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Promotion & Pay: How to Get Paid What You Deserve (Without Feeling Awkward) · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of equipment experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced, and how they've overcome them to find their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Shy away from the real talk.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: No way! Money, struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We cover it all.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this as coffee with your mates mixed with an inspiring TED talk, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, back to the show.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the final session of our Momentum Career Series.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much to everybody that has joined us, that has watched the sessions.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Whether this is your first or sixth session, you are more than welcome.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, please do pop in the comments if you can hear us all okay.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you dialing in from and what other sessions have you attended as well?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or if this is your first one.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: But today I am being joined by the love of lovely Lori McPherson.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just, I think this session just ties up everything we've talked about during the previous sessions, whether that was, you know, CVs, um, career pivots, building confidence.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now we're going to be talking about promotion and pay and how to get what you deserve without feeling awkward.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: The brilliant Laurie is going to be giving us some tips that you can take away in action as well, um, straight away, um, to make sure that you are getting exactly what you want and need from your job.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Laurie, for joining us today.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's brilliant to be here.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the momentum matters classes look like they've been going really well.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen lots of chat online.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's great to be back and delivering this final session.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this one is really, really important.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'd love to, you know, there's no point in doing all that work if you then don't, you know, utilise everything that you've got and everything that you've done to make sure your work works for you.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um I would love to know, Liz.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Can you see comments?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can, yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So please pop in your comments as we go, and it always makes it better.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bit interactive.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got questions, pop them in and we'll make sure we get those covered as well.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Brill.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's get going.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so today we're going to talk a little bit about how to talk about your achievements with confidence, position yourself for opportunities, navigate those pay conversations without the aux.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, stop underselling yourself and advocate for your career.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really important as you go through.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, really quickly, I'll tell you a little bit about me and my background and why I'm here.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I am here because I firmly believe that work should be good for everyone and that people should have flexible, well-paid, purposeful jobs that they really enjoy, and that this is achievable for everyone.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not just for the lucky few.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's really, really important that we keep having these conversations about work, worth, and how we navigate the world of work because it obviously has changed so much over the last few years.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, my background is 10 years in the career space, starting out in employability, and then having my own business for the last seven, um, helping mostly women, mostly at senior level latterly, into new roles through positioning them, through working on their visibility, as well as all the assets like CVs, cover letters, interviews, etc.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and more recently, I'm focusing more on LinkedIn as that vehicle for visibility because I see it as a place of so many opportunities.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it you don't need me to tell you the job market is hard right now, and just applying, I always say you're pulling one of your levers.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: You've got four levers you can use your just applications, you've got um your network, you've got recruiters, and you've also got LinkedIn.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not pulling all four levers, it's going to be much harder right now.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and my message on that is you you don't have to like it, you probably do have to do it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's really how I feel about it now.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not really a case of oh, I feel a little bit about putting myself out there.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: How else are you going to stand out in this market?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it is a great place, a great source of opportunity.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: If it's just that you don't know how to use it, great, but you know, it's just a skill they can learn like any other, and there's plenty of learning out there.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I want everyone to have a job that they really love going to that wakes them up, you know, they wake up feeling excited about the way I feel excited about mine, and I want everyone else to feel the same.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: It has not always been that way.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So after 10 years, I have seen the market go through lots of twists and turns.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, COVID happened in that period as well.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen the real peak and the real high, and I've seen it drop and dip a little bit again.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what you need to do to succeed in each market is different as well, and I'll always talk into what's working now.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone can see, and we can if not, we could certainly um I can certainly chip in or Liz can chip in with what we see commonly.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd love to know what's stopping you for asking for more just now.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: What stops you from asking for more initially?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Has any thoughts on that?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, anybody please pop, yeah, pop in the comments.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's your experience, Lori, of why people don't ask for more?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's really, really complex, isn't it?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're taught from birth as women that we um are in service to others, you know, that we have to be um our value is is bound up in how much we can help people and how much we can serve people.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not bound up in monetary value.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're taught that people who have money and who want money are bad.