of camp out there just for a minute.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, what are some, in case somebody's not yet connected, what are some ways that people could get connected in women's ministry or children's ministry or whatever?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so when with women's ministry, we've got Wednesday night Bible studies that are happening um throughout the school year.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have some opportunities throughout the summer as well.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have 5'11 tables, which are small groups that happen once a month in the home.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's geared more for um that deeper fellowship that you may not get that opportunity as much in the church setting.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to be able to connect with other women, encourage one another in gospel center conversation, and typically happens around table fellowship.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a sweet, sweet blessing, um, which also provides our women the opportunity to have someone when they walk through something hard.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's the group that they're going to to pray for them and walk through it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that may come up again in our conversation.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: What about kids' ministry?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, kids ministry, a lot to offer.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we need help in all areas, but there's opportunity for teaching a life group class.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can serve for children's church.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our Iwana ministry just wrapped up for the school year, but that is a beautiful ministry to come alongside kids and to help them understand the gospel and to hide God's word in their heart.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our next biggest event is VBS coming up, and that's all hands on deck in many different ways to serve that may not be teaching related, but just being able to love on kids and to point them to Jesus, whether it's through games or passing out a snack or missions, uh, there's a lot of opportunity to get involved.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh I'm so grateful for your ministry.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for y'all's ministry and for our friendship.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've just shared a lot of things about our church.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Again, if you're landing on this podcast for the very first time, we're calling it the High Dive Podcast.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be clear like our target audience is the people of Calvary Baptist Church.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that Calvary specific information may be beneficial.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: But regardless of where you are in the world on the interwebs, if you found this, we hope that you're blessed and encouraged by it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So click in the show notes for for more information about our church if you are connecting to us locally.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're from somewhere in the world and you're like, man, I really want to connect to a local fellowship where I live, reach out to us.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to help you make that connection so you can find a body believers and have that table fellowship or have that place to serve.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and again, as always, please click like, subscribe, follow, share, leave a review, all the things that we do on the podcast world.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I mentioned at the beginning, this is kind of the first chapter, if we would, in this stories of hope.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I intentionally ask you guys to be here because part of your story is really walking through the loss of a baby and the heartbreak that followed, and how the Lord has used that through a season of unimaginable grief.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to just give ourselves permission around the table for those uh, you know, uh uh, I guess a warning for the I mean, this could potentially be an emotional thing for us around the table.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It could also be emotional for you as the listeners, uh because maybe you're watching today and you've you've experienced a similar loss or some deep level of suffering.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So our prayer is that this ultimately reminds you that you're not alone in anything, uh, that Christ is near to the brokenhearted, or even this past Sunday, we were walking through Psalm 22, just this idea of we as Christians need to learn better how to lament.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think we always want to pretend like everything's great.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's okay to not be okay.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of want to walk through that.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So uh maybe just let's just start at the beginning.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um tell us a little bit about your family, and then I would just say maybe what you feel comfortable sharing, maybe through the pregnancy story up to the loss.
• 7:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we've walked through some pretty low valleys.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It took us two and a half years to get pregnant with our first.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we walked through that infertility journey with Hallie.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Hallie, our oldest, is 11 years old and in the fifth grade.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Lord used even our infertility journey.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're still walking today with families that are walking through infertility.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we've already seen once that the Lord has used our difficulties that we've walked through.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, He has not let it go to waste.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um with our second, it did not take us long to get pregnant with her.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but she threw us for a loop and came 10 weeks early.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we spent 47 days in the NICU with Harper.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and even then we said, okay, well, Lord, you've used us through infertility.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we know you're gonna use us again with NICU life.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, I mean, it was like three months later, we were walking with another family from our church through NICU Life.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, still, you know, dealing with a brand new baby, but knowing, okay, we've been there, we've done that, you're gonna be okay.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um so in 2019, we had were debating whether we would have one more.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then Justin was in a motorcycle accident that should have killed him.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And after that was like, let's let's go for number three.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, what else do we have to lose?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So 2019 became our hardest year.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we got pregnant right away with Wyatt.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're excited to add a little boy to the mix, not knowing at all what we were gonna do with a boy.