Latest / Black Ibis Social Club / S2E16: Autumn Christian

Transcript

S2E16: Autumn Christian · Black Ibis Social Club

0:01
Bye.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Hey, welcome to the Black Ibis Social Club.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, another week here.
0:17
And today,
0:20
Fisto decided to not show up because he's got more important
0:23
things to do.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: He'll probably talk about it next week.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: He's out there adding bullet points,
0:30
SPEAKER_00: his MK Ultra profile,
0:32
SPEAKER_00: activating himself for whatever the hell he's doing.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: But tonight, joining me, I got Autumn Christian, right?
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Autumn is a writer, writer,
0:43
SPEAKER_00: blogger, I guess, Substacker, but primarily a writer.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: She has two novels written,
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Girl Like Bomb and The Cricket God Machine,
0:51
SPEAKER_00: a bunch of short stories.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing,
0:54
SPEAKER_00: if I remember correctly,
0:55
SPEAKER_00: two short story collections and a bunch of other stories everywhere.
0:59
And she writes a newsletter blog on Substack called Teaching
1:04
Robots to Love.
1:05
It used to be an independent blog,
1:06
but I think she moved it to Substack a few years ago.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: But I've been following her for a while.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: What's up, Autumn?
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks for having me.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, I've been looking forward to having you on for a while.
1:17
I think I started randomly following you on Twitter back on the
1:20
Twitter before X
1:21
SPEAKER_00: days on my old account.
1:24
And I think the reason I followed you is because you posted
1:26
something about San Diego.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, I love San Diego.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I actually like.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, I like writing.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And I ended up reading Girl Like Bomb.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: And I really enjoyed that novel.
1:41
So tell us about yourself real fast if you want to introduce
1:45
yourself better than I could.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you pretty much covered it.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm a novelist.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: I write on Substack.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: I guess I started on MailChimp, which feels ancient now.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's what it was.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: I remember that now.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:01
Yeah,
2:01
Warren Ellis used to text me,
2:04
I guess,
2:04
because he was like,
2:05
oh,
2:05
it's a cute goth girl.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: And then he told me to start a newsletter.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, if Warren Ellis tells me to do it, who am I to say no?
2:14
SPEAKER_02: So that's how that happened.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: The guy's a wizard, right?
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And then he disappeared.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Does he do anything anymore?
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Has he done anything anymore?
2:25
SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard anything about him for a while.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: No, he kind of disappeared after he got canceled.
2:31
um i haven't heard anything since didn't he write then he wrote
2:36
he wrote a novel
2:36
right like jerusalem or something like that yeah he wrote
2:39
several now i can't think
2:40
of the name of them but he wrote one that was basically like a
2:43
a european's idea of
2:45
like a a great american novel which was like pretty funny to um
2:51
to read especially
2:52
SPEAKER_02: like the texas part right talking about like people carting in like huge
2:57
steaks uh like i don't know it's crazy he wrote did he read
3:02
crooked little vein am
3:03
i thinking of yeah yeah that one okay all right i had an
3:07
ex-girlfriend who was
3:10
really like she just loved all his stuff you know and she
3:13
always tried to get me to
3:14
SPEAKER_00: read it and uh
3:17
I think I read Crooked Little Vein,
3:19
but I don't remember anything from it.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was in a bad era at that time, so I don't remember anything.
3:25
Yeah,
3:25
I can't tell you much about it either,
3:27
because it's like a dark part of my past,
3:30
I guess.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: So you're still a writer.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And from what I understand,
3:35
SPEAKER_00: looking on your Twitter,
3:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
3:37
SPEAKER_00: I guess X,
3:38
SPEAKER_00: you know,
3:39
SPEAKER_00: profile or whatever,
3:40
SPEAKER_00: you have a new novel coming out,
3:42
SPEAKER_00: right?
3:42
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty, pretty exciting.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: I hope it's coming out.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's still like.
3:48
pending um it's with my agent right now so okay you know how
3:52
like slow publishing
3:53
can be yeah yeah it's pretty people are like oh when's your
3:58
book coming out i'm
3:58
like well between now and five years from now you know um but
4:03
yeah but you've been
4:05
writing pretty much all your life right and uh you you put you
4:09
put out crooked god
4:10
machine like when you're pretty young like 1920 if i'm correct
4:13
or am i getting yeah
4:14
SPEAKER_02: yeah i started
4:15
writing it when i was like 18 or 19 and then i put it out like
4:18
a couple years later
4:20
right and then uh girl like bomb came out a little bit later
4:24
than that's more
4:24
that's more recent right yeah i think i was like 27 which seems
4:31
like a lifetime now
4:32
SPEAKER_00: but yeah so why writing why get into writing i mean why not well
4:41
i think it was because i started writing like when i was six
4:45
and i didn't really
4:45
like you don't really like understand why you do things at that
4:48
age but um right
4:51
like now that i now that i think about it it's it was sort of
4:53
like the only like
4:55
artistic expression i could do that was like private and it was
4:59
like i didn't need
5:00
any resources like you need paper right or like a like a word
5:04
processor so it was i
5:06
SPEAKER_02: feel like
5:08
when I think about it because like people are like why writing
5:10
and at the time I'm
5:11
like well it could have been anything really but I don't think
5:14
it could have been
5:15
because it was like yeah it was it was the only thing that I
5:18
could do that was like
5:20
SPEAKER_00: secret to me right writing is interesting because it
5:27
SPEAKER_00: it requires very little,
5:29
SPEAKER_00: um,
5:30
SPEAKER_00: material,
5:31
SPEAKER_00: like,
5:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:32
SPEAKER_00: involvement,
5:33
SPEAKER_00: basically,
5:34
SPEAKER_00: especially if you're not particularly well off or,
5:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:38
SPEAKER_00: have money lying around.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Um,
5:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
5:41
SPEAKER_00: like you can get into music,
5:43
SPEAKER_00: but that stuff is expensive,
5:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:47
SPEAKER_00: equipment and stuff.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And then you need other people most of the time,
5:51
SPEAKER_00: unless you're like super talented and you're like a
5:54
freaking bob dylan singer songwriter type type dude uh you know
5:58
painting i i was i
6:01
did a lot of painting when i was young i even went to to school
6:06
for fine art for a
6:07
little bit before i decided to to balance and uh that the
6:11
shit's expensive i'm like
6:13
i uh i didn't realize how expensive i mean i used to like
6:16
scrounge money to buy
6:17
paint and stuff and recently i live in outside of savannah now
6:21
and savannah has a
6:22
SPEAKER_00: really big art school
6:24
called scad which is like savannah college of art and design
6:28
and i walked into like
6:29
their like their art supply store and the prices for like basic
6:34
like oil paints and
6:36
canvas is like quadrupled in the last 20 years since i was like
6:40
you know buying the
6:40
SPEAKER_00: stuff
6:41
and i'm like holy crap nobody can who can who can afford to to
6:45
to do this you know
6:46
it's like you're gonna be like rich to like afford canvas to
6:50
even paint you know
6:51
it's wild so i guess writing is the poor man's uh artistic
6:56
expression you know yeah
6:58
because yeah it was like 15 10 or 15 years ago i actually dated
7:02
a guy who like
7:03
graduated from scad and i remember like he was broke because he
7:06
was trying to make
7:07
SPEAKER_02: a living doing fine art and i remember one day for his
7:11
birthday his mom took him to like marshals or whatever those
7:15
like art stores and he
7:17
bought like a single to a paint for forty dollars and that was
7:21
like his birthday
7:22
SPEAKER_02: gift i was like i was like how do you
7:24
SPEAKER_02: how do you do anything?
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: That's what I used to be.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: I remember like I was like 19 and my mom and dad,
7:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
7:30
SPEAKER_00: okay,
7:31
SPEAKER_00: here's a,
7:32
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:32
SPEAKER_00: 40 bucks,
7:33
SPEAKER_00: 50 bucks to buy a bunch,
7:34
SPEAKER_00: go buy a bunch of paint.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, cool, man.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: I can buy a tube of white paint.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's going to be out in like a week if I like go to the studio class.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: You're writing, right?
