Latest / True Crime California / TCC #30: The Hart Family Murders

Transcript

TCC #30: The Hart Family Murders · True Crime California

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to True Crime California. I'm your host, Cindy,
0:05
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you're here. Hey everybody, I'm back. I'm
0:16
Speaker 1: sorry it's been so long. I know, I suck. I'm
0:19
Speaker 1: not going to get into it, but I'm just going
0:20
Speaker 1: to say that I'm going to do the best that
0:21
Speaker 1: I can, and I love and appreciate everybody who listens regularly,
0:26
Speaker 1: including all of my friends, and friends that I've made
0:29
Speaker 1: from having podcasts. I apologize for the, what, six-month delay.
0:33
Speaker 1: Happy to be back. Hope everybody's been great. It's now
0:36
Speaker 1: just past Halloween. I hope everybody had a great Halloween.
0:39
Speaker 1: We did. We hung out with friends. It was super fun.
0:41
Speaker 1: Not a lot of candy, but I think, you know,
0:44
Speaker 1: everybody's super poor. Nobody has any money because if you
0:48
Speaker 1: live in the United States, you live in absolute fucking hell.
0:52
Speaker 1: And we're basically all just working 50 hours a week
0:54
Speaker 1: to survive. So, Totally understand that people didn't also buy
0:59
Speaker 1: candy for the children of strangers. Anyway, it was still
1:03
Speaker 1: a fun, fun time. I dressed up as Patricia from
1:09
Speaker 1: Widow's Bay. If you guys haven't seen Widow's Bay, what
1:11
Speaker 1: are you doing? Like, honestly, anybody who enjoys true crime
1:14
Speaker 1: or enjoys like horror movies or scary movies, you're really
1:18
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1:20
Speaker 1: it's funny. It's scary. It's spooky. It's rad. I can't
1:24
Speaker 1: wait for the second season. And I was really proud
1:26
Speaker 1: of the amount of people who knew who I was
1:28
Speaker 1: and really surprised at the amount of people who had
1:31
Speaker 1: no idea who I was or asked if I was
1:32
Speaker 1: somebody from Yellow Jackets, which was strange. Anyway, so I've
1:37
Speaker 1: actually had this story that I'm going to do researched
1:42
Speaker 1: since about a week before my last episode posted. And
1:46
Speaker 1: that's how fucking crazy shit's been. Also, it's been overwhelming
1:50
Speaker 1: podcasting because I'm always so worried about the sound quality,
1:54
Speaker 1: because I've got feedback from people. And also when I
1:57
Speaker 1: listen back, I'm like, this isn't the quality I want
1:59
Speaker 1: it to be. So I've decided to just kind of
2:02
Speaker 1: give myself a little bit of a break and let
2:04
Speaker 1: it be what it is, because there's a lot of
2:05
Speaker 1: popular podcasts out there that just don't have great sound quality.
2:09
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry if you can hear me swallow, but
2:11
Speaker 1: I'm a human being. I swallow at least, you know,
2:13
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it's not AI. So I'm going
2:16
Speaker 1: to try to be more consistent and just let the
2:17
Speaker 1: chips fall where they may and do my best with
2:20
Speaker 1: the quality of the audio recordings. And hopefully you guys
2:23
Speaker 1: all give me a little leeway because I'm literally doing
2:26
Speaker 1: this at my kitchen table. So anyway, I hope everybody's
2:31
Speaker 1: been great. And, you know, a lot of crazy shit
2:35
Speaker 1: going on in the true crime world. Every time I
2:38
Speaker 1: start to record, I forget everything that I wanted to
2:40
Speaker 1: talk about when I think about recording. So if I
2:42
Speaker 1: think of anything, I might go on a mid story tangent.
2:45
Speaker 1: But I also think a lot of people enjoy this
2:48
Speaker 1: podcast because I don't do that. So I do want
2:50
Speaker 1: to call out that Ted Bundy has been linked to
2:53
Speaker 1: at least one more murder this year, possibly two, which
2:56
Speaker 1: is fucking crazy considering that he was already definitively linked to,
3:00
Speaker 1: I think, over 30. I think it was 31 previously.
3:03
Speaker 1: So this man was prolific. He was evil. Very glad
3:07
Speaker 1: he's dead. Anyway, talking about evil people, the story I'm
3:12
Speaker 1: going to do this week is the Hart family murders.
3:15
Speaker 1: And now, as we all know, this is true crime, California,
3:18
Speaker 1: but I'm really kind of skirting around on this one.
3:21
Speaker 1: I'm kind of bending the rules a little bit because
3:24
Speaker 1: while the end of the story takes place in California,
3:27
Speaker 1: the majority of the story takes place elsewhere. However, I
3:31
Speaker 1: am telling this story on a technicality and that it
3:34
Speaker 1: ends in California and therefore it's California true crime. Um,
3:38
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to do it because I think it's
3:39
Speaker 1: an important tale. It's a really fucked up tale. It's
3:42
Speaker 1: a really infuriating tale. But anyway, let's just let's get
3:45
Speaker 1: into it. This is the story of the Hart family murders. Now,
3:52
Speaker 1: I want to say that this story is so frustrating
3:55
Speaker 1: and so angering because it just undeniably it's it's mired
3:59
Speaker 1: in racism, classism and really highlights the failures of the
4:04
Speaker 1: systems that supposedly exist to protect the children in our country,
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Speaker 1: specifically the ones who need the most help and protection.
4:11
Speaker 1: Of course, they are the ones that are overlooked today.
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Speaker 1: and not helped, which is absolutely not acceptable. So, like
4:17
Speaker 1: I said, this case mostly takes place outside of California.
4:21
Speaker 1: So while I hadn't thought about covering it, um, previously,
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Speaker 1: it does very sadly end in tragedy in Northern California.
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Speaker 1: So it counts as something I'm able to cover, which
4:29
Speaker 1: I both love and obviously hate. Um, I think it's
4:33
Speaker 1: important to cover cases like this because it's important to
4:35
Speaker 1: know what isn't working in our society. So we can
4:37
Speaker 1: really try to work to change those things for the better.
4:40
Speaker 1: um so again Hart family tragedy it's a fairly recent
4:43
Speaker 1: case it ended in 2018 with the deaths of eight
4:47
Speaker 1: people including six children five of whom were under the
4:52
Speaker 1: age of 18 one who was barely over uh there
4:56
Speaker 1: are quite a few pieces to this case so I'm
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Speaker 1: going to do my best to lay everything out in
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Speaker 1: a way that makes sense and to that end I
5:01
Speaker 1: am going to start at the very beginning and talk
5:03
Speaker 1: about Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gangler now these are the
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Speaker 1: two women who are the main characters, we'll say, of
5:10
Speaker 1: this horrific case. Jennifer Jean Hart was born in Huron,
5:16
Speaker 1: South Dakota in June of 1979 and grew up in
5:19
Speaker 1: that very small town for most of her life. Sarah
5:23
Speaker 1: Margaret Gangler was also born and raised in a small
5:26
Speaker 1: town in South Dakota and was born in Big Stone
5:29
Speaker 1: City in April of 1979. So they're like two months apart.
5:34
Speaker 1: The two didn't meet growing up. And from what I've read,
5:36
Speaker 1: they had very different personalities with Jen being very alpha,
5:40
Speaker 1: somewhat aggressive, always needing to be special or like noticed
5:44
Speaker 1: by people. While Sarah was more chill and easygoing, but
5:48
Speaker 1: also really easy to control. So not at all an
5:52
Speaker 1: alpha or a leader. And we can kind of guess
5:54
Speaker 1: how that pairing could work, you know, at least for Jen.
5:59
Speaker 1: Both women were lesbians and both attended Northern State University
6:02
Speaker 1: for college, which is located in Aberdeen, South Dakota. They
6:07
Speaker 1: both also majored in education as they wanted to work
6:10
Speaker 1: with children, which is ironic. And this is how they met.
6:13
Speaker 1: They immediately fell in love and went from Jen and
6:16
Speaker 1: Sarah to Jen and Sarah, like no spaces between very quickly.
6:21
Speaker 1: They were inseparable and they were essentially a single unit
6:25
Speaker 1: almost from the day they met. obviously with Jen leading
6:28
Speaker 1: the charge and Sarah just kind of doing what she's told.