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um smooth pregnancy towards the beginning.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then at 17 weeks, basically went into labor.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um thought we had had a miscarriage, got up to the hospital that night, and the doctor sees him, does an ultrasound, he's in there just kicking away.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Which is already a start of a roller coaster of emotions, thinking you're on your way to the hospital, have lost this child, and then you get to the hospital, and then there's that glimmer of hope of, oh my goodness, he's still alive.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna try to, we're gonna try to get through this.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um got through the week, still really couldn't identify exactly what the cause of all of this was.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um they were getting ready to send me home the next day, and just started feeling really uncomfortable.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have the best care in the hospital.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so things probably progressed a little further or faster without actual help.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, quickly realized I'm in full-blown labor.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and knowing at 17 weeks and five days, there's nothing they can do to save him.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you go in there um thinking I was also gonna die during that time.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um God brought in a precious friend that was a nurse, and she came in and was the hands and feet of Jesus in that labor and delivery room um during the scariest moment of our life, um, knowing you're fixing to lose your son, um, but also thinking you're fixing to lose the mom as well.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so he was delivered, and what we were not expecting was for the nurse to tell us he still had a heartbeat.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so for two and a half hours he had a heartbeat.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there were some complications after delivery, which put me in the OR.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I got to hold him, Justin got to hold him.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we were able to spend the afternoon in the hospital room just holding him and spending that time with him.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our parents were able to come up there and see him.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: You came up there and loved us so well.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we just sat in that it hurt.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I remember before we left the hospital um with Harper, we left the hospital.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Left her there.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Left her there, but knowing one day you'd come back home with her.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um instead, we left the hospital with a little white box of his clothes that he wore right after birth.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and walking out and it doesn't look like it what it's supposed to.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I remember we before we left the hospital room with him, we just prayed over him and just said, you know, Lord, we've we've seen you work in our grief before.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen you use our infertility story.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're still using that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen you use our NICU story.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: We know you're gonna use this.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: We don't understand why it's us, but we know you're gonna use it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he has, he has.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was three months later.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: We were walking with another family that had lost their son at 17 weeks and five days.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it was that moment of Lord, I don't know if I'm ready to come along somebody because I'm still feeling like I'm having trouble breathing, but I can breathe.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And three months ago I could I felt like I couldn't.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the Lord was able to use us and has continued to allow us to walk alongside families that are experiencing that grief of losing a child.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that's a good way of putting it too.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not you, you know, the the medical term is miscarriage or whatnot, but it it is the loss of a child.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: That is a new strand of DNA that you've created as a family, and that is a child that God has created.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a that's a good thing for grieving families is to put a name on, put that this is your child, a person that was part of your family.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we may come um come to that in a minute, because I think you guys have done that beautifully as yours your as I'm listening to what I I'm just so grateful for you guys having the courage and the willingness to even sit in like this will be like documented now, like uh for anybody to see, which I I pray is yet another way that the Lord is able to use that story.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I do want to go back to something you shared just a minute ago.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And with this, I want to grant for Pom I may ask some questions, kind of poking into the story, but only share what you're comfortable sharing.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you were just describing in that moment where okay, now we're in a place of um whether or not Wyatt's gonna live, but also whether or not you're gonna live.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are what are your I guess this two-part question, like what are your thoughts in that moment as the mom?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then what were your thoughts in that moment as the dad and the husband?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh kind of explain those emotions a little bit.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, I knew, especially walking through it with Harper, we knew, okay, she was 29 weeks when she was born, and we knew, okay, she's got a real good shot at living, she's gonna make it, um, but she's got to keep growing.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so her body yet is not developed enough to be able to do these things on her own.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But thankfully, we have this medical equipment that's gonna be able to come alongside her and help her, and it did until her body reached that maturity level to be able to do it on her own.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, enough, and even our doctor told us that you know, if he were to be born today, there's nothing we he's not developed enough for us to be able to come alongside him.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you knew going into that delivery room, this is it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's there's nothing they can do.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not their fault, it's not my fault, which is a really I have to be careful of that headspace because my body failed him.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can't sit in that um because it's not that's not fair.