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Ambition is a bad thing.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's we don't have brilliant role models for it, and therefore we don't want to be like them.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I heard some chat the other day and I joined in on it um about you know someone who's become a trillionaire.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: We see wealthy with we equate it with bad people quite often when actually we know that when particularly women have money, they can do good things with it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to say right now, I have a massive beam of bonnet about that expectation that we must do good things with it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: If we just want to buy more shoes, that's okay too.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, absolutely, you know, I show this little memes saying women must do that.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as a very generous person, sometimes you just want to buy more handbags and shoes, and that's okay too.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: But seriously, it's really important to get more money in the hands of good people because that we know that they gen generally will do good stuff with it.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a couple of comments here, set pay bands.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, obviously, you know, that there is there is those areas of the market where there isn't any flex.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I would just remind you that you you don't have to stay there.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are there are other ways to earn a living and there are other things you can do.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if if the bands are just locked, you know, that's not the end.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a case of right, okay, am I prepared to work in this in this way and in these conditions, or am I gonna take myself out?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you do have a choice, you know, uh no clear visibility, a progression route.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Greatly so we can come on to that um and feel grateful for having a job.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't want to ask.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really common, especially right now when the market is tough.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what if they turn around and say, Well, if you don't like it, off you go.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um can happen.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's valid.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it happens much less than you think.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'll talk about this today.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's much more about how you ask, isn't it?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and how you set that up.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So here's an interesting quote for you, which I hope you like as much as I do.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Samantha Harmon, who is a style editor.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I like her.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's a good one to follow, isn't she?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: On LinkedIn.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, she's fabulous.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she talks a lot about um style and women and identity and lots of good stuff around that and how clothes are not just frivolous fashion.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're a real part of the conversation because we're not walking around naked, so whether you like it or not, you're part of the style conversation.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if they can't see you, they can't pay you.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: They also can't hire you, and they certainly can't increase your pay if they can't see a reason to do that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really worth bearing that in mind.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, a few things to have a think about in preparation for having a pay conversation.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and I want you to think about, you know, the reasons it feels awkward is because we don't have these role models, is because we're taught not to look for more, we're taught to be grateful for what we have.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: We hear things like who do they think they are, um it's okay for them.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: All these things are designed to other asking for money, and we're designed to think that's not that's not for the likes of us.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this is much louder and much more prevalent if you are from a family where people traditionally didn't earn a lot of money.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm from that situation.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: My parents didn't earn a lot of money, I out earn my parents.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's really common in our generation that we do, so there can be really, really, really obvious, you know, resistance to saying I want more because who are you to think that?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to to notice that when it comes up.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Notice when you say it, I notice when I say it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my mum's famous one um is oh, you know, I when she sees strictly come dancing on, she'll say, Oh, I'm not saying Shirley aren't going to be washing a lot of dishes, are they, with those nails?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that for me, I was always like, Great, who wants to wash dishes?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be on prime time Saturday night television looking fabulous and getting danced around the dance floor.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there is that thing about women should just be cracking on with their chores and drudgery and not asking for more.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that can feel our resistance can be internalized, our resistance can be very loud, and the people around us might have resistance to it as well.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you what I would say is watch who you discuss this with.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you go to someone who doesn't earn anything like as much as you do, and say, I'm not earning enough, or I'm I'm not being, you know, watch who you take this to, is all I would say.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because people can be quite, you know, vicious.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you think you are?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, we should you hear a lot about you should be content with what you've got.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I used to get a lot of that.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was in a frugal community for years because I was skin.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you get a lot of you should be content just to sit in.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you should be content with basically the life that you've got.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, actually, I I want more, and there is nothing wrong with that, but watch, watch who's around you, who normalizes not wanting more.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really interesting, isn't it?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Liz, people always say, like, look, look at make sure people are supportive when you you know you're needing help.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, look at who's celebrating when you're doing well, too.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they do say you're like the sum, aren't you, of your circle, six people.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and you know, if they're all quite happy, and I've heard this a lot in business owner communities, you know, I don't have I've said to people, you're doing really well.