7:47
SPEAKER_00: For most of what I've read,
7:49
has a horror element to it right uh you seem to be very
7:53
interested in horror um
7:56
science fiction kind of a a blend of like i don't know
8:01
psychoactive kind of twin
8:03
peaks like i don't know the best way to describe it right but
8:08
what would you say
8:09
that's true yeah that's true i feel like in recent years i'm
8:13
like trying to move
8:14
SPEAKER_02: away from horror but i still think i'm still really like
8:18
fascinated by like dark stuff like even like i i feel like girl
8:22
like a bomb still
8:23
has like horror elements elements in it and even like when i
8:26
was with my editor
8:26
because like we didn't want to we didn't want this to be like a
8:29
horror book like i
8:30
had to like scale back a lot of like the scenes because he's
8:34
like no they're too
8:36
they're too dark like no i i think i think it absolutely has a
8:41
horror element to it
8:43
SPEAKER_02: you know yeah because there was like a i guess i don't
8:47
want to give like spoilers or anything but there's like a a
8:50
couple scenes where
8:51
like the he's like the dust for too gory like you gotta like
8:54
tone it down a little
8:55
bit but i do think it is interesting how the horror community
8:58
like picked that book
8:59
up and like now that i now that i look at it to that lens i'm
9:02
like yeah it
9:03
SPEAKER_02: definitely has a like strain in it it's interesting because um
9:09
SPEAKER_00: I've read some of your short stories,
9:11
SPEAKER_00: and I read Girl Like Bomb,
9:12
SPEAKER_00: and it has a body horror element to it,
9:19
SPEAKER_00: you know?
9:19
SPEAKER_00: And you also wrote a story,
9:22
SPEAKER_00: and I'm sorry,
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember the title,
9:24
but it was the one about the woman that turns into like a swan
9:27
monster thing.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to think of the title.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:32
i think i call it i think it was a swan swan necks like swords
9:35
yes swan neck like
9:36
swords right which was a very straight and i've always thought
9:43
about like i i enjoy
9:44
horror and it's interesting because my wife also likes horror
9:49
she reads a lot of
9:50
SPEAKER_00: horror and when it comes to horror i've noticed that there's a
9:56
when it comes to like a male-female kind of divide when it
10:01
comes to horror is I've
10:03
SPEAKER_00: noticed that women,
10:04
SPEAKER_00: girls,
10:05
SPEAKER_00: women tend to prefer or tend to write body horror a lot more than men do.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: When the men does it, it tends to be like a homosexual man.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: For example, a lot of, um, what's his name?
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, road, road body horror, right?
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Um,
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And I always wondered, why is that?
10:23
SPEAKER_00: Why are women attracted to the body horror?
10:28
SPEAKER_00: And I think that,
10:30
SPEAKER_00: in my opinion,
10:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'm wrong,
10:31
I feel like women are more in tune with their bodies because
10:34
their bodies,
10:36
SPEAKER_00: and I say they as in yours,
10:37
SPEAKER_00: right?
10:38
SPEAKER_00: You're more aware of them.
10:40
I think young men don't think about their bodies at all until
10:43
they're older,
10:43
SPEAKER_00: until we start getting old and falling apart.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: But women tend to really...
10:49
you know,
10:49
you have a lot more physical changes in,
10:52
you know,
10:52
your early life.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of that.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Girl Like Bomb is definitely like a coming of age,
10:59
SPEAKER_00: body horror,
11:00
SPEAKER_00: empowerment story all in one,
11:02
SPEAKER_00: you know?
11:03
SPEAKER_00: And you think that's true at all?
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's, or maybe I'm just full of shit.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: I hadn't thought of that before,
11:10
SPEAKER_02: but like that totally like makes sense to me because I feel like,
11:17
SPEAKER_02: so I feel like both men and women
11:19
are like capable of like violence but like i feel like women's
11:22
violence is almost
11:23
like uh like entrance like uh interior and like self-inflicted
11:28
and like they're
11:28
always sort of like focused like inward and i feel like men
11:31
tend to be like focused
11:32
more outward and i think maybe like it's just because like yeah
11:36
there is so many
11:37
like bodily changes in women and that like you bear children so
11:41
it's almost like uh
11:43
SPEAKER_02: like your body is like a mystery to you in a sense of like
11:48
SPEAKER_02: there's like a thing that's like gestating and like you're creating life,
11:51
SPEAKER_02: but like also like it's not like,
11:55
SPEAKER_02: it's not like a thing that you control necessarily.
11:57
So that would make sense to me if like that women are more like
12:00
attracted to that thing.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: It's terrifying.
12:03
In a way,
12:06
it's the most beautiful thing,
12:08
but it's also the most terrifying thing.
12:10
I remember when my wife was pregnant with our daughter and it
12:16
was towards the end
12:17
SPEAKER_00: of the pregnancy and I would sit there on the bed and look at her and
12:20
SPEAKER_00: I could see,
12:21
SPEAKER_00: like,
12:22
SPEAKER_00: my daughter moving around inside and,
12:24
SPEAKER_00: like,
12:25
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:25
SPEAKER_00: those little lumps would form and stuff.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh, that's really cool.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
12:30
SPEAKER_00: somewhere in the back of my head,
12:32
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:32
SPEAKER_00: was,
12:32
SPEAKER_00: like,
12:33
SPEAKER_00: every horror movie with,
12:34
SPEAKER_00: like,
12:34
SPEAKER_00: some chestburster exploding at the same time.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's hard not to jump to that sort of –
12:42
SPEAKER_00: you know, image.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And I can't imagine.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: No.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: And that's probably like, that's probably like where the image came from.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Cause you're like,
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh,
12:50
what is this like beautiful life inside of me was actually like
12:54
a horrible alien.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: You don't know until it comes out.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:58
you know right so i mean i always i always think about it and
13:03
as a as a you know as
13:04
a male i don't you know i'll never have that experience right
13:10
and i can only
13:11
SPEAKER_00: imagine how um you know bizarre and terrifying a
13:19
SPEAKER_00: At the same time as great,
13:21
SPEAKER_00: the idea of carrying a life that's moving,
13:24
SPEAKER_00: breathing,
13:25
SPEAKER_00: has a heartbeat,
13:26
SPEAKER_00: and everything inside of you.
13:28
That conceptualization does not exist in a male brain thought
13:34
pattern almost.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: So I can see where there is a horror element to it.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess you have the same kind of thoughts about like –
13:47
hitting puberty and starting your period and stuff and your
13:50
body changing.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And I can see that being horrible.
13:55
There's definitely a psychological element that males don't
13:58
experience in their
14:00
SPEAKER_00: teenage years that girls do experience in their teenage years.
14:04
And maybe that's why you guys are attracted to weird body
14:07
horror compared to us.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: It's strange to me.
14:13
Because I always thought I liked horror because I had trauma or whatever.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: But I'm watching my daughter grow up.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: And I'll watch videos with her on YouTube.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: And lately she's been asking me to watch spooky stuff.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: She'll be like, I want to watch Halloween.
14:31
And I'm like,
14:31
why does she...
14:33
And she's also scared of it at the same time.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: I have to hold her while she's watching it.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: But then she's requesting to watch this stuff.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, why does...
14:41
Why does she want to watch things about ghosts and vampires and Halloween?
14:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't have an actual answer,
14:49
SPEAKER_02: but I think it's because women tend to be a little bit more neurotic.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: The joke about women to watch serial killer documentaries and stuff.
15:00
I think it's because we have to be more neurotic because we're
15:03
taking care of children.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: We have to be aware of danger.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: I think there's a part of us that's like, oh, I have to
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Pay attention and it's like dangerous.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, so like, she's like fascinated by like scary stuff.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: You know,
15:17
SPEAKER_00: some,
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I,
15:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:19
SPEAKER_00: I've told you,
15:19
SPEAKER_00: but all my listeners know I have a six year old daughter.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: She's almost seven and her entire life.
15:27
all she cares about is horror that that's that's her thing
15:31
that's all she's cared
15:32
about like horror um you know ghost scary stuff she likes you
15:38
know i let her watch
15:39
very inappropriate age inappropriate like monster stuff you
15:43
know like she watched
15:44
SPEAKER_00: the the the thing when she was like five you know and uh
15:50
SPEAKER_00: It's stuff that's scary,
15:51
SPEAKER_00: and every night we sit down and we read,
15:53
SPEAKER_00: and all her books are like,
15:54
all she ever picks out at Barnes & Noble or the book fair at
15:57
her school is horror.
16:00
She has all those ghosts in the attic freaking books and all
16:05
the goosebumps,
16:06
SPEAKER_00: and that's all she likes here.