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um but to go in there, and I'm I mean, no medication.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I'm in full-blown labor, which feels like not knowing what's happening in communication was not clear for us.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um it thought, okay, I'm fixing to lose my child, but I'm also fixing to not be here on this earth.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he's losing his son, but he's also fixing to lose his wife.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's gotta go home and tell these two little girls, not only did we lose your brother, we lost your mom.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um of course that wasn't the case for me, but is this the moment?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is is is just terrifying of you're asking for help and nobody knows what to do for you.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so very, very traumatic.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was uh traumatic is a good word.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was almost an understated word.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Understated word, yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, because you know, being in the emergency medical field, so you're sitting in this hot in this hotel room, in this delivery room, there's no doctor in there.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a bunch of nurses who look as confused as each other.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting there like, somebody's gotta do something.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I can't lose them both.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm trying to I'm having to start planning.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: All right, all right, what do I do if if that's the case?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like and it's uh I don't know.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't have any idea what to do.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um you never really prepare yourself for the worst case scenarios like this.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um thanks for even just kind of opening it up.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So in the midst of that, it sounds like the Lord was so gracious to give you that time, you know, with him.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: But immediately, like, the grief starts to hit in.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So but you know, you're two different people, man, woman, like how how did grief hit you differently?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm good about when I'm uncomfortable, I like to make jokes.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying I'm gonna make a joke about the situation, but I try to keep the mood lively, keep us laughing because that you know that's just how I how I cope with it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I'm gonna bring this up.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: We remember the Braves were playing the Cardinals in the playoffs, and they got absolutely smoked.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and I was just like, well, at least the Braves are doing good too.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um just trying to keep the mood lively.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um apologize to Wyatt that his only Braves game was a terrible one.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a terrible one.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's I mean, obviously that's the kind of that the start, you know, being in being a paramedic, being on the A month.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of have to have a lighter side of it, because you see you've learned kind of how to compartmentalize some things.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: You see some, you see people on their worst days, some of the darkest stuff all the time.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: So trying to keep the mood lively so it doesn't really affect your mental state from work, but this is different now.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is our personal stuff.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So um it was definitely a sad room to be in, but I wouldn't trade those four hours of getting to stay in that hospital room with him, with you, with our parents, um, some other close friends for anything.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um a mama's heart hurts when your kids are hurting, and then you're sitting there, and a mama's not supposed to hold her dead baby.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm an emotional person anyway, so the tears are flowing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I remember when the nurse got him cleaned up, she said, Do you want to hold him?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And without hesitation, was absolutely that's that's my baby.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't care what he looks like.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so getting to have him in my arms, I know that's a privilege.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of mamas don't get that opportunity when they've lost a baby um to physically hold that baby in your arms.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that was huge for everybody too, because like I mean, both your parents got to hold him.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: My parents both got to hold him.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: So even for for the immediate family, like this tangible child that they're we're losing him, but we did get to meet him and hold him and spend time physical time with him.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: My parents, uh my mom and dad have had two miscarriages, and so um my mom made the comment, she said, your dad just responded with much more emotion than he did with my miscarriages.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad said, you know, I never got to see those babies.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a face to this baby.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so um I'm extremely grateful for that time.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we took pictures of him, and they're not, it's sad that those are the only pictures I have, you know.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've but you have pictures, but I have pictures.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're able, we we have those pictures.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we'll get to telling the girls, you know, talking about that too.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: But he looks like a little alien, but it's the cutest little alien in the whole world.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he looks a lot like Hallie.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so um we know right now for our girls, their little hearts can't handle to see those pictures yet.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've told them when when we feel like they're ready, they're theirs to see because that's That's their brother.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is sweet for us to be able to, you know, say, hey, you know, Hallie's nose, he's got Hallie's nose.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had long legs and fingers and toes.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the grief, I mean, it just it you feel like you're drowning.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess in that moment, you guys were given a gift that a lot of families don't get in that situation.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I in my mind, I'm reacting.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think in some ways that makes it better, and in other ways, that's gotta make it harder.