Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Is Nolan Gorman finally hitting his stride?

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Is Nolan Gorman finally hitting his stride? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. It's Tuesday. I almost
0:10
Speaker 1: forgot what day it was. Cardinals snapped a five game
0:13
Speaker 1: losing streak against the Miami Marlins Monday night.
0:15
Speaker 2: They won eight to three.
0:16
Speaker 1: Took advantage of a pretty sloppy game from the Marlins defensively,
0:19
Speaker 1: but really a strong offensive showing across the board in
0:22
Speaker 1: terms of quality.
0:23
Speaker 2: Of a batch at bats, selection and just.
0:26
Speaker 1: All around a good offensive game. It was much needed
0:29
Speaker 1: after the home stand. Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. Coming
0:32
Speaker 1: to you from the media workroom at Loan Depot Park.
0:36
Speaker 2: Katie is here. Bernie is here. Bernie, how are you.
0:40
Speaker 3: I'm doing good. Good to see you again. Yeah, you
0:42
Speaker 3: ought to set up out there. You should have set
0:44
Speaker 3: up in the outfield somewhere. Nobody's sitting out there. You
0:47
Speaker 3: could like in the outfield seats.
0:49
Speaker 2: That was my second, my second thought.
0:50
Speaker 1: But as we were about to record, it was gonna
0:52
Speaker 1: be like during starting line of announcements in the National
0:55
Speaker 1: So even though they're like, I think the official attendance
0:58
Speaker 1: yesterday was like under nine, it would be like the
1:01
Speaker 1: one time during this game that it was actually going
1:04
Speaker 1: to be noisy.
1:04
Speaker 2: So media work groove.
1:05
Speaker 3: It is okay, sounds good. We'll roll all right.
1:09
Speaker 2: So a couple of housekeeping items first.
1:11
Speaker 1: We talked to Nolan Arnado today in the dugout of
1:15
Speaker 1: the Marlin Stadium and he, as we know, is working
1:18
Speaker 1: out in Jupiter at the Cardinal Spring training Complex and
1:21
Speaker 1: says that he is getting closer and closer between pain
1:23
Speaker 1: free and that right shoulder. Is hopeful that he'll be
1:25
Speaker 1: able to start taking swings on Friday and begin a
1:28
Speaker 1: throwing program on Monday. He's right now just doing strength
1:31
Speaker 1: and conditioning, meeting with personal trainers out in Jupiter, but
1:34
Speaker 1: again hoping by Friday to resume baseball activities from the
1:37
Speaker 1: offensive side and start that throwing program next week. Still
1:40
Speaker 1: no timetable for Nolan's return, but both he and the
1:42
Speaker 1: team are optimistic and dare I say confident that he
1:46
Speaker 1: will return at some point at the end of the season.
1:48
Speaker 1: He is one of three players, of course, on the
1:50
Speaker 1: injured list, Victor Scott the second one. On Sunday with
1:52
Speaker 1: that left angle spring, Brendan Donovan hits the il, which
1:55
Speaker 1: brings us to our first topic of the day. Bernie
1:58
Speaker 1: Jose for me is up, He's actually here. Cardinals are
2:01
Speaker 1: playing with a full roster today, full active roster for
2:04
Speaker 1: the saint Less Cardinals round upluse took him a while,
2:06
Speaker 1: took him about over a week.
2:07
Speaker 2: To do, so how about that?
2:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, no look on Jose for mean of course, but
2:11
Speaker 1: at this point of the season, with rookie eligibility status
2:13
Speaker 1: being able to be saved until twenty twenty six, the
2:16
Speaker 1: big question from the fan base is if Brendan Donovan
2:19
Speaker 1: is on the IL, where is JJ Weatherholt. Bernie, you
2:22
Speaker 1: had Cardinals manager Alie Marmle on your show today on
2:24
Speaker 1: Kama Wex, The Gas House Gang.
2:26
Speaker 2: JJ Weatherholt was a topic. What was your takeaway for
2:28
Speaker 2: that answer?
2:29
Speaker 3: You know, this will sound stupid, but I don't even
2:32
Speaker 3: remember what he said. I don't think he really said
2:34
Speaker 3: anything of magnitude. I think he was you know, it's
2:37
Speaker 3: not his decision, so I think he was just trying
2:39
Speaker 3: to be diplomatic and you know, not jump into that pool.
2:43
Speaker 3: You know. So what he said though, and he has
2:46
Speaker 3: told you and everyone else this repeatedly. He's very, very
2:51
Speaker 3: very impressed everything to do with JJ Weatherholt, including you know,
2:54
Speaker 3: his demeanor, his professionalism, the way he conducts himself, the
2:59
Speaker 3: other players and camp really respected them and liked them.
