Latest / Between the Headlines: Columbus / Should Councilmen Host Bingo at the Trotter? Plus, Mario Zorovic's 9/11 Story

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Should Councilmen Host Bingo at the Trotter? Plus, Mario Zorovic's 9/11 Story · Between the Headlines: Columbus

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not asking you to hide anything.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Don't put it out there.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Let the people see it.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've never not worked in a hospital working department.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Zach, that's a hard question.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: I have no answer for it.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: From the opinion page of the commercial dispatch.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is between the headlines.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, here we are, 25 years removed from 9-11, and we have an unbelievable guest today, Mr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: Mario Zorvik, also Mr.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: Mark Smith.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_04: You don't want to miss that interview.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_04: If you've got a kids who just weren't there 25 years ago, this is a must listen.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: And also we'll talk about the Trotter.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: There's some odd little things that the City of Columbus was talking about related to free usage of that facility.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: And uh update on college sports as far as junior college, anyway.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Zach's over there smiling.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: Can't wait to talk about these things today, but first.
• 1:09
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• 1:13
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• 1:28
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• 1:30
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• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi.
• 1:39
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• 1:44
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• 1:53
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• 2:02
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• 2:08
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• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to another episode of Between the Headlines.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: My name's Dave Chisholm.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: Across the table from me is Mr.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: Zach Plair.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: Good to be with you today.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: Good to see you, David.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: Hope you enjoyed your vacation.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: I did, I did.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yes, oh yes, it is good to be back, and it's um it's good to be in here and talk about these things.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: I've got this this first item here.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's a weird thing to talk about.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: It seems like we always come back to the free use of facilities and the regulations related there too.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_04: So the story is that at the last council meeting there was uh a couple of items that were brought up, a couple of events, three events.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: One was a Thanksgiving luncheon, uh, one was bingo of all things.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: I forget what the third one was.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_07: Well, no, it were two bingo events.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_07: Two bingos.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_07: Um uh co-sponsored by uh Councilwoman Levon Harris and the Parks Department.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_07: Uh and then there was uh a co-sponsored Roderick Smith and the Parks Department, Thanksgiving luncheon planned for uh the Trotter.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_07: And these are being presented as city events with a municipal purpose that would qualify for just the city using its own facility uh at no cost.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um so that they were brought up basically to waive the fee.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_07: Um to declare them city events, waive the fee, let them have the thing.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_07: This is a very interesting subject because and it's uh interesting from several different directions because uh well let's just talk about what happened yesterday, or I'm sorry, what happened Wednesday at the work session when these two things came up.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_07: So the bingo event comes up first.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_07: And here's Greg Lewis, the parks and recreation director, fresh off of running his city vehicle into the Rosenzweig Arts Center.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_07: That was him.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_07: That was him.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_07: Bill Strauss posted that.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_07: You're a kidding.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_07: He probably got it on his camera.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my god.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I saw the video.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_07: I I just oh my lord.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_07: So so there he is on his uh on Greg Lewis's very good no bad or sorry, very bad no good day.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_07: So here's Greg Lewis trying to present this bingo event that uh is for community information and bingo.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_07: So to hear him explaining and to hear uh Councilwoman Harris explain it, a hundred people from the community just they show up, they get information from the councilwoman, they get information from various department heads, and they play bingo to boot because you know it gets the senior citizens out of the house and whatnot.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: All right, hang on.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: First off, why can't they get their information from the paper?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I mean, I don't have a listen.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: All right, I don't have a problem with the those informational meetings that the I don't either, but they're mixing it with bingo, and that's where it gets weird.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: Go ahead.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_07: So they're they're they're talking about all of this, and then the next one comes up and it's this Thanksgiving luncheon.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_07: Well, here comes off the top rope the vice mayor and ward one councilwoman Ethel Stewart, who starts pushing back on this, and she's pushing back on this in a very valid way.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_07: She says, Well, why didn't you pay the fee?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_07: Because aren't we supposed to be charging for the trotter, right?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_07: We're supposed to be charging for the trotter and the regal.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_07: And then, you know, Councilwoman Harris and uh Mr.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_07: Lewis continue to say, Well, it's a community event, it's free, we're giving out information, we've got department heads coming in, giving uh uh presenting on what they do at the fire department, what they do here, there, and everywhere.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_07: And uh Miss Stewart keeps saying, Well, don't we have community centers for that?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_07: That's what a community center is for.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_07: And uh I tend to agree with her, but uh but but with a caveat.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_07: And then Rusty jumps in, Rusty Green, who to his credit has really been the only one who has consistently jumped in on this issue over the years.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_07: Um, don't we have a policy that if we use the trotter or the regal, then you pay the freight.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_07: And why are we not consistently applying that policy?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_07: Well, the policy as it stands is you have to pay for the trotter unless it's a city event with a municipal purpose.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_07: And we're not letting private people come in and waiv the fee and whatnot, but if it's a city event with a municipal purpose, then the department that is trying to present the event, which in this case would be the parks department, they fill out the they fill out this form, they bring it to the council, and the council approves it case by case.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_07: So uh it's funny to me.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_07: I'm glad that we have discovered our policies.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_07: I'm glad that we're not I'm glad that we're now trying to enforce the policies.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_07: Yes, or that the council is trying to enforce the policies.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_07: But it but it bears noting that this is the that these two events, these bingo events, would be the third and fourth that Lavon has done.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my goodness.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_07: Um also when uh so so now then you've got Stephen Jones, the mayor, who's popping in and saying, look, y'all have the right to make exceptions as a counsel.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_07: Y'all all and just because you have the power to do something doesn't mean you should.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_07: But that's not what he said.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_07: He said, Y'all have the power, y'all have the right to make exceptions.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_07: You also can change the policy if you want to as you wish.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_07: Lord have mercy.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_07: And time to find out they had made a bunch of exceptions already because Rogina Bonner, who runs the Trotter, uh gets up there and says, Well, if y'all change the policy, please wait till the first of the year, because we've got a bunch of events running through December that y'all have already made exceptions for, and they didn't have a problem with it then.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_07: So I find the timing interesting on why they barked about it yesterday, but I'm glad that they finally did.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_07: And um, you know, and Miss Harris says, well, you know, when when was this when was this policy when was this policy made?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_07: Well, the policy was made by the last council.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_07: Well, how was I supposed to know about that?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_07: Well well, you are.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_07: You're supposed to know about that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_07: And more to the point, if you didn't know about it, Ms.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_07: Bonner was supposed to tell you when you came up there to do that.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_07: Um so I mean, there's a lot to unpack here.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, there is a lot of and the first one being why can't we get a policy that is consistently applied with consistent definitions?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_07: Yes, and and people don't forget uh forget about it because a year or two ago, somebody else was trying to get the trotter for a cut rate.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_07: I think it was a Master Gardener's, we're trying to get a uh the Trotter for a cut rate, and Rusty, God love him, don't we have a policy against that?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_07: And Jeff Turnage didn't remember at the time, and nobody else did either.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_07: So how often is this happening?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_07: Why is this still happening?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_07: And why is the Trotter such a hotbed for let's use this for free?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_07: Well, when you do have community centers.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: Zach, it it's not the only hotbed.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, look let me unpack it from this angle.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, the city council, one of their jobs is to simplify their agenda before they get in there.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: And one way that you simplify your agenda is to stick to the policy that's already there.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, it's not just the usage of the trotter.