Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Building the Allied Health Workforce of the Future with Van Ton-Quinlivan

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Building the Allied Health Workforce of the Future with Van Ton-Quinlivan · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - Hello, everyone. Welcome to Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm
• 1:02
  - Scott King. Thrilled today to be joined by
• 1:03
  - a very special guest. Once again, it's Von
• 1:06
  - Toan Quinnliven,
• 1:07
  - CEO of Futero Health. Von, how are you?
• 1:10
  - Thanks so much for joining us.
• 1:12
  - Delighted to be here again, Scott.
• 1:14
  - You know, we have a we have a
• 1:15
  - lot to talk about in in health care
• 1:17
  - and and all the work you've done. But
• 1:19
  - first, I was just wondering if you could
• 1:20
  - please tell us a little about your,
• 1:22
  - career background and your journey in health care.
• 1:25
  - My expertise is workforce development, and that spans
• 1:28
  - the private sector, the public sector,
• 1:31
  - and now the the nonprofit sector, CEO of
• 1:33
  - Futura Health. So back in, when I was
• 1:35
  - at the private sector working with a organization
• 1:38
  - of 20,000 men and women, I brought that
• 1:41
  - to from having no opinion in workforce development
• 1:43
  - to becoming a nationally recognized industry best practice,
• 1:47
  - was appointed by the governor to,
• 1:50
  - drive the workforce mission of the largest system
• 1:52
  - of higher education, which is the California Community
• 1:55
  - Colleges.
• 1:56
  - And there, I was invited
• 1:58
  - by Kaiser Permanente
• 1:59
  - and its partners to help them grow the
• 2:02
  - next generation
• 2:03
  - of the health care workforce, specifically the allied
• 2:06
  - health workforce.
• 2:07
  - And so,
• 2:09
  - that's that brings me to my current role
• 2:11
  - as CEO of a national nonprofit,
• 2:13
  - Fintura Health. Appreciate you sharing that background info
• 2:17
  - there,
• 2:17
  - Von. And and, you know, Keiser, as you
• 2:20
  - kinda mentioned, Keiser Permanente asked you to launch
• 2:22
  - Fertura Health in 2020,
• 2:24
  - you know, and that's, you know, as we
• 2:26
  - all remember, that's right as the pandemic was
• 2:28
  - exposing just how fragile the health care workforce
• 2:31
  - really was.
• 2:32
  - What was that moment like for you, and
• 2:35
  - what made you say yes
• 2:37
  - to a mission that had never been done
• 2:39
  - before at at that scale?
• 2:41
  - Well, Kaiser Permanente
• 2:44
  - indeed launched us, in service of the whole
• 2:47
  - industry.
• 2:48
  - As, Troy Clark, the, CEO of new New
• 2:51
  - Mexico,
• 2:52
  - Hospital say o Association
• 2:54
  - says,
• 2:55
  - the pandemic didn't create the workforce crisis. It
• 2:57
  - just exposed a deficit that was already there.
• 3:01
  - So as you know,
• 3:03
  - you know, 75%
• 3:04
  - of facilities already reported a shortage in allied
• 3:06
  - health workers.
• 3:08
  - Even with the adjustments that will happen with
• 3:10
  - HR one this year, next year, and in
• 3:13
  - in the short term, you know, we are
• 3:15
  - facing the aging of America. So I I
• 3:18
  - always refer to three numbers, like
• 3:20
  - twelve, seven, four.
• 3:23
  - You know, back around fifty years ago, we
• 3:26
  - had roughly 11.7
• 3:28
  - working age adults for every person 65.
• 3:32
  - That number has gone down to four as
• 3:35
  - our,
• 3:36
  - population 65
• 3:37
  - has increased, and soon enough, it will be
• 3:39
  - only four,
• 3:41
  - in the workforce. And so as we know,
• 3:43
  - as the population ages, the need for more
• 3:47
  - care and more caregiving
• 3:49
  - will increase.
