Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Chef Tavel Bristol-Joseph on Mental Health & Culinary Innovation | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep 133

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Chef Tavel Bristol-Joseph on Mental Health & Culinary Innovation | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep 133 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, this is Chef's PSA podcast.
0:02
I'm your host Andre Natera. On today's episode, we have
0:04
Tevelle Bristol Joseph. He's a chef.
0:06
He's a pastry chef, he's a restaurateur.
0:09
He's part of Emmer and Rye Hospitality.
0:11
He recently received one Michelin star for Hestia in
0:14
Austin, TX and one green star for Emmer and Rye.
0:17
We talked about mental health, his new dessert restaurant in
0:21
Nicosi, hospitality and culture. I think you'll enjoy this one.
0:25
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1:20
Chef. Good to see you.
1:21
Good to see you man, I like. That we're both kind of
1:23
matching. We we dress as.
1:25
I think we got the memo. Yeah, I mean, the black makes me
1:29
look slimmer, so this was intentional.
1:32
Me too. I'm not.
1:34
You know, the camera adds 50 lbs or something, right?
1:37
By the way, congratulations to you and and Kevin and everyone
1:40
on the team for the, the most recent Michelin awards.
1:44
Thank you. The the green star, the one star
1:47
for Hestia. I I feel like all your
1:49
restaurants were nominated. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:52
I mean, how did, how does the team?
1:53
Are you still on Cloud 9? Man, we are so, so, so, so
1:57
excited and so appreciative to of all the love and support that
2:01
we've gotten outside of getting the award.
2:05
Like it's even better when people came and come in and
2:08
they're like, oh, I knew you were going to get it, you know
2:10
what I mean? Or you deserve more like it.
2:13
That's just the icing on top. So our regulars are excited
2:18
people that we didn't even think what's paying attention?
2:21
It's paying attention. And I think that's what's the
2:23
more fulfilling aspect of it. But overall, just to be
2:27
recognized to what we're doing. And I mean, you know, we've been
2:31
at this grind for nine years. So for for nine years in Austin.
2:37
So for us to be recognized on the level in which we have been,
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there's no there's no words that can explain that.
2:45
What did? What did?
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You do to celebrate night of. Man, we went to a wine bar.
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Yeah, we. So blue, we went to a wine bar
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and had a nice glass of wine with the team.
2:58
We took like it was probably about 10 of us there.
3:02
So the team there, we, we just went to one bar, just kind of
3:06
sat back and had some, just some great conversations.
3:11
And then we're working on getting something together in
3:14
Austin so we can get the team together and just celebrate.
3:17
But it's just been great. Was it surreal?
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Absolutely. Man.
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I saw, I saw Rico was on the show right after he won the
3:25
award. He was, we did Michelin panel,
3:27
right? And so I saw the photos of you
3:29
and Rico and Diego and Kevin on stage and I was like, man, I, I
3:32
couldn't be happier. I was watching, you know, from
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my bed on YouTube, right? And I'm and I'm in a couple of
3:38
group texts, right? I'm in one with like Matt Peters
3:41
and Junior and another one with with Gabe.
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And we're like, look, look at we're we're all cheering you on.
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I couldn't, I couldn't be happier.
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Yeah, I could not be happier for.
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You all it's it was beautiful, man, And and yeah, I mean all
3:53
those guys, there's just good people, but it's weird sitting
3:58
there watching this thing happen.
4:01
It's it's one of those things where you're like, you know, we
4:04
all have the dreams of like, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll hell
4:07
yeah, I'm going to do that shit. And then you actually sitting in
4:11
it and watching it, they're like, holy shit, it's actually
4:14
happening. It's right in front of my face.
4:15
Yeah. It's insane, man.
4:17
It's a crazy feeling. So I was at Isador, yeah, like 2
4:23
weeks ago. I feel like I ate there with
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John Brand. Yeah, I got to see.
4:27
I saw Kevin, I saw Jorge and I feel like I don't, I don't know
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what the secret is, but every single one of the restaurants in
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the group have such a unique identity and and and they the
4:43
food is just always on point and I like it was just another one.
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I would like. I haven't been here.
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I've been to all the other ones. This one's great.
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It's another great one, but you also have, I haven't been to
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Nkosi. Yeah.
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So for people that don't know, this is a pretty special place
4:58
too. Yes.
4:59
So yes, I want you to tell people about that, cause a lot
5:01
of people need to know about this.
5:02
This is yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's such a fun space.
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So Nkosi is a concept that I thought about since I was 17
5:11
years old. OK, by the way.
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Where are you when you're 17 years old?
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I am this right. I'm in New York City, just moved
5:18
to New York. I started culinary school at the
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New York Restaurant School. Right after culinary school, I
5:26
started working at the River Cafe.
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And when I got to the River Cafe, I was, I mean, you should
5:32
see me at that time. I had gold chain on braids.
5:35
Crazy. And then the chef there, this
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guy Francisco, who's actually, he went on to be the pastry chef
5:43
at French Laundry. Then he went to the modernist
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and now he is the pastry chef at Noma.
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He just got on there a couple months ago, but super talented
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chef and he was like you young, you seem like you.
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This is something that you want to do if you want to take this
6:04
seriously. I got displaced, I want you to
6:05
check out. And it was called Room for
6:08
Dessert in the City. So I went there, barely had any
6:14
money, and I was like, I am going to just go experience this
6:19
thing. And I walked in.
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I would never forget it. It's this long hallway
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essentially with like a bar and you sit down, they give you
6:26
menus like six or seven items on the menu and you pick what
6:30
dessert you want and you watch them plate it up in front of you
6:34
and they present it. And it was all desserts with
6:36
wines. And so I was like, this was the
6:40
first time that I saw desserts on the front page where you
6:46
walked in and it was that's what you were getting outside of a
6:49
bakery or something like that. So I at that moment I was like,
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well, this is what I want to do. And this is one day I want to
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open up a space that looks and feels like this so.
7:01
People that were unfamiliar because I'm unfamiliar with this
7:03
place. Yeah.
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What? What?
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What did you take with it into the new space?