3:03
Speaker 3: So I think Ali's got the full embrace for JJ
3:07
Speaker 3: Weatherhol But it's not his call, you know, it's the
3:09
Speaker 3: front office call, and he understands that, and what are
3:12
Speaker 3: you going to do? You know, manager does not get
3:14
Speaker 3: to make the decisions on who they're going to put
3:16
Speaker 3: on the forty man roster.
3:18
Speaker 1: Correct And this is something that maybe it's a little
3:21
Speaker 1: difficult because we have essentially two front offices in charge
3:23
Speaker 1: of the decision. John Mozelak is still doing the forty
3:26
Speaker 1: man roster decisions until the end of the season. But
3:28
Speaker 1: starting JJ Weatherhold's service time, starting his clock, if you will,
3:31
Speaker 1: is a high and bloom decision. And it's not like
3:34
Speaker 1: the Cardinals have to add JJ to the forty man roster.
3:37
Speaker 1: It's not a protection year for him. It is a
3:39
Speaker 1: protection year for several other players in the organization. And
3:43
Speaker 1: I know that's not the answer the fans want to hear,
3:45
Speaker 1: but it does absolutely factor into these kinds of decisions.
3:48
Speaker 2: We actually talked to JJ last week.
3:51
Speaker 1: He was named over the weekend the Cardinals Player of
3:53
Speaker 1: the Month in the minor leagues for the month of July,
3:56
Speaker 1: and there are some things that the organization still wants
3:57
Speaker 1: him to work on, namely being more time I'm at
4:00
Speaker 1: third base. He's like, I haven't really played third base
4:02
Speaker 1: since my freshman year of college. It's still pretty and
4:05
Speaker 1: new to me. I'm playing there about twice a week.
4:07
Speaker 1: We're going to see where it goes. And that's important
4:09
Speaker 1: because as you look towards twenty twenty six, there are
4:12
Speaker 1: a lot of holes about what that infield looks like.
4:14
Speaker 1: You have a third baseman right now and Nolan Arnatto
4:17
Speaker 1: on the roster, no guarantee he's back on twenty twenty six,
4:20
Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman, and I'm sure we'll get to him.
4:22
Speaker 2: Bernie.
4:22
Speaker 1: I know that you've had some things to say about Gorman.
4:24
Speaker 1: Has looked great at the plate, but not so much
4:26
Speaker 1: at the hot corner. Would third base be a place
4:28
Speaker 1: for JJ next year? I think that's a question that
4:31
Speaker 1: the Cardinals are trying to figure out. So he needs
4:34
Speaker 1: to find those reps at third in Memphis right now.
4:37
Speaker 2: You now, he can play around the diamond. He's a
4:38
Speaker 2: talented enough athlete to be able to do so.
4:40
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone is really concerned over JJ Weatherhold's
4:42
Speaker 1: overall athleticism, but there are reasons why he's still in
4:46
Speaker 1: Triple A. I understand it's not the popular answer. It's
4:49
Speaker 1: not the answer fans want to hear. I mean, he's
4:50
Speaker 1: club nine homers for Memphis. He has an OPS over
4:52
Speaker 1: one thousand. He is the true talent. I think we
4:56
Speaker 1: sometimes as a fan base, as an industry at Saint
4:59
Speaker 1: Louis media tend to overhype prospects. There is a difference
5:03
Speaker 1: between a first round, second round draft pick and a
5:06
Speaker 1: top ten draft pick. And that's what makes J. J.
5:08
Speaker 1: Weatherholt the alert even more exciting. There but not yet
5:12
Speaker 1: time to see him and the answer. I get this,
5:15
Speaker 1: a loperty, and I'm sure you do too. The big
5:17
Speaker 1: question that we get from fans is, well, right around
5:20
Speaker 1: this time, the Cardinals called that Mason Win.
5:21
Speaker 2: And it's true.
5:22
Speaker 1: I think yesterday was the date of Mason Win's major
5:25
Speaker 1: league debut.
5:26
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three.
5:29
Speaker 1: Right around the same time, teams a different record but
5:31
Speaker 1: kind of the same, focusing on the future, focusing on
5:33
Speaker 1: the rebuild. You could call him up and get him
5:35
Speaker 1: every day reps. I think it's a little different from
5:38
Speaker 1: the Mason Win situation because in twenty twenty three, the
5:41
Speaker 1: Cardinals didn't have to do a lot of forty man protection
5:45
Speaker 1: moves they had to make. In fact, they non tenured
5:47
Speaker 1: a ton of guys at the end of that season
5:49
Speaker 1: so they could allow Mason Win to get on the
5:51
Speaker 1: forty man I'm not sure that's the case this year.
5:54
Speaker 1: It's the boring answer. Fans are gonna roll their eyes.
5:56
Speaker 1: I get it, but it is one that an organization
5:59
Speaker 1: has to consider from the as the side of things.
6:01
Speaker 2: Do I like it?