16:08
And all she likes is Scooby-Doo because it's got ghosts in it
16:11
and monsters,
16:13
and I've watched Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island like 800 times
16:17
already because of her.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: And every night she wants a story, and it's always a horror story.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And she wants it scary.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: She wants it like, you know, murdery and violent.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all right there.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: But that's what she likes, you know.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to deny it.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: I was –
16:41
was always into like the more like romantic horror stuff you
16:44
know like i you know
16:45
growing up i like vampires like and rice stuff you know and you
16:50
know like lestat
16:51
and you know that that kind of stuff i never really liked the
16:55
yeah you know my wife
16:56
likes to torture like you know like human centipede and uh all
17:01
those torture porn
17:02
SPEAKER_00: movies like um
17:04
You know,
17:04
or like some serious,
17:05
like,
17:05
you know,
17:05
the Saw movies and stuff.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: I can't stand those.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, Rob Zombie.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: I have such a hard time watching those.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: Because I don't think they're scary.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: I think they're just, like, disgusting.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: They're, like, scary in, like, the stressful way.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: They, like, stress me out.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, even, like, you know, like, the Rob Zombie movies.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, the one with the clowns and stuff.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, oh, I hate these movies.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: But that's what my wife likes.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'm like you.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm more like a Anne Rice person in general.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:34
um so in your in your in your writing who you know what what
17:41
writers inspire you
17:42
like where do you get your inspiration what do you like you
17:45
know uh what kind of
17:47
stuff do you read um i i mean i try to read everything now i
17:54
like i always sort of
17:55
SPEAKER_02: like
17:56
I'll try to read like a current like book to something like
17:59
that's popular now.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: And then I'll try to read like a classic and just like alternate.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: So I'm always like trying to get like the breadth of human experience.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: Cause I know you'll never read everything.
18:09
But I guess when I was a kid,
18:10
I was like your daughter,
18:12
like I love the goosebumps books.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: And then I guess when I got like a more of a,
18:18
SPEAKER_02: when I was able to read more,
18:20
SPEAKER_02: I think one of the first books that like I read Bram Stoker,
18:25
SPEAKER_02: I really liked Ray Bradbury.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: I feel like almost every,
18:28
SPEAKER_02: like,
18:29
SPEAKER_02: horror,
18:29
SPEAKER_02: sci-fi writer of,
18:31
SPEAKER_02: like,
18:31
SPEAKER_02: my generation or older has,
18:32
SPEAKER_02: like,
18:33
SPEAKER_02: Ray Bradbury as,
18:34
SPEAKER_02: like,
18:34
SPEAKER_02: their inspiration.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: The one with the carnival.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: What was that one?
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, something wicked this way comes.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: And the autumn people or something like that.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: October people.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's... I couldn't remember the name.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: Dandelion Wine, which isn't really horror, but it's, like, a...
18:54
SPEAKER_00: It's like the same world.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like the same people.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: I really liked, I really like Philip K. Dick, like all of his stuff.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: He's probably like one of my favorites.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: I try to read everything that I can.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you like the Russians, like the 19th century Russian dudes?
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:15
They have like that,
19:16
that,
19:16
that like dark stoic,
19:19
like romanticism and like this,
19:23
SPEAKER_02: The realism, it's just, I don't know, it hits me in a particular way.
19:26
Right,
19:26
the whole misery,
19:27
depression,
19:29
alcoholism kind of blend all together.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So are you a Dostoevsky or a Tolstoy person?
19:33
SPEAKER_00: I think people tend to be either or.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: I think I like Dostoevsky more than that.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: All right, so you're in my club.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm a Dostoevsky fan.
19:44
I was listening to,
19:45
like,
19:45
the Brett Easton Ellis podcast,
19:47
and he's a Tolstoy guy.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, I don't know, man.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't like you anymore because of that.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, but it's interesting.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: It's been such a long time since I've read Tolstoy.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: I can't even really, like, say.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: But,
19:59
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
19:59
SPEAKER_02: I recently re-read the Brothers Karamazov,
20:02
SPEAKER_02: and I'm just like,
20:04
SPEAKER_02: like,
20:04
SPEAKER_02: why has anyone else tried to write anything?
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of how I feel.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: I've read it.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: I've read it twice.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you know, what's interesting about that novel.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: I read it originally when I was like 18 and I,
20:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:17
SPEAKER_00: this was in my like angry atheist mad at the world phase.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: And I identified with Ivan completely, you know, like I was an Ivan guy.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, Ivan's right about everything, you know, and, uh,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: You know,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: I reread it a few years ago after my daughter was born,
20:37
SPEAKER_00: and I was,
20:38
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:39
SPEAKER_00: in a plane,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: and,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: I just had this,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: realization that,
20:42
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:42
SPEAKER_00: oh,
20:42
SPEAKER_00: my God,
20:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm,
20:43
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Dimitri,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: crap,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: my life,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm turning,
20:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm about to turn 40.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: This was, like, a few years ago.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm already 40 now.
20:49
And I was,
20:50
like,
20:50
oh,
20:51
my God,
20:51
I'm Dimitri,
20:53
and,
20:53
like,
20:53
I should probably go to church.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
20:57
And I felt like a completely different connection to that novel
21:01
the second time around.
21:03
And I wonder if I read it in 10 more years,
21:06
I'll have a different perspective on it.
21:07
I actually bought the new translation last year and it's like
21:11
sitting on my desk.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: I haven't gone around to it.
21:13
I've been trying to get my wife to read it,
21:14
but I guess you have to come to it on your own.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, so one thing that...
21:23
SPEAKER_00: You used to live in San Diego.
21:25
You've moved around a lot,
21:26
I've noticed,
21:27
from your Substack and everything.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing it seems like you moved to a smaller town.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: You've abandoned the big little city of San Diego.
21:38
And one of the latest kind of developments is that you've
21:44
become a lot more spiritual,
21:46
SPEAKER_00: more religious in your outlook on life,
21:49
SPEAKER_00: right?
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Like I think your latest post was –
21:52
SPEAKER_00: kind of a rejection of prior atheism.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: I have found that very interesting.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: I found a lot of your posts interesting.
21:59
And the reason I say that is because I've had a very similar
22:04
kind of experience
22:05
SPEAKER_00: myself in the last five to eight years.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And I find it interesting.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And is that affecting your writing at all or changing?
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, let me roll back briefly.
22:15
because i'm kind of rushing through it the biggest change in
22:19
your life what i've
22:20
noticed is that you've had a child right you've become a mother
22:22
when i would say
22:23
that that's probably the defining thing because yeah becoming a
22:28
dad completely
22:29
changed my life so how does that has that changed your approach
22:31
to writing you know
22:32
SPEAKER_02: uh being a parent yeah um
22:39
So it's hard to say,
22:40
like,
22:40
I haven't started a new project since she was born.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: So, like, I started a novel, like, when I was pregnant.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: And then, like, I just finished it, like, a couple weeks ago.
22:51
So it's,
22:53
like,
22:54
I'm interested to see,
22:55
like,
22:55
kind of,
22:55
like,
22:55
how different ideas will develop.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: Because I've just been working on this, like, same idea.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: I think I've had to, like, be a lot more resilient.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Because, like, just in the writing, like, process.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, I used to be, like, very precious.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I can only write at this time and with these things.
23:14
But I had to toughen up and learn how to write in different
23:19
environments and just
23:21
SPEAKER_02: be more resourceful.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: How do you find the time, you know?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And I gotta say, it's impressive because, like, you know, I'm a dad.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: And I... By just default, okay?
23:36
As a parent,
23:38
as a father,
23:39
we spend less time with our kids than mothers do.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: It's just, like, you know, you can't really help it.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Especially in,
23:46
SPEAKER_00: like...
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I remember,
23:47
SPEAKER_00: like,
23:47
SPEAKER_00: the first few years of my daughter's life,
23:50
SPEAKER_00: like,
23:51
SPEAKER_00: she was attached to my wife,
23:52
SPEAKER_00: like...
23:54
you know she would not move anywhere without her and um i feel
24:00
like i don't have
24:01
any time to write and i can imagine like you know a mom having
24:07
time like when when
24:08
do you sleep you know what i mean like yeah yeah i actually was
24:13
reading an
24:14
interview i can't remember the name of the woman but she got
24:17
offended because like
24:18
SPEAKER_02: the interviewer asked her like how do you find time to write like it's a
24:22
Like,
24:22
as a mom,
24:24
and she was like,
24:25
you never ask,
24:26
like,
24:26
the male writers that question.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, because it's not interesting.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, let's be real.