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So what I took with it was the same same thing I just
7:13
mentioned. How do I create a space where
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dessert is the main focus? And throughout my travels and
7:23
experiences, what I've, I've been, I've gotten connected to
7:27
different flavour profiles and, and techniques on how we make
7:31
things and also what does hospitality means and feel
7:36
right? So I was able now to like put
7:40
that into this melting pot and then create something.
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So starting from the name desserts is a, it's an option.
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You go to a restaurant because you want to eat the food.
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You're hungry. Dessert is if I'm in the mood
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for something sweet. No matter how popular the pastry
7:58
chef is, you are, you're there. You might have dessert because
8:02
the pastry chef is popular, but 90% of the times you go to the
8:06
restaurant to have the entrees optional.
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Same thing with your middle name.
8:14
Sometimes your best friend that you've been around for years,
8:17
you don't know their middle name.
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Very optional. So Nicosia is my middle name.
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Dessert is an optional thing. I wanted to put those two things
8:27
together where it's now the thing that we talked about and
8:32
it's a expression of self. So this space is really a part
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is the 17 year old me that wanted to create, that wanted,
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that was so excited about innovation, that was so excited
8:46
about showcasing the, the, the talents of the arts of pastry.
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This is what that space represents.
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So it has 20 seats, 10 courses, 2 seatings a night, no menu, no
9:05
phones. It's just a space to be present.
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And the reason why I wanted to make sure that there was no menu
9:12
is because storytelling is such an important part in our
9:15
business. And I think a lot of times when
9:18
people don't understand our food is because it gets lost in
9:21
translation. And I want to be able to have
9:25
that conversation with you where you can ask that question you
9:28
wanted to ask. Also, you can see me put this
9:31
thing together and present it to you so there's no curtains.
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And the other part is we live in a society right now where we
9:42
carry in trauma from the past and we are also walking with
9:47
anxiety for the future. So there's not too many people
9:51
that's present. And what they consider present
9:55
is sometimes not present because your thoughts are taking you
9:59
places. So if I can create and room a
10:02
space that where you don't have a choice but to be present
10:05
without telling you, you have to be present, where I removed all
10:10
transaction and everything is something of deeper meaning,
10:13
then that's how we change the world, I believe.
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And I'm just doing it through food.
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But it's all part of the therapy.
10:20
It's all part of having that mental health, that strength,
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that understanding of how do we coexist in spaces together as
10:29
humans and talk and be present. Like, oh, you like that dish?
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The person next to you that you just met, What's so exciting
10:36
about the other dish? You know what I mean?
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Like, those are those conversations that I hear in
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that space. And that's what makes it really
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special. So for people that haven't been
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there and that are thinking about going there, like for me,
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how do you navigate a tasting menu with all sweet courses or
10:53
all desserts? Right.
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So we focus on the four major flavor profiles.
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So we have acid umami, which is salty.
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Acid could be sour, right? Whichever words you want to
11:08
determine that bitter and sweet. So when we say something is
11:15
acidic, like we are really bringing out those flavors.
11:18
So it's essentially the same way you eat when you go to a
11:20
restaurant where you order the crudo and the salad that gives
11:24
you that acidity. And then you go into your pasta,
11:28
which could be considered your umami.
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And then you're going to finish off with probably a steak or a
11:34
grilled chicken, which is bitter because it's burnt, and then you
11:37
finish with something sweet. So we carry you on that journey.
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We're using dessert techniques to make something.
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So if you make a souffle, that's a dessert technique.
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No matter how you play it. When you make a mousse, that's a
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dessert technique. Don't matter.
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It could be sweet savory. It's still a technique in how
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you create something. So we're using like black
12:00
garlic, we're using like misos. We're using all of those
12:04
different flavor profile beef, bone broth, all of those things
12:08
to create these dishes that takes you on a journey.
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So a lot of the flavor combinations then that you're
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using and for a first time diner, they're going to be
12:16
unexpected. It's it's it's kind of also
12:18
breaking preconceived notions of what dessert is.
12:22
Unexpected but familiar. OK, Right.
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Yeah. So the techniques are familiar.
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There might be some familiarity, but you're also taking them on.
12:30
Hey, let me take you out of your comfort zone a little.
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Bit exactly, exactly because you don't expect black garlic to be
12:35
part of dessert, but you know garlic, right?
12:38
Right. Like so I tried to like give you
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that. So you do know chocolate, yes,
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but you, you haven't experienced 100% cocoa.
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And when I say 100%, I mean they use the whole pod everything,
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which creates a different flavor profile.
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That's the experience you're going to, you're going to have
12:56
there that you didn't think cheese can go both ways.
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So we're able to use cheese as umami.
13:03
Those are those things. So you understand it, but you're
13:06
like, how did you use cheese to make a sundae?
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That's how we're that's, that's how we're bridging that gap.
13:13
So you also mentioned hospitality.
13:17
So how do you incorporate hospitality into Nkosi?
13:21
But also, what's the what's the common thread that's throughout
13:25
the entire group when it comes to hospitality?
13:28
Yeah. So it's kind of similar to what
13:31
I mentioned earlier because hospitality comes into the end
13:37
of the day. Hospitality is just how you make
13:40
someone feel, right. And, and all that depends on the
13:44
individual. So when we talk about a group
13:47
wide, our goal is to remove this transactional relationship that
13:55
people have with food to something of deeper of to
14:00
something of deeper meaning, right.
14:03
So if I can make your decisions that you make easier and more
14:11
sustainable, then we are extending a level of hospitality
14:16
that most people don't. So I can extend knowledge
14:21
through the level of making you feel comfortable, making you
14:25
feel like you belong to space, making you feel like you're part
14:30
of this space. That is what hospitality.
14:33
That's the level of hospitality we want to provide instead of
14:37
sitting here trying to teach you about Koji and why it's
14:40
important and how sustainability works.
14:43
And we do all our vinegars and yes, we do all of that.
14:47
But if I can just say to you, listen, we make delicious food.
14:51
Come in and try it out. If you don't like it, great.
14:54
So. So you have I, I, I've lost
14:57
count. You have a lot of restaurants in
14:59
the group? Yes.
15:00
What? What?
15:00
How many is it? We got a total of. 1010 Wow.
15:04
Yeah, I remember when Emmer first opened.
15:07
It was just Emmer. Just one.
15:08
It was just one, right? Wow.