6:02
Speaker 3: No?
6:02
Speaker 1: I want to see JJ weatherhole, but this is not
6:04
Speaker 1: something that we can just do based on this player's ready.
6:08
Speaker 1: Maybe not, let's bring them up. Obviously, other things are
6:11
Speaker 1: going to factor into this decision.
6:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple of things. I totally get the I
6:16
Speaker 3: totally understand where the team's coming from on this. I
6:19
Speaker 3: try to understand things because I want to be fair.
6:22
Speaker 3: But you know, I was just doing a simple exercise
6:25
Speaker 3: with a couple of my friends, you know, a couple
6:27
Speaker 3: of whom follow the Cardinals closely and actually do some
6:30
Speaker 3: media work, And we were going through their forty man roster,
6:32
Speaker 3: and we were also looking at minor league players that
6:34
Speaker 3: they have to add, and we all agree that you know, yeah,
6:39
Speaker 3: it's easy for us to say it can be done,
6:41
Speaker 3: it's really not a crisis, and I really think it
6:44
Speaker 3: could be done, and I don't think it's a crisis.
6:47
Speaker 3: I think they can make those cuts so they can
6:49
Speaker 3: sort of mentally remove certain guys and there'd be plenty
6:52
Speaker 3: of room that JJ weatherhole. But again, it's easy for
6:55
Speaker 3: me to say, it's easy for you to say, but
6:58
Speaker 3: I'm a little baffled why they're hung up on this.
7:03
Speaker 3: I do think though, once again me trying to be fair,
7:06
Speaker 3: I do think though the Jamazak wants to keep everything
7:10
Speaker 3: clean for heim Bloom and his people and all the
7:14
Speaker 3: minor league people, because they may have a whole different
7:17
Speaker 3: view of some of these prospects, and they may be
7:20
Speaker 3: the ones telling him we'd rather keep this clean for now,
7:23
Speaker 3: you know, because we think there's some guys there that
7:25
Speaker 3: are a little under the radar we have to add,
7:28
Speaker 3: and we really don't want to risk losing them. Now.
7:31
Speaker 3: That could be I don't want to say crying wolf,
7:34
Speaker 3: but you know, it may not be as urgent as that.
7:36
Speaker 3: But I do understand on principle why John Moziek would
7:39
Speaker 3: want to keep that spot open, just to keep it
7:42
Speaker 3: nice and clean for the Bloom regime when they take over.
7:45
Speaker 3: So I don't know, Katie, you've covered the team Saints
7:49
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, right, I believe. So why do the
7:53
Speaker 3: Cardinals always have to make everything so complicated? I mean
7:56
Speaker 3: that's the bigger thing where it's like it's just never
8:00
Speaker 3: just like with whether you put someone on the il
8:03
Speaker 3: or not, and whether you do this, and what do
8:05
Speaker 3: you do that you're playing shorthanded? It's like, why is
8:07
Speaker 3: it always almost like a self created issue that, you know,
8:11
Speaker 3: where there's drama thrown in where there should be no drama.
8:14
Speaker 3: You know, they they I don't think the new regime
8:19
Speaker 3: will be like this. I don't, but the Cardinals are
8:22
Speaker 3: amazing to be the way they overcomplicate everything. And you know,
8:26
Speaker 3: and if I you don't mind me throwing this in,
8:28
Speaker 3: you know, before you got here, you know, I used
8:30
Speaker 3: to make fun and I think I think Derek Golden
8:35
Speaker 3: some others would get irritated with me. I used to
8:36
Speaker 3: make fun of it, just like what, like, why is
8:39
Speaker 3: this like splitting the atom? Because all we ever hear
8:42
Speaker 3: and this preceded your arrival, all we ever hear all
8:45
Speaker 3: the times, Like well, they got to keep spots open
8:48
Speaker 3: on the forty man or it's like, oh, no, you
8:50
Speaker 3: can't bring him up because then you know you'd have
8:53
Speaker 3: to put him on the forty man. And I always
8:55
Speaker 3: joke and say, are the Cardinals all that talented? Where
8:58
Speaker 3: they have more great talent and they know what to
9:01
Speaker 3: do with are you kidney? It's easy to find a
9:04
Speaker 3: forty man spot for a talented player. And so that's
9:07
Speaker 3: why I'm cranky about it, because I've been listening to
9:10
Speaker 3: this nonsense for years and years and years and years,
9:13
Speaker 3: and it just again, they love to make things overly complicated.
9:18
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but they do.
9:20
Speaker 1: I think of all the criticisms of the Cardinals organization
9:23
Speaker 1: over the last five six years, the forty man roster
9:25
Speaker 1: construction is the most fair one I've said out on
9:27
Speaker 1: the last couple of shows. It's one thing that has
9:30
Speaker 1: baffled me since arriving on the beat is how it's managed.