6:32
Speaker 1: They moved in together and in 2005, Sarah petitioned the
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Speaker 1: court to change her last name also to Hart. Knowing
6:39
Speaker 1: what we do about these women, it makes sense to
6:42
Speaker 1: me that Jen would want Sarah to take her last
6:43
Speaker 1: name and for Sarah to totally be willing to do that.
6:48
Speaker 1: I think I've made it pretty clear who these women are,
6:51
Speaker 1: but to really drive this home, kind of who and
6:55
Speaker 1: how Jen was, People who knew her growing up said
6:58
Speaker 1: she was always really moody and aggressive. And while I'm
7:01
Speaker 1: not sure exactly when, at some point, Jen and Sarah
7:05
Speaker 1: cut off Jen's entire family with Jen saying it was
7:08
Speaker 1: because they didn't accept that they were lesbians and didn't
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Speaker 1: support their lifestyle. Jen's family would later say this was
7:15
Speaker 1: completely untrue and that they fully supported Jen. So to me,
7:18
Speaker 1: that really exemplifies her personality. You know, she's a martyr.
7:21
Speaker 1: She has to have problems with the people in her life.
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Speaker 1: She needs attention. She has to be special and different,
7:26
Speaker 1: you know, even if nobody around her cares. It's like
7:29
Speaker 1: that meme, like, hey, everybody, I'm lesbian. And then they go, look, everybody,
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Speaker 1: she's a lesbian. See, nobody cares. But Jen needed people
7:37
Speaker 1: to care. They needed people to have, she needed people
7:40
Speaker 1: to have an issue with it. So anyway, Sarah graduated
7:45
Speaker 1: college in 2002. Jen had not yet graduated and decided
7:49
Speaker 1: she was just going to drop out, which she did
7:51
Speaker 1: because they were ready to kind of get on with
7:53
Speaker 1: their lives. And in the interest of that, the two
7:56
Speaker 1: moved to Alexandria, Minnesota in 2004, where they both got
7:59
Speaker 1: jobs at a large retail store. Now, it's not clear
8:03
Speaker 1: why Sarah never pursued a career in education, but I
8:05
Speaker 1: can tell you all now that she only ever worked
8:08
Speaker 1: in retail, which is super strange to me. Like, to
8:11
Speaker 1: go to school, to work in education, to graduate. I mean,
8:14
Speaker 1: Jen didn't graduate, so if she's not working with kids,
8:16
Speaker 1: that makes more sense. But to graduate and then to
8:19
Speaker 1: just get a job at a retail store, I really wonder...
8:22
Speaker 1: what drove her to make that decision. Now, the two
8:26
Speaker 1: of them worked there for about a year with Sarah
8:27
Speaker 1: being promoted to a managerial position, while Jen wasn't, and
8:31
Speaker 1: that doesn't surprise me one bit given her personality. But
8:35
Speaker 1: the whole time they worked there, they told their co-workers
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Speaker 1: that they not only wanted kids, but that they wanted
8:40
Speaker 1: to foster and adopt children so that they could give
8:42
Speaker 1: unwanted kids a loving home. Now, obviously, this sounds very altruistic,
8:47
Speaker 1: but knowing, again, what we know about Jen's martyr complex,
8:50
Speaker 1: it's also a slippery slope into narcissism via having a
8:54
Speaker 1: white savior complex. I guess I should have mentioned that
8:58
Speaker 1: they are both white. It's very important to the story,
9:03
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because I think it just really plays
9:06
Speaker 1: into the dynamics here. So if anybody doesn't know what
9:09
Speaker 1: a white savior complex is, it's essentially a It's kind
9:13
Speaker 1: of like it's a form of racism, really, where in
9:15
Speaker 1: white people feel like they have to save black people
9:18
Speaker 1: or other people of color from the world by, you know,
9:23
Speaker 1: bringing them into our culture and our way of living.
9:26
Speaker 1: It's basically like seeing other cultures as lesser than ours
9:30
Speaker 1: or as like it's like a it's like a very
9:32
Speaker 1: progressive way of seeing non-white people kind of as animalistic
9:36
Speaker 1: and wanting to like bring them into human life as
9:40
Speaker 1: we know it. That's kind of how I would sort
9:42
Speaker 1: of describe it. It's definitely a much more complex thing,
9:45
Speaker 1: but since I called it out, I kind of wanted
9:46
Speaker 1: to give my explanation of it, at least as it
9:49
Speaker 1: relates to this specific case. So when Jen and Sarah
9:53
Speaker 1: were only about 26 years old, they made this dream
9:56
Speaker 1: of fostering come true and fostered a 15-year-old. girl, which
10:00
Speaker 1: I find super weird. Like she's 11 years younger than
10:04
Speaker 1: they are. Even in America, that's more of a sister
10:07
Speaker 1: age gap than mother and child. You know, it's like
10:10
Speaker 1: children raising children. So very, very strange. And But our
10:18
Speaker 1: system must be pretty fucked for them to just be like, yeah,
10:21
Speaker 1: go ahead and take this girl that could be your sister.
10:24
Speaker 1: First time 26 year old parents like what the fuck?
10:29
Speaker 1: This girl who later did an interview and gave the
10:32
Speaker 1: name Lee was a troubled teen. She was in and
10:36
Speaker 1: out of foster care due to truancy and her mother,
10:38
Speaker 1: who was also very young, was not able to control her.
10:41
Speaker 1: So would ask the state for help from time to
10:43
Speaker 1: time would literally say, like, can you take my daughter?
10:45
Speaker 1: I can't control her. So she wasn't being forcibly removed
10:48
Speaker 1: from the home. Her mother was actually requesting help from
10:51
Speaker 1: the state. And Lee would also ask for help, literally
10:56
Speaker 1: calling the foster care system to get her out of
10:57
Speaker 1: her home when she felt too out of control. So
11:00
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting dynamic there and not one you
11:02
Speaker 1: see very often, but it's almost seems a little healthier
11:05
Speaker 1: than people being taken forcibly or having to be removed
11:09
Speaker 1: because of negligent parents. It's more just like whatever the
11:12
Speaker 1: dynamic was between mother and daughter, it wasn't working and
11:15
Speaker 1: they both knew that. And so they would use the
11:17
Speaker 1: system to give them much needed breaks. Anyway, this is
11:20
Speaker 1: how she ended up with Jen and Sarah and her
11:23
Speaker 1: time with the couple was okay. Nothing too out of
11:25
Speaker 1: the ordinary, but there are a few things I wanted
11:27
Speaker 1: to note about this time as it's sort of indicative
11:30
Speaker 1: of what's to come. First, the women immediately tried to
11:33
Speaker 1: change her. Lee said that she was very much a
11:36
Speaker 1: tomboy when she came to their home and the women
11:38
Speaker 1: took her to their work to give her a makeup makeover,
11:41
Speaker 1: which she fucking hated. The woman who gave her the
11:43
Speaker 1: makeover said Jen and Sarah didn't seem to care that
11:46
Speaker 1: she hated it and were almost angry that she wasn't
11:49
Speaker 1: more appreciative of their efforts rather than understanding it just
11:52
Speaker 1: wasn't the right thing for her. Lee also recalled that
11:55
Speaker 1: she and Jen would fight often, and usually about very
11:59
Speaker 1: small stupid things based mostly in Jen's need to control
12:03
Speaker 1: or Jen's own insecurities. So Jen was obviously deeply insecure,
12:07
Speaker 1: deeply controlling, and when Lee, who obviously didn't do well
12:11
Speaker 1: with authority, would push back, they would get in crazy
12:13
Speaker 1: fucking fights. One of these fights or one of these instances,
12:18
Speaker 1: I should say, was they all went to a Packers
12:20
Speaker 1: game football team for anybody who doesn't know that. And
12:23
Speaker 1: they all brought footballs to get them signed. Now, the
12:27
Speaker 1: player they wanted to sign only signed Lee's football. And
12:31
Speaker 1: Jen was so upset about it that she gave her
12:33
Speaker 1: the silent treatment and entirely ignored her for days. Now,
12:39
Speaker 1: she did this as if Lee had done this on purpose.
12:42
Speaker 1: Which is such an extremely immature way to view and
12:45
Speaker 1: handle that situation. And that's so weird for the person
12:48
Speaker 1: who is the parent. Or I guess who is like
12:50
Speaker 1: supposed to be the parent. I guess we shouldn't even
12:53
Speaker 1: really say she's the parent because obviously she's fucking crazy. Anyway,
12:58
Speaker 1: Lee also noted that the couple never really allowed her
13:01
Speaker 1: any freedoms. She wasn't allowed to see friends or go
13:04
Speaker 1: out at all, which for a 15-year-old is pretty crazy.