15:11
And the plan was just to have one.
15:13
Actually, the plan was two. Yeah.
15:14
It was supposed to be open Emmer.
15:16
And then I was I was going to come help me Kevin open up
15:19
Emmer. And then I was going to open up
15:21
a dessert bar. Yeah, that was it.
15:24
Nothing else. And now 10, now 10 plus Pullman
15:28
market, yes. Right.
15:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's 11.
15:31
And if people haven't been there, so it's inside the Pearl
15:35
in San Antonio. Yes.
15:36
And it's massive. I was there a couple weekends
15:38
ago and yeah, I, I ate one of the monster cookies and I ate
15:43
some pasta. You know, I was with Rico.
15:45
We had some pizza and it was just awesome.
15:48
So I, I, I love all the concepts that you all have put together,
15:52
but with hospitality. So you have this group with with
15:55
10 plus Pullman Market. And one of the things that I
15:59
think's unique about your group is the hospitality feels
16:01
seamless from restaurant to restaurant to restaurant.
16:04
Yeah, I've always had a great experience.
16:07
So how do you scale that from a from an operation standpoint to
16:12
the entire team? How do you how do you transmit
16:14
your passion and your knowledge and the hospitality that that
16:18
you want to give to people? But OK, great.
16:20
You can't be everywhere at once. So what's the method?
16:22
Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's really
16:28
interesting because you know, as chefs, we we think we can do it
16:33
all. And we also think that without
16:35
us, nothing moves, right, which is incorrect, right?
16:39
Everything can move, just not direction.
16:42
And it continues to move, maybe not in the direction you would
16:44
want it to move, but it's moving.
16:48
We are what what we figured out is we have a corporate team now.
16:53
So it's five business partners and we all have our respective
16:57
lanes in which we do, whether that's HR, fine dining,
17:02
hospitality, we all have our lanes.
17:07
We're able to focus, I'm focused on my management team because I
17:12
believe that that's where it's almost like creating a critical
17:16
path. What what a lot of managers get
17:19
mixed up with leaders in general.
17:22
They try to control every aspect of the business.
17:28
And if you do that, you're going to run yourself crazy and you're
17:30
going to get burnt out. If you can create a a line that
17:36
is just the critical points, some simple as I don't care
17:42
where the lettuce goes in The Walking.
17:46
What I care about is the letters is washed and it's put in the
17:50
correct box and it's labeled properly.
17:53
Your job is to put it anywhere in the walk and you choose most
17:57
chefs. We are like what we want the
17:59
letters here. We're focused on the wrong
18:02
things. So if I have a team of people
18:05
and I can say, well, you're going to focus on the day-to-day
18:10
training. If they got caught up and all
18:11
that, these are the points that I need the team to understand
18:15
and know. When you walk into this space,
18:17
you need to feel welcomed. That is our priority.
18:22
Your interpretation of welcome is different from mine.
18:25
So there is a human aspect to this thing, but at the end of
18:29
the day, we need to make people feel welcomed.
18:32
So you tap into what makes you great and then show that because
18:39
nobody cares about what you're not great at.
18:43
There's people out there that wants to magnify on your on your
18:47
flaws, but majority of the people they are, they only want
18:50
to see your greatness. And if you believe that, then it
18:54
gives you the ability to be more confident in yourself and where
18:58
you show up. So I focus 100% of my management
19:02
team and then I move through the spaces as an example of what I
19:08
am teaching my management team and they are now able to carry
19:13
that through. So when I walk in the building,
19:15
I'm shaking every single person hand in our building.
19:18
I'm saying hi to everybody. I got a smile on my face.
19:21
I got the right energy. I am not telling them to look at
19:24
me. I'm living it every day.
19:27
And then when we're having conversation on how you make
19:30
people feel and, and, and what systems we need to put into
19:34
place to give people comfort when they walk in, that's those
19:39
are the the building blocks, but those are our critical path that
19:43
we're kind of focusing on those points on how we make sure we
19:47
show up in a space. But people are really interested
19:51
in dynamic changes week to week. I'm different about the person I
19:57
was last week. So there's no clear definition
20:02
on the hospitality. I know that it's been written in
20:04
a couple of books, but when you're in the game, it's just
20:08
like. That's just use basketball.
20:10
It's like a moment. You feel it.
20:12
You. Feel it at that moment.
20:13
Go on it. So you have to teach people how
20:16
to feel. Just like as a chef, you have to
20:19
teach people how to taste, not cook taste, right.
20:24
Cook is a technique. Taste is a craft.
20:27
It's a skill that you cannot teach just like that.
20:30
Easy. It's something that you have to
20:32
work with someone. Yeah, to get.
20:35
Yeah, there's that old expression that sometimes the
20:39
chef is not the best cook in the kitchen, but they're the best
20:41
taster. Absolutely.
20:43
Yep. Yep, 100%.
20:45
One of the, I don't remember which restaurant it was.
20:47
I think it was at Emmer. And I remember you came over to
20:52
the table and we're talking and I, I paid attention to your
20:56
movements because I, I, I noticed every little thing.
20:59
And while we're talking, I noticed you wiped the table and
21:01
poured water. Yeah.
21:02
And I was like, you weren't, and you're still talking and we're
21:06
having a conversation, but you were like.
21:08
Just. Like nothing.
21:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's the goal, right?
21:13
It should seem, it should feel seamless, right?
21:18
Where we are engaged in this thing on this display that's
21:22
happening. You're part of it.
21:24
I'm part of it. I'm watching your eye contact.
21:26
If you look down at a plate, I saw that.
21:29
That means I know I need to move, that it's those nonverbal
21:33
actions that makes you better at hospitality.
21:36
So teaching someone to pay attention and be present.
21:39
Do you have hospitality? Pet peeves?
21:41
Oh. My God, one my hospitality pet
21:45
peeve I take my first one that that can come to mind is the
21:50
opening spiel when you go to a restaurant.
21:53
Sometimes it's too long. It's.
21:54
It's too long and it's also sometimes they're like, I great.
21:59
I'm glad that you guys focus on this and this and this and this.
22:03
You could have fold that in the conversation when you drop the
22:06
first dish. Yeah, You know, to be this
22:08
opening thing of like this is what we do.