9:33
Speaker 1: And they're obviously things that are going on behind the
9:36
Speaker 1: scenes that I'm not aware of or again don't understand.
9:39
Speaker 1: But yes, how the Cardinals have navigated the forty man
9:43
Speaker 1: roster has directly correlated to where they are right.
9:45
Speaker 2: Now aka not in a good place, and it.
9:47
Speaker 1: Will be on the new front office the hind bluem
9:50
Speaker 1: Era to start making those changes. Got a lot of
9:53
Speaker 1: work to do in front of that. Bernie will be
9:55
Speaker 1: right back here on Cardinal Territory. First that we got
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11:08
Speaker 1: Okay, Bernie, let's talk about a guy that you've been
11:10
Speaker 1: pretty high on as of late, and rightfully so. Smapped
11:12
Speaker 1: a two run homer left on left in Monday's eight
11:15
Speaker 1: three went over the Marlins. Is Nolan Gorman finally hitting
11:18
Speaker 1: his stride offensively?
11:20
Speaker 3: He seems to be. I asked Ali marml that today
11:23
Speaker 3: on on Camorks, and he's very high on Nolan Gorman.
11:28
Speaker 3: I listen, I know that Nolan Gorman's gonna have to
11:32
Speaker 3: prove it over time, you know. But if you go
11:34
Speaker 3: back to late May, like basically his last fifty one games,
11:38
Speaker 3: and there were a couple of interruptions, but his last
11:41
Speaker 3: fifty one games, he leads the Cardinals in way to runs,
11:44
Speaker 3: creative plus, he's thirty seven percent above average. He leads
11:47
Speaker 3: them in slugging percentage five hundred. He leads them in ops,
11:52
Speaker 3: he just moved ahead of Contreras. He's second in ll
11:57
Speaker 3: he leads them in walk rate, which is a really
11:59
Speaker 3: good part of his game. Now, over the last fifty
12:02
Speaker 3: one games that he's played in, you know, his walk
12:05
Speaker 3: rates twelve point four percent. That's excellent. He's not swinging
12:09
Speaker 3: and missing as much, he's not striking out as much,
12:11
Speaker 3: he's not chasing as much, and he seems to have
12:14
Speaker 3: figured something out. If you look even his on base
12:17
Speaker 3: percentage because of the walks, he's second on the team
12:21
Speaker 3: since late May in that category as well. And you know,
12:26
Speaker 3: if you look at what else I got here, well
12:30
Speaker 3: i'll leave it at that. I mean, he's his numbers
12:32
Speaker 3: across the board are like either first or second among Cardinals,
12:36
Speaker 3: and even batting average, he's fourth among Cardinals and batting average,
12:41
Speaker 3: but he's got a two fifty three average in his
12:43
Speaker 3: last fifty one game. So for Nolan Gorman, that's outstanding
12:47
Speaker 3: and so the other thing I'll throw in about him
12:50
Speaker 3: and then I'll shut up. You know, last night he
12:52
Speaker 3: hit his fifth home run against a left handed pitcher
12:55
Speaker 3: this year. That's a new career high for him. He's
12:57
Speaker 3: never done that. And you know, he he doesn't have
13:00
Speaker 3: a good batting average against left handed pictures, but he
13:04
Speaker 3: has a lot of impact against them. Like, for example,
13:07
Speaker 3: among the other left handed hitters the Cardinals have, right
13:11
Speaker 3: Nolan Gorman leads them with five home runs, he leads
13:14
Speaker 3: against lefty pictures. He leads them in slugging percentage, he
13:18
Speaker 3: leads them in ops. He's twelve percent average based on
13:23
Speaker 3: way to runs creative plus, so he's even moved ahead
13:26
Speaker 3: of Alec Burlason in that regard. And I'm a little
13:29
Speaker 3: mystified because it seems to me like he's not getting
13:32
Speaker 3: enough run on this like where people are saying, wow,
13:34
Speaker 3: look at these numbers. These are not Nolan Gorman type numbers.
13:37
Speaker 3: Maybe he's figured it out, so listen, I just like
13:42
Speaker 3: everybody else, when Nolan Gorman's going through these valleys and
13:44
Speaker 3: he's swinging and missing and he's striking out like crazy,
13:47
Speaker 3: I'm happy to write about not happy, but I write
13:50
Speaker 3: about that. I never ducked that. But I think when
13:53
Speaker 3: a guy's gone as well as he's gone, and he's
13:55
Speaker 3: made as so much progress as he is, I think
13:57
Speaker 3: we should take notice. Not you, I'm not lecturing you
14:00
Speaker 3: or anyone else. I'm I'm using I'm using the Wii
14:03
Speaker 3: as in all of our people. You know, we need
14:06
Speaker 3: to take more notice of this. I don't know. I
14:09
Speaker 3: think people have sort of made up their mind on
14:12
Speaker 3: him a little bit and they made me need to
14:13
Speaker 3: take a second look. He's doing some really good things.