24:30
Like,
24:31
if a man,
24:31
it's like,
24:32
you don't ask a dad how he finds time to write.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, the mom is looking after the kid.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's the end of the story there.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's like, I had the same experience with your wife.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, she was, like, completely attached to me.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, dad did not exist, like, for the first two years.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, he didn't matter.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: He didn't matter to her, like, at all.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: But you just...
24:53
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
24:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
24:53
SPEAKER_02: I just would,
24:54
SPEAKER_02: like,
24:55
SPEAKER_02: nap time,
24:56
SPEAKER_02: or,
24:56
SPEAKER_02: like,
24:56
SPEAKER_02: she would be,
24:57
SPEAKER_02: like,
24:57
SPEAKER_02: sitting in my lap,
24:59
SPEAKER_02: or,
24:59
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:00
SPEAKER_02: I found a gym with a daycare,
25:02
SPEAKER_02: so,
25:02
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:02
SPEAKER_02: I would go,
25:03
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:03
SPEAKER_02: I would,
25:04
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:04
SPEAKER_02: write in between my,
25:05
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:05
SPEAKER_02: sets of the gym,
25:06
SPEAKER_02: or,
25:06
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:06
SPEAKER_02: on the treadmill,
25:07
SPEAKER_02: and then I actually moved back to Oklahoma,
25:09
SPEAKER_02: because,
25:10
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:10
SPEAKER_02: family was here,
25:11
SPEAKER_02: so,
25:11
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:11
SPEAKER_02: her aunt,
25:12
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:12
SPEAKER_02: and her grandma,
25:13
SPEAKER_02: like,
25:14
SPEAKER_02: But it's a lot of having to just switch up tactics.
25:19
Every time she goes through some developmental leap,
25:22
I'll have to change how I find the time.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: My wife,
25:29
SPEAKER_00: when my daughter was born,
25:34
SPEAKER_00: we decided that we were not going to do any of that sleep training stuff.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: This is an issue that I have a feeling that if I...
25:43
SPEAKER_00: I can talk about Brit being like pro all kinds of political stuff and,
25:48
SPEAKER_00: uh,
25:48
SPEAKER_00: uh,
25:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
25:50
SPEAKER_00: take any side politically.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: But if I,
25:52
SPEAKER_00: if I talk about child raising and mentioned like,
25:54
SPEAKER_00: uh,
25:55
SPEAKER_00: uh,
25:55
SPEAKER_00: attachment parenting or,
25:57
SPEAKER_00: or sleep training or what to feed your kids or whatever,
26:00
SPEAKER_00: I will get the most haters,
26:02
SPEAKER_00: the most hateful haters on the face of the planet.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Cause there's nothing worse than the internet when it comes except like,
26:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:08
SPEAKER_00: mom blogs and that kind of stuff.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: So, um,
26:10
SPEAKER_00: I will not take any official side on anything.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: It's super contentious,
26:15
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
26:16
SPEAKER_02: because it's like nobody wants to think they're messing their kids up,
26:20
SPEAKER_00: right?
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: It's just like you read any blogs or anything and you're like,
26:27
SPEAKER_00: oh my God,
26:28
SPEAKER_00: some of the most hateful,
26:29
SPEAKER_00: angry people on this universe are into this stuff.
26:34
and so we you know we we decided not to do you know sleep
26:38
training or anything like
26:39
that so you know my wife did not sleep for like the first like
26:42
four years of her
26:43
life you know now my daughter's an amazing sleeper like i tell
26:46
her a story and she
26:47
passes out you know um but her first few years it was like when
26:51
we put her to bed
26:53
we'd come downstairs and she'd wake up so we have to go get her
26:56
and come back and
26:57
SPEAKER_00: do all this stuff and like
26:59
SPEAKER_00: It was a nightmare,
27:00
SPEAKER_00: and I can't imagine,
27:01
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:01
SPEAKER_00: I could barely write,
27:02
SPEAKER_00: let alone,
27:03
SPEAKER_00: like,
27:03
SPEAKER_00: my wife writing,
27:04
SPEAKER_00: and she was a freaking hero for doing all that.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it gets better.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Your kid's much younger,
27:11
SPEAKER_00: but now she's in school,
27:14
SPEAKER_00: and she's at dance class right now,
27:16
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:16
SPEAKER_00: so she's doing that.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: So I have a lot more free time, but I'm still tired, man.
27:23
I'm still tired,
27:24
you know,
27:24
because she'll be back,
27:25
and I got to put her to bed.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I got to, you know, give her...
27:27
Help her out to take a shower and brush her teeth together
27:30
because she has routines
27:31
SPEAKER_00: where I got to brush my teeth with her and all this stuff.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Not to mention 10 hours of regular life work.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's tough.
27:39
So I'm impressed by anybody that can juggle parenthood and
27:43
writing or any hobby or
27:48
SPEAKER_00: artistic profession outside of parenting.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: So definitely.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: But has it changed the way you actually look at your work at all?
27:58
yeah that's i'm not sure like i'm not sure like i'll be able to
28:03
answer that
28:04
question until like a couple years from now because i feel like
28:08
i've gone through
28:09
some like fundamental like transformation like i feel like i
28:12
went through the fire
28:13
um because i i didn't sleep train either um like i don't think
28:18
that's real but like
28:20
i don't want to get into it i don't want to bore people that
28:22
like don't care about
28:23
SPEAKER_02: that stuff um like but um
28:28
SPEAKER_02: I forgot.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: I lost my train of thought.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: What were we talking about?
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Your perspective on your work.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
28:42
I feel like I understand more about people and there's more
28:48
dimensionality to the
28:51
SPEAKER_02: way that I understand things.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's translated to my writing yet, but
28:57
SPEAKER_02: It might at some point when I work on a new project.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Are you,
29:02
SPEAKER_00: like,
29:03
SPEAKER_00: afraid at all of,
29:04
SPEAKER_00: like,
29:04
SPEAKER_00: your daughter growing up and reading your stuff and being like,
29:07
SPEAKER_00: what the hell are you,
29:09
SPEAKER_00: mom?
29:09
SPEAKER_00: What the hell are you writing about here?
29:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
29:14
I haven't really,
29:18
like – I feel like she wouldn't be interested,
29:20
but maybe I'm wrong.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: You know,
29:25
SPEAKER_00: I think about her all the time,
29:26
SPEAKER_00: but realistically,
29:28
SPEAKER_00: my daughter would probably be like,
29:29
SPEAKER_00: oh,
29:30
SPEAKER_00: you're right,
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Dad?
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's cool.
29:33
yeah yeah i feel like that would be it but maybe maybe she'll
29:35
be really into books
29:37
i don't know like but to a certain degree it's like the
29:41
scariest person i don't
29:43
care about anybody else reading my stuff or coming across you
29:46
know these podcasts
29:48
SPEAKER_00: and my daughter listens to and i'm like oh my god i'm embarrassed of my
29:51
six-year-old you know it's or she'll be like a teenager by the
29:55
time she finds this
29:56
SPEAKER_02: stuff you know i feel like i feel like kids are always like a
30:02
because like it's almost like the older version of yourself
30:05
because like it's like
30:07
when you look back at yourself from 10 years ago and you're
30:09
just like what was I
30:10
even thinking like it doesn't like what was I wearing like it's
30:13
the same I feel
30:14
like it's the same thing so I'm just like no matter what I feel
30:16
like she's gonna be
30:16
SPEAKER_02: like a little embarrassed yeah
30:19
by me i don't know you know and it's interesting i was thinking
30:22
about that like in
30:23
you know young people because i'm i'm i'm turning 42 this week
30:28
you know like on
30:28
friday i'll be 42 which is crazy um but at the height of my uh
30:35
teenage early 20s
30:37
like degeneracy you know it was before cell phone cameras and
30:42
before really before
30:44
SPEAKER_00: social media exist existed like
30:47
SPEAKER_00: We had MySpace and like LiveJournal and stuff,
30:49
SPEAKER_00: but we didn't really have like the constant photography,
30:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:53
SPEAKER_00: pictures and stuff.