22:10
If you don't know about us, we do this.
22:12
We do that. I've done a little bit of
22:14
research. That's why I showed up.
22:17
I I already have one step in right Right now.
22:20
I didn't just happen to stumble into this place.
22:23
Yeah, I made reservation and. It's Have you ever been here
22:26
before? And you say no and then they
22:28
tell you everything on the menu? It's like I could read.
22:29
Yeah, yeah. Those are those things like read
22:32
the room, right? Read the Room.
22:34
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, we we could, we could, we
22:39
could probably talk about hospitality pet peeves at
22:41
length, but I won't spend too much time on that.
22:44
One of the things that you mentioned and, and I kind of
22:47
want to tie this into multiple things.
22:49
So we talked about, I talk a lot about kitchen culture on chef's
22:52
PSA and every day I put up a daily post which is somehow tied
22:57
into kitchen culture. It's what I'm passionate about.
23:00
And I know you're passionate about culture as well.
23:04
So when you're creating a culture of hospitality, how do
23:08
you how do you create the culture in, in the, in the
23:10
culinary environment? What does that look like when
23:13
you're when you're building it? Yeah, So one, I think you're the
23:21
the culture. Culture comes in for me.
23:23
Culture comes in these different shades, right?
23:26
Because culture comes from the thing that I grew up in that I
23:34
that is something that's traditional, that this is what
23:36
we do. And then, you know, there's our
23:40
hospitality culture in which these are mouse.
23:43
These are things that we these are pillars that we've stood on
23:48
that our business is built upon. So this is what we do.
23:52
And then there's the overall culture in the restaurant
23:55
industry where yes, is the answer, what is the question?
23:59
So there is that level, right? How I like to go about when we
24:05
talk about culture in space, I like to tap into what are like,
24:12
what are we trying to achieve here with this space?
24:17
So if we're going to do like, for example, a kanji, that space
24:26
represents a, a specific culture, a Caribbean culture,
24:31
right? Not Guyanese, not Trinidad, not
24:35
Jamaica, but a Guyanese, but a Caribbean culture.
24:40
What does it feel like to be in the Caribbean?
24:43
What does it feel like to have interaction with someone that is
24:47
from the Caribbean? That's what I'm trying to to
24:50
give. The food is delicious, it's
24:54
good, it's representation of a specific country, a technique,
24:59
all of those things. But outside of that, what does
25:03
it feel like to interact and be present in a space with someone
25:07
that is truly from the Caribbean?
25:09
So I'm going to focus my hospitality around that.
25:13
And the fastest word that came to mind is welcome, because
25:17
that's how I felt when growing up and that's what my household
25:22
was. I had a lot of aunties and
25:24
cousins that were never aunties or cousins, you know, I mean,
25:28
they were mom best friend, but that's Auntie Shelley, you know
25:31
what I mean? That's just how it is.
25:33
Because her whole thing was welcome.
25:36
Come on in. So when I thought about kanji,
25:41
it was, I want every single person.
25:43
I don't, I don't care what nationality you are.
25:46
I don't care where you're from, you should feel welcome that
25:50
you're a part of this. I'm not creating a space that's
25:53
just for Caribbean people. I'm creating a space that anyone
25:58
can come and experience Caribbean food and culture.
26:01
And that's what that means to me.
26:04
It's very similar to what we, when we created Emmer was.
26:09
We want to make that true connection of what Texas food
26:13
is, not what Texas food is known for, but what Texas food is.
26:18
So working with all the farmers and ranchers and saying this
26:23
grows well in Texas, we will highlight this.
26:27
And if you want to change next week, we will change our menu
26:30
too. We're locked in with you and
26:33
there's this relationship. So how do we create hospitality
26:37
around that? When you sit down and talk with
26:40
a farmer, they make you feel like it's some of the most
26:43
humble people we know, right? The hard working humble people.
26:48
So our hospitality needs to reflect that.
26:51
When you walk into the restaurant and I lock in on
26:55
those things. So when I think about the name
26:57
of a restaurant, when I think about the type of food we're
27:00
serving, I will do my research on what does this represent if
27:05
like Kylie Mucho Basque Country, how does it feels if I'm in the
27:10
Basque Country? And what does that represents
27:14
Isador in San Antonio? That's essentially a marriage
27:19
between Hestia and Emmer, If you really think about it, right?
27:23
It's that it's that focused on Texas, but utilizing these
27:27
really cool techniques. How does it how does that feel
27:33
when I say that to you? And then I and then I create
27:36
what the hospitality should look and feel like in our space.
27:40
And then I teach that to my general manager.
27:43
So I want to go back early days of Emmer and rye before you have
27:48
everything and you're you're in the beginning stages of creating
27:52
what is now, you know, 10 restaurants plus A+ Pullman
27:56
market when you were when you were starting out and you're
28:00
creating the the kitchen culture just in that single restaurant.
28:05
I'm assuming again, it was one of the IT is I mean, just got
28:09
the green start one of the best restaurants in Austin.
28:11
So how were you all created all the the culture for all the new
28:16
people coming in? What was it like in those days?
28:19
Man, so. It's 2014.
28:23
Yeah, 2014, Yeah. So, no, I think it's 2015.
28:28
Fifteen. Yeah.
28:30
So what at that point? So I can't even speak exactly on
28:36
it and I'll tell you why we both resort, me and Kevin, we were
28:42
like working, we're in the grind and that's our first restaurant
28:48
and we have heavy hitters in that restaurant.
28:51
We got Paige Presley, we got these are made.
28:55
We have Danny that came from key, like key respect key that
29:00
used to work at Uchi. It was heavy hitters in our
29:02
space. Everybody's talented and we're
29:07
in there trying to figure out and, and not to mention a ton of
29:12
egos, right, right. So.
29:15
In the kitchen, right? Ton of egos, man.
29:18
So it was just like it was one of the most happiest fulfilling
29:24
things because, you know, we got excited about everything.
29:28
And if you work with Kevin, are you around Kevin long enough?
29:31
He gets excited about grains, right?
29:34
Rice simple shed. You're like, wait, what?
29:36
Why are you so excited? He's like, you don't understand.
29:39
This was the first mill. OK, bro.
29:41
So we have we had like these very exciting moments there.