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: What are you coming for?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to get out of this?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they've said, I've got no one ambitious around me, I've got no one else, everyone else just wants to do their job, go to the pub, start again.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I want more, and I don't have anyone to share that with, so that's why I'm coming to this community.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So look at do you have people you can tell this to?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, it's a good opportunity to think, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I probably need to start to think about how I can find them because you need them to cheer you on as you go into the the next bit.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So some really practical stuff.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you see this in full screen or is it disappearing for you too?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's all right because it's just very important for me.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, let us know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Can everyone else see it?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the slides.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I've done something horrible in row three, but that's all right.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's right.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so getting on to the practical stuff before you go into a conversation.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you decide, right, you know, I'm not um being paid at my level, I I'm worth more, the benchmark is more.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, do some research on that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's broad and wide online, but you can have a look at things like Glassdoor, sometimes LinkedIn's salaries, have a bit of a feel for what the salaries actually are out in the world before you go in, as this is part of your preparation and part of your evidence.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the second thing I want to sort of say, and that is we feel awkward as women saying, I've done this and I've done that, and it feels like we're bragging and nobody wants to be that person.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And every single person I've ever met, Liz, and you'll be the same, has said to me on a call, talking about working with me, I just don't like selling myself.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get away from the idea that there are two types of folk those who do and those who don't.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody really likes selling themselves.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: What I would say is those who do it have just realized that there are opportunities that are so great when you do it, it's bigger and more important than not doing it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, Liz, you've talked a lot about you know, going when you branched out and looked at other opportunities, you did you you had resistance, but actually the rewards are so great that you have to just at some point decide to go for it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it is it is a decision, it's not about readiness, it's not about um I'll do this when I'm more confident.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's not it's not coming, it's not a thing that you can't wait for that to happen.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is about deciding, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: With with evidence, I'm deciding at you know I need to be earning more and I'm ready for the next level, and then go and get your evidence.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what I want you to know is that nobody out there is thinking this stuff is easy, and when we sit there and say it's okay for her, or if only I was a bit more we're other than them, and we're we're we're get we're letting ourselves off the hook a little bit.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: When actually it's it's like right, decision time, I've decided this is the thing, I'm now gonna gather my evidence and I'm gonna present it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: It takes the emotion out of it because they're not judging you, they're judging everything that you've put in front of them.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you can sort of think, right, here's a decision I've made, and I'm gonna go for that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if the answer is no, you need to know what your fallback is as well, and we'll come on to that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to remember that your achievements are facts, yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're not so if you think, oh, I can't possibly say that I led that team from this to this, or I increased that from this to this, or I streamlined this opportunity, or anybody would have done it, or I'm just doing my job.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Your achievements are something you can claim because they're true.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's no gray area here.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you did it, you can say you did it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, look at the people who do claim credit, yuck, but everybody knows, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, but you can claim your own achievements.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Have a think about what measurable difference your work has made.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And a really, really good way to think about this is what did my work make happen?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: What happened as a result of what I did?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're writing about it, phrases like which led to, which meant that, which allowed, which enabled are really helpful.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And think about it in tangible terms.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: People right now, particularly, are paying for knowing that you can come in and do again for them what you've already done for someone else.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So increased, reduced.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about money and productivity, streamlining processes, reduce the need for that spend, increase this revenue, generated.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: These are the things they want.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I always write them on a CV as a sexy action word first, so generated, um, streamlined, mobilized, then a number, and then the how.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: We want to give them the how first.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's all the things that I did.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Flip that and give them the the number first so that if I'm quickly reading your CV, and remember your CV may or may not be being read by a human, there may be AI assistants because of the sheer volume of applicants.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: They need to see quickly, this is what this person has already done.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So claim them as fact.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: If they are true, then they're facts.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: We can't say, Oh, I can't talk about that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fact, there's no subjectivity, and again, it helps us to take the emotion out of it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did this.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Number two is an interesting one, asking for opportunities and being prepared for no's.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I add be prepared for no's because the more you ask, the more you'll be given no's.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a statistical possibility, you know.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: The more times you say, Can I do this?