30:55
So all the cringe ass like haircuts and goth club outfits I
31:01
used to wear are not
31:03
SPEAKER_00: well documented.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And when they are documented, they're like,
31:06
in like a friend's album or something like that and sometimes
31:09
they'll like they'll
31:10
like scan a picture with their phone and send it to me i'm like
31:14
fuck dude delete
31:15
that don't ever show that to anybody i mean i feel like i guess
31:20
the benefit of like
31:21
if everyone is cringe and nobody is cringe that's true like if
31:25
like if all of our
31:27
SPEAKER_02: bad like moments are online it doesn't really matter i don't know
31:32
SPEAKER_00: That's probably like this newer generation,
31:34
SPEAKER_00: like,
31:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
31:34
SPEAKER_00: these Gen Z kids and stuff and younger.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: They're all online from the time they're like five doing annoying shit.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: So like,
31:41
SPEAKER_00: they're all embarrassed,
31:42
SPEAKER_00: like as a generation,
31:44
SPEAKER_00: as opposed to,
31:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
31:46
SPEAKER_00: finding people like pictures of people with like a...
31:49
fucking i had an undercut and i used to dye my hair like blue
31:52
black all the time
31:52
and it was just the most embarrassing shit when i look back at
31:55
it and i'm like oh
31:56
my god i went out in public wearing girl pants you know and
31:59
it's just like oh my
32:01
god i'm wearing my girlfriend's pants in every picture and it's
32:03
like really bad but
32:05
like i said in a different episode all the scenesters and
32:08
hipsters and wannabe
32:09
SPEAKER_00: goths today they don't know the struggle of growing up
32:12
And trying to be like into like goth and,
32:14
you know,
32:15
new wave and like a death rock and stuff.
32:18
In my generation where pipes and baggy clothes were like the
32:22
standard and the
32:23
SPEAKER_00: tightest pants you could find were like JNCO jeans.
32:26
So you had to,
32:27
you know,
32:28
wear your girlfriend's pants if you want a tight pants,
32:30
you know.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sorry, guys.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: I had to.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you had to like, you had to be, I can't even see the word.
32:40
let's have some ingenuity there like yeah there was no skinny
32:43
jeans when i was a
32:43
fucking teenager and it was like all baggy clothes it was like
32:47
a different era um
32:49
so why uh why leave san diego and go back to oklahoma did that
32:53
change your
32:54
perspective on life and stuff that was so long ago let me think
32:59
what happened so i
33:01
was i moved several times since so like i was in san diego and
33:05
um my husband had
33:06
SPEAKER_02: just started like a
33:08
company and it was like work from home like before uh COVID so
33:12
we're like at the
33:13
time my grandparents were like not the best selves and it just
33:16
felt like we should
33:18
like be there and take care of them so like we took care of
33:20
them for a little bit
33:22
and then they got like hospice care and then moved to Austin
33:25
and then we went to
33:26
Austin and then had the baby um and I'm like this is actually
33:31
before you have the
33:32
baby like you don't like people were always like oh you need a
33:34
support system you
33:35
SPEAKER_02: need a support system and I'm like I've never really like had
33:39
that like around me so i'm just like whatever it doesn't matter
33:42
but then it's like
33:42
when you're like they're taking care of baby or something like
33:45
okay it actually
33:45
does matter so then we ended up moving back to oklahoma so so
33:53
you move closer to
33:54
family yeah it was we we had kind of a similar story we
33:59
actually my daughter was
34:00
SPEAKER_00: born in japan i was living in tokyo at the time
34:03
SPEAKER_00: And we're like, oh, that should be fine.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: And then it wasn't.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, my God.
34:07
It's impossible to have a kid in a foreign country without any
34:12
friends or anybody near.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: So we're like, all right, let's go back to California.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: So we moved back to Los Angeles for a little bit.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: And then we realized our family sucks.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: We ended up just moving across the country.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: But I loved San Diego.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: I lived in San Diego for only a brief time, a little bit over a year.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: And I enjoyed my time in San Diego.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: I was there in 2016, 2015, 2016 timeframe.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: I lived in University Heights, if you're familiar with that area.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: No, I can't.
34:49
i live like near la mesa okay but i was only there for like a
34:53
year yeah you know
34:55
where la mesa was like where the mall and shit is right like
34:57
all that stuff yeah
34:59
kind of in the valley university heights was like in the hills
35:01
above la mesa like
35:03
up like the hill okay and it was like where like the lift stats
35:07
coffee shop was and
35:08
i lived right across the street from oh yeah i know i totally
35:11
went there and i used
35:13
SPEAKER_00: to live like in a little apartment right across and like
35:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I step over bums and shit to go get coffee.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And then I go back, step over the same bums to go get coffee, you know.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: And there's some great bars and stuff.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, COVID really fucked that place up, man.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: I went there.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that, if I remember correctly, like, that's when you moved, right?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I moved to Japan around that time.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: And then I came back to Los Angeles,
35:41
SPEAKER_00: and I went down to San Diego to visit a friend that moved to La Jolla.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: And she's not rich.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: She just moved to La Jolla.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: And it was so different after COVID.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: I went back there at the end of COVID,
35:58
SPEAKER_00: and all the bars I used to go to,
36:00
SPEAKER_00: like small bar,
36:02
SPEAKER_00: and all the little venues were gone.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: They died during COVID.
36:06
and all the restaurants were gone and i was like man this this
36:10
sucks like it's
36:11
horrible like how how that like the whole thing like killed all
36:16
the good stuff in
36:17
that city you know and like the homeless like crowd quadrupled
36:22
in the years i was
36:23
gone and i was just like it didn't get as bad as los angeles
36:26
los angeles is bad now
36:28
SPEAKER_00: like a few years before i moved to south carolina it was just like
36:32
you drive down the one-on-one freeway and there's just like
36:35
homeless encampments
36:36
everywhere but San Diego was like kind of like it was like the
36:40
best of Los Angeles
36:42
without all the bad parts of Los Angeles and then now it's like
36:45
catching up to
36:46
being kind of as shitty as it's just as expensive now too so
36:49
it's pretty pretty
36:51
wild it's like unaffordable for anybody that doesn't make a
36:54
billion dollars a year
36:55
SPEAKER_02: but yeah yeah I think it would I would
36:59
like to live there again if it wasn't in california right right
37:03
like i love going
37:04
SPEAKER_02: to the beach and like just out the weather and everything
37:07
SPEAKER_00: You know what I miss from San Diego?
37:09
I miss,
37:09
did you ever go to Fiesta Island,
37:11
like the big giant dog beach park thing?
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I used to take my dogs there.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: That was my favorite thing.
37:16
I used to take my dog to Fiesta Island all the time and just
37:19
let her run around in
37:20
SPEAKER_00: the water and stuff.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: And I miss that.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I miss the weather in California.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I've been to Oklahoma.
37:28
When I moved to South Carolina,
37:30
we drove from Los Angeles all the way here.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: And we stayed in Oklahoma City for one night.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: And I was surprised how much I liked Oklahoma City.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: I was like, whoa, this is actually kind of a cool little downtown area.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: And it had a really cool vibe.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: So I got to enjoy Oklahoma for one night.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of family that decided to make Oklahoma their home.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: So it seems to be a pretty cool state.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: I think people are like,
38:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what they're expecting,
38:03
SPEAKER_02: like the hills have eyes or something,
38:05
SPEAKER_02: the way they talk about it.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, they do have some like decent towns and cities.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, some of it's like hills have eyes.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: There's definitely like cannibals out there that'll do it.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: You guys have the barbed wire museum.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: I remember driving by it.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's in Arkansas.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember that.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: It might be.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: But I thought Oklahoma City was cool.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I lived there.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit too flat for me.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: I tend to like either oceans or mountains and stuff, you know?
38:36
I thought the South was going to be like cannibals and like
38:39
banjos and stuff down
38:40
SPEAKER_00: here in South Carolina.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: And I got out of the car and I'm in freaking Orange County.