14:16
Speaker 3: Now he's got to show that he can sustain.
14:18
Speaker 1: And that's the key, sustainability. And when you're looking at
14:22
Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman, I'll read some Baseball savonstats.
14:24
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up the walk rate.
14:25
Speaker 1: That to me is a huge sign that whatever changes
14:28
Speaker 1: he's made early in the season are paying off more consistently.
14:31
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about a player who is kind
14:33
Speaker 1: of redoing his entire swing, of course, those things aren't
14:36
Speaker 1: going to come into force immediately, right, It's going to
14:38
Speaker 1: take some time. No one comes in and overhauls an
14:41
Speaker 1: entire swing and gets a write in seven days.
14:43
Speaker 2: Sometimes it takes three, four or five months.
14:46
Speaker 1: So when you look at Nolan Gorman, who has a
14:47
Speaker 1: twelve point six walk rate that's in the eighty eighth
14:50
Speaker 1: percentile of the sport right now. In twenty twenty four,
14:52
Speaker 1: that walk rate was eight point five percent, so already
14:55
Speaker 1: a huge jump there.
14:56
Speaker 2: Another huge jump the strikeout rate.
14:58
Speaker 1: We know that Nolan Gorman had a whiff and strikeout
15:01
Speaker 1: percentage that were bottom tier in baseball last year. I
15:04
Speaker 1: mean that strikeout percentage was thirty seven point six percent,
15:07
Speaker 1: the rate was thirty eight point seven. Very few players
15:11
Speaker 1: in all of baseball had worse marks than that. Twenty
15:13
Speaker 1: twenty five still not great, but big improvements. That weight
15:17
Speaker 1: with rate, excuse me, is down to thirty two to
15:19
Speaker 1: four and the shrikeout rates below thirty at twenty nine.
15:22
Speaker 1: So for his player prototype you mentioned the average, he's
15:26
Speaker 1: always gonna have a little bit of swing and miss
15:27
Speaker 1: in his game. That's the trade off for big power.
15:29
Speaker 1: He's hitting the ball more consistently. The strikeout rate has
15:32
Speaker 1: gone down, the walk rate has gone up, and it
15:34
Speaker 1: should translate to more results. I think the big a
15:38
Speaker 1: big misconception of this runway year is that by the
15:41
Speaker 1: end of the season, the Cardinals needed.
15:42
Speaker 2: To know if they had superstars or not, that's not true.
15:45
Speaker 1: At the end of the season, the Cardinals need to
15:47
Speaker 1: know a one which players had taken the most strides
15:51
Speaker 1: and they can count on for twenty twenty six b
15:53
Speaker 1: which players did not take you know, had the opposite effect,
15:56
Speaker 1: took steps back, didn't progress, so they can adjust from there.
16:00
Speaker 1: They are going to have answers on players at the
16:01
Speaker 1: end of the season, regardless of what the step like,
16:03
Speaker 1: regardless of if they all were sorry. I think the
16:06
Speaker 1: national anthem's going off right now is very loud. Non
16:10
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if I would have done this out
16:12
Speaker 1: of actual stadium.
16:13
Speaker 2: I can hear it in the media room.
16:15
Speaker 3: I was I was going to suggest that should we sing?
16:17
Speaker 3: Should we? I know? So anyway, go ahead, go ahead.
16:21
Speaker 1: At the end of the runway season, the Cardinals are
16:24
Speaker 1: going to have answers or they may not be like
16:26
Speaker 1: every single player is a superstar, but they have always
16:28
Speaker 1: done a very good job of developing supplementary players. And
16:31
Speaker 1: can Nolan Gorman be that supplementary bat? I think so,
16:35
Speaker 1: And you know it's going to take until the very
16:37
Speaker 1: end of the season for him to prove it. But
16:38
Speaker 1: we're definitely in a much better direction offensively for Nolan Gorman.
16:42
Speaker 3: He's listen, he's gonna have to get better defensive. We
16:45
Speaker 3: all know that. So I don't feel like, you know,
16:47
Speaker 3: kind of emphasizing that because it's something we know. But
16:51
Speaker 3: I think the more reps he gets his third base
16:52
Speaker 3: and I know around may come back. But you know,
16:54
Speaker 3: Gorman has not started that many games in the big
16:57
Speaker 3: leagues at third base, and I think he's starting to
16:59
Speaker 3: settle in a little bit. But yeah, I'm conceding that
17:02
Speaker 3: defense is an issue. I think again, we all know that.
17:05
Speaker 3: But here's the Here's here's the long view. I think
17:07
Speaker 3: this ties into what you said. Here's the long view.