13:08
Speaker 1: She was always, you know, quote-unquote busy doing homework or
13:11
Speaker 1: just spending time with Jen and Sarah. Like, they thought
13:14
Speaker 1: in order to be a family, they had to be
13:16
Speaker 1: together all the time or something, which is very weird behavior,
13:19
Speaker 1: but also kind of harkens back to them going from
13:21
Speaker 1: Jen and Sarah to Jen and Sarah, with the emphasis
13:25
Speaker 1: on Jen. All this said, the most red flag moment
13:30
Speaker 1: is that happened in Lee's time with the couple came
13:32
Speaker 1: right as their time together ended. For weeks, Jen and
13:38
Speaker 1: Sarah told Lee that they were going to adopt three
13:41
Speaker 1: kids from Texas. Now these children, Abigail born in 2003,
13:46
Speaker 1: Hannah born in 2002, and Marcus born in 1998, all
13:50
Speaker 1: lived with their mother, Tammy, in pretty bad conditions as
13:53
Speaker 1: she was very poor and a single mother. Tammy had
13:57
Speaker 1: been on the streets off and on since she was 15,
13:59
Speaker 1: but never had a drug habit and had support from
14:02
Speaker 1: her grandparents who helped raise her three young kids. In 2003,
14:06
Speaker 1: while at a birthday party, 18 month old Hannah ended
14:10
Speaker 1: up sitting on an ant hill and became covered in
14:13
Speaker 1: ant bites. One of which became infected with staph, which
14:17
Speaker 1: can be super serious. The doctor who treated her took
14:20
Speaker 1: one look at Tammy and decided that she was garbage.
14:23
Speaker 1: So he called CPS, which again, this is the classism, right?
14:27
Speaker 1: any kid could sit on an anthill and get bit.
14:30
Speaker 1: Like my kid has done crazy shit. All of my
14:33
Speaker 1: friend's kids have been hurt in the most insane ways.
14:36
Speaker 1: And you feel guilty as a parent, but you also
14:38
Speaker 1: understand when it happens to someone else that it doesn't
14:40
Speaker 1: make them negligent. It doesn't make them stupid. It's just
14:43
Speaker 1: things happen with kids sometimes, right? So CPS was called.
14:48
Speaker 1: And from there, things went downhill. Now that she was
14:51
Speaker 1: in the system, Tammy was already at risk of losing
14:54
Speaker 1: her children as the state, you know, looks down on
14:56
Speaker 1: poor people trying to raise children despite literally forcing women
14:58
Speaker 1: to have children despite their financial situation. But, you know,
15:02
Speaker 1: we don't have to get into that right now. So
15:04
Speaker 1: by February 2004, Hannah got sick with a cold, which quickly, unfortunately,
15:09
Speaker 1: turned to pneumonia, which again can happen. Tammy did the
15:14
Speaker 1: right thing and took her to the doctor who sent
15:17
Speaker 1: her home with a different asthma medication. But when things
15:20
Speaker 1: got worse, Tammy called an ambulance and took Hannah to
15:22
Speaker 1: the hospital. So again, doing all the right things. Now,
15:25
Speaker 1: while this seems like the right thing to do, remember,
15:27
Speaker 1: we hate poor people in our country and we refuse
15:29
Speaker 1: to give our citizens health care paid by our own
15:32
Speaker 1: fucking taxes. So because she didn't have any money to
15:35
Speaker 1: pay for health care, she shouldn't have to pay for
15:37
Speaker 1: doctors called CPS once again, as they felt Tammy was
15:41
Speaker 1: negligent and took too long to bring her daughter in,
15:44
Speaker 1: even though she had taken her daughter in and was
15:46
Speaker 1: given incorrect medication and by some dipshit doctor. Now I
15:50
Speaker 1: want to just take a second here to talk about
15:52
Speaker 1: a conversation I just had with a friend whose daughter
15:55
Speaker 1: recently had pneumonia. She took her daughter to the doctor
15:59
Speaker 1: four times and had to demand an x-ray before the
16:03
Speaker 1: doctors found the pneumonia. This is a middle class gainfully
16:07
Speaker 1: employed white woman with full coverage health insurance. So when
16:11
Speaker 1: you consider how difficult it was for her to get
16:13
Speaker 1: this diagnosis, Imagine what it's like for a single mother
16:16
Speaker 1: of three with no insurance and no money. So do
16:19
Speaker 1: not fucking judge. Not that anybody is. I'm just saying. Unfortunately,
16:24
Speaker 1: Texas did judge and decided to take her children from her.
16:29
Speaker 1: Feeling overwhelmed and scared, Tammy signed away her rights, assuming
16:32
Speaker 1: the children would be adopted locally. It wasn't until after
16:36
Speaker 1: the adoption was already finalized that the children were adopted
16:40
Speaker 1: out of state in a closed adoption facility. meaning she
16:43
Speaker 1: never spoke to or saw any of her three children
16:47
Speaker 1: ever again. Instead, they went to live with Jen and Sarah,
16:52
Speaker 1: and only Jen and Sarah. Lee, still 15, had been
16:57
Speaker 1: told over and over she needed to start behaving better
17:00
Speaker 1: so she could be a good example for her new
17:01
Speaker 1: young siblings, who were coming to live with them very soon.
17:05
Speaker 1: Jen and Sarah had asked her if she wanted to
17:07
Speaker 1: live with them until she was 18, and she said
17:09
Speaker 1: that despite all of the issues, she did want to.
17:12
Speaker 1: Which is why it was so devastating when one day,
17:14
Speaker 1: just before the three kids came to live with them,
17:17
Speaker 1: Jen and Sarah dropped Lee off for her therapy appointment.
17:20
Speaker 1: Her therapist, who you should not be allowed to practice anymore,
17:24
Speaker 1: you should be fucking fired and, I don't know, go
17:27
Speaker 1: to therapy yourself, fucking agreed to help them with this,
17:31
Speaker 1: I guess, and told her that Jen and Sarah weren't
17:34
Speaker 1: coming back for her and that instead she was going
17:37
Speaker 1: to live with another family. All of her things were
17:41
Speaker 1: already with this new family. What kind of fucking therapist
17:44
Speaker 1: agrees to do something like that? Like what the fuck
17:46
Speaker 1: is wrong with people? I swear to God. Anyway, yeah,
17:51
Speaker 1: I just don't understand. And I also don't understand how
17:55
Speaker 1: Jen and Sarah were still allowed to adopt. Like knowing
17:58
Speaker 1: that they were just dumping their foster child who they
18:01
Speaker 1: were lying to up until this moment. And then they
18:03
Speaker 1: just fucking drop her off and never talk to her again.
18:06
Speaker 1: Like she's fucking trash. Like, this is a huge failure
18:09
Speaker 1: of the system and simply should not have been allowed. But,
18:12
Speaker 1: you know, here we are. As a note, Lee went
18:15
Speaker 1: on because I wanted to look up Lee, so I
18:17
Speaker 1: made sure to. She went on to live with the
18:19
Speaker 1: pastor and his wife, and they took great care of
18:21
Speaker 1: her and are still very much a part of her life,
18:24
Speaker 1: acting as grandparents to her child. So things ended well
18:28
Speaker 1: for her, but, like, fuck these assholes because they clearly
18:30
Speaker 1: didn't care. Now, Abigail, Hannah, and Marcus, back to the
18:34
Speaker 1: three that were adopted, they were all adopted and there
18:37
Speaker 1: was no back and forth about it. They were living
18:39
Speaker 1: with the family, with the two women, and that was it.
18:41
Speaker 1: They were their children. Last name is now Hart. Two
18:45
Speaker 1: years later, the women decided to adopt three more children.