38:44
like it's like golf courses and like rich people and like i was
38:47
like cool that's
38:49
not what i expected man i expected like you know hillbillies
38:53
and confederate flags
38:54
and all this stuff and it's like bougie rich people and like so
38:58
yeah everything is
38:59
like the same now i think people are expecting some kind of
39:04
like i don't know yeah
39:08
SPEAKER_02: some kind of hellhole
39:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's hell holes in this country for sure.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Just not like Oklahoma City.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Memphis, Tennessee.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: I drove through that.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a hell hole.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Most of the desert towns in California,
39:25
like Victorville and Blythe and all those places east of San
39:29
Diego are pretty
39:30
SPEAKER_00: terrifying if you are out there at night.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
39:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:37
parts of los angeles you know to go back to writing because i
39:41
know you're kind of
39:42
in a hurry i want to kind of wrap it up i want to talk about
39:45
more you know one
39:47
theme you have in your in your newsletter is kind of your
39:54
change between like kind
39:56
of like your self-personification of as an artist right there
40:01
there's like an
40:02
SPEAKER_00: element that
40:03
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:04
SPEAKER_00: artists have artists and by artists,
40:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean writers,
40:06
SPEAKER_00: musicians,
40:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:07
SPEAKER_00: anybody has outsiders as kind of a,
40:10
SPEAKER_00: in a way degenerates where you,
40:12
SPEAKER_00: you,
40:13
SPEAKER_00: you take a self-destructive kind of view,
40:16
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:17
SPEAKER_00: like,
40:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:17
SPEAKER_00: drugs and alcohol and like being a bum kind of thing,
40:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:22
SPEAKER_00: and,
40:22
SPEAKER_00: uh,
40:23
SPEAKER_00: suffering,
40:23
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:24
SPEAKER_00: and,
40:24
SPEAKER_00: um,
40:26
SPEAKER_00: And you kind of write about that a lot.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: And you've written about it,
40:30
SPEAKER_00: how like,
40:31
that's an unnecessary kind of mindset that you've learned to
40:34
kind of leave behind.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: And I, I have a hard time with that, right?
40:41
SPEAKER_00: What I mean by I have a hard time is that like, I've had my kind of
40:46
persona not persona but self image of just being a depressed
40:53
sad kind of you know
40:56
kind of person you know and uh you know after getting married
41:00
and having a child
41:01
SPEAKER_00: and everything i i
41:03
SPEAKER_00: my self persona kind of clashes with the reality of my life now.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Cause like I'm happy, you know, I'm happy.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I'm unhappy because I'm happy if that makes sense.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: And how do you deal with that?
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you, how do you like approach that?
41:18
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say I'm like have it perfectly down.
41:23
Cause I still like,
41:24
I find the idea of suffering like very appealing and like romantic.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think it is like sort of idolized by a lot of people.
41:33
and I'm familiar with it so it's like it's almost like that's
41:37
something that's like
41:38
hard to explain to like people that are happy is that like the
41:41
depression can be
41:42
like almost like a comfort blanket and when you're happy you're
41:45
like this feels
41:46
weird like this is unfamiliar like I don't even know if I like
41:49
it like I feel like
41:50
I should but I think what I tell myself is like okay like as an
41:56
artist like what I
41:57
want to do is to like sort of push the boundaries of like human
42:01
experience and like
42:03
SPEAKER_02: to, like, discover things that haven't been discovered before.
42:06
And it's,
42:06
like,
42:06
I feel like suffering is,
42:07
like,
42:07
a very,
42:08
like,
42:08
well-trained problem.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: It's,
42:09
SPEAKER_02: like,
42:10
SPEAKER_02: just the,
42:11
SPEAKER_02: like,
42:12
SPEAKER_02: the suffering artist,
42:13
SPEAKER_02: the,
42:13
SPEAKER_02: like,
42:13
SPEAKER_02: depressed,
42:14
SPEAKER_02: like,
42:14
SPEAKER_02: sad person who,
42:15
SPEAKER_02: like,
42:15
SPEAKER_02: dies alone,
42:15
SPEAKER_02: like,
42:17
SPEAKER_02: It's like, we already know where that goes.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no mystery there.
42:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no, there's nothing to like find or discover.
42:24
SPEAKER_02: It was like,
42:25
SPEAKER_02: even like in myself where I'm like,
42:26
SPEAKER_02: oh,
42:26
like I'm being pulled by this like romantic idea of like
42:30
darkness and chaos.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And I have to sort of like,
42:34
SPEAKER_02: like smack myself like upside head and be like,
42:37
SPEAKER_02: there's nothing there.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: That is a lie.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: Like it all just leads to death.
42:41
Like there's nothing like that you're gonna like sift through
42:45
all that and find like something
42:47
SPEAKER_02: like special.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Like that's what I tell myself anyways.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: It's such a, such an interesting thing.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Cause my, my wife always picks on me.
42:56
She's like,
42:57
she's like,
42:57
damn it,
42:57
Alex,
42:58
you just,
42:59
you're happy and unhappiness,
43:01
you know?
43:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh no, but yes.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: But, and I feel like guilty.
43:07
Like,
43:07
I feel like I've abandoned,
43:09
you know,
43:09
and I'm not,
43:11
you know,
43:12
it's,
43:12
it's.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: And one thing I,
43:16
i noticed right over the years is that a lot of the people that
43:20
i used to know that
43:21
i used to think were really really interesting um doing drugs
43:27
and that kind of
43:28
stuff that i used to hang out with it they didn't turn out very
43:31
well you know they
43:32
didn't create anything interesting they just they just kind of
43:36
died for the most
43:37
SPEAKER_02: part yeah i had the same yeah i know the same i have the same spirits yep
43:42
SPEAKER_00: Or they burnt out and have become boring.
43:46
There's that thing about when you're 25 and you're going bar
43:51
hopping every night
43:52
and just living that punk rock bum life where you're just
43:55
drinking every night and
43:56
SPEAKER_00: staying up until the break of dawn drinking cheap beer.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And then eventually you turn 40 and you're just a loser at that point,
44:03
SPEAKER_00: doing the same exact thing.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: And there's days when I'm just like, God, I wish I could do that again.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: I wish I could just...
44:10
not you know have to put my daughter to sleep and drive her to
44:13
school in the
44:14
morning and you know you know make breakfast for everybody and
44:19
come home and cook
44:19
dinner and that kind of stuff i just want to like just go on a
44:23
rager for like
44:25
fucking two weeks like i used to you know and yeah but then i'm
44:29
like no no that'd
44:31
be fucking horrible you know what i mean like but there's that
44:34
fear that like what
44:35
if i i'm not cool what if i can't write anymore because of that
44:38
what if i can't
44:40
SPEAKER_00: You know,
44:40
what if I'm just like the old guy that's talking about back in
44:43
the day when I used to,
44:44
SPEAKER_00: you know what I mean?
44:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of scary, right?
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've tried to like, because I used to have that like,
44:54
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, my headphones.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: Can you say something real quick?
44:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can hear you fine.
44:59
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, you're fine.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: It's like,
45:02
SPEAKER_02: I used to be one of those writers who like,
45:03
SPEAKER_02: oh,
45:03
SPEAKER_02: I can only write like when I'm sad,
45:05
SPEAKER_02: but I sort of like transitioned out of that.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: And then when I have friends that talk about it,
45:09
SPEAKER_02: and they're like scared of like being happy,
45:11
SPEAKER_02: because they feel like they can't write what I explained is like,
45:15
SPEAKER_02: when you're,
45:16
SPEAKER_02: you sort of,
45:17
SPEAKER_02: I sort of like try to approach it from like,
45:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm,
45:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm like a person like there's multiple
45:24
like personas inside of me and I'm the one observing them all
45:27
and like I can like I
45:29
can still tap into rage I can still tap into like deep sadness
45:33
but I'm not like
45:34
lost in them and I think when you're so it's like I can pull
45:39
out I can see what it
45:40
is and then it's like but I think when you're like oh I can
45:42
only write when I'm sad
45:43
SPEAKER_02: you're like stuck in the sadness and you can't like see beyond your like
45:47
SPEAKER_02: perspective so I I do feel like
45:52
SPEAKER_02: if you can like sort of like retrain yourself to like not be like,
45:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh,
45:56
when I'm only feeling like an intense negative emotion is like
45:59
when I'm creative is like,
46:00
SPEAKER_02: you're at,
46:00
SPEAKER_02: you actually like become more creative.
46:03
Cause you can like pull in and out of it and like see it like
46:06
for what it is.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
46:10
And you know,
46:10
I,
46:11
I've noticed in the last maybe five years or so,
46:15
there's a trend in,
46:17
SPEAKER_00: more mainstream literary fiction,
46:19
SPEAKER_00: even in like indie literary fiction of,
46:22
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:23
SPEAKER_00: auto fiction,
46:24
SPEAKER_00: right?
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And it seems like the real popular stuff right now is,
46:27
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:28
stuff like What's Her Name's novel that everybody in New York
46:33
liked for like a minute.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh,
46:35
just the whole auto fiction trend or stuff like delicious tacos
46:39
writing about his
46:40
SPEAKER_00: drinking and sleeping around.
46:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: And, uh, what was that girl's name?