• 3:50
  - And so we will always
• 3:52
  - be looking at a workforce issue,
• 3:56
  - even though there's short term disruptions from HR
• 3:59
  - one.
• 4:00
  - I know Futuro Health has helped nearly 12,000
• 4:03
  - adults
• 4:04
  - earn their credentials to enter the healthcare workforce,
• 4:07
  - which is a huge accomplishment,
• 4:08
  - obviously, Von.
• 4:10
  - This is a remarkable number, but what's
• 4:13
  - what's the story behind that number? Who are
• 4:15
  - these people and
• 4:16
  - what does getting a
• 4:18
  - debt free allied health credential actually change in
• 4:21
  - someone's life?
• 4:23
  - Yes, Scott. And 2,000 of those 12,000 actually
• 4:26
  - came from health professional shortages area.
• 4:29
  - 90% of our,
• 4:32
  - our our,
• 4:33
  - completers,
• 4:34
  - come from multiple cultural backgrounds with 46%
• 4:38
  - bringing linguistic diversity.
• 4:41
  - And, you know, many
• 4:42
  - providers have begun establishing high school pipelines, but
• 4:46
  - today, given the shrinking population in our high
• 4:48
  - schools, it's just not sufficient it's important
• 4:52
  - and not just sufficient.
• 4:54
  - So when you ask about who are these
• 4:55
  - people,
• 4:56
  - I think of the stories of Margaret Oh,
• 4:58
  - for example.
• 5:00
  - She was a security worker in the hospital
• 5:04
  - in her thirties, began taking care of her
• 5:05
  - mother who had cancer,
• 5:07
  - and started thinking, well, I actually enjoyed the
• 5:10
  - being in service of others.
• 5:12
  - Should I consider going into direct care. And
• 5:15
  - so she saw a Futura Health flyers
• 5:18
  - in,
• 5:19
  - in the hallway of her hospital, and she
• 5:21
  - became a phlebotomist debt free,
• 5:23
  - through the work that we do, or Justice
• 5:27
  - who had become laid off in one of
• 5:28
  - these down cycles
• 5:30
  - and
• 5:31
  - what was wanting to become a nurse, was
• 5:33
  - working at a ramen noodle shop trying to
• 5:36
  - save up money. His aunt told him about
• 5:38
  - Futuro Health. His aunt works at at a
• 5:40
  - hospital,
• 5:42
  - and he became a medical assistant through us
• 5:44
  - debt free and actually has been promoted several
• 5:46
  - times
• 5:48
  - and continues to be interested in nursing.
• 5:51
  - Or Yoshiko who had stopped out of the
• 5:53
  - workforce to raid her raise her,
• 5:56
  - her daughter. She has a bachelor's degree, speaks
• 5:58
  - another language.
• 5:59
  - And in returning to the workforce,
• 6:02
  - she took up the patient care representative,
• 6:06
  - program at Futura Health, and she was able
• 6:08
  - to go in,
• 6:10
  - and really do well on a panel interview
• 6:12
  - that,
• 6:13
  - of five individuals at a hospital, including two
• 6:16
  - physicians, and she landed the the offer. So
• 6:19
  - these are the stories of adults
• 6:21
  - who seek to be in service of others,
• 6:24
  - And thanks to the programming and the sponsorship
• 6:27
  - of of of our partners, they're able to
• 6:30
  - come out debt free with a credential and
• 6:32
  - qualification to begin their first or next career
• 6:34
  - in health care.
• 6:36
  - Yeah. Appreciate you sharing those specific examples. That's,
• 6:38
  - you know, a really detailed
• 6:41
  - example of how people's lives were were able
• 6:43
  - to change through the program. So appreciate that,
• 6:45
  - Von. And, you know, another interesting stat
• 6:49
  - is allied workers make up 65%
• 6:51
  - of the healthcare workforce,
• 6:53
  - yet they rarely get the spotlight that physicians
• 6:55
  - and nurses do. Why do you think that
• 6:58
  - gap
• 6:59
  - in attention exists and what's the cost of
• 7:02
  - ignoring it?