29:48
And we also had some of the hardest moments there.
29:53
Culture was the the the only culture we really focused on was
29:59
taste in our restaurant. Like you have to know how to
30:04
make food taste delicious. Did you ever get to a point back
30:09
then where you thought we're not going to make it?
30:12
Oh yeah. What was that?
30:13
Like, Oh yeah, that was that was stressful.
30:15
We opened slow as hell, man. We opened our restaurant.
30:21
We used to see 20 people a night and this is stemming off of like
30:24
we did the media thing and you know, we did have I had the
30:27
media come in and all that. So we are thinking like, oh,
30:30
it's going to pop off right away.
30:32
Took like three to four months before it really popped off.
30:39
We were climbing right. We will make in that 510%.
30:43
But man, it was, it was hard and it was a lot of nights that we,
30:49
you know, like Kevin sold his car because we had to make
30:52
payroll. You know, we, we got to space
30:55
where we couldn't even give ourselves a raise or nothing.
30:58
We, we were all working for low, like you're talking minimum
31:02
wage. We were all working for that as
31:05
owners of this business and just to be able to make it, it was
31:11
rough. Yeah, at what point?
31:13
So first it was Emmer, second was Henbic, correct?
31:19
Yes, But the the second kind of full service restaurant was
31:23
Hestia. Yes.
31:24
At what point did you say OK, we're we're ready to go to Step
31:28
2, open the second one. Yeah.
31:31
Were you not ready to like we're just we're we're not ready.
31:34
You're never. Ready bro?
31:35
You're never ready. You get in and and even to this
31:39
day, our organization is billed as you go.
31:43
Yeah, we don't have it set up. We don't have the the perfect
31:47
blueprint. I think we're smarter than we're
31:49
giving ourselves credit for it. Let's just say that, OK, but we
31:52
literally build it block by block.
31:54
Like we didn't know that we were going to do a grocery.
31:57
We didn't. We don't know how to that.
31:59
We have restaurant people, right?
32:01
But if you're passionate enough about it, we'll figure it out.
32:05
We're going to make some mistakes along the way and you
32:07
have we want to learn. And you have a smart team like
32:09
I'll say it, you have a very smart.
32:11
Team, we got a smart team, we really do.
32:13
And, and, and we're able to, I think what we're what's really
32:18
good about MRI hospitality is that we're able to pivot at any
32:23
point and we're crazy enough to pivot.
32:27
A lot of companies are scared to pivot.
32:30
We're not. Yeah, we'll figure it out.
32:32
Well, I, I think back when, when the pandemic hit and we were all
32:38
what, what's going to happen. And it was during South by
32:40
Southwest, if you, if you remember 100%.
32:43
So I'm sure every, every restaurant is probably booked
32:46
and then it's like gone. We're not open.
32:49
Not only do you lose when South by cancelled, we all lost the
32:54
money for months and it was like for people that don't know
32:57
Austin, sometimes you're banking that South by Southwest, oh man,
33:00
it's going to carry you for three or four months.
33:03
After Damn right yeah. Yeah, I'm sure that was to go
33:07
through that to weather that storm did.
33:09
Was there ever a point where you thought we're not going to come
33:11
out of? This 100%.
33:13
We we signed up. You know what saved us?
33:16
Therapy. We had group therapy.
33:18
All the owners, because what happened is, and I remember
33:23
specifically being on the back patio at Hestia.
33:29
I don't think I've ever shared this, but we we're all on the
33:31
back patio at Hestia and I lost it.
33:35
I freaked out on my team. I'm like, yo, I'm not hearing
33:39
nothing, Nobody's saying nothing.
33:41
We don't know what the next move is.
33:43
I'm real quiet and we all talking about we don't know.
33:45
We don't know. We need to know because I have
33:48
this mindset like I'm very good at compartmentalizing stuff and
33:54
and I'm also really good at the removing the emotions and
33:57
looking at the business. And then, you know, I try to do
34:00
that in most of the decisions I make.
34:03
And because it's, it's that mentality of like, all right,
34:05
I'm down now what how we getting out?
34:08
Like I I have no time to dwell on the fact that I'm down.
34:11
Right. So that was my frustration was
34:15
where everybody's like, I need time to process and I'm like, I
34:18
don't have time to process. I need to figure out what we
34:21
moving forward with. So we all like we had a little
34:24
venting session and everyone tipped in on how they felt.
34:28
And I was at that point is when we were like, we need to get
34:32
counseling. So through in that time period,
34:35
we had like our weekly meeting counseling where all of us would
34:39
be on a zoom and they that organization helped us to make
34:44
better decisions and create pillars and our foundation and
34:47
what we really want in life. Like we a lot came out of that.
34:51
I mean, that's such an interesting thing.
34:54
Mental health and Wellness is a huge topic right now in every in
34:57
every kitchen, more so now probably than ever.
35:00
And I'm not saying it wasn't an issue 20 years ago, 10 years
35:03
ago, but we're talking about it today where we weren't talking
35:05
about. It was just kind of all being
35:06
swept under the rug. What are you doing for yourself,
35:10
for your mental health and Wellness?
35:12
And then what are you doing for the teams that work in your
35:14
kitchen? Yeah, so one thing.
35:18
So we'll start with the team. We we preach the importance of
35:24
that for the team. So, you know, making sure that
35:28
everyone is having two days off, it's very important a week.
35:32
I don't, we don't need anyone that is coming into work working
35:37
six days trying to now there's situations that occur from time
35:41
to time, but that is not the norm for us.
35:43
So we make that clear. No one comes in and work off the
35:48
clock. Things of that nature.
35:50
I don't need no line cook to be trying to push and do you you 10
35:54
hours a day. That should be enough.
35:57
So we want to make sure that vacation time is all built in,
36:02
sick time built in. We do stipends for you to go and
36:07
learn something in a different country, different state, every
36:12
employee. They're eligible for that every
36:16
year. Yeah.
36:18
So we make sure that that happens.
36:20
Having events that are like team building events, bringing the
36:24
teams together for different things, whether that's a holiday
36:28
party or just go bowling as a team.
36:31
We'll we'll do things of that nature to kind of create a work
36:36
environment. And then most importantly, you
36:38
know, the kitchen doesn't have to be that stressful space that
36:42
it used to be. You can, you can inspire people
36:47
the right way and not through fear.