18:50
Speaker 1: In 2006, Jen had quit her job to become a
18:52
Speaker 1: full-time mother, which as a side note, Texas paid her
18:55
Speaker 1: around $ 400 to $ 600 per child per month to do this,
19:00
Speaker 1: which I think was probably more than she made at
19:01
Speaker 1: the retail store. So Sarah was now the sole breadwinner,
19:05
Speaker 1: even though they had the money from the state. And
19:07
Speaker 1: three more kids meant three more paychecks. Now, these kids
19:10
Speaker 1: have an even more tragic story, these next incoming three kids,
19:14
Speaker 1: which is also infuriating and so fucking frustrating. Now, first,
19:19
Speaker 1: I want to call it that there were four kids
19:20
Speaker 1: involved in this situation, one of which was left out
19:23
Speaker 1: of the adoption as he was, quote, too old for
19:26
Speaker 1: being over the age of 10, which was older than
19:28
Speaker 1: what Jen and Sarah wanted for whatever reason. So of
19:32
Speaker 1: four siblings, one was left behind, which I realize it's
19:35
Speaker 1: hard to place children, but like, don't do that. And
19:37
Speaker 1: also don't place them with parents who are like, we
19:39
Speaker 1: don't want one of the four siblings. Like that's, that
19:42
Speaker 1: should be a red flag. Again, I think we're desperate,
19:45
Speaker 1: but that just goes to the whole system being fucked.
19:48
Speaker 1: So anyway, the three kids later adopted by the Harts
19:50
Speaker 1: were Devante, then six, Jeremiah, then either three or four,
19:55
Speaker 1: and Sierra, then either two or three, with their older
19:57
Speaker 1: brother Dante having been in the system since 2006. Now,
20:02
Speaker 1: Dante was the one that wasn't adopted. But they'd all
20:05
Speaker 1: been in since 2006 when their mother, Sherry, lost custody
20:09
Speaker 1: due to drug abuse. Now, this is especially heartbreaking because
20:13
Speaker 1: their aunt, Priscilla Celestine, love her name, was their father's
20:18
Speaker 1: sister and petitioned the court to give her temporary custody
20:22
Speaker 1: instead of giving them to some random family or splitting
20:24
Speaker 1: them up, which is what eventually happened. Now, Priscilla took
20:27
Speaker 1: the four kids, including Dante, and they lived with her
20:30
Speaker 1: for a while until one day a caseworker randomly came by.
20:35
Speaker 1: At this time, Priscilla was at work and her own
20:37
Speaker 1: daughter was there with the kids. So Priscilla had her
20:40
Speaker 1: own children and they were older. So she was sort
20:44
Speaker 1: of like watching the kids. Now, according to Priscilla, her
20:48
Speaker 1: daughter let the children's mother visit them, despite a court
20:51
Speaker 1: order saying she was not allowed anywhere near them. During
20:55
Speaker 1: one of the visits with their mother, this caseworker came
20:58
Speaker 1: by and found the mother with them and immediately took
21:02
Speaker 1: all of the children from their aunt's care. So it
21:05
Speaker 1: seemingly was just a really bad timing situation, right? Like,
21:09
Speaker 1: they just happened to show up when the mom was there,
21:11
Speaker 1: and they immediately took action and took the kids away. Now,
21:15
Speaker 1: from that day on, Priscilla fought to get them back,
21:19
Speaker 1: but she was never able to. And this is, to me,
21:23
Speaker 1: so fucked. Like, I get it, it's not safe to
21:25
Speaker 1: have their mother with them, but this was a case
21:27
Speaker 1: of bad judgment. And like I said, you know, she's
21:29
Speaker 1: their family. Like, It's better for them to keep the
21:32
Speaker 1: kids together, right? There's so much benefit in keeping the
21:35
Speaker 1: kids together and in keeping the kids with their families.
21:38
Speaker 1: They were not neglected. They were clean. They were fed.
21:40
Speaker 1: They were in school. But this one thing was enough
21:43
Speaker 1: to rip them out of yet another potentially stable environment
21:46
Speaker 1: and put them back into the foster system because apparently
21:48
Speaker 1: it's better to be in a foster system than a
21:50
Speaker 1: stable environment. Like that doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
21:53
Speaker 1: Priscilla did continue to fight for these kids. But around
21:56
Speaker 1: this time, two white ladies came knocking, wanting black children
22:00
Speaker 1: to save. And the state of Texas ate that up
22:03
Speaker 1: big time. In fact, they supported it so much that
22:06
Speaker 1: they allowed these women to split up the children who
22:08
Speaker 1: had lived together their entire lives and also take them
22:11
Speaker 1: from a family member who wanted them. Now, could it
22:14
Speaker 1: have had something to do with this family member being
22:17
Speaker 1: black and working class and not the ideal standard of racist,
22:21
Speaker 1: classist Texas officials? Very, very much, very much so, I
22:26
Speaker 1: would say. Dante was kept in the system while Devante,
22:31
Speaker 1: Sierra and Jeremiah went with the Harts in 2008. Priscilla
22:35
Speaker 1: continued to fight for these kids all the way up
22:38
Speaker 1: until they were officially adopted in 2009. So even after
22:41
Speaker 1: the kids were given to Jen and Sarah, Priscilla continued
22:45
Speaker 1: to try to stop this adoption. Priscilla had stable employment,
22:49
Speaker 1: had already raised her own daughter and even moved to
22:51
Speaker 1: a larger house to care for these kids. The only
22:54
Speaker 1: infraction against her was that their mother was at their
22:57
Speaker 1: home when the caseworker came by, but that was enough. Which, again,
23:01
Speaker 1: I find fucking disgusting and to be a huge failure
23:06
Speaker 1: of the system. You guys might have been able to
23:08
Speaker 1: hear the trash truck going by right now, which is
23:10
Speaker 1: weirdly fitting because this is trash behavior and there's a
23:13
Speaker 1: trash truck. Anyway, so now the Hart family has six
23:17
Speaker 1: kids and only one source of income, which was Sarah's
23:20
Speaker 1: retail work. Well, that and the money from the state.
23:24
Speaker 1: Jen stayed at home as a full-time mom and began
23:26
Speaker 1: posting about their lives online. So this was kind of
23:30
Speaker 1: when social media was still in its infancy. Um, but
23:35
Speaker 1: it was starting to become like influencers were a thing.
23:37
Speaker 1: It was kind of like just the time of, of
23:41
Speaker 1: our history where that was becoming a thing. And according
23:44
Speaker 1: to her posts, everything was so, so great. You know,
23:48
Speaker 1: the kids were so happy and everything was wonderful. However,
23:52
Speaker 1: in reality, as you can guess, things were anything but great.
23:57
Speaker 1: In 2008, before the second set of children were officially adopted,
24:01
Speaker 1: I believe it was Abigail who went to school covered
24:04
Speaker 1: in bruises all over her arms. She was also found
24:08
Speaker 1: to be stealing other kids' lunches and eating out of
24:11
Speaker 1: the trash. When her teacher contacted authorities, CPS was called
24:17
Speaker 1: to the Minnesota Home of the Heart's where both women
24:20
Speaker 1: denied any wrongdoing, saying that Abigail had fallen down the
24:23
Speaker 1: stairs and was having food issues, which is what led
24:26
Speaker 1: to her eating from the trash. They basically blamed her
24:30
Speaker 1: being adopted on her behavioral issues, and CPS was totally
24:34
Speaker 1: fine with it. White moms, black adopted child, it's obvious
24:38
Speaker 1: who they're going to believe. And even with this note
24:41
Speaker 1: in their files, they were still allowed to take on
24:43
Speaker 1: three more black children from Texas who simply couldn't live
24:46
Speaker 1: with their aunt because they might see their mom. Because
24:48
Speaker 1: this is obviously a better situation. White adopted parents, states
24:53
Speaker 1: away from where they grew up, being ripped apart from
24:56
Speaker 1: their families. These women have already had CPS called for
24:59
Speaker 1: legitimate reasons. And yet here we fucking are. You know,
25:03
Speaker 1: they're possibly being starved. They're being hit. As long as
25:06
Speaker 1: it's white women doing it. But if a black woman
25:08
Speaker 1: doesn't obey every rule exactly, that's not going to fucking stand.
25:12
Speaker 1: Allegations against these women came up again when in 2010,
25:16
Speaker 1: one of the children, I'm not sure who, because they
25:18
Speaker 1: were you know, they're minors, so the information's a little murky,
25:22
Speaker 1: told her teacher that she had owies on her tummy
25:25
Speaker 1: and back. She literally said, on my tummy, because this
25:29
Speaker 1: was a baby talking. And she was telling an adult
25:33
Speaker 1: that she was being hurt by her mommy's. She said
25:36
Speaker 1: her mommy put her in the bathtub and turned on
25:38
Speaker 1: the cold water, then hit her with a closed fist.