• 7:04
  - Well, certainly, the cost of ignoring important roles
• 7:06
  - like,
• 7:07
  - rad techs and surg techs and respiratory techs
• 7:10
  - would be delays in diagnosis
• 7:12
  - for and patient care, worse patient outcomes, reduce
• 7:15
  - access to services or raw lost revenues.
• 7:17
  - And then, of course, there's there's workforce burnout
• 7:20
  - by all their peers.
• 7:22
  - But I think the root cause of, like,
• 7:23
  - why do we not know some of these
• 7:25
  - great allied health roles is that it just
• 7:28
  - doesn't roll off the tongue. If you think
• 7:29
  - about,
• 7:30
  - a dinner over the table where a family
• 7:33
  - may be discussing career options, they may know
• 7:36
  - about doctors and nurses,
• 7:37
  - but, certainly, a medical sonographer,
• 7:40
  - a phlebotomist, you know, these are not words
• 7:42
  - that roll off, your tongue when you're over
• 7:45
  - over the dinner table.
• 7:47
  - So I I think there's, like, two categories
• 7:49
  - that that,
• 7:50
  - providers should pay attention to. Of course, there's
• 7:53
  - the high value but low volume roles, like
• 7:56
  - the surgical tech and respiratory
• 7:58
  - tech and rad tech,
• 8:00
  - that I've I've mentioned. But there are also
• 8:03
  - high volume kind of bread and butter roles
• 8:05
  - that
• 8:06
  - are in all organizations
• 8:08
  - at some some volume, like medical assistant, nursing
• 8:11
  - assistant, pharmacy tech, phlebotomist,
• 8:14
  - oh, patient care techs. And I love ER
• 8:16
  - techs, for example. That that one is trained.
• 8:19
  - We are not only trained them with our
• 8:21
  - human touch health care essential skills curriculum, but
• 8:23
  - they have to acquire the
• 8:25
  - EKG certificates, the EMT certificate, the phlebotomy certificate.
• 8:30
  - Each one often is offered at a different
• 8:33
  - education institution. And so being able to streamline
• 8:36
  - that process so that adult can get
• 8:39
  - credentials and qualifications they need, come out debt
• 8:42
  - free, land their first job in it in,
• 8:45
  - in, health care. You know, we're removing a
• 8:48
  - lot of the barriers that, are unnecessary
• 8:51
  - in the way of adults really moving into
• 8:54
  - health care and,
• 8:56
  - growing that workforce.
• 8:58
  - Yeah. Yeah. And with sticking with those jobs
• 9:01
  - in health care that you're mentioning, a lot
• 9:03
  - of workforce programs struggle because they train people
• 9:06
  - for jobs that don't exist or don't pay
• 9:08
  - well. How did you build employer alignment into
• 9:11
  - Ferturo
• 9:12
  - Health's DNA from the start, and
• 9:15
  - why does that change the outcome?
• 9:17
  - You know, Scott, employers think that when they
• 9:20
  - have these shortages
• 9:21
  - or these gaps, that they have to solve
• 9:23
  - all the problems themselves. Well, they may choose
• 9:25
  - to build a medical school, choose to build,
• 9:28
  - you know, a nursing school. But especially in
• 9:31
  - the 65% of roles that are allied health,
• 9:33
  - I really encourage them to think about workforce
• 9:35
  - development as a team sport
• 9:37
  - and, not an individual sport. And the role
• 9:41
  - that employers need
• 9:43
  - to lean in on is is about defining
• 9:46
  - what they need in terms of their specifications.
• 9:49
  - Like, I need this, language set or I
• 9:51
  - need in this geography, and I need this
• 9:54
  - kind of credential.