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But grief is a process, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, as you moved forward one week, two months, six months, like what was that?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I guess this is a I'll ask a couple of questions at once.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, how did that grief process affect you?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Were there moments during that that you just felt like you couldn't talk to God or you couldn't pray?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Were there were there thoughts of where it was you were just angry at God through that?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or uh were there any super kind of treasured scriptures or even some psalms that really minister to your heart?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know those are a lot of questions at once, but just kind of talk us through that process because if we're connecting this to lament, now we're kind of forcing ourselves to sit in that a little bit.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so kind of walk us through that lament and that heaviness.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so it was in he was in born in October, so it was right before all the holidays.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we hit got then hit with you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of did really good, I feel like, of just pushing through those.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then January because you're so busy.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're just so busy with stuff to do.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, January is really kind of when it hit, when it got quiet.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're not having family over all the time, we're not going to dinners and all this stuff.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's the okay, now we have to work through this.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do we do that?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've got nothing, the noise is over for a little bit, and now it's just me and you.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do we how do we get through it?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um this is not a pride thing, uh, but I don't think that either one of us ever was angry with God.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's a an emotion we had.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Also, like I never felt like I can't go to I can't go to God uh or pray about this or why obviously we asked the prayers of why this happened, but it was never a questioning of I don't trust you through this.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was um man, you could you continue to trust our family with some hard, hard things.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great perspective.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm hoping that you've used the last two, so clearly you're you have another plan for us to be to use this one as well.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think we've we talk about this all the time.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: The benefits of having each other in the dark moments were all right, man, today is really hard for Justin.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: The Lord eased up on her that day and was like, Catherine's having a real good day, and she can support me.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can kind of balance out the grief.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or hey, the next day, she's having a really hard day, but I'm I'm doing pretty good.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: So like I can lift her up, we can I can take care of things.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a beautiful picture of I don't even know how to explain it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: The a beautiful picture of how we balanced each other out in the in the grief.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because Hallie and Harper are how old at this time?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So 2019, so four and three.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they're still living life and doing all the things and just living the best life of a three and four-year-old in the middle of this.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to keep that up.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even imagine.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is huge.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: That I mean, we we talk about that often of just the Lord's kindness in when one of us was down, yeah, the other was able to come alongside.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know there were those days that you just felt like you couldn't get out of bed, but there were two little girls at home.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you had to keep moving.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was also a gift for us of I couldn't just stay in bed and wallow in sadness.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know the nights were hardest for me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you lay in the bed, and I feel like that's when the enemy likes to do his best work.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is when it's quiet and you feel alone, um, even with somebody laying beside you and you're assuming he's asleep, but really he's struggling, you know, the same way you are.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was where the beauty of the body of Christ came in because there were those nights that I'm just laying there.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Lord, I don't even know what to say to you.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just I hurt.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're catching every tear that I cry.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was, and then that he's near to my broken heart.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not he's kind of near, he is near to my broken heart.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I knew he was there, but there were just those times that I felt like I couldn't, I didn't know what to pray.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was just at a loss for words.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, knowing you, Lord, you know my heart.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also don't have to hide how I feel because you know my heart.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I don't have to put on a happy face to say, oh, this is just wonderful and great.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he knows it's not.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he also hurts with me.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but talking about the church, the church came alongside and loved us so incredibly well.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: So many meals brought to the house.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So many meals.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the beauty of with women's ministry, we had an event the night that he was born.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that event ladies stepped up, took over leadership of that evening, but they spent time in their evening praying over us.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And women that I didn't know very well, but God brought them in our path, women that brought meals, and I'm like, I really don't even know who you are.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: But they had also walked through loss.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: So they knew what that meal was gonna mean.