46:44
SPEAKER_00: God, we talked about her like a bunch of times on the podcast.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Um,
46:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:48
like the internet autofiction kind of craze and it's
46:51
everybody's like lived
46:53
SPEAKER_00: experience made into like,
46:55
SPEAKER_00: people are just basically publishing their blogs.
46:58
And it's interesting because like that seems to be a very
47:01
younger person and some
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Gen Xers writing that kind of stuff.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Do you find the autofiction stuff interesting?
47:11
SPEAKER_01: No.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean...
47:16
no i don't i don't like it i guess it's like i guess because i
47:22
how do i even
47:23
describe it i i just think it's a like it's sort of almost like
47:30
transcribing things
47:31
without any kind of like self-awareness most of the time and i
47:36
don't i don't think
47:37
like the things that happen are as interesting as like
47:42
understanding what happened
47:43
SPEAKER_02: or like
47:44
I think fiction a lot of times is,
47:46
like,
47:46
more true than,
47:47
like,
47:47
autofiction.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: Even you're, like, this is a thing that really happened.
47:51
But,
47:51
like,
47:52
you can't explain,
47:53
like,
47:53
why it matters or,
47:54
like,
47:55
why it's interesting.
47:57
Or,
47:57
like,
47:57
it's not just interesting because it,
47:58
like,
47:58
happened to you,
47:59
if that makes sense.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, I'm thinking of Honor Levy.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm thinking of.
48:08
SPEAKER_02: That's, like, the... Yeah, I haven't read her, but...
48:14
i read it because i you know i i tell myself like i should read
48:18
everything that's
48:18
new and like people are talking about because i kind of want to
48:20
like keep up with
48:21
the shit you know and i i didn't love it i mean there's a lot
48:25
of really she has
48:25
SPEAKER_00: great potential she's really young right and uh
48:28
SPEAKER_00: it reads like if somebody published my live journals from like 2002,
48:33
SPEAKER_00: which is,
48:34
SPEAKER_00: that's what it reads like,
48:35
SPEAKER_00: you know?
48:37
SPEAKER_00: But it's, it's interesting.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: Like,
48:39
do you think that a writer should have life experience or can
48:45
you be like one of
48:46
SPEAKER_00: those like shut-ins like that's never experienced anything and just like,
48:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:50
SPEAKER_00: everything is pure imagination,
48:52
SPEAKER_00: you know?
48:53
SPEAKER_00: It's a kind of an interesting thing that I always think about.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: Like,
48:56
yeah i mean i guess i mean i guess you have like examples of
48:59
like both the extremes
49:01
right like doing of like writing great stuff like you have like
49:06
hp lovecraft as far
49:07
as i knew he was like pretty like reclusive like a shut-in yeah
49:12
yeah and then you
49:12
have like you know like hemmingway right but could dostosky be
49:17
dostosky if he
49:18
didn't go to siberia and live in the gulag yeah right like
49:22
probably not but
49:24
SPEAKER_02: I do think that if you have the same life,
49:26
I feel like there's a sort of trajectory that a lot of writers
49:29
take and then it's
49:30
like your writing kind of ends up sounding the same because you
49:33
do all the same things.
49:34
SPEAKER_02: So it's like if you want to be different,
49:37
SPEAKER_02: I guess,
49:39
SPEAKER_02: have a different life experience,
49:40
SPEAKER_02: either be like a shut in or go to Siberia.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to go to Siberia at all.
49:49
I have no desire to be sent to a gulag or a concentration camp
49:53
or anything like that.
49:55
What's interesting is that when it comes to writing or the art
49:59
forms in general,
50:01
SPEAKER_00: to me it always seems that like
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Music tends to be a very young man's game for the most part.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: Most bands and that kind of stuff tend to almost peak in their 20s.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Their best albums are in this eclectic, raw 20s.
50:24
And there's tons of bands and musicians that last well into
50:28
their 40s and 50s,
50:29
or even 60s.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Nick Cave, for example, is one of my favorite musicians.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: He's knocking out stuff every year.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: But it's not the same.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: His artistic peak was in his early era.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: Now it's more eclectic, more weird, and that kind of stuff.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like authors tend to peak in their 40s and 50s.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: So maybe...
50:53
novel writing or you know fiction writing is is a a middle life
50:59
kind of genre you
51:00
know like i don't know that's what i tell myself it makes me
51:03
feel better i think it
51:07
is like a lot of it's like life experience because it's like to
51:10
write a good story
51:11
you need to like understand like what's happening it's also
51:14
like there's no there's
51:15
SPEAKER_02: no like writing prodigies right like there's no like
51:19
SPEAKER_02: there's no like three-year-olds that can write like Tolstoy.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: Like there's three-year-olds that like can play the violin, like amazing.
51:26
SPEAKER_02: It's just like,
51:27
SPEAKER_02: I think it's just like a very,
51:29
SPEAKER_02: it's like deceptive because it's like anyone can like write out a story,
51:33
SPEAKER_02: but it's actually like very difficult to like do it well.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: Right.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: Like,
51:37
SPEAKER_00: cause like the,
51:38
SPEAKER_00: the technical aspects of the story,
51:39
SPEAKER_00: like,
51:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
51:40
SPEAKER_00: I've met people that I've,
51:42
SPEAKER_00: I've found to be fantastic technical writers.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: They have great grasp of language and everything.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: but they have nothing to say.
51:49
You know,
51:50
when they actually sit down and write something,
51:52
I'm like,
51:53
there's just nothing there.
51:54
There's,
51:54
you know,
51:55
and then I've met like shittier writers that have a lot to say.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, there's something there.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: The technique might not be great.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: Your grammar and your,
52:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
52:04
SPEAKER_00: your eloquence is lacking and,
52:06
SPEAKER_00: you know,
52:06
SPEAKER_00: with some practice you can fix this.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like,
52:08
SPEAKER_00: you know,
52:09
SPEAKER_00: if you have nothing to say,
52:10
SPEAKER_00: you know,
52:11
SPEAKER_00: there's just,
52:11
SPEAKER_00: it's not interesting,
52:13
SPEAKER_00: you know.
52:14
What you see a lot in genre fiction,
52:15
you have people writing like fantastic,
52:17
like,
52:18
technically fantastic like you know but it ends up being like
52:21
lovecraftian pastiche
52:22
or whatever and it's like well you're not saying anything that
52:25
lovecraft hasn't
52:26
said already or you know whoever hasn't said already so maybe
52:30
maybe there is
52:30
something to that you know um we're gonna run out of time soon
52:34
i just want a few
52:35
more questions for you you wrote a cool series about monsters
52:39
on uh teach robots to
52:41
SPEAKER_00: love right and uh
52:44
SPEAKER_00: My favorite one was the one about vampires.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: I got to tell you, I'm a fan of vampires, right?
52:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
52:50
SPEAKER_00: I guess because I was a kid in the 90s,
52:51
SPEAKER_00: and for younger listeners of the podcast,
52:54
SPEAKER_00: the 90s was like a vampire era,
52:56
SPEAKER_00: right?
52:57
SPEAKER_00: There was that weird,
52:58
SPEAKER_00: like,
52:59
SPEAKER_00: there was,
52:59
SPEAKER_00: okay,
52:59
SPEAKER_00: so there was that weird,
53:00
SPEAKER_00: like,
53:01
Twilight kind of thing going on in the 2000s or whenever
53:05
Twilight came out,
53:06
SPEAKER_00: right?
53:06
But the real age of vampires,
53:08
when you saw vampires everywhere,
53:09
was like the early 90s.
53:11
Because you had Anne Rice and you had,
53:14
you know,
53:15
even Stephen King wrote the vampire book.
53:17
SPEAKER_00: Just vampires everywhere.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: It was a bunch of vampire TV shows and movies.
53:22
this is a role-playing game that nerds and weirdos might
53:26
recognize as vampire the
53:28
SPEAKER_00: masquerade which was like if you're into dungeons and dragons vampire the
53:32
masquerade people were the next level of weirdness kind of
53:36
stuff oh yeah i've been
53:37
to a couple of those uh like live larper things like the the
53:41
masquerade stuff and
53:43
SPEAKER_00: people are playing paper scissor rocks right
53:46
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: I used to be into that too, okay?
53:49
And everybody was wearing,
53:50
like,
53:50
freaking leather trench coats and shit,
53:52
you know?
53:52
SPEAKER_00: And it was fun, right?
53:54
SPEAKER_00: But I love vampires.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you mentioned that too.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: So what is it about vampires that, like, you're into, you know?