• 9:55
  - And
• 9:56
  - then to to also,
• 9:58
  - be in the role of providing the clinicals
• 10:00
  - as well as the hiring. And then others
• 10:03
  - can kick in to be able to,
• 10:07
  - to be able to build that talent pool,
• 10:09
  - that grow that talent pool,
• 10:11
  - locally. Yes. It is an investment
• 10:15
  - in terms of the employers and both Kaiser
• 10:18
  - and Sutter who've worked with us. What they've
• 10:20
  - done is tapped into their community benefits dollars
• 10:24
  - to be able to generate and grow from
• 10:26
  - a talent puddle to a talent pool, especially
• 10:29
  - in all the geographies located by their facility.
• 10:32
  - So it's it's a win win win because
• 10:34
  - it's a win for the operations because they
• 10:36
  - get the talent that they need. It's a
• 10:39
  - win for the community because they gain access
• 10:42
  - to good jobs,
• 10:44
  - and it's a win, especially if you're a
• 10:46
  - nonprofit provider because you can demonstrate the community
• 10:49
  - benefits to your regulators. So,
• 10:52
  - highly encouraged thinking about workforce development, especially for
• 10:55
  - the allied health roles as a team sport,
• 10:57
  - not an individual sport.
• 10:59
  - Exactly. And and like you're saying, if it's
• 11:01
  - done correctly, if it's done properly, there's wins
• 11:03
  - across the board there. I wanna ask you,
• 11:05
  - Yvonne, about another interesting statistics that Becker's found,
• 11:08
  - and that's by 2040,
• 11:10
  - the ratio of working age adults to seniors
• 11:13
  - drops from seven to one to 4.4 to
• 11:16
  - one. When you look at that number, how
• 11:18
  - urgent does the workforce problem feel and
• 11:21
  - are health systems moving fast?
• 11:24
  - It's not just the, health systems that need
• 11:27
  - to move fast, but, of course, if you're
• 11:29
  - the family,
• 11:30
  - the family member
• 11:31
  - who needs the care, it's urgent,
• 11:34
  - immediately.
• 11:35
  - Right? And everyone, every community needs to have
• 11:38
  - their fair share of these allied health workers.
• 11:41
  - I will also note that, you know, one
• 11:43
  - having a partnership with one college is,
• 11:45
  - it's very difficult for one institution to solve
• 11:49
  - all of these occupations that you you will
• 11:51
  - need.
• 11:52
  - And
• 11:53
  - so what we have approached it is in
• 11:55
  - building a whole ecosystem of education providers. We
• 11:59
  - have a method for sourcing
• 12:00
  - and vetting
• 12:02
  - education providers and contracting with them in a
• 12:04
  - way that they get paid when as a
• 12:07
  - learner progresses. So we have 42 education providers
• 12:11
  - with a 115
• 12:12
  - campuses,
• 12:13
  - 15 occupations
• 12:15
  - that are in demand, and we could you
• 12:17
  - know, everywhere where there's a sponsor for the
• 12:19
  - scholarships,
• 12:21
  - we are able to go in into these
• 12:23
  - geographies and
• 12:25
  - work with the the employers as well as,
• 12:28
  - to support the adults
• 12:31
  - who are who who seek to come into
• 12:33
  - the health care workforce.
• 12:34
  - So what what we it will be all
• 12:36
  - hands on deck to be able to compete
• 12:38
  - for the talent across all the different industry
• 12:40
  - sectors,
• 12:42
  - sectors,
• 12:43
  - especially given the aging of our nation and
• 12:45
  - how we have to bring everybody from the
• 12:47
  - sidelines into the care workforce.
• 12:49
  - I know Futuro just had a a huge
• 12:51
  - announcement. You just announced
• 12:53
  - a $1,000,000
• 12:54
  - commitment from JPMorgan Chase to launch a national
• 12:57
  - healthcare workforce resilience initiative.
• 13:00
  - What does that signal about how corporate America
• 13:02
  - is starting to think about healthcare workforce as
• 13:05
  - an economic issue,
• 13:06
  - not just as a healthcare one?