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's been okay with the no's because they'll lead to yeses.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard of people, um, I I followed one called Liz Mosley, a brand designer, who talks about the rejection, yeah, the hundred rejection challenge.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what she said is right this year, I'm going all out, I'm going to get my hundred rejections, and I'm going to put a sticker or a tick in my box every time someone says no.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So she goes out and she says, Can I guest on your podcast?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: and can I do this and can I speak on your stage?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just random fire, it's dull-targeted and tailored, and she has the credibility and the authority to do it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But she asks for loads of things.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone says no, it yes, it's a it's a sticker, it's because I'm getting my sticker towards.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've done that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've really gamifies it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've done let go for notes, but I haven't got a stick.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I but I love a sticker chart.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do that in future.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if she still does it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: She certainly did it a few years ago when she made the stickers and you you applied to and she sent you the stickers.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm doing it unofficially this year.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just applying for loads again, not scatter gone.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: When I see opportunities, I'm going, oh, right, I'm gonna and I I ask, and I'll send a target message.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you'll be really surprised at some of the amazing people that have said yes, like yes, you can come and you know.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I asked, can I come and speak in your group?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can I do things like this?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, of course you can.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and again, you do it with the authority you already have, you know, what what opportunities exist out there?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Who is speaking on stages?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: What conferences and events are happening in your area?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why wouldn't they have to pick someone, they have to have someone on the stage, why wouldn't it be you?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about doing some research, asking for these opportunities, and if it's within your organization, it's having a look at what what the next level needs you to have or do, and asking for opportunities to fill it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it's about rooms being in the rooms where it happens, usually it's about the meetings you're allowed to attend, the reports you're allowed to see.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Starting to ask for those early as part of your plan.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a case of, you know, as part of my career development, I'd like to this.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: They can only say no.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if they continually say no, then you know that there's no progression there, and that's fine, and then you can make a decision.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't ask, you're not really being fair to the employer in terms of, well, did you I say this all the time?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ask your employer?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, you know, they what there's no progression.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Have you asked?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Have you specifically said, can I be in this meeting?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can I see this report?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Can I attend this?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't ask, you don't give them an opportunity.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you ask and they say no, it's a different conversation, but do think about the opportunities.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: What are the gaps that you've got right now?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what will fill those?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: How can they help you to fill them?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go in with the assumption that they want to help you, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know they don't always, but let's go in with the assumption that your employer really wants to help you.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm just going to flip down because I can't see all of the full slide in front of me.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just there we go.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ask ask that employer, what could I do?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: What else could I be doing?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And do your own research as well.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always going to them, you know, asking for their suggestions.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Use LinkedIn as a brilliant, nosy research tool.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what else is happening?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: What else are people talking about?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: What we could be doing this.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've had an idea.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is where you want to be.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And apologies for my um don't know what an in the record packed is.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: The three, I have obviously um clicked the wrong Canva button there when I was downloading.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, keep a record of impact and achievements.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to need it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Two things that everyone needs as they go through their career is a network and a record.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so keep a record of your impact.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a case of oh, any email saying thank you so much for that, any comment saying, Oh, well done in that, anything you get says, you know, that was really helpful, that was really um pivotal and this project being successful.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Keep it, put it in a brag folder or a I call it my I am hot folder, like I keep them somewhere, but also things like on a Friday, take five minutes and say what have we achieved this week?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right, we're one step closer to this, so that you always have a record of your achievements.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: You won't remember after, you know, I'm saying to people, right, tell me about that when it was 15 years ago, no chance.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do it with the one you're in now.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: What are you impacting on right now?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what can you claim as part of claiming your achievements as facts, you know, and whether that is you know, that you're set forward to complete on this project on time, whether that is something a people achievement, whether you've noticed an improvement in someone's performance or You know, uh engagement of the staff, keep notes of things as you go because you're going to need them, and then number four, avoid procrastinating.