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: There was also, if you recall, a list of people walking up with budget requests for their pet projects, uh, many of which were quite good, but uh they finally had enough of it and they said, Look, we're gonna do the budget at the appointed time consistently every year.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: Get on it or don't.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: Get on it or don't.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: And has that been followed to your knowledge?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: It looks like it finally is being followed.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: So we need to do the same thing for the trotter, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_07: And every other thing, as you know.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Now well, let me look at bingo.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I I've got to pick on this for a second because I've got thoughts on that as well.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Dude, I know that times have changed, but my granddad used to take me to bingo at the VFW.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: You'd have these ladies that would play four cards at a time, and it was it was neat, but but really all you need for bingo is an eight-foot ceiling and a handful of plastic ashtrays.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's just you don't need the trotter.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: The trotter is supposed to be nice.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I when I think about the trotter, I think about prom.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: I had uh junior prom, and they of course went to victory.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: We we called it a banquet, but whatever.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: We had prom there.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I think about really nice events.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: I I just don't see paying for the upkeep and the air conditioner and the maintenance.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I that place needs to stay nice.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't need millions of feet going across it for every little thing.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I mean the trotter needs to be well used, but it also needs to be paid for uh to for that use as often as possible.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_07: I want to go to because the uh Councilman Spears and Councilman Jefferson on Wednesday at the work session uh attempted to uh lean into a square definition of a city event with a municipal purpose.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_07: And they got close.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_07: They didn't get they didn't get close enough for my liking, but they got close.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_07: So um as they went through it, it must be open for free to the full public to attend.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_07: So it can't be ticketed and it can't be um it can't be ticketed and it can't be uh invite only or just for senior citizens or just for the youth or just for this subsection of the public.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_07: So we it it has to be all inclusive and it has to be free, and the only thing that would cause there to be a problem where you couldn't get in is if fire code would be violated.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_07: And so that's where they left it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_07: But I want to go a step farther than uh Speakers and Jefferson went Wednesday.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_07: So many of these things that the the politicians do in Columbus, and whether they're good events or whether they're not, um and I absolutely some way or another.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_07: But when you strip them away to their marrow, it's it's go TV.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_07: It's a campaign event.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_07: When you put when you put your face on the flyer and you say councilman, so and so and the parks department present bingo or a dinner or whatever, the I mean the mayor's uh uh the mayor's luncheons and different things that he has.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_07: Um those are at their core campaign events.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: Paid for by John Q taxpayer.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_07: By the taxpayer.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_07: And i if I was the Secretary of State, I would be trying to find a way to delineate very clearly between what you have to pay out of your campaign fund and what you have to pay and what the taxpayer has to actually bear the burden for.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_07: And I think where you make that distinction is is a particular person on the flyer and is there an incentive to attend?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_07: And if okay, so you say, all right, well, what about these ward meetings?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_07: Gary Jefferson had a uh ward meeting at Simscott Park where he invited his constituents to come throw tomatoes at him or whatever.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you Oh, that's gonna be great for the trotter, tomato juice all over the floor.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: But why don't they do that at the Townsend place on that$18,000 floor?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_07: Right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_07: Well, that's Ethel's point.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_07: But my point here is these ward meetings where you're just essentially making yourself available to answer questions and whatever.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_07: You're not feeding, you're not playing a game, you're not, you know, you're you're not making it sort of secondary to uh remember I'm your councilman, remember to vote for me next uh next term.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_07: I I don't I feel like that is fine.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_07: But when you add an incentive to attend and you put your face on the flyer, you are campaigning.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_07: It is Go TV.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_07: It is remember me next time.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_07: You walk into that building and cast your ballot.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_07: And that is a campaign event, and that is not a city event with a municipal function.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_07: You can have a municipal function that corresponds with, yeah, you're gonna give information about when your trash day is.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, your trash day is Wednesday.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_07: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_07: Um, this is who you call if you have a problem with X and Y and Z.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_07: But here's your hot dog, and remember that my face is on the flyer.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_07: That's a campaign event, and that shit needs to stop.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_07: Um, or it needs to be paid for by their campaign dollars.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_07: Doesn't need to be paid for by tax dollars, and they certainly don't need to be getting facilities that are available to rent for a fee for free to do that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_07: Now, city uh city event with a municipal function.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_07: Swearing's in that they that they have.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_07: The inauguration.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_07: I'm okay with that one.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_07: They have a budget hearing because they're expecting a bunch of people to show up to to gripe about taxes going.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: Nope, not the trotter.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: No, Zach.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: Not the Trotter for that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_07: That is a that is a city facility, and if the city wants to use it for a for a full city function, there ain't that many damn people interested in the money in this town.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: They could probably meet at City Hall.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_07: If it's the City of Columbus presents, I don't care.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_07: If it is LeVon Harris and the Parks Department present something that's not even at a park, I care.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_07: When you add an incentive to attend, a reward to attend, whether it is a bingo card, bingo card or a hot dog, then you have crossed the threshold of it being the city is doing this and uh the city is doing this municipal function and uh the city is providing a uh an additional service or whatever.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_07: I agree that ticketed events shouldn't be considered.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_07: They're not gonna be.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_07: I agree that everything should be open to the full public if it's gonna be a city event, but I don't think that a city department should be able to present something at the trotter that has an incentive.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_07: And I don't think that a an individual elected official should be able to put their name and face on the flyer as a co-sponsor or host of.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_07: I think that should go on at community centers.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think they should be able to put their face on a billboard either.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: Mayor Jones did that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: He he did.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_07: Well, if you put your face on the flyer, you offer an incentive to do it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_07: Whether you're having that at a community center in the middle of a park, or whether you're having it at the Trotter Convention Center, it's a campaign event.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_07: And they'll argue, no, that's not true, that's not true, that's not true, but it is.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, even if it's not a campaign event per se, it's still a part of that stinky little thread that look, I think our city leaders are doing a great job in general right now.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: However, there is a stinky little thread that in my purview started when Daughtery gave Mayor Jones that escort to the Yo Bar, and then it went from there to him kind of talking about free plane tickets, and then they had the the$60,000 golf cart, and I know that wasn't a serious consideration, but you've got all these things that that kind of cre put a bad taste in people's mouth, like, hey, the city's wanting to use our stuff for their own enjoyment.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_04: And and the the trotter is something definitely to be enjoyed, but but not by individual council members, be it for campaign or not for campaign.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: That thing we just need to keep nice, like for really nice stuff.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: And and use it a lot, sure, but use it for nice things, not for and City of Columbus presents.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, City of Columbus.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_07: The Parks Department is presenting something they've got a dozen parks out there to present it at.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_07: I don't think that the Parks Department and an an individual council person can say with a straight face that they're gonna provide a municipal function that has to be at the trotter.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_07: I just don't think or pay the fee.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Pay the fee.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like they did for White Only Mother's Day.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: Look it up.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: It was great.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not touching that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Zach, I want to show my ignorance about uh the sports world.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you should have been here last week, David.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_04: It was something from what I read.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um Coach Stevens of the EMCC Lions, who uh it's been a movie made about him.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh what else can we say?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, uh exactly.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what I'm telling you.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_07: I'm showing my documentary that he was featured in and his program was featured.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so anyway, he's he's one of these larger than life personalities, and the headline uh uh was um we talked about his firing last week.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_07: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_07: We did talk about the firing last week.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_07: Let's catch the listeners up uh Uh from last week where we left you.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_07: Last week we left you at.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm still at TSA.