25:42
Speaker 1: She said that they did this because they found a
25:44
Speaker 1: penny in her pocket and accused her of stealing. And
25:48
Speaker 1: apparently this is the punishment for stealing? A full-grown woman
25:53
Speaker 1: beating up a fucking baby who's, what, seven years old
25:56
Speaker 1: at most? The child said it was Jen who hit her,
25:59
Speaker 1: which it absolutely was. But when confronted by CPS, Sarah
26:03
Speaker 1: admitted she was the one who did it. Which I
26:05
Speaker 1: want to say I don't believe is the truth. I
26:08
Speaker 1: believe that Jen is orchestrating all of this and Sarah
26:11
Speaker 1: is just her lapdog. She's just doing what she's telling
26:14
Speaker 1: her to do. I don't know if that's the way
26:16
Speaker 1: to put it. Her lapdog. Her attack dog. Her bitch.
26:18
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what to say. She
26:21
Speaker 1: said she had bent the girl over the bathtub and
26:23
Speaker 1: spanked her and that it just, quote, got out of control.
26:27
Speaker 1: She was charged with malicious punishment of a child, which
26:30
Speaker 1: was dismissed, and instead was convicted of misdemeanor domestic assault
26:35
Speaker 1: and sentenced to community service and a year of probation.
26:39
Speaker 1: Her children were not taken. Two days before the sentencing,
26:43
Speaker 1: all of the Hart children in kindergarten through seventh grade
26:46
Speaker 1: were pulled out of the public school system for homeschooling,
26:49
Speaker 1: according to district records. Again, none of them were removed
26:54
Speaker 1: from the home. None of them were checked on after
26:57
Speaker 1: being pulled from the school. All of them were being
27:00
Speaker 1: hit and starved by Jennifer and Sarah Hart, and nobody
27:03
Speaker 1: did a fucking thing about it. People later noted that
27:09
Speaker 1: all of the children seemed small and underweight for their ages,
27:12
Speaker 1: but again, at the time, nobody gave one single fuck.
27:15
Speaker 1: They just made a mental note and went on with
27:18
Speaker 1: their lives. After pulling the kids from school, the women,
27:23
Speaker 1: despite very little oversight, I think got spooked, you know,
27:25
Speaker 1: and worried they might get into trouble. So they moved
27:28
Speaker 1: from Minnesota to Oregon, to West Lynn, a small town
27:32
Speaker 1: outside of Portland, which is really common for middle-class white people,
27:35
Speaker 1: if I can be plain about it. Like, you know,
27:38
Speaker 1: they move to places like this and they homeschool, and
27:41
Speaker 1: then they can kind of indoctrinate the kids or do
27:42
Speaker 1: whatever they want to them. And nobody's paying any fucking attention.
27:46
Speaker 1: As a brief side note, when I was researching this case,
27:49
Speaker 1: I actually found a website dedicated to children who were
27:52
Speaker 1: being homeschooled in Oregon who either died as a result
27:56
Speaker 1: or were like severely abused. And the crazy thing is
27:59
Speaker 1: how similar all of these stories are. Even with like
28:02
Speaker 1: white children, the one unifying factor is they're mostly all
28:06
Speaker 1: lower class or working poor. But there are multiple instances
28:10
Speaker 1: in Oregon alone, and I haven't really looked anywhere else,
28:13
Speaker 1: but in Oregon alone, there are multiple instances of like
28:16
Speaker 1: severe abuse of children while in the homeschool system. So
28:20
Speaker 1: I just want to kind of call that out because
28:21
Speaker 1: I think there's something weird about that. But at first, anyway,
28:26
Speaker 1: when the children went to Oregon, they were again enrolled
28:29
Speaker 1: in school, although briefly, and the couple settled in and
28:32
Speaker 1: made friends in the area. Now, once again, Sarah was
28:35
Speaker 1: still the sole breadwinner with Jen as the full-time mom.
28:39
Speaker 1: And they made a few friends, like I said, including
28:41
Speaker 1: Alexandra Agropoulos, who witnessed some really awful behavior when the
28:45
Speaker 1: Harts came to stay with her, I believe down in
28:47
Speaker 1: the Bay Area where she lived. She said the children
28:50
Speaker 1: were punished severely for small infractions or just like acting
28:54
Speaker 1: like kids, including yelling, laughing too loud, or taking food
28:57
Speaker 1: without expressly being given permission by Jen, who again was
29:02
Speaker 1: basically starving them. And for what reason, I don't fucking know.
29:05
Speaker 1: Alexandra later recalled one incident where Alexandra decided to order
29:11
Speaker 1: pizza for all of them for dinner. Each child was allowed,
29:14
Speaker 1: per Jen's orders, one single slice of pizza. Some of
29:19
Speaker 1: these kids are in their teens at this point, so
29:21
Speaker 1: that's like absolutely not enough food. There was plenty of
29:24
Speaker 1: pizza left over and Alexandra said to please have more,
29:27
Speaker 1: but Jen wouldn't allow them. So she's starving them, not
29:31
Speaker 1: even for any reason. It's not like they don't have
29:32
Speaker 1: money to feed the kids. Even when food is available,
29:35
Speaker 1: she's just tormenting them and not allowing them to eat it. Now,
29:38
Speaker 1: at the time, Alexandra... didn't really know what the deal was, right?
29:42
Speaker 1: Like she didn't have any clue that things were bad.
29:45
Speaker 1: She just thought maybe that was a little bit weird.
29:47
Speaker 1: So the following morning, she noticed that more of the
29:49
Speaker 1: pizza was gone and joked to Jen that somebody must
29:52
Speaker 1: have got hungry during the night, which should be totally fine.
29:57
Speaker 1: Jen got super upset and made all of the kids
30:00
Speaker 1: lie on their backs in bed, not moving at all
30:04
Speaker 1: for six hours as punishment for stealing food they should
30:09
Speaker 1: have been offered in the first place and were offered.
30:12
Speaker 1: Alexandra really thought this was over the top, but didn't
30:15
Speaker 1: really say anything at the time because, you know, it
30:18
Speaker 1: was probably awkward and they weren't like super tight. And
30:20
Speaker 1: also whenever friends would say something, they were immediately out
30:23
Speaker 1: of the family's lives. This eventually did happen to Alexandra
30:27
Speaker 1: when she was so concerned by the behavior that she
30:30
Speaker 1: was witnessing that she called the Oregon Child Protective Services.
30:33
Speaker 1: So she didn't confront Jen, but she called CPS because
30:36
Speaker 1: she's like, this is clearly abusive. And this is something
30:40
Speaker 1: that she's seeing in just a few days with this family.
30:42
Speaker 1: So it's clearly very blatant what's going on. Now, by
30:46
Speaker 1: this time, the kids had again been taken out of
30:48
Speaker 1: school after concerned officials called home to ask prying questions
30:51
Speaker 1: like if the kids were getting enough to eat, because
30:54
Speaker 1: as everybody could see, they were not. Another friend called
30:58
Speaker 1: and said she was concerned because the children seemed, quote,
31:01
Speaker 1: like robots and weren't allowed to speak without raising their hands.
31:05
Speaker 1: She also noted a time they were not allowed to
31:07
Speaker 1: wish Marcus a happy birthday on his birthday, seemingly for
31:11
Speaker 1: no reason. So they're just being tortured and tormented for
31:16
Speaker 1: no fucking reason because Jen is just a fucking psycho.
31:20
Speaker 1: Oregon officials did investigate and went and interviewed the family.