• 13:09
  - Health care is, as as I mentioned, Nick,
• 13:12
  - health care everybody needs their proportion of health
• 13:14
  - care workers in the backyard. And, also,
• 13:17
  - the advantage of health care is that there's
• 13:19
  - so many good jobs and so many good
• 13:22
  - careers that is supported to our communities if
• 13:24
  - we can grow talent, local talent,
• 13:26
  - from our communities.
• 13:28
  - And it's it's, wonderful when our workforces can
• 13:31
  - reflect the communities that we serve. And especially
• 13:34
  - in health care,
• 13:35
  - trust starts with having
• 13:38
  - the workforce
• 13:39
  - reflect the communities,
• 13:40
  - because that that's often at the root of,
• 13:43
  - whether that there's relationship building that they can
• 13:47
  - enable better care. So, you know, as I
• 13:49
  - mentioned, you know, Sutter used their community bed
• 13:51
  - benefits dollars to underwrite the creation of 300
• 13:55
  - medical assistance
• 13:56
  - within their primary and secondary service area.
• 14:00
  - Kaiser
• 14:00
  - began to rebuild the pharmacy tech pipelines to
• 14:04
  - ensure that their pipeline could reflect the communities
• 14:07
  - being served.
• 14:08
  - And Ochsner Health, for example,
• 14:11
  - they not only did the the pre hire
• 14:14
  - work, but they also did the post hire
• 14:16
  - work to retain these individuals. They improved first
• 14:19
  - year, eighteen month persistence
• 14:21
  - for medical assistance from 55%
• 14:23
  - to over,
• 14:25
  - ninety four percent by combining,
• 14:29
  - some added career development, financial support, and personalized
• 14:32
  - coaching to help these employees persist.
• 14:35
  - So the work begins before,
• 14:38
  - the hiring to cultivate the talent pool, and
• 14:41
  - the work is also ongoing to ensure that,
• 14:45
  - there's persistence,
• 14:47
  - and retention
• 14:48
  - post hire.
• 14:50
  - Wanna go back to geography. You know, I
• 14:52
  - know you just touched on it. You've talked
• 14:54
  - about building community based workforce systems rather than
• 14:57
  - top down ones. What does that actually look
• 15:00
  - like on the ground, and why does geography
• 15:02
  - matter so much
• 15:03
  - with solving this problem?
• 15:06
  - Yes, Scott. Geography matters in, very different ways.
• 15:09
  - So, for example, in rural communities, oftentimes, it
• 15:11
  - is it lacks capacity in terms of institutions
• 15:14
  - available to train
• 15:16
  - and in all different occupations.
• 15:18
  - Right? So the,
• 15:20
  - the good news is that the health care
• 15:21
  - providers tend to be more collaborative
• 15:24
  - than competitive when it comes to talent. And
• 15:26
  - so maybe there's collective effort to provide clinicals,
• 15:29
  - right, to rotate
• 15:31
  - the the the learner around so that they
• 15:33
  - can get what they need to finish the
• 15:35
  - program and their credential.
• 15:37
  - But usually what's lacking is there's not
• 15:40
  - the education,
• 15:42
  - the ray of education
• 15:43
  - options,
• 15:45
  - that is needed in to fully grow the
• 15:47
  - needed allied health workforce roles. Well, in urban
• 15:49
  - area, for example, the competition is way more
• 15:52
  - intense, maybe, in between education institutions because there's
• 15:56
  - more of them and they're more geographically,
• 15:59
  - in proximity to each other and competing for
• 16:02
  - enrollment. And so the strategy
• 16:04
  - for employers is less about education,
• 16:08
  - capacity. It's more about how do you distinguish
• 16:11
  - yourself as the employer
• 16:13
  - choice for the
• 16:15
  - the students, the learners that are coming out,
• 16:17
  - and they may have multiple options, not just
• 16:20
  - you, but for others.