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm still trying to get through.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_07: We left you at Buddy Stevens been has been relieved as the head football coach at EMCC.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: But nobody was talking about it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: But they finally did talk about it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: He's not there now.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_07: We don't know whether he we didn't know whether he was still employed there.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_07: We had sent uh EMCC a public records request trying to get his employment dates and some other information, and they emailed us to tell us that the answer was in the mail.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_07: So that's where we left you last week.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_07: So let's catch you up.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_07: Between then and now, Buddy got a lawyer.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_07: And Buddy got a lawyer that started talking.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_07: And Buddy got a lawyer that started talking about how what he had to say was a subject of public interest uh in the state, and he had a First Amendment right to do it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_07: So Tuesday morning, while I'm dutifully waiting on uh the middle finger to come in the mail from EMCC, I get this email from their HR director.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_07: They've suddenly discovered that their email works, and in the 21st century you can send anything you want to, just about through it.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_07: He says, Hey, did you ever get that in the mail?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_07: Well, they mailed it Friday.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_07: Monday was Labor Day, so what do you think?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_07: I had not received it.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_07: So I email him back and I'm like, Nope, hadn't got it yet.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_07: Praise be to God.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_07: He says, Well, here it is.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_07: Got it in seconds.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, he found the plug-in to the scanner he did.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_07: It seems like, here it is.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_07: We want you to have it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_07: Open it up.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_07: It's got his hire date, it's got his uh last day of employment, it has his salary, which was$146,000, by the way.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_07: Um no wonder Joe Max was pissed about that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_07: And so you have uh you have all of that, and then you've got this statement at the bottom of this document that they sent where they say um the president and faculty members are the only ones with contracts.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_07: Uh staff members, like Buddy Stevens, have no contract, and they are at-will employees, and they're at-will employees, that which means that we can fire them without with or without calls.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_07: So he's an at-will employee, and now they're standing behind that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_07: And last week, when they were thumbing their nose and laughing in their little office about how we were going to get it in the mail when we got it, all of a sudden, Tuesday morning when Jim Wade starts talking, or they're like, Hey, you got this right?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_07: I I sent it to you email now.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_07: It's right there.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_07: They didn't charge a$310 fee.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_07: I I'm obviously not a judge or a lawyer, and I'm probably won't be on this jury if if there's a lawsuit and and whatnot.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_07: But Buddy absolutely is qualified to talk about the playoff format for junior colleges in Mississippi.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_07: I would say so.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_07: He was the most he was he was the foremost and most recognizable football coach in that circuit for a very long time.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_07: He's the most decorated.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_07: Now you can think what you want to of him personally, you can think of what you want to of his style, but he was asked a question of something that he was qualified to talk about, yeah, and he gave his opinion.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: He's Nick Saban status of the junior college world.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Close.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_04: But Zach, when the word idiot comes out, okay, like I I understand what you're saying.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_07: I get that it wasn't the most tactful way to go about it, but I mean you know what you have, right?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_07: He's been there 18 years.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_07: You watched Last Chance You the first two seasons.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_07: You know what you have.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_07: And that was not him stepping out of line.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, it the the words that he used, maybe not the best choices, but certainly a lot more benign than other things that he said.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_07: And so this and and Scott also Brooks does not have the right to dictate to Buddy what his opinion about the playoff format is any more than Buddy Stevens had the right to compel Scott also Brooks to go vote a certain way on that issue.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: So you think this is going to be a potentially a First Amendment lawsuit?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_07: It's where I mean it hasn't been filed yet, but uh Jim Wade's statement to the media was very clear that he thought that uh Buddy had the First Amendment right to speak on that, and that that seems to be the angle that they're taking.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_07: So that's gonna be an interesting case.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_07: It's gonna be an interesting case.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I I mean, I I'm not a lawyer, but it's like, gee, you have a constitutional right to say stupid things and not go to jail for it.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: But does that You could lose your job, you could lose your job for it, and I look I would I would enjoy seeing a hundred and forty thousand or at least a fraction of that go back into the budget of the MCC.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_07: If you can lose your private job for it, but he works for the government.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_07: So the government is the one who punished him for his speech by firing him, and that makes it different.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_07: And you're seeing that happen in courts uh for people who talked out against your boy, too.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh look I I'm just not enjoying the thought of all this money going into the lawyers' coffers.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because we we one way or another we end up paying for that.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, especially if if EMCC loses.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_07: I think it's very sad that we're talking about needing trade jobs, we're trying to funnel people into trades, and then at the same time the legislature is going, we've got to figure out a sustainable way to afford the community college system.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_07: We may have to restructure it to do it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_07: Those conversations are going on.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_07: So while that's going on, why in God's name do community colleges have football?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_07: And you say, Well, it's a revenue sport bull.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_07: We got the records from when EMCC was in its heyday where that program was bleeding money.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_07: They were subsidizing them having a football program for the sake of having a football program.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_07: Why do community colleges have football programs and why because I think it goes into the very conservative argument that I've heard many times from your lot if you can't afford your groceries, why are you buying cigarettes?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_07: And I feel like right now community colleges with the football programs and who's like EMCC really stake their identity on their football program.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_07: And while the legislature is having the conversations that they're having about community colleges in Mississippi, they're buying cigarettes when they can't afford their groceries.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_07: And somebody who maybe not wouldn't use those same words, but somebody who has preached that gospel before Joe Max Higgins.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, I've I've driven once through the campus of EMCC.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: I had no agenda there.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking about the the scuba campus down there.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't want to speak disparagingly about it, but there just was not a light there save that football stadium.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Tells you everything you need to know.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so um, yeah, this decision, regardless of how or regardless of who, it may very well put that scuba campus in peril uh next legislative session or the one thereafter.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'll leave it at that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: At this time, we are pleased to welcome back into Catfish Alley Studio a repeat guest, Mr.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: Mark Smith, who is the founder and chair of Salute to Lounge's Finest.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh welcome to you, sir.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: Also, we have a big shot from the Big Apple, none other than Mr.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: Mario Zorovic.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, he was a World Trade Center first responder during the attack 25 years ago, uh, Medal of Valor recipient and cop of the year honored by President Bill Clinton before that.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_04: So good to see you in here.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um I feel quite small across the table from you.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just the regular guy, and I I'm glad I'm here, guys, to share some of this with you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_07: Well, uh starting with you, Mark.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_07: Uh uh the the salute to Londs County's Finest, this is sort of taking it back to its roots, I guess, in a way.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's kind of a full circle kind of thing.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, so kind of kind of talk about one, what salute to Lounds County's Finest is, and uh how uh Mario here was uh one of the catalysts for getting it going.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, so salute to Lounge's Finest is um it's an organization that's made up of a committee, basically.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and every year, up until now, every year we had a um first responders uh appreciation luncheon um where we bring them in just like we will um tomorrow um at noon at American Legion, and uh we feed them and we just uh show them how much we appreciate them.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: They get a lot of gifts from the community, um, hundreds of gifts that are handed out.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's also our main fundraiser for the year for our recovery and relief fund, and so that's the big thing.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um our corporate sponsors um are are the ones that allow us to be able to do this, and um uh every year we raise thousands of dollars uh in and every single bit of it goes to the recovery and relief fund.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if a first responder in Lowndes County uh has a personal need, um if there's an injury or the child is is is is sick and needs to go to St.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Jude's or what whatever the case may be, we help step in and fill the gap in between the insurance um and then whatever else that is provided by the employer um uh as best that we can from a financial perspective.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And since 2002, we've raised over a hundred, we we've distributed over a hundred thousand dollars to local area first responders, and we we will continue to do that.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_07: And uh so again, uh how how Mario wraps into this.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um in 2001, Mario took a break from ground zero to come here um to speak to our Chamber of Commerce uh annual lunch or annual dinner.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Had about four or five hundred people there that evening.