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably gonna trademark that word because I love it so much.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so women tend to do this, okay?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I get asked all say, What courses should I do?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go, yeah, I want to do a course, I'm gonna go do a course.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's filling a hole in your soul often.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's often I'm I'm not enough, so I'll go and learn one more thing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to usually, unless you're you know doing a specific course with a specific outcome, like doctor or lawyer.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't operate on people without proper courses.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: But most people in roles they don't need a piece of paper, they need you to have the experience.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is the gap?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Go and not don't find one role.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going for a next step up, find five job descriptions that are that role and see what they commonly ask for.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you need something, go and get it.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And whether that first best place is to ask your boss and give them a reason why it would benefit them.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: You could also say, I'd love to have this training, I understand there's a cost, I'd be happy to sign up to a training agreement.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where if I leave within X amount of time after it, you know, I'll pay it back.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really common.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if there's no training budget, there's no progression, you have your answer, but have you asked?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of employers will quite happily say, ah, yeah that's fine, as long as you can tell them why it's useful for them in terms of the time of the training, and then you can leave there with the course under your belt, but don't procrastinate for the sake of I'm upskilling.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do the people who are hiring you next actually need you to have that skill or not?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Continuous learning is great, but sometimes it stops us doing the actual work.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I'd say a lot of adverts ask for things that actually don't need everything either.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Probably only really in the past.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's a specific tool, like Leslie, you'll know, like if it's like, you know, uh knowledge, experience always a different thing, but if they ask for knowledge over understanding of, you know, CRM assistance, for example, you can get that in an afternoon.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Go on to Hubspot, other CRMs that are available, log in, go into their academy, do some courses, you have an understanding of what it is and what it does.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you need to have a six-year-long college qualification?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Usually not.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually about application, isn't it?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then on to the actual negotiation itself.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Money is an emotive topic, especially if you are not used to earning a lot, you're from a family that doesn't earn a lot.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's something people, you know, lots of people are very private about money.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: We can't talk about that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: It has become a really emotive topic and it becomes awkward.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: People don't tend to share.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: People will share much more easily and much more divisive things.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say that, but I don't want people to talk about sex more than they talk about money or politics or things that are really divisive, and I think, oh god, but money is a real, you know, really emotive one.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So be prepared to feel awkward.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You don't, and this whole imposter syndrome, you don't need to go and get tablets for it, or you don't need to, you know, be medicated.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to know this is gonna feel awkward.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna deal with that.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm gonna, it's stretchy because it's new, it's stretchy because it's different, it's stretchy because it's difficult.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would feel, I always liken it to I can't drive.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: If someone gave me keys today and said, off you pop in the motorway, I should feel nervous.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not something I need to overly trip up.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's natural, it's normal, it's our brain's way of keeping us safe.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we shouldn't, you know, we often think right, I'll just retreat because it's aucs.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'll prepare for the awkwardness and I'll move through it because that will help me on the other side.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of preparing for the conversation, you have to know your number.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And be prepared to ask for it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, whether that is, you know, um an amount, whether it's that you'd like increased, you know, team members' responsibility, whether it is that promotion, it's time for me to be considered for this.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to do for this?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Be prepared, practice saying it out loud.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds weird, but genuinely for some people, they as soon as they go to say right, I'm so looking for£70,000, they immediately go into this, don't they, Liz?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, if you can't do that, you know, I'll take whatever else you want to give me or all.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So being really clear on the amount.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's an and also if it's a no, it's knowing what you would, you know.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if that's not possible, how about and it's asking what else you can do.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking outside of the box, I always love an extra holiday.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to, you know, a couple of what about a couple of extra days paid holiday.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: They can usually swing to that if they can.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Say it, practice it.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the really important bit learn to love the silence.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there comes a point when you'll want to fill the silence when you've asked.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is the golden rule that all the top negotiators talk about, the first, you know, all the sort of thorough marketers that talk about the first one to cave loses.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: But that is true, not in that awful way.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's putting in a silence.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll give you a really good example.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: A good friend of mine, um, I coached him on this a few years ago, and he said in the conversation, and again, he he took the you know, he was going to just have a quick and rush conversation in the office.