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: They knew what those prayers needed to be.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because of nights being the worst, that was what we asked of people like, could you please, if the Lord wakes you up in the middle of the night, would you pray for us?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they did, and we started sleeping better.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was beautiful to see our brothers and sisters in Christ walking alongside of us.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: They couldn't take the pain away.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I know so many times we want to do more than just pray.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I'll pray for you, but I what else can I do?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I need to do something, and I'm guilty of that as well.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: But we saw firsthand, no, your prayers are carrying us absolutely each day.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: We I truly feel your prayers.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just a beautiful way to see the Lord caring for us and our heart.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think too, uh, when you describe that, I immediately go to uh goodness, I could Google this.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's le it's not hit me right now.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: In in Galatians, uh, carry one another's, I think this is Galatians six, maybe, uh, carry one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have felt that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: As you were talking, I want to kind of rewind just a little bit.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: There were two really, really, I think, helpful things for people to hear.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because in some ways, I I want this to be a story of hope, but I pray we can also identify maybe some practical, okay.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I understand Lament, but how do I do that?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I one thing that you said just a minute ago, uh it reminded me of the importance of just bringing our pain directly to God.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes we feel like we have to edit our emotions, but just the uh giving ourselves permission to be brutally like in the first first person.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel because he already you uh you made that comment, like he already knows this, and he's coming nearer to us, and he's sitting with us in that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's beautiful.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so he sits with us, but then my brain connected to Job, and you know, in the story of Job, he's going through this uh unimaginable lament.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then he's got these friends that come and they just sit with him.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a lot of the book of Job is one chapter is what Job is saying, and then the other chapter is what his friend's saying.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: But the text makes it sound like they sat together without talking for a long time before they ever began to speak.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the connection from that to what you just said, maybe from a tip, is uh lament should invite us into community rather than isolation.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, let it's not an inconvenience if people want to bring you that meal.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let them like because that A, you're letting them do something for you, but at the same time, it's putting yourself in a position to be around other believals, whether that's prayer or proximity, uh, it it's huge.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's something beneficial for I know for me, um I don't like the like the shut door, like don't check on me, just or just pray for me inside or you know, I like to it it does my heart and my mental health good of let me just talk about it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and be brutally honest with all of the details because that is more beneficial to me.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know, uh keeping his memory more alive.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um look, this isn't something that we don't talk about because it's hard.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's talk about it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let me talk about it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can show you that, hey, look, you're gonna you're gonna make it through it, you're gonna be okay.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: But look what the Lord can do through it too, as much as it hurt, look how much positivity can come out of it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think too, okay, let's let's start to go there because that leads us into this healing and hope.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't just sit and lament forever.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so for you guys, kind of how did you start to identify that you were healing?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, or how did you do it?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or like was it was it gradual?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Did it come uh I don't know, just kind of talk through what that healing process, because when you compare where you are now to where you come from, it's a lot easier to talk about it now than it was then because of the healing.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did that healing begin to look like for you guys?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely a gradual thing for sure.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, obviously you're still in shock for a long time.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I loved the song we've by We Are Messengers called Maybe It's Okay, where he talks about like that was good for me of like just it is okay that I'm not okay.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: But we're gonna be okay because God has us.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then one of my favorite verses in the in the Bible is Habakkuk 1.5, where he talks about I'm gonna do something in your days that you wouldn't believe, even if you were told.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I've kept that from bot like from middle school all the way to middle.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I respect that by the way.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not many, not not many people throw out Habakkuk as their favorite verse.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be true.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know I can take it out a little bit of context for what it was actually, but I love it.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: But the if you if you go back to Jesus' God's promises to us, yeah, we never thought that, oh man, I'm gonna have to hold my dead child in my hands.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: But look at all of the positivity that's come out of it, the people we've been able to walk alongside, the close friends, family that we've been able to like, I get it, and I really do.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I can really empathize with you on this.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: And the Lord trusted us with this, he's now trusting you with it.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that is a tremendous sign of healing, is when you begin to look at the season of lament as a gift and that grief as a gift.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's encouraging.