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um part of the part of the deal was at the time we had a limousine company, and they said um uh we would like for you to donate a limo for him to have for transportation.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I said fine as long as I get to hang out with him.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we quickly became friends, and by the end of it, he said, I'm gonna get you all invited up to ground zero to New York City and host you, uh uh NYPD hosting, um, and more specifically emergency services unit, which he was a part of, which is their special operations division of NYPD.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we did that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: We flew up there and uh went to Ground Zero during recovery and relief efforts.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was surreal.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just uh I was just so impacted by it that I wanted to do something for our local first responders when I got back.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we do things for our veterans, we recognize them.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a veteran, and I get that, but um we don't did we didn't do anything up until then for our first responders.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so came back and started uh salute to Lowndes Finest.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um the first uh one was in 2002 at the police department.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: We had about 48 people there, and now we're we're in excess, uh, probably tomorrow of over 200 people, 200 first responders.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_07: Uh well Mario, and if and if I ask questions that that tug too hard right here, let me know.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_07: But I I I want to I want to go back to uh that that Tuesday morning and what your experience was from I mean, the the day just becoming what it was and what your role in the recovery efforts were.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_07: Well and rescue efforts were.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_08: It started off as a beautiful day.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_08: I happened to be off because of a schedule change that morning.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_08: And I brought the kids to school, came back and dug deep into my newspaper that I enjoyed to read every day.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_08: Next thing I know, my phone is ringing, my mother-in-law's calling the house, asking my wife where I was.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_08: And she goes, she answered, she's right here.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_08: Well, did you did you see the news or the TV yet?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, No.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_08: So I go over to see what's going on, and on there I see the plane, the first plane hitting the building, hitting tower two, and uh my hand started shaking.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_08: I looked at the screen, taking it in, those initial seconds.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_08: Next thing I know, I'm grabbing my gun, my shield, kissed my wife, and said, I'll call you when I can.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_08: And I headed into work.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_08: Uh once I got to work, I found other members of the unit there.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_08: We had new class come out.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_08: So these guys didn't have the experience that we had.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_08: But you're in emergency service now.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_08: So being a senior man there at the time and experienced, I grabbed one guy, took out a piece of equipment, uh vehicle to get down to ground zero, and I told the third guy, you stay here.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_08: When you get two more in, two more can leave, grab a vehicle.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_08: One guy has to stay.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_08: We have to maintain a headcount.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_08: Because knowing and seeing what I saw, I knew we were gonna lose people that day.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_08: And I even warned on the way over to Ground Zero, my partner who's a rookie, ESU guy, I said, be prepared.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_08: We lost guys.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know who, I don't know how many, but that's what we're facing besides the civilians that we're gonna have to try to find.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_08: So going there was very traumatic.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_08: As they had already shut down the city, so we had to cross the bridge with this building collapse truck, which I had a lot of equipment in there for building collapse, and it was just thousands of people crossing the bridge.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_08: They shut down traffic, so I'm pretty much separating these people with my truck, and I didn't step on the brakes once.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_08: They saw this truck coming, they just got out of the way, and I made it into the city and down to ground zero.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_08: After that, we got to the site and it was smoky, you couldn't see.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_08: I had picked up other emergency uh personnel through them in the back of the truck that were waiting to get over.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_08: And uh as we're going around the building site, I hear a rumbling and I can't see anything, and I'm driving this truck, and I got all these other responders in the truck who really don't know what's going on, because it's a huge panel truck and nothing but equipment and bodies.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_08: And next thing I know, a construction worker jumps on the truck and says, Hey, you gotta get out of here.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_08: The gas pipes are gonna blow.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, low.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_08: I said, You gotta be kidding me.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_08: I can't see anything.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_08: Somehow I managed to do a U-turn in an intersection, intersection, get back to an area where I dropped the guys off and I had to put this truck somewhere safe.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_08: Meanwhile, you hear all this rumbling and everything, which I thought were the pipes that already explode.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_08: What it was was the building next building two collapsing.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_08: So the second building, and we drove around to the uh opposite side on the west side of the site.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_08: Couldn't see anything.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_08: I parked the car, locked it, got out, and now I'm trying to find people.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_08: So I I kind of called it my day of shadows, because in that smoke and debris, all I can see was shadows of people.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_08: So my partner and I would grab him, I would figure out where the building line was, as opposed to the site, and we would grab these people and bring them straight to the buildings and into the lobbies.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_08: Some were firemen, some were civilians, some were cops.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_08: And at that time, communication was still going on.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_08: You could make a cell phone call until it got cut off because the tower came down.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_08: And uh we were trying to get information.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_08: I was telling them to call home, let your family know you're all right, and go back up.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_08: And then it just you I guess the military was good with saying the fog of war.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_08: I guess that was my experience with that type of feeling where I was getting overwhelmed.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_08: You know, you're getting uh stimulus, stimulized by all this, everything occurring, and I can't see, having trouble breathing because my face is full of the smoke and debris.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_08: And then out of nowhere, I see a jet coming over our heads, and I could see the ordinance underneath this thing.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, Military, Air Force is flying over.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_08: I could see it's got weapons.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_08: I said, weapons.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_08: Then it dawned on me, I gotta take, I gotta clear my head, I gotta get back into the game.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_08: So I stopped brushing myself off, trying to get my eyesight back, my breathing, checking my weapon, making sure it's loaded, because we realized this was an attack.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_08: Once we got communication back, because they set up a temporary communication post in Brooklyn, because the main tower that was up on the uh on the World Trade Center was down, uh just get back into that game and start going until we were ordered at some point to go back, and they they set up a command post.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_08: That's where we took a head count, that's where we figured out we lost, who was the last people to see them, and try to figure out where we can find them.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_08: And also the people, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_08: We're looking for everybody at this point because it's the first few hours.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_08: So it's a matter of turning this into a rescue and tactical event.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_08: It is the emergency services uh responsibility.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_08: Anything that happens in New York City is our responsibility, whether it's rescue, tactical.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_08: Fire department also does rescue.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_08: And then we learned later on that day how many people they lost, which was 343.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_08: It was just a massive amount of people.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_08: We didn't lose as many, but we lost 14 that initial day.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_08: We're a smaller unit, fire department's huge.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_08: So everybody was in the buildings.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_08: The first wave was in, we were the second wave.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_08: And I I felt so bad because later on, you know, you tried to figure out who you lost, where they were.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_08: Had you been there with them, you know, which would normally happen, could you have seen or done something different that you might have been able to say, hey, we need to get out of here?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_08: And some of the guys did.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_08: Some of the guys who had a little bit more experience with construction, you know, because to get into that unit, you have to have some kind of uh skills, whether it's construction, firearms, rescue, something that you did, military or otherwise, you know, civilian, and you bring that to the table.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_08: So uh, you know, some of the guys did say, hey, this doesn't look good, we need to back off.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_08: And the guys that were running the command posts were just regular cops, you know, these guys, but they had the uh who's it, uh Winkler from one truck.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_08: He was the man that pretty much organized all the parties, all the search parties, you know, who was going where, all the teams.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_08: He had a lock, he had that kind of lockdown.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_08: And then he even put out on the radio, you need to get out of the buildings, they're collapsing, you know, the first one.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_08: And, you know, guys were ducking, everybody out on the outside was ducking on the cars and trucks, whatever was available to get away from debris.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_08: Some guys got hit with debris, you know, and uh they suffered injuries from that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, and then in the long run, uh just turned into a massive, massive rescue and recovery.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_08: We knew at that point, you know, there's you know that there's certain things that you can't do anymore, but we maintained the tactical aspect, the security of the site.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_08: And then it was all the help that we were getting from military, from volunteer fire department, from uh police departments all over, mutual aid from everybody.