17:12
Speaker 3: The long view look at Nolan Gorman. The Cardinals are
17:16
Speaker 3: terribly short on power. They really are. Like whether if
17:21
Speaker 3: we go bet, if we if I use like at
17:25
Speaker 3: bats per home run, like their home run ratio, it
17:29
Speaker 3: would be if it holds what it is now and
17:31
Speaker 3: it's really really bad, it would be their lowest home
17:35
Speaker 3: run rate since like twenty and fifteen, and then before
17:39
Speaker 3: that twenty and fourteen. I mean, they're isolated powers, terrible
17:43
Speaker 3: ranking their whole you know, home run rate less than
17:46
Speaker 3: a home run per game, And I know that. I
17:49
Speaker 3: know that there's you can't like totally depend on home runs.
17:54
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying they should. But when you you're
17:57
Speaker 3: not a good small ball team because you're not athletic,
17:59
Speaker 3: you don't steal, he says, you don't run the base
18:01
Speaker 3: as well. They don't do they don't execute small ball stuff.
18:04
Speaker 3: I mean, look at their sacrifice bunt success rate. It's
18:08
Speaker 3: one of the worst in baseball. What they have the
18:10
Speaker 3: second worst productive out percentage in the National League. They
18:13
Speaker 3: don't play small ball. They're not good at it. And
18:15
Speaker 3: I asked Ali about that a couple three weeks ago,
18:17
Speaker 3: and he even said, he said, that's the one thing
18:19
Speaker 3: that disappoints me the most. And he was taking it
18:22
Speaker 3: hard because he feels it's his responsibility. So if you
18:25
Speaker 3: can't play small ball really really well and you can't
18:29
Speaker 3: hit home runs, you're you're really at a disadvantage in
18:32
Speaker 3: the power game. I would suggest to people that have
18:36
Speaker 3: sort of thrown in the towel or think at all
18:39
Speaker 3: Gorman's never going to do anything for an organization that
18:45
Speaker 3: is like just so bereft of power. You can't take
18:49
Speaker 3: this lightly. This guy can make a difference. And I'm
18:52
Speaker 3: like you. No one is saying that this is a
18:54
Speaker 3: big superstar, but you need power in your lineup, especially
18:58
Speaker 3: in its right handed hitting and pitching. And he's even
19:01
Speaker 3: starting to show he can hit for power against lefties.
19:04
Speaker 3: He's confident, he's in a good place. His head's clear.
19:07
Speaker 3: Brent Brown's been good for him. And don't be so
19:11
Speaker 3: quick to anyone skeptical listening to us or watching us.
19:14
Speaker 3: And you know, I think I can say we all
19:17
Speaker 3: love you. It's nothing personal, But don't be so quick
19:21
Speaker 3: to like, you know, pull the plug on Nolan Gorman.
19:25
Speaker 3: I mean, he could make a tremendous difference for this
19:29
Speaker 3: team in the coming years, and he looks like he
19:31
Speaker 3: might be turning the corner.
19:33
Speaker 1: He doesn't need to be the star. A lot of
19:34
Speaker 1: these guys don't need to be the star. Von Herrera
19:36
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be the star of the Cardinals. Alec
19:38
Speaker 1: Bilson doesn't need to be the star of the Cardinals,
19:40
Speaker 1: right nol So does Nolan Gorman.
19:42
Speaker 2: They just need. The problem with the Cardinals right now,
19:44
Speaker 2: as we know, Bernie, is that they have so many
19:46
Speaker 2: of the same players.
19:47
Speaker 1: So if the Cardinals had you know, not a lot
19:50
Speaker 1: of dh the exact opposite of what they have right now.
19:52
Speaker 1: They have an udireactive roster of dhs. If Nolan Gorman
19:55
Speaker 1: is one of two dhs, we're not arguing about his
19:58
Speaker 1: future of the team or with the team, because there's
20:01
Speaker 1: a clear place for him as a supplementary piece.
20:03
Speaker 2: He's a BA first left handed power hitter with some
20:06
Speaker 2: serious pop. Good teams have that.
20:09
Speaker 1: That's a really rare thing to find, especially a homegrown talent,
20:12
Speaker 1: because the Cardinals have a slew of players that can
20:15
Speaker 1: pretty much only DH or are best served as a DH,
20:19
Speaker 1: whether that's Von Herrera, whether that's Jordan Walker when he's
20:22
Speaker 1: going well, whether that's Alec Burlson. Although he has taken
20:24
Speaker 1: some strides defensively, that kind of complicates things. Now Nolan
20:28
Speaker 1: Gorman has to find a position defensively for this to work,
20:30
Speaker 1: and that's where things get messy. The Cardinals have to
20:33
Speaker 1: continue to force players to find somewhere to fit even
20:36
Speaker 1: though it doesn't best fill their skill set because of
20:38
Speaker 1: their roster construction and the roster redundancy. So Nolan Gorman,
20:42
Speaker 1: if we're just looking at him based on his skill
20:44
Speaker 1: set and who he is as a player and what
20:46
Speaker 1: his strength suggests, he should be doing the last fifty
20:49
Speaker 1: games or so. Really out of the All Star break,
20:51
Speaker 1: he has shown that he is shown to be able
20:53
Speaker 1: to hit more consistently, hit for more power, cut the
20:55
Speaker 1: strikeout rate down, increase the walk rate, and.