31:24
Speaker 1: They later communicated to Alexandra that while it was clear
31:27
Speaker 1: the kids were coached in what to say, as the
31:30
Speaker 1: women were given warnings they were being investigated, which like,
31:33
Speaker 1: you know, why didn't they give Priscilla any warning down
31:35
Speaker 1: in Texas? But anyway, while they were clearly coached and
31:39
Speaker 1: while it later came out that Oregon had evidence of
31:41
Speaker 1: the abuse from Minnesota, they still claimed there wasn't enough
31:44
Speaker 1: evidence of abuse to build a case. Which, P.S., that's
31:47
Speaker 1: fucking dog shit. There was more than enough. You all
31:51
Speaker 1: fucking failed. Now, officials also had a chance to ask
31:54
Speaker 1: about whether or not the children were registered as homeschooled,
31:57
Speaker 1: which is a requirement in Oregon. But they chose not
32:01
Speaker 1: to ask, despite knowing the women had been accused and
32:04
Speaker 1: convicted of abuse in the past, seeing how small the
32:07
Speaker 1: children were, knowing they were coached, and having eyewitness accounts
32:10
Speaker 1: of abuse. You cannot make this shit up. It's like
32:14
Speaker 1: the system wanted to fail these children. They had oceans
32:18
Speaker 1: of evidence in front of them. They had previous infractions
32:21
Speaker 1: and they just, nah, we're not going to ask. And
32:24
Speaker 1: if they had asked, they would have known the children
32:26
Speaker 1: were not fucking registered. So they just chose to let
32:29
Speaker 1: these women continue to do what they were doing. It
32:32
Speaker 1: was a conscious choice. Fuck these fucking people. CPS is
32:36
Speaker 1: a fucking joke. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm very fucking mad. Okay. Now,
32:40
Speaker 1: of course, at that point, Alexandra was out of the
32:42
Speaker 1: family's lives and she worried about the kids from then on.
32:45
Speaker 1: and with very good reason. Now, even dating back to
32:50
Speaker 1: the Minnesota days and ramping up after moving to Oregon,
32:53
Speaker 1: the children were taken by Jen to many music festivals. Now,
32:56
Speaker 1: I know that's totally like a left turn in what
32:58
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, but they were taken to all
33:01
Speaker 1: sorts of multicultural festivals and events where they would dance
33:04
Speaker 1: to the music, front row, of course, with Jen filming
33:07
Speaker 1: for her YouTube channel also, of course. So it seemed
33:10
Speaker 1: like a left turn, but then I brought you back.
33:12
Speaker 1: You know, she's trying to present this facade, trying to
33:16
Speaker 1: make people think everything's good to sort of counteract what
33:20
Speaker 1: people see when they are actually close with the family,
33:22
Speaker 1: when they actually see what's going on. Now, what's going
33:25
Speaker 1: on here reminds me so much of where I grew
33:27
Speaker 1: up in Northern California, which is similar to Oregon. It's
33:31
Speaker 1: basically upper middle white class people cosplaying as children of
33:34
Speaker 1: the world, which is also just a whole other issue
33:36
Speaker 1: in itself. And it's even worse that they use these
33:39
Speaker 1: children in this way to make themselves look like these
33:41
Speaker 1: wonderful mother's who cared for their racially diverse family. Like,
33:45
Speaker 1: it's just, it's so fucking twisted. They met a lot
33:48
Speaker 1: of people at these festivals, many of whom didn't notice
33:51
Speaker 1: anything wrong with the kids, probably because they didn't know
33:53
Speaker 1: their ages. They seemed happy, they were dancing, they seemed
33:56
Speaker 1: carefree and loved, which just goes to show, like, you
33:59
Speaker 1: never really know what's going on. Alexandra, I believe, is
34:03
Speaker 1: one of the people that they met at these shows,
34:04
Speaker 1: and she obviously figured out what was going on very,
34:07
Speaker 1: very quickly. But that's also why the family didn't have
34:10
Speaker 1: any family. They didn't have any close friends. They just
34:12
Speaker 1: kind of shut everybody out. Another woman who met the
34:16
Speaker 1: family at a festival in Oregon became fast friends with
34:18
Speaker 1: Jen and even offered to help with the children's hair
34:21
Speaker 1: as she saw that it was matted and tangled. And
34:24
Speaker 1: she was black, so she was like, I can work
34:25
Speaker 1: on their hair. But Jen, who didn't know how to
34:27
Speaker 1: handle black people's hair, always found an excuse not to
34:30
Speaker 1: have this woman, who was black and raised by a
34:32
Speaker 1: white family, help her in any way. because she didn't
34:35
Speaker 1: actually want any help, because she didn't actually care about
34:37
Speaker 1: the kids, and because she didn't want anybody to see
34:39
Speaker 1: how they actually lived. And it's also like, can we
34:42
Speaker 1: just talk about like, why adopt these children? Like, what
34:46
Speaker 1: are you doing? Just don't adopt them. You clearly hate children.
34:50
Speaker 1: You clearly don't want them in your lives. Like, you
34:53
Speaker 1: won't let them celebrate birthdays. You get them in trouble
34:55
Speaker 1: for acting like kids. You're fucking starving them. You're fucking
34:58
Speaker 1: hitting them. Like, what are we doing? Anyway, so Jen
35:03
Speaker 1: continued to vlog her life on her YouTube channel and Instagram,
35:07
Speaker 1: talking about how great it was taking six kids on
35:09
Speaker 1: the road, teaching them science by being in nature, you know,
35:13
Speaker 1: just making herself sound like some sort of like hippie
35:16
Speaker 1: earth mama with children. She'd do anything to protect, right?
35:20
Speaker 1: Which couldn't be farther from the truth. Now, beyond festivals,
35:23
Speaker 1: the family also attended marches and protests. And specifically, I
35:26
Speaker 1: want to talk about the 2014 Portland protests after Ferguson
35:30
Speaker 1: police murdered Michael Brown, which is a whole other side
35:33
Speaker 1: of the rampant racism in our society. But we'll leave
35:35
Speaker 1: that for another podcaster to cover because it didn't happen
35:37
Speaker 1: in California. This blatant murder happened in August 2014. And
35:41
Speaker 1: November of that same year, the Hart family attended a, quote,
35:44
Speaker 1: peaceful protest in Portland. Devante was shot into fame in
35:51
Speaker 1: this moment. Because he was holding a sign that said,
35:53
Speaker 1: free hugs, pass it on. And a motorcycle cop who
35:57
Speaker 1: was there just for crowd control and later said to
36:00
Speaker 1: ensure people were allowed to protest, which like, whatever, saw
36:03
Speaker 1: Devante and asked him for a hug. Now, of course,
36:06
Speaker 1: there was a photographer, of course, right there in that moment.
36:10
Speaker 1: And he caught this moment with Devante in the officer's
36:12
Speaker 1: arms crying. And this shit went viral big time. It
36:18
Speaker 1: became the favorite photo of white progressives who thought it
36:20
Speaker 1: represented what could be in a perfect world, which is
36:23
Speaker 1: dumb as fuck, but whatever. At the time, people believed
36:26
Speaker 1: it was a photo of a young boy who was
36:28
Speaker 1: crying for the world, for the lost life, and a
36:31
Speaker 1: police officer holding him, giving him hope and safety. In reality,
36:36
Speaker 1: Devante was likely exhausted and scared and so tired of
36:40
Speaker 1: living a life of abuse and torture and feeling like
36:42
Speaker 1: there was nothing he could do about it, you know,
36:44
Speaker 1: that he was so starved, not just for food, but
36:48
Speaker 1: for love and for affection, as his mothers clearly gave
36:52
Speaker 1: the children none, that when he was in the arms
36:54
Speaker 1: of this officer, it all just came out in a
36:56
Speaker 1: flood of emotions that was completely misinterpreted by everybody and
37:00
Speaker 1: championed by white progressives for their stupid causes, whatever. So
37:05
Speaker 1: this photo takes on a really different, really sad meaning
37:07
Speaker 1: once you know more about this story. And I really
37:10
Speaker 1: hope the people who used it to forward solidarity with
37:12
Speaker 1: the police feel ashamed about that because they should. Anyway,
37:15
Speaker 1: so the family was suddenly launched into fame that they
37:18
Speaker 1: did not want, despite Jen really trying to sort of
37:21
Speaker 1: create this culture or this, you know, make her family
37:25
Speaker 1: seem a certain way. You know, they didn't want fame necessarily,
37:30
Speaker 1: because anytime people got close to them, they realized who
37:32
Speaker 1: they really were. The cop in the photo even reached
37:35
Speaker 1: out asking to visit with Devante so they could share
37:38
Speaker 1: in this moment together. But the family ignored his Facebook
37:41
Speaker 1: messages and also refused any interviews with the media. Which
37:44
Speaker 1: is so funny because like I said, she curated this
37:46
Speaker 1: online life, but she knows enough to know that this
37:49
Speaker 1: would blow her up. So her own bad deeds ultimately
37:52
Speaker 1: kept her from being able to experience all the attention
37:55
Speaker 1: that she wanted her entire life. And honestly, I love
37:58
Speaker 1: that for her. Now, I know I'm being like really
38:01
Speaker 1: feisty in this one, but honestly, I think part of
38:03
Speaker 1: why I didn't record for so long is because this
38:05
Speaker 1: story fucking pissed me off so much. And it's just
38:08
Speaker 1: really hard telling a story like this. where you know
38:11
Speaker 1: that nothing has changed and nothing probably will change, or
38:14
Speaker 1: if it does, it's not going to be for the better.