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_08: And some of the things that I realized later on was how much this affected the country because we had people from all sorts of life from all over the United States come into New York City to help us, feed us, put clothes on our backs, equipment that was being sent up, truckloads of equipment.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_08: And later on, uh we did.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_08: I was part of well, a lot of guys were part of the uh rescue teams that were going in.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_08: The last two surviving members, uh, they were Port Authority and McLaughlin and Jimenez, I believe.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_08: 11:30, the first night, we were able to get Jimenez out from the hole that they found them in.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_08: And his partner, the Port Authority clap, uh McLachlan, Sergeant McLaughlin, they got him out in the morning, but a lot of us took turns in going into the hole where he was and helping him, you know, dig him out.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, I was in that hole at about eleven, twelve thirty at night, and I had a Choice.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_08: I could have stayed on, you know, they had lines of just moving debris.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, that wasn't what I was trained for.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_08: I was trained for rescue.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_08: I'm going to the hole.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_08: So I remember climbing up the berm of the site at the time, which was almost two, three stories high.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_08: And then you had to go to the center of the site.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_08: And everything, if you ask me what hell was like, that was hell.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_08: Because you see the framework and the dim light.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_08: You see the shadows, you see the fire, the smoke.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_08: It's hot in one area, cool in another, the bottom of your feet getting hot, you're on a piece of steel with all that steam emanating from the heat.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_08: It was like a big Dutch oven.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_08: And there was still a lot of flame around.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_08: And all around you was equipment that belonged to the rescue workers that were in the collapse themselves.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_08: So if you needed a flashlight or a halligan tool or anything that you might carry, you found it on the ground.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_08: And the alarms, now this the SCBAs that we wear, you see everybody wear a tank going into a burning building.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_08: They have alarms on them.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_08: So if they're not moving within a certain time frame, the alarms on these things go off, right?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_08: So that you know somebody might have fallen fallen, he's he's unconscious, you need to go get well.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_08: There were hundreds of those all over the place, just going off.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_08: Oh my God.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_08: So this is what the environment you're walking into at night.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_08: So you don't know where it's safe to walk or anything.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_08: You can make a wrong step, fall, and you can get fall in a void.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_08: You could fall and get impaled on some kind of rebar or something, bang your head on steel, anything.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_08: We'll finally make it to the hole, and we had to go into the hole and hang on on rebar.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_08: And while we're hanging there waiting our turn to go deeper, there's a fireman there cooling us off with a fire hose.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_08: He just spray inside there because you couldn't breathe, the steam's coming up, and it's dirty, and you can't.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_08: It was just a mess.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_08: And he's keeping us cool.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_08: Then once I got at my when I went in, my experience was this going down on my hands and knees, looking at this little hole that was made by the guys before me, and all I can see was the sergeant's hands over the little bit of debris that was left, and they covered him with his turnout coat to protect him.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_08: And we were trying to cut the rebar and make that hole bigger for the guy behind you.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_08: So you would go in.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_08: So when I went in there, I would pass some bottles of water, we were keeping him hydrated, but the way he was uh the way he was covered, he was in my in this type of position, just maybe tilted forward a little and just buried in that debris.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, in a seated position, but tilted forward.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_08: But he we couldn't see each other, but we can communicate at that time.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_08: And all I can do is dig in there like a turtle, bring my hands in, dig out, pass it to my feet, and push that dirt out with my feet, give him water, talk to him, and keep try to keep him.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_08: You know, he's telling me, well, he's gonna die, he's not gonna see his family, and I was assuring him that no, you're not gonna die today.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_08: We're gonna get you home.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_08: There's hundreds of people out here gonna make sure you get home.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_08: And we were able to do that at 7:30 in the morning.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_08: They eventually got him out.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Oliver Stone made a movie about that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_08: I'm sorry.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, yeah, they did.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_08: I think Nicolas Cage played.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_08: Nicolas Cage played, yeah.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_08: When I went, I went to see that.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_08: It was hard for me to decide to go to that movie because I knew it was gonna bring back a lot of memories.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_08: So I took my youngest son at the time, I think it was, I think it was my youngest, and we went to the movies.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_08: But we were alone there.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_08: I went to the earliest movie that day.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_08: I knew people were working, it was gonna be quiet.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_08: I think there was only a few people in the theater at the time, and I watched it, and all these memories started flooding back into my head.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_08: But I stayed the whole time.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_08: I wanted to see how they were gonna finish this off, how they were gonna respect the guys that were involved in working.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_07: What'd you think of it?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_07: Huh?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_07: What'd you think of it on the whole?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, you know, it's a movie.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_08: You know, so of course, there are some things that are embellished and and everything else.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_08: But, you know, to me it was just all right, this is their their uh interpretation of what went on.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_08: And I left, I left it at that.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_08: It's hard, it's kind of hard for me to look at things like that in a sense of how much of it is real when they present it, you know, what they're presenting to the general public who didn't have who didn't know what was going on, who didn't know what was there.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: Well, speaking of that, Mario, here we are 25 years removed.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we have living adults who have no memory of that day.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_04: There are people that that weren't even born yet, or just born.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: Give given just how things are today, do you think that we've forgotten?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_08: I don't think it was forgotten.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_08: I think because of the generational change, it's not taught the way it should be taught.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_08: It's not presented the way it should be presented.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_08: They try to sugarcoat things, they try to make things not look so bad.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_08: There's nothing wrong with telling the truth and say it all.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_08: This was a terrorist attack.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_08: They want to kill all of us for not believing in their beliefs, for our associations with other foreign countries, and as far as they're concerned, they're here to make your life as miserable as theirs is over there.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_08: And that's it.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_08: And I've had I've had the opportunity up by me where I live in upstate New York to talk to a lot of rotary clubs.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_08: And remember, when you're talking to a rotary club, it's a small community, each one, right?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_08: So when I went up there and talked, you know, all these people, just like here in Lowndes County, they're interested in knowing what went on.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_08: You know, we we we were American, we heard about it, we see it, you know, we support the police, the fire department, everybody doing their job.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_08: But they didn't really have a connection until the last time that I did a rotary uh talk.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_08: I was involved along uh in 1997 now, 1993.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_08: I was in the I report I respond I responded to the first Trade Center attacks.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_08: I was there for that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_08: 1997, we prevented a terrorist event in New York City where terrorists wanted to bomb the uh the transit system and kill as many Americans as they possibly could.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_08: And this was supposed to take off, they were supposed to do it at six in the morning.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_08: We got the information at about two in the morning, had to come up with a tactical plan and execute the plan to prevent this from happening.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_08: Subsequently, we caught three individuals, two were shot, none of us were hurt, thank God.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_08: The tactical plan changed because of what we were hearing as far as the intelligence on this and the confirmations that we were receiving, both orally and by the person that gave these individuals up.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_08: We had him on site with a heavy vest on with an interpreter who spoke his language, which was Egyptian.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_08: So somewhere they found a rookie cop who happened to be able to speak Egyptian.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_08: Talk to this guy.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_08: And we had him point in the door, physically point in the door to us.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_08: Anyways, after they had gone to court, FBI made, you know, replica devices and they showed in court what damage they can do by by uh using the explosives in trains and everything else, like they had wanted to do.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_08: And they showed the devastation, it would have killed everybody, it would have killed hundreds of people on an open platform, which I don't know if you've ever been to New York.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_08: You go into the platforms, how many people are there?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_08: And back then, yeah, even more, you know.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_08: And they wanted to do this when everybody was going to work at rush hour.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_08: So you're talking thousands of people.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_08: Anyways, at this rotary talk, one of the people walks up to me and says, Hey, can I speak to you a minute?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_08: I go, sure, yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_08: You're you could ask me anything.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_08: She goes, No, no.