20:58
Speaker 2: Again hit left on left.
20:59
Speaker 1: That's the problem with this, as you and I have
21:02
Speaker 1: just talked about, Bernie, is that because there are so
21:04
Speaker 1: many different players on the Cardinals roster that best suit
21:07
Speaker 1: as a DH, there's not a lot of room for
21:10
Speaker 1: one of them. The supplementary pieces are all kind of
21:12
Speaker 1: combined as one, and it makes it really hard to
21:15
Speaker 1: differentiate who has the better hand going forward. And I
21:18
Speaker 1: think that's the thing the Cardinals will spend September trying
21:20
Speaker 1: to figure out.
21:22
Speaker 3: And I want to throw something else in here. You know,
21:25
Speaker 3: even though Nolan Gorman has gone to hell and back
21:29
Speaker 3: with his swing and miss and his whiffs and terrible slumps,
21:32
Speaker 3: getting sent back down to the miners two or three times, whatever,
21:35
Speaker 3: it is, despite all that, despite all the awful stuff
21:39
Speaker 3: that you know, his career has been these awful times.
21:43
Speaker 3: I should say, right his major league career, he's got
21:47
Speaker 3: a four to thirty three slugging percentage, and it's about
21:50
Speaker 3: four forty against right hand and pitching, and if you
21:52
Speaker 3: go buy ops plus, he's about four or five percent
21:55
Speaker 3: above average in terms of ops plus since he's coming
21:59
Speaker 3: in the major leagues, and that's with all the nasty
22:02
Speaker 3: times he's gone through. So that should tell you something.
22:05
Speaker 3: And I also think too, Katie. You know, I'm assuming
22:08
Speaker 3: I would be shocked that. I'm sure you would be
22:10
Speaker 3: shocked or at least surprised. The Cardinals are gonna have
22:13
Speaker 3: to clear some left handed bats out of here. They
22:15
Speaker 3: just have to. The pieces don't fit. I can't believe
22:18
Speaker 3: heim Bloom will go through the winner without clearing one
22:20
Speaker 3: or two left handed bats out of here.
22:22
Speaker 2: We will do that, he will quick.
22:24
Speaker 3: I just don't think Gorman should be one of them
22:26
Speaker 3: because he has something that none of those other guys
22:29
Speaker 3: can give you powe right, So.
22:33
Speaker 1: Anyway it is, there is staffs for Bernie. I honestly,
22:36
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more with that. That I think is
22:38
Speaker 1: the most accurate part of this whole segment was, Yes,
22:41
Speaker 1: there's a ton of lefty bats in this roster, as
22:43
Speaker 1: we know, but Nolan Gorman has his path alone is
22:47
Speaker 1: something that with respective the players, the other players, none
22:51
Speaker 1: of those that are left handed bats can bring so.
22:53
Speaker 1: Good job, Bernie, crush the segment. We'll be right back
22:55
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Speaker 1: L All right, Bernie, as we look to wrap up
24:02
Speaker 1: this episode because I believe first pitch Michael McGreevey taking
24:06
Speaker 1: them ount for Saint Louis will be happening at any minute.
24:08
Speaker 1: Is there something that you would like to see from
24:10
Speaker 1: McGreevy tonight as he makes another start.
24:14
Speaker 3: No, you know, he's so he's sharp mentally and he's
24:16
Speaker 3: so tough minded. I would just say, do what you
24:19
Speaker 3: do because he knows how to pitch. He really knows
24:24
Speaker 3: how to pitch, and it's almost like he learns every
24:27
Speaker 3: inning he pitches in the major leagues. He's one of
24:30
Speaker 3: these guys that he takes something away from that. He's
24:33
Speaker 3: somebody who understands why something went wrong in inning. He's
24:37
Speaker 3: very self analytical, he's very self aware, and he is
24:41
Speaker 3: extremely focused. So I just just the more he pitches,
24:45
Speaker 3: the better he's going to get. And I really enjoy
24:47
Speaker 3: watching him. And you know, and my conversations with Ali
24:52
Speaker 3: that staff loves McGreevy. They love him because he's a bulldog.
24:55
Speaker 3: He's an absolute bulldog. And I'm not saying the other
24:58
Speaker 3: guys aren't, but there's some then he's got some bite.
25:02
Speaker 3: There's something tough about him that stands out, and I
25:06
Speaker 3: really appreciate the maturity levels off the charts too. It
25:08
Speaker 3: really is because he go ahead.