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, uh-uh, make sure it's scheduled in the diary, it's really important.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: They know it's important to you, they know it's about that, and they know what they're what they're getting.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, over the last, you know, however long, my direct reports have increased from seven to 21.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Stop talking.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened was, oh, they went, oh god, you know, I knew it had been a lot, really that many?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Goodness, I don't they don't know the minutiae of, you know, my area has increased from this to that, my revenue, my budget's been decreased from this to that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh yeah, I knew it had been a lot, but it's letting them have that minute in the silence to really take that in.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then he put in his next point, his area had increased, everything had now.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: He came out of that conversation with an extra 10,000 pounds in his pocket and an extra him to half his massive workload.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was the that was the rule, who he was able to recruit.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely brilliant results because we prepared for it.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: We prepared that each sentence lands on its own.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what I'm here's what I've done, here's what I'm looking for, here's the extra value that I've brought, and now here's what I would like in return.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: You need to learn to love the silence when you land it because it is, you know, it is awkward, and you will want to say, you know, but I know I'm really lucky to have a job, or you know, and these things are just so they minimize it.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, take in your evidence.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So your evidence is what you've done.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, here's my job description, here's everything I've done over and above that, here's all the things that I've brought, here's all the value about it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is never, by the way, like my mortgage has gone up, or you know, child care is more.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's not their their role, basically.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: You need to prove what you've added in value and why you are now ready for the next step, the next level, the promotion, the pay rise.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Give them your evidence and learn to love the silence.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this is my favorite, another one could be doing the trademark.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: If they say, Oh, well, now's not a good time, but we'll talk about it in you know 10 years' time.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I call it the this time next year, Rodney.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when they say, Oh, yes, come back in a year.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, when some um, you know, when someone retires or dies, you can have the job.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's not good enough.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to tie them to a time and send them an email afterwards.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll be reviewing this.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I'm a dog with a bone.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be saying before that time, looking forward to a review as discussed at, you know, here I've prepared my evidence.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, God, as goes about a deal with us.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't let them kick the can down the road indefinitely.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And no response and no answer is a response, like they're not gonna do it for reasons.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can either investigate what those reasons are or you can look outside.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Both are fine.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, don't let them just continually kick that can down the road and get that all in writing about when it's going to be reviewed and what the clear measures are that they need to see.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Employers will try and fob you off with, you know, when you're a bit more confident.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, what you want to say what would good look like.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: So is that like speaking up more in meetings?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is that attending conferences?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what is it you need to see from me in order to make this a reality?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Over what time scale?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have to go away and do your part of that as well.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't do it, that's on you.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if they don't give you the opportunity, that's always on them.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, have a think about these actions.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want and need?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do you, what's your your your increase or the thing that you want to ask for?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's your evidence that you um are not our worth, your worth anyway, and that you have this value to the company?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: What have you added or brought?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is your evidence and your impact with tangible results and numbers wherever humanly possible?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Be prepared for objections and you always want to work towards win-win.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's in it for them as well?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, looking at the benchmarking across the piece, um, I can see that this role, so if we did this, this would allow, and it's telling them how it's going to help them.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone wants to know what they're going to get right now.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone wants to know how it's going to benefit them.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: The market is so tricky, it's even trickier, dare I say it, to be an employer.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: So have a think about win-win.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just about keeping it, they'll keep an amazing, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I it would mean that I can grow into this, I can do it, and I can, you know, you can retain my skills and knowledge and such and such.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is expensive, isn't it, to recruit?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's horrendously expensive to recruit and it's risky, and it's day one rights come in.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: They will want to keep you.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, day one rights come in.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is it January?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: They can backdate basically for six months to now like you'd have to have hearings.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not employment lawyer clearly, but have a look.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is something coming in in January that basically takes up to like now.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they don't want to go through the whole rigmarole, especially you're getting 740 AI-generated CVs when you put an advocate out right now.