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_08: I I'm on the phone with my cousin.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_08: I told her that I was here and that you were a speaker here when he described who I was and what I was talking about.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_08: So I have to talk to him.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_08: How are you doing?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_08: Marizorovic.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_08: Hi, I I just want to let you know.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_08: She says, told me who she was.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_08: I forgot her name because it's been so long now.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_08: And she told me she was on the jury.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_08: She was on the jury during that case when they were trying them in the federal court, Cadman Plaza in Brooklyn.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_08: And she said, you know, as an American, I never thought of the dangers, which 90% of the population don't think about because you feel you're safe in America.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_08: She said to me on the phone, I was never more fearful and aware in my life about what's going on in this world than that, than when I went to court.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, Well, what makes you say that?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_08: What happened in court?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_08: And I had a funny feeling, I knew what she was going to say, but she said that all they kept talking about, they wouldn't answer questions when they were on the stand.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_08: All they would say is how they wanted to kill Americans and kill as many of them as they can.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_08: So what does that tell you?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_08: So it left a very big impression on somebody who never thought about something like that.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_08: You got an innocent juror who now sees the ugly part of the world and her experience, and she wanted to share that with me.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_08: And I just wanted to reassure her look, yes, this exists.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_08: We we try to do everything we can, and the first responders will always be there.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_08: We've learned our lessons too.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_08: We try to, you know, unfortunately it's reactionary.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_08: We have to wait for something to happen before we deal with it and what we need to do after to deal with that situation better.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_08: And uh, you know, that's just the way it is.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_08: But to hear that from them, absolutely, you know, how much we were appreciated, how much more she appreciated the police and what we can do and things that they didn't know that we were capable of.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_08: You know, a lot of people don't know what first responders can do.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_08: It's evolved so much, whether you're firemen, EMTs, or police.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_08: The spectrum has broadened, you know, and what does it mean?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_07: Well, and post-9-11 it was a big part of that.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, huge, especially for guys who went through it.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_08: Didn't matter who you were, because of the psychological aspect.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_08: You lose friends, what could you have done to make it different?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_08: Survivor guilt, all these things.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_07: Well, and I wanted to stop there too, because I I wanted to ask you about that.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_07: How if you don't mind my asking.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_08: No, no, how how do you deal with the fact that you went home and people that you knew didn't I was after five years, because just to go back a little, when I retired, I had worked in Manhattan for a while for a security company.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_08: Kept me busy, you know.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_08: You're working, you're not thinking, you're doing what your job, right?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_08: Know your job, do your job.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_08: But when I moved, I left New York, I was living in Long Island at the time.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_08: I sold the house, went upstate to an area where my wife had some family that we were, that we knew, and it was very beautiful up there, good quality of life.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_08: But for the next five years, what I didn't realize was happening to me, I was shutting down.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_08: If it wasn't work-related or something, I was shut down, wasn't talking to anybody.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_08: And then my wife pretty much told me, hey, you're gonna lose your family, you're gonna lose us, you're losing us already.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_08: And then when I dealt with them, you know, it wasn't on a good, a good way.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_08: And then I had to come to a realization I need to speak to someone.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_08: And she said, you need to speak to someone.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_08: Now, let me tell you something.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_08: As a first responder, as a cop, who do you talk to?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_08: Unless it's your own or somebody that went through that experience.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_08: Same thing for military guys.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_08: They're not gonna talk to a civilian.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_07: You gotta have somebody who can credibly listen to what you hear and say and understand it.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_08: Unless you walked in my shoes or in my boots, I'm not talking to you because you have no clue what I'm talking about.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_08: And the trust level, if I tell you this, where's it going from there?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_08: Is it gonna affect my job?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_08: Is it something that's gonna be documented that if I show it, hey, this guy's potentially a kook, he might be harmful to other people or himself.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I'm saying?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_08: It it you you the defense shields go up, you know.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_08: But I was able to gain work through a friend of mine, former guy I worked with, and uh I do a lot of work overseas training individuals for the State Department in two different fields.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_08: It's all part of the ATAP program, so it kept me busy.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_08: So I what I was teaching was the same things that I did when I was working in the emergency service unit on the tactical side.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_08: So that and meeting up with new people and everything else, it helped me out a lot.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_08: Still fighting the fight, just a different way, right?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_08: Because I'm not a young guy anymore.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_08: My body tells me and warns me when it things, yeah, you should stop there.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_08: You know, don't push yourself.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_08: But, you know, it it takes a while.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_08: And unless you seek help, and you're not gonna get it.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_08: So that's where a lot of guys run into trouble.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_08: And the other thing was a lot of our guys, I mean, we lost 14 individuals from our unit that day, but we lost 18 more through illnesses, cancers, everything.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_08: You know, breathing, a combination of both.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_08: There are guys out there, not just cops, firemen, and EMTs, that have suffered.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_08: But now you that's what we know of.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_08: And then the civilians who were there also who suffered.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_08: There are a lot of civilians in there.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_08: Walking around, they were in that dust cloud, couldn't see anything.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_08: They got exposures.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_08: So there's a lot of work to be done, but people have to try to realize: look, accept the fact that you were harmed, get help.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_08: Whatever way you can do it.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_08: And that's kind of my message with that is you know, there are people who care.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_08: You don't have to share everything, and you're there's a privacy, right?
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_08: So they're not gonna use it against you.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_08: But you have to find somebody that they have to be able to find somebody they could trust to open up.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_08: Sure.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_08: And that are legitimate looking out for their welfare.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_08: If they feel one second.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_08: So again, I'm gonna backtrack.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_08: Shortly after the event started at 9-11, they decided to bring us to King's King's County College, which is on the outskirts of New York City in Brooklyn.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_08: So we had to go there from the site.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_08: Now, mind you, I already did a midnight shift.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_08: Then at that time, you did your midnight shift.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_08: We did our shifts trying to man, because you still got to protect the city.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_08: That responsibility doesn't end.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_08: And then you had to do your time at, you know, once you're done with that, you went to ground zero.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_08: So you're working.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_08: I was getting two, three hours of sleep a day, you know, at home for maybe four or five hours.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_08: I go back.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_08: So anyway, we go down to Kings County and we're like, why are we here?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_08: Well, we want to get names and everything because they're trying to think of how they're gonna insert psychological help with guys.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_08: So I'm sitting there listening to what's going on, my sergeants there and midnight guys.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_08: And we're all sitting there, there's a bunch of, you know, horse manure.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_08: I said, they're not ready for us, they're not ready for this.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_08: They basically wanted a CYA, oh, you're here for psychological reasons, take your name.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_08: I said, they could get a roll call and do that.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_08: They could take a roll call of everybody that's there, sign off, you know, that they're gonna be getting some kind of help.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_08: But right now, they're not helping us.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_08: So I told my sergeant, I told the guys, is this all we're doing?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_08: Is just being here?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_08: Because I can be home right now for the few hours than wasting my time here till you're ready for this.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_08: I looked at my sergeant, I said, Sergeant, can I go?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_08: This is ridiculous.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_08: And he agreed with me, and we all got up and left.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_08: So they had to come up with a better plan.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_08: Right, you know, and they did eventually, you know, there was nothing really that you had to report to and talk to somebody.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_08: It was just they were preparing themselves for the aftermath.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_08: Once every the dust starts settling, once we come out of this, what are we going to be dealing with?