38:17
Speaker 1: So just, it really fires me up. So I apologize,
38:19
Speaker 1: but I'm also, I don't apologize. Anyway, so as a note,
38:24
Speaker 1: this all happened after Oregon officials had already looked into
38:28
Speaker 1: the family, which is again, probably a big part of
38:31
Speaker 1: why they were seemingly scared to show their faces in
38:33
Speaker 1: the news. Now, after this horrible story's conclusion, neighbors came
38:38
Speaker 1: out and said, that while the kids were very nice,
38:40
Speaker 1: they seemed to be hidden away by the women, and
38:43
Speaker 1: many neighbors described being concerned by their behavior, saying they
38:46
Speaker 1: didn't act, quote, like regular kids. They noted that when
38:50
Speaker 1: the family left the house, they would come out in
38:51
Speaker 1: a single file line, silent, and wait for instructions from
38:55
Speaker 1: Jen before moving a muscle. They also said the kids
38:58
Speaker 1: looked tiny and unhappy, but nothing stood out enough to
39:01
Speaker 1: call authorities, which wouldn't have made a difference anyway, clearly. Now,
39:05
Speaker 1: by 2017, the family moved from Oregon to Washington, looking
39:09
Speaker 1: to get away once again from the allegations of abuse
39:12
Speaker 1: and to get another fresh start. Once again, they lived
39:15
Speaker 1: in a small town, and this time the kids weren't
39:17
Speaker 1: even enrolled in public school. Because, like, why risk it, right? Like,
39:21
Speaker 1: they know what's going to happen. And they're just trying
39:23
Speaker 1: to prolong it as much as possible so that they
39:26
Speaker 1: don't have to move again. Or worse, which we are
39:28
Speaker 1: getting to worse, by the way. now marcus was at
39:31
Speaker 1: this time 18 years old but i think he felt
39:34
Speaker 1: trapped with this family as he'd been so well trained
39:36
Speaker 1: by jen to do as he was told at all
39:38
Speaker 1: times um and i also think he didn't want to
39:41
Speaker 1: abandon his siblings so he stayed even though he technically
39:44
Speaker 1: didn't have to And another thing that I wanted to
39:47
Speaker 1: note was that the emotional abuse was off the charts
39:49
Speaker 1: with this family, which I think I've obviously made apparent,
39:52
Speaker 1: but there is yet another example. Now, apparently Jen played
39:56
Speaker 1: favorites with the kids and would, it got to the point,
39:59
Speaker 1: this is insane to me, she would only speak to Devante,
40:02
Speaker 1: who then had to tell the other children what Jen
40:04
Speaker 1: wanted them to do. Now, this makes sense when we
40:07
Speaker 1: think about Marcus not being told happy birthday on his birthday,
40:10
Speaker 1: and also plays into a total emotional domination of the
40:13
Speaker 1: children by Jen, who is one evil fucking asshole, if
40:17
Speaker 1: I do say so. Now, in Washington, the children were
40:20
Speaker 1: out of the eye of school officials, but not of neighbors,
40:23
Speaker 1: who this time noticed problems and acted pretty quickly. By
40:27
Speaker 1: March of 2018, a neighbor called Washington Child Protective Services
40:31
Speaker 1: to report her concerns and told officials that about six
40:34
Speaker 1: months earlier, Hannah, who was then 16, had jumped out
40:38
Speaker 1: of her bedroom window at 1.30 a.m. and come to
40:41
Speaker 1: the neighbor's house, asking them to hide her in their home.
40:45
Speaker 1: She told them her mothers were racist and abusive, and
40:47
Speaker 1: she begged these neighbors for help. Pretty quickly, Jen and
40:51
Speaker 1: Sarah found Hannah and took her home, and the next
40:54
Speaker 1: day tried to smooth things over with the neighbors by
40:56
Speaker 1: telling them, and I'm not fucking kidding here, that Hannah
40:59
Speaker 1: acted out because she was a drug baby, and that
41:02
Speaker 1: her biological mother was bipolar. Neither of these claims are true,
41:06
Speaker 1: by the way, but they reek of fucking racism and entitlement.
41:11
Speaker 1: These same neighbors sort of let that go. They were like,
41:14
Speaker 1: this is weird, but we're just going to, we're going
41:16
Speaker 1: to step back. But then Devante at that time, 15
41:21
Speaker 1: started coming to their home multiple times a day, sneaking
41:24
Speaker 1: away from Jen somehow and asking them for food. He
41:28
Speaker 1: told them that the kids weren't given enough to eat
41:30
Speaker 1: and his size was clear evidence of that. He said
41:33
Speaker 1: his mother's withheld food from him and his siblings sometimes
41:36
Speaker 1: for days at a time. He said they did this
41:39
Speaker 1: as a punishment for literally anything, and begged the neighbors
41:42
Speaker 1: for items like tortillas and bread. This is so sad.
41:47
Speaker 1: He asked them to leave whole boxes of food near
41:49
Speaker 1: a fence where his parents wouldn't see it, and when
41:51
Speaker 1: the neighbors asked about calling the police, he begged them
41:53
Speaker 1: not to, saying he was afraid he and his siblings
41:55
Speaker 1: would be separated. And also, they've been looked into so
41:59
Speaker 1: many times, they know. It's not going to help, it's
42:01
Speaker 1: only going to hurt. That's so fucked up. This went
42:04
Speaker 1: on for a few weeks before the neighbors decided to
42:07
Speaker 1: call authorities anyway, as they couldn't turn a blind eye
42:09
Speaker 1: any longer. So this time, the women were caught being
42:12
Speaker 1: pieces of shit much more quickly, which we all would
42:15
Speaker 1: hope would be a good thing. But unfortunately, it was not.
42:21
Speaker 1: Washington authorities actually took these claims seriously and began an
42:24
Speaker 1: investigation immediately. They went to the home of the Hart
42:27
Speaker 1: family on March 23, 2018, but seemingly the family wasn't
42:31
Speaker 1: home despite both cars being in the driveway and, you know,
42:35
Speaker 1: Jen not having a job and the kids being homeschooled.
42:38
Speaker 1: This was on a Friday morning, March 23rd, like I said,
42:41
Speaker 1: and the caseworker left her card after trying the house
42:44
Speaker 1: for several minutes. So clearly they were home and just
42:47
Speaker 1: ignoring her. She then came back on Monday, March 26th,
42:51
Speaker 1: but again, nobody was home. And this time one of
42:53
Speaker 1: their cars, an older Brown SUV was in fact missing
42:56
Speaker 1: from the driveway. The neighbor saw the woman at the door.
43:01
Speaker 1: The neighbor saw the woman, sorry. The neighbor saw the
43:04
Speaker 1: woman and told her the entire family had left in
43:06
Speaker 1: a big hurry on Friday, just hours after she had
43:09
Speaker 1: stopped by. While this was happening, the family was driving
43:13
Speaker 1: down the coast from Washington through Oregon and down into California.
43:19
Speaker 1: The entire family was in the car, all eight people.
43:24
Speaker 1: Jen was driving with Sarah in the front seat and
43:26
Speaker 1: the kids in the two back rows. It's not super
43:28
Speaker 1: clear when what went on during that drive, but there
43:30
Speaker 1: was one surveillance camera that caught footage of the women
43:32
Speaker 1: buying a few things at a Safeway. And the weirdest
43:35
Speaker 1: part of that is that they used their phone number
43:38
Speaker 1: to get their like savings so they could save some money,
43:41
Speaker 1: which is very weird considering what happened next. What isn't weird,
43:47
Speaker 1: but is rather completely fucking horrible and evil is what
43:50
Speaker 1: they bought at Safeway. In addition to some drinks, they
43:54
Speaker 1: bought an excessive amount of Benadryl, which they then made
43:57
Speaker 1: all six of their kids take. They presumably made them
44:01
Speaker 1: take far more than the recommended amount. Now, this wasn't
44:04
Speaker 1: to kill them, as that would be almost impossible to
44:07
Speaker 1: do with Benadryl, but what the women wanted to do
44:10
Speaker 1: was make all of the kids fall asleep or really
44:12
Speaker 1: pass out from the drugs. I'd like to think this
44:15
Speaker 1: was an act of mercy to the children, but I
44:17
Speaker 1: can't give these horrible women that much credit, so I
44:20
Speaker 1: really think it was more so none of them would
44:21
Speaker 1: fight back or try to run when the women then
44:24
Speaker 1: carried out their disgusting plan. After giving these drugs to
44:28
Speaker 1: their children, the women continued driving down the one freeway,
44:32
Speaker 1: which is along the coastline of California, deeper and deeper
44:36
Speaker 1: into the state. Now around this time, Sarah's co-workers began
44:42
Speaker 1: to get worried about her and actually called authorities looking
44:45
Speaker 1: for her because she had called in Friday, I think
44:49
Speaker 1: it was Friday night, very late and said she wouldn't
44:51
Speaker 1: be coming into work the next day because she was sick.