54:03
SPEAKER_02: I really wanted to, like, write, like, a vampire story.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: I just haven't... I haven't found the right time.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: But, yeah, I just...
54:16
i think i really like the like the amorized kind of like
54:19
vampires um because
54:22
they're almost like fallen angels like in the sense of like
54:25
they basically have
54:26
like gone to the edge of existence and they're still like
54:28
looking for god and like
54:30
they have all like this power but it like essentially like
54:34
amounts to nothing which
54:35
is what the where the brooding comes from i think it's just
54:39
like a very like
54:40
SPEAKER_02: interesting like way to like observe like human behavior
54:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what I liked about him too,
54:48
SPEAKER_00: the idea of,
54:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
54:50
SPEAKER_00: they get the gift of,
54:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
54:52
SPEAKER_00: forever youth,
54:53
SPEAKER_00: immortality,
54:55
SPEAKER_00: which is something that our culture,
54:57
SPEAKER_00: our society is obsessed with.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to be young.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: I want to be strong.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: I want to be like this Nietzschean, like demigod kind of thing.
55:06
But I'm also a disgusting parasite at the same time,
55:09
you know,
55:09
and there's nothing beyond this.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just, I'm a dead end.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: And then if you apply a religious Christian angle to it,
55:18
SPEAKER_00: the end is hell,
55:21
SPEAKER_00: like eternal damnation.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: So you're basically stuck in this limbo of like,
55:27
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
55:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm cool,
55:28
SPEAKER_00: but I'm also a pathetic parasite that kills people.
55:31
And it's like,
55:33
I think the saddest thing in all the Anne Rice books is Claudia.
55:36
SPEAKER_00: Claudia, like...
55:38
just hits me i mean i don't know why like it always has
55:42
bothered me my entire life
55:43
like ever since i read the book and yeah i think you really
55:46
feel like the spirit of
55:48
because like ann rice's daughter like died i feel like she
55:51
really like infused that
55:52
SPEAKER_02: character like with the feelings like she have her daughter right
55:59
SPEAKER_00: And then you want to like Lestat.
56:00
And I actually think Tom Cruise did a great job in the movie
56:03
because Tom Cruise is
56:04
SPEAKER_00: probably Lestat in real life.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: And you're just like, when you're young, you're like, oh, he's so cool.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, Lestat's a badass.
56:12
He's like a very Nietzschean kind of Uber man,
56:16
you know,
56:16
does whatever he wants.
56:17
But you said it really well in your post where he's like,
56:21
no,
56:21
he's kind of pathetic.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, he's...
56:25
SPEAKER_00: he's kind of gross,
56:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
56:26
SPEAKER_00: like he has no transcendent qualities besides he,
56:30
SPEAKER_00: you know,
56:30
SPEAKER_00: he,
56:31
SPEAKER_00: he acts like he's as bad-ass God,
56:33
SPEAKER_00: but really he's just,
56:34
SPEAKER_00: he's just kind of a parasite,
56:35
SPEAKER_00: you know,
56:36
SPEAKER_00: and always kind of like,
56:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
56:38
SPEAKER_00: that actually hit me.
56:39
I was reading,
56:40
rereading that post yesterday,
56:41
kind of preparing to talk to you.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen the new Nosferatu movie?
56:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: Did you like it?
56:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: On initial impression.
56:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
56:54
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of how I felt too.
56:55
My friends,
56:56
my co-workers,
56:57
like,
56:57
let's go do a movie night with all our work people.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: So I went and saw it.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: And I liked that he was kind of a gross, like, creep.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
57:05
SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's kind of cool.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, he's cool but kind of gross at the same time.
57:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure I liked the casting of Johnny Depp's daughter 100%.
57:16
SPEAKER_00: But overall it worked.
57:18
SPEAKER_00: All right.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: So we've been chatting for about an hour.
57:22
so what's next do you have a book out there getting ready to
57:25
hopefully come out
57:26
right yeah what else can we look forward to from yeah when
57:29
we're all in the nursing
57:30
home you'll be able to read it okay i look no i'm sure it'll be
57:33
it'll probably be
57:34
earlier than that right anything else coming out any new short
57:39
stories you're
57:39
working on or cool uh newsletter post or anything to look
57:43
forward to um not in the
57:47
SPEAKER_02: works but i'm sure there'll be something soon
57:50
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, guys, back home, thank you for listening.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Autumn, thank you very much for joining us.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: If you, you know, I really recommend you guys read Girl Like Bomb.
58:00
SPEAKER_00: I haven't read The Crooked God Machine, but I...
58:03
SPEAKER_00: I bought it, so it's pending, sitting around on my Kindle.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and follow Autumn on Substack.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: It's Teach Robots to Love.
58:16
Honestly,
58:17
some of the best newsletter writing on that website,
58:19
in my opinion.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: And purchase her books.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: She's got two short story collections, which are really good.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: And you got stuff all over the place, right?
58:29
SPEAKER_00: There's links everywhere.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: You have a lot of writing out there.
58:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty active on Twitter.
58:33
SPEAKER_02: I need to aggregate everything,
58:35
but I have a couple of links on there that just kind of shows
58:39
the highlights.
58:41
SPEAKER_02: I have many things consigned to the internet career.
58:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just started posting again on Twitter.
58:48
I used to have an account that was pretty big and I think I had
58:52
like 10,000 followers and stuff.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: And it was like many years.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: I made it like pretty early on.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: And I went to Europe and I was like,
59:01
I'm going to turn it off because I'm tired of my life being
59:04
sucked away by Twitter.
59:06
SPEAKER_00: And then I forgot to activate it and it got deleted permanently.
59:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:11
and like i was like oh man so then for like a year and a half i
59:15
just didn't bother
59:16
making a new one and i was like i should probably make a new
59:18
one just because i
59:18
want to talk to people on there you know and now i'm back on it
59:23
but i don't really
59:23
like it anymore i don't really like twitter it just i don't it
59:26
feels like it sucks
59:27
away your life you know it's just like yeah i like it comes and
59:30
goes whether or not
59:33
i like it or not it's like the town square it's like you walk
59:36
out and you're like
59:37
SPEAKER_02: is anything going on that's interesting like no okay
59:40
Yeah,
59:40
it's a town square,
59:41
but a town where everybody's a schizophrenic,
59:43
you know?
59:43
And it's just like,
59:44
everybody's like yelling and throwing shit at each other.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, like tiresome sometimes.
59:49
And sometimes I'm like,
59:50
I'm in the mood for it because I'm like masochistic.
59:53
But other times I'm just like,
59:54
ugh,
59:54
I just want to delete it again,
59:55
you know?
59:57
SPEAKER_00: All right, Autumn, thank you for coming on.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: Big fan of yours.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_00: No, it's okay.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, I understand, right?
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: Like,
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: I knock out these podcasts in between,
1:00:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:00:09
SPEAKER_00: when my daughter's at her dance class and all this stuff.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_00: So it allows me to – today my dogs have been really quiet.
1:00:15
Usually the dogs become guests on the podcast because they bust
1:00:18
into the room and
1:00:19
SPEAKER_00: they're jumping on the bed.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, mine too.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_01: So I'm polite today.
1:00:22
I'm surprised no dogs or my cat hasn't jumped on the desk and
1:00:26
knocked over all my
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: glasses and stuff.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_00: But anyways, thank you.
1:00:29
And for listeners at home,
1:00:30
go ahead and please like,
1:00:32
share,
1:00:32
subscribe and all that fun stuff.
1:00:34
Next week,
1:00:35
we're going to be doing an episode of what's going to be just
1:00:37
me and Fisto.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: I told you guys that,
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: once every two months,
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: we're going to do a,
1:00:41
just a Alex and Fisto kind of conversation because you guys
1:00:44
seem to really like
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: that for some freaking reason,
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: you know?
1:00:47
so we're going to go ahead and do that and if you are listening
1:00:49
right now before
1:00:50
the next recording go ahead and shoot me a message if you have
1:00:54
anything you guys
1:00:54
want me to talk about or you know kind of discuss um that's not
1:00:59
annoying drama i'm
1:01:00
tired of annoying drama even though we tend to get sucked into
1:01:03
it all the time but
1:01:04
otherwise you know support writers like autumn because that's
1:01:08
what we're really
1:01:09
here for is to like have these great conversations and autumn
1:01:12
once again thank you
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: for joining us in this uh
1:01:17
episode okay i really appreciate it thanks for having me all
1:01:20
right good night guys