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_08: So they were prepping themselves for that, I would imagine.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_08: I couldn't tell you for sure because my my mission was to continue doing what I had to do.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_08: So when I was there, you know, uh shortly after, like two, three days afterward, when we were a little bit more organized, we were attached.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_08: I was part of the uh Task Force One, which is a unit that they have that will go to events like floods, earthquakes.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_08: We'll send a team of trained ESU personnel mixed with EMTs and fire department, and they go as a team wherever they're needed.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_08: Hurricane, they were in Puerto Rico.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_08: I got a call once to go to our uh Armenia when they had a big earthquake, and I was like, I'll go, but uh is this, you know, is this for sure?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_08: So I need to know what I need to prep.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_08: Anyway, it didn't end up happening, but they were prepping for it.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_08: But they'll take that team and send them anyway.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_08: So anyway, they organized it for uh ground zero, and I was part of that.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_08: So rather than just going out and randomly, all right, there's a good place to dig or something, we were given specific missions.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_08: So if cadaver dogs would find huge amounts of concentrated smells of bodies, we might be ordered to dig there and try to locate.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_08: We were given orders one night to try to find the uh black boxes from the planes.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_08: It was something different every time we went out.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_08: But we were given specific missions and orders.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_08: But then after the first month, when we realized, look, there's no more rescue here.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_08: Anybody that's in there pretty much by now from exposure or injury, they're pretty much passed on.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_08: It's gonna be a recovery.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_08: So then after like the first month of doing that, we went back to tactical rescue mode.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_08: And uh we worked the site every month, every day until it was over when they said, all right, we don't have to come down here anymore.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_08: And it was like a gradual release of the burden, in a sense.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_08: Because of course, initially, you're not stopping, you know, you're moving, you're eating to stay awake.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_08: I remember uh I think it was the first, yeah, it was the first night before the dig for McLaughlin and Jimenez.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_08: I had found a ship that they moored on the west side where they were feeding the first responders.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I said, hey, go to that ship, make it to the west side, you get some hot food.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, go there.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_08: You know, sure as shit, excuse my language, but you're good.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_08: But uh, we were able to find food, and I sat outside on the deck trying to eat, and I fell asleep with the food in my and a buddy of mine woke me up who was a cop, worked with me when I was still assigned to a precinct on patrol.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_08: He had become a fireman, and he saw me laying there and he woke me up, you know, and he goes, You okay?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, Yeah, and I'm looking up.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_08: I said, Oh, Jimmy, you were right.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_08: And then I'm asking for Frank, who was my old partner who had gone to the fire department.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_08: He goes, Yeah, he's fine too.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_08: Then I found uh my old partner's cousin who went to the fire department, and he was good, and my part, my old partner, so but then the call went over, hey, we need to rally up at a certain point, and then that's when we moved over to the dig for the Port Authority guys.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_08: So it was a lot of things like that going on, and you know, we we had found bodies I was going into voids, and you know, the voids would be small and then they would enlarge independent.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_08: And one night I was in this one void I went into, and it was a big, it was almost like a big area.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_08: It was a fairly big area, like two rooms, and then it just squeezed into a tight spot.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_08: And I had to take my gear off and kind of slide my way into the next void.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_08: And I bang my head and I, what the hell is that?
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_08: And I turn around, it's a head.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_08: And what I see is a body that's entwined.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_08: In the debris.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, Well, can't do nothing for this guy, you know, and then just got to remember kind of from the entrance where that body was.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: So your job was to pick this stuff up, basically put it in boxes and send it to them.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, we have to do the recovery.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_08: Who else is gonna do it?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_08: Who does the recovery?
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_08: We do.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_08: We have to recover human remains.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_08: And remember.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_07: Get back to the families and things.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, you have to find something so that these families have closure, you know.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_08: Plus, you gotta remember if they're in these heated areas, these bodies are cooking.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_08: So you're breathing in that from the dead bodies.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_08: You're breathing in the debris.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_08: There's a lot of asbestos in there.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_08: There's a lot of everything, and you're breathing all this in.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_08: And at that time, we were not certain what breathing uh apparatus that we could we could wear.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_08: And then we were assured about certain things that we found out to be lies.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, my God.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_04: I I can't help but wonder, do you get angry at people who are offended because someone looked at them wrong?
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just compare that to what you've seen and what you've been through as and people uh just we've got it, we've got it good.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_08: Looking at looking at what wrong.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_08: I I don't understand.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_04: Well, what I'm asking is um I I just feel like the the post-9-11 generation, yeah.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, the the war stories, I call them war stories because they sound like uh things that my granddad told me about World War II.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_04: And and they just make a person different.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just wondering how you cope with frankly the softies out there that that get bent out of shape over these first five problems.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_08: But if I hear something really uh I I I generally try to walk away.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_08: And if I'm with my wife, she'll hear it too.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_08: And she would tap me and say, Come on, come on, let's go, let's go.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_08: Because if I get into it with you because of what you're saying, it might lead to something else, and I don't want to do that.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I'm it's not my mission in life to get into an argument with somebody who's just ignorant, right?
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_08: It's not worth my time.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_08: I did what I had to do when I did it.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_08: I tried to do it to the best of my ability so that I could look back and say I did everything I possibly could to do my job, and more.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_08: We all pushed ourselves to the limit, and more.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_08: You know, people generally are fairly good people, right?
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_08: We try to believe that.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_08: But then when you hear somebody spewing stuff that they have no idea what they're talking about, they're just ignorant and they're scared.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_08: They're their thoughts on things and people, you know, maybe I even on first responders, maybe we didn't do enough.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_08: They have no clue.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_08: If you weren't there, you don't know.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_08: And we had civilians who would come out first night, right by where the future command center was for the police at the time.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_08: And they were showing it on the news up in New York.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_08: It was a burger king, a burger king.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_08: We used that as a command center for the first few nights.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_08: And that first night, when they closed down the city, no civilians should be walking around because we didn't know who you were, if you were truly friend or foe, right?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_08: And this um this little oriental girl in her teens had a shopping cart that you would use to put your bags in and take home with you, filled with water.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_08: Mask on, you know, just a simple face mask.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_08: And she came out asking us if we wanted water.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_08: Now she shouldn't be here.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_08: This is 11:30 at night, 12 o'clock.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_08: You're not supposed to be here.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_08: It's you know, you get in trouble besides getting hurt, you know.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_08: And some cop was yelling at her about not being, you shouldn't be here, whatever.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_08: I walk over, I said, Hey, I got this.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_08: She brought us this water.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_08: I said, All right, I say to the guys, take the water.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_08: She brought us water.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_08: Took the water, we made sure guys drank, they went into that Burger King, started drinking, cleaning off a little, and then I sent her on her way.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_08: Little things like that.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_08: People cared, they saw us working hard, trying to do the right thing, and they they came out to support us.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_08: Now, this fast forward, I get an opportunity through Jackie and Mark to come down here.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_08: You're talking about Jaclyn DeCico?
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, DeCico, Jaclyn DeChico, Mark Smith here.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_08: And I come to Mississippi, didn't know what to expect, got treated like royalty.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_08: The people, the outpour of love, support was overwhelming for me.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_08: You know, and the first night when I spoke to the crowd, I asked them, I said, How many people are gonna be here?
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, don't worry, it's only gonna be like maybe 27 people, 30 people, something.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay, no big deal.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_08: I walk into this room, there's like 300 people.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_08: What was the exact number?
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_08: It's probably more than that.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_08: More than 300 people.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_08: I'm like, oh shit, you know, this is gonna be something.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_08: And I I have nothing prepared.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_08: I I don't have a speech, I don't have nothing written.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_08: But I'm pretty good at talking from the heart, you know.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_08: And uh I went out there when it was my time to talk when I was presented.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_08: I just talked to them and try to give them my story from my experiences from the beginning to that point.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_08: Because mind you, this was still ongoing.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_08: So I got away from the city for a couple of days and had to go back.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_08: And at the end, I remember saying, I don't know why I'm here, I should be back in New York.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I'm thinking in my head, like I got some pretty big balls not being where I'm supposed to be right now.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_08: Here I am talking to these people, I should be digging, you know, guilt coming in and realizing that, and then you get over it, and then there's a line of people that wanted to talk to me because I asked one of the ladies, there was another lady there with blonde hair.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I forget her name.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_08: That's okay.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_08: But I turned to her and I said, Who are these people lining up for?