44:54
Speaker 1: And from there, she basically just disappeared. So authorities in Oregon, sorry,
45:00
Speaker 1: in Washington, are going to the family home, looking for her,
45:04
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's going on, which really is
45:08
Speaker 1: sad because because fuck these women. But, you know, they
45:11
Speaker 1: had people fooled and they had people worried about them
45:14
Speaker 1: and making sure that nothing terrible happened. And meanwhile, they're running,
45:18
Speaker 1: you know, and they're driving down the one in California
45:23
Speaker 1: planning to do something horrible to themselves and their children. Now,
45:26
Speaker 1: just before she had texted her coworkers, Sarah began Googling
45:30
Speaker 1: some things, which later came out and indicated that this
45:34
Speaker 1: was a planned thing, even if only planned, you know,
45:37
Speaker 1: a day or so in advance. Some of her Google
45:41
Speaker 1: searches were, let me read them out here. How long
45:45
Speaker 1: does it take to die from hypothermia while drowning in
45:49
Speaker 1: a car? Is death by drowning relatively painless? Can 500
45:54
Speaker 1: milligrams of Benadryl kill a 120 pound woman? And in
45:59
Speaker 1: the one that makes me the most angry is apparently
46:04
Speaker 1: the family had some dogs. Now, I want to tell
46:06
Speaker 1: you that nobody, I think, ever figured out where these
46:08
Speaker 1: dogs went. But one of her Google searches was no
46:11
Speaker 1: kill shelters for dogs because she actually cared enough about
46:14
Speaker 1: her dogs that she didn't want them to, you know,
46:17
Speaker 1: to be killed, to have to have to meet with
46:19
Speaker 1: an unfavorable death. So she's fucking sitting there trying to
46:23
Speaker 1: find a place to take her dogs while they're actively
46:26
Speaker 1: planning to drug and murder their children. I'm just going
46:28
Speaker 1: to jump the shark on that. They're going to murder
46:30
Speaker 1: the kids. So as I said, eight people died. Eight
46:34
Speaker 1: people were in the car. So this is what this
46:37
Speaker 1: asshole is fucking Googling. And meanwhile, texting her coworkers saying
46:41
Speaker 1: that she's sick. And to me, it's like, if you're
46:43
Speaker 1: fucking planning to do this, why even bother telling anyone anything?
46:47
Speaker 1: But why bother using your Safeway card? Like, obviously it's
46:49
Speaker 1: a really fucked up situation. So anyway, the women are,
46:55
Speaker 1: you know, driving down the one in California. It's March
46:59
Speaker 1: 26th and the kids all fall asleep from what we
47:03
Speaker 1: can tell. And the women with Jen behind the wheel
47:08
Speaker 1: drive off of a cliff into the ocean in their SUV.
47:15
Speaker 1: Every single person died when they landed. And, um, It
47:20
Speaker 1: was really fucking devastating. Now at first police thought it
47:23
Speaker 1: was an accident. They thought it was like a really
47:25
Speaker 1: terrible accident. They didn't know how many people were in
47:28
Speaker 1: the car. They didn't know anything about it. So they're like,
47:30
Speaker 1: oh my God, horrific accident. And for weeks in the news,
47:33
Speaker 1: and you can, you can Google this and see the
47:35
Speaker 1: different sort of tones when talking about these women in
47:39
Speaker 1: the articles from that time, it starts out with like
47:42
Speaker 1: horrific accident. Then it's like, wait a minute, was this
47:46
Speaker 1: an accident? Pretty immediately, police, though, were starting to realize
47:50
Speaker 1: that it probably wasn't an accident. And one of the
47:53
Speaker 1: first things that they noticed was there were no skid marks.
47:57
Speaker 1: So they didn't try to slow down. Most people, when
48:00
Speaker 1: they're going off a cliff, if they don't want to,
48:02
Speaker 1: they're trying to slow down, right? They're trying to not
48:06
Speaker 1: go over the cliff. So that was kind of the
48:08
Speaker 1: first indication for police. And obviously, as they began digging more,
48:12
Speaker 1: they began to understand who these women were. And what
48:16
Speaker 1: they were all about. And the picture unfolded pretty quickly.
48:19
Speaker 1: And pretty horrifically. Now when the car was found. It
48:23
Speaker 1: was found with both Sarah and Jen. Inside. And then
48:28
Speaker 1: there was also. Marcus. Jeremiah and Abigail. They were not.
48:35
Speaker 1: I believe in the car. But they were nearby. So
48:40
Speaker 1: there we have. What is that? 1, 2, 3, 4,
48:42
Speaker 1: 5 cars. Um, but Devante, Hannah and Sierra were nowhere
48:50
Speaker 1: to be found. Now, I think pretty, pretty shortly after
48:54
Speaker 1: this happened, Hannah's body was found. They did find, this
48:58
Speaker 1: is horrific. I'm sorry. They did find a foot a
49:00
Speaker 1: few months later, I believe, um, that they thought might've
49:03
Speaker 1: belonged to Sierra, but they were never able, able to conclusively,
49:06
Speaker 1: you know, determine if it was hers and Devante, the
49:09
Speaker 1: boy in the photo, the boy who, you know, brought
49:12
Speaker 1: this family fame they didn't want. because he was so
49:15
Speaker 1: sad and so scared and just needed love, his body
49:18
Speaker 1: has never been fed. So that's pretty fucked. Anyway, so
49:25
Speaker 1: that's kind of the story of the Hart family murders.
49:30
Speaker 1: You know, I could continue to talk about all the
49:32
Speaker 1: failures that occurred leading up to these moments, but I
49:35
Speaker 1: think what's most important is sort of understanding why they
49:40
Speaker 1: happened and also understanding how these women were framed in
49:44
Speaker 1: the news immediately after the accident. And even after it
49:48
Speaker 1: was determined that it was an intentional, um, they were
49:51
Speaker 1: given a lot more grace than a lot of people
49:54
Speaker 1: would have been given. And I definitely think it's because
49:57
Speaker 1: they're white women. Um, they were, they were allowed to
50:00
Speaker 1: sort of be victims, even though they were perpetrators of
50:04
Speaker 1: a crime, which I know sounds weird, but, um, I
50:07
Speaker 1: think anybody who pays attention to the news kind of
50:09
Speaker 1: knows what I'm talking about. And yeah, all of these
50:12
Speaker 1: children died. These children whose families wanted them, whose mothers
50:16
Speaker 1: wanted them, whose aunts wanted them. They were just given
50:21
Speaker 1: away to white people, abused, starved, tormented, and murdered. And
50:26
Speaker 1: that's really fucked up. So that's the story. Shit's dark.
50:31
Speaker 1: Told you guys, this is what made it so hard
50:33
Speaker 1: for me to record on top of being interrupted while
50:35
Speaker 1: recording a hundred times. I forgot about that, but was
50:38
Speaker 1: reminded today. But mostly it's just how horrific this story is.
50:42
Speaker 1: It really fucked with me. And I hope it doesn't
50:45
Speaker 1: fuck with y'all too much because I'd like you to
50:46
Speaker 1: come back and listen to more soon. So again, thanks
50:49
Speaker 1: everybody for tuning in. Please like, rate, review, share with
50:52
Speaker 1: your friends and family. Tell everybody you know. And I'll
50:55
Speaker 1: be back when I can with another story of horrific
50:58
Speaker 1: true crime out of California. Until then, stay safe.