36:50
And that was one thing that I had a big problem with how I
36:56
came up in this industry and I never wanted to be a restaurant
37:01
owner that that's how they operated is with by fear.
37:05
So us being able to motivate our team and where every day you
37:09
feel part of something and you feel part of a group is
37:12
something that we take very seriously.
37:14
What do you do for yourself? For myself, that's that's
37:19
interesting. So I believe that to achieve The
37:26
thing is this, to achieve the things that we want to achieve,
37:30
you have to have drive and you have to, you have to have
37:35
perseverance. You have to have time and energy
37:38
to put into it, right? No great success story happens
37:43
for working 40 hours a week. It doesn't.
37:46
It's not real. To become successful, you have
37:50
to give up something to retrieve this.
37:54
But what's, what's important is you have to have a time limit on
37:59
everything, right? So if I'm going to what's work
38:02
life balance? Well, right now work life
38:05
balance for me is 80% work, 20% life.
38:10
And that's because I have a plan.
38:13
So in the next 4 years, I want to be able to be doing something
38:19
else which is more focused on my family.
38:22
And for me to get there, I need to build a foundation that will
38:26
set me up for that success. So I have a time stamp on I'm
38:32
going to give my organization 80% of my time now and I'm going
38:37
to do all the things that I need to do to build that structure
38:42
and foundation. And in the next 4 years I want
38:45
to drop that now to probably 5050.
38:48
Yeah, it's, it's funny you bring that up because that's something
38:50
I think a lot of people miss. They want in 10 years what
38:55
you're, what you're saying, in a few years I want to be doing
38:58
this. But that means you have to grind
39:00
now in order to do that. And so a lot of people get stuck
39:04
because they don't want to grind now because, you know, they,
39:07
they want this life now and then I want this great life later.
39:11
But I'm not willing to sacrifice anything now for that later.
39:14
And it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way.
39:17
And and, and I'm sorry, like I'm going to go against what you
39:20
know, all those awesome Instagram quick reels tell you
39:27
that how you can achieve and all that, like in the real life and
39:31
real work, right? Unless you're and we're talking
39:34
about the hospitality business, we're talking about cooks and
39:38
servers, right? We talk about the people that
39:40
are in the grind. This is not a startup tech
39:43
company. Physical labor is necessary.
39:47
Presence is necessary. You cannot manage someone from
39:51
behind a computer screen. So you have to be there to make
39:55
sure this thing works. Now you just have to have a time
40:00
limit on it and you have to create things and, and not just
40:04
saying, Oh, I'm going to go hard for 10.
40:06
Like you have to be strategic and think about what is going
40:10
hard to you mean, right. And because we all could be
40:14
working hard, we're just not working efficient.
40:17
So you have to separate your work hard from your work
40:20
efficiency. And then if those two things
40:23
come together, I promise you, you're going to be successful.
40:26
But you have to have. A system set up for that and you
40:31
have to have these personal goals on what you're trying to
40:34
achieve. So I'm busting my ass right now.
40:36
Sleep less, time with family less, right?
40:40
All of those things. I carry that burden out.
40:43
But I know what I'm working towards and, and as long as I
40:47
have a goal on what I want to achieve, I'm OK with that
40:51
sacrifice. And I have that conversation
40:52
with my family all the time and I let them know and the 20% time
40:57
that we're talking about that I have to spare.
41:01
I, I get like some quiet time. I need like when I get wind up,
41:06
I need like that day of where nobody bothers me, where I can
41:10
just sit around on Instagram and scroll.
41:13
I need that. I need that one day of just
41:16
getting up and doing nothing at all.
41:19
I need that probably once every two weeks just to keep my sanity
41:25
because I deal with so many people.
41:28
I need to have like away from people time.
41:31
So those are those things that I do and I communicate that with
41:34
my partner to make sure that we are both understanding of each
41:39
other wants and these and then obviously have to fulfill your
41:42
personal life too. It's funny, someone asked me
41:45
yesterday, I do AQ and A on Sundays and they asked me like,
41:49
are you going to take off Christmas?
41:51
So realistically, no, I, I still work every day.
41:55
I still work every day because I'm building this chef's PSA
41:58
company. So it's not, I'm not in the
42:00
position where I could take days off and I haven't taken a day
42:03
off in about 2 1/2 years. Even though I no longer work as
42:06
a chef, I still work every day. It's different, but I still work
42:09
every day. And that's what I think a lot of
42:11
people don't understand that when you want to build
42:13
something, when you're trying to create something, it's a lot of
42:16
effort. Yes, it's a, it's a lot of
42:18
effort because the effort that you're putting in, you're
42:22
planting seeds for later. Yeah, right.
42:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's the goal.
42:26
I'm going to ask you this about creativity.
42:28
So the group is large and it's talented like you have.
42:32
I was telling, I don't know who I was talking to the other day.
42:34
We were talking about you all. I said you guys don't understand
42:37
how much talent on this team. Yeah, there's a lot of talent,
42:40
like it's you and Kevin, but there's there's talent.
42:43
Yeah, it goes deep, it goes deep.
42:44
It's. Not it's a Jorge and it's
42:46
there's more layers, right? Yeah.
42:48
And most importantly, we have, we have like we, we have 10 jobs
42:54
under that one title, right? Because you know, like I, I'm a
42:58
pastry chef by trade, but I'm also do desserts.
43:01
I'm also do hospitality. I'm also being able to train and
43:05
motivate people. I'm all like, there's all these
43:07
different layers that come. So you're getting, you're not
43:11
just getting one thing, you're getting a whole plethora of same
43:15
with Kevin. So we're all able to like,
43:18
utilize all our talents to achieve goals.
43:21
So what's interesting about your group is that you have these All
43:24
Stars which on their own, top of the food chain, and then they
43:29
come together like Voltron. And it's like you have this
43:33
super group. So.
43:37
So I want to ask you about the creative processes you have.
43:40
You have all these heavy hitters in the room.
43:42
How do you guys collaborate to come up with the menu ideas and
43:46
the food #1 but also without? I know how chefs are, right?