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, they want to talk to you.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_08: Me.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_08: It was like a big conga line of people.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_08: And I said, All right, and I got over there and you know, I'm talking to them.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_08: But what put me at ease was there were veterans there and guys that were currently in the military.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_08: And they had appreciated my story because similar to their stories, and the feelings that I had that I presented, and they were telling me, yeah, this is how you're gonna feel, they'd made me, you know, I hear somebody that went through something traumatic, and they're helping me out by talking to me.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_08: I'll never forget that.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_08: You know, you'll be okay, and you know, shook my hand and this and that.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_08: I appreciated that.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_08: I wasn't in the military myself, but I always had a great deal of respect for the military.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_08: Sure.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_08: Um, I wanted to go.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_08: There were other reasons why I didn't, but that's that was my future as a kid, you know.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_08: I was always used to say, I want to be an FBI guy, FBI agent, right?
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_08: See all the shows.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_08: I saw enough John Wayne movies, I wanted to go to Marines, right?
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_08: That was my my dad asked me, you're gonna go to college or what?
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_08: I wanted to go to Marines.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_08: You know, my family came from Yugoslavia at the time, which was a communist country, and we were vetted by family members and brought to this country legally and in legal ways, and became American citizens.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_08: And my dad had to go through the military in a communist country, and his experiences were not good in a communist country.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_08: You know, you they you pretty much have a boot on your throat.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_08: So, anyways, he did what he had to do, and he asked me, Look, you're in an old, I was an only child, I don't have any siblings.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_08: So he said, give us, give your mother a chance and try school first.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_08: If school doesn't work out, then join the military.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_08: Do what you have to do.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_08: I said, Okay, I'll try it.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_08: Went to college.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_08: I went to a criminal justice college, on Jay, and you know, you're learning things about law and everything, and police work.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_08: And I had the opportunity to take a couple exams, police, uh, the regular police exam, because there was housing, police, and transit police departments.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_08: Later on, they got merged.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_08: They were merged, and then they were divisioned.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_08: But at that time, I took the transit test and the regular city.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_08: I ended up passing both, and I got the first letter from the city who accepted me into the academy.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_08: Had I wanna, I got an answer by blah, blah, blah.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_08: Got into the academy and started my police career earlier.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_08: I wanted to do four years military, then police.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_08: That was like I said I'd be prepared better, you know.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_08: But I said, well, school, nah, I could get paid, you know, start working.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_08: I'm gonna do that, which worked out great because when I got out of the academy, I was 20 years old going in, 21 when I graduated, which allowed me to legally also possess a firearm, right?
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_08: You gotta be 21 in New York.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_08: So it all lined up.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_08: And I got into the department at a young age, which allowed me to retire at a young age, because the requirement was 20 years.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, when I was due to retire, I had done just under a year.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_08: I I I was able to gradu uh to retire in January.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_08: I left in August of that year.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_08: And uh best thing I did because of my head, where my head was at, and you know, I was still angry.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_08: Um all I wanted to do was find a way to how am I gonna get them back?
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_08: How am I gonna get back at these people for doing and killing my friends and what they did to us?
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_08: And uh my way of doing it was teaching, teaching other people in other countries who fight terrorism on their ground, and those who are set up to help protect American citizens working at U.S.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_08: embassies fight terrorism, rescue, and protect Americans overseas, besides their own people.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_08: That's how I dealt with it.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_08: And it's been I've been doing it for the last 13 years, and I've been able to take some former ESU personnel and get them vetted and get them working there that they wanted.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_08: And so it was a little bit of a process.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_08: Now that I've been around a while, I just hit 65.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_08: I still like doing it.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_08: I still am capable to do a few things.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_08: I'm in a lot better shape than I used to be.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_08: I got over some stuff, some medical issues.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_08: So I'm feeling good and just trying to keep it going.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_08: But um here, why I'm here today is the support that Mark and Jackie, this salute organization, what they're doing for first responders, is so critical and important because first responders need to know that they're appreciated, that they have some kind of help one way or another.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_08: The support of the community is what keeps you going.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_08: If the community wants a good good quality of life, the police, the fire, the EMTs, the 9-11 operators, these are the people that provide that security, a meaningful, good quality of life for everybody.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_08: It's a relationship that works both ways.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_08: And what they have done in the last 25 years has grown from me, of all people, when I think about it.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I people go, Who are you?
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_08: I'm just a cop from Brooklyn, you know.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_08: But it's led me to so many places and opportunities and to see something like that that has grown.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_08: And for years he's been trying to get me back down here.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, this this is amazing what we're doing for the community, what we're doing for the first responders.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_08: I say, Yeah, it sounds great, everything.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_08: I I just can't, because I was being whisked away.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_08: I'm going to Africa, I'm going to the Middle East.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_08: I went to Iraq, I was in Afghanistan, I was in places all over.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_08: And then this year, I had an opportunity where I had nothing going on during this time.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_08: And I was thinking of going back to downstate.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_08: And then I said, no, I'm not ready for that yet.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_08: So there's still a little bit in me that in order to be a part of that, closer to Grounds, I stay away from right now.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_08: And to be able to come back here and then bring my wife so that she could see and experience what I did the first time I was here, and to see how it's grown and what they're doing, so important to me.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_08: I had to come.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_08: I said, hey, I'm free, Mark.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_07: Well, we really appreciate you coming today and appreciate you sharing your story and uh appreciate what you guys are doing uh in your organization, Mark.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_07: Is there anything either one of you want to add?
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of hard to follow that, but I will say that But by this time that this has dropped, we won't have any first responders.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to get as many first responders coming.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times that's a challenge.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_01: But also want to just address the fact that uh we have the means uh and resources to help our first responders in a time of personal need.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're a proud group of people, and sometimes um they really don't like to ask for help.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we encourage them to do that.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: They can reach out um uh confidentially, and uh we'd be glad to help them, and we do have the means to do so and we want to do it.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_07: Thank y'all so much for coming in today.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Craig.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you, guys.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's been about as real as it's gonna get here in Catfish Alley Studio today.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_04: Our special guests have been Mr.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_04: Mark Smith and Mario Zarvik.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_04: Zach, three things to note.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_07: Three things to know.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_07: Number one, if you live in Caledonia, your town property taxes could rise by 17% next fiscal year.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_07: The extra revenue will help fully staff the town marshal's office and provide more funds for building maintenance.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_07: Alderman will vote on the town's budget Friday.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_07: Number two, the 25th Tennessee Williams Tribute starts Friday in Columbus, celebrating the famous playwright who once lived in the friendly city.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_07: Events run Friday through Sunday and will celebrate the playwright's history in Columbus as well as some of his earlier works.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_07: It's the subject of a documentary headed for the big screen.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_07: Documentarian Ed Robbins chronicled the student project in a Mississippi story, which will premiere September 22nd at the Richmond International Film Festival in Virginia.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_07: And that's pretty cool.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_04: Reach out to us tips at cdispatch.com.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_04: You can also follow me on Facebook or X at the Chisholm Double Zero and leave a public comment.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_04: Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus, your host has been Zach Plair, and I am David Chisholm.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Y'all stay friendly out here.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a simple old country boy, but um I think that makes sense.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_04: You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's what old people do.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_03: That is.