• 16:21
  - So depending on the geographies,
• 16:24
  - you may have a different strategy. But in
• 16:27
  - both situations, you will still need to invest
• 16:29
  - as an as a provider.
• 16:31
  - And and where you gain the best advantage,
• 16:33
  - the most
• 16:34
  - loyal workers who can stay with you is
• 16:36
  - is both when you upscale a staff who
• 16:38
  - is already working with you
• 16:41
  - and grow them from within. And then the
• 16:43
  - second is is really if you can,
• 16:46
  - work with communities and especially provide clinicals in
• 16:49
  - advance of hiring,
• 16:51
  - there's teams there tends to be a lot
• 16:53
  - of loyalty to stay longer because they know
• 16:55
  - you had given them an opportunity much earlier,
• 16:59
  - than than just the job application process.
• 17:02
  - So unlocking opportunity really gets you loyalty. And
• 17:05
  - if you if you look across the other
• 17:07
  - industries, you'll notice, like, UPS, Amazon, Starbucks, who
• 17:10
  - never used to do this type of work,
• 17:12
  - have all rolled out
• 17:14
  - worker training programs and workforce development pro programs
• 17:18
  - because it's not no, no longer for just
• 17:20
  - the high potentials in your company,
• 17:23
  - as a worker retention
• 17:25
  - or workforce
• 17:26
  - attraction strategy. Again, we're looking at a workforce
• 17:30
  - a population that, you know, an adult worker
• 17:32
  - population that has options between different industry sectors,
• 17:35
  - and we want health care to be the
• 17:37
  - most attractive.
• 17:39
  - Yeah. Even even companies outside of health care,
• 17:41
  - everyone has to kind of adapt to upscale
• 17:43
  - their workers. Absolutely. I think it's a great
• 17:45
  - detailed point you made there, Von. And the
• 17:47
  - last thing I I wanted to ask you,
• 17:48
  - Von,
• 17:50
  - you know, if Futuro Health hits its full
• 17:53
  - potential
• 17:54
  - over the next decade, what does The US
• 17:57
  - health care workforce look like
• 17:59
  - differently?
• 18:00
  - And what
• 18:01
  - and what would it mean for the 75,000,000
• 18:04
  - Americans living in health professional shortage areas today?
• 18:08
  - Well, ultimately, Scott, it's all about good outcomes
• 18:10
  - and good care for the patients, and I
• 18:12
  - would want, you know, all the geographies to
• 18:14
  - have their fair share of allied health workers.
• 18:17
  - And the hardest is about bringing different parts
• 18:20
  - of a provider's organization together to put in
• 18:22
  - place this win win win workforce development strategy.
• 18:26
  - It's asking
• 18:27
  - the community benefit side of the house to
• 18:29
  - unlock
• 18:30
  - the funding,
• 18:31
  - the operations side to unlock,
• 18:34
  - the clinicals and the and the hiring, and
• 18:36
  - then
• 18:36
  - asking HR to augment what they do by
• 18:39
  - working with partners like Fertura Health, but others
• 18:42
  - as well, who have shown that this type
• 18:45
  - of workforce development can actually
• 18:47
  - grow the talent pool, a trusted talent pool
• 18:50
  - from the community
• 18:51
  - and from within
• 18:53
  - other than leaving it to chance.
• 18:56
  - So, you know, the all three combination,
• 18:58
  - it has been proven in many other areas
• 19:00
  - as well in health care that it can
• 19:02
  - be done.
• 19:03
  - It just needs an executive sponsor and a
• 19:05
  - budget.
• 19:06
  - And, hopefully, your listeners,
• 19:09
  - that are interested will catalyze the work within
• 19:12
  - their own organization.
• 19:14
  - I think they will. And, Von, thanks so
• 19:16
  - much for joining us on the podcast. It
• 19:17
  - was a great conversation. I look forward to
• 19:19
  - working with you again soon. It's a pleasure.
• 19:21
  - Thank you very much.