43:53
Like there's going to be some, unless they're all like, you got
43:56
the perfect chefs that don't talk back.
43:58
No, no, everyone. How do you come to a conclusion?
44:01
Yeah, yeah, everyone has an opinion.
44:05
We have a policy where when we do a taste in for owners in the
44:13
space and and cooperate if something isn't right, we are
44:19
not too bold or brave. To.
44:23
To say, OK, let me let me pull back and refigure this thing
44:26
out. We all have to agree on that
44:29
thing. Because if I love it and four
44:33
other people love it that are not me, that has different
44:38
backgrounds, then we're doing something right.
44:41
We're speaking for a majority of the society.
44:45
If I love it and three out of people don't, then we we're
44:51
missing the point here, right? And we got to we we got to look
44:54
back at the drawing board. Sometimes things get through
44:57
because it's like, Nah, I really want to do.
44:59
I think it's going to be a hit all right, I trust you to move
45:03
forward with that. But when we get up from that
45:05
table that we all on that page whether we all agreed with it or
45:09
not. Does it ever happen?
45:10
Does it ever happen? Like, I think there's gonna be a
45:12
hit and. Then it's not oh all.
45:14
This like I told you? Yeah.
45:15
All the time you'd say it in your mind, you're like I told
45:18
you in your mind, but all the time or something that you
45:21
didn't believe was gonna work and then it's a hit and you,
45:24
you're like, shit, I should have kept my mouth shut.
45:26
Right. So we, we definitely have that,
45:30
that, that, that space and time. And we give each other grace in
45:33
that too, because I think that's important for a Group 1 is you
45:39
have to give grace and you have to understand that.
45:42
And it's because that's a whole podcast, how to work in a group
45:47
setting. Not a lot of people can work
45:50
with five partners to have five different perspectives.
45:53
And five different experiences of some of you worked here, some
45:57
of you worked there. Which part of the world?
45:59
The other part of the world it's.
46:00
Very, it's really interesting and it's, it's, it's something
46:04
that I think needs to be talked about at some point, right?
46:08
But by working in a group setting like that, we're, you
46:13
know, we've learned we and when things are built on true,
46:16
genuine relationship, you're able to give grace a lot more
46:20
than if it was just a professional relationship.
46:22
So my last chef job, I, I had a big team with a lot of talented
46:25
chefs as well. And we'd get into these
46:27
situations where I was like, no, I like this, I like this.
46:29
And I would, I would always as the head, I would always sit
46:32
back. Yeah, I would just listen,
46:34
listen, listen. And I would always say I carry
46:36
51% of the vote. I won't exercise my right to
46:39
vote unless I have to, right. So every now and again I'd have
46:41
to step in and say, OK, I know all of you are against me, but
46:45
just trust me or something. And or sometimes you'd be like,
46:47
hey, I know all of you really want this, but it ain't gonna
46:50
happen. But let me just let me just
46:51
shatter your dreams. Then it's not going on the menu.
46:54
Right, right, right, right. We have those moments too.
46:57
We have those moments too, man it and and The thing is most of
47:01
us like, you know, we have Ladino, we got Emmer and Hestia.
47:04
So different people play that 51% voting power is different in
47:10
every restaurant. Got it.
47:11
Because of the the unique and the dynamic of business that we
47:16
have and how we set it up. Or is it also sometimes maybe
47:19
the the chef understands this type of food better?
47:21
Exactly right, So. I so there's a lot more trust.
47:24
In that I I trust you know what you're doing with.
47:26
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
47:29
I do want to ask you about if you, if you had to distill all
47:36
the wisdom that came from opening restaurants, the UPS,
47:39
the downs, the the successes and the failures for the people that
47:42
are listening. What is something that hey, you
47:44
might not think about this, but before you open up a restaurant,
47:47
make sure you look at these three things.
47:49
Numbers, numbers. Understand your numbers.
47:52
Understand how to count money and how to spend money.
47:56
That's the two most important things.
47:58
You can have $1,000,000 if you don't know how to spend it.
48:00
You do not have $1,000,000. You add $1,000,000.
48:03
You need to know how to count money, understanding your
48:07
budgets and P and LS I say numbers first restaurant is I,
48:15
I, I view the restaurant and then and then there's restaurant
48:19
business. Too many people focus on the
48:22
restaurant, not enough time on the restaurant business.
48:27
If we are able to communicate and get the right deal, the
48:32
right rent, the right team around you, that doesn't cost
48:39
you so much. So understanding your labor
48:43
budget and then and then building upon that, it gives you
48:50
more room for the three because typically a restaurant, they're
48:56
not, you're not when you open a restaurant, you're not fully
48:59
paying off that loan for like 5 years, right?
49:01
That's typically when everybody's paid back.
49:05
So you have to set up your business knowing that in five
49:10
years when everyone is paid back, what is the play after
49:14
that? And if you don't have your
49:16
budget in line to set you up for success after everyone is paid
49:21
off and you don't have this big overhead labor budget or your
49:25
food cost is crazy, you're able to make bigger moves after five
49:30
years is opening at one restaurant.
49:32
And one restaurant is not going to get you nowhere.
49:34
You need to. When you get to a space where
49:36
you're accumulating great talent, you can't keep them in
49:40
the same space, especially when you're the head.
49:44
So understanding what that looks and feels like, it's something
49:48
that's very important, the restaurant business.
49:51
It's not just restaurant. So understand your business,
49:55
negotiating your contracts, making sure that your cost is in
49:59
line, creating AP and L that truly respects profit and at the
50:04
minimum, not the maximum. That's very important.
50:09
And then the next thing is being patient.
50:14
Too many times people want to switch so fast because they
50:19
heard somebody say something or too many guests said the jerk
50:24
chicken is too hot. So they're like, now we need to
50:26
do a mild version. And what that does is it dilutes
50:29
your brand. Don't dilute your brand.
50:33
Stay focused and connected. Now there's things it's not
50:36
going to work and you're going to have to change it, but don't
50:39
don't change the core value of who you are and you change who
50:43
you are as a value. That guest feels and sees it and
50:46
they lose trust. And if I lose trust in you just
50:49
one time at a restaurant, I'm never, you're never going to get
50:53
that back. Even if I come in and dine once
50:55
in a while, I'm still not really trusting you.