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: What what else would you add from that healing process?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that first year was extremely hard.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: You go through all the first, I think like you do with any kind of loss, it was a a loss of we'll never do Christmas with him.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: We'll never um I won't plan a birthday party for him.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so you walk through a lot of those first of okay, this is what our new normal looks like.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like what Justin said is we're coming along families, which you know, that first family that came through, you're like, Lord, this is a little soon.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But to be able to say, I'm still in that raw grief with you, but I'm three months ahead of you.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm three steps ahead of you in this, and you're gonna be okay.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it is gradual.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So as the years have gone on, I mean, we talk about him every single day in our home, which is healing for our hearts because he's not forgotten.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think what hit me the most was um it's not just a ministry for me and Justin.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Our girls are also being used.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we had Harper's kindergarten year.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: So this was three years ago.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a little girl in her class lost her daddy.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so the little girl comes back to school and I sat down with her and I just wanted to give her a hug.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was so just wanted to see her and let her know she was loved and we were praying for her.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I told her, I said, baby, I said, Did you know that Miss Catherine has a baby in heaven?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Because I told her, I said, I'm so glad your daddy knew Jesus.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I said, But did you know that Miss Catherine has a baby in heaven too?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Yeah, why it?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I stopped first and I said, Yes.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: How did you know that?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: She said, Oh, Harper's told me.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Harper's told me about her brother who's with Jesus.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, then later the teacher said, I've got to talk to you.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, the way Harper has been encouraging this little girl with her daddy passing away, God's using her.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just beautiful to see, okay, this isn't between just husband and wife, but our family as a whole.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: God's even using our kids.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And because of keeping his story alive, because of saying, you know, God's still good, even though it didn't feel good, it's still sad that he's not here.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: But we can be you, God can use us.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And God used her little six-year-old self to encourage a friend who was also walking through loss because she's also walked through loss.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so seeing her feel empowered to be able to walk along somebody and encourage another six-year-old little girl through her tragic loss was beautiful for us to just see and celebrate what God is doing in our family.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, on that note, too, uh I would love to just learn because your your actions and testimony there may be encouragement or advice for somebody.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you guys have done an amazing job of you're talking about, you talk about him, you got his name tattooed on your body.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: You when I go over to your house at Christmas, there's signs and evidence of Wyatt and the decor.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, were those things just instinctive decisions for you?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Did somebody come alongside and offer some advice?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, these are some things that we have done, and you've taken that and implemented it or borrowed it?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where did those ideas come from?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Catherine, you're saying they just all came from her?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm gonna go with the decorating stuff, yes, because I I don't get much say on that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love, I mean, there's pictures of my kids all over our home.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have pictures of him up, but we've had some amazing photographers that have come in and been creative with including him in family portraits that he's not in, such as you know, Justin's tattoo.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's in a picture with our family that just represents him.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sweet friends that have come alongside us and given us gifts that have helped to represent him as still a part of our family.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um there are things that I wish we had have done when we still had him in our arms.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um more pictures, maybe some more hand-foot, you know, molds or whatever.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so now when somebody does lose a bit, I'm like, please make sure you get this.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're not gonna think about it right now because I didn't in the moment, but I wish I had, and you're gonna be grateful you did.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um, any way that we can honor him and our family, because I mean, he's included in all the prayers.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he he is still part of our family.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you may have just said this, so this may be repetitive, but um based upon those experiences and your healing journey, what what would you say to someone who's walking through fresh grief today?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: It may be through the loss of a child, it could be some other sort of grief.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: But what have you learned that would transfer to as an encouragement or advice to them?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: You're entitled to your pain.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: But also that pain has a purpose, and I think is the is the best thing that Jesus has a plan for that purpose for that pain.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, if you can continue to remind yourself of that, you won't you won't get swallowed by that grief.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've said numerous times there's purpose in our pain.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's a purpose.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's not letting us walk through this because he's a mean God, that's not who he is.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's sin in the world, there's brokenness, and but he's still good.