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: No one wants that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yuck.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: So they want to keep you um with all the skills and talent and knowledge you already have, usually.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a case of making a really, really clear case, presenting your evidence and having a walk away point and be prepared to negotiate and come back with those objections which don't last forever.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: There is a clear um end point there before you go into the conversation.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Have a think about what their objections might be.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the times when it's a good um opportunity to catastrophise, and you know, you know, when you do that in your own brain, oh, but if I say that, they say this, if it's an actually good time to do that, who's gonna say no?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's finance, you know, usually.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but here's what I can say to them in return.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good idea to do those, if this, if that, you know, a bit of an infographic for yourself, who's likely to have which objection, and how can I answer those?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are their objections likely to be?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you can use AI to brainstorm on this, you know, so it's quite useful for things like that.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just finally, if you want to connect with me, I am on LinkedIn as Laurie Macerson.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh good.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: What about people that um if anyone else has got any questions, please pop them in the comments?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we've obviously talked about getting this promotion and pay rise as if you were working somewhere, but I know a lot of people will be just job searching, so they might they won't have a track record internally.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Does that sort of advise hold?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: What advice differs?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you still have to have a good idea, like underselling yourself.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing a lot of people doing this right now, Liz and U will be too just applying for anything to get a job in this market, and it and that's not usually landing either, because the employer can see that you're they can't understand the story of why you're here, so they kind of just go, don't really understand that.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would as much as possible look at jobs that are at your level, but giving them a clear story and giving them clear value.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: What most folk aren't doing is telling them, here's what you'll get from hiring me, and and this should be really clear, not vague, you know.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a nice person, I've got lots of skills.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not that, but I've already done this thing that you're asking me to do before at this organisation, and really crucially, here are the results.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: They need to see results and impact right now, or they simply won't hire you because they'll get someone who does show them it, and this is not about your personality, it's not usually about anything else, other than we need someone who can fill this gap, and I'm going to hire someone who, to the best of my knowledge, I think will fill the plug this hole, fill this gap.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you need to share your impact and results.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Usually, applying for anything doesn't work because they can see that it's a bit of a flag, plus there are other folk who better fit those more entry-level roles, believe it or not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they'll normally go with them.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, I would lean into talking about your impacts in your sector, position yourself, use LinkedIn to position yourself to network with people to get out to places and get get confident, being uncomfortable, get confident, saying, I did this.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly what we did across it, such and such.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it had such a difference.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what what we did having those conversations, and and getting over the you know, the horrors about saying that.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's because it remembering it's fact, it's true.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, great question about salaries not listed.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there can be a huge difference with salaries.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would always personally ask the salary, I would ask the recruiter, ask the person, and I would say it in a way again that's um make it make it feel win-win so that I don't waste any of your precious time.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you're really busy right now, so that I don't waste any of your precious time.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Can I ask a salary, even a range or a banding?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: They may not be able to tell you the salary as you obviously know us.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they say don't tell them the salary, and they can't, you know, booty.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that they do.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I often find even if they advertise or as competitive, um, if a candidate asks the salary and we ask the client, the client will say they just don't want it advertised publicly.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you can ask I would ask.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Just say, so and make it clear that just to avoid, you know, that time wasting about every wasting everyone's time.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to waste your precious time.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: What would the salary?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Even a banding would be would be really useful.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and even then telling them, you know, I'm looking for a round, and again, a banding is useful as well.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that it's I've seen ones where I've been able to read the job description and going, yeah, they want someone very junior, but the person's been not too convinced and has been ended up being like a 20 grand mismatch, and it's just not, you know, between 40 and 20, that's massive.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: You you can't take it at other points.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's not such a big deal.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there is also the conversation of is it salary or that you need, and by the way, you can have it all, but you know, what is more important to you at this season of your life?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Would you take a hit to and I've helps clients with this, you know, I'm going to take a hit to get a four-day week or to get two days in the office, or to get experience in this niche bit of the sector that I'd actually much rather work in longer term.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: It depends, but not if if you can't take a hit, you can't take a hit, you know.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh great question.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: There can often be really big differences.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think they've changed the law in the EU.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they have where they have to share the salaries.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I know there are certain states in the US.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it will hopefully come to us.