50:58
So that would be my thing numbers, believing in your core
51:07
values and being patient. If if you were going to give
51:13
advice to a young chef coming into the industry right now and
51:17
you look back on your career back to when you were just
51:20
starting as a line cook, what advice would you give them to
51:23
help them succeed in today's industry?
51:26
Take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself
51:30
to every good opportunity that presents itself to you and and
51:35
don't be afraid to fail. As a young chef, your ego gets
51:41
in the way. A lot of times.
51:44
I've had to swallow my ego a lot of times, Whether that's someone
51:48
making an inappropriate racial comment, whether that's someone
51:54
you know, making a comment about how tall I am and how I'm making
51:58
cupcakes. There was a lot of reason.
52:02
Whatever people make comments that I'm from the Caribbean and
52:05
they don't want to stay in my lingo, whatever it is, I've,
52:09
I've been through the gamut. I choose not to focus on those
52:13
things because I, I truly believe that, you know, you're,
52:20
you're going to be OK, You're going to be OK.
52:23
As humans, we're going to be OK. So, you know, really taking that
52:29
to, that's what I would say. I always ask people this, having
52:36
a pastry background, if you had to put a Mount Rushmore of the
52:39
four greatest pastry chefs of all time, who who's on that
52:43
Mount Rushmore of pastry chef? For you guys, that's rough.
52:48
Let me preface this by saying this, all right?
52:50
I am different in the pastry world in in, in this world
52:55
already. I, I hardly look at what other
52:58
people are doing and that's the truth.
53:01
If I work with someone, I respect their hustle.
53:05
I'll go with that. I don't see anyone and say, oh
53:10
man, there I I don't have that in me.
53:13
I only respect people that I know.
53:17
That's my thing. I I mean, I shouldn't say that,
53:20
that sounds weird. I do respect, but as far as
53:23
craft, 'cause there's a lot of really talented chefs we've.
53:26
Seen it, You've tasted it, you've seen.
53:27
Right. There's a lot of talented chefs
53:29
we know that are assholes, bro. Yeah, that are terrible people.
53:33
And we look at them and we admire.
53:35
Oh man, it's so cool. It's like they say, don't meet
53:37
your heroes. Exactly so so I I keep mind
53:40
saying so like like, you know, I can't remember.
53:44
I'm terrible with names, by the way.
53:45
But Francisco that that is at normal right now.
53:50
He's one that I respected because at 17, he was like, he
53:56
could easily judge me because of how I used to look and care of
53:59
myself. And he he's like, Nah, you got
54:02
something push. I have another patient chef that
54:08
worked with me at the River Cafe, Ellen Sterno.
54:11
She was really good and she kind of she, what she taught me was
54:18
how to chill because coming from the River Cafe come from the
54:23
beginning with, with Francisco, it was like militant and she was
54:28
like, no, we talented people, we can make this fun too.
54:31
So it was different. It was a very different energy
54:33
that she brought into space. And then another chef.
54:43
My chef. You know what?
54:45
Paula Velez. OK, yeah, that's she introduced.
54:49
Me to her. Yes, that that young lady is so
54:54
talented and it's one of the smartest.
54:57
Like when we talk about understanding business and art,
55:05
she walks that line. She, she, she completely
55:08
understands the business and for being as young as she is and
55:12
being able to achieve the things that she's been able to achieve,
55:15
I think that I, I admire her work and I see it and I touch
55:20
it. It's amazing if you had a chef's
55:24
PSA out there that that you would say to the world, either
55:26
start doing this or stop doing this chef's what would it be?
55:30
Stop thinking you're not good enough and start thinking that
55:35
you belong where you are. And by thinking that you belong
55:40
where you are, it humbles you a little bit because you're not
55:45
striving. You don't have anything to
55:47
prove. You've earned the the, the
55:50
you've earned the space you stand in.
55:53
What you have to work on is to get to the next level.
55:57
So stop fighting for more room in the space that you have
56:02
already occupied. You have it already and stop
56:07
thinking that you're not good enough.
56:09
A lot of times it's in our head. Sometimes some of the most
56:13
smartest people that we meet is not the smartest people that we
56:17
meet. Some of the most wealthiest
56:20
people that we meet, it's not the smartest people that we
56:22
meet. Opportunities show up for
56:26
different people in different spaces, and they've just been
56:31
really good at taking advantage of an opportunity that shows up.
56:35
You can too, so you're not there because you just haven't gotten
56:40
there yet. But believe and trust that you
56:43
will get what you deserve. That was beautiful show.
56:47
Where, where, Where can people find you?
56:50
Man so 1 you can find me on Instagram 12/19 I try to respond
56:56
and communicate. I could be can answer a lot of
56:59
questions on there. Don't don't don't send nothing
57:02
under any post that I put up. I do not respond to anything
57:05
under a post. Send me a private message and I
57:08
will respond that way. Or you can find me at Pullman
57:13
Market most of my time now is there.
57:17
Or you can tap in at any one of the restaurants, whether that's
57:21
Kanji, Hesia, Emer, Kalimoto in Austin, one day out of the week
57:28
or once every two weeks. I'll be in every location so I'm
57:33
still boots on the ground but majority at a time.
57:35
I'm at Pullman these days. Well, thank you chef.
57:38
It was good catching up. Yeah, man, it's been great.
57:40
Thank you so much for having me bro.
57:42
Yeah, thank you. Well, I hope you enjoyed that
57:44
episode. If you want to support the show,
57:45
if you're watching on YouTube, hit the like and subscribe
57:47
button. If you're listening on Apple or
57:49
Spotify or anywhere else, make sure you leave five stars.
57:52
It's a five star podcast. I'm a five star man.
57:54
If you want to get chef brains, I have lots of books available,
57:57
English, Spanish, Italian. Some are free.
58:01
You got free ebooks. Go to chefspsa.com where you get
58:03
all of that. If you want early access to
58:06
podcast episodes, you could become a subscriber on Spotify
58:10
and also on Sub Stack. We'll see you next week.
58:13
Hit the porno music no? Small drink in the kitchen.
58:16
Mix it. Drop the chef Dallas No fiction.
58:19
Stirring up the beats. Heat enough the session.
58:22
Listen. Close classes in session.