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I would say he doesn't feel good right now, but he is still good.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And being able to look back and see time and time again where he was there, where he was faithful, and he's currently in this situation with you.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's in your pain, he's in your grief, he's there.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Trust him.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard, it doesn't make the pain lighter, but it will, yeah, it will.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I want to acknowledge and encourage you guys too.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've so admired how you have kind of uh continually remembered White.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's beautiful, and you also have been honest enough, although you are on the backside of that pain.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: You also know, like, hey, I I know when this anniversary is coming up, so if I'm a little off, it's okay.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so that you're that awareness is there for you.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that uh I would imagine for any parent, but especially as a mom, you're never gonna get over.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is not something you get over, you just learn how to carry it better.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I I'm just grateful for y'all trusting us with your story.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else that you can think that you want to add as an encouragement in this moment?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would say if you if you yourself are walking through loss, don't isolate yourself.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your church body wants to come alongside you.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I know it's not always easy, especially for moms, to ask for help, um, but you need the help and you need that community.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say if you were that community and you're walking along somebody who's walking through grief, say their name.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: That means the world, you're not gonna make them, oh, all of a sudden remember and bring up pain.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: They they remember they don't need your comment, isn't going to, oh, they'd forgotten about it till you said something.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um say their name.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Bring that meal, even when they say they don't need that meal.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and pray for them.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Those prayers mean the world.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're not bare minimum, they are the very first thing that we can do for somebody and the most powerful.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have moments where I will wake up in the middle of the night and the Lord will put somebody on my heart.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, it is an honor to be awake in the middle of the night praying for them because there were people going to battle for us with prayers during the middle of the night when we couldn't sleep and our minds were restless.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would encourage you to text that person so they can wake up to a text in the morning of, you know what, I got a good night's sleep because somebody was praying for me through the night.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I think uh those that counsel that you just shared, your story, I think it's encouraging, it's empowering, it's motivating.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it, I think it reminds us too that grief.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And lament.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Those words are not the same, but let's just use them interchangeably.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not the opposite of faith.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I think it is an actionable expression of faith that is not going to let go of God when I'm in the dark place.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: For you guys, that dark place was literally Psalm 23, walking through the valley of the shadow of death.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: For somebody else, it could be some other sense of tragedy or trauma or addiction that strongholds them.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe some of those things will come up in other stories of hope.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is a consistent thing here.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think the the Psalms start to teach us that like sorrow and hope, they can coexist.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think your advice about connecting with other believers is so important because when we're isolated, man, those lies just start to scream more loudly.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or in the dark, in the night, those lies start to scream more loudly.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, man, I think I'm hearing you guys share how the Lord was faithful, how He gifted you this grief, how He strengthened, you know, and the when you're having a bad day, she's having a good day, or vice versa, or how the body of Christ has come along at just the right time, or how the Lord just gives you this one song that I mean connects to you, that you hold on to, that you remember today.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think all those are just reminders of God's faithfulness.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to thank you guys.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want to close uh with these words.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Psalm 42, verse 11.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: It says this why are you cast down, oh my soul?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And why are you at turmoil within me?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hope in God.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: I shall again praise him for my salvation and my God, and he is faithful.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you guys.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you guys for listening to this story.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you've been blessed and encouraged, or maybe even found some hope in the midst of your darkness or of your grief.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Lament is not a bad thing, it is actually healthy and good in an odd way.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Lament, when done right, is worship, uh, in that spirit of Psalm 42 that we just read.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this has just been the first chapter in the stories of hope that we'll walk through in this series on the High Dive podcast.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we hope you will stay connected to our episode or our chapter next week.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, again, like, share, subscribe.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: That way you can be encouraged or other people can hear about it.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and maybe if you're walking through suffering and grief right now, just know that you are not alone.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: God has not abandoned you.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: He is with you, or to use Catherine's word, he is near you.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh join us next time uh on our next episode.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So um until next time, keep diving deep and bye.