25:11
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, I was about to say, I completely agree.
25:14
Speaker 1: What's impressed me the most about McGreevy is his demeanor.
25:17
Speaker 1: When you're a pitch to contact guy, and we've seen
25:18
Speaker 1: a lot of them over the last couple of years.
25:21
Speaker 1: You're going to get burned every now and then, you
25:22
Speaker 1: know kind of balls are going to get through. But
25:25
Speaker 1: with McGreevy, when that happens, the game doesn't pick up
25:27
Speaker 1: on him. It doesn't speed up, it doesn't get faster.
25:30
Speaker 1: He's just like, all right, well that's kind of my game.
25:32
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm going to get hit, a slow roller is
25:34
Speaker 1: going to get through. Let me attack the next guy.
25:36
Speaker 1: And he's unfazed. And that kind of maturity is not
25:38
Speaker 1: something that you can teach as soon as you get
25:40
Speaker 1: to the big leagues.
25:40
Speaker 2: That usually comes with experience.
25:42
Speaker 1: He's arrived here mainly because he has so much time
25:44
Speaker 1: to prep and triple A. But he's arrived here and
25:47
Speaker 1: he's had that demeanor and that's what makes him I
25:49
Speaker 1: think a little happy. With respect to the other pictures,
25:51
Speaker 1: of course, a little bit more excitement when McGreevy takes
25:54
Speaker 1: them out, even if his prototype is very similar to
25:56
Speaker 1: that of a Maggie Libertore, of an Andre Polante, of
25:58
Speaker 1: a Miles michaelis in terms of the ground ball rate,
26:01
Speaker 1: his demeanor, especially for such a young, unpolished starter, it's
26:06
Speaker 1: been the most fun thing for me to watch, at
26:08
Speaker 1: least for now.
26:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we also have to look at the bigger picture,
26:12
Speaker 3: which is quickly. The Cardinals obviously need to rebuild their
26:18
Speaker 3: player development as far as developing starting pitching. Okay, and
26:21
Speaker 3: I think they're off to a good start because I
26:23
Speaker 3: think Quent Matthews will be a good picture. I'm not
26:25
Speaker 3: talking about this year. Hold on here, right, I'm my
26:36
Speaker 3: back now, I'll be quick. He you know, Quent Matthews
26:41
Speaker 3: is definitely in the picture. He's got a lot of talent.
26:44
Speaker 3: Liam Doyle's got a lot of talent. There's a couple
26:47
Speaker 3: other guys that are dealing with injuries who have a
26:50
Speaker 3: lot of talent. There's either some guys that are the
26:52
Speaker 3: lower levels that are making them move up. So when
26:56
Speaker 3: we talk about Michael McGreevy, because I've heard this from
26:58
Speaker 3: fans a lot. We've heard like, well, okay, nice kid
27:01
Speaker 3: and all that, but uh, he's not a guy that
27:04
Speaker 3: you build your rotation around. He's not a number one
27:06
Speaker 3: or number two. Nobody's saying that he is. But if
27:10
Speaker 3: all the some of these other young guys are what
27:14
Speaker 3: look at the independent talent evaluators, not not us, look
27:18
Speaker 3: at look at Baseball America, look at MLB pipeline, whatever,
27:22
Speaker 3: Keith Low. If you build your rotation and he's he's
27:27
Speaker 3: a back end starter, that's a you're gonna have a
27:29
Speaker 3: really good rotation if he's your fourth.
27:31
Speaker 2: Or fifthe right exactly exactly.
27:34
Speaker 3: So in other words, we understand where he fits. We're
27:37
Speaker 3: not over hyping him. But right now he's fun to
27:40
Speaker 3: watch because you can see a future and you can
27:43
Speaker 3: see a guy that he just gets it. Nothing flaky,
27:47
Speaker 3: nothing flaky about it.
27:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, big, we are as we have Cardinal Territory. L
27:51
Speaker 1: listeners know big Michael McRee enthusiasts on this show. We're
27:54
Speaker 1: also big enthusiasts for I don't know, maybe a second
27:57
Speaker 1: Cardinals win off to a good start. Larst poop Bar
27:59
Speaker 1: has singles to lead off this ball game that I
28:00
Speaker 1: need to go get to and watch. So for Bernie,
28:04
Speaker 1: I'm Katie. Thanks as always for watching Cardinal territory. We'll
28:06
Speaker 1: be back with you later in the week. I will
28:08
Speaker 1: not be on the Tampa trip. I will finish up
28:10
Speaker 1: with Miami, so we'll be covering from home. Looking forward
28:14
Speaker 1: to breaking it all down, hopefully get a series win
28:16
Speaker 1: here in Miami.
28:17
Speaker 2: Bernie, thanks as always. We'll talk to you guys,