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is coming.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um the EU, yes.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Believe it or not, um, Boris Johnson was someone who was championing um state share the salary, state the salary.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's coming, but it's not in yet.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the EU pay transparency directive.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's just it's just a total waste of time and energy for everybody, you know.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I can't see good reason.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I understand that you might want to keep certain people or certain people might have historical things, but it's all bound up in this whole secrecy about money thing, really, isn't it?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Which actually we're able to be a little bit more open about it.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's that the employers that are not, I mean, obviously, there's some big employers that just have it as a blanket thing, but I think a lot of employers, it's probably because they're underpaying somebody in their existing team.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna obviously open up some awkward conversations, but then more luck.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, which you know again, that's on there.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they should really not be doing that when they bring in someone.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And quite often, I need to also say this on the subject, lots of the time you have to leave to get more money or make savings, or or come to them with another offer, you know.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had I don't like it, it's messy, and it ends up you often leave the company anyway because trust's a little bit gone.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like it, I don't love it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if employers would pay, you know, anyway, but often people have to leave or or say great news, I've just got a new job, and they'll offer me X amount of more, and the first company will counteroffer.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, usually, but you often have to sort of have that offer on the table for them to do that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: As I say, it's a bit gameplay, it's not really how I like to operate, but um usually you don't get rewarded for sitting quietly in the one seat for years and years and years.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Usually usually you know, usually moving every three to five years is good for your your pay.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um get a better jump and salary.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: You do, and I think usually, to be honest, good for lots of things, but you know, if you like where you are, um it's how you can maximize and make the most of that.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where you are.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: But also, you you know, you do have to ask.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're highly unlikely to come and tap you on the shoulder.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, sometimes you might get annual pay reviews, but you're still probably looking at 34% increase, not a massive increase.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this all is an info, yeah.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not brilliant.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is it all these all this info still stands if this is uh if this is an appraisal review, you still need your own evidence of what you've done and achieved so that you can get the highest grade and so that you can ask for the next jump in money.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it again, I think this is where folks sometimes this is on you to go to the employer with all the evidence.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: If they then don't deal with it in the right way, that's on them.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: You have to go with all the evidence, you can't expect them to remember things as your career, and you do have to steer this a little bit um and and have it all ready to give them um so that you can be in line for it and you have to ask the rocket.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if anyone's seen the new um Devil Wears Prada.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I have oh it's so lovely.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when I was watching it, my friend was like, Oh my god, so much content for you here.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Stanley um her assistant doesn't put himself forward to speak, and it's like it was a bit awkward, but when she's like, Oh, is he ready?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like he hasn't asked, you know.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Also, you haven't you haven't allowed, so there is a bit of probably you're gonna have to ask, probably not waiting to be to be asked.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: It did make me think at the time.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's partly on him, obviously, it's partly on her as well, not because it suits her to have in a certain place, you know.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Any other questions, folks?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Any other questions?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that is a good film, good film about careers.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's good.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it, and that's really good HR stuff.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got an HR um employment lawyer, um, pal, a client, and I got straight onto her.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and my PR client said, Oh, great content in that one for you, for you both.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Very good content, yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, any other questions, so please do pop them in the comments.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um Lori, remind people how they can connect with you again and where they can find out a bit more about the work you do and how can you support people?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so mostly I'm on LinkedIn um as Laurie McPherson.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also on Instagram where I have just joined the Yap Challenge Liz.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm yapping um with Jesse J and all the people over there.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a 40-day challenge to do it.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll talk to Camera every day.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Loving it so far.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she has made six million in two launches and sort of revolutionized the launch world.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, everyone's talking about it, it's really good.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what I do really to help clients is help them to position themselves, put them at the right place to be seen as you know, a person to pay more in their sector.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And usually we do this using LinkedIn.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a LinkedIn visibility strategist.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I help business owners and also career pros to put themselves in the line of fire for opportunities, um, because that's LinkedIn is where they all happen.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much to everybody that has joined today, um, has joined other um sessions in our series as well.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Really do appreciate you all giving up your lunchtime today.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but thank you so much, Lori, as well, for joining us and giving us your expertise.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Really do appreciate that.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.